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arn
Jul 9, 2002, 08:21 PM
CNet provides (http://news.com.com/2100-1040-942608.html) rumors about the upcoming MacWorld Expo NY 2002:

Apple Computer plans to serve up a new iMac model with a larger flat-panel display during next week's Macworld Expo trade show, according to sources.

The article further states that:

- Jaguar will be a focus and "may deliver surprise news on how soon the OS will be ready".
- New version of iTunes supporting MPEG-4
- And no new PowerMacs... but possibly updated in Mid August.
- PowerMac swith processors in excess of 1.2GHz, faster memory, and bus

Moonlight
Jul 9, 2002, 08:30 PM
Do we really need a 17" flat panel iMac ? By moving to the LCD we gained 2" already in monitor real estate, why add more so soon when what we need is faster powermacs !!!

shadowfax0
Jul 9, 2002, 08:33 PM
Oh phoooe! I want my G5!

MacAztec
Jul 9, 2002, 08:34 PM
CNet is stupid.

I dont think the 17in iMac is THAT bad of an idea, but saying that about the towers is just plain dumb.

I mean, the XServe is DDR and has 120GB drives, so that should go for the PMac too!!!

MrEFord
Jul 9, 2002, 08:35 PM
So we go from rumors of Dual 1.4 Ghz, to no new Powermacs at all? Wow, that's a drastic 180 turn...

-E

iznAdiznam
Jul 9, 2002, 08:38 PM
Rumors huh? I guess this means CNet will be denied Expo press access, huh?

Yeah right!

Double standard???

Adam

TyleRomeo
Jul 9, 2002, 08:40 PM
this supports my Display conclusion that new Power Macs wont happen until after august 12th and will come with Jaguar included. Apple has to get rid of its current PowerMacs that just arent selling as well as they should be by offering huge rebates on the monitors. Hey maybe by then Firewire 2 and USB 2 or even a new Superdrive will be included in the new PowerMacs

Macmaniac
Jul 9, 2002, 08:45 PM
Not having faster powemacs would be a huge mistake for apple! XServe has DDR and I'm sure thats going in with a faster processor, this sounds like a alot of BS. I thought MPEG 4 was for quick time not iTunes, I don't their story is right at all.

Sayer
Jul 9, 2002, 08:47 PM
Apple isn't selling G4s because people want a newer FASTER G4! Hello, is this getting through to Steve Jobs yet?

We need more power to run Final Cut Pro and Adobe Photoshop on OS X, not because we are whiny ninnys.

GIVE US NEW G4s @ 1.4 Ghz and 166 MHz DDR RAM!! Now!! THAT is what we want to buy, not last years G4!!

ddtlm
Jul 9, 2002, 08:53 PM
Of course if Apple is sitting on a glut of G4 towers, they would not want to release the new model.

However, I do not believe this latest rumor. Apple has to know they need to make some progress and putting this off till August would essentially mean crappy sales till August.

MOM
Jul 9, 2002, 08:54 PM
Going to a 17" imac brings the flat panel to a more intermediate position between the eMac and the pro line. In effect the iMac is becoming what the cube was trying for and the eMac is taking the place of the old low-end iMac. Not a bad strategy in this economy.

MOM

bobme
Jul 9, 2002, 08:55 PM
The CNet article sounds like a Steve Jobs misdirection play. The .mac part especially smacks of Steve. It's just a goof on .net. How hard is it to change a few screens on a Jaguar beta? Just remember: Steve hates leaks!

daRAT
Jul 9, 2002, 08:57 PM
Yep a BIG mistake if this is true! Unless they up the cpu speed also in the Imac too, like to the 933mhz chip. The do away with the 800mhz tower.

Anyone buy a Xserve yet? I was kinda wondering, tip it on it's side and you have a "new" tower :]

*heh*

Oh well...maybe in August ...

Macette
Jul 9, 2002, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Macmaniac
I thought MPEG 4 was for quick time not iTunes, I don't their story is right at all.

Check out http://www.apple.com/mpeg4/aac/ for stuff about the relationship of AAC and MPEG-4 - iTunes will probably be updated to support 'mp4' (AAC), which compresses music at the same sound quality as CDs, into something smaller than an MP3! I'm all for it... can't wait for the iPod firmware update. Then I can't wait to sit down and re-compress all 230 of my CDs.... erk.

3rdpath
Jul 9, 2002, 09:03 PM
this is disinformation at its finest...

what a load of shinola...no new powermacs...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

DakotaGuy
Jul 9, 2002, 09:05 PM
It is nice to see Apple is focusing on it's consumer lines for once, giving the iMac a true high end consumer status if the 17" is introduced. I personally think that Apple should introduce the 17" iMac and discontinue the 15" model, because for the price it conflicts with the new eMac. The eMac should offer the current 700MHz with a combo drive and an 800MHz with a Super drive. The iMac needs to be moved to a 933MHz processor with the 17" flat panel and a SuperDrive. There is no reason to over lap models. It only causes confusion. Oh yeah and discontinue the G3 iMac. It really adds confusion. If you really need a $700 computer then make a base line eMac with a G3. It just would all make more sense.

As far as the pro-line is concerned Apple really needs to get it's act together. It is letting it's pro-line go like it did to the consumer line last year, before the new iMacs, eMacs, and iBooks came out, but they have gotten their act together on the e and i lines, so I can't imagine that the Power line would be very far behind.

Beej
Jul 9, 2002, 09:25 PM
17" iMacs? Hmmm... not sure about that one...

But not seeing new PowerMacs until mid August (12th or later) doesn't sound too bad to me. It is not unusual for Apple to announce a product at a MW and release it a little while later when production is motoring along.

In this case, Apple could announce new PowerMacs on the 17th and release them on the 13th, just under a month later.

trodel_post
Jul 9, 2002, 09:29 PM
I really hope that this rumor is untrue. Sure, 17" iMacs would be nice, but a lack of G4 update seems suicidal.

Apple says they want people to switch to the Mac. The bottom line though is that the G4 is years behind. The Athlon processor was released in 1998, and was shortly followed by FSB speeds as fast as 200MHz. DDR Ram enjoyed its first widespread use on the original GeForce cards from nVidea around the same time period.

Bottom line: Apple's current G4 lineup still relies on architectural components that are 3 to 4 years behind their x86 counterparts. Yes, G4 has some architectural advantages, altivec, more data paths, etc... But it is absured that Apple is still poking along with a slow FSB and PC133 SDRAM.

They complain about having high inventory. Their inventory is high because people need more out of their machines, and Apple isn't cutting it. If they want to sell, they're going to have to compete. How is it that Moore's Law applies to everyone but Apple?! Ridiculous.

Let's all start a mass email campaign, and demand that Apple deliver on some truly modern hardware to go along with their incredibly modern and amazing OS. Let Steve know that we need this now, not months from now! I would even be satisfied if they keep their clock speeds constant and add DDR and a faster FSB!

As it is now, $3000 for a machine with PC133 and a slow bus seems crazy when you consider the alternatives. No wonder they're having a hard time moving their inventory.

If you ask me, I say that Apple should dump Motorola, and port everything to Clawhammer. At least AMD is making an effort to innovate, and they can produce in volume with incredible pricepoints.

</rant>

nero007
Jul 9, 2002, 09:31 PM
I could see this happening. Apple has a new device to release at MW and their new stance is to release stuff when it's ready. So maybe the rumor about the enclosures was right on, because Apple isn't releasing new towers until August?

trodel_post
Jul 9, 2002, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by bobme
The CNet article sounds like a Steve Jobs misdirection play. The .mac part especially smacks of Steve. It's just a goof on .net. How hard is it to change a few screens on a Jaguar beta? Just remember: Steve hates leaks!

I sure hope you're right!

iamspooky
Jul 9, 2002, 09:47 PM
Aloha.

If the premise is that Apple is holding off releasing the "new" powermacs in an effort to spur sales of the current G4, I say "kiss my big fat 'O'kole" because if consumers (like me) didn't buy with the recent rebate, we sure the hell ain't gonna buy without the rebate. The new rebate for purchase with Apple flat panel displays appeals to such a small percentage of people. So IMHO, this argument is old poi...

Second, if Apple wants to appeal to the PC consumer and are trying to entice people to make the jump from PC to Apple (like me) they better do it now while the interest is peaking. I will seriously reconsider my purchase if I gotta wait till August...however I still will not purchase a current model G4....

This rumour is purely a marketing ploy.

BUT!!....Just in case.... living in Hawaii requires us "local folk" to look at the "sunnyside" of things...at least we know that new powermacs are on the way.....the weather is good here... I guess I might just have a little more time to go surfing this month..:cool:

iamspooky::D

trodel_post
Jul 9, 2002, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by iamspooky
Aloha.

Second, if Apple wants to appeal to the PC consumer and are trying to entice people to make the jump from PC to Apple (like me) they better do it now while the interest is peaking. I will seriously reconsider my purchase if I gotta wait till August...however I still will not purchase a current model G4....



I completely agree. I've already been waiting since June. I sold my PC in June, and I'm currently using an ancient PII-200 that a friend let me borrow. I can't take this much longer, but I will reconsider my decision to purchase a Mac if I have to hold out until August. If they don't do something for me, I am going to be very, very disappointed in Apple.

Why Not
Jul 9, 2002, 10:02 PM
Hold on before everyone jumps to conclusions! I think I have figured it out!

Apple cannot slap the hands of someone like CNet for publishing rumors. Same goes for the other big boys with their legal defense teams. They can smack the smaller sites around all day long. Well, Apple is, I think, playing a brilliant card here. Cannot beat them with a legal argument in posting rumors, but what if they print the wrong rumors?! They look bad for not only publishing rumors, but really bad for publishing completely wrong rumors!

I must hand it to them this time, if this is what they are up to! Kick butt thinking. If you cannot beeat them with the standard tools, be a little different and creative!

At least, this way they might be trying to keep the big/small guy playing field a little more fair...

-jason

JtheLemur
Jul 9, 2002, 10:05 PM
They complain about having high inventory. Their inventory is high because people need more out of their machines, and Apple isn't cutting it.

I have to agree with this - I need a new Pro machine desperately, but I sure as hell am NOT going to buy the current dual-gig! They want to get rid of inventory? Take $800 off the top-end one, and NOT require you to buy a display along with it! A LOT of pros are NOT buying towers right now because 'signs' point to there being an UPDATE at this Macworld Expo.

If this is true, it's going to be yet another terrible MWNY. Last year's was awful too. Good thing I didn't have my company pay for a SuperPass, I'd feel terribly guilty. "So what's the new stuff?" "New? Nothing. Same old crap, just recycled with a little 'marketing hardware' added..."

It seems like they really can't afford to delay the introduction of new Pro machines longer than the expo - if they do, they'd better sure as hell give a SOLID SHIP date. I can totally see some jaded professionals walk out of the keynote and ordering an Alienware PC directly from Apple's computers on their floor space!

Marianco
Jul 9, 2002, 10:08 PM
Until there is a good enough PowerMac (i.e., at least a dual 1.4 GHz G4 with DDR RAM), I am definitely not going to buy another PowerMac. Are you listening Steve? You won't have my sale until maybe MacWorld SF 2003.

If the Dual 1.4 GHz G4 with DDR comes out, Steve, you'll have two purchases from me. The Dual 1.4 GHz G4 now, then the G5 in 2003. If there isn't a dual 1.4 GHz G4, I'll just sit tight with a USED until the G5. Are you listening Steve?

I will not buy the Dual 1GHz G4 model because it is only twice as fast as the ORIGINAL single 500 Mhz G4 which debuted in August 1999, fully 3 years ago. All you have to do is look at Apple's own specs using Final Cut Pro!!!

A dual 1.4 GHz G4 with DDR RAM, hopefully will at least be three times faster than the 1999 model. Even then, I don't even call it a new generation of desktop computer. A new generation, in my book, is at least FOUR times faster. Then you won't get use to the speed as easily, wanting for more.

When Apple transitioned from the Quadra 660AV with 25 MHz 68030 to the 132 MHz PowerPC 604 in 1996, that was a huge EIGHT times jump in speed. You could get high just playing with the computer then.

The transition from the 132 MHz PowerPC to the 400 MHz G3 was a smaller but still great jump in speed, particularly as memory prices came down and you could outfit the PowerMac with 256 MB of RAM. For Photoshop, it was a noticeable, almost four-fold increase in speed.

It's disappointing that the recent jumps in speed have become ever so smaller as the chip clockspeed has gone up.

JtheLemur
Jul 9, 2002, 10:08 PM
I REALLY hate it that ThinkSecret has the same info, only expanded on. Maybe they and CNet are talking to the same 'informants' and such, but it's disconcerting that's for sure. Hoping that RailHead is right (they're usually accurate) and ThinkSecret is DEAD wrong...

-- J

Cappy
Jul 9, 2002, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Beej
17" iMacs? Hmmm... not sure about that one...

