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arn
Jul 12, 2002, 01:40 PM
ThinkSecret gives (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/g3imacg4towers.html) August 13th as the date of the new PowerMacs, with speeds up to 1.2GHz, and Jaguar.

August 12th is the date of the end of Apple's current rebate promotions.

drastik
Jul 12, 2002, 01:47 PM
I could see it as the shipping date, it makes since because of Jaguar. Now, ifthis is true, and Apple wants to push the remaiing stock, I think we can also expect something new that everyone can use. Some iApp maybe, or something anway, that would entice people to get a discontinued model even though the new ones are around the corner.

topicolo
Jul 12, 2002, 01:50 PM
Booo! I want 1.5Ghz Dual G4s!!!

Moonlight
Jul 12, 2002, 01:53 PM
Wow, what an amazing story !! They saw the date that the promotion ended and said "as confirmed Apple has tentatively" that the next day it will come out with new power macs...journalism at its finest...

agreenster
Jul 12, 2002, 01:53 PM
How original.

Its the easiest prediction in the world to say something new is coming out the day promotions for older products end.

What I want to know is why Apple isnt coming out with RDRAM systems.

Or better yet, the G5. I think its safe to say we will never see the 64 bit G5

iH8Quark
Jul 12, 2002, 01:54 PM
Gosh...I wonder how they came up with that? :rolleyes:

;)

jbrown
Jul 12, 2002, 01:59 PM
...BUT ANNOUNCED AT MWNY:cool: :cool: :cool:

Funkatation
Jul 12, 2002, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by agreenster


What I want to know is why Apple isnt coming out with RDRAM systems.



RDRAM is not a technology that apple should get into. Its more expensive than DDR SDRAM, far more complicated, has a higher latency, etc. Plus and RMBS has an FTC investigation going for them currently. The only reason the Pentium 4 + i850E shines with RDRAM is because its a dual channel solution. The current DDR solutions are just single channel (except for nVidia's nForce, but its not a P4 chipset, just an athlon and due to architechtural issues of the platform, doesn't help out too much) Intel's upcoming chipsets will feature Dual Channel DDR, and I believe then we will see the fall of rambus. I'm sure hoping for it ! :)

giovanni
Jul 12, 2002, 02:17 PM
dudes,
MWNY is already known everywhere as the "largest" ever, furthermore it is concomitant to the opening of the NYC Apple Store: do you really think Apple will just announce a couple of updates to a couple of iSuck applications ???? If they don't come up with some serious new pro hardware (thereby admitting failure - because they must have planned to) then they for sure would announce it.

billiam0878
Jul 12, 2002, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by topicolo
Booo! I want 1.5Ghz Dual G4s!!!

1.4's or 1.5's are still possible as Think Secret said "speed-bumps of at least 1.2GHz" and CNET said "in excess of 1.2GHz." Here's hoping,

Bill

Megaquad
Jul 12, 2002, 02:26 PM
thats wonderfull, it's on my birthday! i am trully touched!!
it would be a nice gift..
but noone will buy it to me :(
i'll never have hi-end powermac:(..whats the point in living?:rolleyes:

sjs
Jul 12, 2002, 02:45 PM
I think they will soon drop it because its so outdated. But Think Secret says they are dropping it because of LOW MARGINS???
That's stupid. This design is 5 years old and pure profit.

This is from the Apple Store, the Indigo iMac:
Off to the side I put a guesstimation of what they pay for a component.

$799.00
500MHz PowerPC G3 $50?
256K L2 cache @ 500 MHz
128MB SDRAM $30?
20GB Ultra ATA drive $30?
CD-ROM Drive $25?
RAGE 128 Ultra w/16MB $35?
10/100BASE-T Ethernet $5?
56K fax modem $15?
15-inch display $40?
(13.8-inch VIS)
Harman Kardon Speakers $5?
VGA Video Mirroring
2 USB & 2 FireWire ports
AirPort Ready

The case and ports... $25?
Assembly $25?
Box and Shipping $25

This is a machine they have MAYBE $300 in and it sells for $750 to $800 at the Store. By the way, I made up those cost numbers. My point is just that this computer is terribly outdated but highly profitable. When they drop it I'll bet the eMac at $1000 to $1100 will grow in volume and also be VERY profitable. There's probably no way they have over $500 in an eMac.

Kid Red
Jul 12, 2002, 02:46 PM
Last week they said towers in excess of 1.2ghz and now they are saying of at least 1.2ghz. So which is it? 1.2ghz at the low end or 1.2 at the high end? I thought this was confirmed a few days ago and now this new info is confirmed. So which is the real confrimation? Excess of or at least 1.2ghz?

Some confirmation :rolleyes:

What's next week's confirmation?

Macmaniac
Jul 12, 2002, 02:48 PM
If Apple does not update the pro line I will be so pi$$ed! Whats the point of an Expo when all you release is a few new apps and no new computer:( I bet all these are untrue and there are powermacs around the corner. If they do update to 1.4ghz then I think there is a %50 chance of a speed bumped iMac.

Post #750 only 250 more to go;)

sjs
Jul 12, 2002, 03:07 PM
Being optimistic I choose to believe all these rumors of the past few days are too pessimistic...here's why:

What good on earth is it to spend tens of millions of dollars on the biggest advertising campaign in years at a time when your product announcements will generate negative publicity?????

I cannot believe Steve has that in mind. For that reason I still expect MWNY to have all these things:

1. iMac speed bumps + 17"
2. eMac speed bumps
3. bumps to iBook and/or TiBook
4. something for iPod
5. at the very least PowerMac announcement.
6. Also don't forget, while Jaguar is well-known to us, its a very big thing with the speed and feature changes. Bigger than Win 95 to Win 98 really.
7. Plus at least one more thing, some surprise, something for the digital hub.

