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FriarCrazy
Aug 3, 2004, 01:24 PM
So a week ago I got a call from some family friends who own a Dell (its an "all right" system running XP). They told me that their computer was running slowly, and they requested that I come take a look at it. When they turned on their machine I could see right away things were not going to be pretty... Oodles of unwanted spyware/malware loaded up into the system tray, they were using AOL (but couldn't connect to it anyhow), and when you tried to open any folder in Windows Explorer the entire desktop including the start bar would refresh and the window would not open. Needless to say they had been using Internet Explorer and as such they had spyware EVERYWHERE. I cleaned out all of the spyware but that wasn't enough. Their Norton was old and Windows Explorer was so messed up that it was simply useless. Unfortunately, you cannot run Norton in Safe Mode, so I figured that a reformat would be best. To back up their files, I went home and got my trusty PB. With the greatest of ease I transferred their files over my makeshift network thanks to the Powerbook’s autoswitching Ethernet port. With my superdrive I burned a DVD of their documents and then I reformatted their computer. Their PC was so messed up that it couldn't even get a fresh IP from their cable modem. My PB got one no sweat. It is truly disgusting how mangled and decrepit some people will let their Windows install become. Windows can be a functional OS, however, most Windows users don't care/understand enough to keep their computer in good working order. This is why Macs > PCs.

Zaty
Aug 3, 2004, 01:37 PM
This is also why viruses, worms, trojans, etc. spread so fast. If the average Windows user protected their PC a little bit better, this problem wouldn't be so bad.

slughead
Aug 3, 2004, 02:22 PM
uh the most likely reason the PC couldn't get an IP is because you had your PB hooked up.

high speed over cable is really flakey in some ways, their DHCP servers are 'th3 suk'.. you should reset your cable modem whenever a node with a different MAC address is added.

Those people should have a router with NAT anyway, that's the only way to get around the crapocity of off-site DHCP and invasion attempts on windows (which happen hourly on cable modems).

Before the reactionaries comment: I use Cable.

You're right about windows being corruptible though. Out of the box it's just one big security hole.

FriarCrazy
Aug 3, 2004, 02:37 PM
uh the most likely reason the PC couldn't get an IP is because you had your PB hooked up.

It couldn't get an IP before the PB was hooked up :D

high speed over cable is really flakey in some ways, their DHCP servers are 'th3 suk'..

Indeed, however as my PB was able to get an IP, the DHCP was not acting up.

I probably didn't clarify as to how messed up the PC actually was. Internet explorer was competely corrupted (wouldn't load), no folder of any kind (including My Computer, Control Panel, etc.) would launch... I suspect they had a virus and that most of their system was infected. I've been fixing PCs for years, I'm no goon... I was just happy that my PB made the job that much easier.

Brother Michael
Aug 3, 2004, 02:56 PM
I take very good care of my PC with Windows on it. I have Zonealarm Pro running and when my trial is up I will buy it. I also at school use the Windows Firewall for extra padding, I do not let anyone through my system. I do not even allow it to return ping requests.

I use Firefox, and since then I have found basically no spyware/malware/etc when I use Adaware and Spybot.

For email I use Thunderbird.

In short besides the God awful GUI, Windows for me is very functional and runs very smoothly.

The only thing that I am bad about is that I do not have a good virus scanner, our school gave Mcafee...but its garbage. It doesn't remove anything even when it finds virus' it says it can't be removed, so I said screw it.

Mike

BTW Friar, I have seen plenty of Windows machines that messed up. People just don't understand these things.

FriarCrazy
Aug 3, 2004, 03:00 PM
I use Firefox, and since then I have found basically no spyware/malware/etc when I use Adaware and Spybot.

Amen to that! Firefox is just a stunning program, I've used it for about a year now (I've been with it since the 'firebird' days). It really does block all popups and it keeps that nasty spyware at bay.

Michael, It seems like people browse the internet "irresponsibly." They click on any popup that appears (would you like to install this free search bar???) and they don't understand that eventually their computer will become bogged down by all of the "free" programs they install. I've seen some PCs that were so trashed that If I owned them I would have thrown them out with the trash!

Ari_0
Aug 3, 2004, 03:13 PM
Yeah Mc Afee does suck. its a resource hog (uses about 5 different resources) and cant even handle some viruses.

