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userannon
Jun 14, 2004, 03:39 PM
I don't know if it is just me or is there a stigma against buying an Apple?

To start, I love PC's, I have my A+ certs along with Hubble, MCP (Microsoft Certified Professional) and MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer). I am no newbie when it comes to computers, in fact I love computers.

So I bought a Powerbook G4 12'. I love the size and the build quality. The finishing touches are perfect. There is not one laptop that even comes close to the price I paid, $1399, Student discount. I wanted a laptop for school and the 12in G4 is perfect. Bluetooth, 802.11G, CDRW, LED Status on battery, 64mb DDR graphics all in a little 12incher.

When I showed my friends they laughed and asked WHY?? Even my family went nuts. You would figure that I know what I am doing and I wouldn't buy any crappy products.

I just wanted to know if anyone else had this problem? :)

laserbeahm
Jun 14, 2004, 03:43 PM
Sounds like jealously, plain and simple. Personally, I can't enjoy myself on a Windows PC. Have you ever tried to go on the Internet on one of those? It's ridiculous. Too many pop-ups. I know like 5 people whose computers have been taken over by spyware that slows their computer down. That just doesn't happen on Macs.

russed
Jun 14, 2004, 03:46 PM
Sounds like jealously, plain and simple. Personally, I can't enjoy myself on a Windows PC. Have you ever tried to go on the Internet on one of those? It's ridiculous. Too many pop-ups. I know like 5 people whose computers have been taken over by spyware that slows their computer down. That just doesn't happen on Macs.

spyware is the bane of my life, i hate the stuff, i couldnt put up with windows any longer and had to get out. apple is great. tell them to have a play with it and they will fall in love with it!

jxyama
Jun 14, 2004, 03:46 PM
who cares?

i mean seriously...

jxyama
Jun 14, 2004, 03:49 PM
Too many pop-ups.

it's funny you mention pop-ups because with XP, you get pop-ups without going online. you get plenty of pop-ups about XP finding new devices or new wireless network or offers to clean up the desktop icons.

it's so intrusive. if the computer is working fine, as it should, why would i care to know that it's working? :rolleyes:

i know they put in the clean up unused desktop icons in response to complaints about cluttered desktops. (as any program installed usually puts a shortcut on the desktop.) but geez, if that wasn't annoying already, now it bothers me all the time about how it can be cleaned!

to all that, i say, just let me use the damn computer. stay out of my way.

musicpyrite
Jun 14, 2004, 03:58 PM
A few weeks ago I picked up a Pentium III 733 MHz, 128 RAM, I've installed 98 SE on it.
I refuse to connect it to the internet for fear of spyware, ads, virii, trojans, ect.
It's out of controll.
I know how you feal. :(

And I do know peple who resent and hate me for using Macs a my prefered OS. :mad:

PowerMacMan
Jun 14, 2004, 04:05 PM
I've been a Windows user all my life and recently ordered a Mac... After 16 years w/ Windows you get the hang of it, and now I'm an expert with it... I have no problems and get no pop-ups... You have to download software though to get rid of all the crap on Windows, two necessities are...

Ad-Aware (http://download.com.com/3000-2144-10045910.html?part=69274&subj=dlpage&tag=button)

and...

the Google and/or MSN toolbar which will prevent you from getting pop-ups...

I'm just giving out helpful hints to you guys, not sticking up for Windows, because after all the problems I went through I am glad to be getting a Mac... Mac OS X is so much better then Windows! :D

----Bowie----
Jun 14, 2004, 04:09 PM
When I showed my friends they laughed and asked WHY?? Even my family went nuts. You would figure that I know what I am doing and I wouldn't buy any crappy products.

I just wanted to know if anyone else had this problem? :)

The same thing happend to me when I got my frist Mac a few months ago. Now I just make fun of them when they try to use there PCs.

jxyama
Jun 14, 2004, 04:37 PM
at least, can't you now claim ignorance of all the windows expertise when your family and friends come ask for help?

"Oh, sorry, I forgot all about Windows now, I use Macs, remember?" :D

BornAgainMac
Jun 14, 2004, 05:08 PM
That is strange, a lot of PC people that I know are either thinking of switching or have recently switched to the Mac. The ones that switched have gotten some of their friends to switch to a Mac also. The iBook, Powerbook, and eMac models have been the most popular systems.

Just tell people you are tired of viruses, spyware, and popups and that is the reason you switched. It was taking too much time download patches and buying anti-virus software and updating it. You just want the computer to work correctly and save you time.

abc123
Jun 14, 2004, 05:30 PM
my dad: why the bloody hell do you kids keep buying macs?
:)

JOD8FY
Jun 14, 2004, 05:32 PM
Trust me, they'll switch :D. Same thing happened to my Windows loving friend when I switched. Then, I showed him what my PB could do, and now he wants one. He goes campaigning around school (which is a little embarasing :o ) about how Macs are better than PC's. And to be honest, he's gotten a few to switch.

Just give them time. ;)

Best wishes,
JOD8FY

JOD8FY
Jun 14, 2004, 05:35 PM
my dad: why the bloody hell do you kids keep buying macs?
:)
20 mins. later you hear him speaking to his PC - "How do you turn this stupid thing on???"

:D :D :D

JOD8FY

JesseJames
Jun 14, 2004, 05:54 PM
Sigh.
People are sheep. Plain and simple. No one wants to do their homework. I won't say Macs are the best machines but they come pretty close.
Windows is okay. Utilitarian-wise. Market forces don't determine the best product.

MacDawg
Jun 14, 2004, 06:03 PM
My brother and I are the only ones in our family that use the Mac... and we have since the Mac SE. Our uncles and cousins use PCs and laugh at us thinking we are using a "toy". The standard arguement is that there is no software out there. To which I always replied "how many word processors do you need?". There is nothing that they use that couldn't be done on a Mac. Email, word processing, web browsing, etc. but they still say that there is no software. Just an arguement that they heard from someone else years ago. I don't let it bother me. I just use my Mac, and they just curse their PCs.

jxyama
Jun 14, 2004, 06:14 PM
The standard arguement is that there is no software out there.

i think "there's no software" is often meant as "there's no software i can just copy from others." ;)

and i think it's true to a degree, many people stay away from switching because they need to be able to get programs from their friends for their computer.

