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View Full Version : My school says i can't have a Mac. Tell me there wrong.


goodknight411
Jun 14, 2004, 04:48 PM
Hi, I really want to buy either the 12 or 15" powerbook. I've always had windows computer and hate them. But i don't know alot about Mac's. If i get a powerbook for college i'll be on my own with any problems
But when i emailed the College's computer guy (just to make sure it would work) he freaked out. "you cant use it on our network or access the internet with it on campus, you need to stay with PC/Windows format."
Is he right or does he just not know about Mac??:confused: HELP!!!!!!!!!

johng723
Jun 14, 2004, 04:53 PM
what college is this? I know that on our campus many many people use macs and can easily access the network, wireless or wired.

goodknight411
Jun 14, 2004, 04:58 PM
the school is an off-shoot of Arkansas State University. (ASU supports mac, even sells them in the bookstore) The school i'm going to is ASU Mountain Home, but i will be taking ASU classes most of the time even though i'll be at the other campus. (confusing, i know.)

Grimace
Jun 14, 2004, 05:04 PM
sounds like BS to me. If they use a Novell client, they may not support Macs for networked drives etc, but if you plug in an ethernet jack, it should give you the internet without a problem.

dswoodley
Jun 14, 2004, 05:21 PM
sounds like BS to me. If they use a Novell client, they may not support Macs for networked drives etc, but if you plug in an ethernet jack, it should give you the internet without a problem.

Exactly, our IT guys at University of Alaska tell me every time "you can't do that with a mac". But the truth is they mean they don't know how to do it, I can do nearly everything that everyonelse does on a PC. You may have to get inventive and visit these boards often for advice. But I would bet the cost of your laptop that a mac would work just fine - at the very least through virtual pc.

JOD8FY
Jun 14, 2004, 05:37 PM
No problems with networking between Mac and PC. Read up a little on how to do it and show him how it's done ;).

Best wishes,
JOD8FY

zamyatin
Jun 14, 2004, 05:50 PM
No problems with networking between Mac and PC. Read up a little on how to do it and show him how it's done ;).

Only if they deliberately make efforts to exclude your Mac from the network could they make it not work! Which some places do, whether out of spite or incompetence, who knows.

Once your Mac skills are honed, though, you can throw these bums onto the street and take over their jobs. Perhaps that is what they secretly fear, in fact. People who are unqualified, lazy and ignorant really should lose their jobs, particularly in an economy like today's where many skilled techs are underemployed!

MacDawg
Jun 14, 2004, 05:58 PM
Usually such statements are made out of fear or ignorance of the Mac. My job has told me the same thing, but I've made it work in the past, sometimes with Virtual PC, sometimes through other methods. Just depends on how determined you are to make it work. They are betting that you won't be that committed and will just fall in line with the others.

josepho
Jun 14, 2004, 05:58 PM
At my university (University of Strathclyde in Glasgow, UK), the number of Mac users in negligable (in 2 years there I have seen 3 Macs: my Powerbook, a girl student's iBook and a secretary's CRT iMac). They don't do Macs: they were the first "Thinkpad University" in Europe (oh joy!).

I have absolutely no problems using the university network, via AE or Ethernet (though Airport Extreme is much more desirable as you can get a signal outside, allowing you to sit out during rare sunny days and surf the net... though the sunshine makes the screen difficult to see :( )

The only problem I've come across so far is that the have some weird printing system set up. You have to print to various print servers, into which you then insert a prepaid printing card, and print out your document. The system is called Pharoah, and although I've found the company's site and downloaded the relevant Mac software, no-one in the university can seem to give me any of the settings (to be honest, I just need one network address... which no-one seems to have). A typical conversation at the IT "helpdesk" goes like this:
Me: Hiya, I wonder if you could help me set up my computer for network printing
Person: Sure. If you just open Control Panel from the Start Menu
Me: Actually, it's a Mac I'm using
Person: *look of bewilderment/disdain* Oh, a Mac...
Me: I actually just need the address of the Pharoah print server
Person: Have you had a look at this pamphlet on setting up printing?
Me: Yes. It only applies to Windows based computers.
Person: Oh. *silence* (to another woman) Janice, do you know how to set up printing on a Mac?
Janice: *inaudible*
Person: The only address we have is this one *points to the location of the automated Windows printing script*
Me: I've tried that already, it doesn't work.
Person: *blank look* Sorry.
Me: (to self) Why did I waste my time?

