Anybody Applying to College? [Archive]

ChrisA

Sep 16, 2009, 05:18 PM

Well this is my senior year fourth year of college, and I'm a little behind in the number of credits I've acquired (I'm a sophomore, technically :(). But I've gotten to the point that I've realized this isn't the college for me... and so next year, where will I go? Lots to think about, and so little time.

Time goes by much faster once college starts. You get old way too quickly.

Collage for me was a __long__ time ago but I did the same thing got into a school that was not a good fit. It's hard to know where to go and you don't know if it is a good fit until you get there. I thought I wanted to go to UCLA. I had decided that by the 8th grade I was there at UCLA for a year and then I transferred out to Loyola Marymont University (Also in Los Angeles.) Such a difference. For example at UCLA the math classes were 200 students in an auditorium. On the first day in a math class at LMU the teacher looked around and asked "Is John taking this class or is he just late?"

I'd recommend a smaller school if you can swing it and if it is known to be good in the subject you will study.

it5five

Sep 17, 2009, 12:18 AM

I'm applying to graduate school right now. Does that count?

University of Vermont
SUNY Binghamton
SFSU
University of Washington

FrankieTDouglas

Sep 17, 2009, 12:52 AM

Just finished an MFA at Louisiana Tech University.

Honestly, I don't feel the name of the school is all that important. It's more about simply having the degree, who you are able to network with in school and OUTSIDE of it, and quite simply, how good are you in your field. A stellar portfolio from a small school trumps an average portfolio from a prestigious school any day.

Badandy

Sep 17, 2009, 12:57 AM

My advice to everyone who is going to college

1) Do not be undeclared esp at a 4 year university

Why? It's fine to be undeclared when getting through GE classes.

2) Stay in state unless you have a killer scholarship somewhere. Loans arnt fun and yes, you do have to repay them. Why go to another "state" school that is out of state for you?

Sometimes the experience of going where you want to go is worth it. I agree with your last sentence here, though. If you're going to spend the money to go somewhere, I wouldn't go to another state school! Although this argument, too, has its holes...

3) Don't think an undergrad at an ivy league is special.....get your undergrad at an instate school and then go for grad school at an ivy league if you can

The key words there are "if you can". Going to an Ivy League school as an undergrad helps with a lot of things. I'd much rather go to Harvard than to my local state school, especially considering Ivy League schools are need-blind for admissions.

4)if you dont know what you are doing, consider a community college to get the core classes out of the way......why pay a hefty sum for a 4 year school when cc classes can transfer over for much cheaper

Because it's worth it to get the freshman experience at a great, four year university where there's continuity in your social circle.

Yea I'm a senior too. Pretty stressful time but it's all good. Just gotta get those college essays done! I can't wait for college though, ahhh!!!

My "for sure" list:

USC- DREAM school

If it's your dream school, we'd love to have you. If you have any specific questions about USC, feel free to PM me and I'll be glad to answer them.

AppleLover9o

Sep 17, 2009, 01:12 AM

What are the hope's for someone with a 1.69 gpa and normal scores on the state standards test's for going to college?

Just curious. :cool:

Badandy

Sep 17, 2009, 01:31 AM

What are the hope's for someone with a 1.69 gpa and normal scores on the state standards test's for going to college?

I'd think the hope is to start studying. :p

AppleLover9o

Sep 17, 2009, 01:40 AM

I'd think the hope is to start studying. :p

Study what though? If your going to graduate in the summer, what'd you recommend someone study? If my child got... b's.... for the rest of the year, would they achieve at least a 2.3? They're a highschool senior, by the way.

Is there hope to go to college?

rhsgolfer33

Sep 17, 2009, 01:54 AM

Is there hope to go to college?

Junior College/Community college. A 1.69 gpa (can you even graduate high school with a 1.69?) and even a 2.3 gpa aren't going to be enough to get you into any four years. Go to community college, work really hard (get well above a 3.0, preferably above a 3.5), acquire good study skills, then transfer to a university.

thegoldenmackid

Sep 17, 2009, 01:56 AM

ltldrummerboy

Sep 17, 2009, 02:04 AM

I'm going to a community college in Alaska right now (Kenai Peninsula College, a branch of University Of Alaska). I'm hoping to get my associate arts degree by the end of next summer and then I'm thinking about transferring to CSU for computer science. How 'bout that dukebound85?

AppleLover9o

Sep 17, 2009, 02:48 AM

I assume you are talking about yourself... Studying is always good.

Maybe you should re-read my post???

ZiggyPastorius

Sep 17, 2009, 06:19 AM

I'm in college this year. Last year, I applied for Berklee College of Music, Western Michigan, and Michigan State. I got accepted to all of them, and I'm now at Berklee for my undergrad in Composition and possibly music education, mostly because my principal instrument is not recognised at any of the other schools (and very few schools at all).

iOrlando

Sep 17, 2009, 06:32 AM

i never went to skool. Raised by snow leopards in the jungles of Florida.

furcalchick

Sep 17, 2009, 04:04 PM

I'd recommend a smaller school if you can swing it and if it is known to be good in the subject you will study.

same here. alot more personal attention in a smaller school, and i would have likely cracked in a big state university. my biggest class was about 60-70 students (most were under 30 students) and i had a bit more freedom to ask the profs during and after class about something i had an issue in lectures or homework. plus, all of the classes were taught by professors, not grad students like you'll likely see in a big university introduction class with 400 students.

thegoldenmackid

Sep 17, 2009, 04:12 PM

Maybe you should re-read my post???

It sounded like another one of the "my friend..." stories. My apologies if it is not.

same here. alot more personal attention in a smaller school, and i would have likely cracked in a big state university. my biggest class was about 60-70 students (most were under 30 students) and i had a bit more freedom to ask the profs during and after class about something i had an issue in lectures or homework. plus, all of the classes were taught by professors, not grad students like you'll likely see in a big university introduction class with 400 students.
Agreed, I'm loving having the small classes with professors that know my name.

ipodtouchy333

Sep 17, 2009, 04:16 PM

If it's your dream school, we'd love to have you. If you have any specific questions about USC, feel free to PM me and I'll be glad to answer them.

Hey thanks! I just might do that.

it5five

Sep 17, 2009, 04:32 PM

same here. alot more personal attention in a smaller school, and i would have likely cracked in a big state university. my biggest class was about 60-70 students (most were under 30 students) and i had a bit more freedom to ask the profs during and after class about something i had an issue in lectures or homework. plus, all of the classes were taught by professors, not grad students like you'll likely see in a big university introduction class with 400 students.

I have a hard time accepting this argument, for the most part. I go to one of the largest universities in the US (in terms of enrollment). Sure, I had huge lecture classes with hundreds of students, but you pointed out something very important in your own post - they are introductory classes. The only classes that have hundreds of students in them and are taught by graduate students are lower-division introductory classes. My upper division courses that pertain to my major have ~30 students at the most, and are always taught by professors.

chstr

Sep 17, 2009, 04:33 PM

My advice to everyone who is going to college

1) Do not be undeclared esp at a 4 year university

2) Stay in state unless you have a killer scholarship somewhere. Loans arnt fun and yes, you do have to repay them. Why go to another "state" school that is out of state for you?

3) Don't think an undergrad at an ivy league is special.....get your undergrad at an instate school and then go for grad school at an ivy league if you can

4)if you dont know what you are doing, consider a community college to get the core classes out of the way......why pay a hefty sum for a 4 year school when cc classes can transfer over for much cheaper

This is my advice to students and parents and I HOPE you take it to heart as it's true in every aspect

this is pretty solid advice. although an Ivy undergrad degree can open a lot of grad school doors for you. More important though probably is your major. i would suggest majoring in Engineering right now and minoring in an art (music, theater etc.)

Signal-11

Sep 17, 2009, 05:20 PM

3) Don't think an undergrad at an ivy league is special.....get your undergrad at an instate school and then go for grad school at an ivy league if you can

4)if you dont know what you are doing, consider a community college to get the core classes out of the way......why pay a hefty sum for a 4 year school when cc classes can transfer over for much cheaper

This is my advice to students and parents and I HOPE you take it to heart as it's true in every aspect

No, it's not. This is what you believe to be true.

Degrees from Ivy/elite schools DO open a lot of doors, particularly if you take advantage of research opportunities while you are an undergrad. A degree from CalTech or MIT reads differently on a resume/CV. Additionally, these schools are the ones that are better set up for interesting undergraduate projects and more research opportunities. If you're a serious student at a university with 3000 undergrads and over 10,000 grad students, it's almost impossible not to get deeply involved with a core group of profs who will get your name on some papers and give you great recommendations.

Regarding community college, as Badandy mentioned, there's a lot to be said for the freshman experience. Also, it's been demonstrated time and again that same/similar students who go into community college are much more likely to drop out of school than one who goes directly into a 4 year.

it5five

Sep 17, 2009, 05:54 PM

More important though probably is your major. i would suggest majoring in Engineering right now and minoring in an art (music, theater etc.)

Worst advice in this thread. Do not study something you are not interested in. Not only will college be four long miserable years, but you will spend the rest of your life hating yourself if you do this, especially if it is a degree like Engineering which really restricts you in career choices.

Study whatever you want. Don't let others choose for you.

thegoldenmackid

Sep 17, 2009, 05:58 PM

Study whatever you want. Don't let others choose for you.

Very good advice. Never regret something you do, especially if it is going to cost $50,000 a year.

dukebound85

Sep 17, 2009, 06:05 PM

it5five

Sep 17, 2009, 06:20 PM

thats pretty bad advice as well in a sense

the return on "investment" is something any responsible person should evaluate to some degree

its all a balancing act

its nice to do what you love if you can. however, its also nice to be able to pay off your loans and make a living

You're thinking in purely monetary terms; I'm not. Any consideration I make about "return on investment" includes future happiness as well.

But then I also would advise most people to stay in-state and public for their undergraduate degree if they don't have a great scholarship for a private or out-of-state public university, and save the expensive part of your education for graduate school.

Some people are talking about $50k a year, but I will have spent less than $10k on my entire bachelors degree by staying in-state.

dukebound85

Sep 17, 2009, 07:40 PM

You're thinking in purely monetary terms; I'm not. Any consideration I make about "return on investment" includes future happiness as well.

no im not...

i said it needs to be evaluated to some degree and that the decision is a balancing act

But then I also would advise most people to stay in-state and public for their undergraduate degree if they don't have a great scholarship for a private or out-of-state public university, and save the expensive part of your education for graduate school.

i agree

Some people are talking about $50k a year, but I will have spent less than $10k on my entire bachelors degree by staying in-state.

thats the way to do it really imo

it5five

Sep 17, 2009, 07:59 PM

no im not...

i said it needs to be evaluated to some degree and that the decision is a balancing act

I think we're on the same page then, that deciding a major is a personal decision.

rasmasyean

Sep 17, 2009, 09:36 PM

My advice to everyone who is going to college

What the hell? Did you even go to college? Or were you like one of the disgruntled drop-outs?

