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arn
Jul 20, 2002, 01:21 PM
Financial Analyst Meeting Webcast (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/analyst_meeting_q302/) also provides more information about Steve Jobs' view of PDA's.

(26m 25s) Steve Jobs speaks about how they decided about 3 years ago, they felt that PDAs would eventually evolve into next generation Cell Phones, and that PDA's will become a smaller market.

This is not the first time that Apple/Jobs has downplayed the possiblity of an Apple PDA.

Edge100
Jul 20, 2002, 01:32 PM
Hopefully, this will put the Apple PDA talk to rest for good...although I doubt it.

drastik
Jul 20, 2002, 01:35 PM
oh, yeah, maybe we can finally put that one to rest, but now we're gonna get the phone rumors. Maye valid though, a sonyE made Apple Branded phone.
;)

nero007
Jul 20, 2002, 01:39 PM
As I've suspected for a while (since that Erikkson deal). They won't make the current form of PDA. I still think something is in the works in this market though. More cell phone related.

ennerseed
Jul 20, 2002, 01:43 PM
Thankfully there is a big difference between a PDA and a handheld.
The iPod is almost a PDA.
But I still dream of the day Apple releases a handheld.

cryptochrome
Jul 20, 2002, 01:49 PM
See. Now this explanation makes sense. Frankly I agree - PDAs are too bulky (heck, lots of cell phones are too), but many of the things they do are still useful. The trick is figuring out how to put all that - the screen, the writing area - in such a tiny package. If anyone can do it, Apple can. I'm guessing we're waiting on effective voice recognition/reproduction and eye projections before this will be a reality.

iGav
Jul 20, 2002, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Edge100
Hopefully, this will put the Apple PDA talk to rest for good...although I doubt it.

Heh heh....:p :p

I wonder what people will talk about now??? :confused: :p

Eye will be pleased though at the thought of no more Apple PDA threads...... :D


I'd still like to see Apple make a portable media player........ like an iPod/Quicktime player combo....... that can stream content on the fly and store movies...... all in a svelte, clean, minimal case........ :)

ShaolinMiddleFinger
Jul 20, 2002, 02:25 PM
I hope more cell phones companies jump on the bandwagon because the Sony and Ericsson phones look ugly. I would really like it if Nokia joined the game. Nokia was the first cell phone company to allow consumers to customize their phone. They also have a pda/minicomputer phone, the 9290. Go to nokia.com to see it.

iGav
Jul 20, 2002, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by ShaolinMiddleFinger
I hope more cell phones companies jump on the bandwagon because the Sony and Ericsson phones look ugly. I would really like it if Nokia joined the game. Nokia was the first cell phone company to allow consumers to customize their phone. They also have a pda/minicomputer phone, the 9290. Go to nokia.com to see it.

I totally agree with you here....... the Sony/Ericsson look like those crazy i-mode phones in Japan..... any even worse is that they only look cool in Teletubby land..... It's a shame cos I love the Sony Z7 phone..... it's so cool looking and I'm sure that Sony/Ericsson could do better than what they're currently doing......

Although I'm not really a fan of Nokia........ the last great fone they did was the 7110...... although there's a Nokia ad on UK tv at the mo.... advertising Minority Report and at the end there's a really cool Nokia fone, with a sliding keyboard, kind of like the reverse of the 7710........ gimmicks.... gotta love them...... :p

ShaolinMiddleFinger
Jul 20, 2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by iGAV


Although I'm not really a fan of Nokia........ the last great fone they did was the 7110...... although there's a Nokia ad on UK tv at the mo.... advertising Minority Report and at the end there's a really cool Nokia fone, with a sliding keyboard, kind of like the reverse of the 7710........ gimmicks.... gotta love them...... :p

You should go and look up the Nokia 8890. It's almost like 7100 series phones but smaller,built in antenna with world phone capabilities. That's the one I have. It's a great phone. There's also the 8910 but it doesn't work here in the states so looks like I have to wait for that one to come here

gandalf55
Jul 20, 2002, 04:03 PM
nokia 9220 is nice, runs flash, wicked slow proc., limited RAM, etc. imagine a cellphone that:

1. stored contact lists / dialed / stored messages
2. had a didital camera that could send images via ftp or email
3. had a flash-front end for the OS
4. had a qwerty keyboard
5. had 128M+ RAM
6. had 60Gig drive
7. could last 20 hrs. normal use
8. could be switched to phone mode only to save power
9. was always "on"
10. doubled as a pager/messenger
11. streaming video (ie. FoxNews mini-feed)
12. gps built in

i'm sure it's real close to becoming a reality. apple & macromedia could work with a Sony and Toshiba, etc. to make this a reality!!!

i would love to see this.

