PDA

View Full Version : What is going on with the G5?


Falleron
Dec 11, 2001, 03:11 PM
Ok people, lets have a summary of what we are getting in january!

Has or has the G5 not gone into production?
Will it just be the G4 (new spec) chip?
Are the iMac rumours from 1 source? If so is it correct?

http://www.macosrumorus.com is still not available, whats going on?

MacManiac1224
Dec 11, 2001, 03:31 PM
I am with Falleron on this one. I think everybody is just as confused as us on this topic. My idea is this: No matter what anybody says, it is basically all rumors, except that thing with Apple ordering 100,000 15' LCD displays. I am all for the G5, but we really won't know until Jan 8. I guess we are just playing a guessing game.

Falleron
Dec 11, 2001, 03:37 PM
Everybody has no idea whats going to happen with the powerMacs! Its not a good thing to speculate too much because we will all be disappointed when the G5 does not come out until the summer (even if we want it in january).

oldMac
Dec 11, 2001, 03:58 PM
That means apple must be getting into the digital billboard market, don't you think?

joey j
Dec 11, 2001, 04:15 PM
>Ok people, lets have a summary of what we are getting in january!
>Has or has the G5 not gone into production?

(G5 desktop boxes or MPC8500 processor?)

It should have (8500) by now; the 8500 should have been taped out months
ago (even by relaxed expectations). Motorola has announced their 8540,
which contains a Book E compliant core (i.e. a G5 core) sans altivec (the
pdf says "222 new simd instructions" iirc -- odd, probably not altivec II;
it would have been branded such otherwise). So the G5 core is finished and
presumably the 8500 is not significantly different from the 8540 (same
core, plus altivec rather than these mysterious "222 new simd
instructions" the pdf mentioned). If the 8540 has gone into production
then I believe it would be safe to assume the 8500 is ready to go into
production also. Apple would presumably be chomping at the bit for 8500s,
so it stands to reason that Moto is fabricating them as we speak.

*pant* *pant* [i did that in full so no one annoys me with phony-sounding
pessimism -- it annoys me]

So I conclude that Motorola has finished the 8500 and that it is currently
in fabrication en masse for apple (or will be soon, my point is that the
obstacles have been cleared given the hard evidence of the 8540 we have so
far). So assuming my logic is sound, Apple will release 8500-based Pro
desktops provided they get a sufficient volume of 8500s. Apple can always
buy themselves another month by announcing the G5 macs in February
(macworld tokyo), shipping say 4-6 weeks after (notice that by then, we're
~halfway to MWNY :p). That should buy Apple plenty of time -- one month at
least -- to accumulate more G5s/shout at||threaten motorola/get moto to
get yields up/whatever it takes, and without needing a G4 refresh in the
interim.



>Will it just be the G4 (new spec) chip?

The rumours state that Apple will ship Apollo processors in their pro
line, but the actual line itself will be branded the Power Macintosh G5.

I doubt Apple will do this; if so, when the 8500-based Pro line is
released, what will Apple name that? (`G6'?)



>Are the iMac rumours from 1 source? If so is it correct?

How are we meant to tell if the rumours are correct? :p



>http://www.macosrumorus.com is still not available, whats going on?

(is it that big a deal?) mosr's always (constantly, chronically) upgrading
servers/switching providers/going on holiday etc etc etc. Their pace of
update has slowed to a crawl in the past year or so, particularly since
their switching to OS X Server (probably a good thing given their track
record).

Falleron
Dec 11, 2001, 05:47 PM
Who in their right mind will spend large amounts of money on an apollo based powermac in mid january when they could get a G5 in say febuary/march? From what I have read the G5 will give a large bump in speed --> making the january systems almost straight away out of date!

I know that all systems as soon as you buy them are out of date, but such a large revision so soon???

Kethoticus
Dec 11, 2001, 05:56 PM
"*pant* *pant* [i did that in full so no one annoys me with phony-sounding pessimism -- it annoys me]"

No phony pessimism here buster. If it SOUNDS phony, I deeply, passionately, from the bottom-most reaches of my heart, apologize.


"Their pace of update has slowed to a crawl in the past year or so, particularly since their switching to OS X Server (probably a good thing given their track record)."

Ayyyymen. No great loss there. Kinda like AOL UK not supporting Mac OS X. I know I won't be shedding any tears.

joey j
Dec 12, 2001, 08:30 AM
Falleron>Who in their right mind will spend large amounts of money on an
apollo based powermac in mid january when they could get a G5 in say
febuary/march?

