Impressed with Windows 7..Anybody else?

[FF_productions]

I got myself a $330 Toshiba (needed something cheap for school..comes from the person with a mac pro lol) and downloaded the Windows 7 RC, I gotta say it, I like what I'm seeing. The "taskbar" has really turned into the dock, and Microsoft has added a magnifier app as well as an screen capture application. Those are just some features that have a nice hint of OS X in it.

Anybody else like how Windows 7 is turning out? I'm going to end up purchasing both Snow Leopard and Windows 7, I think it's going to be a really level playing field this time around.

[Eidorian]

Snipping Tool was around in Vista. I've rarely used the Magnifier under Windows.

Out of the box you get a lot of hardware support.

[FF_productions]

Oh, I must have not noticed those in Vista, cuz they stuck them in the Start Menu by default in Windows 7.

[Eidorian]

I use the Start Menu as an application launcher now unless it's pinned in my taskbar. Windows Key + # will a launch a pinned application incrementing from the left to right.

Snipping Tool is very useful for me in general. I'm fond of the Resource Monitor as well.

[xlii]

I'll be honest with you. I have Leopard and Windows 7 on my 13" MBP. But Windows 7 is just a big yawn to me. It's the same old Microsoft clutter, registry, apps spread all over the place. Sorry but I don't feel the excitment.

[clevin]

I do like the eye candy, I have RC on my AA1 netbook. As long as it works, I have no complain.

Its taskbar is definitely better than dock, with more substantial information on there rather than just a place holding shorcuts and minimized apps.

[xIGmanIx]

i am writing this on my windows 7 RC virtual machine. i would have to say i am impressed. Our work still uses Xp and downgrades all the machines from vista so this is my first interaction with this new style of OS and i have to say that i am really impressed and it makes my xp box look as outdated as it really is

[windywoo]

I'll be honest with you. I have Leopard and Windows 7 on my 13" MBP. But Windows 7 is just a big yawn to me. It's the same old Microsoft clutter, registry, apps spread all over the place. Sorry but I don't feel the excitment.

Typical idiot Mac fan, talking as if the registry gives an error every other minute, and the applications aren't all on the Start Menu. And as if you can't rearrange the start menu, or make shortcuts. As if 90% of all your work didn't revolve around 4 or 5 programs.

[aquadisiac]

Does one need a minimum of 2GB RAm like vista to run windows 7? and where are you guys buying it from?

[windywoo]

Windows 7 ran quite well on my Macbook with 1GB of RAM although I admit I didn't do anything more ambitious than web surfing. Vista ran very slowly on the same Macbook, so the system requirements have certainly lessened.

[djellison]

If Keynote wasn't OSX only, I'd probably be quite happy switching back to a Win7 machine.

[SnowLeopard2008]

I hated Windows because it's Windows. And now I hate it even more because once again, Microsoft fails to use their own ideas, ripping off Mac OS X counterparts like the Dock. But yes, it's an improvement over Vista, but anything is.

[kitenski]

very much liking Win7,been running it since the early Beta.

[THX1139]

What about the prompts? Does 7 ask all those stupid questions like every previous version did? I hated that about Windows!

[MorphingDragon]

I like that Microsoft is starting to learn their lesson in some areas, then reverting in others.

Tell me why I would pay good money for a KDE 4.X clone?

That doesn't excuse Apple either, I'm sure Steve Jobs is becoming ashamed because of Apple Inc's recent events. You know, unless he already sold his soul.

They both have such great programmers making the software. Too bad the higher ups ruin the image.

[SactoGuy18]

I've played with the Windows 7 RC1 Professional edition and I'm impressed--it is VERY stable and in many ways faster than Windows Vista Home Premium (SP2) (mostly because MS highly-optimized the code for x86 machines, what with MS wanting it to run on netbooks with 2 GB of RAM).

[maflynn]

I played with win7 during the beta and while it certainly was better then Vista I'm still a bit unimpressed. I'm not sure if I'll plunk down the cash for it. I've been able to use Ubuntu for all of my needs that windows would have been used for.

I typically only use windows for connecting to my company via vpn and managing servers. I can do all of that just as easy in Ubuntu. In fact much easier since I have no virus issues to worry about and all of the connectivity is already there.

Then there's that windows advantage and activation stuff I don't have worry about either. When I'm not in OSX, I'll be logged into Ubuntu and I've not missed windows yet.

[MisterMe]

Typical idiot Mac fan, talking as if the registry gives an error every other minute, and the applications aren't all on the Start Menu. And as if you can't rearrange the start menu, or make shortcuts. As if 90% of all your work didn't revolve around 4 or 5 programs.You come to a Mac fan site and criticize the members for being Mac fans? Talk about picking low-hanging fruit!

That said, the standard should not be that the Registry becomes corrupted less. It should not become corrupted ever. However, the Registry is a bad concept. It can't be perfected. Idiot Windows fans accept its flaws.

[FF_productions]

What about the prompts? Does 7 ask all those stupid questions like every previous version did? I hated that about Windows!

It's called "User Account Control" UAC, you can disable it in the account preferences in the control panel. (Have to reboot)

EDIT: That's in Vista, in Windows 7 you can toggle the amount of messages it bugs you with, or you can turn it off completely, still requires a reboot.

May as well throw this in, yesterday was my 2nd day of using Windows 7, I'm really liking it so far. I installed Open Office, bunch of freebie apps, and it really does the job. I used to be a hardcore Apple fan, but I realized that there are other OS's out there that can do the same thing. I still love Apple, no doubt, but I must give Microsoft serious credit for this one.

[xlii]

Typical idiot Mac fan, talking as if the registry gives an error every other minute, and the applications aren't all on the Start Menu. And as if you can't rearrange the start menu, or make shortcuts. As if 90% of all your work didn't revolve around 4 or 5 programs.

Nope, I'm hardly an idiot Mac fan. In fact OSX is the last in a long line of OSes that I've cut my teeth on.

