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arn
Jul 2, 2002, 06:47 PM
Think Secret has an article (http://thinksecret.com/news/editorialpressaccess.html) reporting that Apple is denying press credentials from any rumor-oriented Mac sites:

From the mail we've received, it appears that Apple, its convention partner IDG World Expo, and public relations company Manning Selvage & Lee have stepped up their efforts to squash "rumor" sites by denying them credentials.

syntax
Jul 2, 2002, 07:05 PM
This is so bogus. Companies owe a certain amount of transparency to the government and to shareholders (if that applies), but they don't owe transparency to random busybodies. Now, I love Mac rumor sites, but are ThinkSecret actually trying to convince us that Apple owes them living by allowing them to spill all its trade tidbits ahead of time? Poor argument.

eddively
Jul 2, 2002, 07:40 PM
This sort of splits me a little. I see this being both positive and negative, but one thing I would like to point out is wrong. They said the media relations with Apple are at an all time low, but yesterday on Macnn.com (i believe) posted that Apple is on the top 10 most covered companies (positively). So, they can't being doing too badly in that area.

sjs
Jul 2, 2002, 07:48 PM
The author to that article has fallen victim to the "victimization" of America.

"Woe is me. I run a little ole web site that allows people to post their random thoughts. Occasionally I post a link to someone else's random thoughts. I cannot bekieve Apple won't give me press credentials to MWNY. Why, the New York Times and Washington Post will be there! Why can't I get in free, too? It's not fair!"

Give me a break. This is a nice, well run web site. The "press" it ain't. Note that Arn's not complaining...he's too busy building this business. Apple will spend millions on MWNY and deserve to limit the free entrants to real news organizations.

groupeone
Jul 2, 2002, 07:56 PM
Forgive me for throwing water on the passionate commentary by Think Secret. I'll admit to spending way too much time on the Mac rumor sites. I'm always fascinated and appreciative for what they discover, but I approach them at the same time with a note of skepticism at what are often total flights of fantasy, or at worst sheer posturing for what they would like to see.

It should come as no surprise to the rumor site operators that Apple will jealously defend its right to privacy, even secrecy over its intellectual capital. While the sites certainly stir interest and speculation, by speculating incorrectly, the sites can falsely raise expectations to unreasonable levels (iWalk or G5, anyone?). And that can damage Apple's credibilty. Further, is it any surprise that Steve Jobs and others at Apple like to control the flow of news, or prevent spoiling good surprises?

Freedom of speech may be a God-given right in the United States, one we tend to take for granted. But there is no absolute right that a company must make its trade secrets transparent for all to see. Following this argument, a press pass is a priviledge, not a right. Ditto for news access. Until such a time as the courts mandate that equal access must be given to rumor sites as mainstream news media, the passionate arguments of Think Secret simply lack merit.

Sorry guys. I love a lot of your reporting. But you and your rumor site bretheren must be aware that this is part of the risks of your business. It will make dumpster diving somewhat more difficult, but there is a price of doing business in every trade, including rumor mills.

buffsldr
Jul 2, 2002, 08:09 PM
This wouldnt bother me if apple had not used "Rumor Sites" as part of its marketing campaign for MWSF.

wsteineker
Jul 2, 2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by buffsldr
This wouldnt bother me if apple had not used "Rumor Sites" as part of its marketing campaign for MWSF.

I'm really forgetful, so prompt me here. How did Apple use rumor sites as part of its marketing campaign for MWSF? Just asking... :)

buffsldr
Jul 2, 2002, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by wsteineker


I'm really forgetful, so prompt me here. How did Apple use rumor sites as part of its marketing campaign for MWSF? Just asking... :)

My bad, i didnt explain that well.

The week before MWSF, apple had a new slogan every day on its web site. One day they had "Beyond the rumor sites, way beyond."

I felt that by referencing the rumor sites, they were reaching out to their loyal fans. I thought it was cool. Now this. It doesnt really bother me, but security is their thing, rumor sites increase sales, dont they?

SPG
Jul 2, 2002, 08:18 PM
Maybe what Apple meant when they ran the banner "Beyond the Rumor Sites, Way Beyond" was that free access to Steve and all his press information was now way beyond their reach!

Ibjr
Jul 2, 2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by buffsldr
This wouldnt bother me if apple had not used "Rumor Sites" as part of its marketing campaign for MWSF.

MWNY is not MWSF, they have 2 different atmospheres, especially contrasting Bohemian SanFransico with NewYorkish New York ;)

gazelips
Jul 2, 2002, 08:20 PM
:(

Ibjr
Jul 2, 2002, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by gazelips
They used the phrase "Beyond the rumor sites... way beyond." as part of their marketing hype leading up to the intro of the G4 iMac.

How is that using the rumor sites? Its not at all. It alludes to the sites, that is not "using", the rumor sites are known as outlandish, so they used a contemporary reference.

After seeing how certain “regulars” post here, its no wonder apple refuses to think of "rumor sites" as press… These rumor sites are like NewsMax....

This site isn't the press, its rumors!

Kid Red
Jul 2, 2002, 08:32 PM
I don't see a problem with this. Apple is saying "look, if you spread rumors about what we might or might not release, it won't be a surprise". I think that Think Secret is more full of it by claiming this tatic to be "Blackmail". That's humorous at best. What does the judicial system do when a no gag order is violated? Jail time. Rumors are bad for business. If you wanted a machine today but a rumor said a new one will be out in 3 months, you'd wait or a majority would. That hurts Apples sales.

I do enjoy rumors tho:) Just think Think Secret is pissed about something. If it ain't payback, then don't say it ain't.

G4scott
Jul 2, 2002, 08:41 PM
I think that Apple is doing this so that they can squeeze more real press into the keynotes, instead of having rumor people who will know everything eventually, if not before the keynote. They're just probably trying to get better press coverage.

Besides, can't they get into the keynote anyways? They don't need their press passes, they just need to register... And what's wrong with watching it over the internet? I'll be doing that until I can afford to go to a Mac World, which will probably be quite some time.

IndyGopher
Jul 2, 2002, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by buffsldr


My bad, i didnt explain that well.

The week before MWSF, apple had a new slogan every day on its web site. One day they had "Beyond the rumor sites, way beyond."

I felt that by referencing the rumor sites, they were reaching out to their loyal fans. I thought it was cool. Now this. It doesnt really bother me, but security is their thing, rumor sites increase sales, dont they?
God no!
Rumor sites most assuredly do NOT increase sales. They keep touting what will come next, which encourages people to wait for the eternal 'next thing' instead of buying what's here today. I don't think they do any real damage, mind you, but they absolutely do not increase sales.

dricci
Jul 2, 2002, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by IndyGopher

God no!
Rumor sites most assuredly do NOT increase sales. They keep touting what will come next, which encourages people to wait for the eternal 'next thing' instead of buying what's here today. I don't think they do any real damage, mind you, but they absolutely do not increase sales.

