retardation...its a wonder people like this can drive

[virividox]

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-RTO-reodd&idq=/ff/story/0002%2F20040730%2F1007227261.htm&sc=reodd

stupid truck driver

[iGav]

It's not as bad as that chap in Italy who decided to shoot a driver who had laughed as he overtook him... :rolleyes:

Nutters! :rolleyes:

[evil]

i thought it was going to be a thread about people that talk on their cell/smoke/read/put on makeup when they drive.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Not like me facing be shot at for going 5 mph over the speed limit on our Intestates in the DC area (and this being in the two or three right hand lanes of four).

[Kingsnapped]

Pretty much the only time I do the exact speed limit, is when somebody comes up behind me at way over the speed limit, then tailgates me. It's pretty fun to do 35 on my big long country road after the ricer dude behind me blows the stop-sign just to see how fast he can go.

A guy that lives down the street from me almost ran down my mom and my dog, because he was racing on my road. I figure it's the least I can do.

[comictimes]

i thought it was going to be a thread about people that talk on their cell/smoke/read/put on makeup when they drive.

A year or so ago my dad and I saw some woman reading a full length book while going on the freeway at about 60mph, and as she was about to enter a fairly narrow tunnel. It was so creepy...

[Chip NoVaMac]

Pretty much the only time I do the exact speed limit, is when somebody comes up behind me at way over the speed limit, then tailgates me. It's pretty fun to do 35 on my big long country road after the ricer dude behind me blows the stop-sign just to see how fast he can go.

A guy that lives down the street from me almost ran down my mom and my dog, because he was racing on my road. I figure it's the least I can do.

The thing is that this sort of behavior can get you shot in many urban areas. And IMO only because the budgets for police have been trimmed to the barest levels. In Fairfax County the elected officials have pointed readily that we have the lowest crime rate of many counties. Even though that they fund other things that have stripped the Police over the last 10 years by 20 to 30% in their resources.

Just imagine how much safer we could be that there was a national standard as to the number of peace officers per a thousand. The law breakers (speeder, red light runners, and many others) will hate this. We have allowed law breakers the ability to to have they freedom to do what they want.

[Kingsnapped]

The thing is that this sort of behavior can get you shot in many urban areas. ::snip::.

That's why I limit my law-abiding speed to Creamery road, in front of people that go to my school and not scary downtown Green Bay.

[kylos]

I'm in Fairfax county for several months, chip, and the traffic here is amazing (at least from a michiganians perspective :)). I never realized just how much traffic you could have at six in the morning or even any time of the day. And the roads here don't go anywhere in particular. They make no sense. Haven't you people ever heard of placing roads on a grid?!? :D

[Chip NoVaMac]

I'm in Fairfax county for several months, chip, and the traffic here is amazing (at least from a michiganians perspective :)). I never realized just how much traffic you could have at six in the morning or even any time of the day. And the roads here don't go anywhere in particular. They make no sense. Haven't you people ever heard of placing roads on a grid?!? :D

They shouldhave put you over in Montgomery County in MD, the traffic starts buikld there at 5AM, or in Prince William or Frederick County Virginia. They also start at 5AM.

[virividox]

nothing compares to manila gridlock!!! here the speed limit is almost never reached because its always a crawl

[Abstract]

In Toronto, people drive the speed limit, or maybe 5 to 10 km/h (around 3 to 6 mph) over the limit during the morning hours. I don't. I go around 9 mph over the limit and I stick out like a sore thumb. C'mon, its not THAT fast. On Yonge Street, there are some parts of it that should be at a much higher speed limit, but it's kept low. In the middle of the day, the speeders come out. They don't speed well over the limit, but they'll go a decent speed. Everyone does. Its almost like people only realize how slow the limits are in the afternoon.

[Chip NoVaMac]

In Toronto, people drive the speed limit, or maybe 5 to 10 km/h (around 3 to 6 mph) over the limit during the morning hours. I don't. I go around 9 mph over the limit and I stick out like a sore thumb. C'mon, its not THAT fast. On Yonge Street, there are some parts of it that should be at a much higher speed limit, but it's kept low. In the middle of the day, the speeders come out. They don't speed well over the limit, but they'll go a decent speed. Everyone does. Its almost like people only realize how slow the limits are in the afternoon.

It is not that it is that much faster than allowed. It about respect for the law, and what society expects. not pegging you alone, but that attitude allows for it to creep into other areas that it matters. Breaking the law, is breaking the law.

