1000 Songs - Just Right?

[MacRumors]

A Jupiter Research survey (http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5197874.html) reveals some interesting statistics about consumer interest in portable audio players.

According to their survey, 90% have no more than 1000 songs on their computer, while 77% of consumers would be interested in purchasing a portable music player with a 1000 song capacity.

Top features listed of interest to consumers include rechargable battery, smallo device size and computer connectivity.

Obvious comparisons are made towards Apple's most recent iPod Mini which appears to fit well with these desirable features.

[sabbath999]

Perhaps Apple knows what it's doing?

[flyfish29]

Funny this comes up today...I just realized I have 993 songs in my computer right now. I have more Cd's but that is what I have in my computer and would have in my iPod if I had one. :(

[musicpyrite]

Perhaps Apple knows what it's doing?

I agree, I think they do pretty good homework, but a 1,000 song player would not be enough room for me, I just hit 2,648 songs today. :D

[mymemory]

Well, is obvious, I have a huge amount of CD's and all of them are in one DVD Rom disc. I had to delet about 6 CDs to make them all fit but I have music there that I do not eve listen any more like 80"s stuff.

The iPod Mini would be perfect for that, I do not see sense in getting a 15GB iPod to carry just 5GB worth of music when I'm just gonna listen to 10% of that.

I would consider an iPod with video output, that would be nice, specially for presentations and imagine the iTunes visuals in an iPod, not in the LCD of course but with a s-video output.

[tny]

According to their survey, 90% have no more than 1000 songs on their computer, while 77% of consumers would be interested in purchasing a portable music player with a 1000 song capacity.


Guess that puts me in the 10%. 15.99 GB of music, 15 GB iPod. D'oh!

[Macmaniac]

Whoa I just counted and I have 905 songs in my iTunes library for 3.14gbs, of course some of that is stuff I don't even listen too, the iPod mini seems to be in the perfect sweet spot according to this survey, now if Apple could lower the price by $50 then I bet Apple could grab a 50 to 60 percent mp3 player market share!

[ZildjianKX]

2716 songs... the iPod caused me to get more music since it had so much room.

[thatwendigo]

I have 4970 songs at 24.66GB of space. That, my friends is 15 days, 11 hours, 28 minutes, and 35 seconds of continuous music.

What do I keep it on, when I leave my room?

A 5GB RevA iPod, of course! :rolleyes:

I really do need a new one.

[Grimace]

I wonder why people mark this as "negative" - any thoughts? :confused:

[macguymike]

Maybe now all the people who were saying that 4GB on the mini isn't enough will finally realize that unless you're a music-phile, it is, in fact, plenty. I don't think most people will even carry around their complete library with them. I know I don't.

[PlaceofDis]

3,257 songs in my library, but i have more cds that i havent put onto my computer yet....so i am at exactly 14gbs and i have a 15gig iPod, and i am going to need some more space soon. but i will make due i guess... the iPod Mini would never work for me, but thats just me....glad that the mini is doing as well as it is though

[Bunzi2k4]

I have about 3,000 songs, and i listen to about 800 songs regularly...
All on a 15 gig ipod :-D

[LaMerVipere]

Ummm that's fab, just fabuleux...

I'll take my 15gig over a defective mini anyday.

[ipacmm]

2282 songs...all on a 15GB ipod

[Pegano]

I don't know about this 1000 song business... That might be ok if I encoded everything at 128 or so, which is not the case. 5gb rev A ain't gonna hold much longer. I have only 50 megs left!

[peterj1967]

7646 Songs 24 day 36.06 GB...

That's in iTunes, and I have about 50 more CDs to rip. I live in a studio in Manhattan, so digitizing, and getting rid of CD cases and replacing them with sleeves was a space must.

I still have the original 5 GB iPod, and it holds more then enough music for what I take on the road.

[PretendPCuser]

Just recently got a 40Gb iPod from my fiancé (she bought it from the Apple Store, too...she's the bestest!)

Since I carry my iPod pretty much everywhere and have exactly 2600 files in iTunes eating up ~13Gb of my 40Gbs, I use it as a backup for other "important" files. Could I have gotten away with a 15Gb iPod? Of course, but then i couldn't add other files (read:harddrive) and limits my new music consumption. I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile, but personally i like to be able to listen to whatever I have, whenever the mood strikes. Not to mention being able to use it to transfer large files is great.

1000 songs is great for those times when you're listening to your 100 favorite songs, but when you want to hear that one song that just wouldn't fit on a 1000 song "iPod/MP3 player", you're out of luck.

Not judging their research/your mp3 player choice, this is just my preference.

What else do you use your iPod for?

[SoGood]

Yep, iPod mini is almost perfect for me. But just not quite right now. I'll wait for the revision where the HD capacity is increased and it has the ability to act as data storage etc.

4G just accommodates every song in my iTunes. But won't be adequate in time. 8G would be decent and would last the life of iPod Mini.

[Lepton]

Yeah, and I've never needed more than 64K on my computer, either...

[neonart]

The 1000 song thing is a "catch" phrase too. I once though when I got my first 5GB iPod. "Wow, 1000 songs. I'll never fill that up." Now at some 1300 songs and counting my 20GB Gen2 iPod fits the bill much better- now and in the future.

But people THINK 1000 is ok and will get a Mini since it's cheaper. Then, when they realize they need more (and now hooked on the iPod interface) they get a bigger one.

Count it- 2 iPod sales for Apple. Very clever.

[ibookin']

I have 2062 songs, down from about 4000 (I deleted stuff I don't listen to). Sad thing is it totals 9.4GB, which is 40MB more than my 10GB iPods 9.36GB formatted capacity.

My iPod has everything on it besides the Greatest One Hit Wonders collection.

[J-Squire]

Maybe now all the people who were saying that 4GB on the mini isn't enough will finally realize that unless you're a music-phile, it is, in fact, plenty. I don't think most people will even carry around their complete library with them. I know I don't.

Agreed. I remember when Apple launched the mini, the forums were flooded with posts saying how stupid an idea it was becuase so few people have less than 1000 songs on their computers. Although I too am in the 10%, I had never imagined Mr. Joe Average as having over 1000 songs in their collection.

