Tiger (Mac OS X 10.4) Details?

[MacRumors]

Appleinsider claims to have (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=473) some early details from the upcoming Mac OS X 10.4 revision (Tiger). According to the rumor site:

Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger will include tighter integration with Apple's internet services and sport a refreshed Finder interface, according to reports that cannot be positively confirmed, but are believed to reflect accurate information on the latest builds of the OS.


New features detailed include faster iDisk performance, and updated Finder and Mac OS X interface. The new version of Mac OS X will be previewed at WWDC in June.

[Windowlicker]

Well that wasn't too much of information.. wonder how they'll alternate the interface this time the changes from jaguar to panther were good in my opinion.

BTW. MY FIRST FIRST POST!!! WOOOOOT! :D :D :p

[michaelrjohnson]

well, so far, it's a bust. i know, i know, this is unconfirmed tentative prerelease rumor info on a product still in the early stages of development... BUT I don't use .Mac, so there had better be more features than enabling us to put URLs in the Finder Sidebar. I mean, come on. :rolleyes:

Aside from that, I wasn't too excited to read the reference to charging MORE than $129 for this update. We'll see what apple pulls out at WWDC. So far, it's a no go.

[LEgregius]

Maybe they will make it better looking. I thought 10.1 was beautiful, needed some tweaks, but beautiful. 10.2 had the tweaks, but also, I think, didn't look quite as nice. Panther is still better than other things I've seen, but I think it's just not as attractive. I didn't have any usablility complaints with Aqua in 10.2. One of the things I miss the most is the semi-transparent window border for non-focused windows. I think that was the best visual clue I've ever seen for making the active window stand out. I also liked the big, bulby window border buttons. They had a lot more character than the recessed ones in panther.
<p>
I certainly hope Tiger isn't even flatter and less striped. I may have to start themeing.

[gerrycurl]

I heard on some rumor website that Apple has ported some of .NET to OS X. This will
mean .NET run time libraries and C# for Xcode. This makes sense to happen for OS X
because eventually, MS Office will be all based on the .NET run time libraries. Not
exactly exciting, but .NET is a rather nice architecture, Longhorn is supposed to be
a huge derivative of the .NET framework, this will definitely push Apple to beat MS's
arse again by the oneuppance Jobs.

Anyway, I agree with the first poster--so far Tiger sounds boring!! SNORE.......

[sinisterdesign]

...wonder how they'll alternate the interface this time the changes from jaguar to panther were good in my opinion.

cool tiger stripes.

"tighter integration w/ Apple's internet services"? kinda' smacks of the whole Windows/IE snafu a couple years back. thank god we only have 3% market! no, more .Mac integration is always welcome. i still marvel just HOW easy it is to update/sync/publish stuff on my .mac account.

[machan]

There are a lot of things that I'd like to see improved in Tiger, most notably network browsing needs to work fast and solid like it did in Jaguar again, the iCal icon in the dock should always reflect the proper date, Mail needs an overhaul and added features to make it as useful and easy to customize as Entourage, and while not directly related to Tiger, the iTunes Music Store really needs to allow the ability to search by record label, not just artist, album and genre (I want to see all the Matador or Sub Pop or whatever label's artists on one page dammit).

Of course, there's a hundred other things that would be nice to see...these are just off the top of my head.

[Stella]

THe sooner they replace brushed metal with something attractive, the better.

Aqua of old was very nice.. and then apple go and replace the GUI with the panther monstrousity

Appleinsider claims to have (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=473) some early details from the upcoming Mac OS X 10.4 revision (Tiger). According to the rumor site:



New features detailed include faster iDisk performance, and updated Finder and Mac OS X interface. The new version of Mac OS X will be previewed at WWDC in June.

[soosy]

Kind of a sucky first Tiger rumor... .Mac blah... sidebar I've always disliked (too big, too windows like and top bar shortcuts were just fine thank you)... Interface look/feel to be expected but no details given...

I'm sure Apple has something better up their sleeve than this.

Oh well, good to see a Tiger rumor anyhow.

[iChan]

cool tiger stripes.

"tighter integration w/ Apple's internet services"? kinda' smacks of the whole Windows/IE snafu a couple years back. thank god we only have 3% market! no, more .Mac integration is always welcome. i still marvel just HOW easy it is to update/sync/publish stuff on my .mac account.

i always thought that this would happen as the safari webobjects(i think) framework is so tightly integrated with the OS as it is.

[keysersoze]

Kind of a sucky first Tiger rumor... .

Agreed.

1. I like the current sidebar
2. I don't want to pay MORE than $130 for an update.
3. I could care less about .mac

Oh well, maybe some more details will come to light...right now I see myself sticking with the Panther.

[iChan]

There are a lot of things that I'd like to see improved in Tiger, most notably network browsing needs to work fast and solid like it did in Jaguar again, the iCal icon in the dock should always reflect the proper date, Mail needs an overhaul and added features to make it as useful and easy to customize as Entourage, and while not directly related to Tiger, the iTunes Music Store really needs to allow the ability to search by record label, not just artist, album and genre (I want to see all the Matador or Sub Pop or whatever label's artists on one page dammit).

Of course, there's a hundred other things that would be nice to see...these are just off the top of my head.

something i would love to see it when you press cmd+i on a folder, it would instantaneously show you the size of theall the files combined. i find it ridiculous that we should have to wait and wait for info like that... and many many times, when checking it, then moving a folder, the info does not reflect the changes...

[el_aarono]

What I would like to see in Tiger:

1. Support for multiple Docks

2. Support for multiple desktops

3. Some of the Drag Thing type features

4. Updated Finder sounds good

5. Better .Mac would also be cool.

There are some other things too, but they've slipped my mind just now.

Later,

a.

[jessefoxperry]

and more specific features include 10.4 being "better"

[SilentPanda]

There are a lot of things that I'd like to see improved in Tiger, ...the iCal icon in the dock should always reflect the proper date...

If you just have it launch at startup with the hidden option selected it will launch iCal (displaying the correct date) plus it won't bring iCal up on the screen (although iCal will be running). I don't know if that's what you want but... there it is.

[Knox]

Aside from that, I wasn't too excited to read the reference to charging MORE than $129 for this update.

Bear in mind that they've already said that the release after Tiger will be later than the current 1-year cycle - so adding a bit more for this update, which will last longer, is fine IMO.

Do agree that there's not much exciting in what they've said so far, although it's all a bit vague at the moment.

[machan]

If you just have it launch at startup with the hidden option selected it will launch iCal (displaying the correct date) plus it won't bring iCal up on the screen (although iCal will be running). I don't know if that's what you want but... there it is.

Yeah, I know about that way of doing it but I don't think that should even be necessary. I don't like having to turn iCal on at all just to get the right date, it should have tighter integration with the system to automatically show the correct date all the time. I don't have to load up the Date & Time pref to get my clock to show the correct time, why should I have to start up iCal to show the right date?

[jxyama]

i'm not sure if i like what i'm hearing... tighter integration with .Mac should be considered as a "bonus" features of OS, as far as apple OS development goes. i hope apple doesn't go the way of being "stupid" and start thinking they can double dip in consumer wallets by trying to sell OS and .Mac to everyone.

if OS X's touted features start being dominated by better integration with a fee-based service like .Mac, i personally will start complaining about it. since many apps do move on to running better on the latest OS, i don't think it's fair to say i shouldn't upgrade. i object to having made to feel as if a part of the OS upgrade fee i pay is being re-directed to .Mac development. that's not what i paid for. let .Mac develop from its own revenue source and improve the OS for everyone, regardless of if they subscribe to .Mac or not.

i still object to jaguar's system pref. pane labeled "Internet" - it was useless unless i had a .Mac account. and .Mac isn't even an ISP!

[rnizlek]

Well, isn't Tiger supposed to have native 64 bit support? That should speed things up for those with G5s.

The biggest thing I want to see in 10.4, though, is a solution to the "G5 freeze" problem! Assuming it is a software problem, that is.

I'd buy 10.4 just for that.

I've heard conflicting reports on whether making Tiger 64 bit native would increase it's speed, but I'd be willing to chance it anyway. I have a 64 bit processor, why stay with a 32 bit OS?

[realityisterror]

what happened to all that hullaballo with 10.4 and speech integration?
it was supposed to be almost fully speech controllable...
:confused: :confused:

reality

[JohnStrass]

What I would like to see in Tiger:

1. Support for multiple Docks

2. Support for multiple desktops

3. Some of the Drag Thing type features

4. Updated Finder sounds good

5. Better .Mac would also be cool.

There are some other things too, but they've slipped my mind just now.

Later,

a.

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.

[jxyama]

what happened to all that hullaballo with 10.4 and speech integration?
it was supposed to be almost fully speech controllable...
:confused: :confused:

reality

the speech bit that was in the news/rumors before was about the ability to aid the blind by reading what's on the screen.

we've got a long way to go in terms of having good enough speech recognition to enable speech controls. (which, on its own, has far less usability and applications than many thinks, sort of like tablet PCs. it sounds good (no pun intended) but it's not as useful as many thinks. can you imagine being at work, talking commands to your computer? it's a gimmick, except to aid the handicapped, with no killer applications at this point.)

[darthdrinker]

Hope they finaly fix the distributed object sytem. We'v been trying to get that to work here and we can't....

[cr2sh]

adding a bit more for this update, which will last longer, is fine IMO.

Well it's not in mine... didn't I just spend $130 for an OS? Then apple doesn't have the decency to allows us to update our copies to iLife '04... oh, and then they plan on introducing Tiger and charge more for it?

I'm sorry, but its crap.

[Abstract]

I don't really notice the GUI differences between Jaguar and Panther. When they mention GUI changes as a feature, I wonder if they mean a significant change?
Maybe resizing windows won't appear so choppy that any time someone uses my computer and resizes a window, they ask me why my computer is running so slowly/badly! "I can resize windows instantly on Windows XP! How can something so simple be so bad on the Mac?" I like to defend Macs from criticism whenever I can, but I really can't argue the point. :rolleyes:

Also, I hope they just throw out the Finder and provide something better. Its better than it was in Jaguar, but its still pretty bad. I wouldn't pay $129 for a simple change, but an overhaul would be good. Windows Explorer has Finder beat in a few ways.

[Veldek]

Well, isn't Tiger supposed to have native 64 bit support? That should speed things up for those with G5s.

The biggest thing I want to see in 10.4, though, is a solution to the "G5 freeze" problem! Assuming it is a software problem, that is.

I'd buy 10.4 just for that.

I've heard conflicting reports on whether making Tiger 64 bit native would increase it's speed, but I'd be willing to chance it anyway. I have a 64 bit processor, why stay with a 32 bit OS?

AFAIK, there wasn't any info about this, but most opinions were that Tiger won't be a 64bit OS, at least not completely.

[jxyama]

Also, I hope they just throw out the Finder and provide something better. Its better than it was in Jaguar, but its still pretty bad. I wouldn't pay $129 for a simple change, but an overhaul would be good. Windows Explorer has Finder beat in a few ways.

i agree, i hope apple will make up its mind about the Finder. right now, it's stuck between being a file browser (e.g. windows explorer) and a symbolic representation of files/folders (e.g. OS 9 style Finder).

an example is this: when you change the view (between icon/list/column) and press "back" on the Finder, it goes back to the previous view style. this is useless. "back" should move up a level in the current view, if the Finder is meant to be a browser or shouldn't exist at all if it's a symbolic representation of files/folders.

it's quite frustrating sometime.

[edesignuk]

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.
If your wife would remember to log off this would not be a problem :rolleyes:

[AidenShaw]

Well, isn't Tiger supposed to have native 64 bit support? That should speed things up for those with G5s.

It's extremely unlikely that 10.4 will have native 64-bit support - it won't allow processes to use more than 4 GiB of virtual memory.

Apple has said nothing to its developer community about how one would build 64-bit applications. Describing the 64-bit APIs and providing 64-bit tools to the developers normally precedes the actual release of a 64-bit O/S by a year or more.

Perhaps at the WWDC Apple will begin to describe its roadmap for moving OS X to true 64-bit - but it won't be delivered in 10.4.

What Apple will probably do in 10.4 is to recompile more of the 32-bit O/S with the (32-bit) G5 optimizations enabled. It might also recompile a few things to take advantage of 64-bit integers if the processor supports them (just like some things have AltiVec and a non-AltiVec code today). This will make OSX faster on a G5, but still use 32-bit memory addressing.


I've heard conflicting reports on whether making Tiger 64 bit native would increase it's speed, but I'd be willing to chance it anyway. I have a 64 bit processor, why stay with a 32 bit OS?

Do you have individual applications that need more than 4 GiB to run? Have these applications been ported to 64-bit OSX? Do you have more than 4 GiB of RAM in your system?

If the answer to any of these questions is no, stick with a 32-bit O/S....

[jxyama]

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.

expanding on edesignuk's comment...

"you" may want to shut down the computer but others may not. that's why you need an admin override to shut down the computer...

i'm not sure if it would be good for anyone to come by and shut down the computer. this is not a bug. i can see the annoyance but it's more of a security feature.

[ProfSBrown]

Maybe Tiger will take advantage of Apple's recent translucency patent? The one where translucency changed depending on things like the window contents updating and recieving user input. That sounded like it had potential!

[AidenShaw]

I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.


I use the switch on the power strip for this....

[JohnnyFirpo]

what happened to all that hullaballo with 10.4 and speech integration?
it was supposed to be almost fully speech controllable...
:confused: :confused:

reality

Back in 1994, the Quadra 840AV was speech controllable. I know it was not perfect, just for the record.

[joemama]

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.


Yes!!! Thank you!!...Such a PAIN in the school setting...

[dashiel]

i wonder if the tiger will use gcc3.3 or the new IBM xl/xlc compilers that were written specifically for the G5 (well okay the 970)?

from what i've read xl/xlc code shows a 30-50% increase in performance over gcc. it should also moot the intel crowd moaning about apple using gcc compilers when benching the G5 against the P4.

[Sebas00]

since, those are not enought for us to upgrade, we will have to wait for the big supprise!
Maybe Xcode is intergrated and all the other Unix apps becomes available.
or
Instead of attacking adobe, I think apple should start their own Virtual PC with better intergration. :D :rolleyes:
ps::( .mac features should be upgradable regardless of OSX version. So for me that's no new feature. I think for the price you pay for .mac, ishould include at least 500mb of storage.

[ClimbingTheLog]

Well it's not in mine... didn't I just spend $130 for an OS? Then apple doesn't have the decency to allows us to update our copies to iLife '04... oh, and then they plan on introducing Tiger and charge more for it? I'm sorry, but its crap.

What's that, you don't want your security updates?

:eek: :maniacal laughter:

[qubex]

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.
Go to the terminal and run the following command:
"sudo halt now" (no quotermarks).

That'll stop your system dead in its tracks and bring it down cleanly. A "one-line Unix wonder", if you will. Warning: you nor any other logged in users will get a chance to save any outstanding work. The system just kills all applications, and shuts itself down. It doesn't even bother you with FileVault's "space recovery" procedure.

[ClimbingTheLog]

Apple has said nothing to its developer community about how one would build 64-bit applications. Describing the 64-bit APIs and providing 64-bit tools to the developers normally precedes the actual release of a 64-bit O/S by a year or more.

Yeah, if only Apple was so open. The only example I can think of that follows that pattern was VMX, and that came from motorola.

They like to surprise everyone, including developers. It's pretty childish, but look at WWDC - 80 out of 200 sessions are still unannounced. (Well, GOL-LY-GEE, it must be sumptin' great if Apple's doin' it - sher I'll give 'em $1300 to learn about, well, gosh, I don't know).

[SiliconAddict]

I use the switch on the power strip for this....

BAD IDEA.....Windows OS X. Doesn't matter. Modern OSs handled unexpected loss of power better then any previous OS but doing so still leaves the chance open for file corruption.

[ClimbingTheLog]

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.

What does XP do, just discard all unsaved changes without asking? OSX still gives you that as an option, if you're an admin. You wouldn't want a dataloss behavior to be the default.

[ryanw]

Agreed.

1. I like the current sidebar
2. I don't want to pay MORE than $130 for an update.
3. I could care less about .mac

Oh well, maybe some more details will come to light...right now I see myself sticking with the Panther.

Maybe they'll include a .mac subscription with the $129 update? Yeah right..

[ClimbingTheLog]

something i would love to see it when you press cmd+i on a folder, it would instantaneously show you the size of theall the files combined. i find it ridiculous that we should have to wait and wait for info like that... and many many times, when checking it, then moving a folder, the info does not reflect the changes...

If Tiger gets the metadata filesystem this could happen. OSX simply doesn't have the plumbing to do this right yet.

[SiliconAddict]

look at WWDC - 80 out of 200 sessions are still unannounced. (Well, GOL-LY-GEE, it must be sumptin' great if Apple's doin' it - sher I'll give 'em $1300 to learn about, well, gosh, I don't know).


Ya know this kind of stunt has to really piss off developers. Who the hell doesn't announce their complete lineup at least a couple months in advance of a conf of any type.

This Apple cloak and dagger crap is wearing thin. I mean really would they be giving away the family secrets if a session was labeled Coding for OS X Tiger - 64-bit APIs and Microsoft knew about it 3 months in advance?

Oh my god! NOOOOOOOOO! :rolleyes:

[Spades]

I heard on some rumor website that Apple has ported some of .NET to OS X. This will
mean .NET run time libraries and C# for Xcode. This makes sense to happen for OS X
because eventually, MS Office will be all based on the .NET run time libraries. Not
exactly exciting, but .NET is a rather nice architecture, Longhorn is supposed to be
a huge derivative of the .NET framework, this will definitely push Apple to beat MS's
arse again by the oneuppance Jobs.


Mono, an open source implementation of the .NET framework, supposedly works on OS X. I tried it a few weeks ago, and it sort of worked. When I tried to run or compile apps that used gtk#, they kept complaining they couldn't find things in the GAC. I'm sure it was something I was doing wrong. So anyways, .NET for OS X is there. Apple might want to add a Cocoa interface so people can make applications with native widgets and use other unique parts of Cocoa, but for the most part, they don't have anything to do.

I don't think Jobs needs to one-up this at all. It's a Microsoft product. It's pretty much a given they copied from Apple anyways. After all, isn't Cocoa/NeXTStep/OpenStep the original object oriented application framework? :p

[0 and A ai]

I'm expecting alot of major interface changes because apple won't have a major update for a while after ths one.

[AoWolf]

an example is this: when you change the view (between icon/list/column) and press "back" on the Finder, it goes back to the previous view style. this is useless. "back" should move up a level in the current view, if the Finder is meant to be a browser or shouldn't exist at all if it's a symbolic representation of files/folders.

it's quite frustrating sometime.

I Hate that!

[lem0nayde]

That report was so silly and vague. I can't believe it got front page.

I can give you an inside tip too:

My uncomfirmed sources tell me that Apple will be changing several things in OS X 10.4, codenamed "Tiger". Amongst the changes will be improvements, user interface changes, changes to the Finder, things that go faster, things that look different, different packaging, some new features, something 3D and most exciting of all - some changes to the operating system. There will also be support for new things.

Yay. Now I am an Apple Insider!

[impierced]

1. Trash on the desktop and out of the dock.
2. Apple menu that I can customize.

That's it... I'd pay $129 for just that.

[robbieduncan]

i wonder if the tiger will use gcc3.3 or the new IBM xl/xlc compilers that were written specifically for the G5 (well okay the 970)?

from what i've read xl/xlc code shows a 30-50% increase in performance over gcc. it should also moot the intel crowd moaning about apple using gcc compilers when benching the G5 against the P4.

I think Panther already uses gcc 3.3 (well as long as you have a recent version of XCode). Check it out here (http://developer.apple.com/tools/xcode/)

[AidenShaw]

BAD IDEA.....Windows [or] OS X. Doesn't matter. Modern OSs handled unexpected loss of power better then any previous OS but doing so still leaves the chance open for file corruption.


We had off and on power problems in our building last year.

I probably had about 20 times when the lab lost power, dropping a couple of hundred Linux and Windows systems each time.

I lost a handful of power supplies due these events, but no filesystems.

The journaling in NTFS and ext3 is pretty remarkable - I don't think twice about telneting into a power strip and dropping the power to a rack of systems.

Of course, you'll probably lose any unsaved *application* data unless the application is also journaling....

[liveoak97]

The Tiger features are much more exciting than better .Mac integration and a new sidebar. The builds that I saw in late January had vertical dock integration (sort of a dock within a dock) that would slide out. In other words, all of your photo applications could be represented in the main dock by one icon and when you selected that icon, another dock would slide out, perpendicular from it. I was aware that there may be 3rd party applications that do something similiar, but this was really slick. I also saw some really stunning Quartz Extreme effects that are somewhat similar to the "Looking Glass" project that Sun Microsystems demoed a while back. They were not entirely stable (nor were they fast) when I saw them. But I expect Apple has improved the code greatly in the many months since. The depth provided by this effect will advance the way you see and access files. The "brushed steel" look in Panther was not evident at that time, though what I saw was rather stripped-down so I would not be able to comment reliably on that.

[javabear90]

1. Trash on the desktop and out of the dock.
2. Apple menu that I can customize.

That's it... I'd pay $129 for just that.

How would you be able to drag things to the trash can????

[dashiel]

I think Panther already uses gcc 3.3 (well as long as you have a recent version of XCode). Check it out here (http://developer.apple.com/tools/xcode/)

sorry should have been more clear. i meant i wonder if they will continue to use gcc3.3 or will switch to the new xl/xlc compilers.

[el_aarono]

The builds that I saw in late January had vertical dock integration (sort of a dock within a dock) that would slide out. In other words, all of your photo applications could be represented in the main dock by one icon and when you selected that icon, another dock would slide out, perpendicular from it.


This sounds pretty cool and is something I could really use. My dock is getting way too big. As I said in my previous post, I would still like multiple docks; the ability to put one on the left side, one on the right, one on the bottom, etc.


Also, it might be nice to be able to label sections of the dock with a specific color code. Just a thought.

later,

a.

[stcanard]

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.

bash> sudo shutdown -h now

[djdarlek]

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.


same problem.. same computer.. different wife... BUT i think it usually warns me that another user is logged in before you shut down and asks for a password to confirm that you really really really do want to shutdown.. add your name/password in the box and it should shut down.. hope this helps save you some time waiting for 10.4

dave

[jxyama]

How would you be able to drag things to the trash can????

trash should be on the desktop, not on the dock, where it moves. with expose, it's easier than ever to clear the entire screen to bring up the desktop...

for the original post about dock on the desktop, try using tinkertools to anchor your dock to one of the corners. this is a decent compromise you may want to try, as i find it unlikely that apple will move the trash out of the dock.

[AidenShaw]

What does XP do, just discard all unsaved changes without asking?


If there are other users logged in - there will be an extra popup warning you that the other users will lose unsaved data if you proceed with the shutdown.

You have to click [OK] to shutdown.

Of course, you can standby (sleep) or hibernate (copy RAM to disk and poweroff) as well.

[sushi]

Back in 1994, the Quadra 840AV was speech controllable. I know it was not perfect, just for the record.
Yes it was.

Had one. Loved it. Just died this year.

Funny thing. When I was programming and made a low level goof, while the mouse and keyboard would not respond, I could still issue a verbal command to the computer to Restart or Shutdown.

Sushi

[MacRy]

I'd like to see an option to search google.co.uk in Safari rather than just google.com. That can be a real pain sometimes.

[xtekdiver]

How can you improve upon perfection? I ask myself this question each time Apple is going to change it's interface, and yet, each time they go far beyond anything I could have imagined. Though given the latest rumors, patent applications, and the upcoming Longhorn promises, I suspect that the interface enhancements are going to include some kind of translucency (see through :o) or perhaps 3D elements, or both!

[ingenious]

If you just have it launch at startup with the hidden option selected it will launch iCal (displaying the correct date) plus it won't bring iCal up on the screen (although iCal will be running). I don't know if that's what you want but... there it is.

Yea, you can find that in Sys Prefs> Accounts> UserName> Startup Items. Make sure to have it start up hidden or otherwise, AFAIK, it will be open.


------


I'm really looking forward to Tiger. I happen to like the sidebar and the brushed metal. but I'm always up for a change. More speed would be nice, along with the iCal thingy, better network integration and browsing. I guess multiple docks would be nice, but I think that might clutter up my screen to much. As for multiple desktops, isn't that possible with FUS? :rolleyes:

[coolfactor]

Maybe they will make it better looking. I thought 10.1 was beautiful, needed some tweaks, but beautiful. 10.2 had the tweaks, but also, I think, didn't look quite as nice. Panther is still better than other things I've seen, but I think it's just not as attractive. I didn't have any usablility complaints with Aqua in 10.2. One of the things I miss the most is the semi-transparent window border for non-focused windows. I think that was the best visual clue I've ever seen for making the active window stand out. I also liked the big, bulby window border buttons. They had a lot more character than the recessed ones in panther.
<p>
I certainly hope Tiger isn't even flatter and less striped. I may have to start themeing.

Wow. You just spelled out the complete opposite of everything I would have said, and lot of other users as well. Panther is the most refined, easy-on-the-eyes interface I've ever used bar none!

[ingenious]

I'd like to have a clock on the login window and to be able to log out from the log in window as well. It's annoying to have to log in to log yourself out (or lesser accounts for that matter.).

[Billicus]

I hope AppleInsider doesn't overdo themselves...

Honestly, an interface tweak and tighter integration with .Mac... That's it? :rolleyes:

[jxyama]

As for multiple desktops, isn't that possible with FUS? :rolleyes:

no, because different accounts will have different priviledges...

a document created by A will not be modifiable or even viewable by B. that's not exactly multiple desktop.

the fact FUS is so similar to multiple desktop in function/looks begs the question why apple hasn't included with multiple desktop already, not the other way around.

[MrToast]

Hi everyone!

It's time for Mr. Toast's Prophecy Post!

Come WWDC, Mr. Jobs (a.k.a. God) will come up on stage and talk about how Tiger has lots on new features blah blah blah and how it will be an entirely 64 bit OS.

"And, of course, you'll need a 64 bit computer to run a 64 bit OS. Introducing the PowerBook G5!"

Amen.

MrToast

[michaelrjohnson]

Hi everyone!

It's time for Mr. Toast's Prophecy Post!

Come WWDC, Mr. Jobs (a.k.a. God) will come up on stage and talk about how Tiger has lots on new features blah blah blah and how it will be an entirely 64 bit OS.

"And, of course, you'll need a 64 bit computer to run a 64 bit OS. Introducing the PowerBook G5!"

Amen.

MrToast

i'm thinking no.