That was my point, namely that Apple doesn't need to release Apollo based
powermacs in january even if they can't get volume from moto -- they can
buy a month by releasing at tokyo. That's ~4 weeks in hand to accumulate
stocks of 8500s.

Falleron
Dec 12, 2001, 08:33 AM
I think they should do that (even though I want a G5 now!!), so do you think we will only get new iMacs in january? Makes sense really, give all attention to the iMac?

joey j
Dec 12, 2001, 01:20 PM
Falleron> I think they should do that (even though I want a G5 now!!), so
do you think we will only get new iMacs in january? Makes sense really,
give all attention to the iMac?

Good point. Apple wouldn't want to announce a whole new imac revamp and
the G5 (8500, NOT the Apollo, I doubt strongly that Apple will badge 7460s
as `G5s') at the same expo. So if volume production is humming along fine
as we speak and apple can get their hands on good supplies of G5s, then G5
in january and perhaps (_perhaps_) a tokyo imac announcement. However, if
Apple wants to announce the G5 in february due to poor G5 yields, then the
imac will have to be shoehorned into january -- meaning no major updates
as the FX will not be shipping then as I gather, it will only be sampling
in January, meaning announcement-only, delayed-release. In that case,
Apple would probably aim a revamped imac at MWNY. I have already stated my
case above that the 8500 is finished (without having to rely on rumour =])
so assuming my logic is sound, Apple's release schedule 2002 will most
likely rely on 8500 yields.

So in short, January imacs would be a spec-bump-only if released. Apple
would aim a substantial revamp mid-year.

rekras
Dec 12, 2001, 02:10 PM
on apple's hotnews today under the steve jobs keynote, steve says, "We're working hard to make this January's Macworld the most exciting ever." sounds cool

-i think it's pretty clear now that the way overdue imac will come out

-but i still think everyone is still pretty confused over the G5, i think i'd be dumb if they speed bumped the g4's now and but the g5s out in feb, it's either now or New York

MacManiac1224
Dec 12, 2001, 02:23 PM
I think that Apple will probaly release the new iMac line in Jan with the G4 Apollo chip. My other thinking is that Apple would release the G5 in Maworld Tokyo. That sounds good to me. MWNY might have something new instore: maybe like a new digital device.

joey j
Dec 12, 2001, 02:43 PM
MacManiac1224> I think that Apple will probaly release the new iMac line
in Jan with the G4 Apollo chip. My other thinking is that Apple would
release the G5 in Maworld Tokyo.

Indeed. G5-at-tokyo would buy Apple the extra few weeks to accumulate
8500s. Above I asserted that the January iMacs (assuming they're released
in january due to the G5s being forced to February) being spec-bumps at
most; G4s are a distinct possibility (don't know how I forgot to mention
Apollo-based imacs, i think i was hungry at the time =]); in fact it's
probable in at least the top end iMacs due to the FX missing the boat
somewhat. Low-end imac revisions at MWNY could conceivably have FXs, but I
believe that Apple will transition the entire imac line to G4s in one hit
in jan/feb or over jan/feb and MWNY (july? iirc). I believe that Apple
will use the FX for laptops, IBM's releases on the matter lead me to
believe that the FX would make a superb iBook processor with its
nonexistent power consumption and Altivec compatibility (assuming the SIMD
units referred to by many pan out as true, I haven't investigated it
further -- check
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/products/PowerPC_750FX_Microprocessor
and view the middle and last documents (PDFs, 200 - 300k each -- I don't
have the time right now to check them out, so if there's no mention of
SIMD in them...)


> That sounds good to me. MWNY might have something new instore: maybe
like a new digital device.

Possibly, a step further in the digital hub initiative maybe? If Apple can
get volume of higher-clockspeed G5s, i'm sure they would be chomping at
the bit to get some back at the Wintel world 8-)

dantec
Dec 12, 2001, 02:47 PM
G5's will be announced at Macworld & ship in February. iMacs will ship with APPLEos and "hopefully" (lets all pray now) the flatpanel iMac will be launched. I just hope the GeForce 3 Titanium 500 will be launched. We had the original GeForce 3 first & now the PC get all the priveleges with the upgraded version!

Ensign Paris
Dec 12, 2001, 02:55 PM
I think we will see:

G5s Announced but not released
G4 slightly upgraded with max being 1ghz
NEW DESIGN iMac! at 1ghz

Guy

Falleron
Dec 12, 2001, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Ensign Paris
I think we will see:

G5s Announced but not released
G4 slightly upgraded with max being 1ghz
NEW DESIGN iMac! at 1ghz

Guy

I think the G4 will bumped up to 1.2Ghz

rickag
Dec 12, 2001, 06:49 PM
joey j
"If the 8540 has gone into production then I believe it would be safe to assume the 8500 is ready to go into production also. "

If you go to Motorola's website using the following link;
http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,1958,568_322_23,00.html

and read the article you will find the following quote;
Samples of the MPC8540 are expected to be available in the second half of 2002.