But not seeing new PowerMacs until mid August (12th or later) doesn't sound too bad to me. It is not unusual for Apple to announce a product at a MW and release it a little while later when production is motoring along.

In this case, Apple could announce new PowerMacs on the 17th and release them on the 13th, just under a month later.

If the idea is to clear out current inventory, making any announcement or hint about new systems in a month would make that plan of clearing things out a disaster.

Cappy
Jul 9, 2002, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by JtheLemur
I REALLY hate it that ThinkSecret has the same info, only expanded on. Maybe they and CNet are talking to the same 'informants' and such, but it's disconcerting that's for sure. Hoping that RailHead is right (they're usually accurate) and ThinkSecret is DEAD wrong...

-- J

There is a very good reason to believe that cnet and ThinkSecret are accurate. It seems odd that Apple would put out a new rebate promotion and have that run while new powermacs are announced and coming down the pike.

Just remember though when the G4's originally were announced, none of the rumor sites saw it happening even a day before the announcement. Just about all of them were saying they were going to come much later. Apple could surprise everyone but if I put money on it, I'd have to agree with cnet and thinksecret.

Tue12
Jul 9, 2002, 10:25 PM
Granted it's rumor, but it looks like the PC industry, and Apple, are in the ****ter this year.

It's ugly and getting uglier.

3rdpath
Jul 9, 2002, 10:32 PM
the more i think about this the more i think it could be true...

WHY?

because its about as stupid a move as apple could make....

i love this quote from the article: [ As one dealer put it, "Professional system sales have slowed to a trickle. They've got to clear stock before they rollout new models. That's how bad it is." ]

so by all means, keep trying to sell the old stuff...

and a new larger screen for the imac...c'mon, every report says they're not selling that well since the original hoopla wore off...who thinks a larger screen is gonna impress the consumer market?

someone send them some first year college business and marketing books...and do it quickly.:rolleyes:

mymemory
Jul 9, 2002, 10:32 PM
Ok, let me see.

1. A few month ago I said that the iMac could handle a 17" screen, everybody made fun of me. I was saying that the frame around the screen was taking too much room. Well, here we go, posibly a 17" iMac. But ;ets wait for the expo better.

2. I said possibly G5s, of course I was wrong, but let me tell you, there is a processor upgrade comming on because even ME would like to get a PC as my next computer (I would always keep my Macs around), specially because compatibility issues, som avi movies can't run in my Mac and some web pages looks different, etc. I do not get along with any type of emulator neither.

So, looks like Apple is having fun with the rumors sites now
:)

MacRumorSkeptic
Jul 9, 2002, 10:36 PM
I think that Apple could be purposefully misleading all the news/rumors sites with this information. There will probably be new PowerMacs announced with a shipping date of early to mid August at the same time as the release of Jaguar. I'm sure that Apple is waiting til PC sales and the economy improve until they announce G5's or a new digital device. Although Apple did say that they were going to inovate themselves out of the economic slump.

jelloshotsrule
Jul 9, 2002, 10:44 PM
i can see them not shipping the new powermacs until august... but to not even mention them.... well that just seems tough to believe.

only another week... i can't wait

Rocketman
Jul 9, 2002, 10:57 PM
Originally posted by daRAT
Yep a BIG mistake if this is true! Unless they up the cpu speed also in the Imac too, like to the 933mhz chip. The do away with the 800mhz tower.

Anyone buy a Xserve yet? I was kinda wondering, tip it on it's side and you have a "new" tower :]

*heh*

Oh well...maybe in August ...

The limitation in the imac is bus speed. I suspect they are not de-crippling that. I wish I were wrong. Hooking a bigger display to it must be to address some corporate feedback from sales geeks, not some compelling consumer demand issue.

X-serve as a tower alternative is actually a sensational idea. A top of the line powermac is about the same price and processor speed but the XS has much faster bus and IO and adding drives as needed is not only cheap but top notch performance.

I suspect as this option becomes more favorable there will be a run on 4u closures as tower closure alternatives.

URL's for micro racks anyone?

Why wait? Start a fad now. Apple announced already that additional servers are available as BTO sans OSX Server.

Rocketman

http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

demars
Jul 9, 2002, 11:01 PM
The CNET story rings true mainly because of the PowerMac promotion Apple just announced, right on the tail of a previous promotion. Since I was assuming new towers as a given at MWNY, I was puzzled that this promotion was supposed to last through August. Apple generally discontinues an old model the day they start shipping the new one. And when they announce a deadline for a promotion it always runs for that period. These two facts are hard to reconcile with any sort of introduction of a new PowerMac, so when I read this article it really clicked.

I don't think they'll even mention new PowerMacs at MWNY. it would step all over their promotion.

At any rate, I though a while back Apple decided to stop introducing major new products _only_ at Macworld Expo, since it was causing a big sales slowdown whenever an Expo is coming up. I haven't seen much evidence of this strategy since the iPod was introduced, but this would be consistent with the strategy.

Personally, I am somewhat disappointed because I am poised to purchase my first new computer in years (the last one I bought was a G3 (beige) desktop). Although the decision is between an iMac and a PowerMac G4 I am leaning towards maximum performance (i.e. the PowerMac). On the other hand, I probably won't be in a position to make the purchase until the end of August, so if they introduce in mid-August it would be about right for me. If they wait much longer, though, I am going to be very frustrated!

Some of the other news is intriguing, especially the new monitors. One anomaly in the line as it exists right now is that, in my opinion, the iMac LCD is superior in quality to the stand-alone LCD monitors. The variation in brightness with extreme viewing angle is really amazing in the iMac, but I don't think the other LCDs from Apple have this property. I wonder if the new monitors will. Should be interesting to see what happens.

dongmin
Jul 9, 2002, 11:12 PM
I'm inclined to believe Thinksecret and Cnet. Thinksecret says they're "100% certain" of no new powermacs--in my days following TS, I don't think I've ever read them 100% certain about anything.

And the stuff about the most recent promotion makes sense. Why would Apple start a promotion tied to Powermacs a week before they're replaced by a new line?

The 17" iMac? Who freakin cares?! And we already know almost everything there is to know about Jaguar and QT6. If this is all we're getting from Steve, wow, this will be the worst Expo ever. Wow.

tjwett
Jul 9, 2002, 11:18 PM
this is the kind of news that makes me mad in many ways. if it's true, it shows a pathetic move on Apple's part. potential converts have never been so interested in the Mac as now. if they don't come up with some competitive hardware soon they can kiss the "switch" thing goodbye. and if it's not true, and this is just Apple sending out ************* rumors to create a smokescreen then that makes me mad too. plus, i was just getting ready to dump a ton of money on a serious new studio power system and if i have to wait any longer i'll be screwed, and thus, very mad. i'll be at MWNY, and if i wait all day for a new PowerMac and Steve says "oh, one more thing..." and pulls out a digital picture frame, i'll never buy a Mac again.

tortus
Jul 9, 2002, 11:21 PM
We are in accordance that the lack of a substantial upgrade to the PowerMacs is just a huge, egregious blight on the relevance of Apple in the current computing world and its minions, us (OS X.2 is going to rock, but it better have the hardware to compliment it.)

And, we seem to disagree with CNet, for our minds are so clouded with dillusions of g5 and dual 1.4 Ghz g4 that we will not accept anything less. We power users are extremely hungry. We need to be fed, and we all believe that Steve will feed us. Let us hope that he does.

Steve loves to showboat and he loves to maintain the mystique of Apple. Part of the fascination we have with Apple is attributed to the very opaque way of how they conduct business. Misinformation would not be out of the question.

But, I think that a delay in the release of a new PowerMac architecture with all the fixings will anger many loyal MacAddicts. Perhaps, if the CNet article rings true, many of us will lose some faith in Apple. I know I will. I will even consider dropping money on a dream PC that would tear apart the dual 1 Ghz g4 PowerMac out of spite.

I am keeping faith until the keynote. This is almost a do or die situation for Apple in terms of appeasing its power users.

Kudos to Steve for disemminating false information(I hope.)

job
Jul 9, 2002, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by TyleRomeo
this supports my Display conclusion that new Power Macs wont happen until after august 12th and will come with Jaguar included. Apple has to get rid of its current PowerMacs that just arent selling as well as they should be by offering huge rebates on the monitors. Hey maybe by then Firewire 2 and USB 2 or even a new Superdrive will be included in the new PowerMacs

Sounds about right. This is the most level headed comment I've read about the subject. Instead of screaming about 1.4Ghz this and DDR-RAM that, just wait one more month. It's not going to kill anyone. :rolleyes:

sjs
Jul 9, 2002, 11:27 PM
At the annual shareholder's meeting Steve answered a question about processors. He said he is very excited about what's coming this year. That was several months ago and the only proc progress was the G3 in the iBook.

Whether it happens next week or next month, I thoroughly believe the PM will get seriously upgraded.

And I am in total agreement about the need for 17" iMac at 1ghz. Its what I would buy and its what "switchers" would like.

MrEFord
Jul 9, 2002, 11:37 PM
The reason why there will be no upgrades to the "G4s".....

.....because G5s shall come!

Yes, we must all pray.

-E

Q-bert
Jul 9, 2002, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by 3rdpath
the more i think about this the more i think it could be true...

WHY?

because its about as stupid a move as apple could make....

i love this quote from the article: [ As one dealer put it, "Professional system sales have slowed to a trickle. They've got to clear stock before they rollout new models. That's how bad it is." ]

so by all means, keep trying to sell the old stuff...

and a new larger screen for the imac...c'mon, every report says they're not selling that well since the original hoopla wore off...who thinks a larger screen is gonna impress the consumer market?

someone send them some first year college business and marketing books...and do it quickly.:rolleyes: I agree with most everyone here, this is very disappointing news if true. I was waiting to upgrade some of our PowerMac systems after a potential MWNY announcement (against my better judgement, I was getting excited about potential hype - never again). However...

Regarding the above poster, PLEASE don't consider running a business anytime soon. If you ran a company with no concern about excess inventory control, I'd feel very sorry for your employees, since they'd all be out of jobs very quickly.

Here's some Business 101 for you - you do NOT introduce new models until you have sufficiently low stock of existing models, otherwise you have a glut of inventory that is practically impossible to get rid of. So while I'm not happy that I'll have to wait longer for a new PowerMac, I'm happy that Apple is at least attempting to run like a business that cares about staying in business. Even if they can't sell all of the old stuff (which is clear they won't), every bit towards removing old inventory helps. Sometimes suppliers will buy back inventory depending on the quantity, so reducing is ALWAYS a good idea from a business standpoint, no matter how disappointing it may be to rumor sites.

So yeah, it sucks, but on the other hand - suck it up and wait, if the August rumor is true. It's not the end of the world either way.

Arcady
Jul 9, 2002, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Marianco
When Apple transitioned from the Quadra 660AV with 25 MHz 68030 to the 132 MHz PowerPC 604 in 1996, that was a huge EIGHT times jump in speed.

The 660AV came out in 1993, not 1996. The fastest Quadra was 40MHz, and the following Powermac series fastest speed was 80MHz. A 2x jump in CPU speed (without a bus speed increase - the 8100/80 still had a 40MHz bus.)

Your eight times jump in speed took place over 3 years. What was Apple shipping 3 years ago? A G3/400 or something?

shadowfax0
Jul 9, 2002, 11:54 PM
Ok, let's put the pieces together (yay, a puzzle!)

A) New rebate thing good until (end of?) August

B) Steve is 'excited' about processor development

C) CNet and all them say 'No new PowerMacs @ Expo"

- Ok, I think, due to all of this, (and alot of this is based on the 'Steve is excited' statement) He will introduce the Gx, which I have good reason to believe that it will be the G5 (The G5 has BEEN OUT for over a year people, just hasn't been used in desktops...) then he will say that they will start shipping in August sometime (for any nay-sayers, was the Xserve immediately available upon announcement...?) So this would coincide with the whole rebate AND not having powermacs physically *at* the expo. Think about it, their informant could have been one tricky fellow, one simple word like 'at' can make a huge difference! You are all taking it to mean the announcement will not be there, I take it as the powermacs are not PHYSICALLY going to being there, nice little monkey wrench in the gears there :P

DannyZR2
Jul 9, 2002, 11:57 PM
If they do a 17" iMac then surely they'd up the CPU as well in the high end model, just lke they did when they introduced the new iBook 14"

However, Where can they go? They already have 800 Mhz! and the TOP line Powermac is 1Ghz! then a 933!

If they increase the iMac, it'd look to close to the Powermac.. or even HIGHER than where the PM is at already.. they coudln't do a 1ghz.. although I'd LOVE That, but unless they up the PM's at the same time.. I don't see it.


If the 17" iMac had a video OUT so I could add a monitor or an INput so I could share the monitor with another tower, I'd buy. But I want 17" and 1Ghz!

JINX
Jul 9, 2002, 11:58 PM
Hey folks - I don't think this is so crazy from a business perspective for Apple. A lot of the potential consumer market this time of year is parents buying their kids a computer for college. The truth is that the current imac and the emac are too close to each other and the even though the emac is an "education" computer Apple really wants dorm rooms full of attention getting imacs to make the pc'ers drool. The 17" imac will differentiate it from the emac.