[Windowlicker]

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes.

i think a good way to solve this would be a window that appears if someone else's logged (if the account has apps open) asking the users password. when entering it (or them in case there's more accounts open) the computer would shut down just like if you'd have entered all the accounts and logged them off.

of course another possibility would be that the adminstrator could shut down even if someone had processes going on in their accounts.

[ingenious]

Well, isn't Tiger supposed to have native 64 bit support? That should speed things up for those with G5s.

The biggest thing I want to see in 10.4, though, is a solution to the "G5 freeze" problem! Assuming it is a software problem, that is.

I'd buy 10.4 just for that.

I've heard conflicting reports on whether making Tiger 64 bit native would increase it's speed, but I'd be willing to chance it anyway. I have a 64 bit processor, why stay with a 32 bit OS?


There's just about zero chance that Tiger will be 64bit native. Think about all the hardware that would then be deemed "legacy," even if it was purchased, say a week ago?! With the G4 being 32bit and still being sold and in most all of the recently sold machines, Apple couldn't make Tiger 64bit native. There'd have to be some sort of 32bit emulation OS to run Tiger. That, IMHO, would slow things down, not speed them up. Yes, we'll see 64bit native OSs in the future, but not with Tiger.

[ingenious]

i'm thinking no.


I'm agreeing. Come on, people! We're not ready for a 64bit native OS! Oh, and by the way, Steve Jobs is just a great man.

[boomtopper]

I'd like to see an option to search google.co.uk in Safari rather than just google.com. That can be a real pain sometimes.
i totally agree with you on that MacRy.
I hope apple tweak the dock a little bit. Don't get me wrong the dock is great for somethings but sometimes i find it a annoyance.
I think apple will also use the brushed metal appearance even more in this release because at the mo it seems like the mac os is transitioning from the pin stripe look to the brushed metal appearance. I actually like the brushed metal appearance.

[enscjeff]

Anyone have a feeling about this? With new Toshiba drives are on the way home on iPod would be a great feature to add. It would certainly push me into buying a new iPod!

[stcanard]

As for multiple desktops, isn't that possible with FUS? :rolleyes:

Well, using FUS for that is really kind of a hack, but wsmanager (http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/) does it very well, and is a free dowload, so I don't see that as a killer app for Tiger.

[mrsebastian]

gimmie, gimmie, gimmie with my updated g5 please :D

[michaelrjohnson]

gimmie, gimmie, gimmie with my updated g5 please :D

not that this is very relevant to the topic of this thread, but apple *did* promise 3.0GHz G5's within a year, and they were announced at last years WWDC... So i'd almost say that updated G5's are a gimme.

[AmigoMac]

That would be kick ass, about that thing with multiple dock, yeah! so you can organize your apps according to its function... actually what I want to pay 129$ for is a kind of app manager like F10 launcher, something you could handle with the mouse/keyboard, I thought panther would come with that and didn't buy the F10 program, now I took a view again at it and althought you can manage the apps, is still far away from the easy of use style...I hope to see Tiger by October, right now I will take 99EUR for my second .mac year... :) ... Come'on steve, do not forget the appleworks update! (I know, offtopic, but I hope apple will read this)

[Veldek]

I'd like to see an option to search google.co.uk in Safari rather than just google.com. That can be a real pain sometimes.

There's an app called Safari Enhancer. It lets you change the search engine being used by Safari.

www.lordofthecows.com/safari_enhancer.php

[Windowlicker]

I'd like to have a clock on the login window and to be able to log out from the log in window as well. It's annoying to have to log in to log yourself out (or lesser accounts for that matter.).

you said it! i've thought about this logout thing a couple of times, but I never remember to report it anywhere :) that clock idea isn't any bad either.. also a screensaver on the login window would be ok, though not a must-have option.

[&RU]

This .mac integration could be interesting, but it seems like very few have accounts -- including me. If apple offered a 'good' 'better' 'best' scenario for .mac, with the 'best' option topping out at $99US -- I could be convinced to at least use the portion of features that are integrated into Tiger.

The upgrade from Jaguar to Panther was worth every cent -- even though it broke some of my software. But I think everyone will agree with me when I say that there had better be some darn good features if they plan to charge more!

[danman]

From a user perspective (not a developer one) there are some very simple things I want, and I bet a good few others.

Apple should concentrate on delivering on the detail this time around, rather than headline features:

1: Faster finder updating - new files, and changes to files should appear straight away f.f.s.!

2: Split off that 'preview' thread, so that when you start previewing a 1gig .avi file, you can actually still carry on using the finder, not sit staring at the beachball for 2 minutes.

3: SPEED - we can always use more speed. Don't know what the plans are for Apple, but new compiler technology from IBM can offer solid speed increases in the baseline OS code that is compatible with Apples use of GCC in XCode.

4: Better Bluetooth services, that people like Sailing Cliker, and Romeo can use to develop their products further.

5: Improved UI - Flattening the buttons and scrollbars in the same way the titlebar buttons have been flattened/ recessed would make for a cleaner interface. - Also, the whole UI should be tightened up a la the Pro line of products from Apple - these are so much more space efficient and softer on the eyes.

6: Do some serious work with Macromedia on the speed of the Flash Player for Mac - I never liked flash much, but we manage a $1million dollar digital marketing budget for our client and deliver them a Flash based site. God-damn it's slow when compared to the Wintel player.

7: Sort out the bloomin Network browsing - makes absolutely no sense to anyone pro or consumer alike.

8: Font management still sucks - ever tried booting up with 12,000 fonts installed?


etc
etc
etc
:-)

[Lepton]

Home on iDisk!

[mdriftmeyer]

Apple has its own .NET called PDO (Portable Distributed Objects) which is really targeted at the Enterprise and is CORBA compliant. My guess is if they do update it to interface with .NET via SOAP Web Services, include C# language runtime within XCode, than either they are adding to the Mono project or will include C# hooks into GCC that have Objective-C Wrappers ala ObjC#.

I heard on some rumor website that Apple has ported some of .NET to OS X. This will
mean .NET run time libraries and C# for Xcode. This makes sense to happen for OS X
because eventually, MS Office will be all based on the .NET run time libraries. Not
exactly exciting, but .NET is a rather nice architecture, Longhorn is supposed to be
a huge derivative of the .NET framework, this will definitely push Apple to beat MS's
arse again by the oneuppance Jobs.

Anyway, I agree with the first poster--so far Tiger sounds boring!! SNORE.......

[SLAPSHOTW]

I use the switch on the power strip for this....

Aiden-

This is a very bad move. Not only for software, but your hardware could become extremely damaged by this.

-Matt

[SiliconAddict]

Anyone have a feeling about this? With new Toshiba drives are on the way home on iPod would be a great feature to add. It would certainly push me into buying a new iPod!


Yes and no. Apple would have to make damn sure that there is some form of replication that allows you to have a backup of your home folder on your home computer. (Someone had mentioned this yesterday in the Tosh 60GB thread.) Otherwise people would be idiots to use this feature. Go to an iPod enthusiast site and check the forums. Count the number of failed hard. Would you really want to take the chance of losing everything in your home folder?
But as I said before if Apple implements some backup procedures to make sure that the chance of losing that info is minimal then more power to em.

[SiliconAddict]

Home on iDisk!

Hmm that would be freaking cool. Slow as heck but cool.

[eric_n_dfw]

If your wife would remember to log off this would not be a problem :rolleyes:If his wife had an unsaved document open and it didn't prompt you - he'd have a bigger problem!

[darthdrinker]

Well it's not in mine... didn't I just spend $130 for an OS? Then apple doesn't have the decency to allows us to update our copies to iLife '04... oh, and then they plan on introducing Tiger and charge more for it?

I'm sorry, but its crap.

Right on brother!
I work at a high securety department of a large company and we haven't even taken 10.3 into production yet. What is going on with these guy's at apple. Don't they listen to end users anymore. Apple is becoming more and more like microsoft. Except without the large mindless userbase.....

[&RU]

More SPEED please! Faster video drivers even?

As for fonts, make Font Book better or give us the option to dis-comingle it so that we can use professional font managers.

[nsb3000]

Here is what I am looking for in 10.4:

Fix the finder: After four year sof OS X, the finder is sadly, an embarrassingly large blemish on a great operating system. Besides missing many features which us prosumers have been requesting for years (Smart Folders ala iTunes, metadata file system) and bugs that make it quite unusable at times (lack of multithreading, file sharing crashes), Apple needs to sit down and decide what the finder is, and what it is not. Is it going to be a Windows Explorer clone with ever increasing but pointless Internet integration, or is it going to be a simple, elegant, stable way to access and manipulate the file system? Since I can’t put it better my self, I suggest everyone check out John Siracusa’s criticisms and solutions (http://arstechnica.com/paedia/f/finder/finder-1.html) for the finder. This should be priority #1 for Apple.


Fix the Dock: While I think the current dock has lots of great elements, but it still uses screen real estate pretty inefficiently , and does not come together in a cohesive way for me. I am not sure what the exact solution is, but something that allows have groups of programs, or some icons smaller than others, so I can fit what I use regularly in the dock.


Update Mail and Safari: These are two the of most important applications on the Mac Platform. Mail is a good program, but it slows to a crawl on my iBook 500. I don’t know what is going on behind the scenes, but this is just an email program people! Eudora, and Entourage fly by in comparison, though are of course greatly lacking in the usability department. Safari, is perfectly fast enough, but quite lacking in advanced features. Why can’t I choose which search engine the google search box searches, for example?


More quartz extreme type effects: Now we know the plumbing is there, so to speak, so I expect nothing less than Apple to take this to the next level. I am kind of envisioning a Looking glass type interface where every window is basically an object that I can manipulate on the fly. I am sure apple has other things up there sleeves well.


Miscellaneous changes: Make the Apple Menu customizable, ala OS 9. Let users put the trash where they want. Bring real cross platform file sharing to the finder (SMB, FTP, and stable! ) . Revamp disk first aid to be an advanced tool like Disk Warrior is. Include Apple Backup utility to non .Mac users. A Terminal, VNC type sever and client built in. Bring support for more Printers and Scanners. Add a tool for removing software such as the “Add/Remove programs” control panel in Windows. And there are more, Many more, if I had time to write them.

[drewel]

If I buy a PB in July- will it have Tiger installed?

Thing is, can't buy it before then b/c I am in Asia & no where near a Mac now. :eek:

Or should I hold off on buying until Tiger released (assumming release right around the corner)?

[Veldek]

If I buy a PB in July- will it have Tiger installed?

Thing is, can't buy it before then b/c I am in Asia & no where near a Mac now. :eek:

Or should I hold off on buying until Tiger released (assumming release right around the corner)?

At WWDC Tiger is only previewed. It probably won't be out before October at least, but it could possibly take even longer (perhaps January 2005?)

[Stella]

No, it won't have Tiger installed...
SJ will just be talking about Tiger... it won't be released until later in the year.

If I buy a PB in July- will it have Tiger installed?

Thing is, can't buy it before then b/c I am in Asia & no where near a Mac now. :eek:

Or should I hold off on buying until Tiger released (assumming release right around the corner)?

[animemaster]

well, so far, it's a bust. i know, i know, this is unconfirmed tentative prerelease rumor info on a product still in the early stages of development... BUT I don't use .Mac, so there had better be more features than enabling us to put URLs in the Finder Sidebar. I mean, come on. :rolleyes:

Aside from that, I wasn't too excited to read the reference to charging MORE than $129 for this update. We'll see what apple pulls out at WWDC. So far, it's a no go.


Just to make things clear, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, etc, are NOT upgrades of the sort. You DON'T have to upgrade or even update to the new version. No one is forcing you, and 99% of the software for Mac OS X runs on 10.0. These are more technically full versions of the operating system. You can go straight from mac os 9 to 10.4 when it comes out. You can do the same from 10.2 or .3. So, people who think that you're buying a small update, you're not. It's a full fledged operating system.

[PlaceofDis]

i would hope for multiple desktops as well, increased speed, ect i want a lot of new features! but ill let apple surprize me with them first LOL

for those of you craving muplitple desktops now there is Desktop Manager (http://wsmanager.sourceforge.net/) it works good for me for now at least

[crazedbytheheat]

That would be kick ass, about that thing with multiple dock, yeah! so you can organize your apps according to its function... actually what I want to pay 129$ for is a kind of app manager like F10 launcher, something you could handle with the mouse/keyboard, I thought panther would come with that and didn't buy the F10 program, now I took a view again at it and althought you can manage the apps, is still far away from the easy of use style...I hope to see Tiger by October, right now I will take 99EUR for my second .mac year... :) ... Come'on steve, do not forget the appleworks update! (I know, offtopic, but I hope apple will read this)

F10 is the best application launcher I've ever used. If you don't own it, buy it - you won't be sorry. My doc only has a few items I use absolutely every day. Finding apps and files is a snap. I wish it were a bit easier to maintain, though.

Other things I'd like to see:

- Shared iCal calendars without .mac on the local network (and not just everyone using the same calendar location).
- Virtual folders in Finder - i.e. let me group files hierarchically and also create virtual folders of related files. You can do this with aliases, but managing them is a pain. I'd also like "Smart Folders" that can use the color tag thingies or some other metadata (but hide the goofy colors).
- Fix the network stuff in Finder. It basically works, but still isn't great.
- Multi-user .mac accounts. I use .mac, but don't really want to cough up the extra dough to get a second account for my wife. iDisk is pretty cool if you have multiple computers and travel. iCal online would be pretty cool too.

I hope the family pack stays at $200. With three computers that's a pretty good deal.

