PDA

View Full Version : ***Stunning*** Toshiba with best competition so far? Power and LIGHTEST 13" Notebook!




Jobsian
May 7, 2010, 10:09 AM
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/05/anh1-600x313.jpg

Just caught this at Engadget link (http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/07/toshiba-building-worlds-lightest-13-inch-laptop-with-fast-charg/). Interestingly, the source of this info has requested the original website with the info to remove it, which they have. (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&langpair=vi%7Cen&sl=vi&tl=en&u=http://voz.vn/2010/05/07/tiep-tuc-co-them-thong-tin-ro-ri-ve-vu-khi-cua-hoi-so-lo/&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1)

Not since the Vaio Z has a 13" notebook had me salivating like a mule. Ok I'll summarise what I'm finding exciting as rumored:


LIGHTEST 13" Notebook at <1kg (<2.3lbs) - Remember MBA is 3lbs and Adamo XPS (while superthin) is 3.2lbs. Vaio X is 1.6lbs though is 11"
Core i3, i5 AND i7 Options! They have mentioned i7-620 but not whether M or UM (big difference in TDP and Clock speed) EDIT - MUST be the i7-620M as it says "Standard Voltage CPU" - this means 2.66-3.33 GHz Clock!!
512GB SSD - Fierce
4GB RAM
"Super Charged ion Battery" - Apparently charges from 0 to 90% in prototypes in less than 10 MINUTES!
Blaze Mountain CPU cooling" - No info RE what this actually is but any new cooling approach is good news - This could well be the key to the entire system, I can't wait to find out what this is
USB 3.0 - Yes please!
"Long battery life" - no further details



The major excitement here for me is that it demonstrates plausibility for major hardware upgrades on the MBA - and the exact reason why I won't buy this before seeing Apple's MBA update is the biggest likely weakness for this system (for me) - No OSX.

Bring on WWDC!

Summary retrieved by Engadget:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/05/newtl-600x395.jpg



ermir4444
May 7, 2010, 10:47 AM
I just saw this at engaged and omg its stunning from the shots. And whats more stunning about it is that you will have full powered core i3,i5,i7 in a notebook that weighs 1 kg and its probably crazy thin as well (to achieve the weight). This is really revolutionary quite different from Steve's definition of revolutionary. You heard that Stevey, You better get moving on that new MacBook Air if there will be one...

Huubster
May 7, 2010, 10:48 AM
The major excitement here for me is that it demonstrates plausibility for major hardware upgrades on the MBA - and the exact reason why I won't buy this before seeing Apple's MBA update is the biggest likely weakness for this system (for me) - No OSX.

Bring on WWDC!

Considering the very recent and underwhelming upgrade to the 13" MBP, I think it is unlikely that an (uncertain) WWDC MBA upgrade will come even close to this. :(

Schtumple
May 7, 2010, 10:51 AM
We'll never see a mac compete with this, Apple are slowly making it clear the iPhone OS is their current project, mac will be taking the back benches for a long time to come.

bigjnyc
May 7, 2010, 11:01 AM
I just saw this at engaged and omg its stunning from the shots. And whats more stunning about it is that you will have full powered core i3,i5,i7 in a notebook that weighs 1 kg and its probably crazy thin as well (to achieve the weight). This is really revolutionary quite different from Steve's definition of revolutionary. You heard that Stevey, You better get moving on that new MacBook Air if there will be one...

it will be years before Apple catches up these specs, at the pace they update.

entatlrg
May 7, 2010, 11:08 AM
We'll never see a mac compete with this, Apple are slowly making it clear the iPhone OS is their current project, mac will be taking the back benches for a long time to come.

Why would you say that, or what facts do you base your statements on?

MacBooks are VERY popular with respectable double digit growth EVERY quarter, a LOT of Apple is the MacBook/MBP line.

Yes, the iPhone, iPad, App Store are wildly popular and profitable but to think Apple is going to let their notebook line become antiquated or fade away is ridiculous.

It's only a tiny .01% of Mac owners that hang out in tech forums discussing tech and spec's to no end. EVERYONE else, Joe Consumer is 'wow'd by the nice screen, silver/aluminum color, less virus's and problems and many more who don't won a mac wish for one but price and/or reliance on windows holds them back.

A lot of people now own and bought MacBooks because they bought an iPhone and really liked it.

It should be noted these wild profits from the iPhone/iPad/App Store and all Apple's CASH could / should and certainly WILL help fund and take the MBP's to levels we've only dreamed of.

Job's isn't an innovation slouch, he has money, a vengeance of sorts towards windows and it's hardware, he'll be sure he keep's 'all the plates spinning'.

Realistically, if the MacBook Air dies it will be because something replaces it, or eliminates the need to manufacture it .... maybe a major upgrade to the 13" MBP negates the need for an MBA such as shaving a pound off the 13" MBP and adding iSeries processors?

I wouldn't worry, but it's sure something to wonder about and the waiting is long ... have to give it time while the iPad enjoys the spotlight ... so I think it could be a long while yet before we see something 'shocking' in the 13" class.

My 2C.

PsyD4Me
May 7, 2010, 11:31 AM
Goodbyer air, I just don't see where it will fit anymore

Raje
May 7, 2010, 12:17 PM
This toshiba looks good but I would have to read some reviews on it after it comes out before I would buy it. Some major factors in my decision would be:
Build Quality
Amount of heat generated
How many charges the battery is good for
Graphics Power intel igp=no buy

Huubster
May 7, 2010, 12:22 PM
Why would you say that, or what facts do you base your statements on?

MacBooks are VERY popular with respectable double digit growth EVERY quarter, a LOT of Apple is the MacBook/MBP

Correct.


