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MacRumors
Nov 10, 2009, 10:53 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/11/10/mobilenavigator-north-america-adds-live-traffic-as-in-app-purchase/)

Navigon's popular turn-by-turn GPS iPhone application MobileNavigator North America [App Store (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mobilenavigator-north-america/id321506742?mt=8), $89.99] has been updated to offer live traffic information in the U.S. and Canada. The new addition, known as Navigon Traffic Live, is available via In App Purchasing for an additional one-time $19.99 fee.

News of the addition first surfaced (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/09/16/navigon-to-add-live-traffic-data-as-in-app-purchase-for-mobilenavigator/) in mid-September at which time it was noted that the $19.99 fee for live traffic would be a promotional price for the first four weeks of availability, with the price increasing to $24.99 after that time. The feature had been scheduled for an October launch, and made its first appearance in country-specific European application versions at the very end of the month. The feature was added to the company's broader MobileNavigator Europe iPhone application last week before coming to the U.S. and Canada yesterday.

Other minor changes available in the MobileNavigator North America update include extended searching of map areas once a destination has been entered and the ability to launch the application directly in landscape orientation.

Article Link: 'MobileNavigator North America' Adds Live Traffic as In App Purchase (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2009/11/10/mobilenavigator-north-america-adds-live-traffic-as-in-app-purchase/)



Chaos123x
Nov 10, 2009, 11:08 AM
Gack you gotta pay for this update?

Thats kinda lame, I wonder if it comes with App when you buy it new.


I still have not bought a GPS app yet, was a toss up between this and TomTom, but now that Google is making a free GPS app I am not so sure.

Gav2k
Nov 10, 2009, 11:27 AM
Gack you gotta pay for this update?

Thats kinda lame, I wonder if it comes with App when you buy it new.


I still have not bought a GPS app yet, was a toss up between this and TomTom, but now that Google is making a free GPS app I am not so sure.

No u download the app then from within the app you download the traffic update. 19.99 is a really good price concidering it's one off and tomtom have said there's will be a yearly purchase!

RoarinRow
Nov 10, 2009, 11:37 AM
I downloaded the latest version last night v.1.3.0. It look over an hour to download and install the 1.5GB package.

I tested the Navigon on the way to work today. It's definitely pretty cool. I was expecting a little more. I guess I might be spoiled with my existing Garmin Nuvi 660 stand alone GPS.

GPS reception was good. The Navigon switched back and forth from my iPod music to a phone call I received and other pop ups from my calendar. When I turned before its recommendation it quickly re-routed me within 2 seconds.

The speed reminder was pretty cool. I haven't used the Live Traffic yet. I didn't realize you had to purchase it within the Navigon application. It's installed now. I'll test it on the way home.

I do miss the next street turn that is automatically displayed on my 660. In order to know when you are going to turn next, you have to touch the directional arrow on the iPhone. Then it will repeat what the next turn is.

Sharlston Cat
Nov 10, 2009, 11:38 AM
"The feature had been scheduled for an October launch, and made its first appearance in country-specific European application versions at the very end of the month."

I'm confused, i updated my British Isles version to 1.3 when it came out and got the post code update through extras but live traffic is not listed?

Does any one know when its released in the UK?

jb510
Nov 10, 2009, 12:19 PM
Any word if 1.3 fixes the podcasts not appearing bug?

I've been "demoing" the app via illicit means for 3 weeks... too bad there is no real App Store trial... anyway... Very happy I didn't pay for it because of the podcasts not showing up. I was just about to delete it and try something else, but maybe I'd give 1.3 a shot if it fixes the podcast bug.

Littleman
Nov 10, 2009, 12:35 PM
"The feature had been scheduled for an October launch, and made its first appearance in country-specific European application versions at the very end of the month."

I'm confused, i updated my British Isles version to 1.3 when it came out and got the post code update through extras but live traffic is not listed?

Does any one know when its released in the UK?