Maybe if Apple would release the 'next thing' people want, then the rumor sites would stop for a while and sales would pick up :rolleyes: :D

dricci
Jul 2, 2002, 09:15 PM
And of course the rumor sites don't expect press passes... RE READ THE ARTICLE... it's saying legit sites (that are unnamed, I'm guessing MacNN, MacCentral, MacMinute) risk being basically banished from MacWorld keynotes if they even HINT at a popular rumor or rumor sites... Macrumors and Spymac and ThinkSecret and such are not expecting press passes... they're just trying to speak for the "big" sites that Apple is basically blackmailing so the sites can't speak for themselves.

drastik
Jul 2, 2002, 09:21 PM
I don't buy this one. Apple can't giv press sites to everyoen who asks, It'd be like giving ot superbowl passes to every spors fan, except MacWorld tickts cost, much, much more. My guess is, Apple is a little mifed about all this precoverage od Jaguar. Not to mention, if they are reading arond here, the large numbe who already have Jaguar probably anges them

3rdpath
Jul 2, 2002, 09:23 PM
just buy a pass and be done with it...

its a write-off so get over it.

apple doesn't owe ZIP to any mac related sites!

btw, is apple going to ban Time-Canada's press pass?...just wondering

:D

dricci
Jul 2, 2002, 09:33 PM
/me sighs :o :(

Nebrie
Jul 2, 2002, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by drastik
I don't buy this one. Apple can't giv press sites to everyoen who asks, It'd be like giving ot superbowl passes to every spors fan, except MacWorld tickts cost, much, much more. My guess is, Apple is a little mifed about all this precoverage od Jaguar. Not to mention, if they are reading arond here, the large numbe who already have Jaguar probably anges them

Read the article, you have no idea what you're talking about.

iapple
Jul 3, 2002, 12:01 AM
Well, just look at that stupid rumor of a 1.5 GHz G4 at MWNY!! THese are the things that piss Apple off! So, if a 1.5 GHz G4 isn't released, people are dissapointed, the stocks go down, people don't buy the 1.2GHz G4 that's released, eternally waiting for the "next big thing".

motive8
Jul 3, 2002, 12:14 AM
Anyone read macworld magazine lately? it's as thin as a pamphlet. Apple should just buy the magazine since it's ads make up by far the lions share of the ad base. Oops, just thinking out loud.
Now it seems to me--and I've been a writer for both macworld, macweek and macUser--that any place that has information about Mac's should let them into trade shows. They let me in and i'm a frigging anarchist. So are all the great Mac lovers. Rungdren used to be there giving out party passes with Bebe Buell in tow. Harry Anderson used to wander the aisles. I've partied with Primus and Herbie Hancock backstage at Metacreations parties at the exploratorium, and Chris Isaaks at the Radius party.
And who could forget the Ingram-Micro parties with Morris Day?? Was i the only one dancing? And it was all cuz i got a press badge. A press badge got me places no one else could go. I saw Jobs picking his nose and yelling backstage. I saw Michael Eisner pulling his underwear out of the crack of his ass in a hotel bathroom. I saw Kai Krause drop so much acid that the entire Haight Ashbury lit up like a christmas tree in deference.
See, a press badge is not just a reason to write smack about apple. it's about the free food at all the preview suites at the marriot. It's about the ass kissing ritual of PR and press. it's about the poopie that gets stuck on the noses of all the evangelists. Its a community gathering. It's a freak show. And the poor schmucks like me who have given their lives to espousing this machine and covering it come hell or high water (or clones and low stock price), should have access to the circus known as Macworld.

Give me lithium, or give me meth! LET THE PASSES FREE!!!

(For a fictional account of the Macworld expo at its peak, please email me for the infamous download of my timeless story: "Fear and Loathing at Macworld 1996". I guarantee you will try and bumrush the door after doing so. Send me an email at motive8@aol.com for the story.)

beatle888
Jul 3, 2002, 01:30 AM
motive8

why are you up so:o early in the morning?

dizzypope

Matthé
Jul 3, 2002, 03:16 AM
Can you say:'reverse psychology'?

nadroj
Jul 3, 2002, 03:21 AM
Great, magnificent, bravo Apple!

Protect yourself however you need to. Rumor sites don't even need press credentials, and don't deserve them! The press is for NEWS, not rumors. So stop whining Think Secret, or I'll lose the small amount of respect I still have for you and all rumor sites.

Macrumors is good because it has an excellent board, many updates, and doesn't claim to be the possesor of all knowledge in the universe. Stay as you are, and to the rest, shape up!

syntax
Jul 3, 2002, 03:27 AM
I think the majority sentiment here is that it's hypocritical of a dumpster-diver like Nick DePlume of ThinkSecret to express moral outrage at Apple's legitimate business prerogative.

Right?

redAPPLE
Jul 3, 2002, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by buffsldr


My bad, i didnt explain that well.

The week before MWSF, apple had a new slogan every day on its web site. One day they had "Beyond the rumor sites, way beyond."

I felt that by referencing the rumor sites, they were reaching out to their loyal fans. I thought it was cool. Now this. It doesnt really bother me, but security is their thing, rumor sites increase sales, dont they?

rumor sites just increase the amount of drool the janitors need to weep off :D

lighten up people. life is unfair. let's all try to deal with it.

i guess, rumor sites increase the hype and enthusiasm. but i don't really the majority of rumor site readers would buy the best, fastest, coolest mac as soon as it gets announced.

dernhelm
Jul 3, 2002, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by syntax
I think the majority sentiment here is that it's hypocritical of a dumpster-diver like Nick DePlume of ThinkSecret to express moral outrage at Apple's legitimate business prerogative.

Right?

More or less - yes. I didn't read the whole article, so I'm not sure he was expressing "moral outrage" which may be a bit strong, but his whining certainly is ridiculous.

I kind of hope it works, though. If some rumor site can get a free pass to MWNY, why not my son who writes for his elementary school paper? I'll start expressing outrage that Apple is ignoring the contributions of youngsters - maybe we can get a father-son pass or something.

:D

eyelikeart
Jul 3, 2002, 09:02 AM
first...I'm surprised this is the first time they've actually made a move like this...

second...isn't it a bit ironic how they made fun of the rumor sites in their teasers...now they are shunning them?

makes u wonder why exactly...?!

hestres
Jul 3, 2002, 09:03 AM
I think Apple has a right to try to keep its plans under wraps untill they feel it's appropriate to roll them out. Having control over this information is important for a company's ability to implement its marketing and sales strategies. It's not like Apple is trying to hide a bogus balance sheet, like WorldCom or other companies. If sites like ThinkSecret or Mac Rumors (which I read every day and love) happen to find out a nice juicy piece of gossip about Apple, more power to them...but they can't seriously expect Apple to just roll over and give away the game!

jg3
Jul 3, 2002, 09:27 AM
Just to add to what most of you have been saying, I can hardly believe that Nick dePlume thinks he has an argument at all. The article was almost enough to make me give up on reading ThinkSecret at all. Apple absolutely has the right to protect its intellectual property, using any legal means necessary, which obviously includes denying press passes to organizations that have, in its opinion, mishandled Apple's intellectual property in the past (which, I might add, Apple gave to them as a priviledge in the first place - or if not, that they freaking stole). Totally unbelievable.

mymemory
Jul 3, 2002, 09:35 AM
Is Bill Gates behind all this?