[kerb]

do any of you lot have GATSO cameras?


ie. speed cameras at random parts of the road which take a digital image when you speed, then a few days later you get a fine through the post.

[Chip NoVaMac]

do any of you lot have GATSO cameras?


ie. speed cameras at random parts of the road which take a digital image when you speed, then a few days later you get a fine through the post.

We have something like that in DC proper. It is a crock IMO, since the roads they choose you take your life in your hands if you do less than 10mph over the limit. they never use them on what I call marginal roads where it might work to slow down the drivers.

[zyuzin4]

The City of San Jose started its full time NASCOP in November, 1998. This program is designed to address residents' speeding and safety concerns on local neighborhood streets, and to complement regular police enforcement.

NASCOP is used on local neighborhood streets, with a 25-30 m.p.h. speed limit. A staff person uses a parked van containing a speed-sensing radar unit, and two cameras. The radar unit triggers the cameras to take pictures of the front and back of any vehicle driving faster than a predetermined amount over the speed limit. The registered owner of the vehicle, identified through their license plate numbers, receives a notice in the mail. The notice instructs the owner how to make an appointment to come in to the Department of Transportation Office to view and identify the pictures or how to respond by mail. Speeding citations may be issued as a result of the appointment or mail responses. If owners choose to ignore the notice or fail to appear for their appointments, citations may still be issued by staff checking the speeding photos against driver's license photos.

This program works best in neighborhoods where there has been a chronic speeding problem, not remedied through other efforts. NASCOP will not be used where residents have not previously contacted the Police Department for speed enforcement. In order for the program to be successful, it must be requested and supported by the majority of residents within a neighborhood through a petition, as it will primarily be neighborhood residents who may receive citations through this program.

Signs identifying the neighborhood as a photo-radar zone will be posted prior to enforcement at neighborhood perimeters, and/or the streets being enforced. This is to ensure that the program is not hidden, but visible. The idea is to slow traffic, not issue citations. Each selected area will receive regular, random enforcement.


I frequently use two streets that have the warning "Speed Enforced by Photo Radar" sign. I have only seen the camera vans about 4 times since 2001 but it does make me slow down a bit on those roads unless I can tell there is no van parked on the side.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I will say that when I arrived in the DFW area, was the attention to school zones. I was surprised when I saw people slowing down to 10mph at schools even without police in attendance.

They never could be sure where the police were. God love Texas.

[kylos]

Speaking of cameras and radar used for ticketing, Herndon, Va has an ingenious (albeit aggravating) method of keeping the speed down. Just today I noticed probably 4 or 5 lights that would change to red if you were caught speeding in before the light. These stinkin' virginians. :D

[wdlove]

Road rage seems to have become a real problem world wide. It's the violence that is uncalled for in these incidences.

[evil]

Road rage seems to have become a real problem world wide. It's the violence that is uncalled for in these incidences.
actually. you could blame the terrible driving that is also uncalled for that sets the violence off. i dont condone violence, but seriously people should learn to drive better.

[Nermal]

The trucker got in a fight with a car driver who had been slowing him down by observing a 30 km-an-hour (18 mph) speed limit in a built-up area.

That's so slow! The slowest limit we have here is 50. I couldn't imagine driving at 30 :eek:

[MongoTheGeek]

That's so slow! The slowest limit we have here is 50. I couldn't imagine driving at 30 :eek:

I know. Here in the US. You don't see speed limits that low except in parking lots maybe rounding a rather wicked curve on a mountain road even then its the yellow speed limit signs.

Maybe in school zones.

[takao]

30 km/h is pretty normal on some smaller streets inside of towns ("30er-Zone") for the ones with more traffic it is normally 50km/h or for the big ones up to 60km/h

high speed driving is going strong on those streets (few on the 30km/h because they are most of the times very narrow or have lot's of corners)
radar speed controls (either from cars or boxes) are everyday business here
there are about 7-8 boxes around in our town which sometimes are activated and somtimes are not

edit:actually there have been even a few 20 km/h signs around but all of them got replaced for 30km/h signs

[MongoTheGeek]

30 km/h is pretty normal on some smaller streets inside of towns ("30er-Zone") for the ones with more traffic it is normally 50km/h or for the big ones up to 60km/h

high speed driving is going strong on those streets (few on the 30km/h because they are most of the times very narrow or have lot's of corners)
radar speed controls (either from cars or boxes) are everyday business here
there are about 7-8 boxes around in our town which sometimes are activated and somtimes are not

edit:actually there have been even a few 20 km/h signs around but all of them got replaced for 30km/h signs

20!

