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blakespot
Jul 17, 2002, 10:57 AM
Well, MWNY 2002 has drawn to a close. We saw a good number of offerings from Apple. In short:
<ul>
<li> New 17" iMac w/ GeForce 4MX and 17" cinematic screen (1440x900)
<li> 10GB iPod gets solid state wheel, 10% thinner, tethered remote, case, new firmware
<li> New 20GB iPod with same as above
<lI> iPod prices: 5GB = $290, 10GB = $399, 20GB = $499. "Extras" (remote, etc.) can be purchased for all iPods for $39
<li> New apps: iSync (phone sync), iCal, iTunes 3, Sherlock 3, enhanced Mail and Address Book
<lI> OS X 10.2 Jaguar ships August 24 (early) for $129
</ul>
See our play-by-play of the expo (http://www.macrumors.com/mwny02.html) for detailed info.
As suspected, no new PowerMacs. That are rumored to be released in August. Keeping in mind the fact that Apple cannot work miracles every six months, we think this was a pretty good show. The iMac becomes far more appealing and we've got lots of new apps to play with. Check Apple's site (http://www.apple.com).

lucs
Jul 17, 2002, 11:08 AM
wow this is all great!!! WTG apple

but alas, no new powermacs :(

bbarnhart
Jul 17, 2002, 11:10 AM
I think the crowd attending the show were very disappointed.

drastik
Jul 17, 2002, 11:11 AM
well crap, I can't find anything on the new iApps on the site, maybe they are still updating.:rolleyes:

Sublime
Jul 17, 2002, 11:11 AM
I am a bit surprised at the lack off hardware refreshing...

Mausabiest
Jul 17, 2002, 11:13 AM
I hoped that there would be new Powermacs but again no Powermacs just like in January. Hope Apple will do something soon. New software o.k. but I was expecting a little bit more.

djniche
Jul 17, 2002, 11:13 AM
really good applications
i was impressed by the rendezvous and jaguar complete
but 129 as a price? a little too much dont you think.

that new Imac looks decent now to work on with the widescreen 17!

PowerMacs coming august - just a month wait.

King Cobra
Jul 17, 2002, 11:13 AM
Honestly, I am extremely disappointed, since I could not see 99% of the broadcast.

On the other hand, I like the iPod update, the iTunes update and the Jaguar update. However, I don't like the idea of a widescreen iMac. To me, it just looks disgusting. On a Powerbook it looks cool. Aside a PowerMac it looks cool. But on an iMac just looks...awful.

I realize that Apple cannot bring forth PowerMacs every six months, but from what I have read there was not even a freakin ANNOUNCEMENT about newer PowerMacs coming soon. THAT and the fact that IF the new models have DDR-RAM, the Macs were not released at a big event, for a big product, are what got me startled.

I still hold my predictions for the PowerMac speeds/specs for August, assuming they are released then.

TyleRomeo
Jul 17, 2002, 11:14 AM
it was a good show and now i await the August Power Macs

Sayer
Jul 17, 2002, 11:15 AM
Great ALL iDisks will close down UNLESS you cough up a bunch of money to Apple.

So if you don't pay EVERYTHING on your current iDisk gets dumped in 75 days. Woohoo way to generate revenue Apple.

http://homepage.mac.com/pasoftware/idsk-expires.jpg

How about buying my nearly worthless stock for $49 a share instead?

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 11:15 AM
no upgrade price for jagwire.
now that is the worst.
i bought g4 533's for my school and osx is not quick on them. they will have to upgrade, and that comes at a price.

17" imac is good, but 2K is above the price for a pmac w/small flatscreen, or close too it.

the imacs are pushing the high end (though they too need a speed boost)

overall, new software looks promising, though no aac which pisses me off, but hardware is what i was looking for.

poop
.

Sun Baked
Jul 17, 2002, 11:16 AM
Why should they be disappointed, they should have expected that the new Powermac would not show this time round and that Jaguar would full whack payment.

Even though everyone was hoping that wouldn't be the case.

3rdpath
Jul 17, 2002, 11:17 AM
its gonna be tough for apple to change their public persona as mainly a hardware and OS company. all these apps are nice and apple's future is gonna be diverse..so i guess that makes this a good showing.

still-i think they're really lacking in the hardware area for professionals. i can't imagine that all of those meetings with the big production houses yielded:
20 gig ipod....:D

TyleRomeo
Jul 17, 2002, 11:20 AM
ohh no, did anyone realize that iTunes 3 has no AAC support

Brent
Jul 17, 2002, 11:20 AM
The software announcements are exciting, but the paucity of hardware announcements is dissapointing.

I was hoping for at least a PowerMac announcement, and maybe some minor revisions to the notebooks.

And what the ******* are they thinking charging $129 for OS X.2?!?

TyleRomeo
Jul 17, 2002, 11:21 AM
ohh no, did anyone realize that iTunes 3 has no AAC support

ImAlwaysRight
Jul 17, 2002, 11:21 AM
All we heard is how we are getting charged for OS X.2 update, you must now pay $100/yr for iTools (which had been free), and no new PowerMacs. The only thing we got was the introduction of a 4th iMac G4 model w/17" screen and GeForce4MX which isn't a whole lot better than the GeForce2MX. It's still on 100MHz bus and no L3 cache. Performance will be virtually identical to iMac G4 800 w/15" introduced 6 months ago. Are we to call this progress? I, for one, am very disappointed with this MacWorld.

digital1
Jul 17, 2002, 11:22 AM
Overall I think the show was good. But as for the PowerMacs, I will have exercise patience. But, also, I am happy to see that the iMacs are starting to get a little boost. The education part of the store seems to be down, I want to price the new iMac for education.

cyberfunk
Jul 17, 2002, 11:23 AM
I'm still quite annoyed that there are no new PMacs... As someone said.. the major undertone of this whole keynote was: WE NEED MORE MONEY... the whole damn thing felt like a sales pitch.. felt like they were trying to milk me.. I dont like being milked.

digital1
Jul 17, 2002, 11:23 AM
correction:

Its just slow as heck...

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 11:25 AM
are the imacs available??

Horne
Jul 17, 2002, 11:28 AM
I must say I am a bit dissapointed with the little amount of hardware updates.
Also I don't like companies much who start something free, get everyone onto it, then start charging.
I KNOW this is how business works, I am a shareholder in many companies (or was until last week!), but I was feel it is slightly underhand.
So many people will have to pay now they are used to it.
Don't tell me this wasn't planned all along!

Gutted at now new PMs cos I sold my dual 800 last week in hoping for a new 1.4 GHz....But more gutted at myself than Apple.

I suppose there are a lot of nice thng to look forward to when I get a new PowerMac with (free?) Jaguar ni August.

Horne

sparkleytone
Jul 17, 2002, 11:29 AM
imacs available two weeks. i have no problem paying for jaguar. i want the dev cd anyways. i am overall happy with this show. i had it in full screen mpeg4 on my mac while in class. that is the ****. now four people in my class want a mac. one of them is a linux head. mpeg4 full screen on a 600MHz processor. he was sold. dont bitch about money. the imac was driopped $100. wtg apple. the 17" is a STEAL at 1999.

im stoked.

discolove
Jul 17, 2002, 11:30 AM
I just sent this to Apple. I'm not that happy at the moment.


Dear Mr/Miss,

I just read through the FAQ and noticed that you are going to deactivate my @mac.com email unless I pay $49.99 before 30 September.

Honestly, I've never had a single complaint about Apple before and, as soon as I've had a chance, I have always recommended your products and services to friends of mine.
Because of this my best friend and his girlfriend changed from an @hotmail.com email to a @mac.com email a couple of weeks ago. I feel quite sorry for them since their email accounts now will be deleted.

As I mentioned earlier I've never had anything bad to say about Apple but now I do. I feel deeply dissapointed and don't think that I'll ever defend Apple, as I've always done before, again.

I suppose that you will receive a lot of complaints like this and just trash my email straight away but if you decide to reply I would prefer not to have a standard reply saying that you are doing it for the customer and that you're improving the service and so on.

Best regards,
Mikael who used to be a very happy Mac user.

crazylb1
Jul 17, 2002, 11:33 AM
Man! you guys are a mess! Its like this every year though!

I realy like those new ipods! 5gb for $299, 10gb for $399 and 20gb for $499!!! Solid state scroll wheels on ten and twenty gig models plus accessories included, and on the 10g model its thinner than the other two! I think I'm finally going to join the ipod club.

But seriously did you really expect to see powertowers? I wasnt, the software looks great, and .Mac for current itools users is 49 bucks the first year. I think I'll get it, it will be very functional since I'm a college student. I looking forward to jaguar big time! And its 129 new not as an upgrade! chill out!

IndyGopher
Jul 17, 2002, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Mausabiest
I hoped that there would be new Powermacs but again no Powermacs just like in January. Hope Apple will do something soon. New software o.k. but I was expecting a little bit more.

Just like in January? .. when they released the dual 1GHz PowerMacs. You know, Apple actually does release stuff at times other than during MacWorld Keynotes.

digital1
Jul 17, 2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by gelbin
are the imacs available??

Sun Baked
Jul 17, 2002, 11:39 AM
I have a Fat Mac that was bought new, where's my "free" upgrade to OS X.

Get over the cost of buying a new copy of OS X 10.2, it's still less than keeping the window pane license up to date.

Anyway industry standard is covered in Apple's up-to-date program.

Go cry on Steven's shoulder, I'm sure he'll be happy to set you up with Dell Hell.

Forgot the :D

digital1
Jul 17, 2002, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by gelbin
are the imacs available??
------------------------------------------------------
in 2 weeks i think...

crazylb1
Jul 17, 2002, 11:42 AM
Man! you guys are a mess! Its like this every year though!

I realy like those new ipods! 5gb for $299, 10gb for $399 and 20gb for $499!!! Solid state scroll wheels on ten and twenty gig models plus accessories included, and on the 10g model its thinner than the other two! I think I'm finally going to join the ipod club.

But seriously did you really expect to see powertowers? I wasnt, the software looks great, and .Mac for current itools users is 49 bucks the first year. I think I'll get it, it will be very functional since I'm a college student. I looking forward to jaguar big time! And its 129 new not as an upgrade! chill out!

aromac
Jul 17, 2002, 11:46 AM
You know what. I hope you are right. I just recently sold my mac g4 twoer in anticipation of a new gf power mac. I was sooo excited about this keynote address and it was the first time I ever watched it. I have been a mac user for only a year. I use it for studio work running logic audio. The new 17inch imac looked nifty and I was interested that it had the gfroce 4 card. I thought. MAYBE I can use it so I can hook up a dual monitor set up so my 22 inch cinema wouldn't go to waste if I purchased the 17" imac. However, after I saw apple's homepage, the new imac still had the crappy mini VGA out...which means no dual display possibilities for me. =(. Now I plead with all of you .. why didn't he at least give a little teaser about the new g4? August is not far away? To date, has apple ever skipped a g4 release. In other words, they usually have models coming out in the beginning and middle of the year. So will this summer be the first time a new g4 doesn't come out?

I really need a powermac bad and I'm wondering if I should just go get one now..or wait until august?

AssassinOfGates
Jul 17, 2002, 11:46 AM
Sigh we have no updates to the existing iMacs, thus we are stuck with GeForce2's. The new iMac costs a mint! The powermacs - wtf are they??? At least we could of gotten a glimpse of the specs. The iTunes - no AAC audio? Not only did i MISS the webcast but now i was dissapointed in a matter of ten minutes. Oh yeah, i lost my iDisk. Great job apple! You really blew our minds.

BTW, is it just me or is SJ really losing the touch with the crowds?

moJoMR
Jul 17, 2002, 11:46 AM
Goto apple/itunes and under the feedback demand AAC.. I did, the more people that bitch that it didn't come out at macworld the better chance it will be included with the Calendar update.. I'm assuming thats what actually kept it from being released.

drastik
Jul 17, 2002, 11:59 AM
No doubt, relax.

Everybody wanted new PMacs, and we'll probably get them in August, this is the new sales stratigy, sell when ready. So get one in a month if your that desperate.

As for the iMac, good show. Apple is asking for money, they are a business, and the market is in the craper. Nothing ios free. If you don't want .mac, don't use it. I get five times the webs space and fifteen email adresses for the same price a year. Sure I don't get iDisk funtionality, but I can use Fetch to the same extents. And, its not very much money. $50 for 100mgs is cheap by todays standards. ARRRGGGHHH! people since of entitlement really pisses me off. You don't deserve anything free. You are not due anything. Your the same people who get out of college and are stunned to not make $90,000 a year off the bat.

Sorry, don't mean to fume.

I think that the essence of Apple's Switch campaign is aimed at the consumer market, so new iApps and new iMacs makes perfect since right now.

As for not exposing enterprise stuff at an expo, don't worry, I'm sure they willc all a press conference when the time comes.

iH8Quark
Jul 17, 2002, 12:04 PM
I have to say, I was _hoping_ for new powermacs, but all in all i'm really very impressed with what i see. rendezvous is incredible. so is iSync (FINALLY, somebody included phones). And Sherlock 3 is fantastic. And the Calendar!!! It's sweet! I can finally give entourage das boot.

Considering the economy, i think this macworld was pretty good. Jaguar is amazing.

NOW GIVE US THE POWERMACS!!!!!! ;)

Jam
Jul 17, 2002, 12:04 PM
All in all not too bad, but the no new powermacs is a bummer. August isn't to far away, i HOPE an update comes then.

Although, it's gonna be hard to not buy an iPod between then and now to keep myself happy. hmmm....

that iMac is looking really nice, so when the new Powermacs come, they are sure to be (fingers crossed) a major improvement in all areas. I've waited almost 2 years, one more month won't kill me.

oh, and i guess i need to buy a new cell phone now too... pain in the arse.

mnkeybsness
Jul 17, 2002, 12:06 PM
almost everyone seems to be disappointed right after macworld no matter what happens. everyone should quit their complaining because when apple releases minor hardware and major software revisions then the only thing they have left to update is the hardware that hasn't been touched in more than a half a year. maybe the powermacs in august rumor is real...

...but it's ok to complain about them charging for the ".mac" crap

Ramble
Jul 17, 2002, 12:07 PM
Hey apple, nice way to turn in to M$. You can go **** yourself for $100 a year. Thanks, now I have to switch all the email I get because I used to type in mac.com because it was easy....oh well. Hey apple....go to hell.

:mad:

iH8Quark
Jul 17, 2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by drastik
craper

I think you mean "crapper". Craper would be a variation on a french dessert.

...made of poo? :eek: :D

dolstein
Jul 17, 2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by ImAlwaysRight
The only thing we got was the introduction of a 4th iMac G4 model w/17" screen and GeForce4MX which isn't a whole lot better than the GeForce2MX. It's still on 100MHz bus and no L3 cache. Performance will be virtually identical to iMac G4 800 w/15" introduced 6 months ago. Are we to call this progress?

I guess I'm not the only one disappointed that Apple didn't move to a 133Mhz bus on the new iMac. That's really the only complaint I have with it.

Pants
Jul 17, 2002, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Sun Baked
Why should they be disappointed, they should have expected that the new Powermac would not show this time round and that Jaguar would full whack payment.

Even though everyone was hoping that wouldn't be the case.

how many keynotes has this thing been rolled out on? this is what - number 2 or three now? yes its good, but come on, 149 bucks? - a new mail? great - because the last one was quite frankly awful. sherlock3? hmmm..... iChat? are these not products already out there, most of them free on version tracker?

is apple a computer firm now or a lifestyles accessories maker? seriously, now that .mac has gone the way of 'money money money', os10.2 is expensive (and I'm locked in because 10.1.5 isnt exactly a speed demon...) I'm left feeling slighty 'had'. iPod for windows - now theres a plus point - simple because I now have the option of buying current hardware and using one of the (nice) lifestyle accessories - hey, if apple wants to start being M$, why not accept it and get the 'real thing'? What I want is a feeling I'm buying something 'current' - not paying top buck for last years (or older) tech.

theranch
Jul 17, 2002, 12:11 PM
I was very pleased with the broadcast as I watched it in mpeg4...no hiccups or drops and the quality was good! I watched with open eyes and ears with all of the rumors in the trash as not to expect something based on a rumor.
The new apps and jaguar are going to be awesome! Let's see what happens with the new powermacs whenever they get released. The only reason some of you are disappointed is that you expected product based on rumors...(and spymac was so wrong on the laptops).
iCal looks great...another reason to dump Office X huh?

eric_n_dfw
Jul 17, 2002, 12:12 PM
I understand they need $$$ (I bought more AAPL stock before the keynote got going this morning so I want them to make $$$)

But they are alienating users by not offering an upgrade price. Even MicroSuck gives rebates to upgraders. I'd pay $80 or so to upgrade, maybe $90. But to put $129 out there just so my G4/400 runs quicker and (hopefully) has scanner support?

I probably will, if I don't buy a new Mac in August or something, but it's still too much money for an upgrade.

iH8Quark
Jul 17, 2002, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Ramble
Hey apple, nice way to turn in to M$. You can go **** yourself for $100 a year. Thanks, now I have to switch all the email I get because I used to type in mac.com because it was easy....oh well. Hey apple....go to hell.

:mad:

Your email won't go away. You just won't get 10 extra MB. You're limited to 5 MB. Chill out. Mac.com email is still free, as far as I know.

drastik
Jul 17, 2002, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Ramble
Hey apple, nice way to turn in to M$. You can go **** yourself for $100 a year. Thanks, now I have to switch all the email I get because I used to type in mac.com because it was easy....oh well. Hey apple....go to hell.

:mad:

Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie!! I deserve free stuff, come one, don't be silly. PS Microsoft is the most sucessful company in history because of their business practice. Hate them because of the anti-competitive stuff, the rest is just plain Biz sense. Apple IS NOT THERE TO PLEASE OUR EVERY WHIM, IT IS A BUSINESS!:mad:

ennerseed
Jul 17, 2002, 12:15 PM
WHAAA WHAAA

Look Apple's revenues are way down, BUT I want everything for free!

I want new hardware, But I don't want to contribute to Apple's revenue to pay for R&D.

Who would have thought Apple would turn out having to need money to make stuff for me!

I hear Microsoft is giving away new apps and operating systems... lets get them!

And we can run it on our new Dell that is the same computer that they made four years ago, just faster. Dell doesn't need our extra R&D money!!!

ennerseed
Jul 17, 2002, 12:17 PM
WHAAA WHAAA

Look Apple's revenues are way down, BUT I want everything for free!

I want new hardware, But I don't want to contribute to Apple's revenue to pay for R&D.

Who would have thought Apple would turn out having to need money to make stuff for me!

I hear Microsoft is giving away new apps and operating systems... lets get them!

And we can run it on our new Dell that is the same computer that they made four years ago, just faster. Dell doesn't need our extra R&D money!!!

*keeping the mac.com email free, pop only, would keep people from being screwed though*

drastik
Jul 17, 2002, 12:17 PM
Alright, I'm confused, is iCal a part of JAguar only? I can't get info or screen shots forom the Apple site, can someone help me out here?

Caravaggio
Jul 17, 2002, 12:22 PM
would have been nice to have actually seen it, but since quicktime ran the stream WORSE than MWSF and they even yanked the link from the site...

nice way to show off the capabilities of the new and improved QT6

steve-not-jobs
Jul 17, 2002, 12:23 PM
Check the website - your e-mail, webspace etc is going unless you pay. I bought a (first time) Mac for home for OS X and all the other reasons home users like them. I changed my e-mail to mac.com to help spread the word. It's all I use iTools for - now I've got to let 250 contacts know my new (old) address. I can understand the fee, but to wipe out all the old addresses sucks.
And no upgrade fee for Jaguar - poor.
Lots of hype and expectation - bit of a let down really.

awrc
Jul 17, 2002, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by iH8Quark


Your email won't go away. You just won't get 10 extra MB. You're limited to 5 MB. Chill out. Mac.com email is still free, as far as I know.

From the .Mac FAQ:

Q: What happens to my data if I choose not to join .Mac

Following the 60-day trial period, any home pages, Backup or other files stored in iDisk and messages left on the email server will be removed.

You get 5MB with the *trial* account. That's what everybody's just been moved over to. The thing about the trial account is it's only good for 60 days (normally - looks like all existing iTools accounts have been given a 75 day trial period). After that time it goes away.

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 12:25 PM
None of my predictions happened yet, except one:

http://www.elgato.com/eyeTV/index.html

A tivo like offering.

I still expect Powermac upgrades in late August.

The iMac is a pretty good price for all it offers and the figure quoted in the live webcast keynote (viewed on G4-400 Mac OS9 QT5 Quicktime stream cablemodem).

Possibly the item of greatest note to me was conectivity with Palm and Cellphones, a feature I am likely to late adopt.

I signed up for .mac in hopes I could use it as a public FTP to RECEIVE large video files and there seems to be no way without offering your main password to users. I was hoping for a separately password accessable or even pure publis FTP spot. If I missed something. please let me know.

This way people with cripled internet access can go to a faster commection for a while and upload their videos or even large photo collections to me.

As the Mac guy I would then act as the worldwide server of the data to all qualified users.

Rocketman

He got applause and nothing flew off the stage! He must be stoked!

:cool:

backspinner
Jul 17, 2002, 12:29 PM
AirPort Software Base Station now included!

robinfly
Jul 17, 2002, 12:32 PM
Hihi, I'm delurking :D *wave*

Didn't it strike you all as odd that Steve and Phil conducted that Address Book demonstration with the Bluetooth-enabled phones, a feature that no currently available mac will be able to use? I was certain that we'd see some sort of huge Bluetooth announcement, but it never came.

I hope they offer something like a Bluetooth / AirPort combo card instead of just that sloppy USB wart for Bluetooth connectivity. Grrrr, I was soooo hoping for something like a 2 button, Bluetooth wireless scrollwheel mouse! Guess I need to get my head out of the clouds.

theranch
Jul 17, 2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Ramble
Hey apple, nice way to turn in to M$. You can go **** yourself for $100 a year. Thanks, now I have to switch all the email I get because I used to type in mac.com because it was easy....oh well. Hey apple....go to hell.

:mad:
Man I can't believe how many people are upset about .mac costing $99 per year. It's a business! That's a good deal for what you are getting. I'm curious to see if I can direct a domain name to a .mac address then I'll get rid of my current hosting plan. My wife used iTools with iPhoto up until now so going fulltime .mac and dumping my current host could be a better deal for both of us.
Please people...calm down for Jiminy Glick's sake!

macktheknife
Jul 17, 2002, 12:33 PM
I guess with all the expectations and hype, Steve's keynote could be construed as a disappointment. But remember: Apple promised nothing to begin with (all the rumor sites were the ones going in overdrive) so I guess a few software updates isn't too shabby.

As for the .Mac $49 fee, here's my opinion: There is simply no way for company to keep giving free stuff away without anything in return. Microsoft is already going to charge people who access their POP mail account through Hotmail. There are already some advertising links on Hotmail too, so Microsoft is squeezing money from consumers directly and indirectly. So yes, it sucks that Apple is going to charge for .Mac after they kept telling everyone it's free to use. However, I would say that Apple (once again) is showing where the industry is going: The age of freebies is dying, and Apple is just recognizing this earlier than most companies.

In anycase, I can't wait for Jaguar and iTunes 3. I'll downloand the latter tonight when I get home.

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by theranch
I was very pleased with the broadcast as I watched it in mpeg4...no hiccups or drops and the quality was good!

I watched it on QT stream and there were a couple dropouts.

G4-400 cablemodem QT5 (I had 6 install problems even after paying for QT6 pro) OS9.2.2.

Rocketman

mcrain
Jul 17, 2002, 12:34 PM
As much as I like the 17" imac, that's not what I wanted.
As much as I like the bigger ipod, that's not what I wanted.
As much as I like the additional functions the ipod will have, that still isn't what I wanted.
As much as iSync and iCal look useful, that's not what I wanted.

Oh well, patience is a virgin.

cryptochrome
Jul 17, 2002, 12:38 PM
Of all the things that didn't come out at this Expo, I think iTunes WITH AAC audio ripping was the most perplexing. We got QT6 just now, and then iTunes3... where is it? I assumed this was a given.

Otherwise iTunes3 is great, but I was all set to start ripping my cd collection to my big new external drive (speaking of which it would be nice if there were some better way to do that, while temporarily storing X amount of files on your normal drive - I use an iBook w/only 20GB, and it's already full of other stuff).

DeepDish
Jul 17, 2002, 12:39 PM
I understand this is business and nothing is free. I am willing to sign up for $100 for one of our @mac.com accounts. But everyone in my family has thier own @mac.com address. Extras are $10 each.

I am not happy about this change. I am very very unhappy.

$100 is a good value for everything. But my family members only need low volume @mac.com e-mail accounts.

We could switch to other services, but what a pain.

We need to e-mail Apple to ask them to create an @mac.com light option.

Ramble
Jul 17, 2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by theranch

Man I can't believe how many people are upset about .mac costing $99 per year. It's a business! That's a good deal for what you are getting. I'm curious to see if I can direct a domain name to a .mac address then I'll get rid of my current hosting plan. My wife used iTools with iPhoto up until now so going fulltime .mac and dumping my current host could be a better deal for both of us.
Please people...calm down for Jiminy Glick's sake! Apples new campaign: Switch....Switch all your email and then 2 years later we will take it away from you with little or no warning. I am in college, and $100 may not seem like a lot to you, but it is to me. I'm glad I got this powerbook on an apple loan when I could have bought a Dell for half the price with more functionality. I have never thought about switching before, but now....who knows. Nice work stevie...what's wrong, your stock options aren't making enough money?

Maybe they are just trying to make some money to balance the books before the accounting scandal that shows that they actually have zero dollars in the bank breaks.

davidc05
Jul 17, 2002, 12:41 PM
the theoretical and actual applications of the new sync software is amazing. please do not cry about the price. about $250 for jaguar and .mac is nothing compared to great features and possibilites that they offer. even if this communication between programs and machines did exist in such a simple form for pc, it would take days to simply get it to work and even then it probably would not offer the type of productivity that the mac offers.

a rather small premium is ok with me and if it goes to support a company that is obviously on the leading edge of allowing to personal computer to makes ones life more enjoyable, that is fine by me.

Please let there be a G4 iBook!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

StuPid QPid
Jul 17, 2002, 12:41 PM
In answer to those hoping that Apple may have 'hinted' at the imminent release of new PowerMacs. Well of course they won't. I've read in several places that they still have a large inventory of the old models to get rid of. So if Apple itself even hints at something new coming, even less people will buy any of the old models. You'd be surprised at how many buyers don't read the rumor sites, or just go to an Apple Store to see what's on offer.

These keynotes are all the same. If you read the rumors sites, they always disappoint. They all follow the same format. Start with some ads and sales figures, then about an hour looking at an upcoming release of OSX, plus announcements of new iSoftware, or third party software (although this too was lacking this time...no progress reports from Quark, for example?), then in between a few minor updates to existing hardware. The last really exciting announcement at a Keynote was the introduction of the TiBook...

Mind you, that new 17" iMac looks good...I'm tempted ;)

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by backspinner
AirPort Software Base Station now included!

Seriously? So now all you need is an airport card in your non-physically conneceted computers?

That reduces the airport solution cost by $300 less the cost of Jaguar itself $129 or $170.

Are there any functional disadvantages to software base station?

Rocketman.

yankeedoodle
Jul 17, 2002, 12:42 PM
Does anybody happen to know whether and where the new iPod firmware is available? Do we have to wait until august to get it onto your ol' Pods? :confused:

jamesbhai
Jul 17, 2002, 12:42 PM
just chill. great apps. hardware has been updated this spring and will be this fall. as for .mac. that sucks, but i hope i can keep my email at least.

chill.

tcmcam
Jul 17, 2002, 12:43 PM
Great, I just saw an hour and a half on Jaguar. Yippie! But he never once talked about Quartz Extreme, and NEVER talked about performance benchmark improvements.

Let's HOPE, and PRAY, that Jaguar is indeed faster, otherwise this is going to get ugly.

If Jaguar is a lot faster, then fine, I can live with the 800mhz in the newest iMac.

Why didn't Apple put a 933mhz in the fastest iMac? What a lame upgrade?

Apple is trying to save "positioning" for the PowerMac line for what reason? Because they are NOT innovating at the PROCESSOR or MOTHERBOARD level. I am hoping the PowerMac's change this. Apple is hopelessly behind in these areas. The current iMac's are cute for home, but are really expensive 17" systems. Especially when AMD and Intel just announced they'll be delivering 3ghz performance in a few months!!!!

Here's what Apple should have done:
- Upgrade all processors in the iMac line (base: 800, 2 hi-end: 933 mhz or 1 ghz). They could still leave no L3 or no DDR, but GIVE US SOMETHING!!

- Screw the current positioning problem with the PowerMac line, no one is going to buy them right now unless they HAVE to HAVE a machine in the next 30 days. Hopefully the new PowerMac's will have a serious speed upgrade.

- Apple has to make the Power Mac's wonderful. A powermac costs $2000 more than a similarly equipped iMac (when including a 17" LCD display).

Please Apple, we'd love to get Windows users, but Apple hasn't done enough to make this easier.!!!

:mad: :mad:

bretm
Jul 17, 2002, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by gelbin
no upgrade price for jagwire.
now that is the worst.
i bought g4 533's for my school and osx is not quick on them. they will have to upgrade, and that comes at a price.
.

I'm sorry, you're not getting away with that. I've got a G4 400 and a G4 350 and OSX just plain rocks on both of them. I also work on a G4 Quicksilver dual-gig with FCP and other than rendering graphics or filters, the rest of the interface is baically the same, graphics cards aside. So if there's something you don't like on your 533s it's something you don't like about the interface. Not the speed of your machines. A 533 should rock along just great. What exactly do you find slow?

sparkleytone
Jul 17, 2002, 12:45 PM
to all those bitching about .Mac. whatever its worth it, and im a college student. three words: GET A JOB! i mean wtf. dont tell me you dont have time. you dont UNDERSTAND not having time, but guess what?? i have a job. ill pay.

twistedsun
Jul 17, 2002, 12:45 PM
rally the masses and everyone mail apple please please please. go to the new.mac site and send some mail to the feedback area, its in the bottom left corner of the brushed steel mail interface. mail them and tell them to atleast let all the mac users using mac.com mail adresses to keep them. i mean come on, would it be that much trouble? i am so worked up about having to pay money after using this adress for so long, i can understand paying for the other things but the mail?

so come on lets try and convince them otherwise...

-john

(i know im a bit hopefull but its worth a try)

drastik
Jul 17, 2002, 12:51 PM
man, it seems like no one is happy. Just to remind some of us:

1. Expos are not the only release points, so don't sweat it about the Pmacs and ACC. ACC Will probably be a forth comming update to iTunes, or, it is hung up in the MPEG LA liscensing agreement. No one wants to pay for iTunes, so you may ahve to use QT PRo to re convert even if iTunes supports the files. Given the end of the current rebate programs, you can probably expect new hardware by August 13th, or maybe the 24th to release with Jaguar.

2. Apple has obviously been working overtime to provide us with a very nice OS update. Even with the price, this is probably a loss per unit product, hence the other charge services.

3. Freebies have been dead for a while now, try getting free shipping ofr out post on most of their items. Free stuff was a hallmark of the .com boom, and while those were great times for everybody at the time, we are suffering the pain now. That will probably get worse before it gets better. (see stock market)

4. I think part of the problem around here is the high number of very young people who are Mac crazy. Thats cool that young people like Macs, I loved them as a kid from my Mac Plus on up. However, people seem to have a real strek of entitlement syndrome going on, which is wierd, since a lot of these people have not shelled out dime one for apple.

5. You spend more for the hardware because its well built and it does what you want. The hardware will continue to improve, and anyone who thinks a wintell box is better because it has some highly modified numbers tacked to it is fooling thmeselves. What's speed without real functionality.

6. An intelligent person would rather drive a well built Benz at a slower speed than a slapped together miata thirty miles an hour faster (this goes for Hardware and OS):D

tjwett
Jul 17, 2002, 12:55 PM
this is a huge disappointment on many levels. and to top it off my email address will cease to exist in 75 days! this is horse****.

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by twistedsun
rally the masses and everyone mail apple please please please. go to the new.mac site and send some mail to the feedback area, its in the bottom left corner of the brushed steel mail interface. mail them and tell them to atleast let all the mac users using mac.com mail adresses to keep them. i mean come on, would it be that much trouble? i am so worked up about having to pay money after using this adress for so long, i can understand paying for the other things but the mail?

so come on lets try and convince them otherwise...

-john

(i know im a bit hopefull but its worth a try)

Given the near universal consumer feed back from existing customers in support of this they would be very wise to do it. It would possibly even improve customer relations enough to encourage a fraction of these cost crippled and inertia ridden email users time and incentive to pay as Apple would prefer.

But to wipe out email accounts is silly. I had a webmail account "upgraded" resulting in los of all addresses and archives and it was a pain in the ass and served no detectible business purpose whatsoever.

Jerry

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Rocketman



But to wipe out email accounts is silly. I had a webmail account "upgraded" resulting in los of all addresses and archives and it was a pain in the ass and served no detectible business purpose whatsoever.

Jerry

Replying to myself :D

If they had a feature that downloaded all messages and addresses into a free mail program such as Free Eudora or whatever, alot of the noise would subside because whatever the outcome of pay/nopay the data would be retained erffortlessly.

Rocketman

http://v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

Get high. And fast.

elgruga
Jul 17, 2002, 01:02 PM
Its funny how guys like jobs dont seem to know that it is a problem for ordinary folks to just spend cash whenever they want. I think its becuase he is a billionaire.

I like my mac.com email address, but I wont pay $100 for it.

Like most of us, I dont use the rather useless iDisk. I have my own backup disks, and they are measured in gigs, not megs.

But I did like having my mac.com address - I have my full name at mac.com, which is always good for friends who forget your email and just take a guess.
If they offer me a $20 a year mac.com email address, I'm in, but not much more than that.

Screw stupid iDisk, and all the other crap.

I dont need every single bloody "digital lifestyle" app that Apple comes up with - I like CHOICE!

So I am not that thrilled with the announcements.

Jaguar MUST have an upgrade price - I already have 10.1.5 and a 10.1.4 disk came with my Tibook, which I purchased last week.
I mean, look: I bought the ********** Beta, I bought the 10 final version, then I bought a new Tibook 400, then I bought the Tibook 667. I have more versions of OSX than I care to think about.

I am a loyal Apple customer - GIVE ME A ********** BREAK HERE - UPGRADE ME TO JAGUAR FOR 29.99 OR 39.99 OR SOMETHING!

Really, the more I think about this the more pissed I get.
M$ overcharges for Orifice X, and Apple does the same thing!

All this will do is make pirate copies of Jaguar very common.

Am I right, or am I right?

zarathustra
Jul 17, 2002, 01:06 PM
Three years ago if I told you you could have an apple branded firewire device that would carry your address book, calendar and 20 GB of music and data - you would have wet your pants. And they I would tell you you could connect your camera and the machine would recognize it and you could print hard bound book of the photos, you would have doubted it. How about internet disk space, webspace and email with mac.com at the end - I would love it. And the list goes on.

We have come a long way from the days of horrid little pizza box machines and geo modems, so please don't complain. It seems nowadays everybody wants everything immediately.

Chill people.

bretm
Jul 17, 2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by theranch

Man I can't believe how many people are upset about .mac costing $99 per year. It's a business! That's a good deal for what you are getting. I'm curious to see if I can direct a domain name to a .mac address then I'll get rid of my current hosting plan. My wife used iTools with iPhoto up until now so going fulltime .mac and dumping my current host could be a better deal for both of us.
Please people...calm down for Jiminy Glick's sake!

Because they feel they've been duped. For 2 years they were given a service for free. I'm sure they were ever told they'd NEVER be charged for it, and apple has every right to do so. I feel that after a year (and after apple decided it had enough long-time users of the service) Apple decided to start charging. They probably ran focus groups to find out what percentage of users would ditch it, and what percentage of people would ditch it at a certain price point. If they had pulled this a month into the previously free service then nobody would have bitched and probably nobody would have paid the $50 bucks.

You've been duped. Almost swindled. Someone has taken something from you and charged you to have it back. Yearly. Business users can't afford NOT to pay for the service. It would cost them more money to send out the email change notifications. Maybe they should have a new iCard... Hey! I've just dropped my expensive email account. You can now find me at @hotmail.com.

When the service started I was under the impression you had to have purchased a mac. I seem to remember having to input the serial number from my mac to get the acct or something. But later I signed up for another acct when I got my laptop thinking... great, now I can have a second acct.

I would have suggested to Steve a different pricing scheme with grandfather clauses. One that makes you want to buy a first/new mac....

•Free to all current users or maybe 6mo users (he'd have to be REAL close lipped beforehand)
•Free 1 year service with a new mac
•Current new pricing still apples to other users

billiam0878
Jul 17, 2002, 01:16 PM
After playing with iTunes I can confirm that while it does not support AAC encoding, it will play AAC tracks you make with QuickTime. Also, for those of you who are students (or affiliated with an academic institution), OS 10.2 is $69.

Bill

PS. Love the 10GB iPod, and just ordered one!

kungfu
Jul 17, 2002, 01:22 PM
finally!! ipod has a clock!! check out the ipod image on this page:

http://www.apple.com/ipod/extras.html

dongmin
Jul 17, 2002, 01:24 PM
I can't believe people are having a fit over $49. That's a little over $4 a month, the price of a DVD rental at Blockbuster.

For that $4 a month, you get:

15MB email account (MS charges $20 for a 10MB acct)
100MB storage
Virex 7.1
iSync between your work and home Macs
other stuff

drastik
Jul 17, 2002, 01:26 PM
Love that education discount, And you get one if affiliated with any local or federal gov't agency as well. Heh, heh. My crappy job pays off!! Well, and all those disabled people I help.

I tunes supports ACC because it is based on the quicktime arc, FCP suports it too. I honestly believe that this whole ACC thing is over the liscensing issue. Apple has to pay fees, that why even QT PRo 5 users have to pay for 6 Pro. Introducing a charged for iTunes would go against the whole idea of the iApps. Would be nice to have a script for ripping ACC in Quicktime tho.

G4scott
Jul 17, 2002, 01:29 PM
Well, what did you expect from Apple? They aren't making much money off of computers right now. No one is. The .Mac thing is good for Apple, but I think that they should let existing members keep their free account with 5mb of eMail space, their 20mb iDisk, and that's it. Charge for the premium service, but leave the basic cheapo service for us who don't want to cough up $100 a month...

With Jaguar, they spent $9 million on R&D, so you'd expect for Apple to charge something for it, and they deserve it. Jaguar is going to bring tons of new functions, and we're lucky that we'll have it...

The iPods are cool, though. I might get the 10gb model... The iMac's new display is cool too, but Apple needs to increase the resolution on the 17" and the 15"

merges
Jul 17, 2002, 01:30 PM
A while back there was a good special on MuchMusic in Canada about a relatively popular but often-criticized band called Sloan. The closing comment from the band's drummer was a response to a question about how the band should respond to its critics: "I'd like to hear their bands."

In the same vein, those of you who believe that you have the know-how and "right stuff" to get a job at Apple and make your desires happen, go ahead!

For instance, it's easier to imagine a new Power Mac G4 than it is to actually create one (and at Apple, "create" means more than just slapping the parts together in a box). It's easier to imagine free mac.com email than it is to actually implement it--mac.com email costs Apple a lot of money to maintain. It's easier to imagine AAC support in iTunes than it is to include it (have you considered that there might be legal conditions, manpower restrictions, or busines plans that preclude Apple from doing so?).

Regarding pricing of .mac and Jaguar: Apple is continuing to build better products than any of its competitors; these products may not be the fastest, cheapest, or most full-featured of all products available in a given space, but they are damn good. Apple products empower people and let them enjoy their lives in the most stress-free way possible. In our world, if you want the benefits of these products, you pay for them.

I was going to wrap this up neatly, but I think I should reiterate that those of you who are unhappy with what Apple is doing, presumably not meeting your precise needs, should get a job for Apple. Otherwise, stop supporting Apple (or claiming to--do you really generate revenue for them?), shut up, and get other products that *do* meet your needs.

ImAlwaysRight
Jul 17, 2002, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by zarathustra
We have come a long way from the days of horrid little pizza box machines and geo modems, so please don't complain. It seems nowadays everybody wants everything immediately.

Chill people.


Hmmm, let's think about this. Last July's mid-range PowerMac was 867MHz Quicksilver. How far have we progressed in one year? 933MHz Quicksilver. A whole freaking 50MHz on the mid-powermac? Whooppie! I can't chill when I'm this excited. Sure, it has the same 133MHz bus, but, man, we've gone up 50MHz on the mid-range PowerMac over the time span of a year! Yeah! This ought to get people switching left and right!

it may not be immediately evident, but there is sarcasm in the above paragraph

Peterthehermit
Jul 17, 2002, 01:37 PM
I've been reading a lot of messages about how dissapointed people are in Apple about .mac/itools, powermacs, etc. etc. etc. What the heck were you expecting? If were expecting newer powermac models chances are it was because of all the rumors. RUMORS! Not truth, not gospel, not reality. Some reality for you is that iMac line is getting beefed up just a tad, as is the iPod, which, based on previous experiences with Apple, would indicate that an update to the powermacs may be just around the corner. The big news at this Macworld wasn't hardware, it was the software. I was extremely impressed by the software that Steve and Phil presented this morning. Jaguar just looks awesome. Spring loaded folders, a multithreaded finder, and those are just a couple of the new features. Heck, Jaguar is almost an entirely new OS!!! Some of those features mac users have been begging for ever since OS X first came out! Apple is not all about hardware! While that may have been true 2 or 3 years ago, it is no longer the case. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if future MW expos centered more around the software innovation by Apple than the hardware (not to say that hardware won't remain a top priority for Apple).

As for the whole .mac/iTools issue, yes, I am a bit dissapointed in today's announcement, but quite frankly, I didn't expect much else. It's the way the markets are going. Storage and bandwith cost money and Apple has to do something to recoup some of that cost. Plus, you are also getting antivirus software and a back-up application.

Well, I'm done for now. Have a good day y'all and WTG Apple!!!

billiam0878
Jul 17, 2002, 01:38 PM
I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but Apple is offering the eMac with a COMBO drive now.

Bill

billiam0878
Jul 17, 2002, 01:39 PM
iDVD 2.1 is out as well.

Bill

mrwalker
Jul 17, 2002, 01:43 PM
Watched the whole show, while fiddling with my SymbianOS cell phones (Nokia 9210 and 7650 (different numbers in the US, though)). Just waiting for Sony Ericsson P800, this Nokia **** drives me crazy...

Hope you understand how big this Bluetooth and iSync thing can be. At least it was the big thing for me... A big hand for Sony Ericsson!!!

.mac was a big (but expected...) disappointment...

Jam
Jul 17, 2002, 01:49 PM
hey, did anyone else notice that Steve's iCal (i think) demo crapped out and he had to "switch to his backup system"... what's the dilly with that?

and during his iTunes show it was supposed to sort his playlist in some way and it didn't so he just walked away and said "that's what it SHOULD have done"...
oh well, I like the updates with Jag-wire (what's up with that BTW, was his turtle neck too tight?), but over $100 is a bit steep. $99 upgrade would be fine and still make them some money.

alex_ant
Jul 17, 2002, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Oh well, patience is a virgin.
Hahaha, it's a virtue too. :)

Jam
Jul 17, 2002, 01:51 PM
Actually, about 10.2, I should quit bellyaching about the price, 'cause it will come bundled with my new tower next month (hopeful).

michaelyoung
Jul 17, 2002, 01:52 PM
a copy of my feedback to apple -
I think, in the future, I will look back on today as the day that I changed my opion about Apple.
I have been using Apple products for over 20 years. I was taught to program in Basic when I was in elementry school. Today I make a living as an editor using Final Cut Pro. That being said, I am not a fanatic or a zealot. I have just been a happy consumer of apple products.

I believe that the choice to change the free iTools services to a "premium" .mac service represents a troubluing shift in business pratice for Apple. In the ever shifting terrain of service providers and new technology I was happy to find an email address that I could use from year to year that was not subject to change. My @mac.com address provided that for me. I was grateful to have it. I just told people to email me at "[my name]" at mac.com. I figured that it was a great way to "add value" for your customers who have already paid a premiuim for their hardware and who have to deal with the "paticulars" of using an operating system that is only 5% of the market.

I have not used the any of the other iTools services very much (iDisk was _never_ even_ functional in my experience) but i did appreciate the mac.com moniker. I will not pay for your "upgrade" however. It is not that I can't afford it, I can. I just totally oppose that strategy of luring your _existing_ users into _free_ services that they are inherently invested in, and then switching it to a $100/year subscription service. What is next? Do I load all of my family photos in iPhoto then get charged for looking at the pictures?

This is clearly a bad faith move that I can only imagine will not succeed. I do not know _a single_ person who will use this service and I work in a mac friendly industry. The fact that the other services were lumped in does not even come close to justifying that kind of money.

I can't imagine what caused you to look at this _clearly_ unworkable business model and apply it to a nifty little service like iTools. The industry is littered with failed companies who could not make this sort of thing work. You must be smart enough to recognize that. Aren't you?

I hope you reconsider and _at a minimun_ allow us to keep our @mac.com email addresses.


Thank you
:mad:

billiam0878
Jul 17, 2002, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Jam
hey, did anyone else notice that Steve's iCal (i think) demo crapped out and he had to "switch to his backup system"... what's the dilly with that?

Yea, lol. But you have to remember that iCal still isn't a finished product (due in September?). The iTunes glitch was funny too.

Bill

alex_ant
Jul 17, 2002, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by ImAlwaysRight
Hmmm, let's think about this. Last July's mid-range PowerMac was 867MHz Quicksilver. How far have we progressed in one year? 933MHz Quicksilver. A whole freaking 50MHz on the mid-powermac? Whooppie!
It was actually a 66MHz increase. :)

billiam0878
Jul 17, 2002, 01:53 PM
iDVD 2.1 is out as well.

Bill

dobbin
Jul 17, 2002, 01:54 PM
I have used Macs since I was 10 years old (1986) and today is the first time they have ever p1ssed me off.

Why exactly did I get upgrade vouchers when I bought OS X if I'm going to have to pay full whack for the upgrade?

I will not buy the upgrade if there's no upgrade path and I won't pay just to use my mac.com email either.

I am very p1ssed off with Apple that I now have to go back to my previous free email/web provider.

Do they not realise that some normal people can't just find £200 just like that with no warning. I am quite prepared to pay over the odds to have a nice machine, but I don't expect it to cost me anything for at least a year after I bought it!

Robin (very disappointed)

elgruga
Jul 17, 2002, 01:57 PM
The more I think about this .mac debacle, the sillier it seems.

Lets see:

Announce a free mac.com email facility and say that its "for life" (I am sure thats what they said at the time)
The markey goes down and sales are flat, so let some bean-counter decide policy.
Start charging for the service - which magically yesterday was worth nothing, but today is worth $100.

"Oh but you get iCal and all this stuff" Yes, but I dont WANT it.

If Hotmail and Yahoo are free, then how is mac.com email worth $100?

Apple - the company that always finds a way to piss its loyal users off.

Prediction: 90% (or more) of mac.com email users will not have an account in 75 days.

Result: no more free advertising for Apple every time we send an email from whoever@mac.com.

APPLE: $10 FOR THE EMAIL ONLY ACCOUNT AND $50 FOR THE JAGUAR UPGRADE (ASSUMING A NEW MACHINE IN THE LAST YEAR) - DO IT.

I am not certain, but is there a legal issue here with a free service that becomes "custom and practise" and is then changed to a pay service?
There is something very wrong with this way of doing business.

DidotCicero
Jul 17, 2002, 01:57 PM
I just finished upgrading to .Mac, even although my Mac is only capable of running MacOS 9. I've seen the complete two hours of the Keynote and I really think it's worth the money as far as I can see.
Let's just wait and see what they have for us in the future. You can allways quit later...

>DidotCicero

backspinner
Jul 17, 2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by elgruga
If Hotmail and Yahoo are free, then how is mac.com email worth $100?


Make that STILL free...
...read my lips!

JINX
Jul 17, 2002, 02:09 PM
I don't understand how anyone reading these rumor sites could be that disappointed. Everyone has reported no new PMs and that was spot on. But we all know they are coming in August and will probably kick butt. So we get christmas twice (so its kind of like hanukah), now and in August.

The new software looks fantastic. Smart playlists is the kind of thing that will really grow on people as they start to get used to working with them. They'll make iTunes a lot more fun. And that feature that will make all music play at the same volume is awesome - I hope that extends to the burning of CDs from iTunes. iCal, assuming it really works with my palmpilot (they kind of glossed over that), will become my one and only calendar. And anyone who has to coordinate the calendar of multiple individuals (like I do with the 10 people working in my lab), the abiility to overlay multiple schedules and update them sync them over the web is fantastic. Also, that thing SJ showed with DL'ing the Dodger's baseball schedule could totally take off. Just think how easy it would be for TV guide to let you DL a personalized schedule with episode/repeat info to your Palm/iPod iCal. LA Weekly could set one up to show where all the bands are playing when, etc. iSync will be a lifesaver too. SJ was right on the money about all the time I thought my calendar or address info was on both of my computers, but it turned out not to be on the one I needed.

anyone who has been watching this rumor site knows that the latest builds of Jaguar are fantastic both in terms of speed and features. Isn't the upgrade price $19.99? Who can complain about that? If you are paying $129 to start on OS X for the first time that means you haven't paid for any of the previous versions that we all have. And most people will get it free anyway when they buy their new imacs and PMs (in august). as I said, I have a lab of 10 people and thus far I've only upgraded one of their machines to OS X (I've been using it on my own since 10.1), but 10.2 will be the right time (especially with the addition of Matlab for OS X due in 2 weeks)

as for .mac, sure I wish it was cheaper or free, but I think its a valuable service (especially with new backup and virus software - and viruses will become a big problem for macs if the switch campaign ever really takes off). $50 seems like a better permanent price point, but I'll happily pay for the functionality - not to mention the future possibilities that will be added. Apple has never skimped on value for money.

Finally, i like the new imac - 15" was just too small but the new one is tempting to me (though I think I'll wait for the PMs in August). But the new iPods are killer. I didn't believe the rumor sites that a 20GB model would come out because I had heard the form factor for that size HD hadn't be worked out. And a thinner 10GB model is tempting too. And 5GB at $299 is a great value - has anyone who has bought an iPod been disappointed? Has anyone felt like they didn't get their money's worth.

So buck up everybody. Its true that not all of us can afford everything that is put out by the best computer and software company around, but you always get more than you pay for when you compare it to M$ or any other computer company.

JINX :)

elgruga
Jul 17, 2002, 02:17 PM
I just did the math:

here in Canada, .mac will cost over $150 CAD.

Thats about $12.50 per month. hang on - I can get dialup Internet access for LESS than that!
They will give you a free website and all that kind of useless crap as well.

For only a bit more money, I can get International dial-up access.

Where is Apple's brain gone?

I recall them offering me more iDisk space a few months back. The prices went as high as $1000 a year for 1 gig of space. I thought it was a mistake at the time......

I would venture to say that the US corporate culture has its head up its ass.
We have seen dumb moves from M$, from eBay, and others, and now Apple.

Business 101: "Dont piss your customers off"

I am sending emails to Apple - I dont think I am the only one.....

theNonsuch
Jul 17, 2002, 02:22 PM
I'm not against Apple charging for both .Mac and Jaguar, but the pricing definitely is way out of line.

Especially 10.2 - the fact that there is no upgrade path is sand in the face of everyone that has supported the OS from the beginning, even though it sucked rocks up until 10.1...

I highly recommend everyone send them feedback on this and hopefully they will add in upgrade pricing -

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

boobers
Jul 17, 2002, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by iH8Quark


Your email won't go away. You just won't get 10 extra MB. You're limited to 5 MB. Chill out. Mac.com email is still free, as far as I know.

I'll calm down if you can prove this ! show me please..

3rdpath
Jul 17, 2002, 02:28 PM
http://www.crazyapplerumors.com/

the best play by play recap of the expo....

ahhhh, i feel better.

BobVB
Jul 17, 2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by theranch

Man I can't believe how many people are upset about .mac costing $99 per year. It's a business!

Sorry, but giving away email addresses and then suddenly charging $99 for them is bad form. If it was just the hard disk space, that would be different - but for those who were using their @mac.com emails as their primary address this is a raw deal. A "Pay up or got through the tedious task of changing your email address" is only just short of extortion.

Apple lost a lot of good will today - they must be desperate for the cash.

el_aarono
Jul 17, 2002, 02:32 PM
Especially 10.2 - the fact that there is no upgrade path is sand in the face of everyone that has supported the OS from the beginning, even though it sucked rocks up until 10.1...



I recall S. Jobs saying to upgrade is only $19.99. Also, if this upgrade is like the 10.1 upgrade, you can walk down to your nearest Apple dealer and pick up a copy for free.

dhdave
Jul 17, 2002, 02:32 PM
Some thoughts:

1. $129 for OSX 10.2 accross the board?? There is really no upgrade pricing for existing users? I'm incredulous. I could maybe see this for OSXI but for an interim release? Criticize them all you want (and there's plenty to criticize) but even Microsoft sees the benefit of upgrade pricing. For a company currently being criticized for not pushing OSX near enough, this move is baffling. If you want more people to trade up, you charge them less. Am I missing something here?

2. The 17" iMac is great. But, being a gearhead, I wanted to see 133mhz system bus. I know ddr is too much to ask for since it's not even incorporated into the PowerMacs yet, but I agree with those who say Apple is lagging behind technologically at the moment as far as hardware is concerned.

3. The iTools thing is also pretty low. I love how Steve misrepresented that hotmail was no longer free. That simply isn't true. They are pushing extra services, but the basic account is still free. I think the real reason Apple is taking the email away is that without it .Mac simply isn't worth paying $100/year for. At a minimum, Apple should have Grandfathered existing users. It has nothing to do with wanting "something for nothing". Damnit, Apple offered it for nothing.

4. Sorry, but I just don't get the calendar. However, I'm back in school after about a decade in retail so I don't have a real job yet with appointments and schedules. Maybe it will be of more value for me after I graduate.

5. The iPods saved the show for me. I am so glad they decided to keep the 5gb iPod in the lineup. At $299 it's a steal. The 20gb is over the top for me, but VERY cool. Especially as a portable firewire drive. I think I'll go for the 10gb when I buy my new PowerMac in September. I am praying it supports ddr.

dh

P.S. What's this AAC everybodies talking about?

billiam0878
Jul 17, 2002, 02:32 PM
So how does .MAC compares to M$'s .NET? Are they equally good or bad?

Bill

DannyZR2
Jul 17, 2002, 02:33 PM
I'm not reading all yalls "disappointing" posts because most of you don't have themoney too buy anything anyway, you just like to curse apple for it's way to make a profit in this economy...

I LOVE the new iMac.. I will be waiting for say, Smalldog to get an open box or refurb though so I can get a SUPER deal on one. and I don't wanna pay tax... but edusale looks possible..... anyhoo...

I am very pleased with the expo.. we all were told new PM's WILL BE IN JUST A FREAKIN MONTH SO SHUT YER PIEHOLE AND SUCK IT UP>>>>>>


MW has ALWAYS BEEN FOR COMSUMERS JUST LIKE 6 MONTHS A GO AT SF. YOU WILL GET THEM, ,THEY'LL HAVE DDR, JUST FREAKIN WAIT AND STOP YER CURSIN!

freakin 12 year olds......

Sun Baked
Jul 17, 2002, 02:37 PM
You guys make it sound like the iCEO has been eating the fermented tofu again.

dhdave
Jul 17, 2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by elgruga

I would venture to say that the US corporate culture has its head up its ass.

I was with you until you blamed "US" corporate culture. It's corporate culture period. If you don't think you have greed in Canada you are fooling yourself.

dh

mstur
Jul 17, 2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by King Cobra
I realize that Apple cannot bring forth PowerMacs every six months, but from what I have read there was not even a freakin ANNOUNCEMENT about newer PowerMacs coming soon. THAT and the fact that IF the new models have DDR-RAM, the Macs were not released at a big event, for a big product, are what got me startled.

Please consider:
1. All rumorsites agreed that there would be no new Powermacs for MWNY. So there is no reason for disappointment.

2. In the last 2 years, Apple has moved MANY product announcements away from MacWorld Expo keynote, simply because a large company like Apple cannot restrict itself to two single events only (MWSF; MWNY) for new product announcements.

And whoever expects ANNOUNCEMENTS of nonshipping products should go and learn some Apple history ;-)

3. At the current state of the PC economy, Apples announcement of iPod for PC, Jaguar and .Mac are just a big pleasure for any Apple shareholder (like me), since it will bring revenue without risk ;-)
(That the stock price of AAPL fell is: a. the usual effect of any MW Expo, and b. just another reason to buy more Apple stock !!).

4. I really love the 17" iMac TFT ...

moJoMR
Jul 17, 2002, 02:47 PM
He said right during the god dam expo that the upgrade would be 19.99 to cover shipping and handling just like 10.1 was last year (which isn't exactly an honest price considering the actual shipping is something like 3.20)... IT'S NOT $129 IF YOU OWN OS X SO CALM THE FUHCK DOWN!

.mac is a kick in the crotch tho.. looks like I'm goin back to my earthlink acct ($10/y, mebbe even $20 would be ok.. and all im asking for is email.. but $99? ontop of my ISP bill?? don't think so...)

mcrain
Jul 17, 2002, 02:48 PM
Wasn't apple at least trying a little to keep the lid on the secrets coming into MWNY??

I mean, everyone knew that a 20gig ipod and 17" iMac were going to be announced. We also knew about Jaguar and .mac.

The only things we didn't know about were iSync, the prices of stuff, iCal and the phone stuff.

Why don't they just tell us what they are up to, their ability to keep secrets sucks.

tcmcam
Jul 17, 2002, 02:49 PM
First, I think .mac should cost something for the "extra" services (backup, iDisk, photo gallery). But email should be free. Hotmail is FREE for email. It only costs more for extra storage. No, I'm not being cheap, I just want Apple to maintain par with the competition (so we can increase the number of Mac users)!!

2. .mac is NOT .Net. .NET includes a whole bunch of Business to Business services built around XML. This includes integration of the Web server, SQL Server, development tools you name. MSN Messenger (and passport) is an insignificant portion of .NET brought to you by the marketting dept at MSFT.

3. Yes, I love the 17" iMac. BUT, it's still too slow. Sorry to burst the bubble here guys but this is being targetted as a "pro-sumer" home PC. For $2000, a Wintel PC will blow this baby away. Read http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html. This is a MAC friendly site, but they make it pretty obvious. And these were the DP powermac's they were testing!!!! C'mon Apple, at least put a faster CPU in the 17" iMac!!! I don't care if they are only 6 months old, keep up!!!

4. Jaguar looks great. Thank god! The software is the only way to make a Mac "worth the money" right now. Gee, if they keep this up (iCal, Address Book), no one will need Entourage anymore.... :cool:

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 02:50 PM
I am deeply disappointed that there is no upgrade pricing for 10.2. I have 3 macs myself, 2 for my girlfriend, 1 for my parents and 3 for my school journal and all of them will need 10.2. The version of 10.1 which is on the 3 g4's at school that were purchased less than 1 year ago is still significantly slower than 0S9 and much less usable. It is absolutely a shame that those customers that most quickly adopted, I should say 'beta-tested' osX, are now being charged the full price for their commitment to the product as it nears final form.

Sincerely,
Chris Nidel

moJoMR
Jul 17, 2002, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by dhdave
Some thoughts:

P.S. What's this AAC everybodies talking about?


Advanced Audio Codec that they just added to quicktime, at 64kbps better qual than a 128kbps mp3.. basically as far as the 20gb ipod is concerened with this: "8000 songs in your pocket" and really it would be more like 8500, bcuz I get 1200 on my 5g.. so 2400 double.. 4800 on 10g(double)..9200 on 20g.. thats about a month of non stop rockin :D

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by BobVB


Sorry, but giving away email addresses and then suddenly charging $99 for them is bad form. If it was just the hard disk space, that would be different - but for those who were using their @mac.com emails as their primary address this is a raw deal. A "Pay up or got through the tedious task of changing your email address" is only just short of extortion.

Apple lost a lot of good will today - they must be desperate for the cash.

I fully agree with this and I did not get sucked in.

New dot-mac users have a reasonable opportunity with notice of what to do, but existing users, and there are LOTS of them, mainly want to keep their email addresses. I once changed service providers and they refused to even mirror email to my new account when their other upgrade paths would not work for me. I suspect Apple will:

1. Insist old users pay $99 or have their accounts and email addresses erased within 60 days.

2. Refuse to mirror/forward from yourname@mac.com to newaccount@isp.com.

3. Refuse to simplt offer a cheater email only version of dot-mac for a crippled price.

Jerry

Don't they have an x-serve or three they can store old dot-mac accounts on? MUST all data be lost?

Timothy
Jul 17, 2002, 02:52 PM
OK...I've done my fair-share of ranting on this site, but let's get real, folks. Perhaps the relatively recent revelations that many of you are still in middle school explains some of the over-reacting going on.

Charging fees for services on the net is a good thing. Point me to one business model that has any legs and plans on giving similar or equivalent services away for free. Now is the time for the real long-term business plans to emerge, and for those of us who support Apple, we should be glad to support a good value. $99 per year for .mac is not unreasonable. No one has promised you free email for life; get real.

Now...I am definitely feeling that the power users in the mac community are due for a bit o' love from Cupertino; I'm feeling somewhat neglected. So, I too, was dissapointed that there was no focus on the Power Users again in this MacWorld. It's been awhile since we've been stroked at a major apple event.

If we really will see some significant changes in August...I look forward to that. Apple needs to keep us coming back and excited about what is in the pipeline for the Pro line. Though we may be a minority, we drive the early adoption of all Apple products, we are the ones who help our mothers and fathers and friends configure their consumer machines. Apple ignores us to it's own detriment. They know this, even though they haven't seemed to show it lately.

The software releases were impressive. Here's a clue...most software costs money! Even shareware tends to cost a few bucks. The amount of software that Apple gives you for free is incredible. That they would charge money for the system software is entirely understandeable. Get a job if you think $129 is too much; or just wait to upgrade when you buy your next machine. But to whine about these fees is ridiculous.

Finally...the iPod should be getting rave reviews from everyone. I saw so many comments about lowering the price of the 5gig to $299 prior to the show...and Apple did it! Rejoice! I'm buying the 20gig and am very pleased to do so.

Apple is staying afloat in a tough market. They don't always do exactly what "I" want, but they are keeping the health of the company in tact, and in the long run, there couldn't be a better recipe for our happiness.

SPG
Jul 17, 2002, 02:52 PM
re: .mac charges...**** cheapskates! Get a basic hotmail account and quit whining. Don't want the extra features? Don't get them. $4 and change per month isn't that bad. Go back to stealing all your software and MP3's and while you're at it balance all the FREE software that Apple gives you against this service which costs Apple a lot of money to maintain.

re: Powermacs. Apple never promised anything. I really want/need a new machine but oh well, let's wait till August to complain about that.

New iPods...Holy crap these are dope! Anyone want a used 5gig? how about the fact that an iPod is now a very viable substitute for a PDA? I'm impressed.

dhdave
Jul 17, 2002, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by moJoMR

He said right during the god dam expo that the upgrade would be 19.99 to cover shipping and handling just like 10.1 was last year (which isn't exactly an honest price considering the actual shipping is something like 3.20)... IT'S NOT $129 IF YOU OWN OS X SO CALM THE FUHCK DOWN!

Wrong, man. Here's a quote right of Apple's web site:

If you purchase a qualifying new Macintosh that does not have Mac OS X version 10.2 Jaguar on or after July 17, 2002, you can upgrade to Jaguar for US$19.95.

Click here to go see for yourself (http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/)

dh

moJoMR
Jul 17, 2002, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by dhdave


Wrong, man. Here's a quote right of Apple's web site:



Click here to go see for yourself (http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/)

dh

on or after.. my bad...

Sun Baked
Jul 17, 2002, 03:01 PM
The Up-to-date program is $19.95 - everyone else pays $129.

www.apple.com/macosx/uptodate/

Your Macintosh is a state-of-the-art computer, engineered for power, speed and ease of use. It is ready for Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar” which significantly enhances the modern foundation of Mac OS X ...

Apple would like to give you the opportunity to upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar.” Customers who purchase a qualifying new Macintosh computer on or after July 17, 2002, that does not have Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar” included can upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 “Jaguar” for US$19.95.* See “Terms and Conditions” for program details.

The program ends on October 31, 2002. Your order must be postmarked or faxed by October 31, 2002, so order your upgrade now.

richard5mith
Jul 17, 2002, 03:04 PM
Hotmail is not free. I wish people would stop saying it is.

Not only is it laden down with ads, and laden down with spam. But if you want to access it from anything other than your browser, you'll have to pay them for the privilege. I believe Yahoo! mail is now the same.

moJoMR
Jul 17, 2002, 03:05 PM
hmm.. ive used jaguar and i dont think its worth that price at all.. if you watched the expo remember how things kept not working? ichat has the most probs.. i hope this 'surprise' shipping date doesnt mean they're done fixing it

dhdave
Jul 17, 2002, 03:06 PM
I'm not complaining about the price. I'm questioning the logic of it. I'm buying a new PM in September so I'll have 10.2. It doesn't matter to me from an economic standpoint. What I'm saying is it doesn't make much sense to alienate all those who bought a Mac, ummm.... YESTERDAY and before. Why not an $89.95 price point? Or a $69.95 price point? That would not only soften the blow, but it would help ensure that MORE people were adopting the latest OS while keeping a revenue stream for Apple. Again, am I missing something here? Anybody buy a Mac yesterday or last week, or last month? How do you feel about this?

dh

drastik
Jul 17, 2002, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by michaelyoung
\
. The industry is littered with failed companies who could not make this sort of thing work. You must be smart enough to recognize that. Aren't you?
Thank you
:mad:

Umm, actually, this industry is filled with companies that do quite nicely doing just this. Tey are offering you web space, a fair amount for the price even. Frree email and a little sapcce is one thing, this is web hosting, and I think you'll find a lot of companies do that for money,.\\.

backspinner
Jul 17, 2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by SPG how about the fact that an iPod is now a very viable substitute for a PDA? I'm impressed.
and even though it is missing input functionality, it still looks terribly complete and functional to me. I never store things right away in the computer, but always want to look things up after I stored it in batches at a time at the office. Scribbling notes on paper gives way better experience.

richard5mith
Jul 17, 2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by elgruga
I would venture to say that the US corporate culture has its head up its ass.
We have seen dumb moves from M$, from eBay, and others, and now Apple.

Yea, they're actually charging money for the services they provide.

Stone the crows! You mean they actually want to stay in business? Say it ain't so?

Yes Apple should be making a cheap, email only version of .mac, to label them stupid, clueless idiots or to think that things are going to be better over on the PC side of the fence is just plain stupid.

dhdave
Jul 17, 2002, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by richard5mith:

Hotmail is not free. I wish people would stop saying it is.

But it IS free. I access it from both my email client and a browser, just like iTools. Or did you mean another device other than my computer?
I totally agree with you that it is spam laden. That's even understating it a bit. Hotmail is almost worthless, but the fact remains that it IS free.

dh

rainman::|:|
Jul 17, 2002, 03:11 PM
Once again, we hear Apple talking about how they're going to improve their marketshare, get bigger, more sales, take over the free world, yadda yadda. Then they go and do something so STUPID as reneging on their word-- wonderful way to PISS OFF THE LOYAL. I'm quite upset, and i don't even use my mac.com email or idisk-- i had a feeling apple would eventually pull something like this.

i'm so sick of hearing people say 'oh, charge me money, it's good for business'... Apple *DID* say that your mac.com address was yours for life, implying freeness forever. and now they want to charge a rediculous fee for their free service...

And again, we're left wanting in speed- while the rest of the world gets further ahead. I don't even know if apple can play catch-up anymore-- MHz myth be damned, they passed us in speed a LONG time ago...

I think i'll start shopping around for my next computer system elsewhere. Apple claims they're doing well and preparing for growth; it's obvious they're sliding closer and closer to oblivion-- While i do wish they would move things along... you can wish in one hand and ***** in the other, see which one fills up first...

:) just my ranting
pnw

gunb0y
Jul 17, 2002, 03:12 PM
anyone whos upgrading their ipod's wanna sell me their old 5 gig version?

digitalbiker
Jul 17, 2002, 03:16 PM
Apple is in trouble! Their stock is down almost 20% today. Their 2nd quarter profits were way off from last year. IMac sales are in the toilet. And today they pissed off a huge portion of their user base.

I'm pissed that they didn't offer an upgrade path for the loyal OSX users who have been trying to make this transition fly since the OSX PB days!

I'm also pissed that they didn't offer at least some sort of free minimal .mac service. Even if it was a 5mb email address space only. At least then I would feel somewhat better about my choice to support Apple by paying inflated hardware costs and suffering through the incompatiblity issues of being in the 5% marketshare crowd rather than the 95% crowd. Actually after today, Microsoft is looking fairer, and fairer for all the free services they still support.

Apples switch campaign is working! I think I will switch. Switch to Linux, which is OpenSource, supported by it's users, and runs fine on the ppc archtecture. So Long APPLE! You SUCK!!!

moJoMR
Jul 17, 2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by gunb0y
anyone whos upgrading their ipod's wanna sell me their old 5 gig version?
Depends what your willing to pay

trodel_post
Jul 17, 2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by robinfly
Hihi, I'm delurking :D *wave*

Didn't it strike you all as odd that Steve and Phil conducted that Address Book demonstration with the Bluetooth-enabled phones, a feature that no currently available mac will be able to use? I was certain that we'd see some sort of huge Bluetooth announcement, but it never came.

I hope they offer something like a Bluetooth / AirPort combo card instead of just that sloppy USB wart for Bluetooth connectivity. Grrrr, I was soooo hoping for something like a 2 button, Bluetooth wireless scrollwheel mouse! Guess I need to get my head out of the clouds.

I don't know if this is any consolation or not, but Microsoft is very definitely planning to announce bluetooth mice and keyboards before the end of the year. I would never be caught dead with the single-button retard mouse that Macs come with anyway, so a MS mouse has always been on my desk.

By the end of the year, you'll have your Bluetooth peripherals, they just won't have the Apple brandname.

mcrain
Jul 17, 2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
I think i'll start shopping around for my next computer system elsewhere.
I'd be happy to sell you my system. I spent an hour and a half this morning downloading quicktime twice, installing it, crashing my computer, restarting three times, one blue screen, and guess what, after all that, it still wouldn't work, and I didn't get to see the keynote.

You are more than welcome to buy my piece of crap PC. I can tell you right now, I have no need for .mac, and I already have an email address. But, for the OS, this morning I would have paid three times what they are asking for it.

Believe me, upgrade from Windows 98 to 2000 to XP once or twice, and $129 isn't so bad (especially considering a computer that originally ran 98 probably can't run xp for *****.

boobers
Jul 17, 2002, 03:19 PM
if the idisk supported php and DNS comes with the .mac account then i would be a little bit interested..however i get te feeling that idisk is not that intelligent.
A very crappy day..can't believe i got up at 6am to hear this crappyassed news...

job
Jul 17, 2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by trodel_post
By the end of the year, you'll have your Bluetooth peripherals, they just won't have the Apple brandname.

And you know that how? :rolleyes:

coolocity
Jul 17, 2002, 03:19 PM
Alright, so it's $20 to upgrade to Jag, big deal. I understand why you would be upset if you already have OSX though.. paying $129, and then $100 for .MAC

As for me, I'm getting the new iMac, paying $120 that includes both the Jag upgrade and .MAC

Keep writing e-mails though, you never know if it'll help till ya try.

-John

dhdave
Jul 17, 2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by paulwhannel:

I think i'll start shopping around for my next computer system elsewhere.

Yeah, but where are you going to go? In the wintel world your left with an inferior OS (XP, 95, Me, 2000 take your pick, I've used them all) and an inferior architecture: X86. I've built many wintel boxes including the one I use for school and while it's fun to build and you're proud when you are done you have still built just a wintel machine and not a Mac and you're still left with all the headaches that come with wintel and X86. I truly hope the rumors of Apple slowly adopting AMD X86 architecture are NOT true. It's the RISC architecture that keeps me here. OS X is not enough by itself.

dh

trodel_post
Jul 17, 2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by bretm


I'm sorry, you're not getting away with that. I've got a G4 400 and a G4 350 and OSX just plain rocks on both of them. I also work on a G4 Quicksilver dual-gig with FCP and other than rendering graphics or filters, the rest of the interface is baically the same, graphics cards aside. So if there's something you don't like on your 533s it's something you don't like about the interface. Not the speed of your machines. A 533 should rock along just great. What exactly do you find slow?

No offence, but these types of posts really annoy me. Speed is subjective. One person's rocking fast machine is another's dog. Don't go bashing someone because they want modern hardware from Apple. Is it really too much to ask for?

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 03:27 PM
what do i find slow?


office, for one and only really.
explorer.

but office. and running macros is slow as hell on a office x. this is all compared to pIV ~1.4's.

it is not me i am worried about. it is the pc users that work on my journal that will find that their pc's are still much faster at basic office stuff.

it is embarrassing.

i thought jaguar would fix it, which it might, but ****, it is 300+$ if i am going to be legit.

trodel_post
Jul 17, 2002, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Rocketman


Replying to myself :D

If they had a feature that downloaded all messages and addresses into a free mail program such as Free Eudora or whatever, alot of the noise would subside because whatever the outcome of pay/nopay the data would be retained erffortlessly.

Rocketman

http://v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

Get high. And fast.

Set up your .mac account as an IMAP account in your favorite mail client, then drag and drop the messages into your local folders. Come on people, this is not that difficult.

MattB
Jul 17, 2002, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by richard5mith
Hotmail is not free. I wish people would stop saying it is.

Not only is it laden down with ads, and laden down with spam. But if you want to access it from anything other than your browser, you'll have to pay them for the privilege. I believe Yahoo! mail is now the same.

Hotmail is compeletly FREE!!! Unless you want to purchase the extra storage offered by MSN. Yahoo is the same way. AND Windows user can connect to their Hotmail account(s) through Outlook.

Also, Hotmail contains many filtering options to rid you of SPAM. I rarely get more than 2-3 pieces of SPAM a week and they are quickly blocked and deleted.

rainman::|:|
Jul 17, 2002, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Believe me, upgrade from Windows 98 to 2000 to XP once or twice, and $129 isn't so bad (especially considering a computer that originally ran 98 probably can't run xp for *****.

Oh, I'm quite familiar with the (huge) downsides to windows... i'm forced to use 'em often... but at this point, they're much faster, and it's not like my iMac running X never crashes-- It keeps getting buggier and slower... and the hardware isn't gaining any speed. It all comes down to what you're willing to sacrifice, since neither platform currently offers a decent solution... Myself, i'm getting to the point where i'll take a little more instability for a LOT more speed...

I suppose switching platforms is an idle threat on my part, because i'm HUGELY loyal to apple, but the simple fact that i'm questioning that loyalty says a great deal about the state of Apple right now...

:)
pnw

backspinner
Jul 17, 2002, 03:37 PM
Hotmail is _still_ free. As soon as everybody else starts asking money for email services (well at least in my country free email has completely vanished), Microsoft soon will pull the plug as well. And nobody will fill the gap since if even Microsoft isn't able to run Hotmail-like services profitable, nobody will.

JINX
Jul 17, 2002, 03:38 PM
While the 10GB iPod is 6mm smaller in the depth dimension, the 20 GB is larger than the 5GB model in the depth dimension and weighs more. The 5GB and 10GB versions weigh the same. Check the specs at apple.com.

-JINX

JINX
Jul 17, 2002, 03:41 PM
I just plunked down my $49 for .mac and already used Backup. Its really nice and works in the background letting everything else work pretty much as it should. It lets you backup some stuff to your iDisk and other stuff to CD-R or DVD-R, which is pretty cool. Once you've done your first big backup, later scheduled backups only take a minute to update the few files that have changed.

bretm
Jul 17, 2002, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by el_aarono
Especially 10.2 - the fact that there is no upgrade path is sand in the face of everyone that has supported the OS from the beginning, even though it sucked rocks up until 10.1...



I recall S. Jobs saying to upgrade is only $19.99. Also, if this upgrade is like the 10.1 upgrade, you can walk down to your nearest Apple dealer and pick up a copy for free.

I could swear I heard Jobs say something like "And it only works with the upcoming Jaguar OS... which will be a free download from apple's website." I was jumping up and down. Whatever I heard was crystal clear in my mind. Plus, 2 months ago a rep from Apple (one that works AT apple - not a salesperson) told me that she was of the complete understand it would be FREE. So I doubted her and figured it would at least have a $20 shipping tag. Of course I could mail a CD for 37 cents, but I guess I've got some incredible connections with the post office or something.

But alas, the apple web site has the NERVE to actually list the price as... "Upgrade ONLY $129" Jeez. I won't be upping until my software requires it. And at that point I'll be wondering if I require those software upgrades.

richard5mith
Jul 17, 2002, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by backspinner
Hotmail is _still_ free. As soon as everybody else starts asking money for email services (well at least in my country free email has completely vanished), Microsoft soon will pull the plug as well. And nobody will fill the gap since if even Microsoft isn't able to run Hotmail-like services profitable, nobody will.

Advert laden sites and email do not qualify as free. Giving up some of your personal information for an MS Passport isn't good either.

http://www.evolt.org/article/Say_Goodbye_to_Free_Email/1/22939/?format=print

Both MS and Yahoo already offer subscription versions. It won't be long before they become subscription only. Giving stuff away for free is not good business practice, it does not work (especially in Apple's case where they're giving away over 2 million email accounts for nothing).

Moonlight
Jul 17, 2002, 03:55 PM
Can someone explain to me why iTunes 3 doesn't have mp4 (aac) audio support at all ? I can't listen, or convert to that format !! That is so stupid.:mad:

Tue12
Jul 17, 2002, 03:59 PM
After considerable thought, I've come to the conclusion that this MacWorld was a big stinky doo-doo - for all the reasons already posted.

To re-iterate:
MWNY02 - A Big stinky doo-doo.

synergy
Jul 17, 2002, 04:01 PM
QT6 with MPG4 rocked on my old lowly Wallstreet laptop. A few freezes but overall I was impressed.

Love the new iPods. Thinner is better. The iPod has more organization features as well too.

Also as to .Mac 100 dollar fee I am not sure if I will go for it. What Apple really needs to do is offer one year free of .Mac with the purchase of a computer or with the purchase of OS 10.2.
129 bucks for OS 10.2 is steep for me. I got 10.1 free earlier because of my job. I've seen recent deals selling OS 10.1 for 50 bucks. In all likelyhood I will wait to buy 10.2 unless I get some great deal on it off the bat.
I changed jobs so I no longer get the free OSes from them.

Apple should bundle the .Mac access as a selling point. Hook them and then keep them.

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by digitalbiker
Apple is in trouble! Their stock is down almost 20% today. Their 2nd quarter profits were way off from last year.


Buy on rumour, sell on news. Today is probably a particularly day to BUY apple stock or dollar cost average it. Or go long.

Rocketman

elgruga
Jul 17, 2002, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by dhdave


I was with you until you blamed "US" corporate culture. It's corporate culture period. If you don't think you have greed in Canada you are fooling yourself.

dh

Sorry, dhdave, I should have left out "US" - that was wrong.

It is clearly global corporate greed culture, and yes, its just the same here in Canada. (if not worse).
Apologies from the Frozen North!

Anyway, I want to keep my mac.com address and I will pay $20 a year for it.

Anybody wnat to pay more than that for JUST email?

Harthansen
Jul 17, 2002, 04:21 PM
This mac world sucked. Woo Hoo! Lets upgrade the already non-fully funtional OS-X 10.1.5 to OS-X 10.2 (a huge .5 jump) and it will only cost you a low price of $130. Even if you just bought you dual ghz a month and a half ago. Not to mention the new features are pretty much usless to anyone in the video/ graphic design fields. Except maybe the have gotten it to finally work right, and regained the ease of use the mac had with 9.2, hell OS-X is much more complicated then Windows XP. Granted OS-X is more stable, but try to uninstall something, try to turn off certian extensions, while leaving the rest on. Not mention you have to go out and buy all new software. Now they have the nerve to Charge you for a minor update! I have been a loyal Mac user for over 10 years. I have a PC as well, but thats just for games. I work in the video production area and do all that on the mac.
Besides the minor iMac update which is nice. This was the worse Mac World I have seen in a while. Apple is getting greedy and lazy. It almost makes me want to switch back to a PC.

gandalf55
Jul 17, 2002, 04:27 PM
every single macworld or announcement results in bitching and moaning... it's annoying already. i thought it was a great day except for 2 things:

1. upgrade path for Jag. I even bought the beta of X, and then full release. help me out a little Apple.

2. No AAC support in iTunes3. I however DID buy QT6Pro - so I can make my mp4s there... but can only use QTPlayer to listen to 'em? *COUGH*

rest was fine with me.

hackamacj
Jul 17, 2002, 04:28 PM
I am like every other person out there... How can I fork over 50 bucks for the 1st year, then 100 bucks every year after that, I am a student, at that a High School Student, Even though I am very Pro Mac, I SUPPORT MACS AT MY SCHOOL!!!! I do believe that this will make Apple lose some of their customers, I mean how many people would willingly put up 100 dollars a year for a storage on somebody elses server, why not get a cheap *ell, *ompaq *indows machine and put Darwin on it, enable WebDAV and there, your own server, then you could put an apple logo on it, I am starting to do that with one of my old Macs, and hopefully it will be better than paying Apple My SOUL. I don't really need new products, I need a Free Jaguar Upgrade, which will probably be on Limewire for all of that 1 day after its released, then I will get it for free, so I won't worry about that, even then, I can still get it half off with my Student Discount at Apple. I do believe that something like this will provide them with revenue, but how many people are going to actually try and buy this stuff.

MrEFord
Jul 17, 2002, 04:31 PM
Okay, it seems here that the majority of you guys complaining have been way too spoiled by Apple these last few years. iTools was such a godsend being free, but come on, even anyone with a little bit of common sense knew that Apple was seriously losing money performing all those services for free. Now they decide that its time to charge and everyone starts complaining and jumping ship. I've used iTools since its inception, and I'm going to pay to keep it. Sheesh, some people act like if they aren't satisfied they immediately have to go bash Apple and leave, where are you going to go? You really think Windoze is better? Please, people, think about these things before you go off saying how Apple sucks now and they've made a big mistake.

I agree, with what was said about this MacWorld sort of sounding like a sales pitch. Apple, like the rest of the computing industry is hurting. And when they need our support the most, all it seems people can do is turn their back. For shame.

-E

hackamacj
Jul 17, 2002, 04:36 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong here, I will stick with iTools, I have been signed up since I knew about it, although I do believe that 50 bucks for the 1st year is way too much, I mean come on, they make the xRaid, and the xServe, granted they have to pay for it, but they still make it, they could use their own products to run this, that means they don't really have to outsource, and that means lower costs, so whos making the bundle of money here? I mean, I would love to believe that they would spend all this money on the users, but do you see that?

pc2mac_convert
Jul 17, 2002, 04:37 PM
Up until a few days ago, I was still hoping/waiting/holding off purchasing for updated PM's. However, yesterday like some of you, I also came to grips with the fact that no new PM's would be intro'd.

We've been "switched"; Apple's "other" switch campaign.

Let me explain:
How many past MacWorlds have there been - with the exception of those this year - where everyone pretty much knew that new kit, specifically PM's, would be intro'd??? And what was the general attitude of the average Apple user/buyer? It was to hold off purchases until the "next" MacWorld... For all of you who've been saying that no new PM's would spell the death of Apple - you're wrong. And the story that Apple is sitting on a ton of powermacs??? I ordered a dual a couple of months ago and was told I wouldn't take delivery for almost a month - so I cancelled, in expectation of an update. The real story? Apple has been slowly "switching" its loyal "prosumers" to a new way of thinking... A new way of thinking not only regarding future product and its release, but about current product and its availability!

Before, prospective buyers would wait to buy kit (as mentioned above, I - like many others - did it this time around). Yet now, since no one knows "for sure" when new kit's coming, it makes sense to buy it when there's a deal - regardless of what's coming next because it could be a month from now, or it could be 6 months from now, or it could be 12 months from now.

Think about it - if Apple had intro'd new machines today, no matter how great, we might be somewhat satisfied with the specs, but we'd be griping about the fact that we'd have to wait 2+ months until delivery. So, in either case (updated PM or not), Apple would come out the loser. Sure - if they intro'd new PowerMacs today, they would've taken a sizeable amount of orders... But what would've happened 3 months from now... Sales would've dropped, and people would be holding off purchases again until January in SanFran, because everyone expects the elusive g5... That is, until now.

Now, we're beginning to think differently, realizing that Apple will intro new stuff how they want, when they want, and when its available (MacWorld or not). Think that Apple will intro g5's at sanfran? Think again; that's the old strategy... They'll wait until they're darn good and ready. Why? Because if they continue with their old strategy of placating the "prosumers" at every Macworld, they're left with this buying attitude: "I can get by with what I have now, could hold off my purchase for another 6 months, and then buy the latest and greatest because - as always -it'll be intro'd at the next macworld"... But, Apple doesn't want us to do that anymore, because that makes the sales cycle a little TOO predictable with sales dropping 3 months before each macworld in anticipation of new kit... then, stock dropping after every macworld because people are ticked about what was expected but not intro'd/stuff that was intro'd but not yet available, etc.... THAT is what would've killed Apple - not the "no new powermacs" or anything else; just the viscious cycle of millions of Apple "loyals" waiting to buy kit until the next macworld...
That buying attitude affected sales, stock, and even gave an edge to Apple's competitors... But, no longer.

New kit will be intro'd when its ready, and it will ship shortly thereafter. I'll even venture to state that we MAY (or may not) get new powermacs in August - noone really knows for sure, of course; and because of that, I bet there are a few more of you out there who are pondering the dual gig at a pretty darn good deal: and why not? Just sitting around waiting for the latest and greatest isn't going to make us any $.

It just makes sense - the "other" switch: people buying now, when stuff is available, rather than waiting until each macworld comes along. Why, its as big a concept, if not bigger, than getting windows users to switch to mac.

I'd venture to guess that at this point, given what's happened over the last 7 months, most Apple loyals will no longer spend the majority of their time drooling over what "could be" at the next MacWorld, but will be grateful for what "is available now" because its available, it does the job, and its a heck of a lot le$$ than it was a few months ago! (so we don't have updated PM's, at least the price whent down! How many of you have been asking for lower prices, and when we finally got them, you still held off your purchase because you believed that lower prices meant new powermacs...?) Sales will FINALLY stabalize, and those of you with Apple stock will finally see it go up again...

Yup. The "other" Apple switch campaign...

iwantanewmac
Jul 17, 2002, 04:56 PM
2 words.......it s***ed.
have you seen what those new imacs cost over here. (even without sales tax).........they wont sell em......
I have so many things to bitch about but im just to upset to type it all.....maybe later.

digital1
Jul 17, 2002, 04:56 PM
http://www.techtv.com/news/shownotes/story/0,24195,3391027,00.html

drastik
Jul 17, 2002, 05:03 PM
righton PC2Mac, you said that very intelligently and I think you are absolutely right. I haven't bout a new machine in two and a half years, and even if a four Ghz G5 had been released today, I still wouldn't becuase my three year old machines run fine and have all the power I need. Sure, they are a little slow next to the hotness thats out now, but so what. Everybody is in a rush when they should be thankful for what they have. I'm sick of people complaining because they can't spend daddy's money on a toy that they really don't have the power requirements to need.

Cool points are one thing, and actual useability is another. Anyone who uses a mac has a reason, and it isn't raw processing power.

digital1
Jul 17, 2002, 05:05 PM
You made a good point their drastik... I agree...:D

Horne
Jul 17, 2002, 05:07 PM
Well said that man (pc2mac_convert).

It reminds me a bit of car sales here in the UK.

They used to be sold once a year, and the market was 'false' for this period.
Now it is twice a year, but with new fangled registration plates resulting in noone remembering which one is for which year etc. Now there is not such a kind-of-false market, and people aren't looking out for the next new big thing quite as much.

Car dealers are MUCH happier now as sales are spread over the whole year.

Similarities?

You decide....

trodel_post
Jul 17, 2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by hitman


And you know that how? :rolleyes:

Public knowledge: http://news.com.com/2100-1040-885666.html

dhdave
Jul 17, 2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by drastik:

Anyone who uses a mac has a reason, and it isn't raw processing power.
I respectfully, but totally, disagree drastik. The RISC architecture in the Macintosh already has more "raw processing power" than X86.
My Mac is a 6 year old 7500 with a 200mhz processor card from a 9500. I am 32 with a family, so the only "Daddy's money" I'm spending is my own. I'm thankful for what I have, but it's about time for an upgrade. While I'd love dual processors and actually could USE them, I can't afford them. What I CAN afford is a faster system bus with DDR and that's what I'm hoping for with the next PM. I will still buy it on the low end and upgrade it as I can, and it will have to last for years. (And of course I know it will)

dh

Mr.Hey
Jul 17, 2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by King Cobra
Honestly, I am extremely disappointed, since I could not see 99% of the broadcast.
.

I saw 99% of the broadcast and then in the last few minutes it cut off :mad: but the feed was very clear and the audio was nearly perfect, very impressed with QT6. I was generally happy with MWNY and can't understand the reaction people are having with what was released iTunes 3 its off the hook. Do you think the disappointment that people are having with this years MWNY could have something to do with Mac rumors sites and the level of expectation they helped build in your minds and when it was impossible to be realisticly reached you have the nerve to blame Apple? (no wonder steve wants to do away with them).

The iApps will continue to be free that will not change so what's the problem.They improved some of the hardware and next month they'll update the pro-line so again what are people bitching about, innovation coast money ideas can't be given away. I can't believe that this service charge of .Mac is over shadowing the bigger picture of what Apple is trying to do here. Their former slogan was "Think different" not "Think small" and if you didn't like those maybe you should try this one "Don't worry be happy":p

sneed
Jul 17, 2002, 05:30 PM
I never thought the iTools were worth the trouble in the first place, but the kind of cost they're talking about is nothing. Hosting ain't cheap. You oughta see my bills sometime. Hell, the write-off I take is more than what Apple is asking for, considerably more. Get a grip.

As for the show, I am somewhat less than excited, but I think Apple's strategy makes sense. They are not going to double their marketshare by going after the pro market, they just aren't. If they can bring more consumers into the fold with iMacs, iApps, iDevices, etc., you are going to see more third party apps, more R&D, your current investment will be safer, and ultimately, there will be a bigger need for pro equipment.

Oh, If you think that faster means more interest, think again. Consumers don't generally use the speed they already have, and upgrading doesn't make sense to them. Now, giving them new ways to use their computers in daily life, and make it easy for them, that's another story.

My prediction is that consumer products will dominate future MacWorlds for a long time to come. Pro-only announcements, on the other hand, will be a lot softer and spread out.

CedMan
Jul 17, 2002, 05:31 PM
I am a totally disappointed new mac user.

So I decided to switch from PC to Mac about 37 days ago.

I have bought myself a top of the line iMac G4 800, thought I will love it, and I did, it comes with OSX 10.15 and all that, nice.

Then I go get myself the ipod 10 Gig, it came in a little over a week ago.

Now I am totally pissed off because my 1 week old ipod has a price reduction of $100 US plus new model

My 37 days old imac has been replaced with one with a bigger screen/harddrive for the same price.

And I have to pay $129 for the crappy upgrade to OSX 10.2.

Apple, there is a reason why there are still so many PC users, they don't get shaft like that, never. Microsoft might be bad but I think this is rediculous. And what's with those OS upgrade coupons included with my imac, are they like wasted or what???

Man I am pissed off!!!

job
Jul 17, 2002, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by CedMan
And what's with those OS upgrade coupons included with my imac, are they like wasted or what???

Use those coupons to get 10.2 at a reduced price. :rolleyes:

What else were you planing on using them for?

sneed
Jul 17, 2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by CedMan
I am a totally disappointed new mac user.

So I decided to switch from PC to Mac about 37 days ago.

I have bought myself a top of the line iMac G4 800, thought I will love it, and I did, it comes with OSX 10.15 and all that, nice.

Then I go get myself the ipod 10 Gig, it came in a little over a week ago.

Now I am totally pissed off because my 1 week old ipod has a price reduction of $100 US plus new model

My 37 days old imac has been replaced with one with a bigger screen/harddrive for the same price.

And I have to pay $129 for the crappy upgrade to OSX 10.2.

Apple, there is a reason why there are still so many PC users, they don't get shaft like that, never. Microsoft might be bad but I think this is rediculous. And what's with those OS upgrade coupons included with my imac, are they like wasted or what???

Man I am pissed off!!!

Is this your first computer purchase? There is always something bigger, faster, cheaper around the bend. Pissed at Apple? Be pissed at yourself for buying a month before MWNY.

the future
Jul 17, 2002, 05:45 PM
Just a few points.

The mpeg4 broadcast was flawless.
All the new Apps are fantastic.
Banging on about how great AAC is and not including it in iTunes 3 is ridiculous but will be altered very soon.
It was a software-centered Expo and as such really really good.
The 17' iMac is just sexy.
The .mac scheme sucks a little.
Every Keynote is good entertainment.
If you think you'll find a Wintel box that is substantially faster than a dual 1 Gig Power Mac you're completely insane.

BlueDjinn
Jul 17, 2002, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by bretm

Business users can't afford NOT to pay for the service. It would cost them more money to send out the email change notifications. Maybe they should have a new iCard... Hey! I've just dropped my expensive email account. You can now find me at @hotmail.com.

bretm--

I may be wrong, but I don't believe iTools was EVER intended for business use; in fact, it's possible that there was something in the original sign-up agreement that stated something along those lines. It was really meant for personal use--family photos, home movies, etc etc.

No offense intended, but anyone running a business should know better than to utilize a free service for something as crucial as web hosting/e-mail anyway. If you were opening a physical store and someone offered you free rent without asking anything in return, would you trust your entire enterprise to that? Same thing with a business website--find a reliable hosting service with reasonable rates and register your own domain name.

--BlueDjinn

p.s. however, I do agree that they should have also offered some sort of stripped-down "basic" version for free (or $20/year or whatever) instead of a double-or-nothing deal.

Mr.Hey
Jul 17, 2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by sneed


Is this your first computer purchase? There is always something bigger, faster, cheaper around the bend. Pissed at Apple? Be pissed at yourself for buying a month before MWNY.


True, it happens to almost everyone. I bought my iBook in April and a couple of weeks later the 700mhz model was released, am I mad about it HELL no I love my iBook and I think of it this way, I'm paying my dues, literally :D

CedMan said "Crappy ugrade"???

ha

when its released you up UPgrade will here a different tune from you.

Ramble
Jul 17, 2002, 05:48 PM
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2000/jan/05netstrategy.html

Hmmm, "mac users can do things pc users only dream about" nice BS apple

Apple Unveils Internet Strategy

iTools - A Revolutionary New Category of Internet Services
KidSafe - Finally a Way to Protect Our Kids on the Internet

MACWORLD EXPO, SAN FRANCISCO—January 5, 2000—Apple® today took the wraps off its highly
anticipated Internet strategy, introducing a new category of Internet services called iTools; a completely
redesigned Apple.com web site featuring iReview and iCards; and a multi-year partnership and investment
with Earthlink for Internet access (see related release).

iTools is a revolutionary new category of Internet services that takes advantage of Apple’s unique technology on both ends of the Internet—the operating system on the client side (Mac® OS 9) and the services software running on Apple’s Internet servers (iTools). Providing the software on both ends of the Internet offers Apple the unprecedented ability to offer services impossible to implement solely on Internet servers.

“Our new iReviews, iCards and the revolutionary iTools offer amazing new ways for Mac users to take full
advantage of the Internet,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s iCEO. “Mac users can now do things on the Internet that Wintel users can only dream of.”

iTools is free to Macintosh® users running the Mac OS 9 operating system, and can be accessed at Apple.com using any Internet connection. Apple’s first four iTools premiere today:

[. . .]
Mac.com, an email service run by Apple. Mac.com gives users an exclusive address on the Internet
and works with standard POP email clients, such as Outlook Express, Eudora and Netscape
Communicator. Mac.com users can easily set up automatic replies and forwarding of their email to
other email addresses, and configure Outlook Express for their Mac.com mailbox from a simple webpage;
iDisk, 20 megabytes of personal Internet-based storage on Apple’s Internet Servers. iDisk is an
entirely new way to store, transfer and share files over the Internet, and it’s as easy as using a folder
on your Mac® desktop; and HomePage, the easiest way to build your own personal web site in less than 10 minutes and host it on Apple’s Internet servers. Your personal web site can include electronic photo albums, iMovies™, resumes, announcements, etc., and you can update it as often as you like. HomePage sites are created and managed from an easy-to-use web page, and can easily incorporate materials such as photos and iMovies which have been copied onto the author’s iDisk.

“In addition to being an educator, I’m also a parent, and KidSafe is a very simple and straightforward way to protect both students and my kids from inappropriate web sites,” said Jeff Anderson, director of Information Services and Technology for Deer Valley Unified School District in Glendale, AZ. “KidSafe allows you to put the computer back in your child’s room without having to worry about what web sites they have access
to.”

[. . .]
The newly redesigned Apple.com web site features iReview and iCards. iReview is the Internet’s finest web site review guide, with web sites reviewed and rated by Apple. iReview currently contains over 250 reviewed and rated sites, with over 1,000 expected by summer 2000. iCards is Apple’s electronic greeting card site, offering premium greetings cards that can be sent and viewed via standard email.

On the new Apple.com, iTools, iReview and iCards join the existing online Store, QuickTime™ and Support areas in a tab bar which is always at the top of every page on the site, dramatically increasing the visibility of these highly-trafficked areas.

Pricing and Availability
Membership to iTools is free to Macintosh users running Mac OS 9. iReview and iCards are free to all
computer users. iTools, iReview and iCards are available at Apple’s web site at www.apple.com via any
Internet connection.

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II, and reinvented the personal
computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Apple is now recommitted to its original mission—to bring the
best personal computing products and support to students, educators, designers, scientists, engineers,
businesspersons and consumers in over 140 countries around the world.

BobVB
Jul 17, 2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Hey

Do you think the disappointment that people are having with this years MWNY could have something to do with Mac rumors sites and the level of expectation they helped build in your minds and when it was impossible to be realisticly reached you have the nerve to blame Apple? (no wonder steve wants to do away with them).

Nope.
Charging $49 for a previously free email address,
No modern tech or decently powered PowerMacs (hasn't Apple heard of Moore's law?)
No upgrade price of 10.2 - $129 for everyone.

These are all disappointments in and of themselves - they would be disappointing if there wasn't a single rumor site on the planet.

BOOMBA
Jul 17, 2002, 05:58 PM
Are they REALLY charging people who have OS 10.1 $129 to upgrade to 10.2?!?!?

The speed enhancements it is supposed to have are swell and all, but the speed should have been there BEFORE THEY RELEASED OS X.0.0!!

I can't believe someone (ME!) who used (PAID FOR) the beta of OSX, then PAID FOR the REAL OSX.o, then PAID the UPGRADE TO OS X.1, now has to PAY FULL PRICE FOR THE %&@#ing UPGRADE TO 10.2!!!

What was the point of switching to OSX, and being one of the faithful early adopters, if I could just have waited until the OSX was viable and worked well, and paid once and saved $150!?!?

I mean, iChat and iSync and all are swell, but I will never use them!!!
Maybe 1% of mac users might try to use the cel phone sync thing. Less will use Ink, and I have a huge Wacom tablet!

All I want is a faster and more stable OS.

Damn.

At least if they called the thing OS 11 or something, just to ease the psychological stress!

I wish "Apple" had an "s" in it so we could start using the "$" like in Micro$oft.

I just got an e-mail from $Apple's mailing list, letting me know Jaguar will be available soon, and I can buy it for $129, or buy a new Mac.

WOW!
REALLY?!?
CAN I?!?!

THAT WOULD BE GREAT!

YOU *%$#@%&!

Mr.Hey
Jul 17, 2002, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by BobVB


Nope.
Charging $49 for a previously free email address,
No modern tech or decently powered PowerMacs (hasn't Apple heard of Moore's law?)
No upgrade price of 10.2 - $129 for everyone.

These are all disappointments in and of themselves - they would be disappointing if there wasn't a single rumor site on the planet.



The innovators of the personal computer? yes I think they've heard of moore. And who told you it wouldn't cost $49 or be free Rumor Sites!!!. It costs what it costs
and so you understand its not an upgrade

Apple taken for granted, I think so.

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 05:59 PM
try telling discreet or the makers/users of maya that macs have plenty of power. they do not, well, not my 450. and even my bros dual 800 does not fly with the above.

power users are those using software that makes demands...demands that the current lineup struggles to meet.

elgruga
Jul 17, 2002, 06:04 PM
Hotmail and Yahoo mail are FREE. Thats the truth.
Why are they free? Its called ADVERTISING. mac.com addresses advertise Apple constantly - maybe 2 million free ads a day.
Now we have to pay to advertise Apple? OK, but not $100.

mac.com at $100 is overpriced, ad more to the point, if you are going to start selling services, give the customer CHOICE!
(I will pay $20 for my mac.com address - I dont need no stinking Virus 'protection' or a few megs of space on ssome remore server, thanks.

OSX isnt catching on so well because not all the software is available (no Quark etc.)
Just because Apple decide to build new OS doesnt mean that all the software companies out there have new features and upgrades at the same time.

Office X has no real advantages over Office2001 on OS9. Oh, its slower, so you get more time to reflect on edits......

The hardware is falling a long way behind - the PowerPC chip isnt getting much dev. cash. Why? Because IBM and Motorola are doing there own things
and Apple doesnt sell enough computers to force development along.

Yes, I did JUST buy a new G4 powerbook 667. $4800 CAD dollars and its got 10.1.4. When did I buy it? 10 days ago.

Do I want a free upgrade? NO. I just want a paid upgrade, not a $200 CAD "new" OS - because its just an upgrade, right?

I am prepared to pay $75 CAD for it.

Do I care about the ********** iPod? NO. I have a 5 gig, its great. 10 gig? 20 gig? A hard drive of 30 gig capacity is available for about $150 CAD. Toshiba.
I have a FireWire case with a 6 gig in it, Oxford 911 chip, perfect for backup.

I dont want 4000 songs on my iPod - thats just silly. I have over 5 days of music on my itunes, I just switch them around on the 'pod now and again.

Theres a lot wrong with Apple, and a lot right.
However, hosing the customers is a bad thing.

I still will not use Windows etc. - Apple for all their faults is still where I do my computing.

IndyGopher
Jul 17, 2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by ImAlwaysRight



Hmmm, let's think about this. Last July's mid-range PowerMac was 867MHz Quicksilver. How far have we progressed in one year? 933MHz Quicksilver. A whole freaking 50MHz on the mid-powermac? Whooppie! I can't chill when I'm this excited. Sure, it has the same 133MHz bus, but, man, we've gone up 50MHz on the mid-range PowerMac over the time span of a year! Yeah! This ought to get people switching left and right!

it may not be immediately evident, but there is sarcasm in the above paragraph

Umm.. the high end isn't 933.. and it hasn't been for 6 months.

BobVB
Jul 17, 2002, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Hey
The innovators of the personal computer? yes I think they've heard of moore. And who told you it wouldn't cost $49 or be free Rumor Sites!!!. It costs what it costs
and so you understand its not an upgrade

Apple taken for granted, I think so.

Gosh, a troll ;)

If apple has heard of Moore's law you surely don't see it from their CPUs. And it was apple that gave out the free email addresses to apple owners. And 10.2 following 10.1.5 isn't an upgrade? How do you figure that?

Its Apple thats taking their users for granted. I've owned a Mac since the first day they were available, but at this expo was very disappointing.

Billicus
Jul 17, 2002, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by discolove
I just sent this to Apple. I'm not that happy at the moment.


Dear Mr/Miss,

I just read through the FAQ and noticed that you are going to deactivate my @mac.com email unless I pay $49.99 before 30 September.

Honestly, I've never had a single complaint about Apple before and, as soon as I've had a chance, I have always recommended your products and services to friends of mine.
Because of this my best friend and his girlfriend changed from an @hotmail.com email to a @mac.com email a couple of weeks ago. I feel quite sorry for them since their email accounts now will be deleted.

As I mentioned earlier I've never had anything bad to say about Apple but now I do. I feel deeply dissapointed and don't think that I'll ever defend Apple, as I've always done before, again.

I suppose that you will receive a lot of complaints like this and just trash my email straight away but if you decide to reply I would prefer not to have a standard reply saying that you are doing it for the customer and that you're improving the service and so on.

Best regards,
Mikael who used to be a very happy Mac user.

Dang. You beat me to it. I would have said the exact same thing. I feel so abandoned by Apple with this development.

sneed
Jul 17, 2002, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by BobVB


Gosh, a troll ;)

If apple has heard of Moore's law you surely don't see it from their CPUs. And it was apple that gave out the free email addresses to apple owners. And 10.2 following 10.1.5 isn't an upgrade? How do you figure that?

Its Apple thats taking their users for granted. I've owned a Mac since the first day they were available, but at this expo was very disappointing.

Well, I've heard about Moore's Law, and so have you, apparently, but what does that have to do with anything? Moore's Law does not say that processing power has to double every 18 mos. to be useful, just that it will double every 18 months, and even then, Moore himself, has acknowledged that that rate will slow down.

That said, you are very clever... about Apple not hearing of Moore's Law I mean. It was even more clever the second time.

backspinner
Jul 17, 2002, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Ramble
iTools is free to Macintosh® users running the Mac OS 9 operating system, and can be accessed at Apple.com using any Internet connection.

SJ burried OS9 not long ago so now we have to pay for iTools...

Mr.Hey
Jul 17, 2002, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by BobVB


Gosh, a troll ;)


You see what happens when you call me a troll you loose an eye :D don't mess with me. I ****en love this computer maker yes thats right LOVE.



Oh shut up your bunch of freeloaders:p

;) My eye, my eye who did that!!!!!

BobVB
Jul 17, 2002, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by sneed
Well, I've heard about Moore's Law, and so have you, apparently, but what does that have to do with anything?

Because as long as the other side of the house is keeping up with it, Apple needs to too if they plan on selling computers in quantity. The further behind they get the less likely they are going to sell units. Ice that cake with charging for a previously free email address and charging full price for an OS upgrade and you have a sorry piece of pastry.

Again, very disappointing.

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by gelbin
try telling discreet or the makers/users of maya that macs have plenty of power. they do not, well, not my 450. and even my bros dual 800 does not fly with the above.

power users are those using software that makes demands...demands that the current lineup struggles to meet.

Simple. Buy 4 x-serve boxes as your desktop unit and have 8 processors on a real bus.

Rocketman

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by BobVB


Its Apple thats taking their users for granted. I've owned a Mac since the first day they were available, but at this expo was very disappointing.

To say it is taking its users for granted is unfair. Yes in a recession they are raising revenue in new areas. Not having an email only cripple-price for dot-mac is bad. They should change that based on consumer feedback, yes, even from rumour sites.

But the massive innovation in software to add speed, features, connectivity and "vertical market support" may very well be nothing short of astounding. Yes they are charging $130 for it. And I also agree early adopters and repeat adopters are getting shafted. There should be a $40 discount for EVERY OSX lisence you paid for and own.

But with these exceptions in Apple pricing errors, I think we all can agree, that Macs simply do more stuff, more reliably, with a longer life span, and at a comparible price than a PC and its associated software, peripherals, add-ons, etc to achieve a poor equivelent of capability. Even if macs were 30% more money that would still be a great vlaue.

Yes a few things are wack. I hope Apple responds to correct as they have in past debacles. And for users of the full range of dot-mac services $100 is a good deal. The problem lies with low end users who effectively used it only because it was free and now are being charged *infinitely more* than before.

Rocketman

mdman
Jul 17, 2002, 06:44 PM
I'm a recent convert to Mac from PC. The main reason I moved from PC to Mac was because I hated the whole Product Activation crap, and the move to .net. And now it seems like Apple is following M$.

I understand Apple is a business, but did they not take into account the current recession, and bad economy. I mean 1.5 million workers have been laid off in the last year in the US alone (me being one of them). This would not seem like a good time to start milking your customers for more revenue.

You are correct M$ can do it, but they have 95-97% of the industry. So it's not going to matter to them if 10 or 15% percent of PC users don't go along with .net or software as a service. But with Apple only holding a 3-5% share, I would think they might be a little worried if the majority of their users don't sign up for this service. I think it would not only look bad PR wise, but it would look bad to investers as well, no?

Maybe they started charging for .mac because they need the money after buying up all those software companies?

And I agree with the one poster who said, what good are those upgrade coupons that came with my mac, if I have to pay full price?

I sure will miss my .mac email address.

Also I'm glad that a good deal of people on here can afford the full upgrade price and the money for .mac. But I don't think that entitles you to belittle others because they are not in your same income bracket. I don't think people choose to have lower incomes.

What do y'all think?

Cheers,

MDMAN

sneed
Jul 17, 2002, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by BobVB


Because as long as the other side of the house is keeping up with it, Apple needs to too if they plan on selling computers in quantity. The further behind they get the less likely they are going to sell units. Ice that cake with charging for a previously free email address and charging full price for an OS upgrade and you have a sorry piece of pastry.

Again, very disappointing.

Not to nit-picky, but one of the primary reasons behind AMD and Intel's poor performance of late is that while their speeds have been increasing, the majority of the software out there doesn't need the processing power. If Moore's Law meant that consumers would clamor for increased processing power every 18 months, AND that were true, then you might have something.


:)

sneed
Jul 17, 2002, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by BobVB


Gosh, a troll ;)

If apple has heard of Moore's law you surely don't see it from their CPUs. And it was apple that gave out the free email addresses to apple owners. And 10.2 following 10.1.5 isn't an upgrade? How do you figure that?

Its Apple thats taking their users for granted. I've owned a Mac since the first day they were available, but at this expo was very disappointing.

Well, I've heard about Moore's Law, and so have you, apparently, but what does that have to do with anything? Moore's Law does not say that processing power has to double every 18 mos. to be useful, just that it will double every 18 months, and even then, Moore himself, has acknowledged that that rate will slow down.

That said, you are very clever... about Apple not hearing of Moore's Law I mean. It was even more clever the second time.

zulgand04
Jul 17, 2002, 07:05 PM
this is for everyone ranting bout the new .Mac service. I do agree ita a bit expensive, but Steve Jobs is right the days of the free internet are over. i just read a artical about M$ MSN explorer will charge a fee for useing the browser even if u don't have a MSN interent. Hotmails down to 2 megs of space now, soon it'll be none for free. Times have changed and in the state of this economy is not helping with all these charges. But most people who like the service will pay the extra for it.

thats my 2 cents

digitalbiker
Jul 17, 2002, 07:12 PM
If this were Microsoft taking free services away and intentionally moving users to a pay for service only strategy. Or if it were Microsoft performing an operating system upgrade and charging all users the same price with no upgrade path. Then you guys would be bashing Microsoft and using it as ammo for future PC Vs. MAC rants!

Well now that it is Apple's, turn to ***** all over it's loyal users. You guys are still acting like Steve Jobs and Apple are made of gold and could never do any wrong. Well wise up! Apple & Steve Jobs care about one thing (Their pocketbooks!).

Woz was the soul of Apple! Jobs is the A**hole of Apple!

Ramble
Jul 17, 2002, 07:15 PM
Woz was the soul of Apple! Jobs is the A**hole of Apple! [/B]

here here!!!

beatle888
Jul 17, 2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by DeepDish
We need to e-mail Apple to ask them to create an @mac.com light option.


yep, been thinken the same thang:cool:

Shane
Jul 17, 2002, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by Rocketman


Buy on rumour, sell on news. Today is probably a particularly day to BUY apple stock or dollar cost average it. Or go long.

Rocketman
But Apples stock price was tanking before the keynote to. Apple stock just sucks right now. The consumer line up isn't bad but the pro hardware needs some help. And why are they charging for e-mail. They aren't getting any money from me for that.
Shane

liquid_sky
Jul 17, 2002, 07:31 PM
Ok, see all of your points here, but here is my story:
I own (and work) with a G4 867 + 10.1.5 and I am very satisfied with it. Actually this is my second mac after switching from peecee to mac 2 years ago ;)
A week ago, I just bought a new peecee (!) just for rendering and playing games and paid about 1000 Euros for it, which is a pretty nice deal for GeForce 4 Ti, 2 GHz AMD, 512 DDR Ram, 80 GB HD etc. I run Win 2k on it...
A lot of you Mac moaners are going to say "yeah god deal! See, peecees are cheaper and more up-to-date. blablabla...
True.
BUT...
I needed a freakin whole week to get it set up properly with all these stupid BIOS Settings and all the driver updates and all that BS... Ok it runs now, but it is still nowhere as stable as my beloved mac!
And it reminded me of how much more value you get with an Apple Computer!!! Ok, you pay a little more, but it runs perfectly! It has a lot of nice FREE (still...) things like iTunes, iDVD etc...
And you set it up and it is just runnin' and runnin'.
Anyway, a faster machine doesn't make a better designer, no matter what she/he does (web/3D) Ok, time is money, but I think sooo many people here have pretty decent machines, that they are just used to it. Maybe we take too many things for granted these days (iTools, etc.... same thing there)

People, lay back and think about it! Your machines are hell better and faster than those peecees! And why is everybody bitching about speed, speed, speed. We will get speed wit 10.2. Agree with BS $ 130 (160 Euros here, which is even more compared to $), but again think about 10.1! that was free!
Also, think about the industry these days! It has a hard time now, and we can't do anything about it. What would you do if you would own apple? Everything for free?? Or for such less fees, that you even start to loose money...?
Think about it an start Thinking Different (again)

peace

beatle888
Jul 17, 2002, 07:37 PM
jeeze.....does this mean that by the time OSXI comes out
i would of spent $1032.00 Dollars on OS upgrades.....damn.
It's steep if you ask me.

after jaguar I think I'll melow out on things apple.....maybe
wait till OSXI or something before spending more money...
I understand we're getting alot of new apps and stuff so
if that price is for this UPGRADE only and not every .0 update
then I guess thats cool.

Early adoption is what apple needs from their customers....
but early adoption is just getting to expensive.

ladrums1000
Jul 17, 2002, 07:40 PM
Attached is a letter I just wrote apple. I encourage everyone who has recently bought a new mac with OSX.1.4 to write apple as well.

Dear Apple,

On May 29, 2002 I purchased a brand new $2,500 (twenty-five HUNDRED dollar) Powerbook G4. It came with OSX.1.4. You have now announced that Jaguar OSX.2 will be released in late August (that is only 3 months after I purchased my computer), and I am now expected to dish out another $130 to upgrade my operating system. This is not even a brand new operating system, it is an update to an existing operating system. (many of these items included on Jaguar are things that should have already existed in OSX.1, but instead OSX was released before these things were operational to start making money on OSX). I think it is very unfair and a bad business practice to make me pay this money to upgrade an operating system that is only 3 months old for me. I can understand charging someone who is running OS9, but to charge customers that have just purchased a new computer just doesn't make any sense, especially since it will come loaded on new systems. It is not the money that upsets me, because I can easily afford the $129, it is the principle of the matter.

I am a recent convert back to Apple. My first computer when I was 16 was an Apple 2+, and I moved over to a PC when windows came out. I really liked the new OSX system, as well as the look and functionality of the new powerbooks, which is why I came back. Now, after only 3 months, I am questioning myself as to why I came back. I thought that Apple was different that microsoft, but now feel that I should call you Macrosoft.

Will you please forward my issues and concerns to upper management. I hope you will re-think your OSX upgrade policy and give those people who recently purchased a new mac computer a free upgrade to OSX.2

SARUPA

beatle888
Jul 17, 2002, 07:47 PM
to the above post

it will probably fall on deaf ears, but im gonna write them too.

Grokgod
Jul 17, 2002, 07:50 PM
I found this Mac World to be MORE than disappointing.

I found it to be a SLAP in the face and HUMILATING!

Ok ok OK,,, The concept that APPLE is trying to change expectations of what to expect from a Mac World, is an obvious one.

Sadly it's obviously stupid!

Its a MAC WORLD, not a run to the corner 7-11

No matter what people are ALWAYS going to expect something great, or why the hell even bother having it!
People hold off from buying units because the TECH isnt useful!

I am sick of lame guys that say speed isnt needed, You guys need to buy a turtle and run your apps on it. Or better yet go back to paper and pencil!
You dont need a computer!

My Brand new iMac cant play a simple new game like WARCRAFT 3 properly!

Let alone get any work done, hell it doesnt run its OWN OS properly!

SO macworld <its deserves lower case> is now for what?
Just to point at everything and pat themselves on the back?

Because thats the way it came off.
As a slow witted slap on their hunchback!
LOOK we have iCHAT,the best in the world.

FOrget the fact that ICQ has been doing all of that for YEARS ALREADY!
PUHLEASE! what lame losers, they make MAc users look so stupid and OLD!
Do they really think that anyone is being fooled?
I think that they do! How pathetic!

Oh yea then the slap in the face.
One more thing,,, the OSX you paid money for that hasnt worked properly for over a year! Hell I forgot when the hell it finally could burn cd's.

Is now going to cost you more Money because we know we can abuse you and that there isnt anywhere for you to go~ LOL You going to Wintel?

Oh yea On more thing, there isnt going to be an upgrade reduction its all the same costs, no fee reduction for the users that helped make OSX useable with early adoption! LOL

Oh yea and one more thing, we SUCKERED you into using our internet email for free so that we could develop a user base. So that when we SWITCHED to PAY you are likely to come along because you dont want to change your email address, again! Are you kidding, its wasnt ALL that for free!

Telling us the companies that already failed at what your doing isnt a good sign.

Oh YEA, ONE more thing!
NOTHING!
NO, new hardware, no new POWERMACS for the STARVING PROs. No hints, no announcements, no hope, no intelligence on stage.

Just a couple of old guys sending foolish messages to each other across the stage.
With an app that as boring as JOBS has become.

If I wasnt being abused SO badly by this company I would be asleep at 6am instead of watching this theatre of the insane!

YAWN~


ADDED~ Ladrums! I agree with you.

We NEED to send a message to APPLE!!!
We are NOT stupid, and WE are NOT buying any more CRAP from you!
Get it together or GET LOST!

Snowy_River
Jul 17, 2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Shane

And why are they charging for e-mail. They aren't getting any money from me for that.
Shane

To quote a cliche, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Apple has to pay for the bandwidth. Apple has to pay for the disk space. Apple has to pay for the technicians to make sure that the servers are all up and running properly. Why should Apple give away the service for free? Because they have up until now? (Aside: I think that there should be a light version for just email, too, but Apple does seem to like making premium service part of their reputation.)

And, about the new Power Macs, how about we wait a month and see what's in store for us then. Patience is a virtue. :)

Peace...

Draft
Jul 17, 2002, 07:52 PM
I think that your complaint is fair. Another group that shouldn't have to pay are the people who just bought OS X. They wouldn't have just bought it if they knew that a new OS, that they would have to re-pay for, would soon be out. Also, a free upgrade is pushing it. I just bought a mac about 2 or so months ago, and I think that a reasonable price for an upgrade is $50-70, not a 129 UPGRADE(because an upgrade is exactly what it is). There are new features, and I think that people should have to pay for the features, but, again, not $129.

I don't know if I already posted it here, but another thing that I'm furious about is the fact that you have to pay for a mac.com email address now. That's just wrong.

I thought that apple would be better then to stoop to these tactics. Terrible.


Draft

beatle888
Jul 17, 2002, 07:59 PM
HERE HERE!

:eek:

damn I mean give me a break on the speed improvements
that should of already been there when they release OSX
I IF I want your ichat, your ical (which I dont), WATSON/Sherlock3
then I'll purchase it from 3rd parties........or even a freeware version....
I dont know just dont screw me damn it.


oh yea, didnt steve look nervous up there, like gee are they
gonna let me get away with sticken it to them like this....******* no.
Im not, if I want that abuse I can get it without paying for it.

I'm pissed, and I dont care about how fair some of you think it is,
I bought the beta, the osx, the osx.1 free update (but pay for shipping).
Cause I was supporting the apple innovation and what do they do....
jeeze they WILL NOT get my support as being an earlier adaptor until
I say otherwise.

gandalf55
Jul 17, 2002, 08:07 PM
You guys remember paying for "classic" OS upgrades? I sure do. I agree with everyone that if you bought OSX, you should have an upgrade path. $75 would be fine with me. $130 is steep. I paid the $25 or whatever it was for the beta. Then I paid $125 for the full-on thing. Now $130 for OSX.2. If it gets me true finder networking with Win servers, i'll smile. if its faster, excellent. the OS is maturing and it costs a lot in R&D to do that. About .Mac, I think it's okay to charge for iTools now, but free emails (tiny accounts) would still be cool. Esp. for kids.

The iPod news was the party for me today. Rendevous was interesting, as well as iSync. Very nice.

Apple - upgrade path please? That would make so many happy...

CedMan
Jul 17, 2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by sneed


Is this your first computer purchase? There is always something bigger, faster, cheaper around the bend. Pissed at Apple? Be pissed at yourself for buying a month before MWNY.

No this is not my first computer purchase, but all my other computer purchases I was taken care of for upgrades. You do not release something with such major upgrade with the same price, not in the PC world, they will reduce the price of the existing to be replaced hardware, then release new one. Apple doesn't do that, they charges full price for the hardware and then release a new one 6 months later.

Also, for someone who just switched from the PC, I don't have no idea what the hell MWNY is until I got my mac and get myself into the mac world. Not to mention the fact that apple doesn't even ever mention it on the web page. Call me a loser if you like but I think it is extremely bad business practice to do things like that, expsecially the fact that they take itool away and ask me to pay for the OS upgrade, both of them should have been paid for and included in the price of my computer. And apple is trying to convince PC user to switch? What a joke. The Dell that I purchased before windows XP come out includes a coupon that I can mail in to recieve my FREE copy of windows XP when it comes out and it's 3 months before it is officially out. We are talking about MAJOR OS upgrade here, not a "dot" upgarde.

gregorypierce
Jul 17, 2002, 08:15 PM
Many people here mistakingly believe that the coupons that have shipped with OSX/new machines apply to upgrades of the OS to 10.2 - they do not.

I have confirmed this fact by contacting the Apple store at 1-800-my-apple. The sales representative confirmed two of my fears:

a) there is no plan to offer an upgrade price for 10.2

b) the coupons that ship with your machine are not valid for upgrading from .1->.2.

To confirm this fact I went off to the Apple website where people have been quoting that the up-to-date stuff is valid for 10.2. The Terms on the Up-To-Date form clearly state that the machine would have to have been purchased on or after July 17th in order to be valid so there is *NO* Up-To-Date option for existing MacOS 10.1 users - regardless of when you purchased your machine.


So my friends, fellow switchers, and folks who think different.... we're hosed. Unless Apple changes their plans in some way, we're all out of 129 (bootleggers notwithstanding), and that completely sucks and simply sends the wrong message to anyone who just "switched" to the platform.

To do this in the midst of a marketing campaign to convert new users is just plain stupid. :mad:

CedMan
Jul 17, 2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by hitman


Use those coupons to get 10.2 at a reduced price. :rolleyes:

What else were you planing on using them for?

Exactly what I thought, but how? As I have mentioned a number of times I never used it and I don't know how to use them, there are no instruction whatsoever????

j763
Jul 17, 2002, 08:19 PM
Originally posted by dongmin
For that $4 a month, you get:

Virex 7.1
...


WOW!!! A free copy of Virex 7!!!!!!! Apple is so generous giving us a completely useless piece of shi.. er.... software. Ive got a copy of Virex 7 right here and it's got to be one of the worst apps for OS X. There is no automatic protection feature, you have to manually scan stuff, no speedscan technology and best of all.... Guess how many Virex Developers there are??? ONE. That's right -- one developer. Virus updates will just be rushing out the door, i'm sure.

Bundling useless $#!+ with .mac doesn't make me happy that apple are going to charge me $49USD to keep my email working. I don't want virex, i don't want backup, i don't want homepage, i don't want iDisk. WTF don't they let you customize what options you want and revise the price for it????

CedMan
Jul 17, 2002, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by gregorypierce
Many people here mistakingly believe that the coupons that have shipped with OSX apply to upgrades of the OS to 10.2 - they do not.

I have confirmed this fact by contacting the Apple store at 1-800-my-apple. The sales representative confirmed two of my fears:

a) there is no plan to offer an upgrade price for 10.2

b) the coupons that ship with your machine are not valid for upgrading from .1->.2.

To confirm this fact I went off to the Apple website where people have been quoting that the up-to-date stuff is valid for 10.2. The Terms on the Up-To-Date form clearly state that the machine would have to have been purchased on or after July 17th in order to be valid so there is *NO* Up-To-Date option for existing MacOS 10.1 users - regardless of when you purchased your machine.


So my friends, fellow switchers, and folks who think different.... we're hosed. Unless Apple changes their plans in some way, we're all out of 129 (bootleggers notwithstanding), and that completely sucks and simply sends the wrong message to anyone who just "switched" to the platform.

To do this in the midst of a marketing campaign to convert new users is just plain stupid. :mad:


So you mean those stupid coupons are useless??? I mean why include them then????? This is such a major pissoff. Apple will have to do something about it fast or I will email to all computer publications and make a big thing out of it, I'm sure that they won't appreciate everybody in the computer world bashing them for such rediculous practice.

