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MacRumors
Jun 16, 2004, 11:04 AM
Seagate recently introduced (http://www.seagate.com/cda/newsinfo/newsroom/releases/article/0,1121,2171,00.html) a 1-inch 2.5 GB & 5 GB compact-flash interface hard drive for use in digital cameras and other small-size, large storage space devices. With a form factor the same as Hitachi's 4 GB model currently found in the iPod Mini, these new smaller and larger capacity hard drives may find thier way into the iPod Mini.

In an Reuters interview (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/techreviews/products/2004-06-14-seagate-new-memory-prods_x.htm) with Brian Dexheimer, head of worldwide sales and marketing for Seagate about the new drives whether Seagate is likely to be an additional provider of the mini hard drives to Apple, Dexheimer said: "We'd like to be. We're certainly talking to them about this product."

Hitachi is expected to increase production on the currently available 4 GB model to 2 million units per quarter by the end of the year in an attempt to catch up to consumer demand (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/03/20040325114409.shtml). Current wait times for an iPod Mini from the Apple Store are approximately 4 weeks or more. International release of the iPod Mini has also been delayed until production has increased to meet demand.

gallagb
Jun 16, 2004, 11:07 AM
more of the market goes to apple!

maybe i SHOULD buy stock.

question: will they get cheaper ?
(overall- not just the obvious of the 2.5 being cheaper than the 4)

also- isn't it dumb to have a 4 and a 5?

SiliconAddict
Jun 16, 2004, 11:12 AM
question: will they get cheaper ?

Ya right. Apple can't keep up with demand as it stands. Apple is going to milk this as long as they can. *shrugs* The mini is already pretty cheap. It would be nice if Apple COULD drop the price by $50 but I'm doubting that its going to happen.

JGowan
Jun 16, 2004, 11:12 AM
I think it should be:

2.5GB = $150
5GB = $250

Windowlicker
Jun 16, 2004, 11:12 AM
it would be cool if apple could upgrade the minis to 5Gb and maybe even lower the price for say $20..

with the current price tag it would be a good discount (especially when there would be a 1/4 bigger hard drive).

Wonder Boy
Jun 16, 2004, 11:12 AM
more of the market goes to apple!

maybe i SHOULD buy stock.

question: will they get cheaper ?
(overall- not just the obvious of the 2.5 being cheaper than the 4)

also- isn't it dumb to have a 4 and a 5?

it would make sense to eliminate the 4 in favor of the 5 just like they eliminated the 30 in favor of the 40. the proportians arn't exactly the same, but you get the idea.

to me, a 2.5 seems pointless as a music player. if it went into a apple digital camera, now that would be something.

sabbath999
Jun 16, 2004, 11:20 AM
question: will they get cheaper ?


Why on earth would apple reduce the price of something they can't keep in stock because it's selling so well?

If they had a bunch sitting on the shelf, they would consider it. Since they can't begin to keep up with demand, the question becomes (for them) is the price point too low?

LeeTom
Jun 16, 2004, 11:21 AM
Why would Apple switch suppliers, just to go up 1GB? Good luck Seagate, but it ain't gonna happen. Wait until their current supplier leapfrogs them by 3GB, and all iPod Minis will be 8GB next year.

Lee Tom

takao
Jun 16, 2004, 11:23 AM
not gonna happen soon
the ipod mini haven't been released in europe and there are already rumors about replacing it with new ones ?...highly doubt that in the near future

nsb3000
Jun 16, 2004, 11:30 AM
I think it should be:

2.5GB = $150
5GB = $250

I think it should be: 2.5 GB: $99
5 GB $199

Spock
Jun 16, 2004, 11:30 AM
Why would Apple switch suppliers, just to go up 1GB? Good luck Seagate, but it ain't gonna happen. Wait until their current supplier leapfrogs them by 3GB, and all iPod Minis will be 8GB next year.

Lee Tom

But if Seagate could give Apple a lower price it could mean cheaper Minis or more money for Apple. I am sure Seagate has thoght of what You said and has a lower price than Hitachi

soosy
Jun 16, 2004, 11:33 AM
Why would Apple switch suppliers, just to go up 1GB? Good luck Seagate, but it ain't gonna happen. Wait until their current supplier leapfrogs them by 3GB, and all iPod Minis will be 8GB next year.

Lee Tom

Because Hitachi can't make enough. If Hitachi is the bottleneck then it makes a lot of sense to find someone else who can supply more in volume. If Seagate was also making a 4GB, then they could use both, but it looks like they may have to decide who can make more...

On another note, my dad wanted to get an iPod mini for my mom on short notice. We ended up finding some in a department store (Strawbridge's), guessing it was a place people normally don't look. Then we were in Best Buy a few days laster and saw that they had some too. So hopefully availability isn't so bad....

TWinbrook46636
Jun 16, 2004, 11:33 AM
Not likely. Why?

A) It is only 3200rpm vs 4800 rpm
B) They just spilled the beans and Stevie don't like that

BlueDjinn
Jun 16, 2004, 11:34 AM
I presume the next iPod update will look something like:

2.5 GB Mini: $149 ("600 songs in your pocket!")
5.0 GB Mini: $250 ("1,200 songs in your pocket!")

20 GB: $299 (w/Mini-style buttons-on-wheel design)
40 GB: $399
60 GB: $499

Mr.Hey
Jun 16, 2004, 11:34 AM
Compact-flash baby! :) I hope Apple doesn't hesitate and works these little devices into the next rev models.

MrMacMan
Jun 16, 2004, 11:34 AM
Ahh, finally the cheaper iPods the people want.


Oh yes:

Add AM/FM Radio Already! COMEON!!

nsb3000
Jun 16, 2004, 11:36 AM
Not likely. Why?

A) It is only 3200rpm vs 4800 rpm
B) They just spilled the beans and Stevie don't like that


Apple is not the only company buying their product, so it is not like they can keep it secret. Also, I don't think 3200rpm will have a big impact when all you are doing is listening to music.

nsb3000
Jun 16, 2004, 11:37 AM
Ahh, finally the cheaper iPods the people want.


Oh yes:

Add AM/FM Radio Already! COMEON!!

Ya...I agree here. This would not be hard to do...

plastree
Jun 16, 2004, 11:38 AM
I'm assuming Apple and Hitachi have forged some sort of contract, as Hitachi has stated that one of the reasons for the new plant is to supply the mini. It would be weird for Apple to release a 4 and 5 gig mini, so I'm guessing that for now, Seagate is out of the game.

g4cubed
Jun 16, 2004, 11:39 AM
Though I'm sure that they'll make their way into the minis. I think they may do a video recorder. The isight, with better opticals and a 5gig hd would be small, lightweight, and cheap.

virividox
Jun 16, 2004, 11:40 AM
oooo the 2.5 might just tempt me enough for my sisters bday

soosy
Jun 16, 2004, 11:40 AM
Not likely. Why?