What you need is PCcillin, the only good PC anti virus outthere, it only uses 1 resource (compared to Norton's 3), it eliminates the virus from a file while keeping the file intact (unlike Norton which simply hacks off the part of the file that is infected). Its only drawback is the updates (lengthy would be an understatement - 3 to 10 mins) compared to Norton's speedy hack'em codes.

Notice: This does not mean that I condone the use of a PC for anything other than inclusion in a workgroup :D

FriarCrazy
Aug 3, 2004, 03:17 PM
PCcillin eh? I've heard of it but haven't looked into it much... I recommend a lot of people to get virus protection so I am greatful for that little bit of information. I'll do some research!

edesignuk
Aug 3, 2004, 03:20 PM
There is a specific bit of adware that I know of (from bitter experience) called SAHAgent that binds it's self with Winsocks 2.0. If it is removed incorrectly, ie forcibly removed by ad-aware/spybot, it destroys the ability to get an IP address from DHCP. It's a real bitch, it took us ages at work one day to figure out why the ****** running ad-aware was killing the systems network connectivity. Live and learn...

I think their main problem is IE with low security settings, enabling anything to install itself when you visit one of those wonderful websites that constantly come up with that box saying so-and-so plugin is required to view the page (when it's actually just malicious crap). Firefox is the answer :cool:.

Ari_0
Aug 3, 2004, 03:22 PM
Yeah, cool. It isn't free though (PCcillin). But very useful!

edesignuk
Aug 3, 2004, 03:26 PM
Norton Anti Virus 9.0 Corporate rocks the house :cool: Nothing like the ******* "home" versions of their anti virus software.

aussie_geek
Aug 3, 2004, 05:28 PM
Good to see another Mac story!!

aussie_geek

mlw1235
Aug 3, 2004, 07:02 PM
The only thing that I am bad about is that I do not have a good virus scanner

Try AVG Anti-Virus (free) http://www.grisoft.com/

I think it works better than Norton and everything else myself.... ;)

virividox
Aug 3, 2004, 08:15 PM
sigh imma gonna have to wipe my system :( soon im dreading it

FuzzyBallz
Aug 3, 2004, 10:50 PM
Actually, your story only proofs computer dummies should use and stick w/ Apple.

Had the same thing happened a couple weeks back. I did the quick HD clone w/ ghost and had them use FireFox from now on.

me_94501
Aug 4, 2004, 01:43 AM
That reminds me of some fun I had about 3 months ago trying to clense a friend's PC. I was able to help it a little, but it was just too much of a job for me. My suggestion to my friend: throw it off the balcony and get a Mac.

Why is it that PC users ask Mac users for help so much? :confused:

Mav451
Aug 4, 2004, 02:15 AM
That reminds me of some fun I had about 3 months ago trying to clense a friend's PC. I was able to help it a little, but it was just too much of a job for me. My suggestion to my friend: throw it off the balcony and get a Mac.

Why is it that PC users ask Mac users for help so much? :confused:

That's a good question, but that doesn't apply at all in my situation. My Mac friend only helps me with my Mac questions--he has no idea or knowledge on AMD chips/tweaking or overclocking. In turn, I am usually helping family members, cousins, etc. with their computer problems.

Considering the amt. of time I spent on my PC, compared the the time a Mac user spends on a PC, why would a Mac user get asked for help? Wouldn't the tweaker/enthusiast community (niche size is probably about the same compared to the Mac community, but it is growing rapidly toward mainstream) be more likely to be asked?

I knew two extremely vocal Mac users in my dorm during freshmen year. They never helped me with computer problems (when I began to build my own comps). They stuck their nose in the air while wailing on and on about their cinema display. I'm sorry, that's little to no help at all. On the other hand, fellow tweakers/builders actually helped me. That's the difference.