King Cobra
Jul 20, 2002, 04:04 PM
Certainly the iPod has become a lot cheaper, but I think adding on all these functions (cell phone, Internet, some wireless crap) would bring the price up on this PDA, especially if there was a lot of compressed and expensive hardware, such as the 1.8 inch Hard Drive. It wouldn't make sense, anyways. How many people are actually going to use all of the functions on the PDA? To name a few...
Address Book
mp3 player
Portable Hard Drive
Calendar
Clock
Breakout (:D)
Phone
Remote
Pictures

If you really need all these features for a cheap price from Apple, you are a total geek. :rolleyes: :D

AudiA4
Jul 20, 2002, 04:09 PM
Apple basically created the market with the revolutionary Newton - which is still the best PDA to date (I own a Newton Messagepad 2000 AND a Compaq iPaq 3835). The truth is, that Sculleys original vision for the Personal Digital Assistant (a quoin he termed) was that of a wireless communication device. That's why it prints, faxes, emails, and makes phone calls out of the box - features that neither Palm or Pocket PC have yet to totally integrate. It was just 10 years too early.

It's a complete shame that Jobs didn't just let Newton Inc. sail on its own, as it may have evolved into the original "hybrid" communication device that Sculley envisioned and Jobs is now predicting. Hey Steve...newsflash: this is what the Newton was envisioned to become!

Apple DID own this market, and abandon it just as it took off. It's now poised to explode as wireless connectivity becomes commonplace - resulting in hybrid communication devices. The market for desktops has matured, but wireless handhelds are the next wave. It will be huge.

For all of you who abhore the idea of a handheld, so be it. But while you're shackeled to your desktop, a slave to your desk making fun of PDA's, I'll be travelling the world and the web all at once. Unfortunately, it won't be on Apple hardware.

MikeH
Jul 20, 2002, 04:13 PM
While mobile phones are here to stay and their rise in popularity has been phenominal (particually in Europe, where I live), for Apple to jump on the mobile bandwagon and manufacture phones would be madness.

The main reason why Motorola (and many other phone manufacturers) have hit financial rough water is because of their rush too make make newer phones and sell them at a loss. The mobile phone market is moving faster than the computer market at the moment. Only Nokia seem to doing OK financially.

Apple are right to intergrate them into their operating system - even though there's no Apple Bluetooth hardware yet, but they should leave the phones themselves to others.

Goekeli
Jul 20, 2002, 05:44 PM
This is the beginning of a great product and Woz is involved. http://www.danger.com/products.php


XXX

Goe

PS Yes my first post!~)

Timothy
Jul 20, 2002, 06:04 PM
Many of you think that if Master Jobs has spoken...the decision has been made. While this may have some practical merit...I still maintain that SJ is simply wrong on this issue.

Unfortunately, by being wrong, Steve is hurting Apple with this short-sighted and visionless position.

There is a need for ultra-portable computing solutions. Currently, the only options that exist suck; what's worse, none of them integrate with the Apple OS well.

I'll never stop talking about PDAs and/or Ultra-portable solutions. It is a logical computing outlet. Just because Steve Jobs doesn't need it doesn't mean that there isn't a viable need for it. It just means that Steve fails to recognize such a need.

It troubles me that so many of you are willing to surrender your decision on the topic based solely on the decision of Steve Jobs. We convert Steve to a God only to our detriment; at the point that the Apple community turns him into a religious icon...the future of Apple computing will look bleak indeed.

Now...let's continue discussing PDAs.

richard5mith
Jul 20, 2002, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
I totally agree with you here....... the Sony/Ericsson look like those crazy i-mode phones in Japan..... any even worse is that they only look cool in Teletubby land..... It's a shame cos I love the Sony Z7 phone..... it's so cool looking and I'm sure that Sony/Ericsson could do better than what they're currently doing......

I have an Ericsson T39 phone, one of the one's supported by iSync, and like all the Ericsson phones I know of, it comes in various colours. Mine is black, and certainly doesn't look like something from tellytubby land. :)

And the big advantage over the Z7 (I had the Z5 before) is that it actually has a decent UI. The Sony Z5/Z7 have perhaps the worst interface ever put on a cellphone. The jog wheel is only the beginning, it's totally horrible. I don't like Nokia phones, but UI is one thing they do well.

