Sarcasm

[ViciousShadow21]

hey folks. i have raised this question to the moderator's and they said i should start a thread about it.

i know that we are supposed to be careful about sarcasm. we all use it anyways and sometimes it gets misinterpreted. what do you all think of having a uniform way of showing that we are being sarcastic. for example, typing in blue italics could be a way to show it (like this). it doesnt have to be this. more ideas would be good.

i think it could go a long way in stopping some of the fights that happen on the site. so many times i have read something like "calm down, i was just being sarcastic!!"

let me and the moderator's know what you think. and if anyone thinks they have a better idea other than blue italics post it here as well.

[r.j.s]

I always try to use /sarcasm at the end of a sarcastic remark ... but sometimes it still gets interpreted the wrong way.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

That would really make sarcasm less effective.

[JNB]

:rolleyes:

No, I'm not being sarcastic. But it's easier to employ (and more obvious) than blue type. The sarcasm-impaired wouldn't get blue, red, italic, or boldface fonts, anyway.

Maybe Comic Sans…

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Comic Sans

ewwww

[iJohnHenry]

let me and the moderator's know what you think. and if anyone thinks they have a better idea other than blue italics post it here as well.

Blue, sans serf, I'm in. :p

[ViciousShadow21]

That would really make sarcasm less effective.

i dont know, i think it would be more effective. sarcasm only works if the person you are doing it to knows it.

unless that statement was sarcastic.:p

[epyfa]

I think the point of sarcasm is that you have to think twice to know if the person's sarcastic or not and sometimes you can't even be sure. That's the way sarcasm works.

[gkarris]

Sarcasm - like none of that goes on around here... :eek:

:D

^ (that's what I use...)

[dukebound85]

theres no way to implement this on a forum and have 100% compliance

sorry this just seems like a wasted effort

[ViciousShadow21]

I think the point of sarcasm is that you have to think twice to know if the person's sarcastic or not and sometimes you can't even be sure. That's the way sarcasm works.

yea but that can really only apply to face to face conversations. you have to admit that it is tough online and that people take it the wrong way and the result can be a fight. this is what we want to avoid. having a way to mark it may take away from the "essence" of sarcasm a little bit, but hopefully it will stop some of the fights started on this forum.

theres no way to implement this on a forum and have 100% compliance

sorry this just seems like a wasted effort

it may be, but if we could get some of the members to catch on it will spread pretty fast. we will definitely need the backing of the moderators and possibly something in the rules.

also if there is a way to put it in the toolbar the same way we can select the B, I, and U it would be easier to implement.

[dukebound85]

well hate to be a party pooper but i wont do it

if people cant sense when im being sarcastic then their loss as i dont really care in the end...its just a post and the people who reply are strangers to me so i dont care, i just dont

[Sun Baked]

You can add huge neon lights to the blue text and 20 ft tall smilies, and some members are going to get their nuts strangled in their panties over another member's sarcastic remarks.

[gkarris]

You can add huge neon lights to the blue text and 20 ft tall smilies, and some members are going to get their nuts strangled in their panties over another member's sarcastic remarks.

Gee, that's nice...

:D

[Randman]

If people weren't so stupid, you wouldn't need to point out sarcasm.

[sushi]

I always try to use /sarcasm at the end of a sarcastic remark ... but sometimes it still gets interpreted the wrong way.
When I am being really sarcastic, I use the same /sarcasm at the end.

Usually, I use the ;) or ;) :p :D

Blue, sans serf, I'm in. :p
If that were the rules, then I would probably never be sarcastic. :eek:

well hate to be a party pooper but i wont do it

if people cant sense when im being sarcastic then their loss as i dont really care in the end...its just a post and the people who reply are strangers to me so i dont care, i just dont
Then why do you even post on, let alone read, MR?

Seems to me, if this is your attitude, your time might be spent better doing something else that is more productive to you. Just an idea.

[plinden]

No. If I'm being sarcastic online and someone doesn't get it, I like to have the opportunity to snicker at their being a dumbass. If no one gets it, then it just proves I'm smarter than everyone else.

[ViciousShadow21]

wow, i didnt know people are this passionate about sarcasm. i just thought it would help avoid some of the misunderstandings that happen.

but remember, you wouldnt HAVE to use it but, i think it would still just be nice to have the option.

[localoid]

I thought the color blue was only used to identify a double entendre?

[Peace]

This is a dumb discussion.:rolleyes:

mouse over the little "sarcastic" icon. If people don't understand that. Which they normally don't adding blue text will just make it more confusing.

[Gelfin]

This is a brilliant idea. Why didn't anyone think of it sooner?

:D

[Abstract]

Hi. I'm anti-sarcasm, and I think this is a fabulous idea. Fab. Ulous.

[localoid]

The pseudo-XML element for sarcasm, example: <sarcasm>Yeah, that's really going to work.</sarcasm>, is actually defined (http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#parsing-main-inbody) in W3.org's HTML 5 spec...

[skunk]

Blue, sans serf, I'm in. :pA real pantomime villein.

[MacRy]

No. If I'm being sarcastic online and someone doesn't get it, I like to have the opportunity to snicker at their being a dumbass. If no one gets it, then it just proves I'm smarter than everyone else.

This idea wouldn't work I'm afraid because then how would people who post something wrong or offensive then be able to claim a few posts later that it was sarcasm or irony ;)

[tobefirst]

I've seen this used on another board I'm a part of, particularly blue text, and it works pretty well. At first, I thought it was stupid, but I've come to appreciate its usefulness. That forum isn't nearly as well moderated nor as civil as this one, so the suggestion of blue text helps. With the way this forum is going, I think it could help here as well.

[Osarkon]

Sounds like an interesting idea in theory, but you know it would just create a slew of threads from newbies asking 'why are some people typing in blue??!!?!!??!?!!?!'

[miles01110]

If people weren't so stupid, you wouldn't need to point out sarcasm.

Exactly.

This is a brilliant idea. Why didn't anyone think of it sooner?


lol.

[Eric5h5]

This idea will never work, because it discriminates against those who suffer total colorblindness, and those who are using grayscale monitors.

Now, was this post sarcastic, or not? You decide!

--Eric

[Sun Baked]

Great, now the PRSI section is really going to look like it is populated by a bunch of Fruit Loops.

[TuffLuffJimmy]

sarcasm
irony
black humor
inflammatory remark
being really serious
you had a tummy ache while posting

[Doctor Q]

I thought of this thread when I saw this post. I guess it's not italics so it's not sarcastic.

[themoonisdown09]

In case you don't know what sarcasm is... :D


Sarcasm is a form of irony that is bitter or cutting, being intended to taunt its target. It is first recorded in English in The Shepheardes Calender in 1579:

Tom piper) An Ironicall [Sarcasmus], spoken in derision of these rude wits, whych make more account of a ryming rybaud, then of skill grounded vpon learning and iudgment.
—Edmund Spenser

It comes from the ancient Greek σαρκάζω (sarkazo) meaning 'to tear flesh' but the ancient Greek word for the rhetorical concept of taunting was instead χλευασμός (chleyasmόs). Sarcasm appears several times in the Old Testament, for example:

Lo, you see the man is mad; why then have you brought him to me? Do I lack madmen, that you have brought this fellow to play the madman in my presence?
—Achish, king of Gath, I Sam 21:10-15

Oscar Wilde, the great Irish playwright, poet and author of numerous short stories and one novel, also known for his biting wit, declared that
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Hostile, critical comments may be expressed in an ironic way such as saying "don't work too hard" to a lazy worker. The use of irony introduces an element of humour which may make the criticism seem more polite and less aggressive but understanding the subtlety of this usage requires second-order interpretation of the speaker's intentions. This sophisticated understanding is lacking in people with brain damage, dementia and autism, and this perception has been located by MRI in the right parahippocampal gyrus.

In certain Ethiopic languages, sarcasm is indicated with a sarcasm mark, a character that looks like a backwards question mark at the end of a sentence, similar to Alcanter de Brahm's proposed irony mark (؟). Subtitles, such as in Teletext, sometimes use an exclamation mark in brackets to mark sarcasm: (!).

[ViciousShadow21]

like i said before you dont have to use it. i thought it would just be nice to have the option. but if some ppl use it and some dont then its not really worth it i suppose.

it seems that you guys are opposed to it. i guess it's too hard for ppl to change. this site has gotten along fine with out it for all these years. it will continue to do so with or with out my suggestion. thanks for the input.

[IJ Reilly]

The best way to deal with the issue of sarcasm in a forum is to be very careful when using it. We know that sarcasm doesn't come off very well in this format. The way not to deal with it is accusing the target of the sarcasm of not having a sense of humor. Very likely the target wasn't meant to see any humor in it in the first place.