Macmaniac
Jun 14, 2004, 06:14 PM
Well since you have a Mac now, go download a nice windows virus and send it them as a nice little I joke on them. If they give u crap, then maybe they really are not your friends, a true friend is supportive no matter what computer platform u use. :cool:

TheWitePony
Jun 14, 2004, 06:19 PM
Yes, I've had the same problem. When I bought my TIbook my girl friend's dad made all these stupid remarks about how I wasn't buying a "real" computer.

I'm a Computer/ Electrical Engineer student at the moment at NC State (and yes those are two separate degrees). He on the other hand likes to think he knows a lot about computers cause he can do some VB and reinstall Windows98 on his friends computers.

You know, I don't want to sound arrogant or anything, but you think maybe....just maybe...I might know a little bit more about computers than he does?!? These kinds of things are frustrating, and there isn't much you can do about it. Trying to sanely argue your position just makes them more defensive and they tend to resort to the tired old "Mac's just suck" routine.

But you know what, there really isn't must point in fighting it. The fact remains that some people just don't like change. Why do you think the fundamental interface of Windows has remained the same? People don't like change...

Chip NoVaMac
Jun 14, 2004, 07:14 PM
I just laugh at this point when i get email with a virus attached.

And as long as Apple offers Virex as part of .Mac, i'll be OK.

I just wish that Safari was totally compatible with IE. I know about the debug menu, but some websites are so freaking tied to active x, it is useless.

quagmire
Jun 14, 2004, 07:25 PM
My family was already mac users. Most of my friends accepted me using macs.(even though they call me macdevil but, I know that they are just joking around) Two of them dispise me for using mac. They both can't believe halo is on the mac. They think they are slow only looking at clockspeed. They never looked at macs at an apple store. They do admit that apple designs their computers then pcs. They also complain they freeze. Thats why I hate OS 9 it had freeze alot so they presume Panther and other Mac OS X systems had freeze alot too. They admit macs are immune to viruses.

neoelectronaut
Jun 14, 2004, 07:26 PM
Heh. I was at Best Buy today at the cashier buying a music CD when the woman in front of me had 2 boxes. One for a pop-up blocker, and one for a spyware stopper.

I had to just laugh to myself a bit.

1) She probably spent $40 on software that she could get free online.

2) She wouldn't need it at all if she had a Mac.

Chip NoVaMac
Jun 14, 2004, 07:33 PM
I just wish that Mail or Entourage had the ability to import PST files.....

applemacdude
Jun 14, 2004, 07:41 PM
get a new family

upperblue79
Jun 14, 2004, 07:48 PM
at least, can't you now claim ignorance of all the windows expertise when your family and friends come ask for help?

"Oh, sorry, I forgot all about Windows now, I use Macs, remember?" :D

I actually did that just yesterday, I had an old friend who always called me to fix his pc and just yesterday he called with a handful or problems, I told him that since I have switched to mac it has been so long since I have had to fix any kind of computer problems that I dont know how anymore and told him that since it's been more then a month since he has reformated his pc that would probably be his best option. LOL

upperblue79
Jun 14, 2004, 07:53 PM
They both can't believe halo is on the mac.

Correct me if I"m wrong, but Halo was being developed as a Mac only game before Microsoft purchased it for the XBox.

Horrortaxi
Jun 14, 2004, 07:58 PM
Your friends and family are in denial. It's a natural thing when somebody buys a Mac. Screw em.

jknight8907
Jun 14, 2004, 09:27 PM
I'm no newbie either, but when I chose my 12" PB 1.33 (Rev C) you'd have though I had chosen a Hell, I mean Dill, No, Dell. They're all saying Why? What can you do on THAT?. Thankfully, I was able to convert them too, after showing them all the cool specs and the Unix-Based part, even if it took a while to sink in. Oh well, let them suffer at the hands of little Billy Gates.

bhertz
Jun 14, 2004, 09:41 PM
<rant>
Here is the problem that I see. Apple has never shown what a Mac can do. Their ads are all about the beautiful metal box with their cool logo. Never about the power of the OS (or the gui eyecandy :D). I was once told by a pc tech that Macs could not get online :confused:. There is a huge misunderstanding about what is available for software on a Mac. I have recently stopped buying a lot of software because the freeware/opensource on the Mac blows everything else away. I was looking at version tracker today and about 50% of the Mac programs were free or dirt cheap. 99% of the apps on the windows platform where commercial $$$. Apple makes great software and the Mac developer community follows suit so apple should show the tools we have so people understand want the Mac is good for. Hell screen shots of the gui in action with some of the apps would sell more machines then their "worlds fastest ads". People have never even seen how the Mac layout works. Itís just the ignorant leading the ignorant and apple refuses to do any public education. </rant>

Inspector Lee
Jun 14, 2004, 10:11 PM
Here is the problem that I see. Apple has never shown what a Mac can do. Itís just the ignorant leading the ignorant and apple refuses to do any public education.

I agree with this completely. Most of the sheep don't realize you can have PC/Mac households, that you can share documents and just about everything else (sans games). And most of those clowns down at Best Buy and Circuit *****ty fuel the fire with just plain xenophobic lies.

My girlfriend's father once said he wouldn't get a Mac because "they only have something like 3% marketshare..." Upon hearing this I did what any sane individual would do: I slammed my drink, excused myself, went outside to have a smoke and then uprooted a tree.

Oirectine
Jun 14, 2004, 10:12 PM
Heh. Try to convert them. My girlfriend is one of those people who doesn't know much about computers, and is PROUD of it. You know, the ones where you're like "Macs are superior" and they're all like "I don't care."

Well anyway, I stayed in her dorm room over spring break and convinced her to use my PowerBook for the week.