As for everyone hear who is disappointed that there probably will be no tower updates, it shouldn't be too big of a deal because we will probably still get our machines exactly when we would have otherwise - they just won't be announced early. Again, this makes good sense for Apple because they need to clear inventory. Now those of us who read MacRumors everyday know there's an update around the bend, whether its announced at MW or not, but the average computer buyer probably doesn't. And to those folks the rebate probably sounds pretty good. Back when I was more rational about my computer purchases, I always used to buy last generation apple equipment when the rebates came. But once I knew the new hardware was announced, I couldn't buy the old stuff anymore. Its really just psychological, but its powerful. So this will let a lot of folks get a good deal without making them conflicted over $$ vs. power.

And those of us who read MacRumors everyday are going to buy the new 1.4GHz whenever they are announced, so Steve really doesn't have to worry about frustrating us. He doesn't really need to cater to us at all to keep our business and so from a business point of view he shouldn't. I'd like to buy a dual 1.4GHz in two weeks as much as the next person, but I think Apple's motives here make a lot of sense.

-JINX

jrbohorquezg
Jul 10, 2002, 12:15 AM
This has to be one of those completely misleading leaks that Apple intentionaly lets loose. Remember what happened right before the iPod came out... we even had "pictures" of what it would look like, and it was anything but the real thing.

copperpipe
Jul 10, 2002, 12:19 AM
...got hung by a crowd like this. Man oh man, everyone COOOOOL OUT. First, Apple recently made available the 1 ghz upgrade card available to outdated Powermacs. This means they are coming out with a substantial upgrade soon. A redesigned motherboard, that requires a new case, and uses DDR is gonna be SMOKIN!!! I bet my mom (and she makes good cake) that when these new powermacs come out they will not disappoint. They will bring apple in benchmarks across the board to be equivalent or surpassing (in that hard to average out way) to the latest p4's etc...So what if they take another month to do it? Better that and doing it right than listening to everyone here WHINE and putting out something with glitches, right? I dunno about you people, but when i plan to spend 3,000 smackers on a system, i'm willing to wait a month to get a butt-rocking, er, kicking, system with undoubtedly the finest operating system on the planet. STATE of the ART my friends. And for all you impatient freaks out there who just can't wiat, go buy your pcs, and we'll see who's getting headaches once a month for the next two years working on an inferior operating system on a slower machine...

whew...i feel much better now....

jrbohorquezg
Jul 10, 2002, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by tjwett
this is the kind of news that makes me mad in many ways. if it's true, it shows a pathetic move on Apple's part. potential converts have never been so interested in the Mac as now. if they don't come up with some competitive hardware soon they can kiss the "switch" thing goodbye. and if it's not true, and this is just Apple sending out ************* rumors to create a smokescreen then that makes me mad too. plus, i was just getting ready to dump a ton of money on a serious new studio power system and if i have to wait any longer i'll be screwed, and thus, very mad. i'll be at MWNY, and if i wait all day for a new PowerMac and Steve says "oh, one more thing..." and pulls out a digital picture frame, i'll never buy a Mac again.

Completely agree with you...

Ouroboros
Jul 10, 2002, 12:33 AM
Unfortunately, while I understand Apple's business practices with this move, this creates ENORMOUS pressure now for their towers to be nothing less than earth shattering. And, this will probably cripple the potential for what the imac could be.
Why release a 1ghz imac with a 17" when there is a tired out 800mhz SUPER TOWER still hobbling around waiting to be bought? I think that the imacs will be 933mhz tops, IF they even get a speed boost. So when the new towers ever come out, unless the blow away the professional crowd, there will be people leaving I feel.

MOM
Jul 10, 2002, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by shadowfax0
Ok, let's put the pieces together (yay, a puzzle!)

A) New rebate thing good until (end of?) August

B) Steve is 'excited' about processor development

C) CNet and all them say 'No new PowerMacs @ Expo"

- Ok, I think, due to all of this, (and alot of this is based on the 'Steve is excited' statement) He will introduce the Gx, which I have good reason to believe that it will be the G5 (The G5 has BEEN OUT for over a year people, just hasn't been used in desktops...) then he will say that they will start shipping in August sometime (for any nay-sayers, was the Xserve immediately available upon announcement...?) So this would coincide with the whole rebate AND not having powermacs physically *at* the expo. Think about it, their informant could have been one tricky fellow, one simple word like 'at' can make a huge difference! You are all taking it to mean the announcement will not be there, I take it as the powermacs are not PHYSICALLY going to being there, nice little monkey wrench in the gears there :P

Furthermore, if steve let the rumor out to TS/Cnet, then over the next few days people who need a new PM asap may say, 'well I can't wait until Aug/Sep, so I'll buy now.' I don't know how much extra cahnnel this would clear, but the leaked rumor could help reduce channel and let them still have an exciting show.

MOM

goglamosh
Jul 10, 2002, 01:04 AM
as a PC user who wants to get rid of Windoze and move to an awesome PowerMac, this rumor dissapoints me. i have been waiting for a DDR PowerMac for a long time. i am so ready to get rid of this PC, i can hardly wait to get a PowerMac. this rumor definitely makes me want to buy a current PowerMac, and just forget about waiting to buy a newer one.

i have no clue what to do. i want a DDR based PowerMac so bad, but I don't know if i can wait any longer. what to do... what to do...

iamspooky
Jul 10, 2002, 01:21 AM
"In a New York Minute.....everything can change......"

DannyZR2
Jul 10, 2002, 01:23 AM
I'm just getting sick of these rumor sites.. it makes me mad reading this stuff. To hear that there will be new PMs and no iMac upgrades.. so I say to myself.. okay I'll get a new dual PM..when I'd love a 17" iMac.. but then I hear no PM's at all yet and now 17" imacs.... so I have to change my plans and all..

Basically I think ALL of these sites have absolutely NO IDEA what they are talking about. It's just good traffic to the site to click on the banners and make them money!

MacRumors.com is just a compilation of all the other sites.. they never come up with their own sources (rarely) rather simply browse around and provide us the service of getting all the info from the other sites in one place. That's why I like this site, but also dislike it...


the other sites, Thinksecret, MOSR, Spymac, CNEt (now) all have absolutely no idea wha'ts gonna happen, but they see all the geeks like me running around clicking on everything we see that says Mac on it.. so they get money..

it's kinda fun to read sometime, but we all get all hyped up and when the announcements that we wait for finally come, we are pissed because of our blown up dreams.... it happens every time.....

I always come away from my quicktime stream of the Expos VERY excited and ready to buy, but then come here to get the opinions of the Forums of the new products and everyone is disappointd so I second guess myself and apple's products.. and don't wind up getting ANYTHING... makes me mad that I do this, but I'm sure other would say the same.

I think we hurt ourselves and APPLE moer than we think by doing this.... perhaps that's why Apple's been dishing out knocks to all the rumor sites....

so.. if I can.. I am gonna see what happens and never look at these sites again (until I buy) so that I can't change my mind and be "talked out" of getting the new machine... cause I need one bad! -- and I encourage you all to do the same.. if you like what you see, then be willing to make the move without reading everyon else's "disapprovals" of no G5, or 2ghz chip or 400mhz DDR or whatever else comes up.. Go with your instincts, as I will try to as well.

igordi
Jul 10, 2002, 02:09 AM
I remember this time last year reading a million rumors about the flat-panel iMac coming out for sure at the MWNY expo. I had an old 333 iMac at the time and thought I would die if I didn't get a new flat-panel. Well, it didn't come out. What they did release was a 500mhz Snow with a CDRW in the low-end. I ended up getting that instead because I couldn't wait any longer. Looking back on it now, I think I made the right move. I sold my old one to a friend for a great price and put that money towards the new one. When the flat-panel finally did come out I loved the look of it but the price was just too high I think, for me that is, and the difference in screen space wasn't all that much.

I just don't get it when everyone says that the G3 can't run Photoshop or OSX very well. I'm a Graphic Designer and work all day at the office on a 500mhz G4 with a 21" screen. I must say that I don't hate coming home to my little iMac at all. I am currently running OS 10.1.5 and using both Illustrator 10 and Photoshop 7 (as well as a ton of other stuff) all on my iMac and it's really not that bad. In fact, it's even faster than my G4 at certain things. I get excited just like you guys at the idea of a 1Ghz 17" iMac but I don't NEED it.

Isn't part of the reason that we all love Macs the fact that even the older ones still kick ass compared to PC's?

3rdpath
Jul 10, 2002, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by Q-bert
Regarding the above poster, PLEASE don't consider running a business anytime soon. If you ran a company with no concern about excess inventory control, I'd feel very sorry for your employees, since they'd all be out of jobs very quickly.

Here's some Business 101 for you - you do NOT introduce new models until you have sufficiently low stock of existing models, otherwise you have a glut of inventory that is practically impossible to get rid of. So while I'm not happy that I'll have to wait longer for a new PowerMac, I'm happy that Apple is at least attempting to run like a business that cares about staying in business. Even if they can't sell all of the old stuff (which is clear they won't), every bit towards removing old inventory helps. Sometimes suppliers will buy back inventory depending on the quantity, so reducing is ALWAYS a good idea from a business standpoint, no matter how disappointing it may be to rumor sites.


normally i don't respond to such sophomoric posts but dude get your head out of your buttcrack...

there are many ways to deal with excess inventory including :
deep discounts( sell them at a loss as refurbished units...)
school donations(tax write-off)
employee incentives( possible write-off)
strip em down for parts
move them out to remote foreign markets
trash em ( companies do this all the time )

do you really think that if apple doesn't sell every last one of their current G4's they're gonna be in trouble and " all of their employees would be out of jobs very quickly".... read their balance sheet sometime...geeez. i get so tired of the "**** and jane" first grade business mentality.

here's a clue for ya: apple doesn't control the market-the users do. you sell what the consumer wants when they want it---or they go elsewhere or they allocate their capital for other assets-either way you lose the sale.

stick to your lemonade stand...you're way out of your league here.

agoldweber
Jul 10, 2002, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by Marianco
I will not buy the Dual 1GHz G4 model because it is only twice as fast as the ORIGINAL single 500 Mhz G4 which debuted in August 1999, fully 3 years ago. All you have to do is look at Apple's own specs using Final Cut Pro!!!


actually, their site says the Dual 1 Ghz is 134% faster (http://www.apple.com/powermac/processor.html). that extra 34% is a big deal when dealing with gigundo graphics and vid files.

but I'm not looking to pick a fight. new releases without DDR would be real disappointing. no new release at all would be almost frightening.

with each stumble they need catch up time. too many and marketshare may fall, fall, fall.

spore
Jul 10, 2002, 03:00 AM
Well, seeing as how Apple (read uncle Steve) has a policy of refusing to provide press passes to any site or publication that has rumors or even mentions or links to sites that do, I reckon that CNet should lose theirs, right?

I do so desperately hope that SOMEONE will bring up a very nasty lawsuit over this if they don't! I think someone (read uncle Steve) really needs their big, fat (even if black is so very slimming), middle-aged and balding head deflated chez Apple.

Keep up the good work!

Nebrie
Jul 10, 2002, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by adamschneids
Rumors huh? I guess this means CNet will be denied Expo press access, huh?

Yeah right!

Double standard???

Adam

If you read the eWeek article, they probably did, but unlike all those other sites out there, nothing will happen to CNet because it has real lawyers.

ddtlm
Jul 10, 2002, 03:23 AM
3rdpath:

If Q-bert's post is sophmoric, what does does that make yours? (Hint: something worse.)

Grokgod
Jul 10, 2002, 03:50 AM
There are a lot of interesting posts here~

Danny, yours really is unique.
I don't understand how you got your conclusions, they seem very strange to me.
You dont have to go to a Rumor site to know or understand that DDRam has to come out, and to buy anything else without it is just plain stupid.

You can look at all the other computers in the world with DDRam and know that MACs are lacking without it!
I would hope that you dont need a rumor site to figure that out.

At the prices of APPLE computers they DAMN well better have DDRAM or they can forget about getting my money!

I have a Ti and an iMac and want a PRO machine.
But a Pro machine NEEDS PRO hardware.

APPLE went to ask video editors what they want in a machine.
I dont think that any of them want over 2 year old hardware!

If there are NO new PowerMacs this time around, it will hurt APPLE far more than throwing away all the useless stock they have in warehouses.

APPLE should have come out with improved hardware, ages ago! !

But they milked the old tech for premium profits.

APPLE is going to greedy themselves into the poor house.
The lackof sales on the 1 gig PowerMacs, is a message from the people.

APPLE get it together, get the hardware together, get the OS together!
We are NOT paying these prices for this old slow technology.

Its a RIP OFF , pure and simple. Its obvious everyone knows it.

If you can't keep up, you WILL be thrown out of the race.

agp
Jul 10, 2002, 04:13 AM
I would be inclined to think the G4 update will happen in August.