I've now resorted to sending files by email to my university email account, then logging onto a Windows PC in the library and printing it out from there... But this is highly impractical when the library is busy, and there's a queue for computers. Hopefully when I go back after the summer I'll be able to get it sorted...

So, looks like the guy was feeding your BS borne of ignorance. You'll be fine using a Mac on the university network - for ALMOST everything ;)

TheWitePony
Jun 14, 2004, 06:08 PM
Yes, this guy is an ignorant fool. You should have little or no problem once you learn the OS. I go to NC State, and we have a large Unix/Linux system, which is great cause I got a Unix terminal built right into OSX! Haha, all those PC users have to install this awkward (and GOD is it SLOW!!) 3rd party unix emulator to login! :D

yoda13
Jun 14, 2004, 06:17 PM
This guy is just ignorant. Don't let him dissuade you from getting a Mac. You should have no problems at all. I was told the same drivel at my Uni, even though across campus they use Macs exclusively in the education and psychology depts. I have had nary a problem in my five years of undergrad and grad work. I'll be you don't either.

goodknight411
Jun 14, 2004, 06:30 PM
Thanks for all the replys. WHat about the schools security software? Could that cause problems?

Thanks,

Jess :D

walshmd
Jun 14, 2004, 06:32 PM
I predict you'll have FAR fewer problems using a Mac on a "windows only" network, than by going with a windows machine.

I use my powerbook on multiple business and university networks, as well as in hotel rooms, airports, and coffee shops and have had zero problems.

phonemonkey
Jun 14, 2004, 07:18 PM
If the IT guys are correct (just for the sake of argument) wouldn't hooking a router up take care of the problem?

Chip NoVaMac
Jun 14, 2004, 07:22 PM
Usually such statements are made out of fear or ignorance of the Mac. My job has told me the same thing, but I've made it work in the past, sometimes with Virtual PC, sometimes through other methods. Just depends on how determined you are to make it work. They are betting that you won't be that committed and will just fall in line with the others.

Actually it may be to ease tech support calls (how ever blind these people may be).

I am running into the same thing at work. And all I want in access to the DSL internet line and the mail server. Our web-mistress is still forced to have a PC to access the internal programs and "officially" the email. I might be able to get her to "help" me get around the issues that they have.

Horrortaxi
Jun 14, 2004, 07:56 PM
I got that same song and dance at work a couple months ago. Over the weekend they finished wiring my building so I came in Monday morning and plugged in my iBook then started sending my email though the MS Exchange server, accessing network drives and printers, and (of course) surfing the internet. Around 11:00 the head of IT came around to tell me he would have to order me a PC because my Mac isn't compatible with the network. I asked him what the incompatibility was and he (with no details and a shakey voice) said I couldn't access the server. I told him I had done it already. Then he changed his story and told me that I couldn't access "all the features." I asked what I'd be missing on the Mac and he told me he'd get me a PC as fast as he could. A month later my PC arrived and I couldn't even use it. The Mac did everything better. The PC got marginally better when I started booting it off of a Knoppix CD.

Fear, spite, ignorance--these are the general reasons behind anything an IT guy tells you about your evil Mac.

virividox
Jun 14, 2004, 08:07 PM
The official stand of my uni on macs is they arent supported on the network. But i dont want to use novell anyway so all i need is access to the net. Your mac can do that for sure, but it probably cant get novell unless you buy the mac client for it.

upperblue79
Jun 14, 2004, 08:19 PM
goodknight411: UCA tried to tell my friend the same thing. They kept telling him that a Mac wouldn't work on their network etc. He had already bought his 15" powerbook and was pretty worried, so he kept calling and finally spoke to one of the head IT guys there who told him that about 50% of the staff uses macs and about 35% of the student body and he would be fine, so i would imagine you should be too.

mkrishnan
Jun 14, 2004, 08:32 PM
Thanks for all the replys. WHat about the schools security software? Could that cause problems?

Well, so this is some kind of extension campus up in the hills, right? Do you take extension courses where you have to do realtime video or something with the people down in the valley? :)

How specific are the PC requirements? I guess if they tell everyone, get EXACTLY THIS PC in THIS CONFIGURATION and then flash the hard drive with exactly their administered software to make some kind of special link work, then its understandable from their standpoint.

If they're just asking you to do Office/e-Mail/Web etc, then I agree with everyone else.

