Are YOU going to buy an new Powermac?

[topicolo]

Just curious how much pent up demand there is for the new Powermacs:)

[Chaszmyr]

Absolutely gonna buy one! Right now i am using a 733 PowerMac, and supposedly the new ones will run at about 4 times the speed of this one. Also, i dont think we will be seeing any G5 earlier than March 2003.

[King Cobra]

Nah. I'll stick with what I have. I don't need anything faster right now.

Maybe after I do about 2 or 4 years of college I'll see what chip Apple is calling the CPU by then and I'll get an old G5 for about $1000. :p

[ericb88]

We're seein G5's till 2004, I'm gonna wait a month or 2 after, and a;so check barefeats to see what kinda performance we;re gettin.

[Shrek]

Eh, errm, no. I'm waiting on the arrival of G5 iMacs! But if they're not here before the end of the year, I'll buy an iMac anyway. Apple rocks! :D IBM rules! :D Motorola stinks! :mad:

[Mr. Anderson]

I'll be buying a new machine sometime in the next year. I've got a real need for extra speed - but I need more than just speed bump, I need an order of magnitude in processing power.

Whether its a G5 or a quad 1.5 G4 I'll wait and see. Although the Power4 really has me interested - 16 processors, oh yeah!

D

[vitruvius]

im using a PowerMac G3 266 beige tower at work

-What do u think??:D

[AlphaTech]

I won't be looking to purchase a new Mac for another ~2 years. I picked up the 800MHz TiBook within a month of when they were released, and it more then suits my needs.

I will be interested after MSWF 2004, or whenever Apple releases a system (after that) that I simply must have. Until then, I will continue to update the game pc and add items to my Harley. At least with the Harley, I won't loose any money. :D

[King Cobra]

duke, I can't wait for that either. But the cost must be through the roof with 16 processors.
I wonder who in their right mind will NEED ALL 16 cores for data. Won't people be happy enough with a dual G5?

vitruvius, I'm using my 233MHz iMac and you are spamming. :D :p

[SilvorX]

i hopefully will, was talking to a guy from the local mac store n he said that there'll be new macs at the end of month but everyone...or most knows it'll probably be released out then :S
if the specs/price is right, i'll buy one, if its too expensive n not appealing enough specs, might just get a g4 imac or wait till jan

[MacBandit]

My B/W G3 400 barely cuts it anymore and I don't think I want to just upgrads the CPU if they're going to have DDR Ram.

Speed Freak coming through.

[arogge]

I hope Apple has something really good to add to the PowerMac line. I'm thinking of virtually-silent operation, faster hard disks, faster CPUs, entry-level to mid-range professional graphics options, and lower prices. I'm pretty satisfied with the current PowerMacs for what I want to do in the next year, so I'd take lower prices if nothing else. I want to buy a PowerMac, but I can't justify spending $2,500+ on the current models.

[SPG]

The hypothetical specs looked good enough in the last round of rumors that I've psyched myself up enough to be willing to buy one of these new boxes to replace my machine at home.
What I'm really hoping for is a mid level DP. $2499 or less with Jaguar. If that comes out I will plunk down the card on the spot. If there is going to be a long delay for actual delivery than I may just wait for the G5 (I've got a project that will be over in another month and a half).
I know that there is a G5 down the road and maybe something even better from IBM that will blow even that away, but I've gotten three good years out of my G4 and now it's starting to show its age.

[bousozoku]

Too late for me as I recently bought a dual 800. I got tired of waiting for the next big thing. I just needed something that was faster than my PowerMac G3/400 and it definitely is that. :)

[agoldweber]

no need to wait for me. I got in on the Crystal Clear rebate and am happy for it! my flat-panel is sitting next to me, my G4 arrives tomorrow!

am I missing out on DDR, etc, etc.? yes...

but you know what? I've been making a living in design on my PM 7600/120 for half a dozen years.

I think I can live with a Dual 1Ghz and get more than my money's worth.

[Macette]

in june 03 my B&W G3 350 will be four years old. it's been a great four years... but i just used my housemate's g4 imac to do some email and stuff and nearly died at how fast it was. i mean, i used G4s before of course, but not to do general everyday things. it kills.

so i will be buying whatever is new and hip in june next year.. unless the g5s (or whatever) are not out yet, in which case i will just wait some more.

i'm still as in love with my G3 as i was the first day i got it.

[Chaszmyr]

Macette, you realize a dual 1ghz G4 is like 7x as fast as that thing youre runnin? heh

[cyks]

I'm currently running a PMac 7500. It'll be 7 next month (which is roughly 3,547,986,413,210,032 in computer years). Been updated a few times- although not too recently - 300Mhz G3 in it right now. Either way, it's WAY past due for an update. This past MWNY proved it to me... I can deal with not running the latest and greatest OS- but when I can't even run the new iTunes...things have gone too far. I was hoping to get a new system when they announced them at the show- but we all know how that went. Now the 13th seems to be the next big hopeful date. It better be since I can't deal with this much longer. New release or not I'll be placing an order this week...hopefully in excess of 1Ghz.