[neonart]

Yeah, and I've never needed more than 64K on my computer, either...

LOL. I remember studding Graphics Arts and working in PS and AI on a 33Mhz Centris 610 (or 630)! That was smoking!
I also remember hearing about the folks that did the promotional art for the Miami Heat and their INCREDIBLE Quadra with no less than 256MB of RAM. I almost passed out when I heard that...

There is always room for more.

[Omad0n]

as for me, i still have about 70 cd's to add. Currently I'm at 1236 songs taking up a whopping 12.16GB, yeah you heard me right.

[Gherkin]

I have a 30 GB iPod, and I don't plan on getting a new one until it either fills up with songs (only using 8 GB right now) or it breaks.

That is unless Apple makes the 4G iPods insanely awesome. Which they probably will (damn Apple).

[iGuy]

2,843 songs -- 320 AAC --> 26.37 GB

I intend to grow my collection over time.

Additional room for other files would be nice.

~iGuy

[Abstract]

Funny this comes up today...I just realized I have 993 songs in my computer right now. I have more Cd's but that is what I have in my computer and would have in my iPod if I had one. :(

Neonart:
I once though when I got my first 5GB iPod. "Wow, 1000 songs. I'll never fill that up." Now at some 1300 songs and counting my 20GB Gen2 iPod fits the bill much better- now and in the future.

But people THINK 1000 is ok and will get a Mini since it's cheaper. Then, when they realize they need more (and now hooked on the iPod interface) they get a bigger one.

Count it- 2 iPod sales for Apple. Very clever.

I think a lot of people here are like you. They have a good sized collection, but have more CD's they could rip. I have CD's I listen to regularly that are not on my computer.

But that's the problem, and only Neonart gets it. If I had an iPod, I would live and plan my listening needs around what I have available, and since I would have an iPod, I would make sure that all my music is in mp3 or AAC format so that I can bring the songs I want with me. My 900 song collection, perfect for an iPod mini, would be inadequate quite quickly once I ripped all my CD's onto my computer. And yes, all the music on my computer are songs I listen to regularly. Music always seems to be on in my room.
Someone with only a small mp3 collection would make more of an effort to get that music onto his computer so that he could put them on his iPod once he got one. A need for digitized music only comes from the availability of software and hardware. Getting an iPod would automatically get people into expanding their digital music collection.

Essentially, this IS a 2 iPod sale for Apple, like Neonart said.

[Borg3of5]

I've recently learned that you really can't use statistics to give a nice square box view of the world. UNFORTUNATELY, and much to my disappointment, it doesn't work that way.

The same with my iPod. I got 2G iPod about a year ago, and I've just about hit the half-way mark. I have enough music to fill it up, though. I just dread the thought of getting to the 4999th song, and the darned thing won't take the last one.

What I'm really interested in is a 4G iPod, with FM tuner, and being able to see my digital pictures on it. Somewhat like an integrated iTunes and iPhoto device.

[dukemeiser]

I've got 1181 songs. Maybe this should be the next MacPoll...how many songs do you have on your computer?

[JohnGillilan]

Once this "Home on iPod" feature materializes (fingers crossed . . .) these extravagent hard drives will make more sense.

[rikers_mailbox]

as for me, i still have about 70 cd's to add. Currently I'm at 1236 songs taking up a whopping 12.16GB, yeah you heard me right.

(whips out calculator) woah, that's about 10 Mb per song! Either they're really long, or you use a crazy sample rate. . .

do you have super-hero hearing abilities?

[J-Squire]

I've got 1181 songs. Maybe this should be the next MacPoll...how many songs do you have on your computer?

Already done....i think a month or two ago. I was suprised at the results. The Macrumors community certainly doesn't fit into the statistics that Jupiter provided. There were hardly any under 1000, and most were over 3000

[Dr. Pookey]

I don't know what I'd do without only 4 GB of space. Right now I have a 15 GB iPod (Sadly, it's really only about 14 GB formatted). I think I have it half full, and my collection is always increasing. I would personally find it frustrating to have to alternate which songs I put on my iPod, because I'd, no doubt, want to listen to a song not on my iPod but on my computer.

[bloosqr]

Great thread! I actually spent the last few months ripping my CD collection which boils down to 18746 songs according to iTunes at 167.53 gigs (I've been ripping at 320K since drives are reasonably cheap but ripping this many cds is something I never want to do again since it took so long). This is allegedly 1686 cds but many of those are EP's or part "2" of a 2CD set.
Its *really* nice to have ones entire record collection on random as you end up "rediscovering" lots of good music that you wouldn't have thought of listening to..

I suppose it will be a while before we get the 200 gig ipod :D

I've got the thing set up so at some point i'll run a icecast station :)

[neonart]

Great thread! I actually spent the last few months ripping my CD collection which boils down to 18746 songs according to iTunes at 167.53 gigs (I've been ripping at 320K since drives are reasonably cheap but ripping this many cds is something I never want to do again since it took so long). This is allegedly 1686 cds but many of those are EP's or part "2" of a 2CD set.
Its *really* nice to have ones entire record collection on random as you end up "rediscovering" lots of good music that you wouldn't have thought of listening to..

I suppose it will be a while before we get the 200 gig ipod :D

I've got the thing set up so at some point i'll run a icecast station :)

I guess you can haul around a G5 with an LCD and generator duck tapped to the side. Then it could be like a 250GB iPod, or more. Weight and expense aside, it could work... :D

[~Shard~]

I have a ton of music as it is, but in particular, I record the BBC Radio One Essential Mixes every week, and have every show since 1993 (save about 10). That's a 2-hour show every week for 10 years - in other words, 1040 hours, give or take (some mixes are 3, 4 or 5 hours in length), so this works out to about 45 days of music right there - and at 170 MB each, when encoded, well, I have over 100 GB of these mixes on their own - not to mention the rest of my large music collection. Yah, I'm a freak! :cool:

Incidentally, if anyone enjoys the Essential Mixes, I could probably sort you out with some tunes! ;) :cool:

[countermeme]

looking through the "shared music" users on my university's network, and about half of the people have only 3 to 6 gigs of music. there are a small handful that have 12 or more gigs.

