G5, for real?

[Ifeelbloated]

Okay guys, I was surfing around and found this. Take it for what it's worth. We all know that the G5 is coming. It's just when.
www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/21692.html

[SilvorX]

hmm maybe half a year - year maybe

[G4scott]

uh, that's kinda old, but it'd surely be nice to have something like that in August... You never know, Apple could be putting the finishing touches on the G5 as we speak :D (or they'll probably just introduce speed bumped G4's...)

[javadev]

Originally posted by Ifeelbloated
Okay guys, I was surfing around and found this. Take it for what it's worth. We all know that the G5 is coming. It's just when.
www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/21692.html

Hmm, here's a thought... remember the steve jobs quote about having "options" when more users are switched over to OSX at the end of the year. Initially this was interpreted as an indication of using x86 processor (intel/amd). What if instead, it was referring to the G5. The G5 is a 64bit processor, and perhaps sufficiently different from the G4 that they are having trouble getting os9 and classic apps working on the G5, so they have to delay rolling the G5 until enough users, and enough key apps are ported to osx. So maybe what we are waiting for is more a software thing than a hardware thing.

Anyways, just speculation.

-- Rob

[Mr. Anderson]

Unfortunately that article has been around since last September, its caused more then enough speculation - its says that the processors are ready for mass production - why haven't we seen it yet? I think its more than an issue of compatibility with os9.

[javadev]

Originally posted by dukestreet
Unfortunately that article has been around since last September, its caused more then enough speculation - its says that the processors are ready for mass production - why haven't we seen it yet? I think its more than an issue of compatibility with os9.

yeah, I saw the date on the article. I also saw the mention of osx v10.2 at same time.

I wasn't thinking so much about compatibility with os9 itself, but compatibility with classic apps from 3rd parties. Migrating to 64bit address space could be a bitch if your code wasn't well written... cast that pointer to a 32bit int and back, and whoops, now things don't work. What if the g5 never supports os9... if apple mis-calculated how quickly users and 3rd party sw vendors would migrate to osx, maybe the ended up in a situation where hw is ready or close to being ready, but a lot of the important software won't run on it.

Anyways, just a wild ass guess. I'll have to read up on some of the other hardware vendors who've already made the 32->64b jump (sun, sgi) and see how it went for them

[big]

I bet December 2003 for the G5's, and would not be surprised if G4's went to 1.5 by january

[Mr. Anderson]

considering that we're still waiting to see Quark made ready for OSX, you have a point. Throwing a new processor in the mix that requires a rewrite of code would be a dissaster. It makes sense, but its frustrating all the same that we have to wait....

D

[void]

i think that the g5 doesn't support OS 9. They're just waiting for the os X percentage to go up so they can unveil it. Apple certainly has the ability to make the g5. They just don't want to piss people off like they did with .mac

[mmmdreg]

That sounds reaally good but because of its out-of-date status, it's a bit hard to believe...

[G4scott]

The Register is usually a pretty dependable source on these matters, or at least as long as I can remember. It's only a matter of time...

[Mr. Anderson]

ha, saying its only a matter of time before we'll see the G5 is like saying its only a matter of time until they find a cure for cancer. Its theoretically possible that it will happen, but there is no guarantee when it will happen.

D

[big]

>Throwing a new processor in the mix that requires a rewrite of code would be a dissaster

My CAD software (engsw.com) had to completely rewrite their initial build for OSX due to it being modified so greatly from 10 to 10.1

I see 10.1 as the Beta, and 10.2 as the REAL deal (final build) there's the baby...

I will astound you with pointless posts later

[MacMaster]

One more reason that will not happen anytime soon: The plant that will make the G5's, in Germany I believe, isn't even finised being built yet. I read that in an earlier thread and thought you might like to know.

-MacMaster

[big]

are we talking 2004? then I might as well buy now *heavy sigh*

[MacMaster]

Originally posted by big
are we talking 2004? then I might as well buy now *heavy sigh*
Possibly not...I'm not sure how far along the construction of the plant is, but my guess is that the G5's will be previewed at MWSF and be realeased a month or two later because the plant won't be ready for full scale production of the G5 at the time of MWSF. That's just my guess...:rolleyes:

-MacMaster

[big]

when is MWSF

[Sun Baked]

Again it's a RapidIO vs Hypertransport thing - Apple's working with both standards groups.

AMD has sources for hypertransport chipsets and have been sampling since June, they're expecting machines to begin shipping in Q4. Since it's and evolution of the existing bus, it'll most likely be widely adopted - hence cheap.