Guess what she's buying next. :-D

musicpyrite
Jun 15, 2004, 05:04 PM
i think "there's no software" is often meant as "there's no software i can just copy from others." ;)

and i think it's true to a degree, many people stay away from switching because they need to be able to get programs from their friends for their computer.

You can get plenty of software 'free' if you know where to look....

photoshop cs, dreamweaver mx, office 2004, filemaker 7, vpc 6 to name a few

really... that argument 'there is no software for the MAC' is so old and un-true...people who say that think clock cycles are everyting...and they then procede to use amd procs.... :rolleyes:

amin
Jun 15, 2004, 05:23 PM
I had the opposite experience. I got Mac and told my family about it. Now my brother bought a Powerbook, and my mom bought a G5. My family really took to it.

dswoodley
Jun 15, 2004, 05:28 PM
I think a lot of the problem is people don't like admiting they make bad decisions. Whenever I advise people in my office of the latest virus or worm (mind you I send this info out on my iMac) I get snorts and glares from everyone because they know that their systems are more insecure, they just have a problem admiting that the system (my iMac) they used to make fun of is better than theirs.

legion
Jun 15, 2004, 06:31 PM
They probably hate you for other reasons... the Mac is just an excuse to hate you in the open and outright.

(Anyone ever feel that zealots are the only ones that belive such strong feelings such as "hate" can be conjured by the ownership of a certain brand of computer??? :rolleyes: )

musicpyrite
Jun 15, 2004, 07:07 PM
(Anyone ever feel that zealots are the only ones that belive such strong feelings such as "hate" can be conjured by the ownership of a certain brand of computer??? :rolleyes: )

Yes. Yes I do.

I have a graphic arts teacher who regularly likes to bash Macs.
He knows I luv Macs.
When ever he makes fun of them, (CPU cycles, virii, software, price, ect.)
I just sit there and smile.

It pisses him off so much. :D

blue&whiteman
Jun 15, 2004, 07:32 PM
some pc users seem truly offended over macs. its very pathetic. I mean come on.. get a life people.

MacFan26
Jun 15, 2004, 08:19 PM
Correct me if I"m wrong, but Halo was being developed as a Mac only game before Microsoft purchased it for the XBox.

Yes, and believe me I was annoyed when Microsoft bought Bungie. As a huge Bungie fan before that, it sucked to all of a sudden have people saying "Halo can't run on a Mac" etc. when just a while ago it was only going to be released for Mac. :mad:
Oh well, hopefully Bungie will continue to develop games for the Mac.

MacFan26
Jun 15, 2004, 08:24 PM
My girlfriend's father once said he wouldn't get a Mac because "they only have something like 3% marketshare..." Upon hearing this I did what any sane individual would do: I slammed my drink, excused myself, went outside to have a smoke and then uprooted a tree.

:D :D did you really uproot a tree?

I hate the marketshare complaint. It's got to be one of the worst out there. It doesn't even make any sense! Why do you think they don't have a big market share?? Because everyone says they don't have a big market share, so they don't buy one! Ugh. No pun intended, but it should be like Apple Jacks: "we eat what we like." Isn't it really as simple as that?

matt459
Jun 15, 2004, 08:30 PM
You can get plenty of software 'free' if you know where to look....

photoshop cs, dreamweaver mx, office 2004, filemaker 7, vpc 6 to name a few

really... that argument 'there is no software for the MAC' is so old and un-true...people who say that think clock cycles are everyting...and they then procede to use amd procs.... :rolleyes:

.... Ho hum. Where is a good place for one to look for software such as those listed above ;) :D ;) :D ...and free???

kel
Jun 15, 2004, 09:26 PM
Hi,

It is interesting looking through these posts and the different approaches people have to this post. There is prejudice within the Mac community just as there is prejudice between Mac and PC. I have no doubt that each system has it's pros and cons no matter what system one chooses, the job will get done. It is not good to compare.

I remember watching a documentary about a girl not long ago. The girl wanted to take up skating. Her friends wondered why she would want to do this and could not understand for the most part. The girl continued in her persuit of learning skateboarding and did quite well in the tournament for a beginner. What really mattered in this documentary is that in the end, those that really loved the young woman, gave support no matter what they thought. Some where guilty of ignorance and some where guilty of prejudice. But, seeing the smile on that little girls face when she did well broughtt a good feeling within me.

If we all followed the crowd, then perhaps we would still be cavemen an women. But, we are not cavepeople. We are individuals. You can ask many any experienced teacher about the personalities of their students. They'll tell you they are individuals. Sure, some follow more than lead, but they still have their individual differences. I tend to support my students within limits, but give support to their thoughts. Instead of saying no this is not right, I try to understand.

When others criticize, reflect outwards and inwards, and persue your dreams.

gl,
Kel.

jsw
Jun 15, 2004, 09:32 PM
<rant>
Here is the problem that I see. Apple has never shown what a Mac can do....</rant>

I don't think I could possibly agree more. There is nothing at ALL indicating how great the OS is - you basically have to buy a Mac to figure that out. Even the old Jeff Goldblum "look how easy it is" commercials never really showed the OS (and it's a much better OS now).

I think a 30 second commercial showing what you could do, showing only the screen of the system for most of the commercial, would work wonders.

I love the iPod ads. But for god's sake, could Apple just replace 10% of them with Mac ads?

blue&whiteman
Jun 15, 2004, 09:46 PM
.... Ho hum. Where is a good place for one to look for software such as those listed above ;) :D ;) :D ...and free???

your newbieness shines like a blinding star

johnbro23
Jun 15, 2004, 10:18 PM
You can get plenty of software 'free' if you know where to look....

photoshop cs, dreamweaver mx, office 2004, filemaker 7, vpc 6 to name a few

really... that argument 'there is no software for the MAC' is so old and un-true...people who say that think clock cycles are everyting...and they then procede to use amd procs.... :rolleyes:

You can? Free? I was considering throwing $400 at Microsoft for Office 2004 for my new eMac and you're saying I can get it for free? Sounds a little too good to be true...