[sinisterdesign]

an example is this: when you change the view (between icon/list/column) and press "back" on the Finder, it goes back to the previous view style. this is useless. "back" should move up a level in the current view, if the Finder is meant to be a browser or shouldn't exist at all if it's a symbolic representation of files/folders.

it's quite frustrating sometime.

exactly. i LOVE the columns view, use it 95% of the time (except when i need to sort by date modified or something). but it's really annoying when i can't back up past my home folder. that's not the top level of the computer, now is it? let me back up 'til i can't back no more!

and for the person that was saying that the left finder toolbar is too large in panther, i agree. have you ever resized it to just the icons? i like that view much better.

[Awimoway]

well, so far, it's a bust. i know, i know, this is unconfirmed tentative prerelease rumor info on a product still in the early stages of development... BUT I don't use .Mac, so there had better be more features than enabling us to put URLs in the Finder Sidebar. I mean, come on. :rolleyes:

Aside from that, I wasn't too excited to read the reference to charging MORE than $129 for this update. We'll see what apple pulls out at WWDC. So far, it's a no go.


I'm not going to rush to any judgments. Last year we were all getting ourselves moist over early rumors of Piles. I'm not holding my breath that any of this vague rumor is particularly accurate.

[davecuse]

There have been a few posts about Speech Recognition being part of Tiger, this is not what they are adding. The new feature is called Spoken Interface, it would allow low-vision and blind users to navigate through the desktop and have verbal recognition of what they are opening, I would assume it would read back email and webpages as well. I personally think that this is a great feature. Does anyone know if Safari support Aural CSS standards?

[macridah]

good news for me, i'm a .Mac subscriber. Bad news: might be more expensive than the panther upgrade! :mad:

We will soon see by the end of the month ... the truth will be told.

[soosy]

The Tiger features are much more exciting than better .Mac integration and a new sidebar. The builds that I saw in late January had vertical dock integration (sort of a dock within a dock) that would slide out. In other words, all of your photo applications could be represented in the main dock by one icon and when you selected that icon, another dock would slide out, perpendicular from it. I was aware that there may be 3rd party applications that do something similiar, but this was really slick. I also saw some really stunning Quartz Extreme effects that are somewhat similar to the "Looking Glass" project that Sun Microsystems demoed a while back. They were not entirely stable (nor were they fast) when I saw them. But I expect Apple has improved the code greatly in the many months since. The depth provided by this effect will advance the way you see and access files. The "brushed steel" look in Panther was not evident at that time, though what I saw was rather stripped-down so I would not be able to comment reliably on that.

Now that's a rumor! Dock does need some rethinking/new features. Quartz Extreme effects ala Exposé would be very welcome (I'm still pretty amazed how smooth Exposé is... and useful). I'm old school and would be happy for brushed metal to begone. Apple should go all the way to themes, they could even feature 10.1 look, 10.2 look, 10.3 look as separate themes...

[SiliconAddict]

I haven't noticed anyone complain about the rumored release in October. Obviously this is pure rumor at this point but I think it would be bad news for Apple to do another 1 year release. I honestly don't believe that Apple can do any major revamps to the OS in a single year timeframe. Like it or not Longhorn, great I've got cow on the brain, is going to be out in a year and a half. Apple can't afford to hold back on doing some major housecleaning in OS X. People have made some requests of Apple on this thread and they are all legit requests. People also are constantly following this pattern whenever Apple releases a .x.x release:

Oh I hope they fix X, or I hope Y is now working right.

This smacks of an OS that needs some major fine-tuning and, again IMHO, that can't be done in a year if they are looking to add feature on top of that. I know it would be painful to some Mac users since you've gotten spoiled on yearly updates, but I truly believe that Apple needs to sit down and really focus on getting OS X to a point where there are no external flaws. (e.g. something wonky happens in the GUI or the finder hangs because its not happy with a networked drive or other various external issues.) I know for a fact that MS Windows has flaws that are not so obvious. Just go through their technet website and you can find thousands of tech articles on problems, issues, and other misc crap that happens in Windows but the key is that these failures occur on a much lower functionality level. The GUI in Windows is pretty much rock solid. An example would be MS Lookout. (MS Outlook for those who have never used Outlook.) There is a known issue with Outlook XP and importing outlook pst data files. I can't remember the exact issue but its there. This is not such an obvious error in that its not affecting the overall user experience by dinking up the use of the app or GUI.
Also I think there is one thing that Windows does do better then OS X and this is recover from the previously mentioned weird stuff in the GUI. I've seen some of the weirdest most bizarre things happen with network connectivity in Windows and in most cases (Note: MOST.) the OS recovers from that fumble pretty dang successfully. Over the last year on this board I've gotten the impression that when OS X is operating right its as solid as a rock coated in solid steel. But when it decides to be a pain in the *** it can be a one in a spectacular manner. I think there too Apple needs to tweak their OS. Make it recover from errors more gracefully. OS X is an OS designed to be easy. It should also recover easily and in a timely manner. (No 5 minute beach ball crap.)

I don't know. Maybe not. That's just the way I see it. Your mileage may very on the opinion. *shrugs*

[morespce54]

That report was so silly and vague. I can't believe it got front page.

I can give you an inside tip too:

My uncomfirmed sources tell me that Apple will be changing several things in OS X 10.4, codenamed "Tiger". Amongst the changes will be improvements, user interface changes, changes to the Finder, things that go faster, things that look different, different packaging, some new features, something 3D and most exciting of all - some changes to the operating system. There will also be support for new things.

Yay. Now I am an Apple Insider!


Oh geez! Amazing !!!! I can't wait to see this! ;) :D

[Windowlicker]

blablabla *loads of good points* bla bla bla...

OS X is an OS designed to be easy. It should also recover easily and in a timely manner. (No 5 minute beach ball crap.)

I'm totally with you here. the state of osx now is really that I don't really need much anything more of it. now if they just made it some more faster and some more bugfree etc i'd be so happy i'd crap my pants :) I mean, i already am very satisfied with the OS, but still I get those beach ball things and such.

also there's one big thing they could improve (though i don't know if it's possible): i have selected to sleep the HDs when ever possible -- this because I don't want them to crash in a couple of years. now, almost every time a sleeping HD wakes up when using an app (heck it's even quite usual the app isn't doing any HD intensive stuff ... oh well there's loads of background processes so that must explain it) I get a beachball and I have to wait for a while.

The same thing happens when I'm accessing a HD. This is normal, I know, but if they could add some kind of a buffer that would give the HD time for say 10sec to wake up -- and thus not giving the lovely colourful ball -- and I could just go on with my work I'd be glad.

hope i didn't make it sound too complicated ;))

[encro]

This article said absolutely SFA.

The PowerPC architecture is a 64-bit architecture with a 32-bit subset. Under most circumstances rewriting OS X for 64bit will very likely result in almost zero improvement over what you already have with 10.2. Threading the Finder and optimizing the system to use hypertransport better will be of more benefit in the short to mid term I believe.

[Sayer]

Please, please please get rid of the horizontal stripes in the window backgrounds!

You really don't notice it that much these days due to Panther's (and Jaguar's) more subdued theme, but in certain areas all I see are stripes. Its distracting and looks terrible compared to other OSes.

The "theme" of the Pro Apple apps should be made System wide as a "Pro" optional install.

This "Pro" theme should replace Metal was well, there is simply too much of a difference in how a "Metal" window works vs. an Aqua window i.e. you can drag a Metal window from any unused portion of the content area, there is no defined "header/title bar" area so sheets appear to come from nowhere.

Metal is jarring to see in comparison to the "normal" Aqua/white windows.

Oh and how about giving Carbon developers the same snazzy UI elements that Cocoa has, at the same time Cocoa gets them? This has happened so many times in major releases it is now obviously deliberate. There is no reason at all why a Carbon app's window resize "thumb" has to be a white square other than as an obvious "THIS IS A CARBON APP!" giveaway.

Carbon metal windows look the same as Cocoa metal windows, it is not a technological impossibility to make both Carbon and Cocoa visually consistent.

If Carbon is so "bad" then why bother adding anything new to it at all and just publicly announce it to be the middle-ware that it is currently heading towards via the NeXTies-in-charge anyway?

Key word here: Consistency - something OS X has always lacked from DB to Public Beta to Panther. I don't care about spinning 3D cubes or complex animations for showing a sheet if the overall OS is disjointed in its UI and plays favorites with certain elements over others that are just as useful and viable.

[encro]

i have selected to sleep the HDs when ever possible -- this because I don't want them to crash in a couple of years.


You are actually shortening the life of your HD by doing what you are doing :(

Spin Up... Spin Down... Spin Up... Spin Down...

Your drive will probably fail quicker than a HD that is constantly in motion because of all the extra wear and tear that you are forcing upon it.

[jwhitnah]

THe sooner they replace brushed metal with something attractive, the better.

Aqua of old was very nice.. and then apple go and replace the GUI with the panther monstrousity
Actually, Metal rules!

[jwhitnah]

You are actually shortening the life of your HD by doing what you are doing :(

Spin Up... Spin Down... Spin Up... Spin Down...

Your drive will probably fail quicker than a HD that is constantly in motion because of all the extra wear and tear that you are forcing upon it.

If the computer is only powered on during the time he is using the machine, I agree. If the computer is powered 'on' 24/7, I disagree.

[QCassidy352]

certainly nothing to get excited about... yet. We'll know soon enough. :)

[bathysphere]

i think a good way to solve this would be a window that appears if someone else's logged (if the account has apps open) asking the users password. when entering it (or them in case there's more accounts open) the computer would shut down just like if you'd have entered all the accounts and logged them off.

of course another possibility would be that the adminstrator could shut down even if someone had processes going on in their accounts.

this is exactly how it works right now, i run multiple accounts on my g5 and if i want to shut down or restart my computer and there is another account open, a dialog prompts me for my admin password. i've never had to log into another account to shut down or restart.

Just to make things clear, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, etc, are NOT upgrades of the sort. You DON'T have to upgrade or even update to the new version. No one is forcing you, and 99% of the software for Mac OS X runs on 10.0. These are more technically full versions of the operating system. You can go straight from mac os 9 to 10.4 when it comes out. You can do the same from 10.2 or .3. So, people who think that you're buying a small update, you're not. It's a full fledged operating system.

people should stop saying this. it's stupid.

[mdriftmeyer]

The doc stuff sounds like they are implementing bits of Mecca (Openstep 4.0 RC1) that never saw the light of day (Mecca was a complete rewrite of NeXTSTEP that was severely curtailed by Steve when at NeXT we were changing directions).

I have a copy of Mecca. Lots of ideas in there have yet to surface.



The Tiger features are much more exciting than better .Mac integration and a new sidebar. The builds that I saw in late January had vertical dock integration (sort of a dock within a dock) that would slide out. In other words, all of your photo applications could be represented in the main dock by one icon and when you selected that icon, another dock would slide out, perpendicular from it. I was aware that there may be 3rd party applications that do something similiar, but this was really slick. I also saw some really stunning Quartz Extreme effects that are somewhat similar to the "Looking Glass" project that Sun Microsystems demoed a while back. They were not entirely stable (nor were they fast) when I saw them. But I expect Apple has improved the code greatly in the many months since. The depth provided by this effect will advance the way you see and access files. The "brushed steel" look in Panther was not evident at that time, though what I saw was rather stripped-down so I would not be able to comment reliably on that.

[denm316]

Horrible Rumor...not really "page 1" worthy

I hope Apple does add themes, it would be a cool cutomization feature. Also cant they add back the see-through windows, like when you clikc the top of the window it becomes transparent, I dont want another app to do this, I want it built in

[nmk]

Here is what I am looking for in 10.4:

Fix the finder: After four year sof OS X, the finder is sadly, an embarrassingly large blemish on a great operating system. Besides missing many features which us prosumers have been requesting for years (Smart Folders ala iTunes, metadata file system) and bugs that make it quite unusable at times (lack of multithreading, file sharing crashes), Apple needs to sit down and decide what the finder is, and what it is not. Is it going to be a Windows Explorer clone with ever increasing but pointless Internet integration, or is it going to be a simple, elegant, stable way to access and manipulate the file system? Since I can’t put it better my self, I suggest everyone check out John Siracusa’s criticisms and solutions (http://arstechnica.com/paedia/f/finder/finder-1.html) for the finder. This should be priority #1 for Apple.


An absolutely superb article. This is a must read for anyone that is unhappy with the current state of the Apple finder. The author does a superb job of maintaining the best aspects of a spatial interface finder, while implementing powerful file management technology necessary for the vast amount of storage in todays PC's. I believe that Apple will probably implement some of the technologies mentioned in the article. More specifically, they will probably introduce smart folders (ala iTunes) on an OS wide level. I also believe that the rumored metadata support in Tiger will allow Apple to implement some of the file browser features mentioned in the article. However, I expect the implementation to be clumsy (in comparison to what the author proposes) based on Apples current efforts with the OS X finder. I think the best thing Apple can do currently is hire this guy and put him in a very senior position on the OS X 10.5 Finder development team.

[bathysphere]

also on the theme of, uh, themes, i have to agree with people who mentioned a 'pro' theme based on the pro apps. i would love to see osx look a bit more like dvd studio pro or the other pro apps, it's so much easier to look at, and much more efficient space wise.

[michaelrjohnson]

Just to make things clear, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, etc, are NOT upgrades of the sort. You DON'T have to upgrade or even update to the new version. No one is forcing you, and 99% of the software for Mac OS X runs on 10.0. These are more technically full versions of the operating system. You can go straight from mac os 9 to 10.4 when it comes out. You can do the same from 10.2 or .3. So, people who think that you're buying a small update, you're not. It's a full fledged operating system.


it may be a full fledged OS, but if there arent many major changes since the previous full fledged OS, it's not worth the $... to anyone.