[dukebound85]

Then why do you even post on, let alone read, MR?

Seems to me, if this is your attitude, your time might be spent better doing something else that is more productive to you. Just an idea.

because this forum is a wealth of knowledge maybe?

i dont need to explain to to you why i choose to participate on this forum. if people cant get when im sarcastic at times, i dont care and i certainly wont go out of my way to make my sarcasm obvious

thankfully, most posts i make and reply too outside of prsi dont have too much sarcasm

[sushi]

because this forum is a wealth of knowledge maybe?
That it is. No disagreement there.

i dont need to explain to to you why i choose to participate on this forum.
Never said that you did.

I'm just wondering why you don't care what other people think or perceive about your posts. I figure that the purpose of posting here was communicating ideas with each other. The clearer that we can do that, sarcastic or not, the better I would think.

[allmIne]

I was gonna write a sarcastic response, but figured I needed to get my point across.

With respect, this idea not good. Sarcastic comments, as mentioned above, are great because they can be funny, unexpected, slightly ambiguous, whatever. Italicising and making them blue is a bit... silly.

It's not my fault some board members aren't as capable as others in this regard.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but I don't think anything can be done about it. And I don't think anything should be done about it.

Edit: Honourable mentions to Eric5h5 for pointing out what I also tried to say, and to TuffLoveJimmy for making me laugh!

[miles01110]

but if some ppl use it and some dont then its not really worth it i suppose.


I think you hit on the main problem here. Macrumors is, to my knowledge, the largest forum community in the niche. There are 300k+ registered users. Trying to standardize a format for "sarcasm" will never get to the point where if someone makes a pointed remark and forgets to format it, people will jump all over them. Most of the time the irony is realized.

[IJ Reilly]

With respect, this idea not good. Sarcastic comments, as mentioned above, are great because they can be funny, unexpected, slightly ambiguous, whatever. Italicising and making them blue is a bit... silly.

Yes the proposed "solution" is a bit silly, but where your statement fails is in an understanding of the most common use of sarcasm, which is for mockery. Mockery, like other low forms of discourse, is not a legitimate form of discussion. Sarcastic comments are nearly always ad hominem attacks, unless they are offered in a friendly, joking manner -- which is rare.

It's not my fault some board members aren't as capable as others in this regard.

Do you seriously believe this?

[Schtumple]

I think it should be more subtle than changing the colour, how about:

!!!SARCASM INCOMING, DO NOT TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY!!!

This thread serves a purpose and I see that.

!!!SARCASM OVER, EVERYTHING AFTER THIS IS SERIOUS!!!

http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-03-24/1237922511255.jpg

Better?

[ziggyonice]

:rolleyes:

mouse over the little "sarcastic" icon. If people don't understand that. Which they normally don't adding blue text will just make it more confusing.

I agree. Each time I imply something as being sarcastic, I usually use the "rolleyes" icon. I think that usually gets the point across.

[michael.lauden]

if you can't take a joke - why would the person joking around get introuble, and not you?


that's my question for the day

[IJ Reilly]

if you can't take a joke - why would the person joking around get introuble, and not you?


that's my question for the day

My question of the day is -- what does this mean?

[Tomorrow]

Sounds like an interesting idea in theory, but you know it would just create a slew of threads from newbies asking 'why are some people typing in blue??!!?!!??!?!!?!'

I'm not sure something like this would catch on until you could get just about the whole internet "community" in on it - for now, most people at least get the idea of emoticons, a handful understand stuff like </sarcasm>, but if this forum is the only one using blue text to mean sarcasm it's gonna cause some confusion.

[epyfa]

if you can't take a joke - why would the person joking around get introuble, and not you?


that's my question for the day

My question of the day is -- what does this mean?

Answer: 42!

[Tilpots]

In case you don't know what sarcasm is... :D

Thanks for taking the time to add this to the conversation!

[Eanair]

I thought that's what this emoticon was for?

:rolleyes:

The rollover text is "Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)"

EDIT: I am in the lazy camp though. Clicking on the emoticon face seems to be much easier/faster than highlighting your sarcastic text and choosing the text color blue from the drop down box. Even if you wrote color="blue" and /color, that's still waaay too many keystrokes, hehe.

[MrSmith]

I thought that's what this emoticon was for?