The first couple were Tops10, Tops20, VMS...

Windows 7 like all the Windows machines the stuff is lying all over the place. It's cluttered and messy. I gave Windows 7 a spin and I found it boring. Sorry to have upset you.

[thejadedmonkey]

You come to a Mac fan site and criticize the members for being Mac fans? Talk about picking low-hanging fruit!

That said, the standard should not be that the Registry becomes corrupted less. It should not become corrupted ever. However, the Registry is a bad concept. It can't be perfected. Idiot Windows fans accept its flaws.

The registry, from my experience, can become just as corrupted as .plist files can on OS X. Otherwise, Microsoft has really fixed all of the registry errors of the Win 9x days.

and back on topic... I really like OS X. So much so that I'll be letting my girlfriend use my MBP and getting myself a spiffy little Dell Mini 12 to use. (yes, my needs have changed dramatically in the 2 years I've owned my MBP :P )

[belvdr]

Nope, I'm hardly an idiot Mac fan. In fact OSX is the last in a long line of OSes that I've cut my teeth on.

The first couple were Tops10, Tops20, VMS...

Windows 7 like all the Windows machines the stuff is lying all over the place. It's cluttered and messy. I gave Windows 7 a spin and I found it boring. Sorry to have upset you.

TOPS-10. Never used it myself, but my last employer still had user identification from when it related to it.

I have to say OS X does the same thing as Windows regarding design updates. The OS X dock and overall user interface has remained the same for quite some time now too. They have added features for sure, but the same UI design remains the same.

I'm not sure what's cluttered and messy about Windows in general. I'm able to find things I need quickly, and never hear anyone mention cluttered or messy except at this site.

[belvdr]

The registry, from my experience, can become just as corrupted as .plist files can on OS X. Otherwise, Microsoft has really fixed all of the registry errors of the Win 9x days.

Similar, but not the same. If I install 100 apps, then I could potentially have 100 plist files laying around after uninstalling.

The problem with the registry is that it's a one stop shop. A corrupt registry impacts the entire system and other apps. A corrupt pfile impacts only one application.

You don't see that global effect with individual configuration/preferences files. That's why Unix or Unix-based systems are more stable over time.

[Shivetya]

I hated Windows because it's Windows. And now I hate it even more because once again, Microsoft fails to use their own ideas, ripping off Mac OS X counterparts like the Dock. But yes, it's an improvement over Vista, but anything is.

Yeah, I hated that dock like thing in OS/2 too :P

[MisterMe]

Yeah, I hated that dock like thing in OS/2 too :PRead and be wise (http://www.jeremyreimer.com/apple_screens.html).

[MTI]

How to look at this . . . should anyone, Apple fan or not, be impressed that a compnay essentially took nearly three years (January 2007 retail release date) to complete the beta testing of an operating system, but changed the name to Windows 7 for release in October 2009? Didn't those Vista users know they were beta testers? :D

[clevin]

I hated Windows because it's Windows. And now I hate it even more because once again, Microsoft fails to use their own ideas, ripping off Mac OS X counterparts like the Dock. But yes, it's an improvement over Vista, but anything is.
u hate things non-apple, lets face it, you hate a thing without even knowing it, and you call a thing rip off without even try it.

and talk about rip off again, did I ever mention to you specifically that the core of OSX is rip off from Unix/BSD, and the core of safari is rip off from Konqueror?

rip off. apple copy just as much, if not more than MS did, from people around.
How to look at this . . . should anyone, Apple fan or not, be impressed that a compnay essentially took nearly three years (January 2007 retail release date) to complete the beta testing of an operating system, but changed the name to Windows 7 for release in October 2009? Didn't those Vista users know they were beta testers? :D

last time I checked, Vista has 18% market share, 4 times of OSX. You can call it beta as you want, fact is its just not as bad as somebody portray it to be.

and talk about beta, apple putting beta out every two years, let their users test for 6 months, and get a stable version after 3 patches. Together, since first OSX 10.0, users have spent 2 years for beta testing, not exactly a pretty picture neither.

dont OSX users who preorder or stood in line for first day purchases know they are beta testers? what do you think? :p:p

[blackhand1001]

Does one need a minimum of 2GB RAm like vista to run windows 7? and where are you guys buying it from?

No you don't. I have successfully ran it on a pentium III 800mhz today with only 256 mb of ram and it was pretty snappy and quick.

[Bill Gates]

No you don't. I have successfully ran it on a pentium III 800mhz today with only 256 mb of ram and it was pretty snappy and quick.
"Pretty snappy and quick?" I can hardly believe that. Perhaps it bested your expectations, but Windows 7 is definitely not the OS of choice for a computer with those specs; Windows 2000 or XP would provide a much better experience.

I would say that I'm not overly impressed with Windows 7. Don't get me wrong; it's a nice product. I'm more relieved that I don't have to hear incessant whining about Vista anymore, and that computing will be better overall thanks to the improved security and stability initially implemented by Vista, and finally adopted en masse by those that were unwilling, or unable, to implement Windows Vista in their homes and workplaces. Windows XP has been the standard for far too long, and I'm glad to see it go.

[MTI]

last time I checked, Vista has 18% market share, 4 times of OSX. You can call it beta as you want, fact is its just not as bad as somebody portray it to be.

and talk about beta, apple putting beta out every two years, let their users test for 6 months, and get a stable version after 3 patches. Together, since first OSX 10.0, users have spent 2 years for beta testing, not exactly a pretty picture neither.

dont OSX users who preorder or stood in line for first day purchases know they are beta testers? what do you think? :p:p

Yes, with 4X the market share, it means that Redmond disappointed many more users, particularly those that paid for the pricey corporate licensing agreements, than any other version of an OS in history.

Just as a practical example . . . take a copy of Windows XP Home or Professional or any Vista flavor in its original retail distribution form and time how long it takes to acquire and install all the published Service Packs, security patches, IE Browser updates and patches, Win Media Player updates and patches from the MS Windows Update website. Don't forget the multiple reboots and rescans.