[adamjay]

i'll pay for it as long as i get the same 20% GUI increase as i did with Jaguar to Panther

[legion]

This will make OSX faster on a G5, but still use 32-bit memory addressing.

That should be 48 bit addressing
:p

[legion]

After all, isn't Cocoa/NeXTStep/OpenStep the original object oriented application framework? :p
No. OOP roots are SIMULA, then SmallTalk, then C++, followed by a host of others including Cocoa/Objective C
(Cocoa is based on C and SmallTalk)

[Damek]

3. I could care less about .mac

If you could care less, why don't you?

Me, I couldn't care less about .mac.

Seriously, though, I agree. .Mac would be cool if I had a bunch of Macs and used a Mac at work, but I have to use a PC at work, and only have an iBook. I paid the ~$70 intro price for .Mac when I bought the iBook because it sounded like it might be useful, but frankly, all of the features are not quite worth it for me:

1) Email - I already have a permanent email address (my own domain)

2) hosting - see above; my own domain. Yeah, copying files to the iDisk might be easier, but honestly, I'm just used to FTP, and I know I can do it from anywhere. the iDisk WebDAV stuff is less... ubiquitous... and I'm just not used to the concept of syncing.

3) iDisk - see above re: FTP for hosting. Also, for accessing files from other computers, it's easier to just carry around my iPod with the few files I regularly use than to install the .Mac iDisk util for Windows when I need it. Now if only I could set up iSync to have a certain local folder always synced with one on my iPod, so I don't have to copy files manually & remember which ones I've updated....

4) Virus protection - I installed it, but it seemed like more nuisance than benefit. I mean, it starts up every time I start the computer and wants to check it. I know OS X isn't virus-free, and as its popularity grows it'll probably get more viruses, but at the moment there's no need for my lil' iBook to have a virus checker on it, at least I don't feel there is.

5) Homepage - see above. Also, I'm used to typing my own HTML. And I don't do much of anything on my website anyway. I'm interested in this iBlog tool, though, might make things a little easier. And iPhoto's autogenerated HTML. But those don't need .Mac.

6) Syncing Addressbook & Bookmarks; sharing iCal data. Useless when my iBook is the only Mac I use. No other computer can access this synced data with ease, and I don't really need it to anyway. Far more interested in synching my Calendar, To-Do & Contacts to my iPod and phone...

7) Backup - I think I might miss this, but I haven't actually used it yet. I can always backup my data manually anyway, just fire up Toast Lite and drag my Documents & Pictures folder over & burn a DVD or CD. Not that much more difficult.

8) iCards, training, special downloads - this stuff is nice, but not worth getting an account for. When the main course of the meal is no big excitement, the dessert is irrelevant.

Anyway, I know this is a thread about Tiger, but I wanted to get that off my chest about .Mac.

I can see it being useful in a more Mac-filled world, but for those of us for whom our Mac is a vacation from an otherwise Windows-filled world, and/or who already have our own domains or hosting/email solutions, .Mac isn't really worth it. It's not a bad deal, but not significantly better to warrant relearning how I handle my email & website, and telling my friends & family my new email address and that sort of stuff.

[impierced]

How would you be able to drag things to the trash can????

With a point, click and drag. Same way it was in System 6, System 7, Mac OS 8 and Mac OS 9. Also the same way it is in all versions of Windows.

[Damek]

This sounds pretty cool and is something I could really use. My dock is getting way too big. As I said in my previous post, I would still like multiple docks; the ability to put one on the left side, one on the right, one on the bottom, etc.

The expandable-dock-icons feature sounds cool, but with Quicksilver, I find myself going to the dock less and less anyway... I'm a recent switcher, and with Windows I was always pressing the "Windows" key to open the Start Menu, and then a couple of letters to open the Programs Menu and start whatever application I want. The Mouse is nice, but the keyboard is faster once you get used to it (or at least I prefer to use it). Quicksilver effectively brings 3-4 key application starts to my shiny new iBook, as well as providing a bit more functionality such as opening specific documents without having to navigate to them in the finder, performing Sogudi searches the moment I think of them without having to go open Safari and then enter the seach...

Apple could do worse than to make Quicksilver part of OS X. Actually, scratch that - they could add a smiliar feature but do it half-arsed, like Microsoft usually does, and like Apple did with Sherlock (versus Watson).

[socbyset]

Just to make things clear, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, etc, are NOT upgrades of the sort. You DON'T have to upgrade or even update to the new version. No one is forcing you, and 99% of the software for Mac OS X runs on 10.0.

I am not sure that 99% of os X apps will run on 10.0. i think the figure would be much lower.. I see software that says "requires 10.2" or some such in its requirements farily often..

no, no one is forcing you.. that is true. That doesn't mean that their prices are reasonable. I think that ~$130 per year is a bit much to stay current. (even if they slow down the pace a bit as they are saying.)

[mdriftmeyer]

Regarding Cocoa priority over Carbon.

You aren't grasping this concept yet. Cocoa is the foundation and future direction for the entire System.

The more they phase parts of the OS as built with Cocoa the more they will phase out Carbon.

Please, please please get rid of the horizontal stripes in the window backgrounds!

You really don't notice it that much these days due to Panther's (and Jaguar's) more subdued theme, but in certain areas all I see are stripes. Its distracting and looks terrible compared to other OSes.

The "theme" of the Pro Apple apps should be made System wide as a "Pro" optional install.

This "Pro" theme should replace Metal was well, there is simply too much of a difference in how a "Metal" window works vs. an Aqua window i.e. you can drag a Metal window from any unused portion of the content area, there is no defined "header/title bar" area so sheets appear to come from nowhere.

Metal is jarring to see in comparison to the "normal" Aqua/white windows.

Oh and how about giving Carbon developers the same snazzy UI elements that Cocoa has, at the same time Cocoa gets them? This has happened so many times in major releases it is now obviously deliberate. There is no reason at all why a Carbon app's window resize "thumb" has to be a white square other than as an obvious "THIS IS A CARBON APP!" giveaway.

Carbon metal windows look the same as Cocoa metal windows, it is not a technological impossibility to make both Carbon and Cocoa visually consistent.

If Carbon is so "bad" then why bother adding anything new to it at all and just publicly announce it to be the middle-ware that it is currently heading towards via the NeXTies-in-charge anyway?

Key word here: Consistency - something OS X has always lacked from DB to Public Beta to Panther. I don't care about spinning 3D cubes or complex animations for showing a sheet if the overall OS is disjointed in its UI and plays favorites with certain elements over others that are just as useful and viable.

[Tenniru]

Yeah, there is a good chance that they'll be using the transparent window GUI thing they just copyrighted, as well as hopefully improving Finder's FTP protocol... that would rock so much. I'm also hoping for better Classic (emulating the really old stuff) and maybe an updated Mail that allows reply-to adresses. And we really need Appleworks 7. Whatever it will do.

[mdriftmeyer]

NeXTSTEP/Openstep/ObjC frameworks were being developed concurrent to that of C++.

It was a two dog pony race that then C++ won out, even though ObjC's natural OO extensions with C seemed to more obvious route, but each language has its pros/cons.

No. OOP roots are SIMULA, then SmallTalk, then C++, followed by a host of others including Cocoa/Objective C
(Cocoa is based on C and SmallTalk)

[ClimbingTheLog]

No. OOP roots are SIMULA, then SmallTalk, then C++, followed by a host of others including Cocoa/Objective C
(Cocoa is based on C and SmallTalk)

Objective-C and C++ were largely developed in parallel.

"C with Classes" was started in '79 and became C++ in '82. But it didn't really reach its modern form until '89, first published in '90. Still templates weren't even in there in a standard way and the language wasn't even standardized until '98. It was painful to use in the early 90's when I spent many late nights cursing at Symantec's buggy mac compiler.

Objective-C was started a few years later than C++ but it was largely complete in '86 when Brian Cox published his book on it. NeXT was built on it and it was mature enough to shoulder an OS well before C++. Remember when linux was going to be rewritten in C++, circa '95? (abandoned because it just didn't work)

Today they're both quite mature but have different feels. Objective-C is more like smalltalk, C++ is bigger and more rigid. C++ has more corporate support but can't do dynamic binding like Objective-C can, which makes it really hard to do an OS with it.

Neither are particularly good for applications, IMHO (computers are too fast not to use higher languages for apps), but Apple sort of forces you to use Objective-C for Cocoa.

[jet_silver]

The improvements mooted in the parent aren't anywhere nearly exciting enough to squeeze $129 out of my pocket. What would do it is to make the machine do what I want, to wit:

1) Allow background color changes. My LCD monitor is set to one (1) out of 100 on its brightness control and those stark white windows are still too glare-y. I want them -all- light cyan, not white. Transparency, little pinstripes and pretty moving shapes are no substitute for cutting the glare. I would pay $100 for this feature alone, but I have not found any way to get it without compromising color accuracy.
2) Lose the confirmation popups. If someone makes Buzof for Mac I will be the first in line to get it.
3) Use a separate swap partition. Why anyone would break the *BSD /swap partition idea for a bunch of swapfiles on the boot drive is beyond my comprehension.
4) Make the .mac functionality configurable so I can use -my- domain's host as a .mac analogue. I'm not going to fork over a hundred bucks a year to replicate what my domain's server already does. Otherwise, disappear all the .mac stuff unless and until I get a .mac account.

I haven't had any problems with the Finder yet and it seems fine as a file browser and, uh, finder. Overall I am much happier with the OSX GUI than ever I've been with anything besides the OS/2 Desktop. The changes noted for Tiger are tweaks to things that, for me, don't need tweaking.

[aswitcher]

Here is what I am looking for in 10.4:

More quartz extreme type effects: Now we know the plumbing is there, so to speak, so I expect nothing less than Apple to take this to the next level. I am kind of envisioning a Looking glass type interface where every window is basically an object that I can manipulate on the fly. I am sure apple has other things up there sleeves well.




I really hope they make better use of the graphics card ram. Barefeats indicates that its capped at present, and only yhr graphics card processor has any real impact. That seems like a waste. Sure their might need to be an option somewhere but if you have the ram (ie 128 Meg) then lets see it put more fully to use for every day stuff

[Michael Vance]

Apple needs to adopt the URL style address structure system that Windows uses. Anything else seems quaintly archaic, as if today's users can't read and make sense of a URL, needing instead informationless windows with no indication of their place in the file structure.

[JFreak]

As for fonts, make Font Book better.

yes, please. font performance sucks big time, and activating 1000+ fonts almost kills a powerbook. not acceptable. i hope this will be improved in tiger, because leaving it as it is now would be "microsoftish". apple has to have a vision about font book because it is there, so let's hope they do the same kind of magic they did with iphoto in the v4 compared to v2. much faster.

[JFreak]

8: Font management still sucks - ever tried booting up with 12,000 fonts installed?

oh my god! my powerbook seems to be dying even with one tenth of that... i have found out that installing 500-600 fonts (counting each different font type - normal, italic, bold... - as a different font because it is a different file in most cases) the system is still performing well, however booting up slowly, but more than that is just not acceptable.

12000 fonts? oh my god.

[davecuse]

1 simple request, let me upload to FTP without buying a different program...

[greg252]

I would like to see tight FTP integration in the finder- it's half way there, just finish it!

Also, .Mac integration is nice, but I refuse to use .Mac until it supports PHP and mySQL and allows me to have my own domain name.

[JohnStrass]

Here is what I am looking for in 10.4:

Include Apple Backup utility to non .Mac users.


Amen. I dont have .Mac bacause I still use a (free) dial-up connection. I would REALLY like a solid back-up program . I just bought Danz Retrospect, but I TRUST APPLE more than a 3rd party to make something as important as backup software and thus would pay more for a product from Apple. In fact, that alone (OK, maybe a few iCandy cosmetic finder changes mentioned by others thrown in...) would be worth the anticiapted $129- upgrade fee

[JFreak]

I would like to see tight FTP integration in the finder- it's half way there, just finish it!

Also, .Mac integration is nice, but I refuse to use .Mac until it supports PHP and mySQL and allows me to have my own domain name.

there are perfect 3rd party ftp apps available, there's absolutely no need for apple to make one. go to www.panic.com for example, that's it.

i would like to see customized dotmac and being able to route the dotmac services to my own linux server. the 100MB idisk apple offers is just a big joke while google gives away a gigabyte for free. but apple is the only one that is allowed to sell the easy-to-use dotmac idisk.

dotmac will never allow own domain names. it is not a web hotel. it is for providing some web services that work seamlessly with the os. but the price is just ten times its actual value.

99 dollars for 100MB web space? give me a break.

[Lepton]

there are perfect 3rd party ftp apps available, there's absolutely no need for apple to make one. go to www.panic.com for example, that's it.
[...]
99 dollars for 100MB web space? give me a break.

You complain about the price of .mac but it doesn't bother you they want $25 for that FTP program? If .mac does 4 times what that program does then it shouldn't bother you, right..

[wdlove]

I would like to see the use of 3D. An Apple made backup software would be a great addition. Maybe there were be some further additions to the .Mac offerings.

[JFreak]

You complain about the price of .mac but it doesn't bother you they want $25 for that FTP program? If .mac does 4 times what that program does then it shouldn't bother you, right..