This is not to say that all Mac users are going to be unhelpful, but it is wrong to say that Mac users are always helping PC users. There are a ton more PC users, and those who are smart enough to get around Windows are barraged by their less computer literate friends constantly.

crap freakboy
Aug 4, 2004, 08:04 AM
My sister finally joined the 21st Century this year and after several months of me singing the virtues of Apple she went and bought a PC. Go figure! So within no time at all, 2 days to be precise I got the expected phone call asking for technical support. Although I would have loved to help I have never, yes thats NEVER, touched a M$ PC since I first used a computer in 1988, so suggestions usually ended with 'never had that sort of problem with a mac'. Her main problem was that within 5 minutes of surfing her PC would shutdown without warning. After lengthy questioning she admitted that when a window had 'popped-up' annoucing that said PC was infected with this and that, she had followed its alarmist advice to dl and install its 'crapware'. To compound her mistake she'd done this more than a dozen times. I wouldnt call my sister stupid just naive, probably your average first-time surfer. Suffice to say she wishes she'd followed my advice and bought an eMac, especially after the amounth of ad/spyware/virius she'd managed to stumble across.

zyuzin4
Aug 4, 2004, 08:23 AM
I moved out and a year later returned having to do some major reconstructive surgery on my sisters PC. That thing was so screwed up. I don't let the software on my PC go bad, but I can't help the hardware from breaking :-p

FriarCrazy
Aug 4, 2004, 08:32 AM
I don't let the software on my PC go bad, but I can't help the hardware from breaking :-p

No kidding. One of my drives forgot its filesystem the other day. The NTFS filesystem simply died. I haven't even bothered to reconstruct it, I'll get around to it eventually. It's just such a hassle!

iNetwork
Aug 4, 2004, 09:09 AM
Norton Anti Virus 9.0 Corporate rocks the house :cool: Nothing like the ******* "home" versions of their anti virus software.
A-men. I sysadmin all types of systems and NAV 9.0 is the best. I don't have problems with Winders users (redneck for windows, because that's how ignorant half of them are). In order for anyone to log into my network, the computer is scanned and updated with all the latest patches, otherwise the users cannot log in. If you update your systems with all the patches they're not nearly the problem. Hell, it keeps me employed!! :) Also, MS has some neat software out there to distribute the updates. My 2k3 server automatically d/l's the updates every 30 minutes and distrbutes them across the network to all of my client boxes. It's pretty tight. It beats logging into each box individually and updating them that way.

friarbayliff
Aug 4, 2004, 12:00 PM
I think that this discussion poses the higher question of accountability and the extent to which the technology culture has long since outstripped the capacities of its users. More and more people today may be computer literate, but they are by no means computer competent. I, like most other people in this thread, have encountered countless home computers where the operating system is messed up beyond all recognition due to the ignorance of its users. Though it makes me utterly loathe the quality of the operating system, I still turn my thoughts to the injustice done by the blatant irresponsibility of its users. Half the reason worms, trojans, and mailicious hackers can gain so much power is that fact that there is a seemingly inexhaustable supply of unsecured peon computers out there. Maybe people should become more accountable for the actions of their personal property.

Also, the fact that there is an entire industry devoted to supporting these crappy computers shows why the problems continue. It reminds me of a favorite quote:

"If you're not part of the solution, there's good money to be made in prolonging the problem" - Despair

slughead
Aug 4, 2004, 01:05 PM
By the way, Norton Internet Security has a "Little Snitch" utility, a thing for securing ActiveX, and NAV!

And it requires no Serial Numbers :X

Timelessblur
Aug 4, 2004, 01:37 PM
My sister finally joined the 21st Century this year and after several months of me singing the virtues of Apple she went and bought a PC. Go figure! So within no time at all, 2 days to be precise I got the expected phone call asking for technical support. Although I would have loved to help I have never, yes thats NEVER, touched a M$ PC since I first used a computer in 1988, so suggestions usually ended with 'never had that sort of problem with a mac'. Her main problem was that within 5 minutes of surfing her PC would shutdown without warning. After lengthy questioning she admitted that when a window had 'popped-up' annoucing that said PC was infected with this and that, she had followed its alarmist advice to dl and install its 'crapware'. To compound her mistake she'd done this more than a dozen times. I wouldnt call my sister stupid just naive, probably your average first-time surfer. Suffice to say she wishes she'd followed my advice and bought an eMac, especially after the amounth of ad/spyware/virius she'd managed to stumble across.

Well you sister pick up the blaster virus. A really REALLY easy thing to fix. Just download the critcal updates for windows and boom you are done no more blaster problems. That or just get firewall up that works really well 2. I have general found a lot of the mac commity useless when it comes to PCs. Hell most of the time they dont know what they are talking about when it comes to macs they just go oh there was a new update so this is better because of this blah blah. Dont know jack that the number really means jack. I find it funnier that higher end PC users who builded and play around tend to know more about the little things in macs or know that they are there somewhere.

