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View Full Version : Phasing out OS 9, Here Comes Jaguar


arn
Aug 1, 2002, 02:38 AM
MacBidouille (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macbidouille.com%2Fniouzcontenu.php%3Fdate%3D2002-08-01%233157&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&prev=%2Flanguage_tools) posts that Jaguar will no longer contain OS 9 install CD's.

Meanwhile, anecdotal reports from MWNY indicate that Steve Jobs hinted that next year's Macs would not support booting into OS 9. (Classic would presumibly remain supported). Previous rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/06/20020621225247.shtml) had also indicated that the new motherboards would not boot OS 9.

Jaguar is nearing Gold Master... which is aimed at Friday (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/jaguargm.html) per ThinkSecret, despite unsubstantiated reports of 6C115, in fact, being the Gold Master.

zephc
Aug 1, 2002, 03:02 AM
I haven't booted into OS9 since like February or March, and that was to play UT for a 1/2 hour =]

8thDegreeSavage
Aug 1, 2002, 03:06 AM
After i installed 10.1.2 i never looked back..that was in Feb and i havent used 9 once since.:D

bidge
Aug 1, 2002, 03:44 AM
Booted in January and glad I did. The only people I can understand not having OS X is because they can't run it, or they paid good money for software and want to continue using it.

Goodbye OS 9

fbcfabric
Aug 1, 2002, 04:59 AM
boooooo

i boot into os9 every day because i cant do my job without it.

apple? hello? can we have emagic back please? or at least the OSX version of Logic they were just about to release?

so much for buying the original OS 10... turned out to be a right waste of money seeing as pro audio apps seem to be waiting for improvements promised in Core Audio with 10.2.

upgrade my arse. its an expensive update for me.

Zenith
Aug 1, 2002, 05:09 AM
I think the reason behind Apple buying Emagic was to get Logic to OS X. Now that Jaguar is (almost) finished, Emagic can release their OS X version of Logic because Jaguar now fully supports MIDI and pro audio. I think Steinberg will follow shortly with Cubase.

beer
Aug 1, 2002, 05:16 AM
got some hardware which isn't supported by OSX... TV-in card, scanner...

and some nice software... but have to boot OS-9 to use it...

so I guess I ll have to get a new 17'' imac... then I won't have to swith OS-es all the time.... My B&W booting OS-9, the 17''imac booting OS-X..

that should do..

iwantanewmac
Aug 1, 2002, 05:28 AM
New motherboards would or CANNOT boot into OS9? Which is it?
If they cannot boot into OS9 that would be very very very sad.
I still need OS9 and a faster G4. Geesh c'mon apple.......
Is this 1 of your new "bright" moves? just pissing off people. bah

non fiction
Aug 1, 2002, 06:26 AM
I appreciate the frustration of people who still need 9. I am one of them, but apple has got to commit to the new direction, and people need a little incouragement. 10 has been around for a while, and I think apple has been very thoughtful with their program of change. Who cares if you can't boot in 9, you will still be able to run classic in 10, and from what I am picking up regarding jaguar, there should be a speed increase in classic.

I am desperate to buy some new hardware and will be asking work to upgrade all the apps to OSX versions. It is a little annoying to have to fork out more money to stay with apple, but can you imagine a future with OS9. OS9 was going nowhere fast. We are seeing the future, and it will be worth the teething period.

Just my thoughts.....

xelterran
Aug 1, 2002, 06:52 AM
does anyone know when logic or cubase might be released for osx?

QuiteSure
Aug 1, 2002, 06:53 AM
For the people who need to boot into OS9, wait for the prices of refurbished dual processor 1ghz towers to come down and stay with OSX.1.5 and 9.2.2. These machines aren't fast enough to get your work done until all of your software is OSX native? Are you losing money now? I guess I'm missing the point of all this.

mmmdreg
Aug 1, 2002, 07:12 AM
i only use classic for my canoscan n1220u which still doesnt have drivers I think...

psxndc
Aug 1, 2002, 07:31 AM
I just started rebooting into OS 9 for VirtualPC. I have one of the new 700MHz iBooks and it runs vpc 4.x great (I maxed out RAM, natch).

Why vpc 4? Because my company hasn't upgraded to OS X and thus all the software is for 9 (only the design dpeartment use macs). I'm running vpc to learn about *gasp* .NET and since the only classic/9 apps I use are vpc and Outlook 2001, I'm wondering if it's worth getting vpc 5 and just axeing my 9 partition.

As a mac newbie, can I get rid of 9 but run classic apps? I know classic emulates 9, but is it just emulating it w/in OS X, or is it running a virtual machine such that if I delete 9, I've just deleted classic? Would vpc 5 run acceptably on a 700 iBook? I've heard it's pretty awful under OS X. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated.

-p

zorglub
Aug 1, 2002, 07:35 AM
go to " hamrick.com " and download VueScan V.7.5.40.
he's ok for your scan.
z-)

cyberfunk
Aug 1, 2002, 07:39 AM
Come on baby... new macs Aug 5 !!!

bobky
Aug 1, 2002, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by mmmdreg
i only use classic for my canoscan n1220u which still doesnt have drivers I think...

There are drivers now for plugins in photoshop or image converter. check out canon web site.

bobky
Aug 1, 2002, 07:58 AM
Ok slightly off Topic, but does any one know how well the sony ericsson phones work with 10.2? what can you do, edit number etc.....?

Plus I've been using OS 10 since .1, can't go back now, when I have I've crashed my mac trying to multi-task. (forgeting I'm is 9)
:D

gopher
Aug 1, 2002, 08:39 AM
If you need to construct a modem script to work with your cell phone or modem you can copy the AT&F string from the Mac OS 9 modem script to a copy of a Mac OS X modem script and be sure the file type and creator are set to ???? ????. If you have difficulty doing this, E-mail me.

If you have scanners that aren't supported by Mac OS X, many will be supported by Jaguar as it has built-in TWAIN support.
Additionally lots of scanners are supported by the non-crippleware shareware Vuescan by http://www.hamrick.com/

I list under my Apple links for Mac OS X scanners, cameras, and printers that links to what peripherals Apple says are compatible with Mac OS X on http://www.macmaps.com/macx.php

As for Mac OS 9 not being bundled with Jaguar, that is not just a rumor anymore, as a helper on Apple's discussions boards I have direct contact to their moderators and they say that Mac OS 9 currently is not designated to be bundled with Jaguar. Of course if you give Apple enough feedback here maybe you can get it to be bundled: http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

TechLarry
Aug 1, 2002, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by zephc
I haven't booted into OS9 since like February or March, and that was to play UT for a 1/2 hour =]

You must not own a SCanner :)

TL

TechLarry
Aug 1, 2002, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by mmmdreg
i only use classic for my canoscan n1220u which still doesnt have drivers I think...

There were drivers for the N1240U, because I have them.

There was first a beta set, which worked fine, then an 'apparantly' release version I got from a non-US server.