Rafael Perini
Jul 17, 2002, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by iH8Quark


Your email won't go away. You just won't get 10 extra MB. You're limited to 5 MB. Chill out. Mac.com email is still free, as far as I know.

Sorry to say, but you are completelly wrong. All your email, home page, idisk and iTools are ALL GONE if you don't pay them. $50 for the 1st year and $100 from then on. I wonder why they didn't keep a "light" free version... That wouldnt make lots of mac users happy. I am personally very disapointed. I will have to chose between paying or moving back to MS Hotmail.

Rafael

mmmdreg
Jul 17, 2002, 08:32 PM
I think it was a pretty good MacWorld actually...you can't exactly expect upgrades to all lines on a consistent basis and we know the powermacs are coming anyway so there's nothing to cry about...I just want to keep my mac.com email but I can't..

buffsldr
Jul 17, 2002, 08:34 PM
i am interested to see if i can use the itools account for several small web sites i host through a third party.

the new itunes looks ok, very mild improvments. i think sherlock will be cool

carlsson
Jul 17, 2002, 08:36 PM
The only negative thing about this MW Expo is:
- email cost for a mac.com account
- no upgrade cost for Jaguar. As another reader said, I afford the price, but it's the principle. It doesn't matter if the ug cost would be $119 - it just need to be cheaper than the full retail price. And newly bought computers and OS X's would of course include this update!

One question though:
- Many of the writers here suggests that we should write Apple about our thoughts, but _where_!?
(Maybe the feedback site at http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/) ?


That's my two cent's...

gregorypierce
Jul 17, 2002, 08:37 PM
So you mean those stupid coupons are useless??? I mean why include them then????? This is such a major pissoff.


This is the same thing I told the folks at the Apple store when they told me this nonsense. If Apple is going to screw people who only a few days ago purchased a brand new machine I'm not sure how many "switchers" they're going to have - let alone convert into Mac faithful.

carlsson
Jul 17, 2002, 08:41 PM
I've heard that Hotmail is going to charge for their mail service as well.

Someone who knows if that's true?

CedMan
Jul 17, 2002, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by gregorypierce


This is the same thing I told the folks at the Apple store when they told me this nonsense. If Apple is going to screw people who only a few days ago purchased a brand new machine I'm not sure how many "switchers" they're going to have - let alone convert into Mac faithful.

Exactly, and my imac has already been put on sale on ebay this morning at 11:00am right after I found out about all these crap, I was seriously pissed. Althought I might end up getting a new one that includes the new OS ....

jrbohorquezg
Jul 17, 2002, 08:48 PM
This has to be the most ******* Macworld to date!

The only good news I got is that Real Networks finally (after a year and a half waiting) released a OSX version of the crappy Real Audio Player. Finally I'll be able to hear the news from my home country! (something that PC users have been able to do a long time ago).

Now I only have to wait a couple of years until AOL, Yahoo or MS comes out with a chat client that supports VoIP, so I can actually talk to my family (again, something that PC user have been able to do lightyears ago).

I'm very, very disappointed... This is like something I read a while ago: "Everything easier on a Mac, the only hard thing is being a Mac user".

Shame on you Apple, and by the way, you can stick .mac up your a$$!

CedMan
Jul 17, 2002, 08:50 PM
I just get off the phone with Apple Care customer representative.

She told me right now there is no plan for an upgrade path, but that doesn't mean there isn't any, she can't tell me there is one because there isn't but she told me chances are there will be. She told me the bottom line is those coupons won't be wasted.

I go ... sigh~ ... and I say since there is nothing I can do about it right now might as well wish for it, and she agrees ... :(

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 08:51 PM
I am thinking we need to start a petition. Maybe petition is a strong word,
but you get the idea. We need to get info posted on all of the rumor/apple
forums (spymac appleinsider, etc. etc. etc.) and get people to sign on to
the ideas being posted here. In one place - like a petition.

First, we need some consensus. The amazing thing is that I think everyone
here wants to see apple strong, wants to see them with good earnings
reports, etc., and would personally pay what they can afford to do it, if
apple would just respond and give the users what they are demanding.

I agree that apple is a business and needs, especially in these days, to
have a means of profit. However, I think we agree (most on this board) that
a few things were very bad moves:


1) charging for 10.2 at full cost to users of every vintage and at every
level.

to clarify: true, the ugrade should be good, and quite an improvement.
however, i agree with those that have said that they bought a new mac
recently expecting an upgrade path to the much-hyped jaguar. and they got
hosed. add another 129 to your already pricey machine. That stinks. Most
cases they at least grandfather an upgrade for 1-3 months prior to the
announcement of the upgrade. With all the hype at the wwdc etc, this was
out there well in advance and people should not be taken for a ride. If
apple wants loyal customers that will buy new machines, they can't screw
people that bought in advance of the final release because they thought they
would be treated fairly. They are going to either push people away
completely, or push them to wait until the day after announcements to buy.
Which, given the powermac specials going on now, is clearly not the goal.

2) There should be a .mac lite.

This should allow at least forwarding of the mac.com accounts. Possibly a
small fee even, and a small storage allotment, but there should be an option
that is free or nearly free. 100$ for bells and whistles and space most
people will not be using is crazy. Apple had a good thing going with
itools, people were sharing their movies, photos, etc. and now it is not for
consumers. it is for people that need 100mb of space to collaborate etc.
It was rude to those that had adopted the new address and tried to support
apple by using the address to advertise to everyone they emailed.

3) We need new powermacs.




I think at least we should be saying 1 and 2. This is the clan of mac
faithful, and I hear many naysayers out there, including myself, who's faith
has been shaken. I sympathize with those who recently 'switch'ed and think
that apple needs to hear the complaints. I support apple. And I am
willing to hang with them even if it means paying for an upgrade to software
that was not truly release-ready until (presumably) this version, though I
have already spent over $100 on the OS, when all it did was make my
machines obsolete (for what i do - and let's not debate this, but fcpro
drops frames on my powerbook when in X, and works fine in 9 - that is just
one example) - but they need to be kept in check. and right now, i think
we need to voice our opinions in unison. Let's get some consensus and
submit some type of petition to apple - i think it would be great to get
some of the 'switchers', especially those featured in the advertisements, to
show both our dedication to thinking different and our concern with a few of
these latest moves.


Thoughts? - let's not beat this to death. Let's do this. Let's get the mac
minority together and make this expo something constructive and something
other than one-sided.

Chris

beatle888
Jul 17, 2002, 08:52 PM
just wanted to say you coulda atleast had a dumbed down
version for people that didnt need all the other *****.....atleast
as a thanks to us early adopters....you know thats just getting
to expensive.....the early adopters support I've given apple for so long.


anywhooo I guess I'd better start letting people know that I have
another email address....damn I forgot I already have one with my
internet provider package....sorry apple after Jaguar (yet another
ripoff for early adopters) you aint getting anymore coin from
me for a long time.....you see you milk your early adopters
instead of value them......people are beginning to call you Macrosoft...
hehe...sounds good to me....anyhooo Jaguar speed shoulda been
there in the begining (OSX) as for the new features well, WATSON/SHERLOCK
is nice , ical (not for me), ichat I guess but a third partie would of been fine.
All I need from Jaguar is the speed not your versions of the 3rd party stuff.
so you see you be chargen me for stuff I dont need.....well thats the thanks I
get but I've learned my lesson.

jrbohorquezg
Jul 17, 2002, 08:54 PM
Gelbin, where do I sign?

fuzzy7slippers
Jul 17, 2002, 08:57 PM
Does anyone know where i can get the desktop pic that is now standard on 10.2.

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 08:58 PM
I don't even have the authority to start my own thread here...so obviously, i am not the person to do this.

Shoot, i will host it on my web site, if someone will volunteer to code the petition type signup --

I would suggest someone do it on their itools space, but the bandwith limit might cap us.

So, I am offering the idea and a host - can we get someone who knows the scripting to do it???

hossler@gelbin.org is my email

chris

ultranoia
Jul 17, 2002, 09:00 PM
Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

That's rich.


On Wednesday, July 17, 2002, at 04:32 PM, Apple Computer wrote:



Dear iTools member,



...For the next two months, we invite you to explore what .Mac has to offer. Your iTools account will remain active until September 30th, and will also act as your .Mac trial account where you can try out the new service. As a thank-you for pioneering the growth of these services with us, you'll receive a special rate of $49.95 for your first year's .Mac membership — a full $50 off the standard rate of $99.95....


Sincerely,


Apple Computer

CedMan
Jul 17, 2002, 09:03 PM
I am totally in for the petition.

Someone please setup something for us new Mac users who just got screwed by apple!!! PLEASE!!!

carlsson
Jul 17, 2002, 09:08 PM
I suggest all readers to use the Feedback opportunity available at http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac.html

if you have an opinion on the cost of the mac.com email service.

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 09:13 PM
i think the feedback thing is good. i already did that and suggest the same.

i still think a petition, especially one that is visible on the web, is a good idea

it shows unison
it is in the public
it shows we are dedicated, but not fools
and it can't be ignored by apple

the problem with the feedback is
it is not public
it can therefore be ignored
and it is not one voice


i think they are both good - but the suggestion still stands - let's move on this...

elgruga
Jul 17, 2002, 09:14 PM
Its been a great Macworld......things were better last week than they are now!

Did Jobs really think that by charging for an upgrade and a free service he was going to make everbody happy?

What a weird concept.

mdman
Jul 17, 2002, 09:17 PM
Question, how many people on here, are recent PC to Mac converts? It sounds like the majority of people here, are long time Mac users.

You know I really feel this is a slap in the face after converting to Mac. I wrote an email to apple, and told them I didn't think this was a very professional thing to do to your "switchers", espically while your touting the whole switch thing.

I didn't say anything when 3 weeks after I bought my iBook 600 mhz that a 700 mhz came out. I mean they were going to get my money, the guy at the Apple store couldn't have said, ya know at the end of the month we will be getting in 700 mhz iBooks. I would have even pre ordered (maybe this is PC thinking, but hey I just switched, so I need time to start thinking like a Mac person :D )

I also didn't say anything when I first started up my system and found their was no way to remove the "Get Mac OS X Software..." from the apple menu, or the "shop for iTunes Products" in the iTunes menu. I thought "what is this an OS or a sales pitch?" But I didn't want to make waves, so I kept my mouth shut, thinking hey it's a learning curve, and still better than M$ crap. But still ya think they would at least allow you to remove them.

Now they grab back my mac.com email address, which I've only had for like 2 months, and just finally got everyone to start sending me mail their. I was so proud of that mac.com email address, to me it showed that I was no longer a lame PC user, but a Mac user, and everyone knew it. Not anymore though.

Is Apple finally innovation from M$ now? I mean M$ is always getting blasted for adding "middleware" like web broswer, media player, and chat programs. PC Users keep saying stop bloating our OS with all this "middleware". If I wanted a chat program I'd download one.

It scares me as a new Mac convert, because what will they next start charging for that was free? Will iTunes/Movie/DVD start costing us? If I use the internet radio feature in iTunes, will I have pay in the future if their revenue stream falls again?

Well at least that's how I feel as someone who switched. Within 2 months Apple has made me question my decision.

And it's not like you've got much choice. I've already dropped over $2000 in my iBook and other Apple accessories; and after seeing how stable OS X, I don't want to go back to winblow anytime soon.

Anyone up for a drink? I think I need one!

carlsson
Jul 17, 2002, 09:19 PM
Gelbin,

A petition is good, I'm in as soon as I know how...

:)

ladrums1000
Jul 17, 2002, 09:20 PM
I don't think I have ever seen this many PISSED OFF people after a macworld keynote. Trust me people, I don't think Apple expected this many pissed off people either. I am sure there have already been meetings among the top brass at Apple regarding a way to appease the masses who feel that Apple has turned their backs to them. Hey, in the corporate world these days, the top guys get greedy, especially when they think their shiat doesn't stink, and only the possibility of a mass exodus away from their product will turn things around.

So people, write Apple early and often about how upset you are (only if you really are upset) with them about the $100 .mac with no .mac light and the $129 Jaguar with no upgrade price. Power to the people (the real people that buy products so Apple and other companies exist.)

swahilibill
Jul 17, 2002, 09:24 PM
Apple really took their tiny microsoft $%#'s and bent us over with Jaguar, what a bunch of #$%$heads. $129.00 for and update, ************, I am not paying that, thats crap!

Sun Baked
Jul 17, 2002, 09:26 PM
If Dell was smart Steven's next commercial would start tomorrow with a special of a new Dell bundled with Preparation H for the victims of Apple's switch campaign.

Dell could even spam all the mac.com users and offer them a free sample sized tube of Preparation H - they could use it.

As for the rest of us it's doubtful that the price for OS X will change.

carlsson
Jul 17, 2002, 09:28 PM
http://www.petitiononline.com/iTol/petition.html

CedMan
Jul 17, 2002, 09:32 PM
Can't get on the page, I think there are too many of us who wants to sign!!

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 09:35 PM
andrea
this may be the place.
we need also to include the jaguar issues.

it would be nice to have something a little more 'independent', rather than a 'prefab' sortof petition. but shoot, i should not be complaining.

but, to those who are concerned, lets make an concerted effort. lets get everyone from all of the machead sites together and get this going.

let's get it noticed by the tech media, and apple will have to respond.

ThomasJefferson
Jul 17, 2002, 09:39 PM
From the extent of the outrage on the mac-universe forums, I would have to say that the level of outrage is beyond anything I have seen in years. Changing the agreement on iTools so suddenly, and with a lack of choices is unacceptable. There should be an iTools consumer feature-set, and a pro-sumer feature set.

I DO think Apple has a right to charge for the services it offers. But, this decision lacks grace and thought. With such a small base in the market it is best not to anger loyal/established users.

"Jagwire" is overpriced by a factor of two.

I predict that David Coursey will give birth to a purple cow and 2 chickens as he writes his .mac-rosoft thesis.

gelbin
Jul 17, 2002, 09:48 PM
i am glad someone else has picked up on 'jagwire'
nice!

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2002, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by andreascarlsson
http://www.petitiononline.com/iTol/petition.html

I checked back on this thread about 3 hours before and discovered the petition link this time. Already 3800+ signatures! Lurkers arise!

Rocketman

http://v-serv.com/-upload/avatar.jpg

iFresh
Jul 17, 2002, 10:05 PM
With the new .Mac you are supposed to get a 100MB iDisk.

Is this like web hosting? Can I FTP to this account?

If, so $50 for the first year for 100MB webspace and 15MB email is a decent price.

Trying to determine whether .Mac is a good deal...

carlsson
Jul 17, 2002, 10:13 PM
Alrightie folks, it's up:
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Jaguar/petition.html

I'm sorry for the bad english, but I felt it better be up and running than to wait for someone else...

/andreas

Speculator
Jul 17, 2002, 10:14 PM
Just a couple of suggestions:
1. Purchasing Price of OS X.2
There is inequity in charging a new user of OS X $129 and a current user of OS X $129. Even offering an upgrade price of $99 would be acceptable as long as it was less than what the new user is paying for it. Just seems fair. (Sidenote: Educational pricing on Jaguar is $69 btw)

2. Apple & Money
It's not that Apple "needs" money right now (they are in the black, afterall). They aren't money-hungry like M$; rather Apple has decided to take the big-dog on head-to-head. Given the economic climate for the next 6 months, that's a very tall order (Did anyone else hear the 6-7 direct hits M$ took in the keynote? That kind of tone demonstrates that Apple feels it is poised to take M$ on -- and that takes not just innovation, but money. Both M$ and Apple are in a purchasing frenzy right now (Anyone looked at the companies each has been purchasing recently?) M$ has more money which means that it can buy more companies -- which means they own the intellectual property of those companies. Apple's got to be able to compete with that. Besides, even with the pay for .Mac and Jaguar, it doesn't come close to the gouging M$ does.

3. .Mac
Should have graded levels of membership.
Should have a chart which compares value vs. cost with other competitors like hotmail, etc.
Should provide POP .mac mail for free.
Should offer educational discount for students.
Should extend trial membership further for existing users -- at least until they have used the "features" they would be paying for (i.e. iCal publishing of their calendars, backing up, virus protection, etc.). Just doesn't make sense to kill the trial period this soon.

soosy
Jul 17, 2002, 10:25 PM
I can understand Apple needs to make money, and that the economy ain't great, and that Apple makes the best products in the world (which I truly believe), and that Windows XP costs much more than OS X but....

They need to continue to offer free mac.com email addresses. If they're worried about non-mac users using it then have users enter their machine seriel number and give like 5 email accounts per machine for family use.

Jaguar's price is too much. They really shouldn't be charging so much unless it is 10.5, but we all know that they can't call it that because they are just now getting OS X working great and working right (and it is looking amazing).

I don't mind paying in a way as a home user cause I'm still on a Sage iMac, but people who have bought in the last 6 months really need to be getting a steep discount.

TechKid
Jul 17, 2002, 10:31 PM
Some of you people are stupid. The upgrade to jagwire is free for people running os x already. You will just use the software update util. If you want a cd of it, it's only $20 for shipping and handling.

It's $130 if you don't have os x already

And for you winers about the 100 bucks for .mac.... shut up and cough out the dough! You're getting a lot of stuff for only $100. M$ would charge 100 bucks a month for what you're getting.

I only say this because I don't want Apple to become the next Linux distributor where they're scrounging for cash and it takes them years to add any functionality into their products. Mac makes great products, don't expect them to be free!

ladrums1000
Jul 17, 2002, 10:36 PM
Some of you people are stupid. The upgrade to jagwire is free for people running os x already. You will just use the software update util. If you want a cd of it, it's only $20 for shipping and handling.
-----------------------------------------

Tech kid, where did you get this information? There are several people who have posted on here that spoke to Apple directly, and there is no free upgrade for current OSX users. If you know something apple doesn't please let us know where we can find it, otherwise who is the stupid one???

swahilibill
Jul 17, 2002, 10:49 PM
hey techkid, get your facts straight, k, its 129 for everyone, not just os x users, so stop acting like everyone else is so stupid. its 20 for an uprade now through the time it ships, got it,and it is way to big for software update.