PDA

View Full Version : The Best Way for Apple to Go:


MacManiac1224
Dec 5, 2001, 07:48 PM
I have a few ideas of what is going down at MWSF. These ideas seem the most logical for Apple to do:
I think if new iMacs come out, they will come with G3's on the low end, and a G4 on the high end. My theory is this: Why would Apple take G4 to or near it's limits if it's ultimate goals is to put the G4 in a desktop model? They have to leave room for the G4 to scale in Megahertz. If this occurs, hopefully the G5 will debut in the Pro models. This would be logical. I think if Apple releases the new iMac, they have to do better then just a new enclosure and new hard drive space. They should put a G4 in it to put the icing on the cake. This leaves room for the G5.
Sum up:
New iMac's with G4 in high end
New Power Mac's with G5's

*Not sure about speeds on any processors.

oldMac
Dec 5, 2001, 08:18 PM
G4s are more expensive processors than G3s. G3s are in fact, quite cheap, which makes them ideal for placement in low-end machines.

If it's true that Apple is going to release an LCD iMac in January (I still have my doubts), then they are going to need to work hard to keep the price down with that fancy & expensive LCD panel in there.

Apple can't afford to make the iMac more expensive. In fact, I think it ought to be a couple hundred dollars less than it is now.

Look for 700MHz - 1GHz G3s in January's iMac models.

ThlayliTheFierce
Dec 5, 2001, 08:22 PM
I agree with OldMac: G3's will probably still be in the iMac, but they will be at much faster speeds. While lcd's are cheaper, they still cost more than CRT's, and if Apple intends to have a low-end iMac at $999 (which is a magic number for some reason), they'll need to compromise in other areas.

eyelikeart
Dec 5, 2001, 08:26 PM
$999 is a magic number because it's "under" $1000...

ThlayliTheFierce
Dec 5, 2001, 08:33 PM
I read something on the Register about how $999 computers outsell $799 computers. Users will pay for the extras, but over $1000 is too much.

Falleron
Dec 6, 2001, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by oldMac
G4s are more expensive processors than G3s. G3s are in fact, quite cheap, which makes them ideal for placement in low-end machines.

If it's true that Apple is going to release an LCD iMac in January (I still have my doubts), then they are going to need to work hard to keep the price down with that fancy & expensive LCD panel in there.

Apple can't afford to make the iMac more expensive. In fact, I think it ought to be a couple hundred dollars less than it is now.

Look for 700MHz - 1GHz G3s in January's iMac models.

Wait a minute! Once the G5 is out the G4 should drop in price??

Foocha
Dec 6, 2001, 06:13 AM
DESKTOPS
Speed-bumps for existing Quicksilver G4's to 1.4Ghz single processor, 1Ghz dual processor and 867Mhz Single Processor. All machine come with Superdrive.

IMACS
Entry level iMac has same form factor as current iMacs, indigo color, 600Mhz G3, retailing at $799
Mid range iMac with new LCD based all-in-one metal and white plastic enclosure 800Mhz G3 $999
Top range iMac, same enclosure as mid range, 1Ghz G3, Optional Superdrive & hardware MPEG compression for iDVD

jefhatfield
Dec 6, 2001, 08:35 AM
now that is what i really want and i bet that would really sell, even if it was 1600 bucks or more

i hope the entry level imac stays below 800

deusvede
Dec 6, 2001, 05:47 PM
I agree with Foocha. That'll be Apple's new machines on MWSF without doubt.

Falleron
Dec 7, 2001, 02:24 AM
IF Apple can, they will take the whole PowerMac range over the Ghz Barrier!

ThlayliTheFierce
Dec 7, 2001, 03:12 AM
I'm with you Jef about the sub-$800 iMac. If they put out LCd iMacs, they should offer the older style on the very low-end, especially for schools. And a $1600 iMac with Superdrive? I have my doubts, but that would definitely sell a lot of computers!

AmbitiousLemon
Dec 7, 2001, 03:22 AM
good list... think its what most of us have been expecting since the whole no g5 thing, but i am wondering one lil thing. the g4s will see a speed bump up to about 1.4 ghz right? with lower end g4s at 1ghz or just below. g3s will scale up to 1ghz. seems like the g3 is beginning to crowd the g4 in mhz. o sure we all know mhz doesnt mean a thing, but if the g4s are barely creeping past the 1ghz barrior and the g3s seem to be charging right past it, what does this mean for the future of the g3s and g4s?

maybe motorola will ask the ibm r&d department to take a few months off. i think this is just more evidence that motorola is seriously hurting apple. either apple needs to buy up motorola's semiconductor department and have ibm buy the g4 patents or apple needs to ditch the g4 all together and just ask ibm to create a next generation chip to be called a g5 or g6.

Foocha
Dec 7, 2001, 03:34 AM
The rumors we're seeing seem to indicate that Apple is getting more involved in designing the chips (if MOSR is still credible!!)

Chip design is a nice area for Apple to be in, chip manufacturing is not. If Apple go their own way in designing the chip, they need a good partner to do the production.

Who could be better than IBM as a production partner, if only they could get IBM to buy into that whole AltiVec thing.