A) It is only 3200rpm vs 4800 rpm
B) They just spilled the beans and Stevie don't like that

Does rpm make a difference if you're filling a cache anyway?

"We'd like to be. We're certainly talking to them about this product." isn't spilling the beans.

sord
Jun 16, 2004, 11:41 AM
I wonder if there will be a new rumor for new iPods everytime someone comes out with a new small sized hard drive.

Windowlicker
Jun 16, 2004, 11:43 AM
to me, a 2.5 seems pointless as a music player. if it went into a apple digital camera, now that would be something.

you said it! :)) the camera could still be about the size of an ipod (maybe even ipod mini??) you know..

also it wouldn't be that surprising if they some day released one. they already have a great app for digital photos. don't know how competitive those cameras would be though. also 2.5Gb is pretty much for a customer product where 256mb or 512mb is enough. for a system camera 2,5gb would kick ass!

BaDBoY
Jun 16, 2004, 11:43 AM
thats excellent, if they continue to rise, i might consider getting a mini.

ftaok
Jun 16, 2004, 11:45 AM
I'm assuming Apple and Hitachi have forged some sort of contract, as Hitachi has stated that one of the reasons for the new plant is to supply the mini. It would be weird for Apple to release a 4 and 5 gig mini, so I'm guessing that for now, Seagate is out of the game.
How difficult would it be for Apple to take the 5GB Seagate and format it to recognize only 4GB? I'm thinking that it could be done pretty easily.

Apple routinely cripples their components so features on the low-end stuff doesn't equal or surpass features on the high end stuff. This would be right up their alley.

BTW, I'm not saying that they would use the Seagate drives. Only that the 5GB capacity would not really be a reason for Apple to not use them.

amols
Jun 16, 2004, 11:45 AM
Well.. I don't know aboout minis, but this is certainly a good news for digital cameras and camcorders. Apple products always seems perfect until they upgrade it. And I think Apple shouldn't go increasing hd capacity of minis. Thats what "Big iPod" is for. Instead, they should opt for more features like FM, coloured screens, more battery time and yeah, faster production :)

iChan
Jun 16, 2004, 11:45 AM
I presume the next iPod update will look something like:

2.5 GB Mini: $149 ("600 songs in your pocket!")
5.0 GB Mini: $250 ("1,200 songs in your pocket!")

20 GB: $299 (w/Mini-style buttons-on-wheel design)
40 GB: $399
60 GB: $499

i think the idea behind 5,000/10,000 songs in your pocket etc. was the appeal of having so many songs in your pocket. ie. LOADS!
that was the USP (although, admittedly, not entirely unique), the design and ease of use could also be argued as USP's... but those are more subjective matters.

Apple would hardly want to advertise the fact that by buying an iPod mini, you are in fact, holding LESS songs than you currently have. so apple will probably want to focus on the coolness and sleekness of the mini, (moreso than the 3rd gen). This is evidenced by them targetting the sports market in some of their pictures on their website.

iChan
Jun 16, 2004, 11:49 AM
Ahh, finally the cheaper iPods the people want.


Oh yes:

Add AM/FM Radio Already! COMEON!!

just because seagate are are currently in talks with apple to supply them with these drives does not automatically mean that the iPod mini will drop in price. i mean, come on, the Mini's have not even been launched outside of the US yet and you are talking about a price drop??? the original iPod hasn't even dropped in price yet!

ennerseed
Jun 16, 2004, 11:49 AM
Does anyone else see the iPod mini staying just a "music player", as the iPod morphs and grows features / uses?

iChan
Jun 16, 2004, 11:50 AM
I think it should be: 2.5 GB: $99
5 GB $199

I don't...

the thing is, i don't want the iPod to become cheap and common...

i don't mind expensive and common. if you know what i mean.

at $99 and $199 respectively, the ipod will get commoditized and i don't think apple want that at this early in the game... especially because of the fact that there is no reason for it in teh world... the price shouold be going up if anything due to demand!

Billicus
Jun 16, 2004, 11:51 AM
I presume the next iPod update will look something like:

2.5 GB Mini: $149 ("600 songs in your pocket!")
5.0 GB Mini: $250 ("1,200 songs in your pocket!")

20 GB: $299 (w/Mini-style buttons-on-wheel design)
40 GB: $399
60 GB: $499

I agree, that'd be better on line for closer competition with the Flash Player market. At $250, I can't see how the current line up of iPod Mini's can be much damage to the flash market. (Of course, however, I never saw much merit in the iPod Mini's from the beginning because of the price per Gigabyte...) :eek:

dizastor
Jun 16, 2004, 11:52 AM
More ipod choices. W00T!

iChan
Jun 16, 2004, 11:52 AM
How difficult would it be for Apple to take the 5GB Seagate and format it to recognize only 4GB? I'm thinking that it could be done pretty easily.

Apple routinely cripples their components so features on the low-end stuff doesn't equal or surpass features on the high end stuff. This would be right up their alley.

BTW, I'm not saying that they would use the Seagate drives. Only that the 5GB capacity would not really be a reason for Apple to not use them.

they might also do this so that they wouldn't have to market ANOTHER capacity ipod Mini... what would eb teh point???
it would be the same thing that MS did with the Xbox, some xbox's have 10GB HD's formatted to 8GB's for unity purposes.

iChan
Jun 16, 2004, 11:54 AM
Well.. I don't know aboout minis, but this is certainly a good news for digital cameras and camcorders. Apple products always seems perfect until they upgrade it. And I think Apple shouldn't go increasing hd capacity of minis. Thats what "Big iPod" is for. Instead, they should opt for more features like FM, coloured screens, more battery time and yeah, faster production :)

nono, you are going the wrong way with this, apple should add features to the white iPod and keep ramping up the Capacity of the mini... Keep Mini as the Music-only player and then make the Ipod a more multi-purpose device... this makes sense... think about it man.

shawnce
Jun 16, 2004, 11:56 AM
Apple is not the only company buying their product, so it is not like they can keep it secret. Also, I don't think 3200rpm will have a big impact when all you are doing is listening to music.

The issue wasn't the announcement of the new drives by Hitachi, it was that Hitachi stated (as part of the drives announcement) that Apple was going to use them in a new, as yet unannounced, iPod.

