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tgl
May 11, 2004, 11:50 AM
http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=8717125&storeId=1&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=73&catalogId=-840

Oh god, if this only had OSX instead of XP it would certainly make me pull out that credit card regardless of price.
Apple really needs to upgrade laptops again as this baby unfortunatelly makes current Apple offerings look weak (again). Where the hell are those G5 powerbooks - if they have them ready they better release them now cause I'm itching really bad for this (even with huge XP handicap, this almost looks too good to be true).
Or if IBM would please convince Adobe to please release Photoshop for Linux - that would work as well... (please no flames - I just want a decent version of portable unix with fast
Photoshop performance on hardware that does not burn my skin and has screen that
you can view from at least some angle - am I really asking for that much here?)

RiseAgainst
May 11, 2004, 12:06 PM
Okay, i understand that this is a good machine and all. But I wouldnt say that it makes apple loptops look outdated. The machine is not that much over the top. Granted it has a FireGL vid card, but thats a 3d card. It also has a smaller HDD. And the fact that it about $4,700 doesnt help much.

Versello
May 11, 2004, 12:09 PM
That's one ugly-ass laptop.

Flowbee
May 11, 2004, 12:29 PM
Oh god, if this only had OSX instead of XP it would certainly make me pull out that credit card regardless of price.

So you register on a Mac forum and on the same day make your first post about an IBM laptop?? Ok...

Anyway, I find it funny that people here are drooling over a $4,700 IBM notebook. Imagine the huge outcry and anger on these forums if Apple released a G5 2Ghz Powerbook tomorrow and it cost $4,700!!

tgl
May 11, 2004, 01:03 PM
So you register on a Mac forum and on the same day make your first post about an IBM laptop?? Ok...

Anyway, I find it funny that people here are drooling over a $4,700 IBM notebook. Imagine the huge outcry and anger on these forums if Apple released a G5 2Ghz Powerbook tomorrow and it cost $4,700!!

Good to see you have looked up to make sure I'm (not) a troll.
Seriously, I have been wanting to justify buying an apple laptop for so long now
(I currently have older thinkpad - love the hardware but hate the software)
but the heat plus lack of speed on powerbooks is still holding me back (I have spent several hours in the Apple stores playing with photoshop on 12, 15, and 17 models
(both B and C revs) but unfortunatelly that feels just as slow as my several years
old thinkpad (T22). What I really want is a unix laptop that also runs photoshop fast
and does not burn my lap. But unfortunatelly such beast does not exist.
As far as price, you are right people would complain - but Apple laptops with
those specs and battery life would fly of the shelf even at that price
(I know I would buy one).

ingenious
May 11, 2004, 01:53 PM
that is one ugly laptop.

FuzzyBallz
May 11, 2004, 02:10 PM
Hmmm... funny you people are dissing IBM ThinkPads. It just so happens the ThinkPad don't break apart when you accidently drop it on the floor. And it just so happens IBM includes a complimentary 3 year warranty on the ThinkPad, free. Now, that's something you don't hear from buying an Apple product everyday.

But damn, that's an expensive laptop. Makes the Apple PBs look cheap.

jxyama
May 11, 2004, 02:13 PM
Good to see you have looked up to make sure I'm (not) a troll.
Seriously, I have been wanting to justify buying an apple laptop for so long now
(I currently have older thinkpad - love the hardware but hate the software)
but the heat plus lack of speed on powerbooks is still holding me back (I have spent several hours in the Apple stores playing with photoshop on 12, 15, and 17 models
(both B and C revs) but unfortunatelly that feels just as slow as my several years
old thinkpad (T22). What I really want is a unix laptop that also runs photoshop fast
and does not burn my lap. But unfortunatelly such beast does not exist.
As far as price, you are right people would complain - but Apple laptops with
those specs and battery life would fly of the shelf even at that price
(I know I would buy one).

get a 15/17" PB with 2 GB RAM. that will fly your photoshop, at least faster than T22. if you are willing to pay $4500 for the IBM, then you can certainly afford those 2 GB RAM modules.

increased RAM will also improve heat issues because a lot of heat comes from HD spinning and less paging will reduce that as well.

store machines are usually very low on RAM. so i am not sure if you want to use them to gauge their performance.

musicpyrite
May 11, 2004, 02:17 PM
That's one ugly-ass laptop.

I'm sure that not everybody buys a PowerBook/iBook for thier looks.