The new G4 Quicksilver last year was announced at the August expo, not the July Mac World.

As always there will be a slowdown in mac sales before the expo, I guess they are offering the discount to clear stock and increase revenue for this month as the expo approaches.

Also, if they were to announce the G4 in July and not ship until August who would go out and buy the discount machines after the release if for a small amount more you can get a new machine with DDR etc. in about 3 weeks time.

I reckon on iMac speed bumps and maybe some suprise, but G4's in August.

I am hoping for an iPod update to support AAC, though I don't expect it until MPEG 4 iTunes and QT6 have been released....probably when Jag arrives.

Maybe this expo we will see new revisions of iApps and consumer HW, in Aug we'll get Pro machine updates.

:)

Megaquad
Jul 10, 2002, 05:36 AM
Originally posted by sjs
At the annual shareholder's meeting Steve answered a question about processors. He said he is very excited about what's coming this year. That was several months ago and the only proc progress was the G3 in the iBook.

Whether it happens next week or next month, I thoroughly believe the PM will get seriously upgraded.

And I am in total agreement about the need for 17" iMac at 1ghz. Its what I would buy and its what "switchers" would like.
baahh..steve's always excited

redAPPLE
Jul 10, 2002, 05:40 AM
Does Apple have too much old G4s?

Why don't they sell the old G4s to schools, so the teachers, professors, principals could get used to the Macs.

They would get rid of the surplus, make free marketing and find new fans.

Jack Tenric
Jul 10, 2002, 07:11 AM
I've been waiting a long time for Apple to make the DDR switch. If they don't do so by MWNY or perhaps August I'm just gonna get myself a PC and sell my Mac. I'll still use the iBook though. PC laptops suck for battery life after all.

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by Jack Tenric
I've been waiting a long time for Apple to make the DDR switch. If they don't do so by MWNY or perhaps August I'm just gonna get myself a PC and sell my Mac. I'll still use the iBook though. PC laptops suck for battery life after all.

Read your own signature, man!!! Christ, you have a G4 733, 640 MB RAM, and a Radeon 8500. You sound like a spoiled child right now. I agree that Apple needs to get on the ball with the pro hardware, but is 1 month really too undearable to wait? I could understand the gripes coming from people stuck on Bondi iMacs, but not from someone with a steup like that.

Good god, people, we've waited this long. Can't we wait a little longer for the next big thing? I'm in the market too, folks. I'm stuck on a G4 450. You don't hear me complaining, though, and it's mostly because I've learned the cardinal lesson of Mac use: PATIENCE!!!!! The ne G4 will be here soon, guys. If it's as earth shattering as we're all making it out to be, then the next rev is going to be AWESOME no matter if it ships in July or August.

synergy
Jul 10, 2002, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by spore
Well, seeing as how Apple (read uncle Steve) has a policy of refusing to provide press passes to any site or publication that has rumors or even mentions or links to sites that do, I reckon that CNet should lose theirs, right?

I do so desperately hope that SOMEONE will bring up a very nasty lawsuit over this if they don't! I think someone (read uncle Steve) really needs their big, fat (even if black is so very slimming), middle-aged and balding head deflated chez Apple.

Keep up the good work!

You so desperately need to take a step back and breathe.
Lawsuit over what? Denying someone a press pass? That will be the day. Yeah our court system is a laughing stock, but that case will be laughed out as well.
Stop getting worked up over something that does not affect most of us anyway.

synergy
Jul 10, 2002, 08:26 AM
Is everyone done with their Tuesday morning quarterbacking?

My turn.
Yes they introduced a rebate promo which combines Powermacs and the LCD displays. You see this is a rebate pretty much on the displays and not the towers. Apple ran their tower rebates which just ended. If new towers are released they could transition the rebate thing to the new towers quite easily. Ever think it may be a discontiuation of the displays Apple is doing this for? Maybe a redesigned display is coming out.

Even if not, we all know new powermacs are in the chain. Maybe august, that is fine. I do agree though with people who say if its not at least 1.4Ghz it ain't worth it. I have a G4 400 and if it does not have 1.4Ghz speeds and DDR it won't be worth it for me to upgrade. What will be worth it is a 800Mhz or 1Ghz G4 upgrade processor.

I do agree with others as well that Apple should discount the existing towers to help move inventory. There are always those bargain hunters who sit on the sideline saying yeah I want a new tower and I want it now. But cut a number of dollars of the towers price and they say forget it, I'll buy a tower now and make do. Apple rarely is willing to trim prices on their computers which I think is not a very good policy. Discount the old stuff and maybe just maybe one of the PC lamers might pick one up as a second machine. At worst they sells it to someone who wants it. At best he becomes a convert based on that. Especially in a slumping economy you need to discount older merchandise to get it to move. CompUSA's in my area are still sitting on Graphite G4 towers and worse a graphite iBook! WTF is that, give the some slack in cutting that price.
There will be your cry babies over price, but thats just too bad. The computer industry works that way. Dell cuts prices by the hour.

For the whiners, if you are not happy and want to jump on the dream PC system. Have fun. Don't create threads over here and other mac sites about it though. Shut up and buy it. We don't want to hear your diatribes on why you left. You left, good for you.

And all those with the Steve are you listening (reading) posts, let me tell you he is not listening or reading the tuesday morning quarterbacks. Yeah being a control freak and all means he has no time for this BS over here. You are chatting amongst a community here. Not some pulpit with Steve Jobs as an audience. Get over it. You don't like it, go back to the PC thing. Buy it and forget the mac.
Ranting and raving won't teach Apple anything. Not buying their products will force them to learn the hard way. Thats the way things work.


:) :) :)

gopher
Jul 10, 2002, 08:42 AM
But I believe this rumor to be true. The rebate is true. The last rebate like this showed exactly when the next towers would be released. And for those holding out on buying a Mac until the next G4 is released, get a Flat Panel iMac already. It supports:

3 USB ports on the back, 2 Firewire ports (that's 65 400 Mbps hard drives, cameras, scanners per port), 10/100 ethernet, 56k modem, SVGA for mirroring to external display, Plaintalk microphone, headphone style output and pro speaker output as well as internal speakers in the dome. AT $1899 new which may go down in Macworld, it includes a DVD burner which no other PC does at that price range, and it includes a very nice 60 GB hard drive. Honestly, I don't know why people complain they can't get their towers, when the Flat Panel iMac already supports up to 1 GB of RAM. Who really needs more? I have this iMac and it is the best thing Apple has ever done, the best thing any computer company has ever done.

Mr. Anderson
Jul 10, 2002, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by gopher
Honestly, I don't know why people complain they can't get their towers, when the Flat Panel iMac already supports up to 1 GB of RAM. Who really needs more? I have this iMac and it is the best thing Apple has ever done, the best thing any computer company has ever done.

You shouldn't really make generalizations like that, because no matter what, someone will always need more of something, regardless. They might not be *every* user, but they're out there. I can come up with several scenarios that could need more than 1 GB of RAM.

Over all, Apple machines are great, but they are slacking in a lot of ways. To not come out with a new G4 next week and put it off until August won't help them, period. And if they have a new case design, which seems to be the general consensus, to not use MWNY as a vehicle to present it goes against almost everything Apple has done before.

I *really* want to see a new enclosure, faster memory/bus, etc. this month, even though I'm not going to buy one till next year, its just that Apple is still playing catchup with the Wintel world and we can't afford to let the gap widen.

D

AngusB
Jul 10, 2002, 09:28 AM
Of Course the powermacs are showing a 10 day wait on shipping right now...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................

theaz
Jul 10, 2002, 09:46 AM
If Apple is planning not to release the updated G4 as expected, then they must have something pretty crazy up their sleeve to woo the masses. Calculated risk assessment. Certainly an expanded iMac won't be enough. I reckon that they'd need something way more revolutionary than another iPod-type digital device too

Mr. Anderson
Jul 10, 2002, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by AngusB
Of Course the powermacs are showing a 10 day wait on shipping right now...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................

That's all I need to hear to know that we'll be getting new G4s next week.....so much for the rumor.

Now here's a thought, Apple was specifically trying to subdue the rumors, right - there was an article on that. So what's to stop them from counter-rumor proliferation by sending out incorrect info, like no new G4s and a 17" LCD iMac?

Last expo, MWSF 02, they went with the 'hype', now they're just trying to mislead us so it more of a surprise. Craziness.

nickgold
Jul 10, 2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by AngusB
Of Course the powermacs are showing a 10 day wait on shipping right now...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................

This is a huge point that, while not definitive, makes a good argument toward there being new towers at MWNY. If there is truly a glut in towers right now, in fact, lots sitting around that can't be sold --- why would it take 10 days to ship the base configurations? It simply doesn't make sense.

However, nor does it make sense that the current promo lasts into August. I might be mistaken, but Apple tends to not announce new hardware while a promo is currently going on.

Everything other than the above two points is utter speculation, which almost always turns out to be wrong. Especially considering two reports, 180 degrees from each other, appear to be circulating around throught he rumor mill. We know they can't BOTH be true.

So I say: If we can figure out how to make sense of the two points I mentioned above (and of course others have mentioned as well), we might be able to figure out what's happening here. Because it doesn't appear to make a whole lot fo sense.

Simply going on about the doom and gloom of Apple is a waste of time, if you ask me. Personally, I don't understand why people get so worked up over this stuff -- I myself am on a G4 450 Sawtooth, and frankly, it suits the needs of myself and my girlfriend fine. She does tons of video and Photoshop, I am more on the audio side. More speed would be nice, but it's certainly not necessary. And this is a 3 year old machine, if my spacetime memory is serving me right. I think some people here need to get a reality check.

Another point: I think some of the alleged power-users here should consider the Xserve for their CPU needs. With the firewire, PCI and AGP expansion on that thing, it would work really well in a bunch of creative fields, as well as server environments.

Skandranon
Jul 10, 2002, 10:14 AM
Hit it up fellas. These are dark times, alright.

Apple to give iMac a face-lift. (http://www.msnbc.com/news/778239.asp)

:eek: :confused: :(

trodel_post
Jul 10, 2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by Skandranon
Hit it up fellas. These are dark times, alright.

Apple to give iMac a face-lift. (http://www.msnbc.com/news/778239.asp)

:eek: :confused: :(


If you look closely, it's exactly the same article as the CNET article, written by the same person, etc.

MSNBC is just spreading the same rumors as CNET; this is nothing new.

ImAlwaysRight
Jul 10, 2002, 10:33 AM
The Apple store is shipping any G4 in 1-3 days, be it stock configuration or custom. THE ONLY configuration that has a 10 day waiting period is one with a GeForce4 Ti video card. So... looks like we *MAY* be stuck with these old G4's for another month. I find it hard to believe that Apple would not use MWNY as a place to showplace its new towers, so I'm still holding out for new towers. I've got my old G4 on ebay right now, so it'll suck if I have to go over a month with no computer at home. Even if new towers ARE announced, it still may be mid-late August before it actually arrives.

Phase IV
Jul 10, 2002, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by shadowfax0
Ok, let's put the pieces together (yay, a puzzle!)

A) New rebate thing good until (end of?) August

B) Steve is 'excited' about processor development

C) CNet and all them say 'No new PowerMacs @ Expo"

- Ok, I think, due to all of this, (and alot of this is based on the 'Steve is excited' statement) He will introduce the Gx, which I have good reason to believe that it will be the G5 (The G5 has BEEN OUT for over a year people, just hasn't been used in desktops...) then he will say that they will start shipping in August sometime (for any nay-sayers, was the Xserve immediately available upon announcement...?)


This makes perfect sense!

Apple has been playing the "switch" ads for a while now, but which system do they want people to switch to?

The rebate offer is for PowerMac G4s.


Ergo, there will be G5s announced in a week to convert even the last PC users!

ImAlwaysRight
Jul 10, 2002, 10:37 AM
sorry for the double post, I am a newbie....and for some reason it won't let me delete this second post...

rugby
Jul 10, 2002, 10:38 AM
3 things:

1) I went to apple's online store and the G4s have a 1-3 day wait
2) The rebates are on the MONITORS, not the towers. Apple may have need to sell all the old monitors because new ones are coming out.
3) I hope Apple doesn't take too long to introduce new towers because I can get payroll deduction on purchases up to the end of August. I would like to get a nice tower and monitor but won't get this year's stuff. I'll probably get a 17" iMac if they come out.

iH8Quark
Jul 10, 2002, 10:42 AM
-------------
“If they can do multimedia services, that’s spot on,” Duboise said. “Multimedia is the driving force behind replacement buyers.”
-------------

Well, this IS accurate. But it's PRO USERS who author this stuff. And we're getting screwed. The factor holding up the sales of the new iMac is a abyssmally slow bus and RAM speed. And the fact that it got some bad reviews because IE is so slow on the Mac OS. Apple needs to put up-to-date technology in their machines, not 5 year old crap with a rediculously high price tag.

