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View Full Version : Wait for the 2010 MP or BUY USED?




Murray M
Apr 25, 2010, 09:27 PM
OK, so like everyone, I need a MP. And buying a new one with the 2010's just around the corner seems like a bad deal.

I'm really considering just buying one used. I can get a great used MP for around $1500 with some solid features.

Should I wait for the 2010 or buy used?



spinnerlys
Apr 25, 2010, 09:31 PM
That depends on your needs. Will four more cores (six core CPU Gulftown) be worth 3000USD for you?

And with every of these threads, the question has to be asked (otherwise it's redundant guesswork from our side of the screen): What are your needs?

Murray M
Apr 25, 2010, 09:51 PM
What are your needs?

Good Q.
I'll use it to edit DVCPRO HD 1080P footage in FCP. That and edit 300-600GB images in PS CS5 when it comes out.

The money: I'm fine with spending $3K on a new one and I'm also fine with spending half of that on a used one and using the saved money on other stuff. I'm fine both ways.

The time: I suppose I could wait a couple more weeks, but I REALLY don't want to wait till September, as recently rumored.

Wait or go used?

rajbonham
Apr 25, 2010, 10:12 PM
Good Q.
I'll use it to edit DVCPRO HD 1080P footage in FCP. That and edit 300-600GB images in PS CS5 when it comes out.

The money: I'm fine with spending $3K on a new one and I'm also fine with spending half of that on a used one and using the saved money on other stuff. I'm fine both ways.

The time: I suppose I could wait a couple more weeks, but I REALLY don't want to wait till September, as recently rumored.

Wait or go used?

Let me clear things up a bit. You are NOT going to have to wait until September to purchase an updated Mac Pro. If Apple waits until September, there's going to be a s*%t storm. Believe me, even Apple knows the current Mac Pro is way out of date (for a "professional" product, anyway...).

I seriously expect the updated Mac Pro anytime in May. It's up to you if waiting another couple of weeks is worth it or not.

tekboi
Apr 25, 2010, 10:37 PM
I would buy used. I doubt it will be much of an upgrade anyways. They'll just slap the gulftown processors in there and that will be that. None of the other requests users have been screaming at apple will be addressed.

Why waste your time?

Tonytownsend
Apr 25, 2010, 10:42 PM
I seriously expect the updated Mac Pro anytime in May. It's up to you if waiting another couple of weeks is worth it or not.

I agree I think Between Ipad and Iphone season(May). We will see our Pros.
June would be to long to wait considering there are many other manufactures making the update to the six cores I think apple knows if they hold out to long it could hurt them.

rajbonham
Apr 25, 2010, 11:01 PM
I would buy used. I doubt it will be much of an upgrade anyways. They'll just slap the gulftown processors in there and that will be that. None of the other requests users have been screaming at apple will be addressed.

Why waste your time?

Because the new processors start at about $1,000. The current processors are only about $300. Take into account that the new models will (most likely) be at the same price points, and you have your answer.

Even if it's only a processor update, at least Apple isn't ripping us off nearly as bad.

strausd
Apr 25, 2010, 11:32 PM
I think Apple will update the GPUs too. The current ones in the Mac Pro are even more outdated than the processors. I'm hoping to see at least a 5870, I think a 5970 would be amazing but I don't think Apple would do that.

spinnerlys
Apr 26, 2010, 04:56 AM
That and edit 300-600GB images in PS CS5 when it comes out.


Do you edit 300 to 600 images or images that are 300 to 600 GB (GigaByte) in size?

If it is the latter, may I know what kind of images those are?

Deepshade
Apr 26, 2010, 05:18 AM
Purchased late cycle G5 - thought it was a good deal - PPC discontinued weeks later

Never purchase late cycle again!

Kissaragi
Apr 26, 2010, 05:27 AM
I was waiting for the 2010 mac pros, but after finding an ex demo 09 mac pro on ebay at a fantastic price a few weeks ago i went with that.

I just hope that when apple upgrades the mac pros, the new graphics cards are 09 compatible.

Murray M
Apr 26, 2010, 06:23 AM
Do you edit 300 to 600 images or images that are 300 to 600 GB (GigaByte) in size?

If it is the latter, may I know what kind of images those are?

Single images that are 300-600GB. I'm printing at the 40" x 90" (ish) size. I'm thinking that a 2008 or 2009 MP would be fine for this--what do you think?

Murray M
Apr 26, 2010, 06:24 AM
Because the new processors start at about $1,000. The current processors are only about $300. Take into account that the new models will (most likely) be at the same price points, and you have your answer.

Even if it's only a processor update, at least Apple isn't ripping us off nearly as bad.

Excellent point.

Murray M
Apr 26, 2010, 06:26 AM
I agree I think Between Ipad and Iphone season(May). We will see our Pros.
June would be to long to wait considering there are many other manufactures making the update to the six cores I think apple knows if they hold out to long it could hurt them.

Great point.
You might have convinced me to wait through May. But if the last Tues in May comes and passes, Apple is going to miss my money.

spinnerlys
Apr 26, 2010, 06:29 AM
Single images that are 300-600GB. I'm printing at the 40" x 90" (ish) size. I'm thinking that a 2008 or 2009 MP would be fine for this--what do you think?

Excellent point.

Great point.
You might have convinced me to wait through May. But if the last Tues in May comes and passes, Apple is going to miss my money.

You can multi-quote via the http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/buttons/multiquote_off.gif button on the right side of the http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/buttons/quote.gif button and then clicking the http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/buttons/reply.gif button, as consecutive posts by one poster in short intervals are not abiding to those rules you signed up to when registering here.


Btw, how can such a "small image" (90" = 229cm) be such a big file? Do you have hundreds of layers? And how many 100TB HDDs do you have to use to archive those files, or do you split them onto CDs or DVDs for storage?

Murray M
Apr 26, 2010, 07:21 AM
You can multi-quote via the http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/buttons/multiquote_off.gif button on the right side of the http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/buttons/quote.gif button and then clicking the http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/buttons/reply.gif button, as consecutive posts by one poster in short intervals are not abiding to those rules you signed up to when registering here.


Btw, how can such a "small image" (90" = 229cm) be such a big file? Do you have hundreds of layers? And how many 100TB HDDs do you have to use to archive those files, or do you split them onto CDs or DVDs for storage?

Thanks for the heads up about multi-quote (I'm new here and other forums I frequent don't use that feature yet). I had no idea I was breaking a rule.

[Completely embarrased here] I meant mb, not gb. Ha.

So with that clarified, would you agree that a 08 or 09 MP would be fine?

spinnerlys
Apr 26, 2010, 07:28 AM
Ah, that would have been a drag with GBs.

If you can wait until the end of June, when Apple most likely holds its WWDC, a probable time to introduce new products, then I say wait. Even 300MB files are a drag somehow, and why not get as much processing power as you can get. And as one poster said before, the new CPUs are more expensive, and if the Mac Pro prices tay the same, it will not be as much of a rip-off as todays machines. And as far as I have gathered the '08 MPs have much better value for the price than the '09 editions.

Also take a look at the refurbished section of Apple's Online Store to get better prices on current machines. You might run into trouble with a used one.

nanofrog
Apr 26, 2010, 11:08 AM
Ah, that would have been a drag with GBs.

If you can wait until the end of June, when Apple most likely holds its WWDC, a probable time to introduce new products, then I say wait. Even 300MB files are a drag somehow, and why not get as much processing power as you can get. And as one poster said before, the new CPUs are more expensive, and if the Mac Pro prices tay the same, it will not be as much of a rip-off as todays machines. And as far as I have gathered the '08 MPs have much better value for the price than the '09 editions.

Also take a look at the refurbished section of Apple's Online Store to get better prices on current machines. You might run into trouble with a used one.
Given the software usage described, a Quad core would be sufficient, the higher the clock, the better. The upcomming hex SP system will be the W3680, which is 3.33GHz, and the most expensive SP Xeon out there.

So though it seems great, the additional cores may not be of much use (as PS seems to only be able to use 2x cores, unless I've missed that this has been increased in CS5).

Go for whatever comes in cheapest, which is likely to be a refurbished system ('09). You can even get a base model and upgrade the CPU (just make sure the math works out first).

Now with the funds saved, put it towards solving system bottlenecks, such as RAM and disk I/O (which would be noticed on a daily basis).

Murray M
Apr 26, 2010, 11:25 AM
Now with the funds saved, put it towards solving system bottlenecks, such as RAM and disk I/O (which would be noticed on a daily basis).

1) What's the best bang-for-the-buck amount of ram you would suggest for handling DVCPRO HD 1080P footage in FCP? I was thinking somewhere in the 6 to 8 GB--sound right?

2) By "disk I/O" you mean the speed of the harddrives--right? If so, for my purposes would you recommend 7200 or 10,000 drives?

Thanks--this is really helping.

Transporteur
Apr 26, 2010, 11:33 AM
2) By "disk I/O" you mean the speed of the harddrives--right? If so, for my purposes would you recommend 7200 or 10,000 drives?



If your statement with 300 - 600 GigaByte (:eek:) per image is correct, I'd recommend a serious (external of course) RAID system. I'm pretty sure nanofrog can help you with that. ;)

I really can't image how PS handles such large files.

nanofrog
Apr 26, 2010, 11:44 AM
1) What's the best bang-for-the-buck amount of ram you would suggest for handling DVCPRO HD 1080P footage in FCP? I was thinking somewhere in the 6 to 8 GB--sound right?
I'd stuff in as much as possible that's reasonable.

Using 2GB sticks, you can get 8GB, with 4GB sticks, up to 16GB. CS5 can utilize that memory as well. As per how well it utilizes it, I'm not 100% sure, but I'd think it could use 16GB just fine.

2) By "disk I/O" you mean the speed of the harddrives--right? If so, for my purposes would you recommend 7200 or 10,000 drives?
Yes, but also RAID.

Ideally, you could run an SSD for the OS/applications drive (fastest at random access reads), and a mechanical RAID (2x disk stripe set) for the file storage (SSD's aren't good for high write conditions, but mechanical is).

Just make absolutely sure to run a proper backup system, which can consist of a single drive.

This would only be 4x drives total (1x SSD, 3x HDD's). You'd even have options as to where you can put them (empty optical bay can be utilized).

spinnerlys
Apr 26, 2010, 11:50 AM
If your statement with 300 - 600 GigaByte (:eek:) per image is correct, I'd recommend a serious (external of course) RAID system. I'm pretty sure nanofrog can help you with that. ;)

I really can't image how PS handles such large files.

The OP was confusing MB with GB, as stated in one of the earlier posts.

Transporteur
Apr 26, 2010, 12:01 PM
The OP was confusing MB with GB, as stated in one of the earlier posts.

Oh crap. Didn't see that. :o

tekboi
Apr 26, 2010, 01:34 PM
Because the new processors start at about $1,000. The current processors are only about $300. Take into account that the new models will (most likely) be at the same price points, and you have your answer.

Even if it's only a processor update, at least Apple isn't ripping us off nearly as bad.

If they keep the prices the same, then you would have a point. But, that's no guarentee with apple. I do think it would be wise on apples part to NOT increase price. Unless they really want to kill their pro market.

rajbonham
Apr 26, 2010, 02:07 PM
If they keep the prices the same, then you would have a point. But, that's no guarentee with apple. I do think it would be wise on apples part to NOT increase price. Unless they really want to kill their pro market.

I'm pretty sure they are going to keep the prices the same. If they raise them at all, it is going to be VERY minimal. If they lower the- oh wait, never mind, that won't happen. :p

Icaras
Apr 26, 2010, 02:52 PM
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If they keep the prices the same, then you would have a point. But, that's no guarentee with apple. I do think it would be wise on apples part to NOT increase price. Unless they really want to kill their pro market.

I'm pretty sure they are going to keep the prices the same. If they raise them at all, it is going to be VERY minimal. If they lower the- oh wait, never mind, that won't happen. :p

Unless of course, they were able to keep the quad processor machine. They could lower the price on that and still and still keep Mac Pros separated from te iMacs.

nanofrog
Apr 27, 2010, 12:08 AM
Unless of course, they were able to keep the quad processor machine.
They'd almost have to, unless they'd be content with offering a single SP system (W3680 is the only hex SP part currently available).

But as those parts won't come down much, I'm not sure about a price drop, save to make sure they're positioned to sell, and they'd make sure it's more than the iMac to prevent cannibalization of those sales.

ValSalva
Apr 27, 2010, 12:51 PM
They'd almost have to, unless they'd be content with offering a single SP system (W3680 is the only hex SP part currently available).

But as those parts won't come down much, I'm not sure about a price drop, save to make sure they're positioned to sell, and they'd make sure it's more than the iMac to prevent cannibalization of those sales.

I agree. And look at this month's MBP update. No price drops.

The price drops in June 2009 may have been partly a response to Microsoft advertisements targeting Apple on price. There doesn't seem to be that pressure now. I can't remember the last time I saw a Microsoft ad.

Icaras
Apr 27, 2010, 02:07 PM
They'd almost have to, unless they'd be content with offering a single SP system (W3680 is the only hex SP part currently available).

But as those parts won't come down much, I'm not sure about a price drop, save to make sure they're positioned to sell, and they'd make sure it's more than the iMac to prevent cannibalization of those sales.

Keeping the quad would be so great, but wouldn't Apple be shooting themselves in the foot if they retained the current pricing? As far as I see, many of the folks here that are holding out on the imminent update just don't want to pay the price for 14 month old tech. For me, it just seems an absolute must to bring that price down.

And on the subject of product cannibalization, Apple has a wide gap of $500 to play with between the high end iMac and the low end Mac Pro. So even if the current processors don't have $500 of room to drop, let us humor ourselves for a moment on the notion of what if the quad Mac Pro were to drop to $1999, or even below that mark.

What I personally fail to grasp though, is the cannibalization effect. If the iMac is targeted more towards (but not entirely) the consumer crowd, then I think the average buyer would most likely be oblivious of the added benefit of expandability. I think he/she would see the immediate benefits, such as faster processors on the CTO page, and the most obvious one: an included, spankin' brand new, included 27" display. Getting, more or less, an equal type of display from Dell will set the consumer back around an extra $1000. Thus, I don't see a low priced Mac Pro really interfering with iMac sales, at least on a substantial scale.

However, I will be quick to write off the latter of potential price drop scenarios for the Mac Pro, and that is, below the $1999 mark. This is because, without taking a look at any specs or processor models, or factoring in built in displays, or expandability options, the eco system of Mac pricing from Apple must always remain true, it seems.

I believe it is nigh impossible for Apple to cross that line, unless relatively speaking, they begin to price drop the iMac as well.

Ok, that's enough ranting about business of it. But my hopeful, wishful opinion, is that I think Apple should drop the quad to a safe $2199-$2299, at the very least. The pricing separation remains intact and people can rest a little easier knowing they won't be paying last year's price on last year's technology.

Icaras
Apr 27, 2010, 02:18 PM
I agree. And look at this month's MBP update. No price drops.

No, the difference with the MBPs is that the specs went up, as expected!

How would you like it if they kept the 13" model the same exact specs as last year, AND kept the same exact pricing?

ValSalva
Apr 27, 2010, 05:11 PM
No, the difference with the MBPs is that the specs went up, as expected!

How would you like it if they kept the 13" model the same exact specs as last year, AND kept the same exact pricing?

I was referring to June 2009 when the MBP models had bumps in specs but the prices went down a little. Usually, as you say, the prices stay the same as the specs go up.

The 13" MBP price stayed the same this time but the battery is bigger, the HDD is bigger, there is a faster processor, and there is 4GB of RAM (all in the base model). Yes, unfortunately it's still a C2D though.

It will be amazing if Apple doesn't release a new Mac Pro until say, September, and still keeps the same prices until that launch. That would be borderline abusive.

Icaras
Apr 27, 2010, 06:42 PM
I was referring to June 2009 when the MBP models had bumps in specs but the prices went down a little. Usually, as you say, the prices stay the same as the specs go up.

The 13" MBP price stayed the same this time but the battery is bigger, the HDD is bigger, there is a faster processor, and there is 4GB of RAM (all in the base model). Yes, unfortunately it's still a C2D though.

It will be amazing if Apple doesn't release a new Mac Pro until say, September, and still keeps the same prices until that launch. That would be borderline abusive.

Ah, yes, I understand you now. Yes, I don't expect any price drops in the next Mac Pro refresh either.

Are you implying Apple should at least lower the prices on the current models NOW before September, regardless of any imminent refresh or not? If so, then yes, I agree with that too. Either way, I can't see a logical reason for the current models, quad at the forefront, to keep it's current pricing, once the new machines ultimately hit.

ValSalva
Apr 27, 2010, 07:11 PM
Either way, I can't see a logical reason for the current models, quad at the forefront, to keep it's current pricing, once the new machines ultimately hit.

Me either. I'm kind of counting on them dropping in price :D That may be wishful thinking but if they don't come down the whole line is eventually going to cost a fortune.

nanofrog
Apr 27, 2010, 09:15 PM
Keeping the quad would be so great, but wouldn't Apple be shooting themselves in the foot if they retained the current pricing? As far as I see, many of the folks here that are holding out on the imminent update just don't want to pay the price for 14 month old tech. For me, it just seems an absolute must to bring that price down.
No, as the Quads would be less expensive systems. Users have to balance performance with budgets in line with their specific usage pattern, so it might be better to go with a Quad (software can't use but say 2x cores, and multi-tasking isn't really feasible given the workflow.

They can then take the savings and put it towards upgrades that will benefit them, such as RAM and increasing I/O throughput.