What is going on with Apple?

Rocketman
Jul 3, 2002, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by buffsldr


My bad, i didnt explain that well.

The week before MWSF, apple had a new slogan every day on its web site. One day they had "Beyond the rumor sites, way beyond."

I felt that by referencing the rumor sites, they were reaching out to their loyal fans. I thought it was cool. Now this. It doesnt really bother me, but security is their thing, rumor sites increase sales, dont they?

Yes but only because most readers are lurkers and read with HEAVY filtering. There is so much outright whining and attacking of Apple on rumour sites they will NEVER link to them from their web page since it would open their well groomed customer message to such things as, "damn Apple for not releasing the G5's in Titanium books last week", when the G5 is not even made in sufficient quantity for Apple to offer if they wanted to, and the issues of putting a server chip in a portable are almost insurmountable, and the person(s) posting are completely void of logic or perspective to begin with.

Even my relatively well thought out posts are not fodder for posting frenzies in reply because they are not provocative enough.

Perhaps if there were a MODERATED rumour site Apple would appreciate it. But what fun would that be? Then we could not have live, real-time, posting frenzies going on, on every inconceiveable tangent,well, conceivable.

Rocketman.

http://v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

God will not let me have it, so here it is.

drastik
Jul 3, 2002, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Nebrie


Read the article, you have no idea what you're talking about.

My point still stands, if apple wants to deny The New York Times Press credentials, they can. This isn't a free event, and anyone apple wishes to deny free entry, well, they just have to pay. As for my idea about apple being miffied, well, I would be. Jaguar s holding a lot of us on the line, looking for the big update. I know apple wants some press for it, but probably not the whole thing given away.

In re the people with JAguar comment, that was a joke meant for the people on the site who have "seen" JAguar from a "Friend."

I don't get into flame wars, but think about what your syaing before you say someone doesn't know what they are talking about. being Rude will get you nowhere.

drastik
Jul 3, 2002, 09:48 AM
Also, If I remember correctly, DePlume is around what seventeen years old? Its somewhere in the "how old are you thread." Anyway, as far as I know, he's a young guy, so I say give him a break for being a whinny little snot. A lot of the younger people here are mature and understanding, that doesn't mean that all of them are. He's wrong on this count, Apple has done nothing unethical. Think secret is still a pretty good site though, we're just spoiled because Macrumors is the best.

deanb
Jul 3, 2002, 09:51 AM
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,338390,00.asp

So is eWeek wrong too? This is not about rumor sites being denied, this is about sites being called rumor sites to justify canning them...

Think Secret is merely barking for those of us who Apple has by the balls, they are not bemoaning their media passes, they know THEY don't get them. But there are sites that Apple is now canning media for that ARE NOT RUMOR SITES.

For example, Applelust.com is certainly not a rumor site. We're all reviews and long-winded articles that more often than not critize rumor sites. We were granted media passes for the last MacWorld Expos, and in fact for this upcoming one in NY... Until this Monday, when they were revoked because Apple cracked down on 30+ sites, and said we fell under the category of "rumor site". Some sites were denied not because they were rumor sites, but because a page linked to one at any point in its history.

And those that write for more than one site, even one Apple may deem legit, may be denied passes because of their employee relation to a suspect entity.

That's called "blacklisting" folks, and there's a reason some of these other major news sites are scared to report anything on it- they know it will happen to them (notice that MacObserver, MacCentral...etc has avoided even mentioning this, but thankfully relative giant eWeek has he balls to let their commentary run. Think Secret just used their platform to speak up for those of us under the gun, because they have nothing to lose... The rest of us have already lost.

sedarby
Jul 3, 2002, 09:57 AM
Is it really that suprising that Apple would try to control information about new products? I believe it is par for the course for Jobs to want to control everything given the show he seems to like to put on at these Expos.:cool:

Ibjr
Jul 3, 2002, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by deanb
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,338390,00.asp
That's called "blacklisting" folks, and there's a reason some of these other major news sites are scared to report anything on it- they know it will happen to them (notice that MacObserver, MacCentral...etc has avoided even mentioning this, but thankfully relative giant eWeek has he balls to let their commentary run. Think Secret just used their platform to speak up for those of us under the gun, because they have nothing to lose... The rest of us have already lost.

Oh we know the truth *play suspense music* a grand conspiracy, we are brave for publicizing long winded articles.

Heh, for all we know apple is about to do a major announcement, but one that needs to be carefully controlled. What apple is doing is great; you have to control the story. Organizations that post rumors will not be spun, so they can not be used.

And for those of you who keep bringing up freedom of the press, or speech? That’s protection from the government, not a corporate entity.

I think a satire site needs to write a story about how the rumor sites were denied entrench to Job’s birthday, but using real “rumor site” quotes.

Added: entrench is not a typo.

Ibjr
Jul 3, 2002, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by deanb
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,338390,00.asp
And those that write for more than one site, even one Apple may deem legit, may be denied passes because of their employee relation to a suspect entity.


Isn't that proof that they are not the "press"? I want to see Zane host Fox news and CNN at the same time!

chubakka
Jul 3, 2002, 11:06 AM
The rumor sites aren't banned from attending the keynote...
or Mac World for that matter... they're just not getting PRESS PASSES.

I don't know what the big deal is. Rumor sites aren't news sites...
they don't run benchmarks or review products. They're fun to read
and try to guess what's next but that's about it. I can see why apple
doesn't encourage them. It diminishes the impact of their press events
and when way off base creates false product anticipation.

and anyway... if you're a rumor site... don't you already know what's going
to happen? why do you even need to attend?

dricci
Jul 3, 2002, 11:13 AM
Nobody is claiming the rumor sites are the press.. They're not even claiming it.. they're saying The Bigger Mac News Sites That Do Not Focus On Rumors, Just Actual Reporting may be banned for even doing some investigative reporting or even having a link to a rumor site somewhere in their article or site.