Do the same from a retail copy of OS X 10.5.0.

I've done both several times. Care to guess which one is faster? I think you already may have an idea.

[Eidorian]

Just as a practical example . . . take a copy of Windows XP Home or Professional or any Vista flavor in its original retail distribution form and time how long it takes to acquire and install all the published Service Packs, security patches, IE Browser updates and patches, Win Media Player updates and patches from the MS Windows Update website. Don't forget the multiple reboots and rescans..Slipstream or image.

You can't slipstream under OS X. You're always stuck with the media at its original version and level of hardware support.

[designgeek]

I'm downloading the RC right now to give it a shot, I'll let you know what I think provided it works.

[clevin]

"Pretty snappy and quick?" I can hardly believe that. Perhaps it bested your expectations, but Windows 7 is definitely not the OS of choice for a computer with those specs; Windows 2000 or XP would provide a much better experience.

win 7 does boot faster and log in faster than xp on my AA1 with 1G RAM. believe is not needed, just need to try it out....

Im running it right now.

[robanga]

Definitely impressed. Have it running on a boot camp partition of a Mac Mini. Performance is far better than Vista that I have running on a MBP and a Dell laptop. Crashes far less. Aesthetically its even a better experience.

[MTI]

Slipstream or image.

You can't slipstream under OS X. You're always stuck with the media at its original version and level of hardware support.

Try getting the average user to create a slipstreamed disc with all the Service Pack and current updates in less time than it takes to bring OS X to current . . that's the ticket.

Slipstreaming install discs is the way to go when doing multiple machines or to have as a backup disc, but first you have to get the user to create it.

[dejo]

win 7 does boot faster and log in faster than xp on my AA1 with 1G RAM.
I guess if all you're ever doing is rebooting and logging in, it might appear snappier. But I suspect most people would like to do other things with their netbooks. ;)

[sl1200mk2]

I guess if all you're ever doing is rebooting and logging in, it might appear snappier. But I suspect most people would like to do other things with their netbooks. ;)

I have a circa 2003/2004 (custom built) P4 box (Northwood chip) with 1GB that used XP with for 4 years, Vista for a year or so and now Win 7. I've always used the machine for heavy 'pro app' use (Cubase, Sony Vegas, Photoshop, etc). XP was great, but when you began pushing it things would definitely show and usually rather quickly it'd just 'give up'. Vista was worse in either 32bit or 64bit (no real advantage to x64 in my case but I tried it anyway).

Win 7 has been an absolute joy to use. Everything I've thrown at the RC has been just as or more stable than XP and the system remains far more responsive and graceful under heavy load (exceeding the physical memory as an example). I've never experienced a 'blue screen' either Win 7 or Server 2008, though I'm sure it happens.

I recently added another 1GB to this machine (found ram I originally paid $400 for in '04 for $5!!) and it was like getting a new machine. Yes, XP would have seen a great deal of improvement as well, but Win 7 really shines now. It's allowed me to hold off another year or two on getting a desktop replacement during tight financial times. Granted, when I do replace it, I'll be getting a Mac Pro! :D

I would absolutely put Win 7 on any machine with somewhat modern specs (P4 2.0 / AMD equivelent or better and 1GB ram) with little reservation.

And before I get (possibly) flamed for all this different software, it's all 100% legal and I get advanced access to virtually everything Microsoft. I work for a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner (we're in the hosting industy) and our MSDN / Technet accounts get us invite only and beta access to everything, so I wind up trying a lot (especially on the server side of things).

Yes, I work in a Microsoft centric environment and I'm not afraid to bash them where due, but Win 7 and it's Server 2008 brother is a damn solid OS.

[neiltc13]

I hated Windows because it's Windows. And now I hate it even more because once again, Microsoft fails to use their own ideas, ripping off Mac OS X counterparts like the Dock. But yes, it's an improvement over Vista, but anything is.

Why does it bother you where the ideas come from?

Microsoft's implementation is much better than Apple's, but you're willing to sit there and ignore it just because of some pride for a corporation?

Riiiight.

[niuniu]

Wonder what's taken them so long. OS X has been out for quite some time for them to copy..

[nora.bg]

I am looking forward to Windows 7, but I also do not get too carried away. As I have to work with Windows I hope that Version 7 is faster than Vista and that it lowers the hardware requirements.
In a magazine I read that Windows 7 is more a Service Pack for Vista than a new OS. But I don't care if it gets the job done ...

[ironman159]

Thank god Windows 7 is EXCELLENT. COMPETITION IS GOOD. I hope it makes Apple make Snow Leopard better.

[SnowLeopard2008]

Not really impressed. The changes they made are only skin-deep. Once you use it regularly, you notice the same problems Vista had.

[WickedRabbit]

Windows 7 is definitely pretty nice and runs extremely well. There are a few little things in there that I actually hope to see Apple steal ideas from. For example, I like the fact that with having your wallpapers set to change every x amount of minutes you can also right click on the desktop and there's a "next wallpaper" option. I find that often times there's a wallpaper on my Mac that's in rotation that maybe I downloaded months ago or longer and I could care less for it. The fact that you also don't remember the name anymore hurts and I don't feel like going through my 10,000 wallpapers to delete the one, so having the "next wallpaper" option (perhaps someone should add a "view current wallpaper details" option on the desktop too) is great.

The window docking was genious (drag the window to the right or left so it docks to 50% of the screen on that side u can have multiple windows side by side perfectly aligned) and one that I've been waiting to see someone add for quite some time.

Libraries are nice, but not as well designed as Mac's smart folders and being able to view quick info when right click things on the task bar (windows 7's version of the Dock) was excellent.

Overall, it's a smooth running operation system and I noticed during beta and RC that it shuts down and starts up a lot faster unlike previous Windows version and more like Mac's OS.

Overall, it's a Windows that for once I actually really enjoyed and not just "liked".