I don't care what my computer looks like (because I do custome mods), if tommrow Apple started exporing X to Windows, I would buy a DuLL.

ingenious
May 11, 2004, 02:18 PM
Hmmm... funny you people are dissing IBM ThinkPads. It just so happens the ThinkPad don't break apart when you accidently drop it on the floor. And it just so happens IBM includes a complimentary 3 year warranty on the ThinkPad, free. Now, that's something you don't hear from buying an Apple product everyday.

But damn, that's an expensive laptop. Makes the Apple PBs look cheap.

ive dropped my 12" PB and it hasnt broken. Ive dropped it several times (im not THAT clumsy :D) and it hasn't broken. at least apple cares about eye appeal. and they are macs!!!

Versello
May 11, 2004, 03:08 PM
Hmmm... funny you people are dissing IBM ThinkPads. It just so happens the ThinkPad don't break apart when you accidently drop it on the floor. And it just so happens IBM includes a complimentary 3 year warranty on the ThinkPad, free. Now, that's something you don't hear from buying an Apple product everyday.

But damn, that's an expensive laptop. Makes the Apple PBs look cheap.

It's still one ugly-ass laptop no matter how durable ThinkPads are.

Mantat
May 11, 2004, 03:26 PM
Its true that IBM make good laptop BUT: they are expensive and noisy (I am typing from one at work right now) and heavy.

Second, if you are a PS poweruser, why are you working on a laptop? Real user use tower so they can max ram and use fast SATA drives. If you are just using PS for the fun of it, well.. you can wait 3-4 more sec for each filter.

Finaly, I dont see why you are impressed by this laptop. Yes it has a good video card (which is only really good for 3D) but thats about it. For the same price, you can get a G5 dual and an iBook which is a much better deal IMHO. And even better you could use network render to quicken the hole thing (not 100% sure about that).

I am a bit borred about people who think that PB are desktop replacement. I know that Jobs talked about it a bit but they never well be close to that. When you buy a computer, you have to see what your needs are and get a computer that fill your need. Not get a laptop because you can use it in a café to show up. I know because thats what I do: spend a few hours a week programming in front a cup with the bright apple logo visible to anyone in the room :-). It sound a bit show-off but at the same time, I got two contract this way!

varmit
May 11, 2004, 03:54 PM
Its almost 5 grand buddy. God damn. Get a 17 inches for that price. Max out the 17 inch and you only get 4 grand. What you get with Apple, 2 gigs RAM, 80 gig hard drive, Superdrive, and 128 on the graphics and 17 inches. Your IBM laptop only has .5 ghz over the PB, and it has been shown that those GHz don't mean anything, that the PPC can do the same work at less ghz. Why do you think IBM uses PPC in their server line, because its better.

tgl
May 11, 2004, 04:10 PM
Its true that IBM make good laptop BUT: they are expensive and noisy (I am typing from one at work right now) and heavy.

Second, if you are a PS poweruser, why are you working on a laptop? Real user use tower so they can max ram and use fast SATA drives. If you are just using PS for the fun of it, well.. you can wait 3-4 more sec for each filter.

Finaly, I dont see why you are impressed by this laptop. Yes it has a good video card (which is only really good for 3D) but thats about it. For the same price, you can get a G5 dual and an iBook which is a much better deal IMHO. And even better you could use network render to quicken the hole thing (not 100% sure about that).

I am a bit borred about people who think that PB are desktop replacement. I know that Jobs talked about it a bit but they never well be close to that. When you buy a computer, you have to see what your needs are and get a computer that fill your need. Not get a laptop because you can use it in a café to show up. I know because thats what I do: spend a few hours a week programming in front a cup with the bright apple logo visible to anyone in the room :-). It sound a bit show-off but at the same time, I got two contract this way!

Whether or not laptop can replace desktop is personal decision and it can be
based on any of the following (need to compile, want snappy machine, want to show off,
etc - I don't question what motivates other people to buy whatever they decide).
For me, I'm convinced that 1-2 years from now there will be either apple (hopefully)
or linux laptop that will process canon 1ds 11meg files as fast as most of the best
desktops do today - at that point your argument that desktop and laptop should be viewed
as two different animals will no longer hold any water (for me, as applications I care about
will run fast enough at that point - but still don't now).

To justify upgrading/switching (for both laptop and desktop) I need the following:
1. comparable processor/bus speed
2. comparable heat
3. comparable screen resolution
4. comparable HD speed

I feel that I could switch to powermac and get all or most of these but not for
powerbooks.
Unfortunatelly, I really planed to update my laptop first and pace of improvement
of powerbooks really disapoints me (as I said I have been going to Apple store for a while
and I really don't see any significant improvement between current offering
compared to previous (rev B) - other than faster DVD burning and somewhat better
graphics card).