They work fine too. I think the version is 6.5.5 or something like that.

I heard they have taken them down (I bet this is a pre-cursor to 10.2 being released).

I'm sure you can still find them. I think the set covered several scanners, including the 1220U, 670U, and 1240U.

It's a standard TWAIN plug-in.

The installation is bizarre, at best. When installed, all it really does is dump a bunch of files into a folder. When you run the setup program, YOU have to first set it up with the folders you want the TWAIN driver installed into (besides the system TWAIN folder). I copied it to my Canvas 8 and GraphicConverter plug-in's folders, and both use the scanner perfectly.

It needs serious cleaning up, but they DO work.

If you need them, give me your email address and I'll send them to you.

I do believe you can find them on VersionTracker though.

TL

TechLarry
Aug 1, 2002, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by psxndc
I just started rebooting into OS 9 for VirtualPC. I have one of the new 700MHz iBooks and it runs vpc 4.x great (I maxed out RAM, natch).

Why vpc 4? Because my company hasn't upgraded to OS X and thus all the software is for 9 (only the design dpeartment use macs). I'm running vpc to learn about *gasp* .NET and since the only classic/9 apps I use are vpc and Outlook 2001, I'm wondering if it's worth getting vpc 5 and just axeing my 9 partition.

As a mac newbie, can I get rid of 9 but run classic apps? I know classic emulates 9, but is it just emulating it w/in OS X, or is it running a virtual machine such that if I delete 9, I've just deleted classic? Would vpc 5 run acceptably on a 700 iBook? I've heard it's pretty awful under OS X. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated.

-p

MacOS 9 is NOT emulated at any time. When you boot into classic, you are booting a true copy of MacOS 9 that has been 'glued' into MacOS X, so to speak, so it runs in a Window.

Yes, you have to keep the MacOS 9 System Folder and structure because that is what is actually being booted.

TL

JEdiBeavis
Aug 1, 2002, 08:52 AM
I'm within weeks of replacing a Rev C iMac with a couple of eMacs. I was hoping to wait until Jaguar came out so the machines would come with it installed.

I read this about not being able to boot into OS 9 and I get nervous -- does this mean that the pile of kids' software we've been running on the Blueberry iMac won't work anymore?

If that's the case, it's a dealbreaker. Will someone please tell me whether Reader Rabbit is going to have to get a Dell?

arn
Aug 1, 2002, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by JEdiBeavis
I'm within weeks of replacing a Rev C iMac with a couple of eMacs. I was hoping to wait until Jaguar came out so the machines would come with it installed.

I read this about not being able to boot into OS 9 and I get nervous -- does this mean that the pile of kids' software we've been running on the Blueberry iMac won't work anymore?

If that's the case, it's a dealbreaker. Will someone please tell me whether Reader Rabbit is going to have to get a Dell?

All present shipping Macs boot OS 9 with the exception of the XServe.

The eMac (and all current Macs) will boot OS 9 until you hear something otherwise. And from what I understand all current machines still _ship with_ Mac OS 9. Jaguar itself, however, appears like it will NOT. so, nothing's changed for you.

arn

M_T_Air
Aug 1, 2002, 09:11 AM
In regards to the kids games...

They will not kill classic with Jaguar... so you should be able to run those games... also, what versions do you have? because the latest versions of most kid games are OS X compatible including Reader Rabbit. :D

M_T_Air
Aug 1, 2002, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by TechLarry


MacOS 9 is NOT emulated at any time. When you boot into classic, you are booting a true copy of MacOS 9 that has been 'glued' into MacOS X, so to speak, so it runs in a Window.

Yes, you have to keep the MacOS 9 System Folder and structure because that is what is actually being booted.

TL

They will not kill classic with Jaguar... so you should be able to run those games... also, what versions do you have? because the latest versions of most kid games are OS X compatible including Reader Rabbit. :D

Azzy
Aug 1, 2002, 09:18 AM
Not to over-examine things, but could this be a clue that Apple might be moving away from the G4 processors?

TechLarry
Aug 1, 2002, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by psxndc
I just started rebooting into OS 9 for VirtualPC. I have one of the new 700MHz iBooks and it runs vpc 4.x great (I maxed out RAM, natch).

Why vpc 4? Because my company hasn't upgraded to OS X and thus all the software is for 9 (only the design dpeartment use macs). I'm running vpc to learn about *gasp* .NET and since the only classic/9 apps I use are vpc and Outlook 2001, I'm wondering if it's worth getting vpc 5 and just axeing my 9 partition.

As a mac newbie, can I get rid of 9 but run classic apps? I know classic emulates 9, but is it just emulating it w/in OS X, or is it running a virtual machine such that if I delete 9, I've just deleted classic? Would vpc 5 run acceptably on a 700 iBook? I've heard it's pretty awful under OS X. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated.

-p

MacOS 9 is NOT emulated at any time. When you boot into classic, you are booting a true copy of MacOS 9 that has been 'glued' into MacOS X, so to speak, so it runs in a Window.

Yes, you have to keep the MacOS 9 System Folder and structure because that is what is actually being booted.

TL

MacArtist
Aug 1, 2002, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by TechLarry


You must not own a SCanner :)

TL

I have an Epson Perfection 1250 Photo and use it in Photoshop 7 & OS X everyday. Granted the drivers are still beta, but it works great.

As for the retail package of OX 10.2 not coming with an OS 9 install CD, it's understandable. Steve himself laid OS 9 to rest at WWDC. And besides, everyone buying a retail copy of OS X 10.2 will already have an OS 9 install CD.

As to future machines not booting OS 9, this will kind of suck for me. I run OS 9 everyday to play Rogue Spear, and running it in classic just sucks.

TechLarry
Aug 1, 2002, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by arn


All present shipping Macs boot OS 9 with the exception of the XServe.

The eMac (and all current Macs) will boot OS 9 until you hear something otherwise. And from what I understand all current machines still _ship with_ Mac OS 9. Jaguar itself, however, appears like it will NOT. so, nothing's changed for you.

arn

Actually, it looks more like OS X WILL SHIP with MacOS 9, it just won't include a stand-alone BOOTABLE version of MacOS 9.

Apple would never pull the Classic Layer from MacOS 9. It would be corporate suicide.

But, of course, this IS Steve Jobs we're talking about here. Anything is possible.

TL

jayscheuerle
Aug 1, 2002, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by M_T_Air
In regards to the kids games...

They will not kill classic with Jaguar... so you should be able to run those games... also, what versions do you have? because the latest versions of most kid games are OS X compatible including Reader Rabbit. :D

Not a single one of my daughter's games is OSX compatible. Around a third need to be booted into 9 including the Jumpstart Spanish which we bought about a month ago.

It seems to me that both OSX and the Classic environment are works in progress...

nero007
Aug 1, 2002, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by psxndc
I just started rebooting into OS 9 for VirtualPC. I have one of the new 700MHz iBooks and it runs vpc 4.x great (I maxed out RAM, natch).