MikeLaRiviere
Jun 15, 2004, 10:35 PM
Yes, there is a stigma against buying a Mac. It's really humorous when one steps back to look at it. The average consumer has no problem with Apple. To the average consumer, the Mac is desirable because it is rumored to be easy-to-use. We, as Mac users, know this.

To the computer enthusiast, the Mac's specifications don't compare with the PC's specifications. "A 1 GHz processor? Ha," they say. "Mac's are slow," "Mac's aren't real computers," and more, are some of these enthusiasts' favorite arguments. Unfortunately, these users are trying to sound smart, when in fact they have no idea what they're talking about. They haven't seen the benchmarks; they think any Intel or AMD 64-bit is faster than the G5 because of the clock speed.

Those with a little more knowledge realize clock speed isn't the most important factor, as they use 2.2 GHz Athlon 3000+ processors that outperform 3 GHz Pentium 4s. Unfortunately, these users don't extend this logic to the Apple platform as they are chiefly gamers.

Linux users argue that Linux is the only OS to use; OS X isn't free, therefore they criticize it.

The answer to the original question - whether there is a stigma to buying a Mac - is yes. The average consumer won't criticize because the average consumer doesn't care. The enthusiast will criticize because the enthusiast wants to sound smart. The gamer will criticize because the gamer (incorrectly) thinks there are no games for the Mac. The Linux user will criticize because the Linux user loves Linux and hates commercial software.

Who doesn't criticize? The creative designer doesn't. The scientist doesn't. The mathematician, the programmer, the educator, the IT manager, and the educated computer user don't criticize.

Who would you rather listen to? Which group would you rather be in?

Mike LaRiviere

MacFan26
Jun 15, 2004, 10:39 PM
Who doesn't criticize? The creative designer doesn't. The scientist doesn't. The mathematician, the programmer, the educator, the IT manager, and the educated computer user don't criticize.


well said :)

SiliconAddict
Jun 16, 2004, 12:17 AM
Sounds like jealously, plain and simple.

No itís because Apple and their users have gotten a rep over the years for being snob, elitist, ***holes. Consequently some of us have to explain we arenít like that. A handful of Mac zealots have single handedly alienated pretty much the entire computer industry by being jerks. The reaction is partly because of this but also partly because of the notion that Macs are more expensive. Iíd call it a 60/40 split.

And lets face facts there is something that is just aggravating about someone who thinks their system is god's gift to the world when their computing OS is on less then 2-4% of the computers on this planet. That's not to say that there aren't a good number of PC jerks out there its just that Mac users are more vocal and more in your face about it. Or that's how I see it at any rate. *shrugs*

FuzzyBallz
Jun 16, 2004, 01:00 AM
No itís because Apple and their users have gotten a rep over the years for being snob, elitist, ***holes. Consequently some of us have to explain we arenít like that. A handful of Mac zealots have single handedly alienated pretty much the entire computer industry by being jerks. The reaction is partly because of this but also partly because of the notion that Macs are more expensive. Iíd call it a 60/40 split.

And lets face facts there is something that is just aggravating about someone who thinks their system is god's gift to the world when their computing OS is on less then 2-4% of the computers on this planet. That's not to say that there aren't a good number of PC jerks out there its just that Mac users are more vocal and more in your face about it. Or that's how I see it at any rate. *shrugs*

Ditto. Although our IT manager, expert in both Mac and PC field is a pretty nice guy. Although he flaunts his 12" PB, 3G iPod (40GB I'm sure), and canal ear buds, where ever he goes.

neoelectronaut
Jun 16, 2004, 01:10 AM
Ditto. Although our IT manager, expert in both Mac and PC field is a pretty nice guy. Although he flaunts his 12" PB, 3G iPod (40GB I'm sure), and canal ear buds, where ever he goes.

Hell, if I had either of those I'd sure as hell do the same thing.

Mav451
Jun 16, 2004, 01:25 AM
You can get plenty of software 'free' if you know where to look....

photoshop cs, dreamweaver mx, office 2004, filemaker 7, vpc 6 to name a few

really... that argument 'there is no software for the MAC' is so old and un-true...people who say that think clock cycles are everyting...and they then procede to use amd procs.... :rolleyes:

You DO realize that the PR Rating that AMD devised was specifically made to go against the "clock cycles are everything" mentality that Intel has reinforced the past 5 years?

Why do you think a 1600+ Athlon XP could compete with the 1.6ghz up to the 2.0ghz Williamette? The Athlon XP was running @ only 1.4Ghz.

*by the same token, I honestly HOPE that you don't buy into Apple's "FLOPS are everything" campaign. In that kind of FUD/Distortion field, you would believe a Single 933 G4 can beat a Dual 2.0Ghz Opteron system, basing your comparison on FLOP performance ALONE:

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pages/09.html
It still scares me, to this day, that people may read this site and BELIEVE what he is saying.

elo
Jun 16, 2004, 11:21 AM
No itís because Apple and their users have gotten a rep over the years for being snob, elitist, ***holes. Consequently some of us have to explain we arenít like that. A handful of Mac zealots have single handedly alienated pretty much the entire computer industry by being jerks. The reaction is partly because of this but also partly because of the notion that Macs are more expensive. Iíd call it a 60/40 split.

And lets face facts there is something that is just aggravating about someone who thinks their system is god's gift to the world when their computing OS is on less then 2-4% of the computers on this planet. That's not to say that there aren't a good number of PC jerks out there its just that Mac users are more vocal and more in your face about it. Or that's how I see it at any rate. *shrugs*

I think there's a lot to this. My primary computer is an IBM ThinkPad, because of certain things that it does better *for my particular purpose* than a PowerBook would. I do have an iMac at home, though, and love it when I'm not working. The funny thing is that I know a couple of the "Mac zealots" you describe who are constantly trying to sell me on the Mac (I won't give them the satisfaction of telling them that I'm actually a big fan of Macs and have one at home) and who think that an IBM purchase cannot possibly have been made wisely.

