More Apple Netbook Rumors Pinpoint Foxconn as Manufacturer

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/20/more-apple-netbook-rumors-pinpoint-foxconn-as-manufacturer/)

The Inquirer recaps (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/835/1051835/apple-netbooks-manufactured-foxconn-rumoured) the latest netbook rumors coming out of the Commercial Times. The Chinese-language publication is citing sources from within the component supply chain that Apple has already signed a netbook deal with Foxconn: These are whispering that Cupertino has sealed the deal with contract electronics manufacturer Hon Hai Precision Industry - or Foxconn - to bang out Apple netbooks.Netbooks have been a hot topic in the computing industry as much of the recent sales growth has been attributed to the inexpensive portable devices.

Apple has so far resisted the release of such a device and has publicly denied interest in the market. Rumors, however, persist that Apple is planning a 10" netbook with a possible touch screen (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/09/touch-panels-for-apple-netbook-ordered/). If Apple does release such a device, it's unlikely to be priced in-line with currently shipping netbooks from other manufacturers which can run in the (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/24/inexpensive-atom-powered-netbooks-popular-at-launch/) $400-$600 range. During a previous Q&A session, Apple has said (http://www.macrumors.com/2008/10/21/apple-reports-1-14-billion-profit-for-q4-2008/) that "[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

Article Link: More Apple Netbook Rumors Pinpoint Foxconn as Manufacturer (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/20/more-apple-netbook-rumors-pinpoint-foxconn-as-manufacturer/)

[kymac]

heres to hoping that this will be reasonably priced and worth it.

[cleanup]

If it's priced more than current netbooks, then it just becomes a slightly-cheaper MacBook, and then begins treading the price range of some very decent full-featured PC laptops near the $900-1000 price range. Not sure if Apple can pull this one off unless they shave their profit margins. It would sell quite a bit then.

[amac4me]

If all these rumors (in the aggregate) over the past few months are true, I would hope that this product is demo'd at WWDC this June.

[iSamurai]

...the inexpensive portable devices.

...[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

1. yeah, the word "inexpensive", AKA "cheap". cheap is crucial for netbooks. if it were bloody expensive it would be a shrinked macbook air.


2. don't know? well it's never too late to start learning. and a $500 computer is a piece of junk? well there's a lot of people out there who love this kinda "piece of junk". (apple apple, put aside your ego) ;) $500 computers aren't junk, ya know... junk is like junk food, things you find in the dust bin, etc.

[adrian.oconnor]

Hmmm. It would be interesting to see something that is 2 to 3 times the size of an iPod touch. If it could make use of a bluetooth keyboard and mouse (or even better, a bluetooth keyboard with trackpad), it'd be the perfect computer for the typical living room, even if it kept the iPhone OS. With the touch screen, it'd be beautifully portable and great to pick up and quickly get on the web.

Does anybody know how the tech behind the iPhone's multi-touch screen scales? I'll admit that I've done zero research, but I'm pretty sure that making touch screens larger gets quite tricky due to capacitance laws and what-not.

I'd be really quite excited by this, if it turns out to be true. My confidence in this rumour is, however, very low.

[Island Dog]

Netbook would be awesome, but I tend to think it will be way overpriced.

[JavaWizKid]

10" touchscreen would be very nice but Apple may make the price very high and not be a very competitive competitor in todays market.

[dannyboi83]

If apple did make a 10" touch screen it would not be made to compete against these products, It would be in a league of its own. I can't see people actually considering a 10" apple netbook, or a cheap one from say Acer, the price differece would be so large that it would never compare.

[h.21]

Maybe they figured out how to make this device cheaply. Having a phone company subsidize it is one obvious way. I've always wondered why there isn't a WWAN option on MacBooks, maybe the time has come for it.

[chabig]

Not sure if Apple can pull this one off unless they shave their profit margins. It would sell quite a bit then.

They should give it away for free and make up the difference in volume!

[phelix_da_kat]

I do not think Apple will make an actually netbook as we know it: ie cheap, low powered, email/internet machine.

They may aim for something between an iPhone/iTouch and a Macbook.
Ie something that is 10" akin to a Netbook, but it will be a premium product that will differentiate it from the Apple lineup and something that a user wants that is over and above the standard netbook - to be inline with the higher price.

I think a Pro/tablet type machine is likely.
- touch screen..
- BT keyboard (to keep the accessory sales up_
- some new sync software, maybe a new tab via iTunes to sync "folders" of docs etc.
- more like a companion, rather than a dedicated item.

The new mac will not be competing with netbooks nor its own lineup.

[psxndc]

They should give it away for free and make up the difference in volume!

People ask us all the time, how do you make money doing this? The answer is simple: volume.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4253/saturday-night-live-first-citywide-change-bank-2

[WLS]

Hmmm. It would be interesting to see something that is 2 to 3 times the size of an iPod touch. If it could make use of a bluetooth keyboard and mouse (or even better, a bluetooth keyboard with trackpad), it'd be the perfect computer for the typical living room, even if it kept the iPhone OS. With the touch screen, it'd be beautifully portable and great to pick up and quickly get on the web.

Does anybody know how the tech behind the iPhone's multi-touch screen scales? I'll admit that I've done zero research, but I'm pretty sure that making touch screens larger gets quite tricky due to capacitance laws and what-not.

I'd be really quite excited by this, if it turns out to be true. My confidence in this rumour is, however, very low.

Yea I have to think it will be more Touch based then notebook. A smaller device then a MBA will have to be part of the Itunes Apps business model for Apple to consider it. There is no profit for Apple in a netbook but they could make money on a tablet with the iphone/touch OS with Itunes and using an Arm cortex processor . The Apps store is the key to making money off this for Apple

[Saladinos]

A normal laptop made for $500 will be a piece of junk. A mini laptop made for $500 can be phenomenal.

[psxndc]

Maybe they figured out how to make this device cheaply. Having a phone company subsidize it is one obvious way. I've always wondered why there isn't a WWAN option on MacBooks, maybe the time has come for it.

^^^ This. The iPhone unsubsidized is $700. If this thing is - and I hope it will be - an improved/bigger iPhone, it will need to be subsidized or else it's going to get into MacBook pricing. I'd love a 10" tablet device with a 3G wireless built in. Heck, I'd love a 10" iPhone.

[talkingfuture]

I think that Apple themselves realize just how over priced it will be for a Netbook, this is why it will have that extra twist (perhaps a touchscreen) that makes it seem worth it.

[fletch33]

last year i sold my blackbook about 2 months before the official announcement of the new macbooks knowing that i was going to get a lot more money for mine if it was the latest model and not the older model and it worked.

while i was waiting for the new macbook release i purchased 3 of the most popular netbooks that were out. the Aspire One 7", EEC PC 1000h 10", and the MSI Wind U100 10". they all 3 had the Atom 1.6 in them and i took them all to their max ram which was 1.5 for the Acer and 2GB for the EEC and Wind. I also gave them all 250GB drives.

they worked great. i had them dual booting XP and another OS that we are not supposed to talk about here and they ran them both great. that little Atom 1.6 is a great processor and overclocked it was even better.

i will refer to the Wind below because that was my favorite.

i personally did not see much difference in everyday performance with my blackbook and my Wind and the Wind got 6 hours battery life. i was able to run photoshop, iLife, etc...

the wind not only performed well but felt like it was made well and only cost me $399 plus my upgrades to a larger HDD and memory which probably had me at about the $500 mark in it.

i had a great looking screen. great performance, wireless N, bluetooth, 3 USB ports that were nicely spaced apart for plugging in multiple USB device (unlike my Alum Macbook which has 2 and they are to close together), standard VGA out (no adapter needed), 2 card readers, and kick butt battery life.

if MSI can do all of this for $399 then Apple should be able to pull it off as well.

it of course will have to be more like $599 since it is Apple and will look cooler and have the Apple logo on it.

i found that my Wind hooked to an apple keyboard and mouse and then to a 19" monitor while i was at work did everything i needed and as well as my blackbook.

the netbook market is for the average user which is 80% of people buying computers. they want the internet, itunes, email, and maybe some photo editing/ saving options.

i hope Apple makes the move and does it with t price point that makes it competitive.

i have since sold all of the netbooks and got the aluminum macbook LOL but thats only because i am addicted to having the latest apple laptop as silly as that is :)

[Lepton]

Hmmm. It would be interesting to see something that is 2 to 3 times the size of an iPod touch. If it could make use of a bluetooth keyboard and mouse (or even better, a bluetooth keyboard with trackpad), it'd be the perfect computer for the typical living room, even if it kept the iPhone OS. With the touch screen, it'd be beautifully portable and great to pick up and quickly get on the web.Exactly. I call it the NetPad, and my detailed vision of it is here (http://www.myallo.com/blog/2008/12/apples-next-new-device/)!

[iMacmatician]

If all these rumors (in the aggregate) over the past few months are true, I would hope that this product is demo'd at WWDC this June.That's not too far a prediction.

Yea I have to think it will be more Touch based then notebook. A smaller device then a MBA will have to be part of the Itunes Apps business model for Apple to consider it. There is no profit for Apple in a netbook but they could make money on a tablet with the iphone/touch OS with Itunes and using an Arm cortex processor . The Apps store is the key to making money off this for AppleYup. Plus I think a mini-tablet would be cheaper than a smaller MacBook Air with touchscreen?

^^^ This. The iPhone unsubsidized is $700. If this thing is - and I hope it will be - an improved/bigger iPhone, it will need to be subsidized or else it's going to get into MacBook pricing.Why does everybody forget that the 32 GB iPod touch is $399?

[RGunner]

".... run in the $400-$600 range"

This is not necessarily true, most netbooks are $200-400, making it a very difficult task for Apple to match.

[JonHimself]

I think if we assume whatever this product is will cost around $1000.00 (800-1200) then we'll lessen the disappointment many will feel (not me, if it's $1000, that's $1000 less than the macbook air which I'll be buying otherwise)

[psxndc]

Why does everybody forget that the 32 GB iPod touch is $399?

Mmmmm.... good point. But for it to be worth it to me, I'd need the 3G connectivity.

[Bonte]

A '10 iPod touch with a USB slot for $500 and i'm in, the need for a appstore is a small trade-in most people are willing to take. They would sell millionzzz, more than the current ipod Touch.

[fletch33]

".... run in the $400-$600 range"

This is not necessarily true, most netbooks are $200-400, making it a very difficult task for Apple to match.

i guess it really depends on what you are talking about when you say "netbook"

below are examples of what i would want in a netbook:

EEC PC 1000HE
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220505)

EEC PC EPCS101 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220507)

HP Mini (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834147969)

Samsung N110 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834131033)

with an average price range of $450 and some of the extremely nice ones that i didnt list are 500-600.

the $200-$400 range is now the lower featured models and Apple would not need to compete with those in my opinion but instead go after the better models.

[pcorajr]

How Pathetic. "we don't know how to make a netbook for 500 with out it being junk" in other words.

I can understand if you where making a full featured laptop for 500, that would be junk. But a netbook for more than 500 dollars? Get a clue Apple. we are not asking for you to shrink down a Macbook and fit it in a 10" formfactor. We are asking for a netbook, a computer to surf the internet check e-mail and do light word processing.

[iMacmatician]

Mmmmm.... good point. But for it to be worth it to me, I'd need the 3G connectivity.Good point too. Hopefully 3G comes as an option.

An interesting tidbit from the report:

The rumours come at a time when speculation is rife about Apple introducing a new multimedia device to take up an intermediary niche between the Iphone and Mac notebooks. Apple is keeping tight lipped about its plans, issuing a terse "no comment", but the word on the Asian streets is that the device will be some sort of 10-inch touch screen netbook.

Whispers suggest Apple will attempt to market the device as a portable gadget for reading e-books, connecting to the Interwarble and watching films.

[Bonte]

Why does everybody forget that the 32 GB iPod touch is $399?

Pricing hasn't changed for over a decade, at least it feels like that long. Apple kept it high because there is no competition, don't want to lower the value and maybe to make room for a bigger version.

A 16 GB tablet Touch for $500 is more than realistic IMHO.

[kas23]

2. don't know? well it's never too late to start learning. and a $500 computer is a piece of junk? well there's a lot of people out there who love this kinda "piece of junk". (apple apple, put aside your ego) ;) $500 computers aren't junk, ya know... junk is like junk food, things you find in the dust bin, etc.

As you point out, this was a very arrogant thing for Apple to say on many levels. There is no such thing as a netbook that is "junk". What they should have said it that they could not produce a quality netbook with their current expected profit margin. And if they can't do that, well learn or your just showing you unwillingness to change (not unlike GM).

On a different note, this netbook better run a full-fledged OS (OS X) with full capabilities to load ANY 3rd party programs, have user accessible storage space, and not be dependent on a laptop/desktop for syncing if I'm going to drop over $500.

[edesignuk]

It'll probably be priced in the Vaio P area, >£700 :( :rolleyes:

[mj6252]

if with anything I can imagine a bigger iPod touch, that's probably why they are launching better marketing stuff for the developer, they made a big fortune selling apps anyways (both developer and Apple)

if it's not gonna be ridiculously priced, I won't mind buying one...

[Bonte]

On a different note, this netbook better run a full-fledged OS (OS X) with full capabilities to load ANY 3rd party programs, have user accessible storage space, and not be dependent on a laptop/desktop for syncing if I'm going to drop over $500.

Even the Macbook Air ($1700) doesn't have these capabilities and you want it on a $500 netbook? A less expensive Air and a cheap tablet iPod would cover most areas but still won't be perfect for everybody, as always.

[magamo]

If Apple releases a shrunk MacBook Air, I'm sold. It would rekindle the same-thing-at-half-the-price flame war on the internet, though.

[The Flashing Fi]

A 10" touchscreen netbook for a price between 500-700 bucks wouldn't be bad to be honest. But if there is no touch screen and if the pricing isn't even close to that of other netbooks, then I won't even consider Apple, because the only things netbooks are good for is word processing, e-mail checking and Internet, which ANY operating system is capable of, which would make Linux a good choice.

[pale9]

Of course, all is speculation at this point because nobody knows if this product is really coming and what features it will have. But lets just assume its around 10" and has a touch screen and some other bells and whistles.

The is NO WAY Apple can or will sell this for the price of a Ausus 1000, and why should it?

My guess it will cost between $700 and $800... Wagers anyone?

PS No touch screen would be a deal breaker for me.

[twoodcc]

can't wait for this! though it will be around $700-$800 though

[gnasher729]

Mmmmm.... good point. But for it to be worth it to me, I'd need the 3G connectivity.

In the UK, 3G connectivity via USB stick costs £30 plus pay-as-you-go fees.

[Goona]

How Pathetic. "we don't know how to make a netbook for 500 with out it being junk" in other words.

I can understand if you where making a full featured laptop for 500, that would be junk. But a netbook for more than 500 dollars? Get a clue Apple. we are not asking for you to shrink down a Macbook and fit it in a 10" formfactor. We are asking for a netbook, a computer to surf the internet check e-mail and do light word processing.

Dude they said they don't know how to make a 500 dollar computer, what is wrong with that, they can't make enough money off a 500 dollar computer to satisfy their margins, why don't you go tell the likes of Dell to make a 100 dollar computer and see what they tell you. Every company has the lowest price they will go to.

[DELLsFan]

..."[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

Actually, they do. It's called the iPhone (a computer that happens to be able to make and receive cellular calls).

And besides, I'm quite sure Apple could sell a quality computer for far less than $500 - as long as they were willing to seriously "Think Different" about their margins, advertising, and long term market share. :rolleyes:

Am I the only one who would really rather Cupertino stopped saying what they can't do and focus on what they can? If anyone could do this with style, it's Apple!

[RaZaK]

It would be cool to see how Uncle Stevie and the rest of the Apple team improve on the Netbook concept.

If they make it more expensive than $500, though, I don't know if they'll see the kind of ROI that will justify offering a new model.

[linuxophile]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/20/more-apple-netbook-rumors-pinpoint-foxconn-as-manufacturer/)
....
"[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

Article Link: More Apple Netbook Rumors Pinpoint Foxconn as Manufacturer (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/20/more-apple-netbook-rumors-pinpoint-foxconn-as-manufacturer/)


What do they mean? Take the ipot touch internals (250) and place it with a 10'' screen and a keyboard. use a hd instead of ssd to keep price down.
I bet they can easily make something as thin as a mba for 500$.

They are full of themselves, they just want to make it LOOK difficult.

[Chupa Chupa]

Keep in mind that it's "us," the rumor sites, and the MSM that are calling this unannounced/unconfirmed product a "netbook." Apple has maintained that it has no intention of entering the netbook market, only that it has some ideas on how to make one "right."

IF the rumors are true I'd be willing to bet that Apple won't be calling it a netbook, and, in fact, it will probably better resemble a sub-note convertible. It will be small, lightweight, but powerful. It will be what the MBA could have, should have been in the first place.

[pcorajr]

Why the hell are people so asphyxiated on this touch screen ****? Touch works great on devices like the iphone and MAYBE a tablet. But so far the market for tables is very small and targeted at Design and Health providers. Touch Screens are good for fastfood restaurants. The Netbook market is booming and has more potential for profit making.

[skate71290]

i would love a 8-10 inch MacTouch/Tablet style thingy with a full operating system... a company does something similar to this (forgot the name) where you trade in ur current macbook/pro and receive a touch screen laptop, its only in America, and its still not Apple, would be great to see glass screen front (like iphone or new unibody macbooks and a black imac style backing to it with ports of the side (minimum like usb, display adaptor, charger, possible disc drive?) cant wait for WWDC so much new stuff apparently coming out :eek:

[Chupa Chupa]

What do they mean? Take the ipot touch

Oh boy. Freudian slip?

[gnasher729]

As you point out, this was a very arrogant thing for Apple to say on many levels.

Apple is arrogant. If Apple wasn't arrogant, they would be a tiny seller of me-too PCs or more likely, they would be out of business altogether.

There is no such thing as a netbook that is "junk".
Spelling check: You wrote "is junk" when you meant "isn't junk".

What they should have said it that they could not produce a quality netbook with their current expected profit margin. And if they can't do that, well learn or your just showing you unwillingness to change (not unlike GM).

Apple has a different notion of "quality" then you seem to have (see point 1). I think Apple would be quite capable of building a netbook that isn't worse than everybody else's for a tiny bit of profit. But why would they? There are markets that you better just stay out of. What you call "netbooks" is a market that Apple doesn't want to join. They will create their own market if they can, and they won't if they can't, but Apple will never follow.

Why the hell are people so asphyxiated on this touch screen ****? Touch works great on devices like the iphone and MAYBE a tablet. But so far the market for tables is very small and targeted at Design and healt providers. Touch Screens are good for fastfood restaurants. The Netbook market is booming and has more potential for profit making.

The market for portable music players was very small when Apple entered it. Such a market has huge potential for profit. The netbook market is full of competitors all aiming at the lowest possible price. There is nobody in that market making a decent profit.

[polaris20]

".... run in the $400-$600 range"

This is not necessarily true, most netbooks are $200-400, making it a very difficult task for Apple to match.

The cheapest netbook I could find that wasn't a refurb or open box was an Asus with a nearly useless 12GB SSD drive for $280.

[linuxophile]

Oh boy. Freudian slip?

LOL!
I wrote that!

Ah.

The iPotty Touch....

[Chupa Chupa]

Why the hell are people so asphyxiated on this touch screen ****? Touch works great on devices like the iphone and MAYBE a tablet. But so far the market for tables is very small and targeted at Design and healt providers. Touch Screens are good for fastfood restaurants. The Netbook market is booming and has more potential for profit making.

Yes, but the teeny tiny trackpads on netbooks/sub-notes are nearly useless unless you have ant leg sized fingers. A touch pad would be a huge boost to i/o productivity in this case, especially when traveling where the extra weight/clutter of a mouse defeats the purpose of a netbook.

[uaecasher]

why don't they make a low spec computer? I mean it's telling the customer that this is a computer that can't do heavy load, + if HP computer can run vista i think then it should run os x just fine as it need less resources spicily with snow leopard coming

[polaris20]

There is no such thing as a netbook that is "junk".


Sure there is. The Asus 1000H. It is cheaply built, and feels like a toy. The entire keyboard flexes when you type. It's a very disappointing machine, especially given its cost at the time ($400).

[Sabon]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/20/more-apple-netbook-rumors-pinpoint-foxconn-as-manufacturer/)Apple has so far resisted the release of such a device and has publicly denied interest in the market.

Let me fix that for you. So far Apple has refused to make a pathetic piece of **** device that cannot do what Steve Jobs feels a basic device should be able to do.

I think that is a better headline and a LOT more accurate.

Think of cell phones and smart phones and then look at the iPhone. Anything that Apple would put out in the netbook market is going to, a VERY MINIMUM, have that big of a jump in quality and usability. PS: I've always hate the bloody blackberry and Palm keyboards on their devices. Once you are used to something and accept it, it is always hard to change. Thank goodness I always hated them. Is the keyboard on the iPhone/iTouch great? Well it doesn't suck as much the bb and Palm's do. And at least it isn't locked into one format like physical keyboards are.

My hope for the closest thing to a netbook that Apple comes out with is an iTouch type product that is twice the width which folds in half and turns on automatically when you open it. There should be ZERO on/off switches. If it is open, it is on. Closed, low power mode).

As for the unit and the screens, it should not be a ugly piece of **** that the Nitindo DSs are. They look like they were designed in the 70s and released only when the screens could fit.

The screens should appear to be one screen. You should have to squint to see the second screen as it opens up. It should react as one screen. For all intensive purposes, when it is opened it should be exactly as if it didn't open. It should look and act like one screen and be exactly like the iPhone/iTouch but with a bigger screen and a faster processor.

You should be able to do everything that you can do with the Mac Mini. I'm not joking and I don't think Steve Jobs jokes when he is in meetings either. Not with something like this.

I think he has made it very clear to people that work at Apple. It is either a computer (minimum Mac mini capabilities) or it won't be a computer in that vane at all. Instead it will be a large iTouch.

I would like to be able to connect a wireless bluetooth keyboard (and maybe mouse) to it. This is different than having a physical keyboard for bb and Palms. I can two finger type on those but I can touch type on a full size keyboard at 70+ wpm. Not even close.

Oh, and the last thing it will NEVER be. One of this poorly designed tablet pcs. There is a market for maybe 50,000 of those things. The people where I work (over 10,000 person company) that you would think should love them, HATE them. We have them from multiple companies and nobody has gotten them right. The biggest problem? Microsoft and Windows. They apparently need several more years to come close to getting Windows ready for these things.

As for the price of a Netbook from Apple. Look at the pricing for the iPhone and iTouch and Mac Mini. Anyone thinking this is coming out less than 7-800 dollars is thinking wrong. Look at the Mac Book Air. This thing, if it exists and is coming out at all, could be over $1,000.

[TheSlush]

My prediction is that Apple will leverage their significant investments in multi-touch by releasing a tablet that will potentially do several things:

- compete for the netbook audience
- expand multi-touch as a computing interface
- bolster the struggling print publishing industry by offering a product (tablet) and infrastructure (iTunes store) to revitalize yet another industry that is struggling with the digitization and demonetization of their product. (See iPod, music industry.)

[armoguy94]

The baseline iMac probably costs $500 to make. Steve Jobs was talking BS out of his butt when he said "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that is not a piece of junk." He said that because it makes macs look even better that they are so expensive and overly priced.

And the whole point of a Netbook is to purchase it CHEAP, and they are popular now because of the awful economy. I'm doubtful that Apple will make this Netbook cheap.

[Chupa Chupa]

The cheapest netbook I could find that wasn't a refurb or open box was an Asus with a nearly useless 12GB SSD drive for $280.

I have a Lenovo S10 1GB/160GB HD which cost me $309 shipped after Live Search cash back. It's a decent machine though the keyboard sucks and the trackpad buttons are little stiff. The trackpad is multi-touch on the PC side, though I don't boot that up too often.

In my netbook research I've found plenty of decently equipped machines under $350.

[iMacmatician]

What do they mean? Take the ipot touch internals (250) and place it with a 10'' screen and a keyboard. use a hd instead of ssd to keep price down.
I bet they can easily make something as thin as a mba for 500$.

They are full of themselves, they just want to make it LOOK difficult.I think they are talking about a full-fledged computer with Mac OS X.

why don't they make a low spec computer? I mean it's telling the customer that this is a computer that can't do heavy load, + if HP computer can run vista i think then it should run os x just fine as it need less resources spicily with snow leopard comingSystem requirements for Snow Leopard dev builds aren't less than Leopard release's (unless things have changed since WWDC 2008).

[pcorajr]

The market for portable music players was very small when Apple entered it. Such a market has huge potential for profit. The netbook market is full of competitors all aiming at the lowest possible price. There is nobody in that market making a decent profit.

Right because unless apple makes more than 50% on each device then is not worth it. And in Apples eye such device would be Junk.

The cellphone market was full of even more competitors yet Apple managed to release a product that was years ahead of anything currently available.

They can do that with the netbook with out having to charge an arm and a leg. They just gotta make sure they do not cannibalize Mackbook sales.

[pcorajr]

Yes, but the teeny tiny trackpads on netbooks/sub-notes are nearly useless unless you have ant leg sized fingers. A touch pad would be a huge boost to i/o productivity in this case, especially when traveling where the extra weight/clutter of a mouse defeats the purpose of a netbook.

Its a freaking netbook people. Do not over engineer a netbook. Of course use the same track pad you use on the mackbook./pro with no need for a button you will have a larger tracking surface.

[iMacmatician]

My hope for the closest thing to a netbook that Apple comes out with is an iTouch type product that is twice the width which folds in half and turns on automatically when you open it. There should be ZERO on/off switches. If it is open, it is on. Closed, low power mode). That makes perfect sense.

It should look and act like one screen and be exactly like the iPhone/iTouch but with a bigger screen and a faster processor.Plus more RAM and more flash storage.

[BBCWatcher]

Touchscreen, check, but will it also have a keyboard? How about something really clever, like an optional detachable Bluetooth keyboard that snaps on top of the screen and has a little battery that charges along with the rest of the machine?

I doubt Apple is going to want to use a 32-bit Intel Atom CPU, since that would unnecessarily prolong 32-bit support in their operating system. If Apple is going to use an Atom, it'll be a new 64-bit netbook flavor of the chip, special delivery from Intel. The 64-bit Atom (a slight variant of the 2 GHz Atom Z550) will be paired with the NVIDIA Ion chipset, to boost things like video support.

I'm going to guess a final price point of $739, plus $60 for the optional keyboard.

[uaecasher]

I think they are talking about a full-fledged computer with Mac OS X.

System requirements for Snow Leopard dev builds aren't less than Leopard release's (unless things have changed since WWDC 2008).

they have clearly said in the Snow Leopard (http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/) page:

"Snow Leopard dramatically reduces the footprint of Mac OS X, making it even more efficient for users, and giving them back valuable hard drive space for their music and photos."

[Chupa Chupa]

The baseline iMac probably costs $500 to make. Steve Jobs was talking BS out of his butt when he said "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that is not a piece of junk." He said that because it makes macs look even better that they are so expensive and overly priced.

And the whole point of a Netbook is to purchase it CHEAP, and they are popular now because of the awful economy. I'm doubtful that Apple will make this Netbook cheap.


Not true at all. Apple can't built a decent $500 that retains a 25-30% profit margin. Such a machine would have to cost them $250 before taxes, marketing, distribution and other expenses.

I'd also disagree that Macs, in general, are overpriced. They are more expensive, but then again the build quality and user experience of a $1000 iMac is superior to that of a $1000 Dell or HP. There is a 30% or so premium on Macs just as there is a 100% premium on BMW 328 compared to a Chevy Malibu. I don't think the BMW 328 is overpriced either, it's just a superior product with a better engine and build quality.

[JonHimself]

They can do that with the netbook with out having to charge an arm and a leg. They just gotta make sure they do not cannibalize Mackbook sales.


and that is why people will complain... I get the impression that people want this product to REPLACE another (ie a macbook) but I think that whatever they come out with with COMPLEMENT (complIment?) a person who has another computer (likely a desktop). I think that Apple might cripple the device OR just create a device that won't completely replace a macbook.
From a logical point of view, they won't be a fully-functional ultra-portable or else it will cut into macbook air sales (sure they appeal to different people, but there is a segment that would buy the macbook air because it's portable regardless of price.. if there is another option, even at 1000-1200 they'd buy that instead) and they likely won't make a fully functional laptop at the $800 point because that would cut into macbook sales.

Of course I could be wrong, but I just think they're going to fill a gap around $1000 that will let you browse the web, e-mail, IM, and likely run iLife apps (but not Aperture, Adobe CS, etc). If they can create a computer that price you can get a mac mini and whatever this is for the price of a top-end macbook or base model macbook pro (give or take a couple hundred).

[diabolic]

10" touchscreen would be very nice but Apple may make the price very high and not be a very competitive competitor in todays market.

A 10" touchscreen device combined with an app store would create its own market.

The netbook crowd won't like what Apple ends up selling, and it won't matter.

[jmpage2]

Maybe Apple shouldn't post childish ads about PCs locking up (something they hardly ever do these days) when their own $2000 top of the line iMac with a higher end GPU is freezing up left and right.

[iMacmatician]

they have clearly said in the Snow Leopard (http://www.apple.com/macosx/snowleopard/) page:

"Snow Leopard dramatically reduces the footprint of Mac OS X, making it even more efficient for users, and giving them back valuable hard drive space for their music and photos."Apparently that's just for iLife apps.

[TheSlush]

Maybe Apple shouldn't post childish ads about PCs locking up (something they hardly ever do these days) when their own $2000 top of the line iMac with a higher end GPU is freezing up left and right.

I think this is another thread?

[pcorajr]

and that is why people will complain... I get the impression that people want this product to REPLACE another (ie a macbook) but I think that whatever they come out with with COMPLEMENT (complIment?) a person who has another computer (likely a desktop). I think that Apple might cripple the device OR just create a device that won't completely replace a macbook.
From a logical point of view, they won't be a fully-functional ultra-portable or else it will cut into macbook air sales (sure they appeal to different people, but there is a segment that would buy the macbook air because it's portable regardless of price.. if there is another option, even at 1000-1200 they'd buy that instead) and they likely won't make a fully functional laptop at the $800 point because that would cut into macbook sales.

Of course I could be wrong, but I just think they're going to fill a gap around $1000 that will let you browse the web, e-mail, IM, and likely run iLife apps (but not Aperture, Adobe CS, etc). If they can create a computer that price you can get a mac mini and whatever this is for the price of a top-end macbook or base model macbook pro (give or take a couple hundred).

I totally agree. Best way of crippling a device like this is with storage. Make them solid state. make a device that can have about 8 to 16 GB of storage, 1 GB of system ram. Ilife applications support. Let the user access their iphoto library from their desktop.

The main thing 5that I am looking for here is a portable computer for me to check my e-mail and surf the net.

Obviously Apple could market the netbook as being the fastest booting netbook out there. How about some instant on love?

[Goona]

I think this is another thread?

The latest ad really has the PC fanboys up in arms, they dont even know where to post.

[Sehnsucht]

As for the unit and the screens, it should not be a ugly piece of **** that the Nintendo DSs are. They look like they were designed in the '70s and released only when the screens could fit.

Never thought about it that way, but it's pretty true. I don't know if it's just that I'm used to iPod touch/iPhone eye-candy, but seeing the low-resolution screens on the DS can be pretty startling at times. I was hoping that the DSi would have much higher screen resolution, but no. Same huge pixels as before. :rolleyes:

Oh, and the last thing it will NEVER be. One of these poorly-designed tablet PCs. There is a market for maybe 50,000 of those things. The people where I work (over 10,000 person company) that you would think should love them, HATE them. We have them from multiple companies and nobody has gotten them right. The biggest problem? Microsoft and Windows. They apparently need several more years to come close to getting Windows ready for these things.

That's exactly what I hear from people who have to use them for work. They always tell me that a tablet PC with a stylus looks cool and is fun to use the first time, but it quickly turns into a PITA when you have to use it every day. Same goes for many of those smaller PDAs with styluses. But I don't think it's the form factor that's the problem, no not at all. I've always said that Apple should ignore the netbook thing and go for a full-sized, full-power Mac tablet that you can run "normal" apps on. Hey, Apple perfected the touch-screen handset, so they could certainly do the same with a tablet PC (or in this case, a tablet Mac.) ;)

[AidenShaw]

If Apple releases a shrunk MacBook Air, I'm sold. It would rekindle the same-thing-at-half-the-price flame war on the internet, though.

Re-Kindle - superb joke. If the new thingie isn't a netbook, I'd expect that it's an Ipod Touch blown up to e-reader size.


A 10" touchscreen device combined with an app store would create its own market.

App-store would be the kiss of death for a "netbook", but not for an e-reader.

A netbook should run Photoshop, Ilife, and all the other full OSX applications.

[iMacmatician]

Obviously Apple could market the netbook as being the fastest booting netbook out there. How about some instant on love?In addition to the world's thinnest netbook…

The latest ad really has the PC fanboys up in arms, they dont even know where to post.They're probably just trying to post anywhere and everywhere.

[colmaclean]

I find it hard to believe a tablet/touchscreen device would run full Max OS. As has been stated by Apple, in order to provide a quality user experience, reaction times for touchscreens need to be almost instantaneous.

Imagine working a tablet (atom processor?) running full Mac OS with many apps opened - it's not gonna be too responsive. The iPhone OS allows the system more control over how many apps the user has open, and thus will not get bogged down and unresponsive.

[Sabon]

The baseline iMac probably costs $500 to make. Steve Jobs was talking BS out of his butt when he said "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that is not a piece of junk." He said that because it makes macs look even better that they are so expensive and overly priced.

And the whole point of a Netbook is to purchase it CHEAP, and they are popular now because of the awful economy. I'm doubtful that Apple will make this Netbook cheap.

Look at the price of the iPhones (taking into consideration the FULL price and not the subsidized price), the iTouch, and the Mac Mini. Based on these, what do you think the price is going to be. My guess is not lower than any of these.

[Anuba]

Apple has said that "[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk
Nonsense. They know exactly how to make a $500 piece of junk, the difference is that they also know how to stick a $1000 pricetag on it.

[Quixotic3]

This is Apple's chance to add another piece of hardware to your growing collection. I think that rather than limit the function that it has i.e.: netbook it should build upon or integrate with your current macs and technology needs... this is what I mean, if they added an infrared port that enabled you to send signals to your home AV equipment and had the ability to send signals to x-10 or home automation equipment with the inclusion of the touch screen it would be the best remote control on the market that would be fully programable, who wouldn't buy it? An iSight camera could allow for video ichat in a much more portable device than the laptop ... this would appeal to the kids out there that currently text this will help grow the market share. In addition with software like delicious library the isight could be used as a portable barcode scanner to create libraries of your DVD's or an inventory of your tools or even a shopping list that could have the groceries waiting for you at the supermarket. The back to my mac functions mean that the main storage can be on your home computer that you can now access from anywhere thanks to the new time capsule or airport software so it does not need a large hard drive and can use a 8-32 Gb ssd. The tablet could be used as a tablet for photoshop with the addition of a stylus or even a mouse replacement if used as a big trackpad. If the tablet had a dock it could be used as a second screen for dashboard or even rss feeds. It would make a much better e-reader than anything out there. I think that this is the approach that Steve will make when he introduces it upon his return... Much like the iphone when it came out... it is so much more than a netbook and we will have to pay for it. I know that if it had the features listed above I surely will.

[DS Flyer]

I think if we assume whatever this product is will cost around $1000.00 (800-1200) then we'll lessen the disappointment many will feel (not me, if it's $1000, that's $1000 less than the macbook air which I'll be buying otherwise)

I think it should be cheaper but the low range MAY be $800 and priced up to $1500; wouldn't surprise me at all.

[iMacmatician]

Never thought about it that way, but it's pretty true. I don't know if it's just that I'm used to iPod touch/iPhone eye-candy, but seeing the low-resolution screens on the DS can be pretty startling at times. I was hoping that the DSi would have much higher screen resolution, but no. Same huge pixels as before. :rolleyes:Am I right in saying that my graphing calculator's display is worse? Similar size to the iPod touch, 160x240 resolution. :rolleyes:

To me, anything better than that isn't bad at all. :D

[MrCrowbar]

I find it hard to believe a tablet/touchscreen device would run full Max OS. As has been stated by Apple, in order to provide a quality user experience, reaction times for touchscreens need to be almost instantaneous.

Imagine working a tablet (atom processor?) running full Mac OS with many apps opened - it's not gonna be too responsive. The iPhone OS allows the system more control over how many apps the user has open, and thus will not get bogged down and unresponsive.

Leopard runs quite well on 1.6 GHz Atom Netbooks (Seen it on a MSI Wind, not bad at all). But as someone said in here, the Atom is 32 bit and I doubt Apple wants to support 32 bit architectures with Snow Leopard. If you take a low power Core 2 CPU with low clock speed (think Macbbook Air) and a reasonable graphics chip (think Geforce 9400M) and just have a huge battery (same tech as on the 17" Macbook Pro), you got yourself a pretty useful and responsive tablet.

I can actually imagine a thin 10" netbook with a touchscreen instead of the keyboard and trackpad. It won't be much worse than your average netbook keyboard with the too small keys and you have a reasonable tracking surface for surfing.

You can actually type reasonably fast on a touch keyboard if it's designed well. Standard sized keyboards are good for touch typing, but those huge ergo keyboards are even better. There's always some compromise with size.

[Sabon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabon
It should look and act like one screen and be exactly like the iPhone/iTouch but with a bigger screen and a faster processor.
Plus more RAM and more flash storage.[QUOTE=iMacmatician;7491953]That makes perfect sense.

You are right iMacmatician. I should have said more RAM. Hmmm, will they add flash storage when it isn't on the Macbook?

[guzhogi]

I really doubt Apple will ship a $500-600 Netboot. I've often heard that Apple wants to be the Porsche of computers: high class, high quality, high costs. If they were to build a cheap/inexpensive computer for that range, that would ruin their image. Look at the Mac Min i and how long it goes between updates.

Also, I think Apple fears it'll cannibalize sales of its other computers. I've heard in different threads and computer magazines that Netbooks are really selling these days. If that's true & Apple makes a competitive netbook (something in the price range of other netbooks), I can see the other Macs sales going down. I remember in 1996-97 when we had the clones hearing how that stopped because the clones were severely cannibalizing Apple's computers. And kinda rightfully so: Power Computing was selling a 225 MHz Mac while Apple was stuck at 200 MHz.

[iMacmatician]

You are right iMacmatician. I should have said more RAM. Hmmm, will they add flash storage when it isn't on the Macbook?The iPhone and iPod touch have flash.

[danny_w]

Apple has so far resisted the release of such a device and has publicly denied interest in the market.
Apple has done this numerous times before. They vehemently denied any interest in a video iPod right up until the release of such, saying nobody would be interested in video on such a small screen. They denied they were working on a phone right up until the announcement of the iPhone. Is it time to repleat history? I seriously doubt however that it will be released at anywhere near the current netbook prices.

[iTattoo]

This is Apple's chance to add another piece of hardware to your growing collection. I think that rather than limit the function that it has i.e.: netbook it should build upon or integrate with your current macs and technology needs... this is what I mean, if they added an infrared port that enabled you to send signals to your home AV equipment and had the ability to send signals to x-10 or home automation equipment with the inclusion of the touch screen it would be the best remote control on the market that would be fully programable, who wouldn't buy it? An iSight camera could allow for video ichat in a much more portable device than the laptop ... this would appeal to the kids out there that currently text this will help grow the market share. In addition with software like delicious library the isight could be used as a portable barcode scanner to create libraries of your DVD's or an inventory of your tools or even a shopping list that could have the groceries waiting for you at the supermarket. The back to my mac functions mean that the main storage can be on your home computer that you can now access from anywhere thanks to the new time capsule or airport software so it does not need a large hard drive and can use a 8-32 Gb ssd. The tablet could be used as a tablet for photoshop with the addition of a stylus or even a mouse replacement if used as a big trackpad. If the tablet had a dock it could be used as a second screen for dashboard or even rss feeds. It would make a much better e-reader than anything out there. I think that this is the approach that Steve will make when he introduces it upon his return... Much like the iphone when it came out... it is so much more than a netbook and we will have to pay for it. I know that if it had the features listed above I surely will.

I totally agree with this - apple always strives to add to ecosystem each person has with their high tech toys, and this would be one more "I can't live without it" device that will have wide acceptance with current mac users, and bring in a whole new group of switcher.

[diabolic]

App-store would be the kiss of death for a "netbook", but not for an e-reader.

A netbook should run Photoshop, Ilife, and all the other full OSX applications.

I don't think it's going to be a netbook. People are just throwing that term around for something smaller than a notebook. I'd say it's much more likely to be a scaled up iPod Touch/E-Reader/Web Browser/Email device with wifi/bluetooth and the app store.

[pale9]

Am I the only that sees this happening? Just like Apple transformed the music download business they will now take on arch enemy Amazon.

Just wait and see.... I predict the itunes store will have thousands of ebooks for sale by year's end...

THE ORACLE OF DELPHI HAS SPOKEN

[Sabon]

Not true at all. Apple can't built a decent $500 that retains a 25-30% profit margin. Such a machine would have to cost them $250 before taxes, marketing, distribution and other expenses.

I'd also disagree that Macs, in general, are overpriced. They are more expensive, but then again the build quality and user experience of a $1000 iMac is superior to that of a $1000 Dell or HP. There is a 30% or so premium on Macs just as there is a 100% premium on BMW 328 compared to a Chevy Malibu. I don't think the BMW 328 is overpriced either, it's just a superior product with a better engine and build quality.

I disagree with both of you. If you go find a non-Apple computer with EXACTLY the same specs as an Apple computer and compare them side by side, the Apple computer does NOT cost more.

Does the other computer cost too much for what they are delivering? Yes. For one, Windows is overpriced. Two, Dell's hardware is not nearly as good quality wise as Apple. HP does, but Dell definitely does not.

[AidenShaw]

But as someone said in here, the Atom is 32 bit and I doubt Apple wants to support 32 bit architectures with Snow Leopard.

The Atom 230 (single core) and Atom 330 (dual core) are x64 processors.

http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupId=35641http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupId=35635

[sassenach74]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

..."[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

Actually, they do. It's called the iPhone (a computer that happens to be able to make and receive cellular calls).

And besides, I'm quite sure Apple could sell a quality computer for far less than $500 - as long as they were willing to seriously "Think Different" about their margins, advertising, and long term market share. :rolleyes:

Am I the only one who would really rather Cupertino stopped saying what they can't do and focus on what they can? If anyone could do this with style, it's Apple!

It's members of web forums who focus on what Apple can't do not Apple themselves. It's a comment Apple made once, then quoted over and over on websites.

[Eidorian]

I hope this doesn't turn into another Sony P Series.

[Sehnsucht]

App-store would be the kiss of death for a "netbook", but not for an e-reader.

A netbook should run Photoshop, iLife, and all the other full OS X applications.

Agreed. So in order to do that, it cannot have an Atom. I can't think of anything more brutal than trying to run Photoshop, Flash, Dreamweaver (ugh), iTunes, and multiple pages in Firefox at the same time on an Atom. My own 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo iMac can handle that without a hitch. A friend of mine has a Hackint0shed Acer Aspire One (1GB RAM + Atom) which is very pokey. (It was even pokier when it had Windows XP, but pokey is still pokey.)

So, considering that you can't put a Core 2 Duo in a netbook, it would make better sense to go for a full-sized tablet. Expensive? You bet. Mac tablets would get snapped up in spite of that.

[zw-gator]

I say it will be a 10" MBA with a touch screen

Starting price will be $899

[Sehnsucht]

Am I the only that sees this happening? Just like Apple transformed the music download business they will now take on arch enemy Amazon.

Just wait and see.... I predict the itunes store will have thousands of ebooks for sale by year's end...

THE ORACLE OF DELPHI HAS SPOKEN

I don't see why the Kindle is even considered a threat to any Apple product. For one thing, nobody uses it. Number two, it's a black-and-white E-BOOK READER that runs on Sprint's network (which probably won't exist by year's end) and by that definition doesn't have anything in common with any Apple product. It's not like somebody is going to say, "Screw the iPhone, I'm getting a Kindle!" because it's obviously apples and oranges here.

So why do people even bother poking fun at it? It's not an iPhone competitor at all.

eBooks are a fad from the "dot com" days that for some reason, refuse to die. When I want to read a book, I go to my room and pick out a real one off the shelf. ;)

[Anuba]

Agreed. So in order to do that, it cannot have an Atom. I can't think of anything more brutal than trying to run Photoshop, Flash, Dreamweaver (ugh), iTunes, and multiple pages in Firefox at the same time on an Atom. My own 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo iMac can handle that without a hitch. A friend of mine has a Hackint0shed Acer Aspire One (1GB RAM + Atom) which is very pokey. (It was even pokier when it had Windows XP, but pokey is still pokey.)

So, considering that you can't put a Core 2 Duo in a netbook, it would make better sense to go for a full-sized tablet. Expensive? You bet. Mac tablets would get snapped up in spite of that.
Nah, the tablet as a workhorse is dead. Microsoft placed all their bets on it a few years ago, but tablets flopped miserably against regular notebooks in the same price range.

A tablet netbook, on the other hand, would be useful. As long as it handles mail, browsing and maybe streaming some fullscreen video over WiFi, but is still so small that you can't help but bring it along everywhere you go, it's gonna be good. A jumbo iPod Touch, an Atom-powered tablet about the size of four iPhones, yeah, I'd buy it. I just hope they won't screw it up by forcing you to buy it along with an AT&T data plan or something.

[Eidorian]

Agreed. So in order to do that, it cannot have an Atom. I can't think of anything more brutal than trying to run Photoshop, Flash, Dreamweaver (ugh), iTunes, and multiple pages in Firefox at the same time on an Atom. My own 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo iMac can handle that without a hitch. A friend of mine has a Hackint0shed Acer Aspire One (1GB RAM + Atom) which is very pokey. (It was even pokier when it had Windows XP, but pokey is still pokey.)

So, considering that you can't put a Core 2 Duo in a netbook, it would make better sense to go for a full-sized tablet. Expensive? You bet. Mac tablets would get snapped up in spite of that.It's somewhat awkward with another Apple mobile computer using Intel's CULV/ULV mobile processors. Expect another forced reduction in hardware performance to keep it from infringing on the MacBook Air.

[gmcalpin]

I say it will be a 10" MBA with a touch screen
Laptops already have a track pad; touch screen only makes sense if it's replacing — not supplementing — that as an input. To me, at least.

What possible benefit would a multi-touch monitor on a laptop have?

[Anuba]

It's somewhat awkward with another Apple mobile computer using Intel's CULV/ULV mobile processors. Expect another forced reduction in hardware performance to keep it from infringing on the MacBook Air.
I wouldn't put it past them to discontinue the MBA in favor of another device. It's not like it would be their boldest move ever.

The MBA may not be as much of a flop as the Cube or the Newton, but it must have sold below expectations. They could scrap it without losing too much business. Prospective MBA buyers wouldn't die from carrying a unibody MB 13" instead.

[Eidorian]

I wouldn't put it past them to discontinue the MBA in favor of another device. It's not like it would be their boldest move ever.

The MBA may not be as much of a flop as the Cube or the Newton, but it must have sold below expectations. They could scrap it without losing too much business. Prospective MBA buyers wouldn't die from carrying a unibody MB 13" instead.I always found the MacBook Air quite awkward for what it is especially with netbooks around. It's trying to cash into the premium market with the thinness and light weight only to get kicked to the around by ~$500 netbooks.

It might be time to rethink this strategy.

[Goona]

I wouldn't put it past them to discontinue the MBA in favor of another device. It's not like it would be their boldest move ever.

The MBA may not be as much of a flop as the Cube or the Newton, but it must have sold below expectations. They could scrap it without losing too much business. Prospective MBA buyers wouldn't die from carrying a unibody MB 13" instead.
How do you know it sold below expectations, you have access to some internal Apple documents or what?

[iPhoneNYC]

As long as one can buy a MacBook for $999 it's hard to say how much more a tablet could cost than the normal $500 range. Unless the unit is very small - a bigger Touch or different type of iPhone or whatever...

[Anuba]

I always found the MacBook Air quite awkward for what it is especially with netbooks around. It's trying to cash into the premium market with the thinness and light weight only to get kicked to the around by ~$500 netbooks.

It might be time to rethink this strategy.
Yeah, the MBA sticks out like a sore thumb in their product line and given how minimalistic the lineup is (with gaping holes in some places), it seems strangely redundant to have three different 13" laptop models (WhiteBook, UMB, MBA). So what they could do is introduce this new tablet thing with the MBA processor, in a considerably cheaper package. This will perhaps cannibalize MBA sales, but that's all good... then they can quietly discontinue the MBA 6 months down the line due to poor sales, that way it will look like the MBA died all by itself, which is much less embarrassing than killing it off right away (which would make it look like Apple is admitting the MBA was a bad idea).

[Sabon]

This is Apple's chance to add another piece of hardware to your growing collection. I think that rather than limit the function that it has i.e.: netbook it should build upon or integrate with your current macs and technology needs... this is what I mean, if they added an infrared port that enabled you to send signals to your home AV equipment and had the ability to send signals to x-10 or home automation equipment with the inclusion of the touch screen it would be the best remote control on the market that would be fully programable, who wouldn't buy it? An iSight camera could allow for video ichat in a much more portable device than the laptop ... this would appeal to the kids out there that currently text this will help grow the market share. In addition with software like delicious library the isight could be used as a portable barcode scanner to create libraries of your DVD's or an inventory of your tools or even a shopping list that could have the groceries waiting for you at the supermarket. The back to my mac functions mean that the main storage can be on your home computer that you can now access from anywhere thanks to the new time capsule or airport software so it does not need a large hard drive and can use a 8-32 Gb ssd. The tablet could be used as a tablet for photoshop with the addition of a stylus or even a mouse replacement if used as a big trackpad. If the tablet had a dock it could be used as a second screen for dashboard or even rss feeds. It would make a much better e-reader than anything out there. I think that this is the approach that Steve will make when he introduces it upon his return... Much like the iphone when it came out... it is so much more than a netbook and we will have to pay for it. I know that if it had the features listed above I surely will.

They aren't going to put in anything that most users won't be using. At most you can hope that a scanner company has something like the iPhone/iTouch port that they can connect to for their product.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like a scanner built in as I use, a couple times a year, Delicious Software too. But to have everyone pay for that hardware is not likely to happen. There are other things that they want more and there are more of them wanting it.

I think the days of adding IR ports on Apple products is probably done. Again, you can hope that a company can connect to the port on the iPhone but it is more likely that companies will build in wireless networking into their products first.

An isight camera is a possibility.

A netbook is not going to run PhotoShop.

[sterlingindigo]

I sure hope it's NOT a 10" iPhone/iPod tablet.

The touch screen part is intriguing. I can't see doing any kind of serious touch typing on a 10" tablet/pad (maybe) but could definitely imagine a gesture and/or pen capable screen and/or touchpad.

I don't think it will merely be a small e-machine. I bet you will be able to do some remarkable things with it and it will be small like a netbook size only with more features. And it wont be cheap looking either.

I'm hoping for a 9" or 10" Air with some enhanced features or some small sexy clamshell with zero bezel, keys and additional touch capabilities.

[macerroneous]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

Something tells me...

What can you sell for $500 that's not a piece of junk and that won't cannibalize iPod and iPhone sales?

I bet we're back to that clamshell device which has an iPhone tray where the trackpad belongs.

This device, in essence, is a screen, a keyboard, an iPod dock, some ports, and maybe some hard disk space. Maybe an ARM chip to coordinate all the i/o. This device requires you to buy the iPhone(touch), so there's no cannibalization. Also, this explains why they needed to open the dock to peripherals in OS3.0 Moreover, you need the HD dock output to run the 10" screen, which will NOT be a touch screen.

Since the only touch screen will be the iPod, this ought to be unexpensive to build, allowing a $400 base price and still maintain a 50% margin.

Unfortunately, this sounds a lot like a folio. I'd prefer an iPad.

[Eidorian]

Unfortunately, this sounds a lot like a folio. I'd prefer an iPad.We all know how Palm's turned out.

[MikeDTyke]

I just have to laugh at all those who claim tablets are dead, windows has proven it`s a non-starter, etc etc.

Apple has proven it can build a highly usable & successful tablet platform, they've already sold 30 million of them as of the end of 2008.

Question is whether it`ll have a physical keyboard either attached or as an optional accessory.

I think from the bullishness of Apple regarding it`s multi touch on-screen keyboards and the fact that building a dozen or so keyboard variants for a device they aren`t completely sure they`ll flog millions of mean it`ll probably not include one as standard.

I could envisage Apple leaving this to the 3rd party market. Release the tablet with a bluetooth HID profile or a keyboard protocol offered via the ipod dock connector. Then you`ll have a dozen manufacturers building keyboards and cases with inbuilt keyboards. The fittest design will win out and Apple doesn`t have to risk/spend any money to do it.

My personal design favourite would be a case that hinges down the longest side to reveal a wired keyboard with an inbuilt battery for longer trips away from the power socket.

M. :D

[Anuba]

How do you know it sold below expectations, you have access to some internal Apple documents or what?
Please don't cry, but...

http://www.itpro.co.uk/166020/macbook-air-sales-below-expectations
"While MacBook Air is turning heads, it's not opening wallets..."

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0810/gallery.holiday_gadgets.fortune/3.html
"The Air sits in the not-so-glamorous 52nd position on Amazon's most popular notebook list..." (CNN/Fortune lists the MBA as one of the 9 top tech flops).

Mac360 calls it the "21st Century Cube", while cnet calls it "Cube 2.0".

[polaris20]

I sure hope it's NOT a 10" iPhone/iPod tablet. I already have those.


Where did you get a 10" iPod Touch? Link? ;)

[Sabon]

The iPhone and iPod touch have flash.

Built in non upgradeable flash. I thought you meant upgradeable. I guess I was thinking wrong.

[steve333]

Apple can stop whining about how they can't make a computer for this or that price point. Their computers are Made in China just like all the other electronic garbage we feed on. Cheap labor, cheap manufacturing, unfortunately cheap build quality to go along with it.
If it's going to be made in Taiwan I could understand the price points, but if it's made in Mainland China?
Give me a break, Apple.

[hashholly]

As long as one can buy a MacBook for $999 it's hard to say how much more a tablet could cost than the normal $500 range. Unless the unit is very small - a bigger Touch or different type of iPhone or whatever...

Its going to be along the lines of a 10" Touch with full OSX + App's in the dashboard. I dont expect this thing to have a keyboard, and because its a tablet your already looking in the $700 range....

Everyone keeps talking about it cannibalizing the macbook, but it wont anymore than the new Uni-body Macbooks cannibalize the sales of Macbook Pro's. for 200-300 less you get a slower processor (in the form of an Intel ULV), still no firewire, as many ports as the MBA, no keyboard, and you lose 3" of screen real-estate.

[polaris20]

Apple can stop whining about how they can't make a computer for this or that price point. Their computers are Made in China just like all the other electronic garbage we feed on. Cheap labor, cheap manufacturing, unfortunately cheap build quality to go along with it.
If it's going to be made in Taiwan I could understand the price points, but if it's made in Mainland China?
Give me a break, Apple.

If they do it in aluminum like the other MB's, I can see the price going up a little bit because of that, but yeah, I agree. It shouldn't be too astronomical over regular netbooks.

[Stately]

Sounds cool, but I'm really longing for that famed tablet. I wonder if they would consider making a 10" Pro. Hmmm . . I wish it was OLED screens they were ordering. It would be great to have a netbook like Kyocera's concept phone running full OS. Just dreaming I guess. :rolleyes:

[Goona]

Please don't cry, but...

http://www.itpro.co.uk/166020/macbook-air-sales-below-expectations
"While MacBook Air is turning heads, it's not opening wallets..."

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0810/gallery.holiday_gadgets.fortune/3.html
"The Air sits in the not-so-glamorous 52nd position on Amazon's most popular notebook list..." (CNN/Fortune lists the MBA as one of the 9 top tech flops).

Mac360 calls it the "21st Century Cube", while cnet calls it "Cube 2.0".

What you wrote doesn't prove jack, unless you have some internal Apple documentation to prove that the Air did not exceed their expectations, you don't know as much as I do of how successful the Air is for Apple. Meanwhile you have other companies like Dell making similar laptops like the Adamo despite it being a "failure" for Apple, lol. Meanwhile Apple is still selling the Air and updating despite it being a "failure". As they say life goes on.

[JonHimself]

The way I see the apple laptop landscape panning out is:

Laptops:
light - macbook, heavy - macbook pro
Ultra-portable (for lack of better word consider this might be a tablet, netbook, etc)
Light - new device, Heavy - macbook air

If you want to run full OSX apps (ilife, adobe, etc) in an ultra-portable you get the the macbook air. The new device would be for browsing, im'ing, watching video/listening to music, etc... just a thought taking into consideration other products already available from Apple.

I WISH that whatever comes out would let me go to starbucks, edit photos in aperture and update my website in because that's what I WANT it to do but realistically I'm going to have to buy an Air to do that.

[Eidorian]

What you wrote doesn't prove jack, unless you have some internal Apple documentation to prove that the Air did not exceed their expectations, you don't know as much as I do of how successful the Air is for Apple. Meanwhile you have other companies like Dell making similar laptops like the Adamo despite it being a "failure" for Apple, lol.Once again another hyped but stillborn product like the MacBook Air since netbooks are around.

[Anuba]

What you wrote doesn't prove jack, unless you have some internal Apple documentation to prove that the Air did not exceed their expectations, you don't know as much as I do of how successful the Air is for Apple.
Well, then again you're a pathological Apple apologist who can't stand the thought of Apple failing at something, which always makes for a useless conversation -- so if you don't mind, I'll return to talking with regular Apple fans now. Fans good. Apologists bad.

[Goona]

Well, then again you're a pathological Apple apologist who can't stand the thought of Apple failing at something, which always makes for a useless conversation -- so if you don't mind, I'll return to talking with regular Apple fans now. Fans good. Apologists bad.

Thought so, you don't know if the Air is a failure, just talking out of your ass as usual.

[sterlingindigo]

Where did you get a 10" iPod Touch? Link? ;)

:eek: Thanks!

I meant, I can't see myself holding a 10" iPhone up to my ear or one fitting in my arm band when I'm out jogging. Although it would be easier to text and drive at the same time. Especially if there were a video camera that could display the road in front of me while in split screen mode or something. :)

[ULFoaf]

This is probably what Apple would be competing with in terms of price.

My impression is that it isn't blowing anyone away. Apple's will be innovative or they won't do it.

[Eidorian]

This is probably what Apple would be competing with in terms of price.

My impression is that it isn't blowing anyone away. Apple's will be innovative or they won't do it.It has an excellent display, GPS, and Built-in HSDPA but it's bogged down by running Vista on an Atom processor even with 2 GB of RAM.

[t0mat0]

Has anyone got figures of what an ARM Core 8 with a GPU be able to do vs a Core 2 Duo, Atom/Ion?

Any word on a rotating screen of a netbook that could then shut with a touchscreen on top of the device to be used like a slate?

Is the delay to not get one out prior to 10.6 indicative? Yes, Atom is ok, but NVIDIA has shown you can get more out of it, and the ARM Cortex A8 has shown ARM to be very good in terms of power usage. We've got 10.5.7 in the wings, we're awaiting a significant Snow Leopard build, and an earnings call on Wednesday. NAB's on and Final Cut Studio is apparently ready to drop an update - Sounds like there's a fair bit to wait for till WWDC.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/apples_tablet_to_be_based_on_arm_cortex_architecture

Drop PPC and pick up ARM support?

[farmboy]

The baseline iMac probably costs $500 to make. Steve Jobs was talking BS out of his butt when he said "We don't know how to make a $500 computer that is not a piece of junk." He said that because it makes macs look even better that they are so expensive and overly priced.

And the whole point of a Netbook is to purchase it CHEAP, and they are popular now because of the awful economy. I'm doubtful that Apple will make this Netbook cheap.

Come back when you understand that there is way more to a product cost than merely the sum of components.

[BTW]

If it's priced more than current netbooks, then it just becomes a slightly-cheaper MacBook, and then begins treading the price range of some very decent full-featured PC laptops near the $900-1000 price range. Not sure if Apple can pull this one off unless they shave their profit margins. It would sell quite a bit then.


They can pull it off if it is subsidized with a mobile card and plan by your national mobile carrier (e.g. AT&T or Verizon). They may initially sell them for $599 if a two year contract is included. :)

[ULFoaf]

I just have to laugh at all those who claim tablets are dead, windows has proven it`s a non-starter, etc etc.

Apple has proven it can build a highly usable & successful tablet platform, they've already sold 30 million of them as of the end of 2008.

Question is whether it`ll have a physical keyboard either attached or as an optional accessory.

I think from the bullishness of Apple regarding it`s multi touch on-screen keyboards and the fact that building a dozen or so keyboard variants for a device they aren`t completely sure they`ll flog millions of mean it`ll probably not include one as standard.

I could envisage Apple leaving this to the 3rd party market. Release the tablet with a bluetooth HID profile or a keyboard protocol offered via the ipod dock connector. Then you`ll have a dozen manufacturers building keyboards and cases with inbuilt keyboards. The fittest design will win out and Apple doesn`t have to risk/spend any money to do it.

My personal design favourite would be a case that hinges down the longest side to reveal a wired keyboard with an inbuilt battery for longer trips away from the power socket.

M. :D

I think an iPhone-like touch interface will be likely. I occasionally try to "touch" my Macbook after using the iPhone ...

I think a keyboard will at least be an option.

I see a device that would be better than an iPhone for internet access (bigger, faster) but less so than a Macbook. It would have to be for "light" usage, meaning getting on the internet or reading email while lying in bed or on the couch. l feel the need for such a device, and have been tempted to get a Dell Mini 9.

[inkling23]

"[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

This certainly isn't a denial... :)

[hashholly]

It has an excellent display, GPS, and Built-in HSDPA but it's bogged down by running Vista on an Atom processor even with 2 GB of RAM.

The Sony Vaio P does not run on an atom processor, it uses one of Intels ULV Core 2 Duo processors.

[ULFoaf]

The way I see the apple laptop landscape panning out is:

Laptops:
light - macbook, heavy - macbook pro
Ultra-portable (for lack of better word consider this might be a tablet, netbook, etc)
Light - new device, Heavy - macbook air

If you want to run full OSX apps (ilife, adobe, etc) in an ultra-portable you get the the macbook air. The new device would be for browsing, im'ing, watching video/listening to music, etc... just a thought taking into consideration other products already available from Apple.

I WISH that whatever comes out would let me go to starbucks, edit photos in aperture and update my website in because that's what I WANT it to do but realistically I'm going to have to buy an Air to do that.


I'd buy one!

[flopticalcube]

The Sony Vaio P does not run on an atom processor, it uses one of Intels ULV Core 2 Duo processors.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/02/more-vaio-p-specs-leak-out/

a 1.33GHz Atom Z520

[mikeinternet]

They should give it away for free and make up the difference in volume!

People ask us all the time, how do you make money doing this? The answer is simple: volume.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4253/saturday-night-live-first-citywide-change-bank-2

HAHA

[Anuba]

Thought so, you don't know if the Air is a failure,
*Of course* nobody outside Apple has access to their internal numbers, and they would never admit to it being a flop anyway. Anyone who ever discussed whether the MBA is a flop or not knows this. Which is why I said "it must have sold below expectations". It's called speculation. Speculation is what makes the wheels of forums like this one turn. You showed your true apologist colors by taking offense and screaming for hard facts from inside Apple. If they discontinue it after this revision reaches EOL, you'll know it was a flop -- until then, make do with speculation and guessing like everyone else.

[farmboy]

Re-Kindle - superb joke.

A netbook should run Photoshop, Ilife, and all the other full OSX applications.

Yeah, sure. As if all the other netbooks out there could run Photoshop. Oh wait, I thought netbooks were only for email, web browsing and light word processing, with low specs and a dirt cheap price. Now it has to be a full-on computer able to process complex special effects and a terrabyte hard drive. What, no HD video editing capabilities either? Epic fail for Apple!

[Bye Bye Baby]

These are interesting times in which we live.

[JonHimself]

[SIZE=1]Unfortunately, this sounds a lot like a folio. I'd prefer an iPad.

I was thinking that exact same thing this morning... and likened it to the foleo.. which I agree was a bad idea... but, to use a phrase used all too often, if anyone can make it work, Apple could... it'd be great for people with an iPhone/Touch but would be so widely criticized that it might not even be given a chance to succeed.

[Eidorian]

The Sony Vaio P does not run on an atom processor, it uses one of Intels ULV Core 2 Duo processors.http://www.google.com/search?q=sony+p+series+atom

My favorite review (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/laptops/2009/04/08/sony-vaio-p-series-vgn-p11zr-review/1) of it.

[hashholly]

"[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

This certainly isn't a denial... :)

Apple could essentially take an MSI wind, throw it in an Aluminum casing, and sell it for $500.00, but it would be junk......try watching a 720p video, or even hulu on atom running netbook, not smooth playback at all.

EDIT: Ahh, i see that review lists it as a 1.3 atom, wonder why sony would try to push it as being a core 2 duo (ULV)

[hashholly]

http://www.google.com/search?q=sony+p+series+atom

My favorite review (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/laptops/2009/04/08/sony-vaio-p-series-vgn-p11zr-review/1) of it.

If you go to sonys main site the processor just says 1.3 Intel, and if you click on it, it brings up a link about core 2 duo, from that link you gave toms hardware specified the 1.6ghz is an atom, but likewise only lists the 13ghz version available on their site as just Intel.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644608896

[Eidorian]

If you go to sonys main site the processor just says 1.3 Intel, and if you click on it, it brings up a link about core 2 duo, from that link you gave toms hardware specified the 1.6ghz is an atom, but likewise only lists the 13ghz version available on their site as just Intel.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&categoryId=8198552921644608896I trust Sony's website as much as I trust that the iMac has a desktop Core 2 Duo and a desktop video card.

[MadeTheSwitch]

Apple has said that "[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

Hmmm...ironic statement considering the Mac Mini's can be had for that price. I suppose this comment was meant in terms of a netbook, but left open ended like that it's kinda embarrassing considering they DO put out a product at that price!

Now as for what can be done about price, that's easy. SUBSIDIZING! Cell phone companies are ramping up to sell netbooks this way, don't see why Apple can't do the same thing and partner with AT&T on. They do it with the iPhone, they can do it with other products too. Just have to be a little bit creative about it that's all.

[Stately]

I think an iPhone-like touch interface will be likely. I occasionally try to "touch" my Macbook after using the iPhone ...



Haha, that's funny. I think that happens to a lot of us. I think Steve was correct when he said touch devices are just more natural.

[MadeTheSwitch]

What can you sell for $500 that's not a piece of junk and that won't cannibalize iPod and iPhone sales?

Hmmm...maybe I am confused. How would this product cannibalize iPod or iPhone sales? It's not like you are going to lug a 10" screened product around with you to listen to music while going for a jog one morning. And you certainly aren't going to hold it up to your ear to make a phone call with it. Nor will it fit in your pocket easily.

Am I missing something here??

[polaris20]

:eek: Thanks!

I meant, I can't see myself holding a 10" iPhone up to my ear or one fitting in my arm band when I'm out jogging. Although it would be easier to text and drive at the same time. Especially if there were a video camera that could display the road in front of me while in split screen mode or something. :)

No, of course you wouldn't try to use it directly as a replacement for an iTouch or iPhone. However, I've found plenty of times that I'd like something bigger than my iTouch, with perhaps a similar interface but with expanded features, such as a BT keyboard, perhaps an iLife and iWork Lite suite.

The iPod Touch with a mini DisplayPort output and a BT keyboard would be more than capable for light document editing and spreadsheets, as well as PowerPoint-type stuff. An Atom processor equipped machine could even do iLife stuff too.

[Marx55]

The iTablet must be:

- Light. No more than 300-400 g.
- Small and pocketable.
- Capable of running Keynote and PowerPoint presentations to VGA-out videoprojector.
- True Firewire, Ethernet and at least 2 USB 2 ports.

Much like the OQO:

http://www.oqo.com

but with Mac OS X and a tablet form factor:

Next Apple moves will be Books and Games…
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09...ooks-and-games

[polaris20]

The iTablet must be:

- Light. No more than 300-400 g.
- Small and pocketable.
- Capable of running Keynote and PowerPoint presentations to VGA-out videoprojector.
- True Firewire, Ethernet and at least 2 USB 2 ports.

Much like the OQO:

http://www.oqo.com

but with Mac OS X and a tablet form factor:

Next Apple moves will be Books and Games…
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09...ooks-and-games

I highly doubt that it'll have FW, nor do I think it needs it. I barely use it now as it is.

[polaris20]

Hmmm...maybe I am confused. How would this product cannibalize iPod or iPhone sales? It's not like you are going to lug a 10" screened product around with you to listen to music while going for a jog one morning. And you certainly aren't going to hold it up to your ear to make a phone call with it. Nor will it fit in your pocket easily.

Am I missing something here??

I don't think you are. The minute it comes out with a 9" screen it ceases to directly compete with an iPod Touch.

But it also has to be more than just an iPod Touch with a big screen if it is to succeed. It also will need iLife/iWork (Lite edition if necessary) and more ports.

[JonHimself]

The iTablet must be:

- Light. No more than 300-400 g.
- Small and pocketable.
- Capable of running Keynote and PowerPoint presentations to VGA-out videoprojector.
- True Firewire, Ethernet and at least 2 USB 2 ports.

Much like the OQO:

http://www.oqo.com

but with Mac OS X and a tablet form factor:

Next Apple moves will be Books and Games…
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09...ooks-and-games

What divice that is small and pocketable would have firewire/why would you need firewire on a small, pocketable device?

[Marx55]

I highly doubt that it'll have FW, nor do I think it needs it. I barely use it now as it is.

Firewire is essential for Mac OS X repairs via Target Disk Mode. Any Mac user may need it at some point. There is nothing like it on the Windoze world.

[Marx55]

What divice that is small and pocketable would have firewire/why would you need firewire on a small, pocketable device?

See my previous post.

[JonHimself]

Firewire is essential for Mac OS X repairs via Target Disk Mode. Any Mac user may need it at some point. There is nothing like it on the Windoze world.

What do macbook/air users do?

[AidenShaw]

Agreed. So in order to do that, it cannot have an Atom.

I have Windows 7 and Photoshop on an eeePC Atom with 2 GiB RAM, and it's fine for small stuff. I wouldn't load a 40 MPixel multi-layer project, but I wouldn't want to do that on an MBA either.

I think that people would expect a netbook to be slow at big jobs, but it's nice to be able to do big stuff in a pinch. I'd bring my 6 GiB dual core Win7 x64 laptop if I were expecting to do a lot of Photoshop - but I'd like the option of doing some touchup from the netbook.


Has anyone got figures of what an ARM Core 8 with a GPU be able to do vs a Core 2 Duo, Atom/Ion?

It wouldn't run any OSX applications, that's what.

[AidenShaw]

Firewire is essential for Mac OS X repairs via Target Disk Mode. Any Mac user may need it at some point. There is nothing like it on the Windoze world.

Booting from USB drives? Booting the Windows recovery console from the DVD?

Pretty close....

[polaris20]

Firewire is essential for Mac OS X repairs via Target Disk Mode. Any Mac user may need it at some point. There is nothing like it on the Windoze world.

Seeing as how they can't do that now with a MB or MBA, or iPod Touch, I still kinda doubt it.

[WLS]

I don't think it's going to be a netbook. People are just throwing that term around for something smaller than a notebook. I'd say it's much more likely to be a scaled up iPod Touch/E-Reader/Web Browser/Email device with wifi/bluetooth and the app store.

If it weren't for those 10" lcd contract rumors floating around I think we could be more sure it won't be a netbook. 10 inches is too big for a Touch type device which I would expect to max out at about 7". an I-Read if you will with itunes and APPS compatibility along with a WIFI browser in the 7" range would be a very interesting product. I'd buy it no question.
Say maybe it IS a netbook - a networked book reader not a small clamshell laptop that you are assuming it would be!!

[Eidorian]

Firewire is essential for Mac OS X repairs via Target Disk Mode. Any Mac user may need it at some point. There is nothing like it on the Windoze world.Maybe you should take a look at the MacBook Air and new Aluminium MacBook without those godly FireWire ports.

It wouldn't run any OSX applications, that's what.I don't understand the desire for a non-x86 processor at this point either.

[JonHimself]

Sometimes it's hard to tell if people that are calling for (demanding must-haves) things like firewire, replaceable battery, full osx running adobe cs/pro apps, etc AND/OR still want it to fit in their pocket and cost $500 are just trolling or if they actually think that is a reasonable expectation of what will be released.
Of course there is a difference between "wouldn't it be cool if.." and "if it doesn't do the following, it'll be a failure.." but I get the impression it's the latter.

[Marx55]

What do macbook/air users do?

They are locked and blocked on that. A really bad thing for them. The shame is that many Mac users do not even know about that. They will face it when their disk needs repair!

[Marx55]

Booting from USB drives? Booting the Windows recovery console from the DVD?

Pretty close....

It is not the same. Target Disk Mode via FireWire allows repairing that no other method allows. It has saved our bacon many times repairing Macs.

[JonHimself]

It is not the same. Target Disk Mode via FireWire allows repairing that no other method allows. It has saved our bacon many times repairing Macs.

I agree it is useful (I have used it before) but I've got to think that it is far from a MUST-HAVE for an ultra-portable computer/tablet/iPod/whatever. Apple has deemed it not to be useful on even their consumer level laptops (which of course doesn't mean it's the right decision, but I have to assume that they have better access to data about what is and what is no necessary than I do)

[Marx55]

I agree it is useful (I have used it before) but I've got to think that it is far from a MUST-HAVE for an ultra-portable computer/tablet/iPod/whatever. Apple has deemed it not to be useful on even their consumer level laptops (which of course doesn't mean it's the right decision, but I have to assume that they have better access to data about what is and what is no necessary than I do)

The only reason not to put Firewire on the MacBook is to prevent cannibalizing sales from the MacBook Pro. Concerning the MacBook Air, it is just too port-crippled! A shame for Apple and the many lost sales due to that.

[AidenShaw]

It is not the same. Target Disk Mode via FireWire allows repairing that no other method allows. It has saved our bacon many times repairing Macs.

What can you do with target disk mode that you couldn't do when booted from a USB drive?

In both cases you are running a full OS from another drive, with full access to the target drive.

[JonHimself]

The only reason not to put Firewire on the MacBook is to prevent cannibalizing sales from the MacBook Pro. Concerning the MacBook Air, it is just too port-crippled! A shame for Apple and the many lost sales due to that.

I'm not sure that's the ONLY reason. There's a $600 price difference between the two base-models. I would wonder how many people only need a consumer laptop (which you could argue the macbook is technically aimed at, despite what it might be capable of doing) but also REQUIRE firewire. It's probably more likely that the person that REQUIRES firewire (ie there is absolutely no way around not having it) also is in the market for a pro-level laptop.

[iMacmatician]

…I was wondering when you'd show up. :)

I don't think you are. The minute it comes out with a 9" screen it ceases to directly compete with an iPod Touch.

But it also has to be more than just an iPod Touch with a big screen if it is to succeed. It also will need iLife/iWork (Lite edition if necessary) and more ports.More processing power too, for multitasking and the more intensive applications that will make good use of the larger display.

[polaris20]

I was wondering when you'd show up. :)

More processing power too, for multitasking and the more intensive applications that will make good use of the larger display.

Good point, and I forgot to mention that. Of course an Atom 1.6Ghz (or whatever iteration they end up using) would be much better for multitasking and overall processing power.

[illitrate23]

if it is a touch-screen tablet, i will buy it (whether it runs iPhoneOS or MacOS)
if it is a netbook, i will not buy it - i'll stick with my macbook thanks

[digiguy23]

So it looks like 2 things that Steve Jobs misinformed the public.

1). Video iPod
2). Netwboob

[JonHimself]

if it is a touch-screen tablet, i will buy it (whether it runs iPhoneOS or MacOS)
if it is a netbook, i will not buy it - i'll stick with my macbook thanks

See I'm the opposite.. I dropped my MBP and now it overheats/freezes/screen goes/etc etc and I've been meaning to replace it with a desktop (likely imac) and the base mb or the macbook air because i like to go to coffee shops/home to parents/travel/etc and I would like a basic computer that still would let me know 99% of the same programs (I don't expect to encode video/rip dvds etc, but manage large photo libraries, download torrents, update websites, etc so I am hoping for a netbook that can be pushed to its limits to do those things so I don't have to buy a macbook air. I have an iPhone so, obviously depending on what they release, a tablet seems like it would duplicate a lot of capabilities on my phone while not really letting me fully use a computer (the way that I want to) on the go.

[JonHimself]

So it looks like 2 things that Steve Jobs misinformed the public.
1). Video iPod
2). Netwboob

To be fair, he didn't say they wouldn't make a netbook. He said that they can't patricipate in the price range of netbooks and that they had interesting ideas for that segment... whether that means a pricier netbook or a tablet, or other, it would still be the "interesting idea"... or at least that what I think he said, who knows.. it's be quoted and misquoted dozens of times.

[nefster]

last year i sold my blackbook about 2 months before the official announcement of the new macbooks knowing that i was going to get a lot more money for mine if it was the latest model and not the older model and it worked.

while i was waiting for the new macbook release i purchased 3 of the most popular netbooks that were out. the Aspire One 7", EEC PC 1000h 10", and the MSI Wind U100 10". they all 3 had the Atom 1.6 in them and i took them all to their max ram which was 1.5 for the Acer and 2GB for the EEC and Wind. I also gave them all 250GB drives.

they worked great. i had them dual booting XP and another OS that we are not supposed to talk about here and they ran them both great. that little Atom 1.6 is a great processor and overclocked it was even better.

i will refer to the Wind below because that was my favorite.

i personally did not see much difference in everyday performance with my blackbook and my Wind and the Wind got 6 hours battery life. i was able to run photoshop, iLife, etc...

the wind not only performed well but felt like it was made well and only cost me $399 plus my upgrades to a larger HDD and memory which probably had me at about the $500 mark in it.

i had a great looking screen. great performance, wireless N, bluetooth, 3 USB ports that were nicely spaced apart for plugging in multiple USB device (unlike my Alum Macbook which has 2 and they are to close together), standard VGA out (no adapter needed), 2 card readers, and kick butt battery life.

if MSI can do all of this for $399 then Apple should be able to pull it off as well.

it of course will have to be more like $599 since it is Apple and will look cooler and have the Apple logo on it.

i found that my Wind hooked to an apple keyboard and mouse and then to a 19" monitor while i was at work did everything i needed and as well as my blackbook.

the netbook market is for the average user which is 80% of people buying computers. they want the internet, itunes, email, and maybe some photo editing/ saving options.

i hope Apple makes the move and does it with t price point that makes it competitive.

i have since sold all of the netbooks and got the aluminum macbook LOL but thats only because i am addicted to having the latest apple laptop as silly as that is :)

I haven't played with any of these netbooks, but are you seriously telling us that they ran iLife '09 "just fine"?! The Mac Mini's have trouble with iLife sometimes (the previous generation). I can't imagine how something with that processor could reasonably run iLife, unless perhaps you have a miniscule photo library and are leaving out garageband and iMovie altogether. Explain?

[macerroneous]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

What can you sell for $500 that's not a piece of junk and that won't cannibalize iPod and iPhone sales?

Hmmm...maybe I am confused. How would this product cannibalize iPod or iPhone sales? It's not like you are going to lug a 10" screened product around with you to listen to music while going for a jog one morning. And you certainly aren't going to hold it up to your ear to make a phone call with it. Nor will it fit in your pocket easily.

Am I missing something here??

Touch platform is compelling enough that some people buy it now for wifi alone and would rather have a 10" screen instead of a 3.5". Furthermore, plug in your earbud/mic and skype away. ie less reason to buy iPhone.

[hutchitl]

I will be highly disappointed if Apple releases a 10 in netbook with a keyboard. The money is in the Itunes Music Store (should be called itunes marketplace in my opinion.) Apple would be smart to release a 10 in touch screen tablet with no physical keyboard. The Itunes store would be expanded to have music, movies, tv shows, rentals, iphone apps, and ebooks/newspapers. In addition this tablet would be great for watching movies, tv shows. Why try entering a market with cheaper alternatives when Apple could create a whole new market with a device not produced by any other company. Another possible route would be include a camera and team up with a cell phone carrier and push video conferencing and video phone.

[Hattig]

In the UK, 3G connectivity via USB stick costs £30 plus pay-as-you-go fees.

Or £15 for 15GB (http://threestore.three.co.uk/broadband/modem.aspx?tariffid=1156&mixnmatch=0&id=1201) of data transfer. That's probably a better deal than some capped services on DSL in some places.

Oh, and on topic, an Apple sublaptop should cost no more than $799, or £599, because that white Macbook would look too tempting for only a little bit more (whilst offering a lot more power, albeit at a great weight and volume). OTOH I have a HP Mini, it cost me £205, and it's not half bad.

[iMacmatician]

I haven't played with any of these netbooks, but are you seriously telling us that they ran iLife '09 "just fine"?! The Mac Mini's have trouble with iLife sometimes (the previous generation). I can't imagine how something with that processor could reasonably run iLife, unless perhaps you have a miniscule photo library and are leaving out garageband and iMovie altogether. Explain?Even my MacBook Pro lags sometimes while using iMovie '09 (while other apps are open).

Also, my iBook G4 lags while typing in iWork '08 (CPU shoots up significantly).

[macerroneous]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

The more I think about it, the more I convince myself that this new device will be kept low-priced by making it an iPhone/touch accessory. "Harness the processing and communication power of the new iPhone" for only $400 plus the price of the phone. And the plan. Again, that's why Bluetooth and dock are opened up in 3.0, so apple can use them for its netbook. I think that's a "pretty interesting idea" to compete in that space.

[kage207]

Okay, if they wanna make $600-$700 on the iPhone, do you really think they are gonna make 10" netbook for that price?

[diabolic]

[SIZE=1]The more I think about it, the more I convince myself that this new device will be kept low-priced by making it an iPhone/touch accessory. "Harness the processing and communication power of the new iPhone" for only $400 plus the price of the phone. And the plan. Again, that's why Bluetooth and dock are opened up in 3.0, so apple can use them for its netbook. I think that's a "pretty interesting idea" to compete in that space.

I think any of the ideas where 2 devices physically dock together are way too kludgy when you take into account the minimalism and aesthetics inherent in all the recent Apple designs. It's the complete opposite direction of everything they've done.

[gnasher729]

Nonsense. They know exactly how to make a $500 piece of junk, the difference is that they also know how to stick a $1000 pricetag on it.

I'd really like to know where this blind hatred towards Apple comes from. It seems pathological to me.

[gmcalpin]

Okay, if they wanna make $600-$700 on the iPhone, do you really think they are gonna make 10" netbook for that price?
This thing most likely won't have wireless calling built-in. (Its form factor sort of rules that out.)

I agree that $600–700 is still too low, but you should be comparing it to the iPod Touch's price, not the iPhone's.

[abriwin]

Well not exactly but comparing the White iBook 13" with my daughter's new Acer Aspire one running Ubuntu 8.10 the Acer is built better than the Apple.
The only problem for me is that it doesn't run OSX.
Apparently you can get the MSI Wind to run MacOSX but it's not strictly legal unless of course you have bought a legal copy of MacOSX which makes it slightly less illegal (any legal eagles who can tell us if PearC are legal in Europe?)
Anyhow, if Apple do eventually get around to making some kind of netbook I'll be first in line. However if PearC beat em to it I will be sorely tempted. [I'd still love to get MacOSX running on the Acer Aspire one:) ]

ps surely if MacOSX will run on an old iBook with only a circa 850 Mhz processor, then MacOSX should run even better on an Intel Atom processor running at 1.6 Ghz?

[Goona]

*Of course* nobody outside Apple has access to their internal numbers, and they would never admit to it being a flop anyway. Anyone who ever discussed whether the MBA is a flop or not knows this. Which is why I said "it must have sold below expectations". It's called speculation. Speculation is what makes the wheels of forums like this one turn. You showed your true apologist colors by taking offense and screaming for hard facts from inside Apple. If they discontinue it after this revision reaches EOL, you'll know it was a flop -- until then, make do with speculation and guessing like everyone else.

Thanks for the speculations.

[hashholly]

Well not exactly but comparing the White iBook 13" with my daughter's new Acer Aspire one running Ubuntu 8.10 the Acer is built better than the Apple.
The only problem for me is that it doesn't run OSX.
Apparently you can get the MSI Wind to run MacOSX but it's not strictly legal unless of course you have bought a legal copy of MacOSX which makes it slightly less illegal (any legal eagles who can tell us if PearC are legal in Europe?)
Anyhow, if Apple do eventually get around to making some kind of netbook I'll be first in line. However if PearC beat em to it I will be sorely tempted. [I'd still love to get MacOSX running on the Acer Aspire one:) ]

ps surely if MacOSX will run on an old iBook with only a circa 850 Mhz processor, then MacOSX should run even better on an Intel Atom processor running at 1.6 Ghz?

Im not buying this build quality argument, ive owned an Aspire One and its probably the worst quality laptop i've ever come across, Im talking 3 keys broke off within the first few weeks of ownership.

That being said, you can install osx on it, i did and the only caveat i had was the lack of sound (had to use a usb soundcard, they may have fixed sound since, i have no idea). Coming from owning both an MSI wind and Acer Aspire one running OSX, i can tell you the atom is capable if simple tasks (surfing the net, ichat, typing, etc.), however the deal breaker was the lack of being able to play hulu.com videos smoothly/720p videos, and to my knowledge thats because of the processor.

[DaBrain]

Why the hell are people so asphyxiated on this touch screen ****? Touch works great on devices like the iphone and MAYBE a tablet. But so far the market for tables is very small and targeted at Design and Health providers. Touch Screens are good for fastfood restaurants. The Netbook market is booming and has more potential for profit making.

I agree! Can you imagine on a tiny 2 lb net book with a touch screen and every time you touch the screen it tips over? ---))) The obession with TOUCH Screens is insane and would rather take the enjoyment away when using a tiny net book.

Now if this touch screen was in a tablet that served as a media player, internet browser, email etc.... along with being a book reader then a Touch screen makes a hell of a lot more sense! ;)

[Geneva Shen]

There are some people "out there" -- they make a (good) living flying around the country giving presentations. My son is one of them, and, much as he would like to use a Mac, he uses a Toshiba with the turn-around touch screen because he "HAS" to work on his presentations on the plane. When he gets there, he wants to hook up with a projector & use a remote to show slides.

These people want, a 10" (9" OK) touch screen, big iPhoto, PhotoShop, Keynote, access to home computer or online files. Not interested in surfing, email (use phone 4 that). He feels that the MBA went in the wrong direction, i.e., he doesn't want it thinner, he wants it smaller, with DVD burner and SS HD (16GB is fine).

He thinks $1400 is about "the least u can pay 4 a 'useful' computer," and $2k is no problem, if it is better than others. He is not unique. It's not a large niche, but well-heeled (& computer = tax-deduction.) And they influence what the stay-at-office suits buy "for prestige." But it would probably kill the MBA, because those r the guys that bought it "just to see what it's like."

[DaBrain]

I don't think it's going to be a netbook. People are just throwing that term around for something smaller than a notebook. I'd say it's much more likely to be a scaled up iPod Touch/E-Reader/Web Browser/Email device with wifi/bluetooth and the app store.

BINGO you go to the head of the class! :D:);)

[Data]

I just hope it's a device wich i still wanna buy when already owning a laptop and an iphone ;-).

I would not see myself bying a tablet, nor do i know anybody who ownes one or is looking for it, only here on MR a lot of people want a tablet, but it seems to me that a tablet would be for a very small group of workers and not for a large group of people who would then just buy it for netbook kind of things.

Basicly i feel my iphone comes very close to what i would want from a netbook, thats why i would never buy a netbook after owning an iphone.

I so hope that it will be something none of us have tought about, then first say what a crappy idea will never work, and then after a couple of weeks say , damn this is so much better then i tought it would be , i want one too ;-).

[trip1ex]

How about .....

2 screens. The top screen a monitor and the bottom a touch screen.

[iPhoneNYC]

Small and cheap is what is exciting about a netbook. Is it as exciting if it's just small?

[clevin]

Small and cheap is what is exciting about a netbook. Is it as exciting if it's just small?

no.

Anything above $500 won't sell much. I think $499 is magic number, no to mention now all the netbook is racing towards the bottom, you can get decent netbook for $280.

[JonHimself]

no.

Anything above $500 won't sell much. I think $499 is magic number, no to mention now all the netbook is racing towards the bottom, you can get decent netbook for $280.

I just don't see how Apple could sell this product for $500.00 without it being subsidized... maybe I shouldn't say why they 'could' sell it, but how they 'would' sell it.

[winterspan]

I don't think they need to go as low as others on the price. I don't want a POS with a weak-ass Atom processor.

Basically, I want a ~10" ultraportable with at least a low-voltage Core 2 solo or duo, 2GB of Ram, an SSD, and an LED-backlit screen. And It should be around $1200...

[Marx55]

What can you do with target disk mode that you couldn't do when booted from a USB drive?

In both cases you are running a full OS from another drive, with full access to the target drive.

You do not get it. You can press the T key and then booting to make the Mac a disk and repair it from other Mac. That is Target Disk Mode. You cannot do it with USB. Got it? That is the HUGE difference!

[Marx55]

It's probably more likely that the person that REQUIRES firewire (ie there is absolutely no way around not having it) also is in the market for a pro-level laptop.

Not necessarily: the MacBook Pro is too heavy.

[diabolic]

Small and cheap is what is exciting about a netbook. Is it as exciting if it's just small?

Personally, I don't necessarily want small and cheap. I'd probably be happy with a $999 price on what I described earlier, a 10" touchscreen scaled up iPod Touch/E-Reader/Web Browser/E-Mail/Movie/Music/Wifi/Bluetooth/App Store device. Actually, I'd be really happy with that. Just a netbook, not so much.

[Goona]

I just don't see a need for this product, you have your main computer at home, an iphone for the road, unless this thing is cheap, see it failing.

[Eidorian]

I just don't see a need for this product, you have your main computer at home, an iphone for the road, unless this thing is cheap, see it failing.Not all of us can afford an iPhone brosef.

[MikeTheC]

One has to wonder if Apple isn't trying to very subtly enter the lower-end consumer electronics world here. They already have their iPod, AppleTV and iPhone products; one can only wonder if they even want a more-budget-priced-than-the-Mac-mini budget-priced computer product.

I have to admit a bit of confliction that I'm feeling right now. I have played around with some netbooks and they do have a certain appeal, I'll admit. That being said, my next Mac purchase also has to fill the shoes as a full replacement to my Mac mini, and frankly I don't see a netbook really fitting that bill.

[andrewdale]

Not all of us can afford an iPhone brosef.

+1, brosef. :)

I'm all for an Apple "netbook" as it's being called -- but those specs and price are going to have to line up quite nicely.

Not that I'm planning on getting one, but the wife might need some type of mobile machine for photography. Just don't feel like funneling the bank account JUST yet. We just bought her a Mini 9 and that thing is fun. :D

[Apple //e]

i havent read the whole thread but here is what i think apple will release:

10" touchscreen (no stylus)
atom 1.8 or 2.0 dual core
no physical keyboard
non-replacable battery
no lan
no ieee1394
1 usb 3.0
bt 3.0
wireless n
wwan
non upgradable ram and ssd
no sd slot
no video out
headphone jack
3.2 mp webcam
syncable thru bloatunes
and heres the genius: appz thru bloatunes stores
price: 800usd in usa, 1000usd everywhere else

apple isnt going to make a netbook. they will make a small net appliance that they can make a fortune off thru application sales. most, if not all native osx appz will port over easily or have lite versions software will be controlled by apple inc. my guess is that the appz will be osx ports and not iphone based even though it looks more like a big itouch.

and it will be sexxxy.

just my opinion

[Sofabutt]

It will definately cost hundreds more than any other netbook out there and be priced slightlly less than a MacBook. It will leave consiumers wondering why they don't just get a MacBook.