Yes, the iPhone, iPad, App Store are wildly popular and profitable but to think Apple is going to let their notebook line become antiquated or fade away is ridiculous.

Well. Some aspects of it are already antiquated. Especially the underwhelming 13" MP upgrade is technologically lagging years behind.


It's only a tiny .01% of Mac owners that hang out in tech forums discussing tech and spec's to no end. EVERYONE else, Joe Consumer is 'wow'd by the nice screen, silver/aluminum color, less virus's and problems and many more who don't won a mac wish for one but price and/or reliance on windows holds them back.

Correct, except pricing/hw value is very high.


A lot of people now own and bought MacBooks because they bought an iPhone and really liked it.


Yep. Thats what you get when people get buzzed by a brand.


It should be noted these wild profits from the iPhone/iPad/App Store and all Apple's CASH could / should and certainly WILL help fund and take the MBP's to levels we've only dreamed of.


There is nothing enlightened or idialistic about Apple, it's all money destined for certain peoples pocktes, just like in any other succesfull company.


Job's isn't an innovation slouch, he has money, a vengeance of sorts towards windows and it's hardware, he'll be sure he keep's 'all the plates spinning'.


He is very inovative when it comes to thinking of funky things that bind people to them.


Realistically, if the MacBook Air dies it will be because something replaces it, or eliminates the need to manufacture it .... maybe a major upgrade to the 13" MBP negates the need for an MBA such as shaving a pound off the 13" MBP and adding iSeries processors?


Wishfull thinking?


I wouldn't worry, but it's sure something to wonder about and the waiting is long ... have to give it time while the iPad enjoys the spotlight ... so I think it could be a long while yet before we see something 'shocking' in the 13" class.

My 2C.

I have no confidence, but otherwise agreed. This new Toshiba is what the MBA should have been. Check all the MBA wishlists from before the MBP upgrade, and it is pretty much this what people wished. Only a very small possibility we will get this as well. And if not, everybody will go hum and yeah and continue to be satisfied with their MBA, right? ;)

Huubster
May 7, 2010, 12:23 PM
This toshiba looks good but I would have to read some reviews on it after it comes out before I would buy it. Some major factors in my decision would be:
Build Quality
Amount of heat generated
How many charges the battery is good for
Graphics Power intel igp=no buy

This is a sensible reaction :)

waloshin
May 7, 2010, 12:25 PM
Meh, it will cost $2000. not worth it to me.

Scottsdale
May 7, 2010, 12:29 PM
Nice find Jobsian. You're always good for a thread or two per week, and you didn't disappoint with this one.

A lot of this seems too good to be true... I remember thinking that when the v 2,1 MBA was introduced. Back then, compared to the MB, the MBA was nice and similar except portability, but compared to other ultraportables, the MBA was INCREDIBLE! There was no competition for the v 2,1 MBA. The original MBA failed to meet the claims of Apple as it wasn't really Mac capable. But the 2,1 MBA had everything one could expect from a Mac and more.

I am not putting it past Apple to make such an MBA in Early 2011, but I have ZERO hope for an MBA this year as we can look to the recent MBP update and see ZERO INNOVATION! For the first time I can recall, the MBP updates had ZERO innovation improvements in the update. Thinking about how a company could achieve standard voltage CPUs in an ultraportable that weighs two pounds and is that thin, is amazing. Remember back two years ago Apple was submitting several liquid cooling patent applications for its notebooks. Then there were several more apps last Summer. I have learned over the years that inside information on early prototype testing takes one year or more before it gets released in a product. I believe these patent apps seem to turn up two years before a product is released.

I believe a lot of trade secrets are stolen from insiders at companies and sold to competition. We also see a lot of direct copying of new technology from one product maker to the next. While using a Core i7-620m sounds great in an ultraportable, even if it could be cooled, it's going to use a lot more battery tech than is currently capable to achieve a 5-hour battery. I think the Core i7-620m might be the only standard voltage used and sold as BTO for someone who is happy with a 2-hour battery... especially if it could be charged in ten minutes. I guess the point is if another company can do this, APPLE CAN COPY IT! If Apple doesn't have the resources to care about its Macs anymore, as it's too damned focused on iPhone OS products, then I guess we can just hope Apple copies an ultraportable like this for its next MBA. It's sorta sad to say it, but with the iPhone OS products, Apple has lost its way as a computer company.

I agree with the few posters here that say Apple is now so far behind the competition, or that it's focused on iPhone OS products, or that it doesn't seem to care about the MBA. It is true as Apple hasn't upgraded the MBA since its v 2,1 introduction in October 2008. A lot can happen in 19 months, and in this case the whole competition has caught up in 19 months.

Apple should deliver this product as the v 3,1 MBA at WWDC. It would be great if Jobs had "one more thing" to show us. However, with the recent Macs from Apple, and the complete lack of innovation for recent Mac upgrades, and the long time between updates, I say there is almost ZERO possibility that the next MBA will compete with such an ultraportable. Isn't it sad that Apple has decided to forget about the MBA for so long? For 19 months, the MBA has stayed nearly exactly the same. 19 months is an eternity in the technology age. We can look at this competing ultraportable to see just how badly our innovative Apple has lost its way... too focused on its damned iPhone OS products!

H00513R
May 7, 2010, 12:35 PM
Looks great, but I won't hold my breath. HP and MS both have bowed out for now and I want to see it actually ship before I comment on how this will affect Apple.

chrono1081
May 7, 2010, 02:06 PM
It doesn't run OSX so its virtually useless for me.

Nice specs but the OS is what matters to me. People can chase hardware all day but I'm not going back to an OS that has no built in RAID support, no built in ISO support, no built in Dictionary, no built in spell check, no built in differential backup, no multiple desktop support, etc etc...

tigres
May 7, 2010, 02:16 PM
I have never seen a good looking Toshiba laptop.