I do agree that Apple needs to sharpen its Mac advertising. Because of the huge stigma attached to the Mac, it is no longer possible to advertise it the same way that you would advertise an iPod. I don't think you could show too much of the GUI in a 30 second spot, and even if you did this could backfire, however. People would notice two things: the interface is very different (a GUi spot wouldn't be showing the similarities, after all) and it has eye candy (which people would fit into their "toy" bias). In my mind, a better choice would be to show Macs doing things: controlling a home stereo w/ Airport Express, managing photos and movies (the DVD buring commercial *was* a success), and very importantly, sending Microsoft Word files to PC using coworkers. Every time I send a Word file from my Mac to someone using a PC, they think I used some kind of "trick."

elo

7on
Jun 16, 2004, 11:45 AM
Yeah. My mom needs a new laptop and I'll be going out of my way to buy her a used iBook. Just so she'll have a computer that won't be a headache to her. She always comes up to my room asking me to do stuff on the computer for her because she doesn't know on the PC. Like we were selling something and she wanted to know how I made a website with the pictures. I promptly connected my camera, imported into iPhoto, selected the photos, and then export to Webpage. And since I use Transmit, I just opened that up and told it to sync with my Sites folder. Though it could have gone smoother since my web space was filled up and I had to delete some stuff first. But it was awesome.

Then there was a time when she wanted to take back her camera because she didn't like the software. I told her it was Window's fault and not the camera's, so I just connected her camera up and imported into iPhoto. She asked "Can I get my computer to do that?" I said no, it's only for Macs.

And people complain of the lack of software for Macs. Geez, it should be the other way around. She loves iTunes though. I'll probably get her a 500Mhz Icebook. Unless my dad wants to pitch in some money too, which I doubt it, because a 500Mhz would be all she'd need albeit a little slow.

varmit
Jun 16, 2004, 11:57 AM
When i was buying my ibook 3 years ago, everyone was like, "A Mac? Why don't you just get a Dell or something." My parents were very against it because I would need their help to buy it in the first place, they front the money, I pay them back so I don't need to get a load or do a monthy payment thing.

Now, I have a Quicksilver along with my ibook, and my mom is loving what Apple has to offer, and my father likes it too. Friends are now buying macs and throwing out their PCs.

Getting my mom a green mini iPod as soon as they become avaliable again. Hopefully, a new G5 as their main desktop by christmas time. Still need some PC software so the old PC will stay hooked up for my father to use his stock programs. Other than that, they would both move to a mac.

peteMG
Jun 16, 2004, 12:26 PM
I just wish that Mail or Entourage had the ability to import PST files.....
I did this a while ago when I wanted to bring my email archives over from work to my Powerbook. You can do it, but it's a two-step process. If I remember correctly, one of the Netscape Communicator versions (4.7? 4.8? You'll need to have Classic up and running for either of them) can open PST files and import their contents into its own mail store. Then you can use Apple Mail to migrate the data from Netscape. The one downside is that if you were on a corporate network and sent mail to other users in the domain, when you finally finish importing, you will only get the real names of recipients and senders - not their email addresses. Let me see if I can dig up the link that described how to do it...

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=2002100306134721

Ah, I was incorrect. You don't need classic, you need a Windows PC to run Communicator 4.7. You should be able to do the first steps of this whatever machine you use the PST files, and then copy the imported results back to the mac.

Anyway, it's the best. I'm a bit of a pack rat and the fact that I am able to keep all of my mails - sent and received - from roughly september '95, when I started using Eudora on my 7500, through the fall of '96 to '01 when I used and loved Cyberdog, from then on with Mail.app, all of my work email from Outlook on Windows from '99 to the present day.... it thrills me. Sure, my ~/Library/Mail/ is in the multi-gigabyte range... but hard drives are cheap! :cool:

Mav451
Jun 16, 2004, 12:31 PM
Yeah. My mom needs a new laptop and I'll be going out of my way to buy her a used iBook. Just so she'll have a computer that won't be a headache to her. She always comes up to my room asking me to do stuff on the computer for her because she doesn't know on the PC. Like we were selling something and she wanted to know how I made a website with the pictures. I promptly connected my camera, imported into iPhoto, selected the photos, and then export to Webpage. And since I use Transmit, I just opened that up and told it to sync with my Sites folder. Though it could have gone smoother since my web space was filled up and I had to delete some stuff first. But it was awesome.

Then there was a time when she wanted to take back her camera because she didn't like the software. I told her it was Window's fault and not the camera's, so I just connected her camera up and imported into iPhoto. She asked "Can I get my computer to do that?" I said no, it's only for Macs.

And people complain of the lack of software for Macs. Geez, it should be the other way around. She loves iTunes though. I'll probably get her a 500Mhz Icebook. Unless my dad wants to pitch in some money too, which I doubt it, because a 500Mhz would be all she'd need albeit a little slow.

I don't understand why I hear about this problem all the time. Ever since I've gotten XP, transfering photos from the digi cam has been a snap, literally.

All you do is connect it into the USB port--I think ANY computer on the market now has this, provided its no more than 2-3 years old. Wait a few moments while XP installs the necessary software, and then, access the Digicam as a HARD DRIVE.

I have installed 0 drivers myself. 0. XP does it all for me. I used to have a Kodak, old school (and as big as the 5th Harry Potter book)-sized Digi cam from about '99. I just plugged it in, and it brought up the photo transfer wizard.

And just recently, my mother purchased a NEW Sony DSC-T1 (as seen on the commercial with the Aerosmith's Steven Tyler). Again, I haven't installed ANY camera drivers. I plug it in, wait a few moments, and XP automatically detected it and installed it.

So the big mystery is, how are people having problems transfering photos these days? I mean, I can understand if you are still using 98 or Me, but 2000 and XP have greatly improved on USB connectivity and ease of use (98 drove me crazy getting some stuff to work).

-edit-
Ok, I do agree on the bundled camera software--most of the time, it blows (to be blunt). I would strongly advise AGAINST using that software. Its always easier to just copy paste photos from the Digicam (as if it was a hard drive).

hulugu
Jun 16, 2004, 12:33 PM
I hate the marketshare complaint. It's got to be one of the worst out there. It doesn't even make any sense! Why do you think they don't have a big market share?? Because everyone says they don't have a big market share, so they don't buy one! Ugh. No pun intended, but it should be like Apple Jacks: "we eat what we like." Isn't it really as simple as that?