No new towers is suicidal. If you have AAPL stock, sell now.

There's only one thing I can think of. There's no "rumors" sites allowed at the expo, and there's no new towers. I can only hope that Apple is going to preview the G5 to the press and analysts, and they don't want any leaks. This is the only thing I can figure. The NEED to do this to keep the analysts from predicting certain death for the company. So, this COULD mean tht the G5 is just around the corner.

If not, this is a giant pneumatic bolt gun to the skull of Apple Computer. :rolleyes:

Just absurd.

trodel_post
Jul 10, 2002, 11:03 AM
Let's all keep in mind that on the same day that the TS/CNET rumor was published, another reputable rumor site, Railhead Design (http://www.railheaddesign.com) came out with a completely opposite rumor.

TS was the source of the CNET article (which was the source of the MSNBC article). TS has been wrong before, as has CNET. If CNET had chosen to listen to a different rumor site, they would be reporting that all-new G4s are coming out with DDR RAM and 1.4Ghz.

G5? I kind of think not. If G5 was so imminent, why would they have released the G4 XServe only a few months before?

No one knows the real truth, so don't let these silly rumors get you all depressed. (I know, it's hard...)

germanknee
Jul 10, 2002, 11:54 AM
mid august is ok for me, as long as they're dual 1.4ghz with ddr and a faster bus. if they're bumped to 1.2ghz with the same memory and bus, i'll be upset. i still think we'll see them at this MW, though. here's hoping.

QuiteSure
Jul 10, 2002, 11:59 AM
Anyone hoping that the C/net MSNBC stories may be untrue is deluding themselves. C/net is not Spymac. I would imagine that Apple wants to give a heads up to the industry so that people will not wait to buy towers ahead of MWNY announcements. There is a special through August 12. If you need to buy, buy now.

A 17" LCD iMac with a superdrive and 933 mhz for less than $2,000 would absolutely rock. As stated earlier in the thread, there is no reason for a consumer to buy a 15" LCD iMac when they can by an eMac with a 17" CRT monitor for $1100. Apple must do something to create a difference between the eMac and the iMac. This is it.

It will be OK. We're in the midst of a drastic tech sector downturn. Apple will survive, and even thrive. The towers will be out in August, 6 months after they were refreshed in February. Jaguar will be great. MWNY will be fun, with dozens of new product announcements.

Don't worry; be happy:D

sparkleytone
Jul 10, 2002, 12:07 PM
QuiteSure is right in my opinion. Apple is the only company that has a really optimistic future. Dell is gaining market share, but at the cost of their margin and quality. Dell can afford to wage price wars with the other PC manufacturers. That's not what Apple is about. Its exactly what Steve Jobs said at MWSF. They are going to get through this by innovating. That costs plenty of money to do, but it is worth it. Don't worry about not getting all the ridiculous rumors at the MacWorld. What we will get will no doubt be good enough for 90% of people. Its stupidity to build it up and be disappointed. This happened at SF and I'm sure it happened last year. Let's try something different and actually support Apple. What we have been doing is offering up wild expectations and becoming angry when our speculations turn out to be completely misfounded. What we are adhering to lately is the very definition of insanity. Let's try something different for a change.

daRAT
Jul 10, 2002, 12:13 PM
Here is a rumor generator, from Macworld.

http://www.lowendmac.com/lite/01/0730.html

:]

rice_web
Jul 10, 2002, 12:27 PM
I've been reading all of these posts, as well as keeping up on the Intel/AMD world quite a lot recently (eh, I have no life).

From what I gather, Intel is releasing a 2.6GHz and 2.8GHz version of the P4 in August. And, as most everyone knows, AMD is using a marketing strategy to keep sales high.

We also have RailHeadDesign.com's prediction of single 1GHz, Dual-1.2GHz, and Dual-1.4GHz.

Putting two and two together, I've come up with this:

- Intel releases 2.6GHz and 2.8GHz.
- Apple releases the PowerMac 2400 and the PowerMac 2800 in the same time frame.

Maybe this isn't about inventories (which aren't THAT high), but rather, delivering a punch to Intel. For AMD, the naming scheme has worked marvelously. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple use it, too.

job
Jul 10, 2002, 12:28 PM
I was just wondering about everyone who was complaining about the possible lack of any PM update this MW. Would it kill you to wait just one more month? Ugh.


Anyways : :D

TechKid
Jul 10, 2002, 12:33 PM
Everyone needs to realize that Motorola is the major player in getting out new PowerMacs. All Apple does is design the damn case. They couldn't put DDR in previous models beacause the stupid G4's didn't support any bus other than SDRAM. Two years after DDR is release, a G4 has finally been produced that does. You have to realize, although Apple is a big supporter of the G4, the big networking company's (i.e. CISCO) are the major buyers of the G4 chip. I think Apple should start threatening Motorola, like Intel and Microsoft do to their partners/clients.

Also, Apple should skip ATA133 and head straight for Serial ATA. Intel will have mobo's out by the end of the summer with it. This could give apple an early 'edge'.

Doesn't look like Motorola will have RapidIO support until the G5. Who knows when that'll be here. Intel's 3GIO will be here by early next year.

If Apple doesn't make some bold moves here SOON, they'll have no choice to port OSX to x86 and just become the software company they really are.

Megaquad
Jul 10, 2002, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by MrEFord
The reason why there will be no upgrades to the "G4s".....

.....because G5s shall come!

Yes, we must all pray.

-E
even if it comes out,it might not be fast as we all imagine it to be..

pgwalsh
Jul 10, 2002, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by iamspooky
"In a New York Minute.....everything can change......"

Ha ha ha! Just 7 more days and bamb!

Megaquad
Jul 10, 2002, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by trodel_post



If you look closely, it's exactly the same article as the CNET article, written by the same person, etc.

MSNBC is just spreading the same rumors as CNET; this is nothing new.
maybe this 17" imac is some kind of distraction rumor? remember iWalk

pgwalsh
Jul 10, 2002, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by hitman
I was just wondering about everyone who was complaining about the possible lack of any PM update this MW. Would it kill you to wait just one more month? Ugh.


It's killing me just waiting 7 days. I've already started digging a hole in my backyard and engraving my headstone. I don't know whether to call it death by Steve or Moto.

I've been waiting long enough. Let's see, since MYSF and before that.

However, I believe they're going to come out with something really good. They ignored us last time. I could care less aqbout a new case design, but a new bus and processor etc would be great.

TechKid
Jul 10, 2002, 01:05 PM
I don't doubt the 17" iMac at all. Digitimes reported back in May that Quanta (who makes the current iMac displays) signed a deal to produce 17" and 19" iMac displays. You can't get to the article anymore without being a paying member (**cking losers) but you can still do a search on their sight and see the headline. It reads

Quanta Computer will ship new 17 and 19-inch iMacs beginning in 3Q

and is dated May 31 2002

www.digitimes.com

qwerpafw
Jul 10, 2002, 01:13 PM
(The G5 has BEEN OUT for over a year people, just hasn't been used in desktops...)

No. The G5 has not come out yet. The MPC 8500, or whatever they call it, has. It is an embedded-use proc. No altivec. Very limited feature set. It is a step down from the 604, let alone the G3 or *gasp* the G4.

See, your problem is lack of knowledge. There are many people out there who are more knowledgable than you. These people work at Apple, Motorola, Microsoft, AMD, ATi, nVidia, Intel, and so on.

These are the people who make the decisions. And remember, they know more than you. They have also probably have had more education in the field. Plus, as an added incentive, in most cases their jobs depend on the decisions they make.

Okay, so Steve is somewhat temperamental. But you have no right to second guess a company's decisions unless you are a shareholder, and even then you shouldn't rumormonger.

Spreading totally false rumors only serves to disillusion people when those impossible predictions fail to come true.

Now, Apple may intro a new G4 model, and even go so far as to call it a G5. Apple may even put real DDR on their machines (unlike the XServe's arch, which is horribly crippled). Apple actually has to build their own Controllers, so even the Xserve's mobo was quite a feat. Dell, for example, does not build their own controller architecture. But Apple will not release a machine which uses the MPC 8500. They might release a network switch, ala cisco, which uses that moto part, but Apple has never been into building networking equipment.

I am an Apple shareholder. Fundamentally, I realise that Apple is currently in a bind. Intel has a 2.5Ghz P4 with a 533Mhz FSB. That is not only a heck of a lot faster than any current mac, but also offers a 5:1 proc:bus ratio. For comparison, the PowerMac G4 500, the last really competitive mac in terms of raw speed, had the same ratio. Apple needs DDR. Apple needs speed. Only Motorola can provide these two things.

Apple has tried to build their own solutions, as with the Xserve. It is very difficult to build a new motherboard architecture from scratch. Motorola refuses to make a DDR G4 solution, because it would be wasted research for them, as the G5 will have integrated DDR (of note: the G5 will likely be based on the MPC 8500, which has integraated DDR, therefore leading to my conclusion). So I huddle down and wait for motot to get their act together. Apple, however, seems to be doing quite nicely, aside from the usual high-margin issue of how much they feel they can get away with shafting their customers .

QuiteSure
Jul 10, 2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by TechKid
Digitimes reported back in May that Quanta (who makes the current iMac displays) signed a deal to produce 17" and 19" iMac displays.


I remember that headline. We all thought it was a misprint because Apple had just released the 15" iMac and wouldn't want to cannabalize its sales. I guess we were wrong.

But can the iMac stainless steel arm support a 19" display?:confused:

Grokgod
Jul 10, 2002, 01:16 PM
I can't wait for APPLE to do the next, most amazingly completely stupid throat cutting suicidal act. I think it amazing how Jobs manages to anger and isolate people that are dying to love him and his company.

You think its easy to take the near completely loyal and turn them into rabid traitors. It isnt, believe me!

So, hold on to the new PowerMacs, APPLE. While you try vainly to force old stock on people, allow all your AD work to go unrewarded because of bad timing.
Push the people that want to switch back into the WINTEL world with displays of boring MW's, poor hardware and FAR too high prices.

Insult everyone's intelligence!

Then reap your rewards, Jobs.

Apple loves to shoot itself in the head, they have done it SO many times already.
But this time there isnt going to be a resusitation.
NO, video pros to pump life back into the base.
No, graphics pros to drag your body back to the game.

Most have them have gone to the WINTEL world for speed and power.

Oh, your counting on the masses to shore up sales..ahahahahahahaha
Thats SO funny, the masses dont buy computers that cost $3000.

If this wasnt so pathetic, it would be hilarious!

SEND a message to APPLE, buy nothing that isnt worth it.

Q-bert
Jul 10, 2002, 01:31 PM
Lemonade stand? So very adult of you, you got me there... :rolleyes:

Not to start a flame war here (too late, I guess), but I was simply pointing out that you can't simply IGNORE excess inventory, which is what the original message I responded to was implying. I run a successful business, so I'm quite aware of the different techniques for clearing inventory, I don't need a lecture from the likes of you.

I NEVER said that Apple needed to sell every last one of their existing G4 systems or they'd be out of business, you just made that up. I DID say that anyone who runs a business with no concern about inventory management would go out of business very quickly, and that's true. And you seem to think that simply "trashing 'em" to introduce new models just to save a month of waiting for the MacAddicts, or wait for tax incentives derived from donating them is the smartest business choice! This, in a climate where computers aren't selling in general and Apple's stock is underperforming like crazy. Do you REALLY think that waiting a mere month to introduce new models is a WORSE choice than doing a month's worth of inventory clearance? Wow, perhaps my alleged "lemonade stand business logic" isn't such a bad business model. Face it - the readers here and on other rumor sites don't necessarily represent the majority of PowerMac purchasers. Even if the average MacRumors reader won't buy a current PowerMac because they're waiting for the G6 with 866MHz octa-pumped FSB with Firewire 3, specials and/or discounted pricing on existing stock for the more typical PowerMac customer may allow Apple to clear out enough inventory to make a month's wait worthwhile for all parties. Then they can introduce other models and pursue the other inventory clearance options that you so elegantly copied out of your high-school econ textbook for me.

I do agree with you that if inventory clearance is the goal and the CNet article is correct, then Apple should be more agressive with the discounts than just LCD monitor discounts. However, here's something from my buttcrack for you to chew on - I know for a FACT that Apple HAS been selling G4 towers to employees at deep discounts to clear inventory. Yet another option from your provided list. Still think they're complete idiots who don't know how to run a business?

But I let's get back to my fundamental point - I too agree with most posters here that Apple NEEDS to get faster systems out there very soon, the current PowerMacs are lagging big-time. What I disagree with are armchair CEOs encouraging Apple to make not-so-smart business decisions just to satisfy that lust we all have for new systems. Apple should get better and more powerful PowerMac systems out there, but it should not be at the expense of basic business logic.

pgwalsh
Jul 10, 2002, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by qwerpafw

See, your problem is lack of knowledge. There are many people out there who are more knowledgable than you. These people work at Apple, Motorola, Microsoft, AMD, ATi, nVidia, Intel, and so on.