I tend to find the best place to go for help on any computer is not to a mac user since really they dont know what they are doing. It go to some one who a mess around with windows an PC a lot since they tend to have a better idea what the problem is or have a better guess at what it is and how to fix it. If some glitching on a mac and it seem ask them. They may be able to kill off at least hardware issues it may be or have guess at what piece of hardware it failing. If it not in the OS they will tell you. Around here I am the one who is ask the question on my family and extended family PCs but then again that what I use. It admazing how just simple maniticed keeps all computers really happy.

A mac WILL start having a lot of problems if it not maintain right. Stuff just stops working. Spyware is what kills PCs but just simpleing keeping them up dated works really fine. (hence the reason in SP2 windows updates will automatic be installed by defaulted unless disabled which I will do for my personal computer but heck no to the families computer heck I change it a while ago to automatilcy install them for me)

friarbayliff
Aug 4, 2004, 01:51 PM
A mac WILL start having a lot of problems if it not maintain right

This is very true. One of the primary reasons people have so many problems with computers is that the current technology culture teaches them how to use their technology and not maintain it. Any computer that is neglected will eventually succumb to the crap it is filled with. Luckily for us, macs handle this abuse more readily than PCs. :D

crap freakboy
Aug 4, 2004, 02:30 PM
Well you sister pick up the blaster virus. A really REALLY easy thing to fix. Just download the critcal updates for windows and boom you are done no more blaster problems. That or just get firewall up that works really well 2. I have general found a lot of the mac commity useless when it comes to PCs. Hell most of the time they dont know what they are talking about when it comes to macs they just go oh there was a new update so this is better because of this blah blah. Dont know jack that the number really means jack. I find it funnier that higher end PC users who builded and play around tend to know more about the little things in macs or know that they are there somewhere.

I tend to find the best place to go for help on any computer is not to a mac user since really they dont know what they are doing. It go to some one who a mess around with windows an PC a lot since they tend to have a better idea what the problem is or have a better guess at what it is and how to fix it. If some glitching on a mac and it seem ask them. They may be able to kill off at least hardware issues it may be or have guess at what piece of hardware it failing. If it not in the OS they will tell you. Around here I am the one who is ask the question on my family and extended family PCs but then again that what I use. It admazing how just simple maniticed keeps all computers really happy.

A mac WILL start having a lot of problems if it not maintain right. Stuff just stops working. Spyware is what kills PCs but just simpleing keeping them up dated works really fine. (hence the reason in SP2 windows updates will automatic be installed by defaulted unless disabled which I will do for my personal computer but heck no to the families computer heck I change it a while ago to automatilcy install them for me)

While I agree with you regarding asking M$ advice from a Mac user, I suppose the real point I was trying to make was that the average PC user may not understand the most simple aspects of their hardware/software. I wasn't M$ bashing as I've haven't any experience in that area.
Personally I'd prefer any interface with technology to be as simple as I require it to be. I'm sure that there are loads of PC users out there that have stable, secure and enjoyable experiences with M$ but perhaps they have probably HAD to learn how to keep their greybox in tip-top shape.
I really hate this Mac good PC bad thing, I for one don't care who is the fastest, coolest etc etc. My mac does what I ask of it...I'm happy with the whole experience. 'A mac WILL start having a lot of problems if it not maintain right', have to diagree with you there I'm afraid. Don't repair permissions for a month or so while at the same time installing third party haxies etc, then for sure things will start to go odd.
Bottom line for me is why should I need to become a light tech geek if I want to use a computer for the basics...Macs enable the most novice of users the most freedom to explore without having to become a software engineer...okay perhaps that somewhat overstating the point, but you get my point I hope.
I'm trying to currently convince my father to get an eMac but his wife is pro M$ as thats what she's used to at work. Unfortunately she doesnt seem to realise that her IT department probably do most of the routine maintenance jobs for her, so she may be in for a shock if they go the Gates way. My father is a total computer illterate, never touched one in his life...could you in all honesty, having experience on both platforms, recommend M$ over Mac to someone with no desire to become his own tech support?

cluthz
Aug 5, 2004, 04:51 AM
eThrust is also good,
the advantage with eThrust is that it has two different engines (vet and innoculate)!
That makes it more efficient then other anti-virus apps.

-tb