[edesignuk]

I won't be since I only got my DP1Ghz a few months back and it's more than quick enough for me...and that's before I get Jaguar on it! :D

[mnm]

hope they do dual processors accross the range to justify the title "power" mac, won't be impressed with something marginally quicker than an iMac pitched at serious professionals, need something to work with all this video/3d software coming our way. Maya 4.5 on jaguar on a dual processor G4 1.5GHz please! Think about it, Pixar, another Jobs company it still using silicon graphics machines, they must be ready to upgrade to macs!

[Tiauguinho]

I've got my PowerMac G4 DP 1Ghz on the 5th of July... It's fast as hell! My Ti 550 is put to shame by this baby! I will most certanly buy a new PowerMac when the 2nd Revision of the G5 comes out, and i think that it will be near July to September 2003. Until then I've got a very powerful machine that suits my needs very well! Never but never did I feel that it was slow! And one thing that I have to congratulate Apple Macintosh... Thanks for the User Experience that I'm having!!! I Love OS X! I Love My Mac's! Hell!! I love it all!!!!

[rugby]

I'm definitely getting something. Ideally a low=end tower and a 22" acd would be beautiful and it's what I"m shooting for if Apple included dvd burners in all models. If not I"ll custom order it but that will add about 4 years to my shipping time.

[pev]

Well, my G3-400 is never fast enough for running Logic with many plugins as well as rejecting all the IDE drives Ive tried adding. Ive been waiting for a new Mac with some level of improved architecture and it looks like finally this is the first major improvement since AGP came in. My credit card is primed and ready to go. Of course the ADC hardware discount helps a lot!

~Pev

[iwantanewmac]

I won't buy a new mac until I see some REAL performance gain. Not yesterdays hardware in a fancy case or hardware that's in peecee's for ages allready.
I want some really new stuff.
And still PROtools for X!!!!! Give it to me!!!! :)

[iGav]

I won't be....... I'm looking to buy a new TiBook and a powerMac in Jan or Feb of next year, depending on the likely hood of new models around that time it may be Jan, or if it takes until a March revision...... then I'll be buying.......

Don't know what I'll be doing with my current TiBook, unsure whether to trade it in on a new TiBook, sell it or give it to my mum.........

[Faeylyn]

This is a stupid poll. Are you going to buy some unknown something at some unknown time in the future? What?

[HasanDaddy]

I'm considering buying the new PowerMac......I'm editing a feature movie right now, so I want a FCP system that can haul some major ass!

Although....I might hold out for the G5? What do you guys think?

Lastly.......if I were to wait for the G5, could I transfer all of my current RAM and Harddisks into it? I have a 733 mhz G4, with top of the line Apple Ram and HardDrives......will the G5 still be compatible with this stuff?

THANK YOU!

[Angelus]

Ya il probably uy one,been waiting over two years for apple to get a nice power mac spec together.didnt bother with last revision cos they stuck with ata60 hard drives and pc133.it was long but its finally worth it.

[xelterran]

well im on a 933 g4 at the moment and its very fast so i think ill probably hold off a bit until they get to at least 1.5ghz or g5/power4 - hopefully in the next 6 months!

[wake up Jobs!!!]

If it has a baseline model of at least 1ghz, ill buy that or the middle one!

-GaBe-

[BJNY]

I'll buy if Apple offers a new tower enclosure that can be turned on its side to fit in a rack.
Okay, I'll buy no matter what comes out.:D

Then I'll buy whatever PowerBook revision comes out in Sept./Oct./Nov.
to replace my TiBook 550MHz DVD. Hopefully it'll be 1GHz.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Angelus
Ya il probably uy one,been waiting over two years for apple to get a nice power mac spec together.didnt bother with last revision cos they stuck with ata60 hard drives and pc133.it was long but its finally worth it.

FYI, there is no such animal as ATA60....

Use correct/real terms, and your creditability will reflect it. Be lazy and people here will not take anything you put down to hold any value at all. Even on the off chance you are correct once in a while. :p

[RealityCheque]

It'll all be about performance. PowerMacs have been woefully behind PCs in their hardware performance and it seems to get worse with every product cycle. Having said that, if Apple finally catches up and provides 333 DDR RAM and a significantly improved front-side bus to make the new RAM worthwhile, I'll bite. Add a headphone jack and hopefully a USB2 and Firewire port on the front; 8x AGP inside; the standard upgrade to 1.4 or 1.6 GHz CPU on the top end; and a free 1-year membership to .Mac and it's all I'm waiting for. :D

PS:, I think G5s are still a year away -- probably to be THE major announcement at the July MacWorld and available 4-8 weeks later.

[elensil]

A new PowerMac seems to be the best deal. iMacs & eMacs would not have DDR for a while. I think I will wait for the appearance of the rumored Junkyard and give my old PC in. $2500 for 36 months would be somewhere around $80 per month.

[365]

I just cashed in my G4 400 on eBay, I've had it two years this month which is the longest I ever kept the same machine. It's still a great piece of kit but it's time for a change. I was going to get a new dual 1ghz but by the time you consider that memory etc. will be different I decided to wait. I think the new machines will represent a quantum leap in all areas not just the processors.

So yeah I'm chomping at the bit.

[Kethoticus]

I'm in agreement with a lot of people in this thread. I'm gonna wait to buy a new machine for a while, but it's not for many of the reasons I've read here. Unfortunately, I just don't have the bucks.