Because the MPC8450 is presumably a much less complicated chip than a desktop cpu, I would think the G5 for use by Apple will come after the MPC8450 is in production. I very well could be wrong, I HOPE I'm wrong, but based on this info. I'm not expecting Apple to begin using a G5 for quite some time.

[Edited by rickag on 12-12-2001 at 07:53 PM]

Kethoticus
Dec 12, 2001, 07:38 PM
"Because the MPC8450 is presumably a much less complicated chip than a desktop cpu, I would think the G5 for use by Apple will come after the MPC8450 is in production. I very well could be wrong, I HOPE I'm wrong, but based on this info. I'm not expecting Apple to begin using a G5 for quite some time."

Hmmm... don't wanna say anything. Don't want to be accused of feigning pessimism.

joey j
Dec 13, 2001, 01:22 AM
joey j> "If the 8540 has gone into production then I believe it would be
safe to assume the 8500 is ready to go into production also. "[/QUOTE]

>If you go to Motorola's website using the following link;
http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,1958,568_322_23,00.html

>and read the article you will find the following quote;
>Samples of the MPC8540 are expected to be available in the second half of 2002.

I should have refined my argument further; remove all instances of "has
gone into production" and replace with "is finished". I presumed that
finished architectures go immediately into production, which may not
necessarily be the case (although it is unnerving :( )

In any case the book E core should have been finished by now; Motorola may
very well be working on the SIMD extensions to the 8540 (which may be the
reason for the delay) whereas the 8500 has altivec (finished). If the book
E core is finished (which should be a safe assumption -- any objections?),
and Altivec is finished, then the 8500 should be finished, unless i've
missed an area of processor development in particular.


>Because the MPC8450 is presumably a much less complicated chip than a desktop cpu,

I disagree; as they're both book E compliant (as opposed to the
differences between (say) the 4xx and the 74xx series) so there's no major
difference, apart from the potentially complicated extra SIMD extensions
to the 8540. (which motorola could still be in the process of designing).


> I would think the G5 for use by Apple will come after the MPC8450 is in
production. I very well could be wrong, I HOPE I'm wrong, but based on
this info. I'm not expecting Apple to begin using a G5 for quite some time.

Apple has had the 74xx architecture since ~sep 99. They won't wait another
year for the G5; six months maybe.

Kethoticus
Dec 13, 2001, 02:42 AM
"Apple has had the 74xx architecture since ~sep 99. They won't wait another year for the G5; six months maybe."

Apple's hands were tied by Moto 2 years ago, and they've only broken the 500MHz barrier this past year. Apple "won't wait another year"? What if they have no choice?

As Mulder's poster said, "I want to believe." But what I want to believe in may be just as impossible.

joey j
Dec 13, 2001, 07:35 AM
Kethoticus> "Apple has had the 74xx architecture since ~sep 99. They won't
wait another year for the G5; six months maybe."

>Apple's hands were tied by Moto 2 years ago, and they've only broken the
500MHz barrier this past year. Apple "won't wait another year"? What if
they have no choice?

>As Mulder's poster said, "I want to believe." But what I want to believe
in may be just as impossible.


Haha, true, Apple's hands are indeed tied by Moto's yields. I was
reasoning that Apple had been setting up alternative fabrication
partnerships given Motorola's lacklustre fabrication of the G4 series. In
any case, the G5 will be fabricated in Moto's new process (all the
buzzwords), 0.13u transitioning to 0.1u, low-k-constant dielectrics, and
SOI. So the G5s should have better yields than the G4s.

rickag
Dec 13, 2001, 11:57 AM
"E core is finished (which should be a safe assumption -- any objections?)"

No, but if you go to the link below and to page 4 it says;
"-e500 core. Motorola's first G5 offering, optimized for performance and power, specifically designed for embedded market"

http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDFH1101.pdf

Note that the e500 core is the one used in the MPC8450. Two things stand out to me.

1 "the e500 is the first G5 offering"
2 "specifically designed for embedded market"

This tells me that a different core will be used for chips for the desktop market and they will come after the MPC8450.

So for a chip for Apple = new core, tying it to RapidI/O, OCeaN (On-Chip Network)., etc. In my very limited knowledge this still would be very complicated.