Hemingray
Jul 12, 2002, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Macmaniac
If Apple does not update the pro line I will be so pi$$ed!

You and me both, brother! You'd think after the "What? That's it? No new PowerMacs?" in January, they'd get it together for this expo! It seems like they're shunning us pro users in order to woo the consumer with the iMac. They can't seriously expect me to shell out $3K for a system that's been running old technologies for a couple years now! Something's got to give soon.

djniche
Jul 12, 2002, 03:13 PM
I agree we are getting at least an announcement of the new G4 in Macworld NY. It makes sense for this machines to be shown not only on the show but also on the new Ny stores that are going to open.

I also see the 1.2, 1.4 and 1.5mhz specs --

I'm looking to upgrade from a g4 400mhz to a 1G at least
My 400 is still kicking b... and I can do every graphic design task without a problem. I also have a 400mhz but a G3 at work and i works great. I dont think many pc owners can say the same about their P1 or P2 machines.


:cool:

johnpaul191
Jul 12, 2002, 03:21 PM
today's new epson printer rebate is good with the purchase of an imac, emac and ibook. since the rebate goes past wednesday can we assume the only upgrades will be to the TiBook and the iPod?

i still think the rebate on G4 systems is not much indication of MWNYC. if we do not see powermacs at MW, then i would guess the end of the rebate is the next logical date. i guess it also depends on the 10.2 true shipping date that steve is supposed to announce next week. even with these potential dates on the schedule, i would not be shocked to see something next week. if they do more than a speedbump, then i would think there are good reasons to have all the press/consumers getting a hands on view.

Rocketman
Jul 12, 2002, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by djniche

I'm looking to upgrade from a g4 400mhz to a 1G at least
My 400 is still kicking b... and I can do every graphic design task without a problem. I also have a 400mhz but a G3 at work and i works great. I dont think many pc owners can say the same about their P1 or P2 machines.


:cool:

This needs to be posted to peecee sites.

Rocketman

http://v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

elensil
Jul 12, 2002, 03:40 PM
The worst case scenario would be that PowerMacs would be announced but not RELEASED on MWNY. Released in August is a posibility...

DavPeanut
Jul 12, 2002, 03:40 PM
No one really talks about what software is coming. I think that apple will release Final Cut Pro 4, DVD Studio Pro 2, and a Pro audio program.

elensil
Jul 12, 2002, 03:42 PM
This needs to be posted to peecee sites.

Rocketman

Hey Rocketman, I have never seen a PC site. Are there any www.DUDESwithDELLS.com:D

dongmin
Jul 12, 2002, 03:53 PM
You guys are all in denial. PowerMacs will not make the Expo, and no the world is not going to end.

Apple wants to separate the announcement of new hardware from these big events. Why? Because they don't want people to stop buying their hardware a month before every major show.

The PowerMac, iBook, and Powerbook were all updated outside these events. And the same goes with this round of Powermacs. They'll be out in August, when they're good and ready, and not at some arbitrary deadline set by the Expos.

crassusad44
Jul 12, 2002, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by billiam0878


1.4's or 1.5's are still possible as Think Secret said "speed-bumps of at least 1.2GHz" and CNET said "in excess of 1.2GHz." Here's hoping,

Bill

YES!!! I got it! 2.2 GHz PowerMacs! As Think Secret are predicting... "speed-bumps of at least 1.2GHz". A speed-bump of at least 1.2 GHz...... :eek:

NICE!!!!! :p :p :p :D :D :)

synergy
Jul 12, 2002, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by djniche
I agree we are getting at least an announcement of the new G4 in Macworld NY. It makes sense for this machines to be shown not only on the show but also on the new Ny stores that are going to open.

I also see the 1.2, 1.4 and 1.5mhz specs --

I'm looking to upgrade from a g4 400mhz to a 1G at least
My 400 is still kicking b... and I can do every graphic design task without a problem. I also have a 400mhz but a G3 at work and i works great. I dont think many pc owners can say the same about their P1 or P2 machines.


:cool:

I've got the same G4 as you. Just recently popped in a cheap Radeon into the machine. Been thinking of bumping up the RAM and I may add a processor upgrade. The 800Mhz or 1Ghz ones just announced a short while back. But if Apple puts out pro machines with 1.2, 1.4 and more speeds then I will skip the upgrades and plan on a new tower soon. Especially needs DDR. If its just a 1.2 top end system then skip it, I will upgrade my CPU.

MattB
Jul 12, 2002, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by elensil
The worst case scenario would be that PowerMacs would be announced but not RELEASED on MWNY. Released in August is a posibility...

This is the case with many of Apple's products. The new iMac was released slowly too.

MattB
Jul 12, 2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
Apple wants to separate the announcement of new hardware from these big events. Why? Because they don't want people to stop buying their hardware a month before every major show.

Than maybe SJ should stop giving keynote speeches. Every Mac user knows that if SJ is going to give a speech, there must be a product update involved. Apple could merely attend and support the Expos without playing a major role.

Escher
Jul 12, 2002, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by MattB
Apple could merely attend and support the Expos without playing a major role.

If Jobs didn't traditionally speak at Macworld shows and Apple didn't make a big fuss about them, nobody would attend Macworld shows!

Low profile = low attendance = no good.