Do they give tickets to people on bicycles? Sprinting pedestrians?

[takao]

20!

Do they give tickets to people on bicycles? Sprinting pedestrians?

because of that they dropped it (sadly because i live in one of those streets)
you know it's one of those streets where cars have to pull back sometimes because there is not enough place for 2 of them ;) not really much traffic either (and smaller cars)

personally i know a guy who was stopped by the police for doing more than 30 on a bicycle..he was late for school ..
the policemen gave him a warning to be more carefull next time and released him with a grin on their faces ;)

[Peyote]

I will say that when I arrived in the DFW area, was the attention to school zones. I was surprised when I saw people slowing down to 10mph at schools even without police in attendance.

They never could be sure where the police were. God love Texas.

I drive across DFW every day since I moved here two months ago. The drivers here are the rudest, meanest, most spiteful drivers I've ever seen. I myself am from Houston, so I drive aggressively, but Dallas drivers drive as though the drive to and from work is a war with the other drivers.

[MongoTheGeek]

I drive across DFW every day since I moved here two months ago. The drivers here are the rudest, meanest, most spiteful drivers I've ever seen. I myself am from Houston, so I drive aggressively, but Dallas drivers drive as though the drive to and from work is a war with the other drivers.

DFW has nothing on LA in terms of rude and aggressive drivers and LA is Romper Room compared to everything on the I95 corridor North of Richmond.

There is little in life that will prepare you for trying to go from the outer loop of the washington beltway to I-95 South.

[Chip NoVaMac]

DFW has nothing on LA in terms of rude and aggressive drivers and LA is Romper Room compared to everything on the I95 corridor North of Richmond.

There is little in life that will prepare you for trying to go from the outer loop of the washington beltway to I-95 South.

I agree, and the further North you go, the worse it gets. Try doing the NJ Turnpike, the Cross Bronx Expressway, or I95 in CT.

[jsw]

It is not that it is that much faster than allowed. It about respect for the law, and what society expects. not pegging you alone, but that attitude allows for it to creep into other areas that it matters. Breaking the law, is breaking the law.

Well, true. But the laws are often made in order to allow for tickets to be written and therefore to produce revenue. Traffic laws should be dictated by what is safe, not by what is enough slower than what is reasonable that officials can therefore expect constant ticket revenue.

At least around the outskirts of Boston, there is practically zero attempt to enforce the speed limit during rush hours. Why? Because, if traffic weren't moving at 75-80, the necessary volume of traffic required to get that many people to work on time wouldn't be supported, and business would suffer. On the other hand, late in the day, plenty of tickets are written.

It would seem that, if the speed limits were there to promote safety, more tickets would be written when more people were "at risk" - not when the roads were nearly empty.

Obeying the law - driving 65 or 55 on the expressways north of the city during rush hour - causes traffic backups and increases the risk of accidents. Given a choice between obeying the law and doing the safest thing - which is always driving at the speed of traffic, not much above it nor much below it - I pick the safest course of action. Which also happens to get me to work faster.

Road rage is driven by slow traffic, not by lots of traffic. Slow traffic is, more often than not, caused by people driving too slowly relative to other traffic. Others behind them brake to slow down, creating a ripple effect. In other words, if everyone agrees to go 60mph, traffic moves at 60mph. But, counter-intuitively, if most agree to go at 70 mph but some decide to go at 60, the net traffic speed actually sags below 60 in congested traffic due to the fact that people typically reduce their speed faster than they increase it.

The higher the speed limit, the more traffic volume is allowed. The key is to get people to drive at that higher speed and especially to get them to get up to traffic speed ASAP when joining the flow from on ramps.

So, in way too long a post, basically I think that traffic finds its preferred speed, and that preferred speed is almost higher than the posted speed. Not because people want to break the law. But because speed limits are - significantly, in places - below the speed people "feel" they should go. And that is intentional - it allows lucrative tickets to be written.

Hence, those particluar laws - speed limits - are written expressly to allow ticket income when desired and to allow them to be ignored when useful. I have a hard time respecting laws written with the hope I would break them.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Sorry, but it sounds as an excuse to speed IMO. It goes with the attitude that to hell with everyone else, I want to do what I want.

The reason that traffic enforcement is lax during rush is more to do with the delays that would result from the rubbernecker.