Still hope I'm wrong and the G5 comes out, but regardless, I'm buying in Jan. :)

Oh one more note: look to page 19 of the PDF concerning the MPC7540 G4
"-DDR SRAM L3 backside cache design implementation"
"- MVP will be offered to customers as a development system in 3Q01"

Combined this w/ HiP7(0.13 and SOI) for the MPC7460 Apollo = very very nice upgrade.

jefhatfield
Dec 13, 2001, 12:16 PM
that's why this website is called macrumors, duh

joey j
Dec 13, 2001, 01:22 PM
joey j> "E core is finished (which should be a safe assumption -- any
objections?)"

rickag>No, but if you go to the link below and to page 4 it says; "-e500
core. Motorola's first G5 offering, optimized for performance and power,
specifically designed for embedded market"

... sounds like marketingspeak to me :p. It does have "optimized for
performance and power", see? :p. As far as "specifically designed for
embedded market goes", um, see below, i'm replying to you bottom-up for
some reason. The "specifically designed" features could be the
(apparently) DSP-like functionality in the 8540, which Apple most
likely won't be using (and is the most likely delay to the 8540, apart
from maybe the extra simd instructions apple won't require either).



>http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDFH1101.pdf

>Note that the e500 core is the one used in the MPC8450. Two things stand
out to me.

>1 "the e500 is the first G5 offering"
>2 "specifically designed for embedded market"

>This tells me that a different core will be used for chips for the
desktop market and they will come after the MPC8450.

( ... 8540.)

A different core? Hardly. I doubt Motorola's going to design an entire new
"core" (note the vagueness of the term), particularly if your conclusion
was reached on the basis of marketing speak (their press release was for
the benefit of their customers, i.e. largely the embedded market, they
want to hear that the 8540 is specifically "designed for the embedded
market" whether or not that particular book E implementation goes down
well in desktops or not.) Remember that the same second-generation G4 core
in the 7450 core serves both cisco and Apple, so I can't see why Moto
can't pull the same stunt with the G5 core.



>So for a chip for Apple = new core,

I disagree altogether. A "new core" means either a ground up redesign
(e.g. G5) or at least a major step forward from a previous architecture
(603e -> 7xx). It's not going to happen; the 8540 core is the "G5 core"
which Apple undoubtedly must have prototypes of (at least). Although
that's just my opinion 8)



> tying it to RapidI/O, OCeaN (On-Chip Network)., etc. In my very limited
knowledge this still would be very complicated.

Is apple going to use rapidio? Bear in mind that Apple is listed as part
of the hypertransport consortium. In any case I have read that rapidio is
"ready to go". I don't have the url but the quote was from someone from
the Microprocessor Report as i recall.

Kethoticus
Dec 13, 2001, 03:12 PM
Jef wrote: "assuming a lot?"

Learn the differences between assumption, hope, expectation and rumor. What I'm reading here is a lot of expectation.

Kethoticus
Dec 13, 2001, 03:21 PM
... is this. You wrote: "A different core? Hardly. I doubt Motorola's going to design an entire new "core" (note the vagueness of the term), particularly if your conclusion was reached on the basis of marketing speak (their press release was for the benefit of their customers, i.e. largely the embedded market, they
want to hear that the 8540 is specifically "designed for the embedded market" whether or not that particular book E implementation goes down well in desktops or not.) Remember that the same second-generation G4 core in the 7450 core serves both cisco and Apple, so I can't see why Moto can't pull the same stunt with the G5 core."

When we only see them advertising their networking capabilities, we wonder why it is they're not also bragging about their desktop capabilities. An NDA with Apple? I dunno. They could at least mention the word "desktop", but we don't see that anywhere. If they're writing the above for the benefit of their networking customers, they should also write a piece devoted to their desktop customers--that is, if it was ready. But it doesn't sound like it is.

dantec
Dec 13, 2001, 03:57 PM
How do you do that green winking/smiley face?

joey j
Dec 14, 2001, 08:13 AM
Kethoticus> you assume a lot

Only when I can justify it, see page 1 and any supplementary posts.



> What I'm reading here is a lot of expectation

The fact that I can make a good case for the G5's release in January does
not necessarily mean that I expect Apple to release it in January (while I
can see why how one would _appear_ to follow another, it is purely
superficial and any causal relationship inferred between the two is a non
sequitur).

In fact I'm not too hopeful myself, but I figured I could make myself snap
out of it if I made a convincing case for the 85xx to be released ~jan/feb
(it's sort-of working... deep seated doubt is still there. that'll be a
bitch to shift.)