And then I ask myself, what do I need a brand new machine for? To keep up with the Joneses? To do editing on? To surf the web? To work on personal web pages? I don't need to keep up with the Joneses, and the rest I can still do adequately on my current B&W 350.

What I really want is an excuse to buy a new machine. Geez I wish I could justify the three grand. But seeing that amount of debt on my credit card every month is just not worth it--unless I genuinely need it.

I'll probably wait until there are significant improvements in the hardware architecture such that updated software will not run on my machine anymore before I shell out the bucks again. And there are always the CPU upgrade manufacturers like Powerlogix and Sonnet (geez... and then there were two).

[Ifeelbloated]

My 933Mghz G4 is a couple of months old right now. It does me just fine. Plenty fast for the time being. It's done a lot of Lightwave work. I have to upgrade the OS in my beige G3 upgraded to G4 via Sonnettech. That's going to be interesting. But I got a lot of stuff going on right now so that can wait.
I'd love to have a laptop but I need a lot of pro software right now.

[hbrake]

Don't have a choice. I have a TiBook 667/1GB/48GB and a PowerComputing PowerTower Pro that has been upgraded 'ump-teen' times - and then last week - a summer storm in Arkansas (armpit of America) and the PowerComputing antique was finally completely fried by fluxuating voltage. Therefore, I'm anxious to see what comes out this week in new Desktops. Steve - please surprise me!

[awrc]

I'd like to, but I bought my PowerMac back in February primarily because Macs seemed to have a longer shelf-life than PCs before they become horribly obsolete.

My current one should last me through to the end of next year, at which point I'll see what Apple's offering. If there's a genuine new generation coming along about then, I'll go for it. If all we're seeing at that point is speedbumps, I'll wait another 6 months.

[tomburton]

I'm a "switcher" getting by with a 500 MHz Powerbook. Need a desktop for serious work. I would like to phase out my NT4 machine by early 2003. So I'll buy something. Probably the previous model's dual 1GHz unless I am pleasantly surprised by the new offerings.

[gopher]

The Flat Panel iMac. I love it. And running Jaguar it is going to be sweeter than ever. Apple won with the design on this one. Now maybe if they figured out a nice motherboard swap for this one, I might get it, but not till then. Now I might want to get a Titanium at next revision + 6 months. That's if they fix the airport issues. They weren't fixed the past time completely. Then again I might save up for an Asimo:

http://world.honda.com/robot/

[gopher]

Originally posted by BJNY
I'll buy if Apple offers a new tower enclosure that can be turned on its side to fit in a rack.
Okay, I'll buy no matter what comes out.:D

Then I'll buy whatever PowerBook revision comes out in Sept./Oct./Nov.
to replace my TiBook 550MHz DVD. Hopefully it'll be 1GHz.

Apple has a rack computer:

http://www.apple.com/xserve/

And
http://www.marathoncomputer.com/ will put your G4 tower into a rack.

[mdurg]

Will be buying ASAP, have been putting off purchase for two months. In the meantime I installed a Sonnet G4-500 in a G3-350 that was an absolute waste of money. Not very happy with Apple but very necessary for the work I do (Photoshop-Illustrator) Their prices are too high for the computer you get. I am somewhat excited about Jaguar. That will be my first experience with OSX.

[SteveG4Cube]

I've been debating upgrading my Cube since the last revision. Only thing is, since then Sonnet and Powerlogix have both come out with 1ghz upgrades for the Cube. I know it's still not DDR and I'd be getting a bigger HD, video card... if I buy a new PM, but you can't deny the asthetic beauty & simplicity of the cube. So for me, the only upgrade I'll be doing is a gigacube! Maybe when the G5s roll out I'll be ready to trade up, but until then, the cube serves me just fine!

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by hbrake
Don't have a choice. I have a TiBook 667/1GB/48GB and a PowerComputing PowerTower Pro that has been upgraded 'ump-teen' times - and then last week - a summer storm in Arkansas (armpit of America) and the PowerComputing antique was finally completely fried by fluxuating voltage. Therefore, I'm anxious to see what comes out this week in new Desktops. Steve - please surprise me!

BEFORE you get a new Mac, or as soon as possible, get a good UPS (with power conditioning). Otherwise you risk frying your new system just as you did your old one. If you refuse to get an UPS, you will only have yourself to blame when the power fluctuations finally fries your new system. I have an ellipse 800VA (http://www.mgeups.com/products/pdt120/1ph/ellipse/html/frame.htm) from MGE (http://www.mgeups.com/) that has power conditioning as well as batteries for power.

Even with major electrical storms, I have never had any power issues on any of my computers (attached to the UPS). I firmly believe that if you spend any decent amount of money for a computer (which you did when you picked up a Mac) you would be foolish to NOT get some kind of power protection for the system. Surge protectors/power strips can only go so far... an UPS will give full power protection. Be careful of which one you purchase though, check the specifications to make sure that the unit provides power conditioning in addition to battery backup power. Also, make sure that you will get a decent runtime off of the batteries, to give you enough time to save those files and shutdown properly before the batteries run dry.

[Liamcow]

Did anyone here read/reply to my thread "Is iMac portable?" well, i just bought my new 800Mhz iMac a few days ago!! I'm very happy with it, but it's been kinda screwy lately. i hope it's alright for my DJ job in a week :o

Oh yeah, to answer your question, i'm waiting a while before I drop another $2000 on a computer:D

[gopher]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


BEFORE you get a new Mac, or as soon as possible, get a good UPS (with power conditioning). Otherwise you risk frying your new system just as you did your old one. If you refuse to get an UPS, you will only have yourself to blame when the power fluctuations finally fries your new system. I have an ellipse 800VA (http://www.mgeups.com/products/pdt120/1ph/ellipse/html/frame.htm) from MGE (http://www.mgeups.com/) that has power conditioning as well as batteries for power.

Even with major electrical storms, I have never had any power issues on any of my computers (attached to the UPS). I firmly believe that if you spend any decent amount of money for a computer (which you did when you picked up a Mac) you would be foolish to NOT get some kind of power protection for the system. Surge protectors/power strips can only go so far... an UPS will give full power protection. Be careful of which one you purchase though, check the specifications to make sure that the unit provides power conditioning in addition to battery backup power. Also, make sure that you will get a decent runtime off of the batteries, to give you enough time to save those files and shutdown properly before the batteries run dry.

UPSes are nice if you live in an area with frequent brownouts, but if you expect lightning protection, you need to spend money on an expensive building based system. UPSes just can't handle the 300000 ampere of current of a direct strike of lightning. So what I do is if thunderstorms are on radar, I rush home and unplug my computer, but usually they forecast thunderstorms as potential for a day, and leave the computer unplugged when I go to work. Unplugging a computer is the cheapest yet most effective way to prevent a machine from suffering a lightning strike. If however, you must do day long jobs on the computer while you are away, well then it might be worth it to spend money on a housebound system. Can't wait till I buy my own home so I can install my own system.

Oh and Alpha, if you have a vandegraph generator at your disposal to prove to me that those UPS systems can withstand 300000 ampere, please let me know. Because I know the physics practically makes it cost prohibitive to build a resister that strong in such a small space.

[AlphaTech]

Typically full on lightening strikes are covered on your home owners policy (as well as on most good rental policies). An UPS that is well designed will fry itself long before dangerous voltage gets through (which is how they are designed). Since the house I live in is not the tallest structure in the neighborhood, I don't worry about it getting hit by lightening.

In my ~32 years, we have only had lightening come close to a house we have owned once. THAT was in Florida, where it was going after the sailboat mast across the canal from us.

The UPS units that you use at home provide tons of protection for power spikes, drops and such. Normal household power has many spikes and dips in it not during storms either. It's almost impossible to get a steady/stable power delivery inside the US.

[3rdpath]

i'll be buying something new-whether its a brand new G(x) or a close-out dual 1ghz-i'm undecided. i finally majorly crashed my trusty beige 233 this week by running too many performer audio tracks, reason and quicktime...the 233 is 5 years old and has been my trusted companion thru many jobs-UW cheetahs help:D i'll move it over to be a stand alone reason box and the new Gwhatever should last me another 5 years or more. if apple's new midline unit is a dualie and reasonably priced..SOLD. not sure whether i'll get a standard box or get a GVS rack mount system...they rock-and it would fit in the same rack my DT233 is in...

ahhh, nothing quite as joyous as buying new gear.( much to my wife's dismay...) ;)

btw, i upgraded to the DT233 from an atari mega4ST-with a 16 mhz upgrade...

:eek:

[original_thog]

I don't think so... Right now I'm surviving quite well with my G4/500 (upgraded to a dual 500), 1G of RAM and 32M GF2MX. I really can't see a need to upgrade until something really earth-shattering comes out. Especially since 10.2 will give me better MP and QE. :D

[ibookin']

I am going to buy a new tower (time to ditch the peecee), but I can't decide when to buy it. September? January? I'll probably wait till January, though. No matter when I buy it, I don't think my Mom will be too happy with me dropping $2500 on a computer, especially since she bought me an iBook a year ago.

Oh, well. I'll tell her I need it for the website I do for our temple (Jewish).

[gopher]

There usually is a good low end Powermac for about $1600. At least that's been Apple's price point. And who knows, sometime this fall the 17" Flat Panel iMac price might fall.

[JABevan]

Will not be buying a new PowerMac, but highly possible we'll be picking up an Xserve (hoping it will also get a bit of a processor boost).

[topicolo]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Typically full on lightening strikes are covered on your home owners policy (as well as on most good rental policies). An UPS that is well designed will fry itself long before dangerous voltage gets through (which is how they are designed). Since the house I live in is not the tallest structure in the neighborhood, I don't worry about it getting hit by lightening.

In my ~32 years, we have only had lightening come close to a house we have owned once. THAT was in Florida, where it was going after the sailboat mast across the canal from us.

The UPS units that you use at home provide tons of protection for power spikes, drops and such. Normal household power has many spikes and dips in it not during storms either. It's almost impossible to get a steady/stable power delivery inside the US.

Speaking of lightning, I was almost struck by a bolt 2 years ago.
Somehow I doubt that my house insurance would've covered that :D

[madamimadam]

All I know is that I do NOT NEED a new machine since my 533 is still powering along beautifully to my needs so I am sure I can wait until the G5 comes out. When the G5 comes out and I get one it will be because I WANT one so that I do not have to let my 3D designs render overnight.

I design in 3D for myself which means I like them to be my desktop pattern at 1280 x 1024 but I sometimes print them out so I render at 300 DPI. Doing this in Bryce can be a REAL bitch but I really don't see that crying because some superfast machine is not here yet is the answer. Everyone in the industry is having the same problem and we just need to wait for the pooters to catch up to our imagination.

They say that technology moves so fast these days but it is only trying to keep up with something FAR more powerful and imaginatory..... the human mind.

[TheCat]

i'm buying one after the end of august, i'll wait a couple more weeks b4 replacing my ageing 6500 (payday!!!)
But i can't believe 75 (at the time of writing this) people are going to wait 6months... these people are the sort that wait and wait and wait. Whenever & whatever u buy, will always be older and slower than something else release 6months later. That's life!

I can't wait for the Mac apple release soon that'll replace the current G4DP

Steve:-)

[mmmdreg]

I'm waiting on the 1Ghz iMac...MWSF maybe?

[TheCat]

i was thinking about the iMac too, esp with that lovely new 17" display.. but i'm also thinking about the near future too.. And if a modern PMacG4 with GF4Ti is the best spec for newer games like Doom 3 today, then.........:confused:
Anyway, there's a massive price difference and other (more important s/w?!) to consider also

I'd love a 1GHZ iMac though, 800mhz seems a little naff today.

Steve

[mdurg]

But i can't believe 75 (at the time of writing this) people are going to wait 6months... these


Had I never started reading this board I would have bought 2 months ago. Reading these forums generates a lot of false hope and things that never materialize. As far as waiting any longer goes, there is almost no doubt that new machines are on the way fairly soon. It would be a heartbreaker to buy a DP now only in a month have the latest and greatest available.

[topicolo]

I can't believe that there are so few apple haters because of their new .mac policy. only 5 people? that's pretty impressive, especially after reading all the vitriol on these boards.

[gopher]

Originally posted by topicolo
I can't believe that there are so few apple haters because of their new .mac policy. only 5 people? that's pretty impressive, especially after reading all the vitriol on these boards.

If .Mac was the last service out there that was once free going to be more expensive, I think more people would be mad. But there are lots of alternatives. The worst thing is having to let everyone you know that you are moving to a new service provider. But after all, who in here hasn't switched ISPs at least twice! I've switched 24 times!

[-hh]

Originally posted by mdurg
But i can't believe 75 (at the time of writing this) people are going to wait 6months... these


Well, since I did say "6" in the poll, I'll respond with an explanation.

First, I'm running off of an old 8600 w/G4 card. I'm waaay overdue.

The problem I have is that if I'm going to drop $2-3K for a spankin' new system, I want it to be a freaking Spankin' New System. Its not the money, its the value.

To be explicit, if the "any day now" machines are little more than yet another small Speed Bump, I don't see them as a good value (unless Stevo cuts prices in half), so I ain't buying.


Insofar as the rumors for the G5, I personally suspect that it stands a decent chance to be out by Christmas 2003. Time will tell. If my tower up and dies, I'll buy something used for $400, or lease a machine, and stretch my lifecycle out that way.


-hh

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by mdurg
But i can't believe 75 (at the time of writing this) people are going to wait 6months... these

Had I never started reading this board I would have bought 2 months ago. Reading these forums generates a lot of false hope and things that never materialize. As far as waiting any longer goes, there is almost no doubt that new machines are on the way fairly soon. It would be a heartbreaker to buy a DP now only in a month have the latest and greatest available.

Hey Stimpy... maybe you didn't pick up on the fact that this is a RUMOR site. :rolleyes: Unless you hear something direct from Apple about a new system coming out, don't believe it.

BTW, we were going by what Apple has typically done in the past with system updates. Last year at MWNY, they released new G4's... Why should this year be any different??? Well, it was... deal with it. :rolleyes: :p :D

[gopher]

Originally posted by -hh



Well, since I did say "6" in the poll, I'll respond with an explanation.

First, I'm running off of an old 8600 w/G4 card. I'm waaay overdue.

The problem I have is that if I'm going to drop $2-3K for a spankin' new system, I want it to be a freaking Spankin' New System. Its not the money, its the value.

To be explicit, if the "any day now" machines are little more than yet another small Speed Bump, I don't see them as a good value (unless Stevo cuts prices in half), so I ain't buying.


Insofar as the rumors for the G5, I personally suspect that it stands a decent chance to be out by Christmas 2003. Time will tell. If my tower up and dies, I'll buy something used for $400, or lease a machine, and stretch my lifecycle out that way.


-hh

Not a good value? I think we have another person who has been brainwashed by the myth PCs are better values than Macs.