These are the people who make the decisions. And remember, they know more than you. They have also probably have had more education in the field. Plus, as an added incentive, in most cases their jobs depend on the decisions they make. - Did something get lodged in your butt or do you always say things like this to people? I'm hoping your just being sarcastic. As this is all for fun.

Jack Tenric
Jul 10, 2002, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by wsteineker


Read your own signature, man!!! Christ, you have a G4 733, 640 MB RAM, and a Radeon 8500. You sound like a spoiled child right now. I agree that Apple needs to get on the ball with the pro hardware, but is 1 month really too undearable to wait? I could understand the gripes coming from people stuck on Bondi iMacs, but not from someone with a steup like that.

Good god, people, we've waited this long. Can't we wait a little longer for the next big thing? I'm in the market too, folks. I'm stuck on a G4 450. You don't hear me complaining, though, and it's mostly because I've learned the cardinal lesson of Mac use: PATIENCE!!!!! The ne G4 will be here soon, guys. If it's as earth shattering as we're all making it out to be, then the next rev is going to be AWESOME no matter if it ships in July or August.

First of all. I am not a spoiled child. I worked damn hard to get a Mac after years of saving without a job. When I got one finally, I was blown away by all but the speed. The G4 733 w/ Radeon 8500 runs games like crap. I need a machine with REAL speed. You obviously base your speed comparisions on a Mac vs Mac basis. Compared to the current batch of PCs, my 733 just doesn't cut it and neither does the DP 1GHz. The video drivers for the Mac Radeon 8500 need work. Games run slower than they did on my old GF2 MX. The new DDR Macs and 10.2 are what will help bring Apple back into the running again.

As to the learning patience bit. I have tons of patience but AMD had DDR RAM in '98. That goes beyond patience. Apple needs this upgrade quite badly if they want any level of respect in the computer community. I'm not complaining about 1 month. I have waited years for this.

TechKid
Jul 10, 2002, 01:44 PM
What buying season is upon us?? Back to school season! What do more students buy, a $3000 PowerMac or a $1500 iMac?? I think delaying the new PowerMacs to reduce inventory is a good idea business wise, but I agree with some people here who say the promotion isn't enough.

However, I think Apple is dropping the ball by not bringing out new iBooks and PowerBooks. Used to work for decent sized computer company and this time of year was when students were buying up notebooks like crazy. Guess they're counting on the new iMac to deliver.

rice_web
Jul 10, 2002, 01:50 PM
I've got a feeling that we'll see iBook and PowerBook updates in August along with the launch of new PowerMacs.

If the PowerMac does get boosted to 1.4GHz, the PowerBook could easily be pushed to 1GHz, which would allow the iBook to scale to 800MHz.

The portable line updates would be minimal, but could definitely increase sales for back-to-school.

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Jack Tenric
First of all. I am not a spoiled child. I worked damn hard to get a Mac after years of saving without a job. When I got one finally, I was blown away by all but the speed. The G4 733 w/ Radeon 8500 runs games like crap. I need a machine with REAL speed. You obviously base your speed comparisions on a Mac vs Mac basis. Compared to the current batch of PCs, my 733 just doesn't cut it and neither does the DP 1GHz. The video drivers for the Mac Radeon 8500 need work. Games run slower than they did on my old GF2 MX. The new DDR Macs and 10.2 are what will help bring Apple back into the running again.

As to the learning patience bit. I have tons of patience but AMD had DDR RAM in '98. That goes beyond patience. Apple needs this upgrade quite badly if they want any level of respect in the computer community. I'm not complaining about 1 month. I have waited years for this.

Alright newbie, you asked for it. Here we go!

First, I didn't call you a spoiled child, I said you sounded like one. Didn't your mother ever teach you the difference between acting like something and being something?

Second, don't blame video card problems, driver or otherwise, on Apple. ATI writes the Radeon drivers, not the good people in Cupertino. Get your facts straight.

Third, I honestly don't care HOW long you saved to buy your Mac. I too scrimped and saved to buy mine, as did a lot of other folks on this board. If you're looking for symathy here you've come to the wrong place. Quit playing the poor little me card. I'm not buying it.

Fourth, you're Godd*mn right I'm comparing Macs to Macs. Were we talking about llamas? Did I miss something? I don't give one half a ***** how fast my Mac runs compared to some other guys PC. I want my computer to do what it's supposed to do, and that's run well. I don't care how fast the new AMD or Intel chips are, they'll never support an OS that actually runs well! That's why you use Macs, right? Because they run well? Because of the Mac OS? Please tell me it's not because they match your interior decorating scheme a little better. I'm not saying speed doesn't matter. It does, especially if Apple wants people to switch. I'm just saying that you've already done that, so quit your b*tching and shut the hell up. You want a faster Mac? Great. Let me tell you a secret, my friend. WE ALL WANT A FASTER MAC!!! Get over yourself.

ddtlm
Jul 10, 2002, 02:33 PM
Jack Tenric:

"I have tons of patience but AMD had DDR RAM in '98."

Wrong. The first DDR chipset for AMD chips was the AMD 760, and it was first available for review to Anandtech (a prominent PC tech site) on October 30th, 2000. I'm pretty sure that the first DDR chipset for Intel was the VIA Apollo Pro 266, which Anandtech was able to review on January 18th, 2001.

The Apollo Pro 266 is particularly interesting because, like the Xserve chipset, it has a 133mhz FSB and a 133-DDR AKA 266mhz memory bus. I also believe it was VIA's first shot at a DDR chipset for any platform, so it may not be best-case. You can read about it here: http://www1.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1402

Jack Tenric
Jul 10, 2002, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by wsteineker


Alright newbie, you asked for it. Here we go!

First, I didn't call you a spoiled child, I said you sounded like one. Didn't your mother ever teach you the difference between acting like something and being something?

Second, don't blame video card problems, driver or otherwise, on Apple. ATI writes the Radeon drivers, not the good people in Cupertino. Get your facts straight.

Third, I honestly don't care HOW long you saved to buy your Mac. I too scrimped and saved to buy mine, as did a lot of other folks on this board. If you're looking for symathy here you've come to the wrong place. Quit playing the poor little me card. I'm not buying it.

Fourth, you're Godd*mn right I'm comparing Macs to Macs. Were we talking about llamas? Did I miss something? I don't give one half a ***** how fast my Mac runs compared to some other guys PC. I want my computer to do what it's supposed to do, and that's run well. I don't care how fast the new AMD or Intel chips are, they'll never support an OS that actually runs well! That's why you use Macs, right? Because they run well? Because of the Mac OS? Please tell me it's not because they match your interior decorating scheme a little better. I'm not saying speed doesn't matter. It does, especially if Apple wants people to switch. I'm just saying that you've already done that, so quit your b*tching and shut the hell up. You want a faster Mac? Great. Let me tell you a secret, my friend. WE ALL WANT A FASTER MAC!!! Get over yourself.

You are obviously not worth listening to if you are only interested in comparing only Mac vs Mac. You seem to be a Mac advocate. Good, so am I. I'm constantly recommending Mac to people. How can you convince people to switch? One way is to compare hardware to PCs. That's why Apple does the PhotoShop/Quake3 comparisions. PC to Mac comparisions matter, whether you like it or not.

"Third, I honestly don't care HOW long you saved to buy your Mac"

You obviously do or you wouldn't have replied to that.

"Quit playing the poor little me card. I'm not buying it."

I played no such card. I mearly stated how I purchased my system. You on the other hand have decided to attack me from the start. If you cannot post to a forum without acting more civilized then you really should not post at all. You said that I was acting spoiled, but this is not the case, when you consider that I was comparing Mac to PC. If I was comparing Mac to Mac then yes, I most certainly would be acting spoiled.

If you think that I'll never be satisfied with system speed then you are mistaken. I would be plenty happy with my old 66MHz system. There are lots of great old apps and games that run on it. I am hoping to run the current games well and if you even had any knowledge of the Mac gaming scene you would realize that Mac gaming performance is far behind the performance you get on the PC. These new systems from Apple should help level the playing field in this area somewhat. This is excellent news and while I can't wait too much longer, this is merely because I require a faster machine such as a DDR equipped system for some upcoming tasks that I will be doing.

"Second, don't blame video card problems, driver or otherwise, on Apple. ATI writes the Radeon drivers, not the good people in Cupertino. Get your facts straight."

Perhaps you should stop assuming what people know or think before you blame them. That's a nasty habbit that gets people in trouble. Seriously, I'm not insulting you by saying that. I am just saying that it's better to go with facts and not assume things. It's obvious that ATI does the drivers. I'm not blaming Apple for that. Nowhere was that stated. I was stating the general Apple situation for gaming. ATI just happens to be a piece of the puzzle, a factor to include if you will.

I could say that I hope you never get a better computer in your life but I'm not going to be like that. That's just wrong. It is my wish that you too will some day be able to enjoy a newer system. There's nothing like trying out a new computer for the first time.

Jack Tenric
Jul 10, 2002, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
Jack Tenric:

"I have tons of patience but AMD had DDR RAM in '98."

Wrong. The first DDR chipset for AMD chips was the AMD 760, and it was first available for review to Anandtech (a prominent PC tech site) on October 30th, 2000. I'm pretty sure that the first DDR chipset for Intel was the VIA Apollo Pro 266, which Anandtech was able to review on January 18th, 2001.

The Apollo Pro 266 is particularly interesting because, like the Xserve chipset, it has a 133mhz FSB and a 133-DDR AKA 266mhz memory bus. I also believe it was VIA's first shot at a DDR chipset for any platform, so it may not be best-case. You can read about it here: http://www1.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1402

Ah, good. Thanks for clearing that up. The page that I was getting that info from must have been full of crap then. Of course even so, we've been waiting a while for DDR. I appologize for the error.

qwerpafw
Jul 10, 2002, 02:53 PM
See, your problem is lack of knowledge. There are many people out there who are more knowledgable than you. These people work at Apple, Motorola, Microsoft, AMD, ATi, nVidia, Intel, and so on.

These are the people who make the decisions. And remember, they know more than you. They have also probably have had more education in the field. Plus, as an added incentive, in most cases their jobs depend on the decisions they make. - Did something get lodged in your butt or do you always say things like this to people? I'm hoping your just being sarcastic. As this is all for fun.
Great, an "ad hominem" attack.

You may not have picked this up from my post, but I am an Apple shareholder. As such, I elect the board of Apple. Those are the people I trust with my money. Jobs is one of them.

Apple and other tech companies have people who knoe more than you. This is fact. You may try to dispute it, but you would fall flat on your face. These people are the ones who make the decisions. I am perfectly willingt to trust their decisions. As a consumer, I sure wish Apple was going to come out with a 10Ghz G5 in a week. But I will not rabidly speculate on it. See, here's the thing: if people expect more than they 'get,' they will feel shafted. And unhappy potential customers are not people who earn money.

Ever wonder why Apple hates rumormongering so much? Look at Apple's stock prices in the attacked GIF from last year. See the giant drop right after Macworld? Can you guess why? Hint: rumors led people to expect better stuff than apple had. Even if you believe that rumors buoyed the stock up in the first place, the low right after macworld was a good bit lower than anything before it.

Thats my money, you see.


Oh, on another point, you didn't criticise my arguments. You just insulted me. I guess that means you can't find any flaws...

ddtlm
Jul 10, 2002, 03:02 PM
Jack Tenric:

wsteineker was being a bit of an ass wasn't he? Funny when the Macs start looking slow that the Macheads start flaming dissenters.

"I am hoping to run the current games well and if you even had any knowledge of the Mac gaming scene you would realize that Mac gaming performance is far behind the performance you get on the PC."

I have to agree with you here. I've never been impressed with the speed of any game on my G4 (dual 800). I'm thinking about getting a GF4TI for it; the GF2MX is a dog and OSX is a pig. 10.2 should be nice anyway.

(I might add that my Athlon 1.53 on PC133 with GF2TI-4200 absolutely flies in games.)

Jack Tenric
Jul 10, 2002, 03:02 PM
Wow another person getting personal attacked. These forums rock.

tjwett
Jul 10, 2002, 03:04 PM
maybe they are indeed clearing out the monitors and not so much the PowerMacs. don't all the monitors(other than the 23") still have a blue apple logo on them? i thought they would have changed to silver awhile ago to match the quicksilvers. maybe they are doing it now. just a thought.

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Jack Tenric
You are obviously not worth listening to if you are only interested in comparing only Mac vs Mac. You seem to be a Mac advocate. Good, so am I. I'm constantly recommending Mac to people. How can you convince people to switch? One way is to compare hardware to PCs. That's why Apple does the PhotoShop/Quake3 comparisions. PC to Mac comparisions matter, whether you like it or not.

You'll note that I didn't say that comparative speed wasn't important. In fact, I said it was a huge factor in getting people to switch. Hell, my favorite part of every MW keynote is Phil Schiler's Photoshop bake off. I just said that Mac to Mac comparison is key when discerning the importance of upgrades. As a loyal Apple user, I have no intention of running out to buy a Windows system, no matter how great its performance, gaming or otherwise. I, like most others, use Macs because they're reliable and easy to use. Hardware matters, but the OS is still the key selling point here.