As soon as someone mentions market-share, you should always retort the famous Roger Ebert line: Apple's market share does provide us with an accurate reading of the percentage of reasonable people in our society.

And then give them a big grin.

stevietheb
Jun 16, 2004, 12:36 PM
People generally think I'm "weird," because of my Apple. My mom recently commented that my iBook (and my brother's for that matter) disturbs her. "Laptops are'nt supposed to be white," she said.

hulugu
Jun 16, 2004, 12:37 PM
I don't understand why I hear about this problem all the time. Ever since I've gotten XP, transfering photos from the digi cam has been a snap, literally.

All you do is connect it into the USB port--I think ANY computer on the market now has this, provided its no more than 2-3 years old. Wait a few moments while XP installs the necessary software, and then, access the Digicam as a HARD DRIVE. So the big mystery is, how are people having problems transfering photos these days? I mean, I can understand if you are still using 98 or Me, but 2000 and XP have greatly improved on USB connectivity and ease of use (98 drove me crazy getting some stuff to work).

Windows XP has a tendancy to work oddly with cameras, we deal with several different models (can't get the employees to buy just one thing) and only about half have worked without help. The Mac worked with all of them. Now, this may not mean anything, but when your average computer user runs into a wall with a new device they typically just return it assuming that it won't work. Since the Mac worked with all of them, it becomes hassle free. USB is better on Windows than it used to be, but when I run into a wall it always blows me away.

Mav451
Jun 16, 2004, 12:41 PM
Windows XP has a tendancy to work oddly with cameras, we deal with several different models (can't get the employees to buy just one thing) and only about half have worked without help. The Mac worked with all of them. Now, this may not mean anything, but when your average computer user runs into a wall with a new device they typically just return it assuming that it won't work. Since the Mac worked with all of them, it becomes hassle free. USB is better on Windows than it used to be, but when I run into a wall it always blows me away.

Well I guess its only my empirical experience against yours, but I can tell you that I've also connected 2 of my friends cameras AS WELL: one of the thin Canon PowerShot models (I'm guessing S500) and the other a fatter PowerShot models (A75).

Again, they worked flawlessly. Heck, both of my friends are nearly clueless about using their computers (hardware sense), yet they can access their photos just fine (these guys are photoshop pros though :) ). Both, however, do have XP Pro SP1. I'm wondering if that is the underlying factor, but that is HIGHLY doubtable as the differences in Pro and Home should not involve USB operations -_-

Colonel Panik
Jun 16, 2004, 01:18 PM
Yeah, don't worry about it. Just get on with your work. That's how most of my friends start their interest. Beforehand they're dismissive of the 'cult', but when they see you do so many things, so easily, they become silent for a while, before asking you, "how did you do that?"
And if you access the UNIX core, anyone who knows their stuff will gasp, and by using some AppleScript, you can really impress.
Not to mention that icons are masked and have impecible anti-alias properties on the Mac. Try putting a desktop picture on your PC, and then look at the icons... sheesh!
My PC should out-perform my iMac, but the iMac is always there, ready, responsive. The PC, on the other hand, needs the rolled up newspaper (or a lot of patience) before it's ready to obey. And I just love opening my iBook for people, with UptimeInMenuBar (http://www.delamusse.com/UptimeInMenuBar/index.php3), and having people ask what the 44 days means...

_pb_boi
Jun 16, 2004, 02:19 PM
I think I'm in the opposite situation,

Atm, I fix all my families computers, if there's a problem - and there are lotsa problems, because the main one I fix is an aging PC, that's ridden with just about every technological disease possible, I reckon.

My family, immediate and extended, are all amazed by how easy my Powerbook is to work, and how it looks. Mainly though, it's the 'it just works' factor that impresses them. They're not really au fait with computers, and so that's an attractive proposition.

And while I was writing that, I was called through to my mum's laptop because Outlook was crashing. Again and again. I give up on Windows... I gave up a long time ago. The laptop is nice, Centrino, tiny, cute, but it's just not Mac OS X, and it's just not an Apple...

And today, I found that my neighbour, two doors away, has broadband, and after getting BT UK to run a full line check, from their head offices on the main land, we're too far outta range... despite our neighbour two doors away having it, presumably from the same exchange as his postcode is the same.

Urgh!

Edit: Regarding UptimeInMenuBar, mentioned above - I cry every time I have to reboot from an Apple security update. My cherished Uptime disappears... and I have to start from zero! I'm at 19 days, current record for 1.5mth old Powerbook 12in, and I don't wanna install the last security update... grar!

andy.

Fukui
Jun 16, 2004, 02:29 PM
I don't understand why I hear about this problem all the time. Ever since I've gotten XP, transfering photos from the digi cam has been a snap, literally.

I just have 3 words for you. Dell picture studio.
The worst peice of crapware engineering ever.
Pop in a PhotoCD or copy your photos from you camera into
the Picture Studio, disconnect or eject, and all you pictures are gone!!

SiliconAddict
Jun 16, 2004, 03:03 PM
I don't understand why I hear about this problem all the time. Ever since I've gotten XP, transfering photos from the digi cam has been a snap, literally.

All you do is connect it into the USB port--I think ANY computer on the market now has this, provided its no more than 2-3 years old. Wait a few moments while XP installs the necessary software, and then, access the Digicam as a HARD DRIVE.



Ditto. I have a Sony 505 digicamera and I need no drivers at all. First time I simply plugged in the camera the OS presents you with a prompt as to what you want to do. I select copy picts and it dumps them into the My Pictures directory in My Documents. I've found though that I like using Paint Shop Pro to browse the files directly on the camera and simply delete what I don't want from there. Its not as slick but it give more control over the process.