You don't announce another companies products for them without an agreement and cooperation on that announcement.

DMann
Jun 16, 2004, 12:03 PM
I love it.... catch up with
consumer demand....
who could imagine?

at $149, Apple will create MORE
consumer demand, and then have
to catch up to that!!!

This is quite remarkable by any
business standards. :)

DMann
Jun 16, 2004, 12:05 PM
*Off-topic

I REALLY wanna see a wi-fi iPod... so then it can connect ot the net with the airport express and also stream music to the remote speakers with airtunes...

internet access will solely be for the iTMS... how cool would that be?

So would I, but how ever will we get airport
technology in those tiny little units?

Doctor Q
Jun 16, 2004, 12:07 PM
I don't expect the prices to drop, even if Apple finds new suppliers. I don't expect prices to change based on temporarly supply and demand issues either. I think Apple will prefer to stick to its price points and upgrade the products (more capacity) at each price point over time. That's of course equivalent to a price drop, just not presented that way.

amols
Jun 16, 2004, 12:09 PM
nono, you are going the wrong way with this, apple should add features to the white iPod and keep ramping up the Capacity of the mini... Keep Mini as the Music-only player and then make the Ipod a more multi-purpose device... this makes sense... think about it man.

Yes, I agree with you. Music and music oriented features should be the only concern of minis. Thats why I suggested FM instead of some remote-like mutation of mini. Also, more battery life seems logical than more HD space.

beefcake
Jun 16, 2004, 12:10 PM
20 GB: $299 (w/Mini-style buttons-on-wheel design)


Seeing as the casing size on the 20 GB won't be changing any time soon, why condense everything on the scroll wheel and leave all that empty space below the screen?

DMann
Jun 16, 2004, 12:10 PM
more of the market goes to apple!

maybe i SHOULD buy stock.

question: will they get cheaper ?
(overall- not just the obvious of the 2.5 being cheaper than the 4)

also- isn't it dumb to have a 4 and a 5?

Nothing wrong with a collection.. besides,
they will make GREAT gifts at $149 :rolleyes:

g4cubed
Jun 16, 2004, 12:11 PM
The issue wasn't the announcement of the new drives by Hitachi, it was that Hitachi stated (as part of the drives announcement) that Apple was going to use them in a new, as yet unannounced, iPod.

You don't announce another companies products for them without an agreement and cooperation on that announcement.


Yep, and now Steve is scrambling for something to announce at WWDC :eek:

DMann
Jun 16, 2004, 12:12 PM
it would make sense to eliminate the 4 in favor of the 5 just like they eliminated the 30 in favor of the 40. the proportians arn't exactly the same, but you get the idea.

to me, a 2.5 seems pointless as a music player. if it went into a apple digital camera, now that would be something.

Now, those rumors of the Apple Digital Camera
may "come together" and actually materialize :rolleyes:

DMann
Jun 16, 2004, 12:16 PM
it would make sense to eliminate the 4 in favor of the 5 just like they eliminated the 30 in favor of the 40. the proportians arn't exactly the same, but you get the idea.

to me, a 2.5 seems pointless as a music player. if it went into a apple digital camera, now that would be something.

By "upgrading" the 4gig to 5gig, another sector
of consumers become "triggered" to make their
move and buy.... you know, those who thought
"If only they made them with 5 gig capacity"

New and Improved goods have driven the market
for centuries!

shawnce
Jun 16, 2004, 12:17 PM
I agree, that'd be better on line for closer competition with the Flash Player market. At $250, I can't see how the current line up of iPod Mini's can be much damage to the flash market. (Of course, however, I never saw much merit in the iPod Mini's from the beginning because of the price per Gigabyte...) :eek:

You will likely be surprised by the market penetration the iPod mini is having in the flash player market. We however may have to wait until January to hear those numbers...

The iPod all but owns (not counting the iPod mini) the hard drive based player market (either 70% or 90%... cannot recall which at the moment). The hard drive market, in the US, is about 1/3 of the overall player market if IIRC. Another market segment is the "high-end flash" player market (approx. 200-250 dollars and around 1GB or more) and that market is just under 1/3 of the market as well. The iPod mini is targeting this market, with a price at the top end of that market segment but with storage about 2x to 4x what used to be available in flash players.

I believe Apple is eating away at the market and they may have 40% or more of the player market (at least in US and hopefully Japan) in recent quarters, I also believe that the iPod mini will show to have a decent hand in that total market share.

DMann
Jun 16, 2004, 12:19 PM
Though I'm sure that they'll make their way into the minis. I think they may do a video recorder. The isight, with better opticals and a 5gig hd would be small, lightweight, and cheap.

Either a digital camera or video camera
would be the next likely "latest and
greatest" product to sweep consumers
of their feet!

mainstreetmark
Jun 16, 2004, 12:22 PM
Yep, and now Steve is scrambling for something to announce at WWDC :eek:


Uh, you mean besides Tiger? The primary topic of interest for developers?

Developers can't develop much for the iPod (though, i sure would love to have some sort of plugin architecture so that geeks like me could write little modules for iPod), and any announcements of ipod stuff at WWDC is purely to make all us mac fanatics go wild with pleasure.

DMann
Jun 16, 2004, 12:26 PM
I wonder if there will be a new rumor for new iPods everytime someone comes out with a new small sized hard drive.

Ahhh, the human tendency to want to put 2 and 2 together.... :rolleyes:

CubaTBird
Jun 16, 2004, 12:27 PM
What I want to see is an ipod that has double the battery life of the current ipods and the same scroll wheel found on the current ipod mini. Now, the question is, of course the 60 gb model will probably be available sep/oct, but what about the 20/40 gb? Will they be availble soon after WWDC? :confused:

jsw
Jun 16, 2004, 12:28 PM
Now, those rumors of the Apple Digital Camera
may "come together" and actually materialize :rolleyes:

Unlikely or not, it would be nice. I was a beta tester for the Apple QuickTake 100 (http://www.epi-centre.com/reports/9403cdi.html) many years ago. I think people forget that Apple more or less started the digital camera thing - or at least was there a decade ago. I'd like to see them get back into that area.

DWKlink
Jun 16, 2004, 12:49 PM
Seeing as the casing size on the 20 GB won't be changing any time soon, why condense everything on the scroll wheel and leave all that empty space below the screen?

How about a few extra lines for its color display :)

macridah
Jun 16, 2004, 12:52 PM
steve did say he wanted to make the ipod's cheaper ... that's probably where the 2.5GB fit in.