It looks like my lurking days around these boards are not about to end until
next powerbook and powermac come out. Until then I'll continue to enjoy reading
all the wild predictions - mac community is quite something, even by the standards
of someone who normally hangs around linux boards.
Thanks for listening.

radhak
May 11, 2004, 04:10 PM
There is nothing to drool about with the t42. i have worked on one(not my own), and it did not make my heart go mushy. For all my purposes, it was just as fast as any other latest machine. A really good machine, but nothing to make it stand out in a crowd. Like all thinkpads, it is sturdy, but then, it looks it too ;)
But even a t42 heats up, and i would not base my purchase just on heat/no heat. yes, adobe products would run better on this than on a pb, but i thought that was well known (Adobe not very cuddly with Apple...)

If your main objective of using a computer is Adobe photoshop, and only a notebook will do, then you have to buy something like this, and grin-and-bear-it. I too will need to buy a wintel soon for my job-related apps. But i shall try and not advertise that ;)

But for 5K, you could get some serious hardware anywhere you turn. I wish i had that much to burn : with what i have, a P4-3000 desktop with an LCD screen looks nice enough to me.

jxyama
May 11, 2004, 04:12 PM
It's still one ugly-ass laptop no matter how durable ThinkPads are.

i happen to think thinkpads are one of the best designed laptops... other than Mac laptops, i think thinkpads are the best looking. if i had to buy a windows laptop, i'd definitely go for thinkpads.

krimson
May 11, 2004, 04:26 PM
i'd rather have a 15" PB and a cinema display for that pricetag...

Versello
May 11, 2004, 04:27 PM
Its almost 5 grand buddy. God damn. Get a 17 inches for that price. Max out the 17 inch and you only get 4 grand. What you get with Apple, 2 gigs RAM, 80 gig hard drive, Superdrive, and 128 on the graphics and 17 inches. Your IBM laptop only has .5 ghz over the PB, and it has been shown that those GHz don't mean anything, that the PPC can do the same work at less ghz. Why do you think IBM uses PPC in their server line, because its better.

Ehhh, the G4's are outdated. And even tho it's just ".5GHz over the PB" as you mention, the thinkpad does have Centrino after all... so yes, like you say PPC's perform more instructions per clock, the same goes for the centrino. In performance is probably comparable to a 2.8~3.0GHz pentium.

But anyways, I'd rather buy a 12" powerbook (like what I have now) and save the rest for a G5 powerbook.

rueyeet
May 11, 2004, 04:35 PM
i happen to think thinkpads are one of the best designed laptops... other than Mac laptops, i think thinkpads are the best looking. if i had to buy a windows laptop, i'd definitely go for thinkpads.Most businesses and tech pundits would agree with you. IBM is one of the better built and more reliable laptops on the PC side, whatever anyone thinks of their looks (actually IBM is said to keep them black and blocky on purpose, for brand recognition).

Of course, they've got a price to match....now, I wonder why doesn't IBM have to fend off the outcry of the tech press complaining how much more expensive an IBM laptop is than a similarly configured Dell? :p

On the original topic...I think the Powerbook heat thing is a bit overreported; mine's never given me too much grief on that score. Snappiness is definitely one of those subjective things that's kind of in the eye of the beholder, but I agree with jxyama that maxing the RAM will improve both performance and heat issues.

Personally I am happy to trade the minimal lack of responsiveness that I can discern on my PowerBook (which still has only the stock RAM) for not having to run Windows...but then, that's my home machine, not a production environment. In your case, I can see that nothing less than a G5 may do. Though, I don't think anyone else who's waiting on the Powerbook G5 would disagree with you that sooner would be nicer than later. :)

JasonElise1983
May 11, 2004, 04:40 PM
no offense, but this is the biggest piece of crap i've ever seen. You seem to be wanting a laptop, that will out perform any desktop you put it against. For the same price, you could get an Alienware ora Voodoo, and it would slaughter that machine. You can replace the video card in the alienware, and Voodoo makes one with three hardrives that you can run in a RAID. They also go up to 3.4Ghz P4's with 800mhz FSB. If you want some crap ass windows machine, there you go. I like IBM thinkpads, but for the price, that just isn't worth it. Personally, i would get a PowerBook 15" and go with it. Its fast enough for me.

tgl
May 11, 2004, 04:52 PM
no offense, but this is the biggest piece of crap i've ever seen. You seem to be wanting a laptop, that will out perform any desktop you put it against. For the same price, you could get an Alienware ora Voodoo, and it would slaughter that machine. You can replace the video card in the alienware, and Voodoo makes one with three hardrives that you can run in a RAID. They also go up to 3.4Ghz P4's with 800mhz FSB. If you want some crap ass windows machine, there you go. I like IBM thinkpads, but for the price, that just isn't worth it. Personally, i would get a PowerBook 15" and go with it. Its fast enough for me.