Escher

jelloshotsrule
Jul 12, 2002, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by DavPeanut
No one really talks about what software is coming. I think that apple will release Final Cut Pro 4, DVD Studio Pro 2, and a Pro audio program.

you do realize how recently fcp 3 came out, right?

given the time b/w 1 and 2 and 2 and 3. i don't see that

the others i could see....

djniche
Jul 12, 2002, 05:15 PM
I've got the same G4 as you. Just recently popped in a cheap Radeon into the machine. Been thinking of bumping up the RAM and I may add a processor upgrade. The 800Mhz or 1Ghz ones just announced a short while back. But if Apple puts out pro machines with 1.2, 1.4 and more speeds then I will skip the upgrades and plan on a new tower soon. Especially needs DDR. If its just a 1.2 top end system then skip it, I will upgrade my CPU.

I did hear about the upgrades cards to 1ghz - any idea how much it costs?

i hope that 1.2 is not the top speed - that would be such a mediocre upgrade. I'm hoping 1.4 or 1.5 at least.

I'm debating wheter to get a 667mhz powerbook or upgrade to a 800mhz or 1ghz Powermac. I just sold my wintel laptop and im in need of a mobile system.
Upgrade PowerMac or go with the powerbook? any suggestions

daRAT
Jul 12, 2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by Rocketman


This needs to be posted to peecee sites.

Rocketman



Actually, a lot of Pentium and PII machines are working just fine. Heck our civil engineering dept has a 'frankenstein" P200 hooked up to the network to pull mp3's from another computer. It acts as a music server for out dept :]

The backup server for 60 people is a Pentium II 266, running win98, (which has no user login limit *heh*). Only now are we going to replace it :\

The best computer is one that does the job..period.

BTW I still love my Mac :D

gopher
Jul 12, 2002, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by billiam0878


1.4's or 1.5's are still possible as Think Secret said "speed-bumps of at least 1.2GHz" and CNET said "in excess of 1.2GHz." Here's hoping,

Bill

Ooops, that's a misquote...it says now:

"speed-bumps to at least 1.2GHz"

oh well...and now I thought they were saying "of at least 1.2 Ghz" which would mean at least we'll see 2.2 Ghz PowerMacs.

daRAT
Jul 12, 2002, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by djniche


I did hear about the upgrades cards to 1ghz - any idea how much it costs?

i hope that 1.2 is not the top speed - that would be such a mediocre upgrade. I'm hoping 1.4 or 1.5 at least.

I'm debating wheter to get a 667mhz powerbook or upgrade to a 800mhz or 1ghz Powermac. I just sold my wintel laptop and im in need of a mobile system.
Upgrade PowerMac or go with the powerbook? any suggestions

http://www.macs4all.com/Merchant/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=T&Product_Code=PWL-PFG4-1000C

Has a nice low price on the card. I am waiting tho for someone else to try them and some benchmarking, before I tear the Cube apart :)

Grokgod
Jul 12, 2002, 05:48 PM
Dongmin , you are such a DONG!

So your saying that NO announcements at MW will make people buy units before a MW.

Why wont They just stop buying before AUgust!>?

This is different HOW?

Its obvious the PowerMacs need a huge bump and people don't buy when they feel something needs a BUMP, like this. THey wait and make due with what they have LIKE SO many people here are doing and saying!

Wether APPLE stops announcements at MW's or makes them whenever, is really just shuffling around the point of interest and people are still going to look at MW for news and they are still going to wait for the upgrades.

No wait your right.

Now that you have said this theory.

I have decided to NOT wait any more and am going to buy a DUMBASS old tech 1 giger with SDram and for TOP DOLLAR! ! ! !
I am NOT going to wait another month or any amount of time.

I am going to just jump right in and buy THOUSANDS of dollars worth of computer tech that in a month or perhaps a few will be Worthless compared to the NEW tech that has been years in the coming!

ANd be saddled with a slow unit while others that have common sense will be getting the newest and the best for the same price that I paid or less.

Damn your theory of "Get over it" has worked!

NOT!

I am NOT buying anything till the PowerMacs enter the real world of current computer specs! I don't care how long it takes! Get inthe bunker, Kids!

boobers
Jul 12, 2002, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
You guys are all in denial. PowerMacs will not make the Expo, and no the world is not going to end.

Apple wants to separate the announcement of new hardware from these big events. Why? Because they don't want people to stop buying their hardware a month before every major show.

The PowerMac, iBook, and Powerbook were all updated outside these events. And the same goes with this round of Powermacs. They'll be out in August, when they're good and ready, and not at some arbitrary deadline set by the Expos.

What makes you think consumers want to buy tired G4 models when they know(based on the Xserve) that the next tower is going to be way better with newer technologies? ...of course ppl expect to see DDR in the next tower line..of course they expect to see a faster FSB! Its a given! The buying has virtually stopped on Power Macs so they can try to sell them all they like but consumers aren't buying..we all KNOW about the Xserve! We are all waiting for something better!!

I'd be willing to bet that 35-50% of Pro mac users know about MWNY and anticipate new towers since the current models are old skool and Apple typically releases new hardware on that day. The buying hasn't stopped because of these rumor sites, but rather, due to the well informed Mac users who want more from Apple. We are a tightly knit community that speaks to each other.
Also, I am trying to be objective towards the rumor sites now because i think Apple has started a misinformation campaign to the rumor sites...some of the rumors are true for the purpose of preparing the Mac fanatics for the worst..Some rumors may be false for the purpose of cleaning out the old G4 inventory! This is the benefit Apple has uipon you the Mac luvin Fanatic! They can play with your Mac lovin heads until the last moment.

so on that note...lets all just wait another 4 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes until MacWorld Expo Keynote k?

DonMateo
Jul 12, 2002, 05:59 PM
Woah, not so fast.