Les Kern
Jun 14, 2004, 09:50 PM
Job security. If they "allowed" Macs, the liar would be out of work. I'm a tech director, and I've run into this a lot in my life. I've had consultants plain-out lie to me: "You can't get that data off this Novell machine", Macs can't get on the internet here.", "You'll have trouble printing.", "You won't be able to share documents." I've heard it all. One day a guy lied to me, I called him on and proved him wrong, and told him he was to leave immediately. The profit margin on PC's is HUGE compared to Mac, so I've had companies come in and almost BEG me to switch. I ask them why, and EXACTLY why. Every point they make is shot down mostly without comment. One time I just lost it, and said something like: "You want my business, and want it so bad you'd be willing to send me down your path when it's clear we are a Mac shop, that all of our users are Mac users, that our students are Mac users, that all of our training has been in Macs, all of our resourses are Mac-centric, but you don't seem to address the impact. That leads me to believe you don't care, and a buck is a buck to you. Get out". That was a few years ago, before Macs became (now) probably the best path that any reasonable person can take. This year I did THIS, (http://www.mchs.net/techweb/2004-5TechPlan.htm) 630K worth of Macs. That's one damn building.
If you want the Mac, get it. We will help you ROCK at that college, then you can go to the liar and say "My Mac works fine...How do you justify your existence?"

goodknight411
Jun 15, 2004, 08:32 AM
Well, so this is some kind of extension campus up in the hills, right? Do you take extension courses where you have to do realtime video or something with the people down in the valley? :)
Yeah.
The computer requirements are pretty general. The website even has mac requirements listed, so i don't think that will be a problem.

pjkelnhofer
Jun 15, 2004, 08:41 AM
Just for fun I checked out your school's website (http://www.asumh.edu/index.htm) and found the system requirements for online classes (http://www.asumh.edu/Online%20Student%20Services/Hardware%20Requirements.htm) it seems odd that they would support Mac for that and then tell you cannot use on on their network (which makes even less sense).
I would guess that their IT guy has no Mac experience so he has no idea what he is talking about.

blue&whiteman
Jun 15, 2004, 08:45 AM
no one can tell you what kind of computer you have to use. thats so ridiculous that its insane! the guy actually freaked out? internet will work 100% for sure. I don't know anything about networking though but I know you can easily network to pc's with panther.

Chaszmyr
Jun 15, 2004, 08:54 AM
PC users grow up being taught "Mac is an incompatible platform full of proprietary formats". This is infact just not true; it is all just propoganda to maintain Windows' marketshare.

pjkelnhofer
Jun 15, 2004, 09:04 AM
PC users grow up being taught "Mac is an incompatible platform full of proprietary formats". This is infact just not true; it is all just propoganda to maintain Windows' marketshare.

I don't even think it is as intentional as you make it sound, also I think Apple has to take some of the blame for not playing up just how compatible Macs are.

I think for the most part it is simple ignorance on the part of PC users. What is sad is how many IT people think it is true.

gbojim
Jun 15, 2004, 09:40 AM
Although there is likely no technical reason a Mac cannot connect to the network, you may want to check that there is no policy that allow Windows systems only on the network. As ridiculous as is sounds, I've been in many places that have such a policy.

Zaty
Jun 15, 2004, 10:19 AM
I don't even think it is as intentional as you make it sound, also I think Apple has to take some of the blame for not playing up just how compatible Macs are.

I think for the most part it is simple ignorance on the part of PC users. What is sad is how many IT people think it is true.

For a long time, the Mac world was a closed system, so in a way you can't blame people who, due to a lack of interest, have not realised that things have changed.

hal9000
Jun 15, 2004, 10:40 AM
the school is an off-shoot of Arkansas State University. (ASU supports mac, even sells them in the bookstore) The school i'm going to is ASU Mountain Home, but i will be taking ASU classes most of the time even though i'll be at the other campus. (confusing, i know.)

I'm an Arkansas Mac user too. I've never attended ASU, but I've had some experience with computer departments on their campuses.

I'd like to speak to the incompetent fool who told you that Macs cannot connect to the campus network. Please post his telephone number here.

Horrortaxi
Jun 15, 2004, 10:46 AM
PC users grow up being taught "Mac is an incompatible platform full of proprietary formats". This is infact just not true; it is all just propoganda to maintain Windows' marketshare.
Not only is it not true, it is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

dswoodley
Jun 15, 2004, 11:01 AM
Not only is it not true, it is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Are you saying the premise isn't true or the anecdote isn't true?

leftbanke7
Jun 15, 2004, 11:03 AM
I am so glad I go to a Mac friendly university. The computer lab is about 60%/40% PC/Mac and the funny thing is that the Macs are always full and there is always room to get onto a PC. I am chomping at the bit to finally get to my film production classes just to see what Macs can really do. It's unfortunate that they aren't using FCP but it's not a perfect world.