+1
Really want this feature, but all i can get is the post code thing :mad:

macduke
Nov 10, 2009, 02:42 PM
After Google Maps Navigation ships with iPhone OS 4.0, expect these Tom Tom and Navigon apps to get a whole lot cheaper. Their only advantage will be stored maps. But from Engadget's review:

The biggest worry here is that if you lose signal you won't be able to pull maps, but while there's no whole-map caching, it does cache a route when you enter it in, so as long as you don't stray too far from the beaten path you should be fine with a dropped signal here or there.

eugarps
Nov 10, 2009, 03:22 PM
My experience with Navigon has not been all that good. It keeps losing the GPS signal. No, it's not the phone, because Google Maps found me even inside a building. I'll be under an open sky in an area of low buildings and the red GPS warning will pop up. This happened most recently on the Capitol Beltway around DC in my Tundra pickup.

It's kind of a pain, because I don't have nav built into that vehicle. I'm shopping for a Delorme PN-40 now. The problem will be solved with that. Had I known Navigon would be unreliable in my truck, I'd have saved to money and put it toward the PN-40.

My experience, YMMV.

Bill

DotComCTO
Nov 10, 2009, 04:08 PM
Navigon has worked 99.99% for me. I did have an issue in NYC where I was between many tall buildings on a narrow street. Other than that, it has worked perfectly for me.

The new update is pretty darn good. I paid the extra $19.99 for in-app traffic. There was no traffic to speak of this morning, so we'll see how it goes tonight. I have checked out the traffic just looking at the map and scrolling through the text list of traffic. It seems to be pretty close to what Google shows in their app.

Worth the wait.

I'm wondering why TomTom hasn't really advanced their app yet - just a relatively minor set of enhancements about a month ago. They're letting the competition own the market. Very strange.

--DotComCTO

hawkeye23
Nov 11, 2009, 08:25 AM
After Google Maps Navigation ships with iPhone OS 4.0, expect these Tom Tom and Navigon apps to get a whole lot cheaper. Their only advantage will be stored maps. But from Engadget's review:

Why does everyone assume Google will be better then all of the other GPS applications?

temetrepo
Nov 11, 2009, 08:29 AM
i guess because its FREE:rolleyes:

VenusianSky
Nov 11, 2009, 10:14 AM
I don't expect anything from Tom Tom to get whole lot cheaper.:rolleyes:

I installed this update last night. Still contemplating on whether to go for the traffic update.

wclyffe
Nov 11, 2009, 12:15 PM
I don't expect anything from Tom Tom to get whole lot cheaper.:rolleyes:

I installed this update last night. Still contemplating on whether to go for the traffic update.

Do it...its fabulous!! In LA, it has given me re-routing choices based on traffic slow downs and accidents that are fantastic. Very cool for $20 as a one time charge!

trainguy77
Nov 11, 2009, 01:24 PM
My experience with Navigon has not been all that good. It keeps losing the GPS signal. No, it's not the phone, because Google Maps found me even inside a building. I'll be under an open sky in an area of low buildings and the red GPS warning will pop up. This happened most recently on the Capitol Beltway around DC in my Tundra pickup.

It's kind of a pain, because I don't have nav built into that vehicle. I'm shopping for a Delorme PN-40 now. The problem will be solved with that. Had I known Navigon would be unreliable in my truck, I'd have saved to money and put it toward the PN-40.

My experience, YMMV.

Bill

Are you sure your phone is getting a GPS lock in google maps and not a AGPS lock?

Basically when you think you have a lock in maps is the blue dot pulsing or is it just the dot with a circle around it? If its pulsing it has a GPS lock if not your using AGPS. navigon requires a GPS lock.

The other things to check is if you have a case on it. I find some hard shelled cases interfere with reception.

Last but not least when you try using it do you put the phone up on your dash?

curly14
Nov 11, 2009, 04:51 PM
Do it...its fabulous!! In LA, it has given me re-routing choices based on traffic slow downs and accidents that are fantastic. Very cool for $20 as a one time charge!