I can easily imagine that most people only want to carry around 1000 songs with them. Not everyone wants their entire music collection on their ipod. they just want some music to work out to or something for the daily commute. and a portable that holds 30 or 40gigs just doesn't look attractive at all to them.

There is a line where more is better in terms of a portable player loses its attractiveness. I only have about 8 gigs of music on my 15 gig iPod, but I have 25 gigs of music on my computer.

I don't want all of it with me all the time. there is only so much music albums you can listen to and only so many hours that you can listen to in a single charge.

[seanessey]

I'm always agonising over what to take on my 3G 30GB iPod; my iTunes library just hit 17800 songs, at 126.8GB. Many of these tracks are continuous mixes more than an hour in length, and about 1/3 of all my music is encoded as AAC files. I've been digitizing my tracks since Soundjam; I think choosing music on your computer screen is the best, as is making playlists.

It really was a revolution for me. And I was a freak to begin with.

So, what I'm patiently waiting for is the 200GB iPod Maxi. :)
By the time that comes out, I'll be up to a TB...

[Omad0n]

(whips out calculator) woah, that's about 10 Mb per song! Either they're really long, or you use a crazy sample rate. . .

do you have super-hero hearing abilities?


I wish I had superhero abilities. No no, what i have is sets that run a couple horus long, smapled at 192. Those blessed/cursed things add up real fast.

[melchior]

I'm always agonising over what to take on my 3G 30GB iPod; my iTunes library just hit 17800 songs, at 126.8GB. Many of these tracks are continuous mixes more than an hour in length, and about 1/3 of all my music is encoded as AAC files. I've been digitizing my tracks since Soundjam; I think choosing music on your computer screen is the best, as is making playlists.

It really was a revolution for me. And I was a freak to begin with.

So, what I'm patiently waiting for is the 200GB iPod Maxi. :)
By the time that comes out, I'll be up to a TB...

i'm in the same boat. though, admittedly, about half of where you are. i almost lost all my stored music yesterday. damn not checking permissions! can't afford to backup though... maybe if i can get hold of a dvd-r...

oh and i use a 2g 10gb happily never wishing i had a larger harddrive. in fact, i had a dream i had an 80gb iPod and it looked like a brick.

now, what i want! is decent battery capacity and support for ogg! c'mon apple! you can do it!

[cb911]

yep, Apple definitely knows what it's doing! :D

well now this has got me curious to see how many songs i've got in iTunes... about 1880. well i've got alot more that i haven't put on, not enough free space on my PB.

i wouldn't go for a iPod that just fit my music collection though. people forget that you're not just buying a MP3/AAC player... you're buying an external HD. i'd much rather have only 1/3 of my iPod filled and have the rest so i can back up my stuff.

[topicolo]

I find that 4Gb should be a fairly manageable size of mp3s to have. I have about 12Gb of Mp3s on my 20Gb iPod and it's really eating into my hd space, since iTunes requires me to have a copy on my computer's hard drive. I wish apple would remove that requirement and just let me store 1 copy of everything on the ipod :rolleyes:

[lou tsee]

Unless you want to redecode AAC files to linear (for editing/mixing purposes and the like) there's absolutely no need to encode higher than 160k. I am a professional producer/composer and encode my music at 128k AAC for playback purposes. I really don't understand why some people go so much higher....

my Library: 11'000 songs - 50GB

[CrackedButter]

What about people who don't encode 128kps?

I have 714 songs but i have hit 5.5Gb's, I encode at 256kps.

[MikeH]

I've got about 7gb's of music on my computer but I still consider a 4gb mini would be more than enough for my needs, but as you can't get the mini's in the UK yet it's a bit irrelevant at the moment...

I can see why some people would want the bigger iPod's - extra storage space, no need to swap files, or they simply just want the ultimate iPod - all of which are valid reasons.

However, I think for a lot of people the smaller size/weight of the mini, it's looks and the fact 4gb will still hold a thousand tracks will be all they want and need. I include myself in that group. Make it a touch cheaper an it would be perfect...

As a side note, a girl I work with saw the mini iPod in pink, squealed with delight and asked 'how much and where from' - the fact that it was 'only' 4gb never entered into the equation.

[KLFloyd]

I have just under 900 songs in my music library but a year ago I had less than 200. Just goes to show how much My music collection has grown in the past year, I'm sure it will do nothing but get larger and larger.

While I love the iPod mini's size, I'm just not sure I could live with the small size. I have a 10GB Classic iPod Now. It's just enough for me to sync all my songs, and backup my entire documents folder with a few GB to spare. Room to grow!

Using the iPod as a travel/backup hard drive to me is one of it's most appealing features.

-Katie

[crenz]

I wonder if there's a plugin for iTunes for a lossless audio codec, for those that like to encode their music at 320k. Because you can get lossless compression for only a slightly bigger filesize (than 320k/s).

[denm316]

I have 2,903 songs in my library, thats 8.5 says and 11.23 GB. The 15 GB iPod I have is growing ever so small each day.

[denm316]

I've got about 7gb's of music on my computer but I still consider a 4gb mini would be more than enough for my needs, but as you can't get the mini's in the UK yet it's a bit irrelevant at the moment...

I can see why some people would want the bigger iPod's - extra storage space, no need to swap files, or they simply just want the ultimate iPod - all of which are valid reasons.

However, I think for a lot of people the smaller size/weight of the mini, it's looks and the fact 4gb will still hold a thousand tracks will be all they want and need. I include myself in that group. Make it a touch cheaper an it would be perfect...

As a side note, a girl I work with saw the mini iPod in pink, squealed with delight and asked 'how much and where from' - the fact that it was 'only' 4gb never entered into the equation.

I love the physical size and the design of the iPod mini, I just could not deal with having to manage a playlist evertime I sync. Sure I probably only listen to 10% of the music on my 15 GB iPod, but I just like the feeling of knowing I have it all there if I choose to listen to something else.

[cgmpowers]

I keep wishing for an 80 gb iPod...

18,952 songs, 1,559 albums/3,247 artists/72 Genres, 75.15 GB of music.. That's 46.7 days worth of continuous music (and a couple of audiobooks).

Guess that puts me in the 10%. 15.99 GB of music, 15 GB iPod. D'oh!