I love my Macs, but Apple's pricing scheme is the pits.

[Anuba]

One has to wonder if Apple isn't trying to very subtly enter the lower-end consumer electronics world here. They already have their iPod, AppleTV and iPhone products; one can only wonder if they even want a more-budget-priced-than-the-Mac-mini budget-priced computer product.
Yes, they raised a warning flag for lower margins this year. This is from July 2008:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/86204-apple-margin-worries-a-core-issue-for-analysts

The company said its gross margin in the September quarter will fall to 31.5% from 34.8% in the June quarter. And more startling, the company said it expects gross margins in fiscal 2009 to be about 30%. That is sharply below the level most analysts had been modeling for next year, and it has triggered sharp EPS estimate cuts, as well as widespread reductions in stock price targets, which tend to be calculated from projected forward earnings.

The big mystery that emerged from the call was the company’s comment that a key reason for the lower margins related to a future product transition about which it gave no details. That has created a variety of theories on what Apple might have in store: Updated iPods? A refreshed line of notebooks? A tablet PC drawing on the touch capabilities of the iPhone? Something no one is expecting?

Perhaps they've finally realized that if they ever want their market share to grow substantially, they're gonna have to let go of some of those otherworldly margins they've been sustaining for so long in a landscape of cut-throat business. And that this year, we might just see the first aggressively priced Mac (tablet netbook or other) that also has competitive specs. Traditionally, they never did both -- it's either good specs at a hefty price, or stone-age specs at a moderate price.

[andrewdale]

1 usb 3.0
bt 3.0
wwan

HA. Yeah, you still think this could be THIS June.

Nope.

[Anuba]

HA. Yeah, you still think this could be THIS June.

Nope.
Nope indeed.

First, a speed bump on MBP (from 2.66/2.93 to 2.8/3.06) in July or August.
In January, a new Arrandale-based MBP with USB 3.0.

[andrewdale]

Nope indeed.

First, a speed bump on MBP (from 2.66/2.93 to 2.8/3.06) in July or August.
In January, a new Arrandale-based MBP with USB 3.0.

Yup, but BT 3.0 -- no telling how long till that rolls in.

[headfuzz]

Apple has said that "[they] don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk."

Funny, the Dell Mini 9 that I got free with a Vodafone 3G subscription functions perfectly well as an OS X netbook and if you buy it new costs < £200 which at today's exchange rate ≈ $293USD.

Ultraportable, SSD, webcam, card reader, inbuilt 3G (yes that works under OS X too) plus all the usual Bluetooth/WiFi etc all of which work a charm, graphics are hardware accelerated and so on; all from a retail Leopard DVD with a couple of additional kexts...

How is it Dell know how to make a perfectly good netbook that runs OS X for < $500 and Apple don't? :rolleyes:

[diabolic]

How is it Dell know how to make a perfectly good netbook that runs OS X for < $500 and Apple don't? :rolleyes:

I guess it depends on someone's definition of perfectly good.

[Goona]

I guess it depends on someone's definition of perfectly good.

Studies show people who buy Dell don't get the best experience, I guess that's the price you pay, lol.

[Anuba]

Yup, but BT 3.0 -- no telling how long till that rolls in.
The BT 3.0 specs will be released on April 21 (today, in fact, if you live in my part of the world) but it will be some time before any products show up. As for USB 3.0, it's estimated that computers with USB 3.0 will start arriving by the end of 2009, but it will be a few more months before compatible peripherals hit the market. Then there's Firewire 3200... which could end up dead on arrival -- USB 3.0 is faster even with protocol overhead.

[headfuzz]

I guess it depends on someone's definition of perfectly good.

That would be a machine that functions as you expect it to. As I say, the Mini 9 runs OS X as well as my 2.4GHz Santa Rosa Macbook. Can't really ask for much more from a netbook tbh.

If I didn't need the additional horsepower of a Core2Duo in the Macbook for music performance I would be perfectly happy with the Mini 9 as my OS X laptop. As it is I use the Mini 9 as my day to day lappy to prevent the Macbook getting cluttered.

Oh, and like the *new* Macbooks, it lacks Firewire too :p

[Apple //e]

HA. Yeah, you still think this could be THIS June.

Nope.

i thought bt3 will be announced officially tomorrow. that doesnt mean there will be a ton of devices out there but i still think apple could include it. usb also is set for a 2010 release but i think the draft is set. kinda like wireless-n: not official but draft

or maybe i read the press release about the release date wrong?

anyways, i said it was my opinion. if you disagree with it, tell my why but dont mock it

[headfuzz]

Studies show people who buy Dell don't get the best experience, I guess that's the price you pay, lol.

No, studies show exactly what the marketing department want you to believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

;)

[JonHimself]

That would be a machine that functions as you expect it to. As I say, the Mini 9 runs OS X as well as my 2.4GHz Santa Rosa Macbook. Can't really ask for much more from a netbook tbh.

I'm not trying to sound snobby, or anything similar to that, but I just don't see how a 1.6 Atom processor can function 'as well' as a 2.4 core 2 duo. I have never used a netbook so I'm not speaking from experience, but the only way I could see that make any sense if 'function' means running Safari and Text Edit, not running iLife apps - especially with a decent sized library.
It's one thing to say that the mini is good enough to use as OSX netbook but I'm just not sure how an OS that is hacked to work on a system with lesser specs can function as good as on a macbook where the OS is designed to work.

[headfuzz]

Btw, don't get me wrong, I'm as intrigued as everyone else to see what Apple has in the works, I'm simply pointing out that the "We can't build a decent machine under $500" argument is complete and utter bollocks.

Dell has produced some shoddy products in their time. From my experience the Mini 9 is not one of them.

Apple has not exactly produced the greatest hardware themselves.

iBook G3 -> logic board issues (logic board replacement program introduced)
iBook G4 -> logic board issues (denied / ignored by Apple)
Macbook Pro -> yellow screen (not sure how this ended up)

[andrewdale]

i thought bt3 will be announced officially tomorrow. that doesnt mean there will be a ton of devices out there but i still think apple could include it. usb also is set for a 2010 release but i think the draft is set. kinda like wireless-n: not official but draft

or maybe i read the press release about the release date wrong?

anyways, i said it was my opinion. if you disagree with it, tell my why but dont mock it

Not intended to mock it. Apologies if that's how you felt it was geared.

No, the specs for BT3.0 are coming out tomorrow-ish as far as I know, but I still think it'll be quite a while before devices come out sporting the new stuff. Just like USB3, it takes time.

[Anuba]

Studies show people who buy Dell don't get the best experience, I guess that's the price you pay, lol.
Dell has machines in price ranges where customer satisfaction barely ever existed. Apple only sells high-end so naturally they will get a higher satisfaction ratings average (a $2500-3500 machine had better damn well be up to scratch).

But Dell has an 18% gross margin, Apple has a 35% gross margin, which means that if you buy a high-end Dell for $2500-3000 you will get one hell of a machine that will leave few dissatisfied. I use two high-end Dells daily and they've been fantastic. But that's not where Dell's volume sales are, their ratings are mostly based on the low-end bargain bin junk they sell to frugal consumers.

[Apple //e]

Not intended to mock it. Apologies if that's how you felt it was geared.

No, the specs for BT3.0 are coming out tomorrow-ish as far as I know, but I still think it'll be quite a while before devices come out sporting the new stuff. Just like USB3, it takes time.

hard to convey the proper "HA!" thru interwebs, huh. i just got off a stressfull day of work so i was all edgy. no hard feelings

apple usually adopts new standards selectively before most people. im just guessing here but the components are most probably available so i think they might go for it, more for bragging right$ than practicality

[headfuzz]

I'm not trying to sound snobby, or anything similar to that, but I just don't see how a 1.6 Atom processor can function 'as well' as a 2.4 core 2 duo. I have never used a netbook so I'm not speaking from experience, but the only way I could see that make any sense if 'function' means running Safari and Text Edit, not running iLife apps - especially with a decent sized library.
It's one thing to say that the mini is good enough to use as OSX netbook but I'm just not sure how an OS that is hacked to work on a system with lesser specs can function as good as on a macbook where the OS is designed to work.

Don't worry, you don't sound snobby, I'm pleased you would like me to clarify. :)

I said OS X runs as well on the Mini 9. Surprisingly so, tbh. As you point out you're not going to use a 1.6GHz Atom system for any major byte crunching but the hardware does exactly what it's supposed to, and runs the OS just fine. All the internals are supported natively by OS X anyway. The additional kext simply adds the device id for the graphics chip into the IORegistry.

All I do on the Mini 9 is surf the web, check emails online and fiddle with a few documents in OpenOffice, all of which it does without complaining. I can also use Skype with the webcam to contact my family abroad. Oh, and MobileMe syncs iCal and Address Book, which is quite handy. I can use the iPhone for this but it's quicker and easier to do so in bona fide iCal. For example you can't change the type of calendar an entry is raised against (ie Home, Work, Study etc) once created on the iPhone without deleting and recreating the entry which really annoys me as the iPhone's Calendar always defaults to Medical in my case, and clearly not all entries should be filed under this.

I'm never going to run Garageband (not that I would anyway as I use Logic and Ableton Live on my desktop), iPhoto, iMovie or suchlike on a netbook. That's not a netbook's intended purpose. You wouldn't run apps akin to these on any OS with this sort of hardware.

Yet I can still run VLC and watch the odd video here and there if I choose; admittedly probably from external media but it will still play most media quite happily (provided that's all you're doing, which, to be fair, is going to be the case if you're watching a video on a 9" 1024x600 screen).

In a nutshell, it does exactly what you want a netbook to do: be a reliable internet portal that you can carry around with you. It has most of the bells and whistles that my Macbook has (with the exception of Firewire and, obviously, optical drive) and some it doesn't (SSD, inbuilt card reader and inbuilt 3G).

It functions brilliantly as a small ultraportable OS X machine.

[macpluslaptop]

Am I the only that sees this happening? Just like Apple transformed the music download business they will now take on arch enemy Amazon.


But a backlit screen is very hard on the eyes, which is why reading on the iphone was difficult (screen size nothwithstanding.) The e-ink used in Kindle (I have one) is exceptionally easy to read on, and even though I'm an Apple fanatic I'll never give up my Kindle, my new can't-live-without-it piece of tech.

[kishin]

I'd say the price will between macmini and cheapest macbook $600~$1000

[Goona]

Dell has machines in price ranges where customer satisfaction barely ever existed. Apple only sells high-end so naturally they will get a higher satisfaction ratings average (a $2500-3500 machine had better damn well be up to scratch).

But Dell has an 18% gross margin, Apple has a 35% gross margin, which means that if you buy a high-end Dell for $2500-3000 you will get one hell of a machine that will leave few dissatisfied. I use two high-end Dells daily and they've been fantastic. But that's not where Dell's volume sales are, their ratings are mostly based on the low-end bargain bin junk they sell to frugal consumers.

I wonder why people don't bring this up when they talk about getting equivalent Dell's for half the price of a Mac.

[DELLsFan]

It's members of web forums who focus on what Apple can't do not Apple themselves. It's a comment Apple made once, then quoted over and over on websites.

Well then, let's hear it, Apple. The unibody thing was pretty snazzy. We know you can figure out how to upgrade graphics and hard drives in your products. I want to hear some more CAN. Stop fooling us with all the CAN'T and WON'T-speak.

:cool:

[DELLsFan]

I guess it depends on someone's definition of perfectly good.

Indeed. For me, I'd pass on anything that had a Celeron processor in it.

[winterspan]

Nope indeed.

First, a speed bump on MBP (from 2.66/2.93 to 2.8/3.06) in July or August.
In January, a new Arrandale-based MBP with USB 3.0.

I really hope the MBPro doesn't end up using (dual-core) Arrandale.. Besides, the far better quad-core Clarksfield will be out during the summer sometime and Arrandale won't be here until 2010.

[Anuba]

I wonder why people don't bring this up when they talk about getting equivalent Dell's for half the price of a Mac.
Half the price? Nah.

75% of the price, sure. A $3000 Dell will give you the specs of a $4000 Mac (Precision T-series vs. Mac Pro).

Dell, 2005:
Revenue - $55.6 billion
18% gross margin
6.4% profit percentage

Apple, 2005:
Revenue - $14 billion
29% gross margin
9.6% profit percentage

So, Apple has a higher profit margin than Dell even after developing OS X and spending $560 million on R&D (Dell spent $463 million on R&D that year). Apple blows a helluvalot more on advertising than Dell does, and that comes straight out of your pocket. Both companies use 2/3 of their gross margin for costs, and the remaining 1/3 is profit.

[AidenShaw]

You do not get it. You can press the T key and then booting to make the Mac a disk and repair it from other Mac. That is Target Disk Mode. You cannot do it with USB. Got it? That is the HUGE difference!

What do you mean? If I connect a USB disk and simply boot - I have full Windows to repair it.

You need another Apple to fix it, I only need a USB drive. I think the Windows solution is a lot less expensive (as usual).

[JonHimself]

In a nutshell, it does exactly what you want a netbook to do: be a reliable internet portal that you can carry around with you. It has most of the bells and whistles that my Macbook has (with the exception of Firewire and, obviously, optical drive) and some it doesn't (SSD, inbuilt card reader and inbuilt 3G).

It functions brilliantly as a small ultraportable OS X machine.

Good points, thanks for clearing it up. Here's why I don't think Apple can/will (whichever you choose) release a $500 computer that they would stand behind (that's what they mean by junk, imo).
Let's take the two most popular options, the true netbook or the tablet. Based on what Apple said about the macbook air (and I know that just because they said it then, doesn't mean they'll say it now) they don't like netbooks because they have to compromise. From that, if they do release a netbook (~10" screen) they're going to want to make sure it can run FULL osx (by that I mean iLife apps, including garageband, imovie, etc). If they can get a laptop that small to run those apps smoothly (which I don't think current hackintoshes can) then it likely will be a result of great product design and/or quality components - end result, a lot more expensive than the current netbooks.
The other option is that because they don't want compromise on functionality, they won't release a netbook (as we know it) and instead release an iPhone/Touch-type device that runs a modified OSX (whether it's like the iPhone/Touch or something with a little bit more flexibility) that isn't a "netbook" (for the reason that it's a closed system) and make sure that it isn't marketed to compete with FULL OS's in pc netbooks but instead of as 'new' (revolutionary, incredible, whatever they use) way to stay in touch on the go... of course in doing so they can't say things like "with a bigger screen" because then they're saying that the iPhone is too small to do what this new product does... basically this new product, if it's a tablet type) will (as some people have said) carve out a new market of devices which will allow them to a) price it at $500 and not be contradictory because it wouldn't be a 'netbook' or b) still price it at 700-1000 because it would multi-touch, thin, well-designed, polished, etc etc.
Either way, I think we're looking at a minimum of $800 with either a netbook type computer that doesn't compromise (which would then likely be $1000 minimum) or a new type of device that does compromise but because of it's "advanced" nature, demands a higher price.

[MacAndy74]

I'd like to believe that Apple will release a Netbook, I could well be interested but in the meantime, this will help...

:D

[ULFoaf]

Fletch33, thanks for the netbook experience report. That Wind sounds mighty nice .... I don't know if I can wait for Apple!

[Benguitar]

My guess on the price if the rumor is true.

600-800 dollars?


I personally need power in my machine, but NetBooks look very cool.

[bananas]

I want my FoxBook with Nvidia Ion chipset and dual core Intel Atom. 3G would be cool. Thank you.

