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View Full Version : Sony develops 25-gigabite paper DVD


eyelikeart
Apr 19, 2004, 02:54 PM
This is too damned cool.:D

story here (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040419/od_afp/japan_it_sony_toppan_040419154919)

Kid Red
Apr 19, 2004, 03:16 PM
Yea, cool until you spill your drink on it and your 2 year old plays with it.

MacRAND
Apr 19, 2004, 03:38 PM
Yea, cool until you spill your drink on it and your 2 year old plays with it.So, a DVD coaster (mis-burn) will finally be useful - absorbing liquid from a glass because of the paper? :Dhttp://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20040419/capt.sge.iku63.190404154836.photo00.default-384x296.jpg
Actually, this is really cool technology developed by SONY using new Blu-ray HD DVD discs that are 51% paper. While SONY's paper discs are limited to 25GB storage, regular plastic material discs are capable of 50GB.SONY sells movies (software) on DVD discs.
SONY may not want movie software to last long on a DVD (Blu-ray) disc.
SONY makes "throw away" less-than-durable Paper DVD Br.
SONY invents "disposable movie" discs capable of High-Definition video.
SONY continues old policy of planned obsolescence.Read the article, it tells a little about SONY's history form 1950, and the paper SONI tape, possibly from which the name SONY was derived - easier to pronounce and remember than "Tokyo Tsushin Kogyo" for a company name.
Hmmmm?
I wonder if the "paper" disc is "printable" on an Epson R200 InkJet CD/DVD direct label capable printer?

johnnyjibbs
Apr 19, 2004, 03:53 PM
Based on blueray. And you can destroy it by taking to it with the scissors!

Ajmbc
Apr 19, 2004, 04:33 PM
Maybe this will mean smaller drives and smaller discs- maybe printing mass quantities of paper discs on printers.

aj

Macmaniac
Apr 19, 2004, 05:10 PM
And it costs how much and comes out when?

stoid
Apr 19, 2004, 05:12 PM
Well, if AOL discs arrived in my mailbox made of paper it'd make it a lot easier to wipe my ass with them! :p :D :D ;)

Vector
Apr 23, 2004, 01:14 PM
It is an interesting concept, but one of the main reasons for using optical media is because it is so durable. It is made of 51% paper, and can be cut with scissors, so one assumes that it cannot stand up well to the regular wear and tear that current optical media has to.

I just hope that sony's blu-ray technology beats out the format microsoft is pushing.

MacRAND
Apr 23, 2004, 01:31 PM
Well, if AOL discs arrived in my mailbox made of paper it'd make it a lot easier to wipe my ass with them! :p :D :D ;)WATCH OUT FOR THE HOLE! :p

MacRAND
Apr 23, 2004, 01:34 PM
It is an interesting concept, but one of the main reasons for using optical media is because it is so durable. It is made of 51% paper, and can be cut with scissors, so one assumes that it cannot stand up well to the regular wear and tear that current optical media has to.

I just hope that sony's blu-ray technology beats out the format microsoft is pushing.If Microsoft fails to involve drive & disc manufacturers and computer companies like Blu-ray has, then it should fall on its face...unless the technology is clearly superior.
Do you have a URL on MS tech?

musicpyrite
Apr 23, 2004, 01:50 PM
Well, if AOL discs arrived in my mailbox made of paper it'd make it a lot easier to wipe my ass with them! :p :D :D ;)

Nice. :cool:

Vector
Apr 23, 2004, 01:56 PM
The format battle is for the next generation DVD. Sony has developed blu-ray and microsoft has developed hd-dvd. Both formats are meant to provide higher quality picture resolution for hd tvs by using blue lasers to read the pits on the media (they can be smaller thus making the dvd larger capacity with blue lasers). The DVD forum endorsed microsofts, but that doesn't mean its better or that it is the winnner. here are a few sites on the issue.

http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2004/04/15&pages=A1&seq=5

http://www.blu-ray.com/

http://www.dvdscan.com/blueray2.htm

http://www.dvdtown.com/hddvd/

krimson
Apr 23, 2004, 02:29 PM
Well, if AOL discs arrived in my mailbox made of paper it'd make it a lot easier to wipe my ass with them! :p :D :D ;)

WATCH OUT FOR THE HOLE! :p


Forget the hole, watch out for the papercuts.. :eek:

MacRAND
Apr 23, 2004, 03:47 PM
Forget the hole, watch out for the papercuts.. :eek:Puts new meaning into the expression "Bite me..." :eek: doesn't it? :D

SONY does have a very long history of using paper {cellulose} as a recording medium. In about 1950 before the company was even known as SONY, they used paper as a partial material to manufacture very cheap magnetic tape. Unfortunately, SONY is infamous over building planned obsolesence into their products to the intentional detriment of consumers. Oddly, this idea may work well since paper is only half the material and instead of the disc being burned using a hot laser, the plan is to use a stream of electrons.