1) Do not be undeclared esp at a 4 year university

Not everyone knows their major right out of high school and needs some time to explore a bit more while they take core req courses. College is a good place because you can ask professors and advisors and other “pros” about what you want to do with your life before you commit to a program.

2) Stay in state unless you have a killer scholarship somewhere. Loans arnt fun and yes, you do have to repay them. Why go to another "state" school that is out of state for you?

Because sometimes the state school doesn’t have your program…or isn’t as good? And maybe once you graduate, the extra bit of loans are pretty immaterial compared to your education?

3) Don't think an undergrad at an ivy league is special.....get your undergrad at an instate school and then go for grad school at an ivy league if you can

What is this? Sour grapes? Ivy league schools contain Ivy league people. These are the best of the best and where you will find some of the most ambitious and competitive people who really care about the future and often care about making an impact with their lives. And this environment also rubs off on “young minds” as well. This is assuming you have the right material for this level of schooling and don’t fail out, of course. In contrast, going to a party school can make kids think that life is a party.

And graduate programs aren’t always the best in Ivy league schools. And industry pros at that level know which schools (can be state university) and specific programs to hire from to get good ppl without having to rely solely on “name”.

4)if you dont know what you are doing, consider a community college to get the core classes out of the way......why pay a hefty sum for a 4 year school when cc classes can transfer over for much cheaper

And when you transfer for a decent school you will find out that they don’t count classes from “community colleges”. Most community colleges are for people at the low ends on the academic scale and those who just entered the country. So their “worth” is also treated that way.

This is my advice to students and parents and I HOPE you take it to heart as it's true in every aspect
Take his advice if you want to ruin your life. :rolleyes:

rasmasyean

Sep 17, 2009, 09:52 PM

Study what though? If your going to graduate in the summer, what'd you recommend someone study? If my child got... b's.... for the rest of the year, would they achieve at least a 2.3? They're a highschool senior, by the way.

Is there hope to go to college?

If they do exceptionally well in the last year, it “might” be considered potential as it was a vast improvement. But they won't be able to see the whole year, like toward the end, I think. The other thing that can help is if they “win” some prestigious competition or show some form of “leadership” in extra-curricular activities.

But you also have to consider that maybe you kid is not really meant for college and/or “more school”. If you force them they might just fail out or eventually drop out.

Or they can go to some trade school to get some technical skills to quickly enter the job market.

rasmasyean

Sep 17, 2009, 10:03 PM

Worst advice in this thread. Do not study something you are not interested in. Not only will college be four long miserable years, but you will spend the rest of your life hating yourself if you do this, especially if it is a degree like Engineering which really restricts you in career choices.

Study whatever you want. Don't let others choose for you.

I would agree with this. Try to look for something within your interests or if anything, something you’re good at.

Engineering is actually one of the hardest disciplines and some ppl think that it makes good money (especially in this high-tech era). It often does, but that’s if you are at least decent at it. Otherwise you’re going to drop/fail out or even if you make it through, you might burn out because….technology changes. And technology fields often require life-long learning to be successful in it.

And art generally requires a specific inborn talent imo. And often…it also contrasts personality-wise with engineering. Not many people are good at both ends of the spectrum.

rhsgolfer33

Sep 17, 2009, 10:11 PM

Not everyone knows their major right out of high school and needs some time to explore a bit more while they take core req courses. College is a good place because you can ask professors and advisors and other “pros” about what you want to do with your life before you commit to a program.

I think his point is, and I don't entirely disagree, that you can "explore a bit" for a hell of a lot cheaper at a community college. Its $26 a unit to explore at community college here, it can be anywhere from $5000 a semester to $1000+ per unit to explore elsewhere.

In contrast, going to a party school can make kids think that life is a party.

There is more than just Ivy League and party schools. While I would say that if you are accepted at an Ivy League school and you can go, you should, I don't really think anyone from an Ivy League is any more special than anyone from a good state program such as Berekely, UCLA, University of Virginia, etc. or even many smaller private programs.

And graduate programs aren’t always the best in Ivy league schools. And industry pros at that level know which schools (can be state university) and specific programs to hire from to get good ppl without having to rely solely on “name”.

Ivies tend to have good graduate programs in most fields. I'd say it would be better to go there for an advanced degree than for a bachelors mostly because of the availability of lots and lots of research funding that many, even top state schools, can lack.

And when you transfer for a decent school you will find out that they don’t count classes from “community colleges”. Most community colleges are for people at the low ends on the academic scale and those who just entered the country. So their “worth” is also treated that way.

No, lots of courses do transfer. In fact, if you plan in right, the vast majority of your courses can transfer. I know more than a few people who have transfered into Berkeley, UCLA, UCI, etc. from the CC system here in California and have had no problems finishing in what portion they have remaining of four years of study (usually two years at CC and two at university, though I have friends who have done one year at CC and two at university, and 2.5 years at CC and 1.5 at university). Also, lots of community college students aren't at the low end of the academic spectrum, cost is a huge factor in why many students go to them. Why pay thousands for lower level general eds taught by graduate students when you can pay $26 a unit for lower level general eds taught by professors with experience and a graduate degree in their name?

I never attended community college as a degree seeker, I go to a private liberal arts college, but I do take extra courses at CC (to save money since I take more than the standard 12-18 units full time tuition pays for and over 18 units at my college is over $900 a unit) and I've had numerous friends go there. Its a good system; it can set you up with excellent college opportunities after you finish some GE's and it can save you a small fortune. Does it have problems? Obviously, but so do most state and private schools.

rasmasyean

Sep 17, 2009, 10:27 PM

I think his point is, and I don't entirely disagree, that you can "explore a bit" for a hell of a lot cheaper at a community college. Its $26 a unit to explore at community college here, it can be anywhere from $5000 a semester to $1000+ per unit to explore elsewhere.