P.S. please deliver it before august.

[Marx55]

What do you mean? If I connect a USB disk and simply boot - I have full Windows to repair it.

You need another Apple to fix it, I only need a USB drive. I think the Windows solution is a lot less expensive (as usual).

Here is the scenario:

- A mac needs repair and you cannot fix it booting from such Mac, which may even not boot at all.

- You turn it on and press the T (for Target) key.

- You see a huge FireWire icon logo on such Mac screen.

- You connect such Mac (working now as a mere disk; no operating system has been loaded) to a healthy Mac.

- You use the healthy Mac to repair the other Mac, which shows as a mere disk on the healthy Mac Desktop.

THAT IS THE MAGIC of Target Disk Mode. There is nothing like it on the Windoze world and it has saved us many times when repairing Macs. It is absolutely great and any --absolutely any-- Mac user may need it sooner or later.

It is impossible to do it with USB.

[nukiduz]

Apple is all about easy of use. To all those who'd like a scaled up iPod touch, how exactly could you use such device? Hold it on your hand and touch OS X? How could you type text? How would you carry it around?
A 10" tablet looks like something Apple would never do. People are buying netbooks like crazy because they can do small tasks just like other netbooks: surfing, emailing and editing documents. So, even if a keyboard-less tablet looks uber fancy, it's not really that practical.

[headfuzz]

Good points, thanks for clearing it up.

No problem :)

if they do release a netbook (~10" screen) they're going to want to make sure it can run FULL osx (by that I mean iLife apps, including garageband, imovie, etc). If they can get a laptop that small to run those apps smoothly (which I don't think current hackintoshes can) then it likely will be a result of great product design and/or quality components - end result, a lot more expensive than the current netbooks.

Just to clarify, my Mini 9 (and MSI Winds and others like them) WILL run all those apps (with the possible exception of iMovie and iDVD), just not as quickly as a Macbook. Of course as mentioned earlier the small capacity SSD's are not ideal for large libraries of photos and the like either.

I think what it effectively boils down to though is that if Apple were to release a netbook as we know them today Macbook sales would go through the floor (and Macbook Air sales would be practically non existent) so the only serious money spent on laptops would be professionals buying the Macbook Pro. And therein lies the problem imho.

Which is a shame because if Apple did release such a machine I think it would encourage more switchers (people are far more likely to spend < $500 on a Macbook Nano than $1000 on the entry level White Macbook if they require a laptop and are curious to try out a Mac) and therefore have an overall positive effect on Mac sales in the long run. Of course, if they released such a machine AND cut the price of the others all units would be selling, but this is Apple, the company who put all their prices UP during the biggest global recession for a century. :rolleyes:

If they do release a device that runs iPhone OS or a similar variant I believe they'll have missed the point entirely.

Time will tell.

[headfuzz]

Here is the scenario:

- A mac needs repair and you cannot fix it booting from such Mac, which may even not boot at all.

- You turn it on and press the T (for Target) key.

- You see a huge FireWire icon logo on such Mac screen.

- You connect such Mac (working now as a mere disk; no operating system has been loaded) to a healthy Mac.

- You use the healthy Mac to repair the other Mac, which shows as a mere disk on the healthy Mac Desktop.

THAT IS THE MAGIC of Target Disk Mode. There is nothing like it on the Windoze world and it has saved us many times when repairing Macs. It is absolutely great and any --absolutely any-- Mac user may need it sooner or later.

It is impossible to do it with USB.

While I agree about the lack of Firewire and this resulting issue being a pain, it should be pointed out that you can still boot from an install DVD from either built in or external drive on the USB bus by holding down the C key while booting to get into an OS X environment and from there use the default utilities that you would otherwise use on the healthy Mac to resolve the issue anyway; repair permissions, repair disk structure, use terminal in root mode to do pretty much anything. Any 3rd party software requires that it be installed on the other Mac to begin with.

Target Disk Mode's only real benefit in this regard is that you don't require an install DVD and you already have somewhere to move/copy files to if need be, which, again is not particularly difficult when using an install DVD; just plug in an external hard drive on the USB bus and move stuff in the terminal.

TDM is a convenient way of performing essential maintenance that is capable of being done by other methods.

[AidenShaw]

TDM is a convenient way of performing essential maintenance that is capable of being done by other methods.

If Target Disk Mode is operable with the CPU or memory removed or failed, then it has an advantage over USB.

If the CPU has to be operable on the system for TDM to work, then either booting the Live CD, a Live USB thumb drive, or the full OS on a USB hard drive would seem to me to be equivalent in functionality.

[iMacmatician]

I really hope the MBPro doesn't end up using (dual-core) Arrandale.. Besides, the far better quad-core Clarksfield will be out during the summer sometime and Arrandale won't be here until 2010.I hope so too, and the recent report of Clarksfield being only 35 W removes the TDP barrier. But speeds aren't exceeding 2.0 GHz, which might mean Apple won't use it (although the Mac Pro dropped in clock speed when going from Penryn to Nehalem).

[headfuzz]

If Target Disk Mode is operable with the CPU or memory removed or failed, then it has an advantage over USB.

If the CPU has to be operable on the system for TDM to work, then either booting the Live CD, a Live USB thumb drive, or the full OS on a USB hard drive would seem to me to be equivalent in functionality.

The computer still requires a CPU and memory to be present and operable for the boot ROM to mount the disk(s) using TDM.

[hashholly]

No problem :)



Just to clarify, my Mini 9 (and MSI Winds and others like them) WILL run all those apps (with the possible exception of iMovie and iDVD), just not as quickly as a Macbook. Of course as mentioned earlier the small capacity SSD's are not ideal for large libraries of photos and the like either.

I think what it effectively boils down to though is that if Apple were to release a netbook as we know them today Macbook sales would go through the floor (and Macbook Air sales would be practically non existent) so the only serious money spent on laptops would be professionals buying the Macbook Pro. And therein lies the problem imho.

Which is a shame because if Apple did release such a machine I think it would encourage more switchers (people are far more likely to spend < $500 on a Macbook Nano than $1000 on the entry level White Macbook if they require a laptop and are curious to try out a Mac) and therefore have an overall positive effect on Mac sales in the long run. Of course, if they released such a machine AND cut the price of the others all units would be selling, but this is Apple, the company who put all their prices UP during the biggest global recession for a century. :rolleyes:

If they do release a device that runs iPhone OS or a similar variant I believe they'll have missed the point entirely.

Time will tell.

First things first, thats not really true, the Wind's and Dell Mini and any other netbook will choke on a Garageband project with multiple tracks when it comes to playback if it doesn't freeze on you first, IMovie, not happening, and IDVD.....your nuts to think you wont be there an entire day to encode, if you even get that far. Now dont get me wrong, netbooks are great for surfing, chatting, maybe listening to music (i've had an aspire one that couldn't smoothly playback itunes), and word processing, but thats about it.

At some point people need to accept that apple sells expensive products, period. You can argue back and forth all day wether its worth it or not, but the fact of the matter is you know this from the start, there is nothing to complain about. Its like walking into a porsche dealership and complaining that you cant find anything as cheap as a KIA...you know better than this. (not directed at you personally, but moreso at the general blah blah blah, they need a cheap Mac ideology)

[polaris20]

If Target Disk Mode is operable with the CPU or memory removed or failed, then it has an advantage over USB.

If the CPU has to be operable on the system for TDM to work, then either booting the Live CD, a Live USB thumb drive, or the full OS on a USB hard drive would seem to me to be equivalent in functionality.

Yeah TDM is neat and all, but I boot off of LiveCD's all the time (either Ubuntu, Knoppix, or UltimateBootCD4WIN) with a USB drive of some sort, and do all I need to do just fine.

If the system's got a bad mobo or proc, then I take the 30 seconds to pop the drive and attach a $20 SATA/EIDE to USB cable. Big. Deal.

[Sehnsucht]

I have Windows 7 and Photoshop on an eeePC Atom with 2 GiB RAM, and it's fine for small stuff. I wouldn't load a 40 MPixel multi-layer project, but I wouldn't want to do that on an MBA either.

I think that people would expect a netbook to be slow at big jobs, but it's nice to be able to do big stuff in a pinch. I'd bring my 6 GiB dual core Win7 x64 laptop if I were expecting to do a lot of Photoshop - but I'd like the option of doing some touchup from the netbook.

My store just starting carrying the Dell mini 10 (woot for employee discounts) :D. Grabbing one of these and hackintoshing it is extremely tempting. I wonder if the HDMI output works under OS X. ;)

[nukiduz]

My store just starting carrying the Dell mini 10 (woot for employee discounts) :D. Grabbing one of these and hackintoshing it is extremely tempting. I wonder if the HDMI output works under OS X. ;)

That Dell is indeed tempting. Its design is the best I've seen from Dell but I think OS X doesn't support its graphic card ):

[andrewdale]

That Dell is indeed tempting. Its design is the best I've seen from Dell but I think OS X doesn't support its graphic card ):

Yeah, everything I've read is that no one has managed to get OS X working on it. Which is a bummer. I love my wife's Mini 9, but it's just too small for my hand. I would need a 10" or 12" screen to be able to work!

[Marx55]

What do you mean? If I connect a USB disk and simply boot - I have full Windows to repair it.

You need another Apple to fix it, I only need a USB drive. I think the Windows solution is a lot less expensive (as usual).

Nope. You cannot boot from a USB because the Mac does not boot. You cannot repair a Mac from Windows.

[danny_w]

You just linked me to something that says $280, which I already said. I don't care what the sale that's no longer existent was. Wow, a Dell Mini with a 4GB drive for $280. What a useless POS. Even if it was $200, it's still useless unless I carry an external drive.

The other place looks beyond shady, and I would never deal with them.

I'm also fully aware of the install sizes of Ubuntu and Windows. You continually ignore what I point out in my signature, that I use those OSes continually.

It doesn't erase the fact that a tiny SSD is useless.
You can quite often get an Acer Aspire One with a 120GB/160GB hard disk for $299. I got mine used for $220 on CL and I love it! Not all netbooks have tiny SSDs (I know that I wouldn't want one).

[Marx55]

While I agree about the lack of Firewire and this resulting issue being a pain, it should be pointed out that you can still boot from an install DVD from either built in or external drive on the USB bus by holding down the C key while booting to get into an OS X environment and from there use the default utilities that you would otherwise use on the healthy Mac to resolve the issue anyway; repair permissions, repair disk structure, use terminal in root mode to do pretty much anything. Any 3rd party software requires that it be installed on the other Mac to begin with.

Target Disk Mode's only real benefit in this regard is that you don't require an install DVD and you already have somewhere to move/copy files to if need be, which, again is not particularly difficult when using an install DVD; just plug in an external hard drive on the USB bus and move stuff in the terminal.

TDM is a convenient way of performing essential maintenance that is capable of being done by other methods.

Install DVDs may not have the latest software. Sometimes it is needed to run several different applications in a row to fix a disk, which you cannot do booting from a different bunch of CD or DVD. You need a functional CD or DVD driver and you may need many of such disks with you all the time, which again may not be updated.

With Target Disk Mode, you have it all with a single click. The difference may be reparing or not repairing the Mac. That simple.

[JonHimself]

Install DVDs may not have the latest software. Sometimes it is needed to run several different applications in a row to fix a disk, which you cannot do booting from a different bunch of CD or DVD. You need a functional CD or DVD driver and you may need many of such disks with you all the time, which again may not be updated.

With Target Disk Mode, you have it all with a single click. The difference may be reparing or not repairing the Mac. That simple.


I'm not entirely sure I understand either side of this side-argument, but from what you said it sounds like Install DVDs *might* not be the best option and *may* need to be updated otherwise it's possible that it *could* be harder to boot from discs *some of the time*. To me, it sounds like discs are still an *option* just not necessarily the easiest, or best.. but an option nonetheless.

Does the image on the firewire disk also not have to be up-to-date? From what I remember when I had to have my ibook fixed, after the Apple Genius used the firewire drive to re-install osx (or whatever it was he did) I still had to run a bunch of software updates because he didn't have the most recent 'image' (again, I'm not entirely sure I even know what I'm talking about, so try not to focus on that if I am to be scolded). I'm not sure if that's what you mean about install dvds not being up-to-date and requiring additional updates after the fact.

[olternaut]

Where the hell are the Apple spies when you need them? Remember thinksecret? We need some spies to leak some more apple info on this mystery product!

[AidenShaw]

(i've had an aspire one that couldn't smoothly playback itunes)

I've seen octo-core Xeons stutter on Itunes - it's such a pig on Windows it's unreal. ;)


Nope. You cannot boot from a USB because the Mac does not boot. You cannot repair a Mac from Windows.

You mean that Windows can boot from a USB hard drive or flash drive, but that marvelously advanced UNIX-based OSX can't?


Install DVDs may not have the latest software. Sometimes it is needed to run several different applications in a row to fix a disk, which you cannot do booting from a different bunch of CD or DVD. You need a functional CD or DVD driver and you may need many of such disks with you all the time, which again may not be updated.

With Target Disk Mode, you have it all with a single click. The difference may be reparing or not repairing the Mac. That simple.

And the system on the USB hard drive wouldn't be up-to-date?


Where the hell are the Apple spies when you need them? Remember thinksecret? We need some spies to leak some more apple info on this mystery product!

ThinkSecret's mole was really Steve Jobs !

Now that Steve's out of the picture, he doesn't know what's going on, so there are no more leaks.

Therefore, everything that you read is made-up fiction.

[olternaut]

I've seen octo-core Xeons stutter on Itunes - it's such a pig on Windows it's unreal. ;)




You mean that Windows can boot from a USB hard drive or flash drive, but that marvelously advanced UNIX-based OSX can't?




And the system on the USB hard drive wouldn't be up-to-date?




ThinkSecret's mole was really Steve Jobs !

Now that Steve's out of the picture, he doesn't know what's going on, so there are no more leaks.

Therefore, everything that you read is made-up fiction.

Don't kid yourself. Steve is still ruling over Apple right from his sick bed. His brain is hooked into a telepathic enhancement device a la cerebro so he can continue his mind control over the Apple collective.
Resistance is futile!

Seriously though. We need someone to recruit an Apple employee as a spy. Or at the very least we need someone from China or Korea to sneak into Foxconn's facility and take a few spy shots. All without being shot themselves of course. :D

[JonHimself]

Don't kid yourself. Steve is still ruling over Apple right from his sick bed. His brain is hooked into a telepathic enhancement device a la cerebro so he

It should come as no surprise then that within the last few months I've read about brain-controlled twitter and a brain-controlled robot (or something). Seems fishy that as soon as Steve can no longer physically be at the Apple building that I have seen a way for someone to control a robot (or perhaps a replica) from a different location as well as be able to send simple commands (perhaps commands less than 140characters) by using only their brain... hmm....

[danny_w]

You mean that Windows can boot from a USB hard drive or flash drive, but that marvelously advanced UNIX-based OSX can't?
I think what he meant was that the Mac in this theoretical situation is dead and cannot boot. However, the Mac in this case would still be usable in Target Disk Mode. It simply allows the hard disk of the dead Mac to be used as an external drive to another Mac (or actually any computer with Firewire).

[danny_w]

Yeah, everything I've read is that no one has managed to get OS X working on it. Which is a bummer. I love my wife's Mini 9, but it's just too small for my hand. I would need a 10" or 12" screen to be able to work!
You must not be reading much then. The Dell Mini 9 is supposedly one of the easiest of all non-Mac notebooks to install and run Mac OS X on.

EDIT: Sorry, I thought you were talking about the Mini 9, not the 10. My mistake.