Please re-read the whole thing and comment on the article, not the other comments. :o

drastik
Jul 3, 2002, 11:32 AM
Allright, I read the article again...
It still doesn't say that these sites cannot go to MacWorld. It just says that they can't go for free. As was mentioned before, its a write off for them anyway, so its next to free even if they pay. Should apple pay for their plane tickets and hotel too? Come on, now. This article is entirely unsubstaniated. There is no real evidence, just a bunch of vauge references to threats from Apple against some misterious news source. Furhtermore:

Because it denies you the right to know, and it is a right

This is ridiculous. You have absolutely no right to know. Nowhere are you gaurunteed the right to know a COMPANIES CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION, by anybody. Companies are required to file certian forms and reports, and Apple does so. Further than that, they can tell you or not. IF they tell one person and no one else, the info affects the stock price, and that person trades on their knowledge, its illigal and they go to jail. This is why people who test the new machines sign confidentiality agreements, which are perfectly legal and quite binding.

But this statement is ridiculous for another reason. They aren't denying them information anyway, they simply are not paying for them to get it. The info is free, they can watch the broadcast. If they want to be there in person, they can pay.

Sorry to go off, but this seems pretty cut and dry. People keep saying read the article, I've read it three times, now. Its a crappy article, its arrogant and badly written. But it doesn't say that these companies are being denied entry, they just aren't being granted free entry.

chubakka
Jul 3, 2002, 11:36 AM
They're not being banned. They're not getting PRESS treatment.

Face it if a journalist or news site turns to a RUMOR site for info or a story then they are hurting their standing as a news source.

Apple should and does tightly control information. As they should.
Apple has been burned by rumors and bad press. It's bad enough
that they get scant recognition or praise in the Tech press.
But to have rumor sites steal thier thunder... that's more salt in the wound.

deanb
Jul 3, 2002, 11:45 AM
hello, this is not about the rumor sites, but about the regular mac news sites...

and having your credentials pulled is a BIG deal, this isn't about getting in free (look, an exhibits pass is less than $20)- but if you don't have credentials, you can't meet with vendors, and some of these sites have strong relationships with vendors that will now be questioned if not terminated.

plus, a journalist without credentials, much less one who has had them denied, will have a hard time finding work in their industry, especially if they're blacklisted.

and again, this is not about people who even rely on rumor sites or quote from them. apple is not being very picky here, they are outright banning small to medium sized mac industry press under the "rumor" guise- Applelust is a perfect example, how in the heck could anyone get us mixed up with a rumor site? And yet we, and a gaggle of others were banned. There is your example...

No one is saying Apple can't protect its secrets, but you have to remember, this is not Apple's expo, it's IDG. There's a huge conflict of interest when an exhibitor is pulling rank on sites they feel are questionable, but that have already been given credentials by a wholly separate firm hired to check for legitimacy and credentials- that means that legitimate press are having already given cred revoked...

Ibjr
Jul 3, 2002, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by dricci
Nobody is claiming the rumor sites are the press.. They're not even claiming it.. they're saying The Bigger Mac News Sites That Do Not Focus On Rumors, Just Actual Reporting may be banned for even doing some investigative reporting or even having a link to a rumor site somewhere in their article or site.

Wow, FEMA just might use terrorist attacks to establish a NWO, but until we have evidence of this it’s a non-issue, so until we find a few of the “The Bigger Mac News Sites” being denied press passes it is a non-issue too.

Ibjr
Jul 3, 2002, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by deanb

No one is saying Apple can't protect its secrets, but you have to remember, this is not Apple's expo, it's IDG. There's a huge conflict of interest when an exhibitor is pulling rank on sites they feel are questionable, but that have already been given credentials by a wholly separate firm hired to check for legitimacy and credentials- that means that legitimate press are having already given cred revoked...

And what would happen to MacWorld NY if apple stopped showing up... MWNY is as much apples as it is IDG's

deanb
Jul 3, 2002, 12:00 PM
...that's under the gun right now. It will come out. It's not my right to say on others, but I can certainly talk about my personal situation, which is pretty convincing proof to me.

deanb
Jul 3, 2002, 12:01 PM
What would happen if Apple didn't show up? Ask our European posters who went without Apple for their expos for awhile.

Ibjr
Jul 3, 2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by deanb
What would happen if Apple didn't show up? Ask our European posters who went without Apple for their expos for awhile.

I hope that was a joke, Mac needs an east coast Expo. They would have another eastcoast Expo and MWNY would lose its thunder.

chubakka
Jul 3, 2002, 12:03 PM
applelust counts as a news site? they need credentials?

They haven't even updated their site this week...

Just because someone has a site and "reports" on all things mac
doesn't give them the clout for press credentials.

drastik
Jul 3, 2002, 12:04 PM
being denied press pases is a big deal, however, if a relationship between a site and a vendor exists, and it is a real relationship, the vendor will still talk to the site.

Chubakka is right, any journalist who relies on rumors for information is not reporting news, they are reporting rumors, makig the site, by default, a rumor site. If the site is antirumor, the editorial policy should be not to use rumors as information. period. IF a site doesn't have an editorial policy, as amny of them do not. Then they aren't really press.

I think the only time rumor sites or rumors should be included in a "news article," is when it is in the past tense, such as "verifying rumors of a new product, apple introduced the new iMac today..."

I stand by my superbowl analogy. I worked for an online magzine for awhile, and one of my duties was to write about pro football. This was a small site, one that got maybe a few hundred hit a day if lucky. There is no possible way that NFL was going to give me a press pass to the superbowl. I could still go, and I did go, to the tune of $400 and it was the best money I ever spent.

jg3
Jul 3, 2002, 12:08 PM
Those of you who have reminded us that this is more about the false labeling of news sites as rumor sites for the purposes of banning them are right to do so, but I stand by what I said before. Why would Apple go out of its way to inconvenience people who (supposedly) just post news and reviews? I honestly think it goes back to what I said before: "[Apple is] denying press passes to organizations that have, in its opinion, mishandled Apple's intellectual property in the past." Like it or not, they have the right to do this, for any reason they see fit. Sure, it really blows for the organizations that get banned. But Apple is not banning people from getting press passes for the heck of it - why would they? These sites must have done something to get on Apple's bad side (or at least become slightly less-favored, as one person mentioned, they might want to reserve spots for bigger news orgs.), even if it's something as seemingly innocuous as posting a link to a rumor site or rehashing the rumors even with skepticism. If you want to keep in good standing, stay as far away from anything related to rumors as possible! It surely stinks for those people, but Apple is entirely within its rights.

deanb
Jul 3, 2002, 12:49 PM
We update every friday, BTW...

Review sites can and have gotten media passes, heck even The Mac Mind did when I wrote for them...

Applelust covered MWSF- and met lots of vendors whose products we review...yaddayadda... and now, relatively inexplicably, we weren't considered media even after being issued credentials for MWNY 02 already.

Whether you like Applelust or not, feel they are news or not-- would you call Applelust a rumor site? Do you think the decision to pull credentials after issuing them, two weeks before the event with plane tickets bought and reservations made is the time to do so?