[leftbanke7]

I'm in Fairfax county for several months, chip, and the traffic here is amazing (at least from a michiganians perspective :)). I never realized just how much traffic you could have at six in the morning or even any time of the day. And the roads here don't go anywhere in particular. They make no sense. Haven't you people ever heard of placing roads on a grid?!? :D

I just spent the weekend in Denver and their roads make NO sense to me. You have to memorize where you are going based on turns and landmarks (I will forever remember the Ya Hala restaurant on Colorado and Evans and the the adult shop billboard on the quagmire that is Evans/Quebec/Iliff). LoDo is pretty messed up too.

People come to Salt Lake and say that the streets are confusing. How? It's a grid and the roads are numerical and increase in number as you go in a certain direction (ie. 2100 South is further south than 1300 South and further north than 3500 South). It's so much easier to tell a person who has never been to a city to meet you at 4100 South and 5600 West than to tell them to meet you at the corner of Yale and Harvard.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I'm in Fairfax county for several months, chip, and the traffic here is amazing (at least from a michiganians perspective :)). I never realized just how much traffic you could have at six in the morning or even any time of the day. And the roads here don't go anywhere in particular. They make no sense. Haven't you people ever heard of placing roads on a grid?!? :D

It is sort of a holdover to the early days of transportation. Take the path of least resistance (easier to build wandering roads at the time). Now we have communities that resist roads. The richer and more powerful the community, the road is less likely to cut through, but rather go around. Add to that environmental issues, and you have more twists and turns.

[MikeLaRiviere]

The thing is that this sort of behavior can get you shot in many urban areas.... We have allowed law breakers the ability to to have they freedom to do what they want.

This is the funniest thing I've seen on these forums. Chip, you sound exactly like my parents; they say the same thing. I'm not really sure where any of y'all get your information, though, because I drive around one of the biggest "urban areas" in the country, Chicago. Fact is, usually I am the one trying to get by the slow drivers. Where I live, the speed limit is more a recommendation, and people generally disregard it. People fall under four tiers: those who drive under the speed limit, those who drive 5 mph over the speed limit, those who drive 10-15 mph over the speed limit, and those who simply don't pay attention to the speed limit. I'm usually in the third tier on regular roads, the fourth tier on the expressways, and the second tier after I've gotten a ticket.

You see, police know that no one obeys the speed limit. I can't imagine that you drive the exact speed limit on the expressway - 55 mph? That's pretty dangerous considering there are a lot like me who drive at least 35 mph faster than you. Around Chicago, 55 mph speed limit is regarded as 70 mph, and once you get further out, 65 mph speed limit is considered 80-90 mph. However, as mad as I might get about the guy in the left lane going 25 mph slower than me, I'm not going to shoot him. I'm not really sure what urban areas you're talking about... I suppose if one were trying to provoke some guy in the project, then one might have a confrontation to deal with. But people who don't belong in the projects stay on the expressways and in the Loop, or, better yet, take public transportation. So getting shot is a non-issue, and the idea therefore is pretty funny.

What it comes down to is this: if some guy's going 18 mph in front of me, I'm going to get mad, and most of those who live in the city or suburbs will agree with me. Am I going to beat him up? No. But the article was pretty funny, and my first reaction was, "Good."

Mike LaRiviere

[Chip NoVaMac]

This is the funniest thing I've seen on these forums. Chip, you sound exactly like my parents; they say the same thing. I'm not really sure where any of y'all get your information, though, because I drive around one of the biggest "urban areas" in the country, Chicago. Fact is, usually I am the one trying to get by the slow drivers. Where I live, the speed limit is more a recommendation, and people generally disregard it. People fall under four tiers: those who drive under the speed limit, those who drive 5 mph over the speed limit, those who drive 10-15 mph over the speed limit, and those who simply don't pay attention to the speed limit. I'm usually in the third tier on regular roads, the fourth tier on the expressways, and the second tier after I've gotten a ticket.

You see, police know that no one obeys the speed limit. I can't imagine that you drive the exact speed limit on the expressway - 55 mph? That's pretty dangerous considering there are a lot like me who drive at least 35 mph faster than you. Around Chicago, 55 mph speed limit is regarded as 70 mph, and once you get further out, 65 mph speed limit is considered 80-90 mph. However, as mad as I might get about the guy in the left lane going 25 mph slower than me, I'm not going to shoot him. I'm not really sure what urban areas you're talking about... I suppose if one were trying to provoke some guy in the project, then one might have a confrontation to deal with. But people who don't belong in the projects stay on the expressways and in the Loop, or, better yet, take public transportation. So getting shot is a non-issue, and the idea therefore is pretty funny.

What it comes down to is this: if some guy's going 18 mph in front of me, I'm going to get mad, and most of those who live in the city or suburbs will agree with me. Am I going to beat him up? No. But the article was pretty funny, and my first reaction was, "Good."