[advocate]

I wonder if there's a plugin for iTunes for a lossless audio codec, for those that like to encode their music at 320k. Because you can get lossless compression for only a slightly bigger filesize (than 320k/s).

At 320kbit/s, 74 minutes of audio consumes 173 megabytes. A 74 minute CD contains 650 megabytes of data. I don't see how you can say a factor of almost 4 difference is a "slightly bigger filesize".

[SiliconAddict]

Well I guess I'm in that 10%. I have 36GB of songs well over 1,000 tracks on my computer right now. Even Apple's top of the line iPod would barely fit my collection. I'm really hoping for a 50-60GB iPod this summer. :(

[Nny]

Guess that puts me in the 10%. 15.99 GB of music, 15 GB iPod. D'oh!

Same here... 5726 songs on a 30 GB iPod with 4 GB free. Starting to get cramped in there.

[Nny]

At 320kbit/s, 74 minutes of audio consumes 173 megabytes. A 74 minute CD contains 650 megabytes of data. I don't see how you can say a factor of almost 4 difference is a "slightly bigger filesize".

A 74 minute cd COULD contain 650 MB of data (if it didn't contain audio... it's an audio cd, not a data cd)... I don't think that audio and data correlate in the way you imply, but I can't be sure. That would mean a minute of uncompressed losless audio would be 8.65 MB. Anybody know if that's the average file size for a minute of a FLAC or AIFF file? Is it more or less?

[jacg]

yep, Apple definitely knows what it's doing! :D

well now this has got me curious to see how many songs i've got in iTunes... about 1880. well i've got alot more that i haven't put on, not enough free space on my PB.

i wouldn't go for a iPod that just fit my music collection though. people forget that you're not just buying a MP3/AAC player... you're buying an external HD. i'd much rather have only 1/3 of my iPod filled and have the rest so i can back up my stuff.

Freaky. I have 1877 on my PB. (11.78 Gb)

I don't have an iPod. With a big one, can you have more on your iPod than on your computer (or only the other way round)?

Edit: Ah, I see.
"I find that 4Gb should be a fairly manageable size of mp3s to have. I have about 12Gb of Mp3s on my 20Gb iPod and it's really eating into my hd space, since iTunes requires me to have a copy on my computer's hard drive. I wish apple would remove that requirement and just let me store 1 copy of everything on the ipod"

[advocate]

I love the physical size and the design of the iPod mini, I just could not deal with having to manage a playlist evertime I sync. Sure I probably only listen to 10% of the music on my 15 GB iPod, but I just like the feeling of knowing I have it all there if I choose to listen to something else.
You know, I was a bit anxious about that before I bought my mini, but eventually I came to the conclusion that I wasn't going to be able to haul my entire library around with me no matter what size iPod I bought. Sure, the 40 GB iPod can barely hold my current library, but my library is growing all the time. I thought about it for a while and decided to use smart playlists to overcome that challenge.

I have five playlists in iTunes set up to sync with my mini. One is a smartlist of one gigabyte of most often played songs. One is a smartlist of one gigabyte of most recently played songs. One is a smartlist of 750 MB of most recently added songs. One is a smartlist of one gigabyte of random songs not played in the last 14 days. And the last is a manual playlist for my current audiobook.

Now I don't have to touch my playlists, except when I finish listening to a book, and I always have music around that I'm likely to listen to, along with some music that I haven't heard in a while. And chances are, if there's a particular song I feel like listening to, it'll be there.

I love my mini to pieces. The best part about it is that it's so small and so light that I can just put it in my jacket pocket. I wish there were a way to make a super-playlist that includes other playlists, though: if I could throw the four smart playlists into one super-playlist, and play that, then I wouldn't have to occasionally skip past a chapter of an audiobook while in shuffle play.

[advocate]

A 74 minute cd COULD contain 650 MB of data (if it didn't contain audio... it's an audio cd, not a data cd)... I don't think that audio and data correlate in the way you imply, but I can't be sure. That would mean a minute of uncompressed losless audio would be 8.65 MB. Anybody know if that's the average file size for a minute of a FLAC or AIFF file? Is it more or less?

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that data sectors use only 2048 bytes of each 2352 byte sector on a CD. So in fact the uncompressed audio would be 780 MB, not 650 MB. That means uncompressed audio is a factor of 4.5 larger than audio compressed at 320 kbit/s.

http://www.feurio.com/English/faq/faq_playtime.shtml

[the silver fox]

how much space it would take up, but I have around 2500+ CDs (currently only about 380+ CDs in iTunes). I may try sticking them all on just for the laugh. :D

[ktrout]

A Jupiter Research survey (http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5197874.html) reveals some interesting statistics about consumer interest in portable audio players.

According to their survey, 90% have no more than 1000 songs on their computer, while 77% of consumers would be interested in purchasing a portable music player with a 1000 song capacity.


I think this vindicates Apple's strategy with the miniPod. Lots were skeptical around here.

It also provides a nice opportunity for some interesting research on this group. I often think that the viewpoints expressed here, though often articulate and insightful,* are not representative of the larger market--even among the Mac faithful.

So let's take it as given that only 10% of the general computing public has more than 1000 songs.** I would bet that 90% of the participants here are in that 10%. I certainly am. Thanks to a diligent program of AAC-izing my CDs (and the iTMS) I have hit 26GB.

Let's count 'em up and see. Based on the posts I have just read, it looks like it may be more like 99.7%.

* They are also sometimes mean-spirited and ignorant, from time to time.

** I have not evaluated the source of these figures. They may, of course, be ************.

[cxny]

3745 Songs 21.66 Gigs is begining to max out my 30 Gig iPod. My experience with the original 5 Gig iPod was frustrating, having to really watch what I loaded on and deleting stuff constantly. With even the new PBs shipping with a paltry 80G HD it really limits putting "entire librarys"on iTunes. As for iPod minis, they got it just right! (ie you can't even get one) my neighbours have 3 5gig pods and 2 minis between 2 adults and 2 kids but none of them have loaded more than a few hundred songs. I'm sure that's more typical usage than the average reader of this forum. Don't forget in this day of "legal" downloads maxing out an ipod mini is going to set back a teenager user $1000 and that's on top of the $250 of hard earned cash for the player. For now 4 Gigs hits the sweet spot.