I recommend the T39 to anybody wanting a phone to work with iSync.

MhzDoesMatter
Jul 20, 2002, 06:20 PM
For the most part, if Jobs has spoken, that is the decision.

Thats funny though. Most people like to believe that Steve Jobs is the absolute authority. It allows them to believe that Apple is a person, not a business. Then we can get whatever products we want because Steve's a nice guy. In your case, when Steve says no to something you've set your heart on, now we have to realize that Steve is not the Absolute Authority.

Just because you need an ultra-portable computer solution doesn't mean sufficiently profitable market exists. That's what business is about. Steve could give a dam about our needs unless those needs can be met for a profit. PDA's or UPCS's if you want, are not profitable right now. Infact, they're dying. Handspring's Treo's are closer to the next gen of PDA's. Apple is not just gonna jump into that market when they know its bleeding left and right.

You dont ever have to stop talking about PDA's. But keep ranting about an Apple-branded one and you'll just be embarrasing yourself. This is a legitimate need for you. But don't expect Apple to meet it. Cause they aint interested.



Truth Hertz....

AmbitiousLemon
Jul 20, 2002, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by AudiA4

For all of you who abhore the idea of a handheld, so be it. But while you're shackeled to your desktop, a slave to your desk making fun of PDA's, I'll be travelling the world and the web all at once. Unfortunately, it won't be on Apple hardware.

Originally posted by MikeH

The main reason why Motorola (and many other phone manufacturers) have hit financial rough water is because of their rush too make make newer phones and sell them at a loss. The mobile phone market is moving faster than the computer market at the moment. Only Nokia seem to doing OK financially.

i think these were the best couple of comments ive seen posted here. and although they seem to be of different opinions, i have to agree with both of them. apple is writing off the pda/cell concept because they do not feel they can enter the market in a profitable or competitive manner.

that being said we must remember that the ipod has been stated to be a 'testing the waters' device and has been a huge sucess. apple is not blind. they will enter markets where they can find profitability. still i think many who oppose a pda are simply opposed because they lack imagination and have the image of a current palm handheld in mind. i do not think any of us believe apple should enter the handheld market in any manner that can be likened to current handheld options.

apple is right that pda functionality can be easily and appropriatly incorporated into cell phones. this is a good place for thsi functionality since it does not require much processor power and everyone carries a cellphone already.

but what apple has not discussed in any of these statements and what most people here seem to miss is that when the few apple pda faithful discuss what they want they are not describing machineschines that can be thought of as modern pdas. what we are describing is largely a wireless termainal for controling our desktops remotely, relaying information, providinga wireless synching terminal for other devices (like steve's uber-phone), and doing this all not by giving us all the components of a desktop miniturized (as handheld peecees do) but by providing the minimal amount of hardware needed to properly use the power built-in to our other devices (desktop, cellphone, etc). bluetooth, airport, rendezvous, inkwell these are the technologies that bring the power of our other devices together. all we need is something portable taht allows us to use that monster desktop processor wherever we go. this is not a smaller laptop, merely a portable terminal for all our devices. this is not what is ever discussed in these jobsian quotes.

Nipsy
Jul 20, 2002, 07:13 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

A device (be it Apple or otherwise) needs to exist which combines the pocket luggage.

I carry an iPod, a Palm, a digital camera, and a cell phone. This is too much. Others carry the above, plus a pager (or even two).

The technologies in these items are too closely related not to be combined.

The iPod has a 20gb drive as of Aug. 1. This is enough space to run 15GB of music, 4GB of photos, and 1 GB of PDA OS & soft telephony (um, 3G. Okay, install the 3G software, Pager? Okay, install the pager software, You need GPS? Here's the package. IM? Web? Mail?...etc.).

You won't complain about outdated phones, because you'll dl the new package to take advantage. It can work with any network which develops a software package.

Tie in a nice, but not pro level, ccd via a card slot, and you've got a mid-range camera. GPS may require its own hardware as well. You get the idea...

Danger is close (I've used their device), but lack in the storage area.

Treo/Samsung/etc have integrated PDA/Phone.

iPod is PDA sans input.

It doesn't take rocket science to KNOW that this product will exist, but the question is who will make it, and when will it arrive.

To succeed it needs to be:
a) functional across all target arenas
b) elegant enough to justify a $5-600 price
c) robust enough to make redundant its competition

Without speculating on Apple's foray into this market, I can tell you that they have the IP & R & D to do it better than Danger. Previous to the iPod, no-one thought Apple was going to target the already saturated MP3 market. I would go so far as to say that Apple spends more on R & D annually than Danger has been given by VCs.