"Third, I honestly don't care HOW long you saved to buy your Mac"

You obviously do or you wouldn't have written such a long retort.

"Quit playing the poor little me card. I'm not buying it."

I played no such card. I mearly stated how I purchased my system. You on the other hand have decided to attack me from the start. If you cannot post to a forum without acting more civilized then you really should not post at all. You said that I was acting spoiled, but this is not the case, when you consider that I was comparing Mac to PC. If I was comparing Mac to Mac then yes, I most certainly would be acting spoiled.

I think that if you check all of my posts, you'll find that they're fair, honest, and occasionally helpful. I do not, however, pretend to tolerate whiners very well. I think it's fair to say that your first post was more than a bit whiny, so I don't apologize for addressing it as it needed to be addressed. Listen to me or not, that's up to you. As for the Mac vs. Mac vs. Mac vs. PC issue, we'll meet in the middle and consider both. That way you're only acting half childish.

If you think that I'll never be satisfied with system speed then you are mistaken. I would be plenty happy with my old 66MHz system. There are lots of great old apps and games that run on it. I am hoping to run the current games well and if you even had any knowledge of the Mac gaming scene you would realize that Mac gaming performance is far behind the performance you get on the PC. These new systems from Apple should help level the playing field in this area somewhat. This is excellent news and while I can't wait too much longer, this is merely because I require a faster machine such as a DDR equipped system for some upcoming tasks that I will be doing.

I don't doubt that Mac gaming performance isn't up to far with the Wintel world. And I do have quite a bit of knowledge of the Mac gaming scene, as I'm a fairly active gamer who keeps up to date on both availability and performance via both personal gameplay and reviews/benchmarks. I'm just saying that if gaming is the sole reason you're on the Mac you've been sold a bill of goods. Get real about this one. Apple's sales, unlike many PC manufacturer's, aren't driven by the gaminng market. Their focus is on education/creatve pros/home users. All that and, until recently, they've been right at the top of the heap in terms of game performance.

"Second, don't blame video card problems, driver or otherwise, on Apple. ATI writes the Radeon drivers, not the good people in Cupertino. Get your facts straight."

Perhaps you should stop assuming what people know or think before you blame them. That's a nasty habbit that gets people in trouble. Seriously, I'm not insulting you by saying that. I am just saying that it's better to go with facts and not assume things. It's obvious that ATI does the drivers. I'm not blaming Apple for that. Nowhere was that stated. I was stating the general Apple situation for gaming. ATI just happens to be a piece of the puzzle, a factor to include if you will.

Speaking of assuming being a nasty habit, maybe you should give your post a look. I once heard a story about pots calling kettles black. You may not have blamed Apple directly for writing bad drivers, but you sure went out of your way to heap the lion's share of criticism on them for poor driver performance. I think it's fair to say that you inferred that it was somehow Apple's fault that your video card's performance was substandard. Again, I won't argue with you about the current state of Apple gaming, but it's not even remotely all their fault. Hardware develpers (ATI, NVidia), driver authors, game developers, and Apple all share the blame for this one. Don't single Apple out just because the problem show up while you're fragging on their machine.

I could say that I hope you never get a better computer in your life but I'm not going to be like that. That's just wrong. It is my wish that you too will some day be able to enjoy a newer system. There's nothing like trying out a new computer for the first time.

I, too, want a newer machine. The whole point of this is that if we can wait this long, what's one more damn month? Jesus man, think seriously here for a minute. Are those few extra dropped frames (if you even have any with that setup) going to kill you if you have to wait an extra month for the next big thing? Best of luck to you, Jack, and no offense, but get real.

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Jack Tenric
Wow another person getting personal attacked. These forums rock.

I caught my fair share of heat when I was a newbie. Just be careful not to go throwing facts out in a self righteous manner, especially if you haven't checked them first. Best of luck to you man. I hope things cool off for you and you find this place to be a nice home on the web. I know I have. :)

agoldweber
Jul 10, 2002, 03:10 PM
maybe it's because the US is 'at war'--uh, duh... no.

maybe it's because it's really, really hot (at least where I am)--uh, duh... no.

maybe it's because anger and lashing out is more fun--uh, huh... could be!

so many flaming posts towards one another and, more importantly, toward Apple.

I'm not saying we need to coddle Apple. they're a billion dollar company just like all the other billion dollar companies. if they could have been Microsoft and Jobs could have been Gates, you know what? they would have. so, they don't need our sympathy.

however, they don't need to be constantly bashed and insulted based on rumors! if they suck so bad, why are so many of you bothering to wait for anything? if they've let you down so many times in the past, why get hyped up on RUMORS? hell, why get so angry about reality?

to spew so much hatred towards people is really disturbing to read. I come hear for fun, speculation, and information, not to watch people beat the crap out of each other and Apple.

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
maybe they are indeed clearing out the monitors and not so much the PowerMacs. don't all the monitors(other than the 23") still have a blue apple logo on them? i thought they would have changed to silver awhile ago to match the quicksilvers. maybe they are doing it now. just a thought.

I know the 15" and 17" still have the pinstriped thing going on with the graphite Apple logo, and I'm pretty sure the 22" does too. I think you're right about the monitorrs getting a much needed refresh. Hopefully it'll be more than just a new case design, too. I'd love a little bit of that HD technology to trickle down to the low end for sharper display and higher resolution.

Jack Tenric
Jul 10, 2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by wsteineker
You may not have blamed Apple directly for writing bad drivers, but you sure went out of your way to heap the lion's share of criticism on them for poor driver performance. I think it's fair to say that you inferred that it was somehow Apple's fault that your video card's performance was substandard. Again, I won't argue with you about the current state of Apple gaming, but it's not even remotely all their fault. Hardware develpers (ATI, NVidia), driver authors, game developers, and Apple all share the blame for this one. Don't single Apple out just because the problem show up while you're fragging on their machine.

I never went out of my way to heap criticism on Apple for driver performance. I stated that the driver performance of the ATI Radeon 8500 for Mac sucked. I don't see where you made the leap that I was blaming Apple. They are not to be blamed for this at all.

"Hardware develpers (ATI, NVidia), driver authors, game developers, and Apple all share the blame for this one."

Uh... That's what I just said in my previous post.

By the way, I went to Apple because I was sick of Microsoft and their business practices. I knew that gaming wasn't quite as good at the moment on Macs but that's no reason not to strive for equality between the two in that area.

Apple is an awesome company but there is nothing wrong with trying to get them to move along a little faster and better. It's not like DDR just came out last month and I want it installed right away. It's been a year or so with two series of system revisions to the tower models.

"I caught my fair share of heat when I was a newbie. Just be careful not to go throwing facts out in a self righteous manner,"

Then you should have tried to learn from that and not act like they did to you. There was nothing self righteous about it, I was merely stating my experiences and hopes for Apple. Nothing more.

boobers
Jul 10, 2002, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by demars


Some of the other news is intriguing, especially the new monitors. One anomaly in the line as it exists right now is that, in my opinion, the iMac LCD is superior in quality to the stand-alone LCD monitors. The variation in brightness with extreme viewing angle is really amazing in the iMac, but I don't think the other LCDs from Apple have this property. I wonder if the new monitors will. Should be interesting to see what happens.

What? the iMac's screen has LESS viewing angle (both vertically and horizontally) and LESS contrast then the 17" display.
_________________________________
iMac's monitor

Typical viewing angle: 120 degrees horizontal; 90 degrees vertical
Typical brightness: 200 candela per meter squared
Typical contrast ratio: 300:1
_________________________________
17"(i have this one)

Viewing angle (typical)
160° horizontal; 160° vertical

Brightness (typical)
200 cd/m

Contrast ratio (typical)
350:1

i suspect the new 17" iMac monitor will have similar specs as the current model as this will help keep the price down.
Also with the swivel monitor on the iMac there is less need for a nice viewing angle.

However i find that colours are more true with the higher viewing angle. Get yer fax straight dude. The new (purported) screen is a much needed improvement over the current offering. Of course some larger resolutions are in order as well.

Ouroboros
Jul 10, 2002, 03:18 PM
Hey if you go to the apple store and pick one of the pre configured towers, the ship time is actually 1 -2 days.....

ddtlm
Jul 10, 2002, 03:20 PM
wsteineker:

"I'd love a little bit of that HD technology to trickle down to the low end for sharper display and higher resolution"

But I don't think Apple will do that. If the smaller monitors get higher res, then they eat into the sales of the bigger ones.

Jack Tenric:

"I stated that the driver performance of the ATI Radeon 8500 for Mac sucked."

I thought about getting an 8500 for a long time, but I didn't because it was ATI, and I've been happy with that decision as more and more of the truth comes out. (ATI sucks.)

boobers:

"What? the iMac's screen has LESS viewing angle (both vertically and horizontally) and LESS contrast then the 17" display."

I've come to believe the only way to evaluate an LCD is to look at it in person.

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Jack Tenric
I never went out of my way to heap criticism on Apple for driver performance. I stated that the driver performance of the ATI Radeon 8500 for Mac sucked. I don't see where you made the leap that I was blaming Apple. They are not to be blamed for this at all.

"Hardware develpers (ATI, NVidia), driver authors, game developers, and Apple all share the blame for this one."

Uh... That's what I just said in my previous post.

You said:

"The G4 733 w/ Radeon 8500 runs games like crap. I need a machine with REAL speed. You obviously base your speed comparisions on a Mac vs Mac basis. Compared to the current batch of PCs, my 733 just doesn't cut it and neither does the DP 1GHz. The video drivers for the Mac Radeon 8500 need work. Games run slower than they did on my old GF2 MX. The new DDR Macs and 10.2 are what will help bring Apple back into the running again."

Nowhere in this post did I detect even a HINT of blame placed on anything but the system. Yes, you payed lip service to the drivers, but you proceeded to bash Apple and NOT ATI for the problem. That's where I took issue with all of this.

In your second post, you started to cough up ATI as the source of the problem, but continued to heap blame on Apple for the general state of Mac gaming. No blame at all on the software developers who ship Mac games 6 months behind Windows versions, if ever. I just want you to be fair. Apple takes enough heat from Wall Street. They don't need it from you. Not over this.

pgwalsh
Jul 10, 2002, 03:23 PM
qwerpafw
You may not have picked this up from my post, but I am an Apple shareholder. As such, I elect the board of Apple. Those are the people I trust with my money. Jobs is one of them.
Yes, I picked up that you're a shareholder. I'm sure your votes have a profound effect on the outcome of elected shareholders. I agree you should trust who's in charge since you put them there, right?

However, my comment was based on what you said to another person, which I find to be rather silly. It goes without saying that Apple etc know more than most of us about their business practices..
Apple and other tech companies have people who knoe more than you.

I still think you've got something up your butt. I'll continue to spread rumors with the rest of the world. Which I didn't, but maybe you didn't see who posted which comment. Oh and I didn't mean to insult you, I was just pointing out that your comments were insulting - Incase you didn't realize it. However, my insult was light hearted. I was defending someone else's opinion. I never stated my own. However, you can continue to rant if you like and I'll continue to laugh.

ddtlm
Jul 10, 2002, 03:30 PM
wsteineker:

"No blame at all on the software developers who ship Mac games 6 months behind Windows versions, if ever."

Hey, what about Warcraft III, on the same disk as PC, released the same day. Really slick, Blizzard rocks. It does appear PC's play it better, but whatever.

On a similar subject, I wish Apple would bite the bullet and eat the cost of getting good graphics into all the desktops, including eMac and iMac (not the 15" one). They should take action to help the Mac gaming scene, I think shipping no G4-based desktop with less than a 64mb GF4MX would be a good place to start (well, actually a GF2MX was a good start, but we need more).

pgwalsh
Jul 10, 2002, 03:33 PM
wsteineker & Jack Tenric are in love with each other! :eek:
:D :p

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 03:36 PM
And now for the edit...

Originally posted by Jack Tenric
By the way, I went to Apple because I was sick of Microsoft and their business practices. I knew that gaming wasn't quite as good at the moment on Macs but that's no reason not to strive for equality between the two in that area.

So you openly admit that you were aware of the gaming performance gap, yet you compain about its existence. That's hypocrisy. As for wanting improvement, I feel you. I, too, would like some improvement here. I just don't think it's right to bash Apple for not delivering it when they've never promised to do so.

Apple is an awesome company but there is nothing wrong with trying to get them to move along a little faster and better. It's not like DDR just came out last month and I want it installed right away. It's been a year or so with two series of system revisions to the tower models.

I don't disagree that they're lagging. DDR is long overdue, yes. As are a few other things. I just don't think b*tching about it in the forums is the way to achieve anything. Face it, what's posted here is inconsequential to Apple. Don't run around making demands with no real hope of having them met.

