A new approach.

[luckyparadox]

Okay a new approach to the portable mac debate:

If the price is not an issue, is there any reason not to purchase a powerbook over the iBook?

I've recently decided to switch to Mac from PC, and I'm really excited about my next purchase...I've got a 12" PB (80 gigs, everything else standard) in my shopping cart for the past few days waiting for me to finalize the purchase...but I figure I'd get some reviews from you guys.

(I'll be doing lots of photo stuff, publishing [web and otherwise] stuff, video stuff, eventually some music stuff, then music/video stuff *g*, lots and lots of web stuff).

-enrico

[cjc343]

If price is not an issue, you buy 1100 XServes and get them folding immediately..... we need to keep our 18th place... or better...


Have you seen the 12" screen? If you haven't, I would reccomend you look at it before you buy.


As for the PB vs. iBook debate... PB is more powerful, and it doesn't get beaten up as easily... I would get a PB over an iBook if price isn't an issue.

[Sun Baked]

If the price is not an issue, is there any reason not to purchase a powerbook over the iBook?

-enricoAll depends on how much abuse you expect the machine to take.

While the iBook is a little heavier and thicker, the plastic case will take more abuse than the aluminum skin of the PowerBook.

If you are an absolute clutz, the iBook would probably serve you a bit better.

[cjc343]

to clarify my post, it is easier to scratch the iBook, but the plastic is stronger... most of the powerbook is painted, so there is plastic in the end....

[JOD8FY]

If price is not an issue, go with the 15" PB. Heres why: for video editing, you're going to want a bigger screen. Also, That funky backlit keyboard thing is soooo cool! Lastly, you can get a 128 MB graphics card. Maybe I'm just saying this because that would be my dream system :rolleyes: . Oh well, I'm certainly not complaining at all about my PB 12" - I love it to death! I like the PB's much better than the iBooks and if cost is not an issue, why not? :)

Best wishes,
JOD8FY

[flyfish29]

The only reason I can think of is the iBook comes with a bit more software that is free like Appleworks, Tony Hawk, etc. but if money is not an issue then you can just buy what you would actually use. I would say Powerbook 100%, especially for what you are doing with it with so much heavy video, etc. You would get better video output with the ability to have a second monitor (extended desktop) if I am not mistaken along with other goodies I am sure would come in handy!

Johnny

[0s and 1s]

If money is NOT an issue, max out a 17" PB! Don't waste your time with a 12" PB or iBook for that matter.

[thirteen1031]

Prior to Rev C 12" and Rev B 15" THERE was a reason beyond price to buy an iBook. Before the updates, iBooks got better wi-Fi reception AND they had a MUCH longer battery life. 4-5 hours compared to the 2-3 hours on a Powerbook.

However, the powerbooks now have better battery life--or so I've heard tell. I don't know if the wi-fi reception has improved, but it was really that battery life that was a drawback.

Given this, and money being no object, the only other reason to buy an ibook over a powerbook is because it's going to be handed very roughly and/or you're worried they might get stolen. ibooks are bombproof and less attractive to thieves. Which is why they're particularly good for teens--the thoughtless ones--College kids living in a crowded, rowdy dorms, or very adventurous travelers.

Powerbooks are tough and can put up with a lot--but they do dent.

[luckyparadox]

does anybody know a way that I can "simulate" a 12" screen on my Dell laptop? i don't have an Apple store anywhere near me so I can check out the 12" PB.

And does anybody have a list of the software that comes bundled with the iBook and PB? There used to be spec sheets on the Apple store website...but I can't seem to find them anymore.

Thanks a bunch!

[Sun Baked]

And does anybody have a list of the software that comes bundled with the iBook and PB? There used to be spec sheets on the Apple store website...but I can't seem to find them anymore.Still there at, Apple Site/Hardware/Computer/Tech Specs

So just click on the computer, and the tech specs on that machine at

http://www.apple.com/hardware/

[jxyama]

does anybody know a way that I can "simulate" a 12" screen on my Dell laptop? i don't have an Apple store anywhere near me so I can check out the 12" PB.

just run your screen at 1024 x 768. that's the resolution of the 12" screens.

pixels are smaller on the 12" - that, you can't simulate no matter how hard you try... go to any stores selling computers - there should be plenty of 12" models from sony, HP, etc. they all have 1024 x 768.