[SnowLeopard2008]

Windows 7 is definitely pretty nice and runs extremely well. There are a few little things in there that I actually hope to see Apple steal ideas from. For example, I like the fact that with having your wallpapers set to change every x amount of minutes you can also right click on the desktop and there's a "next wallpaper" option. I find that often times there's a wallpaper on my Mac that's in rotation that maybe I downloaded months ago or longer and I could care less for it. The fact that you also don't remember the name anymore hurts and I don't feel like going through my 10,000 wallpapers to delete the one, so having the "next wallpaper" option (perhaps someone should add a "view current wallpaper details" option on the desktop too) is great.

The window docking was genious (drag the window to the right or left so it docks to 50% of the screen on that side u can have multiple windows side by side perfectly aligned) and one that I've been waiting to see someone add for quite some time.

Libraries are nice, but not as well designed as Mac's smart folders and being able to view quick info when right click things on the task bar (windows 7's version of the Dock) was excellent.

Overall, it's a smooth running operation system and I noticed during beta and RC that it shuts down and starts up a lot faster unlike previous Windows version and more like Mac's OS.

Overall, it's a Windows that for once I actually really enjoyed and not just "liked".

Who has 10K wallpapers? :eek: Aside from you, do you know at least 2 people that have 10K or similar numbers of wallpapers? Because that is just extreme....

[Rodimus Prime]

I played with the beta of window 7 on my PC. It ran really well and I was very impressed with it. It was to the point where I am considering upgrading off my windows XP install up to something of a little more meat to it.
My biggest problem will be that it will force me to do a clean install to move over to 64 bit and a lot of my software is 32 bit. But for the most part it would be nice to make the jump.

What I have seen of it has impressed me and it looks like it will be able to replace XP. Plus with XP support being dropped in the next year or so it is going to switch over.

Lets face it XP biggest problem is it is a very old OS and is being ask to do things it was never designed to handle. It took a long time for XP to replace windows 2000 but it was forced when support for windows 2000 was dropped. It is going to happen for XP as well. Microsoft biggest mistake with XP is they let it last for so long that changing became very difficult.

[WickedRabbit]

Who has 10K wallpapers? :eek: Aside from you, do you know at least 2 people that have 10K or similar numbers of wallpapers? Because that is just extreme....

Just a huge collection over the years. But, the count isn't what's really important. Even if I had way less than that it was still a good idea for Microsoft to add in the "next wallpaper" option in case you just don't want to see the one that's currently on the screen.

And to answer your question, I can actually name at least a dozen people that I know of that have close to that number and in a few cases more than that. A lot of us are media enthusiasts in the fullest regard and we save pretty much anything that we like and have kept that collection over the years. You're looking at a guy who's packing two nearly maxed out Drobo's.

[djellison]

Once you use it regularly, you notice the same problems Vista had.

I use it regularly. I do not notice the same problems Vista had.

Have YOU used it regularly? Have YOU used Vista regularly?

Something tells me ( maybe it's your forum ID ) that you probably have not.

[waynesun]

Same sentiment. Really felt like Win7 was a huge improvement. I actually enjoy using it more than Leopard from time to time. Microsoft is really stepping their game up with their UI design. Here's hoping that Snow Leopard has some cool improvements to offset the effects that Win7 has had on me.

[Annngel]

You guys tried it with the aero theme turn on? Does it still hog resources like mad..

[sl1200mk2]

My biggest problem will be that it will force me to do a clean install to move over to 64 bit and a lot of my software is 32 bit. But for the most part it would be nice to make the jump.

This is practice really isn't an issue. Most, if not all of the software I've run since the beginning of the RC and now on the RTM release has been 32bit. In fact, I haven't found any of my prior applications for either home or work that wouldn't run on 64bit and I'm talking about some really old stuff too. They just run as 32bit.

I think it might still be possible to grab the 64bit RC release. If it is, image your current system to back it up, then install the RC and give it a shot. If not, you can always load your prior image back up. I use Acronis True Image. I think they offer a 30day demo if you wish to play around.

[sl1200mk2]

Not really impressed. The changes they made are only skin-deep. Once you use it regularly, you notice the same problems Vista had.

Sorry, but that's just not true. There are quite a few underlying architectural and kernal changes.

One example: http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going+Deep/Mark-Russinovich-Inside-Windows-7/

If you're interested, this is easy information to find. You might not be interested at all, and that's fine too... just keep on believing the FUD you'll mostly read here. :rolleyes:

Personally, I like being a big fan of both platforms and technology (from anyone) in general. :cool:

[EmperorDarius]

I am not impressed. If I had used Vista as much as I have used Xp, I would be. Because it's really a gigantic step forward from Vista.

However having mainly used Xp, I'm not impressed. Windows 7 is still slower than Xp (not by much, but still slower). It fails to offer a good performing and good looking GUI. The aero interface is not only resource consuming but also very ugly. The classic interface is much lighter, but not any better when it comes to the look.

Things have improved. The Memory management is better than both Xp and Vista. (Though it still has some flaws)
The Security is similar to Vista, though UAC is certainly better (Though I don't think it'll take much time for malware writers to bypass it, like they do with Vista)

The new taskbar gets really messy with a lot of applications opened. But other than that, it certainly is better than the old Windows one. Nothing revolutionary though, being used to the Dock.

Aero Peek doesn't seem very useful to me. Hiding all windows is certainly better.

The Boot speed has been improved, yet much much slower than Leopard's (and certainly Snow Leopard's)

I like what they have done with media format support, though I'd never use Media Player. It's either VLC or KMPLayer for me.

I don't like having gadgets sitting on my desktop.

I don't like the Ribbon interface of the apps. Big fail.

And I don't like the "Editions" or Windows 7.

Overall, except for the slower speed, Windows Xp users should upgrade to 7. Though the process is quite tedious. In any case, Windows 7 is what Vista was should have been. Accept it or not, Vista users have been nothing but Beta testers for Windows 7. Well, at least Vista user's pain has has been paid off somewhat. No wait. That would've been if Windows 7 was a free upgrade to Vista users. And for Xp users, who were stuck with a 2001 OS just because there was no other choice.

