What could the D400 have?

[cube]

I can't think of many new photo features the D400 could have. This is what I came up with:

- Fast contrast-detect AF, including during video recording
- global shutter
- Full HD at 24p, 25p and 30p

[wheelhot]

lol, the D300s just released and now its the D400 already? Well depending on the situation, it could be either improved image quality (I expect the D300s will have the same image quality as D90 and D5000, maybe slightly very slightly improvement).

So what I expect the D400 will be is improved video and with full manual control. There is a chance the D400 will be FF (depending on what Sony does within this couple of years). Other then that, nothing much I think.

The section where I prefer Nikon to put some effort now is in primes! They are soo old (well not that it is wrong, but it could get some updates) So far they have been focusing on the DX prime which is to me quite sad cause they could have made the 35mm as a FX glass instead of a DX glass and it will still give the same FOV.

And I can't believe they just updated the 18-200 DX, now that's a new glass. The 70-200 was kinda expected though, can't wait to see its review though :)

[cube]

lol, the D300s just released and now its the D400 already?

Actually, given that an "s" model seems to only be an interim thing, wondering whether it could be worthwhile to wait for a D400 would be the normal thing to do.

[cube]

Well...

D70s: 20 April 2005
D80: 9 August 2006

That would be quite a long wait


A bit better:

D40x: 6 March 2007
D60: 29 Jan 2008

[wheelhot]

Well here is my take.

If you are the owner of a D300, then D300s won't make a huge difference, a D700 will ;)

If you are the owner of a D90, well again D700 will make a huge difference but if you are not enough budget and want to get familiarize with the D700 interface or would want better ergonomics, then the D300s could be it.

Now if you are an owner of a D40/D60/D5000, then a D300s will be a huge improvement.

As for me, since I am switching over from Canon to Nikon, I will likely be going for the D300s, if the D300 price is around the same.

So for D300 owners, for me its either you go FF or wait for D400 and hopefully it will be much improved image quality or it might be just be a FF :D

[cube]

Yes, for me besides newcomers and usual level upgraders, the D300s is for real video people with D300's or people who wanted the D300 but got the D90 because of the video.

[cube]

wait for D400 and hopefully it will be much improved image quality or it might be just be a FF :D

It won't be FF, otherwise that's the name they would have used for the D700.

[wheelhot]

It won't be FF, otherwise that's the name they would have used for the D700.

I know that but I mean, a cheaper FF in the form of D400. Cause it all depends on what Sony does. If Sony releases a FF that is around the price of D300s (possible cause they want the market share). Expect Canon to release something similar and Nikon will likely force to use FF in D400 if they expect to compete with the other manufactures, also since Nikon uses sensor manufactured by Sony, this is a huge possibility indeed :D

[compuwar]

There is a chance the D400 will be FF (depending on what Sony does within this couple of years). Other then that, nothing much I think.


What Sony does has little to no bearing on Nikon's pro and prosumer camera lines.


The section where I prefer Nikon to put some effort now is in primes! They are soo old (well not that it is wrong, but it could get some updates) So far they have been focusing on the DX prime which is to me quite sad cause they could have made the 35mm as a FX glass instead of a DX glass and it will still give the same FOV.


Many of the new pro zooms outperform older primes at the same FL, so I don't think there's as much of a feeling of necessity there. For instance, the 14-24 sounds like it outperforms the 14mm, 20mm and 24mm primes, the 17-35mm outperforms the 20mm and probably the 35mm primes- or at least comes close. The 24-70 is a little worse than the 35mm prime, but probably not enough to notice in most prints. We've had updated 50mm, 60mm, and 105mm lenses.


And I can't believe they just updated the 18-200 DX, now that's a new glass. The 70-200 was kinda expected though, can't wait to see its review though :)

The 18-200 is one of Nikon's best-selling lenses and zoom creep its biggest complaint. It was a good move.

[wheelhot]

What Sony does has little to no bearing on Nikon's pro and prosumer camera lines.

Well yeah, but don't tell me that Nikon and Canon will let Sony have a free ride on <$2000 FF body. Sony A850 (http://www.shinkadesign.com/photoposts/a850manual.pdf) (rumored to be <$2000)

Many of the new pro zooms outperform older primes at the same FL, so I don't think there's as much of a feeling of necessity there. For instance, the 14-24 sounds like it outperforms the 14mm, 20mm and 24mm primes, the 17-35mm outperforms the 20mm and probably the 35mm primes- or at least comes close. The 24-70 is a little worse than the 35mm prime, but probably not enough to notice in most prints. We've had updated 50mm, 60mm, and 105mm lenses.

Yeah, you got the point. Unless Nikon is prepping to release f/1.4 primes?

The 18-200 is one of Nikon's best-selling lenses and zoom creep its biggest complaint. It was a good move.

Well yeah, but they still have other lenses to improve right? and right now, Nikon 18-200 is the best APS-C superzoom so far.

[cube]

One photo thing they could add would be geometric correction, for ready-made JPEGs without DxO.

[mag2001]

One question does the New D300s auto focus on movie mode? I would upgrade my D90 if that was the case!

[cube]

One can use contrast-detection AF while in movie mode, but I don't know what that means in practice.

[compuwar]

Well yeah, but don't tell me that Nikon and Canon will let Sony have a free ride on <$2000 FF body. Sony A850 (http://www.shinkadesign.com/photoposts/a850manual.pdf) (rumored to be <$2000)


We've seen what happens with pricing rumors- and frankly Sony *has* to compete on price because they don't have the share or lens line of Canon or Nikon- even $2000 isn't a general consumer item, and Canon and Nikon may stick to the "get 'em at the low end and grow 'em" strategy- out of the three, only Nikon's making profits with digital cameras at the moment, so it's really difficult to predict what would make a pricing war break out- Sony can't afford to keep losing money- and Alpha didn't even get a single mention in the last annual report.



Yeah, you got the point. Unless Nikon is prepping to release f/1.4 primes?


We should see one more kit and at least 2-3 more releases this year, it's difficult to say what they'll be though- but I expect the 80-400 to be one of them.


Well yeah, but they still have other lenses to improve right? and right now, Nikon 18-200 is the best APS-C superzoom so far.

The economy sucks, the Yen is too strong- updating a zoom ring on a line that's chunking them out is much smarter than tooling up a whole line on a lens that may not sell well.

[Kebabselector]

out of the three, only Nikon's making profits with digital cameras at the moment

Really? Do you have proof?

[ksz]

I can't think of many new photo features the D400 could have. This is what I came up with:

- Fast contrast-detect AF, including during video recording
- global shutter
- Full HD at 24p, 25p and 30p
On the topic of video, I would like to see continuous video shooting up to the maximum file size rather than 5 minutes. In fact, it's about time we break with FAT32 and its 4GB file size limit.

I would also like to see built-in GPS receivers not only on mid- and high-end DSLRs, but also on mid- and high-end compact digicams, particularly those that are geared for travel.

[compuwar]

Really? Do you have proof?

Profits are the wrong word- growing business is what I should have said- Nikon's net sales were up 1.8%, while Canon's sales declined by 9.6%. Sony's non-DSLR business declined by 6%, Camcorders by 19% (ouch!) easily outstripping the gains in Alpha sales for the fiscal year ended March 2009.

[sl1200mk2]

What Sony does has little to no bearing on Nikon's pro and prosumer camera lines.

I realize you're probably referring to what Sony does with it's own camera line and not their chip business, but since (I believe) Sony makes all of Nikon's sensors what they do certainly could definitely impact the decision making at Nikon and pretty much everyone else who uses them. It'd be foolish to think their camera business drives their fabrication business (totally the other way around), but I would think if Sony was able to reduce the pricing of full frame sensors within a couple years that should directly play into either a less expensive D700 variant or something else lower in the line.

Personally, unless the price *really* came down, I have no interest in full frame. A D300s caliber camera is more than enough for me (far more camera than talent).

Just a thought..

[Cliff3]

I realize you're probably referring to what Sony does with it's own camera line and not their chip business, but since (I believe) Sony makes all of Nikon's sensors what they do certainly could definitely impact the decision making at Nikon and pretty much everyone else who uses them..

Nikon leases fab space from Sony, and some of their sensors are based on Sony designs, but by and large, Nikon's sensor designs are proprietary.

edit: Nikon will be releasing their financial results tomorrow.

[sl1200mk2]

Nikon leases fab space from Sony, and some of their sensors are based on Sony designs, but by and large, Nikon's sensor designs are proprietary.

Didn't realize they went that far. I was under the impression that Nikon used a Sony sensor with a custom firmware and additional image processing. I thought Canon was the only big enough player to do their own sensors and pretty much everyone else used Sony.

Good to know!

[compuwar]

Nikon leases fab space from Sony, and some of their sensors are based on Sony designs, but by and large, Nikon's sensor designs are proprietary.

edit: Nikon will be releasing their financial results tomorrow.

Actually, while some Nikon sensors are fabricated by Sony it's not at all clear they all are. I read some recent conjecture about a completely different fab plant for the D700 sensor. Nikon describes the Sony sensor development as collaboration, not just a "go build me one of these!"

[Cliff3]

Actually, while some Nikon sensors are fabricated by Sony it's not at all clear they all are. I read some recent conjecture about a completely different fab plant for the D700 sensor. Nikon describes the Sony sensor development as collaboration, not just a "go build me one of these!"

I didn't say that Sony did Nikon's fabrication. I said that Nikon leased fab facilities from Sony. And Sony leases steppers from Nikon. Japan's businesses are tightly intertwined.

[compuwar]

I didn't say that Sony did Nikon's fabrication. I said that Nikon leased fab facilities from Sony. And Sony leases steppers from Nikon. Japan's businesses are tightly intertwined.

My points are that Sony isn't likely to be the only fab source and that lots of sensor design isn't completely proprietary to Nikon.

[TheStrudel]

Good old John Zaibatsu at work there.

Wheelhot, what prompted your switch, if I can ask?

[wheelhot]

Yeah, the economy is changing things :( And yup, upgrading their best selling zoom lens will like sort of guarantee sales (as long as their updated lens lives up to expectations) :)

Oh regarding the AF in movie mode, it is still not certain how fast is the AF since it is based on contrast detect. So ppl expect the performance to be similar to AF contrast detect Live View mode and the last I check, contrast detect live view isn't fast.

Wheelhot, what prompted your switch, if I can ask?

Ah alright, well currently I own a 1000D which is a great camera body by the way but why I am switching is cause I just can't stand the ergonomic (button layout to be more precise) of the 40D/50D/5D/5D Mark II, I felt that the main control dial just felt all weird and place wrongly. In fact, I actually used my friends D700 and another friend 5D before during 2 separate events and the D700 without battery grip felt much better to hold not to mention sturdier and use then the 5D with batter grip, weight wasn't a problem though, the button placement was (the D700 was mounted with a 80-200 f/2.8 while the 5D heaviest lens I think was the 24-105 f/4).

Besides, I only own 50mm f/1.8 and 100mm f/2.8 and 18-55 and 580EXII, so the cost of me switching wouldn't make me lose as much money as those who invested on L lenses, heck, I will still keep my 1000D w/ 100mm f/2.8 for macro uses and sell off my 580EXII (not sure how much the price I can get if I sell 50mm f/1.8 since it's cheap enough bought new already).

[Kebabselector]

Profits are the wrong word- growing business is what I should have said- Nikon's net sales were up 1.8%, while Canon's sales declined by 9.6%. Sony's non-DSLR business declined by 6%, Camcorders by 19% (ouch!) easily outstripping the gains in Alpha sales for the fiscal year ended March 2009.

I see, it's fairly clear that Nikon are world beaters here (http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Nikon_forecasts_28_billion_yen_loss_news_287402.html).

(No doubt Canon/Sony et al will post similar predictions later)

[compuwar]

I see, it's fairly clear that Nikon are world beaters here (http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Nikon_forecasts_28_billion_yen_loss_news_287402.html).

(No doubt Canon/Sony et al will post similar predictions later)

Yes, they are- notice that the imaging business is already predicted to have bottomed out (and it grew last year- so that's the worst camera sales growth they expect to see.) Nikon Imaging is their camera business, while Canon's Imaging Division is their stepper business. Also note that for Q1 they've already posted a profit- while Sony's posted a loss of 25.7 Billion Yen for the quarter. Canon's camera sales are down 20% for the quarter. So, in terms of camera sales, yes Nikon actually are world beaters so far, and their predictions are that they'll do more positive growth in that segment.

[compuwar]

I realize you're probably referring to what Sony does with it's own camera line and not their chip business, but since (I believe) Sony makes all of Nikon's sensors what they do certainly could definitely impact the decision making at Nikon and pretty much everyone


While Sony does make some Nikon sensors (the D2x and D300/D90 sensors come immediately to mind, it is not clear that they make all of them.

I finally found the article that I saw the other day with interesting conjecture about the D3/D700 sensor:

http://www.chipworks.com/blogs.aspx?id=4626&blogid=86%29,

The foundry for the Nikon D3 sensor is an interesting sidebar topic. Nikon have announced that they designed the sensor. Nikon has no wafer fabrication capability so they outsource the sensor production, but they are keeping the foundry close to their chests, so close that we must speculate to identify the source.

May08 DSLR Blog 5
Die Markings on the image sensor found in the Nikon D3 DSLR

The obvious choice would be Sony, who build the sensor used in the Nikon D2X, however there are no Sony markings on the device, and the device structure is markedly different from the other Sony CIS we have analyzed. We considered Matsushita/Panasonic the device structure has similarities to the Panasonic CIS we have seen, but it is sufficiently different that we have doubts that it is theirs. Thus we are speculating who else could be the manufacturing source. I believe Nikon would stick with a Japanese foundry. An interesting possibility is Renesas, they have close ties with Nikon, supplying several imager processor chipsets, they have a patent portfolio in image sensors indicating they have active r+d in this field, and they have the fab capabilities. If indeed they are the foundry source for the D3, it makes them an interesting new entrant into the CIS manufacturing world.