This appears pretty slick from the limited shot(s)/photo(s), however who knows how the quality will come out.

However, no OSX is really the killer should all else come true to life. Too bad, MBA update is so needed- but so far away it seems.

ReallyOldGuy
May 7, 2010, 02:30 PM
It doesn't run OSX so its virtually useless for me.

Nice specs but the OS is what matters to me. People can chase hardware all day but I'm not going back to an OS that has no built in RAID support, no built in ISO support, no built in Dictionary, no built in spell check, no built in differential backup, no multiple desktop support, etc etc...

Having left the dark side 398 days ago I certainly can appreciate the specs....but it's still MS driven and I just can't go back. I'll live with my MBA till the new ones arrive and yes I have an iPad and yes I use them both, contrary to popular belief they VERY different. MBA people understand but the rest don't.

Huubster
May 7, 2010, 03:20 PM
It doesn't run OSX so its virtually useless for me.

Nice specs but the OS is what matters to me. People can chase hardware all day but I'm not going back to an OS that has no built in RAID support, no built in ISO support, no built in Dictionary, no built in spell check, no built in differential backup, no multiple desktop support, etc etc...

People for whom OS X is the only obstacle should consider Ubuntu. Does pretty much all of the above, on a Mac and on a PC. Is based on Linux, which is just like OS X a Unix variety. And it has nothing to do with Microsoft (unless you choose to run Windows in VM ware). And is truely open and free!

halledise
May 7, 2010, 03:47 PM
new Airs coming either 18.May or 8.June this year.

the Toshiba looks sweet for sure but as has already been outpointed:

expensive - probably
hot to touch - for sure
Microsoft bound - definitely
Virally prone
can't do OSX
the list goes on.

but if you're a PC then go for it.

best thing out of this thread is that with PC manufacturers pursuing this light and fast form factor one can bet one's boots that Apple Inc won't walk away from the concept.
all are saying that the iPad/iPhone can in no way sub for a 'proper' notebook and the MBPro range are not as ideal a travelling journo/writer's companion due to weight factor.
ergo - the Air lives on

I could well be wrong but I don't think I am

PsyD4Me
May 7, 2010, 04:38 PM
Toshiba makes decent stuff, but i have a hard time believing that this will actually come out

Cheffy Dave
May 7, 2010, 04:39 PM
Wee hoo, This is what the next MBA should be but never will:(
To bad it will never run OSX:rolleyes
In addition, four Toshi Lappies have died prematurely on us, so I think I will pass

gwsat
May 7, 2010, 05:11 PM
Wee hoo, This is what the next MBA should be but never will:(
To bad it will never run OSX:rolleyes
In addition, four Toshi Lappies have died prematurely on us, so I think I will pass
My first laptop was a circa 1987 Toshiba. It had an Intel 80286 chip, ran DOS, and, unsurprisingly, wasn't much of a computer. It was such a bad experience, I didn't get another laptop until I bought a Powerbook G4 in 2003.

A lot of Toshiba gear these days is pretty good, though. I recently bought a USB powered portable 640Gb drive to handle the backups of the Windows 7 installation that I run in a VMware Fusion virtual machine on my MBP. It has been so good, I just bought another one to give to my daughter for her birthday.

bloodycape
May 7, 2010, 07:18 PM
Toshiba has always been know for light weight computers(at least in the ultra-portable segment). If you remember the Toshiba R600 like weighed 2.2lbs or so with out the optical drive and with an SSD(granted it is a 12in device, but it comes with pretty much everything under the sun in terms of ports and connections). Only problem with that machine was slightly below average screen, which for its price would not cut it(again part of the reason I got the Vaio TT instead).

This new machine looks like it could be good, but as other have noted the intel gpu could be a limiting factor for some, and I really doubt this would have a screen as nice as the matte screen on the Vaio Z.

Disavowed
May 7, 2010, 07:28 PM
Nice find Jobsian. You're always good for a thread or two per week, and you didn't disappoint with this one.



Wow, approval from Scottsdale. I'm sure Jobsian:rolleyes: will sleep better tonight.

Scottsdale
May 7, 2010, 10:01 PM
Toshiba has always been know for light weight computers(at least in the ultra-portable segment). If you remember the Toshiba R600 like weighed 2.2lbs or so with out the optical drive and with an SSD(granted it is a 12in device, but it comes with pretty much everything under the sun in terms of ports and connections). Only problem with that machine was slightly below average screen, which for its price would not cut it(again part of the reason I got the Vaio TT instead).

This new machine looks like it could be good, but as other have noted the intel gpu could be a limiting factor for some, and I really doubt this would have a screen as nice as the matte screen on the Vaio Z.

I hope Apple has something (like an MBA) to challenge this Toshiba sooner rather than later. Basically, I hope at least one computer engineer at Apple has been working on an innovative Mac update (hopefully the MBA)! The Mac Pro, MacBook Air, and Mac mini are all terribly overdue for a new model (maybe the MB and soon after the iMacs too)... and as soon as Apple updates all of those, it better have the real MBP update prepared later this year. It has already been seven months since the new iMac was introduced last October (the Mm was bumped, and the MB had a unibody plastic case addition but no real component upgrade).

Huubster
May 8, 2010, 01:40 AM
Basically, I hope at least one computer engineer at Apple has been working on an innovative Mac update (hopefully the MBA)!

I also hope this. But I am beginning to get the impression that Apple has joined the dark side just as well and are going for easy money.