On a side note does anyone else wish Apple would release iWeb: The web site builder for the rest of us? All the current apps that I know of are kinda intensive in terms of what you can do with it consiquently sometimes I get overloaded with features. Things that I would NEVER use in my site. I really wish Apple would enhance its iApps with such a program. *sighs* Which is pointless for me since I don't have a Mac yet. :(

musicpyrite
Jun 16, 2004, 03:14 PM
You DO realize that the PR Rating that AMD devised was specifically made to go against the "clock cycles are everything" mentality that Intel has reinforced the past 5 years?

Why do you think a 1600+ Athlon XP could compete with the 1.6ghz up to the 2.0ghz Williamette? The Athlon XP was running @ only 1.4Ghz.

*by the same token, I honestly HOPE that you don't buy into Apple's "FLOPS are everything" campaign. In that kind of FUD/Distortion field, you would believe a Single 933 G4 can beat a Dual 2.0Ghz Opteron system, basing your comparison on FLOP performance ALONE:

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/pages/09.html
It still scares me, to this day, that people may read this site and BELIEVE what he is saying.

No, I think I didn't explain myself or you didn't undersand me. What I ment was that AMDs run at a lower clock rate, (than Intels) but the people I talk to think the raw speed of the computer is a direct result of the processor speed. Which is totally worng.

I've never heard of Apple's "FLOPS are everything" campaign, I guess I just missed the whole article about it or I'm too young...

Thanks for the link... It was...intresting... :D

Mav451
Jun 16, 2004, 03:14 PM
I just have 3 words for you. Dell picture studio.
The worst peice of crapware engineering ever.
Pop in a PhotoCD or copy your photos from you camera into
the Picture Studio, disconnect or eject, and all you pictures are gone!!

Did you read my post at all? I said to avoid bundled software. I have yet to see a good piece of bundled photo software, so I'm not surprised that the Dell picture studio is not that good.

I said to use the digicam as a hard drive. There is a difference.
(so technically, there is no true iPhoto equivalent, but for my needs, I don't see a need for it, if all I'm going to do is copy/paste my photos into a folder on my Desktop or My Documents).

musicpyrite
Jun 16, 2004, 03:18 PM
your newbieness shines like a blinding star

I'm going to have to stop metioning 'free' software...
Serously people, if you don't know how to get it, then you don't need to be using the software in the first place...

DO NOT PIRATE SOFTWARE**!!!


**Microsoft software is exempt.

Mav451
Jun 16, 2004, 03:22 PM
No, I think I didn't explain myself or you didn't undersand me. What I ment was that AMDs run at a lower clock rate, (than Intels) but the people I talk to think the raw speed of the computer is a direct result of the processor speed. Which is totally worng.

I've never heard of Apple's "FLOPS are everything" campaign, I guess I just missed the whole article about it or I'm too young...

Thanks for the link... It was...intresting... :D

Well, the FLOPS are everything is something many website's use as a "counter-attack" against the Mhz Myth--which personally is like fighting fire with fire. Both are wrong and misleading -_-. Apple does not necessarily say it as much as Apple proponents do.

What is misleading about FLOPS is that PPC's naturally are efficient in floating point operations, but that does not necessarily mean it is a good performer in other applications (which is what the website WANTS you to believe). FLOPS also, ironically, are by which a computer is deemed a "super computer", and some Apple proponents believe that b/c of the high FLOP performance of G4/G5 processors, that means they are automatically super computers by definition (not just in super computing applications, but in everyday applications as well). That is the problem. Just b/c it is by definition a "super computer", does not mean it is necessarily a good performer in OTHER applications.

MacFan26
Jun 16, 2004, 05:16 PM
As soon as someone mentions market-share, you should always retort the famous Roger Ebert line: Apple's market share does provide us with an accurate reading of the percentage of reasonable people in our society.

And then give them a big grin.

:D I forgot about that Ebert comment. I generally use the "well, no one doesn't buy a Porsche because of their market share" routine.

Colonel Panik
Jun 16, 2004, 06:03 PM
Edit: Regarding UptimeInMenuBar, mentioned above - I cry every time I have to reboot from an Apple security update. My cherished Uptime disappears... and I have to start from zero! I'm at 19 days, current record for 1.5mth old Powerbook 12in, and I don't wanna install the last security update... grar!

andy.

Oh tell me about it. These shouldn't count. ;)

Colonel Panik
Jun 16, 2004, 06:11 PM
On a side note does anyone else wish Apple would release iWeb: The web site builder for the rest of us? All the current apps that I know of are kinda intensive in terms of what you can do with it consiquently sometimes I get overloaded with features. Things that I would NEVER use in my site. I really wish Apple would enhance its iApps with such a program. *sighs* Which is pointless for me since I don't have a Mac yet. :(

I think that's the point of iTools on dotMac.
You can put together quite a nice site that way, and quickly, and they host it (fast servers). And it's 100MB, so you can put lots of photos up there, etc.

I've got a dotMac account and I use it to host my site (but not using iTools). I have another domain name, and I bounce it to the dotMac name.

I just wish that they'd start supporting php and the like.

Belly-laughs
Jun 16, 2004, 07:43 PM
And lets face facts there is something that is just aggravating about someone who thinks their system is god's gift to the world when their computing OS is on less then 2-4% of the computers on this planet. That's not to say that there aren't a good number of PC jerks out there its just that Mac users are more vocal and more in your face about it. Or that's how I see it at any rate. *shrugs*

Yes, I agree.

userannon
Jun 16, 2004, 09:41 PM
Thanks for all your responses...

I just unplugged my PC Desktop and packed it up (moving in two weeks). I figured that it would give me an opportunity to use my 12' PowerBook. I just used the included adaptor to plug in my 19' monitor. Works like a charm.

A friend and I did a little war driving with my Mac, I think that it turned him over a little. We were using Kismac with no external antenna. We were picking up singnals all over the place.

Another friend of mine bought a $1200 Compaq with a 15.4in screen. I brought my PowerBook over to his house. There is no comparison in quality and SIZE...! His notebook is hudge and clunky. He turned.