AmbitiousLemon
Dec 7, 2001, 03:49 AM
hey foocha, do you remember reading a rumor a couple weeks back about the apple-motorola dispute that suggested that amd had been courting apple? i dont think there is anything to such a rumor but i found it pretty interesting that people fabricating these rumors are thining potencial partners in future chip designs.

whenever i build a mac or upgrade a mac i try to incorporate as many ibm components as i can. i never buy a mac anymore unless its got an ibm hard drive. ibm, like apple makes top quality stuff. i think ibm would be apple's best bet (and most likely) but its neat to think about some other less likely partners.

sparkleytone
Dec 7, 2001, 09:02 AM
$999 is a magic number, but they are going to have to do much more than a 500MHz iMac with 64MB RAM and 20GB Hard Drive.

Compaq has a machine out for $999 with a p4 1.5 with 256MB RAM and a 40GB HD with CDRW and DVD drives. Now i know that it doesn't come with a monitor but you can package that with a monitor that ends up being $90 after rebates. Their $749 model also has 256MB RAM.

In short, Apple needs to do more for $999. If they just upped the RAM it'd be nice being that 64MB is NOTHING.

spikey
Dec 7, 2001, 10:49 AM
Well im glad someone noticed what i have been saying for the past 2 months.

Ofcourse moto is being pushed by IBM. IBM put more money into it than moto.

Moto's designs have been a bit flawed, the 7400 was flawed in design. And recent chips have been ok but havent taken the G4 much further in either speed or clock speed.
However motos G5 looks good, and although they have made mistakes they have produced some good chip designs.

At the end of the day its about what goves apple the best future. Which is why personally i would go IBM.

jefhatfield
Dec 7, 2001, 11:53 AM
spikey,

isn't funny how many of us mac users first saw ibm as the enemy, then microsoft, and now wintel?

gee, who will our next competitor be?

eyelikeart
Dec 7, 2001, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
spikey,

isn't funny how many of us mac users first saw ibm as the enemy, then microsoft, and now wintel?

gee, who will our next competitor be?

Dean Kamen and his amazing Ginger!

ThlayliTheFierce
Dec 7, 2001, 05:05 PM
Sparkely-no kidding. The first iMacs sold well because they were cheap and relatively powerful for the time. This is no longer the case now. If Apple can't make an LCD iMac with AT LEAST 128 mb ram and 3 gig hd for $999, then they shouldn't take out CRT iMacs at the low end... I know this is probably not what will happen, but Apple needs to have a low-priced consumer targeted computer all the time.

oldMac
Dec 7, 2001, 09:48 PM
MOSR was at one time credible? :)

Ensign Paris
Dec 8, 2001, 07:58 AM
What will happen if the LCD prices rise while the new iMac is selling? Will it revert to CRT?

Guy

mnkeybsness
Dec 8, 2001, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Falleron
Originally posted by oldMac
G4s are more expensive processors than G3s. G3s are in fact, quite cheap, which makes them ideal for placement in low-end machines.

If it's true that Apple is going to release an LCD iMac in January (I still have my doubts), then they are going to need to work hard to keep the price down with that fancy & expensive LCD panel in there.

Apple can't afford to make the iMac more expensive. In fact, I think it ought to be a couple hundred dollars less than it is now.

Look for 700MHz - 1GHz G3s in January's iMac models.

Wait a minute! Once the G5 is out the G4 should drop in price??


just because something new comes out, doesn't mean that an earlier product will drop in price. it all depends on supply and demand and production costs. if apple were to create mass quantities of the G4 and they actually would sell, then they would drop in price, but they are very expensive to make yet.

mnkeybsness
Dec 8, 2001, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by eyelikeart
Originally posted by jefhatfield
spikey,

isn't funny how many of us mac users first saw ibm as the enemy, then microsoft, and now wintel?

gee, who will our next competitor be?

Dean Kamen and his amazing Ginger!



DOUBT IT!!!!!!!

mnkeybsness
Dec 8, 2001, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Ensign Paris
What will happen if the LCD prices rise while the new iMac is selling? Will it revert to CRT?

Guy

it's very doubtful that LCD prices will rise-if you were to look at the price points per certain amount of screen material, you will notice that they have been steadily dropping in price, and nearing the price of crt montiors of the same sizes, just not apple's lcd screens are making the price cuts as often.

AmbitiousLemon
Dec 8, 2001, 06:49 PM
quote:

Originally posted by Ensign Paris
What will happen if the LCD prices rise while the new iMac is selling? Will it revert to CRT?