I downloaded a few days ago been tinkering with it but have yet to have it give me a new route due to traffic congestion partly is I go with the flow of traffic(work/home) here in so cal but you never know when traffic pops up. I have traffic information set to > automatically is this what you have yours set to? also in type of route is set to > optimum

I noticed that the voice is cutting out and not pronouncing the whole freeway name or street anyone else having this happen

blueprint1983
Nov 11, 2009, 08:44 PM
I downloaded a few days ago been tinkering with it but have yet to have it give me a new route due to traffic congestion partly is I go with the flow of traffic(work/home) here in so cal but you never know when traffic pops up. I have traffic information set to > automatically is this what you have yours set to? also in type of route is set to > optimum

I noticed that the voice is cutting out and not pronouncing the whole freeway name or street anyone else having this happen

yeah, Navigon is sometimes frustratingly slow or has hiccups with the original 3G, especially slow when it's also controlling the ipod app.

bilboa
Nov 11, 2009, 09:43 PM
My experience with Navigon has not been all that good. It keeps losing the GPS signal. No, it's not the phone, because Google Maps found me even inside a building. I'll be under an open sky in an area of low buildings and the red GPS warning will pop up. This happened most recently on the Capitol Beltway around DC in my Tundra pickup.


The poor GPS reception is because of the iPhone hardware, not the Navigon software. To understand why the builtin Maps app will still show your location when Navigon, or other GPS apps for that matter, won't, you need to know a little about how the iPhone's Core Location service works. Basically though, the Maps app will try to show your location even when the phone isn't getting a good, or any, GPS signal, whereas Navigon prefers to not use the location information unless it's accurate, at least as reported by the phone. By the way, you'll find that all the other turn-by-turn iPhone applications do the same thing. The amount of accuracy required for turn-by-turn navigation is much higher than what people would expect from the Maps app, so they figure it's better to just tell you there isn't a good signal than to show you the wrong location information.

In more detail: The iPhone's Core Location API will try to report a location even when the iPhone can't get a good GPS signal. In that case it will use cell tower and/or IP address information to estimate where you are. This can often be fairly accurate, but not nearly as accurate as GPS. The Core Location (CL) API reports, in addition to location information, how accurate it thinks the location information is. When the phone is getting an actual GPS signal then the indicated accuracy will be much higher. The Maps app will always show you the location CL reports, even when the accuracy is low, though it visually indicates when the accuracy is low by showing a circle around the dot. Turn-by-turn apps like Navigon will simply not use the location information unless the accuracy reported by CL is above a certain threshold.

trainguy77
Nov 11, 2009, 11:46 PM
In that case it will use cell tower and/or IP address information to estimate where you are.

Common misconception. It doesn't use IP addresses this is how it works:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/coverage.php

Its a database of known wifi connections. You don't need to be connected to the wifi (therefore no IP) to be able to determine the location.

proguho
Nov 12, 2009, 01:27 AM
Glad to hear you're using this: I plan to keep it much more aggressively up-to-date than has been the case in the past, but don't hesitate to let me know if you find errors or need clarifications.:(:o

bilboa
Nov 12, 2009, 11:03 AM
Common misconception. It doesn't use IP addresses this is how it works:
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/coverage.php

Its a database of known wifi connections. You don't need to be connected to the wifi (therefore no IP) to be able to determine the location.

Interesting! I didn't know exactly how that worked. Is it known for a fact that Apple uses Skyhook data for its Core Location framework?

In any case, in the context of this discussion the exact way it works isn't relevant. The point is that wifi/cell-tower based location service is not as accurate as GPS, which is why turn-by-turn apps won't use it. I do sometimes wish that Navigon would show me a location even when it doesn't have an accurate location, and just indicate that the accuracy is low like the Maps app does, rather than no location.

trainguy77
Nov 12, 2009, 05:55 PM
Interesting! I didn't know exactly how that worked. Is it known for a fact that Apple uses Skyhook data for its Core Location framework?