BTW, the ceo of Danger is a former Apple employee (Andy Rubin), and Woz does sit on their board.

The usual suspects (eye, Alpha...) will argue against this, or at least against it being made by Apple, but there are many companies who realize that people will pay to integrate their 'devices'. While it will not be the best at all intended tasks, it could fill a major void for those who need a good 'everything' device. No-one wants to be walking down the street with a tool belt full of pack 'o smokes size gadgets when one will do.

Save for policemen, and über geek elitists...

Cappy
Jul 20, 2002, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by MhzDoesMatter
For the most part, if Jobs has spoken, that is the decision.

It truly depends on what it is. I seem to recall him announcing the death of the CRT with the introduction of the lcd iMac. Sure people pointed out that the original crt iMac was still available so we figured well that will be just to clear stock. What did Apple do? Come out with the eMac to the education market and then the consumer market. So quite frankly I think we're starting to see that Jobs isn't as much of the tunnel vision tyrant that many used to see him as. Don't get me wrong as he is the boss afterall so him speaking should be the decision but it's open to review and change it seems now where it may not have been before.

Silver Dragon
Jul 20, 2002, 08:15 PM
I have to agree with the above poster. I have owned a slew of Newton devices, Windows CE devices and am eyeing the new PocketPC devices. Newton, even today, is far more powerful than these devices. The *only* reason Apple killed the Newton was Steve's ego. Actually, they had broken away from Apple and formed Newton Inc right before Steve came back in. Steve yanked Newton back into Apple and then killed them. There was no financial reason to do this, unless it was an ego thing.

The Newton was designed to be fully expandable. It prints, faxes, e-mails, surfs the web, I have mine on my 802.11 network, has the worlds best handwriting recognition, and thinks like you do. I can use it to take notes on the fly and not have to learn graffiti... Actually, it does not matter. Steve's ego killed the Newton.

Steve is 100% correct. The PDA will become the all in one device, just like what the Newton was. Apple owned this market, and rather than capitalize on their extreme lead in market, they killed the project. Were there problems with the Newton? Yes, but had Apple listened to their customers they could have worked it all out.

The point is that this is not a Steve is right thing. Apple already had and sold this technology. Even to this day it's better than most devices out there. But I think early next year the tables will turn, PocketPC will have caught up and I'll buy a Pocket PC device. Since they only really sync to a PC, I guess I'll be buying a PC too. I use 2000 and XP all day at work, and it's not that bad. OS X is better, but if I can't sync my PDA then I don't want it.

I think Apple is doing anything it can do keep its market share down. Why listen to your customers when you have a vision and it *has* to be right. I will wait 1 year. I *MAY* get the Sony/Ericsson P800 w/ bluetooth. That might fit the bill, but I will be giving up a lot to get that functionality (at the same time, it will be more convenient.)

Anyhow, that's just my $5.75. I have been wrong many times before and please remember that it's just my opinion. Some of this may be dead on, other stuff may be wrong. Take any post with a grain of salt.

-SD

wHo_tHe
Jul 20, 2002, 09:16 PM
A handheld computer is different from a PDA. Apple was careful not to call the Newton 2x00 series a PDA, which it isn't. It includes those functions, but the final Newtons were very small computers, plain and simple.

Jobs is right. The PDA is going away. He's right, 3G cell phones are going to move into the contact management space.

But I think Jobs knows the difference between a PDA and a handheld, and what's more is he knows his competitors listen carefully to these analyst meetings. The smoke put off by his rant against 'PDAs' could be enough to cover Apple's tracks in the handheld direction.

Any handheld from Apple won't be a 'PDA'; it will be a full-functioned, scaled-down Macintosh with a new set of functions tailored to extreme portability. And I still expect to see that, when the time is right, which, right now, it isn't.

wHo_tHe
Jul 20, 2002, 09:18 PM
Any Apple nut should absolutely listen to the entire meeting re-broadcast. Fascinating stuff directly from Jobs and crew.

My Orange Soda!
Jul 20, 2002, 11:11 PM
Wasn't there a software demonstration using iSync to sync a cell phone and os x during the macworld keynote?

scem0
Jul 20, 2002, 11:22 PM
An apple phone would be very useful. Especially with InkWell, randezvous, and iSync. Apple could make a quality phone but everyone knows it would be overpriced.