In the very end, it's still Windows. With the registry, insecurity and instability it always had.

[clevin]

I am not impressed. If I had used Vista as much as I have used Xp, I would be. Because it's really a gigantic step forward from Vista.

However having mainly used Xp, I'm not impressed. Windows 7 is still slower than Xp (not by much, but still slower). It fails to offer a good performing and good looking GUI. The aero interface is not only resource consuming but also very ugly. The classic interface is much lighter, but not any better when it comes to the look.

Things have improved. The Memory management is better than both Xp and Vista. (Though it still has some flaws)
The Security is similar to Vista, though UAC is certainly better (Though I don't think it'll take much time for malware writers to bypass it, like they do with Vista)

The new taskbar gets really messy with a lot of applications opened. But other than that, it certainly is better than the old Windows one. Nothing revolutionary though, being used to the Dock.

Aero Peek doesn't seem very useful to me. Hiding all windows is certainly better.

The Boot speed has been improved, yet much much slower than Leopard's (and certainly Snow Leopard's)

I like what they have done with media format support, though I'd never use Media Player. It's either VLC or KMPLayer for me.

I don't like having gadgets sitting on my desktop.

I don't like the Ribbon interface of the apps. Big fail.

And I don't like the "Editions" or Windows 7.

Overall, except for the slower speed, Windows Xp users should upgrade to 7. Though the process is quite tedious. In any case, Windows 7 is what Vista was should have been. Accept it or not, Vista users have been nothing but Beta testers for Windows 7. Well, at least Vista user's pain has has been paid off somewhat. No wait. That would've been if Windows 7 was a free upgrade to Vista users. And for Xp users, who were stuck with a 2001 OS just because there was no other choice.

In the very end, it's still Windows. With the registry, insecurity and instability it always had.
too many personal opinions, which is fine since the topic is all about it.

apple users spend a quarter of time beta testing for OSX as well anyway, since apple always release OSX 6 month premature and make 2-3 patches subsequently to fix problems.

Im just saying win 7 runs fine on a netbook.

[EmperorDarius]

apple users spend a quarter of time beta testing for OSX as well anyway, since apple always release OSX 6 month premature and make 2-3 patches subsequently to fix problems.


I don't agree. The only time when Apple made that mistake was with OS X 10.0. That really was too soon. Other than that, I usually have never had any serious problem with a 10.x.1 update.

And besides, Vista's problems haven't really been fixed with Service Packs. Microsoft is asking customers to PAY for a fixed version of Vista. (Snow Leopard is not really a fixed version of Leopard, but anyway, even if we consider it that way, the price Microsoft asks for a 7 upgrade is simply ridiculous.

[SnowLeopard2008]

Just a huge collection over the years. But, the count isn't what's really important. Even if I had way less than that it was still a good idea for Microsoft to add in the "next wallpaper" option in case you just don't want to see the one that's currently on the screen.

And to answer your question, I can actually name at least a dozen people that I know of that have close to that number and in a few cases more than that. A lot of us are media enthusiasts in the fullest regard and we save pretty much anything that we like and have kept that collection over the years. You're looking at a guy who's packing two nearly maxed out Drobo's.

Pack rats! :D Alright, you win. :)

I use it regularly. I do not notice the same problems Vista had.

Have YOU used it regularly? Have YOU used Vista regularly?

Something tells me ( maybe it's your forum ID ) that you probably have not.

My forum ID has nothing to do with the fact that Windows 7 is still Vista at it's core. You get new bells and whistles, but it's still Vista at it's core. I do agree that Windows 7 is much improved and I already pre-ordered 2 copies, one for my MBP and one for my mom's Dell.

Sorry, but that's just not true. There are quite a few underlying architectural and kernal changes.

One example: http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going+Deep/Mark-Russinovich-Inside-Windows-7/

If you're interested, this is easy information to find. You might not be interested at all, and that's fine too... just keep on believing the FUD you'll mostly read here. :rolleyes:

Personally, I like being a big fan of both platforms and technology (from anyone) in general. :cool:

Same here, but I'm only a fan of OS X and XP/Windows 7. Vista was a horrible failure no matter how you try to explain or justify it's existence.

The underlying architectural and kernel changes you mentioned haven't changed it completely. There are still many parts of Vista in Windows 7. For example, the UAC. Microsoft did not completely rewrite the OS, just made changes to Vista. So yes, there are quite a few changes, but they started from Vista.

[sl1200mk2]

Microsoft did not completely rewrite the OS, just made changes to Vista. So yes, there are quite a few changes, but they started from Vista.

This is absolutely correct, but I think one big point gets missed. Vista inherited a new, very modular architecture directly from Server 2008. Microsoft no longer needs to go through huge rewrites of an entire OS to get desirable results. They only have to address what needs to be 'fixed' or evolved. Win 7 is a direct representation of building off Vista and thus that platform, but making some large steps in the right direction. Microsoft is no longer writing two completely different platforms for server and desktops. They have one core and create, add and remove modules as needed. Revolutionary idea? Hardly, but it's getting dramatic results on both the desktop and server fronts.

The big reason why Vista 'sucked' was that (as a platform) is was such a departure from XP. It took time to get right, especially with 3rd party drivers; hands down the source of most peoples pain. Things had to be fixed and unfortunately it took a full product cycle to get where they should have been in the first place. MS took a big PR hit and a rightly deserved kick in the rear.

It pretty much reminds me of the first release of OS X. IMHO, 10.1 and 10.2 sucked pretty badly. I wouldn't (didn't) buy a Mac back then because of it. It wasn't until late 10.2 (10.3 released soon after) that I bought in because it started to mature. If we really want to be real, I know, that's awfully hard around here, OS X didn't fully come into it's own until pretty recently. It wasn't until 10.5 that I said "holy S this is really good" and now want to go from laptops to desktops.

Anyway... good discussion!