Applelust writers write for more than a handful of sites- connect the dots, those sites are now being blacklisted as well. This isn't just about Applelust. This is a corner of the industry being pinned down and cut away. Several very large sites are currently appealing, as are we, and you better believe you'll hear from them if they are turned down again.

If they want to deny us credentials when we apply- fine. We'll have to live with that. But when we're issued them, it's well within OUR right to be suspicious and angry when they are suddenly revoked.

blackpeter
Jul 3, 2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by sjs

Give me a break. This is a nice, well run web site. The "press" it ain't. Note that Arn's not complaining...he's too busy building this business. Apple will spend millions on MWNY and deserve to limit the free entrants to real news organizations.

Hear-hear!

Mac DV
Jul 3, 2002, 02:36 PM
It is evident through the zealot like pursuit of all those who even drop a link to a rumors site, that this is the witch hunt of a crazed genius about keeping all the tricks in his magic bag.
Steve is just pissed about folks trying to steal his thunder. It's one of his trademarks. He obsesses for weeks about all the big events: copy, presentation, etc.
Like when Radeon spilled some beans before a Mac World, and then all of a sudden powermacs we equipped with Nvidea cards. I read The Second Coming of Steve J a few months ago. According to Mr. Deutchman, Mr. Jobs is very capable and rather has an aptitude for this sort of outburst.
I think it's great. It pisses some people off, and that's terrible. But nevertheless, it is indicative of the great character at the helm of such a phenomenal company.

Mac DV out

deanb
Jul 3, 2002, 03:09 PM
one more note:

The Applelinks article that broke the story on this banning (as it was happening to some of us) and was featured on MacSurfer, has disappeared.

It's still listed here:
http://www.applelinks.com/news/yesterday.shtml

But isn't in full where it should be here:
http://www.applelinks.com/articles/2002/07/20020702002901.shtml

It's not hard to imagine it's been muscled out. The whole subject will either be snuffed out over the weekend, or blown totally up. Not sure which, depends on the cahones of those yanked around by Apple.

iwantanewmac
Jul 3, 2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by iapple
Well, just look at that stupid rumor of a 1.5 GHz G4 at MWNY!! THese are the things that piss Apple off! So, if a 1.5 GHz G4 isn't released, people are dissapointed, the stocks go down, people don't buy the 1.2GHz G4 that's released, eternally waiting for the "next big thing".


EXACTLY!
it's never enough............for most people anyway...........
since apple began it has always been like this and it will ALWAYS be like this......if apple this if apple that.......get over it.
And they will ALWAYS be playing "catch up" with the wintel world.
Just buy 1 if you need 1. I did......

drastik
Jul 3, 2002, 03:39 PM
Apple people are apple people because they like the machines and the OS. Unless you have some overidding (financial need) to cut a few seconds of a process here and there (and I'll admit, that does add up over a day) then nay computer available today is plenty fast enough. Surfing and word stuff, that takes no processor power, if you want faster games, buy a console, they are built with a specific archetecture to handle games. I'm tired of hearing people whine about speed. You need speed in serious math intensive stuff. You need speed in video, but people in Video on Macs do so because they like the platform and the software is par excellent. If you need all of that raw power, build a cluster (easier on a mac, btw.)

Jeesh! Its like owning a Mercedes, its well built and it works well adn it rarely has problems. So it doesn't go a huindred and seventy miles an hour, how often do youneed it to?

beatle888
Jul 3, 2002, 04:19 PM
drastik

your obviously not a power user, (predicted response.....em sOo!).

drastik
Jul 3, 2002, 04:58 PM
if you mean I don't do a lot of math intensive processes, you're absolutely correct. I do run a lot of video through my machines (for a living) however, and of course I wish they were faster. Of course, the top line Macs are faster than mine. You missed my point, most people aren't power users, and those who are should act accordingly. Everyone wants better systems, but for most, there is plenty of power under the hood.

ooooo.power user, I better bow down.
snob.

Geert
Jul 4, 2002, 07:01 AM
So some of the rumorsites hit the nail on the head then.
that's option one.
Option two would be that the specs are way higher than they will actually reveal at NY.

Scott McCarty
Jul 4, 2002, 10:27 AM
Heh, heh.
So many people think that a media pass is nothing more than a free ticket to the Expo floor. Some people even think that an exhibits pass gets you into the keynote, and so what if you just watch the keynote on the Web... what a laugh.

Read on and learn something...

Re: Apple's assault on the First Amendment...
A number of people have pointed out (correctly) that Apple denying press passes to selected individuals or media outlets *Is not a violation of the First Amendment.* The First Amendment is quite specific in stating that government may not interfere in the freedom of expression.

However...
It *is* an assault on on the spirit and intent of the First Amendment. Many journalists consider any attempt by any large organization to control the content of media outlets, directly or indirectly by coercion, to be an affront to the spirit of freedom of the press.

Given that wider definition, my original statement that "the First Amendment is under assault," stands. I never said Apple's action in this situation was "unconstitutional," "illegal," or a "violation of the First Amendment." BUT, It is just wrong. I can still write whatever I want, but I am being excluded from important, first hand media events, due to a perception of the nature of the content that I produce. This is blatant coercion of the media as a whole to tailor their content to the pleasure of Apple.

It is not just GraphicPower...
Many, many Mac centric Web sites have been blacklisted for nothing more than making commentary on a rumor on someone else's site. I am not at liberty to list the sites that I know are blacklisted. Most of them are still trying to get their media credentials reinstated, so they are keeping a low profile. Just as many sites do not even know that they are blacklisted, either because they did not pre-register, or they simply have not been informed yet. I spoke with one Web editor yesterday who did not know that his site was blacklisted until another editor attempted to register. I even received my media badge yesterday, but I know that if I was to go to the Javits Center to get the badge holder, that I would be denied.

Re: Whether this is quibbling over a free pass...
Obviously, this poster has no idea of the plethora of benefits of a media pass. To begin with, media has their reserved area to wait for entrance into the keynote, and their own reserved seating area for the keynote. The keynote is the media focal event of the Expo, for cryin' out loud. An exhibits only pass DOES NOT ADMIT YOU TO THE KEYNOTE. Even if it did, you would be stuck with the thousands of conference pass holders who get into the keynote hall last, after the VIP's, and after the media. Media would not be able to get decent pictures, would have to arrive 3 hours before the keynote to stand in a line that is a half mile long, and might not even get into the main hall.

It would be impossible to effectively cover the keynote without a media pass.

Other media benefits...
Media is provided with a work room with computers, Ethernet, modem lines, and Airport. The workroom is where we can get out of the bustle to write and post our stories.

Media also is provided with a lounge where we can meet with exhibitors, interact with each other (very important) and get refreshment and meals. By meals, I mean we are provided with continental breakfast, a full lunch (sometimes hot,) beverages and an afternoon snack. Do not dismiss the value of this. When we are covering the show on our own money and we are there for 4 days, that adds up to a very significant benefit.