:rolleyes:

The rollover text is "Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)"
I thought it meant "Jeez. What a dumbass"

[ViciousShadow21]

after hearing all of your wonderful responses:rolleyes: i like the idea of sticking to the rollyeyes smily. it simple and effective.

[Eanair]

I thought it meant "Jeez. What a dumbass"

I guess it could mean that too. :)

Oh, emotions and internets!! What a twisted web we weave! ;)

[mac 2005]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. - Oscar Wilde

Do we really need sarcasm in a forum about Apple products and services? Ask yourself what it adds to the conversation about, for example, the next version of OS X or the as-yet-undisclosed "tablet/netbook" product. Do we learn any more about Apple's intentions or the likelihood of the product as desribed in the rumor?

[RedTomato]

I hate sarcasm, and never use it.

I'm STILL waiting for my Powerbook G5.

[Eraserhead]

Do we really need sarcasm in a forum about Apple products and services?

Yes, sarcasm is an important part of English culture.

[.Andy]

Do we really need sarcasm in a forum about Apple products and services? Ask yourself what it adds to the conversation about, for example, the next version of OS X or the as-yet-undisclosed "tablet/netbook" product. Do we learn any more about Apple's intentions or the likelihood of the product as desribed in the rumor?
You could say this about any form of literary device :confused:.

Metaphors, similes, onomatopoeia - none teaches us anything about the new version of OSX. Don't single out and pick on sarcasm you meanie.

[mac 2005]

Don't single out and pick on sarcasm you meanie.

:D

Point taken. If I may be serious, though, the other figures of speech you mention are playful and demonstrate an appreciation for language or an attempt to simplify complex subjects. Sarcasm typically amounts to nothing more than an attempt to disguise an attack on a person.

[IJ Reilly]

Yes, sarcasm is an important part of English culture.

I grew up in a part of the US where sarcasm is very much a part of the culture. Then I moved to another part of the US where it isn't. I learned painfully that it has to be used appropriately and carefully or it will be taken as hostility.

You could say this about any form of literary device :confused:.

Metaphors, similes, onomatopoeia - none teaches us anything about the new version of OSX. Don't single out and pick on sarcasm you meanie.

There's a reason why Oscar Wilde called sarcasm "the lowest form of wit." Posters in this forum should understand that it can easily be taken as an effort to demean another person. Sarcastic remarks are little if at all short of an insult. Nobody should be too surprised when the free use of sarcasm starts fights.

[Sun Baked]

Regarding -- Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. - Oscar Wilde But if there was no sarcasm in some of these threads, they would be nothing more than witless threads.

[IJ Reilly]

But if there was no sarcasm in some of these threads, they would be nothing more than witless threads.

Worthy of Wilde himself. :)

[.Andy]

There's a reason why Oscar Wilde called sarcasm "the lowest form of wit." Posters in this forum should understand that it can easily be taken as an effort to demean another person. Sarcastic remarks are little if at all short of an insult. Nobody should be too surprised when the free use of sarcasm starts fights.
Sarcasm can just as easily be used to defuse a situation as well. As much as I love Wilde I've always thought he was wrong on this one. Sarcasm can be extremely subtle, clever, and powerful.

There's plenty on the list I consider lower than sarcasm - puns for instance. Not that they're not funny but on the level of sophistication they're down at rock bottom.

[IJ Reilly]

Sarcasm can just as easily be used to defuse a situation as well. As much as I love Wilde I've always thought he was wrong on this one. Sarcasm can be extremely subtle, clever, and powerful.

Can be, usually isn't. Amongst friends, it can be a form of affectionate jesting. Amongst strangers, especially in written form -- very dangerous.

There's plenty on the list I consider lower than sarcasm - puns for instance. Not that they're not funny but on the level of sophistication they're down at rock bottom.

Ouch! I mean, ouch!

[Eraserhead]

There's plenty on the list I consider lower than sarcasm - puns for instance. Not that they're not funny but on the level of sophistication they're down at rock bottom.

Think about what your saying about British culture, without puns we'd have nothing :eek:.

[mac 2005]

It's also worth mentioning that people often misunderstand sarcasm (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm), which is defined as "a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain."

Consider the famous Alanis Morissette song in which none of the things she mentioned is the least bit ironic. Rain on your wedding day is bad luck, not irony. Can't find the utensil you want at the restaurant? Also bad luck.

Sarcasm is not saying, "That's going to happen." with the idea that an exaggerated emphasis on "that" means the opposite.