Macs have things you don't get with PCs. Built-in bootable Firewire. Built-in 10/100 on consumer line and 1 Gigabit ethernet on PowerMacs. Built in support for digital displays with colormatching on all machines with an optional VGA display if you want it. Oh and the best customer support as rated by none other than Consumer Reports. Machines that more often than not last 3 to 5 times longer than your comparably priced PCs.
If you spent $500 on a machine and had to replace 3 times in 6 years with another $500 machine, and instead spent $1500 on a Mac and it lasted you 6 years, wouldn't the Mac be the better value? Support, ease of use, and a userbase that is more helpful than any PC userbase. You have tons of support bulletin boards, and because they are all Macs, the issues you will have are more likely than not affecting all users and not just you. And so most of those issues will have been worked out by at least one person. I might add, if you have good credit, you can buy that Mac for 3 months same as cash.

Macs are an excellent value...just shop around and if you don't know where to find a good price check my link below.

[job]

Originally posted by King Cobra
vitruvius, I'm using my 233MHz iMac and you are spamming. :D :p

I'll probably wait for a couple of months before buying a new tower.

Btw Cobra, did you get that smilie from me? I seem to remember posting the exact same one in a thread a long time ago. :D :rolleyes:

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by gopher
If .Mac was the last service out there that was once free going to be more expensive, I think more people would be mad. But there are lots of alternatives. The worst thing is having to let everyone you know that you are moving to a new service provider. But after all, who in here hasn't switched ISPs at least twice! I've switched 24 times!

I've switched but one time... From the free aohell that came with my first Mac purchase (a PowerComputing clone of all things) to Earthlink. I did the switch in the first week, since I couldn't connect after the first evening. I was using it during non-peak times (busy signals at ~2am eastern time to a local number). After the second or third evening of this, I gave aohell the iron boot and switched. There have been a few bumps in the road, over the past few years (signed on in 1997), but nothing extreme enough to get me to switch to another ISP. I looked into what was offered several months back (when my DSL speed went through the floor) and no one in my area could offer anything close to the same speed, for the same money. To get the speed I have now, it would have cost more.

I am still deciding about the .mac account... do I want to keep it or not... The 100MB of space is attractive, but I really don't need much else... I will decide one way or the other before the deadline of September 30th.

[-hh]

Originally posted by gopher


Not a good value? I think we have another person who has been brainwashed by the myth PCs are better values than Macs.

Its not a myth AFAIC, but that topic is not germain to what I was talking about.



Macs have things you don't get with PCs. Built-in bootable Firewire.

I've had Firewire on my home machine for ~2 years now. Number of peripherals hooked up to it: ZERO. Whoop-ti-doo. But I do like FW. My non-adoption is mostly because I'm still backwards-compatible to my existing SCSI peripherals.

I've had bootable SCSI capability on my Mac's for over 15 years, so the concept of non-bootable FW is a step backwards as far as I'm concerned: having bootable FW merely makes it *equal* to SCSI in my book, not some drastic new feature.

So how should I interpret your claims of it as a supposed "feature"? Hey everyone, my new car has windows that actually go up and down! :p :p




Built-in 10/100 on consumer line and 1 Gigabit ethernet on PowerMacs.

Only relevant if you need it. I don't even have 10bT hooked up on my Mac at home. I do have 10bT on the PC at work, and its bandwidth is fine for what I typically need. 100bT and GBE is moderate to extreme overkill.

FWIW, I do admit that I'd break down & install a CAT 5 network at home if I were to go with a broadband ISP. But going here will only make me bitch and moan about the rediculous prices for a Static IP address.


...color calibration...

Yes, there's some neat stuff for the Pro's. But that's not my application.

My biggest problem I have is making webpage images that are still good-looking on generic Windows PC's that lack any color calibration. The easiest thing for me to do is to just doublecheck my work on my thusly equipped PC at work, before telling Mom "look here".


If you spent $500 on a machine and had to replace 3 times in 6 years with another $500 machine, and instead spent $1500 on a Mac and it lasted you 6 years, wouldn't the Mac be the better value?


It actually depends on the residual utility of the old machines.:D

But normally, I do just what you suggest. In fact, my current Mac is literally 6 years old (although it did cost more than $1500, particularly with the incremental ugprades its received).

My point is that Apple has not been making good, steady gains in performance, and because of that, "right now" is NOT a good time to buy a machine for the next 6 years because Apple's so far behind where they should be.

So the question really becomes: "When will be a good time?"

Short answer is whenever Apple has something that can count as a modest breakthrough. It doesn't have to be a G5, but it does need to be a lot more than a lame speed bump.

So it depends on what Apple delivers this month. A lame speed bump means that I'' strategically "invest short" and wait for a gain in performance that's IMO really worth paying for.

Overall, if I "had to buy" a new machine today, I'd get a 17" iMac. The current PowerMac's are poor values by comparison (for MY needs), and a speedbump won't appreciably change that.

But the better option for me right now seems to be to wait. My traditional upgrade cycle has been to replace my Mac when the new model has ~4x the performance of the old. Expressing that very simplistically, it means that I'm waiting for at least a 1.6GHz G4+ with at least a 200MHz bus.


-hh

[topicolo]

Originally posted by gopher


Not a good value? I think we have another person who has been brainwashed by the myth PCs are better values than Macs.