(there's the truth. happy? :p)



>When we only see them advertising their networking capabilities, we
wonder why it is they're not also bragging about their desktop capabilities.

Could this be because the 8540 is aimed at the embedded market?
(rhetorical question). Remember that the literature so far is all about
the 8540, the processor, not the core. if the 8540 is (again, the 8540,
not "the book E compliant fifth-generation core in general) not intended
at the desktop market, its literature won't talk about non-existent
desktop applications.

In any case Motorola should be extending Apple the courtesy of announcing
products, as one of Moto's UK reps (paul clark?) said in an interview with
Macworld UK (dig around at http://www.macworld.co.uk).



> An NDA with Apple? I dunno.

NDA as part of a purchasing contract (remember that Apple never releases
info on products before launch)? Possible; in the Macworld UK interview
with the Moto rep, he said that Moto extended Apple the courtesy of
announcing their products; announcing the desktop G5 is tantamount to
announcing Apple's G5 desktop. However I doubt an NDA would be in place as
the 85xx series processor that Apple would employ would be similar to the
8540 (the clause would effectively censor Moto from talking about all book
E cored processors.) If an NDA is in place, it would probably relate not
to the processor or core themselves, but to any possible applications in
desktop products. Of course the most likely probability is the fact that
the 8540 isn't a desktop processor and hence any promotional or
informational literature released for it won't mention desktop capabilities.



> They could at least mention the word "desktop",

(the 8540's not a desktop processor)

As i pointed out just above, the implication then would be Apple is going
to ship G5 pro desktops. In any case, the 8540 _is_ a networking
processor, NOT a desktop processor. Hence it is targeted at the networking
market. Hence promotional literature and press releases are going to be
oriented toward the networking market. Given that it's easy to see
precisely WHY the 8540 press release didn't mention its desktop capabilities.



> but we don't see that anywhere.

... because the 8540 isn't a desktop processor.



> If they're writing the above for the benefit of their networking
customers, they should also write a piece devoted to their desktop
customers

8540 != desktop processor. Hence there's not going to be anything about
desktop applications. In any case, Moto doesn't have ANY desktop customers
(worth anything) apart from Apple. Announcing a desktop 8500 (which
wasn't the point of the 8540 press release in any case) is tantamount to
stealing Apple's thunder (ref Radeon incident.)


>that is, if it was ready. But it doesn't sound like it is.

... your turn.

rickag
Dec 14, 2001, 09:04 AM
I agree, the reference to the e500 core being designed for the embedded market is specifically referring to the MPC8450(an embedded chip).

joey j
"A different core? Hardly."
"8540 != desktop processor. Hence there's not going to be anything about desktop applications."

But the title to the PDF document is "PowerPC Microprocessors Today and Tomorrow" by Brian Wilkie, Corporate VP and General Manager Computing Platform Division.

If you go to page 10 of the PDF document, in the description of the e500 core(not the MPC8450) it states the e500 core is:
-Motorola's first Power PC Book E Architecture implementation of the G5 products.(please note the word first)
-Configurable to meet market-specific needs

so your right, not a completely new core, but most probably a reconfigured core to meet desktop needs.

Rapid I/O, I don't know, but that is what is listed on the roadmap, and that is what the MPC8450 has developed for this series.
Ssoooo, by following this reasoning, if the G5 for desktops is to implement Hypertransport, my guess this would even further delay the introduction of a G5 for desktops. Also, it would no longer fit Motorola's roadmap. Maybe the future chip for Apple's desktops is not on any roadmap at all??

And again, I hope I'm wrong and the G5 is introduced in Jan. @ MWSF. I will be buying in Jan. regardless and would be extremely happy if the low end tower contains the G4 Apollo(0.13 & SOI) @ 933 MHz w/ DDRsdram and 1Mb backside cache, Geforce graphics card. However, if past history is an indicator the low end tower won't have backside cache and may be stuck w/ left over motherboards @ 133MHz bus.(note: I'd stll be happy)
I would be absolutely delighted w/ a G5, but really think it won't appear until 3rd-4th quarter 2002.



.

joey j
Dec 14, 2001, 12:46 PM
>But the title to the PDF document is "PowerPC Microprocessors Today and
Tomorrow" by Brian Wilkie, Corporate VP and General Manager Computing
Platform Division.

(are they going to talk about processors intended for Apple's consumption
only? as i asserted earlier, announcing the desktop 85xx is tantamount to
announcing the G5 powermac, and we do remember the Radeon fiasco...).