Why vpc 4? Because my company hasn't upgraded to OS X and thus all the software is for 9 (only the design dpeartment use macs). I'm running vpc to learn about *gasp* .NET and since the only classic/9 apps I use are vpc and Outlook 2001, I'm wondering if it's worth getting vpc 5 and just axeing my 9 partition.

As a mac newbie, can I get rid of 9 but run classic apps? I know classic emulates 9, but is it just emulating it w/in OS X, or is it running a virtual machine such that if I delete 9, I've just deleted classic? Would vpc 5 run acceptably on a 700 iBook? I've heard it's pretty awful under OS X. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated.

-p

I don't care much for 9 anymore, but sometimes I have to boot back into it for VPC5. Although VPC5 has come a long way in OSX speed, it's still lacking behind OS9. I'll have to test in Jag, and let you know how that goes.

nero007
Aug 1, 2002, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Azzy
Not to over-examine things, but could this be a clue that Apple might be moving away from the G4 processors?

That's what I was thinking too.

Wyvernspirit
Aug 1, 2002, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle


Not a single one of my daughter's games is OSX compatible. Around a third need to be booted into 9 including the Jumpstart Spanish which we bought about a month ago.

It seems to me that both OSX and the Classic environment are works in progress...

Unless the program needs to address hardware directly it should boot in classic mode. I have had no problems running even games in classic mode. You might find that the eMac can handle things better than the old iMac. However I do agree to a point that OSX and Classic are a work in progress, most programs not functioning properly in classic are usually the programs fault and not Classics. The software most try to access what it shouldn't, which causes a problem. I love my new quicksilver with OS X. I have only booted it once into OS 9 and that was because I was having cable modem issues and AT&T Broadband "doesn't support OS X."

At any rate get the eMac, it will boot to either X or 9, and try everything in Classic mode and see how it goes. Maybe you'll be surprised and get it to work. Also, check for updates on the web, Maybe the companies were smart and have an OS X update for their programs.

Just MHO.

TylerL
Aug 1, 2002, 10:24 AM
It's absolutely impossible (with the exception of the Xserve) to get a new Mac without Mac OS 9.
There has not been an update to 9 since 10.1 came out last september. There's no need for a 9 installer. Everyone already has one.

...the only problem I can see is people still using 8.1 - 8.6 and want to try out 10.2

blogo
Aug 1, 2002, 10:27 AM
Originally posted by non fiction
I appreciate the frustration of people who still need 9. I am one of them, but apple has got to commit to the new direction, and people need a little incouragement. 10 has been around for a while, and I think apple has been very thoughtful with their program of change. Who cares if you can't boot in 9, you will still be able to run classic in 10, and from what I am picking up regarding jaguar, there should be a speed increase in classic.


when i tried booting up in the first jaguar developer seed, it loaded about 3 times faster then in 10.1.x

jayscheuerle
Aug 1, 2002, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Wyvernspirit


Unless the program needs to address hardware directly it should boot in classic mode. I have had no problems running even games in classic mode. You might find that the eMac can handle things better than the old iMac. However I do agree to a point that OSX and Classic are a work in progress, most programs not functioning properly in classic are usually the programs fault and not Classics. The software most try to access what it shouldn't, which causes a problem. I love my new quicksilver with OS X. I have only booted it once into OS 9 and that was because I was having cable modem issues and AT&T Broadband "doesn't support OS X."

At any rate get the eMac, it will boot to either X or 9, and try everything in Classic mode and see how it goes. Maybe you'll be surprised and get it to work. Also, check for updates on the web, Maybe the companies were smart and have an OS X update for their programs.

Just MHO.

Some of these games require the CD to be in the drive. Sometimes the game does not recognize that the CD is in the drive, even though it's on the desktop. I've even tried running these games from mounted CD images. How you could possibly infer that it's the programs fault (when it runs fine in OS9) and not Classic's is beyond me. The program hasn't changed. How OSX and the Classic environment run it is different than how OS9 runs it. Classic is a limited work in progress and that progress is probably pretty dried up....

originalgeek
Aug 1, 2002, 10:45 AM
Dude, if you're kids games won't run on your new computer, isn't that a benefit? Put the Rev C in your Rumpus room and enjoy a keyboard free of sticky substances.

wilhelmd
Aug 1, 2002, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by M_T_Air
In regards to the kids games...

They will not kill classic with Jaguar... so you should be able to run those games... also, what versions do you have? because the latest versions of most kid games are OS X compatible including Reader Rabbit. :D

But if Apple doesn't ship OS 9 with Jaguar, how will it be able to run Classic?

I can't see classic mentioned at all on Apple's new MacOS X pages.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/requirements.html says:

Third Party Software. The Classic environment in Mac OS X is based upon an installation of Mac OS 9.1 or later (9.2.2 recommended). Most Mac OS 9-compatible applications will run in the Classic environment. If you have any questions, contact the vendor of your product or see our Classic Compatibility list.

This says that Jaguar will support Classic, but it doesn't say that Apple will ship OS 9 alongside Jaguar. So they may stop shipping OS 9 with the new computers (like the new 17" iMac and the upcoming G4's).

sicle
Aug 1, 2002, 10:57 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gopher

"Additionally lots of scanners are supported by the non-crippleware shareware Vuescan by http://www.hamrick.com/"

Non-crippleware? Well, if you like images with $40 written all over them! My Canoscan works with Vuescan but $40 is a bit pricey considering my scanner cost about $120 to start with and it works fine in Classic. If it supports my scanner the price of Jaguar is starting to look a lot more reasonable, especially if they extend the educational discount to Japan where I teach (they haven't done so yet).

The scanners should have been written by Canon in the first place. I won't forget that next time I buy. I don't normally mind paying for shareware, but I'll cry no tears if Apple cuts independent developers out of this niche. You shouldn't have to pay for software for your scanner to work.

robguz
Aug 1, 2002, 11:02 AM
If Apple ditches the ability to boot in OS9, I think it will be years before I buy another mac. I may just eventually get the last, fastet, used mac that can run 9 natively.

I couldn't live without 9 yet, as I need it all the time to do simple things such as move and delete files. For example, there are system files for Nvidia cards which I don't have and I don't want or need these waste of space files. I can't even send the files to the trash unless I am in 9, let alone empty the trash.

Also classic compatability is very poor. I can't even use a scroll wheel in 9 apps! 10.2 fixes neither of these problems. Old games that I still enjoy playing, like Sim City 3000 and Sim theme park refuse to run in classic, again not fixed by 10.2 as of 6C98.

Apple has a long way to go with X to make it as usable as 9, and 10.2 makes little progress. Unless Apple gets their act together and let's me move my own files around on my own single user mac, I am forced to use native booted 9.