And another iApp? Like that's going to make up for the lack of current hardware?

STEVE! You're killing me! How can I get people to switch if all I have to offer them is a T-REX 500?

Q-bert
Jul 12, 2002, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by sjs
I cannot believe Steve has that in mind. For that reason I still expect MWNY to have all these things:

1. iMac speed bumps + 17"
2. eMac speed bumps
3. bumps to iBook and/or TiBook
4. something for iPod
5. at the very least PowerMac announcement.
6. Also don't forget, while Jaguar is well-known to us, its a very big thing with the speed and feature changes. Bigger than Win 95 to Win 98 really.
7. Plus at least one more thing, some surprise, something for the digital hub.
I think you're being WAY too optimisitic. You're expecting upgrades to the iMac, eMac, iBook, PowerBook, iPod, AND PowerMac - in ONE SHOW? Plus a new product, too? That's Apple's entire line of hardware except for the XServe!

I think we'll see one or two of these things, but by no means all. It's impossible, no company could do or would do anything like this...

MikeH
Jul 12, 2002, 07:09 PM
Everyone goes on about these Macworld events affecting peoples buying descions, but in reality it's only the hardcore minority (such as readers of this forum) that are even aware of these events - the average Joe has no real idea of when the new Macs are going to appear - all they care about is whats on the shelf, how much it cost and what it looks like (Apples strong point).

The simple fact is why not release products at a major trade event if it coincides with Apples time table.

This doesn't avoid the fact that Apple needs to update it's pro product soon as it's simply being left behind by the PC market. Good CPU speed hikes, DDR Ram and a 133mhz MoBo at least are required. DVD-R's all round would be icing on the cake (for me anyway).

As for the iMac, why a 17" screen? Why not just increase the resolution to 1280 x 1024 (or similar to the PowerBook screen), or there abouts, that would make it far more usable.

solvs
Jul 12, 2002, 07:11 PM
Anyone else notice that a lot of the rebates and discounts are for Displays and other products? There could be new PM Towers (I hope, I hope, I hope).

I need a new machine.

I want something nice though if I'm spending thousands of $$$. DDR-Ram, ATA/100+, 120 GB+ hard drives, etc.

OWC - http://eshop.macsales.com - is taking orders for the 800 MHz - 1 GHz upgrades.

Can't wait to get a FW Pro case and one of those new 200 GB Western Digital Hard Drives.

carta
Jul 12, 2002, 07:35 PM
Because Adobe and Macromedia have pulled out next week's show, perhaps they expect a dud. If it is a dud--just news about the PC attendance at their stores, a couple i-app updates, and maybe a Dalmation or Flower Power skin for the Pro towers--then Adobe and Macromedia have no reason to believe there'll be excitement about what *they* have to sell.

I think the only reason that people tune into the shows for h/w announcements is that such announcements come so infrequently. On the PC side, things seem to always be in a state of development and release to the buying public. I mean, AMD releases a faster chip and the PC owner can get it and upgrade his/her computer that evening.

We Mac people are always waiting to be fed. Like a dog waiting for its master to return home and break out the Gaines Burgers.

barkmonster
Jul 12, 2002, 08:36 PM
I've been sticking with my 300Mhz G3 for years now, waiting for a mac to come out that will really blow me away, I only need maybe a 4 fold speed increase in all my apps and more expansion and I'll think about saving for a new mac.

I hope the predictions of 1, 1.2 dual and 1.4 dual with are what we're getting, DDR aswell because if I set my sights on a dual 1.2Ghz, I've got a lot to look forward to because I'll never afford a new mac till march anyway, it's a dead certainty that I'll get the performance I want by then.

In the past we've seen a 733 overclocked to 867Mhz and that was the next mac, then 867 - 1Ghz, then 1Ghz - 1.2Ghz. I hope we see something more than another predictable speed bump with a faster, DDR motherboard to make it look more powerful this time.

All the tests I've seen indicate that DDR only offers about a 10% speed gain, couple that with 1.4Ghz chips and the high end will be pretty damn fast with the mid range being more than adequate and the entry level being okay but not perfect (only if they leave off the L3 like they do now).

I want the kind of power where I can run half a dozen software synths with no dropped notes alongside protools LE with the maximum amount of tracks at 24bit quality and not hit a brickwall at some stage having to cut back on effects to free up cpu cycles for other tasks. I know from benchmarks that a dual 800Mhz G4 is about 4 times more powerful than my mac, a dual 1Ghz G4 would be even better but for cost reasons I've just got to wait till we see a mac with at least a 1.2Ghz G4 as a mid range or even entry level model so I can get one for about 1,500 or less. Any more than that and I'm still waiting for something better to come along. At least if I know the entry level is 1Ghz with DDR I can safely add a CPU upgrade without worrying that I could get an overall faster mac for a few hundred more. Right now a new mac doesn't seem worth it, a used dual 500 would make more sense for me at present.

Of course this whole thread is based on yet another rumour and I've got the same "I'll beleive it when I see it" attitude to it as all the other rumours but there's been so much talk of a 1.4 or 1.5Ghz high end system that I've begun to hope for a 1.2Ghz mid range model so I've got something worth buying to aim for as an end of life deal after the next range of powermacs come out next year.

Rocketman
Jul 12, 2002, 08:37 PM
A long time ago back in the olden days when BeOS was likely to succeed, there was talk of G3 processors being made to interoperate for MP systems. However when the rubber (or silicon) hit the road only the G4 was really set-up for that and only the vaporware G5 was optimized for it.