25 dollars for a shareware program is a once-in-a-lifetime cost, but 99 dollars of dotmac only lasts one year. that's a SUBSCRIPTION and should cost ten dollars a year for what value it offers.

edit: yep, you're right, i would buy the dotmac for 99 dollars if it was just one cost and for that price apple would give the dotmac services "forever". but 99 dollars a year? not a chance. 99 dollars a year with all mac osx major upgardes included? that might work, after all apple will not be releasing a major upgrade every year after tiger... but currently, no. ten dollars would be a good price for the current feature set.

[PRØBE]

Don't know if anyone else has suggested this (I admit to only getting half-way through reading all the posts on this thread) but I had an idea about increasing the efficiency of the dock. I've read quite a few posts from people complaining about the screen real estate the dock occupies, and people resorting to 3rd party apps like the handy F10. What i think would work well (and look damn cool) would be the option to turn your dock into a "solid" 3D rectangular block.

This way when you filled up your dock, or it was getting too large, you could switch on the 3D option and rotate the dock to a free side, and so on. This would also enable you to cleanly divide up the various sides according to different categories of apps' eg.pro/music/work etc. It would look exactly like the current dock when viewing just one side.
This would satisfy both those with limited screen real estate and also those calling for multiple docks. It would also fit in nicely with the Expose look.
Of course they could maintain the dock expansion effect to leave us with a cool "Multi-faceted 3D rotating stretchy dock" (for want of a better description).
Also I can see no reason why it would necessarily need to be limited to 4 sides.

Sorry if I'm just repeating something that someone else has already suggested.

[Doctor Q]

there are perfect 3rd party ftp apps available, there's absolutely no need for apple to make one.You would probably not say that about web browsers if one wasn't included with Tiger, even though it's easy to get one elsewhere. Apple has to decide what tools a significant percentage of people would like to have from the start, and I think that FTP is such a standard, basic tool that it ought to be included.

Having a utility come with the O.S. helps people (and there are a lot of them) who don't know how to, don't want to, or are afraid to find and install third-party utilities that don't have an Apple stamp of approval.

It also means that people can depend on having it covered in Help Center, and it helps scripters by providing more foundation on which they can build. For example, if a graphical FTP client was provided with Tiger and was scriptable, then all users of Tiger could use programs that take advantage of that scripting, and it would be more likely that somebody would write such programs.

The downside of having Apple include a tool is that the market for 3rd party versions will shrink. Still, I think Apple should provide FTP to everyone. We power users can still hunt for better versions elsewhere if we want to.

[titaniumducky]

Don't know if anyone else has suggested this (I admit to only getting half-way through reading all the posts on this thread) but I had an idea about increasing the efficiency of the dock. I've read quite a few posts from people complaining about the screen real estate the dock occupies, and people resorting to 3rd party apps like the handy F10. What i think would work well (and look damn cool) would be the option to turn your dock into a "solid" 3D rectangular block.

This way when you filled up your dock, or it was getting too large, you could switch on the 3D option and rotate the dock to a free side, and so on. This would also enable you to cleanly divide up the various sides according to different categories of apps' eg.pro/music/work etc. It would look exactly like the current dock when viewing just one side.
This would satisfy both those with limited screen real estate and also those calling for multiple docks. It would also fit in nicely with the Expose look.
Of course they could maintain the dock expansion effect to leave us with a cool "Multi-faceted 3D rotating stretchy dock" (for want of a better description).
Also I can see no reason why it would necessarily need to be limited to 4 sides.

Sorry if I'm just repeating something that someone else has already suggested.

That would be awesome! I hope Apple puts this into Tiger or 10.5.

[adamjay]

thats a real good idea.

maybe also make it user definable in terms of how many sides it has.
i, personally, would like a 3-D triangular dock, so that i could see the other 2 sides on the back (transparently and, backwards of course) from the front. that way i know whats going on.

very good tip!! PRøBE

[Cooknn]

1 simple request, let me upload to FTP without buying a different program...I use Terminal. Not as pretty as a graphical FTP application, but it get's the job done...

[stcanard]

You would probably not say that about web browsers if one wasn't included with Tiger, even though it's easy to get one elsewhere. Apple has to decide what tools a significant percentage of people would like to have from the start, and I think that FTP is such a standard, basic tool that it ought to be included.

Any time I've tried typing ftp ftp.anysite.org in the terminal, I've found a perfectly good, full featured, FTP client available.

I'm not sure what the problem is.

[PRØBE]

thats a real good idea.

maybe also make it user definable in terms of how many sides it has.
i, personally, would like a 3-D triangular dock, so that i could see the other 2 sides on the back (transparently and, backwards of course) from the front. that way i know whats going on.

very good tip!! PRøBE



Yep that would work, you could stick with 3 sides and keep it tilted slightly to see the next side or just keep adding sides as you need them. Seeing as the dock stretches width ways as well as length, I wonder how many you could squeeze in there...

[Spades]

No. OOP roots are SIMULA, then SmallTalk, then C++, followed by a host of others including Cocoa/Objective C
(Cocoa is based on C and SmallTalk)

Objective C is not the original object oriented language. Correct.

However, I believe NeXTStep is the original object oriented application framework. The STL did not really exist yet, and it doesn't really have the functionality of Cocoa, Java, or .NET. Perhaps SmallTalk had that functionality available, but I don't think it did. I am not aware of anything object-oriented that had functionality similar to NeXT, until Java came along.

[Spades]

Apple needs to adopt the URL style address structure system that Windows uses. Anything else seems quaintly archaic, as if today's users can't read and make sense of a URL, needing instead informationless windows with no indication of their place in the file structure.

Location bars, which I assume you're referring to, are the ugliest things I've ever seen on file managers. I'd rather not have it there. It might be a good option for Apple to put in though, if people really want it.

If you are referring to being able to type http://www.macrumors.com/ into the file manager and having it switch to being a web browser, I'm completely opposed to that. Integrating a file manager with a web browser just doesn't make sense. It takes too much effort for no real benefits. It's also potentially dangerous.

If you're referring to being able to use a URL to reference things, it's already done. Try typing "file:///Applications" into Safari, or running "open file:///Users" from a terminal. It works.

I don't really have any problems figuring out where in the filesystem I am from the title of the window. But, I've always done serious file management from the command line anyways.

[Doctor Q]

Any time I've tried typing ftp ftp.anysite.org in the terminal, I've found a perfectly good, full featured, FTP client available.

I'm not sure what the problem is.The question is whether or not Apple should include a graphical FTP application that can be used outside Terminal. Like you, I consider command-line FTP to be just fine for my purposes. We are talking about all those other users, who rely on graphical apps and only point and click.

[stcanard]

The question is whether or not Apple should include a graphical FTP application that can be used outside Terminal. Like you, I consider command-line FTP to be just fine for my purposes. We are talking about all those other users, who rely on graphical apps and only point and click.

Is FTP still that widely used among a non-tech crowd? I don't see it, but maybe there are still specific segments that I don't interact with.

About the only time I even use FTP any more is if I'm grabbing source code off a public server. Even then 90% of the time it's either an http stream or a direct CVS checkout.

[davecuse]

Is FTP still that widely used among a non-tech crowd?

You are correct, it is probably not that widely used outside of those of us who do some web design and toy around with open source software. However from my experience working for a software company I know we tend to try and meet the needs of technical users requests ahead of non-technical users because we can all easily relate to their needs. That may not be the way apple does business, but from my experience that is the way things go.

[maneeshpan]

Frankly, I would like to see a new and improved Finder just as good, or even better than Cocoatech.com's Path Finder with several new exciting features, a new and improved version of Sherlock which makes searching online dictionaries even easier and is more Watson like than Sherlock 3 is, see new enhancements to the Dock and Expose which enable users to magnify the Dock and use Expose simultaneously, customization being restored to the Apple Menu (at top of desktop) so the Dock, Desktop, and Apple Menu can all be customizable, all the new features in Mac OS X built for Mac OS 10.1 and above like (10.2) Jaguar's inclusion of IChat, Safari, QuickTime 6, Sherlock 3 etc, Panther features like updated IChat with the release of IChat AV, Expose, FileVault, new Finder, more .Mac enhancements in Panther than Jaguar all being included in future Mac OS releases after X like Mac OS 11, Mac OS 12 and above (future Mac OS releases as mentioned like OS 11 + etc) being included in the new Mac OS versions. No Macintosh operating system after X can exist without the Dock, Expose, or other features. When Mac OS 11.0 (like Mac OS 10.0) first ships (or Mac OS 11.1 if it is the first available version of Mac OS X for consumers that works well; in the event Mac OS 11 faces the same development hurdles as X did originally) make all these Mac OS X features available in future Mac OS releases along with lots more Mac OS 11 + specific features that cannot be found in Mac OS X and below). I also want to see Macintosh operating system becoming available in more language versions like Hindhi, Sanskrit, Panjabi (Panjubi need to check spelling; definately Hindhi and one more out of the two mentioned after it), more Macintosh Explorer friendly Finder whicch can work easily with Rage Software's Macintosh Explorer unique file management application that offers a Windows friendly interface to Macintosh so Microsoft Windows users familiar with Windows Explorer interested in switching to Mac can become more easily comfortable with Mac computers and making them feel right at home. Adding more enhanced features to the Finder and Sherlock could eventually lead to Path Finder and Watson's demise but by Apple adding more advanced features to Mac OS X that will make the operating system in itself better than before. One thing I would really like to see is Apple buying Virtual PC from Microsoft or making a rival product just as good as Virtual PC for Mac and bundling it into Mac OS X as it does with ITunes, IChat, ICal, ISync, IMovie, QuickTime, IDVD, IPhoto, Safari etc.

[bearded_yak]

Apple needs to adopt the URL style address structure system that Windows uses. Anything else seems quaintly archaic, as if today's users can't read and make sense of a URL, needing instead informationless windows with no indication of their place in the file structure.

Now, I'm only taking a slightly edgy tone here because of the somewhat weakly qualified descriptor 'quaintly archaic'... Other than the broad assumption that most users understand URIs, the motivation is good...

The above quoted was spoken like a person who has never had to provide technical support for a 1200-person business (or perhaps you didn't really mean that the feature should be the default behavior). Today's POWERusers CAN make sense of URL-style file navigation aids. The *average* user tends to be confused by the mere presence of such a superfluous tool. I've supported both PCs and Macs in both my current job as well as my previous job (similar size) and realized a long time ago that the average user needs to see as little excess text as possible. In user interface design, one must shy away from providing too much information for too little impact. If you are a programmer, try this experiment... on a status line at the bottom of your application's window, cause the program to display the message

"Action Taken- MouseOn leftButtonDown leftButtonUp MouseOff- This message is UNIMPORTANT, please ignore this message and do not call your tech support department"

What's the first thing they'll do? They'll call tech support. Tech departments love that kinda stuff. It's just the highlight of a tech's day to explain to someone for the 5 tetrazillionth time that "you should ignore that text as it does not benefit what they are trying to do and, oh, by the way, RememberThatTrainingWeSpentX-thousandDollarsOnForYou?ThatTextAndItsPurposeWasThoroughlyCoveredThere."

Now, let's assume you left out some details of how you wished this idea to be implemented... An excellent way to provide this feature would be as a Finder Preferences option that defaults to 'off'. That way, the minority can turn it on and the majority don't have to worry with something they don't need. The idea of design of computing for the masses necessitates removing the user's intellect from the equation and assuming you are building systems for someone who has never even heard of computers.

Of course, then again, that is only a good idea if you want to maintain status-quo and not create a new more usable paradigm. While Column-view is not exactly revolutionary, or even perfect, it DOES give the user an indication of where they are in the file system. Problem is, most users don't understand the left-to-right column structure immediately upon trying it and they revert back to habitual List or Icon views. Column view becomes a Power-User type item.

So what side of the fence am I on? I say provide the Power User type features, but not as default. Perhaps there could be a Preferences Assistant that comes preloaded with popular Preference sets. The default set would be the one that tested the best with a random selection of the global demographic (the average user). Other sets could be tailored for PowerUsers, Developers, Graphics Artists, Publishing, and of course any other important groups.

Of course, on a final thought... What reason do we have for sticking with the whole file/folder paradigm? It seems that there are more intuitive ways to think of your data. Provide the average user with their files and folders, give PowerUsers a content-threaded concept-clustered three-dimensional interface enabled through a pressure-sensitive touchpad or a whole new input device. OK, now I'm just delusional... I'll quit typing now. :)

[rendezvouscp]

same problem.. same computer.. different wife... BUT i think it usually warns me that another user is logged in before you shut down and asks for a password to confirm that you really really really do want to shutdown.. add your name/password in the box and it should shut down.. hope this helps save you some time waiting for 10.4

dave

Offtopic: LOL!

Ontopic: I wonder if they will incorporate Spoken Interface into the operating system by the time WWDC rolls around. They already have preview versions available...
–Chase

[sinclairZX81]

this is exactly how it works right now, i run multiple accounts on my g5 and if i want to shut down or restart my computer and there is another account open, a dialog prompts me for my admin password. i've never had to log into another account to shut down or restart..

then there's a bug, because it doesn't work on my G5. I type the admin log/pass and it dismisses the dialog and then just sits there.

[sinclairZX81]

I'm not going to rush to any judgments. Last year we were all getting ourselves moist over early rumors of Piles. I'm not holding my breath that any of this vague rumor is particularly accurate.


please. never use the words 'moist' and 'piles' in the same sentence again. ever. :eek:

[rendezvouscp]

then there's a bug, because it doesn't work on my G5. I type the admin log/pass and it dismisses the dialog and then just sits there.