[jxyama]

Prior to Rev C 12" and Rev B 15" THERE was a reason beyond price to buy an iBook. Before the updates, iBooks got better wi-Fi reception AND they had a MUCH longer battery life. 4-5 hours compared to the 2-3 hours on a Powerbook.

However, the powerbooks now have better battery life--or so I've heard tell. I don't know if the wi-fi reception has improved, but it was really that battery life that was a drawback.

i have a rev. A 12". i've always gotten 3:30 to 4 hours on my battery. and it's over a year old.

wifi reception has been ok from the beginning, certainly better than the Ti. i am not sure if either of those have improved much in the latest revision of PBs... iBooks have had the longest battery life and best wifi reception and still do.

[dxp4acu]

I wouldnt want bigger than the 12". Maybe 13.3", but thats the max. I absolutely love being able to haul it everywhere, around the house, on my lap, anywhere I go. Along with wireless, it is fantastic! 15 to 17 inches might be too big for that. I also dont think the screen is too small. I enjoy it just the way it is.

My wife takes it to school everyday, and it does take some abuse. We have a rev. A.

[interstate8]

Kind of along these lines...

I've been going back and forth between a 12" and a 15" for two weeks. I'm going crazy. It's nearly a $1,000 difference. The 15" is clearly amazing, but for an extra $G?

Has anyone done any audio work with a 12"? Portability is key (moving to Europe), but this will be my one and only machine. Screen-estate is nice.

I know this has been discussed but I can't find those threads right now. If anyone can point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

[luckyparadox]

Okay, well which is more effective for speediness, 512MB Ram with a 60G hard drive at 4200rpm, or less ram but an 80G hard drive at 5400rpm?

Basically I just don't want my computer slowing down when I'm working with lots of web pages, photoshop, a messaging program, my email program, iTunes, all open at the same time. Right now my two-year old PC does that...it's got 384MB ram and only a 20G hard drive (loaded down with photos and videos and such).

Also, is it such a big difference between having 32MB Video memory and 64mb? I know it's twice as much, but is it that noticable?

I'll most likely be investing in a hefty external hard drive somewhere down the line.

So it's down to the 14" iBook or the 12" PB ... both cost just about the same amount (when I load up the iBook with bluetooth and airport)...I'll be taking a trip to Staples or somewhere to take a look at the 12inch notebooks, give it a test run.

Thanks again,
Enrico
ps--money actually IS an issue for me, I'm not loaded. I just wanted to take it out of the argument so we could discuss quality over value.

[jxyama]

Okay, well which is more effective for speediness, 512MB Ram with a 60G hard drive at 4200rpm, or less ram but an 80G hard drive at 5400rpm?

definitely get the HD. RAM can always be added later and generally, RAM prices go down. HD is hard to upgrade in a laptop as well.

HD, no question.

[Nybombers142]

Okay, well which is more effective for speediness, 512MB Ram with a 60G hard drive at 4200rpm, or less ram but an 80G hard drive at 5400rpm?

Basically I just don't want my computer slowing down when I'm working with lots of web pages, photoshop, a messaging program, my email program, iTunes, all open at the same time. Right now my two-year old PC does that...it's got 384MB ram and only a 20G hard drive (loaded down with photos and videos and such).

Also, is it such a big difference between having 32MB Video memory and 64mb? I know it's twice as much, but is it that noticable?

I'll most likely be investing in a hefty external hard drive somewhere down the line.



So it's down to the 14" iBook or the 12" PB ... both cost just about the same amount (when I load up the iBook with bluetooth and airport)...I'll be taking a trip to Staples or somewhere to take a look at the 12inch notebooks, give it a test run.