You missed the points (all of them). I want a fast laptop that DOES NOT RUN
WINDOWS. Even though I love the way this thinkpad both looks and the other
specs I will NOT buy another windows laptop (or desktop) for personal use.
I was just admiring the hardware and dreaming about unix and photoshop
running on it. Price is not an issue - I would pay 2K more to run unix on any
machine (but not at cost of burning my knees and waiting for screen to redraw).
Bottom line, I can't really buy anything yet and have to sit it out until
apple comes out with something better, or adobe starts magically running on linux.

PowerMacMan
May 11, 2004, 05:14 PM
I don't like it---At all! :mad:

Crikey
May 11, 2004, 07:17 PM
Yes, it's ugly, but if I had to buy a PC laptop, I'd look hard to find a ThinkPad I could afford. Their reputation for sturdy reliability is unmatched.

Yes, it's expensive, but it has a 2.0GHz Pentium M CPU that isn't even shipping yet. That may prove the equal of the 3.4GHz desktop Pentium 4 CPU in most real-world applications. And, it looked like they were saying it has a 15" 1600x1200 screen. Wow. And, you'll probably be able to find this notebook for less money at some reseller like www.cdw.com.

For somebody who needs that kind of mobile performance, it might be worth $4600. For me, I'd get a Rev B. G5 tower and a Cinema display, or an iBook and a pile of music gear.

Cheers,


Crikey

BrianKonarsMac
May 11, 2004, 09:03 PM
That's one ugly-ass laptop. They haven't changed the design since the early 90s. What's wrong with IBM? Do they not understand...this laptop looks like $#!@ with IBM stamped on it. o well, if it sells.

legion
May 11, 2004, 09:12 PM
There is nothing to drool about with the t42. i have worked on one(not my own), and it did not make my heart go mushy. For all my purposes, it was just as fast as any other latest machine. A really good machine, but nothing to make it stand out in a crowd. Like all thinkpads, it is sturdy, but then, it looks it too ;)
But even a t42 heats up, and i would not base my purchase just on heat/no heat. yes, adobe products would run better on this than on a pb, but i thought that was well known (Adobe not very cuddly with Apple...)

If your main objective of using a computer is Adobe photoshop, and only a notebook will do, then you have to buy something like this, and grin-and-bear-it. I too will need to buy a wintel soon for my job-related apps. But i shall try and not advertise that ;)

But for 5K, you could get some serious hardware anywhere you turn. I wish i had that much to burn : with what i have, a P4-3000 desktop with an LCD screen looks nice enough to me.


LIAR! The T42's were announced on Monday and won't ship for 2 more weeks at the earliest. No one has them yet so how did you "work on one."

Typical BS.

legion
May 11, 2004, 09:27 PM
I'm with tgl on this one. It's 1"thick and the weight is 5.8lbs with dvd-burner, 15" 1600x1200 screen with 170degree viewing angles, lasts over 7 hours on one battery charge, and has the best video card on the market. Plus, the 1GB it ships with is a solid 1GB stick which means you still have an open slot to add more. The hard drive is also the fastest on the market (7200rpm) (which is why they aren't giving you the largest which only is available at 5400rpm) This is a model to be a real workhorse (2GHz, 2MB L2 cache, 21watt max usage)

The 14.1" version of the T42p at 1400x1050 resolution is 4.9lbs and gives you a larger desktop than the 17"PB (1440x900) and is close to being the same weight as the 12"PB (4.6lbs) while having a better battery life and performance near to the top-of-the-line desktops.

This is the reason there isn't an outcry over IBM's prices.. they give you performance, and charge for it, but they also give you reliability and top-flight specs. No nickel and diming in the longrun.