:(

Ovi
Jul 21, 2002, 12:14 AM
1

Silver Dragon
Jul 21, 2002, 12:19 AM
Having worked for Apple Retail before I can assure you he was making it up and at the very least violating Apple policy, assuming he was an actual Apple employee.

As a security measure (if you will) Apple does not disclose future products to any Apple Retail employees. This includes the Apple employees that are assigned to the CompUSA stores (note that Apple Retail and the CompUSA Apple employees are from two different groups, but are given the same info...)

Just an FYI...

-SD

j763
Jul 21, 2002, 12:34 AM
While we're at it, let's put something else to rest too:

SonyEricsson phones rule... Higher quality and newer technologies -- just like apple. Nokia make cheap, cr@ppy phones that seriously lack in functionality -- just like pc manafacturers.

I'm glad to hear that apple has chosen to ally itself with SonyEricsson.

Silver Dragon
Jul 21, 2002, 12:43 AM
Actually, I have to agree.

I have the T68 and am having the firmware upgraded to the T68i (the phone seen at the MacWorld keynote). This phone rocks!

I have used the Nokia 8890, 8260, and played with the 9000 series (before it was available in the US.) Although they have *great* menu systems, the phones themselves are lacking.

Motorola phones suck. The hardware sucks, the menu is horrid, and the keypad is designed by a moron. I have never had to send in a phone for so many RMAs before in my life.

I have only had one Samgsung phone, and it was nice. Replaced it with the S/E T60, and I must say... It's the best phone ever.

Everyone has their own preference in phones. They all rock and they all suck. Just like the service providers. My personal favorite has to be the new S/E phones, specifically the P800... Those are some sweet phones.

-SD

Cappy
Jul 21, 2002, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by Ovi
When people see the speed increases with 10.2 they will be less reluctant to pay for the upgrade.

It is interesting that people are griping about this when there seems to be some major improvements. I actually think that had Apple called it 10.5 or dare I say it, 11? That people would have been more mentally prepared for paying for it.

Ovi
Jul 21, 2002, 02:08 AM
1

goldmember
Jul 21, 2002, 02:12 AM
It is interesting that people are griping about this when there seems to be some major improvements. I actually think that had Apple called it 10.5 or dare I say it, 11? That people would have been more mentally prepared for paying for it.

Why do you think Windows XP is selling so well, apparently?

Bring on OSXX!!

iGav
Jul 21, 2002, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by richard5mith


I have an Ericsson T39 phone, one of the one's supported by iSync, and like all the Ericsson phones I know of, it comes in various colours. Mine is black, and certainly doesn't look like something from tellytubby land. :)

And the big advantage over the Z7 (I had the Z5 before) is that it actually has a decent UI. The Sony Z5/Z7 have perhaps the worst interface ever put on a cellphone. The jog wheel is only the beginning, it's totally horrible. I don't like Nokia phones, but UI is one thing they do well.

I recommend the T39 to anybody wanting a phone to work with iSync.

Some of the fones that Sony Ericsson and come to think of it Nokia are knocking out at the mo are just like totally kiddy... like 'My first fone'....... the worst colour schemes ever........ I believe Tinky Winky, Dipsy, La La and Po were the colour consultants on some of these models........

Frank Nuovo seems to fighting back though....... if I could just find out the model number....... :)

Silver Dragon
Jul 21, 2002, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Ovi
I don't think the Apple rep was making things up. He was a real rep by the way. I do agree that it is unlikely he would be prevy to very secret info. However, it does make sense that the next iPod could have that capability. It may not come out for yet one more year. Who really knows ? I don't even think Jobs knows that date.

I could be wrong, and often am. Just don't want you to get your hopes up too high.

No matter how you work it, this Apple employee was in violation of several Apple contracts. The *correct* answer to your question is "I'm not allowed to comment on the speculation of future products." Anything outside of that is a violation of their NDA, even if they are just speculating.

That being said, I have found that any Apple employee who works in retail that says they have insider info typically just reads the boards along with the rest of us. I can't guarantee 100% that this employee had no insider info, but I can go up to 95%.

It's actually really sad when Apple employees make this stuff up and tell it to customers. I witnessed this MANY times at the Apple retail store in which I worked. It does nothing but cripple sales.

-SD

Ovi
Jul 21, 2002, 12:31 PM
1

Cappy
Jul 21, 2002, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by goldmember


Why do you think Windows XP is selling so well, apparently?

Bring on OSXX!!

Actually Windows XP Home Edition is aimed at the Win9x crowd and is a huge improvement for them so it's not just the name or version scheme in this case. It does help though.

King Cobra
Jul 21, 2002, 01:55 PM
Regarding phones...

My father has tried the phones out there and has stuck with Motorola for a while. He says he gets excellent signal and is compact enough for him.

That's from his point of view. I usually don't go near cell phones, except for the one in the house.

I haven't tried Sony Ericson phones, but I am sure that if Apple works with these guys, then they must be excellent phones. :rolleyes:

bking03
Jul 21, 2002, 04:18 PM
PDAs and cell phones simply will not mix. You need enough space to write info, but you want a small phone that will not take up space. Soooo, I think the solution is PANs (Personal Area Networks), with Bluetooth devices.

Ideally I think the best solution would be a 'base' unit/server that goes in yout pocket or bag (face it guys, you need to get a man purse if you don't wanna look like freakin batman), and an expanding lcd programmable device. Something along the lines of a blank screen with speaker and micorphone, which can be switched between pda-type and phone-type functions. And i mean expandable in several dimensions (flip open, slide under, fold out, whatever - but changeable length and width).

So, you would ahve a 80 Gb drive, with wireless connectivity that can be within 20ft. and an lcd that when turned on has a 'device' menu. Tap 'phone', expand lengthwise - viola, a cell phone. Tap 'pda', expand length and width - viola, pda. Mp3 player, etc. I disagree that a camera needs to be built in, esp with the quality of pda cameras today. However, an addon (PCMCIA, MS, CF, SD card) would probably be easy.

What people essentially want is a limited computer with a couple snappy add-ons. It seems like the whole genesis of the computer all over again. Machines were made that did specialized functions, and were then replaced by a machine that could do an unbound number of functions. I think that paradigm is needed for personal technology, BUT technology's backbones are not ready for this, which is why the base unit is needed at all. Sure in the FUTURE future we'll have some omnifunctional-micro-expanding-all-in-one device, but if we have to be realistic and use technology available today, this little paradigm I proposed might be the best bet.

Okay, I'm rambling. :P Hehe, deal.
Brandon:D

doc
Jul 21, 2002, 07:02 PM
there has been a lot of discussion about the 'convergence' of pocket devices into a single device or reduced stress on the pocket stitching.

i now have a nokia 7650 which in all honesty runs circles around my friends sony ericsson equiv not to mention the usefulness of most PDAs that are currently on the market.

it supports SyncML which is the basis of the iSync protocol, is bluetooth enabled, has a built in camera (handy for snapshots but i don't think you will be seeing david bailey using it any time soon), has java (J2ME) midlets support built in and an open API so you can develop your own apps or download from 3rd parties. it's built on the symbianOS (which is the basis of the psion handhelds) has LOTS of extra features which i won't bore you with...

surfice to say, i'm just waiting for my bluetooth adapter to arrive then my mac with be happily communicating with my phone... and i'm so glad it's not an SE!
product details here... (http://www.nokia.com/phones/7650/index.html)

my only complaint is the memory capacity of 4MB. why oh why didn't they install a SD card slot?!?!?! oh well...

one day one of these companies will produce THE PERFECT PRODUCT. and i will be a happy bunny. till then, i feel like a kid waiting for a xmas that never comes. the apple PDA/phone/ÛBER-gadget would be nice but let's face it, they're kinda got their hands full at the moment.

Silver Dragon
Jul 21, 2002, 07:24 PM
Doc, that is a very, very cool phone.

Is it available in the US yet and if so, how much? Will it run on GSM networks such as verizon?

You're right, that's much cooler than my Sony Ericsson T68i!!!

-SD

doc
Jul 21, 2002, 07:42 PM
AFAIK, the 7650 only works on the 900/1800 frequencies which our friends across the pond don't support (1900 freq i think) BUT i may be wrong...

when are you guys going to sort out your networks??? :)

ah i guess when 3G hits town... perhaps then i won't have to rent a motorola every time i come to visit your shores.

<thought> maybe this is what apple are waiting for?</thought>

Silver Dragon
Jul 21, 2002, 09:29 PM
Doc,

I work in television. The FCC screws with *everyone* not just the cell phone companies. I think that when stations are required to go to HDTV and release those frequencies back to the FCC, they will be re-released for the cell phone companies.

To put it simply, anything we have to run through the FCC will turn into the worst XX in the world.