[OneMike]

When I tried out windows 7 I was definitely impressed with it. Not enough to ditch my macs but Windows may be a choice again in the future.

[clevin]

the price Microsoft asks for a 7 upgrade is simply ridiculous.
$120 is indeed pricey, but certainly no ridiculous.
The underlying architectural and kernel changes you mentioned haven't changed it completely. Microsoft did not completely rewrite the OS, just made changes to Vista. So yes, there are quite a few changes, but they started from Vista.

there is no major OS in current computers that don't have a 20+ years old kernel.

if you want to imply that apple somehow completely rewrite an OS from scratch around 2000, then it would be a lie.

[EmperorDarius]

$120 is indeed pricey, but certainly no ridiculous.


It's ridiculous since they've forced their customers to either use an incomplete and buggy *Beta* OS or an 8 year old OS. The upgrade should have been free, or at least very very cheap.

[spillproof]

I never upgrade to Vista because I did not like it very much. I just might have to upgrade to Win 7 from XP because I'm very happy with it.

[jalagl]

I upgraded my work laptop this week to Windows 7, and so far am very happy with it. Keep in mind I upgraded form Windows XP, and never used Vista. This is on a 13" laptop with a Core 2 Duo 2GHz CPU and 4GB of RAM, using Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit. So far my impressions are:


Recognized everything (hardware) out of the box. It is a year(ish)-old laptop.
It has a certain "lag" when starting actions, but is pretty snappy afterwards. Hard to describe it exactly... seems like it takes a second to open a window, then renders everything instantly.
Had one crash already that resulted in a BSOD: http://yfrog.com/95l9np
Really like the taskbar an "pinning" apps to the Start menu.
Windows XP Mode works kinda well for a couple of old legacy apps I have to run. The integration with Win7 from XP Mode apps isn't as streamlined as it should, but the performance hasn't bothered me so far. (Using XP Mode RC)
Have been able to find my way around configuration settings, which I heard was a big pain in Vista (never used Vista myself)
Like the way app windows "stack" on the taskbar, with a quick live preview similar to Exposé. I normally have tens of windows open, and this makes it more manageable.
Went through A LOT of UAT prompts the first couple of days, as I was installing stuff and setting up the laptop the way I like it. After that, only seen a couple of them, so it doesn't seem to be as annoying as I've heard it was in Vista.


Overall, I think it is a worthwhile upgrade. I'll, however, stick with OSX on my home computer and upgrade to Snow Leopard as soon as it is available. :D

[clevin]

It's ridiculous since they've forced their customers to either use an incomplete and buggy *Beta* OS or an 8 year old OS. The upgrade should have been free, or at least very very cheap.

thats your opinion, certainly you are entitled to.

But on this matter, its more a question of what most vista users think. I don't believe Vista is as bad as people trying to portray it. Apple maybe successfully generated much of the negative public opinions at the beginning with its infamous mac vs pc ads, that doesn't mean its necessarily true. Its not like apple was sincerely making fact based cases in any of its ads.

Standing from the different side, people can argue apple's OSX in the past 9 years, has put their users on alpha beta testing for at least 2 years, apple still charges $129 each until 10.6. Is that ridiculous? over the past 9 years, its total of $500+ and 20% of the times, its reinstalling the system, and testing. How good is that then?

Apple users can forget apple's behavior, then they shouldn't throw stones at windows, after all, their glass house isn't much stronger.

[MorphingDragon]

and talk about rip off again, did I ever mention to you specifically that the core of OSX is rip off from Unix/BSD, and the core of safari is rip off from Konqueror?


Umm, UNIX has become a Generic term, irrelevant point. The Kernel comes from technology developed to replace the Kernel in BSD and NeXTSTEP was developed as a drop-in replacement for BSD. In Essence, BSD no longer exists in Mac OSX, all components of Mac OSX were designed to replace BSD. SOME processes are BSD but that has diminished greatly. I believe the IP Stack is still BSD in Windows too. In Fact Apple dont even deny it, on the Darwin Page, they say "Darwin integrates a number of technologies, most importantly Mach 3.0, operating-system services based on 4.4BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution)" Not the OS itself.

Cocoa/Carbon and Objective-C were NeXT Technologies.
I dont know about your programming ability but all Cocoa functions are NSSomethingSomething. Like NSGarbageCollector or NSString. NS stands for NeXTSTEP.

WebKit was a fork of KHTML. Safari is based around WebKit. Chrome is based around Webkit. Bash Safari then fairly bash Chome, Nokia Browser, Chrome OS etc etc aswell. Be fair to other products, otherwise your just being hypocritical.

[EmperorDarius]

But on this matter, its more a question of what most vista users think. I don't believe Vista is as bad as people trying to portray it. Apple maybe successfully generated much of the negative public opinions at the beginning with its infamous mac vs pc ads, that doesn't mean its necessarily true. Its not like apple was sincerely making fact based cases in any of its ads.

I'm a Vista user. I use Vista periodically (though I mostly use Xp, when using Windows). And I think that Vista is awful. Pretty much everyone I know hates Vista. Most of them have just downgraded to Xp. I don't really care about Apple ads, I care about my experience.

Standing from the different side, people can argue apple's OSX in the past 9 years, has put their users on alpha beta testing for at least 2 years, apple still charges $129 each until 10.6. Is that ridiculous? over the past 9 years, its total of $500+ and 20% of the times, its reinstalling the system, and testing. How good is that then?

The only time when Apple did user users as beta testers was in the beginning of OS X. (10.0-10.2). That's true. After that, every OS was a stable OS. $129 is a good price. So let's say that 129$ got wasted. Look at what Microsoft is asking for the Ultimate Edition.

[yoyo5280]

I am actually disappointed with Seven.

From all the hype I thought it would be great, but literally during the set up I found interface glitches that irked me.

I never used vista, and I have heard of the dreaded security system. Well it welcomed me in my first 5 minutes of Seven. Like 5 times.