A more relevant observation is `which processors/cores do they go into
detail about'? They talk about the e500, and most of the points they make
aren't particularly specific to any application, it appears to me as a
32-bit G5 core with networking-specific extensions. Given the delay in
8540 sampling, and that cores of processors would be worked on first (an
assumption, but i can't see why not), I conclude that the delay would
probably be the DSP-like design and all the extra cruft that Apple doesn't
need (hence my conclusion that the processor is, to Apple, finished).

(Or perhaps the delay to the 8540 is due to limited capacity -- Moto will
be too busy cranking out 8500s for Apple? ;))

Also, the document is somewhat dated -- i can't remember precisely where,
but they speak in the future tense of past events (if i remember i will
post the specific example(s) here). Also observe that the 7440 was meant
to be in production in "December 2001".



>If you go to page 10 of the PDF document, in the description of the e500
core(not the MPC8450) it states the e500 core is:
-Motorola's first Power PC Book E Architecture implementation of the
G5 products.(please note the word first)
-Configurable to meet market-specific needs

Again, bear in mind that most of the dot points on pg 10 were generic and
applicable to Apple also.



>so your right, not a completely new core, but most probably a reconfigured
core to meet desktop needs.

True, reconfigurations of the core could include altivec rather than the
new dsp-like functionality which seems to be included, or 64-bit
addressing (although I doubt 64-bit addressing would be a high priority
for a product intended for shipping at some point next year; 2002 maybe).



>Rapid I/O, I don't know, but that is what is listed on the roadmap, and
that is what the MPC8450

... 8540. (it is 85xx is it not?)



> has developed for this series. Ssoooo, by following this reasoning, if
the G5 for desktops is to implement Hypertransport, my guess this would
even further delay the introduction of a G5 for desktops.

Hasn't nVidia already implemented HT in nForce? (maybe it's a partial
implementation and requires serious work to bring up to Apple's required
spec). Apple's on the committee, so surely if they were going to use HT
they'd have known about it long enough by now (and hence would be
designing G5 prototypes w/HT, or perhaps certain elements of HT grafted
on to MPX or 60x, in a pinch).



> Also, it would no longer fit Motorola's roadmap. Maybe the future chip
for Apple's desktops is not on any roadmap at all??

Must it fit Moto's roadmap? Apple's always had at least a hand in the PPC
effort, from its inception even, and hence probably had employees working
on it, and they're probably more vigilant now given the fabrication crisis
(farce) of the past two years. So Apple may indeed not be sticking to
Moto's roadmap -- in any case Moto's never made clear if their PPC roadmap
is just Moto's production roadmap or _the_ production roadmap for Moto and
partners (i.e. Moto and Apple -- IBM seems independent enough).



>And again, I hope I'm wrong and the G5 is introduced in Jan. @ MWSF. I
will be buying in Jan. regardless and would be extremely happy if the low
end tower contains the G4 Apollo(0.13 & SOI) @ 933 MHz w/ DDRsdram and
1Mb backside cache, Geforce graphics card. However, if past history is an
indicator the low end tower won't have backside cache and may be stuck w/
left over motherboards @ 133MHz bus.(note: I'd stll be happy) I would be
absolutely delighted w/ a G5, but really think it won't appear until
3rd-4th quarter 2002.

I've been stuck with that feeling too, and I can't snap out of it, or do
anything apart from make a case for the G5 to console myself :(. We're
resigned to what we get. Enjoy your new powermac (lots) upon receipt, and
remember always the pessimist's creed: Either you're proven right or
pleasantly surprised :p

dantec
Dec 14, 2001, 02:29 PM
Can't anyone just tell me how to do that green smiley face that Joey j does???

joey j
Dec 14, 2001, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by dantec
Can't anyone just tell me how to do that green smiley face that Joey j does???

what, like this? ;)

semicolon ;
close parenthesis )

Kethoticus
Dec 14, 2001, 04:35 PM
"your turn."

Nah... I grow weary of this debate. I expect (yes, I EXPECT) Apollos at the least this Jan. So no matter how you slice it, I think we're in for a good MWExpo this time around. LCD iMacs may be a bit more unrealistic, I think, but not impossible.

That's it. That's my word on this. No more "non-sequitors" Mr. J.

Raptor
Dec 14, 2001, 05:07 PM
(1) With respect to possible hardware introductions at MacWord San Francisco next January, given the slump in computer sales generally, is it not likely that Steve Jobs will wish to stimulate demand for Apple by offering significantly more attractive products as early as possible in 2002?

(2) The present G4s are very fast. Acccordingly, rather than providing higher and higher clock speeds to meet practical needs --such as manipulting images and editing video--is the speed race related more to meeting owners' desires for bragging rights, and creating sales appeal to relatively inexperienced shoppers?