As for looks, it's classic black with a matte black finish. Sure the script kiddies won't be ooh-ing and ahh-ing, but anyone with refined taste will respect its looks. Plus, in a boardroom, understated elegance is better than flash-in-the-pan shine.

legion
May 11, 2004, 09:29 PM
They haven't changed the design since the early 90s. What's wrong with IBM? Do they not understand...this laptop looks like $#!@ with IBM stamped on it. o well, if it sells.

It's also in the Museum of Modern Art for its design... (actually a few thinkpads are, including one for the "butterfly" keyboard and one of the originals for the black-squared-off design)

invaLPsion
May 11, 2004, 09:33 PM
This laptop is nothing.

Check out the Go L laptops, now those are AMAZING.

fBaran
May 11, 2004, 11:14 PM
No FireWire either.

radhak
May 11, 2004, 11:31 PM
LIAR! The T42's were announced on Monday and won't ship for 2 more weeks at the earliest. No one has them yet so how did you "work on one."

Typical BS.

Oops :o

No, i definitely did not 'work on' the T42. Rather, it was the T41p that my friend had bought in December. I guess all thinkpads look the same to me, as do their nomenclature. I apologize.

jackieonasses
May 12, 2004, 01:16 AM
tpl...i cant really understand your first posts ever on a mac forum is about a ibm.....

but that thing is expensive....and ugly.....

aussie_geek
May 12, 2004, 03:42 AM
Sorry people, that laptop stinks. I wouldn't be seen dead with that!! It has a tray loading cd drive for goodness sake.

tgl
May 12, 2004, 06:33 AM
tpl...i cant really understand your first posts ever on a mac forum is about a ibm.....

but that thing is expensive....and ugly.....

It's not that strange if you think about it. I have not had a mac up until now
and until it had unix on it never even looked at it. But since OSX came out
I have been seriously considering switching (so it is natural i'm comparing
against things I'm more familiar with). I'm just waiting for the right laptop
to come out (speed, heat, resolution, battery life, video performance, options on
par with the best in wintel world, or at least close to performance of current
powermacs for applications like photoshop - such hardware exists in wintel
world already and t42p is a great example of that in my opininon - therefore
my post in the first place - and this is a general apple and tech discussion forum, no?). Unfortunatelly, I'll have to wait a little bit longer for apple to release something comparable.
But I'm not really complaining (I will not buy t42p since XP is too much to
swallow, and adobe will apparently still not port photoshop to linux - and Apple
can't be that far off from releasing something like this - maybe a year?).

thatwendigo
May 12, 2004, 09:23 AM
This laptop is nothing.

Check out the Go L laptops, now those are AMAZING.

With about half an hour of battery life. :rolleyes:

I mean, do you honestly buy their marketing hype, but not read the components? There's no way to cram a P4EE, high-speed RAM, four HDs (which means no optical drive), and a top-end graphics card under the hood and have it be cool, let alone light or capable of being taken from the wall for long.

Take the time to understand what you're advocating, please.

The Hollywood GOLD! (http://www.go-l.com/laptops/hollywood_gold/features/index.htm)

I mean, come on... A Prescott? In a laptop? With a 256MB 9700 Mobile? What kind of fans are they using? "Studio quality" audio? Decent studio monitors cost as much as a laptop. Meanwhile, they're cramming in six speakers and a subwoofer, along with a camera? Three hard drives?

Ah, and then you get the same experience you do with anything else at their site. Go the to the store and you'll find the only models with a P4EE are the top two, and they start at over $6000.

"Premium" model with the P4EE:
Intel Pentium 4EE 3.4ghz with 2MB L3 cache +$1405
17" Screen that meets their advertized display ratio (1680x1050) +$639
2GB PC3200 RAM +$1399
2 80GB HDs (5400 RPM with RAID) +$661
2x DVD+/-RW +$259
802.11g Wireless "Turbo" +$149
Bluetooth +$99
Cost: $9,600+

A more reasonable attempt:
Intel Pentium 4EE 3.4ghz with 2MB L3 cache +$1405
17" LCD (1440X900)
512MB PC3200
80GB HD (5400RPM)
2x DVD+/-RW +$259
802.11g Wireless "Turbo" +$149
Bluetooth +$99
Cost: $6,693

You can max out a 17" PowerBook, get a top of the line iPod, an iSight, an AE Extreme Base Station, a DV Camcorder, FincalCut, Keynote, a kevlar security lock, a Brenthaven bag, two extra batteries, a printer, and still have change with the same cash as the second one. Oh, and those two spare batteries mean that you have something like 7-10 hours of battery life, which is about a billion times more than you're going to get with that monster.