The media kit room is where vendors provide information such as literature, software, and PR contact info that is not available on the show floor, where you would have to lug that info around all day.

The media pass has many other quite tangible benefits.
Have you ever spent 4 or 5 days in New York? It can be quite expensive to get decent meals. Media are readily invited to any number of evening social events where we not only get food, but it is one of the best ways of really getting to interact with and get to know various exhibitors and other members of the press. If you've never been in those shoes, you would not recognize the benefits

So, you see, the media pass is not just a free $15 ticket to get into the Expo.

The irony here is that GraphicPower is not even a rumor site. We were blacklisted because we have had links to rumor sites, and because we make "Macworld Expo Predictions."

I started GraphicPower as a conduit of Apple advocacy and to get more involved in the Mac community. I no longer feel inclined to advocate Apple. I certainly do not intend to publish a Mac centric Web site under the cloud of having to consider whether I offend Apple or not. It is not just my media status that I have lost... I have lost my Mac spirit.

Here are a few links to relevant articles that have appeared in the last couple of days:

Can Apple Stop the Presses? by Matthew Rothenberg
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,338390,00.asp

Apple denying Expo press access to 'rumor' sites; dangerous game - on Thinksecret.com
http://thinksecret.com/news/editorialpressaccess.html

Comments: Media Pass Crackdown at MWENY? by John H. Farr
http://www.applelinks.com/articles/2002/07/20020702002901.shtml


Scott McCarty
Former Publisher of GraphicPower.com

Scott McCarty
Jul 4, 2002, 12:38 PM
So what if a site has not posted new content this week, or last week, or last month. The qualifications require an individual to have a bylined article *within the last 6 months.* What if I created a site called exporeports.com and only published new content during the weeks just prior to and after Macworld Expo. A lot of media outlets that are print based are only annual, semi-annual or quarterly. That does not diminish their legitamacy. Don't confuse "news" with "media." News is by definition... new. There are plenty of aspects of media that have nothing to do with frequency of publication.

I will repeat what Dean said... the controversy is not over rumor sites, it is about sites that are not rumor sites that have been blacklisted. None of us can say which sites yet because they are trying to get reinstated, but I assure you that AppleLust and GraphicPower are among the smallest that have been blacklisted. Other sites with 500,000 unique visitors and millions of page views per month that most certainly are not rumor sites have been blacklisted.

The actual rumor sites knew all along that they would not get media passes. Those of us who were granted media passes and had them revoked after booking travel and lodging have been genuinely damaged.

A media pass is not just free admission. Who cares about a few dollars? The media pass gives you media treatment with vendors. For the one who said, "If you have a relationship with a vendor you will still have that relationship.."

How do you think that relationship got established?!? By having the media badge, twerp.

syntax
Jul 4, 2002, 02:41 PM
Wow, has anyone read MOSR today? Ryan "Will Work for Food" Meader just posted a stingingly bitter and disingenuous tirade against Apple, professing not to give an [expletive deleted] about MWNY anyway (sha-right) and concluding with the following improbable statement: "Get a clue, Apple, or start preparing your Chapter 11 filing now."

I think Meader should be first in line for the cluetrain. Better still, the rant is preceded by MOSR's usual excuses for the dearth of updates ... they were "sitting" on stuff that other sites decided to release (honest! they swear!) ... and this is the best one yet ... apparently, somehow, LimeWire hosed the computer they were writing the update on. Enabling procrastination and pathetically predictable/deceptive excuses is apparently an undocumented feature of LimeWire.

IndyGopher
Jul 4, 2002, 03:01 PM
Not to be overly inflamatory.. but I have been selling, repairing, upgrading, and consulting on Macs as my primary source of income for the last 5 years, and as a side venture for an additional 5 before that. I have been drawing a paycheck based on computers in one form or another since 1985. Before that, back to 1979, it was just a hobby. Now, that said...

I have never heard of AppleLust or GraphicPower. Never. Not a word. So, while I may be generally clueless (I'm sure you'll find many that agree with that one) I suspect I speak for the CRUSHING majority of Apple users when I say, "Huh? Who? Never heard of them." That said, you seriously overestimate how much anyone cares that you feel you were "f*cked over by Apple" as your website declares.

Whether I agree with the ideas you present or not is really immaterial (although I do) because when you spew that sort of venom, and wrap yourself in a flag to do it, you really strike a particularly ugly nerve with a lot of people who "get" what patriotism and the constitution are really about, and you make us hate you. A lot. Just my not so very humble opinion.

syntax
Jul 4, 2002, 03:28 PM
Also, I think it's particularly interesting that a lot of these rumor sites actually expect us to take their bogus side in this. Guess what, kids? I only read your speculation in the first place because I'm interested in APPLE. I don't give a rat's butt about your well-being. If it comes down to you versus Apple, it's not even a question in my mind or in most readers' minds which side of the divide we fall on. See, funnily enough, I'm interested in Apple because of their PRODUCTS. I could care less about Apple's press policy.

I used to like ThinkSecret. Not so much anymore.

IndyGopher
Jul 4, 2002, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by syntax
I used to like ThinkSecret. Not so much anymore.

Amen. While I never would have sided with them on pretty much any issue, they were comfortably in that zone of ambivolence where most of the world sits with me.. now they will forever be viewed with that twinge of 'NOW what are they crying about?' that will likely lead me to just not bother with them sooner or later.

macrules929
Jul 4, 2002, 10:06 PM
Sounds to me like we're hearing what my grandma calls the give me syndrome. Another words, let's say you give a neighbor down the street a hundred dollars. (hmmm, wish that i had a hundred dollars to give away... :D ) the next week you give him the same amount, you contintue doing this for several months/years. Then you stop...

At first your neighbor was surprised by what you gave him, but then he became used to it, and finally became to expect it as a right... He would plan his whole weaks spending on that Friday's money. He might even plan parties for Friday night... When you stop, he might very well become angery... After all, he "needed" the money. Why he had heard from you daughter that very week that you were planning on giving him the money, and he had planned a BIG party! If you didn't give him the money he didn't know what he would do. But do you have to give him the money?? Isn't it really yours?? To do what ever you want with??

I know that you have to be a little creative to see the analogy, but i think that there is somewhat of a point here. Sure it would be nice to be allowed into the expo with a media pass... But that isn't really your right, it's a gift from apple to you!! In effect there saying, we like the coverage that you give us, and we would like to reward you by letting you in free!

Anyway that's my two bits...

probably should start for bed... kind of late here... :o

prewwii
Jul 5, 2002, 02:12 AM
This subject interests me because if 2.4% of the market share went out of business who would know without the press? If 2.4% of the market share gained another 0.2% of the market share who would know without the press?

As I remember from the last ten years or so Apple has lost more market share than they current have. I think that is an indication that Apple is not solving their customers needs. To gain that market share back Apple will need better solutions and the press.