Sarcasm is saying to a person who arrives late at the office, "Working a half day, today?" You have no idea about the person's circumstance or motives, but you've cast them as someone shirking his/her obligations -- never mind your own track record for arriving on-time.

[rdowns]

Sarcasm is saying to a person who arrives late at the office, "Working a half day, today?" You have no idea about the person's circumstance or motives, but you've cast them as someone shirking his/her obligations -- never mind your own track record for arriving on-time.


Perhaps you should wake up say, 15 minutes earlier.

[JNB]

Think about what your saying about British culture, without puns we'd have nothing :eek:.

That isn't a pun, it's an oxymoron.

Oh, wait, you said British, not American. My bad. :p

[Sun Baked]

Think about what your saying about British culture, without puns we'd have nothing :eek:.

There is always misery and warm beer.

[IJ Reilly]

There is always misery and warm beer.

One in the same thing, some might say.

[Rt&Dzine]

Sarcasm can just as easily be used to defuse a situation as well. As much as I love Wilde I've always thought he was wrong on this one. Sarcasm can be extremely subtle, clever, and powerful.

There's plenty on the list I consider lower than sarcasm - puns for instance. Not that they're not funny but on the level of sophistication they're down at rock bottom.

Sarcasm can be clever, and I'll admit you're one of the masters. But usually it's not. Stockpile sarcasm is beneath punnery.

[Arran]

On the "blue text=sarcasm" thing....
This idea wouldn't work I'm afraid because then how would people who post something wrong or offensive then be able to claim a few posts later that it was sarcasm or irony ;)

My thoughts exactly. Having to pre-color sarcasm would rob them of a handy dandy face-saving device which simultaneously allows them to look down their nose in a supercilious "I'm literally superior to you" sort-of way.

I mean, what else they gonna do? Say sorry? :rolleyes:

[Sun Baked]

On the "blue text=sarcasm" thing....If the blue text ever comes into favor I'm quite sure quite a few people will end up with some Rodney King moments...

There you are cruising down MacRumors highway hopped up on Comic Sans, when all of a sudden out of nowhere comes this flash of blue, which drags you out of your seat and proceeds to pummel you silly.

[ViciousShadow21]

There you are cruising down MacRumors highway hopped up on Comic Sans

love the imagery of that sentence.

at this point i concede to the ":rolleyes:"

as someone who as gotten "in to it" with a few forum members (IJ Rielly it was fun) i just thought it could help. but i see the point that you guys are making. it is kind of fun in a way to keep it ambiguous.

[jigen08]

I wouldn't call it the lowest form of wit, as that implies it is wit. It isn't.

It's childish abuse, smug and mocking contempt, masked in the pretense of being somehow friendly.

It is different from irony, which is subtle and can be witty.

Sarcasm is usually outgrown and discarded through a good education.

[jessica.]

I wouldn't call it the lowest form of wit, as that implies it is wit. It isn't.

It's childish abuse, smug and mocking contempt, masked in the pretense of being somehow friendly.

It is different from irony, which is subtle and can be witty.

Sarcasm is usually outgrown and discarded through a good education.

Thanks for the info.

[Unspoken Demise]

Whose sarcastic around here?

[-aggie-]

I guess I didn't get a good education? :confused:

[MacNut]

Sarcasm is usually outgrown and discarded through a good education.I guess that means all funny people are stupid then?

[thejadedmonkey]

I guess that means all funny people are stupid then?

Yep! ;)

[Schtumple]

Sarcasm is usually outgrown and discarded through a good education.

I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, does this mean I had a bad education? :<

[geoffreak]

This thread is clearly getting somewhere [/sarcasm]

[tabasco70]

No. If I'm being sarcastic online and someone doesn't get it, I like to have the opportunity to snicker at their being a dumbass. If no one gets it, then it just proves I'm smarter than everyone else.

either that,
or your attempt at sarcasm was a fail. :D

[emt1]

The whole premise of this thread is a joke... right... right??

[solvs]

If you don't get that I'm using sarcasm, then I don't care, because I probably hate you, and refuse to make any extra effort to highlight and click on blue.

[alphaod]

This means I can say anything and expect to get away with it if it's in blue!

[dukebound85]

This means I can say anything and expect to get away with it if it's in blue!

it is way easier to do that if you type in white!

[alphaod]

it is way easier to do that if you type in white!

Actually if you have to use a bit of off white if you want it to be invisible.