RapidIO group is just finishing the unified (serial/parallel) specs for the new bus standard - sampling expected in Q1 of next year (meaning machines most likely next summer, Cisco will jump on it ASAP). The RapidIO standard looks a lot like a packet-switched network, which means it'll probably be widely accepted in the data and telecom market first.

And remember Apple typically lags the market in the adoption of major level PC bus & IO adoption.

But then again Apple shipped USB/Firewire far ahead of the rest of the market.

[Durandal7]

Originally posted by big
when is MWSF
Early January

[King Cobra]

Ugh, that article was indeed from September 17, 2001. And it's from the Register, which is a site of crap, worse than spymac, if you ask me.

It seems like every time someone brings up the issue of G5s, we expect something to come out soon. Unless I see an article that says somewhere in it: "Apple has [officially] confirmed that...G5s...will be available...in [some time]" then there will be no G5 chips. I'm starting to wonder if we will see another round of G4 PowerMacs after the upcoming update (suppose it was August), possibly using the 7500 chips Motorola has planned. (Right, planned...)

I'm just ticked that Motorola has kept Apple so behind like this. I mean, the OS is great and all, but it seems as if the MHz war is not winning people over. I propose the Gigaflops war. Can a $3000 or cheaper peecee perform 15 billion float-point operations in a second? I didn't think so. :cool:

[Macpoops]

for all you arguing about rewriting code for 64 bit you should read the article again supposedly the G5 runs 32 bit code at full speed. And isn't the G5 already in use in the embedded market by like cisco or something?

[Gatorman]

I think I'll stir things up here a little. Besides, this is a rumor site. :D I think Appleand Mortola have delayed on the release of the G5 because there will never be a G5! They're going to go straight to the G6! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! :D




I know, I know. It's just wishful thinking and a bunch of malarchy. Just thought I'd go out on a limb. :D

[MacMaster]

Originally posted by Gatorman
I think I'll stir things up here a little. Besides, this is a rumor site. :D I think Appleand Mortola have delayed on the release of the G5 because there will never be a G5! They're going to go straight to the G6! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! :D




I know, I know. It's just wishful thinking and a bunch of malarchy. Just thought I'd go out on a limb. :D
Ok let me see...um...no! That was one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen! Gatorman I know you're a newbie here and so am I, but you shouldn't post dumb things like that. Maybe there will never be anything named G5, but they will not just jump a number.:rolleyes: I'm not trying to start a flame war here so don't jump on me.:eek:Your limb just broke.:D

-MacMaster

[big]

>but they will not just jump a number

I was just thinking that maybe they will not actually call the release after the G5 the G6,

maybe they will realize they have already maxed out the G5 processor (8000 series) and will immediatly stop jerking us around and give us something better...

however, I bet I'm the first one to order the new dual 1.6ghz when released

or maybe they'll just go broke, I'd like to hear of what you think that would do to us

[MacMaster]

Remember all, G=generation. So far there have been 4 generations of processors.
1. 680XX (whatever that series was)
2. 601, 603, 604(I'm not sure if there was a 602)
3. the 750 chip commonly known as the G3
4. The 74XX chip commonly known as the G4

If apple went broke I might as well just die...My life would end...I would be tossed into the endless void of PC land...under the rule of the evil empire microsoft...ok I'm done now:D

-MacMaster

[big]

you did it again, someone lowered my post count, I'll contend its my G3, think my wife will fall for that?

[Gatorman]

Originally posted by MacMaster

Ok let me see...um...no! That was one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen! Gatorman I know you're a newbie here and so am I, but you shouldn't post dumb things like that. Maybe there will never be anything named G5, but they will not just jump a number.:rolleyes: I'm not trying to start a flame war here so don't jump on me.:eek:Your limb just broke.:D

-MacMaster


Hey, lighten up! Don't you know what sarcasm is? If you actually thought I was being realistic with that post, then you really need to get off your computer and go outside for a little while! Besides, all of this discussion about the G5 is getting old, anyway.

[big]

>all of this discussion about the G5 is getting old, anyway.

this is a rumor board, what's wrong about being speculative...

it's not another pda post at least (right eye)

[dongmin]

A lot of pointless posts on a pointless topic. (Hey I can say that now that I'm a Macrumors "regular.")