The recent big success of the Mac is thanks to the iToys users, who buy outdated hardware anyway simply because it has an Apple logo. imho this is comparable to the way PC users taking Microsoft products for granted.

mmulin
May 8, 2010, 02:30 AM
People for whom OS X is the only obstacle should consider Ubuntu. Does pretty much all of the above, on a Mac and on a PC. Is based on Linux, which is just like OS X a Unix variety. And it has nothing to do with Microsoft (unless you choose to run Windows in VM ware). And is truely open and free!

Minus the software which runs MacOSX only. This is the reason for wanting MacOSX on my part. Of course for everything is an alternative but I am talking professional software here and the Linux catalogue for that just doesn't cut it. That said, just for my partial work purposes, *niX admin & programming, I don't mind running around with a penguin ;). As for the John Doe consumer, he surely won't bother to figure out how to sync his iPhone on Linux which until now is still a big NoNo.

pukifloyd
May 8, 2010, 02:34 AM
This looks pretty damn awesome!
if these specs are true then it can give the air a serious competition (unless they update it too)

Cant wait for WWDC!

Scottsdale
May 8, 2010, 02:51 AM
I also hope this. But I am beginning to get the impression that Apple has joined the dark side just as well and are going for easy money.

The recent big success of the Mac is thanks to the iToys users, who buy outdated hardware anyway simply because it has an Apple logo. imho this is comparable to the way PC users taking Microsoft products for granted.

I agree with the term "dark side" and Apple. Seriously, AAPL has more market cap than M$. Most here don't want to admit it, but it's pretty sick when Gruber, at Daring Fireball, confirms that everyone stopped working on OS X 10.7 to work on the iPhone OS and iPad (how is Apple going to sell future Macs if it forgets about the OS that is its competitive advantage). I would call that "dark." I would think that Apple should remember what got them to here. It was the completely loyal and cult following of the Mac buyers. I definitely agree that Apple is too focused on the iPhone OS products. It almost seems like they need to split it into Apple Computers and Apple iGoods. That way each division could work on always providing progress for their respective product group. A lot of Mac fans seem pretty disappointed lately.

I hope Apple has "just" shortchanged its PRO customers and it sees the MBA as a consumer/luxury product and gives it a real update at WWDC. All AAPL shareholders should be watching Apple. It seems so focused on its iPad that it has completely lost sight of the vision for the professional Mac customers. Consumers are good business, but there's no reason to abandon the Mac to pursue the iPad/iPhone. Why not use some of that $40B for some engineers for the Macs?

halledise
May 10, 2010, 07:23 AM
new Airs coming either 18.May or 8.June this year.
ergo - the Air lives on

I could well be wrong but I don't think I am

ahem http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/10/macbook-air-to-update-this-week/
:D

Veinticinco
May 10, 2010, 07:57 AM
It doesn't run OSX so its virtually useless for me.

Nice specs but the OS is what matters to me.
Hear hear. You know I really don't see the point of these threads in this MBA area.

If you think this is somehow relevant in terms of pointing out the MBA competition, you're deluded as no MBA in the near future will even attempt to match this sort of architecture.

On the other hand, if you want to salivate over top spec hardware crippled by a suboptimal OS then fine go and self-abuse yourselves on a PC forum and leave the rest of us to very patiently wait for the new MBA, which it is rumoured (see today's front page and current lead story) MAY just well be that very thing.

Veinticinco
May 10, 2010, 08:04 AM
ahem … http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/10/macbook-air-to-update-this-week/
:D
Aye, lot of know-alls predicting WWDC same as they've been predicting every other non-existent milestone for the past year ("oooh the second Tuesday after Lent but only if it's a full moon, there's ALWAYS a new portable release at that time, isn't there?").

Abyssgh0st
May 10, 2010, 10:44 AM
Aye, lot of know-alls predicting WWDC same as they've been predicting every other non-existent milestone for the past year ("oooh the second Tuesday after Lent but only if it's a full moon, there's ALWAYS a new portable release at that time, isn't there?").

Did you even read the article? It doesn't even mention the WWDC.

This source was previously able to pinpoint the recent MacBook Pro updates a week prior to their release.

Veinticinco
May 10, 2010, 10:53 AM
Did you even read the article? It doesn't even mention the WWDC.
As the article says 'this week' I thought it was abundantly clear I was referring to posters (not the article) who state as FACT not opinion, the likely release dates of Apple products.

It's everywhere you look on the MBA prediction threads, pre-WWDC, post-WWDC, during WWDC, like Baskin & Robbins there's a theory for everyone. Sometimes the same posters even contradict themselves within the same thread (no prizes for guessing who, he admits it).

halledise
May 10, 2010, 02:58 PM
x

highADP
May 10, 2010, 05:02 PM
Apple should deliver this product as the v 3,1 MBA at WWDC. It would be great if Jobs had "one more thing" to show us. However, with the recent Macs from Apple, and the complete lack of innovation for recent Mac upgrades, and the long time between updates, I say there is almost ZERO possibility that the next MBA will compete with such an ultraportable. Isn't it sad that Apple has decided to forget about the MBA for so long? For 19 months, the MBA has stayed nearly exactly the same. 19 months is an eternity in the technology age. We can look at this competing ultraportable to see just how badly our innovative Apple has lost its way... too focused on its damned iPhone OS products!