2.5 GB is too small for me, but I guess others might like it. the 5GB would be just right.

Windowlicker
Jun 16, 2004, 12:52 PM
Does anyone else see the iPod mini staying just a "music player", as the iPod morphs and grows features / uses?

Well, as I see it, this is pretty much what happened when the iMac was originally released. The iMacs and eMacs are still basically the same in features (sure there's FW, USB and so on, but still..) as the orig. imac while the PowerMac line has gotten new features all the time (G5 has optical sound in/out, dual display support, new architecture etc).

Still, I don't really see the iPod as a videopod — it could get a TV-out though... maybe... in my dreams... maybe they'll be reality some day... hopefully.

LaMerVipere
Jun 16, 2004, 12:59 PM
I don't care what capacity it is, I would buy it!

But then again, if I could get my hands on a blue iPod mini I would have bought one a long time ago, they are no where to be found here in Chicago :(

As usual, we're ready to give apple money but they are having major delays preventing that. (and yes i know the reason for the scarce supply is that hitachi isn't producing the minidrives in bulk, but still, DAMN YOU APPLE!)

Windowlicker
Jun 16, 2004, 01:01 PM
has anyone realized that since the new G5's were announced, the rumors concerning WWDC dropped totally?! :)

It's actually a good thing. Now, next week's probably gonna be all about WWDC since it's starting to be close then.

King Cobra
Jun 16, 2004, 01:04 PM
I recall Steve saying (more or less) at MWSF 2004 that 2GB of music in an iPod mini really isn't enough space...so I strongly doubt that 2.5GB of space is enough, either.

IF (big "if") Steve updates the iPod minis, I say the current mini will be dropped in price, and a new model iPod mini will be introduced with 6GB or 8GB of space. But I doubt that'll happen.


Why would Apple switch suppliers, just to go up 1GB? Good luck Seagate, but it ain't gonna happen.
I've read on these forums that people have had bad luck with Segate Hard Drives as well. Interesting...


and now Steve is scrambling for something to announce at WWDC
How about this: Tiger fixes all of Panther's flaws once and for all. And there are also G5 iMacs and updated displays of some sort being awaited.


Just remember even when you fall on your face
You're still going forward
Yeah, but you usually have to get back up. http://forums.macrumors.com/images/icons/icon4.gif

hughdogg
Jun 16, 2004, 01:09 PM
Unlikely or not, it would be nice. I was a beta tester for the Apple QuickTake 100 (http://www.epi-centre.com/reports/9403cdi.html) many years ago. I think people forget that Apple more or less started the digital camera thing - or at least was there a decade ago. I'd like to see them get back into that area.
Hmmm,
There are already tons of good digital camera's out there...what could Apple do that would be unique? I mean digital camera's are rapidly becoming a commodity, with very little to differential from one to the next (I'm speaking specifically in the consumer level 3-4 megapixles range). You point it, shoot it, and download it to a computer. They all have red-eye reduction, they all have built in filters, and they all have 20 other similar features, and iPhoto work great with all of them already. The reason the iPod was such a success was because it paired a great portable player with great software on the computer.

Potential unique camera features:
HDD - too many battery issues, and response time issues. Plus, when traveling, I take multiple cards and if one fills up, pop in the next card.
Wi-Fi, huge battery issues. I mean a wi-fi camera paired with a wi-fi iPod storage device would conceptually be very cool, but the battery life issues would be huge.

That dosen't mean I don't think Apple has something up their sleeve that none of us have thought of...see: airport express.

Cheers,
hughdogg

AndrewMT
Jun 16, 2004, 01:11 PM
All I know is - I would much rather have a Seagate running in my mini iPod, then a Hitachi drive.

TWinbrook46636
Jun 16, 2004, 01:38 PM
Does rpm make a difference if you're filling a cache anyway?

"We'd like to be. We're certainly talking to them about this product." isn't spilling the beans.

Yes, especially when you are using AIFF or AL files.

Yes, saying you are in talks with Apple is spilling the beans.

I'm sure Hitachi will be happy to supply Apple with 5GB versions if they want. It's a rather small jump though and the slower drive speed may prove to be a hindrance with the large files above. Indeed, some are reporting their iPods can't handle AL without skipping while the buffer presumably reloads.

PPC970FX
Jun 16, 2004, 01:41 PM
I think it should be: 2.5 GB: $99
5 GB $199

What are you smoking? That will never happend.

Bear
Jun 16, 2004, 01:42 PM
All I know is - I would much rather have a Seagate running in my mini iPod, then a Hitachi drive.Have you ever used a Hitachi designed drive and not one of the designs that came from IBMs disk facility?

It's actually a toss up as to which I would prefer. As for the CF format HDDs, Hitachi took the IBM MicroDrive and fixed a couple of major design flaws in them. This would be Seagates first generation device. That makes the Hitachi look better until we get some data on how the Seagte one performs in the real world.

I could tell you stories about most of the disk manufacturers that would make sure you did daily backups of your data.

Moxiemike
Jun 16, 2004, 01:42 PM
Hmmm,
There are already tons of good digital camera's out there...what could Apple do that would be unique? I mean digital camera's are rapidly becoming a commodity, with very little to differential from one to the next (I'm speaking specifically in the consumer level 3-4 megapixles range). You point it, shoot it, and download it to a computer. They all have red-eye reduction, they all have built in filters, and they all have 20 other similar features, and iPhoto work great with all of them already. The reason the iPod was such a success was because it paired a great portable player with great software on the computer.

Potential unique camera features:
HDD - too many battery issues, and response time issues. Plus, when traveling, I take multiple cards and if one fills up, pop in the next card.
Wi-Fi, huge battery issues. I mean a wi-fi camera paired with a wi-fi iPod storage device would conceptually be very cool, but the battery life issues would be huge.

That dosen't mean I don't think Apple has something up their sleeve that none of us have thought of...see: airport express.

Cheers,
hughdogg

Well, Nikon has the (very expensive) D2h with wireless, which is the cat's a**. That said, why couldn't apple come up with a 4 & 5 mp digicam, with built in 2.5gb CF card to store photos and an optional wireless connection. Maybe they co-op with Nikon, and put in a 28-90 AFS lens on the sucker, f. 2.8 and such, and use the Li-ion battery similar to what's in the D70 & D100.... you'd EASILY get 300-400 shots, with the wi-fi. And you could use AE as a bridge to extend your range.

That would be a killer digicam.....

TWinbrook46636
Jun 16, 2004, 01:43 PM
Seeing as the casing size on the 20 GB won't be changing any time soon, why condense everything on the scroll wheel and leave all that empty space below the screen?

