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iWoz
Nov 23, 2009, 05:47 AM
Hi Guys,

Im considering dulging into the iPhone app development jungle. I am a complete newbie in programming/developing. I currently work full time in I.T in 1st/2nd support in a windows environment. However I've purchased an iMac 27' i5 and I really want to challenge myself and learn developing apps etc.

Just wondering what advice anyone can give? I have read the sticky thread on FAQ, however I just wanted to see if anyone could provide any additional info that I might find useful? I guess I could start with reading a beginners guide/book. Can you recommend any? Or has anyone else started like me without a degree in programming or learning any coding.

Thanks in Advance



icewing
Nov 23, 2009, 12:33 PM
Not trying to be short with you, but there have been many similar threads posted here. Try "Search this forum" button and do searches for Books, newbie, etc. There's a ton of them.

Welcome to the party!

newb16
Nov 23, 2009, 12:57 PM
Hi Guys,

Im considering dulging into the iPhone app development jungle. I am a complete newbie in programming/developing. I currently work full time in I.T in 1st/2nd support in a windows environment. However I've purchased an iMac 27' i5 and I really want to challenge myself and learn developing apps etc.
Having a great (expensive) gear (rig) won't make you good programmer automatically and won't greatly facilitate the learning process.


Just wondering what advice anyone can give?
Thanks in Advance

Not to learn language, algorithms and framework all at once unless you have to.

iWoz
Nov 23, 2009, 01:09 PM
Not trying to be short with you, but there have been many similar threads posted here. Try "Search this forum" button and do searches for Books, newbie, etc. There's a ton of them.

Welcome to the party!

ok thanks! I've read through the tutorial etc.. I was just at works, going to some thread searching.:o

ste1989
Nov 23, 2009, 01:29 PM
iWoz87 im in the same position as you.
I don't know any programming languages at all.
In the past I have searched here, but it seems like a lot of people suggest buying books and things.

However I am always looking for a simple online tutorial that will help me learn whatever language I need (c probably?).

Hopefully someone who reads this thread will know one, because in the previous threads, it seems everyone has different opinions on where to start or what to learn

iWoz
Nov 23, 2009, 02:20 PM
Having a great (expensive) gear (rig) won't make you good programmer automatically and won't greatly facilitate the learning process.



Not to learn language, algorithms and framework all at once unless you have to.

Not saying it will, It's just given me some inspiration :)

I think Im gonna purchase the c# programming book suggested in one of the stickies and take it from there...

newb16
Nov 23, 2009, 02:54 PM
I think Im gonna purchase the c# programming book suggested in one of the stickies and take it from there...

Wait, c# is mostly associated with Microsoft platform and toolchain (*). Do you mean C or Objective-C ?

(*)Yes, I know, there is Mono.

ste1989
Nov 23, 2009, 05:23 PM
i ended up downloading the Learn C on the Mac book.

I am following it fine, and am up to variables section, only about page 50 out of 300 :eek:

so far it only seems to have covered main() printf() and maybe one or two other things.
So far so good :)


Im guessing it must get much more difficult, or does it only get difficult when you move to objective-c/cocoa ?

How long do you think it would take using books like this to learn enough to be able to make a VERY basic app with something other than a string of text outputted :P like a few clickable buttons etc ?

iWoz
Nov 23, 2009, 05:28 PM
i ended up downloading the Learn C on the Mac book.

I am following it fine, and am up to variables section, only about page 50 out of 300 :eek:

so far it only seems to have covered main() printf() and maybe one or two other things.
So far so good :)


Im guessing it must get much more difficult, or does it only get difficult when you move to objective-c/cocoa ?

How long do you think it would take using books like this to learn enough to be able to make a VERY basic app with something other than a string of text outputted :P like a few clickable buttons etc ?

Ste, I sent you a PM mate!

iWoz
Nov 23, 2009, 05:29 PM
Wait, c# is mostly associated with Microsoft platform and toolchain (*). Do you mean C or Objective-C ?

(*)Yes, I know, there is Mono.

I've just ordered this book "The C programming language / Brian W. Kernighan, Dennis M. Ritchie . - 2nd ed "

So hopefully this will get me going :)

icewing
Nov 24, 2009, 12:21 AM
You've got several learning curves in front of you:
1. Learning the basics of C. The book you bought should be a great start.
2. Learning the Cocoa framework for Mac/iPhone - these are frameworks that are built and communicate with the OS to make your life easier and give you lots of pre-built stuff that you use on a regular basis (think windows and buttons for the OS)
3. Learning the SDK - XCode and Interface builder
4. Learning how to develop specifically for the iPhone - there are things available for the Mac that aren't available on the iPhone, and you need to learn how to do some iPhone specific things.

I'm sure others can explain better than I have and can point out some other things as well.