Guy



"it's very doubtful that LCD prices will rise-if you were to look at the price points per certain amount of screen material, you will notice that they have been steadily dropping in price, and
nearing the price of crt montiors of the same sizes, just not apple's lcd screens are making the price cuts as often."

also hopefully these new lcdimacs will sell well which would mean increased demand for the 15"lcds inside inside of them and hopefully mean the prices will continue to drop.

mnkeybsness
Dec 8, 2001, 07:25 PM
demand does not drop prices. increased supply drops prices. which means that more companies need to start investing in lcds. when more companies start producing them, we will have more, thus...dropping prices.

people need to study simple economics more.

reddrop
Dec 8, 2001, 07:50 PM
iMac (revised LCD based system, white like iBook)
-Fast ($999)
-800mhz G3
-nVida Geforce2Mx 32mb VRam, 1 ADC port
-128mb Ram (max 2gb)
-CD-RW (4X2X24) or DVD (4X24)
-10/100 Ethernet
-Optional Airport2 Card
-2 USB2 ports, 2 Firewire2 ports
-Faster ($1299)
-Same as Fast but with:
-900mhz G3
-CD-RW (8X4X32) or DVD (8X32)
-Fastest ($1499)
-Same as Faster but with:
-1ghz G3
-nVida Geforce2Mx 64mb VRam, 1 ADC port
-256mb Ram (max 2gb)
-CD-RW/DVD (12X10X40X12)
Power Mac G4 Cube (revised metalic like enclosure)
-Fast ($1699)
-1ghz G4
-nVida Geforce3Mx 64mb VRam, 2 ADC ports
-256mb Ram (max 2gb)
-CD-RW/DVD (12X10X40X12)
-10/100/1000 Ethernet
-Optional Airport2 Card
-2 USB2 ports, 2 Firewire2 ports, 1 Gigawire port
-Fastest ($1899)
-Same as Fast but with:
-ATI Radeon2 64mb DDR VRam, 2 ADC ports
-1.2ghz G4
-512mb Ram (max 2gb)
-DVD-R (2X12X10X40)
Power Mac G5
-Fast ($2499)
-1.2ghz G5 (64 bit, 32 bit backwards compatible)
-512mb DDR Ram (max 4gb)
-DVD-R (2X12X10X40)
-10/100/1000 Ethernet
-Optional Airport2 Card
-2 USB2 ports, 2 Firewire2 ports, 1 Gigawire port
-Faster ($3099)
-Same as Fast but with:
-1.4ghz G5 (64 bit, 32 bit backwards compatible)
-1gb DDR Ram (max 4gb)
-DVD-R (4X24X12X40)
-Fastest ($3599)
-Same as Faster but with:
-1.6ghz G5 (64 bit, 32 bit backwards compatible)
-1.5gb DDR Ram (max 4 gb)
-DVD-R (8X24X12X40)

AmbitiousLemon
Dec 8, 2001, 08:20 PM
reddrop...

very optimistic january line up. i think apple fans like us would all be incredably excited if you are right.

let me try to dive into your thinking here.

lcd imacs: because all the rumors are pointing to it. not much imagination needed here.

g4 cubes: moto needs apple to keep making g4 computers. moto announced apollo g4 chips and they have to go in something. too expensive for imacs and if we want g5s then we need to bring back the cube. weve all been talking about a new cube but there hasnt been any rumors indicating this will happen, but we can always hope.

g5 powermacs: some rumors have been talking about the g5 like it was definitely going to happen. we were all upset when we heard about the apollo, but if we put the apollo in a cube (big if) maybe then we might still get a g5 powermac. not sure why after being so optimistic you went with the 1.4ghz for the top model but i dont think it matters much to any of us considering how much we want a g5.

well reddrop i (and probably every one here) would love to see this prediction come true. also i think your lineup really is apple's best bet. with the indroduction of a g5 powermac and the continuation of g3s in a lcd imac this finally provides room for a cube.

oldMac
Dec 9, 2001, 12:05 AM
LCD prices could rise, though it is unlikely. Look at what RAM prices have done over the past 10 years.

They've been up and down with the fortunes of companies and fires and explosions and typhoons.

While the general trend certainly supports the prices coming down, stuff can happen to make it a bouncy ride.

Regarding the laws of supply and demand... It's not just some kind of magic formula.

Supply of LCD displays will only go up if the demand and profit potential is there. And the demand will only go up if the prices get lower. At this point, the balance is only shifted by lower production costs (which is thankfully happening).

My point is simply that if Samsung went out tomorrow and made a billion LCD displays the price would go down, but Samsung won't do that because of that whole self-preservation thing.

jefhatfield
Dec 9, 2001, 10:30 AM
what he says is right

have you seen what the majority of computer stores are like now?

there are more and more lcd monitors on the shelves and this indicates that there is probably a larger supply out there

the prices are "crawling" down about fifty to seventy five dollars every three months or so and that may not be quick enough to warrant a cheap enough lcd imac by january 2002

when i first saw a 15" inch lcd monitor it was in late 1999 and it went for over fifteen hundred dollars, the following year i saw it dip below a thousand, and now it is below four hundred dollars and there will be a chirstmas time rebate which will make this same 15" lcd monitor just $349.95 at office depot...so my guess is by next summer in 2002, this monitor will be $199.00 and we will definitely have lcd imacs

when lcd monitors fall below one hundred dollars, then there will be no more crts around except for high end crts for color critical graphic design machines and for video work

but i still hope that apple will make that rumored lcd imac next month

[Edited by jefhatfield on 12-09-2001 at 11:46 AM]

mnkeybsness
Dec 9, 2001, 11:15 AM
i'm glad someone else still knows a few things about the real world and a little logic.