There is more than just Ivy League and party schools. While I would say that if you are accepted at an Ivy League school and you can go, you should, I don't really think anyone from an Ivy League is any more special than anyone from a good state program such as Berekely, UCLA, University of Virginia, etc. or even many smaller private programs.

Ivies tend to have good graduate programs in most fields. I'd say it would be better to go there for an advanced degree than for a bachelors mostly because of the availability of lots and lots of research funding that many, even top state schools, can lack.

No, lots of courses do transfer. In fact, if you plan in right, the vast majority of your courses can transfer. I know more than a few people who have transfered into Berkeley, UCLA, UCI, etc. from the CC system here in California and have had no problems finishing in what portion they have remaining of four years of study (usually two years at CC and two at university, though I have friends who have done one year at CC and two at university, and 2.5 years at CC and 1.5 at university). Also, lots of community college students aren't at the low end of the academic spectrum, cost is a huge factor in why many students go to them. Why pay thousands for lower level general eds taught by graduate students when you can pay $26 a unit for lower level general eds taught by professors with experience and a graduate degree in their name?

I never attended community college as a degree seeker, I go to a private liberal arts college, but I do take extra courses at CC (to save money since I take more than the standard 12-18 units full time tuition pays for and over 18 units at my college is over $900 a unit) and I've had numerous friends go there. Its a good system; it can set you up with excellent college opportunities after you finish some GE's and it can save you a small fortune. Does it have problems? Obviously, but so do most state and private schools.

Maybe it's different in California. The OP is East coast and I remebered hearing of ppl transfering from CC loosing a lot of credits in NY, where looks like he's from. But this was long time ago so things might have change. Maybe the discrepancy in costs these days change the rules. dunno.

The point about Ivy league is just to say that it does make a difference. And besides, I meant Ivy league as in the broad sense, not the traditional "litteral" 8 schools.

No doubt that “Ivy leagues” do get a lot of funding, but sometimes there are other factors…like a less-name school being near a military proving ground, etc.

Signal-11

Sep 17, 2009, 10:46 PM

There is more than just Ivy League and party schools. While I would say that if you are accepted at an Ivy League school and you can go, you should, I don't really think anyone from an Ivy League is any more special than anyone from a good state program such as Berekely, UCLA, University of Virginia, etc. or even many smaller private programs.

Oddly enough, I just had a conversation about this with my sister, who's an Ivy/Oxbridge educated college professor. The first time she taught at a state school, she had to significantly change her curriculum.

In my experience and in the experience of most people I know who have been on both sides of the fence, there is a clear and significant difference.

Obviously, this does not apply to extremely competitive state schools that have Ivy/near Ivy standards, such Berkely or UVa.

rhsgolfer33

Sep 17, 2009, 10:46 PM

Maybe it's different in California. The OP is East coast and I remebered hearing of ppl transfering from CC loosing a lot of credits in NY, where looks like he's from. But this was long time ago so things might have change. Maybe the discrepancy in costs these days change the rules. dunno.

It can definitely happen out here as well, you have to make sure what you're taking is transferable, a lot of people just assume it all transfers and take what ever they want, that is definitely not the case. Counseling/advising is definitely one of the weak points at CC, but if you seek the information it is definitely there; you have to be proactive and driven in community college if you want to get out in two years and transfer the majority of your courses (but then again you have to be pretty proactive and driven at any university too).

rhsgolfer33

Sep 17, 2009, 10:58 PM

Mods can delete this post when they get around to it. :)

JoeG4

Sep 17, 2009, 11:20 PM

In California, community college students get top priority for transferring, and while the counselors and path-making process aren't so great, it definitely works.

Don't know where the community college trash talk comes from, though. Out here most classes are (at max) 25 students. Many of the professors worked at other universities, and most certainly aren't grad students (although I've had a couple of professors who were rather young).

Moreso, you don't have to deal with getting all of the old labs/equipment because you're a first/second year student! :D

As a community college student, I highly suggest you find the best university you can get into and go there. Yeah, you have to put up with poorly taught classes with 200 other students, but the life beats the hell out of community college life!

And then there's the bottom-of-the-bottom stigma that comes with it. I recall reading that if you want to go to an Ivy League school and went to community college, then you would have had to qualify straight out of high school in the first place.

Of course, a lot of that type of information comes from frustrated rejects and/or trolls on college application forums. I'm not joking.

Be positive. Just like buying a lottery ticket, the odds of getting into a top end school can be as ridiculous as you wish to make them out to be, but if you don't apply - you've guaranteed yourself no chance regardless.

Think of your major as a pocket knife. Chances are you will not be getting a job that directly correlates with it, eg an electrical engineer may get their first few jobs working at mattel working on barbie toys. If you pick out your program carefully, you can get one that can be used without too much commotion to do other things.

Signal-11

Sep 17, 2009, 11:27 PM

I never attended community college as a degree seeker, I go to a private liberal arts college, but I do take extra courses at CC (to save money since I take more than the standard 12-18 units full time tuition pays for and over 18 units at my college is over $900 a unit) and I've had numerous friends go there. Its a good system; it can set you up with excellent college opportunities after you finish some GE's and it can save you a small fortune. Does it have problems? Obviously, but so do most state and private schools.

I've never taken any CC academic courses, except back in high school, but I definitely like to get my learning on and CCs often offer stuff that are simply not available in your average Ivy. When I've had the time, I've taken cooking classes, sign language, welding, diesel engine repair and couple of courses that caught my interest when they mass mail their catalogs.

JoeG4

Sep 17, 2009, 11:32 PM

BTW, felt like adding my plans:

* Finish physics, calculus, and other necessities as possible at college I am currently at! (If you so much as fart in a community college, you can't get into a UC without them)...

Apply to:
* Stanford
* CalTech
* Berkeley
* Davis
* Irvine

Why not? :D

chstr

Sep 18, 2009, 05:11 AM

chstr

Sep 18, 2009, 05:15 AM

Worst advice in this thread. Do not study something you are not interested in. Not only will college be four long miserable years, but you will spend the rest of your life hating yourself if you do this, especially if it is a degree like Engineering which really restricts you in career choices.

Study whatever you want. Don't let others choose for you.

Umm, take it with a grain of salt if you like. But from someone with a bachelors and 2 masters degrees and having taught at an Ivy league school I think I have a little more experience than someone who hasn't graduated college yet :p Engineering undergrads have the MOST options after graduating, and the reason I said to minor in an art of somekind is that we will see that you are smart and multi-facilitated when applying for grad work.

Capt Crunch

Sep 18, 2009, 06:25 AM

berkely UVA Michigan Wisconsin etc are often considered better than Ivy's nowadays FYI

In what?

rasmasyean

Sep 18, 2009, 10:21 AM

Oddly enough, I just had a conversation about this with my sister, who's an Ivy/Oxbridge educated college professor. The first time she taught at a state school, she had to significantly change her curriculum.

In my experience and in the experience of most people I know who have been on both sides of the fence, there is a clear and significant difference.

Obviously, this does not apply to extremely competitive state schools that have Ivy/near Ivy standards, such Berkely or UVa.

Some people think that it’s just the “reputation” that counts and all you have to do it get in and the rest of your life is a breeze and you might become President of the US someday.

In reality, a typical “freshman orientation” advice can go something like this…

You are here because you were better than 95% of your class.
Yes, you were hot stuff before but now you will have to get used to being among everyone who was better than 95% of their class.
Don’t let your past accomplishments get you your head.
Some of you got here because you are smart and barely hit the books back in high school.
If you think that will work from now on, you will fail as many people have learned the hard way.
Don’t fall into that trap as the standards here are much higher and more rigorous.

I had a friend who failed out of one of these places and he blamed his college frat friends for getting into drinking and damaging his brain or something. While it’s true that alcohol kills brain cells, it’s not like any of his college drinking buddies failed too. But in his rambling he also mentions that back in his small town HS, he used to study real hard all the time and get good grades and be the in tops of his class. And in college, he did the same thing (besides his “weekend frat activities” I guess) but he just couldn’t get it. He would read and do the problems and he just couldn’t understand it well enough even though he tried.

So my "friend story" is a bit “anecdotal” but I do think that inherent talent does come into play and if your calling isn’t to one of these types of places (or that major), then it’s an uphill battle. He studied Engineering and perhaps it’s because he just sucked in math. That’s definitely not a subject for everyone…at least not in the advanced levels.

iOrlando

Sep 18, 2009, 10:54 AM

dukebound85

Sep 18, 2009, 10:54 AM

What the hell? Did you even go to college? Or were you like one of the disgruntled drop-outs?

um yes i did

Not everyone knows their major right out of high school and needs some time to explore a bit more while they take core req courses. College is a good place because you can ask professors and advisors and other “pros” about what you want to do with your life before you commit to a program.

so sit in on classes while not being a student....yes, it's possible

why pay for classes that dont have an end goal?

take a year out if need be and just sit in on various classes when you arent paying for it to see if you have an interest in it or not.

to pay 10,20, 30, 40 thousand a year for classes that arent working towards something is silly:cool:

you DO NOT have to be a student paying for expensive college to find your interests and what you want to do. There are many alternative ways that do not cost a small fortune...

Because sometimes the state school doesn’t have your program…or isn’t as good? And maybe once you graduate, the extra bit of loans are pretty immaterial compared to your education?

Like what? Most programs are in state schools

If the program isn't at the school then don't go, but if it is, at least consider state school. I know so many people who didnt even consider it because of teh sole fact it was a state school....

I know too many people dead set od ivy league or out of state for no particular reason other than the name....

to me, thats silly from a financial point of view

show me someone who likes paying back school loans....its something to consider

What is this? Sour grapes? Ivy league schools contain Ivy league people. These are the best of the best and where you will find some of the most ambitious and competitive people who really care about the future and often care about making an impact with their lives. And this environment also rubs off on “young minds” as well. This is assuming you have the right material for this level of schooling and don’t fail out, of course. In contrast, going to a party school can make kids think that life is a party.

Thats utter BS

I have met VERY ambitious people at state schools who are now at these ivy league schools for grad school:rolleyes:

I have met VERY many people that have BETTER credentials out of hs than those that go to "ivy league"

whats your point again....

And graduate programs aren’t always the best in Ivy league schools. And industry pros at that level know which schools (can be state university) and specific programs to hire from to get good ppl without having to rely solely on “name”.

Obviously there are exceptions

However, it is known that some programs like engineering are more "prestigious" at say MIT or law at Harvard

And when you transfer for a decent school you will find out that they don’t count classes from “community colleges”. Most community colleges are for people at the low ends on the academic scale and those who just entered the country. So their “worth” is also treated that way.

You are VERY misinformed. Also please stop with the "elitist" attitude. everyone's circumstances are different and by NO means are CC's on the low end of the academic scale or reserved for immigrants

Take his advice if you want to ruin your life. :rolleyes:
Hardly:cool:

dmr727

Sep 18, 2009, 11:15 AM

rasmasyean

Sep 18, 2009, 11:30 AM

I know people who went to Ivy league schools and they are unemployed. Cant find work.

I know people who went to community college and they started their own businesses and have done quite well.

anyone on here trying to generalize that one type is this and that or means this or that is full of $%(#.

Yeah, and what’s your point? Famous drop-outs change the world…even in “highly skilled” arenas. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Michael Dell.

You can drop out of high school and bake the best tasting cookies ever and become a millionaire before your peers graduate.

The talk is about getting an education. As was mentioned already, it’s not always about a monetary cost/profit analysis. If that’s your ultimate goal, go play the stock market. Why even bother with learning to begin with.

Whether you believe it or not, higher end schools give a higher end education with higher end students in there on average. Does that matter to you? If you’re so much of a “self-starter”, drop out and put Mark Zuckerberg in his place. Why bother with college to begin with?

thegoldenmackid

Sep 18, 2009, 11:34 AM

This thread is rather off-topic. Rather then H.S. seniors posting where they are applying, a bunch of graduates are yelling at each other over what the "right" path is...

If it helps to the OP, I'm a Freshman in college, last year I applied to:
Chapman University
Occidental College
University of Southern California
Wake Forest University
The College of William & Mary

dukebound85

Sep 18, 2009, 11:40 AM

Schools I applied to back in the day (2002)

1) University of Kansas
2) University of Colorado
3) Duke University
4) Colorado State University
5) Embry Riddle Aeronautical University Prescott Campus
6) Georgia Tech

Got accepted into all of them, but decided on #4 due to my circumstances at the time

chstr

Sep 18, 2009, 11:48 AM

berkely UVA Michigan Wisconsin etc are often considered better than Ivy's nowadays FYI

In what?

wisconsin's engineering and biotech programs are considered some of the best in the world. Michigan is considered a top 5 university in the world along with uva and berk. These schools are what many refer to as "public Ivys"

it5five

Sep 18, 2009, 01:19 PM

Umm, take it with a grain of salt if you like. But from someone with a bachelors and 2 masters degrees and having taught at an Ivy league school I think I have a little more experience than someone who hasn't graduated college yet :p Engineering undergrads have the MOST options after graduating, and the reason I said to minor in an art of somekind is that we will see that you are smart and multi-facilitated when applying for grad work.

I get it, you're an engineer. But don't suggest the field to everyone going to college. I'd have dropped out if I was goaded to go into engineering, because it seems like the least interesting/most miserable way I could have spent my time in college. Your appeal to authority doesn't do anything to sway my opinion (mostly because I'm sure you're lying).

I still insist that people should study whatever they want - do not let others talk you into a certain field.

Signal-11

Sep 18, 2009, 01:42 PM

thegoldenmackid

Sep 18, 2009, 01:44 PM

So if Michigan, UVa and Berkely are top 5, what other two schools in that halo?

I have a feeling some of the following are going to feel left out:
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Oxford
Cambridge
M.I.T.
Stanford

Amongst a couple others...

dukebound85

Sep 18, 2009, 01:48 PM

I have a feeling some of the following are going to feel left out:
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Oxford
Cambridge
M.I.T.
Stanford

Amongst a couple others...

including schools outside the US as "ivy"?

thegoldenmackid

Sep 18, 2009, 01:49 PM

including schools outside the US as "ivy"?

Umm...yes. There reference made earlier was "Top 5 in the world"

I also included Stanford & M.I.T. :D

dukebound85

Sep 18, 2009, 01:51 PM

Umm...yes. There reference made earlier was "Top 5 in the world"

I also included Stanford & M.I.T. :D

reason i said that is because "ivy" is usually meant for US schools

There are schools in China, India,etc that rival our ivy schools yet i do not see them on your list lol

Signal-11

Sep 18, 2009, 01:55 PM

It's funny how threads discussing college will eventually spiral down into essentially nothing more than a d*** measuring contest.

One school does not fit all, or even most. This is true regardless of the ambition or work ethic of the student. Everyone's situation is different.

Maybe. But as you said, one school does not fit all for a reason - because schools are different. A person who says that Local State U is the same as Highly Prestigious University Y isn't being honest, either with himself or his audience.

This is not the first time I've attempted correct Dukebound on his educational misconceptions, particularly those having to do with funding. For someone who is relatively fresh out of college with his personal higher educational experience more or less limited to one school as an undergrad to present his opinions as unvarnished truth is irresponsible.

dmr727

Sep 18, 2009, 02:00 PM

A person who says that Local State U is the same as Highly Prestigious University Y isn't being honest, either with himself or his audience.

That's true, but there can be a myriad reasons why Local State U is a better choice than Highly Prestigious University for a given person, even if he/she could get in to both schools. That's all I was trying to say.

dukebound85

Sep 18, 2009, 02:01 PM

Maybe. But as you said, one school does not fit all for a reason - because schools are different. A person who says that Local State U is the same as Highly Prestigious University Y isn't being honest, either with himself or his audience.

I never said that:cool:

I said it's worth considering a local school and potentially save a ton of money over a ivy school.

I also said that if you do not know what you want to do major wise, why pay the high price to figure it out when there are much cheaper ways to do this?

I also know that attending grad school at an ivy school is where it matters more than a local state school as opposed to a undergrad degree

This is not the first time I've attempted correct Dukebound on his educational misconceptions, particularly those having to do with funding. For someone who is relatively fresh out of college with his personal higher educational experience more or less limited to one school as an undergrad to present his opinions as unvarnished truth is irresponsible.

All I have stated is that local schools are more affordable and should be considered. I know so many peers in hs that automatically thought they were above a state school:rolleyes:

It is financially irresponsible to spend time figuring out your interests and not work towards anything at a school where tuition is 40k a year.

Nobody likes to be in debt and I have no idea why you are so adamant on disagreeing with me.

I am not saying ivy leagues are bad, and if thats what you want to do great. I just said its really unwise to only consider ivy leagues or private schools

Also, you do not know me and my background so don't try and pass off what I have learned as worthless while proclaiming your own "opinion" as somewhat superior:cool:

That's true, but there can be a myriad reasons why Local State U is a better choice than Highly Prestigious University for a given person, even if he/she could get in to both schools. That's all I was trying to say.

I agree

Signal-11

Sep 18, 2009, 02:04 PM

reason i said that is because "ivy" is usually meant for US schools

There are schools in China, India,etc that rival our ivy schools yet i do not see them on your list lol

I have yet to work with an IIT guy who wasn't extremely competent and they'd like to think IIT rivals CalTech or MIT but the reality is that they're in completely different leagues based on money and money alone. Look at research expenditures - the schools and departments that have piles of money every year are going to be the ones that have plenty of loose change for undergraduate projects as well.

Signal-11

Sep 18, 2009, 02:49 PM

I never said that:cool:

What you said was:

3) Don't think an undergrad at an ivy league is special.....get your undergrad at an instate school and then go for grad school at an ivy league if you can

Taken in context with the rest of what you've said and with the tone with which you've said it, your implications are quite clear.

I said it's worth considering a local school and potentially save a ton of money over a ivy school

I also know that attending grad school at an ivy school is where it matters more than a local state school as opposed to a undergrad degree

All I have stated is that local schools are more affordable and should be considered. I know so many that automatically think they are above a state school:rolleyes:

It is financially irresponsible to spend time figuring out your interests and not work towards anything at a school where tuition is 40k a year.

Nobody likes to be in debt and I have no idea why you are so adament on disagreeing with me.

I am not saying ivy leagues are bad, and if thats what you want to do great. I just said its really unwise to only consider ivy leagues or private schools

Also, you do not know me and my background so don't try and pass off what I have learned as worthless while proclaiming your own "opinion" as somewhat superior:cool:

Again, you are wrong and you are refusing to listen or be corrected, which is a pattern I'm picking up from you on this thread.

You're right about my not really knowing you or your background, but I know enough from what you've said about yourself to know that it's narrow, especially compared to some others who may be posting here. Am I wrong in stating that your experience with tertiary education has been at a single institution?

The reason I don't like what you're saying is because your opinion is not fully considered and is full of repeated misconceptions.

You constantly keep harping on cost without any consideration that almost any and every Ivy (as well as schools in that sphere) are 1.) need blind and 2.) meet 100% of demonstrated financial need.

What this means is that the poorer you or your family are, the better the deal is for you. For those coming from the lower income tax brackets, you'd actually pay more at a state school than at an Ivy.

The only people who pay the full $40k at an Ivy are the ones who can afford it and those are generally a relatively small slice of the total student population. In general, a student coming from a family an income totaling ~$100k with one kid already in college can expect the school to cover 45-75% of the cost of school, (which includes room, board, books and fees) depending on several factors, including the region from where the student is coming. The overwhelming majority of students are generally on one form of financial aid or another, including many from upper-middle class families. The slice of people who "make too much for financial aid, not enough to afford" is so small as to be a myth. The only people I knew who fell into this hole were generally kids who didn't fill out their financial aid forms properly.

So by no means is this a simple matter of Ivy = $$$$$ and State U = $.

thegoldenmackid

Sep 18, 2009, 02:51 PM

wisconsin's engineering and biotech programs are considered some of the best in the world. Michigan is considered a top 5 university in the world along with uva and berk. These schools are what many refer to as "public Ivys"

reason i said that is because "ivy" is usually meant for US schools

There are schools in China, India,etc that rival our ivy schools yet i do not see them on your list lol

I sorta pre-empted your next comment with "and some others"

Ivy refers to Brown, Columbia, Dartmouth, Yale, Penn, Harvard, Cornell and Princeton. Some arguments are made regarding schools that are of the same quality, but it seems to be understood that those schools are it.

The reason why I suggested those was because it was a response to a comment regarding about chstr above. Which portion of that confused you?

rasmasyean

Sep 18, 2009, 03:00 PM

I have yet to work with an IIT guy who wasn't extremely competent and they'd like to think IIT rivals CalTech or MIT but the reality is that they're in completely different leagues based on money and money alone. Look at research expenditures - the schools and departments that have piles of money every year are going to be the ones that have plenty of loose change for undergraduate projects as well.

Well that’s also part of the equation. If you were the Secretary of Defense, who are you more willing to allocate $10 million to work on the next missile defense system? Unless there’s like some super duper famous rocket scientist at IIT, you’d prolly give it to MIT…where there are already pretty famous scientists as well as top-tier alumni who have ripped a hole into conventional technology wisdom and won nobel prizes, etc.

chstr

Sep 18, 2009, 04:35 PM

I get it, you're an engineer. But don't suggest the field to everyone going to college. I'd have dropped out if I was goaded to go into engineering, because it seems like the least interesting/most miserable way I could have spent my time in college. Your appeal to authority doesn't do anything to sway my opinion (mostly because I'm sure you're lying).