Two hydrogen atoms meet.
One says "I've lost my electron."
The other says "Are you sure?"
The first replies "Yes, I'm positive."
To which the other curiously exclaims “Watt?!?”

Ok, but it was at least on topic! How about this one?
http://images.viewimages.com/wm/AR008822.JPG
Mahatma Gandhi, as you know, walked barefoot most of the time,
which produced an impressive set of calluses on his feet.
He also ate very little, which made him rather frail and
with his odd diet, he suffered from bad breath. This made him...
(Oh, man, this is so bad, it's good)... a
super calloused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.

So, do you think Mary Poppins would be more interested in a 12" or 15"
PowerBook, considering how mobile she needs to be. (See, I tied it in!)http://www.reelclassics.com/Musicals/MaryPoppins/images7/juliea_dvd_marypop_jump.jpg

Keeping your Mac well organized in Panther OS X is a "snap". 9.9mb QT file (http://www.reelclassics.com/Audio_Video/Videos3f/marypop_spoonful.mov)

wdlove
Apr 23, 2004, 05:24 PM
I also wonder about the longevity of paper DVD. Have wondered if the idea of its use is for planned destruction after so many uses. A disposable DVD! :eek:

applemacdude
Apr 23, 2004, 05:57 PM
Well, if AOL discs arrived in my mailbox made of paper it'd make it a lot easier to wipe my ass with them! :p :D :D ;)


HAha you just won onw of my awards....Thats so damn funny award

MacRAND
Apr 23, 2004, 06:17 PM
I also wonder about the longevity of paper DVD.
Have wondered if the idea of its use is for planned destruction after so many uses. A disposable DVD! :eek:Yes, that's what SONY stands for as a company - "Stops working, buy another, sucker"

Has anyone noticed that we can now purchase 8x DVD-R blank media from the Apple Store, $19.95 for 5-pack
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71406/wo/9F7Ut8f1Ol923MPdKF80UvpeAt3/3.5.0.5.14.0.5.1.1?62,40
http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/534/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/dvdr_8x_125.jpg

Now, Apple, when can we have new G5 PowerMacs with 8x DVD SuperDrives inside? Huh?

question fear
Apr 23, 2004, 11:12 PM
uhhhhh
can't you just snap a dvd in half if you dont want anyone else to read it?
it seems cool, but is "cut with scissors" really a big deal? personally i think the recycling aspect (both of the disks and utilizing recycled paper) is cool.

MrMacMan
Apr 23, 2004, 11:27 PM
Hey they are also making time release DVD's.


After a certain time the DVD has acid on it and after like 5 days the DVD info is GONE!

:confused:


Also another brilliant idea from the makers of 'massive amount of storage in a non-durible surface'


Paper = Cool!
Dvd = Cool!

Paper DVD = Cool!
Accidentally damaging the paper -- OH NO!

MacRAND
Apr 23, 2004, 11:30 PM
uhhhhh
can't you just snap a dvd in half if you dont want anyone else to read it?
it seems cool, but is "cut with scissors" really a big deal? personally i think the recycling aspect (both of the disks and utilizing recycled paper) is cool.Actually, DVD discs can be rather difficult to snap in half, the good ones anyway.
Personally, I like to microwave them for 2 seconds and that kills 'em dead.

The scissors thing is not exactly what most office people will do to destroy paper discs, close but not quite :p
http://www.thomasregister.com/images/39528450/ds2250.JPG
Some shredders actually have a special slot now for disposing of CD & DVD discs.

Vector
Apr 23, 2004, 11:32 PM
they have been trying the timed dvd's for a little while already. they are being used for movie rentals so people can just get the special dvd and never have to return anything. the dvd is wrapped in plastic, and when it is opened and exposed to the air, a chemical reaction starts that renders the dvd unreadable after a few days. from what i have heard it isn't going to do much because these disposable dvd rentals cost twice as much as regular rentals.

stoid
Apr 24, 2004, 01:46 AM
Now, Apple, when can we have new G5 PowerMacs with 8x DVD SuperDrives inside? Huh?