[choogheem]

Hmm, at present I have 5965 songs and I'm still adding. While 1000 songs would seem like a large amount, anyone ever been on a 21 hour road trip and then another 21 hours back. I can say that 1000 songs is not enough especially driving through north dakota, indiana, nebraska or eastern colorado (take your pick).

[idkew]

I have 4970 songs at 24.66GB of space. That, my friends is 15 days, 11 hours, 28 minutes, and 35 seconds of continuous music.


you must have encoded them at a pretty low bitrate. i have over 500 less songs than you, but they take several more gigs of space.

[idkew]

Same here... 5726 songs on a 30 GB iPod with 4 GB free. Starting to get cramped in there.


what are you encoding at 96kbps?

[SiliconAddict]

So let's take it as given that only 10% of the general computing public has more than 1000 songs.**

* They are also sometimes mean-spirited and ignorant, from time to time.

** I have not evaluated the source of these figures. They may, of course, be ************.

I'm more then a little skeptical of these figures. Every friend I have has WELL over 1,000 songs. 2 or 3 are into the five digit range and the rest are in the 2,000+ range. Maybe its just the friends I hang out with :p

[iChan]

I wonder why people mark this as "negative" - any thoughts? :confused:

who cares?

[Rincewind42]

I wonder if there's a plugin for iTunes for a lossless audio codec, for those that like to encode their music at 320k. Because you can get lossless compression for only a slightly bigger filesize (than 320k/s).

There are at least 2 people/groups working on a FLAC Quicktime codec, so when that comes out iTunes and other Quicktime enabled applications will be able to play FLAC files.

[aricher]

With 13132 Songs on my HD - 95.97 GB - 44 days, 19 hours, 29 minutes and 19 seconds - methinks that an iPod mini is way too small :D

And that's not even counting my collection of audio books and "This American Life" shows.

I just convinced my ex-IBM'er mother to buy an iPod - this is the woman who when I saw the first Mac in 1984 said - "yeah I've heard about those things - basically an etch a sketch with a fancy screen."

[network23]

Remember who the likely respondant to this poll is. 95% of them will be running Windows computers. There are a lot of additional questions that need to be answered before you can accept the validity of the results.

1. Of these users, how many songs to they have *outside* their computer?

2. If they had an elegant system for listening to music on their computer (iTunes), would they have devoted more time to ripping more of their collection to the computer?

3. Where was this poll taken? From the results here, it sounds like users tend to underestimate the number of songs they have, so unless they were at their computer at the time of the poll, those numbers might be off.

I believe I am FAR from being a music collector. Most of my music is on vinyl. I bought *maybe* 15-20 CD's in the 90's and fewer than that in the 00's. Including the many, many tracks that came with my Dual USB iBook, I have around 1800 songs in my collection.

[RogerQ]

Uncompressed stereo audio at 44.1kHz x 16 bits (CD quality) is approximately 10 MB / minute.



A 74 minute cd COULD contain 650 MB of data (if it didn't contain audio... it's an audio cd, not a data cd)... I don't think that audio and data correlate in the way you imply, but I can't be sure. That would mean a minute of uncompressed losless audio would be 8.65 MB. Anybody know if that's the average file size for a minute of a FLAC or AIFF file? Is it more or less?

[numediaman]

I have about 20 songs in my iTunes library -- I guess that puts me a little on the low side, huh? (Of course, I have about 2500 CDs, so it's not like I'm short of music.)

I'm sure Apple does a fair amount of market research before introducing products. I don't see that iPods are introduced based on the idea that bigger is better. After all, they could introduce an iPod with far more storage capacity, but why do it if it changes the design, or serves a market that doesn't exist, right?

[Aceon6]

I've got over 4000 tracks ripped, but only have 700 or so rated 4 or 5 stars. The mini is plenty for me to carry around the music I like most. Frankly, until something comes along that has a longer battery life, I need to "return to base" at least once a day anyway, so there's always the opportunity to switch out and pick up something new.

It seems to come down to whether you plan to use your pod as your primary storage or not. For me, the answer is not, so the mini works.

[sushi]

I agree, I think they do pretty good homework, but a 1,000 song player would not be enough room for me, I just hit 2,648 songs today. :D
Yeah, but with Playlists, it is so easy and takes very little time to change the songs on the iPod. Besides, you have to charge the battery so you can update your songs while charging.

1,000 songs. Just how long would that take to listen? At 3 min per song, that's 3,000 minutes or 50 continuous hours. More than plenty for most folks.

Sushi

[dmjones]

I currently have 5466 songs in my iTunes catalog--a total of over 16 days of continuous music that takes up over 31 GB on my hard drive (I encode everything at 192kbps for better quality). I still have all my box sets to add to the mix when I get time, and I buy 2-3 CDs per month (unless I get them at Half.com for really cheap--in which case I might buy 5 or 6 in a month). I don't have an iPod yet and honestly can't decide which way to go when I decide to get one: do I want the biggest one they make (40 GB at this time) so I can fit all my music--although the price is astronomical! Or should I opt for the mini and just put a portion of my music on it? It's a big decision that I hope to have to make later this year!

[sushi]

(whips out calculator) woah, that's about 10 Mb per song! Either they're really long, or you use a crazy sample rate. . .

do you have super-hero hearing abilities?
Well, it depends on one's needs.

You could rip each song twice. Once for a portable player and once for your stereo. But that is a lot of work. Or you could just rip one version. But the quality may be lacking or the file size big.

Personally, I took the option to rip one version. My encoding takes about 2MB per minute vice a CD file which is 10MB per minute.

So I save space, but still have great quality regardless of the medium I choose to listen over.

Sushi

[SiliconAddict]

I have about 20 songs in my iTunes library -- I guess that puts me a little on the low side, huh? (Of course, I have about 2500 CDs, so it's not like I'm short of music.


Dude can I borrow your collection for 2 weeks?!?!?! :D

[sushi]

I don't know what I'd do without only 4 GB of space. Right now I have a 15 GB iPod (Sadly, it's really only about 14 GB formatted). I think I have it half full, and my collection is always increasing. I would personally find it frustrating to have to alternate which songs I put on my iPod, because I'd, no doubt, want to listen to a song not on my iPod but on my computer.
iTunes keeps track of your playing habbits.