Mike LaRiviere

One, your parents and I remember a time that police were out there more than they are now. Budget matters have hurt that. And at the same time lawlessness on the roads are the result. Also traffic fines are no where near the "punitive" level to deter lawbreakers.

35mph+ over the limit is reckless driving, no matter where you drive in the US. Beyond that how does one decide what laws you will obey? Is it OK to steal from the store. Is it OK to cheat on taxes? Downloading of copyrighted materials OK? Maybe we should punish those that commit murder then.

I am sorry that my doing 5 to 10mph over the limit in the left lane, when the right lane is doing less than that is a problem for you (on a two lane highway). I will move over when it is safe to do so. But you have to have respect of the basic laws too. Just that you feel that the law is wrong, does not make your actions legal or more so safe.

The reference to being shot is also about the road rage issue. And the misguided (IMO) policies that allow people to carry weapons. Just because someone is not going as fast as YOU (and this is not directed at you personally) want is no reason to tailgate, cut someone off, or jam on your brakes once you do get in front of them.

I love it seeing someone speed along, weaving in and out of heavy traffic. Only to catch up to them at the toll booth or stoplight.

[blackfox]

Since this thread seems to be about driving habits/observations, I thought I'd chime in with mine...

I have always had pretty slow 4-banger cars, so excessive speeding has never really been an issue for me, as I genuinely feel my car may fall apart over 90.

Unless I am traveling between cities, I usually opt to not use the highways, in favor of the arterial through-streets, which I find more interesting.

Because my car(s) are generally very slow to accelerate and handle, I have learned to drive defensively and to pay attention to everything going on around me. I generally go 5-10 mph over the speed limit on the highway, and pretty much 35-45 in the city, regardless of posted limit. I have never been in an accident, or gotten a speeding ticket. The reason, perhaps, is that I only rarely glance at my speedometer, and instead follow the speed of traffic, as a matter of safety and pragmatism.

I often prefer the middle lane of a three-lane highway as it offers me the opportunity to go a reasonable speed, yet lets those who choose to go faster, do so unimpeded in the left lane. In those times I am in the left-lane, I can usually see faster moving vehicles coming in my rear-view, and move out of the way until they pass. It seems reasonable behavior.

I think that hurtling down the freeway in a huge piece of metal is not a time to make a principled stand. To impede traffic by going the speed-limit in the fast lane, while technically-correct and perhaps making oneself happy by principle, endangers all the traffic around you, as those faster vehicles often weave through the open gaps in all lanes to get past, a much more dangerous situation. This does not even take into account the anger/raised emotions such activities can induce. There is the old bumper-sticker that says "those going faster than you are idiots, those going slower are morons"...with that in mind, just move out of the way and get where you're going without any gunshots or wrecks...

Sorry for length...

[Eomando]

I'm just completely shocked reading some of the things that have been said here, and how very few people seem to care about the speed limits at all, and think of them as a nuisance! :eek:

Come on, people, at least here in the UK, speed limits are there for a reason - to save lives.. If you're going to ignore a speed limit by a school, or in any built-up area really, you could quite easily kill someone - not just injure them, but actually *kill* them....

Even if you argue then that speeding on a motorway is ok, how would you be feeling if someone on the other side of the road, also speeding, loses control of their car and comes crashing into you?? you wouldn't be feeling anything...most likely you'd be dead..

Probably I'll be blasted for saying such things, but I can't help it. If i'm ever in the US, I'm now going to be terrified about crossing any road, since people seem to think its acceptable to drive over the limit.....

[Chip NoVaMac]

I'm just completely shocked reading some of the things that have been said here, and how very few people seem to care about the speed limits at all, and think of them as a nuisance! :eek:

Come on, people, at least here in the UK, speed limits are there for a reason - to save lives.. If you're going to ignore a speed limit by a school, or in any built-up area really, you could quite easily kill someone - not just injure them, but actually *kill* them....

Even if you argue then that speeding on a motorway is ok, how would you be feeling if someone on the other side of the road, also speeding, loses control of their car and comes crashing into you?? you wouldn't be feeling anything...most likely you'd be dead..

Probably I'll be blasted for saying such things, but I can't help it. If i'm ever in the US, I'm now going to be terrified about crossing any road, since people seem to think its acceptable to drive over the limit.....

The comment that you will hear from some on this side of the pond, is that the speed limits are to low for the way the roads were designed. That may have been true when the traffic was half of what it is today.