Works on my mom's iMac 1.25 and my G5, what system do you have?
–Chase

[TednDi]

and say that I believe (no real proof (sorry)) that the new Tiger will have as a feature a clustering ability. This will allow for all computers on the network to share in the computing power of each. Thus the whole Ghz thing becomes quite pointless. Need more power fireup the laptop! or the set top box.

wild speculation

T

[jsw]

and say that I believe (no real proof (sorry)) that the new Tiger will have as a feature a clustering ability. This will allow for all computers on the network to share in the computing power of each. Thus the whole Ghz thing becomes quite pointless. Need more power fireup the laptop! or the set top box.

wild speculation

T

While an Xgrid-like clustering capability would be nice as a built-in, please keep in mind the relatively slow transfer rates between computers; clustering works best on specific tasks, ones where the processing is more expensive than the transfer. So, while some things would improve with clustering, most users wouldn't see much of a change at all.

[jsw]

Don't know if anyone else has suggested this (I admit to only getting half-way through reading all the posts on this thread) but I had an idea about increasing the efficiency of the dock. I've read quite a few posts from people complaining about the screen real estate the dock occupies, and people resorting to 3rd party apps like the handy F10. What i think would work well (and look damn cool) would be the option to turn your dock into a "solid" 3D rectangular block. ....

I don't dispute the excellence of the concept.

As a stop-gap measure, what you might not know (or might - I don't mean to be insulting to your Mac IQ) is that you can drag folders into the dock, so you could have folders of various types of apps and then right-click (or control-click if you're a purist) to get to the app/doc/whatever you want.

Not 3D. Not beautiful. But perhaps useful to those with full docks until 10.4 comes out.

I'd also like to see desktop "profiles" so that, for example, I can see one set of things while dutifully working and another while playing. Yeah, I can do it with multiple logins and other mischief, but it's more work than I'd like it to be.

And, finally, I'd like to see true sharing amongst Macs so that, on the Macs I have, I don't need n sets of bookmarks, mail preferences including rules, etc. All the small, easily synched stuff - I'd like to see that, well, easily synched. Effortlessly. Set up the same account and password on multiple Macs, enable "profile sharing" or what have you, and forget about it.

[jsw]

then there's a bug, because it doesn't work on my G5. I type the admin log/pass and it dismisses the dialog and then just sits there.

Note that the default button is the "Cancel" one. You need to explicitly select the "OK" one.

Note: I don't have it sitting in front of me, so perhaps the text of the buttons isn't "Cancel" and "OK", but you get my drift....

[jsw]

... I paid the ~$70 intro price for .Mac when I bought the iBook because it sounded like it might be useful, but frankly, all of the features are not quite worth it for me:....

I'd like to see the renewal rates on .Mac memberships. Personally, I have it, and I did reluctantly renew it, and the biggest use I have for it is iDisk, which isn't great but works well enough to share files between me and other (remote) family members. I think it'd be a better deal at $50/year (well, duh, of course halving the price would make it better - I guess I mean "more reasonable").

I'd like to see what Tiger is doing to advance integration with .Mac. I personally do like the iDisk auto-sync. Still, though, at $99/year, I want more. The software giveaways (3rd party) are sometimes cool, but not enough.

[JayJay]

Are we gonna be be able to view the Quicktime feed of the WWDC on June 28? Last time, Quicktime Player kept failing to connect.

Is there other software to view the feeds? Another host? Is someone gonna post the video somewhere?

[damanja10]

HEy Guy's! Listen, Last year Panther blew us away with new features. But did ANY of them even get mentioned as a rumor? NO! And the one feature that did get rumored: Piles was not included. I think we're all just going to have to be patient and see what happens at WWDC.

[davidsanger]

I use ftp via fetch a lot for frequent website changes and it is a pain.

With Panther you can connect to the server from the finder and the site shows up as folders in a finder window on the desktop BUT is is read-only. It would be realy nice to just be able to update the files, live, right then and there.

Why on earth use terminal?



The question is whether or not Apple should include a graphical FTP application that can be used outside Terminal. Like you, I consider command-line FTP to be just fine for my purposes. We are talking about all those other users, who rely on graphical apps and only point and click.

[ingenious]

Offtopic: LOL!

Ontopic: I wonder if they will incorporate Spoken Interface into the operating system by the time WWDC rolls around. They already have preview versions available...
–Chase


Why wouldn't they? So far, it's been the only Tiger feature talked about!

Also, where are you getting preview versions? Do you have screen shots?

(4 Posts to Avatar!)

[ingenious]

I use ftp via fetch a lot for frequent website changes and it is a pain.

With Panther you can connect to the server from the finder and the site shows up as folders in a finder window on the desktop BUT is is read-only. It would be realy nice to just be able to update the files, live, right then and there.

Why on earth use terminal?


Yes, I agree. You should be able to edit FTP server files from the Finder. Apple also needs to incorporate a feature where if your connection drops, it pauses your download. I couldn't ever download the full SuSE package because of airport turning off when it was asleep and then not coming on right away. Apple needs to allow Airport/BT to stay on when the computer is asleep, just like the new IBM Thinkpads. That way it can really be your office assistant, checking your email and stocks and downloading files, syncing your PDA/Smart Phone while you're walking through the halls.


(3 Posts to Avatar! :D)

[ingenious]

HEy Guy's! Listen, Last year Panther blew us away with new features. But did ANY of them even get mentioned as a rumor? NO! And the one feature that did get rumored: Piles was not included. I think we're all just going to have to be patient and see what happens at WWDC.


Is the rumor crowd ever patient? ;) We want to know things ahead of time to be amazed, although it's kind of nice to be surprised, but not all the time. :D

(2 Posts to Avatar! :D)

[whenpaulsparks]

this rumor sucks! tighter .Mac integration? thats with every release! jesus! none of us care about that. and those that do, already know that .mac is tight in the os already.

but i'd like to see a new exposé, like sun's 3d desktop. that'd put us a few steps ahead of microsoft, whose 3d OS longhorn won't come out until 2006. like, windows that rotate around or something. more "oohs" and "aahs" are nice. not tighter .mac integration. thats lame, and expected. anyone could have come up with this rumor.

i hope there's more to the OS update than just technical things like, for example, a database-driven filesystem, or tighter .mac integration. like panther was neat, because it had exposé, fast user switching, ichat AV, and a new interface.

[jsw]

The preview versions have been seeded to some people who filled out the questionaire on their spoken interface page and I have been selected. The spoken interface is just that: completely spoken. ...

This is a nice addition. Yet another way Macs are easier to use - or, for some, all they can use.

[TednDi]

That would be cool for all of the total computer phobes out there. Also for integration with the media center type device. "powerbook read me my last three e-mails"

and in a hal type voice

"I'm sorry Ted I didn't understand you...." ;)

[davecuse]

That would be cool for all of the total computer phobes out there. Also for integration with the media center type device. "powerbook read me my last three e-mails"

and in a hal type voice

"I'm sorry Ted I didn't understand you...." ;)

You can already do that. Go to System Preferences > Speech. The big new "Universal Access" feature is Spoken Interface, which covers text to speech not the reverse.

[wdlove]

How do you like "Tiger" so far Chase? When it comes to the NDA, guess you should read the fine print.

[rendezvouscp]

How do you like "Tiger" so far Chase? When it comes to the NDA, guess you should read the fine print.

I don't have an actual copy of Tiger (or any copy for that matter), just the Spoken Interface software. I wish I had a copy of Tiger though :D . But who doesn't?
–Chase

[BaDBoY]

this rumor sucks! tighter .Mac integration? thats with every release! jesus! none of us care about that. and those that do, already know that .mac is tight in the os already.

but i'd like to see a new exposé, like sun's 3d desktop. that'd put us a few steps ahead of microsoft, whose 3d OS longhorn won't come out until 2006. like, windows that rotate around or something. more "oohs" and "aahs" are nice. not tighter .mac integration. thats lame, and expected. anyone could have come up with this rumor.

i hope there's more to the OS update than just technical things like, for example, a database-driven filesystem, or tighter .mac integration. like panther was neat, because it had exposé, fast user switching, ichat AV, and a new interface.

not to mention, NOT EVERYONE has a .mac account. i wonder out of all mac owners, who actually has a .mac account that can take advantage of the intergrated features.

[PowerMacMan]

I don't have an actual copy of Tiger (or any copy for that matter), just the Spoken Interface software. I wish I had a copy of Tiger though :D . But who doesn't?
–Chase

Bummer, we were hoping you could tell us all about it :rolleyes:

For the record, my name is Chase too... I would like to say that it is indeed the coolest name anyone could have, and very few do have that name ;)

[rendezvouscp]

Bummer, we were hoping you could tell us all about it :rolleyes:

For the record, my name is Chase too... I would like to say that it is indeed the coolest name anyone could have, and very few do have that name ;)

I have to say that I am a false Chase, I actually am a Chasen :eek:. But after being called Jason, Chad, and various other names, I almost always use Chase, unless I need actual identification. Maybe I will officially get my name changed one day...

I can say that the Spoken Interface software will be very cool indeed and will probably be used by regular (not disabled) users too. You know how Apple introduces things that you never thought you would need or use until they introduce it? Well, I never thought that Spoken Interface would actually be helpful in my everyday life or that it could be used to make me more productive. But as I run it, there are some really cool features that I am using. One is that the Spoken Interface menu is totally spoken, so it is running "in the background" but can be brought up at any time by pressing control + option + F5. (All of the controls are through control + option, so the whole keyboard can be used for those commands.) When I run my mouse over the dock, it tells me which application or folder my mouse is over, and the status of that application. Then when I switch applications, it tells me what is going on in the current application. There are many other things that will be of use to regular users, and I think that that will be a pretty good pushing point for Jobs.
–Chase(n)

[TednDi]

I want and have wanted since the days of dragon dictate. To be able to interact with my computer using the spoken word. My typing is fast enough, (with errors) but I still can speak much faster. I know that there are still voice to text programs but none of them are integrated into an OS. Mac then would be the easiest computer to operate. NO keyboard no Mouse (for ordinary tasks like reading your e-mail) a/the computer (or better yet just the mike and the display (perhaps with an ichat camera) could reside in the living room while the tower/laptop/cube sits in the office) Even my 80 year old dad might then be able to web surf using spoken word commands (for example go to "NEWS" could allow him to web surf to some of his bookmarks. The OS would read back his saved bookmarks in the NEWS section"

I have a highly dislexic cousin who cannot operate a computer at all. He is in the construction business and would benefit greatly from the voice interface. He cannot type at all but can speak.

"read me my e-mail" would be a killer app!

If Apple came up with such an interface using some speech to text engine then all of the executives who dictate would then be able to see the product immediatly and thus be able to prepare much of their own correspondence.
I am in the legal field and often witness lawyers dicatating letters or briefs for the secretaries to type. Speed and accuracy increase using a speech to text interface and Apple could then penetrate and dominate into yet another market. Add the functionaltity to be able to record on the Ipod and have that file translated into speech and the convergence killer app forms. Dictate in the car or wherever and when you dock the file is tranlated into text. Perhaps then the os could append the voice file to the text file and keep them as one for posterity.

Apple could then add one more bit of functionality to the text.. the ability to hear the person speaking the text back to you. I know that is available in an app called "voicemail" but in many cases inflection is often lost in an e-mail. Or the voice of a loved one with the text.

And/or Apple could get celebrities to do voices for the interface and sell them via itms. James earl Jones voice "YOU HAVE THREE E_MAILS"

ooh very cool

but that is prob os XX :(

[Doctor Q]

"read me my e-mail" would be a killer app!What would be the proper way for the computer to pronounce :) and ;) and :D and all the other smilies?

[PowerMacMan]

What would be the proper way for the computer to pronounce :) and ;) and :D and all the other smilies?

Maybe the computer would recognize those to be a sence of enthusiasm, therefore if you have a happy face, the voice would sound happy, etc. :)

[TednDi]

Maybe the computer would recognize those to be a sence of enthusiasm, therefore if you have a happy face, the voice would sound happy, etc. :)


The compter could just say "smile" "wink" "frown" "roll eyes" and emoticons could be turned on or off in the menu. Or if it displays it on a wireless monitor (hope hope) On the monitor could be a smiling face.

The Dim Memory....

I remember about 12 years ago Apple produced a promotional video with kids (gradeschool) in a wireless classroom with tablet computers and a whiteboard monitor the size of a blackboard. The kids did a show and tell in a keynote type program.

Also, apple at that time using this promotional film had Avatars which could read and interact with the user. Your computer's avatar would pop up and in spoken word would interact with the user. Simulated computer character would speak moving simulated lips.

Does anyone know where this video might still be???????

It seems like a pretty good roadmap of where apple is/was headed.

Remember wireless networking was not even envisioned at at that time.

[wdlove]

Bummer, we were hoping you could tell us all about it :rolleyes:

For the record, my name is Chase too... I would like to say that it is indeed the coolest name anyone could have, and very few do have that name ;)

I agree Chase is a nice sounding name. My name is also one that very few have and also a famous name of which I'm very proud.

As to "Tiger" we are all for the most part going to have to wait another two weeks to hear it directly from Steve.

[TednDi]

:D This was the video I was thinking of. Yes it was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY back in 1990 for the 1990 wwdc.

I can't find the actual video but it had some features which we are now only begining to see in acuatlity.

here is the only link that I can find to a description of the event.

http://pages.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/~saul/hci_topics/video/apple_video.html

If anyone has the video please post.