My background is 25 years as a programmer on IBM midrange machines (iSeries/AS400) in languages called RPG and CL. I've played around in the past with C and Java.

For me, I bought Beginning iPhone 3 Programming, and Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X. There are lots of other good books available - may I also suggest that you visit a large bookstore like Barnes & Noble, and look through several books to determine which ones might be helpful for you.

They might be good additions for you. The examples in the iPhone programming book have helped me start getting a handle on things. I'm at the point now where I've moved from just doing the examples in the book to starting to try to write my own apps. I do have to refer to the C books sometimes to review some basics.

Reading the postings in this forum, and googling others, as well as Apple's documentation are key to understanding and going beyond the examples in the books.

This can be both a frustrating and rewarding experience - so get ready for "drinking from a firehose". Good luck!

tutukun
Nov 24, 2009, 12:40 AM
i think its more important to learn the fundamentals of programming + OOP. Once you understand the ideas then learn to work with new language is easy. So read thro your C book, once you feel comfortable with C , grap some book about OOP.

The learning process can be difficult, but its always good to learn something new.
:)

firewood
Nov 24, 2009, 02:31 AM
Im guessing it must get much more difficult, or does it only get difficult when you move to objective-c/cocoa ?

If you learn the hard parts of C, plus get a good understanding of some OOP language concepts, then moving to Objective C will make it easier, not more difficult.

IMHO.

iWoz
Nov 24, 2009, 03:24 AM
Thanks everyone for the feedback,

Just to confirm the correct path of study..

What would you suggest as a next stage of study after the C programming book. I'd like to do this in order to avoid jumping any basic steps.

ste1989
Nov 24, 2009, 01:31 PM
get a good understanding of some OOP language concepts

what would you class as a good understanding of OOP language concepts ? and what are OOP language concepts ?

By google, i found out OOP is object orientated programming, but I dunno what you mean by learn the concepts ?
Surely when I learn Obj-c I would learn them ?

skunkworker
Nov 24, 2009, 01:57 PM
what would you class as a good understanding of OOP language concepts ? and what are OOP language concepts ?

By google, i found out OOP is object orientated programming, but I dunno what you mean by learn the concepts ?
Surely when I learn Obj-c I would learn them ?

I would heavily recommend learn them first conceptually then move onto objc

ste1989
Nov 24, 2009, 02:04 PM
what is "them" though ?
the concepts ?
where would I find info about that?
surely it isnt another book just on the concepts

dejo
Nov 24, 2009, 02:12 PM
What would you suggest as a next stage of study after the C programming book.
"Programming in Objective-C 2.0" by Stephen Kochan (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321566157?ie=UTF8&tag=dejowarecom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=0321566157) should teach you basic OOP as well as Objective-C, as well as just a touch of iPhone development. Then move on to "Beginning iPhone 3 Development" by Dave Mark and Jeff LaMarche (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1430224592?ie=UTF8&tag=dejowarecom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1430224592), where you'll get into the nitty-gritty of iPhone dev.

ste1989
Nov 24, 2009, 02:55 PM
hey again, how long do you guys think I should spend learning C until I learn obj-C or iphone developement books etc.

How long did you spend learning C
As soon as I finish the book "Learn C on the Mac" should I move on, or will I need to keep experimenting for a while to get completely sure of all of C before I move on.

So far I have only learnt about :
main, printf, int variables, and a lot of other simple stuff, Im currently reading over boolean logic.

is there loads more I need to know before obj-c or iphone/mac etc development

Zombie Acorn
Nov 24, 2009, 03:01 PM
hey again, how long do you guys think I should spend learning C until I learn obj-C or iphone developement books etc.

How long did you spend learning C
As soon as I finish the book "Learn C on the Mac" should I move on, or will I need to keep experimenting for a while to get completely sure of all of C before I move on.

So far I have only learnt about :
main, printf, int variables, and a lot of other simple stuff, Im currently reading over boolean logic.

is there loads more I need to know before obj-c or iphone/mac etc development

I would suggest the book that dejo recommended, it doesn't assume that you know C at all, and since you will be dealing with object oriented programming its going to be a different ballgame anyways when you get ready to go to iphone development.

As for if there is loads more you need to know... YES.

ste1989
Nov 24, 2009, 03:25 PM
ok then, complete change of plan, I have now got the programming in objective-c book

so maybe the C i have learnt so far will help me understand it better, maybe it will have been uesless learning it :P
but now im gonna try and learn obj c

tutukun
Nov 24, 2009, 09:44 PM
hey again, how long do you guys think I should spend learning C until I learn obj-C or iphone developement books etc.

How long did you spend learning C
As soon as I finish the book "Learn C on the Mac" should I move on, or will I need to keep experimenting for a while to get completely sure of all of C before I move on.