In any case, in the context of this discussion the exact way it works isn't relevant. The point is that wifi/cell-tower based location service is not as accurate as GPS, which is why turn-by-turn apps won't use it. I do sometimes wish that Navigon would show me a location even when it doesn't have an accurate location, and just indicate that the accuracy is low like the Maps app does, rather than no location.

http://www.skyhookwireless.com/inaction/

And yeah I agree sometimes I wish navigon would go into a different view or something if it doesn't have GPS access.

idkew
Nov 13, 2009, 08:40 AM
Does anyone know if this is device-specific, or account-specific?

I have navigon on two iPhones and will purchase the traffic if it works on both phones for $20.

newkidonthebloc
Nov 13, 2009, 09:13 AM
Just bought mobilenavigator yesterday and it works PERFECTLY!! It was able to get a GPS lock in less than 2 seconds everytime. Thinking of getting live traffic now. Is it good? For some reason the price shows as 19.99 euros. Did anyone else see that?

ticman
Nov 18, 2009, 03:19 PM
I would like to hear a little more about how the Live Traffic works--not the scientific "why" but what you see or should see on the screen and how it recommends or automatically re routes you.

thanks,

dagomike
Nov 18, 2009, 03:32 PM
Basically on the map you'll see alert icons, and color indicators for traffic. One of my big gripes on NAVIGON is you can't interact with the map, but after you dance through some menus you can eventually get more info about the traffic issue. You can also see a list of traffic issues in your area, or along a planned route in list form.

If you plan a route that's affected by a traffic issue, it will route around it. I haven't encountered a traffic problem coming up in-route and whether it will reroute on the fly or not.

I'm working on a video showing some of this.

Jape
Nov 18, 2009, 03:51 PM
Basically on the map you'll see alert icons, and color indicators for traffic. One of my big gripes on NAVIGON is you can't interact with the map, but after you dance through some menus you can eventually get more info about the traffic issue. You can also see a list of traffic issues in your area, or along a planned route in list form.

If you plan a route that's affected by a traffic issue, it will route around it. I haven't encountered a traffic problem coming up in-route and whether it will reroute on the fly or not.

I'm working on a video showing some of this.

I've been rerouted on the fly before... :)

dagomike
Nov 18, 2009, 04:02 PM
I've been rerouted on the fly before... :)
You're talking with the NAVIGON traffic? If so, cool...

Jape
Nov 18, 2009, 04:18 PM
You're talking with the NAVIGON traffic? If so, cool...

Yep i am.... my only qualm with the application is poor documentation, and I wish the car (traffic) icon showed up all the time.

DrewG5
Nov 18, 2009, 04:57 PM
So far I have been very happy with the traffic setup. Even shows closed roads in my area. That is rather handy for me as the TomTom I had was not that good with the traffic

dagomike
Nov 18, 2009, 08:12 PM
Yep i am.... my only qualm with the application is poor documentation, and I wish the car (traffic) icon showed up all the time.

That would be very nice. Otherwise, if you want to see traffic alerts not on your route, you have to go digging through menus. It would be even nicer if I could select traffic alert icons directly on the map.

ticman
Nov 19, 2009, 07:31 AM
Thanks all for the information.

I agree re poor documentation on how to use or what to expect.

I accidently noticed the 3 little car type pictures in the upper left of the screen and clicked on it to find the traffic issues in the area. It gave information of type of problem but that was it.

I had expected that if I were in route it would automatically pop up showing the issue and show if you were being rerouted.

LOL I guess I need to go in search of a traffic problem and establish a route and see what happens.

RoarinRow
Nov 19, 2009, 12:18 PM
I used the Live Traffic yesterday on my hour trip during rush hour. The traffic notification was pretty accurate. The Live Traffic recommendation changed color from black to red and showed the distance in miles on when I would be approaching that traffic.

