I have given up with Windows

[Mach D]

I went to the Apple Store yesterday and I was playing with the Dual G5, the iMac and the 15" Powerbook for over an hour. I then come home to do some homework on my Windows XP machine and spend almost 2 hours fixing an error I keep getting preventing me from receiving my email only to find out the "fix" removed the email I needed to begin with.

I'll be taking donations as i'm a starving college student.

[continuum]

I only work on XP when I have to. At work. Switched to Mac 6 months ago. I love it!

[FuzzyBallz]

Heh, maybe if you aren't so "fill in insult", you wouldn't be complaining about a simple PC problem. Some people will have problems no matter what system they use.

[Mach D]

Heh, maybe if you aren't so "fill in insult", you wouldn't be complaining about a simple PC problem. Some people will have problems no matter what system they use.

Every Mac i've ever used has never had problems. Every PC I have worked on has been nothing but. I bought this thing because it was cheaper. I got what I paid for.

[kronos2611]

I've managed to switch a few friends over to the Mac platform - and they all say the same thing (un-prompted!):

"It just works"

[stoid]

Heh, maybe if you aren't so "fill in insult", you wouldn't be complaining about a simple PC problem. Some people will have problems no matter what system they use.

Heh, maybe if you aren't so "fill in insult", you'd realize that time and again the average consumer switching to Mac has had no where near the same number of problems as they did before.

Go find me a group of people that has switch Mac OS X to Windows XP, and 'loved' their new computing environment and said, 'this is how a computer SHOULD work.'

[solvs]

Heh, maybe if you aren't so "fill in insult", you wouldn't be complaining about a simple PC problem. Some people will have problems no matter what system they use.
I know all about PCs. I've used them for years, went to school to learn more about them, and usually can fix things that most others cannot. Doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't be having these problems in the first place.

Every time I hear the argument that Windows works just as well as a Mac... if you know what you are doing... I think of the irony of that statement and wonder if most people just don't get it. Apple isn't perfect, but Macs are a lot easier to use and I've had far fewer problems on OS 10 than any version of Windows. OS 8 and 9 notwithstanding (though 9, if not loaded full of stuff, can still be pretty good). Even if you know what you are doing, Windows can be a pain way more than even if you don't know what you are doing and use a Mac.

[MacUser1]

up untill this school year, i've been windows free for about 6-7 years. now in college, the school gave us all T42's, and while it's a great machine, windows is absolutely horrible. i use it mainly for homework and i use my powerbook whenever i can. on my thinkpad, i've already had to deal with a blue error screen (i don't think it was a BSOD) and countless other problems. just unbelievable how "spoiled" i've been with my powerbooks and the mac operating system!

[Mach D]

up untill this school year, i've been windows free for about 6-7 years. now in college, the school gave us all T42's, and while it's a great machine, windows is absolutely horrible. i use it mainly for homework and i use my powerbook whenever i can. on my thinkpad, i've already had to deal with a blue error screen (i don't think it was a BSOD) and countless other problems. just unbelievable how "spoiled" i've been with my powerbooks and the mac operating system!

Speed-wise, how does the T42 compare to your Powerbook? The T42 isn't a weak machine by any means.

[bdomz]

Windows XP runs great as long as you are willing to reformat your computer every 3 months. In between these scheduled reformats just pray that you don't ever get a dreaded Stop Error because then you'll lose all your data and have to reinstall anyways. I can't believe I payed $99 for this garbage and actually thought it was so much better than Windows 98.

[earthtoandy]

Windows XP runs great as long as you are willing to reformat your computer every 3 months.
hahahah so true. And WIndows users accept it so much that when anyone says "i am having blah blah" problem they just say "just format it" and the people accept that be cause they expected it anyway.

i am no newbie to windows and i have to reformat my drive everynow and then. hell without constant upkeep the files just get so out hand it seems easier then trying to clean it up. my girlfriends 1 year old computer is basically dead and i have try a format. file after file keeps coming up inaccesable and corrupt. good times windows.

so many claim "you can do more with windows". theres a difference between being able to do more and HAVING to do more.

[tateusmaximus]

yup. i format my windows internet machine (AMD one) every month. and i format my other (P4 one) every 6 months. even then the internet-free machine doesnt really need it i just like to do it every now and again. the internet machine however is dying for a format after a few weeks!

thats why im saving for a mac and keeping my pcs AWAY from the ethernet ports!!!

freakin windows! gotta have one computer for internet and one for eveything else!

[Savage Henry]

Go find me a group of people that has switch Mac OS X to Windows XP, and 'loved' their new computing environment and said, 'this is how a computer SHOULD work.'

The Win to Mac transition has always seemed the easier and most rewarding route.

I managed to get my Dad (an old-guard stalwart of X86 since Windows 3.1) to opt for an eMac, and he is amazed how easy the switch was, how reliable the software and hardware is and how much more convenient the secure environment of Mac actually feels.