"I caught my fair share of heat when I was a newbie. Just be careful not to go throwing facts out in a self righteous manner,"

Then you should have tried to learn from that and not act like they did to you. There was nothing self righteous about it, I was merely stating my experiences and hopes for Apple. Nothing more.

That's the way the world works, my friend. I wouldn't be able to stand up for myself now if I hadn't taken it then. Besides, I noticed that some of the flames had valid points nestled deep inside. I learned from them, as I hope you do from this. Again, best of luck to you. :)

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
wsteineker:

"No blame at all on the software developers who ship Mac games 6 months behind Windows versions, if ever."

Hey, what about Warcraft III, on the same disk as PC, released the same day. Really slick, Blizzard rocks. It does appear PC's play it better, but whatever.

No argument here. Blizzard rocks! Unfortunately they're the exception to the rule.

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
:D :p

Heh. Glad you posted that. It's always good to have cooler heads around when things get tense. :D

mcrain
Jul 10, 2002, 03:41 PM
You know what would be nice... other than you guys giving us a break and taking a chill pill...

it would be soooo nice if Apple came out with a chip so damn fast that it ran virtual pc faster than the fasted Intel or AMD chip.

That would be great...

Ok, time to wake up... :(

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 03:43 PM
Consider it taken, mcrain. Thanks for the advice. Sometimes I let things get a little out of hand. :)

job
Jul 10, 2002, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
On a similar subject, I wish Apple would bite the bullet and eat the cost of getting good graphics into all the desktops, including eMac and iMac (not the 15" one). They should take action to help the Mac gaming scene, I think shipping no G4-based desktop with less than a 64mb GF4MX would be a good place to start (well, actually a GF2MX was a good start, but we need more).

Wouldn't a GeForce 3Ti be a lot better than the GeForce 4MX? :D

sehix
Jul 10, 2002, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by adamschneids
Rumors huh? I guess this means CNet will be denied Expo press access, huh?

Highly unlikely.

Double standard???

How much NDA'd material (screenshots, etc.) has c|net published?

Think about it.

pgwalsh
Jul 10, 2002, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by wsteineker


Heh. Glad you posted that. It's always good to have cooler heads around when things get tense. :D

I try to keep it light and certainly don't like to offend anyone, but sometimes I do (unintentionally). Of course unless they're a real jackass like me. :rolleyes:

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by hitman
Wouldn't a GeForce 3Ti be a lot better than the GeForce 4MX? :D

A stock GeForce3 (original model) beats the 4 MX at XLR8YourMac (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com). So yeah, I'd say so. Good call, hitman. :)

ddtlm
Jul 10, 2002, 03:52 PM
hitman, wsteineker:

"Wouldn't a GeForce 3Ti be a lot better than the GeForce 4MX?"

"A stock GeForce3 (original model) beats the 4 MX at XLR8YourMac. So yeah, I'd say so. Good call, hitman."

Yeah whatever. The GF3 is also much more expensive to manufacture. I was trying to make a reasonable statement about something Apple could do without much more cost than they currently have.

wake up Jobs!!!
Jul 10, 2002, 04:00 PM
This is my 30th post! I am finally a member! YESSSSSS

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
hitman, wsteineker:

"Wouldn't a GeForce 3Ti be a lot better than the GeForce 4MX?"

"A stock GeForce3 (original model) beats the 4 MX at XLR8YourMac. So yeah, I'd say so. Good call, hitman."

Yeah whatever. The GF3 is also much more expensive to manufacture. I was trying to make a reasonable statement about something Apple could do without much more cost than they currently have.

Oh you're definitely right about that, man. It's absolutely more cost beneficial for Apple to stick with the 4MX. I was just saying that the 3 is a better card. That's all. :)

Jack Tenric
Jul 10, 2002, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by wsteineker


You said:

"The G4 733 w/ Radeon 8500 runs games like crap. I need a machine with REAL speed. You obviously base your speed comparisions on a Mac vs Mac basis. Compared to the current batch of PCs, my 733 just doesn't cut it and neither does the DP 1GHz. The video drivers for the Mac Radeon 8500 need work. Games run slower than they did on my old GF2 MX. The new DDR Macs and 10.2 are what will help bring Apple back into the running again."

Nowhere in this post did I detect even a HINT of blame placed on anything but the system. Yes, you payed lip service to the drivers, but you proceeded to bash Apple and NOT ATI for the problem. That's where I took issue with all of this.

In your second post, you started to cough up ATI as the source of the problem, but continued to heap blame on Apple for the general state of Mac gaming. No blame at all on the software developers who ship Mac games 6 months behind Windows versions, if ever. I just want you to be fair. Apple takes enough heat from Wall Street. They don't need it from you. Not over this.

Again you put words into my mouth. Amoung many things aimed towards Apple I also listed one complaint towards ATI. I did not mention specificly that that one compaint was towards ATI because I thought everybody knew that they made the card and the drivers. You then mention that ATI makes the drivers like I didn't know that and state that I should blame them and not Apple. I did not blame Apple for this problem, I merely listed an ATI issue amounst the Apple ones. Please do not jump to conclusions and try to guess what is most likely, not what is most possibly wrong. I mentioned ATI as being a separate problem that was mixed into the mess in my second post because you said Apple does not make the drivers, ATI does. Well of course ATI does... What web site do you think I get my drivers from? *sigh*

"but you proceeded to bash Apple and NOT ATI for the problem."

No I blamed Apple AND ATI. I just didn't mention the name ATI for the drivers. I assumed that everyone would know that they make them. Plus any other factor that is not up to snuff on Mac, yet is on PC. There is nothing wrong with wanting the Mac situation to equal and exceed the PC situation in all areas. It's unlikely that things will change greatly in this area any time soon but suggesting things does not hurt.

The software developers are at fault but shipping games behind schedule does not hurt their speed/performance on system. In fact, one would think that the extra time might allow them to get more performance through tweaks.

In any case, I am truely sorry for the mixup. We can't always remember to elaborate on every single thing that we write. Things happen. I hope that you have a good day and that this hasn't put a damper on anything.

wsteineker
Jul 10, 2002, 04:25 PM
This argument is getting terribly redundant, and the fun's gone out of it. Neither one of us is going to sa anyting new, so why drag it out? It's over, man. I'm going to work now. I officially surrender this hijacked thread back to the good people of the MacRumors community. Have a nice day guys. :)

Jack Tenric
Jul 10, 2002, 04:33 PM
There was never any fun it in at all. Just a person posting some suggestions/experiences and someone who read into the message the wrong way and got angry. No hard feelings, I just don't like it when people misunderstand what I am saying, get angry and bash me. (Or anyone else for that matter.)

Just about every other Mac forum that I've been to has been a far more pleasant experience than you have made this for me. This will likely be my last post here. To everyone else, thanks for the kind words. So long and have an excellent day.

pgwalsh
Jul 10, 2002, 04:48 PM
Jack be nimble Jack be quick, Jack just gave macrumors the middle finger. Come back Jack! We love you man!

Jack Tenric
Jul 10, 2002, 06:45 PM
Don't worry, I'll probably be staying on. Just very discouraged about things after that.

Do you guys think that the 17" iMac would sell? What if it were available for the same price as the 15" model? I would think that the 17" model would be a might too pricey for some people but then again, there's still the eMac.

agoldweber
Jul 10, 2002, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Jack Tenric
Do you guys think that the 17" iMac would sell? What if it were available for the same price as the 15" model? I would think that the 17" model would be a might too pricey for some people but then again, there's still the eMac.

the problem I can see with a 17" iMac is making the water too murky. it would compete directly with the low-end PM w/Studio Display.

it seems the price structure already established works well. for those in the lower end that want the size, they go for the eMac. for those looking for simplicity and cool design there's the iMac. and for those that are more serious (or have cash to burn) for the various PM offerings.

makes sense to me. keeps production simpler too which is a good idea with so many vendors to rely on.

beatle888
Jul 10, 2002, 06:59 PM
oh that was fun.


I usually get upset when people put each other
down on these sites. But today I laughed all
the way through. Possibly because I could
relate to both of these compassionate souls.
You have to be more careful than the politicians
on this board.

Hehe.

Only Apple really knows whats gonna happen...
oops oh ya and to cover my ass, God certanly
knows too....hehe.....(beatle888 feels a fleeting
moment of cleverness).

note: the word feels above is in reference to
emotions. Feelings are subjective therefor you
may not agree with mine.

pgwalsh
Jul 10, 2002, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Jack Tenric
Don't worry, I'll probably be staying on. Just very discouraged about things after that.

Do you guys think that the 17" iMac would sell? What if it were available for the same price as the 15" model? I would think that the 17" model would be a might too pricey for some people but then again, there's still the eMac.


I think they will sell. The only issue I've heard is the monitor isn't transferable to another computer. However, this argument could be made for the original iMac and those sold quite well. When the market turns around you'll see more purchases. I think people are holding tight to their savings until the market turns around and the fear of losing your job has been decreased. However, this will hold true for most manufactures ect.

We must push forward and be the best, never rest. That way we can watch life pass us by from our cubicles. eghhhh....
:confused:

Cappy
Jul 11, 2002, 12:08 AM
If this 17" iMac rumor is true(I have my doubts) it would not make sense unless Apple's market research has either fallen on hard times, has spotted a new market for it(Unix workstations?), or the iMac line is due for a price drop on some models with perhaps the dvd burner option on a model being replaced by the 17" version.


The cost of lcd's has been going up as well as some other component parts so I just can't see the price drop happening. Market research of Apple's is usually dead on(not perfect of course) so I don't figure that to be the issue. My guess, again if this rumor turns out to be true, is for a new market and I can't see that being a big deal at this show.

It even strikes me as odd that they waited until the week before to do the rebates which are making people believe for the moment that new powermacs won't be announced. They surely could see this earlier and could have just extended the rebate promotion that they had going. I hate to read alot into unverified rumors but this is all very odd. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

bretm
Jul 11, 2002, 02:00 AM
Originally posted by Marianco

I will not buy the Dual 1GHz G4 model because it is only twice as fast as the ORIGINAL single 500 Mhz G4 which debuted in August 1999, fully 3 years ago. All you have to do is look at Apple's own specs using Final Cut Pro!!!

-snip-

The transition from the 132 MHz PowerPC to the 400 MHz G3 was a smaller but still great jump in speed, particularly as memory prices came down and you could outfit the PowerMac with 256 MB of RAM. For Photoshop, it was a noticeable, almost four-fold increase in speed.

The 500mhz wasn't announced until January 2000. The original G4 line was 350, 400, 450. It had been planned to be 400, 450, 500 but they couldn't make enough chips. FCP should take advantage of the dual processor making it near 4 times as fast. But I'll take your word for it. After Effects and Photoshop do I believe. I have a G4 350 that runs like a champ. I installed a superdrive in it and run iDVD. It works great. Final Cut Pro runs great too. Sure, it's a little slower to render, but hey... I charge by the hour. :)

What do you mean by the transition from the 132mhz ppc to the 400mhz G3? You're comparing the low-end from an earlier line of PPCs to the High end of the first line of G3s. When PPCs were discontinued the top of the line was the 366mhz (or 333?). The jump to the G3 400mhz was still pretty decent. The bottom at the time was probably a 225mhz ppc and a 233mhz G3.

wsteineker
Jul 11, 2002, 02:23 AM
The notion of a 17" iMac is one that I think the market will support fully. Think about it for a minute. The eMac, at what I think will be $999 with a combo drive at the low end after MWNY, takes the bargain basement position. No doubt that it's a steal for the price.

The new 17" iMac slips into the middle of the lineup at $1599 (combo drive) and $1899 (superdrive). No change in price point, bigger screen, and the low end model is gone so as not to conflict with eMac sales. As for processor speed increases, I'll wait and see. If I had to guess, I'd say 933 MHz across the board. It's not terribly important for the sake of this argument.

Assuming everything we hear is correct, the new PowerMac systems will ship at 1 GHz, DP 1.2 GHz, and DP 1.4 GHZ. It's probably also safe to say that it'll include DDR, which the iMac definitely won't. It'll also sport PCI slots, monitor of choice, and bigger HDs. All this is VERY IMPORTANT when considering which computer to purchase. The price point for these can stay the same for the sake of argument ($1599, $2299, $2999 respectively).

Let's think rationaly about this sort of a product matrix. Why couldn't this work? The eMac is the obviously capable sub $1000 machine that everyone's been clamoring for. The iMac is filling in nicely as a mid/high mid range machine with a ton of capability but an all in one design. It's distinct disadvantage is the lack of expandability and the slower bus, thus making it just as unattractive to power hungry pros as the Cube (one of which I'm proud to say I own). It doesn't conflict with the PM series because of these disadvantages, and it allows mid range consumers to have a truly powerful machine that will stand up to the mid range Dells in every single department. The PowerMacs, meanwhile, occupy the top end of the food chain, giving folks power, expandability, a choice of monitors, and a screaming bus. Everyone wins with this setup. Does anyone else see where I'm coming from here? :)