Macs have things you don't get with PCs. Built-in bootable Firewire. Built-in 10/100 on consumer line and 1 Gigabit ethernet on PowerMacs. Built in support for digital displays with colormatching on all machines with an optional VGA display if you want it. Oh and the best customer support as rated by none other than Consumer Reports. Machines that more often than not last 3 to 5 times longer than your comparably priced PCs.
If you spent $500 on a machine and had to replace 3 times in 6 years with another $500 machine, and instead spent $1500 on a Mac and it lasted you 6 years, wouldn't the Mac be the better value? Support, ease of use, and a userbase that is more helpful than any PC userbase. You have tons of support bulletin boards, and because they are all Macs, the issues you will have are more likely than not affecting all users and not just you. And so most of those issues will have been worked out by at least one person. I might add, if you have good credit, you can buy that Mac for 3 months same as cash.

Macs are an excellent value...just shop around and if you don't know where to find a good price check my link below.

If you put it that way, the PC actually sounds better. Think about it this way:
3 pcs in 6 years is 1 pc every 2 years right?
Ok, lets say you have $1500 but instead of buying a mac you spend the $500 for your first pc.
This leaves you with $1000 in cash that you can leave in a bond that earns you say, 7%.
After 2 years, you have $1144.90 (1000*1.07^2) and you spend another $500 for your second pc, leaving you with $644.90.
After 2 more years, you have $738.35 and you spend the last $500 for your third pc and you finally end up with $238.35 left. Enough for half of your fourth pc!
Sure, you may have to waste time installing all of your software every 2 years, but you're also getting a speed upgrade with each new pc. (BTW, if you invested that money in the stock market instead of in bonds, you would have $402.02 left in the end at the historical stock market return of 11%).

Just my $0.02

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by -hh
Its not a myth AFAIC, but that topic is not germain to what I was talking about.

I've had Firewire on my home machine for ~2 years now. Number of peripherals hooked up to it: ZERO. Whoop-ti-doo. But I do like FW. My non-adoption is mostly because I'm still backwards-compatible to my existing SCSI peripherals.
I guess you haven't heard of the FireWire/SCSI adapters that are out there. :rolleyes:

I've had bootable SCSI capability on my Mac's for over 15 years, so the concept of non-bootable FW is a step backwards as far as I'm concerned: having bootable FW merely makes it *equal* to SCSI in my book, not some drastic new feature.
Booting from a FireWire hard drive is a LOT better then trying to boot from a SCSI one. I have an OS (9.2.2) on a FireWire drive since we need to use that to install the new corporate OS X image that is coming. With a FireWire drive, we can install OS X on about 75% of the systems that will be getting it. The rest of them have USB, so I am working on getting a drive with both on it before we have to install OS X across the board.

So how should I interpret your claims of it as a supposed "feature"? Hey everyone, my new car has windows that actually go up and down! :p :p

Only relevant if you need it. I don't even have 10bT hooked up on my Mac at home. I do have 10bT on the PC at work, and its bandwidth is fine for what I typically need. 100bT and GBE is moderate to extreme overkill.

So, you are saying, just because where you work are cheap prîcks, and have not upgraded/updated to 100Mbps ethernet you don't need it??? What drugs are you on??? We have 100Mbps (autosense) networking here at work, and I wouldn't even want to think about going down to 10Mbps. Try to download a file larger then 100MB and you can go to lunch before it finishes. Do that with 100Mb networking and it's done in moments...

FWIW, I do admit that I'd break down & install a CAT 5 network at home if I were to go with a broadband ISP. But going here will only make me bitch and moan about the rediculous prices for a Static IP address.

Why do you think you need a static IP address??? Do you have one now with dial-up? I know that Earthlink offers a static IP for a few dollars extra a month... If you bytch about something that small, you will bytch about anything.

Installing a Cat5 network is not as difficult as you think. If the computers are in the same room, all you need is some patch cables and an ethernet switch (do NOT get a hub). If the computers are in different rooms/floors, then just get an electritian in to run the wire for you (and put drop plates on the walls you want). Get them to use either Cat5e or Cat 6 cable, and you will be all set.

I have DSL at home, with a network switch (for the game pc and printer) and an Airport Base station. With the Airport card inside my TiBook, I can go anywhere I want in the apartment, and even most of the yard outside. I will probably do that when it starts to cool down some, so that I can sit in the yard (or the front porch) and be online.

Yes, there's some neat stuff for the Pro's. But that's not my application.

That's what everyone thinks, until they actually start to use the stuff. Like my mother and the internet... She never thought she would need the high speed, until we ran a cat5 line up to her apartment and installed a router on my sister's internet connection. Now she gets free high speed internet... :p

My biggest problem I have is making webpage images that are still good-looking on generic Windows PC's that lack any color calibration. The easiest thing for me to do is to just doublecheck my work on my thusly equipped PC at work, before telling Mom "look here".

I think you have bigger problems then that... of the psychological nature. :eek: :eek: :p :D

It actually depends on the residual utility of the old machines.:D

But normally, I do just what you suggest. In fact, my current Mac is literally 6 years old (although it did cost more than $1500, particularly with the incremental ugprades its received).

My point is that Apple has not been making good, steady gains in performance, and because of that, "right now" is NOT a good time to buy a machine for the next 6 years because Apple's so far behind where they should be.

So the question really becomes: "When will be a good time?"

Short answer is whenever Apple has something that can count as a modest breakthrough. It doesn't have to be a G5, but it does need to be a lot more than a lame speed bump.

So it depends on what Apple delivers this month. A lame speed bump means that I'' strategically "invest short" and wait for a gain in performance that's IMO really worth paying for.

Overall, if I "had to buy" a new machine today, I'd get a 17" iMac. The current PowerMac's are poor values by comparison (for MY needs), and a speedbump won't appreciably change that.

But the better option for me right now seems to be to wait. My traditional upgrade cycle has been to replace my Mac when the new model has ~4x the performance of the old. Expressing that very simplistically, it means that I'm waiting for at least a 1.6GHz G4+ with at least a 200MHz bus.

BTW, if you try to purchase an external SCSI cd-burner expect to drop more then a few dollars. That is, if you can even find one in stock someplace. For some time now, the ONLY burners I have seen are either USB or FireWire.

[-hh]

Originally posted by gopher


If .Mac was the last service out there that was once free going to be more expensive, I think more people would be mad.


IMO, Apple would be smart to bundle a Free year's subscription with any new CPU purchase.



But there are lots of alternatives. The worst thing is having to let everyone you know that you are moving to a new service provider.

And the best thing is all of the Spam that you leave behind.



But after all, who in here hasn't switched ISPs at least twice! I've switched 24 times!

24 times? Incredible. Over what time period?

FWIW, I've had only 2 ISP's over the past 19 years. The first was "The Source", which was bought out by GE and became GEnie. Replaced that in 1996 with a small local company who's since been bought out (but the new owner keeps the old IP name going).

FWIW, if you really want a "forever" email address, spend $200/year and buy yourself a domain & rent a host to put it on.


-hh

[-hh]

Originally posted by AlphaTech

I guess you haven't heard of the FireWire/SCSI adapters that are out there. :rolleyes:

Sure I have, and that's the route I'd go if I were to buy a 17" iMac. But so long as I'm on a system that supports SCSI without having to go through Firewire, why should I add unnecessary complexity?



Booting from a FireWire hard drive is a LOT better then trying to boot from a SCSI one.

I've not ever had a problem with SCSI. But then again, the last machine that I had that I chose to set it up with an external boot disk was literally a Mac Plus. Management did away with the Mac's here at work ~5 years ago, so the days of when I'd have to set up disk images for multiple new machine installs is long gone.



So, you are saying, just because where you work are cheap prîcks, and have not upgraded/updated to 100Mbps ethernet you don't need it??? What drugs are you on???


Coffee. Its what's consumed in non-graphics-oriented offices.

Our network is respectable. We have GB fiber above the concentrator, and we're ready for pushing 100bT down to the desktop, but we don't have the compelling need to do so for 98% of our PC's (mine included), because the biggest bandwidth consumer we have is to email around Powerpoint attachments over Microsoft Outlook.

There's also more than one way to skin a cat. The IS guys run unsplit asynchronous snaps down to each PC, etc, with the end result that I have ~1MByte/sec sustained transfer rates up & down. Since 95% of our files is usually under 5MB, the typical dwell time is usually just a few seconds, not "lunchtimes". As I said, we really don't need that much bandwidth on the desktop yet. Your Business may vary.



Why do you think you need a static IP address???


Because if I'm going to tinker around with broadband at home, I'm going to try setting up a web/news server to tinker with.


I know that Earthlink offers a static IP for a few dollars extra a month... If you bytch about something that small, you will bytch about anything.


Yes, I am a cheap bastard. Or to be politcally correct, call me "Strongly Value Focused" :D

I price out my local broadband options around 2x/year and its typically ~$59/month to go with the small business who's being held hostage & screwed by the local TelCo. So long as I can surf at work, the incentive for me to pay my home ISP more money just isn't that strong.



Installing a Cat5 network is not as difficult as you think.


I didn't think I suggested that it was "difficult" (IMO, wiring of all types is a piece of cake). I simply have a billion other hobbies that are higher priority.



That's what everyone thinks, until they actually start to use the stuff.


I've had a high bandwidth connection at work since before Mozilla v1.0 You think I'm at home right now at 56K?



BTW, if you try to purchase an external SCSI cd-burner expect to drop more then a few dollars. That is, if you can even find one in stock someplace. For some time now, the ONLY burners I have seen are either USB or FireWire.

I already have two external SCSI burners. If I were to buy a new external CD-R, I'd skip SCIS and look to buy a FW interface. But neither of the SCSI's I have right now are on their "last legs", so the only downside of using them is that it takes a few minutes longer to burn a CD. Perhaps if I were Napstering hundreds of MP3's, I'd care about such things.


My point is that we're all different types of users, and what's important to some isn't going to be important to all. Personally, I'd like to have a PowerMac because of its expansion capabilities, and because it has better horsepower, but I also recognize that I don't really have the personal need to rationally justify the top of the line products. The money I'm saving today will buy me a week of Scuba diving in the Galapagos later this year :-)

I've also done stratetic organizational IS planning for the group I work for, and I've seen the kind of BS that gets pushed by the "techhies" who don't have a clue about what our business is, how we counduct it, hot it has evolved and how we should conduct it because of where its probably going.



-hh