You do realize that the new eMacs sport 8x SuperDrives, right? Good. And the new laptop SuperDrives have also moved from 2x to 4x, right? Good. Something tells me that the next revision of PowerMacs are going to have 8x (maybe 16x at the rate Apple is going).

How compatible are these discs with present standards? It doesn't seem like a flimsy paper disc would work the best with a slot-loading drive enclosure, but could a standard laser based drive that reads the present disc types handle these as well? Would it even be possible to build a drive that supports both these and traditional discs?

MacRAND
Apr 24, 2004, 05:19 AM
You do realize that the new
eMacs sport 8x SuperDrives, right? Good. And the new
laptop SuperDrives have also moved from 2x to 4x, right? Good. Something tells me that the next revision of
PowerMacs are going to have 8x (maybe 16x at the rate Apple is going).

How compatible are these discs with present standards?
NOT AT ALL, THEY REQUIRE SPECIAL BLU-RAY DRIVE
It doesn't seem like a flimsy paper disc would work the best with a slot-loading drive enclosure, but
DOUBT THAT SONY'S 51% PAPER ARE FLIMSY; SHOULD WORK IN SLOT LOAD
could a standard laser based drive that reads the present disc types handle these as well?
NO, NOT AT ALL LIKELY - LASER IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FOR SONY 25GB DISCS
PIONEER 50GB PLASTIC DISCS MAY USE STREAMING ELECTRON RAY, NOT (BLUE) LASER
Would it even be possible to build a drive that supports both these and traditional discs?
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLEOne of the current concerns is not a "SuperDrive" dual compatibility with Blu-ray & DVD, but whether CD Read/Write will continue. Again, 3-way Combo is possible, we just have no clue yet on probability.
Also, no clue yet on whether DVD capability will include Dual-Layer (DL).

Lots of possibilities, few answers at this point. I'm personally pleased that two rational companies are deeply involved in Blu-ray development - Pioneer electronics and HP computers. They have a vested interest over a reasonable level of backwards compatibility, so I'm sure CD compatibility will be strongly considered.

While Blu-ray could be a component of a future SuperDrive, I'd expect the drive manufacturers to come out with Desktop models (already being shown, and then 3.5" computer versions for towers like the G5 PowerMac = first External FireWire drives, later internal.

SONY and Philips are the wild cards on internal drives and could push Pioneer and others into manufacturing internal computer drives before Pioneer would choose to.
Don't you just love what competition for our money does for us?

Besides SONY's paper discs, Verbatim, TDK and Pioneer's partner Taiyo Yuden (maker of PioData brand) are likely to be leaders in providing Blu-ray 50GB discs
________________________________
8x DVD-R discs are now becoming widely available--

Apple sells a 5-pack for $19.95, or $3.99 each (as anticipated)

PioData (Taiyo Yuden) sells 8x discs for $3.99 each
• 10 for $38.90 or $3.89 each
•500 for $1,695 or $3.39 each

Ritek and others are following suit

Later this year, when 16x replaces 8x at the top of the food chain,
8x DVD-R prices should drop from $20 to $15 per 5-pack ($3 each)
16x DVD-R will then come in at $20 per 5-pack ($4 each) and
4x DVD-R will remain at $9.99 per 5-pack ($2 each) with
2x DVD-R for under $1 each.
Dual Layer (DL) discs initialy burning at only 4x, maybe 8x, are expected to initially sell for $35 each, the over a 6 to 9 month period
rapidly dropping to $25 each, $15 each, and then holding at $8 each.

Dual Sided (DS) DVD discs burning at 8x may compete with DL because they have double the burning speed @ 8x and later 16x for $6-7 per disc with a true 4.7GB X 2 capacity = 9.4 GB compared to DL max of 8.4 GB
DS will have limited commercial popularity for the practical reason that since both sides are burned, there is NO SIDE for a label = defeating extensive commercial use.

LightScribe (LS), pushed by HP, is an excellent direct burning laser label on the non-burn side and is supposed to add only a few pennies per disc (we will see ;)). A LS treated surface may be combined with a "printable" white surface for InkJet, or discs may be produced permitting only LS burning or only InkJet printing, or none (requiring paper labels).