We know Apple is trying to be both a hardware company that makes software and a software company that makes hardware. On occasion, for a small slice of the market, Apple has been the hardware leader for a few applications and the same is true for the software. Since I started using Macs in 1986 Apple has not been the across the board industry leader.

Competition and higher expectation from their customers will spur Apple to produce better products. Again the press, in this web age of instant information, is a keystone for Apple's marketing efforts. For both validating what is and guiding future choices by making the customer aware of what is in the horizon.

The window of opportunity for Apple products is being compressed by the increasing knowledge and associated expectations of their target audience. Personal computers are a commodity that either plays well with others or are replaced. Again the press is part of the information stream.

I think the rumor press is part of the expectation pressure Apple feels from the market place. Imagine your Apple trying to market a product with a several year old key component and the rumor press is out there saying a current component is just around the corner. Seems to me that would do a lot to jerk Apple out of their comfort zone. Especially since there is little they can do to get back on the band wagon because they seem caught in a catch 22 situation. Not enough market share to drive their vendors to develop needed components and without the key components their customer base is in jeopardy. Then as Apple is doing come to market as a single sourced product line besides. Fortunately there is customer loyality which is in part fostered by specialty web sites, a portion of the press.

So if 2.4% of the market share disappeared who would know without the press? If no press covered the up coming Mac World who would know it happened? I think Apple and the press need to learn how to play well together. This childish interchange will live on long after the trade show is forgotten and all the products announced have been replaced many times over. Remember what you learned in kindergarten, play nice.

synergy
Jul 5, 2002, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by prewwii
This subject interests me because if 2.4% of the market share went out of business who would know without the press? If 2.4% of the market share gained another 0.2% of the market share who would know without the press?


Sorry Rumor sites are not the press so get over it.
Reporting of rumors barely qualifies as being press. Read the tabloids and see if that jives with you. It probably will until they start saying a whole lot of false things about you in general.

Every company worth its bottom line controls the press, not doubt about it. Who knows about it? The accountants and owners of those press outlets. The actual writers think they have free speech, but they don't . Advertising revenue pressure is a very effective means of having articles published only favorable to the company. Whine and cry alls you want, but unless those writers are the owners they don't have the final say.

synergy
Jul 5, 2002, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by syntax
Wow, has anyone read MOSR today? Ryan "Will Work for Food" Meader just posted a stingingly bitter and disingenuous tirade against Apple, professing not to give an [expletive deleted] about MWNY anyway (sha-right) and concluding with the following improbable statement: "Get a clue, Apple, or start preparing your Chapter 11 filing now."

I think Meader should be first in line for the cluetrain. Better still, the rant is preceded by MOSR's usual excuses for the dearth of updates ... they were "sitting" on stuff that other sites decided to release (honest! they swear!) ... and this is the best one yet ... apparently, somehow, LimeWire hosed the computer they were writing the update on. Enabling procrastination and pathetically predictable/deceptive excuses is apparently an undocumented feature of LimeWire.

Haha, that is funny. I just read the site today. Stopped reading them regularly because of the dearth of updates. Replaced macOSrumors with macrumors.com in my bookmarks. This is a much better site for all intents and purposes and does not take itself too seriously.

Maybe they can claim the RIAA crashed their limewire computer.

As for their chapter 11 tirade, its funny they said that. Because over here we see mention of a marketshare increase. So what should we think then? Because of Apple's crackdown on rumor sites their marketshare increased?
Well maybe twisting the already twisted logic of MOSR we could go with that. :)

Scott McCarty
Jul 5, 2002, 12:37 PM
For all of those who seem to be missing the point...

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE BLACKLISTING OF RUMOR SITES

IT IS ABOUT THE BLACKLISTING OF SITES THAT ARE NOT RUMOR SITES

Everybody knew in advance that rumor sites were not going to be granted media credentials. That is bad enough, but virtually every Mac Web site, with very few exceptions, have been blacklisted. Any site who has ever linked to a rumor site, made commentary on a rumor posted elsewhere, or speculated about what will be announced at the Expo has been blacklisted. And they were blacklisted just 2 weeks before the expo after already making travel plans.

This has happened to prominent sites with half a million visitors and several million page views per month.

This is blatent coercion of the press by Apple to never post anything that Apple may not like and to never link to sites that Apple may not like. The 5 or 6 sites that are actual rumor sites are not the ones being affected here. Something like 30 sites have been blacklisted.

macrules929
Jul 5, 2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Scott McCarty
This has happened to prominent sites with half a million visitors and several million page views per month.

Who? ;) Or is this another one of those sites who are still "appealing..." And thus we can't know... :rolleyes:

One last thing... Media passes are a privilage from apple to give to whom ever they think will do a good job. It's NOT your right just cause you consider your self media!!

prewwii
Jul 5, 2002, 05:34 PM
As SYNERGY says rumor sites are not the press. Neither is CNN or Time the press, just part of the press. So then the question is what constitutes the press. Accuracy? Anybody remember the bomb and who the press claimed set it off at the 1996 Olympics. How many shots when Kennedy was shot?

Rumor sites tell us up front that their information is based on incomplete information. The "accuracy" is in connecting the dots of various reports and trying to draw a conclusion. Contrast that to Time or CNN etc. and their information is presented as fact based. However when viewed over time the fact based information press seems to have a slant. Again the reader is required to get their information from more than one source and play connect the dots. I think it's getting harder to define "the press".

I am not suggesting that rumor sites or any media has the right to free access to trade shows. I am suggesting that the vendors need the press to get their product information out to the non-attending public to sustain their cash flow and the press needs stories to present to their audience to sustain their cash flow. Finding a balance that works for both is the food for trial and error. Without the famous Mac user loyalty I think Apple's business behavior would be more congenial. Apple has lost over 40% of it's customer base in the last ten years and their still hard to deal with at times. What's that all about?

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between a couple of 3 year olds squabbling and the members of the business world squabbling.

Ouroboros
Jul 5, 2002, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by IndyGopher
Not to be overly inflamatory.. but I have been selling, repairing, upgrading, and consulting on Macs as my primary source of income for the last 5 years, and as a side venture for an additional 5 before that. I have been drawing a paycheck based on computers in one form or another since 1985. Before that, back to 1979, it was just a hobby. Now, that said...

I have never heard of AppleLust or GraphicPower. Never. Not a word. So, while I may be generally clueless (I'm sure you'll find many that agree with that one) I suspect I speak for the CRUSHING majority of Apple users when I say, "Huh? Who? Never heard of them." That said, you seriously overestimate how much anyone cares that you feel you were "f*cked over by Apple" as your website declares.

Whether I agree with the ideas you present or not is really immaterial (although I do) because when you spew that sort of venom, and wrap yourself in a flag to do it, you really strike a particularly ugly nerve with a lot of people who "get" what patriotism and the constitution are really about, and you make us hate you. A lot. Just my not so very humble opinion.