After a few months, you may just find that you don't listen to nearly as many songs as you think that you do.

If this is the case, you could then taylor your collection to what you listen to regularly and only carry those songs.

...or have two iPods. 40GB to hold everything and a mini for daily needs.

Sushi

[Nny]

what are you encoding at 96kbps?

Nope. Most of them are 160 or 192 kbps. The only stuff I have at less than 128 kbps is a few comedy albums (don't see a reason to waste more drive space on something that doesn't need that level of quality). On a second look at my library I found 105 songs are actually 5 second iTrip preset stations, so my collection is actually 5621 songs if you take those out. I guess the reason my collection doesn't take up more space is I have just about every theme song to every TV show I can find, as well as quite a few comedy shorts... most of these are a minute or less in length.

[rnd]

That's 1000 songs at 128kbps - not good enough for many of us. 128k just looses too much in my opinion, which is why I can't buy anything on the Apple Music Store. 1000 songs at decent quality is more like 5 to 6 gigs - even bigger if you are compressing to mp3.

[sushi]

Anybody know if that's the average file size for a minute of a FLAC or AIFF file? Is it more or less?
AIFF is about 10MB per minute (rough figure)

Sushi

[cxny]

Can you name an object more in desired right now than the iPod mini? From Teen girls to Grandads, Apple nailed it this time and yeah I doubt if many of those people research the HD size or even care. They probably assume anything that cool has all the features they need. Apple wisely spends scads of money on the design and maketing of their products and with the iPod mini they seem to have created the perfect storm.

[Piker]

I've got a 20GB iPod, about half full, but I use the other half fairly regularly as a FW disk, moving data between work and home. It's nice to be able to do that with just one device, instead of having to carry around an iPod and an external drive. One of those memory key things wouldn't be so bad, but they only hold a fraction of the available space on the 'pod.

-Piker

[uzombie]

so I don't have that much room to begin with.
(sorry, but I can hear the difference from 128 and 192 samples. I like the 192 and higher rates)

Off Topic- I would like a black iPod or iPodMini. Anyone else?
(I don't want a black cover. I want the entire unit to be black)


:)

[jbembe]

I have 7875 songs for 22.7 days of music @ 45.21 gigs of file space. I have the 40gig iPod. The key is smart playlists! I have an iPod-loader that selects all songs rated 3 stars or higher. Then I have other playlists, like songs not played in over a year, songs played only once (it took some time to listen to each song, now I have to listen to them all again,) 5 star, 4 star, 3 star lists, etc. etc. This way I can rotate through all my music more evenly than what happens when I go to pick out a CD, and I can select the most important music to fit. Of course, when you delete all the holiday music, I can almost fit everything onto the 30 (really ~36gigs.) And then when we went to Europe for 2 weeks I had to delete all of my NIN and Metallica (cleared ~2gigs) so I could transfer all the digital images we were taking onto the iPod. I would be a music-phile, however.

[hulugu]

Obviously this all depends on your listening habits. I have 1345 songs or 7.92GB and I lose music at this point, there are entire albums I haven't heard in a month. But, my commute is all of about 10 minutes so I spend much of my time listening to it at work. 1345 songs is 4 days and 6 hours according to iTunes, so if you figure 9 hours a day it takes more than 11 days to play every song once. That's a lot of music and I know people who don't even have more than 10 CDs who would balk at a 15GB player, but who wouldn't mind a mini.
But, I keep adding more music and I'm sure to blow through my 10Gb iPod eventually. Personally, I'm buying a 15Gb next, but for my wife who doesn't listen to music nearly as much as I do, a mini might be the thing.

[jbembe]

Unless you want to redecode AAC files to linear (for editing/mixing purposes and the like) there's absolutely no need to encode higher than 160k. I am a professional producer/composer and encode my music at 128k AAC for playback purposes. I really don't understand why some people go so much higher....

my Library: 11'000 songs - 50GB

I disagree, some of the iTMS songs I have you can hear some problems. For example, "S's" become more hissy and electronic sounds become hollowed and metallic at lower bit-rates. This could be a problem with files at iTMS, I haven't compared the same song I ripped myself at several bitrates... I go with 192 normally.

[iGuy]

Unless you want to redecode AAC files to linear (for editing/mixing purposes and the like) there's absolutely no need to encode higher than 160k. I am a professional producer/composer and encode my music at 128k AAC for playback purposes. I really don't understand why some people go so much higher....

my Library: 11'000 songs - 50GB

The only conditions under which this statement makes any sense is if you're listening with relatively poor audio equipment, earbud headphones or that you simply lack a good ear.

I encode at 320 AAC. I ran a number of tests and there is a clear differnce when the music is played back through my home stereo.

In your defence, there is pherhaps one other condition under which your statement may hold true. That is if you're listening to hip hop or something similar. It most certainly does not hold true for classical for jazz.

Most people on this forum, however, are refering to the play back of music, not noise.

~iGuy

[melchior]

I have 7875 songs for 22.7 days of music @ 45.21 gigs of file space. I have the 40gig iPod. The key is smart playlists! I have an iPod-loader that selects all songs rated 3 stars or higher. Then I have other playlists, like songs not played in over a year, songs played only once (it took some time to listen to each song, now I have to listen to them all again,) 5 star, 4 star, 3 star lists, etc. etc. This way I can rotate through all my music more evenly than what happens when I go to pick out a CD, and I can select the most important music to fit. Of course, when you delete all the holiday music, I can almost fit everything onto the 30 (really ~36gigs.) And then when we went to Europe for 2 weeks I had to delete all of my NIN and Metallica (cleared ~2gigs) so I could transfer all the digital images we were taking onto the iPod. I would be a music-phile, however.

can i just note the major feature i would like to see in itunes. (apart from more statistical and organisation features) --->

hierarchial playlists. you know, a playlist inside a playlist.

[TheJenk1963]

I have ripped my entire CD collection into iTunes (~2500 songs), and this in not even enough! iTunes and iPod have totally changed the way I listen to music. I play at random and listen to songs I have not heard in years! I probably would never have listened to these CDs again had it not been for iTunes and iPod. Now that I am begining to hear the same song twice, I need more.