I still insist that people should study whatever they want - do not let others talk you into a certain field.

wrong again. I am a teacher. If I could do it again I would study engineering so I could never have to worry about the economy dictating my chances of survival in the job market(I also find the discipline fascinating). I'm not trying to goad anyone towards a discipline, just making a friendly suggestion based on my observances. But you're young, you have plenty of time to find out on your own... ;)

btw. I have seen too many young people major in music at college that really don't have a clue what they are getting into and later learn it was the biggest mistake of their life. But hey, they studied whatever they wanted to right? (I'm not saying music isn't a great thing to study, I'm just saying some people should really consider their talent before they bet their career on it.

dukebound85

Sep 18, 2009, 04:37 PM

What you said was:

Taken in context with the rest of what you've said and with the tone with which you've said it, your implications are quite clear.

You mis interpreted what I am trying to say then or I am not conveying it well enough

Again, you are wrong and you are refusing to listen or be corrected, which is a pattern I'm picking up from you on this thread.

You're right about my not really knowing you or your background, but I know enough from what you've said about yourself to know that it's narrow, especially compared to some others who may be posting here. Am I wrong in stating that your experience with tertiary education has been at a single institution?

You are wrong

The reason I don't like what you're saying is because your opinion is not fully considered and is full of repeated misconceptions.

You constantly keep harping on cost without any consideration that almost any and every Ivy (as well as schools in that sphere) are 1.) need blind and 2.) meet 100% of demonstrated financial need.

What this means is that the poorer you or your family are, the better the deal is for you. For those coming from the lower income tax brackets, you'd actually pay more at a state school than at an Ivy.

The only people who pay the full $40k at an Ivy are the ones who can afford it and those are generally a relatively small slice of the total student population. In general, a student coming from a family an income totaling ~$100k with one kid already in college can expect the school to cover 45-75% of the cost of school, (which includes room, board, books and fees) depending on several factors, including the region from where the student is coming. The overwhelming majority of students are generally on one form of financial aid or another, including many from upper-middle class families. The slice of people who "make too much for financial aid, not enough to afford" is so small as to be a myth. The only people I knew who fell into this hole were generally kids who didn't fill out their financial aid forms properly.

So by no means is this a simple matter of Ivy = $$$$$ and State U = $.
Christ, all I said is people should consider it

Many students who do well think that they are above state schools if they do well in hs. If they do not have to pay for it great, but if they do and they blindly go to these expensive schools, not knowing what they want to do and what not, it was foolish not to consider a cheaper alternative up front

Never did I say you shouldnt go to an ivy league if you want. I just said that people should consider the state universities:rolleyes:

I am just relaying what I have learned from my experiences. It was posted with the best intentions as I know alot of people who dink around taking classes and raking up debt with nothing to show for it because the norm in our society is that one is expected to go to college right after hs.

I merely advise wait until you know what you want to do before you get in a system where you are paying tens of thousands a year

Thats really the heart of what I am trying to say and I really don't know why you and some others say this "advice" is ill conceived and whatnot...

Well that’s also part of the equation. If you were the Secretary of Defense, who are you more willing to allocate $10 million to work on the next missile defense system? Unless there’s like some super duper famous rocket scientist at IIT, you’d prolly give it to MIT…where there are already pretty famous scientists as well as top-tier alumni who have ripped a hole into conventional technology wisdom and won nobel prizes, etc.

Or they contract it out to a defense contractor and not a university....

chstr

Sep 18, 2009, 04:41 PM

So if Michigan, UVa and Berkeley are top 5, what other two schools in that halo?

well, I mean they are really top 5ish lol. There are fantastic universities in Europe that also compete and of course there are the American Ivys along with Oxford etc. Again... top 5ish ;)

In the end it's all really just..... academic anyway :p

thegoldenmackid

Sep 18, 2009, 04:42 PM

well, I mean they are really top 5ish lol. There are fantastic universities in Europe that also compete and of course there are the American Ivys along with Oxford etc. Again... top 5ish ;)

There are just like 30 universities that are top-5ish..

:D

chstr

Sep 18, 2009, 04:52 PM

There are just like 30 universities that are top-5ish..

:D

touche Watson :p

dukebound85

Sep 18, 2009, 04:56 PM

There are just like 30 universities that are top-5ish..

:D

lol you know how rankings go

1
2
3
4
5
5
5
5
5
5
5
5
5
14

:p

nullx86

Sep 18, 2009, 05:23 PM

Applied and currently attending DeVry University for Computer Engineering

mysterytramp

Sep 18, 2009, 06:12 PM

I graduated from a state university many years ago with a great education. Most of the classes in my major were taught by professionals in the field who knew the difference between brilliance from bullhockey.

Over the course of my career, I've had many occasions to prove my abilities surpass many of my peers who went to more highly rated colleges. But several times, I was shut out of consideration for really good jobs because the people hiring looked at where I went to school, not at what I produced. It was damn frustrating -- almost like a reverse affirmative action for privileged white males who went to exclusive northeastern liberal arts colleges.

And now I'm preparing a daughter to enter college ... We haven't seen what financial aid packages are going to be offered her, but she's well above average with many attributes that could impress an admissions counselor. Still, I know what the competition is like, and she might not be THAT above average to snag a lucrative scholarship.

So I'm left with a dilemma on what guidance to offer. Do I tell her about the jobs that went to other, less qualified people because the morons wanted to surround themselves with like-minded frat boys? Or do I tell her to follow her instincts, even if the college might not impress some future manager poring over her resume?

For now, she's got a range of places on her mind. Recently, she's decided to at least apply to an in-state school, thinking she might have more money (or really less debt) to ease her entry into graduate school. I'm confident she'll find her way and make the right choice, I just wish there were fewer morons in the world.

mt