Because the four existing buttons will be needed for new features. ;)

yamabushi
Jun 16, 2004, 01:54 PM
Since demand is greater than supply there appears to be room for both companies products. Keep the Hitachi 4GB and insert the 5GB at a significantly higher price point and/or the 2.5GB at a slightly lower price. Keep a higher profit margin on the Seagate drives and any sales are just gravy on top of current Hitachi based iPod mini sales. If customers want to buy them and Apple only stands to make more profit, why not sell them?

SiliconAddict
Jun 16, 2004, 02:11 PM
Not likely. Why?

A) It is only 3200rpm vs 4800 rpm
B) They just spilled the beans and Stevie don't like that

A. RPM's aren't nearly as important on the iPod as on a desktop. First and foremost the iPod is a music player. You don't need a 7200RPM, 5400RPM, or even a 4800RPM drive to transfer a few MB of tracks to RAM.

B. Seagate hasn't spilled anything. You can't get any more vague then this. Apple can screw off. Seagate can run THEIR business any way they like and Jobs can't say squat about it and frankly Seagate or any other company shouldn't let another company be able to dictate how they do business. Again screw apple if they try it.
And if Apple, more like Steve doesn't like it tough ****. Stevie better be careful because if he gets any more pissed the only company he's going to have left to do business with is some company in Iran that sells hard drives based on the Flintstone tablet with a woodpecker inside making the indentations for the data files.

dongmin
Jun 16, 2004, 02:17 PM
I think it should be: 2.5 GB: $99
5 GB $199

no way, i'm not plunking down more than 50 cents for no 2.5 gig ipod...

seriously, i doubt there is that much of a price difference between the 2.5 gig drive and the 5 gig drive. i'd guess that we're talking about maybe $75 versus $100 OEM. you can't simply half the price, because the capacity is half.

the best part of this news bit is that Hitachi is seriously ramping up their production, from 200,000 to 2 mil a quarter. that, more than anything should impact the cost of the ipod minis.

seagate's arrival on the market bodes good things in the long run. it won't affect apple in the short run (since they're probably locked into a big order with hitachi) but now, apple has three potential suppliers with different options for drives--more possibilities for the mini.

webman2k
Jun 16, 2004, 02:33 PM
to me, a 2.5 seems pointless as a music player. if it went into a apple digital camera, now that would be something.

No way - 2.5 gig iPod mini at $99 - or $150 would be killer. 2.5 gig holds plenty of albums.

Sabbath
Jun 16, 2004, 02:42 PM
the best part of this news bit is that Hitachi is seriously ramping up their production, from 200,000 to 2 mil a quarter. that, more than anything should impact the cost of the ipod minis.

I just wish they can get them out over here (in the UK) sometime soon. I don't need one (I have a 3G 20gig) and I can't justify getting one, but I really want one. If only Apple would get them here soon, before I get control of myself and no longer want one. It doesn't seem like they will be selling them anytime soon, I can't even preorder one, which seems very strange. Maybe they will be updated before they get here.

PowerMacMan
Jun 16, 2004, 02:56 PM
No way - 2.5 gig iPod mini at $99 - or $150 would be killer. 2.5 gig holds plenty of albums.

That would be a smart move on Apple's part... With M$ planning on releasing cheap imitation 'iPods'

ccuilla
Jun 16, 2004, 03:00 PM
Regarding the camera discussion, there are a couple of things that seem possible:

1. No more worries about keeping tracking of memory cards. 2.5GB more than enough until you get to your computer. We have like 4-5 memory sticks ranging from 16MB to 256MB. Just a pain.

2. Simpler device interface. I hate these gadgets with a million stupid buttons. Do to the device interface what they did with iPod. NOTE: This is more true of MiniDV cameras than stills. But...

3. Wireless is interesting idea (and one being bantered about for iPod). Power is a potential problem...however TI has recently announced a lower power WiFi chip. We don't always know what components are in the pipleline for building these devices.

fixyourthinking
Jun 16, 2004, 03:17 PM
I think it should be: 2.5 GB: $99
5 GB $199

I think you are close but actually I think it should be like this:

NO GB and a compact flash card insert - this would also provide 35% more battery life if used with flash memory CF cards = $99

I don't see the 2.5 happening because Apple already has a cheap option for a 2.2GB. The majority of people's song collections I know range from 3 - 6 gigabytes.

I think the 5GB (if it turns up) should be priced at $199.

I'm almost sure we will see the iPods (full size) come down in price at the next revision by a factor of $50 each.

rendezvouscp
Jun 16, 2004, 03:20 PM
you said it! :)) the camera could still be about the size of an ipod (maybe even ipod mini??) you know..

also it wouldn't be that surprising if they some day released one. they already have a great app for digital photos. don't know how competitive those cameras would be though. also 2.5Gb is pretty much for a customer product where 256mb or 512mb is enough. for a system camera 2,5gb would kick ass!

I remember a few years ago I believe Apple said something about making a product for each of their iApps, so a camera wouldn't be too unexpected.
–Chase

bar italia
Jun 16, 2004, 03:36 PM
From today's Mitch Albom column:

"Tayshaun Prince gets a ring. Watching Prince defend Kobe Bryant was like watching the invention of the iPod; suddenly, everyone's going to want one."

P.S. - For Lord of the Rings types, and non-Americans, this refers to the NBA Finals.

rendezvouscp
Jun 16, 2004, 03:39 PM
From today's Mitch Albom column:

"Tayshaun Prince gets a ring. Watching Prince defend Kobe Bryant was like watching the invention of the iPod; suddenly, everyone's going to want one."

That's scarily true. Here in Long Beach, wherever I go and have my iPod, people are totally lured into Apple's design. You are "cool" if you have an iPod of sorts. Of the 60+ kids on the boys swim team, about 10 of us have iPods. That's huge.

Apple started the music revolution, I hope they keep it up with minis.
–Chase

rendezvouscp
Jun 16, 2004, 03:41 PM
I'm almost sure we will see the iPods (full size) come down in price at the next revision by a factor of $50 each.

Just curious, why? Why lower the price to a train that's going more places? They won't raise, but I don't think they will go down until there is a huge shift in the market.
–Chase

network23
Jun 16, 2004, 03:45 PM
also it wouldn't be that surprising if they some day released one. they already have a great app for digital photos.
They already did. (http://http://www.macdirectory.com/Reviews/Digital/quicktake.html)

.

bredlo
Jun 16, 2004, 04:22 PM
In a Reuters interview about the new drives, Dexheimer said: "We'd like to be. We're certainly talking to them about this product."

Doesn't this guy read? He just blew any shot of making that happen! :D

jsw
Jun 16, 2004, 04:33 PM
They already did. (http://http://www.macdirectory.com/Reviews/Digital/quicktake.html)

.

Might want to edit that link to this (http://www.macdirectory.com/Reviews/Digital/quicktake.html). Double 'http://' on it as it stands.

ethernet76
Jun 16, 2004, 04:49 PM
just because seagate are are currently in talks with apple to supply them with these drives does not automatically mean that the iPod mini will drop in price. i mean, come on, the Mini's have not even been launched outside of the US yet and you are talking about a price drop??? the original iPod hasn't even dropped in price yet!

The original had a price drop. From 400 to 300 back in the day when they only had two models.

ethernet76
Jun 16, 2004, 04:59 PM
I remember a few years ago I believe Apple said something about making a product for each of their iApps, so a camera wouldn't be too unexpected.
–Chase

In an already diluted market? What's to make apple stand out from nikon or any other company? It's highly doubtful Apple can take on the likes of Nikon, Sony and others in a game they've been out of forever. Outside of Mac zealots who would buy it?

I like my powerbook and all, but I'd probably never get an apple digital camera.

As for all those speculating on the apple camera with the 2.5 gb hd built in. Currently, 99% of digital prints are made off of media cards. Machines found in Wal-mart, CVS, and the likes have no USB or Firewire port because of the security issues it would cause. Therefore unless the 2.5 gb drive is removeable, it's pointless.

Some of the newer Kodak picturemakers have bluetooth, but how slow is that? Bessides, printing one of everything on a 512 card will easily bring most 1-hour photo labs to its knees because most labs use p3s with 256 of ram, based on Windows.

(Yes, my summer job between college semesters is 1-hour photo)

Edit: What most people are forgetting is that people want to make pictures out of their pictures. Nikon will not partner when they are the current digital leader. Unlike music, 256 is plenty. My camera gets 124 shots on a 256 at 4 mp.

Abstract
Jun 16, 2004, 05:29 PM
Apple won't make a DV or digital camera because there's nothing to gain by entering the current market....even if they add a 2.5GB harddrive.

They're not going to add WiFi to iPods that only last 8 hour as they are. People buy it because its simple to use, and because they look nice. A downside is the battery life, but if the battery life dropped even more, I think people would be reluctant to buy one. Yes, you can turn WiFi off, but how much of the battery would you drain if someone were to actually try moving 1GB worth of pictures to their computer wirelessly?

They're not going to use the Seagate products whatsoever unless they really need to due to production issues extending towards the end of the year. Just because someone produces something, doesn't mean that Apple is automatically involved. It would be funny if they had 3 manufacturers making HDDs for their iPods just because these companies made small HDDs.

The iPods seem slow enough, so with a HDD of 3200rpm instead of of 4800rpm, they'll be even slower than before.

How reliable are these HDD's, and how do they stand up to being shaken and such? Oh wait, nobody knows yet.

A 2.5GB HDD won't be too much cheaper than the 4GB HDDs made by Hitachi, like someone mentioned already. If Apple gets the 2.5GB's for $30 cheaper (say $70 instead of $100), all Apple can do is sell them for a bit cheaper. If they actually sold a 4GB Apple Mini for $249 and another 2.5GB model for $219 or something, it really won't work. If they sell it for cheaper than that, they'll make less money on each iPod mini than before.

ccuilla
Jun 16, 2004, 05:34 PM
In an already diluted market? What's to make apple stand out from nikon or any other company? It's highly doubtful Apple can take on the likes of Nikon, Sony and others in a game they've been out of forever. Outside of Mac zealots who would buy it?

I'm only so glad that Toyota didn't use this (terrible) rationalization for not entering the automobile market. Or Sony for not entering the consumer electronics market.

To be honest I don't know what Apple could do to stand out. I'm guessing they know better than me. They seem to have approached the music business quite wisely...figuring out what customer really want and do. It is quite possible that current camera providers are giving customers something they don't really want (but they are buying because there is little choice).

I don't pretend to know what those might be. I know, for me, I'd love to not worry about memory sticks. Have enough (built-in) capacity to not worry about space (too much). A built-in 2.5GB HD might be a piece of THAT puzzle. Device ease of use could be another.

I agree with Apple needing to be cautious, and they have already done that. There have been a handul of reports that Apple DID develop an iPhone product...but decided against going to market with it because of the market conditions that would have made it difficult for them to be successful (profitable). They may have looked at the camera market and decided the same (or be looking at it and seeing something no one else does.)

HiRez
Jun 16, 2004, 05:37 PM
Add AM/FM Radio Already! COMEON!!That would be cool, but what would be really awesome is if they built-in TiVo-like software to record radio programs. Imagine being able to listen to your favorite talk show or a ballgame on-to-go whenever you want to, and skip over the commercial breaks while you're at it. That might be the feature that just gets me to finally buy an iPod. Only real hurdle might be battery life :-/

coolfactor
Jun 16, 2004, 06:04 PM
Compact-flash baby! :) I hope Apple doesn't hesitate and works these little devices into the next rev models.

Not gonna happen. Apple doesn't want to play there. Compact Flash is on its way out.

coolfactor
Jun 16, 2004, 06:06 PM
That would be cool, but what would be really awesome is if they built-in TiVo-like software to record radio programs. Imagine being able to listen to your favorite talk show or a ballgame on-to-go whenever you want to, and skip over the commercial breaks while you're at it. That might be the feature that just gets me to finally buy an iPod. Only real hurdle might be battery life :-/

Not going to happen. For one, recording a radio program isn't technically legal, and I'd see Apple selling pre-recorded radio shows on iTMS before letting you freely record on-air broadcasts.

Sorry to rain on your fire.

rendezvouscp
Jun 16, 2004, 06:09 PM
Not gonna happen. Apple doesn't want to play there. Compact Flash is on its way out.

Are you kidding? Compactflash is widely supported and a pretty set standard for flash and hard drives. Unless I am totally out of the loop...
–Chase

TWinbrook46636
Jun 16, 2004, 06:10 PM
RPM's aren't nearly as important on the iPod as on a desktop. First and foremost the iPod is a music player. You don't need a 7200RPM, 5400RPM, or even a 4800RPM drive to transfer a few MB of tracks to RAM.

It does matter when the iPod only has 32MB of RAM. A few MB of tracks to RAM? We are talking about AIFF and AL files here which often exceed that amount. People have already reported trouble playing AL files on their current iPods. How would a slower drive help here? If Apple doubles the buffer size then it might not matter but why bother with these drives at all? I could see it if they were 8GB but we're talking one extra GB here.

TWinbrook46636
Jun 16, 2004, 06:20 PM
Are you kidding? Compactflash is widely supported and a pretty set standard for flash and hard drives. Unless I am totally out of the loop...
–Chase

The drive inside the iPod mini is a CF Microdrive, just without the proper interface. The earlier units along with the MuVo used a CF Microdrive with the proper interface. That is why people were tearing them apart to get at the card to use in their digital cameras. The 4GB CF Microdrive cost $650 separately at the time so it was an easy decision. Well, easy if you had a MuVo but not if you had an iPod mini. Who would want to destroy an iPod mini?

coolfactor
Jun 16, 2004, 06:23 PM
Are you kidding? Compactflash is widely supported and a pretty set standard for flash and hard drives. Unless I am totally out of the loop...
–Chase

Okay, time for me to do some reading up on Compact Flash. Didn't know that a rotating hard drive had anything to do with Compact Flash.

:p

--Edit--

Okay, did my reading. I still don't see any connection between a hard drive and Compact Flash. Anyone care to explain a connection?

HiRez
Jun 16, 2004, 06:32 PM
Not going to happen. For one, recording a radio program isn't technically legal, and I'd see Apple selling pre-recorded radio shows on iTMS before letting you freely record on-air broadcasts.That doesn't fall under "fair-use"? How can radio not when television does? Doesn't make sense. The networks and movie studios tried to have VCRs declared illegal when they were introduced, and failed. Is that not a strong precedent?

rendezvouscp
Jun 16, 2004, 06:36 PM
Not going to happen. For one, recording a radio program isn't technically legal, and I'd see Apple selling pre-recorded radio shows on iTMS before letting you freely record on-air broadcasts.

Technically? Where is it legal or not, and when was it made illegal? Just curious.
–Chase

Travis Novak
Jun 16, 2004, 06:42 PM
What would be nice is interchangable cf cards. You could slip in a five or 2.5gb hd or put in and fm tuner. Maybe even a back up battery or remote control. :)

iChan
Jun 16, 2004, 08:42 PM
All I know is - I would much rather have a Seagate running in my mini iPod, then a Hitachi drive.

why why why say this?? seagate do not even have their 1" drives on the market yet... so how do you know how they compare to the hitachi ones?

also, Hitachi produce the faster laptop HD's in the world right now, i personally have two 7K60E's and they are the fastest, most reliable HD's i have ever had the pleasure to use...

however, i don't mind Seagate, i was just wondering where you were coming from with your comments.

g4cubed
Jun 16, 2004, 08:55 PM
How about this: Tiger fixes all of Panther's flaws once and for all.

don't I wish, and everyone else. :D



Yeah, but you usually have to get back up. http://forums.macrumors.com/images/icons/icon4.gif

If you don't they just flip you over and throw dirt on ya :eek:

fixyourthinking
Jun 16, 2004, 09:12 PM
Just curious, why? Why lower the price to a train that's going more places? They won't raise, but I don't think they will go down until there is a huge shift in the market.
–Chase

Why? So the train can pick up more people - faster. 45% of the market is awesome 55% would deity status

JFreak
Jun 17, 2004, 12:21 AM
Add AM/FM Radio Already! COMEON!!

this will not happen. ipod stands for all-digital-lifestyle and premium-quaity, and the analog radio is neither. if ipod some day has a radio, it will be digital and not the 100-year-old version.

JFreak
Jun 17, 2004, 12:28 AM
By "upgrading" the 4gig to 5gig, another sector of consumers become "triggered" to make their move and buy.... you know, those who thought "If only they made them with 5 gig capacity"

yep.

one can select a top 4GB of the collection to a playlist, but often has to make sacrifices - one more gig and one could get just enough more favourites to go. i'd like that. 10GB in a mini would be just heaven, but i'd rather buy 5GB instead of 4GB even if it cost me some extra.

go for it, apple!

i might however buy the mini ipod the day they are available in europe, but it would be really superb if apple released 2.5GB and 5GB versions at the same time they announce the international availability ;) one can dream...

JFreak
Jun 17, 2004, 12:31 AM
Unlikely or not, it would be nice. I was a beta tester for the Apple QuickTake 100 (http://www.epi-centre.com/reports/9403cdi.html) many years ago. I think people forget that Apple more or less started the digital camera thing - or at least was there a decade ago. I'd like to see them get back into that area.

why?

apple had a vision back then, but could offer little to none to current models. apple doesn't want to enter into a field that already has a good competition and bad profit margin - that's why they don't make printers & scanners. no reason to make digital cameras either.

JFreak
Jun 17, 2004, 12:35 AM
All I know is - I would much rather have a Seagate running in my mini iPod, then a Hitachi drive.

why? hitachi has IBM technology which is far better than seagate's. actually, "hitachi" hard drives are in fact "ibm" hard drives but because ibm doesn't want to be in that field anymore, it has made a deal with hitachi and therefore hitachi sells ibm drives under their brand.

i think ibm currently only fabbes the server-spec hard drives under their own brand.

Eugene
Jun 17, 2004, 12:45 AM
Why on earth would apple reduce the price of something they can't keep in stock because it's selling so well?

If they had a bunch sitting on the shelf, they would consider it. Since they can't begin to keep up with demand, the question becomes (for them) is the price point too low?
To make sure demand keeps up. The minute the buzz dies down, the drop in sales is precipitous. Seagate is the first true competitor to Hitachi, unlike Magicstor. Apple would stand to benefit from cutting prices ahead of a forecasted dip in sales.

ITR 81
Jun 17, 2004, 01:01 AM
I would just forgo the 2.5GB and go for the 5GB..mostly because then they could drop the price of the current 4GB to $199 and put the 5GB at $249.

If they did release a 2.5GB iPod Mini I would figure it would sell for $129-149 range.

rendezvouscp
Jun 17, 2004, 01:15 AM
why?

apple had a vision back then, but could offer little to none to current models. apple doesn't want to enter into a field that already has a good competition and bad profit margin - that's why they don't make printers & scanners. no reason to make digital cameras either.

That makes sense. I don't see them entering the market again now.
–Chase

mospeada
Jun 17, 2004, 02:13 AM
Here's my take on 2.5 and 5GB hard drives. Apple won't be using the 2.5GB drives because it'll really cut into their margins (remember, the iPods are their money makers). Instead, Apple will use the 5GB models formatted as 4GB, as someone had already mentioned. In fact, it will behoove them to do so.

The rest of the computer industry already implements this practice anyways. AMD and Intel will downmarket a chip from, say, 2.8Ghz to 2.4Ghz if the market demands more 2.4Ghz chips. ATI will severe half of their rendering pipes (via software) just so there will be enough supply of the slower video card. Microsoft reformats 10GB hard drives to 8GB for their Xboxs.

So why can't Apple do the same? Certainly there's nothing in the iPod specifications that mention hard drive makers or rotation speeds. They can pop in a 5GB-turned-4GB hard drive and none would be the wiser (it's not like we're cracking open these things anyways). And having two hard drive suppliers are better than one. I know Hitachi said they are ramping up, but can you say "the IBM 3Ghz CPU Promise?"

An Apple iCamera? Probably won't happen either. The market is too crowded and the margins aren't that great unless they go 6MP or better. Hell, I can get a no-name 3MP digital camera for $80 these days. *The* market for Apple would be digital SLRs, but that would conflict with their "keep it simple, stupid" motto.

amols
Jun 17, 2004, 02:24 AM
why?

apple had a vision back then, but could offer little to none to current models. apple doesn't want to enter into a field that already has a good competition and bad profit margin - that's why they don't make printers & scanners. no reason to make digital cameras either.


They said the same thing when Sony released Playstation and when M$ jumped in with XBox. I know few people even questioned iPod's success when it first came out. No digital and electronics consumer market out there is profit making today, until you come out with the product which is as unique and cool as iPod. I think Apple understands the market trend of every product they release more than anyone. So if they decide to jump in digi-cam market, it'll be different than Nikkon or Olympus. After all, we all tend to think we have a perfect product, whether OS or iPod, until they release new features and then we wonder how we ever lived without it.

rdas7
Jun 17, 2004, 03:32 AM
After all, we all tend to think we have a perfect product, whether OS or iPod, until they release new features and then we wonder how we ever lived without it.

Apart from the iPod which just goes from strength to strength. I'm sure that while those who bought and hold a 1G iPod look at the 3G's or mini's and think "cool" - apart from new buttons, the iPod hasn't changed much. That is to say, it came in at number 1 and is showing no signs of dropping.

I've got a mini and live in London and people come up to me and ask me where I got it, how much it cost, etc. Nobody can believe that it's "only" $250 (around £135). Now there's a revolution: someone in disbelief about how *cheap* an Apple product is!

Now given the insane disparity between supply and demand, Apple really should be thinking to themselves whether their price point is in fact too low. They could have charged up to $350 for this and apparently the demand would still be there. I ordered my mini on the Apple Store website and suffered from massive delays (about 5-6 weeks before I actually received the device). They even offered me at one point a 3G 15GB iPod for no extra cost, which I declined - I wanted my mini!!! :)

No two ways about it: Apple hit a home run. It's out of the ballpark and nobody can find the ball.

amols
Jun 17, 2004, 05:04 AM
I've got a mini and live in London and people come up to me and ask me where I got it, how much it cost, etc.

I thought minis ain't available outside US. Correct me if I'm wrong ??

rdowns
Jun 17, 2004, 05:12 AM
I would just forgo the 2.5GB and go for the 5GB..mostly because then they could drop the price of the current 4GB to $199 and put the 5GB at $249.

If they did release a 2.5GB iPod Mini I would figure it would sell for $129-149 range.

How do you figure? The 2.5GB HD would cost Apple a few bucks less than the 4GB they use. How would that translate to a retail price of $100 less then the current mini? Apple's margins (albeit high) are lower on the mini than the iPods already. I don't see Apple selling any HD based iPod for under $249 (maybe $229) for quite some time. Their costs are in all the other components of the iPod and mini.

gerrycurl
Jun 17, 2004, 06:24 AM
what do you think of that, in the next ipods?

chocolab
Jun 17, 2004, 08:25 AM
So would I, but how ever will we get airport
technology in those tiny little units?

broadcom makes a really small 802.11b chip called airforce one. maybe they could use that

ccuilla
Jun 17, 2004, 09:44 AM
To make sure demand keeps up. The minute the buzz dies down, the drop in sales is precipitous. Seagate is the first true competitor to Hitachi, unlike Magicstor. Apple would stand to benefit from cutting prices ahead of a forecasted dip in sales.

Who has forecasted this (precipitous) dip in sales? You? Apple? Analysts (LOL)?

nologo
Jun 17, 2004, 02:43 PM
I don't...

the thing is, i don't want the iPod to become cheap and common...

i don't mind expensive and common. if you know what i mean.

at $99 and $199 respectively, the ipod will get commoditized and i don't think apple want that at this early in the game... especially because of the fact that there is no reason for it in teh world... the price shouold be going up if anything due to demand!

No, I don't know what you mean.

If you want to pay more money for the iPod mini, go right ahead. Alternatively, the lower the price point goes for the iPod mini (especially if there are two price points, instead of just the one that currently exists), Apple can attack more market share, not only competing with the 'high-end' flash players like Jobs was suggesting, but the low-end players as well.



I love it.... catch up with
consumer demand....
who could imagine?

at $149, Apple will create MORE
consumer demand, and then have
to catch up to that!!!

This is quite remarkable by any
business standards.


I completely agree with this: the cheaper the ipod mini gets, the -more- demand they will get, as -more- people will want it. If you make the iPod mini more money as you suggest, it will be the same price as the low-end iPod. Remember, there's only $50 dollars between the two - the only place for the iPod mini to go is down.

And yes, I realize most of what I have addressed has probably already been said, but I wasn't at liberty to go through all of the posts. Sorry if this is rehash.

Disco
Jun 20, 2004, 02:42 AM
... what do you mean you do not understand why they shouldn't lower prices. If they can't build enough to fill the current demand... then all lowering the price will do is make it even harder to fill the demand. They might as well get the orders they can at 250 before they lower them.

Eugene
Jun 20, 2004, 05:04 AM
... what do you mean you do not understand why they shouldn't lower prices. If they can't build enough to fill the current demand... then all lowering the price will do is make it even harder to fill the demand. They might as well get the orders they can at 250 before they lower them.
This isn't the fuel industry. The iPod mini is not a commodity...yet. I didn't say anything about dropping the prices now, but you have to figure the second production and demand intersect, $250 won't look nearly as enticing. One reason why the iPod mini is selling out all over the place is because Creative'd $200 MuVo2 is also selling out...to eBayers who are harvesting Microdrives. The second the supply of these players become unconstrained, the iPod mini's popularity will drop a bit. The second iPod mini production ramps up, the allure will fall even more. There's something mystical about a product you can't get your hands on. It makes you want to buy it more. Apple needs to keep the price at a point where the units are continually out of stock as long as it can without moving into the zero-margin zone.