It wouldn't surprise me if Apple does this, as Steve Job's new favorite past time is p*ssing off as many die hard mac users as possible in his sado-masochistic game to see how far he can go and still stay CEO.

Azzy
Aug 1, 2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by robguz
If Apple ditches the ability to boot in OS9, I think it will be years before I buy another mac. I may just eventually get the last, fastet, used mac that can run 9 natively.

I couldn't live without 9 yet, as I need it all the time to do simple things such as move and delete files. For example, there are system files for Nvidia cards which I don't have and I don't want or need these waste of space files. I can't even send the files to the trash unless I am in 9, let alone empty the trash.

Also classic compatability is very poor. I can't even use a scroll wheel in 9 apps! 10.2 fixes neither of these problems. Old games that I still enjoy playing, like Sim City 3000 and Sim theme park refuse to run in classic, again not fixed by 10.2 as of 6C98.

Apple has a long way to go with X to make it as usable as 9, and 10.2 makes little progress. Unless Apple gets their act together and let's me move my own files around on my own single user mac, I am forced to use native booted 9.

It wouldn't surprise me if Apple does this, as Steve Job's new favorite past time is p*ssing off as many die hard mac users as possible in his sado-masochistic game to see how far he can go and still stay CEO.

Or you could take the time to learn how to use OSX. Dont be stubborn, its a better OS. You can have 2x as much power, but you have to LEARN. Please, take the time to read on the net, or get a book. There is very complicated stuff about OSX, yes, but most of it is VERY EASY to pick up. Just be willing to learn about it.

If you want to delete system files you can, but you have to login as ROOT. "Why?" you ask? It seems like an extra step, but 1) how often do you want to delete system files? 2) do you want anyone using your computer to be able to delete critical software?
Plus, extra system files dont slow X down like extra extenstions did in 9. You don't need to to delete all that stuff!


I know you are used to 9, and its hard to break away from things you are comfortable with. But trust me, once you learn the differences and get comforable with X, you will never turn back. I havent booted into 9 in months.

If you want to complain about old game compatablilty, you have a pretty poor argument. The rest of your complaints would be solved by simply learning about the OS. DO IT!!

Geert
Aug 1, 2002, 11:37 AM
there are Pro and cons.
Pro is definitely that Apple got all great app makers to port there apps to X.
Con is that all people who bought soft (and hard) just before X, got screwed, because they have to cough up the money once again to be able to use it as native x. Not everybody has the cash to go out and buy every 6 months new soft and hard.

robguz
Aug 1, 2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Azzy


Or you could take the time to learn how to use OSX. Dont be stubborn, its a better OS. You can have 2x as much power, but you have to LEARN. Please, take the time to read on the net, or get a book. There is very complicated stuff about OSX, yes, but most of it is VERY EASY to pick up. Just be willing to learn about it.

If you want to delete system files you can, but you have to login as ROOT. "Why?" you ask? It seems like an extra step, but 1) how often do you want to delete system files? 2) do you want anyone using your computer to be able to delete critical software?
Plus, extra system files dont slow X down like extra extenstions did in 9. You don't need to to delete all that stuff!


I know you are used to 9, and its hard to break away from things you are comfortable with. But trust me, once you learn the differences and get comforable with X, you will never turn back. I havent booted into 9 in months.

If you want to complain about old game compatablilty, you have a pretty poor argument. The rest of your complaints would be solved by simply learning about the OS. DO IT!!

Pretty poor argument? The games don't run in Classic. I'd say that's a pretty good argument. Many games don't run or run very poorly. I paid for them. I like playing them. Classic should just work!

So, to move files I have to re login as root. How is that any better than rebooting in 9. I should just be able to do it! And even when I have logged in as root, which yes, I did learn to do, it then wouldn't let me mess with any of my main user document folders. OS9 does this without any problems whatsoever.

I've also had a bizarre problem many times, such as some quicktime trailers that I want to move from my internal to an external drive. It would copy them and take the time to do so. The icons would show up on the external drive for 1/2 a second and disappear! they refused to be copied no matter where I tried to move them to on that drive. OS9 let's me move files from one drive to another without problems.

Don't you dare tell me I just have to take the time to learn. Yes, I have learned how to download shareware just to empty the friggin trash. I have learned plenty about OSX and no, I do not take kindly to using the terminal, just like 99% of mac users who don't hang around mac forums on the net. I don't really care to take a course in UNIX either.

Nobody uses my computer so I don't care about somebody messing around with my system files. And there have already been a number of times that I'd like to trash some of that junk that I don't need on a Tibook with limited space on it's drive. For example, when I realized Norton X was junk, there was some daemon file determined to be causing problems and I couldn't move it to the trash without booting into 9. Without 9 I am not able to completely uninstall programs that are causing my mac problems! Getting rid of the ability to boot into it is not progress?

Check your condescending attitude at the door please.

MacArtist
Aug 1, 2002, 11:56 AM
For all of you complaining about scanners not having drivers for OS X, there are a few good reasons:

1. most companies were waiting for a suitible host application to run in OS X
(Photoshop is here so that obsticle is out of the way)

2. most of the scanners use a derivative of the TWAIN driver spec.

exerpt from the epson OS X driver info page
At this time, Scanner Mac OS X drivers have not been released because the TWAIN Working Group and Apple have not finalized the specification for OS X TWAIN. No scanner vendor is able to release Mac OS X TWAIN drivers until the TWAIN specification is finalized some time later this year.

With OS 9 pressumably being completely laid to rest, developers will be giving more effort into developing for OS X.

greenfruit
Aug 1, 2002, 12:00 PM
well, apple had better kick quarks ass then.

we need to keep quark untill its osx native.

i can understand the 'use indesign' argument, but it would be to time consuming and expensive for us to swap, and here in the uk not many repro houses use indesign.

lordsinforge
Aug 1, 2002, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by gopher
http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/[/url]

Of course they will not ship 9 with Jagwire, but they will likely still send you a copy with a new machine. They have to. If they don't there is no way to reinstall classic if it dies for some reason.

LS

greenfruit
Aug 1, 2002, 12:18 PM
maybe os9 will install *with* jaguar. possibly as an optional extra.

they have to install 9 with jaguar, theres still LOADS of os9 apps out there. itd be even more mad than making macs unbootable by os9

neilt
Aug 1, 2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by mmmdreg
i only use classic for my canoscan n1220u which still doesnt have drivers I think...

get vuescan from hamrick software. it runs the n1220u no problem.

neilt

chadmacd
Aug 1, 2002, 12:51 PM
They don't need to ship it.

Most of us are getting jaguar on top of 10.1
We all already have 9.2.2

Anyone with a cpu capable of running 10.2 will have atleast 9.1
then you got a 9.2.1 (upgrade) with 10.1

10.2 will support 9, just not include the CD.

Hey windows XP didn't include a windows 98 second edition CD did it?

Nor did a red hat linux 7.3 cd include a 6.5 cd.

Stop whining.
I am using my 3 OS 9 cd's as coasters and wall decoration.

Azzy
Aug 1, 2002, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by robguz


Pretty poor argument? The games don't run in Classic. I'd say that's a pretty good argument. Many games don't run or run very poorly. I paid for them. I like playing them. Classic should just work!

So, to move files I have to re login as root. How is that any better than rebooting in 9. I should just be able to do it! And even when I have logged in as root, which yes, I did learn to do, it then wouldn't let me mess with any of my main user document folders. OS9 does this without any problems whatsoever.

I've also had a bizarre problem many times, such as some quicktime trailers that I want to move from my internal to an external drive. It would copy them and take the time to do so. The icons would show up on the external drive for 1/2 a second and disappear! they refused to be copied no matter where I tried to move them to on that drive. OS9 let's me move files from one drive to another without problems.

Don't you dare tell me I just have to take the time to learn. Yes, I have learned how to download shareware just to empty the friggin trash. I have learned plenty about OSX and no, I do not take kindly to using the terminal, just like 99% of mac users who don't hang around mac forums on the net. I don't really care to take a course in UNIX either.

Nobody uses my computer so I don't care about somebody messing around with my system files. And there have already been a number of times that I'd like to trash some of that junk that I don't need on a Tibook with limited space on it's drive. For example, when I realized Norton X was junk, there was some daemon file determined to be causing problems and I couldn't move it to the trash without booting into 9. Without 9 I am not able to completely uninstall programs that are causing my mac problems! Getting rid of the ability to boot into it is not progress?

Check your condescending attitude at the door please.

Hey, settle down! Im not trying to be condecending. Im just telling you that Its not fair to criticize the OS because you don't know how to use it right. Its been my experience that everyone who complains about OSX just doesnt want to take the time to learn how to use i... Just like you said about not wanting to take a UNIX course, most people have this "I know OS9, so why should I change?" attitude.

I fully understand that the people who dont like OSX say "where did the simplicity go?"
If you were running Apples OS development group, what direction would you take? Would you make the OS like 9, simple but limited and ineffecient? Or would you make it more like X, more complex, yet endlessly customizable, versitile, and stable? You say "No one else is using my computer, so I should be able to delete everything!" Well, does this mean Apple should design an OS based around what YOU do? Of course not. They are shooting for a wide audience (including schools and businesses where system file deletion could be a problem). They HAVE to compete with Windows, whether we like it or not...they have to have similar abilities in their OS. I don' t think its ridiculous for apple to ask its customers to make the change.

The terminal is annoying to you? Well dont use it. I LOVE that the terminal is available, and anyone even familiar with UNIX does too. Again, versitality.

"So, to move files I have to re login as root. How is that any better than rebooting in 9. "

Well, A) you don't really have to re-login you COULD use the terminal (its easier than you think!), or get a shareware app to run things as ROOT. And B) if you do want to re-log in, it's just re-logging in, not restarting and booting into OS9. Much much quicker. Try it! OSX makes it much SAFER to delete system files, and its STILL easy. I couldn't tell you how many people's computers I had to "fix" because they moved their system folder or some critical file held within. This will keep this kind of thing from happening.

Im NOT trying to have an attitude with you. But when people come onto a forum and say "I don't like OSX because I cant play simcity and because I cant delete system files I don't like..." Well then I just have to step in and say something because #1) simcity doesnt matter in the longrun when you are disscussing the ins and outs of Operating systems and #2) because you CAN delete the sytem files.

OSX is a great OS even though its still a toddler. With a bit more work (10.2 and later) Im sure it will top anything out there, with a combination of usability and versitility. You want to stick with OS9, Im not going to stop you. But Im telling you now that Apple knows they would be CRAZY to go back to OS9, and you better learn to swim now while the water is still shallow.

Azzy
Aug 1, 2002, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by greenfruit
well, apple had better kick quarks ass then.

we need to keep quark untill its osx native.

i can understand the 'use indesign' argument, but it would be to time consuming and expensive for us to swap, and here in the uk not many repro houses use indesign.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,429670,00.asp;)

JEdiBeavis
Aug 1, 2002, 01:11 PM
I hope the pros on the board understand just how disquieting stuff like this press release (today) is to the casual user like me:

Developed by Stunt Puppy Entertainment, Thomas & Friends: Building the New Line for Mac (the traditional Mac operating system, not Mac OS X) and Windows is appropriate for ages three and up.

That's from MacCentral today. A BRAND NEW GAME coming out in September FOR THE MAC that doesn't do X.

I can do without the latest and greatest games for myself. But if I have to worry about whether the stuff from Reader Rabbit, Jumpstart, Humungous, etc. is going to run on my brand new eMac I just can't buy it.

Just looking for some hand-holding and assurance I can go ahead and send a few thousand bucks to Cupertino without regretting it later.

Hemingray
Aug 1, 2002, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by Azzy
Not to over-examine things, but could this be a clue that Apple might be moving away from the G4 processors?

Now how do you come to that conclusion? They're still using the G3 for goshsakes, and according to Apple they will still be for a while longer, maybe even at least a year. I guess I don't get why the death of bootable OS 9 software and computers would have anything to do with moving away from the G4. :confused:

Catfish_Man
Aug 1, 2002, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Hemingray


Now how do you come to that conclusion? They're still using the G3 for goshsakes, and according to Apple they will still be for a while longer, maybe even at least a year. I guess I don't get why the death of bootable OS 9 software and computers would have anything to do with moving away from the G4. :confused: ...there's already a Mac that won't boot 9 (without a hack), and it uses G4s. It's called the XServe. I would imagine that anything that uses the new uni-north northbridge won't accept a standard OS9 install.

Azzy
Aug 1, 2002, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Catfish_Man
...there's already a Mac that won't boot 9 (without a hack), and it uses G4s. It's called the XServe. I would imagine that anything that uses the new uni-north northbridge won't accept a standard OS9 install.

Ah. :p

bousozoku
Aug 1, 2002, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by psxndc
I just started rebooting into OS 9 for VirtualPC. I have one of the new 700MHz iBooks and it runs vpc 4.x great (I maxed out RAM, natch).

Why vpc 4? Because my company hasn't upgraded to OS X and thus all the software is for 9 (only the design dpeartment use macs). I'm running vpc to learn about *gasp* .NET and since the only classic/9 apps I use are vpc and Outlook 2001, I'm wondering if it's worth getting vpc 5 and just axeing my 9 partition.

As a mac newbie, can I get rid of 9 but run classic apps? I know classic emulates 9, but is it just emulating it w/in OS X, or is it running a virtual machine such that if I delete 9, I've just deleted classic? Would vpc 5 run acceptably on a 700 iBook? I've heard it's pretty awful under OS X. Any thoughts/help would be greatly appreciated.

-p

On my PowerMac G3/400 with 768MB, VPC 4 and 5 run, but startup in uncomfortable. After that they both run reasonably well. VPC 5 has better response from the menus...some optimization. I haven't noticed any degradation under Mac OS X but it may be that there's enough memory to run it well. Of course, on my newer dp 800, it runs much better. :)

wilhelmd
Aug 1, 2002, 02:07 PM
If Apple decides to make new Macs unable to boot into OS 9, how would they do this?

I see three ways:

1. Apple makes some kind of new hardware that OS 9 does not support (which is more than likely, but someone is bound to come up with a patch or something).

2. Apple rewrites the ROM (or something like that) to make the machine figure out that it is trying to boot into 9, and then stop it.

3. Apple rewrites the ROM so that it will not recognise the OS 9 "blessed" System Folder.

Two of theese methods suggests that Apple will unable the user from booting into OS 9. If the reason why you could not boot into OS 9 was a hardware incompatibility, fine with me. But if Apple actively unabled you to boot into 9 (but the system itself would support it) then... it seems kind of stupid to me.

And another thing I've noticed ... we Mac users are rather touchy about the MacOS X vs. MacOS 9 thingy, aren't we?

GPTurismo
Aug 1, 2002, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by zephc
I haven't booted into OS9 since like February or March, and that was to play UT for a 1/2 hour =]

Why not play the OS X beta? It runs great even on older imacs etc. :)

Unless you like to hear music :\

Di}{iE
Aug 1, 2002, 02:48 PM
The only reason I use OS9 is for gaming. First person shooters run crappy in OSX. First of all, they run slower and choppier. I think the FPS may be limited to 40FPS. Everything runs smoother in os9. Second the mouse drivers for OSX blow! I use USB overdrive, which works fine in the OS, but in a game it seems that mouse acceleration is on and the mouse seems really jumpy and innaccurate compared to OS9. Apple needs to improve the mouse suppport for OSX if it is going to be standalone and for the love of god make the games run better!

iwantanewmac
Aug 1, 2002, 02:58 PM
Some major mistakes are going to be made here :)

Azzy
Aug 1, 2002, 03:05 PM
If you guys want to play games, buy an Xbox or a PS2.

I mean, for the price of a videocard, you can have a gaming system! (and its far more comfortable on the couch than at your desk!) Im 24 and Im tired of trying to keep my computer up to spec for new games. Its just not worth it.

Now I have a PS2 and an Xbox for all that. Ive been enjoying Halo for 3 months now! (and its the best game Ive played in a along time). We own macs...the games are barely available anyway.

On top of that, Im sure all the gaming issues will be fixed as well, but Apple is targeting adult users and not kids who want to play games. We'll just have to wait it out a bit.

bretm
Aug 1, 2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Wyvernspirit


Unless the program needs to address hardware directly it should boot in classic mode. I have had no problems running even games in classic mode. You might find that the eMac can handle things better than the old iMac. However I do agree to a point that OSX and Classic are a work in progress, most programs not functioning properly in classic are usually the programs fault and not Classics. The software most try to access what it shouldn't, which causes a problem. I love my new quicksilver with OS X. I have only booted it once into OS 9 and that was because I was having cable modem issues and AT&T Broadband "doesn't support OS X."

At any rate get the eMac, it will boot to either X or 9, and try everything in Classic mode and see how it goes. Maybe you'll be surprised and get it to work. Also, check for updates on the web, Maybe the companies were smart and have an OS X update for their programs.

Just MHO.

You shouldn't have any cable modem issues. The cable modem and the computer don't really interact in any way. The cable modem simply converts the signals present in your cable line into a standard ethernet signal.

Modems shipped with software for OS9 because OS9 didn't provide native networking for PPPoE (PPP over ethernet - instead of over analog dialup) but OS X supports PPPoE so no software should be neccessary from AT&T.

How did you get it to work? it is working now in OSX, right?

mc68k
Aug 1, 2002, 03:22 PM
It's inevitable. Old computers won't run new OS's, and new computers won't run old OS's. End of story. It's bound to happen eventually.

My only gripe is timing. They seem to be jumping into complete X dominance too quickly IMO. The app/driver support is still not strong enough to completely say goodbye.

Eventually we'll only emulate 9 or run it on old hardware. X is the future.

rEd Eye
Aug 1, 2002, 03:33 PM
Well untill I can open a Nuendo or DP song file in osX,and have every plugin,virtual instrument,and hardware interface I depend on daily be there exactly as if I were running os9,then osX and any machine limited to only osX,is completely useless to me.We're talking alot of money for upgrades,and al least two years from now before I see this being a likelyhood,so to dump users like me is just plain stupid!!!!It would be much easier for me to switch to a windoze system than an osX sysem right now.I think Apple would be biting themselves in the ass to not keep their machines os9 ready for at least two more years!

tychay
Aug 1, 2002, 03:58 PM
I received a tech support question related to this from a switcher friend. His computer did a nasty crash (the blinking questionmark kind) and then boot up into some strange operating system he's never used. He couldn't get OS X up to sync his iPod.

I walked him through how to use the apple menu->control panel->startup disk to set it back to OS X. Since he's a switcher, he never used OS 9.

Perhaps Apple needs a little card to include with their computers. "What to do in the event you boot into OS 9." ;)

Pepzhez
Aug 1, 2002, 04:29 PM
Anyone who runs audio apps knows all too well the current lack of software support for OS X, as well as OS X's severe audio shortcomings (look under the "Audio" section of the OS X forum at the Apple site and read all 200 posts of "List your OS X audio problems here"). Jaguar is promised to fix this, and indeed I hope it does, but I'll believe it when I hear it. I remember Apple tech support promising me that 10.1.5 would magically solve all audio problems and present us with so many dazzling new features. That, of course, never transpired. For now, the fact remains that, thus far, OS X has been absolutely useless for audio - it cannot even playback a simple file without producing unacceptable distortions in the signal path.

Believe me, absolutely no one who is producing serious audio work is using OS X - the software just doesn't exist and the OS itself is not up to snuff. Although Jaguar will be released this month, Emagic (Apple) has not given any timetable for the release of Logic for X, Steinberg has not said when they will release an X version of Cubase, etc., etc. EVERYONE using Macs around the world for audio is using OS 9 (some still prefer 8, though) - they have no choice. BTW, Logic, Cubase and Prosoniq software will not run in classic at all.

I think Apple has made some very questionable decisions in their software releases lately. I guess it is the rush to get them out as fast as possible, but I really wish they would wait until they have gotten them to work properly before releasing them. For example, QT 6 is not compatible with FCP 3 - and Apple has given no indication when a fix for either (does it require an FCP update or a QT update? Who Knows?) will be available, and iTunes 3 does not really support AAC audio. These inconsistencies only serve to confuse and anger consumers, and are clear indications that Apple is now most concerned with getting products out as quickly as possible, never mind the bugs - "we'll fix it later, when we get around to it."

That is quite disappointing, I think, as this is precisely the sloppy, cynical tactic most associated with Microsoft, and one of the big reasons why most of us here are using Macs instead, correct? I can't think of a time when Apple was operating in this manner, and it's sad to see their famous quality control and software/hardware integration fall by the wayside in order to make room for the ubiquitous bottom line. I would much prefer to wait some extra months, for properly functioning and integrated software than getting half-finished, half-baked goods, which seems to be Apple's new business practice.

I will not be buying Jaguar when it is released. Since the introduction of OS X, Apple has proved time and again that each release is flawed in some major ways, requiring one to wait patiently for updates. I am sure that 10.2 will be an improvement over 10.1.5, but experience has taught me that it is perhaps best to wait for 10.2.3 or thereabouts - and that is what I will do. Besides, I am in no hurry. If the pro audio apps I need are still not available, what good does it do me to install Jaguar?

Meanwhile, I'm still forced to boot into OS 9 for audio work.

Wry Cooter
Aug 1, 2002, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by non fiction
I appreciate the frustration of people who still need 9. I am one of them, but apple has got to commit to the new direction, and people need a little incouragement.

Its a bit like being encouraged to dance by having to dodge bullets aimed at your feet, or being encouraged to sit down by having your leg shot off.

Not being able to boot into OS9 is going to KILL new hardware sales. It really doesn't matter how much it might encourage development, there is too much legacy hardware and softwarefor which OS 9 use, booting actually, that still is a daily necessity.

I hardly even use classic, I have been using OS X, but sometimes, I boot into 9.

Di}{iE
Aug 1, 2002, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Azzy
If you guys want to play games, buy an Xbox or a PS2.

I mean, for the price of a videocard, you can have a gaming system! (and its far more comfortable on the couch than at your desk!) Im 24 and Im tired of trying to keep my computer up to spec for new games. Its just not worth it.

Now I have a PS2 and an Xbox for all that. Ive been enjoying Halo for 3 months now! (and its the best game Ive played in a along time). We own macs...the games are barely available anyway.

On top of that, Im sure all the gaming issues will be fixed as well, but Apple is targeting adult users and not kids who want to play games. We'll just have to wait it out a bit.

Azzy, you are inncorrect to assume that only "kids" are gamers. I am 21 and am an avid gamer. There are tons of adults who play games...maybe even obsessively... Anyway, about your comment, I DO own an XBOX and Halo as well as other games. What you dont understand is that Console gaming and computer gaming are in 2 different leagues. The thing is, i CANT STAND FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS FOR CONSOLES!!! Trying to aim something with 2 joysticks is a very stupid idea and ever though I can do it, it will NEVER match a mouse and keyboard! If you tried to put a game like Tactical Ops on the Xbox it would be ruined. That is because it is all about fast reflexes and turning around and chekcing corners and aiming with precision. Can't do that with 2 fat joysticks im sorry. I love consoles for adventure games but for first person shooters they just dont cut it. So my concern is gaming in OSX.

atomwork
Aug 1, 2002, 07:23 PM
10.2 will be so great. I tested the beta and i was amazed about the progress that apple did. Amazing was that apple took this time bug reports seriousy and asked if reported problems were gone now.

This one is fast and kicking:) Love it.

G4scott
Aug 1, 2002, 07:43 PM
Lets face it, It will do nothing for Apple to further develop OS 9. OS 9 has nowhere left to go. Apple's doing this harshly and with no remorse because they want more developers to move to OS X more quickly. True, some software may be stuck in the OS 9 era, and won't make the transition to X, but I'm sure that there are alternatives... Now, If I can just get my umax astra 6400 to work with OS X without having to buy vue scan...

JBytes
Aug 1, 2002, 10:41 PM
Mr. Pepzhez, are you sure you were sober when you wrote your last message? On one hand, you're complaining about the lack of audio software; on the other, you complain about apple's rush to release unfinished software. Bug free programs require time to be tested, which is what Steinberg, Emagic, and MOTU are doing.

In one sentence, you say that you won't be buying Jaguar, which has those audio features you so crave, and which will allow manufacturers to release their audio packages. But a bit later, you complain about having to boot in OS 9 to do audio work. Which is it, pal? You want to wait for 10.2.3, eh? I guess booting into OS 9 isn't so bad for you after all.

And by the way, Steinberg has already made an announcement regarding Cubase SX.
http://www.steinberg.net/news/cubase_sx_mac.phtml?sid=06083444

Gosh, is this really my first post here?
--JBytes

DavidFDM
Aug 1, 2002, 10:45 PM
Just wanted to say that $40.00 for VueScan is a really good deal if you are unhappy with your scanner company's drivers. I was displeased with Nikon's software that drives my Coolscan III. The colors weren't very accurate and the quality was just terrible. I knew that the scanner was capable of more but the Nikon software wasn't up to it. Then I found VueScan and was very pleased with the results it gave me. The colors were vivid and reasonably accurate. The real bonus was the software also recognized my Linotype-Hell flatbed. The developer is constantly updating the software and is very reactive to customer issues.

My 2˘.

Pepzhez
Aug 1, 2002, 10:56 PM
Well, I don't think anyone *wants* to stick with OS 9 - I don't think that they do. The frustrations everyone has concerns the fact that a properly functioning OS X and compatible apps have been lacking, and it does seem silly that so many of us are still forced to boot into OS 9 in order to do our work when OS X has been out for over a year now!

We were promised a modern OS, paid for it and found out that it was nowhere near finished. Free Linux handles audio - not user-friendly or intuitive, but works once you figure it out - a thousand times better than OS 10.1.5. But then Windows 95 handles it better than 10.1.5. So it is no wonder that many people are frustrated, having been beta testers for Apple, and are now being asked to pay for OS X all over again (and this Jaguar may or may not solve these serious problems.)

Apple has managed the migration to OS X horribly (understatement). No matter how much you may like the company, you have to admit that this whole affair has been handled so ineptly, confusedly and wretchedly, it makes you wonder what the hell is going on in Cupertino.

Apple does know that much, I am sure. Cutiing off OS 9 support at a time when OS X is still barely functional really would be cutting their own throats - and they should realize that. But maybe Jobs really is that insane now. This is, after all, the man who introduced flower power imacs and fostered onto the public an incomplete OS X that is less functional and much slower than any free Linux distro. I guess time will tell, but I think Apple really needs to get their bearings soon or I don't know what their future will be like.

Pepzhez
Aug 1, 2002, 11:09 PM
JBytes, I said that I will believe Jaguar's audio promise when I hear it. I do not have Jaguar, have never tested any of the betas, know no one who has. I base my assessments on experience, and not what is promised on the Apple product pages. Now read what I wrote: Apple had promised that 10.1.5 would fix the problems and it didn't; now they say Jaguar will fix it. I hope it DOES fix the problem (and didn't I write that as well?), but meanwhile I retain a healthy skepticism. And why shouldn't I?

So what is contractictory about that? I would much rather be using OS X - I don't want to have to be booting into OS 9 for anything.

And I agree with you 100% on bug free apps. Again, read what I wrote. I said that I would rather wait for a functioning app instead of getting a rush-released, untested beta - which is what Apple has in fact released several times lately: OS X 1.0-1.5, FCP 3 for OS X (miserable performance in OS X - which Apple themselves admit to, advising you to run it in OS 9 if you are doing serious work).

Emagic, Steinberg, et al. were all too aware of OS 10.0-10.1.5's uselessness as an audio engine, which is why they didn't toss out carbonized versions of their apps right away. And I am happy they had the integrity to wait until they felt they could do it right. Let's hope that Jaguar is truly the solution Apple says it is.

ibjoshua
Aug 1, 2002, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Pepzhez
Apple has managed the migration to OS X horribly (understatement). No matter how much you may like the company, you have to admit that this whole affair has been handled so ineptly, confusedly and wretchedly, it makes you wonder what the hell is going on in Cupertino.

I have to seriously question this statement.
Anyone who thought 10.0 was to be a finished system was dreaming. Apple brought it out as way of showing that they were actually working on a serious product. 10.1 was a great improvement and I expect 10.2 to be even better.
Apple has not abandoned OS 9 they have basically said "that's it," they're not doing any more work on it and the market (yes they're driven by the market) is not big enoughto make it worth making new hardware to support booting into OS 9.

Look, this isn't personal but some people need to wake up. Stop acting so surprised, OS X is not new. Apple has not just sprung this on us. We have been given a brand spanking new idustrial strength operating system at a pretty low price.
I personally love it. If you have apps that only run well in OS 9 stick with them. No one is going to make you upgrade your system.


josh
out

Wry Cooter
Aug 2, 2002, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Pepzhez


Apple has managed the migration to OS X horribly (understatement). No matter how much you may like the company, you have to admit that this whole affair has been handled so ineptly, confusedly and wretchedly, it makes you wonder what the hell is going on in Cupertino.



I dunno. Compared to the progress Copland was making, reading weekly reports on Macs future OS plans in MacWeek for several years, the roll out of OS X so far in comparison seems as though it has happened overnight.

Guess we could have gone with BeOS, but then you wouldn't even have networking by now.

Right now, I don't see Apple as the hold up. About all they could do to speed things up is send a coding team into every developer out there and handle the transition to carbon and cocoa for them, gratis.

Wry Cooter
Aug 2, 2002, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by i_b_joshua


Apple has not abandoned OS 9 they have basically said "that's it," they're not doing any more work on it and the market (yes they're driven by the market) is not big enoughto make it worth making new hardware to support booting into OS 9.



Thats the crux. Its not that they really have to bend over backwards to make the new hardware still boot in OS 9. If anything, they seem more likely to crippling the hardware so it will not boot in OS 9.

Sort of stern measures, to kick developers in the arse, but its stupid. They are merely going to lose developers and clients playing hardball at this point.

If a new tower that could only boot into OS X only (classic was still available) was available at MWSF, yet Xpress, ProTools etc (legacy app, drivers of your choice here), were not carbonized yet, would you buy that tower?

I can't budget overnight replacement of every professional application I own on TOP of a new hardware purchase.

eric_n_dfw
Aug 2, 2002, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by G4scott
Now, If I can just get my umax astra 6400 to work with OS X without having to buy vue scan...
Get VueScan, or get a new scanner (hehe - I did both)

A while ago I posted this, it's an email Umax sent me in June:
from support@umaxcare.com
Question’s about OS X Support: Will my Umax scanner work with OS X? What
Umax scanners will work with OS X?

Umax Technologies, Inc. will support its current professional-grade scanners
under Apple’s new OS 10.X operating environment. The models included are:

PowerLook III
PowerLook 2100XL
PowerLook 1100
PowerLook 3000

Umax currently has made no commitment to supporting older professional
models under OS X at this time. Also, no consumer-level (Astra models, or
older consumer-level) scanners will be targeted for support under OS X.

Drivers for the current line-up of professional scanners are currently in
Beta-Development and are not currently available to the public. Please
continue to check our web site for updates to this information as it becomes
available.

red cap
Aug 2, 2002, 11:37 AM
im really tired and in the bad mood, so...

forgive me, if im asking too much, but our company need os 9!!!!!!
For you americans i guess, its quite simple to change the os isnt it!

If im not getting os9 with new powermacs, isay **** you, apple. In our little country in Europe none is using osx for work! Everyone is using os9.x. Why.:mad:

Because we use fonts with special characters and apple is not providing us a system with our keyboard, so we have to use our selfmade keyboard system and every program is using it!!!

ALSO, in january we bought 10 adobe design collections for os9. So why are you so ****ing annoying with> os 9 is dead...we dont need it...especialy that guy crying about games for little kids...shut the **** up@@$%, MAN.

STOP PUSHING.

iwantanewmac
Aug 2, 2002, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by red cap
im really tired and in the bad mood, so...

forgive me, if im asking too much, but our company need os 9!!!!!!
For you americans i guess, its quite simple to change the os isnt it!

If im not getting os9 with new powermacs, isay **** you, apple. In our little country in Europe none is using osx for work! Everyone is using os9.x. Why.:mad:

Because we use fonts with special characters and apple is not providing us a system with our keyboard, so we have to use our selfmade keyboard system and every program is using it!!!

ALSO, in january we bought 10 adobe design collections for os9. So why are you so ****ing annoying with> os 9 is dead...we dont need it...especialy that guy crying about games for little kids...shut the **** up@@$%, MAN.

STOP PUSHING.



DOn't forget....some providers don't even support OSX...
I can't use my damn ADSL with X yet!!!!!!!
it just doesnt work!!!!!!

Wry Cooter
Aug 4, 2002, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by JEdiBeavis


I can do without the latest and greatest games for myself. But if I have to worry about whether the stuff from Reader Rabbit, Jumpstart, Humungous, etc. is going to run on my brand new eMac I just can't buy it.


Indeed, not creating an enabler to boot into OS 9 on a new mac is not going to help educational sales one iota, where they have many pieces of continuably viable and tested educactional progams that may call for booting into os 9. Although I see no reason Reader Rabbit and the like cannot viably work in classic, there are other apps- Font management, plug ins,security, old printer drivers, multilicense dongles hardware and software, Quark, that may call for a boot, at least on occasion, into OS 9.

I would rather they make OS 9.2.3 be a faster version of classic- at least then, if one needed- one could use older versions of OS 9 as the classic that is being married to os x for that boot.

Right now, classic for me is such a labyrinth of extentions that my version of classic is os 9.1, not 9.2.2. I keep OS X and 9.2.x on their own drive, and OS 9.1 on its own drive.

mmmdreg
Aug 4, 2002, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by zorglub
go to " hamrick.com " and download VueScan V.7.5.40.
he's ok for your scan.
z-)

I swear that used to be shareware and put like watermark on your image if you didn't register...is it still so?