If you do a search in the Register, they've posted about 5 articles last year all saying the same thing: "Oooh, the G5 is ALMOST ready; you'll see'em in Powermacs in no time; Apple's doing tests on 'em as we speak; and they kick major x86 as$!"

They're much to blame for the crazy buildup to the last MWSF. I used to think that they were more reasonable than the others but they're no better than Spymac or MOSR. Don't believe a thing they say.

Also, even if G5's were "ready" and being tested, I don't think anyone has any idea when Moto will be able to produce them at sufficient enough quantities to ship in Powermacs. That's always been the biggest hang-up about the PowerPC. Not that the technology isn't great or that the development isn't coming along but that Moto can't get the manufacturing right. Old news.

[big]

yeah..I used to "believe", now I'm seriously starting to doubt if we can ever catch up

[Ifeelbloated]

Just a question I thought I'd throw out. How long does it take for a semiconductor manufacturer to produce a processor in volume? Are there any semiconductor engineers out there that can answer me that?

[MacCoaster]

Originally posted by MacMaster
Remember all, G=generation. So far there have been 4 generations of processors.
1. 680XX (whatever that series was)
2. 601, 603, 604(I'm not sure if there was a 602)
3. the 750 chip commonly known as the G3
4. The 74XX chip commonly known as the G4

If apple wen't broke I might as well just die...My life would end...I would be tossed into the endless void of PC land...under the rule of the evil empire microsoft...ok I'm done now:D

-MacMaster

Actually it's:

G1: 601
G2: 603 and 604
G3: 750[xx] (where xx can be FX)
G4: 7400, 7410, 7445, 7455

[scem0]

Well I was happy after reading that article, but now after reading all the posts im sad again :(. It looks like we have a wait to see the g5, but it does sound like the g4 is gunna get a major tune up with the 7460. I really hope we arent going to lose the battle (speedwise) with PCs, the mac platform needs speed. Motorola needs to get off their arses and start to get some faster processors. :D god the semiconductor business must be stressful with constant demands on higher speed:).

[pianojoe]

Originally posted by vjv
i think that the g5 doesn't support OS 9. (...)

You're right. The G5 will not support (booting into) OS 9. It HAS TO support Classic though, but this will be an "emergency only" emulation environment which will add a lot of VPC-ish behaviour to Classic.

Of course, :D then, OS X will no longer feel sluggish compared to Classic. As we say back home, one's owl might be another's nightingale.

[macmunch]

But maybe the G5 is already ready since March and is right now in producten to have big quanties to ship it in new power macs ?

We now nothing about the status of the G5 so we cant say if he is ready or is in devolpment.

I for myself think he is ready, the G4 dont gets really new impovements, he is just the old G4.

So, what is moto doing since 3 years ?

There is a G5 we only dont now the status of him.

[MisterMe]

Originally posted by pianojoe


You're right. The G5 will not support (booting into) OS 9. It HAS TO support Classic though, but this will be an "emergency only" emulation environment which will add a lot of VPC-ish behaviour to Classic.

Of course, :D then, OS X will no longer feel sluggish compared to Classic. As we say back home, one's owl might be another's nightingale.

You are confused. The G5's processor will be backward-compatible with the G4. Whether or not the computer boots into MacOS 9 depends on the Classic environment installed on it. There are rumblings that Apple will more tightly integrate Classic into MacOS X so as render booting into MacOS 9 unnecessary. However, it is unlikely that the your new G5 will not be bootable from a MacOS 9 partition. MacOS 9 should be bootable on any Open Firmware computer.

[OKComputer]

dunno....

after reading up on theoretical speeds of the Moto G5 and the Power4...I really hope the next gen G5s are based on the IBM technology

[big]

lots of interesting thoughts & opinions (as well as some good ol fashioned mis-spelling!)

time is what it takes to find the answers on all these questions, though Apple is quickly running out of time.


their chip manufacturing is funded by the %5 of apple buyers, where as the PC market is much more diversified, and easier to fund development and research

[macwannabe]

Well I for one am convinced that the G4s etc are much more efficient that the P4s so I don't think there's anything to worry about when it comes to processors, it's the bus and memory that bother me and what everyone should be worried about. Ever since the Pentium 60MHz the limiting factor has been the bus, memory and hard disk. There's no point in having a super fast processor if it spends 99% of its time waiting for data which is what is happening; especially with ATA66 hard drives.

Never mind the G5, DDR2700 and ATA133 and we'll be away, stick with SDRAM and ATA66 and you won't even notice you've got a new processor!