[edesignuk]

Windows XP runs great as long as you are willing to reformat your computer every 3 months. In between these scheduled reformats just pray that you don't ever get a dreaded Stop Error because then you'll lose all your data and have to reinstall anyways. I can't believe I payed $99 for this garbage and actually thought it was so much better than Windows 98.
I haven't rebuilt my PC since I put it together almost a year ago (WXP Pro), and it's just as fast as it ever was....which is very! (3GHz, 1GB, 9800, SATA). I have never had a BSOD. Buy good hardware, not cheap *****, make sure it is all fully compatible, and has proper XP drivers, and you won’t have problems….oh, and don’t use IE!!!

[SiliconAddict]

I've never understood why people have so many issues in Windows and I seem to have a virtually flawless "experience". The only conclusion I can come to is I'm a geek and I do tech support for Windows so I know its quirks well enough not to get trapped in them. :confused: *shrugs* I don't know. Maybe I'm just lucky.

[tateusmaximus]

I've never understood why people have so many issues in Windows and I seem to have a virtually flawless "experience". The only conclusion I can come to is I'm a geek and I do tech support for Windows so I know its quirks well enough not to get trapped in them. :confused: *shrugs* I don't know. Maybe I'm just lucky.

so share the love!
whats the biggest tip you could give windows xp sp2 based computers connected to the internet?

[SiliconAddict]

The Win to Mac transition has always seemed the easier and most rewarding route.

I managed to get my Dad (an old-guard stalwart of X86 since Windows 3.1) to opt for an eMac, and he is amazed how easy the switch was, how reliable the software and hardware is and how much more convenient the secure environment of Mac actually feels.

My only concern with switching is the importing of my itunes tracks.
I've got my iTunes 4 Music Library.itl, and my iTunes Music Library.xml
The thing I don't get is my tracks are going from a file structure of
C:\My Documents\My Music\iTunes\iTunes Music\
to whatever the heck pathing Apple uses for their home dir. In windows it pretty easy. Simply move those two files over to the new, in my case existing, computer. Start up iTunes and away I go.
How do I import the songs, the ratings, my playlists, etc without needing to repath the few thousand tracks I have. :confused: Sorry for getting off topic.

[SiliconAddict]

so share the love!
whats the biggest tip you could give windows xp sp2 based computers connected to the internet?


Wait another 3 months for vendors to test all their software and release patches for their products before upgrading to SP2.
If you already upgraded to SP2 and are having specific problems on an app go into windows firewall software and make sure you have the exe for the app included in the exception list so the app can flow through the firewall.
If you are still having some funky problems check your event logs by right clicking on My Computer on your desktop and selecting MANAGE. In the left hand pane look for EVENT VIEWER. Expand the view and look for the items marked APPLICATION and SYSTEM. If there are specific error occurring on your system they will most likely be listed there. If you open up a specific event item you will see 3 buttons on the right side. An up arrow, a down arrow, and a copy button. Click the copy button and go to http://www.eventid.net/parseevent.asp
Paste the event into the window and click search. eventide.net is a very nice resource for tracking down errors and what they apply to. Its somewhat of an open forum. If someone else has had your problem they generally post a solution on the site. Very useful.
I expect MS to release some updates for SP2 in the next few month along with an SP2a release. MS tried and failed badly on this release. And to a certain extent I think they knew this was going to happen. What you thought they were actually fixing bugs with all those SP delays? Na-ah. They were working on compatibility issues. Guaranteed. MS is in a bind when it comes to security. If they lock it down too tightly they are going to break apps left and right. If they don't people are going to complain about MS not caring about security. Call it revenge of the Karma for MS not taking security seriously for the last…well…how long as MS been in business?
I've bitched about Apple's patches and software updates and how they have screwed people's computers over. I'm definitely going to have to append any future comments of that sort with MS is no better because SP2 has screwed up people boxes in a spectacular fashion. If you haven't BSODed with SP2 consider yourself lucky. I know two friends who have fragged their systems with SP2. One with a total BSOD that he was able to go into safe mode and uninstall the SP and was fine. The other who even after the rollback, well his computer hasn't been the same since.

[Abstract]

I've never understood why people have so many issues in Windows and I seem to have a virtually flawless "experience". The only conclusion I can come to is I'm a geek and I do tech support for Windows so I know its quirks well enough not to get trapped in them. :confused: *shrugs* I don't know. Maybe I'm just lucky.

I'm not a geek and know nothing about tech support, and yet I have never reformatted my Windows PC (AMD Duron 650 MHz, 256MB of RAM, 64MB Geforce 4) that has been connected to the net for 3 years, and it runs very fast. It feels only a tad slower than my 12" 1GHz Powerbook, and my PB has more RAM.

Like edesignUK, I've also never had a BSOD, and I've never done a reformat, and this is after doing quite a few updates, say from Win98 to WinME, to WinXP. I've had spyware problems, and got the same 3 viruses over and over again, but removal wasn't difficult, and Adaware took care of spyware. I used Kazaa heaps, too, and nothing bad happened with that.

So :p

[garybUK]

Most of the problems, although aided by design flaws, in Windows are down to the user, If you click yes to a popup saying 'you have won a holiday' your asking for it....

I have a copy of Windows on my server and a bootdisk to re-install windows from the server over the network, this is very handy when my sister knackers up her laptop!