[idkew]

Most people on this forum, however, are refering to the play back of music, not noise.

~iGuy

LOL! how true!

i normally encode at 240kbps aac.

i find it a good middle between file size and quality.

[elgruga]

2000 songs is just right - 10gigs.

It allows me to have some plays and stories on my old 10 gig iPod - 18 months old and working fine, including battery.

Isnt this why Apple makes a few models, so we can CHOOSE which capacity we want?

Silly piece of research, really.

BTW does anyone know how the positive /negative thing works on these forums?
I have been a member for a year or two and I still dont know......

[djbahdow01]

Most of my MP3s are encoded in 192k, although i do have some iTMS music downloaded, which doesn't sound that much less than the 192 on my decent car audio system. I am at 445 songs on my laptop, which is about 2.5 gb. I have more on mp3 cd's but most of the ones on the laptop are the ones i listen to at the moment.

[sw1tcher]

Guess that puts me in the 10%. 15.99 GB of music, 15 GB iPod. D'oh!

I'm in the same boat. I've got 22.4GB of music on my HDD right now. Had to leave some off of my 20GB iPod. Time to upgrade to a 40GB model, i guess...

[JFreak]

128k just looses too much in my opinion.

blind tests show that aac@128k sounds better than mp3@192k. most people cannot tell which is which if they compare mp3@192k encoded file and the original aiff side by side, and with aac@128k even i cannot sometimes be sure about it, without checking the rta graph visually.

sure, lossy compression loses something, but music is all about listening to it and digital technology is only making it possible.

by the way: how much technical quality is enough? let's face it, 16bit audio is just crap in itself, so encoding it into aac@128k is just fine. i'l be happy when it is feasible to put 24bit/96kHz dvd-audio quality music into the ipods..

[MorganX]

blind tests show that aac@128k sounds better than mp3@192k. most people cannot tell which is which if they compare mp3@192k encoded file and the original aiff side by side, and with aac@128k even i cannot sometimes be sure about it, without checking the rta graph visually.

sure, lossy compression loses something, but music is all about listening to it and digital technology is only making it possible.

by the way: how much technical quality is enough? let's face it, 16bit audio is just crap in itself, so encoding it into aac@128k is just fine. i'l be happy when it is feasible to put 24bit/96kHz dvd-audio quality music into the ipods..

FWIW my pesonal tests say 128 AAC/WMA are not close to 192k MP3. These blind tests can be mainpulated. i.e. choosing music with limited range. The best test is your own.

128k AAC/WMA are very acceptable but I would prefer to have a higher bit-rate archive and downgrade automatically when transferring to a portable.

[Frobozz]

Yup. I was not really interested in the original iPod, but the Mini made me buy one. I don't need more capacity. My primary buying factor was size and style.

[MacFan25]

This does seem about right, as most consumer clearly don't have more than 1,000 songs on their computers. I think the iPod Mini will continue to sell well, just like the regular iPod.

Apple must have done their homework before making the iPod Mini.

[dontmatter]

So now we know, 1000 seems to be the upper limit for your average dude, but... What stops stuff at 1000? Is it money, is it what people are exposed to on the radio, or is that as much as interests people, or they can keep track of? I mean.... I think it varies...lots of people will be pretty satisfied at a level, and not want to spend the money and time to explore more music. But, in places, like a college campus, where little music is obtained legally, it's more a question of just how much you care and how much you pay attention to music. Where is that limit? For people like me, who always want something different and new and more beautiful, there is a limit that I'm running into, where you can't quite know all your music, b/c you don't have the time to get really familiar with all of it, and instead hear a couple of good songs by an artist, and get several of their albums. It's frustrating, b/c I want to get new music, discover new things, but for a good portion of the artists/albums I have, I don't actually know what my favorite songs are, b/c I have been acquiring things too fast. i'm at 7818 songs, or 22.4 days worth...

so, where is the limit, if money isn't a problem?

[rnd]

most people cannot tell which is which if they compare mp3@192k encoded file and the original aiff side by side,

It depends on many things - the person, the headphones, the listening environment, the amp if you are using a separate one, etc. 128K aac sounds pretty good until you compare it to the CD. I've done many tests and I can definately tell the difference with my setup until I get to 192K aac - then it starts to becomes difficult with most music. It is still very easy to tell the difference with piano and classical if they are good recordings.

I'm just saying for me 4 gigs would never do unless I were using it for workouts or noisy commutes, but that's only for my own use and my own opinion.

[MacManDan]

A 74 minute cd COULD contain 650 MB of data (if it didn't contain audio... it's an audio cd, not a data cd)... I don't think that audio and data correlate in the way you imply, but I can't be sure. That would mean a minute of uncompressed losless audio would be 8.65 MB. Anybody know if that's the average file size for a minute of a FLAC or AIFF file? Is it more or less?

FLAC is not uncompressed lossless. It's one of many compressed lossless formats. It usually cuts down my 10MB/s uncompressed AIFFs by about half (to 5MB/s). Much better than 320kb/s AAC (since it's lossless) but unfortunately there is no plugin for iTunes.
FLAC is a great way to digitize your collection if you are picky about sound quality .....
http://flac.sourceforge.net/index.html

[autrefois]

With 13132 Songs on my HD - 95.97 GB - 44 days, 19 hours, 29 minutes and 19 seconds - methinks that an iPod mini is way too small :D

And that's not even counting my collection of audio books and "This American Life" shows.

I just convinced my ex-IBM'er mother to buy an iPod - this is the woman who when I saw the first Mac in 1984 said - "yeah I've heard about those things - basically an etch a sketch with a fancy screen."