As soon as it showed 0 miles I could either see the traffic ahead of me or I was in the midst of the slow down. I was very impressed with the accuracy.

bilboa
Nov 19, 2009, 12:33 PM
In Navigon, if you enable the automatic traffic rerouting, then if there's traffic, Navigon will say "Recalculating route due to traffic" or something similar, and then it changes your route. This happens on the fly as you're driving. I've found it to be pretty useful a couple of times.

Of course it's only going to be as accurate as the traffic data they're buying. Navigon isn't creating the data, they're just buying it, so it may be more accurate and up-to-date in some areas and times than others. I can vouch for it working well in the Boston area during the daytime.

newkidonthebloc
Nov 19, 2009, 12:55 PM
Navigon and live traffic work great for me. I live in the NYC area and have regular commute on I-495. Navigon has been able to always re-route to roads with less traffic. And I never lose the GPS lock unless inside a tunnel. Love this thing!! :)

dagomike
Nov 19, 2009, 03:15 PM
Here's a video on 1.3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVjTtAHHKiM

malch
Nov 19, 2009, 03:47 PM
trainguy and bilboa - - I have an iPhone 3G. Would Navigon, used with the TomTom cradle (for a GPS-reception boost) be the best bet for me?
thanks, malch

bilboa
Nov 19, 2009, 04:13 PM
trainguy and bilboa - - I have an iPhone 3G. Would Navigon, used with the TomTom cradle (for a GPS-reception boost) be the best bet for me?
thanks, malch

Navigon worked great for me on my 3G.

As far as I know though, no GPS programs other than TomTom will currently take advantage of the GPS chip in the TomTom cradle. I personally have found the iPhone's builtin GPS to be adequate, but YMMV.

m3coolpix
Nov 19, 2009, 04:50 PM
trainguy and bilboa - - I have an iPhone 3G. Would Navigon, used with the TomTom cradle (for a GPS-reception boost) be the best bet for me?
thanks, malch

Will jump in here on this....

My dad has my 1.5 year old 3G 16gb iPhone, and it works 99% of the time with no signal acquisition issues. He lives in south Louisiana, so there's not a whole lot of 'downtown' big building and/or obstructed sky driving. Has been using Navigon since early July.

I will say that he's never seen a traffic update in any of the Louisiana cities so far....good thing he got it added for free (as we all share an iTunes account username/password).

Traffic has worked quite well around the big city areas of Texas. Still doesn't beat listening to a local news radio station that updates traffic every 10 minutes, from 5am to 7pm every day (except weekends) though.

dagomike
Nov 19, 2009, 05:48 PM
The TomTom kit appears to provide GPS to all GPS apps I have.

Diode
Nov 19, 2009, 06:08 PM
I was reading a earlier press release about Navigon Traffic and it stated:

The Traffic Live feature will poll one million cars and trucks across the United States, comparing their speeds against the expected speed for a stretch of roadway. If the actual speeds are slower than expected, the Navigon app will direct other drivers to an alternate route. Other sensors, such as traffic cameras, speed sensors and conventional traffic messages, are also used.

Is this true with the current feature? I don't see them claiming this in the current release notes.

malch
Nov 19, 2009, 06:37 PM
As far as I know though, no GPS programs other than TomTom will currently take advantage of the GPS chip in the TomTom cradle

The TomTom kit appears to provide GPS to all GPS apps I have.

This is what I'd love to have corroborated, one way or the other. Does anyone know for sure: does the TomTom kit boost the GPS reception of other apps (eg., Navigon)?
thanks again for your help,
malch

tstreete
Nov 19, 2009, 06:48 PM
I think Google maps defaults to a less detailed level because it's not designed for driving, and does not automatically notify you when it is not getting a gps signal and is instead using cell phone tower triangulation. So, for example, it's willing to guess your location within a, say, 300 foot radius. If you're not moving, that's often all you need. But the car navigation apps quite rightly demand a lot more accuracy, because they need to be able to tell you exactly when to turn, not where the nearest starbuck's is. I think that's why folks often experience Navigon or TomTom not working when google maps does. Can't be sure that's what's causing your experience, but it might be.