BUT with the EOL of the G3 coming soon and with the likely delays and unsuitability of the G5 for consumer systems anytime soon (3 years), why not make a G3 version with a "cheater altivec" and a dedicated MP segment and put 4 to a card. Use that card in current SP and MP machines to get 4 and 8 processors respectively. With the cheapness of those processors and the mhz multiplier effect one could claim, all of a sudden we would have 3 Ghz imacs. Or emacs or Gmacs!

Even though G3 is relatively behind the curve, it is no wimp. OSX is designed to exploit alot of wimps. And if the latest processes were to be employed on the new G3+ dies they could run both cooler AND faster.

4xMP Ti anyone? Combine that with faster frontside bus (533 in the intel world) and DDR memory (standard apple futureram) and fast I/O eveywhere, all of a sudden you would also have a truly tivo class processor for consumers.

It was the vision way back when, and it was a good one. Why not revive it? The concept was to use alot of cheap, easy to make chips. So do THAT.

Rocketman

http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

DonMateo
Jul 12, 2002, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Rocketman
A long time ago back in the olden days when BeOS was likely to succeed, there was talk of G3 processors being made to interoperate for MP systems. However when the rubber (or silicon) hit the road only the G4 was really set-up for that and only the vaporware G5 was optimized for it.

BUT with the EOL of the G3 coming soon and with the likely delays and unsuitability of the G5 for consumer systems anytime soon (3 years), why not make a G3 version with a "cheater altivec" and a dedicated MP segment and put 4 to a card. Use that card in current SP and MP machines to get 4 and 8 processors respectively. With the cheapness of those processors and the mhz multiplier effect one could claim, all of a sudden we would have 3 Ghz imacs. Or emacs or Gmacs!

Even though G3 is relatively behind the curve, it is no wimp. OSX is designed to exploit alot of wimps. And if the latest processes were to be employed on the new G3+ dies they could run both cooler AND faster.

4xMP Ti anyone? Combine that with faster frontside bus (533 in the intel world) and DDR memory (standard apple futureram) and fast I/O eveywhere, all of a sudden you would also have a truly tivo class processor for consumers.

It was the vision way back when, and it was a good one. Why not revive it? The concept was to use alot of cheap, easy to make chips. So do THAT.

Rocketman

http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg



Oh yeah.... this rocks. Cmon STEVE! Do it! This would waste WASTE PCs, and be cheap, with decent profit margins, and... FCP would kick so much ass! YES! Steve! DO IT! DO IT!

Rocketman
Jul 12, 2002, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by DonMateo


Oh yeah.... this rocks. Cmon STEVE! Do it! This would waste WASTE PCs, and be cheap, with decent profit margins, and... FCP would kick so much ass! YES! Steve! DO IT! DO IT!

I take it you think it is a relatively good idea then?

Rocketman

:D

sjs
Jul 12, 2002, 11:13 PM
quote:

Originally posted by sjs
I cannot believe Steve has that in mind. For that reason I still expect MWNY to have all these things:

1. iMac speed bumps + 17"
2. eMac speed bumps
3. bumps to iBook and/or TiBook
4. something for iPod
5. at the very least PowerMac announcement.
6. Also don't forget, while Jaguar is well-known to us, its a very big thing with the speed and feature changes. Bigger than Win 95 to Win 98 really.
7. Plus at least one more thing, some surprise, something for the digital hub.



I think you're being WAY too optimisitic. You're expecting upgrades to the iMac, eMac, iBook, PowerBook, iPod, AND PowerMac - in ONE SHOW? Plus a new product, too? That's Apple's entire line of hardware except for the XServe!

I think we'll see one or two of these things, but by no means all. It's impossible, no company could do or would do anything like this...
_________________________________________________

Q-bert, you may be right that I am too optimistic, but "impossible"???Here's how they do the upgrades:

iMac-slide in an already common G4 chip, 933 or 1ghz. That's all it takes.
eMac-slide in an already existing chip...
iBook-does IBM have a faster chip? I don't know but I bet they do.
TiBook-same as others.
iPod-slide in a 20 gig HD plus contact software. Easy.
Another device...that would be the surprise. But hey, they can do it!

We let Apple get away with making "upgrades" too slowly and then making too big a deal of it. In every machine but the PM its JUST A CHIP! Quit acting like that's some difficult feat and quit being so happy when Apple finally does give a speed bump that's about a year or two behind to start with.

sjs
Jul 12, 2002, 11:23 PM
Don't get me wrong, I thinnk my iMac G3 600 runs OSX pretty darn good for what I need.

What I am saying here is this...

Why the heck do you have an expensive ad campaign to convince and convert the great unwashed masses when you know that PC users and mac users consider most of the hardware to be out of date or at least not on the cutting edge. And then to let a giant free ad (Expo) go by with only a couple of interesting items is like throwing the switch campaign down the drain. All the media will be reporting that "Apple disappointed" with their lack of announcemnts of newer, faster, better stuff. That would be dumb and I BET IT DOESN"T HAPPEN!

Arcady
Jul 13, 2002, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Rocketman
BUT with the EOL of the G3 coming soon and with the likely delays and unsuitability of the G5 for consumer systems anytime soon (3 years), why not make a G3 version with a "cheater altivec" and a dedicated MP segment and put 4 to a card. Use that card in current SP and MP machines to get 4 and 8 processors respectively. With the cheapness of those processors and the mhz multiplier effect one could claim, all of a sudden we would have 3 Ghz imacs. Or emacs or Gmacs!