And I thought I had a lot. I just hit 4000 tracks the other day: 10.4 days' worth. Which means of course that it's definitely time for Mac OS 10.4 to be released (next Tuesday?!?). :D

[~Shard~]

And I thought I had a lot. I just hit 4000 tracks the other day: 10.4 days' worth. Which means of course that it's definitely time for Mac OS 10.4 to be released (next Tuesday?!?). :D

Sorry man, but I still got him beat! Check out my post #37 (I think) on page 2 - over 100 GB of just BBC Radio One Essential Mixes, let alone the hundreds of my other CDs and tunes! Kay, I'm done bragging now... ;) :p

[Kurt Cobain]

I honestly dont get whats the point in showing off as if you're absolutly right for everyone, mainly the "I have million GB of songs muahahah glad I dont have that mini-not-for-power-users-moi device", but I'm not surprised, since it fits a very specific type of group in society. Sorry I come off like that, but this just gets me. :confused:

Come on now, do most of the ipod owners in here really REALLY listen to more than 1000 songs EVERY DAY? or every few days? or even every week, that they just cant stand the minis? I mean, is it some sort of a trend to store more if not all songs in your iPods just in case you get stucked in the desert, or your iBook got stolen? I also dont really think that an answer such as 'you might have larger choice of songs ready any time given', can be really satisfying, cause its not that true for the common user, the majority. A need for backup storage is a completely different story, but it didnt seem to me that most of the users here saw that as a major reason for their purchse of a larger capacity iPod, but more kinda like a need of "just in case", I am in a traffic jam from LA to NY, maybe I truly gotta listen to all my songs otherwise I'll snap, or I gotta show off/compare it with others.

I also have more than 1000 songs, A LOT more, and I wouldnt resist a 15gb iPod at all, however I just dont get the point behind acting clueless towards the minis. I cant even imagine myself listen to more than half of what I have in a week. When you drive your car, hang out, jog, play basketball or work, how long can you matrix yourself to it, if at all? I would most likely listen to my many favorite songs along with hundreds of extra good enough ones (just for diversity), but definitely not use EVERYTHING in my HD, not to mention I'm home almost half the time anyway.

Have a nice weekend yall.

[~Shard~]

I honestly dont get whats the point in showing off as if you're absolutly right for everyone, mainly the "I have million GB of songs muahahah glad I dont have that mini-not-for-power-users-moi device", but I'm not surprised, since it fits a very specific type of group in society. Sorry I come off like that, but this just gets me. :confused:

Come on now, do most of the ipod owners in here really REALLY listen to more than 1000 songs EVERY DAY? or every few days? or even every week, that they just cant stand the minis? I mean, is it some sort of a trend to store more if not all songs in your iPods just in case you get stucked in the desert, or your iBook got stolen? I also dont really think that an answer such as 'you might have larger choice of songs ready any time given', can be really satisfying, cause its not that true for the common user, the majority. A need for backup storage is a completely different story, but it didnt seem to me that most of the users here saw that as a major reason for their purchse of a larger capacity iPod, but more kinda like a need of "just in case", I am in a traffic jam from LA to NY, maybe I truly gotta listen to all my songs otherwise I'll snap, or I gotta show off/compare it with others.

I also have more than 1000 songs, A LOT more, and I wouldnt resist a 15gb iPod at all, however I just dont get the point behind acting clueless towards the minis. I cant even imagine myself listen to more than half of what I have in a week. When you drive your car, hang out, jog, play basketball or work, how long can you matrix yourself to it, if at all? I would most likely listen to my many favorite songs along with hundreds of extra good enough ones (just for diversity), but definitely not use EVERYTHING in my HD, not to mention I'm home almost half the time anyway.

Have a nice weekend yall.

Yah, I agree - as for tunes on iPods, it amazes me how people have their 40 Giggers completely full! I have a 20 GB iPod and I have about 7 GB of music on it, and this is more than I really even need on the thing, even for long road trips! As you can see from my post above, I have a ton of music archived, but there's no way I could ever listen to it in my lifetime! ;) My iPod has my favorite albums stored on it and enough music to last me quite a while when I'm away from my Mac - with room left over for portable storage. :cool:

[xelterran]

5268 songs here. Mostly from limewire.

[jail]

I have 358 songs in my library, so the iPod mini is fine for me. But even if I had over 1000 songs, the mini's size is far more important to me than fitting all my songs on it.
Price has nothing to do with it. If I had 5000 songs and the iPod mini was $100 more than the 40 gig iPod, I'd still want a mini, though I couldn't afford it...

[duklaprague]

at the end of the day its horses for course really - there are many who will be happy with 1,000 songs - be it teenagers just starting out and see 1,000 songs as a huge collection, or people who don't necessarily want their entire collection - the post earlier about the smart playlists was a cracking idea.

then there are the people who are really into their music and have been adding to their collection for many years. i'm only just at the stage where i'm about to get an i-pod. i've always loved my walkman - i don't drive, so walk everywhere (locally at least), and for the last few years my md walkman has served me well. i've always loved sony kit, but when their mp3 players came out they just seemed ludicrously priced for the memory on them - and, compared to the iPod, they screwed up royally with the memory stick walkman - very sexy bit of kit, but a how much for a blank tape/md (ie memory stick)? stupid money for the storage you got. so for quite some time i was fine with my minidisc.

then i went and got my powerbook. and started using i-tunes. i don't know what the hell it is about it - well, the great interface and ease of use i guess, but i just find that i use it all the time while i'm working away now - something i never really did with wma on the pc.

so now i've been moving all my music to i-tunes and have gotten up to that 1,000 song mark pretty easily, will probably have 3-4,000 songs in there by the time I finish. and if we ever get ITMS it'll be a great way of getting old music i currently only have on blank tapes - so i can see it growing.

for that reason, the current plan is to get a 40GB iPod (but damn them to hell if they bring out their AL 4G iPods a week later!). i know you don't need to carry around your entire collection, but i think you're just as well to if you can. thats the one downside to the MD - faffing around trying to decide what to grab just before i head out the door, or not being able to listen to the thing that just pops into my head that i'd like to be listening to.

to be able to have your entire collection with you all the time is ultimate solution, which is why its finallly time to retire the MD player.

Iain

[bella716]

Any truth to the rumors of staticy ipod minis? Mine is supposed to be delivered on 4/29. Thanks. :)

[evilcalvin]

I just wish they would drop the price a bit. $150 is a good price. I'm on a t ight budget.

[markie]

I have 1398 songs, and almost all at a higher bitrate than 128 (mostly 160 or 192 depending on how important it is), so 6.11GB. But I still bought a mini. I think it fits my needs just right. I don't NEED all my music with me, 750 songs or so is qute adequate. The iPod mini is smaller, it's made of metal, and most of all it's PINK!