3 weeks of using my Powerbook has me convinced that Mac is the best option for notebooks. When I went to Fry's Electronics I saw a 12inch Sony Vio for $1700. Once again, no comparison in quality and size.

userannon
Jun 16, 2004, 09:47 PM
I just found out about the Expose' with OSX, the active corners! I set one active corner to show all windows. So nice.

Once again surprised over here. :)

Fukui
Jun 16, 2004, 11:59 PM
Did you read my post at all? I said to avoid bundled software. I have yet to see a good piece of bundled photo software, so I'm not surprised that the Dell picture studio is not that good.


NO, sorry, too many posts to read! And dell picture studio is not even just "that good" its pure cow dung.

I said to use the digicam as a hard drive. There is a difference.
(so technically, there is no true iPhoto equivalent, but for my needs, I don't see a need for it, if all I'm going to do is copy/paste my photos into a folder on my Desktop or My Documents).
I used to do that too (and still do with my originals) since the finder does auto thumbnailing... I think integration with iPhoto and the finder could be better though. I've had people send me a bunch of shortcuts in the mail instread of the actual pictures cause iPhoto's directory management uses shortcuts... something like accessing your iPhoto library from the open/save panels would be nice...

7on
Jun 17, 2004, 12:15 AM
I don't understand why I hear about this problem all the time. Ever since I've gotten XP, transfering photos from the digi cam has been a snap, literally.

All you do is connect it into the USB port--I think ANY computer on the market now has this, provided its no more than 2-3 years old. Wait a few moments while XP installs the necessary software, and then, access the Digicam as a HARD DRIVE.

I have installed 0 drivers myself. 0. XP does it all for me. I used to have a Kodak, old school (and as big as the 5th Harry Potter book)-sized Digi cam from about '99. I just plugged it in, and it brought up the photo transfer wizard.

And just recently, my mother purchased a NEW Sony DSC-T1 (as seen on the commercial with the Aerosmith's Steven Tyler). Again, I haven't installed ANY camera drivers. I plug it in, wait a few moments, and XP automatically detected it and installed it.

So the big mystery is, how are people having problems transfering photos these days? I mean, I can understand if you are still using 98 or Me, but 2000 and XP have greatly improved on USB connectivity and ease of use (98 drove me crazy getting some stuff to work).

-edit-
Ok, I do agree on the bundled camera software--most of the time, it blows (to be blunt). I would strongly advise AGAINST using that software. Its always easier to just copy paste photos from the Digicam (as if it was a hard drive).



Yeah I can't understand how she doesn't understand it either. She gets by though. I think it's more of a "Where are my pictures at" mentality. Also, I don't think her digi cam shows up as a hard drive. I could be mistaken though, as I haven't used it in a while. I know my Kodak (4900) doesn't. I guess she like iPhoto because of the mentality of it's where to store photos and where to import them. Then again she didn't like Kodak's EasyShare picture program.

On a personal note I just don't like XP having to notify you of everything you plug into a computer. Then it has t search for drivers, even if you've used the device before. XP is just bumfuzzled and Windows will remain so until Microsoft goes a Unix-like kernel (for other reasons, I know that UNIX won't solve the plug-n-play bug in XP in case anyone wanted to bash me on that). I could one day see a MS+Sun partnership.


P.S. my Mom is 50 years old btw.

7on
Jun 17, 2004, 12:26 AM
NO, sorry, too many posts to read! And dell picture studio is not even just "that good" its pure cow dung.


I used to do that too (and still do with my originals) since the finder does auto thumbnailing... I think integration with iPhoto and the finder could be better though. I've had people send me a bunch of shortcuts in the mail instread of the actual pictures cause iPhoto's directory management uses shortcuts... something like accessing your iPhoto library from the open/save panels would be nice...

The way iPhoto is set up, Apple is trying to hide the Finder from the user. In fact I could see one day that the iPhoto and iTunes libraries being in hidden folders (if user outcry isn't loud enough). If I need to edit a photo in Photoshop for instance, I drag the photo from iPhoto to the Desktop. I edit and save to the desktop and redrag back into iPhoto and delete the original. Of course there is built in emailing in iPhoto with the large and apparent "email" icon at the bottom of the program.

My mom also thinks I'm some sort of technical computer wizard for being able to slideshow photos on my powerbook. Then she goes on about how she couldn't learn a Mac. Then I tell her, I clicked one button. A button labeled Slideshow. Tell me how that makes me smart? I hate when she does this because she does this in front of other people, mainly because those people will find out how easy it is and start to doubt my intelligence. It's happened before. People assuming I'm a computer dunce for using a Mac. Then I continue fixing their PC like they said nothing.


EDIT: double post = me sorry

Flowbee
Jun 17, 2004, 12:42 AM
If I need to edit a photo in Photoshop for instance, I drag the photo from iPhoto to the Desktop. I edit and save to the desktop and redrag back into iPhoto and delete the original.

There's a simpler way:

In iPhoto preferences you can select "On double-click: Opens in other" and then select Photoshop. That way, when you double-click a photo in iPhoto, it opens it in photoshop automatically for editing. That should save you a few steps.

Flynnstone
Jun 17, 2004, 12:53 AM
I'm a Computer/ Electrical Engineer student at the moment at NC State (and yes those are two separate degrees). He on the other hand likes to think he knows a lot about computers cause he can do some VB and reinstall Windows98 on his friends computers.


Since you (are/will) be creating programs and computers, There is a good book to read called "The Humane Interface". Its written by the original Mac dude. His name escapes me at the moment, but the concepts in the book will help you and the people that use your designs.

Belly-laughs
Jun 17, 2004, 01:58 AM
There's a simpler way:

In iPhoto preferences you can select "On double-click: Opens in other" and then select Photoshop. That way, when you double-click a photo in iPhoto, it opens it in photoshop automatically for editing. That should save you a few steps.

You can also drag the selected picture(s) onto the Photoshop icon in the dock.

matthew24
Jun 17, 2004, 05:41 AM
M$ techies will get insulted because they will be exposed that to maintain a computer ( I mean Apple / OSX ) can be quite easy/comfortable and does not have to be unneccassary complicated as Windows is. And again they have to face they are actually using crap.