G3's can't do SMP. You are suggesting they design two new extra chips to sit outside a G3 so you can make a cheap MP card? Sorry, but if you have to totally re-design the thing, it won't be cheap any more. :D

eric_n_dfw
Jul 13, 2002, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by Rocketman
...why not make a G3 version with a "cheater altivec" and a dedicated MP segment and put 4 to a card.
Define "cheater altivec".

kaneda
Jul 13, 2002, 03:58 AM
The next powermac will cover with Titanimum casing with bright Apple logo in the front...faster Superdriver, USB 2, more powerful graphic card, and of course DDR...top of the line model will include 250 MB ZIP Drive...

low end 1ghz+
middle 1.2ghz
top of the line dual 1.2ghz

ConradG4
Jul 13, 2002, 08:33 AM
If Apple didn't at least announce new PowerMacs at MWNY a lot of people would be very mad. People look at the current speeds of PeeCees that are up to 2+Ghz, and here is apple with only 1 Ghz for a lot more. Most people aren't smart enough to know that the way a PeeCee is clocked it is slower than it is rated.:(

My guess, they announce new PowerMacs but don't take orders until august.

Thats my .02

-Conrad

ConradG4
Jul 13, 2002, 08:38 AM
i still think it is a little early if they are announcing FCP4, they just bought India & eMagic, my guess, nothing until MWSF at least.

-Conrad

eirik
Jul 13, 2002, 09:38 AM
I find the reports of Apple postponing the introduction of a new PowerMac due to its inventory puzzling. Apple has the best inventory control in the industry, touting its inventory not in months, not in days, but in hours of inventory.

I fear that if this inventory thing is true, then maybe Apple intentionally inflated its inventory in the retail channels, recognizing that as revenue. Consequently, Apple made the last quarter look more favorable. This seems an awfully exensive "finance smoothing" move. As I've posted months ago, I said that Apple should be decreasing its PowerMac inventory in the channel to razor thin levels so they can intro the new PowerMac without delay. Further, I pointed out that it may be more beneficial the their finance reporting to release the new PowerMac prior to MWNY because that would ultimately yield more revenue for the fiscal year than what they've evidently done now.

I hope Apple hasn't deluded itself with such short term thinking. The SEC is liable to suspect they've done other things to cook their books. I'm not saying that this stinks of it but it shows a disposition to distort financial success.

Eirik

nickgold
Jul 13, 2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by eirik
I find the reports of Apple postponing the introduction of a new PowerMac due to its inventory puzzling. Apple has the best inventory control in the industry, touting its inventory not in months, not in days, but in hours of inventory.

I fear that if this inventory thing is true, then maybe Apple intentionally inflated its inventory in the retail channels, recognizing that as revenue. Consequently, Apple made the last quarter look more favorable. This seems an awfully exensive "finance smoothing" move. As I've posted months ago, I said that Apple should be decreasing its PowerMac inventory in the channel to razor thin levels so they can intro the new PowerMac without delay. Further, I pointed out that it may be more beneficial the their finance reporting to release the new PowerMac prior to MWNY because that would ultimately yield more revenue for the fiscal year than what they've evidently done now.

I hope Apple hasn't deluded itself with such short term thinking. The SEC is liable to suspect they've done other things to cook their books. I'm not saying that this stinks of it but it shows a disposition to distort financial success.

Eirik

Gosh, then Apple would only be acting like every other business on the planet at this point... ;) Seriusly though, doesn't every (large) company juggle its finances, so as to appear as if they are doing as best as they possibly can be, and stil get away with it? Why would Apple be any different? I doubt the SEC plans on taking down every major American corporation, that would certainly be bad for the US economy (or worse, I should say, as it's already quite clearly going down the toilet!)

eirik
Jul 13, 2002, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by nickgold


Gosh, then Apple would only be acting like every other business on the planet at this point... ;) Seriusly though, doesn't every (large) company juggle its finances, so as to appear as if they are doing as best as they possibly can be, and stil get away with it? Why would Apple be any different? I doubt the SEC plans on taking down every major American corporation, that would certainly be bad for the US economy (or worse, I should say, as it's already quite clearly going down the toilet!)

President Bush's new task force ("Swat Team") announced that it would be reviewing thousands of firms financial reports and compelling them to re-submit them with their CFO's witnessed signature on them by Aug 13.

Agreed, Apple's stuffing its inventory is nothing unusual. But with the task force commissioned to look for creative reporting, any anomalies, even common ones, will increase the probability that Apple would be one of those firms.

Either way, if Apple stuffed its inventory, then it was an act of foolishness.

If I were Jobs, I would ask my tax attorneys what the financial benefit would be for donating a large number of PowerMac's to Homeland Security or even the SEC "Swat Team". Would the increased current fiscal year reveneues for PowerMac sales due to an earlier release plus any kind of tax write off add up to a positive net present value (note this figures in the 'cost of capital', which implicitly factors in their expected return on investment for the use of their capital). Please note, I don't not ****** about corporate tax law. And of course, I don't know how much of an inventory problem that Apple has. So, the point of this idea is merely to suggest a direction that Apple may not have considered.

BTW, don't forget the value of having thousands of PowerMac's in a highly visible government agency. It could create a beachhead there that other IT folks could see with their own eyes and read from 'credible' sources the benefits to Mac's in the office.

Eirik

stonelove
Jul 13, 2002, 01:07 PM
Apple's reasons for waiting until august to announce the new Powermacs:
1. So they can be shipped with Jaguar
2. So yields of faster 1.4ghz chips are available (hopefully)
3. Announcing that they will ship with Nvidia's GeForce5 card.

Remember Nvidia weren't too pleased last time when Apple announced that the previous powermacs would ship with the GeForce4, before they themselves announced it, and I've read the GeForce5 will be ready 3rd Quarter, ie anytime soon.