Example: NTSC vs PAL
Example: Cellular phone networks here vs over seas
Example: AM vs AM Stereo (no longer an issue)

We just get screwed over here :( Every freakin' time!

I may be misinformed in many areas here since I only deal on the HDTV side of things, but I feel your pain. I want to moveto Ireland just so I can play with cooler wireless stuff!

Anyhow, how about this. The T68i is the coolest bluetooth phone that the FCC allows whereas the Nokia 7650 is the coolest phone overall... That work for everyone?

-SD

Cappy
Jul 21, 2002, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by bking03
PDAs and cell phones simply will not mix. You need enough space to write info, but you want a small phone that will not take up space. Soooo, I think the solution is PANs (Personal Area Networks), with Bluetooth devices.

Why do you need to write for a pda? The winner is going to be the first wireless service that uses their system to handle voice recognition and convert what is said into the data for calendar, address, and small reminder functions. A small lcd screen will naturally be required but most if not all input will be by voice. If someone demands something where they can write, well, then they're going to have to go with a larger device whether it be phone, pad, or whatever.

I don't see this technology being that far off. It's just the costs involved and someone just needs to do it. I haven't heard of anyone developing such a system yet.

This is where I think people have computers and pda's bass ackwards. People are trying to move computers to be more dumb terminal like when it does not make sense to do so in most situations. For the pda everyone is looking for a the holy grail in making it be a portable computer that can do nearly everything. It should be the opposite until we at least enter a more Star Trek world a few decades from now. Wireless needs a little more bandwidth for the cell phone/pda and voice recognition and you'll see sales skyrocket beyond what the computers during the internet heyday did.

Silver Dragon
Jul 21, 2002, 09:36 PM
You mean voice input for your PDA so it converts your voice to text?

Try the Newton 2000/2100 with Dragon naturally speaking PKG installed. They stopped development of it before it could really grow though. Apple killed what could have been the best PDA/Mini computer/Life organizer in the world.

Isn't Steve Jobs ego nice?

-SD

SilvorX
Jul 21, 2002, 10:30 PM
instead of dreaming of an apple pda, dream of a g5 or 1.5 ghz processors ;) lol

Silver Dragon
Jul 21, 2002, 10:33 PM
Silvor, uh, read my sig :)

bking03
Jul 21, 2002, 11:53 PM
Originally posted by Cappy


Why do you need to write for a pda? The winner is going to be the first wireless service that uses their system to handle voice recognition and convert what is said into the data for calendar, address, and small reminder functions. A small lcd screen will naturally be required but most if not all input will be by voice. If someone demands something where they can write, well, then they're going to have to go with a larger device whether it be phone, pad, or whatever.

I don't see this technology being that far off. It's just the costs involved and someone just needs to do it. I haven't heard of anyone developing such a system yet.

This is where I think people have computers and pda's bass ackwards. People are trying to move computers to be more dumb terminal like when it does not make sense to do so in most situations. For the pda everyone is looking for a the holy grail in making it be a portable computer that can do nearly everything. It should be the opposite until we at least enter a more Star Trek world a few decades from now. Wireless needs a little more bandwidth for the cell phone/pda and voice recognition and you'll see sales skyrocket beyond what the computers during the internet heyday did.

I totally disagree. No one cares to look 'ridiculous' talking to themselves while walking down the street. No one wants to have something sticking in their ear or in their face every time they want to see when the next meeting is. Voice recognition is for cell phones or for people that actually have their hands full during their work (technicians, etc.). It has JUST become acceptable by non-techies to use an ear bud for talking on a cell phone. Remember this is being marketted to the masses, and there are certain faux pas that will not be looked apon favorably.

B

LethalWolfe
Jul 22, 2002, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by Cappy


Why do you need to write for a pda? The winner is going to be the first wireless service that uses their system to handle voice recognition and convert what is said into the data for calendar, address, and small reminder functions. A small lcd screen will naturally be required but most if not all input will be by voice. If someone demands something where they can write, well, then they're going to have to go with a larger device whether it be phone, pad, or whatever.


I can see it now. A boardroom or convention hall filled w/people all chattering away on their voice-only PDAs 'cause they have no way to silently jot down notes or adjust their schedule. :D

I think we'll always have "manual" input until voice recognition enters the "Star Trek" world where the computer can always understand exactly what you are saying no matter what.


Lethal

Cappy
Jul 22, 2002, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe


I can see it now. A boardroom or convention hall filled w/people all chattering away on their voice-only PDAs 'cause they have no way to silently jot down notes or adjust their schedule. :D

I think we'll always have "manual" input until voice recognition enters the "Star Trek" world where the computer can always understand exactly what you are saying no matter what.