I am sure that Tiger might be on it's way to being much/most of this.






here are some of the videos that I was able to find.....

http://www.billzarchy.com/clips/clips_apple_nav_navigator.htm

http://www.billzarchy.com/clips/clips_apple_nav.htm

[url]http://www.bu.edu/jlengel/kn65kfs.mov

oh yea, also it seems that it was the scully years at apple.

[Agathon]

By the way, I read the agreement, and it never said that I was under a NDA (it only talked about the risk and responsibility of running the software), so I believe I can freely give this information out. If someone knows differently (ie, all preview software is under a NDA), please tell me! :eek:
–Chase

I'm pretty sure you are OK. I've people talking about it on Apple's own discussion site and no one seems to care that they are openly seeking help with it. Apparently some people couldn't turn it off and it was driving them bats.

Anyway, at my house there is desperate need for document piles. This is my wife's desktop. I couldn't really see the point of piles until I saw this. ;)

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~lchurchm/images/picone.jpg

[rendezvouscp]

I'm pretty sure you are OK. I've people talking about it on Apple's own discussion site and no one seems to care that they are openly seeking help with it. Apparently some people couldn't turn it off and it was driving them bats.


Yes, it can be very upsetting, to the point that you can't take it anymore and you must turn it off. Maybe I should tell them that,

According to AppleInsider, some Apple developers have seriously hurt themselves. Some say that the new beta OS, Tiger, has made them go insane after enabling Spoken Interface. Here is what Apple had to say in a press conference today:
"We would not release any software that could potentially hurt people or any other living thing. We are currently looking into the issue."
Sadly, anyone who has looked into the issue has not lived to tell about it.

Sorry about the black humor. I hope you find it funny.
–Chase

[illitrate23]

Yea, you can find that in Sys Prefs> Accounts> UserName> Startup Items. Make sure to have it start up hidden or otherwise, AFAIK, it will be open.
i've got iCal set up to start like this on my powerbook and it works just fine
the only real problem is if you have iSync set to automatically synchronise (either hourly, or if you've hacked to for longer periods)
then, if it's been longer than the last scheduled sync since you used the machine, it'll launch iCal on startup and immediately try to sync with your iDisk etc.
some times it's hides itself properly when it's done, but most times it doesn't - which is annoying

[illitrate23]

The Tiger features are much more exciting than better .Mac integration and a new sidebar. The builds that I saw in late January had vertical dock integration (sort of a dock within a dock) that would slide out. In other words, all of your photo applications could be represented in the main dock by one icon and when you selected that icon, another dock would slide out, perpendicular from it. I was aware that there may be 3rd party applications that do something similiar, but this was really slick.

oh i really hope so - ever since i first saw the dock in 10.0 i wanted to have this kind of function - i have far too many apps to keep them in the dock, so i've never really been able to use it as launcher - and there are no 3rd party apps that adequately do this. i really hope this feature is in Tiger - that would be awesome

[biago]

a new native hypercard version. Just had to be that guy :rolleyes:

[ClimbingTheLog]

Anyway, at my house there is desperate need for document piles. This is my wife's desktop. I couldn't really see the point of piles until I saw this. ;)

Is that you taking the picture?

[Agathon]

Is that you taking the picture?

Yes, everyone says I look just like Viggo Mortensen, just better. ;)

[Jagga]

expanding on edesignuk's comment...

"you" may want to shut down the computer but others may not. that's why you need an admin override to shut down the computer...

i'm not sure if it would be good for anyone to come by and shut down the computer. this is not a bug. i can see the annoyance but it's more of a security feature.

Also
What does XP do, just discard all unsaved changes without asking? OSX still gives you that as an option, if you're an admin. You wouldn't want a dataloss behavior to be the default.

Now I would like OS X to allow Admin users to shut down, the computer and if ANY other users were loggin and had photos to modify, word, excel,spreadsheets,iCal appointments that weren't saved nor had a current title to save them generically - notifying the user that is shutting down the Mac then upon any of those users that had documents previously saved generically upon loading up alerting them what those documents are with some kind of pop-up/sidebar window allow them to "remind me later in 15min etc" or "open all docements". so that they can edit the name which would in affect remove the generic name (form those documents that were left on the desktop or the applications username folder space or just in the app - like iCal). And that would solve that!!

;) :cool: :D what think you all??

Windows XP just alerts you that unsaved info will be deleted.

[macsrus]

Give me a 64 bit kernel.... and ill buy it....
I have programs that need to access more than 4 Gig per thread


Completly get rid of Netinfo.... and ill buy it...(and yes i know It can almost be shut off in Panther) I want it completly gone

[macsrus]

Give me a 64 bit kernel.... and ill buy it....
I have programs that need to access more than 4 Gig per thread


Completly get rid of Netinfo.... and ill buy it...(and yes i know It can almost be shut off in Panther) I want it completly gone

HeHe looks like Im buying.... because I just found out IT WILL HAVE A 64 BIT KERNEL and it NO LONGER will HAVE ANY OF THE JUNKY/CRAPPY (NEXT) STUFF LEFT IN IT...... YEA NETINFO IS GONE......

WAY TO GO APPLE.....

[PowerMacMan]

HeHe looks like Im buying.... because I just found out IT WILL HAVE A 64 BIT KERNEL and it NO LONGER will HAVE ANY OF THE JUNKY/CRAPPY (NEXT) STUFF LEFT IN IT...... YEA NETINFO IS GONE......

WAY TO GO APPLE.....

Meaning Tiger will be 64-bit? :confused: :(

How did you "find out"? :confused:

[dr.Zoidberg]

HeHe looks like Im buying.... because I just found out IT WILL HAVE A 64 BIT KERNEL and it NO LONGER will HAVE ANY OF THE JUNKY/CRAPPY (NEXT) STUFF LEFT IN IT...... YEA NETINFO IS GONE......

WAY TO GO APPLE.....

your sig says you have a G4.....wont a 64-bit kernel be useless to you....if it isnt, then good for you, and i will soon have a DP 1.8 G5, so it would help me.....but i was pretty sure a 64-bit kernel would do you with G4's no good....please someone let me know if i'm wrong.

[PowerMacMan]

your sig says you have a G4.....wont a 64-bit kernel be useless to you....if it isnt, then good for you, and i will soon have a DP 1.8 G5, so it would help me.....but i was pretty sure a 64-bit kernel would do you with G4's no good....please someone let me know if i'm wrong.

You're right, but maybe he is excited none-the-less...

[savar]

Hmm that would be freaking cool. Slow as heck but cool.

It doesn't have to be that slow, I mean as long as you're not planning on editing DV from your home folder or anything. The potential benefits all rely on small amounts of data: your email settings, any email you've got saved, preferences for safari, etc.

My only thing is that it should be "Portable Home" and NOT "Home on iPod".. While I love my iPod, the idea of fishing it out of my bag, reaching around for a firewire port, having a cable dangling around, etc. just to use a public computer is too much.

I would much prefer to put a subset of my home directory (ie. prefs for major apps and the stuff in the "Documents" folder) onto a USB flash key. A flash key fits on a key chain and there's no cord to plug into the back or anything. In fact, maybe there will even be an Apple branded flash key.

Until there's a firewire port on the front of macs, Home on iPod is a no go.

[jocknerd]

I guess that means Tiger will really cost $228 ($129 for Tiger + $99 for .Mac). I for one, am not renewing my .mac account this year. I've been on it for two years and I haven't yet found any reason why I paid $200 for this.

[JFreak]

Now I would like OS X to allow Admin users to shut down, the computer and if ANY other users were loggin and had photos to modify, word, excel,spreadsheets,iCal appointments that weren't saved nor had a current title to save them generically - notifying the user that is shutting down the Mac then upon any of those users that had documents previously saved generically upon loading up alerting them what those documents are with some kind of pop-up/sidebar window allow them to "remind me later in 15min etc" or "open all docements". so that they can edit the name which would in affect remove the generic name (form those documents that were left on the desktop or the applications username folder space or just in the app - like iCal). And that would solve that!!

;) :cool: :D what think you all??

Windows XP just alerts you that unsaved info will be deleted.

apple can make such a system that asks each app to save unsaved documents, but it would still be upp to app developer to honor that save requests. if apple made some kind of "force save" feature, that would have to be some kind of a memory fingerprint, and taking advantage of that would mean that after reboot each user would have to be "force logged in" and returned to the same state as before reboot. but many times admin reboots are made because of some user has done something that jams the system, so that would effectively cripple the "force boot" feature.

currently, because osx is a unix, root user can reboot the system without asking anybody anything. which is good. i'd like to think apple thinks each user who lets somebody else log in while leaving documents open would be smart enough to save one's work before leaving. apple has previously been into making systems intuitive for anybody to use, and not into doing things on behalf of the user, which is the microsoft way. it's up to user to do what one wants, not up to decide what user would perhaps been doing anyway.

i'd give it a no-go.

[runeasgar]

Kinda funny =] how everyone dislikes the brushed metal theme of os x. I am a designer, and frankly, I want my OS to compliment what I use the OS to do. So when i open a website, a program, or something else, I don't want the OS to distract me from the art that is coming up on screen.

os x panther's theme is neutral and complimentary, exactly what I want.

i guess you guys don't like the anodized aluminum powerbooks either?

there's something to be said for minimalism when it comes to graphics. "design simplicity"

[LEgregius]

Kinda funny =] how everyone dislikes the brushed metal theme of os x. I am a designer, and frankly, I want my OS to compliment what I use the OS to do. So when i open a website, a program, or something else, I don't want the OS to distract me from the art that is coming up on screen.
Odd. I think the brushed metal is very distracting. The regular OS X theme is mostly white with subtle pinstripes. I consider that clean and attractive, but not distracting.

os x panther's theme is neutral and complimentary, exactly what I want.
More like lacking contrast. As people get older, they need more and more contrast in order to read things. The brushed metal look, which is actually a separate theme unrelated to the OS X pinstripes, is used to make the UI of consumer level device-like apps stick out, which is exactly opposite of what you are suggesting.

i guess you guys don't like the anodized aluminum powerbooks either?

No, I like them, and if you stick a powerbook in with other laptops, it really sticks out. They are shiny and elegant.

[runeasgar]

simple difference in opinion. I don't find the brushed metal distracting at all. I don't even notice it. It works without me noticing it, that's what I want. Whether it emphasizes things or not, I don't notice that it's doing it, but I appreciate the result.

It's funny that I hear about people disliking the OS X themes all the time online, and yet of the.. I dunno.. 7 or 8 other mac users I know, not a single person dislikes it. at least 4 or 5 have expressed how much they LIKE the theme.

[dudemac]

exactly. i LOVE the columns view, use it 95% of the time (except when i need to sort by date modified or something). but it's really annoying when i can't back up past my home folder. that's not the top level of the computer, now is it? let me back up 'til i can't back no more!

and for the person that was saying that the left finder toolbar is too large in panther, i agree. have you ever resized it to just the icons? i like that view much better.

If you use the path button instead of the back button it is possible to go the highest level. You just have to think about a little different than windows explorer type file browser. They are not the same and are not intended to be. So I while I understand the complaint, it seems to me that there is a unwillingness to change the way you think about file browsing. The windows metaphor is ok and it works but we should not limit the way something works to only that metaphor. Now I am not defending the obvious deficiencies in finder. I understand that this is one of the weakest apps on OS X, and it comes with the OS. ;)

just a thought.

[Les McQueen]

My Tiger wish list....

1. A revert back to Jag in the way it 'connects to server' when trying to hook up to another mac/pc. For some reason under Panther I can't get it to work properly. Jags way seemed to be better/easier.

2. An audible alert when one logs in with an incorrect password, rather than the silent shaking window thing.

3. No, the brushed metal can stay, I liked the pinstripes too. It's all good.

4. I know some people like it but personaly I cannot stand the sidebar in the open windows. So in the interest of fairness to all I would love to see at least an option to permanently disable it. Instead of haveing to manually customise each new folder you create.

5. A somehow simplified method of managing files/users would be nice. Why we have to have three of everything I don't know. Having three libraries can get very confusing sometimes. 'where is that prefernce file for so and so..?' 'did it go into my preferences or the global preferences?'

Yeah plenty more things could be tweaked i guess. Oh yeah, the ability to play a sound file on the fly. Remember system 9 where you'd click on a sound file and it just played. No opening Quicktime or iTunes. That would be sweet.

my 2 cents...

[runeasgar]

where could i find a liveupdating site that will be covering the keynote? i may not have enough b/w to view it. i just wanna know what's up and what's being announced. some screenshots would be neat =]

[Kalama Jim]

How about for home users the simple ability to SHUT DOWN (from any user) with the option of not having to log-in to each user and log them off. It is a pain in the butt for me to turn off my iMac then I get this stupid meessage cause my wife used a program under her user. I just want to be able tu turn off the computer ASAP sometimes. :eek:


If your wife walks in and you're "surfin'" where ya shouldn't oughta' be ... unplug the darn thing ...

Back to

[jimjiminyjim]

... and I had nothing to post. Went back to the MacRumors homepage for more brain-drain, had a change of heart, and decided that since I read 9 pages of this stuff, I had better post something to encourage the conversation:

These photos are fake. You heard it from me.



These photos are real. You heard it from me.




See if I'm not right.


Analyzing the ideas: i am sometimes unsure of where certain settings are in the pref panel, I like it. Konfabulator look alike - while cool, not useful or appreciated unless integrated in a VERY impressive way. i like the pipeline.gif file... it's the most impressive.