What does this have anything to do with anything? So because you *personally* haven't heard of these sites, it is therefore beneath you, and beneath everyone else. How arrogant and foolish you are. Have we heard about you? What if you operated a small Apple certified repair company, and for one reason or other, Apple did something that eliminated all third party Apple ceritified repair centers? By your logic, we shouldn't give a damn about you, and your ****-out-of-luck job status. Therefore, anything that a large press outlet doesn't cover should not be worth thinking about? Did you even think about what you said? Do you even really understand what it is that people are complaining about? This has nothing to do with whether Macrumors, Thinksecret, etc. can get a press pass. You are an too close-minded, just my not so very humble opinion, on a close-minded person's opinion. It is so tiresome to have to read over and over and over people who glean their opinions from what was just said here. Anyway, flame away, I'm sure you have a tiresome retort ready to go...

macrules929
Jul 5, 2002, 07:42 PM
Just for the record... I haven't heard of those web sights either. And yes I have been "in the Mac" community ever sence Macs came out.

I mean, get real, I'm not a fan of some web sight, i'm an APPLE fan!! Always have been always will be!:cool:

deanb
Jul 5, 2002, 09:29 PM
...MacFixIt.com?

Macfixit has just went public that they are one of the 30 that had their media credentials revoked by Apple. There are far more large pieces to the puzzle of who else, but they are one of the largest to come forward right now...

So, to those that have been dismissing this as a rumor-site whine-fest...

Is MacFixIt.com a rumor site?

Of course not. But they have now been blacklisted. And we will, just like Scott and those of us have been trying to say for days now, see more revealed...

And maybe more will understand our frustration even if you don't know who some of us are.

-db

nero007
Jul 6, 2002, 12:49 AM
I can see both sides of the coin here. Apple is obviously trying to cut back on losing sales. But I think they're going about this the wrong way. I guess they don't mind stepping on the toes of their followers.

Rower_CPU
Jul 6, 2002, 01:10 AM
These kind of heavy-handed tactics are best left to Microsoft...:(

I'm all for Apple doing what it needs to to protect its secrets, but ostracizing large parts of the Mac community is NOT the way to go.

Maybe they've lost sight of the faithful 5% now that their sole focus is the "other 95%"...???

imspace2
Jul 6, 2002, 11:35 PM
I was planning on wearing my brand new macrumors.com shirt to MWNY but now I'm afraid if I walk near the Apple booths I will get mouses thrown @ me or something

nickgold
Jul 7, 2002, 04:05 AM
I don't know if any of you folks have noticed, but the economy is going down the toilet these days. And it seems to have finally caught up with Apple, a bit. Maybe this move is just to save a few bucks? Goodness knows all of that free food and such is expensive, and denying smaller media sites press access will certainly cut costs a bit.

However, for the record, Apple is pretty darn notorious when it comes to trying to stifle the Mac-user community's flights of fancy about the future of Jobs and Co. and the nifty machines they produce. You would think that Apple would be somewhat open to fostering the productive cultism of its brand, instead of trying to stifle it. So what if that means being a little more open-minded when it comes to rumors being reported on by the slightly more mainstream Mac-Internet press.

It's hard for me to think of ANY web sites that cover the Mac world, and haven't EVER reported on a particularly virulent rumor that's being tossed about in the Mac community. I suppose Macnn, maccentral, xlr8yourmac, etc. etc. are among the effected? But come to think of it, Wired's web site also reports on Mac rumors occassionally. Will they also be denied press access? That would certainly be a bit surprising.

I think at the end of the day, we have to remember that Apple is a corporation, like all others. And whether or not they happen to alienate a relatively small portion of their user base, they will pursue, before all else, profit. And obviously they think that this move will either get them more profit, or will prevent the loss of some profit. Like it or not, that is the nature of big business. If it really pisses you off (as it very well might -- the pursuit of profit, above all else, certainly has an "evil" ring to it, if you ask me) I suggest you spend some time addressing the subject at large, and not just the tiny piece of it that happens to affect you personally (here I speak to the effected Mac-media outlets). Remember, off in some other world, millions of people toil for less than a dollar a day to make your shoes, clothing, and other goods we take for granted in the industrialized world. If anything in this strange world deserves more of an outcry, it's that basic fact. In that light, Apple press credentials become less of a serious issue, don't you think?

IndyGopher
Jul 7, 2002, 06:25 PM
Has anyone found out if the outlets who were refused PRESS passes are all web-only outlets? Could it be something as simple as Apple reserving PRESS passes for PRESS? I think it would be a mistake to do so, but it certainly would not be without precedent.

Scott McCarty
Jul 7, 2002, 10:11 PM
Indy, don't be an idiot.

They are not PRESS passes, they are MEDIA passes. There are several kinds of media, periodical print, books, video, TV, and WEB. They are all legitimate forms to deseminate information.

You are obviously missing the point. Apple is blacklisting significant Web sites that are not rumor sites but they are calling them rumor sites for no better reason than that they sometimes link to rumor sites.

And, they have done it to sites that have been approved as media and then they are revoking the media pass just two weeks before the Expo after many editors have already made travel reservations.

It is not about free admission.
It is not about a free lunch.
It is about ACCESS.

An exhibits pass does not give you the same level of access. I know. I have gone to Expo, and Seybold, and PhotoPlus, and OnDemand on press passes for the last 4 years. I know the difference in access. It is important.

You do not have a clue. Use some of the effort that you have been putting into yor banal posts to getting a clue, willya?

As to whether a media outlet is significant enought to deserve a media pass or not... how do you think a media outlet becomes significant? They all start out as small publications and build readership and resources through hard work and ACCESS.

My puny little site is not the point. This has happened to many significant Web sites. MacFixIt is among the first to go public with their blacklist status, and they are still keeping a low profile. I am leading the thrust of exposure of this heinous attempt by Apple to coerce the Mac media outlets. It has little to do with me and my puny site, I am just the first one to be willing to take a strong stand.

IndyGopher
Jul 7, 2002, 11:34 PM
Which part of that post answered the question?

Has anyone looked into whether Apple removed the access of any media that was NOT web-only? It was a pretty simple question.. the job of media is to answer those sorts of questions. I will resist the urge to draw conclusions from that.

deanb
Jul 8, 2002, 11:22 AM
Well considering the only media that aren't web only are a small handful of magazines, the main one of which is putting on the darn Expo, I'd assume its safe to say they'll keep their passes. See the eWeek article for a more thoughtful reasoning on why that is (and why eWeek can get away with talking openly about it).

But MacAddict.com, the web outlet of the magazine, would technically NOT qualify for a pass under the "commercial site" rules of MS&L. So, I bet if they have any dedicated staffers they'll only get in under the mag's umbrella.

And now the public list of banned media grows: Low End Mac, Insanely Great Mac...