(3) What would be the likely differences in CPUs using a new-spec G4 chip or a G5?

(4) The Cinema Display has great appeal and practicality. Would demand for it--and the appeal of Apple in general--increase greatly with a significantly lower price for that display?

(5) What is the liklihood of an even better video card being supplied in the top CPU to appeal to game and flight-simulator fans?

(6) Is it likely that a Superdrive will be supplied with even the base G4 (or G5) model?

(7) If that happens, what apart from clock speed will be done to differentiate the three CPU models?

(8) Could faster G4s become the base and mid models, with the G5 designation reserved for the top model--at least for 2002?

DannyZR2
Dec 15, 2001, 06:29 AM
can we stop with the badly formatted quoting?

how about just writing your opinion and not

>answering

>everything

>with

>these

>STUPID

>Promts!


it's just easier to read, that's all. stop rewriting everything that has already been posted.. that's why it's still there, so we can all read it, then read what you have to say...

DannyZR2
Dec 15, 2001, 06:33 AM
I think the appeal, raptor, of having the G5 is simply having 64 bit processing.. (backward compatible of course) versus 32 bit of every other desktop processor out today...

joey j
Dec 15, 2001, 07:49 AM
dannyzr2>can we stop with the badly formatted quoting?

I hardly count `>' as badly formatted quoting. The others who use it would
agree with me.

(I would gladly use a superior alternative. Do you have one?)


>how about just writing your opinion and not

I'm answering _to_ people; so i let the readers know what they wrote and
what I'm writing.


>answering

>everything

>with

>these

>STUPID

>Promts!



>it's just easier to read,

One single angle bracket causes you so much grief?


> that's all.

If your grievance is so insignificant, why then did you complain in the
first place?


> stop rewriting everything that has already been posted..

... people have to see specifically what i'm replying to without having to
scroll up and down constantly. What's needed is a _threaded_ BB system.
Perhaps you should waste your energy (the admins here don't care -- but
you can still try if you want) complaining about the absense of threads.

Kela
Dec 15, 2001, 09:27 AM
like i said earlier....the new generation (i.e post August)
of macposters are all freaks.

I even have to admit that the I miss John123 and his supporters.

jefhatfield
Dec 16, 2001, 10:12 PM
...as well as on other mac related forums

for some reason, the mac-based forums i have seen since 1998 have been a lot more unfriendly and prone to insulting than any of the pc forums i have belonged to

maybe this is just a coincidence, but i think the freaky nature of the post august posters is not that much different than the pre-august posters or that of the posters i have seen now for three and a half years since i have been surfing chatroom type forums on the mac side (there just are different players in the postings as macrumors gains new people and loses old people, or the old people re-up with different names)

this may be a big generalization, but the mac side of the IT field has been more of a touchy feely, artistic, subjective experience where as the pc forums side seems to be more objective and analytical (or "cold" if you want to characterize that side negatively)

i have to admit, i have enjoyed some the the discussions between you, spikey, and john123 and that has been the most dominant discussion group i have seen yet, but i cannot speak for the very first few months of macrumors since i wasn't there

i too miss john123 but he will be back because anyone with 250+ posts doesn't just jump ship from what i have seen but take vacations from macrumors from time to time

DannyZR2
Dec 20, 2001, 05:05 AM
hey kela, haven't seen you round in a while..

sorry you throw me in with the newbies.. i certainly see what you mean with some of these around here.

guess i feel like i've been around longer reading posts, but not registering...

spikey
Dec 21, 2001, 12:33 PM
I dont mind this new breed of poster, they are quite easy to debate with. They just say something slightly intelligent and then repeat it ******* knows how many times, even though you won the debate.

I just cant keep up with the amount of active threads on macrumors. Thats why i think i will retire soon.

jefhatfield
Dec 21, 2001, 12:39 PM
you are one of the posters that kept macrumors alive during the dry spells and it looks like we are in a dry spell right now

we are like the san francisco giants and you are like barry bonds and it would be bad if you left

you swing the best bat and the forum need someone to battle john123 and his evil alter ego (you know who) because they will take your place and we can't have a unicameral house of commons here

spikey
Dec 21, 2001, 12:52 PM
Not really a dry spell, just alot of rubbish made up by nasty people who dont know anything about computers.

This forum is still growing, its really hard to keep up.
And its pointless debating with some of the new characters, they have an idea and repeat it till it dies.