My experience with Navigon has not been all that good. It keeps losing the GPS signal. No, it's not the phone, because Google Maps found me even inside a building. I'll be under an open sky in an area of low buildings and the red GPS warning will pop up. This happened most recently on the Capitol Beltway around DC in my Tundra pickup.

It's kind of a pain, because I don't have nav built into that vehicle. I'm shopping for a Delorme PN-40 now. The problem will be solved with that. Had I known Navigon would be unreliable in my truck, I'd have saved to money and put it toward the PN-40.

My experience, YMMV.

Bill

tstreete
Nov 19, 2009, 06:57 PM
This is what I'd love to have corroborated, one way or the other. Does anyone know for sure: does the TomTom kit boost the GPS reception of other apps (eg., Navigon)?
thanks again for your help,
malch

The TomTom car kit's enhanced gps apps works for any gps-using iPhone app. TomTom's website says so, everyone who's tested it says so (check youtube), and it has improved the signal for me using G-Map East, GPS-Drive, and Google Maps. MotionX GPS LTE (a free app) gives you a radius of accuracy in feet, and connected to the car kit, it reports an accuracy to within 30-50 feet, whereas I never got an accuracy without the kit of better than about 75 feet, and frequently had an accuracy of only within 125 feet or worse.

Nav apps are often carefully "tuned" to improve on the chip's signal's accuracy by anticipating your location from the direction you are going in, the location of streets, and so forth. Other apps might not be as well tuned for the car kit as TomTom's (I suspect that 's the case with GPS-Drive, which a couple of times has gotten a bit wonky while using the car kit.) But when the iPhone's docked in the car kit, it gets it's gps info from the kit regardless of app.

malch
Nov 19, 2009, 10:46 PM
The TomTom car kit's enhanced gps apps works for any gps-using iPhone app

thanks very much for this. I can now safely get Navigon (which most people seem to me to prefer), but with the TomTom car kit (for better reception).
Cheers, malch

tknelson
Nov 20, 2009, 07:21 AM
The TomTom car kit's enhanced gps apps works for any gps-using iPhone app. TomTom's website says so,

Link, please?

dagomike
Nov 20, 2009, 08:09 AM
This is what I'd love to have corroborated, one way or the other. Does anyone know for sure: does the TomTom kit boost the GPS reception of other apps (eg., Navigon)?
thanks again for your help,
malch

I said it somewhere else around here. I put my phone in airplane mode and get no GPS reception. Plug the car kit in, and I get reception. Did it on NAVIGON, G-Map, CoPilot, TomTom, TomTom's kit utility.

Like tstreete said, TomTom says so, so does everyone who actually has the kit and apps.

bilboa
Nov 20, 2009, 09:56 AM
I said it somewhere else around here. I put my phone in airplane mode and get no GPS reception. Plug the car kit in, and I get reception. Did it on NAVIGON, G-Map, CoPilot, TomTom, TomTom's kit utility.

Like tstreete said, TomTom says so, so does everyone who actually has the kit and apps.

Do you have a link to where TomTom says so? I'm not saying it isn't true, but I couldn't find it on their website. Here is a link to the car kit:
http://www.tomtom.com/products/product.php?ID=1019&Category=2&Lid=4
I don't see anything in the product description which says it will work with other Nav programs. Thank you.

dagomike
Nov 20, 2009, 10:42 AM
Do you have a link to where TomTom says so? I'm not saying it isn't true, but I couldn't find it on their website. Here is a link to the car kit:
http://www.tomtom.com/products/product.php?ID=1019&Category=2&Lid=4
I don't see anything in the product description which says it will work with other Nav programs. Thank you.

I don't know. I just remember reading it. When I do the review on the kit, I may demo the airplane mode thing in the car.