So far I have only learnt about :
main, printf, int variables, and a lot of other simple stuff, Im currently reading over boolean logic.

is there loads more I need to know before obj-c or iphone/mac etc development
Answer is: as long n as much time as it takes
you sound very eager to jump right into the action. Thats good but it takes alot of time and efforts before you can actually make something that others want to use. So dont think about making anything yet, take it slow, learn n understand everything throughout. You will start making stuff before you nkow it.

uaecasher
Nov 25, 2009, 12:17 AM
Objective-C, Cocoa, xCode explained (http://mozymac.com/forums/f30/getting-started-mac-os-x-programming-89/#post164) this is a short discription of what each or these terms are, I think most people new to programming would be mixed up especially when there are books only for Cocoa or xCode.

the book that I recommend is "Programming in Objective-C 2.0" it does NOT assume you have ANY background on programming, it only teaches you the parts of C that you need, it also teaches you simple iPhone SDK.

tips for learning: be patient, you don't have to memorize things such as the deferent ways to call deferent types of data, with these things you can always go back and check it out from the internet or the book (your not in an exam lol).

The most important thing is to do the examples, play around with them, change values and if you have a problem look it up.

Hope this helps.

firewood
Nov 25, 2009, 01:59 AM
So far I have only learnt about :
main, printf, int variables, and a lot of other simple stuff, Im currently reading over boolean logic.

is there loads more I need to know before obj-c or iphone/mac etc development

You've barely started. You will find knowing C control flow, functions, pointers and data structures will help Objective C not appear to be just opaque random magic.

ste1989
Nov 25, 2009, 10:18 AM
You've barely started. You will find knowing C control flow, functions, pointers and data structures will help Objective C not appear to be just opaque random magic.


Hmm constrasting opinions,
some say not to learn C, just learn Objective-C from scratch.
others say first learn C, and learn Objective-C afterwards

firewood
Nov 25, 2009, 01:03 PM
All the good iPhone programmers I know, know more than one programming language.

ste1989
Nov 25, 2009, 02:32 PM
yeah, I know what you mean, but really, I am learning this not to make killer apps for the app store, more just as an experiment to see what i can do.

If I am solely doing this as a hobby, not trying to be a top app store coder, then would it be best me learning C first or just going straight to obj-c ?

dejo
Nov 25, 2009, 03:01 PM
If I am solely doing this as a hobby, not trying to be a top app store coder, then would it be best me learning C first or just going straight to obj-c ?
If solely as a hobby, jumping straight into Objective-C is fine, if you're talented enough to pick it up. You can always go back and learn more C later, if you're interested. But there's no clear-cut answer that works for everyone, since we're all different.

ste1989
Nov 25, 2009, 03:32 PM
thanks for the advice dejo.
I am using that book programming in objective-c that you recommended if I remember correctly.

I seem to be picking it up fine, I have just finished the second chapter about objects,classes and methods and all that sort of stuff, like the @interface, @implementation and program sections

obviously having learnt all that quickly tonight, I may not remember 100% how to make a program from scratch without looking at the book in a few days time, however I understood it all and could understand a simple program and could make a simple program perhaps checking in the book to make sure i dont leave bits out.

hopefully, i will be able to pick the rest up over time as easily as this tonight :) it is quite enjoyable in my opinion though, to learn it and understand how things work

TodVader
Nov 25, 2009, 09:47 PM
The reason some say not to learn C is because C isn't a OO language. The way you do things in C versus Objective-C is totally different.

On the other side, Objective-C will use lots of C stuff like pointers and loop structures, etc.

If you have to learn how to program + learn C syntax and pointers + learn OO + learn Objective-C which is a very strict language, you better be ready because it wont be easy.

I started programming with PHP and C++. PHP is really great to learn how to program without starting too hard.

Good luck.

NickFalk
Nov 26, 2009, 08:23 AM
If you're new to programming as a whole I'd say learning some basic C is the best place to start. I personally belive procedural programming (like in regular C) is easier to wrap your head around when you're a complete beginner...

iWoz
Nov 26, 2009, 08:48 AM
If you're new to programming as a whole I'd say learning some basic C is the best place to start. I personally belive procedural programming (like in regular C) is easier to wrap your head around when you're a complete beginner...


Thanks! I have ordered programming in C and have also ordered programming in Objective C so hopefully that will give me enough reading for a while. In the meantime I have also downloaded the SDK with Xcode.

VMMan
Nov 28, 2009, 06:05 PM
Most books are no longer replicated by monks writing by hand.

So they're relatively cheap.

Read the Kochan Objective C 2.0 book

If you feel for some reason you need to learn C, then buy any of the popular C books. I doubt you will feel this while reading Kochans book though.

Then read the Mark and LaMarche Beginning iPhone SDK book.


Then use Apple's free developer guides as you start developing your project.

Your total cost in books is about $53.