I don't think i'm getting Aero though cause I am running through VirtualBox.

-Omi

[chrono1081]

I'll be honest with you. I have Leopard and Windows 7 on my 13" MBP. But Windows 7 is just a big yawn to me. It's the same old Microsoft clutter, registry, apps spread all over the place. Sorry but I don't feel the excitment.

+1. Windows seriously needs to ditch the registry. (Maybe not because windows problems keep me employed)

I will say that 7 is what Vista should have been. It is more responsive and runs much better on slow hardware. I do like how everything is in the control panel for the most part where it should be and the dock icons are smaller.
But IMO it still has nothing on Mac OS. Its just the same old drab windows underneath the gloss.

Vista was such an awful piece of trash if you tried to use it for anything other then internet, office work and some games. If your one of the users who need to do things like large data transfers, backups, anything involving disk imaging Vista was unusable. There are still some who try and defend Vista for whatever reason but I think Vista was a good wake-up call to Microsoft. There were a lot of people who hated Vista and a lot of people who tried other OS's because of it. Microsoft I think realized they aren't as invincible as they thought they were.


EDIT: I do think MS owes customers a much cheaper if not free upgrade to 7.

[Not Available]

Yes, I also run it through Boot Camp, and it's definitely smoother than XP, I was SHOCKED when my G11 keyboard was recognized & installed (drivers) automatically.

Although it has many improvements, it still lacks a lot of OS X's features, which I find crucial.

I might update an old computer to 7, I ran the advisor, and all I needed was some more RAM (I had 512 DDR-400, they said 1GB -- I got them, but I think I'll get 3GB after all).

[chrono1081]

Unless I skipped over it somewhere (which is a possibility please correct me if I am wrong)....


I still saw no multiple desktop support or ISO burning and mounting support :'( (A coworker said he saw burning but no mounting but I haven't found it).

[Not Available]

In fact, I'm posting this from Windows 7 (Boot Camp). One thing I like better is the scroll bars and buttons. In OS X, they're like crap, they look like 1699. But in Vista/7, they look amazingly modern.

One thing I don't like, though, is the trackpad. Gotta' configure it :)

[neiltc13]

Not really impressed. The changes they made are only skin-deep. Once you use it regularly, you notice the same problems Vista had.

Can you provide a list of these problems?

[Les Kern]

I'll be honest with you. I have Leopard and Windows 7 on my 13" MBP. But Windows 7 is just a big yawn to me. It's the same old Microsoft clutter, registry, apps spread all over the place. Sorry but I don't feel the excitment.

I feel even less impressed. While the first beta's were a bit impressive, MS started adding in the legacy code to make more things work and it slowly became bloatware that struggles JUST LIKE VISTA. I can imagine the GM now... and I see pain in the future. The only good thing I see so far is the fact my app runs on it... which counts for nothing.

[neiltc13]

I feel even less impressed. While the first beta's were a bit impressive, MS started adding in the legacy code to make more things work and it slowly became bloatware that struggles JUST LIKE VISTA. I can imagine the GM now... and I see pain in the future. The only good thing I see so far is the fact my app runs on it... which counts for nothing.

So you'd rather they went down the route that Apple did and cut out support for older applications as well as preventing people who bought computers in 2006 or before from using the software on their machine?

[MorphingDragon]

So you'd rather they went down the route that Apple did and cut out support for older applications as well as preventing people who bought computers in 2006 or before from using the software on their machine?

The should just resort to Classic Mode. Oh Wait... XP Mode. :rolleyes:

[womble2k2]

My girlfriend occasionally works from home, and her office use a remote access system that only works correctly on Internet Explorer. I have therefore installed Windows 7 RC on my MBP for her to have access to IE.

I've not used it much, but from what I've seen, MS is still miles away from an OS that comes close to OS X. It still isn't easy to navigate around, it still isn't intuative, it still is a mix of styles / methods to do similar tasks in different areas / applications / tools. It is still bloated, it is still resource hungry and it is still not as user friendly as OS X.

MS needs to raise its game. With Apple gaining market share, new OS's such as Google Chrome OS and more user friendly versions of Linux attacking Windows, it needs to be a lot slicker.

With multiple versions, all with standalone, upgrade and OEM builds, each with complicated pricing, it is a nightmare.

Some say MS is clever my allowing everyone to download the RC and make it work until June 2010 is clever, but I think they've taken a huge risk. Yes, please will gradually get used to it and will want their PC to continue to work post June 2010, but with high ticket values, it will surely lead people to either look for cheaper alternatives or obtaining ways of getting the OS for free (either torrent a full version or circumventing the RC 'end of life' system).

I can't wait to get Snow Leopard to get a 'better Leopard' and then see what Apple has in store next.

I guess what will come after SL will have tighter integration between MobileMe and iPhone (iPad?) OS X, as well as bringing new useful tools, streamlining workflows further and exploiting GCD / Open CL further to provide a slicker overall experience.

After Win 7, MS will be expecting PC's to have six core CPUs, 16 gigs of memory and a 1 TeraByte HD as standard to run it's successor!!

Phil

[bruinsrme]

Coming here asking if people are impressed with a Microsoft product like going into a Pepsi plant and asking the employees drink coke

[clevin]

I'm a Vista user. I use Vista periodically (though I mostly use Xp, when using Windows). And I think that Vista is awful. Pretty much everyone I know hates Vista. Most of them have just downgraded to Xp. I don't really care about Apple ads, I care about my experience.

The only time when Apple did user users as beta testers was in the beginning of OS X. (10.0-10.2). That's true. After that, every OS was a stable OS. $129 is a good price. So let's say that 129$ got wasted. Look at what Microsoft is asking for the Ultimate Edition.

lets be honest here, do you really think you can represent most vista users? with your vista using experiences?

10.0 itself is a 100% beta, never been fully patched. every version of OSX has 6 months of beta testing, when Leopard was out, it was filled with wifi dropping, etc, problems and took 6 months and 3 patches to fix.