Thanks again,
Enrico
ps--money actually IS an issue for me, I'm not loaded. I just wanted to take it out of the argument so we could discuss quality over value.

get the RAM. RAM is FAR more important then HD size or speed. expecilly since you plan on getting an external drive down the road. upgrade the rAM AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AFFORD. Also think about the 12" iBook, with maxed ram. Shes a tank

[jxyama]

get the RAM. RAM is FAR more important then HD size or speed. expecilly since you plan on getting an external drive down the road. upgrade the rAM AS MUCH AS YOU CAN AFFORD. Also think about the 12" iBook, with maxed ram. Shes a tank

actually, you raise a very good point. i recommended getting the HD under the assumption that the orig. poster could afford to upgrade the RAM soon after the HD upgrade.

RAM will make the biggest difference in terms of performance boost, no question. HD is hard to upgrade later was my point.

[Crikey]

does anybody know a way that I can "simulate" a 12" screen on my Dell laptop? i don't have an Apple store anywhere near me so I can check out the 12" PB.

Thanks a bunch!

Here's my lame attempt to "simulate" the various PowerBook screens on my Dell 2000FP. It may be somewhat helpful. http://www.uoregon.edu/~mlclark/toys/PBscreens.html

In general, you want to check out any notebook that has a 12" screen and 1024x768 resolution to get a sense for the image size. Some people are unsatisfied with 1024x768, preferring more pixels, and some people think the 12" screen packs the pixels too closely together, preferring the same number of pixels in a 14" screen like the bigger iBooks have.

I personally think the 12" PowerBook (and iBook) screen size makes for a nice compromise between useful and portable. But then, I think the larger screen on the 15" PowerBooks is gorgeous too.

Cheers,

Crikey

[7on]

Go for the 12". I regret everyday not buying a 12". The 15" is significantly heavier and larger. It is also more awkward due to the widescreen. Go 12"

[PHARAOHk]

The price difference between a superdrive 12 and superdrive 15 is the exact same amount the 17 inch studio display costs. I say have large sreenestate at home and portability during travels. Has to be the best compromise.

[interstate8]

That's great advice right there. Thanks a lot.

[luckyparadox]

So I went to Best Buy to check out a 12" notebook, and stood there for almost forty minutes staring at that damn Sony Vaio trying to decide whether or not it was too small for me. I can't decide.

I also can't decide if I would be wasting my money by getting the 1.2ghz iBook because of screen size, since for just $70 more I could get the 12" PB WITH a 20GB larger hard drive.

I'm leaning towards the iBook because of it's durability (although I'm not at all clumsy with my comp) and wifi reception as well as the software...but it's only a slight lean, I need somebody to push me over, or pull me back.

The PB has a faster processor, BUS, and RAM....but does it really make that much of a difference? If I upgrade my iBook RAM to 748 or 1G, will it compare favorably?

I'm a part of the school of thought that you should get the best computer that you can afford at the time, so thanks for bearing with me and helping me out.

-enrico

PS--what are the built-in speakers like? Can I get good-sounding CD music directly from either of these machines without having to plug in external speakers? My current laptop has this disgusting tinny sound, so I never use it without external speakers...this may factor into my decision as well.

[stevietheb]

If money is no object, their are few reasons to purchase an iBook over a powerbook. However, if looking at 12" ibook vs. 12" pbook, I see very little that attracts me to the powerbook. Sure, it's a bit more powerful, but I promise you, when you set the two side-by-side the screen on the 12" pbook looks like crap compared to the ibook. I tried different calibrations on the pbook, and never found any setting that looked quite as nice as the iBook.

That being said, if money were no object, I would have purchased a 12" pbook (for added power) and a nice big display--that way I get the added power, and portability (the 15" and 17" are just a little too bulky for carryin' everyday) plus the nice big screen at home.

As it is, I find that the only time I wish I had more screen to work with is when I'm using final cut pro (yes...final cut pro on an ibook...runs just fine too). Of course, when working at home, I just hook it up to my 17" CRT and use the screen spanning hack.

In sum, if I were you, I would purchase a 12" pbook and a nice big cinema display (and while you do, I'll sit here envying your purchase).

[kidA]

if you decide to buy the 12 inch and an external display, you might consider looking at other sources besides apple. apple's lcds look nice, but are quite expensive. especially considering that they use the ADC connector, so you need the ADC to DVI adapter, which add's about $100 to the cost of the display, since the powerbook only has DVI out, not ADC. you could find another display from another manufacturer that costs less than the apple display to begin with. the 17" apple display costs $699. plus the ADC to DVI adapter, it costs $799. that's a pretty steep price for a 17" display. you could get a 19" display for that from many other companies. you ought to be able to get a 17" display for less than $600 easy. with a display that uses a normal connector, you'd only need regular mini-DVI-to-whatever-you-need-to-connect-to adapter. the mini-DVI to VGA and the mini DVI to DVI adapters only cost about $20.

[luckyparadox]

I just wanted to bring this thread back to the top--I have a "human" question to ask you guys, since my decision has come down to one variable: screen size.

Those of you who use the 12"PB (or 12" iBook), did you switch from a bigger screen? How was your experience, did you find the smaller screen to be too small (or did it seem small at first but you got used to it?).

I really want to buy the 12" Powerbook, but I'm afraid I might not like the smaller screen I don't expect to dislike it, I'm just wondering what if I do?

On my Dell laptop I had changed my DPI from 96 to 91 to make things smaller...can I change the DPI on a Powerbook as well?

Thanks...this is my very last obstacle in making my purchase.

[PHARAOHk]

You know what lucky? I am going to give my dad my 17 inch powerbook this weekend and pick myself up a 12 inch. One extreme to the other. I will make sure to post here around sunday to leave my opinion.

[PHARAOHk]

OK, I am posting from my new 12 inch with 17 inch studio display. I am very impressed with this computers diminutive size. It is very snappy and I don't feel like I have given up any kind of speed or usability ay all. The screen is totally usable but not a good idea if it's your only one. I am completely satisfied with the combination but I do have some criticisms.

-The 100$ ADC to DVI converter seems expensive and redundant.

-The keyboard on the keyboard seems kind of wavy and not entirely flat. It doesn't bother me but it seems kind of weird.

Two screens and super portability for the exact same price as the 15 inch is so cool! If you want a non-Apple I am positive you could get bigger screeestate for less $ and you wouldn't need the ADC to DVI connector which to me is slightly ironic which saves another 100$

The 17 studio display looks great and I will never go back to one screen again. It is much bigger at home then it seemed at the store compared to the 20 and 23. One thing to note is that you CANNOT extend the warranty on Apple monitors Unless purchased with an Apple computer. That was my initial plan but seems a little unfair.

Any thoughts on the wavy keyboard?

[russed]

doesnt the 12" PB and the 14" ibook have the same resolution or am i talking rubbish? in which case what is the point of the 14"er?

with regards to airport reception on the PB, i have a rev b. 12" and i dont know how much better you want it to be but i can be a long way away from the base station (like one side of the house to the other and my house is long) going through thick walls and the reception is still on 2 bars.

i went from having a 16" toshiba laptop and the reduction in size hasnt bothered me, if i really need a bit more i just put the dock on auto hide which then gives me a few extra cm's vertically.

the 12" pb is a nice weight and size for lugging around. im not rough with it but from carrying it around in my bag quite a bit i have no scratches of dents etc. treat it properly and it will stay in good nick. hell its a computer worth alot, you dont want to be scratching it!

as it sounds like you will be using it quite intensivly i would definatly go for the PB over the ibook and i would get it with the faster bigger hd and then get the ram later. i still regret that i didnt get the bigger hd when i bought mine.

[russed]

oh also, when i way buying my PB, it was really the quality of the keyboard that finally twisted my arm. the keyboard on the pb really is one of hte best i have ever seen on a laptop, really solid and suitable for doing lots of typing on. the ibook's i thought was a bit more wobbly and just generally not as nice!