[Liamcow]

16Gb of RAM? I just refuse to believe that:mad:
I know, I know, I'm a Pessimest:(

[mr_austin]

If the G5 was ready but for classic support, why wouldn't they release it in an Xserve? As long as it works with Apache, PHP, File sharing services, Shake, Maya, Combustion, After Effects, etc, etc, there would be a huge market for it in server/render farms... I don't think thats a likely reason.

my .02

-a

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by javadev


Hmm, here's a thought... remember the steve jobs quote about having "options" when more users are switched over to OSX at the end of the year. Initially this was interpreted as an indication of using x86 processor (intel/amd). What if instead, it was referring to the G5. The G5 is a 64bit processor, and perhaps sufficiently different from the G4 that they are having trouble getting os9 and classic apps working on the G5, so they have to delay rolling the G5 until enough users, and enough key apps are ported to osx. So maybe what we are waiting for is more a software thing than a hardware thing.

Anyways, just speculation.

-- Rob

Nope, your first thought is correct. Apple's next bug dog will not be the G5 or at least the G5 we thought MOT would give us. It will be an IBM POWER4-core. Also, AMD is producing an x86 mobo for Apple that will dual boot windows and X. Those are the options, however, the AMD option might be a 'just in case' scenario. Otherwise, expect the POWER4-core this time next year.

[big]

I'm not worried about having to use pentium type products...it will give apple a bigger share, and we get better prices as demand goes up.

It would be the best scenario now that we have gone to a Unix core. However, all the applications we are running now, will they work off a pentium or amd chip?

will all the software developers have to again, rewrite their codes next year?

[bousozoku]

It would make more sense that the G5 would show up in some version of a server. Limited production and a lack of need to run client software would prove the processor's ability without undue stress on the majority of software developers.

[i_wolf]

Hi all,
I am living in ireland which seams to be most computer and processor manufacturers european headquarters.
Microsoft have a huge European headquarters in Dublin, Intel have a huge Euro headquarters and P4 and Itanium 2 manufacturing plants here. Apple has a huge headquarters down the road in Cork where they manufacture and assemble the powermac line. AMD are rumored to be building a fab in Kildare for their Hammer line processors.
Ok the reason i am giving this background is that currently apple are running switch adds over here (in ireland a very processor aware country) I am a newie to the mac scene... but then so was everyone in this forum at one stage or another. I never used a mac until recently when OS X blew me away. As a final year comp science student i was amazed that all my shell scripts worked under OS X. Now this is where i reckon apple are going... i reckon that there will be a G5 soon. I reckon that they would not have started a 'switch' campaign without some hardware toback it up. Think of it this way.... the first thing a pc user typically will want to know after seeing the switch adds whether ignorant or not is whether the mac is more powerful in its current guise than the PC. Now AMD are soon to start promoting its X86 32/64 line of '64bit' processors which will be taking over from the main athlon line. Intel are also supposed to have a hybrid chip ready as well. Intel also has Itanium 2. Now based on the rumored specs of 64bit for g5... would apple not be shooting themselves in the foot with their 'switch' adverts if they did not have something to back it up with. At least have something ready to part take in the upcoming '64 bit' onslaught! Keeping in mind that those 'switch' adverts indirectly are making the pceee market more directly competetive with the mac market... "the whole anything you can do on a pc you can do better on a mac"...... so apple is indirectly telling pc users to 'switch' to superior hardware software and hardware..... they have produced on the software but they have got to produce on the hardware front.... the G4 is 3 years old at this stage.... thats a long life time.... they have to have a new type processor and system bus, memory etc... due soon if they are not to fall victim to their own marketing.
Ultimately will many people still be interested in 'switching' to a 32bit machine (g4 speed bumped) when they can 'switch' to 64bit x86 hardware instead. Unfortunately this will be the case unless apple gets back in the game soon. I think that apple know this and will not let themselves get caught out. ALso wouldn't AUgust to October be the perfect time to launch a counter offensive against the pc world.... with a native 64bit g5 launching against a hybrid x86 32/64. Go figure.
Any contructive opinions here?? I am know i am new here and probably totally wrong.... its just my opinion and i am quite happy to be enlightened by those of you who have been here for ages. Teach me!
regards,
i_wolf

[MacMaster]

Originally posted by MacCoaster


Actually it's:

G1: 601
G2: 603 and 604
G3: 750[xx] (where xx can be FX)
G4: 7400, 7410, 7445, 7455
Well what can I say? I was pretty close!:rolleyes: