G5 announced Jan, Available Feb / Mar

[Ensign Paris]

Take a look at:
http://www.architosh.com/news/2001-12/2001c-1215-g4g5.phtml

I think we will see the anouncement of G5s at MW:SF, with them being available in Feb or March.

Do you think that Steve Jobs ever looks at these?

Guy

[menoinjun]

Impossible. No way. If they are going to be announced...then they will be available immediately, with maybe only one shipping 2 weeks later.

Why would anyone buy a G4 if you could get a G5 in a month? That would completely cannibalize Apple's sales for the month of January. Forget the waiting part.

-Pete

[Ensign Paris]

All I can tell is that it is likely that there will be no G5 in janurary, but in feb or march.

Guy

[jefhatfield]

in jan 2002, apple desperately needs to announce the g5 and if they can't ship right away, then have a huge sale on g4s in january to move stock and still hopefully make some profit and not have a cannibalized january

we can't let this whole p4 campaign stomp thru the market winning over new users with their 2 ghz machines selling left and right

steve jobs now needs to back his magic with product because he can't change sales based only on his charisma, and charisma he has but these are lean times

[Ensign Paris]

I am afraid that I don't know what is going to happen.

I think that Apple really need to have atleast one machine over 1.5ghz or atleast 1ghz.

Come Jan. 7th we will know what goin on!

Guy

[DannyZR2]

I think the way things are looking CLEARLY indicates that we will see the G5 AND the G4 BOTH!

THinkabout the rumors of the new iMac.. If steve is indicating that the new thing to come out at the EXPO is going to be an iMac, he has called it 'powerful'.. this tells me it will have a G4 and since it has a G4, it will ship with a SuperDrive in the high-end model. Does this not make sense!?

AND since the consumer iMac will be getting the G4.. (APOLLO) then this makes room for the new line of PowerMacs to ship with the new G5 (true 64-bit) processor.

I really think this is what we will see. It is possible, and likely, that the G5 will be announced only, and not shipped until February, just as many products have been in the past, but I do believe we will see an announcement of the new iMac G4 and PowerMac G5 lines.

[DannyZR2]

you can quote me on this after the expo! i would bet this is going to happen.

[menoinjun]

I see. A G4 Apollo iMac with 15" LCD AND a superdrive?? And exactly how much would this "consumer product" cost there pal?

-pete

[DannyZR2]

if you read my post. i said the high-end iMac G4 would have the SuperDrive.. not them all..

[falc420]

Hello everybody,

We might see a speed bump of the G4 Power Macs, and maybe the G5, but I am pretty sure the main focus of the January announcements will be the new iMac.

I was at CompUSA (aka CompAbu$er) today and noticed they had only one blue iMac, in a box, on the floor. All of the display iMacs were gone also. All of the other products appeared to be in stock, and they even had an iPod display. This is in Des Moines, Iowa, where in the past, new products would take at least a few days, if not a week or more, to hit the shelves.

Let's hope that Apple's been able to clear their inventory as well as they did here, if indeed that is what happened.

Colin

[eyelikeart]

No offense to falc420...

but u mean to tell me there's an Apple Store in Des Moines, Iowa and none in New Orleans?!

[Falleron]

No he said it was at CompUSA!

[yanny]

Originally posted by ptrauber
Impossible. No way. If they are going to be announced...then they will be available immediately, with maybe only one shipping 2 weeks later.

Why would anyone buy a G4 if you could get a G5 in a month? That would completely cannibalize Apple's sales for the month of January. Forget the waiting part.

-Pete

Because there is a price difference. I think Apollo G4 and G5 will feature at the same time in the PowerMac range. Low-end will have Apollo G4, high-end will have G5.

I don't know about the new Imac though, whether it will be Sahara G3 or just G4, I hope it will be G4.

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by Falleron
No he said it was at CompUSA!

oops...

I guess I was more tired than I thought! ;)

[Kethoticus]

How is it that we can be so badly let down from rumors as recently as 6 months ago, and come right back for more punishment??

I swear, some Mac lovers are masochists.

[samy85114]

If Apple are going to release G5 on Juanuary, they will make it available on keynote day or by 2 weeks. as someone said, if you know that G5 gonna be available do u think you gonna purchase a mac 1 month before his coming... i dont think so! you would be attracted to buy the latest one and surely not the oldest...
But there,s only one thing i hope the most... G5 in january!

I thought about it yesterday, is it possible that Apple put the G4 down in the iMac to keep towers for G5... it,S not impossible.. after all! And they gonna change their laptops in the next few months, as they did before with iBook and Powerbook.

Tell me your opinion about that.

[kaneda]

Imac G4 will be available at SF Keynote, not the G5. That would be available mid-Feb.

The imac G4 does not come with superdrive, it's still CDR-DVD. And the model speed 733mhz-1.2ghz.

G5 offers 1.2ghz-1.6ghz. Superdrive for all models. The high-end model is comparable to SGI workstation.

[Kethoticus]

"After this morning's announcements, I have to say that the Mac is falling apart. Here I am expecting 1.6GHz G5s, and all we have are these stupid Apollo G4s, no higher than 1.13GHz! Alright, so we have LCD iMacs, which ain't bad, but I need a workstation. What the hell kind of an Expo was this? You're really going down Apple!"

.....

"Apple, you suck! I was gonna buy a new Mac this new year, but now? Forget it. I'm gonna think different alright Mr. Jobs!"

.....

"1.13GHz G4s? That's it? I feel so ripped off. I'm not even buying a new Mac now. And I still gotta listen to my Wintel buddy talking about his 1.6GHz Athlon."

[Kethoticus]

Folks, I hope I'm wrong. Few people will be happier than I if I am. But we need to be realistic here, and nobody is.

[falc420]

Folks, I hope I'm wrong. Few people will be happier than I if I am. But we need to be realistic here, and nobody is.

Kethoticus -- I'd say that my earlier post is a lot more realistic than some of the other ones. *grin* What do you think?

Eyelikeart...I wish we had an Apple Store in Des Moines, Iowa. The CompUSA here is the epitome of pathetic! Yes, they have been improving, but it is still truly a sad sight.

I'd totally understand your shock if Des Moines had an Apple Store. But know this: I would immediately arm wrestle you for 'custody' of an Apple Store here. ;-)

Here's to the hope that Apple can flush out their channel inventory and make room for some great new Macs!

Colin

[kaneda]

Where did you get that info about G4's 1.14ghz!! that is whacked! what the hell did Apple do last 6 months? masterbating!

By next year, Apple will fall further behind to PC. They better get their head out of their (_|_) and make some serious products here! We don't need ipod! We need a faster personal PC, and making Powerful laptop will not gain much of Personal PC market.

Next year, I think more and more people will convert to PC. If it is really true that their next desktop will be 1.14ghz and summer I guess dual 1.14ghz...I will definitely get a PC and that run WIN XP.

this is what I am going to get.
http://www.alienware.com

[Kid Red]

Chill, his post is about "the morning after the announcement" meaning it hasn't happened yet. It's a joke on what he thinks may happen.

[iwantanewmac]

Can u all stop talking about the stuff that apple will or will not bring out soon.
especialy persons who say: I hate speculating but..... and then AGAIN a whole nonsense story begins.
Just wait! only if you have REAL rumors let me hear.
That's what this site is called: Macrumors.
not Macidiottalk

[Kethoticus]

Thanx Kid Red. I'm glad someone gets my meaning here.

And as for falc20, I dunno man. I really don't think we're gonna see G5s just yet—although like I said, I'll be the first to chear if there are. And you wanna talk retail problems? There still ain't an Apple store in the largest city in the country yet. (Although there are some great Mac places in NY, like RCS and J&R—although I'm not sure if the latter is open for business after the attacks, it's that far south on the island).

[dantec]

I think Apple will stick a 800mhz G5 in their lowest powermac. Then the 1.2 and 1.5 models will ship a little later, (about 2 weeks) and the dual will come, the following month.

I just hope we don't have a catastrophy as with the G4's. Does anyone remember the speed dumping experience?

[fukuhela]

I have to admit that as long they at least announce the G5 I'll be happy. I think it is important for Apple to show that they are really working on making big and fast computers by devolping af new chip (Motorola).

Eventhough I don't actually have use of such a big computer I would like to see something new that might win over some wintel-users - they need to show that they are a serious competition to the PC (seen from the eyes of af stupid wintel-user).

[randydecker]

Originally posted by kaneda
Where did you get that info about G4's 1.14ghz!! that is whacked! what the hell did Apple do last 6 months? masterbating!

By next year, Apple will fall further behind to PC. They better get their head out of their (_|_) and make some serious products here! We don't need ipod! We need a faster personal PC, and making Powerful laptop will not gain much of Personal PC market.

Next year, I think more and more people will convert to PC. If it is really true that their next desktop will be 1.14ghz and summer I guess dual 1.14ghz...I will definitely get a PC and that run WIN XP.

this is what I am going to get.
http://www.alienware.com
I had a look and I am truly envious if you get that system with the Klipsch Pro Media 5.1 system. I have Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 attached to my G4 and they are truly fine. However There is one huge drawback on that system: Windows.

[GeeYouEye]

When they announced the newest G4, they shipped the 733MHz and 867Mhz models two weeks later. It took almost a month for the DP800, IIRC. Anyway that's probably what will happen here; they ship the 1.0 and 1.2 GHz two week after they announce them and the 1.4Ghz a month after.

[eyelikeart]

would u be referring to the downgrade from 400-500 to 350-450 for the same price?

[Foocha]

DESKTOPS
Speed-bumps for existing Quicksilver G4's to 1.4Ghz single processor, 1Ghz dual processor and 867Mhz Single Processor. All machine come with Superdrive.

IMACS
Entry level iMac has same form factor as current iMacs, indigo color, 600Mhz G3, retailing at $799
Mid range iMac with new LCD based all-in-one metal and white plastic enclosure 800Mhz G3 $999
Top range iMac, same enclosure as mid range, 1Ghz G3, Optional Superdrive & hardware MPEG compression for iDVD

[amichalo]

After skimming more posts than I care to that <b>*demand*</b> G5's and 1 Ghz+ processors, I can only wonder whether or not any one asked themselves "Why do I need this power"?

I have always considered myself a power user and unlike Wintel machines of my past, the 400 Mhz G4 Ti with 256mb of RAM is completely satisfactory for my needs as an IT consultant. What are you guys doing that you are all up in arms that Apple isn't following down the rediculous road Intel is forging?

Get this news - by this time next year, you won't be able to buy a new Intel system that runs at less than 2 Ghz (you heard it hear first) so then what are you going to do? I ask why do we need all that power? Games? Buy a PS2/X Box/GameCube. Want to do some work, even the low end iMacs (with 128+ ram) boom through OS X.

I would much rather buy a well rounded system with fast firewire, ubiquitous USB, agile Airport, 1GB Eithernet, large clear screens, awesome battery life, plenty of RAM, and, oh yeah, a process that keeps pace with, not blows away, these components' capabilities.

But then maybe everyone who posts to this group works on render farms and needs that kind of power at a keystroke.

[lera]

I've been working in A mac store. I have worked in a wintel store also I have used fast computers from both sides. Mac's ROCK. the 733Mhz powermac kills a 2Ghz pentium poor. I guess that you could show me a program that crawls on the mac and soars on the pc. I could show you the same I'm sure I program written poorly will not run quickly. and when a pc user writes a program for the mac I'd figure it'll often happen poorly. (hint: if a program runs more quickly on VPC than it does natively on the mac somone didn't do their programing very well) the G3's are another story they have potential and every one of the mentaly stable people that have had decent control of the language I speek: I have been able to make understand that the G4 is faster Mhz to Mhz than the G3. Right now the line breaks at 700Mhz G3 to 733Mhz G4 on the desktops the G3 can go faster but I think apple has tried to keep from confusing the public I'd not be suprised if we see some realy fast G3's (or I wish) and a little sped bump on the G4's. Don't write this in stone in fact write it only in pencil because we at the store are not told of the new products until apple anounces them to the public. But I don't think we'll see or hear a word about G5's. I do think that we'll see some cool things and that the Keynote will be one to remember but I don't expect the G5 it just doesn't make sense.

[Edited by Lera on 12-27-2001 at 03:08 AM]

[Kid Red]

Kethoticus-

np :)


Originally posted by dantec
I think Apple will stick a 800mhz G5 in their lowest powermac. Then the 1.2 and 1.5 models will ship a little later, (about 2 weeks) and the dual will come, the following month.


Why would Apple release 800mhz, 1.2ghz & 1.5ghz? It would a consistent increase, not 400mhz and a 300mhz increase.

I think 1ghz, 1.2ghz and 1.4ghz G5s with all the trimmings:)

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by amichalo
After skimming more posts than I care to that <b>*demand*</b> G5's and 1 Ghz+ processors, I can only wonder whether or not any one asked themselves "Why do I need this power"?

I have always considered myself a power user and unlike Wintel machines of my past, the 400 Mhz G4 Ti with 256mb of RAM is completely satisfactory for my needs as an IT consultant. What are you guys doing that you are all up in arms that Apple isn't following down the rediculous road Intel is forging?

Get this news - by this time next year, you won't be able to buy a new Intel system that runs at less than 2 Ghz (you heard it hear first) so then what are you going to do? I ask why do we need all that power? Games? Buy a PS2/X Box/GameCube. Want to do some work, even the low end iMacs (with 128+ ram) boom through OS X.

I would much rather buy a well rounded system with fast firewire, ubiquitous USB, agile Airport, 1GB Eithernet, large clear screens, awesome battery life, plenty of RAM, and, oh yeah, a process that keeps pace with, not blows away, these components' capabilities.

But then maybe everyone who posts to this group works on render farms and needs that kind of power at a keystroke.

I find this to be one of the better thought out posts on this board for weeks.

At some point a computer is purchased to perform tasks, not give bragging rights and blow your hair back.

I would add raid to this list. Frankly raid can be added by firewire to any computer these days.

It wouldn't hurt that Apple gain render farm and server farm market share, but this is less likely soon.

Rocketman

[jefhatfield]

i too, used to be an IT consultant for someone with an IT business and now i have my own IT business and the computing needs are never too wild as an IT consultant

....but don't forget those gamers, the best machine is always not good enough and from what i have been hearing lately, there seem to be more and more of those envelope pushing mac gamers around...i thought the pc world completely kicked mac out of the gaming realm, but mac has come back with a vengeance and as the oldtimers remember, macs use to be synonymous with the concept of kick ass computer gaming

...but the bragging rights crowd probably outnumber the gamers two to one on this forum

i remember someone on this forum getting rid of their 500 mhz g4 because it became too old for them only to replace that with a qucksilver g4...to me that sounds less like need and more like bragging rights

where my wife works, many of the computer users, of all types for all reasons, use g4s, and when the new shipments came in from the company that rents machines to her company, they wondered not what kind of computer they were getting, but if these g4s would be the quicksilver models as opposed to those outdated pre-quicksilver models

...so for any of you who think a pre-quicksilver g4 is too old for them, just give it to some g3 using person (ibook 300) like me or sell it to them super cheap and i am sure you will make them happy

as bad as the bragging rights people are in the mac world, it's not nearly as bad as the envelope pushers of the pc world who have passed 1 ghz early last year and can't wait to approach 2.5 ghz reaaly soon en route to 3 ghz

...some of these types buy or build a machine more than once a year and that would bankrupt the average mac user since we don't have the option to build relatively inexpensive and fast macs...yet (those there are those super geeks who can do that...see woz.org to see and hear from some of them...it's really amazing to say the least!)

[Edited by jefhatfield on 12-27-2001 at 10:56 AM]

[GigaWire]

Where did you get that info about G4's 1.14ghz!! that is whacked! what the hell did Apple do last 6 months? masterbating!

By next year, Apple will fall further behind to PC. They better get their head out of their (_|_) and make some serious products here! We don't need ipod! We need a faster personal PC, and making Powerful laptop will not gain much of Personal PC market.

Next year, I think more and more people will convert to PC. If it is really true that their next desktop will be 1.14ghz and summer I guess dual 1.14ghz...I will definitely get a PC and that run WIN XP.

this is what I am going to get.
http://www.alienware.com

You do realize that you can build their best system on your own for $600 less than what they charge? i am currently building one for a friend who also considered alienware. Oh, and it is color coordinated for all parts too.

[eyelikeart]

U seem more in favor of PeeCee promoting than for discussing Mac rumors. For $600 u can build what kind of computer? Not a Mac! PeeCee's can cost cheap like that to build and there is a reason why.

Apple may be much slower at getting the Mhz #'s up there like their peecee counterparts, but I think most people here can agree that quality of what u get from Apple far exceeds the performance of what u get in a Wintel box. More expensive sure, but if u compare the #'s, a 800 mhz Pentium gets left in the dust of a 733 G4.

just my 2¢...

[amichalo]

I just can't figure out why people buy BMW's. I mean, for the same money you can get a top of the line Asian car that will last you twice as long and cost you half as much to repair. Further, the same money will buy you an American made car with more horsepower and a louder engine.

But perhaps owners of the self proclaimed 'Ultimate Driving Machine' put more value on their engine being mated to the right suspension, to a silky shifter and the ergonomics of their cockpit. Maybe they like being in a smaller, perhaps more exclusive community of owners.

Gateway/Dell/Alien/etc sell PC's with big engines and flashy fireballs painted on the hoods. But Apple sells the Ultimate Computing Machine and hasn't waisted their customers money by selling 1Ghz systems mated to 64mb of Ram and a 15" monitor just so they can sell a PC for $999 or $499 or $199.

We all have choices to make, but if lowest price isn't your bottom line, then the choices get a bit more interesting, and it is those people who Apple is targeting.

So I still can't figure out WHY we need these hulking beasts of processing power.

[Wes]

This isn't a mac related comment....

But, American cars suck.


A Porsche, Aston martin, Tvr, Ferrari, Maeserati and etc. could burn a mustang, or a dodge viper no problem.


But one thing those American cars have nice seats I'll give them that.

[jefhatfield]

analogies bring the often cloudy world of apple into clearer view for those on the inside of apple like us who use them and those on the outside (first time users and pc users)

sometimes it makes no sense to tell a first time computer user that the mac at 733 mhz with an altivec g4 processor is better than that 1 ghz pc with an amd duron or athlon because it beat it in adobe photoshop tests in an unsharp mask time

analogies give new users as well as seasoned techies a viewpoint and the "bmw" analogy is the best i have heard yet

i would also like to compare macs to volvos because macs are tough and they last long and both products have a fiercely loyal following

[eyelikeart]

This is the exact way I describe to friends and non-believers how a Mac is better vs. a PeeCee....at least when I explain to them why Macs are used for what I do...

They always shake their heads like they understand and say "ooohhh......ok"

[Foocha]

iMac = VW Beetle (odd but kinda cool)

PowerBook G4 = Audi TT (stylish, sporty but not the fastest)

[Edited by Foocha on 12-27-2001 at 01:20 PM]

[amichalo]

If so many of you agree that it isn't Mhz that makes the machine, then I have two questions:

(1) Why does the computing public still relate Mhz with performace?

(2) Why are *Mac* users demanding 1+ Ghz machines?

[amichalo]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
....but don't forget those gamers, the best machine is always not good enough and from what i have been hearing lately, there seem to be more and more of those envelope pushing mac gamers around...i thought the pc world completely kicked mac out of the gaming realm, but mac has come back with a vengeance and as the oldtimers remember, macs use to be synonymous with the concept of kick ass computer gaming

...but the bragging rights crowd probably outnumber the gamers two to one on this forum.

This is an interesting observation. I never really thought of the Mac platform as a gaming machine. I think that was one of the reasons I was not interested in them when I was much younger (when there was the Apple II line, etc). Would you tell us more about the days when Apple was more dominant in gaming? Today, one can hardly find Apple software in a retail store, and I have observed only the best or the best games come to Macs and only much later (Myst, Sims, Civ, etc).

Wonder why Mac users don't demand games. Do you think it is a function of a lack of suppy or a lack of demand?

[iwantanewmac]

This is the saddest thing I ever saw on this site.
You ever driven a audi TT son?
IT sucks. you driven a beetle? IT sucks.
keep thi siet rumor related. ha

[randy "long" johnson]

<< After skimming more posts than I care to that <b>*demand*</b> G5's and 1 Ghz+ processors, I can only wonder whether or not any one asked themselves "Why do I need this power"? >>

I use G4's for DV editing and high-end audio multitracking (along with various print design tasks I'm requested to do from time to time). All of these applications (Final Cut Pro, Logic Audio, Digital Performer, Peak, Photoshop, Lightwave, etc..) are extremely processor intensive, when used to this extent.

So, for myself, the attention to progressive processing is well appreciated, as it saves me from staring through task bars for such extended periods and ultimately makes all of my tasks easier to plow through; technology is, as of yet, catching up to the demands of digital media.

Now, yes.. I realise I'm in a relative minority of users (as many people use their iMacs for word processing and checking email). But, keep in mind that this relative minority makes up a good percentage of Apple's professional majority. That is, digital art's been Apple's cornerstone all all along. And, in many ways, this is what has distinguished it from PC's of the like. If they chose to alienate that audience and, instead, focus on the "average consumer", then they'd no longer fill that niche and be head to head with companies like MS, IBM, and Sony.

[amichalo]

Originally posted by iwantanewmac
This is the saddest thing I ever saw on this site.
You ever driven a audi TT son?
IT sucks. you driven a beetle? IT sucks.
keep thi siet rumor related. ha

Keeping this site "rumor related", there is a rumor that the Audi TT has won too many awards to list. A little birdy told me about these five. Does anyone know of more?

*Car and Driver "10 Best" Award
*AAA "Top Car" Award
*Consumer Digest "Best Buy"
*Automobile Magazine "Design of the Year", 2000
*Auto Interiors Magazine "Car Interior of the Year", 2000

[Foocha]

Hi "iwantanewmac"

Thanks for the dose of attitude. Very bracing.

In fact, you got right to the heart of my point - Macs look very attractive (in a different sort of way) but they're not the best in terms of performance, just like the Beetle & the TT.

[eyelikeart]

u guys are cracking me up...

[samy85114]

Maybe they're not the best, but compare to Pc based on Windows... Mac beat them... but if we take a look to Sun computer or big things like that. I agree

[samy85114]

... but a Mac is so user-friendly nad so powerful too!

[Foocha]

People don't love Windows PCs - people do love Macs.

People don't love Fords - people do love Beetles and TTs

There's a lot to be said for award winning design.

[eyelikeart]

what if I drive a Toyota?!

[dizastor]

In response to Foocha...
*People don't love Fords - people do love Beetles and TTs

I love my ford (2001 Mustang GT) and I would rather walk than drive a Beetle. The TT is ok, but you have to be an old man to want to drive a TT.
--
Back on the subject of the thread, bring on the next DP G4, at 1.? ghz.

[jefhatfield]

i was in college when we had our apple IIe and i have to admit, games are all my younger brother and i ever did with that poor machine...i did not get into word processing until the macintosh and at that point, while i heard of gaming from the geeks and nerds, i only typed papers

when i used go to computerware and fry's in northern california, i was suprised to see all the games out in macintosh, many more titles than i had seen just a few years earlier...and about them coming out on pc, i don't know if their release dates were soomer or not to be honest since my days at office depot were there selling pc only games so i did have to travel to get mac games, but there are many games out there now...but unfortunatlely you have to search and some old time mac gamers would always tell me of the time when the mac was king in gaming

so my gaming experience was either too early or too late to be in the golden age of mac gaming, but i certainly don't have the money to buy the wide range of games that exist today

mac is a lot more than graphics, office 2001, and the net

[MacManJapan]

If Apple have G% available, they will release.
If they don't, what can they do?

There is no way they can announce a 'new product if they will not be readily available (or 2-3 weeks later). Sure, we all want G5's, but are they ready? Keep in mind that for a majority of users hte true benefit of hte G% might not be felt - hte high end models will benefit.

Apple has to develop LCD, faster chips, OS enhancements, new 'digital hub' devices,and so on - all at once? Give Apple credit for stratergy. They need to work all these developments together. Don't expect everything at once, they will have nothing to announce at future Expos (Tokyo, New York, etc). Let's get away from thie 'if they don't announce at an Expo, they will fail' mentality. They didn't hold over the new TiBook for MWSF did they?

[amichalo]

Originally posted by MacManJapan
Let's get away from thie 'if they don't announce at an Expo, they will fail' mentality. They didn't hold over the new TiBook for MWSF did they?

Great point. Similarly, the iPod was released non-expo as well.

[agreenster]

Sheep. All sheep.

I AM SOOOOOO tired of hearing about mHz. I know its a long heated topic, but mHz in a G5 wont matter near as much as anyone thinks. Regardless of when the G5 comes out, if it is a true 64 bit G5, mHz simply wont matter. Its a blazingly fast chip (like the IBM itanium, which I seem to talk about a lot, but the thing is just unreal) and will absolutely crush a P4. Problem is, if it doesnt come out soon, intel will release their own 64 bit baby and beat Apple out simply because people will easily transition to it.

Point is, dont make unintelligent remarks like, "if the G5 isnt a 1.2 whatever, Im switching to PC." Thats the stupidest thing Ive ever heard. But then again, sheep arent exactly the most intelligent things on the planet. The fastest the itanium processor is clocked at is 800mHz, and destroys any chip in the market. That probably why the systems run you 15 grand for an Intellistation Z.

Base your computer buying on what your needs are, and how much you are willing to spend. I use three different systems (Mac,PC, Unix/SGI) and they all are awesome for what they are needed for.

[Foocha]

The truth is that whilst Mac is still the fastest platform to run Photoshop, it is outperformed in many other areas by Windows PCs which cost substantially less.

There may be a MHz myth going around, but if Apple doesn't crank up the speed soon they could be in trouble.

I'm a big fan of the Mac & I'm hoping Steve will pull something out of the bag in January - performance is a critical issue for the Mac platform right now, and it's no wonder that so many Mac fans on this forum are genuinely concerned about it.

[agreenster]

From what I know of you--you are a really intelligent, nice person.

But I think you misread me. Apple wont have to "crank up" anything (megahertz-wise) if they release a true G5. (MWSF, or 3 months later) The chip archetecture takes care of the speed issue without the high mHz number. I was giving an example with the itanium.

Also, I am totally a proponent of mulitple systems. Im not a mac-only type of guy, even though it is my personal choice. I love 'em all baby.

But you are totally right in your last point. Apple better deliver one way or another because Apple people are getting anxious.

[jayscheuerle]

I guess this is a place for dreams, but there aren't going to be any G5's until next summer. MWSF will not be about processor speed, though Apple will bump them up. Unfortunately, they won't be using the fastest G3s available for the new iMacs because they are faster than the G4's and that wouldn't look right. Until OSX, processor speed was really a "my pecker is bigger than yours" kind of thing. Even the bottom of the line G3s are suitable for 95% of the apps out there. The graphics board matters more these days, but OSX isn't tuned for the graphics boards out there. It's tuned for the Alvitec engine and the G4 processor.

Sure the LCD iMac will look great, but it's the processor rumors that are going to leave everyone disappointed.

Don't let me pop your bubble though. Leave that to Steve...

[agreenster]

I agree with you regarding the G5 release. Notice in my posts I always clarify by saying 'whenever the G5's come out.' I dont see them coming out till summer either, or maybe later.

But its certainly not all about the card. For most gamers, it is, but not for many designers, especially 3D ones. Most 3D designers dont render to the display driver. Plus, hardware rendering (gaming) always occurs in the processor, and is re-organized via the video card. The video card is only as fast as its corresponding processor.

If you have the latest and greatest video card, but a ****** processor, your graphics will look like just that: ******. Conversely, if you have an average, run of the mill 3D vid card, but a good processor, you can make up for some of that loss.

[Foocha]

There's a difference between what you think is going to happen, and what you want to happen.

I'm not holding my breath for a G5 - I suspect we'll just see speed bumped Quicksilver G4s. They need to be pretty fast for them to remain competative with Windows PCs in terms of value.

[agreenster]

agreed.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
This is the exact way I describe to friends and non-believers how a Mac is better vs. a PeeCee....at least when I explain to them why Macs are used for what I do...

They always shake their heads like they understand and say "ooohhh......ok"

That's interesting. I just tell them Intel uses clock-doubled figures and Motorola does not.

[jayscheuerle]

Yes, point taken about 3D work (ELECTRIC IMAGE - the world's fastest render!!), but for most photoshop work a mid-range G3 with loads of ram would not be noticably slower except for applying filters to very large images. I haven't noticed myself watching the clock spin since the days of the clones.

Hard cores will tell you differently, but the difference between 40fps and 90fps is hard for my eyes to discern. And I wish someone would explain how you can see 90fps if your monitor's refreshing @75hz!

And if you're a hard-core, isn't the Mac a diluted choice?

My point is that for most users the megahertz myth goes deeper than PowerPC/Pentium. It's about marketing as much as the pretty enclosures are. Of course, Apple's forcing the 15 month old G3 owners to upgrade anyhow by not supporting their graphics cards at all in OSX...

[agreenster]

Yeah, 3D hard core users certainly dont use Mac for their first choice. #1 is SGI/Unix, although IBM Intellistations are gaining ground-- fast. Most large studios use Maya for modeling (not animation-MODELING) and many independent people use Maya on their Macs. Personally, I use Unix, Maya, and PRRenderMan for rendering at school, but at home I use Cinema4DXL7, which is a pretty damn decent program for the money.

Showing my ignorance: Whats Electric Image? Is it an independant renderer like Renderman?

Gaming wise, yeah--what the hell. 90fps? Gimme a break. The eye cant even discern video 30fps and film 24fps. But Im sure someone here will tell me they can.

But yes, Apple is a lot about style. That is true. No company is perfect, but the point is, most people think Apple is junk because they dont have a 1.x gHz reading on their chips.

[jayscheuerle]

Wow...

Electric Image was THE ONLY professional animation system for the macs up 'til a couple of years ago. It's known for it's ease of achieving photorealism and for its rendering speed (though it didn't do ray tracing until the most recent UNIVERSE version). It was used to some degree in The Phantom Menace.

- and I was actually talking about hard-core gamers, but the comments obviously apply to 3D'ers as well!! I once had a 20 hr render on my 6100 in Studio Pro (back in the day....)

[agreenster]

Sorry, I get carried away when people start talking about 3D, design or gaming. Its just that most people on here dont know much about 3D, which relies so much on the hardware, and most people (and Apple) just compare their hardware's performance with Photoshop.

In the realm of 3D, its like talking about a F16 that takes you to the grocery store.

Sorry didnt know about electric image. I just got into 3D about 3 years ago, and all Ive known is Maya, Bryce, 3DSMax, Cinema4DXL, Adobe Dimensions, Lightwave, and some others I cant think of. Just hadnt heard of Electric Image. Do they have a website?? They arent the same guys who do the Flash 3D exporter, are they?

[jayscheuerle]

http://www.electricimage.com/home.html

You've been playing with the big boys toys, but EI was the best you could get on the Mac. (AND it was ONLY on the Mac!)

[agreenster]

It looks very similar to Cinema4DXL--looks very good!

[sford]

Hi

Any suggestions on which software to use and what books to buy( must be cheap and easy..sorta like me), I want to learn a bit more about 3D design and animation.- from an artistic slant.

Thanks

Originally posted by agreenster
Sorry, I get carried away when people start talking about 3D, design or gaming. Its just that most people on here dont know much about 3D, which relies so much on the hardware, and most people (and Apple) just compare their hardware's performance with Photoshop.

In the realm of 3D, its like talking about a F16 that takes you to the grocery store.

Sorry didnt know about electric image. I just got into 3D about 3 years ago, and all Ive known is Maya, Bryce, 3DSMax, Cinema4DXL, Adobe Dimensions, Lightwave, and some others I cant think of. Just hadnt heard of Electric Image. Do they have a website?? They arent the same guys who do the Flash 3D exporter, are they?

[jefhatfield]

at this juncture in computing, the human eye is still too sharp and that is the reason some big budget movies are returining to using live action and huge props (like ben hur and other classics)

"Pearl Harbor" used real airplanes (9 very rare vintage airplanes) when they didn't have to and had a huge battleship bow built when they didn't have to and had huge explosions (bigger than the movie industry deems safe) just to get the realism

the whole battle sequence could have been done with computers and ilm took a backseat in this movie to the props which must have cost a mint, but those props still look much more real than the best computer 3D

titanic could have also used computers for the whole boat but the director insisted on an 800 ft mockup of the 880 ft behemoth of a ship and the fear was, even with good sales, the movie could have lost money (the movie ended up costing more than the actual titanic)

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by Rocketman
That's interesting. I just tell them Intel uses clock-doubled figures and Motorola does not.
[/B]

As true as this may be, I think that would confuse people even more...

Most people I know don't know much about technical terms with computers...

Most can barely even get on the internet!

[joey j]

agreenster> "like the IBM itanium"

Hehe. Freudian slip? :p

> "will absolutely crush a P4"

Um, the Itanium doesn't even touch the P4 according to the SPEC results I've seen. (maybe the compilers? In any case the itanium is not giving the results we'd expect).

> destroys any chip in the market

Would you get a grip already. The fastest P4 beats it in float and massacres it in int. Bear in mind that the P4 is a step down from the P3 in int performance (according to SPEC).

[newamiga]

Take a closer look at the Moto Europe comments on the G5 on CNN http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/03/G5.mac.idg/index.html
The guy says that there is still a lot of head room left in the G4 but describes this as topping out a 1 Ghz.. sorry but barely doing 1 Ghz wit exising G4's is not going to blow anyone away. We will see G5 at least demoed for later shipping at MWSF.

[seanos]

What Steve Jobs will be announcing is that Mac OS X will be shipping later this month on a P5, not a G5. That's right, Mac OS X has been ported to support the Pentium processor.

The desktop G5 will be running at 2.5 Ghz. This will silence the critics once and for all. All newly shipping computers will be completely backwards compatible with the older file formats, drives, etc.

Happy New Year!

[Foocha]

Great - just when application developers have started porting their apps to OS X, now everyone will have to compile their apps for Intel on OS X instead.

I don't think Apple could get away with that! Sounds unlikely to me.


[Edited by Foocha on 01-02-2002 at 05:51 AM]

[BurntCalc]

A few notes here...

The G5 is a viable chip that has none of the legacy problems of the G4. Only problem is that as of November 2001, it wasn't feature complete enough to put in a desktop machine. However, tests of the chip have yielded chips rating as high as 2.4ghz (that's a very few chips, mind you). This industry moves fast, so it's possible Moto has a viable G5 for a desktop machine.

The Apollo G4 is practically guaranteed. Speeds will debut at 1Ghz, scaling as high as 1.6ghz.

Putting the G4 in the imac has been rumored for some time. i wouldn't be surprised to see it. The G5, however, would be a total surprise. I've heard that Jobs is betting a lot on the G5....

Another consumer device seems likely. No idea what it will be, though. Maybe a "dumb" iTunes player that is like a net-bootable computer, but only through airport... (faster airport??)

Now, to think "realistically" here, our rumors may be way off. Think firewire 2, Airport 2, USB2...

Also, Apple may launch some new type of service for Apple users, along the lines of their iTools. (remember that big server outage???)

What else? The 12-sided enclosure? OSX for PC? I wouldn't count on OSX for PC quite yet.

Well, if even half that stuff came true, i would be pretty happy. I'd personally like to see the G5 towers, G4 iMac, faster airport, firewire, etc... and one new appliance. Then I could die happy.

Or maybe we're missing something. Is there a product X that no one has heard about???