You may say only a fraction people had problems, and they complained loudly, thats correct, but thats just as true as for Vista users.

[EmperorDarius]

lets be honest here, do you really think you can represent most vista users? with your vista using experiences?

Well, since I know a lot of Vista users personally, I think I can represent a big portion of Vista users. People who like Vista are usually gamers.

10.0 itself is a 100% beta, never been fully patched. every version of OSX has 6 months of beta testing, when Leopard was out, it was filled with wifi dropping, etc, problems and took 6 months and 3 patches to fix.

My serious issues have been patched with 10.5.1, but, let's supposed it's like you say. 6 months of beta testings for an OS that requires only a few FREE updates to get the issues fixed, or 2 years for an OS that requires a completely new, NOT FREE OS? Which sounds better?


You may say only a fraction people had problems, and they complained loudly, thats correct, but thats just as true as for Vista users.
I think the number of people who don' t like Vista is quite big. If you don't consider people who got a new computer with Vista and can't/don't know how to downgrade, you'll see that most of the people (again, except for heavy gamers) have not upgraded to Vista. Windows 7 is looking fine but Vista...I like to suppose it never existed.

[jgbhardy]

The one thing that is really annoying me is the new taskbar. I don't know if there is a way to turn this off, but I'm getting really annoyed with the preview thing it gives when you click on the program which means you then have to select the window, even if there is one window open in the program, through the preview thing. This is really annoying with msn also because it creates two preview things even though there is one window. :mad:

[clevin]

Well, since I know a lot of Vista users personally, I think I can represent a big portion of Vista users. People who like Vista are usually gamers.
Lets just say its very easy to generalize our own opinions, thats why there are research firms specialized in things
My serious issues have been patched with 10.5.1, but, let's supposed it's like you say. 6 months of beta testings for an OS that requires only a few FREE updates to get the issues fixed, or 2 years for an OS that requires a completely new, NOT FREE OS? Which sounds better?
you sure can't ignore the fact that during the lifetime of XP-Vista-7 (almost 10 years), there are 6 OSXs, thats total of 2 years beta testing, totally of 5 re installation of OSX in the time span, and $500. 7 update is $120, btw
I think the number of people who don' t like Vista is quite big. If you don't consider people who got a new computer with Vista and can't/don't know how to downgrade, you'll see that most of the people (again, except for heavy gamers) have not upgraded to Vista. Windows 7 is looking fine but Vista...I like to suppose it never existed.
the problem is here, in apple's RDF, every problem of MS is being exaggerated all the time, apple pushed out mac vs pc ads when Vista was out, to generate huge negative opinions of Vista. Does that necessarily mean real vista users mostly don't like it? I dont think so.

yeah, downgrade is a huge news in mac land too, but realistically, how many people downgraded their vista to xp? is there a number to show? Vista has 18% of market share right now, almost 4 times of OSX. failure? IDK, what do you think?

[MisterMe]

.... you sure can't ignore the fact that during the lifetime of XP-Vista-7 (almost 10 years), there are 6 OSXs, thats total of 2 years beta testing, totally of 5 re installation of OSX in the time span, and $500. 7 update is $120, btwHow quickly they forget! Before it hit the shelves, Win XP was host to the most dangerous computer viruses in the history of computing. XP's problems were so bad that Microsoft was forced to come up with the security through obscurity excuse for the fact that Macs had so few viruses. FWIW, Win98 still dominated the installed base, but much less susceptible to viruses, particularly in their severity.
the problem is here, in apple's RDF, every problem of MS is being exaggerated all the time, apple pushed out mac vs pc ads when Vista was out, to generate huge negative opinions of Vista. Does that necessarily mean real vista users mostly don't like it? I dont think so.It is not an exaggeration that my local computer store advertises the availability of XP so that its customers can avoid the pitfalls of Vista. Scream to the top of your lungs that Vista is fine. However, screaming will not make it so.
yeah, downgrade is a huge news in mac land too, but realistically, how many people downgraded their vista to xp? is there a number to show? Vista has 18% of market share right now, almost 4 times of OSX. failure? IDK, what do you think?I'm one who did it. I had to buy several Windows PCs for a dedicated task. I dared not risk the job to Vista. My vendor replaced Vista with XP at no charge.

[dejo]

the problem is here, in apple's RDF, every problem of MS is being exaggerated all the time, apple pushed out mac vs pc ads when Vista was out, to generate huge negative opinions of Vista.
First tech articles covering the woes of Vista (http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/12995/): June 2006

First "I'm a Mac. I'm a PC" ads that mention Vista: "Choose a Vista" and "Party is Over", released May 7, 2007.

Yup, it was Apple's RDF that caused Vista to get a bad name. ;)

[blackhand1001]

You guys tried it with the aero theme turn on? Does it still hog resources like mad..

Aero has never been any more of resource hog then quartz on Leopard. Heck Aero runs smoother on vista on Intel graphics than leopard's quartz gl does. And with windows 7 there is hardware acceleration for all types of windows, GDI, WPF, DirectX, which saves even more memory, something that mac doesn't have just yet.

[EmperorDarius]

Aero has never been any more of resource hog then quartz on Leopard. Heck Aero runs smoother on vista on Intel graphics than leopard's quartz gl does.

Not really, but even if it was the case at least Leopard DOES look good, Aero is awful.

[trekkie604]

Unless I skipped over it somewhere (which is a possibility please correct me if I am wrong)....


I still saw no multiple desktop support or ISO burning and mounting support :'( (A coworker said he saw burning but no mounting but I haven't found it).

No multiple desktop support, but ISO burning is part of my Ultimate edition...

[blackhand1001]

The one thing that is really annoying me is the new taskbar. I don't know if there is a way to turn this off, but I'm getting really annoyed with the preview thing it gives when you click on the program which means you then have to select the window, even if there is one window open in the program, through the preview thing. This is really annoying with msn also because it creates two preview things even though there is one window. :mad:

No, if theres only one window you can just click the icon.