For the money Powermacs just arent good enough and they really do need DDRram and a faster system bus (166?). And all of them should have atleast 2mb of L3 cache (4mb at the topend) to distance them from the iMacs.

Get it sorted!!!!!!

ImAlwaysRight
Jul 13, 2002, 04:32 PM
Where do you think this rumor comes from that no new PowerMacs at MWNY? Do you think it is truely an inside source who knows for sure and leaked this info to some rumor site? OR, is it based on some speculation by some outside the loop who look at the current rebates on G4 + APPLE LCD and they say, "see, because of this rebate ending Aug 12 involving the current PowerMac G4s, no new PowerMac announcement?" I have a hunch it is the latter, and this rumor is not based on insider information. Consider the following:

Point 1: Just because Apple has a rebate ending Aug 12 on G4 + APPLE LCD, it does not mean in the least no new PowerMacs. Note Apple is very specific WHICH PowerMacs may be used on the rebate, only the current 800/933/dual 1GHz G4. The rebate confirms Apple has some stock in the channels it wants to get rid of. But also consider Apple can and has ended rebates early.

Point 2: Apple has announced new PowerMacs in the past and then not shipped for several weeks. I believe Apple will announce new Powermacs shipping with Jaguar, and therefore will not be SHIPPING new Powermacs until August. You can order starting July 17. RARELY does Apple have brand new hardware available IMMEDIATELY (example: iMac G4 at last expo). Usually it takes a few weeks to get new models out. This has been Apple's track record. I believe new PowerMacs shipping August (as rumor sites state), but they will be announced July 17. Why would Steve miss this opportunity at MWNY to get people excited about new PowerMacs, especially if they are shipping 3-4 weeks later? Steve wouldn't pass on this. NEW POWERMACS WILL BE ANNOUNCED!

Point 3: New PowerMacs (possibly with new 2-button mouse) coincides nicely with Apple's new Switch campaign. You know we are going to hear a report on the Switch campaign --- and you know Steve would love to say, with a new PowerMac announcement, that Apple's just given PC users another reason to switch.

If you check the archives of these rumor sites, they are never right 100% of the time. Think Secret predicted the flat panel iMacs in January to have the G3 chip. So, that gives us a little hope. Here's hoping we'll see new PowerMacs of up to 1.4 GHz, and a nice surprise would be with a G5 chip!

nigel_t
Jul 13, 2002, 05:28 PM
I wish Apple puts 4 processors in a box and sells it, how much of you guys would buy that.
And about fcp, I think we will see FCP 3.5 and Shake. 3.5 will have a realtime audio mixer and some semblance of RT out the firewire, about 3 layers or so. I wish I wish I wish. Do you guys think I'm dreaming.:D :D :cool:

theranch
Jul 14, 2002, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by nigel_t
I wish Apple puts 4 processors in a box and sells it, how much of you guys would buy that.
And about fcp, I think we will see FCP 3.5 and Shake. 3.5 will have a realtime audio mixer and some semblance of RT out the firewire, about 3 layers or so. I wish I wish I wish. Do you guys think I'm dreaming.:D :D :cool:
What are you smoking? Read another post in here about more than two processors....what it says is that there aren't too many(none) apps built to take advantage of more than two processors.

theranch
Jul 14, 2002, 08:38 PM
Point 2: Apple has announced new PowerMacs in the past and then not shipped for several weeks. I believe Apple will announce new Powermacs shipping with Jaguar, and therefore will not be SHIPPING new Powermacs until August. You can order starting July 17. RARELY does Apple have brand new hardware available IMMEDIATELY (example: iMac G4 at last expo). Usually it takes a few weeks to get new models out. This has been Apple's track record. I believe new PowerMacs shipping August (as rumor sites state), but they will be announced July 17. Why would Steve miss this opportunity at MWNY to get people excited about new PowerMacs, especially if they are shipping 3-4 weeks later? Steve wouldn't pass on this. NEW POWERMACS WILL BE ANNOUNCED!

That's what I'm going with....exactly what you are talking about. MWNY is too big not to announce the much needed new Powermac.

eric_n_dfw
Jul 14, 2002, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by theranch

What are you smoking? Read another post in here about more than two processors....what it says is that there aren't too many(none) apps built to take advantage of more than two processors.
What are you smoking?

Any multi-threaded application (i.e. most) would automatically gain advantages by scaling up to 4 processors. As Apple has been saying for at least 2 years, OS X supports SMP. Just like any other modern OS (NT, Solaris, HP-UX, Linux)

The only app's that wouldn't "take advantage" of them are classic apps and (possibly) carbon ones that aren't written well. (Admitedly, I am not a Carbon developer, but I believe Apple has stated that Carbon app's would take advantage of SMP)

Now, OS X may not scale as well to 4 or 8 processors as it does to 2 due to some kind of tuning issues, but 4 would still be better than 2.

davidbea
Jul 15, 2002, 06:20 AM
I am looking forward to the new G4s no matter what the speed increase to get Photoshop moving but have a concern:
Someone has posted somewhere-sorry I can't remember the souce- the possibility that the new G4 will not be able to run OS 9.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
My Epson printers and scanners can't do OS X.

nigel_t
Jul 15, 2002, 06:21 AM
Hey Guys:
As far as I know OS X can support up to 8 processors at least that is what uncle steve said. And as for me smoking, a computer with 4 chips in it will not be meant for people typing letters in word and doing spreadsheets in xcel. This will be for pro users who need horse power, video/film guys, analysts, 3D guys and such. Can you imagine having 4 1.4GHz processors in a box, heavy composits will seem like text files. Anyway it's a dream we'll see what happens on wednesday.