Absolutely agree especially with your last sentence...

cleric
May 13, 2010, 05:10 PM
You guys do realize the ssd alone costs significantly more than the macbook air. This thing is an easy $10,000 computer maybe more with their magic battery. Yea its better than the macbook air but the macbook air retails around $1500 and makes apple a profit at that price.

gwsat
May 13, 2010, 05:27 PM
You guys do realize the ssd alone costs significantly more than the macbook air. This thing is an easy $10,000 computer maybe more with their magic battery. Yea its better than the macbook air but the macbook air retails around $1500 and makes apple a profit at that price.
Yep, the Toshiba is like the fully tricked out Sony Vaio Z Signature series laptop, with 8Gb of RAM, a BD burner-player, and a 512Gb SSD. The downside is that the Z sells for $4,500. At least the Z does seem to be currently available from Sony Style.

skate71290
May 13, 2010, 06:25 PM
Goodbyer air, I just don't see where it will fit anymore

holy **** dude you have some serious Apple Hardware! and yes, while the Apple laptops are considerably far behind (Hardware Spec-Wise) every other manufacturer, the Air is even further behind that, with only 2GB Fixed RAM! at least the MBPs can have up to 8GB (2X4 SO DIMM), i will be getting a new Apple laptop after WWDC, just hope they make the Air with 8GB optional RAM

Scottsdale
May 13, 2010, 06:52 PM
You guys do realize the ssd alone costs significantly more than the macbook air. This thing is an easy $10,000 computer maybe more with their magic battery. Yea its better than the macbook air but the macbook air retails around $1500 and makes apple a profit at that price.

$10K? Huh? I thought it was mentioned over $2k? Did it really say $10k for the Toshiba ultraportable?

Honestly, I wish Apple would make BTO configurations with the absolute ultimate in components for all of its Macs. Why shouldn't someone be able to buy a $10k MBA if they want to? Why isn't there an option to get an ATI 5870 in the 27" iMac or even MBP? Why isn't there an option to buy a current MBA with 8 GB of RAM and 1 GB of VRAM? The Mac Pro is the biggest joke of them all... one can buy a $25K Mac Pro that doesn't even have an ATI 5870 graphics card or the capability to watch let alone burn a BluRay movie made for a major movie studio! Why isn't there a BluRay OPTION for those willing to drop $500 to upgrade their Mac?

Raje
May 13, 2010, 08:42 PM
$10K? Huh? I thought it was mentioned over $2k? Did it really say $10k for the Toshiba ultraportable?

Honestly, I wish Apple would make BTO configurations with the absolute ultimate in components for all of its Macs. Why shouldn't someone be able to buy a $10k MBA if they want to? Why isn't there an option to get an ATI 5870 in the 27" iMac or even MBP? Why isn't there an option to buy a current MBA with 8 GB of RAM and 1 GB of VRAM? The Mac Pro is the biggest joke of them all... one can buy a $25K Mac Pro that doesn't even have an ATI 5870 graphics card or the capability to watch let alone burn a BluRay movie made for a major movie studio! Why isn't there a BluRay OPTION for those willing to drop $500 to upgrade their Mac?
+1

I don't think it mentioned anything about price, but the Toshiba will be expensive.

MartiNZ
May 13, 2010, 11:33 PM
Honestly, I wish Apple would make BTO configurations with the absolute ultimate in components for all of its Macs. Why shouldn't someone be able to buy a $10k MBA if they want to? Why isn't there an option to get an ATI 5870 in the 27" iMac or even MBP? Why isn't there an option to buy a current MBA with 8 GB of RAM and 1 GB of VRAM? The Mac Pro is the biggest joke of them all... one can buy a $25K Mac Pro that doesn't even have an ATI 5870 graphics card or the capability to watch let alone burn a BluRay movie made for a major movie studio! Why isn't there a BluRay OPTION for those willing to drop $500 to upgrade their Mac?

It is always fun to pimp out the MP specs on the store online and see how high the price will go, I think it's more like $60k for the NZ store :).

A lot of good points here and in the rest of the thread. WWDC seems to have gone some way towards abandoning the Mac side of things this time around. Maybe we'll see a new Air, but at this point I would say it may be even more likely that they announce the ability to develop for the iPad ... on the iPad, and that would pretty much be curtains.

Scottsdale
May 14, 2010, 08:45 AM
I found the Toshiba information genuinely interesting... much more so than a comparison between the iPad and MBA.

gwsat
May 14, 2010, 09:13 AM
I found the Toshiba information genuinely interesting... much more so than a comparison between the iPad and MBA.
Yeah, I, too, don't much like the threads started by some of the iPad fanboys who claim, contrary to the demonstrable facts, that the iPad is too a substitute for an MBP. I love my iPad and give Apple a lot of credit for having, again, come up with a better mousetrap. The iPad does what it does better than any computing device ever before offered to the public. Nevertheless, anybody who seriously contends that it is a substitute for a real computer needs help.:) Some of the other iPad v. MBA threads, however, have made more sense to me. I have thought it useful to see the strengths and weaknesses of each device explored.

If the MBA gets upgraded enough to allow me to use it as my primary computer, I will buy one. Otherwise I will buy a 13 inch MBP and upgrade its RAM to 8Gb and add a 256Gb SSD. Either computer I buy, though, will be used in conjunction with my iPad, which will still be a better choice for use while I'm wandering around.

Scottsdale
May 14, 2010, 02:43 PM
Yeah, I, too, don't much like the threads started by some of the iPad fanboys who claim, contrary to the demonstrable facts, that the iPad is too a substitute for an MBP. I love my iPad and give Apple a lot of credit for having, again, come up with a better mousetrap. The iPad does what it does better than any computing device ever before offered to the public. Nevertheless, anybody who seriously contends that it is a substitute for a real computer needs help.:) Some of the other iPad v. MBA threads, however, have made more sense to me. I have thought it useful to see the strengths and weaknesses of each device explored.

If the MBA gets upgraded enough to allow me to use it as my primary computer, I will buy one. Otherwise I will buy a 13 inch MBP and upgrade its RAM to 8Gb and add a 256Gb SSD. Either computer I buy, though, will be used in conjunction with my iPad, which will still be a better choice for use while I'm wandering around.

Why are our threads being edited? That really ticks me off. Both of us had our threads edited... it's ridiculous, as there was nothing wrong with either of them.

gwsat
May 14, 2010, 03:01 PM
Why are our threads being edited? That really ticks me off. Both of us had our threads edited... it's ridiculous, as there was nothing wrong with either of them.
I think I may know what happened. When the mod took down the silly post complaining about this thread, a good decision in my view, he also decided to take down our responses to it. I can live with mine being removed because it criticized an out of line post that is no longer here. Thus, in my case at least, there was no harm so there's no foul.

teaneedz
May 19, 2010, 11:01 PM
Most here don't want to admit it, but it's pretty sick when Gruber, at Daring Fireball, confirms that everyone stopped working on OS X 10.7 to work on the iPhone OS and iPad (how is Apple going to sell future Macs if it forgets about the OS that is its competitive advantage). I would call that "dark." I would think that Apple should remember what got them to here. It was the completely loyal and cult following of the Mac buyers. I definitely agree that Apple is too focused on the iPhone OS products. It almost seems like they need to split it into Apple Computers and Apple iGoods. That way each division could work on always providing progress for their respective product group. A lot of Mac fans seem pretty disappointed lately.


Thank you and well said. The current product line is leaving too much room for competitors to take advantage of. My wife asked me who I was when I told her I was thinking about going outside of Apple for my next laptop. I won't go over to Windows but Ubuntu is looking mighty good to me these days.

Jaro65
May 20, 2010, 01:57 AM
$10K? Huh? I thought it was mentioned over $2k? Did it really say $10k for the Toshiba ultraportable?

Honestly, I wish Apple would make BTO configurations with the absolute ultimate in components for all of its Macs. Why shouldn't someone be able to buy a $10k MBA if they want to? Why isn't there an option to get an ATI 5870 in the 27" iMac or even MBP? Why isn't there an option to buy a current MBA with 8 GB of RAM and 1 GB of VRAM? The Mac Pro is the biggest joke of them all... one can buy a $25K Mac Pro that doesn't even have an ATI 5870 graphics card or the capability to watch let alone burn a BluRay movie made for a major movie studio! Why isn't there a BluRay OPTION for those willing to drop $500 to upgrade their Mac?

Because SJ wants Apple to make as much cash as possible through as few products as possible. Makes things really simple for Apple from so many angles (design, marketing, contract manufacturing, product line management, distribution...you name it). Plus it fits with his minimalist ideas re everything.

But, you knew all that already. :)

Like it or not (and while completely agreeing with what you're proposing) this is simply how things are.

cleric
May 20, 2010, 03:27 AM
Sorry not $10k but someone posted that the Sony Vaio-Z with similar specs is $4500 so maybe just above that? Either way my point was apple isn't going to triple the price point even for the nicer one.

gwsat
May 20, 2010, 08:51 AM
Sorry not $10k but someone posted that the Sony Vaio-Z with similar specs is $4500 so maybe just above that? Either way my point was apple isn't going to triple the price point even for the nicer one.
You are right, the loaded Vaio Z you referred to goes for $4,499.99 at Sony Style. (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666073686) Sony even has them in stock, finally.

thinkdesign
May 20, 2010, 09:13 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

This is a serious question, not rhetorical: If I bought this and took it to a computer repair/etc. shop and paid them to follow the endless directions needed to REMOVE any JUNK-WARE that Toshiba may have infested it with... What would that cost me ?

Thunderhawks
May 20, 2010, 09:35 AM
Goodbye air, I just don't see where it will fit anymore

TOTALLY AGREED!

The trend is small and light as possible with all the most used features (e-mail, surfing, read stuff)

Thus the drive for cloud computing by Apple, Google etc.

As connections get faster, we will all have a "workhorse computer" at home or the office, which we can access with NTR , LogMeIn or GoToMyPC and whoever else enters that field.

Just did it from Germany and it's awesome.

Already predicted the ipad would look like an AIR without hinges and keyboard.

So, I think that over time, the ipad will be available in other sizes ( Small, medium, large and XL:-) and have many or most of the AiR features added.

deus_ex_machina
May 20, 2010, 12:34 PM
People for whom OS X is the only obstacle should consider Ubuntu. Does pretty much all of the above, on a Mac and on a PC. Is based on Linux, which is just like OS X a Unix variety. And it has nothing to do with Microsoft (unless you choose to run Windows in VM ware). And is truely open and free!

Very true - the only difference is it doesn't fit with Apple's slogan "Just Works". Getting Ubuntu setup can be a trial depending on your machine and the distro.

cleric
May 20, 2010, 07:11 PM
Very true - the only difference is it doesn't fit with Apple's slogan "Just Works". Getting Ubuntu setup can be a trial depending on your machine and the distro.

Yea its a different philosophy not to mention dpkg distros tend to just be krusty in general.

Huubster
May 21, 2010, 06:20 AM
Very true - the only difference is it doesn't fit with Apple's slogan "Just Works". Getting Ubuntu setup can be a trial depending on your machine and the distro.

You are talking Ubuntu of old. Tested it on my MBA and installing it is as easy as OS X. And everything works without any tweak.
Ubuntu has come a very long way in the past few years.

EDIT: Obviously not so easy. Give it a few months and it should be sorted by the Linux community.
http://questier.com/tag/vaio-z/

Jobsian
Jun 3, 2010, 10:21 AM
False Alarm

Jobsian
Jun 3, 2010, 10:27 AM
False Alarm

Jobsian
Jun 3, 2010, 10:32 AM
On reviewing the pics on the first page, this doesn't look like it's the same notebook - apologies if this is so and it would seem to be as well because the notebook above has a low voltage arrandale.

I'm now almost certain that they're not the same notebook

Scottsdale
Jun 4, 2010, 11:18 AM
On reviewing the pics on the first page, this doesn't look like it's the same notebook - apologies if this is so and it would seem to be as well because the notebook above has a low voltage arrandale.

I'm now almost certain that they're not the same notebook

Not even close. Why did you think it was the same notebook? It seriously doesn't look the same nor contain any of the specs of the one you initially reported, does it?

Jobsian
Jun 4, 2010, 11:40 AM
Not even close. Why did you think it was the same notebook? It seriously doesn't look the same nor contain any of the specs of the one you initially reported, does it?
I had a vague reference image in my head the veracity of which I didn't check properly before I posted, posts edited accordingly.

Scottsdale
Jun 4, 2010, 11:45 AM
I had a vague reference image in my head the veracity of which I didn't check properly before I posted, posts edited accordingly.

Must have been too excited and hopeful that it meant Apple would have to answer to the challenge, LOL. I sure hope we all get excited Monday with a new MBA. I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in the article on the front page of MR today? Especially when the MBA was thought to have an 80% chance of update at WWDC, based on another rumor site.

Jobsian
Jun 4, 2010, 11:59 AM
Must have been too excited and hopeful that it meant Apple would have to answer to the challenge, LOL. I sure hope we all get excited Monday with a new MBA. I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in the article on the front page of MR today? Especially when the MBA was thought to have an 80% chance of update at WWDC, based on another rumor site.
Haha exactly, yes I saw that Gizmodo article which gave me some hope (even though it wasn't based on anything concrete!), but unfortunately no mention from the MacRumor Eds :(

Still, it's all speculation isn't it :)

Metlin
Jun 6, 2010, 11:47 AM
Goodbyer air, I just don't see where it will fit anymore

TOTALLY AGREED!

The trend is small and light as possible with all the most used features (e-mail, surfing, read stuff)

Thus the drive for cloud computing by Apple, Google etc.

As connections get faster, we will all have a "workhorse computer" at home or the office, which we can access with NTR , LogMeIn or GoToMyPC and whoever else enters that field.

Just did it from Germany and it's awesome.

Already predicted the ipad would look like an AIR without hinges and keyboard.

So, I think that over time, the ipad will be available in other sizes ( Small, medium, large and XL:-) and have many or most of the AiR features added.

The iPad is nowhere near being a "real computer". The iPad cannot be used even for menial office tasks (e.g. building a presentation or an excel model).

There will always be room for a "real" ultra-portable computer, and Air fills that niche.

gwsat
Jun 6, 2010, 01:04 PM
The iPad is nowhere near being a "real computer". The iPad cannot be used even for menial office tasks (e.g. building a presentation or an excel model).

There will always be room for a "real" ultra-portable computer, and Air fills that niche.
I have had an iPad since shortly after its release date and can confirm that, in its present iteration, the iPad falls far short of being a real computer. Until and unless Apple dramatically improves the iPad's functionality, there is still a place for the MBA.

pharmx
Jun 6, 2010, 02:01 PM
The iPad is nowhere near being a "real computer". The iPad cannot be used even for menial office tasks (e.g. building a presentation or an excel model).

There will always be room for a "real" ultra-portable computer, and Air fills that niche.

I have had an iPad since shortly after its release date and can confirm that, in its present iteration, the iPad falls far short of being a real computer. Until and unless Apple dramatically improves the iPad's functionality, there is still a place for the MBA.

While I agree 100% that an iPad is not a replacement for an MBA (for people who needs its unique feature set, like being an ultra-portable that runs OS X), I think it's misleading to say that the iPad "cannot be used even for menial office tasks". The two examples you mentioned (building a presentation or an excel model) are both covered by Apple's own Keynote and Numbers app...and that's before considering all the third party apps that are already out or being developed.

As an owner of both, I use them in completely different circumstances. The iPad seems to replace my iPod Touch more than my MBA.

Metlin
Jun 6, 2010, 06:09 PM
While I agree 100% that an iPad is not a replacement for an MBA (for people who needs its unique feature set, like being an ultra-portable that runs OS X), I think it's misleading to say that the iPad "cannot be used even for menial office tasks". The two examples you mentioned (building a presentation or an excel model) are both covered by Apple's own Keynote and Numbers app...and that's before considering all the third party apps that are already out or being developed.

As an owner of both, I use them in completely different circumstances. The iPad seems to replace my iPod Touch more than my MBA.

My bad; you're right, of course -- you can use Apple's alternatives to create a presentation or a model. But I was bemoaning more the lack of an accessible/searchable filem anager where I could store and search said presentations or models, rather than the tools themselves.

I have an application on my iPhone called Readdle Docs that acts as a filemanager for the iPhone's filesystem. While I'm sure one could use such an application for the iPad, it seems like a workaround.

But most importantly -- I'm unaware of the ability to multi-task (e.g. I'm making a presentation and I'm searching the web and my machine for documents and images to be used; or I'm building a model with data from an external source).

Hence my complaint on the inability of the iPad to fulfill basic tasks. I apologize for not being particularly clear!

That said, as someone who's flown half a million miles in just the past couple of years, the small size made a HUGE difference. I already lug around a heavy ThinkPad with me for work, and the last thing I wanted was another bulky machine to lug around the world. The MBA fits that niche very nicely.

gwsat
Jun 6, 2010, 07:22 PM
Hence my complaint on the inability of the iPad to fulfill basic tasks. I apologize for not being particularly clear!