I also use filters on the internet to block popup's / worms and I keep a upto date copy of Symantec Anti-virtus (corporate) on all my machines.

If you have decent hardware, good solid drivers, a good anti-virus program and keep windows updated then you shouldn't have any problems at all.

[DavidLeblond]

I disagree that WinXP is fine as long as you don't download attachments etc. My first big problem with Windows XP was installing the Backup program shipped with XP. It wasn't available in the XP installation, but it was in the ValueAdd folder. After installing it, my PC would bluescreen on bootup, even when booting in safe mode. I called MS and all they could tell me was to reformat and that it was my fault for installing unsupported software.

And that was only the beginning of my problems. The major problem I have with Microsoft is that they're sloppy. At work we develop some of our applications on Microsoft Access (although I'm trying to steer them toward .NET.) Access 2003 is the single buggiest application I have ever used. It seems to work/not work at random. We recommend to our customers that they don't use it, but unfortunately a lot of them have to because of their various corporate standards. Access has gotten worse and worse since Access 97, which IMHO was a solid program.

Sorry that this reply became an Access 2003 rant... I'll give you 3 guesses what I'm working on right now...

[Savage Henry]

Most of the problems, although aided by design flaws, in Windows are down to the user, If you click yes to a popup saying 'you have won a holiday' your asking for it....
An out the box Mac is untroubled by such pop-up annoyances, users need no prior training to be 'safe'.

I have a copy of Windows on my server and a bootdisk to re-install windows from the server over the network, this is very handy when my sister knackers up her laptop!
My lady (less techie than me by a long way) has only ever needed a battery change on her iBook; bootdisks and re-installations are unheard of, and long may that continue.

I also use filters on the internet to block popup's / worms and I keep a upto date copy of Symantec Anti-virtus (corporate) on all my machines.
Macs scoring blanks on popups,worms,virus troubles etc, Again, the user would not need prior experience or heed any warnings to be happily going about their business.

If you have decent hardware, good solid drivers, a good anti-virus program and keep windows updated then you shouldn't have any problems at all.
Again, available out-the-box on every Mac, practically guaranteed as such.

It really isn’t down to the users, it is definitely the whole Windows environment. If my washing machine broke down as often as my peecee at work, I’d end up choosing to go down the river and bang my pants against the rocks.

[asphalt-proof]

I switched exactly one year ago. I was really concerned about it because before that time, I had ZERO experience with a Mac. I use a PC at work and am fairl;y proficient getting around on it. THe out-of-the-box experience was very nice for the Mac though setting up the internet connection for me was a bit confusing. (Mostly because I didn't know what kind it was.)
That said, I have to say that when I got my new PC from work with XP I, at first, had several problems with some programs that had to be fixed. But then all was smooth. 1 to 2 crashes a month but nothing severe. I agree with the comment about no IE. That program is just a POS. When I first got the XP I immediately downloaded Mozilla. Its the only way to fly. Excellent browser.
I can't imagine not having my Mac now that I have it for my home. Good luck and hope that you get a Mac soon. Especially if you can get it before the Cram and Jam promo ends. Well worth the money.
Pete

[SiliconAddict]

An out the box Mac is untroubled by such pop-up annoyances, users need no prior training to be 'safe'.

Neither do windows users. All they need to know is DON'T USE INTERNET IMPLODER. http://www.spreadfirefox.org/safer.gif Spreadfirefox.org (http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=4774&t=45) Install and you are already 80% safer then before. Yes windows users shouldn't need to know this but that is a moot point. The fact is if you are going to use windows you damn well better know something about security and what to do to secure your system or you are screwed. I liken it to driving. You know where the wheel, accelerator, clutch, and breaks are. For windows you need to know this. For a Mac? its like sitting in the backseat while someone else is doing the driving. Both are legit ways to get where you are going. Macs just do it in style.


Macs scoring blanks on popups,worms,virus troubles etc, Again, the user would not need prior experience or heed any warnings to be happily going about their business.

And as I've told several other people spy/adware makers don't target safari for one reason. They are a minority. There is no reason to target a browser that consists of less then a handful of webpage hits.
Time will tell if this notion holds true now that in some est firefox is eating away at IE's market share big time. Some sites have reported that their hits consist of 18% FireFox and growing. I know for a fact that I still get the occasional javascript in FireFox from time to time. There is a possibility of developers creating a work around for the popup blocker. There always is.


It really isn’t down to the users, it is definitely the whole Windows environment. If my washing machine broke down as often as my peecee at work, I’d end up choosing to go down the river and bang my pants against the rocks.

And again I don't get why people are having so many problems in Windows. I've used it for years. Since migrating to the NT kernel (Going from NT to 2K, to XP.) I can honestly say I've BSOD's less then 10 times and 60% of that was because I was dicking with the drivers. Getting a round driver to fit into a square hardware slot so to speak. The rest. Well I know one was because I was using a beta version of Windows XP SP2 and it didn't like the WIFI NIC I had. Another was I was cycling between external monitor, LCD, and TV out too fast and all of a sudden DSOD with the error being the video driver .dll and last week I BSODed because I was trying to get a Windows XP audio driver to work on a newly installed copy of Windows Server 2003. (I've found that 2003 is much more stable then 2000 and XP.) One of the provided apps didn't like that I was running 2003 and choked on boot after installing the driver. The rest? Most if not all were because I'm a geek. I like putting the OS up on some stands, rolling under it and see how it ticks which occasionally causes the engine to sputter and die. :)

My 4 tips of stability for windows:
FireFox -> Auto Update -> Firewall -> Norton AV Corp Edition.
And to a lesser extent something other then MS Lookout. (aka MS Outlook.)

And those 4 tips aren't that hard to understand by the average user.

[grapes911]

Format every couple of months? You've got to be kidding me. I'm going on 3 years. I never even restart unless an installation requires it (and sometimes I even get around that). I have zero problems. I have norton, adaware, and some other cleanup programs scheduled to run regularly, but I wrote scipts to handle that at night when it won't bother me.

[earthtoandy]

i wouldnt use adaware if i were you...creates as many problems as it solves. try spybot search and destroy

[grapes911]

i wouldnt use adaware if i were you...creates as many problems as it solves. try spybot search and destroy

I've been using adaware for a few years now with no problems what so ever.

[earthtoandy]

well none you know of... but as a hear it has its own spyware involved. it also kills system resources wheras spybot doesnt. its a much better program

[Counterfit]

Neither do windows users. All they need to know is DON'T USE INTERNET IMPLODER. http://www.spreadfirefox.org/safer.gif Spreadfirefox.org (http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=4774&t=45) Install and you are already 80% safer then before. If it isn't pre-installed, it's not out of the box :rolleyes:

[grapes911]

well none you know of... but as a hear it has its own spyware involved. it also kills system resources wheras spybot doesnt. its a much better program

There isn't any proof that it has its own spyware (at least that I've seen). It's only speculation. Please someone, give some real proof if you've got some. Don't just say, "yea it does."

Eats system resources? I've never had a problem with that. For the last year or so, I've been automatically running it at night, but I never had a problem even when I'm using the pc at the time.

I've never used spybot. I hear good things, but I'm from the school if it ain't broke don't fix it. Adaware keeps my pc running all the time. I have no reason to switch.

[DavidLeblond]

well none you know of... but as a hear it has its own spyware involved. it also kills system resources wheras spybot doesnt. its a much better program

Spybot isn't without its annoyances. Have you ever had the "Spybot S&D Resident" application open while you're trying to do something like install a Windows Service Pack?

[grapes911]

Spybot isn't without its annoyances. Have you ever had the "Spybot S&D Resident" application open while you're trying to do something like install a Windows Service Pack?

What does this "Spybot S&D Resident" do?

[earthtoandy]

have you tried to have ANYTHING open while do a windows service pack? damn service pack killed my girlfriends computer.

[edesignuk]

Spybot isn't without its annoyances. Have you ever had the "Spybot S&D Resident" application open while you're trying to do something like install a Windows Service Pack?
Why in the world would you have ANYTHING open while installing a SP? Let alone Spybot :rolleyes:

[DavidLeblond]

What does this "Spybot S&D Resident" do?

I'm not sure of everything that it does, but the annoying part of it monitors the registry and complains every time a program tries to modify it. So when you are installing a service pack you have to click "Allow" until your finger goes numb.

Of course you can turn it off easily, which is good because its annoying as hell.

[DavidLeblond]

Why in the world would you have ANYTHING open while installing a SP? Let alone Spybot :rolleyes:

Its a resident program. Using the mac has lulled me into not killing every running process before installing a piece of software. Besides, the whole point in restarting the computer after you install is so you don't HAVE to go kill every program.

[earthtoandy]

Why in the world would you have ANYTHING open while installing a SP? Let alone Spybot :rolleyes:
thank you. i felt like i was taking crazy pills for a second

[grapes911]

Why in the world would you have ANYTHING open while installing a SP? Let alone Spybot :rolleyes:

This is a really important thing. Many people install things esp patches with out shutting everything else down. Antivirus is a big one. So many people keep norton or others open and install patches. This is a big reason why people's windows crash after updates.

[DavidLeblond]

This is a really important thing. Many people install things esp patches with out shutting everything else down. Antivirus is a big one. So many people keep norton or others open and install patches. This is a big reason why people's windows crash after updates.

So before you install a service pack, you have to open task manager and weed through all the open processes (58 on my box) trying to guess which ones aren't required by the OS to run and kill them all? I know what most of those processes do, but good luck having my mom figure all that crap out.

Anyway, as I said before the reason Windows (and every other OS) out there requires you to reboot after certain updates is so you don't have to kill every process out there. Its not like I have Word and even Spybot open when I patch Windows, I never said I did. :rolleyes:

[earthtoandy]

no not saying that... just dont use windows :D

[grapes911]

So before you install a service pack, you have to open task manager and weed through all the open processes (58 on my box) trying to guess which ones aren't required by the OS to run and kill them all? I know what most of those processes do, but good luck having my mom figure all that crap out.

Anyway, as I said before the reason Windows (and every other OS) out there requires you to reboot after certain updates is so you don't have to kill every process out there. Its not like I have Word and even Spybot open when I patch Windows, I never said I did. :rolleyes:

I wasn't accusing you of anything. I was trying to make a general statement. Sorry I quoted you. I see how it could have been misleading.

[DavidLeblond]

no not saying that... just dont use windows :D

Unfortunately sometimes you have to. :(

[edesignuk]

Its a resident program. Using the mac has lulled me into not killing every running process before installing a piece of software. Besides, the whole point in restarting the computer after you install is so you don't HAVE to go kill every program.A "piece of software" and a OS service pack are VERY different things. Anyone with half a brain should know that when doing a major OS update you should have as little as possible running.

[grapes911]

no not saying that... just dont use windows :D

If only life was so simple. VPC is not always a viable solution. Why can't software developers get their heads out of their butts and make software for both Windows and OS X (and linux for too)? I guess it all comes down to money.

[grapes911]

A "piece of software" and a OS service pack are VERY different things. Anyone with half a brain should know that when doing a major OS update you should have as little as possible running.

I bet the average computer user (windows or mac) doesn't know this.

[DavidLeblond]

A "piece of software" and a OS service pack are VERY different things. Anyone with half a brain should know that when doing a major OS update you should have as little as possible running.

grapes911 is right ... the average computer user doesn't know this. And out of all the problems I have with Windows, installing updates like this isn't one of them. With the exception of Spybot bitching at me (keep in mind, this is the Spybot Resident not the whole application... there is a difference :p ) I've never had a problem with any of the resident programs being open while I install a service pack. Like I said before, that is why it requires a reboot... because those resident programs (including Windows) have certain files locked.

All I was doing was mentioning that Spybot can be just as annoying as Ad-aware.

[DavidLeblond]

By the way, with all this discussion about Ad-aware and Spybot... ever since switching to FireFox neither one has found any adware (not including tracking cookies of course.)

[SiliconAddict]

I've been using adaware for a few years now with no problems what so ever.

Ditto. Never had a problem with it. HOWEVER. I have heard of people where it has broken some things but that is why you can backup the files and reg changes it plans on doing before you implement it.

[edesignuk]

Ditto. Never had a problem with it. HOWEVER. I have heard of people where it has broken some things but that is why you can backup the files and reg changes it plans on doing before you implement it.I have only ever seen it break a computer(s) once, and this was at work with a certain piece of adware that if not removed properly killed your systems ability to get an IP via DHCP due to the fact the bloody thing bound itself to Winsocks 2 :eek: :mad:

[SiliconAddict]

By the way, with all this discussion about Ad-aware and Spybot... ever since switching to FireFox neither one has found any adware (not including tracking cookies of course.)

Again ditto. I have about 6 users in our office that have to research companies and sometimes they go out to somewhat sketchy sites to gather info. Time and again I have to clean their systems even with spybots active scanning tech. A couple of times I've had to redo their computer because the ad/spyware got so bad.
I finely said screw it and installed FireFox across the board and asked them to purely use FireFox from now on with the exception of some of the in house apps based out of corp that only work with Imploder. :rolleyes:

Since that time ZERO. Zip. NATTA. No adware. I've had people come up to me and tell me why Firefox is such a big deal and that its not that much better then IE. And time and again I tell them they are full of crap. I work with these apps. I see what does and doesn't work and IE is a festering POS that needs to be staked through the heart. Too bad corp won't give me the auth to roll it out office wide. :mad:

[DavidLeblond]

Again ditto. I have about 6 users in our office that have to research companies and sometimes they go out to somewhat sketchy sites to gather info. Time and again I have to clean their systems even with spybots active scanning tech. A couple of times I've had to redo their computer because the ad/spyware got so bad.
I finely said screw it and installed FireFox across the board and asked them to purely use FireFox from now on with the exception of some of the in house apps based out of corp that only work with Imploder. :rolleyes:

Since that time ZERO. Zip. NATTA. No adware. I've had people come up to me and tell me why Firefox is such a big deal and that its not that much better then IE. And time and again I tell them they are full of crap. I work with these apps. I see what does and doesn't work and IE is a festering POS that needs to be staked through the heart. Too bad corp won't give me the auth to roll it out office wide. :mad:

I wonder what Spyware rates would be like using the IE in SP2 with MS's new popup blocker? I'm afraid to find out, besides I'm quite happy with my tabbed browser and all of my firefox extensions.

I wonder if they'll ever get around to putting tabs into IE 7? I'd like to play with a beta of it, but it don't seem to exist yet. MS better get their stuff in gear, I know more and more people going to Firefox.

[earthtoandy]

why IE hasnt got tabbed browsing yet is the biggest mystery in the world. hell safari took what? one or two beta versions before they realized people demanded the tabbed browsing?

firefox is hands down the best browser...i love it and 1.0PR is the best version yet. Addressed all the things I wanted. nice to see even places like colleges suggesting the use of firefox...places that use to be diehard on IE. The tides are changing.