(notice the lack of swears, just for you Arn.)

spikey
Dec 21, 2001, 01:51 PM
btw congrats on the 500 jef.

mischief
Dec 21, 2001, 02:03 PM
There's one you don't hear in the States very often. Are you a Brit? Canadian? Or just particularly well travelled.

spikey
Dec 21, 2001, 02:21 PM
Hes cultured. and probably well travelled.

agreenster
Dec 21, 2001, 02:33 PM
You aren't too far from 500 there yourself.

Before you know it, you two will have to design a little smiley face with a white beard on it.

:)

jefhatfield
Dec 22, 2001, 10:32 AM
being a rural boy, i just got lucky enough to study a semester abroad through cal poly in london at london university

and being old for this forum, about twice the age of the average person i guess, you get to go places due to having seen twice as many sunsets

most of my youth was spent being a rock musician so culture is the last thing i ever wanted to experience but i did discover opera this year and i actually like it...verdi, donizetti, wagner, mozart, and puccini (don't quote me on the spellings of the names)

thanks for the congrats on 500 spikey and you are very close to that number yourself

i earlier predicted Mac_User or JoeyJ would catch up with us but my new prospect for reaching the highest posts next year is mischief...but if joey split his posts into smaller chunks he would be at 400 by now so it really comes down to words and ideas more than sheer numbers of posts and i have really put up a lot of useless posts in the past, but sometimes to get a reaction to make sure people were still willing to defend the mighty mac

jefhatfield
Dec 22, 2001, 10:42 AM
and having early senility set in causes me to forget a lot and, get many posts, so i could answer the first question which is "no"

i am not a brit, canadian, or a member of the commonwaelth anywhere

i am a northern californian who lives just south of santa cruz/san jose/san francisco and the bay area

but when i was in london, i got separated from the other american cal poly students and hooked up with a girl from yorkshire so by the time i came back to america, i had a slight english accent...the same thing happens to the english who come to america

i pick up southern accents in just an afternoon talking to a southerner and new york accents are also infectious

mnkeybsness
Dec 22, 2001, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by spikey
I dont mind this new breed of poster, they are quite easy to debate with. They just say something slightly intelligent and then repeat it ******* knows how many times, even though you won the debate.

I just cant keep up with the amount of active threads on macrumors. Thats why i think i will retire soon.




DEATH TO SPIKEY!!!
oh no, now who am i going to fight with.

spikey
Dec 22, 2001, 03:45 PM
Im not sure how to take that.

but dont worry, i despise you too.

DannyZR2
Dec 23, 2001, 04:08 AM
i agree with jef, spikey. it'd be sad if you left. i think we all enjoy your honest posts.

someone's got to keep the bs level down.. i think the cursing was very helpful.. even though it was pretty blunt at times..

agreenster
Dec 24, 2001, 07:31 AM
Yeah. Dont retire. If you have to slow down, then slow down but dont quit.

I didnt like you at first (it was just that charming personality of yours...ha),
but I think MacRumors would be entirely too full of 'agreeable' people if you left.

mnkeybsness
Dec 24, 2001, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by agreenster
Yeah. Dont retire. If you have to slow down, then slow down but dont quit.

I didnt like you at first (it was just that charming personality of yours...ha),
but I think MacRumors would be entirely too full of 'agreeable' people if you left.

i liked spikey at first, until he got like 50 posts and thought he was the sh**. he's been a dick ever since.

spikey
Dec 24, 2001, 02:46 PM
thats 50 more posts than you.

mnkeybsness
Dec 24, 2001, 05:38 PM
ouch


at least i try to be nice sometimes.

Kela
Dec 25, 2001, 02:57 AM
SPIKEY YOU CAN'T LEAVE!!! WE OWN THIS FORUM!! JOhn123 has left, already look what has happned!! You leave and macrumors.com loses out. Its like a chain reaction. I leave 2.
- kela

mnkeybsness
Dec 25, 2001, 06:53 PM
yes, leave, all of you.

excellent-mwa-ah-ah

g5
Dec 26, 2001, 12:46 AM
i heard the g5 is comming out in march at the tokyo show and that the imac2 and the newer g4 will come out from the sf show. But what is the deal with the powerfullMac r$ thing? ive seen pictures and rumors of things like powerfulmac r1, r2, r3, and r4. can someone explain that? and how about the g4 quad with 4 chips? is that for real?

Falleron
Dec 26, 2001, 05:24 AM
I think that it is entirely feasible that apple could make a quad processor server to be released in january! Everybody wants the G5 in january (including myself) but it looks like you could be right about march. This is if apple cant pull a rabit out of the bag!!! Lets keeps our fingers crossed.