That said, as someone who's flown half a million miles in just the past couple of years, the small size made a HUGE difference. I already lug around a heavy ThinkPad with me for work, and the last thing I wanted was another bulky machine to lug around the world. The MBA fits that niche very nicely.
This is how I feel about my iPad, too. Despite its many significant weaknesses, it is so small and light and does the things it can do so well, it's easy, maybe even sensible, to overlook its weaknesses. The danger of such thinking, of course, is the danger that one might be deluded into thinking the iPad is a replacement for a real computer that runs a real OS. It's not.

pharmx
Jun 6, 2010, 07:44 PM
My bad; you're right, of course -- you can use Apple's alternatives to create a presentation or a model. But I was bemoaning more the lack of an accessible/searchable filem anager where I could store and search said presentations or models, rather than the tools themselves.

I have an application on my iPhone called Readdle Docs that acts as a filemanager for the iPhone's filesystem. While I'm sure one could use such an application for the iPad, it seems like a workaround.

But most importantly -- I'm unaware of the ability to multi-task (e.g. I'm making a presentation and I'm searching the web and my machine for documents and images to be used; or I'm building a model with data from an external source).

Hence my complaint on the inability of the iPad to fulfill basic tasks. I apologize for not being particularly clear!

That said, as someone who's flown half a million miles in just the past couple of years, the small size made a HUGE difference. I already lug around a heavy ThinkPad with me for work, and the last thing I wanted was another bulky machine to lug around the world. The MBA fits that niche very nicely.

Regarding the file system, I doubt it will ever be the way you want. It's one of the fundamental differences between a mobile OS like iPhoneOS and a full fledged OS like Mac OSX. Opening up the file system would defeat the purpose of the closed system Apple implements. Although the workaround apps will improve with time, there will always be that restricted access to the file system. This is one of the reasons why the MBA shines as being the only ultra-portable that can run a full fledged Mac OSX/Windows7.

Regarding multi-tasking, that is coming in the next iPhoneOS update, so it should make its way to the iPad relatively soon, probably within a few months. Although I guess one could argue that it's not "true" multi-tasking, it should definitely be able to handle the situations you described.

While the MBA could potentially serve as a person's main and/or sole computer, the iPad definitely cannot. However, the iPad could potentially serve as a person's main and/or sole entertainment device. While there is some overlap between functionality of the two devices (depending on what people use their MBA or iPad for), I still maintain that they serve different purposes and are for different target populations. The versatility of the MBA is why people mistakenly think that a 13" MBP or iPad is a substitute, when (in my opinion) it is clearly not.

Metlin
Jun 6, 2010, 08:17 PM
This is how I feel about my iPad, too. Despite its many significant weaknesses, it is so small and light and does the things it can do so well, it's easy, maybe even sensible, to overlook its weaknesses. The danger of such thinking, of course, is the danger that one might be deluded into thinking the iPad is a replacement for a real computer that runs a real OS. It's not.

Indeed! In fact, it is just this that made the choice between the iPad and the MBA particularly difficult. :)

But on some level, I wanted a real computer, and the MBA provided that. To pharmx's point below, the fact that it was the best and smallest system that could run a real *nix-like OS that made a huge difference to me.

Regarding the file system, I doubt it will ever be the way you want. It's one of the fundamental differences between a mobile OS like iPhoneOS and a full fledged OS like Mac OSX. Opening up the file system would defeat the purpose of the closed system Apple implements. Although the workaround apps will improve with time, there will always be that restricted access to the file system. This is one of the reasons why the MBA shines as being the only ultra-portable that can run a full fledged Mac OSX/Windows7.

Regarding multi-tasking, that is coming in the next iPhoneOS update, so it should make its way to the iPad relatively soon, probably within a few months. Although I guess one could argue that it's not "true" multi-tasking, it should definitely be able to handle the situations you described.

While the MBA could potentially serve as a person's main and/or sole computer, the iPad definitely cannot. However, the iPad could potentially serve as a person's main and/or sole entertainment device. While there is some overlap between functionality of the two devices (depending on what people use their MBA or iPad for), I still maintain that they serve different purposes and are for different target populations. The versatility of the MBA is why people mistakenly think that a 13" MBP or iPad is a substitute, when (in my opinion) it is clearly not.

Oh absolutely. You pretty much summed up my sentiments -- and my reasons -- for choosing the MBA.

Let me be the first to say that I've no expectation whatsoever that the iPad would be a substitute for a computer in any way, even a secondary one.

In my mind, the iPad is an entertainment device for consuming content. And the MBA is a basic, minimal "office" computer sans bells and whistles, which can be used to create and consume content. Even if the iPad did all that I just complained about, I would still go with an MBA because of the iPad will never be (and shouldn't ever be expected to) be a "real" computer. It will always fall short, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

DJ Kwai
Jun 21, 2010, 11:33 AM
Here's the recently released Toshiba:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/21/toshiba-portege-r700-slides-in-with-a-thin-design-core-power-an/

Not quite the same as the leaked model, but probably just the lower-end version of the same thing. I wonder if they will be releasing the originally leaked version at all. This protege r700 certainly surpasses the MBA in terms of specs and price, and matches it in terms of weight - but of course it doesn't have OSX or the beautiful form factor of the MBA.

I'm just hoping that Apple really does come with some sort of update soon. I've got carte blanche to purchase any laptop I want for my new university position, and portability is a high priority for me.

DJ Kwai
Jun 21, 2010, 11:34 AM
Oh yeah, I will be curious to see if the actual leaked Toshiba makes an appearance too...

bloodycape
Jun 21, 2010, 03:10 PM
I like the fact that you can get usb 3.0, but I don't like the fact that you have to get the docking station to get it. Also, wish they kept it 12in it's predecessors the R600 and R500, but hope that they used a better matte screen than the R600, which bleh compared to the Vaio TT, and MBA.