7on
Jun 15, 2004, 01:44 PM
I am so glad I go to a Mac friendly university. The computer lab is about 60%/40% PC/Mac and the funny thing is that the Macs are always full and there is always room to get onto a PC. I am chomping at the bit to finally get to my film production classes just to see what Macs can really do. It's unfortunate that they aren't using FCP but it's not a perfect world.

lol, the opposite here. My college has Macs and PCs, but more people use the PCs. The Macs are ALWAYS open. Noone uses them. Many because Macs can't use the Print server, which is why the IT people should have stuck with OS9. At least then you could print.

http://its.truman.edu/documentation/resnet/mac%5Fpas.stm

Horrortaxi
Jun 15, 2004, 04:42 PM
Are you saying the premise isn't true or the anecdote isn't true?
I'm saying the Microsoft world is full of propriatary formats and broken standards yet that is the argument that is used most often against Apple computers.

dswoodley
Jun 15, 2004, 04:57 PM
I'm saying the Microsoft world is full of propriatary formats and broken standards yet that is the argument that is used most often against Apple computers.

Just making sure! :) Personally, I had never heard the argument from anyone that Apple is no good because it uses proprietary format, so I wasn't sure.

silentrage
Jun 15, 2004, 11:25 PM
I would suggest you dig for more info. Like someone else posted, I would warrant a guess that many of the faculty and staff use Macs.

At my university I would say in the College of Education it is abour 50/50 Macs/PCs. We have computer labs dedicated to both and one lab with Macs & PCs in the same room (oh my! :eek: ) Also, the Journalism school uses Macs as well.

My suggestion is to not stop or take that one person's word for truth.

topicolo
Jun 16, 2004, 01:02 AM
The only problem I've come across so far is that the have some weird printing system set up. You have to print to various print servers, into which you then insert a prepaid printing card, and print out your document. The system is called Pharoah, and although I've found the company's site and downloaded the relevant Mac software, no-one in the university can seem to give me any of the settings (to be honest, I just need one network address... which no-one seems to have). A typical conversation at the IT "helpdesk" goes like this:

Person: The only address we have is this one *points to the location of the automated Windows printing script*
Me: I've tried that already, it doesn't work.



You should be able to open the script in windows notepad or wordpad and find the print server address in there. click on the script in windows, hold down shift and right click the icon. Choose "open with" and choose notepad or wordpad from the list.

good luck

jaw04005
Jun 16, 2004, 07:40 PM
the school is an off-shoot of Arkansas State University. (ASU supports mac, even sells them in the bookstore) The school i'm going to is ASU Mountain Home, but i will be taking ASU classes most of the time even though i'll be at the other campus. (confusing, i know.)

Dude. I go to ASU-J now, but I went to ASU-B and that guy is full of crap. What are you majoring in?

The College of Journalism uses practically nothing but Macs at ASU. I didn't realize the Mountain Home satellite campus was not under direction of ASU-Beebe like the other satellites.

LOL, http://www.asumh.edu/indexns.htm ---- "Best Viewed with Internet Explorer" button is on the first page, NOW we know the kind of idiots he is dealing with :)

sethwerkheiser
Jun 19, 2004, 10:52 AM
This reminds me of like, the THIRD day that I owned a Mac. I brought my new G3 iBook to work, cuz I knew they had a wireless network. I set up a new location, selected Airport Network, then it prompted me for a password.

I went to the IT guy and asked to get on the network. He said, "Oh, you'll probably need to install the VPN network client, and download the latest..." blah blah blah...

I told him, "No, I'm already on the network. I just need the password." He gave it to me (we're a small shop, and he's a nice guy) and I was on the web in no time (off the clock of course! haha)

He's trying to sell this load of bull to my friend at work who's considering buying a PowerBook. He also has a Sony Vaio at home, hooked up to Cable modem. The IT guy at work is like, "Oh man, networking and sharing an internet connection between a PC and Mac is difficult..."

That night I plugged an ethernet cord into my BaseStation and was sharing a DIAL-UP connection. Streaming iTunes from the Mac in the kithen. On the web...

Okay, so this is all off topic from what you're talking about... but it's right on point with IT/IS/MIS directors that think Macs are incompatiable with PCs, etc. Buy the Mac. The MacRumors community will certainly help you get it rolling ;)

goodknight411
Jun 19, 2004, 06:21 PM
thanks everybody,
Very helpful. :D Now i just have to decide what to do. :rolleyes: