WWDC: New LCD Displays

[MacRumors]

Apple released new Displays today... ending a long wait.

The new screens sport a new adjustable aluminum case design as depicted by ThinkSecret's artist renditions (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040608214257.shtml). Meanwhile, last minute notes (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040627234342.shtml) about pricing proved to be correct with the new designs coming in at the following prices:

30" - $3299.00
23" - $1999.00
20" - $1299.00

The new displays offer a single unified cable coming from the monitors which then split into DVI, USB 2.0, Firewire 400 and Power connectors.

Apple Store (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fclick.linksynergy.com%2Ffs-bin%2Fclick%3Fid%3D9eASk0x48lo%26subid%3D1%26offerid%3D13301.1%26type%3D10%26tmpid%3D80%26RD_PARM1%3 Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.apple.com%252Feducation%252Fk12%252Filifeandkeynote%252F%26u1%3Dmacrumors) has the updated monitors for sale.

[Ajmbc]

Apple released new Displays today... ending a long wait.

The new screens sport a new adjustable aluminum case design as depicted by ThinkSecret's artist renditions (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040608214257.shtml). Meanwhile, last minute notes (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040627234342.shtml) about pricing proved to be correct with the new designs coming in at the following prices:

30" - $3299.00
23" - $1999.00
20" - $1299.00

The new displays offer a single unified cable coming from the monitors which then split into DVI, USB 2.0, Firewire 400 and Power connectors.

Apple Store (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fclick.linksynergy.com%2Ffs-bin%2Fclick%3Fid%3D9eASk0x48lo%26subid%3D1%26offerid%3D13301.1%26type%3D10%26tmpid%3D80%26RD_PARM1%3 Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.apple.com%252Feducation%252Fk12%252Filifeandkeynote%252F%26u1%3Dmacrumors) has the updated monitors for sale.

They're cool monitors- and a plus- the 17 incher is only 699 now. Its good that they match the powerbook and powermac.

Ajmbc

[BakedBeans]

i think they dont look very nice at all.... the look dare i say it... dell-ish

[Laslo Panaflex]

Wow, it was hard for me to justify the price of my 23 incher, now, WOW a 30" model, plus the 600 for the video card, I wish I could afford it . . .

[QCassidy352]

They're cool monitors- and a plus- the 17 incher is only 699 now. Its good that they match the powerbook and powermac.

Ajmbc

I believe the 17"er was always $699...

Well, I had hoped for the lower pricing reported earlier, but I'll get a new 20" anyway. Any word on when they will be available?

[macridah]

The new monitors cost too much. It seems like a no brainer to pay and extra 300 bucks to upgrade from a 23 to 30, but the cost of the required graphics card is crazy.

I think there needs to be a price cut, soon.

[macridah]

I believe the 17"er was always $699...

Well, I had hoped for the lower pricing reported earlier, but I'll get a new 20" anyway. Any word on when they will be available?

The apple store said it would be delivered in 2-4 weeks.

[Tassilo]

I've been waiting for those for quite a while now. Seeing 'em revealed now, I'm not actually stunned. I prefer the old look, can't use the 30" on my G4, the resolution of the 23" is still the same. But what about the other specs? Has anyone still got the old specs? I'd love to see a comparison. I wonder if I should try to get one of the old 23" for a reasonably low price from a local reseller - like about 1500 Euros (compared to 2200 for the new one). How much better are the new displays, espescially the 23" HD?

[javabear90]

Apple released new Displays today... ending a long wait.

The new screens sport a new adjustable aluminum case design as depicted by ThinkSecret's artist renditions (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040608214257.shtml). Meanwhile, last minute notes (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040627234342.shtml) about pricing proved to be correct with the new designs coming in at the following prices:

30" - $3299.00
23" - $1999.00
20" - $1299.00

The new displays offer a single unified cable coming from the monitors which then split into DVI, USB 2.0, Firewire 400 and Power connectors.

Apple Store (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fclick.linksynergy.com%2Ffs-bin%2Fclick%3Fid%3D9eASk0x48lo%26subid%3D1%26offerid%3D13301.1%26type%3D10%26tmpid%3D80%26RD_PARM1%3 Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.apple.com%252Feducation%252Fk12%252Filifeandkeynote%252F%26u1%3Dmacrumors) has the updated monitors for sale.

thats awesome..... but how do you hook up 2 23 inchers to a radeon 9800 XT if it has i dvi and 1 adc???

[Capt Underpants]

I was really hoping for a $999 entry level 20" monitor, but I guess you can't have everything. I figured they would go with the one cable splitting into a FW, USB, Power, and Video. It's a very good solution to the clutter problem. I just wish Apple sold some aluminum speakers that sat on the side of the monitors. That would be kick A$$.

[Capt Underpants]

thats awesome..... but how do you hook up 2 23 inchers to a radeon 9800 XT if it has i dvi and 1 adc???

Are there ADC to DVI adapters? If so, then that is one way.

[Sabenth]

Rip off Typical of apple fancy wancy displays oh so great just like this post

[Veldek]

thats awesome..... but how do you hook up 2 23 inchers to a radeon 9800 XT if it has i dvi and 1 adc???

By using a DVI to ADC adapter.

[jxyama]

I think there needs to be a price cut, soon.

right, they were introduced a few hours ago and you are already talking about a price cut. :rolleyes:

[macridah]

i think they dont look very nice at all.... the look dare i say it... dell-ish

They look better in person.

[wordmunger]

Well, at least you can get the 6800 ultra DDL as a $450 BTO option with a new G5. So actually your $3900 monitor/card combo will only run you $3750 (plus the cost of your new Mac). :rolleyes:

[carbonmotion]

I hate to be the first one to say this but the new displays, while looking good, are a bad value. The 20 inch in no longer HD for the same price as the old HD displays. The resolution remains the same, with no optional higer-end res. While the 30-in is well and good, it would be alot better for the consumer market if they also added a 17-wide Cinema HD display. Since noone has had any experience with the LCDs yet, I'm going to expect them to perform on par with their rivals if not better. The new look is decidedly Dellish, neutral and understated ...neither good nor bad. Overall aside form the WOW-me 30inch display this update of the apple displays is a complete dissappointment. C'mon stevie, you used to wow me with your imacs and powermacs, what happened?!

[hotwire132002]

They rule. I just wish I could afford them! :rolleyes:

Old 17" it is... I wish they'd redone that one too... I like to aluminum look.

[Freg3000]

The 20 inch does have better specs than before, but please, no price drop is ridiculous. Although I love the slogan:

Awesome now comes in three sizes.

God I love Apple's marketers. :D

[SuperChuck]

Let me get this straight...if I want to use two of the new displays with my G5, I need to buy a freaking adapter? If Apple is ditching the proprietary ADC, why the heck is their cutting edge machine still saddled with an ADC card?

Dual DVI cards should at least be a BTO. Gimme a break.

[Capt Underpants]

The new monitors cost too much. It seems like a no brainer to pay and extra 300 bucks to upgrade from a 23 to 30, but the cost of the required graphics card is crazy.

I think there needs to be a price cut, soon.

Um... isn't it an extra 1,300 bucks for the 30 incher? That's a large chunk of change, and it definitely isn't a no brainer.

[3-22]

I was afraid the new monitors would make my 20" cinema looked dated. So far, I like the old style more. Maybe in person they will look a lot better. I know the PowerMac G5 doesn't photograph well either. No price break either...

[Zargot]

Developer price for 23" raised $200 !!

[QCassidy352]

resolution is the same as on the old models, but contrast ratio and brightness are both higher. They also added the firewire ports, a very cool addition, IMO.

I wish they were available now though. :(

[ipacmm]

I hate to be the first one to say this but the new displays, while looking good, are a bad value. The 20 inch in no longer HD for the same price as the old HD displays.


The 20" was never HD it was just the 23"

[slipper]

the reason the apple displays are so expensive is because it caters to the high end G5 market. however, now that the new displays use a DVI connector i find it disappointing that they dont make a 17" model.

[nsb3000]

Apple released new Displays today... ending a long wait.

The new screens sport a new adjustable aluminum case design as depicted by ThinkSecret's artist renditions (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040608214257.shtml). Meanwhile, last minute notes (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040627234342.shtml) about pricing proved to be correct with the new designs coming in at the following prices:

30" - $3299.00
23" - $1999.00
20" - $1299.00

The new displays offer a single unified cable coming from the monitors which then split into DVI, USB 2.0, Firewire 400 and Power connectors.

Apple Store (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fclick.linksynergy.com%2Ffs-bin%2Fclick%3Fid%3D9eASk0x48lo%26subid%3D1%26offerid%3D13301.1%26type%3D10%26tmpid%3D80%26RD_PARM1%3 Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.apple.com%252Feducation%252Fk12%252Filifeandkeynote%252F%26u1%3Dmacrumors) has the updated monitors for sale.

They look cool, but I will not be buying one anytime soon...

[g4cubed]

I can't believe the prices. :mad:
I guess I will buy a Sony or Viewsonic monitor before I will pay those prices plus the damn video card. To bad I was looking forward to a new Apple monitor. And besides I'm not that impressed with the look. :(

[xtekdiver]

Where the heck is the keyboard and mouse to match! :mad:

[DrGruv1]

anyone?

[Soire]

I need help...

I just bought a 20" to go along with the 2.5 G5 on the way... I must control... buying...


ps- I also bought a 40 gig iPod, and why in the name of god did the developer discount go down??? I could have bought a 40 giger yesterday for $400 and now they're $450. What gives?!?!? :mad:

[PPC970FX]

16ms? And i think that the speks are better, but I can`t find the specs. nits, 450:1? Where can I find specs?? :confused:

[nexusfx]

The old Contrast was 350:1 and on the 20" for brightness 230 and the others 200. A signifigant improvement from the old Displays

FINALLY a high end graphics card, even though I like the x800 a little better, very happy they have the 6800 Ultra Now

Figured as much on the price, no complaints, I love iit all, just wish I had the money to buy it.

[discstickers]

I need help...

I just bought a 20" to go along with the 2.5 G5 on the way... I must control... buying...


ps- I also bought a 40 gig iPod, and why in the name of god did the developer discount go down??? I could have bought a 40 giger yesterday for $400 and now they're $450. What gives?!?!? :mad:

I think the developer pricing is just in limbo right now... They're at the same prices in the .edu store. Except for the old 17", it's 629 at the dev store while 599 at the .edu one. :confused:

[amols]

What did they change? Just the outer casing? Does that justify maintaining the same cost for over 18 months ??

[blackcrayon]

Are these displays HDCP compliant? I didn't see anything on Apple's site specifying that they were... Which kinda sux... I wanted to be able to use one as an HD display at some point... (Some of the competing LCD displays have component video and svideo inputs... Of course that's not Apple's style...)

[Downdivx]

Or maybe if you could find a reseller who would pre-date the invoice to saturday you could also get the $500 rebate....

Might be a good way for the reseller to get rid of old stock also.

Whitaker

[Tremaine]

I can't believe the prices. :mad:
I guess I will buy a Sony or Viewsonic monitor before I will pay those prices plus the damn video card. To bad I was looking forward to a new Apple monitor. And besides I'm not that impressed with the look. :(


I fully agree. Viewsonic, here I come! Way too much premium to pay so that the design matchs my G5 which sits under my desk...

[Zargot]

ps- I also bought a 40 gig iPod, and why in the name of god did the developer discount go down??? I could have bought a 40 giger yesterday for $400 and now they're $450. What gives?!?!?

Looks like they also raised the price of the 20" iMac for developers.... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the base price before today was approx. $1,799 US; now it's $1,979. ! :confused:

[Capt Underpants]

16ms? And i think that the speks are better, but I can`t find the specs. nits, 450:1? Where can I find specs?? :confused:

Go to www.apple.com/displays and click on tech specs. It isn't that hard to find....

[Skiniftz]

Right now, I am SO glad I bought my 2 x 17" Ilyama panels. The new displays look great, however there is no way I could justify spending stupid amounts of money on them.

Well I suppose at long last the waiting is finally over.

Apple, you owe me 6 months of my life back. I so wish I'd just bought a dual 2GHz back in January.

[Thom_Edwards]

has no one else noticed that you can hang these monitors on a wall?

[psycho bob]

Apple state you can run 2 230 inch panels off a nvidia 6800 but if one needs dual connections how do you hook up the other?
Or have a miss understood the dual aspect

[benpatient]

congrats to apple....it is now once again possible to spend over 15,000 dollars on a single workstation without buying any "accessory" upgrades.

strictly speaking,

dual G5 2.5
load the RAM
dual 30" monitors (along w/obligatory gfx card upgrade)
dual 250gig HDDs

I didn't even have to add a fibre-channel card to get it over 15K.

amazing.

i wonder how clocked-down the 6800 is going to be?

[amols]

:mad: :mad: :mad: Expression is worth thousand words.

[benpatient]

and another thing....i find it VERY hard to believe that all three of these monitors have the same response time.

Call me a pessimist, but I bet the 30" will have that spec revised in the near future...

[javabear90]

has no one else noticed that you can hang these monitors on a wall?

thats pretty cool, But i dunno if I should get a new or old display?

[joemama]

I can't believe the prices. :mad:
I guess I will buy a Sony or Viewsonic monitor before I will pay those prices plus the damn video card. To bad I was looking forward to a new Apple monitor. And besides I'm not that impressed with the look. :(

This is such a joke! Apple should be ashamed of themselves. They will understand when they see the sales of the OLD 17" skyrocket. A lot of people, like me, where waiting to buy until the new specs are out. I will now buy the old one. and save 500 bucks or so.

tsk tsk...

[denm316]

So if I want to hook up 2 new displays to my NEW G5 I have to buy an ADC adapter, give me a break.

From now on when I go to the Apple store in the mall I expect the employees to be wearing masks, because they are robbing me when they are taking my money.

[bertagert]

For all the bad that people are seeing with the new displays, there are some good notes.

1. You can now mount with any type of arm to the displys which is oh so cool. Tilt, adjust...anything you want.

2. DVI is the way to go. Now you can hook one to a PC.

3. Someone might make an adaptor with graphics card so you can go powerbook --> adaptor w/card --> 30" of pure love.

The only thing I see as a little confusing is having the usb and firewire on the back of the screen. This could be a little tricky to get to. That is unless you get a new mounting arm that swings the screen around.

[iloveMac]

I was slobbering as I was reading the new specs on the 30" cinema display. I did notice one thing though. The new Dual DVI graphics card caught everyone in this forum by surprise. Not one person mention the new card. Apple done it to us again. :)

[Veldek]

Let me get this straight...if I want to use two of the new displays with my G5, I need to buy a freaking adapter? If Apple is ditching the proprietary ADC, why the heck is their cutting edge machine still saddled with an ADC card?

Dual DVI cards should at least be a BTO. Gimme a break.

Well, the 6800 is a dual DVI card available as BTO.

[QCassidy352]

congrats to apple....it is now once again possible to spend over 15,000 dollars on a single workstation without buying any "accessory" upgrades.

strictly speaking,

dual G5 2.5
load the RAM
dual 30" monitors (along w/obligatory gfx card upgrade)
dual 250gig HDDs

I didn't even have to add a fibre-channel card to get it over 15K.

amazing.

i wonder how clocked-down the 6800 is going to be?

and that machine would be a very high end work station for very serious professionals.

Some companies' websites have different links when you go in: like "home," "education," and "professional." Then, when you go in, you only see the products that are intended or that market.

Apple isn't so patronizing that they assume people can't tell the difference - but the complaints on this board are making it clear that they have overestimated their average consumer.

Apple does not expect a home user to spend $7000 on a computer + display. These are high end items for real professional users with professional budgets who actually need this level of power and performance, and it's a very good thing that Apple offers these high end options for those who need them.

[mikefl420]

What did they change? Just the outer casing? Does that justify maintaining the same cost for over 18 months ??

Well, Apple increased the Contrast Ratio and Brightness considerably, added two FireWire ports in addition to the existing USB ports, gave us the ability to adjust the tilt of the screen, and switched the industry standard DVI. Factor in the rising price of aluminum and inflation and the price seems fair to me. Hell, we're lucky they didn't raise the price.

As far as the comments I've seen concerning the price of the Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra, the price seems consistent with that of the PC version of the card which I have found to be around $499. I'm just happy we're not a step behind anymore.

Well, begin the rumor mill... Only 365 days til WWDC 2005! :D

[sfwalter]

2-4 weeks delay :mad:

[DrGruv1]

OLD 350 to 1 contrast
NEW 400 to 1 contrast

OLD Brightness 230
NEW Brightness 250

Price = the same????

Really should be $999 for these

The new Sony 19" SDM-S94 is silver, 600 to 1 Contrast, 250 brightness and is $725

Thats a $550+ Difference!!!! I'm a mac fan BUT! Damn :mad:

[AidenShaw]

The Apple pages say that the video card won't be available until August.

Add the card and monitor to a 2.0GHz dualie, and the ship date changes from "Next day" to "August" !

[snahabed]

So the 17" old-style Display seems to only be available in the education store.

They don't think ANYONE with a G5 will want a smaller and/or relatively low-cost option??

I guess it is time to start finding out who makes the best third-party displays, especially if they are aluminum style. Formacs are G4 styled, but nice. Who else?

[Savage Henry]

If my near-future needs are of such that a powermac is required, then I would not think twice about these beauties. And the tech level is pretty hot as well.

But I can see why the Stevenote wasn't broadcast. New screens and a small cuddly Tiger does not make rock and roll.

Share-price since 10am - dropped a buck......... :(

[PieMac]

Any body know of any mention of price reductions for the old model 20" and 23" displays? Surely they'll reduce the prices on them to clear them out...?

[blorp]

Well, I won't be buying a display from Apple. 20" for $1799 CAD is outrageous. It took 18 months for this? I am not impressed.

[the future]

I completely, absolutely, unconditionally LOVE the new design. I cannot even begin to imagine how sleek and gorgeous they will look "in person" in all their huge, yet fragile, aluminum glory. We totally need a dreamy-eyed emoticon, Arn. Or at least a drooling one.

Boo for no price cuts, of course. And for neither having a new 17" nor dropping the price of the old one which looks very odd now on the Apple Store pages and is actually by far the most overpriced of all models.

What is really, really, really cool is that with that 6800 card you can actually connect 2 (two) 30" displays to a G5. Not that I could afford a setup like that, but one can dream/drool (even without the appropriate emoticon). :o

[bertagert]

So the 17" old-style Display seems to only be available in the education store.
Actually its right below the other 3 displays in the reg store for $699. A little confusing but its there.

[nyprospect]

It's to pricey.how about us poor folk :) .i guess i have to stick with my pc and just buy a samsung lcd they look the same.

[cr2sh]

I'm stunned... but not by the displays, by the response of you babies.

80% of the posts in this thread amount to nothing more than "boo... I can't afford that." Guess what, this is bleeding edge.. if you don't like it take a step backwards.

Since when is $7k for the fastest machine and nicest monitor complaint worthy? This isn't pre-school, kiddies.

:rolleyes:

[Photorun]

Ugh! What a waste. Yes, they look really awesome and yes, the pricing is just a little ridiculous. There's a bevy of 20 inch monitors with just as good if not better specs, also DVI, hitting the $1000 mark (at least on Buy.com) with names like Sony, Samsung, etc. Though Cinema Display is cool the other 20 inchers also give you more screen real estate, what with them being 1600 X 1200 as opposed to 1080 or whatever.

Jobs lives in rich land, I suppose if I made $68 MILLION(!) last year as he did these monitors are the change you find in the couch, however, most people cannot afford these monitors. And the 17 inch using 2001 technology costing TWICE AS MUCH (no people, the price is the same, stupid high ridiculous same, as effer) as other current 17 offerings, those offerings with twice the contrast and brightness, I mean, Jobs/Apple's heads are so far up their arses on this it's just unbelievable... what planet are they from?

[Cooknn]

I fully agree. Viewsonic, here I come! Way too much premium to pay so that the design matchs my G5 which sits under my desk...Pricing for the Viewsonic 23" LCD is over $2200 on Best Buy. It has integrated speakers (yuck) and only does 1600x1200. The Sony 23" Widescreen LCD does 1920x1200 but is over $2200 as well. $1999 for the Apple 23" is actually very competitive.

[proglife]

These look great....















...for me to poop on. I'll stick with my Formac 19" for sure.

[nsb3000]

3. Someone might make an adaptor with graphics card so you can go powerbook --> adaptor w/card --> 30" of pure love.



I would expect Apple to introduct this at somepoint...

[nsb3000]

Since when is $7k for the fastest machine and nicest monitor complaint worthy? This isn't pre-school, kiddies.

:rolleyes:

Becasue this is not the 1980s. (Remeber the 10k Lisa?) Macs should be cheaper than they are...

[Moonlight]

God I love Apple's marketers. :D

you mean TBWA Chiat/Day...

[blorp]

Since when is $7k for the fastest machine and nicest monitor complaint worthy? This isn't pre-school, kiddies.

This is real life, buddy. A normal, sane person would not drop down $9000 (CAD) for a computer and moniter.

:rolleyes:

[seamuskrat]

I think the Tiger looks like a fantastic update, considering. The monitor lineup looks very nie as well. Spec for spec they hold up better or the same to the competition, although they carry the Apple cost premium. That said, the problem if you need a Prosumer solution. Say, at a university, where you need a PCI slot for a data capture card, ut you do not need the horsepower of a G5. Basically, if you have a solution that requires additional internal drives, and PCI needs, you must spend a minimum of 3300 for an All Apple solution. (Yes, i know the old 17 is still available for now). Apple truly needs to have either a G4 tower again with PCI so I can add the 699 17 inch and have a nice ~2200 solution ormanage to get a betetr price point for the monitor lineup.
If I were to get a top of the line iMac it would cost me 2200.00. That gets me
• 256MB DDR333 SDRAM - 1 DIMM
• 80GB Ultra ATA drive
• Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English
• 20-inch flat-panel LCD
• 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
• 4x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
• NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
• Apple Pro Speakers
If I needed the entry Pro line it would be a G5 1.8 dual and 20 inch display for $3300.00 and the following:
Dual 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
• 256MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x128
• 80GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra w/64MB DDR SDRAM
• Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel)
• 56k V.92 internal modem
• 8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
So, for my 1100.00 Iget the same Ram, same drive, slightly better video, dual 1.8 instead of single 1.25 CPU and faster superdrive. I also get the much needed expandability and PCI slots. The problem is that the 3300.00 is a high price to pay for simple features. I get a lot more for that 1100.00 but if my baseline need was the eMac or the 1799 17 inch iMac, then its a huge differential to get the PCI slot.

Its too bad no one (that i know of) has come up with a PCI to FW bridge. Sell me an external box with 3 PCI slots that will run over firewire. I suspect at the bandwidth of FW 800 it would work.

But for those of us in markets where cost does matter and have specific requirements for features like internal drive expansion and PCI, and expanded video, then we are forced to look at non Apple solitions.

[edesignuk]

Let me just say this first. The new 30" display is, of course, awesome, there is no other way to describe it. I'd absolutely love one...but...

IMO the new look is very ugly. Yes, they have a nice slim bezel, but they just look so dull/dell :eek:

Now, $3300+$600+G5 PowerMac. Hmmmm....there's something wrong with this picture. Who, exactly, will be able to afford this? Sure, there may be some design studios interested, but I would imagine that'd be about it. It makes far more sense to go with 2 x 23" ($4000) than one 30" ($3900 inc. video card).

Where is something that would without doubt sell very well, a 17" wide screen!?

So yeah, the 30" is amazing (though still ugly), but I still struggle to understand Apple's thinking...

[zoozx]

Ridiculous pricing.
I'm use to getting gouged by apple but these new monitor prices are just ridiculous.
Come on steve, how many helicopters do you need?
:eek:

[crees!]

I hate to be the first one to say this but the new displays, while looking good, are a bad value. The 20 inch in no longer HD for the same price as the old HD displays. The resolution remains the same, with no optional higer-end res. While the 30-in is well and good, it would be alot better for the consumer market if they also added a 17-wide Cinema HD display. Since noone has had any experience with the LCDs yet, I'm going to expect them to perform on par with their rivals if not better. The new look is decidedly Dellish, neutral and understated ...neither good nor bad. Overall aside form the WOW-me 30inch display this update of the apple displays is a complete dissappointment. C'mon stevie, you used to wow me with your imacs and powermacs, what happened?!

I can not believe some of you people with comments as such. Now that is a complete disappointment.

[nacl99]

No apple brand monitor for less then 1299

grrr.


Hell you can get a Dell SYSTEM+ 15" (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/advertised_dimen3?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) flat panel for 499


grrr

[johnnypark1]

I'm fairly new to the Mac community...I bought my first Mac (a 2.0 PowerMac G5) last Fall. I've been waiting to buy a nice 23" display since then, I've done some price comparisons, and it looks like the new Mac displays aren't too high at all. Comparatively, the Viewsonic VP230MB is $2500 and the Sony SDM/P232 is $2100.

Are there others out there in the same class as these 3?

[paulypants]

Wow the whining is unbearable...

Anyway did anyone notice the grey looking keyboard
and mouse in the new displays QTVR pic--too bad
the link doesn't work so I couldn't see for sure--
maybe too many people watching it or...

okay just watched it and still looks grey--or just the lighting
is really bad...

soo probably not...oh well

Bring on iMacs :rolleyes:

[etoiles]

The new Sony 19" SDM-S94 is silver, 600 to 1 Contrast, 250 brightness and is $725

Thats a $550+ Difference!!!! I'm a mac fan BUT! Damn :mad:

yes, but:
Sony 19" SDM-S94 1280x1024
Apple 20" 1680x1050

[DTphonehome]

I'm stunned... but not by the displays, by the response of you babies.

80% of the posts in this thread amount to nothing more than "boo... I can't afford that." Guess what, this is bleeding edge.. if you don't like it take a step backwards.

Since when is $7k for the fastest machine and nicest monitor complaint worthy? This isn't pre-school, kiddies.

:rolleyes:

I agree fully. These new monitors are pretty sweet. Sure, they are a little pricey, but so are all things Apple. You get what you pay for. If you can't afford it, that's too bad for you, but that doesn't make the product any worse. Wide screen, tight dot pitch, ports, and the oh so cool Apple design (you know it will look swoopy and clean in the store...hardly Dell-like). It's definitely competitive.
If you want Viewsonic or Dell, go right ahead, have fun. It's a free world. Stop whining.

[Mac2004]

What's the price now for the old Apple Cinema displays and how do I find them on the Apple web site?

Personally, I think the OLD Apple displays look better and more sturdier than the new ones. I'm not really impressed with the new look. They should have just made the old style have the "aluminum" look....

By the way, did they say at WWDC if the newly released PowerMacs have the new G5 chip?

[discstickers]

OLD 350 to 1 contrast
NEW 400 to 1 contrast

OLD Brightness 230
NEW Brightness 250

Price = the same????

Really should be $999 for these

The new Sony 19" SDM-S94 is silver, 600 to 1 Contrast, 250 brightness and is $725

Thats a $550+ Difference!!!! I'm a mac fan BUT! Damn :mad:
That one has a 25ms response time, but CNET shopper found it for 641...

[cr2sh]

This is real life, buddy. A normal, sane person would not drop down $9000 (CAD) for a computer and moniter.

:rolleyes:

Well... buddy.

A normal person doesn't need a $7000 computer. This is a work station, a machine used to generate income. I'm not sure what a normal person would use a 30" display for but there seems to be some misunderstanding regarding the PRO line.

I could get on dell.com right now and configure a Precision 670 that has NO WHERE near the screen real-estate (one 19" lcd) that costs $6000. Why would a normal, sane person though buy a precision workstation?

It's a work station. The powermac with 30" lcd.. is a work station.

Like I said, take a step back.. these prices aren't that outragous. :rolleyes:

[DTphonehome]

I'm fairly new to the Mac community...I bought my first Mac (a 2.0 PowerMac G5) last Fall. I've been waiting to buy a nice 23" display since then, I've done some price comparisons, and it looks like the new Mac displays aren't too high at all. Comparatively, the Viewsonic VP230MB is $2500 and the Sony SDM/P232 is $2100.

Are there others out there in the same class as these 3?

Hey Johnny Park! (heh heh)
You're right. This is the price range for these high-end monitors. I believe many of the complainers on the board are used to pricing out 17 inchers. There is a BIG difference in price when you step up to the big leagues.

--DT

[legion]

Pricing for the Viewsonic 23" LCD is over $2200 on Best Buy. It has integrated speakers (yuck) and only does 1600x1200. The Sony 23" Widescreen LCD does 1920x1200 but is over $2200 as well. $1999 for the Apple 23" is actually very competitive.

That Sony has dual DVI inputs (front switchable) and is also the A grade panel used on the LUMA series. It's far better than any of the current 23" LCDs on the market. It also has been doing everything the Apple 23" will do in 2-4 weeks from now for the last 2 years or so. Plus, it helps that Sony actually makes LCD panels and does the tech work there whereas Apple buys what's available to them.

[iriejedi]

Well can't afford the display but for $125 extra you can got from 'old' 9800XT card to 'NEW' Nvidea 6800 card!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)
I Made the switch - can't afford the display.... but just in case......

[Sabbath]

I really think the monitor prices aren't too bad. This kind of stuff is expensive, really expensive, yes there seems to be a need for a 17" be it widescreen or not and I think Apple may realise this by the way they have kept the 17". However maybe they just can't compete with cheap LCDs so they stick to the premium markets (ie the big widescreens).

I'm not really convinced by the look of the displays though. They just look ugly head on, although they look nice from the side. I'll reserve judgement till I see one in person.

A 30" would be awesome to have but who has that sort of money? And the Nvidia 6800 looks like a good card, its supposed to be better than the x800 for Open GL I thought, and I thought that is important for macs, however I may be wrong? and $600 sounds expensive but a PC card is $500 + the dual DVI stuff and smaller market probably comes out about right.

[panphage]

What a bunch of little whiners. Those of you on your price high-horse screaming about buying a viewsonic: Have you actually priced these? Sure, you can get a semi-comparable 20" for an amazing $200 or so less, but no firewire, no widescreen, etc, etc. And the only 23" offered by viewsonic costs $2800US (do the math, that's $900US MORE then the Apple) AND has less pixels (the same as the 20" models) AND 25ms response time.

And here's another lie, the 23" does not require a new graphics card, only the 30" monitor, a size that NO OTHER VENDOR is offering. When you're the only company selling something, well, you can charge a premium if you like, but I don't think it's out of line to pay $500 more for a 30% larger screen, especially since viewsonic's target market is bargain-basement. And of course you need a special graphics card, there's over 4 MILLION bloody pixels! Let's try and base our comments at least loosely on FACTS. No wonder Dell is doing so badly if all their employees do is spend time FUDding on Mac boards.

[()verBored]

Is...DOES THIS MONITOR GAME?

Those who know what I mean, please help me out! If it truly has 16 MS response time, that would be very slick! Who makes the panel (those who know what I am talking about please respond)? At what color depth does it have 16 MS response?

Honestly, I don't game as much on my PC as I used to, but, the monitor still needs to perform to those kind of specs!

I'm a PC user, so I'm pumped they dropped ADC for DVI. Now where to dig up the money....

I think Apple needs to send these to the nice folks at TomsHardware so they can review it.

[Cooknn]

I'm fairly new to the Mac community...I bought my first Mac (a 2.0 PowerMac G5) last Fall. I've been waiting to buy a nice 23" display since then, I've done some price comparisons, and it looks like the new Mac displays aren't too high at all. Comparatively, the Viewsonic VP230MB is $2500 and the Sony SDM/P232 is $2100.

Are there others out there in the same class as these 3?I'm in the same boat as you. Bought my first Mac (G5) last fall, and have been waiting for a new 23". Considering the price of the competition I think it's a no-brainer to go with the Apple 23", especially since we already own a G5. No-brainer that is, if you're prepared to drop another $2K :eek:

[nsb3000]

congrats to apple....it is now once again possible to spend over 15,000 dollars on a single workstation without buying any "accessory" upgrades.

strictly speaking,

dual G5 2.5
load the RAM
dual 30" monitors (along w/obligatory gfx card upgrade)
dual 250gig HDDs

I didn't even have to add a fibre-channel card to get it over 15K.

amazing.

i

Here is the sad thing. Even with a 15k Machine, you will still get the spinning beach ball from time to time! I hope they fix that in 10.4…

[jmontanino]

Has anyone else noticed that the new monitors look like they would easily topple forward? They look so front-heavy. I'm sure Apple has worked around this, but I wonder how... that base must weigh a ton.

[shadowself]

Most everyone here seems to have forgotten that the 23 inch CinemaHD was initially $3499 (if I recall correctly). When others came out with similar displays 6-12 months later Apple dropped the price. The price has been declining since. I expect the same thing to happen with this new 30 inch display.

Also the video card to drive it is not too expensive in comparison to what else can run this display. The only universally available chipset I know of that can drive this many pixels is the FireGL set. In a very quick search of the 'net I cannot find any cards based upon that chipset for under $500. Thus Apple's card probably is reasonably priced.

True, the price for this pair is more than any of us want it to be. However, for the cutting edge really to be the cutting edge sometimes it has to be the bleading edge.

[wdlove]

I'm impressed by the look of the new monitors. That 30" is awesome. I imagine that they lean back slightly like the current models. Very anxious to see them in person. Does anyone know if they are currently on view at local Apple Stores?

[blorp]

Well... buddy.

A normal person doesn't need a $7000 computer. This is a work station, a machine used to generate income. I'm not sure what a normal person would use a 30" display for but there seems to be some misunderstanding regarding the PRO line.

I could get on dell.com right now and configure a Precision 670 that has NO WHERE near the screen real-estate (one 19" lcd) that costs $6000. Why would a normal, sane person though buy a precision workstation?

It's a work station. The powermac with 30" lcd.. is a work station.

Like I said, take a step back.. these prices aren't that outragous. :rolleyes:

You've got a point. The PowerMac G5 IS a pro machine. It is supposed to cost a lot. You get what you pay for, right? Right. I understand why the dual 2.5 costs $4100.

Let us get back on track, though: the displays. They are great. They look good, have a good resolution - I want one. But I cannot see why the 30" would cost $500 MORE than the top-of-the-line G5? I really want the 20" display. I do. But for the $1799 that it costs, I could get 2 Samsung 173Ts (GREAT displays, by the way), have 34" of display, and save $440. For every 3" on the Apple store, you add $1000. The 17" is $999. The 20" is $1799. The 23" is $2799.

I'm just saying that, while the displays are great, they are overpriced...buddy ;)

[cr2sh]

Anyway did anyone notice the grey looking keyboard
and mouse in the new displays QTVR pic

Wow great eye... here's the 480 view.

Wireless and Aluminium looking to boot. Wonder how long before that's changed?

[Shaggy_Alien]

I personally think they are Ugly and for that Prize they are Ugly as Hell!!!

I'll stick to the older Cinema Display and the one's from LaCie.

[vcc]

I just bought the newer g5 and the older 23" 4 days ago and to my surprise, I got notification that they were going to upgrade my monitor to the newer model. I suspect this is to prevent complaints from people such as I who bought the monitors so close to the release of the new ones. No matter... I'm excited.

I'm a hardcore x86 user and now is the time to relearn and explore my creative side =)

crossing my fingers ....

[iGary]

They are beautiful, but certainly do not make me like my 20" ACD (now old style) any less.

I personally like the tripod arrangement, the single cable and the USB ports (although firewire is cool),

No biggy, it's nice to see Apple's homepage with all new stuff on it! :D

[puckhead193]

I'm sorta mad that the 20 inch is still expensive...for a monitor.... but they do kick butt...Is there any difference between the new 20 and the old 20? Or the 23's? And the 30 inch is crazy, plus u need to have the new graphics card....
I would be really mad if I just bought a new G5 with an "old monitor" ..o well not my prob. :D
Was that the only thing they released?

[vcc]

hey... check my post previous to yours...


I bought the newer g5 and the "older" 23" 4 days ago and they did upgrade my monitor to the newer model at no cost cuz they are the same price. I suspect this is to prevent complaints from people such as I who bought the monitors so close to the release of the new ones. No matter... I'm excited.

[johnnypark1]

For every 3" on the Apple store, you add $1000. The 17" is $999. The 20" is $1799. The 23" is $2799.

I'm just saying that, while the displays are great, they are overpriced...buddy ;)

Check your prices...

[cr2sh]

I really want the 20" display. I do. But for the $1799 that it costs, I could get 2 Samsung 173Ts (GREAT displays, by the way), have 34" of display, and save $440.

The 20" costs $1299.

I can't argue with you, but that series of samsung's are a great value.. Apple on the other hand is very high end. We knew all of this though before this morning's announcement.. so why the shock?

[blorp]

Check your prices...

Canadian dollars. Sorry, hehe :p

[iGary]

These displays will most certainly fail just as the Mini did. :rolleyes:

[Hlau]

For every 3" on the Apple store, you add $1000. The 17" is $999. The 20" is $1799. The 23" is $2799.

I'm just saying that, while the displays are great, they are overpriced...buddy ;)

why am I seeing $699, $1299, $1999 on the Apple Store. Am I looking at edu prices?

Edit: ok. I see. Does anyone here know the Hi-ed programme edu prices for the displays in the UK?

[PPC970FX]

Dad can I get 6k for a Dual G5 2,5Ghz and 20"? NO :(

My father do`s not love me.

Well I think that you can not find a better display in that price class today.

Nice apple, good work.

[blorp]

The 20" costs $1299.

I can't argue with you, but that series of samsung's are a great value.. Apple on the other hand is very high end. We knew all of this though before this morning's announcement.. so why the shock?

I guess I wanted to believe the rumours. I'm shocked because for 3" more screen space than the 173T, and a few more features and better specs, I would pay nearly $1000 more. I'll just wait for the next price drop on the displays - that'll lower it a few hundred bones.

[madetheswitch99]

Hey you all ... I did it ... I made the switch ... and FINALLY. I wanted to do this a while ago as I've been waiting for the new G5's since January of this year.

I'm happy to say that I bought a dual 2.5 with the following specs:

- Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
- 1GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x512
- 160GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
- Combo (CD-RW/DVD-ROM)
- 065-4893 ATI Radeon 9800 XT w/256MB DDR SDRAM
- Bluetooth Module + Apple Wireless Keyboard & Mouse

Other things:
- The new 23" HD Display
- .mac
- Apple Care plan


The reason I didn't upgrade the Hard Drive is that I have an external 250 GB Lacie triple interface drive.

I didn't get the Super Drive because I have an external 8X DVD+- Plextor Drive.

Any comments on my system would be appreciated as I can still make changes if needed.

Thanks!

[seyo]

In my humble opinion, and many of my friends and co workers who have been long time apple users agree, the trend with apple lately has been very disappointing. Dont get me wrong, the tech is really cool and industry leading bla bla bla, but in a sense, that isnt very hard to do. Whats harder to do is make really cool, high quality cutting edge stuff that is AFFORDABLE. There is no reason why they cant have a true entry level product line ($700 for a 17" LCD is NOT industry leading).

I just bought a DVI-D 18" monitor from iiyama for $400. ITs awesome, but I would have much preferred for it to be an apple branded monitor. I would have paid $500 for the same monitor if it had an apple logo on it. I keep wondering why apple cant do this. I think its unwise for them to alienate their grass roots base of users by making more and more of their products so high end. Pretty soon they will be like the next SGI, only available to those with the big bucks or big budgets while the rest of us will be kicking our intel based beige boxes.

[nagromme]

What you pay for:

* Size and quality of display (the "raw specs")

* Styling and G5-matched case (that adds value for some, and thus WILL legitimately increase price. And don't say it's easy to design things that look this good, or you'd see everyone doing it. But you don't have to buy Apple style if you prefer something else, to each her own.)

* Ergonomics/flexibility (the space-efficient tilt stand, the other mounting options, the magnetic iSight attachment, the single-cable simplicity)

* USB 2 and FireWire (real 6-pin) hubs

To judge the new prices, could someone please list competing products that offer the same value on all (not some) of the above? Because if other truly COMPARABLE models aren't much cheaper, then all people can complain about is that they "want" a cheap LCD that doesn't exist. Or that they wish Apple offered something with fewer features so it could be cheaper. Fair enough--I just advised someone to get a non-Apple, smaller display based on price. Choices are good!

And if LCD component prices haven't dropped, that's just life for now.

These MAY be a terrible value, but I've seen nothing posted here that truly suggests that you can get the same for cheaper. Prices and specs would be welcome--and SOMETHING has to make up for the lack of Firewire or you can't point to a similar display being cheaper.

[snahabed]

OK, I guess they still sell old-style 17", but I am left to wonder why they don't offer a new-style 17". Am I missing something? Not EVER G5 owner is a graphics studio... some people buy towers because it is the only headless Mac option (I am in this category)... such people are likely not in the market for such big and expensive displays.

I like them though... bet they'll look hot all mounted on a wall.

[nagromme]

I agree about the 17"... putting the Apple widescreen 17" into an Al case, with USB hub but no Firewire, would be nice in the lineup.

Maybe that will be added once the old 17" is cleared out enough? Or maybe Apple is waiting due to supply issues on the widescreen, which they already need for two other products?

Steve likes style. A 17" version MUST be on the way sooner or later.

[themacman]

Saying that only two knew thing were realesed and only one of them will ship soon, this wwdc was just ok. What happend last year? and also does anyone know where you can watch the keynote on the web

[themacman]

If you look at hte apple store it says prices start at 699

[iriejedi]

PAY THE $135 to go from ATI 9800XT "old tech" to Nvidea 6800 "really new tech"!!!!! And do not buy your ram at APPLE - buy (2x512) from crucial and for the same cost (or close) as you were going to spend you will get newest/bestest video card AND and EXTRA 512 ram (total 1.5gig ram) - that is my story and I'm sticking to it! (cause I did it!)


Hey you all ... I did it ... I made the switch ... and FINALLY. I wanted to do this a while ago as I've been waiting for the new G5's since January of this year.

I'm happy to say that I bought a dual 2.5 with the following specs:

- Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
- 1GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x512
- 160GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
- Combo (CD-RW/DVD-ROM)
- 065-4893 ATI Radeon 9800 XT w/256MB DDR SDRAM
- Bluetooth Module + Apple Wireless Keyboard & Mouse

Other things:
- The new 23" HD Display
- .mac
- Apple Care plan


The reason I didn't upgrade the Hard Drive is that I have an external 250 GB Lacie triple interface drive.

I didn't get the Super Drive because I have an external 8X DVD+- Plextor Drive.

Any comments on my system would be appreciated as I can still make changes if needed.

Thanks!

[jet_silver]

I wanted to buy an Apple monitor, but for $200 -less- than the old 20" I got about 15% more screen real estate and a three-year warranty with the Samsung. When the new monitors turned up on the Rumor-Scope I thought 'great, they'll drop the price and the value proposition will change.'

Nope. Apple blew it. Still $1299 for the 20". Still a measly one-year warranty.

Feh, I say. They might sell a few of the 30" panels, but the others are just not price-competitive.

[themacman]

Where are the G5 imacs? People would want that more then new displays right? These are cool but the imac needed a new look and procesr more then the displays

[maveness]

There was no 17" aluminum-framed display announced because that's the one that they'll be selling with the new iMac!, which clearly will be announced in a timely fashion for the Christmas shopping season.

Wait for your iPod and iMac announcements to be timed to seasonal spending ~ as Steve has plainly stated he no longer wishes hardware announcements to be linked exclusively to conference events.

[themacman]

There was no 17" aluminum-framed display announced because that's the one that they'll be selling with the new iMac!, which clearly will be announced in a timely fashion for the Christmas shopping season.

Wait for your iPod and iMac announcements to be timed to seasonal spending ~ as Steve has plainly stated he no longer wishes hardware announcements to be linked exclusively to conference events.

I agree but then it would be almost a year before an update for a computer that is way to long. I think it will be around september

[awesomebase]

I don't think ANYBODY in the computer industry can possibly sell equipment for 2 years at the same price... what in the world is Apple thinking? No price drop on the 20" monitor? 19" LCDs with better specs can be found easily at Costco, Fry's, and BestBuy for well under $600. I would have thought that even $999 would have been a stretch, but keeping the price the same is just insane. I can't imagine their margins... The 23" I would have expected to be around $1699 or $1799. $1999 still isn't too bad. The 30" for $3299 is a little much but not bad considering... still, it leaves all but the biggest pockets able to get Apple LCDs...

[madetheswitch99]

PAY THE $135 to go from ATI 9800XT "old tech" to Nvidea 6800 "really new tech"!!!!! And do not buy your ram at APPLE - buy (2x512) from crucial and for the same cost (or close) as you were going to spend you will get newest/bestest video card AND and EXTRA 512 ram (total 1.5gig ram) - that is my story and I'm sticking to it! (cause I did it!)

Thanks for your comments but if I'm not going to have the 30" display, would I really need the 6800? What would it offer for the 23" display?

Thanks!

[mymemory]

Those monitors are way too expensive and overrated.

I care less about the design that is already cheap.

What in the hell is going up with Apple?

It wouldn't surprise me that Jobs is the owner of more than half of the PC industry and he is making more money (as Bill said) out of every Mac in the PC industry.

[DMann]

Ridiculous pricing.
I'm use to getting gouged by apple but these new monitor prices are just ridiculous.
Come on steve, how many helicopters do you need?
:eek:

With Sony's 23" LCD costing $2,200, why should apple
be chastised for selling cheaper?

[Chip NoVaMac]

yes, but:
Sony 19" SDM-S94 1280x1024
Apple 20" 1680x1050

I'll have to try it at the Apple Store retail, but some complain that the 12" is too small for 1024x768. I would think that 20" at 1680x1050 would not be much different.

[Capt Underpants]

Wow great eye... here's the 480 view.

Wireless and Aluminium looking to boot. Wonder how long before that's changed?

They look as snow white as ever to me...

[the future]

Please do not compare the price of 19" displays to the 20" Apple display. 19" displays have a low resolution of 1280x1024 (just like 17" displays) = nowhere near 1680x1050. Thanks.

[Ge4-ce]

I was slobbering as I was reading the new specs on the 30" cinema display. I did notice one thing though. The new Dual DVI graphics card caught everyone in this forum by surprise. Not one person mention the new card. Apple done it to us again. :)

I'm sorry, but I DID mention that the current MAC cards were not able to produce such a res. but heck.. nobody wanted to listen to me then

Besides, PEOPLE listen: Go and Look for a monitor with the SAME or BETTER specs for the price Apple offers. And then come and complain about the price!!

I went to look at Sony, Nec, Viewsonic, Philips, Lacie, Dell and others and there was NOT A SINGLE screen that matches Price/performance. Heck, the sony 23" was even 2599$ for less brightness, respondtime and contrast!!! that's less for More! Go check things out first before you rant about the prices..

[Chip NoVaMac]

I agree fully. These new monitors are pretty sweet. Sure, they are a little pricey, but so are all things Apple. You get what you pay for. If you can't afford it, that's too bad for you, but that doesn't make the product any worse. Wide screen, tight dot pitch, ports, and the oh so cool Apple design (you know it will look swoopy and clean in the store...hardly Dell-like). It's definitely competitive.
If you want Viewsonic or Dell, go right ahead, have fun. It's a free world. Stop whining.

The key is not some of us whining. It is that we want to spend our money with Apple, but not be robbed by Apple. The 20" pricing seems to be the most out of touch with reality.

If I were staying with my PB, the USB 2.0 and FW400 ports are sweet. But one can get a wide-screen LCD TV that can serve as a monitor from Viewsonic for under $700.

And I wonder when the lawsuits will start over Steve's comments that they use only the best LCD panels, that the other manufacturers use the leftovers.

[wPod]

Any comments on my system would be appreciated as I can still make changes if needed.

Thanks!

um. . . could you pick me one up too? id settle for a 20" instead of the 23". . . and maybe even the 1.8 isntead of the 2.5. that is if you would be kind enough to get one for me as well :-)

man i need to get a new major. . . i dont think ill ever make enough money as a mechanical engineer to spend more than 6gs on a computer. (probably no more than 2 for that matter). i know i will never be able to at my current job . . . a mechanical engineer intern :-)

[sfoalex]

Apple state you can run 2 230 inch panels off a nvidia 6800 but if one needs dual connections how do you hook up the other?
Or have a miss understood the dual aspect

Dual Link doesn't mean it takes two cables to attach to a single monitor to work. Not even with the 30 inch monitor. Each single DVI connector is either a single link or a dual link. Single Link means it carries a maximum of 1600x1200 while dual link drives a much higher pixel count, i.e. 2560 x 1600. You have dual connections, and both are dual link DVI, so you can attach two 30" displays if you want.

You need this new card, because you need a dual link DVI connection to drive the big monitor. Older cards use Single Link DVI.

Hope that clears things up for you.

[Capt Underpants]

Saying that only two knew thing were realesed and only one of them will ship soon, this wwdc was just ok. What happend last year? and also does anyone know where you can watch the keynote on the web

Last year at WWDC the Powermac G5's were introduced, Panther was Deom'd, the iSight was introduced, the 3 Ghz promise was made, etc. The link to the 2003 WWDC keynote is here (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/whatson/appleevents/). Enjoy!

[Borg3of5]

The new displays are nice and everything, but Apple does really suck for not putting out an G5-based iMac. Although I'm not in the market for an iMac, it doesn't really have anything positive to say for Apple's R/D team, when all that they have to offer are just new displays.

I mean c'mon. As of today, the G5 has been out for a year and still no other machine with a G5, even a single G5! Now, this does pose the question, about a previous thread referencing nearly depleted iMacs; they could be around the corner.

No iMac G5, no new iPod with photo/video capabilities?! I don't think SJ has been taking his testosterone supplements, where are his cojones?!

These updates are lame! What is up with Apple?

Tiger being 64-bit is great news, but shipping at the first HALF of 2005? What is going on?

I guess this will have to do, since going back to Micro$sux is NOT an option. Mac users have once again taken it up the dérière without any Vaseline.

[etoiles]

I'll have to try it at the Apple Store retail, but some complain that the 12" is too small for 1024x768. I would think that 20" at 1680x1050 would not be much different.

[squint] porbably the same people who complain that newspaper print is getting smaller and smaller... :p [\squint]

seriously though, I have been using 1600x1200 on a 20" CRT (smaller than 20"lcd) for a while without problems...

[narco]

This is real life, buddy. A normal, sane person would not drop down $9000 (CAD) for a computer and moniter.

:rolleyes:

A normal, sane person knows the difference between what he needs, and what he wants. Not everyone NEEDS a 30" display and the fastest computer. If they do need it, chances are they make enough money to pay for it.

Quit whining, everyone. I wonder how many people complaining about the price were actually in the market to buy a display anyway.

// narco

[nagromme]

Ignore the troll who managed to steal some screenshots. He entertained us, and now his childishness has been reported to moderators. Feel sorry for him, but don't waste your time on him.

Back on topic... I'm glad the reports were wrong that said you needed TWO graphics boards to run the 30" :)

EDIT: that misunderstanding must have come from the double-thick form factor explained below :)

[Apple of my eye]

Interesting fact. After spending 4 large on your new 30" monitor and nVidia 6800 card you lose a pci133 slot. The following is quoted from a caption in the Apple store at

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9593G/A

Special note on the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra: due to size of this advanced graphics card, the adjacent PCI or PCI-X slot will be blocked and cannot be used. This reduces the number of available PCI or PCI-X slots from three to two.

[corvus]

Macs should be cheaper than they are...

There is no price comparison when you consider total cost of ownership---cost, usability, maintenance, longevity, security and so on. Macintosh is always the least expensive way to go. Apple builds very :cool: machines.

[nagromme]

The new displays are nice and everything, but Apple does really suck for not putting out an G5-based iMac. Although I'm not in the market for an iMac, it doesn't really have anything positive to say for Apple's R/D team, when all that they have to offer are just new displays.
...
No iMac G5, no new iPod with photo/video capabilities?!
...
Mac users have once again taken it up the dérière without any Vaseline.

Obvious trolling. Apple has no reason to release anything on this date (a developer conference!)--they can choose next week or whenever the time is right. Why does Apple owe you a G5 iMac you won't buy today vs. any other day? :rolleyes: Because some rumor site told you 6/28 was Apple's only choice and you believed it? ;)

[narco]

The new displays are nice and everything, but Apple does really suck for not putting out an G5-based iMac. Although I'm not in the market for an iMac, it doesn't really have anything positive to say for Apple's R/D team, when all that they have to offer are just new displays.

I mean c'mon. As of today, the G5 has been out for a year and still no other machine with a G5, even a single G5! Now, this does pose the question, about a previous thread referencing nearly depleted iMacs; they could be around the corner.

No iMac G5, no new iPod with photo/video capabilities?! I don't think SJ has been taking his testosterone supplements, where are his cojones?!

These updates are lame! What is up with Apple?

Tiger being 64-bit is great news, but shipping at the first HALF of 2005? What is going on?

I guess this will have to do, since going back to Micro$sux is NOT an option. Mac users have once again taken it up the dérière without any Vaseline.

If you're not in the market for a G5-iMac, then why are you complaining? New displays are a big thing, the G5 was just updated, what else do you want? The video-iPod? At a Developer's conference? What is there to develop on the iPod?

I've been a Mac user for 10 years, and I definitely don't feel like I've been taken up the rear-end. If you want something with a G5 in it, then buy the friggin' G5. If you want a video iPod, put on a DVD and look at your television screen through the reflection on the back of the iPod.

//narco

[sfoalex]

The new displays are nice and everything, but Apple does really suck for not putting out an G5-based iMac. Although I'm not in the market for an iMac, it doesn't really have anything positive to say for Apple's R/D team, when all that they have to offer are just new displays.

I mean c'mon. As of today, the G5 has been out for a year and still no other machine with a G5, even a single G5! Now, this does pose the question, about a previous thread referencing nearly depleted iMacs; they could be around the corner.

No iMac G5, no new iPod with photo/video capabilities?! I don't think SJ has been taking his testosterone supplements, where are his cojones?!

These updates are lame! What is up with Apple?

Tiger being 64-bit is great news, but shipping at the first HALF of 2005? What is going on?

I guess this will have to do, since going back to Micro$sux is NOT an option. Mac users have once again taken it up the dérière without any Vaseline.

So you own a G3 800 MHz and you are complaining about the lack of a G5 in the iMac. You complain about the OS being more 64 bit capable by 2005 as an issue? You're not exactly using the most advanced technology as it is now, so what difference does it make to you. What application do you use now that requires 64 bit?

Typing stupid messages on the web and in chat must really require some high end hardware huh....

[jxyama]

But one can get a wide-screen LCD TV that can serve as a monitor from Viewsonic for under $700.

then go get those viewsonics.

apple's not "forcing" you to spend your money. it's your choice. just because one company makes such and such doesn't mean apple has to. apple has reasons for its product offerings and prices and so do all other companies. if apple doesn't offer what you want, don't buy apple's stuff.

and people screamed bloody murder when iPod Mini came out. "geez, what kind of idiot would spend $250 on a 4 GB mp3 player when you can get a rio 20 GB for $50 more?!" well, apparently, a lot of people.

[corvus]

Interesting fact. After spending 4 large on your new 30" monitor and nVidia 6800 card you lose a pci133 slot. The following is quoted from a caption in the Apple store at

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9593G/A

Special note on the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra: due to size of this advanced graphics card, the adjacent PCI or PCI-X slot will be blocked and cannot be used. This reduces the number of available PCI or PCI-X slots from three to two.

One of the very :cool: things about Apple is their honesty. Good people. Good products.

[bkopi]

i did not read every post, sorry if i repeat this question.
i have the single 1.8 G5, can i use the new display card to run the 30"?
thanks

[obiwan]

These displays are the biggest load of pants I've seen Apple produce in quite some time.

First of all they dump their own ADC in favour of DVI using the marketing drivel 'Industry Standard' - ah yes, you've finally realised NOT to keep inventing connectors that no one else can use, and then go backwards by reverting back to DVI. Call this innovation?

Then they somehow think PC users are going to buy Apple monitors, because they are now PC Compatible. - Er, don't you realise that PC users vote with their wallets, and are not lured by the marketing hype us Apple fanatics are drawn in by. - Why buy 2 PC LCD monitors when you can buy 1 Apple monitor for the same price?

Even I, as an Apple loyalist can't stretch to an Apple Cinema Display - I'm still skint after forking out for my G5...

How much money to Apple think us humble designers earn? Surely not enough to pay more than £5000 (UK Sterling) every couple of years on a new Computer. The Steve Jobs reality distortion field is really kicking in now.

[QCassidy352]

Besides, PEOPLE listen: Go and Look for a monitor with the SAME or BETTER specs for the price Apple offers. And then come and complain about the price!!

I went to look at Sony, Nec, Viewsonic, Philips, Lacie, Dell and others and there was NOT A SINGLE screen that matches Price/performance. Heck, the sony 23" was even 2599$ for less brightness, respondtime and contrast!!! that's less for More! Go check things out first before you rant about the prices..

well, i actually like the new apple monitors quite a bit, and will likely get a new 20"er. But there other monitors that compare favorably. How about these, just to name 2:

Formac 2010 -
20", 1600x1200
170 degree viewing angle
250 nits brightness
600:1 contrast ratio
guarantee of no more than 2 dead pixels - or you get a new one.
$1300

Sony -
20", 1600x1200
170 degree viewing angle
250 cd/m2
500:1
$1100

Now, before today, apple was not competitive with these offerings. After the update, I'd say the apple displays are not a rip off - they are now very comparable to other monitors at the high end of both price and performance. Sure you can get a cheap POS 19" monitor for $500 or whatever, but check the specs: 1280x1024, bad viewing angle, etc. You get what you pay for. Apple's new displays are very high quality, and they accordingly cost about as much as other top-end monitors.

[nagromme]

Some trivia :)

* The cheapest 30"-ready PowerMac config you could build--with education pricing--is $2133 (that includes the 6800 board and a free printer)

* At $2999 apiece (education) you can therefore have a dual-G5 PowerMac rig with a pair of 30" displays for $8131. Additional RAM recommended :)

* Viewable size of the 30": 25.2 wide x 15.7" tall (Wow)

* Actual DPI: 101.65. That's slightly smaller (but brighter) text/pixels than a 15.2" AlBook, and almost exactly the DPI of an iPod :)

* The misleadingly-named "dual-link DVI" used by the 30" still only uses ONE cable. That's why the NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL with two ports will drive two 30" displays.

* That 8x AGP GeForce 6800 Ultra board does a lot more than permit a 30" screen. It has 256 MB VRAM, "the industry's first 16-pipe superscalar architecture and support for the world's fastest DDR3 memory," and "using over 220 million transistors it supports a 256-bit interface for an effective memory bandwidth of 35.2 GB per second which delivers 600 million vertices, 6.4 billion textured pixels per second." (From the Apple store.)

* 6.4B pixels per second is enough to draw a 30" screen (4.01 million pixels) nearly 1600 times a second.

* The GeForce 6800 is wide enough to block a PCI slot--but it's not the only one. So it the ATI Radeon 9800 XT.

[letterbox]

Coming from somebody who doesn't "really" have the money to spend on a new 20" monitor, I think I may get one inspite of that. I have a G5 and a 17" screen. After using the 17" for a few days (yes i knew wwdc would most likely bring displays, i'm not upset) I just don't think that for the price the 17" is going to give me the performance that I need it to give me for the next 2 or 3 or more years while I am in school (graphic design major).

That being said, I do need a portable machine sometime early on in the school year, and if I get a new 20" I will have 447.30 to get me an iBook, 2 airport extreme cards, and a 512 stick for the iBook. Obviously, I am about 800 dollars short if I get the new 20". If I get the old one, I don't know how much they will drop but just for a laugh lets say they drop to 1069edu. I might still go with the new one.

Yes, this is a long winded post, but just to some people who can't fathom spending that kind of money on a display (and it is your right to, it is alot of $$), there are people who need displays that perform at this level who will pay (even more than they can, like me) these prices and live with the consequences even if it means shorting themselves in other areas.

[robotrenegade]

Apple doesn't think sometime. Why would they bring these displays out and not even have them ready. So if someone buys a new G5 they have to wait for the display. At least sell the older ones until the new ones are ready.

[obiwan]

Apple doesn't think sometime. Why would they bring these displays out and not even have them ready. So if someone buys a new G5 they have to wait for the display. At least sell the older ones until the new ones are ready.

The Old 17" is still selling at the UK Apple Store

[FFTT]

I think the folks at Apple done good!

They seemed to hear our voices regarding many issues and the media center idea has become a reality, so I'm pleased.

Yes, my dream system now went to $7000, but by the time I've saved enough or sold my children :-) things may be a bit better.

At least Apple is going in the right direction.





BTW, those trying to save a few bucks might look at LG Electronics

[Chip NoVaMac]

Where are the G5 imacs? People would want that more then new displays right? These are cool but the imac needed a new look and procesr more then the displays

ALas, we are left with "old tech", while the eMac gets "new tech"....

[Chip NoVaMac]

I agree but then it would be almost a year before an update for a computer that is way to long. I think it will be around september

Needs to be sooner IMHO.

[ITR 81]

I just bought a 42inch plasma for my biz, but I will need a 30inch display by yr end..so might as well make it a Apple display...I hope the new 3Ghz G5's are out by then.

I've already ordered my 2.5Ghz G5 for my biz.

Apple needs to make a Plasma display TV/Mac/PC verison.

If I ever get my design studio off the ground I may order a couple of 23 and 30inchers.

[erik1665]

I'm a little confused about the dual DVI card needed for the 30". I realize that it only needs one connector on the card (I guess it uses another set of pins?).

I see that a single DVI type connector can only drive a monitor at 1600x1200, so how does the new or old 23" monitor that supports 1920x1200 work with the single DVI type connector like the ATI 9800.

I currently own the ADC (old) 23" and the ATI 9800 so I can say it does work, but I am wonder how it works?

Thanks

[letterbox]

I just talked with an apple rep on the phone, all old 20 and 23 inch displays are going to be pulled from the supply chain and will no longer be for sale. They don't have information right now for pricing on them if you can find them, which I'm sure you will be able to do for a bit longer...I would think.

[kingslod]

Apple truly needs to have either a G4 tower again with PCI so I can add the 699 17 inch and have a nice ~2200 solution

Why does Apple need to make old machines? Why can't you just buy used?

[Chip NoVaMac]

[squint] porbably the same people who complain that newspaper print is getting smaller and smaller... :p [\squint]

seriously though, I have been using 1600x1200 on a 20" CRT (smaller than 20"lcd) for a while without problems...

I have the PB 12' rev. b, and for the most part no real problems. But if I am getting a bigger monitor, i am not willing to "suffer through the minor resolution' issues.

[letterbox]

I'm a little confused about the dual DVI card needed for the 30". I realize that it only needs one connector on the card (I guess it uses another set of pins?).

I see that a single DVI type connector can only drive a monitor at 1600x1200, so how does the new or old 23" monitor that supports 1920x1200 work with the single DVI type connector like the ATI 9800.

I currently own the ADC (old) 23" and the ATI 9800 so I can say it does work, but I am wonder how it works?

The "old" style apple displays run/ran on ADC, which probably (?) supports higher resolution than dvi. That would seem like a reasonable explanation to me.

[crees!]

Well I'm going to get a job. Those who work, work overtime. Those who don't have a job.. quit complaining. End of discussion.

[Capt Underpants]

Apple truly needs to have either a G4 tower again with PCI so I can add the 699 17 inch and have a nice ~2200 solution ormanage to get a betetr price point for the monitor lineup.


Apple has the G4 tower. They're still selling them! Scroll down on the Apple Store page and you'll see the tiny picture of them.... And if you're going to buy one, hurry, because they're only while supplies last, AFAIK.

[warcraftmaster]

I can't believe the prices. :mad:
I guess I will buy a Sony or Viewsonic monitor before I will pay those prices plus the damn video card. To bad I was looking forward to a new Apple monitor. And besides I'm not that impressed with the look. :( what is all of your guys problems gzzzzzz look at this 23 by sony http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=VX3cdD0hDsbcZ33ByHjWf3ItYCfjUrF9PXM=?ProductSKU=SDMP232W%2fB&Dept=cpu_Displays&CategoryName=cpu_Displays_FlatPanelLCDs_20%22 wow you save 400 doller it was 3000$
and this one looks almost like apples http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=295470&pfp=BROWSE its a 24 and wide sreen and its just 5000$ i guss it just me who thinks apple rocks at prices :( am all alone

[jackc]

How much was the 23" and 20" before this update? Why don't any Mac sites put up a comparison when new products come out, for those of us who don't have the product line memorized? :D

[daveg5]

Isn't two 23" displays (3940X1200) better than 1 30"(2560X1600) and you keep your pci slots.
For the same $4000? or better yet 2 20"3300X1050 displays for $2500 seems to be the best seal unless you must edit HD.
Or even better 2 22" super-bright CRT Lacie-Nec-Sony (4096X1536) for$1100 or just 1 at (2048X1536) for $550 with better viewing angle, no dead pixels faster response time, true blacks ,.24 dot pitch, more durable screen, longer warranty.
of course much larger, hotter, more radiation, not as much contrast or brightness.
decisions - decisions???

[Chip NoVaMac]

Obvious trolling. Apple has no reason to release anything on this date (a developer conference!)--they can choose next week or whenever the time is right. Why does Apple owe you a G5 iMac you won't buy today vs. any other day? :rolleyes: Because some rumor site told you 6/28 was Apple's only choice and you believed it? ;)

And counter trolling....

the only reason to release today as opposed to any other day is that the world is watching. For some, the money is there today for the new iMac G5. If the wait a month or two, some may find other places for their money (and it might not be Apple).

The fact is that Apple indicated their plans by updating the eMac first. Those of us that are solidly in the Mac camp will probably wait for the iMac G5, or buy the PM G5. There are those of us that see the bigger picture. The G5 iMac would have been a great addition for us, but we are also looking towards those that are buying their first Mac.

They will probably not want the CRT based eMac. And they look at how overpriced the current iMac's are compared to the eMac's; and they take their computer dollars else where. For the PM G5's are too expensive for them.

[army_guy]

A 30" panel with a 16ms response time, I doubt this as manufacturers are strugling to get 20" panels with that. Until panels reach 10ms and below will LCDs avoid the bluring, smearing and ghosting problems which have plagued every single panel i have seen above 19". These will be great displays for running VLSI design tools like DUAL 30" would be great. For workstations and desktops they will be fine and for the gamer I will always have a CRT beside the LCD until one can get that magic 10ms.

[TheWama]

Personally, I HATED the old style displays.
But the new are very appealing.
Forget Dell, these are Bauhaus.

As for pricing, the 23" and 30" is a bargain compared to prices from Dell (who doesn't carry a 30" monitor).

[kingslod]

Typing stupid messages on the web and in chat must really require some high end hardware huh....

Hey Alex,

Calm down there buddy. ;)

I'm actually looking forward to getting a new 23! And maybe a dual 2.0... :D

David (formerly with lbmca-west)

[daveg5]

Why does Apple need to make old machines? Why can't you just buy used?
Apple supposedly makes a huge profit on the old G4's, so they will keep selling them to those who need OS9 booting, as the dual 1.8 is only $200 dollars more with superdrive. the picture in their store is just as big as all the other product pictures.
the duals were actually faster than the single G5's at a lot of things, however Apple no longer sells the single G5's which make the dual G4's less attractive, also the Dual G4's have not upgraded to the 1.4-1.5 G4's as the powerbooks and some upgrade manufactures have. (Powerlogix-Giga design)

[MacKenzie999]

...I just wish Apple sold some aluminum speakers that sat on the side of the monitors. That would be kick A$$.

I believe Bose makes a desktop speaker system that looks very compatible with the current design of the g5's and new monitors. I haven't seen 'em up close but online they looked quite similar.

[Chip NoVaMac]

then go get those viewsonics.

apple's not "forcing" you to spend your money. it's your choice. just because one company makes such and such doesn't mean apple has to. apple has reasons for its product offerings and prices and so do all other companies. if apple doesn't offer what you want, don't buy apple's stuff.

and people screamed bloody murder when iPod Mini came out. "geez, what kind of idiot would spend $250 on a 4 GB mp3 player when you can get a rio 20 GB for $50 more?!" well, apparently, a lot of people.

Nice smokescreen argument. As far as I can tell the monitors don't offer much more than what others are offering. No extra value or ease of use. unlike the iPods that had ease of use and unique value compared to the others. The only advantage that I see to the 20" is for us PB users is the extra FW400 port (and maybe the extra USB 2.0 port).

[army_guy]

The resolution of the 30" is low considering there are 1920x1200 15.4" panels like my DELL laptop. I would of prefered something abit higher like 3500-4000 etc.

[army_guy]

Personally, I HATED the old style displays.
But the new are very appealing.
Forget Dell, these are Bauhaus.

As for pricing, the 23" and 30" is a bargain compared to prices from Dell (who doesn't carry a 30" monitor).

But DELL has the 19" with the awsome response time, theres only slight ghosting compared to the apple lcds.

[cr2sh]

For the same $4000 for $2500 for $1100 or for $550

You sound like someone who concerned about price.

Those who buy the 30" want the best, and some combo / side-by-side, bezel down the middle, cheaper answer.. isn't going to cut it.

You've argued price.. not an issue to those people.
You've argued lcd/crt, that issue regards all lcds vs. crts, so not really valid here.

The guys who come here a lot kinda knew this was coming, what we didn't know about was the video card and the added $600. Not the best execution.. but whatever, its top of the food chain over here.

[nagromme]

Re G5 iMacs:

the only reason to release today as opposed to any other day is that the world is watching.

All thing being equal, I agree. New iMacs/iPods/whatever today would have been fun! But the world isn't watching WWDC... beyond the developers in attendance, only a select segment of Mac fans and notoriously under-informed analysts are watching WWDC. And of the people who are, only a tiny fraction of them honestly think Apple can't release something at another time than WWDC. There are some vocal anonymous complainers in Mac forums, but those few voices don't add up to much for Apple's business.

I short, I don't think there was any compelling business reason for Apple to choose WWDC for a hardware product like the iMac. There are MUCH bigger and better reasons to choose a date--manufacturing, inventory, marketing campaigns, not distracting from other things, avoiding Apple and non-Apple events what would distract from it, component costs, supplier delays, legal agreements, etc. etc.... Those all add up to SO much more than trying to please a few vocal Mac forum goers who took WWDC rumors as fact.

[daveg5]

The resolution of the 30" is low considering there are 1920x1200 15.4" panels like my DELL laptop. I would of prefered something abit higher like 3500-4000 etc.
i can do 1920x1080 on my 13.8 viewable sony crt from 5 years ago at 60hz. thats pretty small but viewable.
crt's 20" have been doing 2000+X1500+ at 85HZ for years and its quite viewable at about $500
but I bet the 30" looks much better.

[erik1665]

The "old" style apple displays run/ran on ADC, which probably (?) supports higher resolution than dvi. That would seem like a reasonable explanation to me.

I think ADC is just DVI with Power and USB. But even if was different how will the new 23" DVI monitors work with a Single vs. Dual DVI to handle the 1920x1200 resolution when single DVI is only rated for 1600x1200 resolution.

Thanks



I did a search and for this info about DVI

WHAT ARE SINGLE AND DUAL LINKS ?



" The Digital formats are available in DVI-D Single-Link and Dual-Link as well as DVI-I Single-Link and Dual-Link format connectors. These cables send information using a digital information format called TMDS (transition minimized differential signaling).
Single link cables use one TMDS 165Mhz transmitter, while dual links use two. The dual link effectively doubles the power of transmission and provides an increase of speed and signal quality; i.e. a single link 60-Hz LCD can display a resolution of 1920 x 1080,
while a dual link can display a resolution of 2048 x 1536."

So a single link with support 1920x1200.

Sorry about the confusion.

[Dave23]

That's very dissappointing. I'd love to buy a 23 inch. But not being able to connect to computers and switch between the two (without having to buy an expensive DVI switchbox) is a killer. :(

[Chip NoVaMac]

Re G5 iMacs:



All thing being equal, I agree. New iMacs/iPods/whatever today would have been fun! But the world isn't watching WWDC... beyond the developers in attendance, only a select segment of Mac fans and notoriously under-informed analysts are watching WWDC. And of the people who are, only a tiny fraction of them honestly think Apple can't release something at another time than WWDC. There are some vocal anonymous complainers in Mac forums, but those few voices don't add up to much for Apple's business.

I short, I don't think there was any compelling business reason for Apple to choose WWDC for a hardware product like the iMac. There are MUCH bigger and better reasons to choose a date--manufacturing, inventory, marketing campaigns, not distracting from other things, avoiding Apple and non-Apple events what would distract from it, component costs, supplier delays, legal agreements, etc. etc.... Those all add up to SO much more than trying to please a few vocal Mac forum goers who took WWDC rumors as fact.

Don't sell short the stock market. It will be interesting to see what happens in the price. It already closed at 3.59% down from open. So I guess the world wasn't watching....

[letterbox]

Chip NoVaMac, I see some of your points however...

Here...
There are those of us that see the bigger picture. The G5 iMac would have been a great addition for us, but we are also looking towards those that are buying their first Mac.

you argue for the general person and here...
The only advantage that I see to the 20" is for us PB users is the extra FW400 port (and maybe the extra USB 2.0 port).

you preach to yourself and the PB crowd you are a part of.

That being said...iMac's today would have been welcome and for those in the bigger picture (pun kinda intended...don't shoot) the new design (aluminum, mountable...) of the displays plus the fw400 ports is worth the paying the price for what you would've paid yesterday for "old" tech.

[cr2sh]

How much was the 23" and 20" before this update? Why don't any Mac sites put up a comparison when new products come out, for those of us who don't have the product line memorized? :D

Here ya go:

[daveg5]

You sound like someone who concerned about price.

Those who buy the 30" want the best, and some combo / side-by-side, bezel down the middle, cheaper answer.. isn't going to cut it.

You've argued price.. not an issue to those people.
You've argued lcd/crt, that issue regards all lcds vs. crts, so not really valid here.

The guys who come here a lot kinda knew this was coming, what we didn't know about was the video card and the added $600. Not the best execution.. but whatever, its top of the food chain over here.

Just thinking aloud about all the options. And it seems for me that, 2-23" ($4000)are the way to go if going LCD's only.
If you dont mind the Latest Quality CRT's then you could actually get two of those and a Dual 2.5GHZ G5($1100+$3000), which I think is a viable option for many
Or even 1 23"($2000) and 1CRT($500) and a dual 1.8 G5($2000) for $4500.
So what is the best way to spend $4500 "in your opinion" assuming you still have a G3/G4 like me and a 15" display.

[FuzzyBallz]

NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL
This advanced graphics card is required for the new 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Display. $599.

OMFG, are you kidding me? And none of the new Cinemas come w/ the VESA mount adapter? This is insane!!! Well, at least they lowered the price of the ADC to DVI connector.

[virividox]

still pricey but they are great. at least now the 17 is more affordable

[MarkCollette]

This is real life, buddy. A normal, sane person would not drop down $9000 (CAD) for a computer and moniter.

:rolleyes:

Sorry, I'm not trying to nitpick, but it's CDN, not CAD.

- Mark

[Frixo Cool]

OK, all in all I'm satisfied.

The prices? Could be lower but it's ok - especially for introduction.

Design? Yes, it's not so beautiful as the last one but it's still great and better for G5 environment. I didn't like G5 tower design at first but when I saw it live... I was in love...

I'm I buying? Of course - one 30" for home and one for work with three 23" for "middle" work stations. I waited too long for this and now I don't ask too much... just give me those displays...

Nice touch - at last they matched color of the keyboard and the mouse with G5 look...

[sfoalex]

Hey Alex,

Calm down there buddy. ;)

I'm actually looking forward to getting a new 23! And maybe a dual 2.0... :D

David (formerly with lbmca-west)

Hey David!! How the heck are you?! I am calm, I guess I don't sound like it though. Pretty big displays out there now! Heck, a cheap 30" flat panel TV cost around $3,000 and I doubt it has a resolution better than 1280 x 768, so David, I think this would look very nice in your new living room.

Imagine Photoshop on this beauty!

David, I saw a picture of Final Cut Pro running on this new display. Three previews on top, the timeline in the middle, and the bin, audio mixer, and a preview bin on the bottom. Saw a picture of Jobs standing next to it. You really get an idea of the size. It's simply insanely huge. I say a guy running a huge magazine would need this huge monitor. :)

-Alex

[brittney spears]

I was just wondering if this will run on my imac dv 500 purple. it is overclocked to 500 and has a 7200 rpm drive and a gig of ram!

BTW the new displays are freaking fugly the old ones had style but these are just lame as hell.

[aswitcher]

Where the heck is the keyboard and mouse to match! :mad:


Yep, need Pro BT mouse and keyboard in metalic finish.

[Maxx Power]

This is insane. Now these monitors as as expensive or more expensive than the Eyegonomic ones, and the eyegonomic ones include all adjustments in x-y-z planes, plus they have more features and include a anti-glare glass protector infront of the actual LCD.

[Capt Underpants]

still pricey but they are great. at least now the 17 is more affordable

How is the 17" more affordable. It was $699 before, and it's $699 now. Am I missing something?

[PRØBE]

i was really hoping they wouldn't look like those skanky artist's renderings.

Seems they aren't cutting edge in brightness/contrast and besides, they are so terribly bland looking and uninspired esthetically. The build quality will likely distinguish them from your generic Dells up close but I was just hoping for something more original. Did Ives design those things? Perhaps he ought to change his name to Jonathon Le Corbusier.

Here's hoping for an un-Dell-like iMac G5 ASAP.

[cr2sh]

How is the 17" more affordable. It was $699 before, and it's $600 now. Am I missing something?

According to the apple store I'm looking at its $699 now.

Might have been a typo on your part, I dunno.. but it still costs the same. :confused:

[letterbox]

aswitcher, or anybody else...

does BT really provide the same sensitivity and accuracy as a wired mouse?
if not, wouldn't many "pro" users prefer the wired? not to say that it isn't needed, I would love to have a BT setup.

[Capt Underpants]

For those of you complaining about ehe design or Dell-ness, of the new display, I have one thing to say: Can you do any better? Look, they may not be the best, or as innovative as most of us come to expect from a company like apple, but there's only so much you can do with a computer monitor.

[QCassidy352]

Nice smokescreen argument. As far as I can tell the monitors don't offer much more than what others are offering. No extra value or ease of use. unlike the iPods that had ease of use and unique value compared to the others. The only advantage that I see to the 20" is for us PB users is the extra FW400 port (and maybe the extra USB 2.0 port).

Did you see my earlier post? These monitors are offering roughly the same that others are offering for roughly the same price. No, it's not the bargain of the century, but all these people crying "rip off" are simply wrong. These prices are right around the industry standard for this quality display.

[sfoalex]

This is insane. Now these monitors as as expensive or more expensive than the Eyegonomic ones, and the eyegonomic ones include all adjustments in x-y-z planes, plus they have more features and include a anti-glare glass protector infront of the actual LCD.

And what is their resolution?

That is what is important here. Anyone can buy a 30" screen for cheap. Heck you buy a projector and project to 30" for less than a $1,000.00. The issue here is how much screen real-estate do I get. Think about the compositors that use After Effects for example. The timelines open from top to bottom, and we always need multiples open at once. This causes us to constantly adjust the view up and down.

What about the people using Combustion, Shake, or the people using Flint on something other than a Macintosh. Remember, this is not ADC, so this monitor is no longer specific to Apple customers. It is clearly a monitor designed for a larger, more professional audience. If you don't fit that description, you would not likely care about this monitor. Not everything Apple makes is designed for all of Apple's customers. Apple does have varying audiences to cater to.

[Capt Underpants]

According to the apple store I'm looking at its $699 now.

Might have been a typo on your part, I dunno.. but it still costs the same. :confused:

It was a typo. STUPID KEYBOARD MAKERS MADE THE 9 AND THE 0 TOO CLOSE!!!! ;)

It's fixed now.

[sfwalter]

macwarehouse.com shows a ship date of the 20" in 4-6 days. Do you think this is true? I find it odd, since Apple's online store shows 2-4 weeks..

[reyesmac]

With these new high prices, the price I am willing to pay for an LCD from any one of their competitors (I am leaning towards the Sony) has just gone up. Paying a grand for a big ol' LCD doesn't sound so bad now. I plan to buy 2 LCD's within a year of each other and it would be easier to do that if I actually saved money when I bought them. I think Apple did not know I was planning to do that so they just left the prices the same.

[Spagolli94]

I fully agree. Viewsonic, here I come! Way too much premium to pay so that the design matchs my G5 which sits under my desk...

I bought a Princeton 19" a few months back I did. I wasn't going to pay twice as much for 1 more inch. While not as elegant as the Apple displays, it matches my Powerbook quite well.

[brittney spears]

For those of you complaining about ehe design or Dell-ness, of the new display, I have one thing to say: Can you do any better? Look, they may not be the best, or as innovative as most of us come to expect from a company like apple, but there's only so much you can do with a computer monitor.

Only so much what do you mean the old apple LCD's looked absolutly cool. there are no other monitors that even come close to the origionality that the old ones have.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Chip NoVaMac, I see some of your points however...

Here...


you argue for the general person and here...


you preach to yourself and the PB crowd you are a part of.

That being said...iMac's today would have been welcome and for those in the bigger picture (pun kinda intended...don't shoot) the new design (aluminum, mountable...) of the displays plus the fw400 ports is worth the paying the price for what you would've paid yesterday for "old" tech.

I wouldn't have bought the "old tech" unless I bought a PM G5 before the announcement. And if I were to buy for my PB, I would not pay the price for the new ones just to get an extra USB and FW port.

Now if I were to buy a PM G5, I would keep my VESA attachment LCD VA520 from Viewsonic, or buy one of the better priced third party monitors.

[rdrr]

With the price of the 30" you got to expect them to be marketed to companies...

But has anyone thought about how much desk real estate this monster takes? :eek: I don't think I can fit it into my tiny cube. :p

[sfoalex]

With the price of the 30" you got to expect them to be marketed to companies...

But has anyone thought about how much desk real estate this monster takes? :eek: I don't think I can fit it into my tiny cube. :p

You'll just have to get a bigger desk!

:)

[Abstract]

I'm stunned... but not by the displays, by the response of you babies.

80% of the posts in this thread amount to nothing more than "boo... I can't afford that." Guess what, this is bleeding edge.. if you don't like it take a step backwards.

Since when is $7k for the fastest machine and nicest monitor complaint worthy? This isn't pre-school, kiddies.

:rolleyes:
Agreed. What were people expecting? Were they expecting magic displays? These new displays are already better than the old displays and the frame now matches your precious G5s. No, the specs aren't the best displays in the entire world, but the 23" displays are priced competitively with others offering similar specs and size. Nobody is forcing you to buy these displays, but I'm quite surprised that so many of you whiners actually waited 6 months for a display. Seriously, they're displays. Apple doesn't have some magic wand that would allow them to make displays that offer 2x better specs that make them worth a 6 to 12 month wait.

[Abstract]

I'm fairly new to the Mac community...I bought my first Mac (a 2.0 PowerMac G5) last Fall. I've been waiting to buy a nice 23" display since then, I've done some price comparisons, and it looks like the new Mac displays aren't too high at all. Comparatively, the Viewsonic VP230MB is $2500 and the Sony SDM/P232 is $2100.

Are there others out there in the same class as these 3?

You're confused by the whining because you're new here. You're right, Apple's displays are competitive. People are just stressed because Apple isn't selling their displays CHEAPER than everyone else, and so they say its a ripoff when in fact its quite similarly priced to competitors.

You're looking at the situation with fresh, innocent eyes. That'll change. :p

[Chip NoVaMac]

You're confused by the whining because you're new here. You're right, Apple's displays are competitive. People are just stressed because Apple isn't selling their displays CHEAPER than everyone else, and so they say its a ripoff when in fact its quite similarly priced to competitors.

You're looking at the situation with fresh, innocent eyes. That'll change. :p

Just that a $999 for the 20" and $1599-1699 would have been better price points overall. The 23" less so than the 20".

[trbeat]

This whole monitor / wwdc is crazy. People complaining about prices and products released, I can just hear the crowd now as Steve releases a new ipod, a G5 at 3Ghz, new Imac sporting a G5, Tivo Like device running OS X, Powerbooks 2 mm thick running a G5 and new monitors all at 50% previous price, oh and a new OS that doesn't suck longhorn .... "Oh what am I going to buy, so may options to many choices, thats just not fair Steve .... "

Ive been to a few Microsoft events and the best they give you is a fix to Excel 95 and an OS update in 3 years time whenever there programmers learn to program ..

Just my 2 cents ...

[Chip NoVaMac]

You're confused by the whining because you're new here. You're right, Apple's displays are competitive. People are just stressed because Apple isn't selling their displays CHEAPER than everyone else, and so they say its a ripoff when in fact its quite similarly priced to competitors.

You're looking at the situation with fresh, innocent eyes. That'll change. :p

Given that one can get a Viewsonic 17" wide-screen HDTV with monitor capabilities for $699, it is not far fetched to expect a non-HDTV 20' wide-screen for $999 from Apple.

[Chip NoVaMac]

This whole monitor / wwdc is crazy. People complaining about prices and products released, I can just hear the crowd now as Steve releases a new ipod, a G5 at 3Ghz, new Imac sporting a G5, Tivo Like device running OS X, Powerbooks 2 mm thick running a G5 and new monitors all at 50% previous price, oh and a new OS that doesn't suck longhorn .... "Oh what am I going to buy, so may options to many choices, thats just not fair Steve .... "

Ive been to a few Microsoft events and the best they give you is a fix to Excel 95 and an OS update in 3 years time whenever there programmers learn to program ..

Just my 2 cents ...

You would rather hear grousing about no iMac G5 or a TIVO device, or new iPods?

Being a developers conference, I can't see them getting excited over doing software for a new monitor. Tiger yes, monitors no. A new iMac G5 to offer better performance for software bloat, a real YES.

[mania]

for those of you complaining about prices and HD not being in the 20 should look at apples requirement to use HD - a device from eCinema that costs $8000!!!

anyways i think the displays look great, are very lightweight, and are priced pretty good compared to competition but not to my wallet.

[frem001]

The new displays are nice and everything, but Apple does really suck for not putting out an G5-based iMac. Although I'm not in the market for an iMac, it doesn't really have anything positive to say for Apple's R/D team, when all that they have to offer are just new displays.

I mean c'mon. As of today, the G5 has been out for a year and still no other machine with a G5, even a single G5! Now, this does pose the question, about a previous thread referencing nearly depleted iMacs; they could be around the corner.

No iMac G5, no new iPod with photo/video capabilities?! I don't think SJ has been taking his testosterone supplements, where are his cojones?!

These updates are lame! What is up with Apple?

Tiger being 64-bit is great news, but shipping at the first HALF of 2005? What is going on?

I guess this will have to do, since going back to Micro$sux is NOT an option. Mac users have once again taken it up the dérière without any Vaseline.

What pisses me off the most is when people say i don't need a g5 (yeah your g4 will do just fine blah blah blah) processor, i'm a student (therefore certain items are just out of reach even with edu discount) I use photoshop, i have a 6mp canon slr, i use cad... for me to have to wait so long for photo's to load up on iphoto or photoshop is ridiculous. My time is precious too, I need to get in and do my work without waiting for long loading times. I can't do this with items that (as perfect as they are) are so costly.... I can wait for os updates but a fast processor and good screen from the same company for a realistic price is not too much to ask. £4000 is just too much (g5 2.5ghz + 23inch). I would go some where else, but somewhere else sucks (and even if the hardware is cheaper the software will slow me down even more than a g4 with all those damn pop ups and viruses and errors and don't get me started on the **** layout)

[CompuDude]

Why do people insist on comparing apples to oranges? Yes, you can get 20" LCDs for under $1k... but those are not widescreen displays. Ditto for 23" displays... compare high end widescreens from Sony, Viewsonic, and others to these new 20 and 23" widescreen LCDs, and make sure you are looking at the ones with the same resolution or better, and suddenly it will be obvious that Apple's prices for these new 20 and 23" widescreen LCDs is actually right spot on with the rest of the industry. Comparing them to cheaper 20" 4:3 ratio displays is not an accurate comparison.

The 30" display is *very* expensive. It's also (a) the only game in town, and (b) frankly reasonably priced if you look to other 30" LCD displays... which currently only exist in the high end television market and which are not really suitable for use as a computer display, unlike these. Complain all you want that you can't afford a 60" plasma TV for your living room, but that doesn't stop the companies that have a real need for these displays from forking out the dough. and it does not make Samsung and others "stupid" (or any of the other colorful adjectives I've seen used in this thread) for charging what they do. Again, just because *YOU* can't afford it does not mean the company is actually trying to gouge it's customers, or for that matter, it doesn't mean the company is doing something wrong by charging a price that lets it make a profit from it's sales.

If you can't afford these displays, then you can't afford the competitive displays either. Whining about the price because you can't afford it or you would rather spend less on a cheaper, and slightly lesser, option, is just silly. Why not whine that BMW's cars are too expensive because a Ford Taurus SHO is *almost* as fast and it's all you can afford, so BMW sucks for making high end toys you can't afford. Get over it.

Finally, complaining about the video card requirement for the 30" display is just silly. There are only a couple video cards capable of cranking out the resolution this display requires. That's not Apple's fault... blaming nVidia and ATI for not making cards that can output this kind of resolution for $99. Or, realize that the display is so nice that it requires a top of the line video card to push every pixel it has to offer. Video card pricing will come down over time, but meanwhile, $600 for a top of the line end video card from either ATI or nVidia is not far from par for the course. Similar arguments apply to complaints that the card is double-wide and you lose a PCI slot. Because the same thing happens on the PC side of the fence when you use one of these top-of-the-line cards... it's ATI and nVidia's fault, not Apple's, that the only cards they currently make capable of driving such a high resolution display take up so much space.

Apples to apples, people. Remember the magic words: "Widescreen" "Dual-Link DVI" and "2560x1600 pixel resolution" (or "1920x1200"). Match apples to apples, and oranges to oranges, and THEN come back and complain... if you still can.

[CholEoptera36]

Who gives a rat's ___ about "widescreen" anyway. It's only good for a few certain things. Personally I find it harder to perform tasks on computers with widescreen cause it's more head moving then eye moving... if you follow that. (especially if you got in the 30" range)

[blackcrayon]

Who gives a rat's ___ about "widescreen" anyway. It's only good for a few certain things. Personally I find it harder to perform tasks on computers with widescreen cause it's more head moving then eye moving... if you follow that. (especially if you got in the 30" range)

I don't know about you, but my eyes are installed in my head in a "wide screen" configuration. Thank you apple for taking advantage of perhipheral vision (pun intended) ;)

[ogun7]

If you can't afford these displays, then you can't afford the competitive displays either. Whining about the price because you can't afford it or you would rather spend less on a cheaper, and slightly lesser, option, is just silly. Why not whine that BMW's cars are too expensive because a Ford Taurus SHO is *almost* as fast and it's all you can afford, so BMW sucks for making high end toys you can't afford. Get over it. ...

Apples to apples, people. Remember the magic words: "Widescreen" "Dual-Link DVI" and "2560x1600 pixel resolution" (or "1920x1200"). Match apples to apples, and oranges to oranges, and THEN come back and complain... if you still can.

Thanx CompuDude. Soon we'll start hearing them complain that it's Apple's fault they don't have the money to but the crap.

Look, being a technofetishist is an expensive hobby. If you can't afford it, collect stamps.

[CholEoptera36]

I don't know about you, but my eyes are installed in my head in a "wide screen" configuration. Thank you apple for taking advantage of perhipheral vision (pun intended) ;)

Lmao, Apple's not the only one with widescreen so I wasn't directing a cut on them only... All widescreen in general. It's good for movies but that's what my TV is for, without the extra money spent on a monitor doing the same. And honestly the bigger the monitor the further your icons and apps are spread apart, especially in those resolutions. How far away would you have to sit from a 50" widescreen monitor to use the computer... 10 feet maybe? like I said more head moving then eye moving...think about it. Wide screen really isn't that much of a plus to me is all I was saying, the company has nothing to do with it. ;)

[reyesmac]

I am not talking about price, I am talking about resolution and screen space. I just might get an Apple at 1680x1050 instead of a sony at 1600 x 1200. I tried to see what the res would be like on the sony using my 19" CRT at home, they are both the same dimensions so I can get a good representation of how small the type would end up. I do not like it. The type is too small. I will need to see the Apple display in person but I think it might be better for my eyes and the way I like things to be size-wise.

[nsb3000]

still pricey but they are great. at least now the 17 is more affordable

The 17 did not go down in price. It has always been $699, about $300 too expensive IMO...

[Abstract]

You have to balance some of the specs at times to see if its worth it for you. Some may have higher contrast, but slower response times, for example.

Its hard to find a competitors display that offers the same:

-widescreen display
-contrast
-brightness
-response time (16ms!!!)
-pixel pitch
-design

as Apple LCD displays for the same price. You can say that Sony/Viewsonic offers an LCD with higher contrast/brightness for a similar price, but they don't offer something that Apple offers, whether its widescreen, design, or response time. Now, I believe that paying $500 more for design is dumb, but the other factors may be worth it for many. And since its so similarly priced, Apple's balance of spec values may be what someone is looking for. If you don't want widescreen or care if the response time is 16ms (ie: your old monitor didn't offer such a response time and you didn't notice or care), then you can go with someone elses monitor for cheaper.

Otherwise, shut yer holes and enjoy what Apple has offered. I don't walk into a Porsche dealership and complain that after 2 years, their new model Porsches haven't gotten any cheaper. Apple doesn't make these displays for my mom and dad. Those of you who think you're pro, or dabble in this software or that software, don't actually NEED the 30" display. I'm going to guess that only a few percent of MR members actually need displays of such calibre, while the rest think you do. But if you truly did require such specs, you wouldn't have flinched and would have purchased one by now. You want it, but you're unimpressed because its not priced to be a mass consumer product. But hey, neither is a Porsche.

[må¥å]

Displays are nice, it looks more pro than the previous models. Remember the first gen 15inch LCD from apple sort of same idea however in plastic and it had a height adjustable arm seems this generation of lcd is missing that, also missing is the option to switch from landscape to portrait view. SAD really was looking forward to that feature even though you you view 2 pages of text side-by-side.

The prices are fine for current however it will drop so if you really want one of these displays just hold off for a year to a year and a half when the industry catches up the price will drop due to competition.

Other companies that are not well known can make displays that are 20-23inches and charge less since they brand is not well known and they buy the rights just like Apple however it all has to do with design, brand, packaging, and support.

People will always complain (human nature), don't bother to respond to those posts. People will also be mistaken and a little searching on the Apple site should answer all those questions.

Now where are the matching keyboard and mouse, DAM YOU APPLE. ;) :D

Hey I did say I have to complain about something hehe.

[Downdivx]

Lmao, Apple's not the only one with widescreen so I wasn't directing a cut on them only... All widescreen in general. It's good for movies but that's what my TV is for, without the extra money spent on a monitor doing the same. And honestly the bigger the monitor the further your icons and apps are spread apart, especially in those resolutions. How far away would you have to sit from a 50" widescreen monitor to use the computer... 10 feet maybe? like I said more head moving then eye moving...think about it. Wide screen really isn't that much of a plus to me is all I was saying, the company has nothing to do with it. ;)

Your icons are just farther apart? If that's your complaint about a monitor this size, you don't need one. These monitors are for professionals - there is plenty of value in this big of a monitor to a graphics designer, video editor, and many other professionals who need every inch of landscape we can afford.

You have to sit far away from a 50" widescreen TV monitor because the resolution remains the same as the size gets bigger - thus you have to maintain the same distance ratio to the size of the monitor so your eyes won't see individual pixels. These monitors increase in resolution as they increase in size - so you can sit the same distance away from a 12" or a 30". You're increasing the usable real estate, not just getting a bigger monitor to brag about. I'll take a 50" monitor anyday - assuming the resolution fits the size! When Apple makes a 50" display I'll be able to have HD preview and program windows, a 3 foot timeline, color correction, vectorscope, 8 reel bins, all the available effects and transitions and who knows what else all open at the same time.

And I'm not just defending Apple here, I'm defending all big, widescreen monitors! You're not the only one out there using this monitor and assuming that you are and that no one has another use besides you is just SILLY!

W

:)

[frem001]

What pisses me off the most is when people say i don't need a g5 (yeah your g4 will do just fine blah blah blah) processor, i'm a student (therefore certain items are just out of reach even with edu discount) I use photoshop, i have a 6mp canon slr, i use cad... for me to have to wait so long for photo's to load up on iphoto or photoshop is ridiculous. My time is precious too, I need to get in and do my work without waiting for long loading times. I can't do this with items that (as perfect as they are) are so costly.... I can wait for os updates but a fast processor and good screen from the same company for a realistic price is not too much to ask. £4000 is just too much (g5 2.5ghz + 23inch). I would go some where else, but somewhere else sucks (and even if the hardware is cheaper the software will slow me down even more than a g4 with all those damn pop ups and viruses and errors and don't get me started on the **** layout)

Just checked the prices for the speakers that apple offers (logitech z680 on the logitech website) they cost £50 more than the apple store and I definatly couldn't find a screen that is comparble to the cinema dislpays... and those complaining about the resolution should read apples website... 100 pixels per inch is the perfect resolution for the eye, i agree my dad has a sony vaio with a 16 in screen and similer resolution to the 20 inch and it is really difficult to see anything... well i have cooled down and even though the displays and g5 are expensive they're ace.... the quick time pic with the keyvoard and mouse is white they may have adjusted the picture so it suits the aluminium g5 and display... shame about that... the system you get some how seems incomplete without the matching peripherals.

[CholEoptera36]

You're not the only one out there using this monitor and assuming that you are and that no one has another use besides you is just SILLY!

W

:)

Riiiiiiiiiiight....... I must have said I was the only one using them... NOT. And I'm intitled to my own opinion about over excessively large monitors.

AfterThought - Increase in resolution doesn't mean it's the same for a 30" on your eyes as it is to view a 20". That's just silly. The bigger the monitor size, the larger the resolution. The larger the resolution, the smaller things appear on the monitor. That's in addition to adding size to the display... Would you say it's the same to view 800x600 on say a 12" as viewing it on a 30" display, no matter what the resolution is on the 30? The bigger the size of the display in combination with increased resolution means things ARE spread further apart and smaller. What's the difference between 1024x768 and 800x600? The 1024x768 displays everything much smaller and spread apart further. The more you increase resolution that happens. And having a larger monitor vows for that to be increased even more.

[themacman]

I am prety pissed about the imac G5 because i am in hte market is there a posibility it could be at the Expo in france?

[Downdivx]

Riiiiiiiiiiight....... I must have said I was the only one using them... NOT. And I'm intitled to my own opinion about over excessively large monitors.

AfterThought - Increase in resolution doesn't mean it's the same for a 30" on your eyes as it is to view a 20". That's just silly.


Quite correct, you are entitled to your opinion. However, to go to a forum and complain because a new monitor is too large and you have to move your head and eyes too much is silly.

W

[Arael]

Why do people insist on comparing apples to oranges? Yes, you can get 20" LCDs for under $1k... but those are not widescreen displays. Ditto for 23" displays... compare high end widescreens from Sony, Viewsonic, and others to these new 20 and 23" widescreen LCDs, and make sure you are looking at the ones with the same resolution or better, and suddenly it will be obvious that Apple's prices for these new 20 and 23" widescreen LCDs is actually right spot on with the rest of the industry. Comparing them to cheaper 20" 4:3 ratio displays is not an accurate comparison.


The HP 23in is around $1700 with the same LCD spec.
Well, I guess for some people the apple logo and
the firewire/usb hubs are worth $300.
I just hate that it has only a single input.

[CholEoptera36]

Quite correct, you are entitled to your opinion. However, to go to a forum and complain because a new monitor is too large and you have to move your head and eyes too much is silly.

W

Added a little more to it incase you missed it. And lots of people have complained in this thread about the monitors from many different aspects. It's not silly, this happens in all forums.

[cr2sh]

Added a little more to it incase you missed it. And lots of people have complained in this thread about the monitors from many different aspects. It's not silly, this happens in all forums.

No.. you see, complaining that a 30" display is too big, is silly.

It is.

No seriously, it is.

It's as if you missed the entire point. :)

[paulypants]

What pisses me off the most is when people say i don't need a g5 (yeah your g4 will do just fine blah blah blah) processor, i'm a student (therefore certain items are just out of reach even with edu discount) I use photoshop, i have a 6mp canon slr, i use cad... for me to have to wait so long for photo's to load up on iphoto or photoshop is ridiculous. My time is precious too, I need to get in and do my work without waiting for long loading times. I can't do this with items that (as perfect as they are) are so costly.... I can wait for os updates but a fast processor and good screen from the same company for a realistic price is not too much to ask. £4000 is just too much (g5 2.5ghz + 23inch). I would go some where else, but somewhere else sucks (and even if the hardware is cheaper the software will slow me down even more than a g4 with all those damn pop ups and viruses and errors and don't get me started on the **** layout)

I don't think your very unique in that you use photoshop and take digital photos etc etc--I am in the same situation as you and I am on a Dual G4
tower--I have no 'long loading times' as you described. You do NOT need a G5 for photoshop and taking digital photos, although you may WANT one.

[Cooknn]

I believe Bose makes a desktop speaker system that looks very compatible with the current design of the g5's and new monitors. I haven't seen 'em up close but online they looked quite similar.I've got em. They fit perfect with my G5, iSight, etc. Take a look a the Bose Companion 3 Speakers (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-0qE1AwxV7D1/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&cc=01&g=12800&id=morephotos&i=018COMP3&pi=2&display=XL#Tab) they ROCK :D

[Chaywa]

I must say I find myself in the middle on this issue of the new displays. I don't hate them like some seem to but I am also not convinced they are all a good deal. Kind of like when the G5s came out and the 2.0 was the only good deal cause the single cpu's lagged. I think the 20" may not be a good deal compared to other monitors out there but the 23 is comparably priced with added looks and features. Let's not forget these things are framed in aluminum not cheap plastic. There is a premium for style.

I think apple has done well design wise again. They took the look of the G5 and made it a good looking display. To those who are cursing the looks of the new display, remember how many hated the look of the G5 until they saw it in person. Give it a chance. If you still don't like it after seeing it in person, then I bet you also dislike the G5 and neither is for you. The dual 2.0 sitting next to me looks pretty darn good.

I have watched these sites for over a year now and this is my first post. I was in the market for a new display and thanks to this site I knew to hold off and see apple's new offering before I made my decision. I have a hunch that a lot of people who are complaining are not even in the market for a display and were only hoping they would get an insanely great price cut so they could be in the market. For those like me who are serious about buying a new pro-quality display, good luck comparison shopping and enjoy the purchase.

[ffakr]

congrats to apple....it is now once again possible to spend over 15,000 dollars on a single workstation without buying any "accessory" upgrades.

strictly speaking,

dual G5 2.5
load the RAM
dual 30" monitors (along w/obligatory gfx card upgrade)
dual 250gig HDDs

I didn't even have to add a fibre-channel card to get it over 15K.

amazing.

I'm lost, is that a snipe? Are you shocked that it costs a lot for a cutting edge desktop w/ 8 Gigs of ram, half a TB of drive, and 2 High Def 30" monitors?

i wonder how clocked-down the 6800 is going to be?It's an Ultra. That means it should be as fast as any other Ultra (though it could be faster). Each grade of the card follows a frequence set by Nvidia. If Apple release a lower clocked chip, they couldn't call it an Ultra.

[Cooknn]

Let's not forget these things are framed in aluminum not cheap plastic.Excellent point. Since I got my G5, I can't see myself buying a plastic monitor (I'm still hanging with my Viewsonic CRT). I think I'm gonna have to spring for the 23". Guess the new carpet for my condo will have to wait :p

[ffakr]

AfterThought - Increase in resolution doesn't mean it's the same for a 30" on your eyes as it is to view a 20". That's just silly. The bigger the monitor size, the larger the resolution. The larger the resolution, the smaller things appear on the monitor. That's in addition to adding size to the display... Would you say it's the same to view 800x600 on say a 12" as viewing it on a 30" display, no matter what the resolution is on the 30? The bigger the size of the display in combination with increased resolution means things ARE spread further apart and smaller. What's the difference between 1024x768 and 800x600? The 1024x768 displays everything much smaller and spread apart further. The more you increase resolution that happens. And having a larger monitor vows for that to be increased even more.

No, your logic is shaky at best.
You are interchanging two concepts.. resolution in total pixels and resolution in pixel density.. dpi [dots per inch]
the resolution [dpi] on monitors (CRTs) was pretty much set between 72 and 75 dots per inch for a LONG time. Larger monitors simply supported higher resolutions. A 32 pixel wide icon on a 72 dpi 15" monitor is EXACTLY THE SAME SIZE as a 32 pixel wide icon on a 72 dpi 20" monitor. EXACTLY because it's dots per inch.. so the icon is precisely 32/72 inches wide.

If you don't run the monitor at the native resolution, you WILL have a lower dpi but people don't often run LCDs at non-native resolutions because the interpolation makes them look fuzzy and crappy. Do you expect anyone to buy a 30" Apple LCD and run it at 800x600 resolution? Not unless they are rich AND nearly blind.

Now, the 30" (and the 23") ARE a higher resolution [dpi], but not because of the reason you think. They are a higher resolution because they are intentionally designed to be 100 dpi. They are, after all, high definition monitors. I believe SGI made (or makes) a 200dpi LCD.
That doesn't mean that a monitor MUST have a higher resolution [dpi] just because it is larger surface area. The resolution [total pixels] is determined by dpi x the dimensions of the screen. It's not the number of pixels or the physical dimensions of the screen that determine how small stuff looks and how far apart stuff on the screen appears to be.. it's the resolution [dpi].

[ffakr]

macwarehouse.com shows a ship date of the 20" in 4-6 days. Do you think this is true? I find it odd, since Apple's online store shows 2-4 weeks..
I believe that Apple's web store bases ship times dynamically from past shipping info.. That is it watches the shipping trend then gives you a number. Whenever a machine/device/software is released, the initial ship time is always some generic default like 2-4 weeks or 4-6 weeks, but that number often changes significantly if the product is actually in stock to ship when announced.

So, it may take 2-4 weeks to ship, or it may ship tomorrow from Apple. You can't trust the shipping times on new apple products.

[ffakr]

slightly unrelated:

this thread is bringing out a lot of lurkers and switchers..
welcome to the forum. Don't get to stressed by the bickering.. we all really love each other [unless you don't agree with my clearly relevent and accurate posts] ;-)

[ffakr]

NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL
This advanced graphics card is required for the new 30-inch Apple Cinema HD Display. $599.

OMFG, are you kidding me? And none of the new Cinemas come w/ the VESA mount adapter? This is insane!!! Well, at least they lowered the price of the ADC to DVI connector.

Are you serious? The resolution on the 30" monitor is so high that a DVI (or ADC) connector doesn't have enough bandwidth to drive them. It's impossible to run them without the special Apple video card because no normal video cards can drive this display.
We'll find out soon enough, but I'm guessing that each DVI channel is rendering part of the desktop.. they probably interlace on the monitor.
They may have gone with NVidia because Nvidia is doing a lot of work with interlaced video again.
I'm not sure what you mean by the monitors don't come with a "VESA mount adapter". The monitors come with a VESA mount plate so you can attach a VESA compliant mount to them. What is a "mount adapter"? You aren't expecting Apple to ship them with a VESA compliant arm are you? I mean, I'd have to say 'OMFG, Are you Serious?' if you were pissed because apple isn't supplying an arm with them. I mean, people buy arms to fit their work enviorment. They shouldn't be cookie cutter, they should fit your setup. Also, most people wouldn't use an arm so it'd be a hell of a waste to bundle them.

[Cooknn]

I've got the 64MB ATI Radeon 9600 Pro in my G5 Dual 2Ghz. Can it even drive the 23" to 1920x1200? I don't need a dual DVI card but would like a 256MB card to beef this thing up. Recommendations?

[Bhennies]

I am prety pissed about the imac G5 because i am in hte market is there a posibility it could be at the Expo in france?Seems to me that the elimination of the 17" display is a sure sign of Apple's product marketing plans. If you want a smaller display than a 20"- you're a CONSUMER in their view and thus must buy an imac. 20", 23" and 30" are for pros only. They're obviously trying to build an even larger bridge between their product lines, which I fear may backfire- UNLESS...(cue headless imac rumor here).

[nagromme]

I like all the posts that say:

"Brand X has feature XXXXX just like Apple's display, and they cost $200 less!"

They find ONE, maybe a couple specs that match Apple's and suddenly all the OTHER specs--like pixel resolution as a common example!--don't matter :D

The logic: I found a display that's not as good as Apple's, and it's cheaper. But there is something in common in the specs, so I will call Apple's displays a rip-off :D

[Capt Underpants]

For all of you who don't like the look of the apple displays on the Apple website, I highly suggest you watch the WWDC keynote. I have to say that, at first, the displays didn't please me, but after watching the keynote and seeing them on stage, my opinion has changed. I can't wait until I get to see the displays in person. I'm sure they will be breathtaking. Here's hoping for a Christmas price drop so I can get one.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I like all the posts that say:

"Brand X has feature XXXXX just like Apple's display, and they cost $200 less!"

They find ONE, maybe a couple specs that match Apple's and suddenly all the OTHER specs--like pixel resolution as a common example!--don't matter :D

The logic: I found a display that's not as good as Apple's, and it's cheaper. But there is something in common in the specs, so I will call Apple's displays a rip-off :D

i love those that will defend Apple to the death for flawed logic. Today's announcements were met by a 3.59% decline in Apple stock. Obviously many others were hoping for a bit more.

[johnnypark1]

Does anyone know if the new displays are in the Apple stores? I'd like to see a 23" in person before I plop down $1700.

Thanks.

[Rower_CPU]

...
Today's announcements were met by a 3.59% decline in Apple stock. Obviously many others were hoping for a bit more.

Actually, this is typical of Apple stock, regardless of what they release - a common phrase is "buy the rumor, sell the news (read: keynote)" when discussing Apple fluctuations around big events.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Actually, this is typical of Apple stock, regardless of what they release - a common phrase is "buy the rumor, sell the news (read: keynote)" when discussing Apple fluctuations around big events.

Wish the resources I found could have given me a better indication. But I am sure there is someone here that could say what the Apple stock did last year after the keynote.

It is my impression that the watchers were hoping for something better than new displays.

[jsw]

I apologize if this has been asked previously (I was away on a waste of a business trip and missed the keynote - and have tried to catch up on the posts):

Is it possible, using the 6800 and adapters, to connect 3 or 4 non-30" monitors? Or, I suppose, a 30" and two smaller ones? The dual dual DVI suggests that, although the dual ports obviously imply a need for adapters (if "dual DVI" -> "two single DVI" adapters actually exist).

I ask only because I'm not a fan of dual monitors. I hate either having to put one off to the side or having the gap between them at the center of my vision. I'd rather have one (as I do now) or three.

This is a hypothetical question for me, as I can afford neither the 6800 nor additional monitors now, but I was curious if anyone knew the answer.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Does anyone know if the new displays are in the Apple stores? I'd like to see a 23" in person before I plop down $1700.

Thanks.

I think the keynote said 3 to 4 weeks.