Our choices for great disc product are going to do nothing less than get progressively better and cheaper. God bless competition.

question fear
Apr 24, 2004, 09:08 AM
they have been trying the timed dvd's for a little while already. they are being used for movie rentals so people can just get the special dvd and never have to return anything. the dvd is wrapped in plastic, and when it is opened and exposed to the air, a chemical reaction starts that renders the dvd unreadable after a few days. from what i have heard it isn't going to do much because these disposable dvd rentals cost twice as much as regular rentals.
they are also apparently really tough to dispose of...the compromise on the sheer amount of waste they would generate was special envelopes where you could mail it all expenses paid to a recycling center. that so far has failed. its also that people didn't respond well to the price, as vector said, as welll as the time limit. it was a bad idea from the consumer standpoint, too many factors to consider when blockbuster is that much easier and cheaper.

coastercd
May 27, 2005, 10:51 PM
try using an actual coastercd!!! to see what i mean go to www.coastercd.com - their really cool..... :)

applemacdude
May 28, 2005, 12:08 AM
Well, if AOL discs arrived in my mailbox made of paper it'd make it a lot easier to wipe my ass with them! :p :D :D ;)


****ign hilarious

thanks for the laugh

tdhurst
May 28, 2005, 12:38 AM
I am so happy for the paper farmers!!!!

They are the real heroes tonight!

Church
May 28, 2005, 01:01 AM
uhhhhh
can't you just snap a dvd in half if you dont want anyone else to read it?
it seems cool, but is "cut with scissors" really a big deal? personally i think the recycling aspect (both of the disks and utilizing recycled paper) is cool.

I snapped a disc in half one time, and I could have gotten my eye poked out. There were plastic shards flying everywhere, and the film inside went everywhere like confetti. It wasn't the best idea I've ever had, but it was funny. :D

ravenvii
May 28, 2005, 01:19 AM
****ign hilarious

thanks for the laugh

HAha you just won onw of my awards....Thats so damn funny award

Did you realize you said this a year ago in this very thread? Check the dates.

LOL!

homerjward
May 28, 2005, 01:24 AM
I snapped a disc in half one time, and I could have gotten my eye poked out. There were plastic shards flying everywhere, and the film inside went everywhere like confetti. It wasn't the best idea I've ever had, but it was funny. :D
its ****ing fun though! a couple weeks ago i went to turn in this assignment to my teacher on (well, cd not dvd) and he said it was too late and i was really mad and i snapped the cd and he was like "you can do that?" yeah, the shards or w/e are really an issue :D

GFLPraxis
May 28, 2005, 03:13 AM
The format battle is for the next generation DVD. Sony has developed blu-ray and microsoft has developed hd-dvd. Both formats are meant to provide higher quality picture resolution for hd tvs by using blue lasers to read the pits on the media (they can be smaller thus making the dvd larger capacity with blue lasers). The DVD forum endorsed microsofts, but that doesn't mean its better or that it is the winnner. here are a few sites on the issue.

http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2004/04/15&pages=A1&seq=5

http://www.blu-ray.com/

http://www.dvdscan.com/blueray2.htm

http://www.dvdtown.com/hddvd/

Microsoft? Developed HD-DVD? :rolleyes:

I think you're getting Toshiba and Microsoft mixed up.

The DVD Forum has accepted TOSHIBA'S HD-DVD format.
IMO I think I perfer HD-DVD. Blu-ray obviously has a size advantage, but HD-DVD has several huge advantages of its own. It's far cheaper to make as it can be made at current production facilities, for one. So the early systems won't cost a fortune, at least not as much as Blu-ray. More importantly, Blu-ray has a MUCH smaller protective layer and is therefore far easier to scratch, while HD-DVD retains the same system as normal DVD's just with a blue laser.

Additionally, due to the big differences its harder to make a backwards compatible Blu-ray drive.

Not that Blu-ray is bad. It's 50 GB vs 30 GB for dual layer disks.

GFLPraxis
May 28, 2005, 03:20 AM
I just hope that sony's blu-ray technology beats out the format microsoft is pushing.

Huh? Microsoft doesn't HAVE a next generation format. Where did you hear this? :confused:

Blu-ray = Sony & Co.
HD-DVD = Toshiba & Co.

Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD will support Microsoft's WMV codec, MPEG4, and Apple's H.264, for codecs.

Microsoft isn't backing ANY next gen formats that I am aware of.