[grapes911]

I wonder what Spyware rates would be like using the IE in SP2 with MS's new popup blocker? I'm afraid to find out, besides I'm quite happy with my tabbed browser and all of my firefox extensions.
I wouldn't risk it...
I wonder if they'll ever get around to putting tabs into IE 7? I'd like to play with a beta of it, but it don't seem to exist yet. MS better get their stuff in gear, I know more and more people going to Firefox.
... and I wouldn't count on it.

[grapes911]

nice to see even places like colleges suggesting the use of firefox...places that use to be diehard on IE.

At the University of Delware, we have our on windows build of Mozilla.

[Apple Hobo]

why IE hasnt got tabbed browsing yet is the biggest mystery in the world.

No mystery at all: IE is just a big, festering pile of *****.

[Roger1]

This is a really important thing. Many people install things esp patches with out shutting everything else down. Antivirus is a big one. So many people keep norton or others open and install patches. This is a big reason why people's windows crash after updates.

I've had a machine get infected with a worm, while downloading from the MS website. A brand new machine right out of the box (this being the first website to be visited, beside Nortons website). I had the AV installed and it caught it while downloading the windows updates :rolleyes:

I have 2 machines running xp. The first I bought with xp preinstalled. I've never had any issues with it. The other, I built myself. I've had to install xp twice in the last 6 months, due to numerous BSOD's. Turns out that my burner is going bad, causing issues. I took out the burner, reinstalled everything except the burner, and it runs flawlessly. I installed SP2 and it installed without a problem. Guess I'm lucky :p

[bdomz]

I haven't rebuilt my PC since I put it together almost a year ago (WXP Pro), and it's just as fast as it ever was....which is very! (3GHz, 1GB, 9800, SATA). I have never had a BSOD. Buy good hardware, not cheap *****, make sure it is all fully compatible, and has proper XP drivers, and you won’t have problems….oh, and don’t use IE!!!

I've built several PC's myself and I'm very anal about my computers. That being said I also have several other people in my household and you'd be amazed at how easily windows gets screwed up when multiple users are surfing the net, installing programs etc. . . . Using Firefox does help alot and has cut my spyware to nil. I never really had any major issues with Windows XP until I got rid of my desktop and switched over to notebooks only. I have a Dell and an IBM notebook now and both run reasonably well but require a heck of alot of maintenance on my part. I even had one instance where the OS corrupted and I lost all my data. Plus using wireless internet with XP is flaky, signals get dropped randomly and I've talked to several people online who have similar problems with pretty much any configuration of router/wireless card.

[SiliconAddict]

If it isn't pre-installed, it's not out of the box :rolleyes:


And your point? You are never going to get an alternative browser preinstalled "out of the box" The fact is if people push how craptastic IE is. People will simply go to spreadfirefox.org and download it when they get a new computer. If they don't. Well then good luck in 3 weeks when your computer is festering with ad/spyware.

[SiliconAddict]

Plus using wireless internet with XP is flaky, signals get dropped randomly and I've talked to several people online who have similar problems with pretty much any configuration of router/wireless card.



Don't use XP's zero wireless zero config. Its the buggiest POS I've ever seen. Use whatever utils come with the W-NIC.

[SiliconAddict]

I wonder what Spyware rates would be like using the IE in SP2 with MS's new popup blocker? I'm afraid to find out, besides I'm quite happy with my tabbed browser and all of my firefox extensions.

I wonder if they'll ever get around to putting tabs into IE 7? I'd like to play with a beta of it, but it don't seem to exist yet. MS better get their stuff in gear, I know more and more people going to Firefox.


If we are to believe MS, :p , IE 7 will only be available for Longhorn. MS doesn't want to make their browser backwards compatible with their "old" OS's.
Expect this attitude to change now that FireFox is on the scene. Don't you just love competition? Too bad the only real way to compete with MS is to give your software away for free. :mad:

[DavidLeblond]

If we are to believe MS, :p , IE 7 will only be available for Longhorn. MS doesn't want to make their browser backwards compatible with their "old" OS's.
Expect this attitude to change now that FireFox is on the scene. Don't you just love competition? Too bad the only real way to compete with MS is to give your software away for free. :mad:

I doubt IE 7 will be Longhorn only. Even "key features" for Longhorn are now going to be released for Windows XP (WinFX I believe is the name of the framework.)

I even question whether or not IE 7 will be ready when Longhorn ships. I haven't heard as much hype about it, nor have I seen any screenshots (the version shown with Longhorn isn't IE 7.)

[grapes911]

I installed SP2 and it installed without a problem. Guess I'm lucky :p

No not lucky, thats how it is supposed to work. I've installed sp2 on about 7 or 8 computers and never had a problem. If someone had a problem I blame it on them for not following instructions. I guess there are some rare instances that I problem can occur that is not the users fault, but this is not the norm.

[earthtoandy]

actually there are known issues.. like if you have certain spyware on your computer.. where the sp2 will crash hard! there are issues... and i am sure not all have been found.

but of course i had no problem... cause i rule.

[slughead]

actually there are known issues.. like if you have certain spyware on your computer.. where the sp2 will crash hard! there are issues... and i am sure not all have been found.

but of course i had no problem... cause i rule.

I have no problems on my PC, because I use Windows 2000, Norton Internet Security, and Firefox. Plus I use my Mac for E-mail.

Done deal. Nothing gets in, I get warned of anything trying to get out. As a result, I have never gotten a virus on my PC, or a piece of spyware (sans what was included with M$ Windows *cough*).

Also Win2k crashes 50% less than Windows XP.

[grapes911]

Also Win2k crashes 50% less than Windows XP.

You've got to be kidding me. I restart much less with xp than i did with 2000. I only received one bsd (i overclocked my cpu too much) running xp while I had a couple under 2000. But I guess to each his own.

[Mach D]

You've got to be kidding me. I restart much less with xp than i did with 2000. I only received one bsd (i overclocked my cpu too much) running xp while I had a couple under 2000. But I guess to each his own.

My xp is so bad, I now have to restart daily. And it's not like I don't maintain the PC, it's just crap at this point. I refuse to format. I'm buying an iMac.

[BWhaler]

Welcome to The Light.

[Roger1]

No not lucky, thats how it is supposed to work. I've installed sp2 on about 7 or 8 computers and never had a problem. If someone had a problem I blame it on them for not following instructions. I guess there are some rare instances that I problem can occur that is not the users fault, but this is not the norm.

Heh. i'm trying to put it on a couple of machines at work, and the auto update doesn't find it. This is after following the directions, turning on the firewall, ect. All I get is "no updates available".

Let's see- firewall on? yep
Antivirus installed? yep
Automatic update on? yep
Sp2 loading? NO
I try to find the update, and the website sends me into a loop, from one page to another in an endless circle. Screw it. I'm going home, and I'll worry about it tomorrow.

[Mach D]

Heh. i'm trying to put it on a couple of machines at work, and the auto update doesn't find it. This is after following the directions, turning on the firewall, ect. All I get is "no updates available".

Let's see- firewall on? yep
Antivirus installed? yep
Automatic update on? yep
Sp2 loading? NO
I try to find the update, and the website sends me into a loop, from one page to another in an endless circle. Screw it. I'm going home, and I'll worry about it tomorrow.

There is some timeframe you can download it because of the demand of the service pack. It took me 3 weeks from actually asking for the SP for the Update to actually recognize it.

[grapes911]

Heh. i'm trying to put it on a couple of machines at work, and the auto update doesn't find it. This is after following the directions, turning on the firewall, ect. All I get is "no updates available".

Let's see- firewall on? yep
Antivirus installed? yep
Automatic update on? yep
Sp2 loading? NO
I try to find the update, and the website sends me into a loop, from one page to another in an endless circle. Screw it. I'm going home, and I'll worry about it tomorrow.

If you are installing it on mutiple computers you are better off downloading it once and then installing it as many times as you need.
http://download.microsoft.com/download/1/6/5/165b076b-aaa9-443d-84f0-73cf11fdcdf8/WindowsXP-KB835935-SP2-ENU.exe

[Anticipat3]

What can be said...

I've run dozens of Windows PCs over the years, and they're certainly a lot less reliable and more problematic than the OSX Apple computers I've used.

Windows XP is a pretty decent OS, and it really IS a lot better than Win98. However, it definately has a lot of issues; first being security/crapware vulnerability, and second being the need to support so much crazy hardware -- crashes and hangs are still a reality of the windows world, especially if you're on teh cutting edge. I recently got an Athlon 64 system to replace my P4, and I've turned up dozens of problems already -- Windowblinds doesn't work with it, PoE (a Battlefield Vietnam Mod) crashes out randomly, etc. Mind you, I'm using all namebrand hardware, nothing cheap. If you run as an administrative user and you regularly install new programs, you're going to have to format windows every couple months to keep it running quickly.

That said, if you DON'T run as an Administrative user, and you DON'T regularly install and play with new programs, Windows XP is very solid -- this is why it's a great platform for corporate use. However, the home user doesn't have an IT department to configure their firewall, filter spam and viruses out of their email, ensure that the user has no privledges, keep their home directories on the network, regularly backed up, etc.... This is where OSX shines -- It works great with little to no support.

[MacUser1]

Speed-wise, how does the T42 compare to your Powerbook? The T42 isn't a weak machine by any means.
speed wise, the T42 is a very nice computer. even the specs are impressive. however, you can have the best machine in the world, but still be hindered by a poor operating system.

[mmmdreg]

lol putting in my subject choices at uni for next year required IE on a PC of all things. I go to a PC, at one stage it won't let me continue unless I click their "print" button which tries to open some installer for some journal viewer to make some form that I can print out.. now the installer file could not be found and really, I didn't want to print it out so I pressed cancel. It's looking like it's all fine and dandy but no!, the installer fires up again. IE has meanwhile frozen so I can't use the window where I *can* progress now due to their popup that can't progress due to the installer. So on and so forth and then everything crashes. However, i saved up that point and I didn't have to print it out on second round.

I had to go through that process 3 times to finish the application due to various printing ideas....

So.. stupid specifying requirements that don't work eh?

[mcs37]

I like to diversity my network myself! I'm writing this on my slick 12" PowerBook while I've got two Windows XP machines (one fileserver, one workstation) as well as two Linux servers. Hoping to build a 1-terabyte Linux server to act as another fileserver, a DVR, and another node for distribution computing. One day I'll be able to afford myself a Power Mac, but the point is the diversity of the network gives it a lot of flavor.

Windows has some problems and there are some areas that Mac kicks its ass badly, but I don't mind using it for web page development, DVD ripping, and gaming. Lots of free software too! I do love my PowerBook though. :rolleyes:

One negative aspect of Macs is the higher cost of living. I recently purchased a second power source--$80! For an AC adaptor? $25 for the iKlear kit! The $20 for the DVI->VGA adaptor was the best deal. So there is the "Apple tax".

One great positive is the club you're initiated into with the purchase of a Mac. I had a 10-hour layover in San Francisco a few days ago so I headed into the city, had some food, and vegged at the Apple store for a good 3 hours. Just sat there, they hooked me up for power, and did some work and listened to iTunes while the staff were helping others at the genius bar. No worries! They welcomed me like a member of the family, and everyone was so happy. I do love those stores. I even went to the overflowing Apple store in the Ginza--what an experience that was! Packed with people! But it's like being part of the Masons or another society. Everywhere in the nation (and hopefully, eventually the world) you can go to an Apple store and use it as a home base. If only they had hostels and food+drink...

Try finding a club like that for Windows, Linux, Solaris... well any other computing machine.

[DavidLeblond]

lol putting in my subject choices at uni for next year required IE on a PC of all things. I go to a PC, at one stage it won't let me continue unless I click their "print" button which tries to open some installer for some journal viewer to make some form that I can print out..

Ahhhh you must have Microsoft Journal Viewer. I'm not 100% sure why, but for some reason if you have Journal Viewer installed it will run that installer whenever you try to open a PDF. It will open Acrobat as soon as you hit Cancel on the installer about 30 times. I recommend uninstalling Journal Viewer, that should fix things.

Microsoft knows about the bug but as always has no intention on fixing it. Its not a bug, its a feature and if you don't like that feature they suggest uninstalling Journal Viewer (which is useless anyway.)

[Mav451]

What can be said...

I've run dozens of Windows PCs over the years, and they're certainly a lot less reliable and more problematic than the OSX Apple computers I've used.

Windows XP is a pretty decent OS, and it really IS a lot better than Win98. However, it definately has a lot of issues; first being security/crapware vulnerability, and second being the need to support so much crazy hardware -- crashes and hangs are still a reality of the windows world, especially if you're on teh cutting edge. I recently got an Athlon 64 system to replace my P4, and I've turned up dozens of problems already -- Windowblinds doesn't work with it, PoE (a Battlefield Vietnam Mod) crashes out randomly, etc. Mind you, I'm using all namebrand hardware, nothing cheap. If you run as an administrative user and you regularly install new programs, you're going to have to format windows every couple months to keep it running quickly.

That said, if you DON'T run as an Administrative user, and you DON'T regularly install and play with new programs, Windows XP is very solid -- this is why it's a great platform for corporate use. However, the home user doesn't have an IT department to configure their firewall, filter spam and viruses out of their email, ensure that the user has no privledges, keep their home directories on the network, regularly backed up, etc.... This is where OSX shines -- It works great with little to no support.

Crashing out randomly is usually not a fault of Windows XP, but your hardware. Please do not confuse the two, as its hilarious the kind of stuff I've seen on this board.

People blame BSODs on XP all the time, but I can guarantee you almost 90% of that is from bad memory sticks or weak power supplies (and sometimes, an outdated BIOS if you are on a cutting edge board). The problem is that the Socket 754 boards (assuming you are on 754 and not 939) has been out for almost an entire year--making it a relatively mature chipset in "PC time" >> where newer/faster is always coming out.

My A7N8X had some quirks/problems for the first few months, but since then BIOS/driver updates eliminated those issues. (a7n8x being released in late Q3'02--being that its been nearly 2 years). I went from BIOS 1002 to 1007. I can tell you alot of fixes go on between even just one BIOS revision, much less 5 revisions.

I can tell that if I get a BSOD or hardlock, its definitely a hardware issue. I tried Crucial Ballistix--which gave me constant BSODs (when I've been having 0 since early '03, when I built this). While memtest didn't pick up errors in the first 4 hours, had I run it much longer (1 day), I would have seen the errors and not run it in the first place.

Memtest your memory first before laying all the blame on XP. Its something you should do regardless of what OS you have. Just remember to leave it on overnight.
http://www.memtest86.com/#download1

Likewise a friend was having restart problems. Not temperature related, and not relative to games either (restarting in desktop or in games) >> where gaming usually stresses both the CPU/Video card. But since it was happening at random, that left the power supply. It was a 400W Allied P-O-S. I put in the solid-rock that is an Enermax 350W (26A on the +12V line, see that in any other PSU?).

The restarts were gone INSTANTLY.