Lethal

hehe...that would be funny but you're taking things to literal. Memo, calendar, and associated functions are going to find themselves in multiple devices(been in desktop and laptop computers for years). A small pda that fits in the pocket is horrible for collecting notes which in many times a pad of paper is needed for meetings to take notes. Thus a Newton like device that's thinner, lighter, and more convenient would be appropriate for such manual input. It's the old saying "the right tool for the right job".

As for people thinking that they're talking to themselves in the streets, it would require a user friendly version of voice recognition. Essentially an electronic secretary. Yes, it would take some getting used to but it wouldn't be much different than calling up a real secretary and asking her/him to schedule an appt or take a quick note.

What I'm proposing is going completely electronic for the most part on multiple fronts. Just like there are multiple sizes of notebooks and paper so there would be various devices for different jobs. The awe-inspiring all in one device is never going to happen unless we start tapping into brainwaves. That's just the way it is. The thing is that no one will probably truly see this come to realization until 5-10 years from now. AI might need that time to develop enough while the consumers and developers sort things out on what people really need/want.

dernhelm
Jul 23, 2002, 07:31 AM
I agree that Jobs won't build a PDA, but I bet Apple does build a post-PDA combination device that extends from the IPod. It's sure to include a phone, which is cool. I'm kind of looking forward to dialing with a wheel again...

synergy
Jul 23, 2002, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by dernhelm
I agree that Jobs won't build a PDA, but I bet Apple does build a post-PDA combination device that extends from the IPod. It's sure to include a phone, which is cool. I'm kind of looking forward to dialing with a wheel again...

Why would it include a phone?
A phone with bluetooth could talk to the device without the need to remove the phone from your pocket.

Apple is not in the phone game and they don't want to be.

Silver Dragon
Jul 28, 2002, 12:02 PM
Ok, I now understand why Jobs will not build a PDA. Check out the Sony Ericsson P800.

It's kinda like the Nokia 7650, but it looks nicer, has a bigger/better screen, will actually work in the US (yeah!), and has bluetooth (I think the 7650 has bluetooth too, but I can't remember). The point is that you can do all of your contacts, e-mail, calendar, basic notes, digital camera work on one device. Why bring two or three devices when it will all work on one!?!

Apple does not want to get into the cell phone business... The PDA will turn into a cell phone... So I now understand why Apple does not want to do this. I still say that the Newton is the most powerful PDA ever built and Apple should not have slashed Newton Inc., but at least I understand the logic.

Anyhow, just my $0.02... Thought someone might care :)

-SD

Cappy
Jul 28, 2002, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by dernhelm
I agree that Jobs won't build a PDA, but I bet Apple does build a post-PDA combination device that extends from the IPod. It's sure to include a phone, which is cool. I'm kind of looking forward to dialing with a wheel again...

The idea of what a pda is will change over the course of the next few years. The ipod is already beginning to fall into that category just because with the contacts feature, it really is something of a personal digital assistant.

I'm not so sure that a phone will become a part of it but there is certainly a chance for pager and wireless functions to be implemented into it down the road. I'd be happy to just see some lightweight wireless headphones for it.

Joshlew
Jul 28, 2002, 03:59 PM
It would be great if Apple made a mobile phone.....

. It would sync with the address book in v10.2.......

. It would have a colour screen.........

. It would be cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

jaykk
Jul 28, 2002, 04:06 PM
i don't get it - if there is no money to be made in PDA, why is the largest PC company making its own PDA?

read the full story here
Dell branded PDA (http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/020726/200207261404000536_1.html)

Cappy
Jul 28, 2002, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by jaykk
i don't get it - if there is no money to be made in PDA, why is the largest PC company making its own PDA?

read the full story here
Dell branded PDA (http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/020726/200207261404000536_1.html)

Dell is working more on undercutting companies now and getting control of markets so that when the economy takes off, they can be centerstage to dictate things. I know many folks around here despise Dell and their systems but they really do know what they're doing and do make some pretty decent computers compared to the rest of the industry clones.

skunk
Jul 29, 2002, 08:12 AM
All the iPod needs for real PDA functionality is a method of entering data directly, and possibly a calculator function, surely not too hard to do with the inkwell/trackpad idea we've been hearing about. A camera option like the P800 would be a nice touch, and would only cost another $10 or so to implement, judging by the Espion camera.