Bought my PBook -- false start! (Dead Pixel Question)

[Ryvius]

Alright, took the plunge and got my PBook, a 12" wonder.

I love it so far but it's clear there's a dead pixel at the top center.

Now the Applestore is currently closed, but I'm wondering if many people have reported dead pixels in the LCD and if so what Apple's policy is on dealing with it.

Will they replace it? Will they tell me to take a hike?

-- Ryvius

[Veldek]

I think up to 5 dead pixels are considered acceptable, so they won't exchange it.

[virividox]

if its just one dead pixel it cant be replaced, some ppl recomend massaging it out, but i jst leave mine.

theres a diff between a stuck and a dead one is urs dead

[iGav]

Dead = black/grey = you can't massage it out.
Stuck= Red/Green/Blue = if you're lucky, then you might be able to massage it out.

[aswitcher]

Was it there when you turned it on or did it appear when it was running for a while?

[gundamguy]

I bought my ibook in a store just for the fact that dead pixels drive me insane, I had one noticible black dot in the middle of my thinkpad for years and it pissed me off, buying in a store lets you make sure your not getting any bad ones right off.

[legion]

I bought my ibook in a store just for the fact that dead pixels drive me insane, I had one noticible black dot in the middle of my thinkpad for years and it pissed me off, buying in a store lets you make sure your not getting any bad ones right off.

Why didn't you exchange it? IBM online gives you a 30days no questions asked policy in the US.

[Kingsnapped]

I have a dead pixel in the center of the screen, about a third of the way in from the left. I noticed it every day for a couple weeks, but now I actually have to look for it. As long as it's not a black one in the dead center or something, it won't be a problem.

[wide]

Apple should replace it. If not, just return the computer and order a new one :D. I've massaged a black pixel on my Pismo and in a few seconds it popped back in and started working. If I were you, though, I wouldn't tolerate it. You paid good money for that computer, so Apple had better fix it! On the other hand, none of my Dell computers have ever had a dead pixel :D

[LaMerVipere]

I bought my ibook in a store just for the fact that dead pixels drive me insane, I had one noticible black dot in the middle of my thinkpad for years and it pissed me off, buying in a store lets you make sure your not getting any bad ones right off.

I don't see how buying a laptop in person will let you see if there are dead pixels on it or not on the screen of a laptop that's completely sealed in a box which was shipped to the store no different than if you ordered it online. You still just get a sealed box and have to take it home and cross your fingers that it all works out fine.

Unless you bought the floor display model that's been mishandled and abused by every onlooker or curious consumer who happened to pass through the store...

[dbirider]

how hard do you massage when you massage a dead pixel. ive tried doing it to my bright blue one a bunch of times, and so far it wont go away.

[Ryvius]

I tried massaging it out and it appears to have worked...so far.

It's gone, but having had dead pixels in PDAs and other labtops, this was a pleasant surprise.

Here's hoping it stays that way...

Thanks for the advice everyone. :)

[nikeballa09]

has anyone had a dead pixel on a new ibook G4?

[Kwyjibo]

dead pixels are possible on any product with an LCD, and usually its not ap er comapny thing, dell lcds get them too.

[Vanilla]

I don't see how buying a laptop in person will let you see if there are dead pixels on it or not on the screen of a laptop that's completely sealed in a box which was shipped to the store no different than if you ordered it online. You still just get a sealed box and have to take it home and cross your fingers that it all works out fine.

Unless you bought the floor display model that's been mishandled and abused by every onlooker or curious consumer who happened to pass through the store...

its because you are now dealing with people rather than a computerised system.

Certainly here in the UK I have had personal experience of asking a salesperson if they could please allow me to open the box and check the machine (in my instance a Thinkpad) before leaving the store and agree to allowing me to select another box if we collectively found a dead pixel situation. I have also quietly asked the same thing with reference to a Powerbook in an Apple certified store and got a quiet affirmative.

The one problem is that you have to purchase stock configurations, rather than BTO's so that means standard graphic memory, 4200rpm HD etc.

I have to say that despite understanding the counter argument (we must accept this as otherwise PB's would be excessively expensive, etc. etc.) if I was to spend circa £2K+ on a laptop I would DEMAND perfection and would find it extremely difficult to be as realxed on my tainted investment as some claim to be.

Vanilla

[MontgomeryBurns]

Apparently the official Apple pixel counts are as follows:

It is ACCEPTABLE for an LCD to have:

Up to 3 STUCK pixels,
Up to 5 DEAD pixels,
or up to 7 of a COMBINATION of erroneous pixels.

Apple will replace youre display if you have

4 or more STUCK pixels,
6 or more DEAD pixels,
or 8 or more of a COMBINATION of erroneous pixels.

Yes, it is ************, i know, as both my 17" imac and 15" powerbook screens have ONE stuck pixel each, but hey, what can you do.

[LaMerVipere]

its because you are now dealing with people rather than a computerised system.

Certainly here in the UK I have had personal experience of asking a salesperson if they could please allow me to open the box and check the machine (in my instance a Thinkpad) before leaving the store and agree to allowing me to select another box if we collectively found a dead pixel situation. I have also quietly asked the same thing with reference to a Powerbook in an Apple certified store and got a quiet affirmative.

The one problem is that you have to purchase stock configurations, rather than BTO's so that means standard graphic memory, 4200rpm HD etc.

I have to say that despite understanding the counter argument (we must accept this as otherwise PB's would be excessively expensive, etc. etc.) if I was to spend circa £2K+ on a laptop I would DEMAND perfection and would find it extremely difficult to be as realxed on my tainted investment as some claim to be.

Vanilla

I really really don't think the Apple Store (at least here in the U.S.) or any other store for that matter would break the seal on a product to start it up just to see if there are any dead pixels on the screen for you, as this would diminish the value big time since they couldn't sell it as Brand New anymore.

[wide]

dead pixels are possible on any product with an LCD, and usually its not ap er comapny thing, dell lcds get them too.

In case you're responding to me: I know, I've been really lucky with my LCD displays :).

Just a question: if your brand-new machine has a dead pixel, and Apple will not replace it, could you return your machine and just buy a new one? What is Apple's return policy?

I really really don't think the Apple Store (at least here in the U.S.) or any other store for that matter would break the seal on a product to start it up just to see if there are any dead pixels on the screen for you, as this would diminish the value big time since they couldn't sell it as Brand New anymore.

I agree completely--those people in Apple Stores, especially at the Genius bar are complete ***holes. I had static on my iPod mini, and the Genius Bar person completely blew me off until I argued with one of them for ten minutes and got myself a place in line ahead of everyone else. My mini was a new product, and I sure as hell was not going to wait two hours in line for a mistake on their part. They really need to get a hold of support. It might be the deciding factor in me getting a new Mac this December or not (actually i think not :D but it was very annoying).

[Vanilla]

I really really don't think the Apple Store (at least here in the U.S.) or any other store for that matter would break the seal on a product to start it up just to see if there are any dead pixels on the screen for you, as this would diminish the value big time since they couldn't sell it as Brand New anymore.

Well I am sure you do not mean to accuse me of lying, so I'll just repeat and elaborate on my comment.

I have indeed purchased a Thinkpad in a shop down Tottenham Court Road, London and got them to open the box first and fire up the laptop to check the screen prior to purchase. I have also asked at an Apple centre here in London that IF I was to purchase a PB off them would they be prepared to do the same and they answered in the affirmative. I must add this was a quiet conversation to one side of the main floor, one-to-one and the guy had to confer with a colleague before agreeing, but I gained some comfort in knowing that they were prepared to do this.

I do find this whole issue frankly disgusting. I have bought numerous (well 4 actually) Thinkpads with no issue, bar one, which had one stuck pixel discovered in the store prior to purchase and immediately replaced and yet with Apple we are asked to essentially pay £2K+ for an Apple lottery ticket, the prize being a screen without fault. I imagine also that this "policy" remains true for the Apple Displays, which compounds the issue. I currently use a G5 attached to a CRT screen (thankyou edesignuk) and have a Thinkpad as my portable option for this reason.

The counter argument explains that to put in place a QA process that rejected ALL faulty screens would put prices up unacceptably. IMO we are already asked to pay premium rates for the product and I feel that a marketing campaign that stated every screen was GUARANTEED to be perfect (or replacement if a faulty one slipped through and was purchased) would be extremely successful, the increased sales of which over time would go some way to countering the increased costs in the first place.

You expect your shiny new car to be perfect, you expect your shiny new HiFi system to be perfect, you expect your shiny new TV to be perfect and I expect my shiny new PB to be perfect.

Vanilla

[daveyc]

IGenius Bar person completely blew me off until I argued with one of them for ten minutes and got myself a place in line ahead of everyone else.

If I was waiting in a queue and you tantrumed your way in front of me in the queue, I think I'd feel you were the A**hole buddy.... :rolleyes:



I really really don't think the Apple Store (at least here in the U.S.) or any other store for that matter would break the seal on a product to start it up just to see if there are any dead pixels on the screen for you, as this would diminish the value big time since they couldn't sell it as Brand New anymore.

:eek: Any good PC store in the UK would do this for you. Even PC World have done this for me with laptop and tft sales. If a store won't do this to take your money, I suggest you turn around from the sales advisor and walk away. If Sales service sucks for somethign so simple when they should be begging for your money, chances are the aftersales will be twice as annyoingly strict and impersonal.

[netytan]

There seem to be a lot more compaints about the PowerBook in this respect, are there any Ibook users out there who've had this problem?

I'm currently saving for a new G4 Ibook, and i'm telling you, if the screen isn't up to scracth i'm sending it back and getting a new once since this just isn't the kind of thing you expect from an Apple - with a PC it's kinda expected - but Mac's are the posh cars of computer hardware (and resently, software too - OS X Yaaaaaa!)

But there don't seem to be many complaits from PC users about this, or i've never heard of one surprisingly :rolleyes:

Mark.

[daveyc]

But there don't seem to be many complaits from PC users about this, or i've never heard of one surprisingly :rolleyes:

Mark.


Naaa, Screens are screens. Apple buy in the screens just as dell, hp, et al buy in TFT's.

I've had two High class Vaio Laptops before my Powerbook, both with stuck pixels. It's just the tech of the screen....you can get bad ones.

[Macdantheman07]

I had two stuck pixels on my imac's screen and i took a palm pilot stylus and massaged them out. It is key that you use a palm stylus; its the only thing that works. Do not press too hard, and do not use your finger.

[JFreak]

There seem to be a lot more compaints about the PowerBook in this respect, are there any Ibook users out there who've had this problem?

ibooks are not immune to this problem as this is common to all lcd displays. however, it all comes down to numbers, which in this case are the production volumes: the ibooks use the traditional 4:3 screens which are widely used among other manufacturers too, but the powerbooks' widescreen displays are (likely) produced in far smaller quantities, and therefore it is possible that the factory might not be able to keep the quality control as good as in the higher volume productions.

[wide]

If I was waiting in a queue and you tantrumed your way in front of me in the queue, I think I'd feel you were the A**hole buddy.... :rolleyes:

When it comes to a glitch in their product, and they make me wait in line for nearly two hours, I have a right to be an asshole. It's their fault that I'm waiting in line, and it's their job to not argue and be polite to me, even if they hate my guts. You can't just stand in line--that won't get you anywhere. If you really want attention, you have to persist. And even when I did get ahead in line, my genius was still rude, saying "I put off fifteen other people to help you." I don't care. If those people aren't bold enough to make themselves heard, then it's their problem if they have to wait in line. If I'm not mistaken, they aren't supposed to say that, ever. I would gladly have accepted a full refund for my iPod mini than receive that awful service. If that is the way Apple treats their customers, then I will take my business elsewhere.

By the way, I didn't cut anyone in line. They have an electric queue in the NYC SoHo Apple Store, and you sign up there. I did not have a tantrum. I requested service immediately, and when they responded "No", I asked them why I couldn't get helped immediately. However asshole-ish I might have seemed, I didn't ever act impolite.

[rinseout]

When it comes to a glitch in their product, and they make me wait in line for nearly two hours, I have a right to be an asshole. It's their fault that I'm waiting in line, and it's their job to not argue and be polite to me, even if they hate my guts. You can't just stand in line--that won't get you anywhere. If you really want attention, you have to persist. And even when I did get ahead in line, my genius was still rude, saying "I put off fifteen other people to help you." I don't care. If those people aren't bold enough to make themselves heard, then it's their problem if they have to wait in line.
[...]
By the way, I didn't cut anyone in line. They have an electric queue in the NYC SoHo Apple Store, and you sign up there. I did not have a tantrum. I requested service immediately, and when they responded "No", I asked them why I couldn't get helped immediately. However asshole-ish I might have seemed, I didn't ever act impolite.

Maybe it's a cultural thing, but where I'm from, queue-jumping (electronic or otherwise) is considered impolite. If everybody in that queue was "bold enough to make themselves heard" nobody would be being helped, and that's not good for anybody.

Saying that it's "their fault that (you're) waiting in line" misses the mark. Sure, it's the company's fault that you're in line, but it is not the service-people's fault and it certainly isn't the fault of the people that were there before you.

Where I'm from, people may have the freedom to be an asshole, but that isn't to say that being an asshole is an accepted modality for interaction with others.

Like I said, maybe it's a cultural thing. If so, good thing I'm not in New York.

[rinseout]

[double post]

[wide]

Ya, well...I'm from New York City, and I am completely certain that it is a cultural thing. It's their job to give me technical support when I have trouble with their products. I am not going to pay $99 dollars a year for ProCare support when I already spent $249 and have had trouble only three months after my purchase. I do not care if other people have to wait longer in line because I argue and am put ahead of them. It is their fault for being too shy about their problems, and it's Apple's fault for my iPod mini's defect. Maybe if they could be a little more reliable with their products then they wouldn't have so many people at their Genius Bar.

Just to clarify something: I was not impolite. I rarely am. Asking a Mac representative why you can't be placed ahead of everyone else in line is not impolite. Calling that representative a moron would be impolite.

The one thing support people hate is when people are at their heels. If you keep on asking them for support, they will eventually give it to you so that you will shut up and let them finish their shift in peace.

The friend I was with when I got my iPod mini replaced is a die-hard Mac fan and Steve Jobs worshipper, and he loves everything about Apple, but even he said that it was the worst experience he had had with Apple support people.

[rinseout]

[...]I do not care if other people have to wait longer in line because I argue and am put ahead of them. It is their fault for being too shy about their problems, and it's Apple's fault for my iPod mini's defect.
[...]
Just to clarify something: I was not impolite. I rarely am. Asking a Mac representative why you can't be placed ahead of everyone else in line is not impolite. Calling that representative a moron would be impolite.

That's interesting. Where I'm from, queue-jumping is impolite. Full stop. Here, queues form because the rate of arrival of people in the queue is larger than that of the rate of their leaving the queue (in some time-averaged sense); queue-formation is not something caused by the shyness of the people arriving to be served.

This has been educational. If I'm ever in NYC (and after this, I'm in no rush to visit), I'll be sure to ignore any queues and maybe say a kind word or two to the poor shy people who can't get up the courage to approach the counter.

I would have thought that the Apple employees would have been nice enough to assist customers too timid to receive their help at the genius bar. Crazy city!

[Ryvius]

Back on topic...the pixel is back.

Dead pixel. Not a hair. Not a spec of dust. Not a glitch in the background wallpaper.

It seems white, the typical bright land phenomenon in a singular spot.

I tried rubbing it again and it's gone again.

But isn't that damn strange, a reoccuring dead pixel? Same place, same size?

Or stuck pixel in this case?

[johnnyjibbs]

Ya, well...I'm from New York City, and I am completely certain that it is a cultural thing. It's their job to give me technical support when I have trouble with their products. I am not going to pay $99 dollars a year for ProCare support when I already spent $249 and have had trouble only three months after my purchase. I do not care if other people have to wait longer in line because I argue and am put ahead of them. It is their fault for being too shy about their problems, and it's Apple's fault for my iPod mini's defect. Maybe if they could be a little more reliable with their products then they wouldn't have so many people at their Genius Bar.

Just to clarify something: I was not impolite. I rarely am. Asking a Mac representative why you can't be placed ahead of everyone else in line is not impolite. Calling that representative a moron would be impolite.

The one thing support people hate is when people are at their heels. If you keep on asking them for support, they will eventually give it to you so that you will shut up and let them finish their shift in peace.

The friend I was with when I got my iPod mini replaced is a die-hard Mac fan and Steve Jobs worshipper, and he loves everything about Apple, but even he said that it was the worst experience he had had with Apple support people.
If everyone was not "too shy about their problems" everyone would be fighting to be first in the queue and that would get no-one anywhere. That's what queuing is about - a civilised and fair way of being served on a first come first serve basis. You don't know, some guy in front could have had the exact same problem as you, but it happened to him/her first and so he/she is in front of you in the queue. I'd be pretty pissed off if I was that person, politely waiting in queue in a civilised manner (and maybe as irrate towards Apple that this has happened as you), and you came storming through. I'm sure the normal guy working behind the genius bar wouldn't like it either - he's only doing his job.

Anyway, on topic, there is nothing that can be done about 1 dead pixel in Apple's book. I have one and I don't worry about it. Yours is in a corner so it probably isn't that bad. A lot of companies have a similar policy to Apple. It can be annoying but it keeps the costs of LCDs down.

[aswitcher]

Anyway, on topic, there is nothing that can be done about 1 dead pixel in Apple's book. I have one and I don't worry about it. Yours is in a corner so it probably isn't that bad. A lot of companies have a similar policy to Apple. It can be annoying but it keeps the costs of LCDs down.


Applecare would be allot more attractive if it went soem way to guarenteeing a perfect screen. Its damn expensive as is.

[legion]

Applecare would be allot more attractive if it went soem way to guarenteeing a perfect screen. Its damn expensive as is.
Or even a good return/guarantee policy like other companies (ie, no restocking fee and at least 2 weeks grace period to do returns, no questions asked)