davei
Jul 15, 2002, 10:54 AM
FOUR processors? I know the G4 runs cool, but jeez, if that's the case (highly unlikely) I hope they ship them with earplugs :)

eric_n_dfw
Jul 15, 2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by nigel_t
And as for me smoking, a computer with 4 chips in it will not be meant for people typing letters in word and doing spreadsheets in xcel. This will be for pro users who need horse power, video/film guys, analysts, 3D guys and such. Can you imagine having 4 1.4GHz processors in a box, heavy composits will seem like text files. Anyway it's a dream we'll see what happens on wednesday. Yeah, but I was replying to where "theranch" said that apps wouldn't take advantage of them. All (non-classic) apps would. And for the guy doing Word and Excel, they would be able to have more app's open without noticing slow-downs. (But yes, most Word/Excel users wouldn't need quad G4's!)

Grokgod
Jul 15, 2002, 01:08 PM
OK okok!

This is the way that I see it.

I understand that APPLE has said that they want to take the pressure offa MW,
by saying that they will announce products when they become available.

But, that doesnt take away from the fact that MW is still a very large event.
ANd as much as APPLE would love to DO whatever they want WHENEVER THEY
want to.

This is STILL going to be a huge MW and Jobs has enough of a showmanship character to WANT to create something thats interesting for a MACWORLD this big.

People will be disappointed if there isnt something great there.
Not to mention the great free publicity!

So as much as APPLE tries to take peoples expectations off of MW.
There is still going to be HUGE ones.
I dont think anything will change that.

APPLE would be very STUPID not to take advantage of it.
To propell the company and induce sales through this venue.

SO! ~ I say POWERMAC's announced at MWNY and shipped out later.

~enuff said.

Cappy
Jul 15, 2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by ImAlwaysRight
Where do you think this rumor comes from that no new PowerMacs at MWNY? Do you think it is truely an inside source who knows for sure and leaked this info to some rumor site? OR, is it based on some speculation by some outside the loop who look at the current rebates on G4 + APPLE LCD and they say, "see, because of this rebate ending Aug 12 involving the current PowerMac G4s, no new PowerMac announcement?" I have a hunch it is the latter, and this rumor is not based on insider information. Consider the following:

Point 1: Just because Apple has a rebate ending Aug 12 on G4 + APPLE LCD, it does not mean in the least no new PowerMacs. Note Apple is very specific WHICH PowerMacs may be used on the rebate, only the current 800/933/dual 1GHz G4. The rebate confirms Apple has some stock in the channels it wants to get rid of. But also consider Apple can and has ended rebates early.

Point 2: Apple has announced new PowerMacs in the past and then not shipped for several weeks. I believe Apple will announce new Powermacs shipping with Jaguar, and therefore will not be SHIPPING new Powermacs until August. You can order starting July 17. RARELY does Apple have brand new hardware available IMMEDIATELY (example: iMac G4 at last expo). Usually it takes a few weeks to get new models out. This has been Apple's track record. I believe new PowerMacs shipping August (as rumor sites state), but they will be announced July 17. Why would Steve miss this opportunity at MWNY to get people excited about new PowerMacs, especially if they are shipping 3-4 weeks later? Steve wouldn't pass on this. NEW POWERMACS WILL BE ANNOUNCED!

Point 3: New PowerMacs (possibly with new 2-button mouse) coincides nicely with Apple's new Switch campaign. You know we are going to hear a report on the Switch campaign --- and you know Steve would love to say, with a new PowerMac announcement, that Apple's just given PC users another reason to switch.

If you check the archives of these rumor sites, they are never right 100% of the time. Think Secret predicted the flat panel iMacs in January to have the G3 chip. So, that gives us a little hope. Here's hoping we'll see new PowerMacs of up to 1.4 GHz, and a nice surprise would be with a G5 chip!

Unless Apple has some trick up their sleeve or just making stupid decisions, they will not officially announce any new PowerMacs that might be considered replacements for those they currently are trying to clear out with rebates. It's bad business and would kill the sales of the current systems.

It's tough to guess if there will be new PowerMacs at the show. This whole thing is weird. With Apple's resources they should have known where sales and inventory were long before they announced these new rebates which was awfully close to the show dates. It does seem like they're up to something and hopefully it's more than simply generating talk about Apple and Macs.

Frankly I can't help but think Apple is postponing announcement of the PowerMac for other reasons besides the rebate/inventory issue. This is their show and with rumors pointing to new devices coming from them, this would be the time to put it/them on display without anything taking away from that buzz. Remember Apple cares about their consumers but they care more about the media and the attention they give to Apple.

mrMahann
Jul 15, 2002, 04:12 PM
it may not be inventory that is the issue, but perhaps at least one more thing or things that came together and have influenced. its a delicate juggling act and lots of things must coincide.

if they announce new macs at mw/ny it very well could undermine the current promotion. i'd spend the extra pesos for a significantly bumped machine if its available. am thinking many others will as well. this points to announcement later.

so, it can be that and perhaps getting enuf high-speed processors in boxes. what are yields over at moto? could very well be behind again. or, they want to be able to ship when announced, say in AUG.

i hear how locked on apple is w/ inventory but things happen, analysts overestimate purchasing. they may be tight, but they have a long history of being ableto get enuf boxes in teh hands of hte people. so many things can happen that we just don't know about.

big news people are saying, "no new macs at mw;" perhaps apple's leaking info, trying to set expectations? to ease the news of .. .no news on p/m front? that we'll have to wait just a bit longer?

i'm expecting new macs announced in AUG, just like c|net says.