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View Full Version : Just 2 weeks to WWDC and STILL no MBA refresh: Your prediction for the MBA's fate?




Jobsian
May 20, 2010, 11:17 AM
All Apple notebook models have now been updated except for the Macbook Air, which has had the longest wait of them all.

We have 2 weeks to go to WWDC, what do you predict Steve Jobs has ordained for the MBA?



ihaveNFC
May 20, 2010, 11:31 AM
I don't see it happening anytime soon, but perhaps in a few months.

Steven in VA
May 20, 2010, 02:17 PM
I'd be thrilled with A, content (enough to replace my Rev A 64GB SSD) with B, crushed if it's D.

Scottsdale
May 20, 2010, 02:29 PM
I think it's a major revision now coming, but I don't know if it will come at WWDC. It seems obvious that if Apple updates the MBA at WWDC it's going to be very different. I suspect now that we have a lengthy wait for the major revision. I certainly hope it happens at WWDC, but I just don't know that Apple would have focused on the MBA during these times of putting the whole force on the iPhone OS and iPad. I do believe Apple will at least introduce one new Mac at WWDC either way... but I believe it will be a Mac Pro for sure... I just don't know that Apple would have an MBA update right now at WWDC.

A MacBook Air with a C2D and Nvidia 320m makes all the sense in the world to me, but I don't know how Sir Stevie stands up and introduces that type of MBA at WWDC? Perhaps that's still the component makeup but Apple will change the form factor? I don't know about that either. The bottom line is that I am completely confused about the MBA updates. I thought C2D and Nvidia 320m would have come last October, or at the latest March 2010... then when the 13" MBP was updated with C2D and Nvidia 320m, I thought the MBA would for certain get the MacFive update before WWDC.

thinkdesign
May 20, 2010, 03:40 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

Our authoritative poster may have explained it. Letting Air and some other notebooks get stale over time, is apparently actually a highly conscious and calibrated maneuver :o) consistent with evolving the firm's market focus from "pro" people (or road warriors in the Air's case), to the "luxe" market of people who won't notice the Air's staleness, or mind the value proposition. A high-level management maneuver in which Apple doesn't actually have to DO anything! Just let things slide. LOL. ------- And I love his term "nominal delay." As if it isn't a real delay, it's just something some people are calling a delay. Nominally. I don't know whether to laugh or cry, at that amazingly crafted turn of a phrase. ----- He suggests WWDC will update the Air, OR the Mac Pro. That's a big "or"! I predict that next year, Ford will update the Fiestas, "or" the Lincolns.

Nilonym
May 20, 2010, 03:53 PM
And I love his term "nominal delay." As if it isn't a real delay, it's just something some people are calling a delay. Nominally. I don't know whether to laugh or cry, at that amazingly crafted turn of a phrase. ----- He suggests WWDC will update the Air, OR the Mac Pro. That's a big "or"! I predict that next year, Ford will update the Fiestas, "or" the Lincolns.

Are you referring to another post? Who said this, and where?

barkomatic
May 20, 2010, 03:59 PM
I think there are a few good updates left in the life of the Macbook Air. The market is small, but many people still need a full functioning and light laptop for work. A craptastic netbook doesn't come close and the iPad is entertainment only at this point.

However, I think eventually a high end iPad will cause the air to be discontinued at some point in the next 3 years.

halledise
May 20, 2010, 04:19 PM
However, I think eventually a high end iPad will cause the air to be discontinued at some point in the next 3 years.

I can't see that happening as the Pad and the Air are totally different animals.

to add all the features now common in the Air to the Pad, you'd end up with a 10" screened Air.

ergo, why bother.

Apple is the master of cool and as such I'd say we'll see the Air around for a while yet, refreshed from time to time as the techno-combinations make it plausible - that is until the next stunning form factor for an ultra-light fully-fledged notebook is unveiled.

Apple has hit on a concept here that has appeal and which does sell rather well despite the comparisons to the rest of the range (I'd be interested to see a comparison of units sold between the Air and the 17" MBPro for example) and I believe this concept will only be refined as the time goes by.

gri
May 20, 2010, 04:23 PM
I think it's a major revision now coming, but I don't know if it will come at WWDC. It seems obvious that if Apple updates the MBA at WWDC it's going to be very different. I suspect now that we have a lengthy wait for the major revision. I certainly hope it happens at WWDC, but I just don't know that Apple would have focused on the MBA during these times of putting the whole force on the iPhone OS and iPad. I do believe Apple will at least introduce one new Mac at WWDC either way... but I believe it will be a Mac Pro for sure... I just don't know that Apple would have an MBA update right now at WWDC.

A MacBook Air with a C2D and Nvidia 320m makes all the sense in the world to me, but I don't know how Sir Stevie stands up and introduces that type of MBA at WWDC? Perhaps that's still the component makeup but Apple will change the form factor? I don't know about that either. The bottom line is that I am completely confused about the MBA updates. I thought C2D and Nvidia 320m would have come last October, or at the latest March 2010... then when the 13" MBP was updated with C2D and Nvidia 320m, I thought the MBA would for certain get the MacFive update before WWDC.

I think at the WWDC we might see new Pro desktops (which would make mine an old duck, sigh) and not an MBA, unfortunately. Even if it were to happen, it would be as Scottsdale says C2D with 320m - but C2D is dead at the end of the year and with all the iPhone and iPad hype AND still missing MP upgrades I simply cannot see them presenting a "new" MBP with the same old processor (literally). I could see an upgrade of all 13 inch Books early 2011 when the C2D is done for... Who knows with what though given the Intel/NVIDA issue.

col sandurz
May 20, 2010, 04:27 PM
However, I think eventually a high end iPad will cause the air to be discontinued at some point in the next 3 years.

This sounds like a distinct possibility. Jobs seems bent of touting the iPad as a new technology that will render netbooks obsolete. That said, the MBA is the closest other product to a netbook. If Apple sees this as product redundancy, then the MBA is dead. However, as evident in the original MBA being a testbed of new tech (SSD) and its premium price, Apple is clearly not intending to advertise the MBA as a netbook, but much more.

With the mindset its more than a netbook, and the recent updates of other products, I would expect an update of the MBA to be near. This could be explosive if Apple wishes to continue to charge a premium for the MBA and distance it with new tech. While thinner, the MBA has the same width and depth of the other 13 inchers, but no disc drive. Apple could use the real estate to put in an iCore and discrete graphics, giving more than form factor to justify the premium price. (It sorely needs justifying with what is now a significantly slower processor than the MB at 50% or more greater price)

Possible configuration:
Intel i5 Core 2.40 GHz
4GB DDR3 Ram (max config)
128GB SSD (standard, 256GB available)
NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics (saves power over the 330M)
10-11 hour battery

Many of the pro set would jump to spend $1800 US on this.

Jayomat
May 20, 2010, 04:45 PM
Are you referring to another post? Who said this, and where?

I think he refers to scottsdale's post...

thinkdesign
May 20, 2010, 05:08 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

"Is he referring to...?" No, not Scottsdale, not this thread.

emvy
May 20, 2010, 05:34 PM
Sorry to bring bad news, but an update of the MBA is unlikely at this point. Given the state of the economy, Apple is focusing on the lower end of the market, rather than on the high-end.

Manufacturing a new Air now looks like out of the question, since there would be no major new components (maybe some RAM, bigger SSD).

My prediction is that the next MBA will be after the summer, and having a new AMD/ATI combo CPU/GPU.

ihaveNFC
May 20, 2010, 06:02 PM
The bottom line is that I am completely confused about the MBA updates.

Checkmate!

Mhkobe
May 20, 2010, 06:15 PM
Possible configuration:
Intel i5 Core 2.40 GHz
4GB DDR3 Ram (max config)
128GB SSD (standard, 256GB available)
NVIDIA GeForce 320M graphics (saves power over the 330M)
10-11 hour battery.

Do you intend to say that apple would put a 35 watt TDP CPU/GPU in a computer that currently has a 29 watt while their main target seems to be huge battery life? What you have just said is that apple will put a battery the size of the one in the new polycarbonate Macbook into an MBA.

Nilonym
May 20, 2010, 07:25 PM
"Is he referring to...?" No, not Scottsdale, not this thread.

Okay. So, what were you referring to? The only other thread that contains the phrase "nominal delay" was concerned with the opening of the iTunes Music Store in Canada back in 2004.

I'm just curious. It was a very impassioned statement.

ob81
May 20, 2010, 09:43 PM
Call me crazy, but i think the MBA and the iPad collide. Weak processor, laptop body, and cost really hurt the MBA when faced against an iPad.

Lets face it, any person trying to get any real usage out of a laptop is going to go for a MacBook or MBP. Anyone that just wants to consume content and be portable is going to go for the iPad. There will always be people that are willing to pay the expensive price for the MBA, but not enough to keep it alive.
It is a neat little computer though.

Airforcekid
May 20, 2010, 10:01 PM
I see it taking the same road as the Apple Tv updates only when it truly needs it the air is perfect for email web photos and and iTunes movies what Apple pushs as they sell it. I would love to see an update but i dont see one till next Jan or Feb when the run out of C2D and truly need to.

gimmi80
May 20, 2010, 10:15 PM
MBA is my primary computer and it really does great. Who says thAt the MBA doesn't do enough it's because never tried it. Just go to the apple store and try the ssd version. It's much faster than any of the other 13' laptop.

I don't want to buy an ipad. I don't need it. I just want a MacBook air with 4gb of ram and the new nvidia. Possibly the glass track pad. No black bezel.

thinkdesign
May 20, 2010, 10:53 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

Nilonym: I find Google's performance is very spotty, applied to M.R.

cleric
May 21, 2010, 07:14 AM
Yea I don't think Apple is as interested in a stop gap MBA (320m/4gb ram) as we are. They are perfectly content waiting 6 months and releasing a core i series set up. They can get away with it too since it's not billed as a high perfomance machine. As long as it runs the current office suite, email, and web browsing no significant number of customers will care just the .1% in this forum.

Scottsdale
May 21, 2010, 12:55 PM
Yea I don't think Apple is as interested in a stop gap MBA (320m/4gb ram) as we are. They are perfectly content waiting 6 months and releasing a core i series set up. They can get away with it too since it's not billed as a high perfomance machine. As long as it runs the current office suite, email, and web browsing no significant number of customers will care just the .1% in this forum.

I fear you're correct. However, Apple might lose me as an OS X customer whether it loses me as a Mac customer or not. I see Windows 7 as a solution on my current MBA. I want to be able to run both OS X and Windows 7. However, Windows provides EVERY APP I NEED. While OS X doesn't provide all of the apps I need. In addition, Windows provides the entertainment experience I really want. So one solution is just moving my whole MBA system to Windows 7 and rebuying all of the applications I need and want for the Windows platform.

The whole reason for me to buy a stopgap MBA is to be able to run OS X and Windows simultaneously via a VM. I need 4 GB of RAM minimum to make that happen. So Apple is risking losing me as an OS X customer and missing out on one extra MBA sale just by not updating the MBA for me. Now add all of the customers like me who might be fine with the MBA in one OS but also want to run Windows 7. The big advantage of the Mac is I can run both OSes. If the MBA cannot technically handle both OSes then that's no longer an advantage for the MBA. I can run either at one time, but that's ridiculous as I don't want to turnoff OS X and boot Windows and vice-versa.

If I switch all of my apps to Windows, it will be very costly for me to want to switch back to OS X. Surely there are others like me with these thoughts? The whole problem with Apple gaining on Windows is each Mac switcher has the added costs of switching which is buying all of their apps in the new OS. So every Mac OS X customer lost is going to be lost with a high-cost transition to Windows which means it will be even harder for Apple to get the customer back. Honestly, Windows has caught up with OS X. Apple has stopped working on OS X 10.7. What the hell is Apple thinking? I mean not updating its Macs on a timely schedule and then stopping development of the only other reason people buy Macs, OS X. I buy Macs primarily because of the design and OS X. However, OS X is becoming less and less of a real reason in the deal. If competitors can compete with Mac designs, there is no reason to move to the Mac or stay with Apple's Macs. Apple really needs to deliver a revolutionary OS X 10.7... stopping development on it for iPhone OS 4 is a terrible mistake in my opinion. This strategy could truly come back to haunt Apple.

gwsat
May 21, 2010, 04:08 PM
Scottsdale -- Like you, before I'll be interested in any MBA update, it must be able to run Windows and OS X apps simultaneously in either Fusion or Parallels. Thus, if Apple still provides only 2Gb of RAM in an updated MBA, I will not be buying one. That said, I think it is a given that any refreshed MBA will include at least 4Gb of RAM. Even the low end 13 inch MBP now has that, so it's hard for me to believe that a new MBA wouldn't.

Thanks to my MBP, which has been eminently satisfactory since I upgraded its RAM to 6Gb, I can afford to keep waiting until next March when my MBP's Applecare coverage runs out. Better yet, my iPad, despite its well known weaknesses, has proved to be an outstanding choice for highly mobile use. Thus, until and unless Apple provides an upgraded MBA that I can be sure will handle my needs, I will be happy to stay on the sidelines.

voicegy
May 23, 2010, 01:20 AM
Scottsdale -- Like you, before I'll be interested in any MBA update, it must be able to run Windows and OS X apps simultaneously in either Fusion or Parallels. Thus, if Apple still provides only 2Gb of RAM in an updated MBA, I will not be buying one. That said, I think it is a given that any refreshed MBA will include at least 4Gb of RAM. <...> Thus, until and unless Apple provides an upgraded MBA that I can be sure will handle my needs, I will be happy to stay on the sidelines.

I've been haunting the MBA threads lately because I've always wanted a MacBook Air, but Apple can SHOVE that 2GbRAM and I've been sniffing around for any rumor or possibility of the MBA to gain at LEAST more RAM in a much-hoped for refresh. This is EXACTLY what I am waiting for so I can run Parallels and Windows 7 - so Scottsdale and gwsat, we're soul brothers in that respect.

iPad does nothing for me.

gwsat
May 23, 2010, 10:06 AM
I've been haunting the MBA threads lately because I've always wanted a MacBook Air, but Apple can SHOVE that 2GbRAM and I've been sniffing around for any rumor or possibility of the MBA to gain at LEAST more RAM in a much-hoped for refresh. This is EXACTLY what I am waiting for so I can run Parallels and Windows 7 - so Scottsdale and gwsat, we're soul brothers in that respect.

iPad does nothing for me.

voicegy -- I just wish that I could be absolutely certain that 4Gb of RAM would be enough to allow me to run several Windows apps and several more OS X apps simultaneously from the OS X desktop with VMware Fusion in Unity mode. I am cautiously optimistic because I have been running just such a setup with only 2Gb of RAM and 1 processor core dedicated to the Fusion vm. I keep trying to get some feedback from others who have satisfactorily run a bunch ow Windows and OS X apps simultaneously in Unity mode with only 4Gb of RAM. So far, though, I haven't seen a thing that seemed definitive.

I like the iPad but only as an adjunct to a real computer, to be used for limited purposes while in situations that make a laptop inconvenient. The iPad is not suited for either document creation or numbers crunching. It's a lightweight device, which should be limited to being used for lightweight purposes.

Scottsdale
May 23, 2010, 11:34 AM
voicegy -- I just wish that I could be absolutely certain that 4Gb of RAM would be enough to allow me to run several Windows apps and several more OS X apps simultaneously from the OS X desktop with VMware Fusion in Unity mode. I am cautiously optimistic because I have been running just such a setup with only 2Gb of RAM and 1 processor core dedicated to the Fusion vm. I keep trying to get some feedback from others who have satisfactorily run a bunch ow Windows and OS X apps simultaneously in Unity mode with only 4Gb of RAM. So far, though, I haven't seen a thing that seemed definitive.

I like the iPad but only as an adjunct to a real computer, to be used for limited purposes while in situations that make a laptop inconvenient. The iPad is not suited for either document creation or numbers crunching. It's a lightweight device, which should be limited to being used for lightweight purposes.

The apps you're running in Windows don't even count on 3D graphics stuff that are tough for VMs. You shouldn't have a problem in the world with 4 GB of RAM. Pull 2 GB of RAM out of your MBP and test it. There's your best bet. Plus, your MBP doesn't have the advantage of SSD.

What you need to be worried about is an update the Tuesday before or after WWDC that has just the 320m and SSD size updates... and no RAM boost. That is still a possibility as the MB only has 2 GB of RAM.

What you also need to be worried about is a CULV CPU that runs at 1.2 GHz. And the absolute biggest problem you would have would be sole use of an Intel GMA HD for graphics. Talk about bad graphics for a VM setup... it doesn't get any worse than the Intel GMA.

I worry about the potential of my Windows experience not being as good via a VM system. When I boot Windows now, it's to play Flash or HD videos over the Internet via Hulu.com, YouTube.com and etc. I don't know if h.264 and OpenGL advantages in Windows would show through in a VM system where I am really in OS X?

There are lots of worries or fears you should have, not if 4 GB is going to be enough or if you need 8 GB. Forget the 6 GB talk because you have 6 GB because Apple didn't make the MBP capable of the real update to 8 GB RAM possible for the hardware. The MBA will get 2 GB RAM soldered, 4 GB RAM soldered, or two RAM slots. If there are two RAM slots, you could order it with 4 GB RAM or 8 GB RAM. This is obviously what I would pray for, but I believe 4 GB RAM soldered to the board is obvious UNLESS the MBA gets a case redesign. If Apple puts two RAM slots in it would need a new design so it could be easily accessed once cover is removed. It's just not likely unless there's a redesign, in my opinion anyways.

SaleenS351
May 23, 2010, 12:22 PM
Please Apple, give me a decent update before, at, or soon after WWDC. I need an ultra-portable for school at the end of June and I want to give you my money for a NEW Air. Don't make me purchase a Sony Vaio Z. I need windows for school, but I would much rather dual boot than run it solely on a Sony. However, if you leave me with no choice I will buy the Sony. It's been 10 years since I've bought a PC and I don't want to break the streak now. I wish I had the time to wait, but that is not the case.

Here's to hoping.....:apple:

gwsat
May 23, 2010, 01:00 PM
There are lots of worries or fears you should have, not if 4 GB is going to be enough or if you need 8 GB. Forget the 6 GB talk because you have 6 GB because Apple didn't make the MBP capable of the real update to 8 GB RAM possible for the hardware. The MBA will get 2 GB RAM soldered, 4 GB RAM soldered, or two RAM slots. If there are two RAM slots, you could order it with 4 GB RAM or 8 GB RAM. This is obviously what I would pray for, but I believe 4 GB RAM soldered to the board is obvious UNLESS the MBA gets a case redesign. If Apple puts two RAM slots in it would need a new design so it could be easily accessed once cover is removed. It's just not likely unless there's a redesign, in my opinion anyways.
Yes, we have discussed all of this many times in many threads. I agree that your speculation about what Apple may do to update the MBA is as good as anybody else's but, at the end of the day, we won't know until -- and unless -- Apple actually updates the MBA.

You have chided me before for talking about 6Gb of RAM working well with Fusion and I have explained before that I understand the Santa Rosa MBPs like mine are limited to 6Gb. Indeed, had my MBP been able to reliably address 8Gb of RAM, I would have bought 8Gb for it instead of the 6GB I was limited to. Obviously, then, I will upgrade any MBA I buy to 8Gb in the unlikely event Apple redesigns the MBA and adds two RAM slots.

mrsir2009
May 23, 2010, 02:34 PM
I think the MacBook Air is going to be discounted, which is a shame... I think the iPad is responsible for most of it:(

Scottsdale
May 23, 2010, 03:06 PM
Yes, we have discussed all of this many times in many threads. I agree that your speculation about what Apple may do to update the MBA is as good as anybody else's but, at the end of the day, we won't know until -- and unless -- Apple actually updates the MBA.

You have chided me before for talking about 6Gb of RAM working well with Fusion and I have explained before that I understand the Santa Rosa MBPs like mine are limited to 6Gb. Indeed, had my MBP been able to reliably address 8Gb of RAM, I would have bought 8Gb for it instead of the 6GB I was limited to. Obviously, then, I will upgrade any MBA I buy to 8Gb in the unlikely event Apple redesigns the MBA and adds two RAM slots.

Honestly, it's stupid Apple doesn't allow 8 GB RAM to be used in that MBP. I bet money it is Apple wanting those who need 8 GB RAM to upgrade to a newer MBP. Unfortunately, Apple is really good at giving incremental updates that encourage us to truthfully WANT to give Apple more money. Anyways, I wasn't trying to give you crap about 6 GB RAM, I just think it's so absurdly odd to want 6 GB RAM. I guess it's trained into my head that RAM is sold in 2,4,8 GB quantities. It seems abnormal to hear someone say they want 6 GB RAM. See that's a limitation making you want 6 GB RAM. So that's why I alway mention it, sorry, LOL.

It is SAD in times like this when Apple refuses to give us an updated MBA that so many of us are begging Apple to LET US buy. I see Apple's mistakes as lost revenue NOW. It doesn't matter if we will wait or not. Many buyers like me will update every option I get. Why not allow me to give Apple my money more frequently than once every 19 months as it has with the MBA?

gwsat
May 23, 2010, 04:30 PM
Honestly, it's stupid Apple doesn't allow 8 GB RAM to be used in that MBP. I bet money it is Apple wanting those who need 8 GB RAM to upgrade to a newer MBP. Unfortunately, Apple is really good at giving incremental updates that encourage us to truthfully WANT to give Apple more money. Anyways, I wasn't trying to give you crap about 6 GB RAM, I just think it's so absurdly odd to want 6 GB RAM. I guess it's trained into my head that RAM is sold in 2,4,8 GB quantities. It seems abnormal to hear someone say they want 6 GB RAM. See that's a limitation making you want 6 GB RAM. So that's why I alway mention it, sorry, LOL.

It is SAD in times like this when Apple refuses to give us an updated MBA that so many of us are begging Apple to LET US buy. I see Apple's mistakes as lost revenue NOW. It doesn't matter if we will wait or not. Many buyers like me will update every option I get. Why not allow me to give Apple my money more frequently than once every 19 months as it has with the MBA?
First, I share your frustration about Apple not giving us an 8Gb of RAM option for the MBA. Second, 6Gb is an odd amount of RAM. In fact, when I was doing research in prep for adding RAM to my MBA and saw that 6Gb was its max, I was a little surprised that a 4Gb RAM module in one slot and a 2Gb module in the other would work. Obviously, I am living proof that it does work -- not that I want to do it again if I can get 8Gb instead.

I stick with Apple despite a lot of frustration because of the consistently stunning design over the years of most of their products. It must be very good or many of us would have stopped buying Macs that were consistently underpowered long ago. Like you, I would gladly pay what it took for an MBA with an i7, or even an i5, chip, decent graphics, 8Gb of RAM, and a 256Gb SSD. Is Apple likely to give us that choice? Ha!

Scottsdale
May 23, 2010, 06:00 PM
First, I share your frustration about Apple not giving us an 8Gb of RAM option for the MBA. Second, 6Gb is an odd amount of RAM. In fact, when I was doing research in prep for adding RAM to my MBA and saw that 6Gb was its max, I was a little surprised that a 4Gb RAM module in one slot and a 2Gb module in the other would work. Obviously, I am living proof that it does work -- not that I want to do it again if I can get 8Gb instead.

I stick with Apple despite a lot of frustration because of the consistently stunning design over the years of most of their products. It must be very good or many of us would have stopped buying Macs that were consistently underpowered long ago. Like you, I would gladly pay what it took for an MBA with an i7, or even an i5, chip, decent graphics, 8Gb of RAM, and a 256Gb SSD. Is Apple likely to give us that choice? Ha!

I think we all stick with Apple despite frustration because we do like the cool factor, and we are being taken advantage of by Apple holding OS X hostage.

The problem with Macs is Apple makes just a few Macs that are supposed to cover ALL DEMAND for OS X users. Many of us, like me, don't want to carry around an extra pound of battery and half pound of optical drive in a MacBook Pro even if it didn't get any thinner. That is just one way to explain "hostage."

People often say, "well you cannot find a computer that competes with the MBP if it has every option at the price of the MBP." What they mean is you're forced to find a PC that has backlit keyboard, LED-backlit Display, 10-hour battery, mini Display Port, FireWire, aluminum case, and thinness/weight. But the problem is most people don't need all of those features. Most people would be completely happy with a $650 Gateway laptop with a 2.4 GHz CPU, BluRay, 250 GB HDD, and 15" display. But that doesn't "match" the MBP's specs so how could that be any comparison? It is a true comparison for the potential buyer who only needs what the Gateway has... and in this scenario the Gateway has a BluRay player AND is over $1000 less than an MBP!

So this is what I mean when I say Apple holds its beloved OS X hostage. Now the problem with Apple holding OS X hostage is the main portions of advantages of using OS X are quickly being wiped away by Microsoft's new Windows 7. It is truly equivalent to OS X on every front except the Virus situation... which is a biggie. But if Apple leaves OS X 10.7 sitting in a closet with no developers currently working on it so everyone is available for iPhone OS 4... well Apple could be quickly throwing its "hostage" away. I am very close to being completely happy with Windows 7. The thing is I don't check or open email attachments there. I don't add any "fun" application sent by a friend, and I cannot surf the entire web because I don't want to run AntiVirus software on my Windows 7. If Microsoft can further distance its users from the opportunities to "accidentally" get viruses, the two OSes might stand as equals.

So I think Apple better have an Ace up its sleeve to be acting wreckless as it currently is. Apple is betting the farm on iPhone OS 4, especially when it shuts down OS X 10.7 development for three or four months leading to iPhone OS 4 release. This is a problem because Apple shouldn't be taking these risks. Apple surely sees the opportunity to grab first time growing market buyers in the smartphone business.

Apple knows if it loses as bad with iPhone to Android as it did to Windows, that it will have to earn back every user which is a lot more difficult to do when there are carrier fees to early termination of wireless contracts, when there's the high cost of entry for the switcher, and when there's also the investment the user has made in his or her Android Apps. Apple wants to take as big a piece of the growing smartphone business as possible so it doesn't suffer like it has in the PC business. Let's face it, Apple has had the best PCs but it has lost the battle because it WAS NOT good at leading a company and making great strategic decisions. Apple has definitely learned from the PC business. Look at how it dominates not just Mp3 but also iTunes music industry businesses.

However great it is to focus on iPhone and iPhone OS products, Apple shouldn't be putting OS X 10.7 on a shelf. This could be its biggest mistake yet. Why not GROW the workforce to work on iPhone OS rather than abandon OS X 10.7? I just found the news about 10.7 to be an extremely tragic mistake on Apple's behalf. Surely Jobs and co need to boot a Windows 7 Mac and see what all the fuss is about... Apple needs to INNOVATE with its Macs and OS X as well as with its iPhone OS products. The latest MBP update was the most disappointing in a long time in terms of INNOVATION.

Yes, I have stuck with Apple even though it's easy to see the error in their ways. I have stuck with Apple even though it doesn't deserve my loyalty. Yes, I have stuck with Apple and WAITED to GIVE THEM MY MONEY! Apple, there's a problem when your buyers CANNOT buy the product they want... which is a relevant luxury ultraportable in the year 2010 when Apple says more than ever it's a MOBILITY COMPANY! If that is true, why not focus your best product over all time, OS X, and use the best mobile Mac you have in the ULTIMATE MacBook Air... just like we had in October 2008. If done right, the next MBA could outsell all MBAs before it... and even the 13" MBPs.

I hope the recent frustration is met with reward at WWDC. It is time to reward your Mac OS X users Apple, with a "Mobility Mac" that blows away the competition. The MacBook Air should be your statement of vision moving forward for where not just ultraportables are headed but ALL MOBILITY MACS! I am hyped up... two weeks to go, and I am going to promise myself to be positive.

Compile 'em all
May 23, 2010, 06:03 PM
I see it taking the same road as the Apple Tv updates only when it truly needs it the air is perfect for email web photos and and iTunes movies what Apple pushs as they sell it.

You know what is perfect for those things you mentioned?

Yep, that is right.

I am betting serious cash the MBA is EOL.

pharmx
May 23, 2010, 06:12 PM
You know what is perfect for those things you mentioned?

Yep, that is right.

I am betting serious cash the MBA is EOL.

If they announce an iPad that can run OS X....or if they offer a 13" MBP without the optical drive, and manage to make it thinner and lighter (3lb), I can see that as a possibility.

Until then, I'm going to hang onto the belief that a company that's identifying itself as mobile oriented would want to move a product like the MBA forward, and continue to innovate its design, no matter how niche the market is. As we've seen before, the MBA is usually used to "test" ideas before making it's way to other Apple products. I'm hoping that one of the reasons for this extended delay is that we're going to see something truly amazing soon, and it will make its debut with a brand new redesigned Air.

jnpy!$4g3cwk
May 23, 2010, 06:29 PM
All Apple notebook models have now been updated except for the Macbook Air, which has had the longest wait of them all.

We have 2 weeks to go to WWDC, what do you predict Steve Jobs has ordained for the MBA?An Ethernet port. Otherwise, it is already perfect.

pharmx
May 23, 2010, 06:40 PM
...
I hope the recent frustration is met with reward at WWDC. It is time to reward your Mac OS X users Apple, with a "Mobility Mac" that blows away the competition. The MacBook Air should be your statement of vision moving forward for where not just ultraportables are headed but ALL MOBILITY MACS! I am hyped up... two weeks to go, and I am going to promise myself to be positive.

I agree with some of what you said, although I don't believe the situation to be as dire as you've portrayed it. Two things I'd like to bring up though:

1) Although OS X may be seen as a "hostage", I hope Apple never separates their OS from their hardware. One of the reasons why Apple products are as good as they are is because of the benefit of being in complete control of software and hardware. However, they should definitely increase their developer pool, open up more API's, and do what it takes to get people interested in developing for Apple. Once upon a time their core customer base was skewed towards the professional side, and the limited availability of products (although frustrating) was accepted. Now with the core customer base being more "prosumer"/consumer oriented, a greater variety and selection of products will be expected, or even demanded from that population. Apple needs to do what it takes to meet that demand, and find a way to entice developers.

2) This is a somewhat related point, since it bridges the way to bring developers on board....the importance of iPhone OS. It made a lot of people start developing, or at the very least interested, for an Apple device. And while the relationship has been rocky, a small army of developers are still on board with Apple, ready to develop applications for any and all iDevices that are currently available and coming out in the future. The AppStore of course was a key factor in making this happen, but the fact remains that iPhone OS is gaining developers every day, and as the iPad proliferates, the rate will increase.

Now an interesting thing to consider here is that the iPhone OS is heavily based on Mac OSX. Mac applications use AppKit and Foundation frameworks, while iDevice applications use UIKit and Foundation frameworks. The reason why I find that interesting is because iPhone OS (and therefore iDevices) are running on ARM based products. As the iPhone OS evolves (and I expect them to change the name soon), I can see it replacing OSX (or at least the need for OSX) for the majority of Apple products, especially if they continue forward in their vision of being a mobile electronics company. To me it seems like this is the perfect way to start a transition, without "stirring up the pot" so to speak.

Scottsdale
May 23, 2010, 06:41 PM
You know what is perfect for those things you mentioned?

Yep, that is right.

I am betting serious cash the MBA is EOL.

Apple has just identified itself as a "Mobility Company," and you think it's going to EOL the most MOBILE device that runs OS X?

No, it doesn't make sense. Many things make sense. A new MBA that blows us away at WWDC makes sense. No update until late 2010 or early 2011 makes sense. A minor bump to Nvidia 320m, drive size boost, and RAM bump makes sense. A Core i7 MBA makes sense. A new case design makes sense. The current case design makes sense. Changing the MBA makes sense. Keeping it the same but boosting its RAM and drive space could triple, quadruple, or more the sales of the MBA... it makes sense.

Apple could rebrand the MBA, use the MBA designs in the MB and MBP, but that is not happening now... but makes sense. In one form or another the MBA represents where the Mac notebooks are going.

A lot of things make sense depending on how Apple views the MBA. The one thing that doesn't make sense, from a company that identifies itself as a Mobility company, is eliminating its most mobile product that runs its bread and butter, OS X.

I wouldn't wage much on what Apple does with the MBA, but I would wage a pretty penny that the MBA doesn't get EOL'd. That makes zero sense.

With Jobs coming out saying this year we're taking Macs to the "next level," and the MBP & MB updates being a joke, somewhere in the Mac lineup something incredible is bound to happen, no? It could be the Mac Pro being "next level" but would that make sense from a mobility company?

Remember the iMac updates last January 2009? They were terribly boring. There was nothing to them at all. In October 2009 the "REAL" updates came and they were "next level" for certain. Maybe Apple means next level will happen with the next MacBook Pro updates? Maybe Apple will converge the MBA design with the MBPs at some point? It just makes zero sense to EOL the MBA. It has been a launching board for the Mac notebook technologies and designs.

I would put a pretty penny on the MBA not being EOL'd. It just doesn't make sense.

jaykk
May 23, 2010, 06:46 PM
MBA , discontinued and replaced with iPad Air (A4 cpu).

voicegy
May 23, 2010, 06:53 PM
MBA , discontinued and replaced with iPad Air (A4 cpu).

Uh, iPad is already "air;" more so than the MBA, as it's basically half the weight. You do know that the "air" tacked on to the MBA refers to weight?

MBA will not be discontinued - that I'm willing to bet money on.

jaykk
May 23, 2010, 06:55 PM
Uh, iPad is already "air;" more so than the MBA, as it's basically half the weight. You do know that the "air" tacked on to the MBA refers to weight?

MBA will not be discontinued - that I'm willing to bet money on.

Thats true, may be iPad with a built-in KB :) iPad can play HD video better than MBA can. A4 CPU is the future.

gimmi80
May 23, 2010, 08:32 PM
Thats true, may be iPad with a built-in KB :) iPad can play HD video better than MBA can. A4 CPU is the future.

Whatever the incestuous relationship of MBA and ipad will create it's welcome if it runs os x.
If it's going to be an iPhone os creature will remain on the shelf.

mamboman
May 24, 2010, 01:06 PM
and I agree, most likely the IP grows into the niche the MBA owns now. But the question is when? With the IP just out in it's current form, it might make sense to let the MBA stay where it is (which is what happened when all the MB's got an upgrade) and then BOOM! drop the next IP that looks like a computer, rather than a Touch. OR, give the MBA a little love in the mean time while that IP badboy is growing up. Obviously, only Apple knows what's in store (no pun intended) in the near future, but I'd kind of like to see a little love for the MBA while it's little cousin gets more muscle. Just a thought...:rolleyes:

Scottsdale
May 24, 2010, 01:48 PM
and I agree, most likely the IP grows into the niche the MBA owns now. But the question is when? With the IP just out in it's current form, it might make sense to let the MBA stay where it is (which is what happened when all the MB's got an upgrade) and then BOOM! drop the next IP that looks like a computer, rather than a Touch. OR, give the MBA a little love in the mean time while that IP badboy is growing up. Obviously, only Apple knows what's in store (no pun intended) in the near future, but I'd kind of like to see a little love for the MBA while it's little cousin gets more muscle. Just a thought...:rolleyes:

I have read analyst reports that state what I have from the beginning. The iPad will consume more MB sales than any other Mac. The iPad is going to cannibalize more of the iPod Touch sales than any other Apple product.

I believe Apple has more incentive to create a better MBA than EOL it or converge it with the iPad. It truly makes no sense to have the iPad takeover the MBA right now. There are die hard OS X users that love the portability of the iPad. Some of these users seem to be looking into the MBA if it just was a little more powerful with some more RAM and larger drives I believe the MBA can grow because of the iPad. We have seen it in the forum members here.

Now those that were never the original market for the MBA who bought it via the "Great MacBook Air DUMPING" offering $3099 MBAs for $1299 and $1799 MBAs for $999, will be more likely to buy an iPad than an MBA... but those users NEVER were the intended market of the MBA. The MBA was not meant to be a secondary computer to other laptops like an MBP. The MBA was intended for those who could use the MBA as their primary Mac OR their primary laptop.

I think people have it all wrong IN THE SHORT-RUN. In the long-run the iPhone OS will compete better with OS X. The ease of use is what Apple always wanted with the Mac OSes over Windows. Well finally in 2007 it created the iPhone OS which could actually win the hearts and minds of those wanting to use technology but wanting a simpler learning experience than a Windows type system would afford. I would say for the next five years Macs become smaller and weigh less. These Macs will focus on what the MBA has been trying to accomplish. Apple will want to take the MB and MBP into the lightweight and thin zone of the MBA for certain.

There is a possibility the MacBook "Air" branding could go away but there's no possibility in the world that the ultraportable Mac that runs OS X is going away. People just aren't thinking about the primary target of the MBA. The iPad will do very well, but it's more liable to consume a larger percentage of the MB market than the intended MBA market. I see Apple further distancing the MBA as a luxury product again with the next update. Apple needs to raise the price by $200 or so to get it to a premium price point. In addition, it will have to cover the higher costs of the premium parts used to make the MBA better. A 256 GB SSD is quite costly especially in a 1.8" form factor. All the miniature silicon are more expensive.

thinkdesign
May 24, 2010, 01:59 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

So, this i7 version Air could debut at WWDC? (Since the chips' announcement may have occurred later than Apple receiving them? Or, an i7 Air can't be that early? ---- And what does this do to the HD/HQ video watching "my video turned into a slide show" and "egg frying" question?

jb1280
May 24, 2010, 02:09 PM
I don't know which group of people are more ridiculous, the ones clamoring for the a merger of the mac mini and the Apple TV or the group clamoring that the iPad means the demise of the Macbook Air.

Surely there are overlaps in their capability, but each device exists for its own discreet purpose. 5-10 years from now the situation might be different, but for the foreseeable future there exists a strong rationale for the existence of the Macbook Air.

Someone who is just looking for a device to browse the web, do email, and watch movies is probably not going to spend over $1500. Someone who is looking to spend that much for a desktop class OS notebook is not going to be convinced to replace it with a device that has $499 of functionality.

mamboman
May 24, 2010, 02:09 PM
I have read analyst reports that state what I have from the beginning. The iPad will consume more MB sales than any other Mac. The iPad is going to cannibalize more of the iPod Touch sales than any other Apple product.

I believe Apple has more incentive to create a better MBA than EOL it or converge it with the iPad. It truly makes no sense to have the iPad takeover the MBA right now. There are die hard OS X users that love the portability of the iPad. Some of these users seem to be looking into the MBA if it just was a little more powerful with some more RAM and larger drives I believe the MBA can grow because of the iPad. We have seen it in the forum members here.

Now those that were never the original market for the MBA who bought it via the "Great MacBook Air DUMPING" offering $3099 MBAs for $1299 and $1799 MBAs for $999, will be more likely to buy an iPad than an MBA... but those users NEVER were the intended market of the MBA. The MBA was not meant to be a secondary computer to other laptops like an MBP. The MBA was intended for those who could use the MBA as their primary Mac OR their primary laptop.

I think people have it all wrong IN THE SHORT-RUN. In the long-run the iPhone OS will compete better with OS X. The ease of use is what Apple always wanted with the Mac OSes over Windows. Well finally in 2007 it created the iPhone OS which could actually win the hearts and minds of those wanting to use technology but wanting a simpler learning experience than a Windows type system would afford. I would say for the next five years Macs become smaller and weigh less. These Macs will focus on what the MBA has been trying to accomplish. Apple will want to take the MB and MBP into the lightweight and thin zone of the MBA for certain.

There is a possibility the MacBook "Air" branding could go away but there's no possibility in the world that the ultraportable Mac that runs OS X is going away. People just aren't thinking about the primary target of the MBA. The iPad will do very well, but it's more liable to consume a larger percentage of the MB market than the intended MBA market. I see Apple further distancing the MBA as a luxury product again with the next update. Apple needs to raise the price by $200 or so to get it to a premium price point. In addition, it will have to cover the higher costs of the premium parts used to make the MBA better. A 256 GB SSD is quite costly especially in a 1.8" form factor. All the miniature silicon are more expensive.


I agree, the MBA has fit perfectly in it's "niche" for travel and I think competes admirably with the "ultras" like the Adamo (please, this is not about comparisons!). I wouldn't expect that to go away at all. I'm simply wondering if Apple doesn't have some idea that they can find the hybrid between the Pad and the MBA which would not be marketed as MBA but more of the Pad-Fad type thing. In any case, I would certainly agree that if the MBA gets a good boost, it holds the "niche" just fine. If not, I would take that as a signal that something "new" is coming. That "new" thing (and I realize I'm speculating like crazy here) I would bet looks like a cross between Pad and MBA. And personally speaking, give me a beefed up MBA any day. I'm no expert (obviously), but looking at it from the consumer side...For example, I saw a Charlie Rose show the other day where he gushed over the Pad. He had the WSJ and NYT critics on. There was about an hour gushing about the Pad. Even with the voice of reason pointing out it's no computer, there's all this talk of "the future." I just hope the MBA gets increased functionality and can hold out rather than yield to a less than adequate Pad. But, I'm just feeling the rush to push the Pad. Anyway, just a little more of my 2 cents.

bluescity
May 24, 2010, 05:37 PM
I am hyped up... two weeks to go, and I am going to promise myself to be positive.

Ok Scottsdale, we're going to hold you to it. Two weeks of positive...I don't know.... Bets anyone?

Myself, I so badly want to buy a new mac NOW the next two weeks are going to require serious will power.

johnnymg
May 24, 2010, 11:17 PM
Ok Scottsdale, we're going to hold you to it. Two weeks of positive...I don't know.... Bets anyone?

Myself, I so badly want to buy a new mac NOW the next two weeks are going to require serious will power.

Going by macrumors threads it seems like there's more eagerness for a MP than a MBA. Is that your sense or do I have that one wrong?

FWIW, I'd be quite disappointed from a shareholders perspective if at least the MBA or MP wasn't announced at the conference. We need one more thing (besides the 4G iphone) to really zing aapl. JMO ~~~~~

cheers
johnG

entatlrg
May 25, 2010, 12:38 AM
With only two Tuesday's to go before WWDC can we assume it's highly unlikely Apple will introduce anything new between now and then, such as the MP or MBA?

bluescity
May 25, 2010, 12:47 PM
Going by macrumors threads it seems like there's more eagerness for a MP than a MBA. Is that your sense or do I have that one wrong?

FWIW, I'd be quite disappointed from a shareholders perspective if at least the MBA or MP wasn't announced at the conference. We need one more thing (besides the 4G iphone) to really zing aapl. JMO ~~~~~

cheers
johnG

Hard for me to say, I don't follow all the threads. I think the MBA hopefuls like myself are particularly rabid, but we are undoubtedly a niche. If the MBA isn't announced, I think it is a definite sign they have decided to shift their identity away from being on the cutting edge of notebooks. I have no opinion on what that means about Apple per se, but from a purely selfish perspective I'll be disappointed.

zedsdead
May 25, 2010, 01:26 PM
With only two Tuesday's to go before WWDC can we assume it's highly unlikely Apple will introduce anything new between now and then, such as the MP or MBA?

Jobs did unveil Youtube for Apple TV at all things digital last time he attended, so you never kniw if he will bring something new with him. I doubt it, but it possible.

diddl14
May 25, 2010, 03:15 PM
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/05/new-intel-ulv-processors-still-a-bad-fit-for-macbook-air.ars

gimmi80
May 25, 2010, 05:47 PM
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/05/new-intel-ulv-processors-still-a-bad-fit-for-macbook-air.ars

That's not good.

entatlrg
May 25, 2010, 08:39 PM
That's not good.

Yea, not good at all. Apple has to be either taking the Air to the next amazing level with their own chips, or maybe it is EOL for the air as we go the way of the ipad, I'm beginning to fear the later :(

gwsat
May 25, 2010, 10:04 PM
The disquieting news about the unsuitability of Intel's new mobile processor for use in the MBA is bad news, indeed. It appears that Apple is in a corner and will either have to discontinue the MBA, offer an inferior version, or change its design significantly. Maybe the iPad can be a worthy successor to the MBA but it's a long way from it at the moment.

thinkdesign
May 26, 2010, 03:50 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

The Ars T. article seems lacking in sources. As was the one from the computer mag recently ending with yammering about a touch-screen. ---- Certainly the notion of core duo plus bigger 4gb RAM, etc. not being "enough" of an update to manufacture, comes across as -- conclusion first, and reasoning to get there, second. ------ There are lots of "smaller" things that, in a BUNDLE of say 4 or 5 improvements, could be added on top of the Core Duo solution: If speed is also gained by RAM, upgrade to 6, not just 4. Offer BTO of higher and higher SSDs to 512. Throw in more jacks, and a lock slot. Boost screen quality. If not redesiging the case substantially, just thicken the thick end imperceptably so the UFO-like pop-out door can ge eliminated and jacks can fit on that edge (and then crow about having gained an hour or 2 of battery life). In other words, if the chip situation disappoints, ease up on the design's stinginess elsewhere.

kyochin
May 26, 2010, 04:28 AM
Good things come to those who wait...
Just wait and accept the consequence whatever it will be, that's the way I found out after 15 years with Apple.

Gruber
May 26, 2010, 05:49 AM
Hopefully, the Air gets discontinued. I hate waiting for an update, and then be disappointed with some crappy 4GB and C2D, while PCs are moving on...

I also hate going back to Windows for my on-the-road laptop, but at least I get to buy up-to-date hardware.

tim100
May 26, 2010, 08:37 AM
Apple has just identified itself as a "Mobility Company," and you think it's going to EOL the most MOBILE device that runs OS X?

No, it doesn't make sense. Many things make sense. A new MBA that blows us away at WWDC makes sense. No update until late 2010 or early 2011 makes sense. A minor bump to Nvidia 320m, drive size boost, and RAM bump makes sense. A Core i7 MBA makes sense. A new case design makes sense. The current case design makes sense. Changing the MBA makes sense. Keeping it the same but boosting its RAM and drive space could triple, quadruple, or more the sales of the MBA... it makes sense.

Apple could rebrand the MBA, use the MBA designs in the MB and MBP, but that is not happening now... but makes sense. In one form or another the MBA represents where the Mac notebooks are going.

A lot of things make sense depending on how Apple views the MBA. The one thing that doesn't make sense, from a company that identifies itself as a Mobility company, is eliminating its most mobile product that runs its bread and butter, OS X.

I wouldn't wage much on what Apple does with the MBA, but I would wage a pretty penny that the MBA doesn't get EOL'd. That makes zero sense.

With Jobs coming out saying this year we're taking Macs to the "next level," and the MBP & MB updates being a joke, somewhere in the Mac lineup something incredible is bound to happen, no? It could be the Mac Pro being "next level" but would that make sense from a mobility company?

Remember the iMac updates last January 2009? They were terribly boring. There was nothing to them at all. In October 2009 the "REAL" updates came and they were "next level" for certain. Maybe Apple means next level will happen with the next MacBook Pro updates? Maybe Apple will converge the MBA design with the MBPs at some point? It just makes zero sense to EOL the MBA. It has been a launching board for the Mac notebook technologies and designs.

I would put a pretty penny on the MBA not being EOL'd. It just doesn't make sense.

I hope they dont EOL the air. If they dont upate the air, why not remove the optical drive from the pro and make them thinner?

Apple!Fre@k
May 26, 2010, 11:39 PM
I hope they dont EOL the air. If they dont upate the air, why not remove the optical drive from the pro and make them thinner?

Only chance of that happening is on the 13". People with the 15" and 17" use those are their primary machine and no one wants to have an accessory to play CDs/DVDs with their primary computer -- at least, a vast majority doesn't. Instead, Apple should just invent new optical drive technology and cut its thickness in half, almost to the thickness of a CD itself. There's a price for making anything possible. I'm sure Apple's got enough money in the bank to make it happen.

thinkdesign
May 27, 2010, 07:33 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

I'm getting a sinking feeling that Apple's just-completed "cloud" facility ... providing Tivo-like but remote storage especially for (?) the iToys (iPhone, iPad) might BE what the "next level" rhetoric means. Aw gee, there's a limit to how much memory we can fit into your iToy, but, no matter, step this way to become entangled in our centralised storage facility.

brendu
May 27, 2010, 10:05 AM
A lot of things make sense depending on how Apple views the MBA. The one thing that doesn't make sense, from a company that identifies itself as a Mobility company, is eliminating its most mobile product that runs its bread and butter, OS X.

With Jobs coming out saying this year we're taking Macs to the "next level," and the MBP & MB updates being a joke, somewhere in the Mac lineup something incredible is bound to happen, no? It could be the Mac Pro being "next level" but would that make sense from a mobility company?

two problems with what your saying here..
1. OSX is no longer apple's bread and butter... iPhone OS is making them a ton more money than OSX is... look at their revenue stream ever since the iPhone launched (and more importantly the app store)... That is their focus because THAT is their bread and butter...

2. Steve Jobs is full of ****. "this year were taking macs to the next level" that does not mean anything. All it means is "yeah we will be upgrading them so they are on the next level".... this is the same guy who keeps calling a big iPod magical... sure its cool and fun, but there is nothing magical about it... steve spits out BS and you eat it up.

will there be an update to the air.? Yeah most likely... but dont expect steve to deliver too much on the whole "taking it to the next level" garbage...

Scottsdale
May 27, 2010, 10:48 AM
two problems with what your saying here..
1. OSX is no longer apple's bread and butter... iPhone OS is making them a ton more money than OSX is... look at their revenue stream ever since the iPhone launched (and more importantly the app store)... That is their focus because THAT is their bread and butter...

2. Steve Jobs is full of ****. "this year were taking macs to the next level" that does not mean anything. All it means is "yeah we will be upgrading them so they are on the next level".... this is the same guy who keeps calling a big iPod magical... sure its cool and fun, but there is nothing magical about it... steve spits out BS and you eat it up.

will there be an update to the air.? Yeah most likely... but dont expect steve to deliver too much on the whole "taking it to the next level" garbage...

I don't mean that OS X makes Apple money itself, but it sells every Mac over a PC. OS X is critical to Apple's Mac computers. People buy Macs as Apple holds OS X hostage.

The iPhone OS might make Apple more money right now, although that's not true either. But the point is Apple needs to continue innovation with OS X. Apple cannot afford to stop innovating and developing OS X as Windows has caught up. I believe Apple is making a huge mistake if it's truly stopping OS X 10.7 development so it can put all hands on iPhone OS 4. I just don't think Apple should forget how it got here, Mac OS X. Surely it should move forward with BOTH OS X and iPhone OS.

I do believe the recent MBP updates were a joke, and definitely didn't bring "next level" to the Macs. More than anything, we used to be able to count on one innovative advantage with every Mac update, but this recent MacBook Pro updates brought no innovation not already available in PC competitors. Apple used to have a glass multitouch trackpad, backlit keyboard, 8-hour battery, LED backlit display, Mini DisplayPort, aluminum case, and etc. There was always something that wasn't available in PCs that set the Macs apart. Innovation if you will. The latest MBPs brought same Nvidia GPU, or same switching between Intel GMA and discrete Nvidia GPU available in other systems like Sony's or even Nvidia's own Optimus. In addition, the only other new tech in the MBPs was a slightly better resolution available in 15" displays at a higher cost. Again, there are PCs with higher resolution than the 15" MBP got as an option. The point is there was nothing new.

I expect more from Apple, and I fear that Apple has given its Macs a cold shoulder while focusing too much on iPhone OS products. I hope that I am wrong in thinking this, and I hope Apple proves me wrong at WWDC with a real innovative Mac solution in an MBA or even a Mac Pro. However, I believe Apple would focus more on the MBA since it's a mobility company. I am not going to discount Apple as fast as one update and they're done innovating. We could see a better innovative MBA update now or even MBP updates later in the year that are truly innovative versus competition. Remember the Early 2009 iMac updates were a joke, but then Apple redeemed itself in October 2009 with relevant iMac updates that were much better systems.

I am not giving up on Apple yet...

bluescity
May 27, 2010, 10:05 PM
. steve spits out BS and you eat it up.

...


Whoa! Scottsdale - why are you taking that lip. I didn't think you took that kind of trash talk from anyone.

soph
May 28, 2010, 03:11 AM
Whoa! Scottsdale - why are you taking that lip. I didn't think you took that kind of trash talk from anyone.

If I'm not unjustly overinterpreting Scottsdale I think you could take it as an indication of just how unhappy Scottsdale is with the recent updates. But then it could have slipped his attention, too :)

Scottsdale
May 28, 2010, 12:31 PM
If I'm not unjustly overinterpreting Scottsdale I think you could take it as an indication of just how unhappy Scottsdale is with the recent updates. But then it could have slipped his attention, too :)

Quite honestly, I don't view the argument as a personal attack. What I hate is when people call others names here and moderators do nothing about it. Saying that I eat SJ's BS is partially true. Most of us do. Many are far worse and believe everything he says. I am trying to be positive and give Apple benefit of doubt until WWDC. I do believe there's something behind taking Macs to the next level.

I believe with the MBPs it will ultimately happen with their next update; remember iMacs got a minimal update after a long wait last year, then later in the year they got a real update. I believe the same could be true for the MBPs. It seems like Apple implemented something just to keep sales up until they could get the real update out. Now I could be wrong in my logic, but I bet late 2010 or early 2011 brings a real update to the MBP and all Mac notebooks. Apple will have to take a different strategy with C2D by that time, so why not adjust the lineup together.

pharmx
May 28, 2010, 12:59 PM
...

I believe with the MBPs it will ultimately happen with their next update; remember iMacs got a minimal update after a long wait last year, then later in the year they got a real update. I believe the same could be true for the MBPs. It seems like Apple implemented something just to keep sales up until they could get the real update out. Now I could be wrong in my logic, but I bet late 2010 or early 2011 brings a real update to the MBP and all Mac notebooks. Apple will have to take a different strategy with C2D by that time, so why not adjust the lineup together.

I agree with this assessment. It also explains the delay with the MBA (assuming it's not getting the c2d and 320m), for two reasons:

1) The MBA serves a niche population, so delaying the update affects far less people than it would if the other laptops were delayed. Since the MBA is also seen as somewhat of a testing ground for new ideas, it would make sense to experiment with it first. We might see in the MBA first, what may trickle down to the MBP's in the next update.

2) Intel's tick-tock system pushes Apple into an update cycle that doesn't mesh well with their selling or marketing strategies. With the MBP's, Apple had no choice but to update...and even that was delayed to shortages. Maybe someone can back the following statement with some numbers, but I'm willing to bet that on average Apple owners keep their Macs longer than PC owners keep their systems. If people are not buying as frequently, then it doesn't make sense to spend money updating, if the ROI isn't profitable.

It's all speculation at this point, but I'm excited at the prospect of a redesigned MBA :D

jcoop
May 28, 2010, 05:32 PM
Okay, folks, I've just pretty much guaranteed a refreshed MBA next week--by buying a 1.86 GHz/128 GB SSD model for just over a thousand dollars today. I'm traveling next week and would really like to have it for the trip, and I know I'm not going to want to spend the money for a new one in any event (and I'm assuming the entry price won't drop by $485).

You can thank me next week. :)

Scottsdale
May 28, 2010, 06:39 PM
Okay, folks, I've just pretty much guaranteed a refreshed MBA next week--by buying a 1.86 GHz/128 GB SSD model for just over a thousand dollars today. I'm traveling next week and would really like to have it for the trip, and I know I'm not going to want to spend the money for a new one in any event (and I'm assuming the entry price won't drop by $485).

You can thank me next week. :)

Heck, I will thank you in advance!

It's actually ten days until WWDC. Since you updated, we can expect a Core i7, ATI 5430, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, along with case redesign to a thinner model, glass trackpad, IPS display, 10-hour battery... all weighing in at 2 lb... and costing $999.

I hope you're just that "unlucky" for buying now! Come on SJ, punish the unfaithful and reward us faithful!

JK.

Zulu1
May 28, 2010, 07:25 PM
Well I finally got my hands on an iPad today (Canada) and I have to say I was underwhelmed. It's cool for sure, but it's smaller than I thought and it can't compete with a true multi-tasking laptop.
I am really surprised they've sold so many ( and I sure many more in this release), it's really a "neat factor" in my opinion, but if you have one good on you.

I can see the use, but my the money has already burnt a hole in my pocket and is now starting on the socks waiting to be spent on a new Air. I just wish they'd get it over with, or at least announce they will release when they get the chipset figured out.

I already have a tablet (Win7) which I like, but it's so heavy and does not run OS-X; please Steve release the Air so I can run everything I want on a nice light laptop.

I guess a more interestign poll will be; If nothing is updated at WWDC, how many will "settle" for something else :D

pharmx
May 28, 2010, 08:41 PM
Well I finally got my hands on an iPad today (Canada) and I have to say I was underwhelmed. It's cool for sure, but it's smaller than I thought and it can't compete with a true multi-tasking laptop.
I am really surprised they've sold so many ( and I sure many more in this release), it's really a "neat factor" in my opinion, but if you have one good on you.

I can see the use, but my the money has already burnt a hole in my pocket and is now starting on the socks waiting to be spent on a new Air. I just wish they'd get it over with, or at least announce they will release when they get the chipset figured out.

I already have a tablet (Win7) which I like, but it's so heavy and does not run OS-X; please Steve release the Air so I can run everything I want on a nice light laptop.

I guess a more interestign poll will be; If nothing is updated at WWDC, how many will "settle" for something else :D

That poll already exists: link (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=912009)

jcoop
May 28, 2010, 08:52 PM
Oops, got my weeks wrong. I always get confused around holidays. In any event, this is good for me--I get to enjoy my MBA for a few more days before it gets trumped by the new release.

Cheffy Dave
May 29, 2010, 02:08 PM
THIN IS IN, LIGHT IS RIGHT!
The MBA will be a hit along the lines of the new Magical iPad, After WWC, you will be amazed! BE PATIENT GRASSHOPPER!:cool:very:cool: stuff is coming!

Cheffy Dave
May 29, 2010, 02:11 PM
:eek:OH SCOTTSDALE! (we can expect a Core i7, ATI 5430, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, along with case redesign to a thinner model, glass trackpad, IPS display, 10-hour battery... all weighing in at 2 lb... and costing $999.)
You made me wet my Depends!:D

Scottsdale
May 29, 2010, 06:05 PM
:eek:OH SCOTTSDALE! (we can expect a Core i7, ATI 5430, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, along with case redesign to a thinner model, glass trackpad, IPS display, 10-hour battery... all weighing in at 2 lb... and costing $999.)
You made me wet my Depends!:D

Well, I am not honestly predicting that, just playing along with jcoop. I am hopeful for something great or even just a C2D and Nvidia 320m along with 4 GB RAM and a glass trackpad.

iSpoody 1243
May 30, 2010, 04:26 AM
i think a modest update and a small price drop will get more sold.
most people that i see using mba have it as their only computer.
the processor in the mba is more than capable enough.
ram and gpu upgrade seem like that would be the least.
eol or major refresh seems more likely in beginning of 2011.

Winni
May 30, 2010, 12:11 PM
All Apple notebook models have now been updated except for the Macbook Air, which has had the longest wait of them all.

We have 2 weeks to go to WWDC, what do you predict Steve Jobs has ordained for the MBA?

The MacBook Air is dead - it targets almost the same audience as the iPad but is three times more expensive. I don't think that it still has a market outside the "executive prestige toys" niche.

gyus
May 30, 2010, 03:37 PM
Why in the world would they get rid of the separate video card and go with the intel graphics card? Just so it could use the core i7? AFAIK the intel video doesn't even support open CL. So that would be a a major step backwards and be clearly against their advertising push in snow leopard.

same C2D, 4 gb RAM and a 320M card. Thats it.

No case redesign.

MBA is not going anywhere.

I am so sick of ipad/ ipod/ iphone/ os4/ AT&T / Verizon news. Apple needs to re-focus on their computer line and OSX.

Maybe a more substantial refresh in January.

entatlrg
May 30, 2010, 06:24 PM
The MacBook Air is dead - it targets almost the same audience as the iPad but is three times more expensive. I don't think that it still has a market outside the "executive prestige toys" niche.

LOL, it targets no where near the same audience.

Have you used both an iPad and Macbook Air extensively? I have, and once the cool/wow factor wears off it's sure nice to get back to the MacBook Air to do some 'real' typing and get work done at a much faster pace.

Anyone who buys an iPad thinking it can do as much and costs so much less than a MacBook Air is fooling themselves. Your time is worth money and it takes longer to do creative tasks on an iPad and it's limited to what tasks it can do.

Even Apple acknowledges it's a consumption, enjoyment device not a laptop replacement of any sort.

jk1002
May 30, 2010, 09:13 PM
What people fail to realize that more and more people use macbooks for work.

I travel a decent amount and i stare many hours a day at that screen.

I can't get used to glossy, that leaves me with 15" and 17" which are too large and heavy and way more expensive.

An ipad is not a serious option for work.

Apple has to consider the businessmarket, not just hipsters that surf at starbucks or stumptown or wherever they hang out these days.

pharmx
May 30, 2010, 09:20 PM
The MacBook Air is dead - it targets almost the same audience as the iPad but is three times more expensive. I don't think that it still has a market outside the "executive prestige toys" niche.

Saying the MBA targets the same audience as the iPad is about as ignorant as saying Windows 7 sucks. In both cases the statement is false, and usually made by people with little or no experience with the product being discussed.

skate71290
May 31, 2010, 10:31 AM
voicegy -- I just wish that I could be absolutely certain that 4Gb of RAM would be enough to allow me to run several Windows apps and several more OS X apps simultaneously from the OS X desktop with VMware Fusion in Unity mode. I am cautiously optimistic because I have been running just such a setup with only 2Gb of RAM and 1 processor core dedicated to the Fusion vm. I keep trying to get some feedback from others who have satisfactorily run a bunch ow Windows and OS X apps simultaneously in Unity mode with only 4Gb of RAM. So far, though, I haven't seen a thing that seemed definitive.

I like the iPad but only as an adjunct to a real computer, to be used for limited purposes while in situations that make a laptop inconvenient. The iPad is not suited for either document creation or numbers crunching. It's a lightweight device, which should be limited to being used for lightweight purposes.

Hey, got the Rev A 1.6GHZ 80GB PATA MBA (Signature) and well to be frank it can handle Parallels 5 Windows 7 and OSX simultaneously for about 10 minutes, but the laptop can then heat my bedroom up, which in turn slows the processor down to save your laptop from melting internally and you will slowly notice that the whole computer comes to a halt... it's pretty cool, you can do it by watching videos on YouTube as well, makes me laugh.... until it becomes annoying! something that really annoys me... Windows 7 allows you to use Flash Drives to improve RAM on your computer... why can't OSX do anything like that, especially on these 2GB MBAs?

gwsat
May 31, 2010, 10:42 AM
LOL, it targets no where near the same audience.

Have you used both an iPad and Macbook Air extensively? I have, and once the cool/wow factor wears off it's sure nice to get back to the MacBook Air to do some 'real' typing and get work done at a much faster pace.

Anyone who buys an iPad thinking it can do as much and costs so much less than a MacBook Air is fooling themselves. Your time is worth money and it takes longer to do creative tasks on an iPad and it's limited to what tasks it can do.

Even Apple acknowledges it's a consumption, enjoyment device not a laptop replacement of any sort.
Indeed! Anyone who claims that the iPad has the ability to substitute for any real computer, no matter how modest, has been misinformed. I have an iPad and like it for playing Netflix streaming and downloaded CD titles. I use its browser for a quick and dirty reference when I am watching TV but that's about it. The iPad's email client is so primitive so as to be virtually useless. Unless you add a third party program and are prepared to do some work to set it up, the iPad's ability to transfer information, other than via email, is nonexistent. The iPad is fun and remarkably capable when properly viewed as a recreational device but lacks the ability to do the kind of work we do routinely on genuine computers. Trust me on this.

skate71290
May 31, 2010, 10:57 AM
Quite honestly, I don't view the argument as a personal attack. What I hate is when people call others names here and moderators do nothing about it. Saying that I eat SJ's BS is partially true. Most of us do. Many are far worse and believe everything he says. I am trying to be positive and give Apple benefit of doubt until WWDC. I do believe there's something behind taking Macs to the next level.

I believe with the MBPs it will ultimately happen with their next update; remember iMacs got a minimal update after a long wait last year, then later in the year they got a real update. I believe the same could be true for the MBPs. It seems like Apple implemented something just to keep sales up until they could get the real update out. Now I could be wrong in my logic, but I bet late 2010 or early 2011 brings a real update to the MBP and all Mac notebooks. Apple will have to take a different strategy with C2D by that time, so why not adjust the lineup together.

While yes, i do have an iPhone i am getting really ****** off with waiting for a MBA update... Apple's Mac Range is beyond **** and OSX is actually, for the first time in 3 years (since i moved to Mac) worse than Windows, the Sony Vaio Z pisses all over every Apple Laptop and the iPod Touch/iPhone/iPad, while arguably making Apple freaking millions of Dollars still does not justify stopping the development of 10.7 (Clouded Leopard :P) and i believe that Mac sales, while suggested by analysts are not cannabilsed by iPad sales, will dwindle fairly quickly, especially if Windows 8 is released by 2012

calderone
May 31, 2010, 11:01 AM
Indeed! Anyone who claims that the iPad has the ability to substitute for any real computer, no matter how modest, has been misinformed. I have an iPad and like it for playing Netflix streaming and downloaded CD titles. I use its browser for a quick and dirty reference when I am watching TV but that's about it. The iPad's email client is so primitive so as to be virtually useless. Unless you add a third party program and are prepared to do some work to set it up, the iPad's ability to transfer information, other than via email, is nonexistent. The iPad is fun and remarkably capable when properly viewed as a recreational device but lacks the ability to do the kind of work we do routinely on genuine computers. Trust me on this.

Misinformed?

The definition of "computing" widely varies. For some it is facebook, for others it may be word processing and spreadsheets.

"Work" also has varied definitions, since we all do different work.

These generalized statements about what the iPad can and cannot do are worthless, just as generalized statements about the Air would not be accepted by many.

If I said "The MBA cannot be used for any serious video editing." There would be a number of people that would pop in and disagree saying "Well I do it and it works just fine!"

Or if I said "The MBA can't hardly be considered a real computer, it has virtually no expandability options and is underpowered compared to other offerings."

People would disagree, obviously. But neither of these opinions are wrong, they simply come from a different perspective. Just as the negative comments about the iPad come from a different perspective, but I would hardly call you misinformed if you didn't think the fictional comments I made above about the Air were true,

All of the things I used my Air for I can do on the iPad. So the iPad, for me did replace a "real" computer. That decision came down to what I used the Air for. With a Mac Pro, which I am on most of the time. The MBA didn't make sense.

Now, if a person is doing any serious audio, video, photo, etc etc etc. I think they already know an iPad can't replace a computer that would be used for those purposes. But if they have a powerful desktop, or a desktop, the MBA can be replaced by an iPad.

In response to the person you responded to, the MBA and iPad can indeed target the same audience. The audience of individuals that want a light weight device to do their "computing." Which they choose will be dependent upon what needs they have.

While yes, i do have an iPhone i am getting really ****** off with waiting for a MBA update... Apple's Mac Range is beyond **** and OSX is actually, for the first time in 3 years (since i moved to Mac) worse than Windows, the Sony Vaio Z pisses all over every Apple Laptop and the iPod Touch/iPhone/iPad, while arguably making Apple freaking millions of Dollars still does not justify stopping the development of 10.7 (Clouded Leopard :P) and i believe that Mac sales, while suggested by analysts are not cannabilsed by iPad sales, will dwindle fairly quickly, especially if Windows 8 is released by 2012

In what way is OS X worse than Windows?

skate71290
May 31, 2010, 11:14 AM
Misinformed?

The definition of "computing" widely varies. For some it is facebook, for others it may be word processing and spreadsheets.

"Work" also has varied definitions, since we all do different work.

These generalized statements about what the iPad can and cannot do are worthless, just as generalized statements about the Air would not be accepted by many.

If I said "The MBA cannot be used for any serious video editing." There would be a number of people that would pop in and disagree saying "Well I do it and it works just fine!"

Or if I said "The MBA can't hardly be considered a real computer, it has virtually no expandability options and is underpowered compared to other offerings."

People would disagree, obviously. But neither of these opinions are wrong, they simply come from a different perspective. Just as the negative comments about the iPad come from a different perspective, but I would hardly call you misinformed if you didn't think the fictional comments I made above about the Air were true,

All of the things I used my Air for I can do on the iPad. So the iPad, for me did replace a "real" computer. That decision came down to what I used the Air for. With a Mac Pro, which I am on most of the time. The MBA didn't make sense.

Now, if a person is doing any serious audio, video, photo, etc etc etc. I think they already know an iPad can't replace a computer that would be used for those purposes. But if they have a powerful desktop, or a desktop, the MBA can be replaced by an iPad.

In response to the person you responded to, the MBA and iPad can indeed target the same audience. The audience of individuals that want a light weight device to do their "computing." Which they choose will be dependent upon what needs they have.



In what way is OS X worse than Windows?

Adobe Flash Player, iTunes, iPhoto, iWork, Safari, Quicktime X... just to name a few ;) These applications on my MBA (Signature) can only be run perhaps one or two simultaneously, whereas the Windows Alternatives (Bootcamp) i can run, Chrome, iTunes, Picasa 3, Office 2007 (Word and Powerpoint) simultaneously, while this is not techno benchmark geeky stuff with numbers it is real-life performance and OSX sucks!

Edit: WiFi, File Transfer, Finder are worse than the Windows alternatives

Scottsdale
May 31, 2010, 11:30 AM
LOL, it targets no where near the same audience.

Have you used both an iPad and Macbook Air extensively? I have, and once the cool/wow factor wears off it's sure nice to get back to the MacBook Air to do some 'real' typing and get work done at a much faster pace.

Anyone who buys an iPad thinking it can do as much and costs so much less than a MacBook Air is fooling themselves. Your time is worth money and it takes longer to do creative tasks on an iPad and it's limited to what tasks it can do.

Even Apple acknowledges it's a consumption, enjoyment device not a laptop replacement of any sort.

So true. But it's understandable that those who have never used or own an MBA would think the iPad is the same market. Someone who has never used an MBA and read the stories that the original MBA was such a failure never give the MBA any credit. Honestly, Apple brought it on themselves with the original MBA's complete disaster.

The MBA's brand today still suffers tremendously because SJ got up and introduced the MBA in January 2008 that was NOT ready for sale especially as a "MacBook." If Apple would have introduced the v 2,1 MBA as the "original" MBA in October 2008, I believe the MBA branding would be amazing. It's just too bad that Apple doesn't fully test its products as everything is so secretive that it seems it doesn't even truly know what its new products are capable of until the product is released and sold. I know many are going to protect Apple and say I am wrong, but I believe it's so secretive that it's counterproductive and causes Apple to introduce original products like the original MBA that completely fail in user expectations. Even if Apple did a 50 computer testing with developers, it would figure out more of these problems ahead of time.

I imagine that the original MBA was tested inside of a case that was bigger than the actual case and cooled better. I have learned that Apple tests its prototype systems in cases that are like plain boxes so the product testers don't see and leak what Apple is going to release. Is it really worth it to hide its products so well that it doesn't even know what those products are capable of for the end user? The big problem with the original MBA was SJ got up and told everyone it was a Mac, when in fact it didn't work and do what people expected from Macs. Apple learns its lessons really well and rev B products are always much better. It's just too bad because with the MBA we can see how badly the system fails its new product buyers at times.

Saying the MBA targets the same audience as the iPad is about as ignorant as saying Windows 7 sucks. In both cases the statement is false, and usually made by people with little or no experience with the product being discussed.

Agreed. People that don't actually use BOTH products cannot imagine the real world usage differences. People that don't really need a computer, or just need a secondary device for entertainment purposes never needed an MBA and will believe the iPad is the "same" device at 1/4 the cost. In reality, we all know the MBA is actually targeting people that want to use the MBA as a primary Mac, or those who need a real computing device and use the MBA as their primary NOTEBOOK, and those who want an ultraportable for traveling and will pay for extreme portability but OS X/Windows 7 capable.

Those who use a Mac Pro at home for "heavy lifting" could love the MBA for computing on the go. Those of us who are business professionals, students, or anyone who needs a "real" computer but not a "real powerful" computer can use the MBA for everything we need. And those who travel often see the advantages of the 3 lb. MBA when we don't need an MBP with a 10-hour battery or an optical drive. Let's face it, the average computer user doesn't need any more power or performance than the MBA provides. Some people like "more power" when they're never really using it. Some of us are willing to pay more for a computer that has plenty of power for what we need yet saves on weight by not having a 10-hour battery that we aren't going to use anyways or an optical drive that's a waste of space.

I can understand how someone doesn't understand the differences between the iPad and MBA. I can also understand some people that bought the "dumped" MBAs for $999 to $1299 can see the iPad as a better tool for the job that they're using it for. What they are looking for is a device to check email, do light web browsing, and an occasional small pages document. The average person might use a computer at work and only needs an iPad at home as they don't need a complete computer. I am really starting to understand why people say they think the iPad is a better device than the MBA.

The truth in all of this is the MB is going to experience more cannibalism to the iPad than any other Mac. People that buy MBs for their home experiences generally don't need anything more than an iPad to do some browsing, Internet, watch a few movies, or create or read a small Pages document. I see it with my parents, a few of my siblings, and some friends of mine. A lot of people are using a MB to do tasks that the iPad can easily manage themselves. But most people who do these simple tasks don't realize what a real computer user needs their computer for... OS X and real applications for creation rather than just consumption.

I think the thing is it's easy for people to confuse the iPad as being just as capable as an MBA if they don't really need a computer as what they're ultimately doing is consumption not computing.

ditosou
May 31, 2010, 12:18 PM
MBA and iPad target the same audience? ahahaha ahahahahha Please stop joking... and try to get informed about the MBA traditional user profile... it has nothing about with iPad users....

gwsat
May 31, 2010, 12:42 PM
Misinformed?

The definition of "computing" widely varies. For some it is facebook, for others it may be word processing and spreadsheets.

"Work" also has varied definitions, since we all do different work.

These generalized statements about what the iPad can and cannot do are worthless, just as generalized statements about the Air would not be accepted by many.

If I said "The MBA cannot be used for any serious video editing." There would be a number of people that would pop in and disagree saying "Well I do it and it works just fine!"

Or if I said "The MBA can't hardly be considered a real computer, it has virtually no expandability options and is underpowered compared to other offerings."

People would disagree, obviously. But neither of these opinions are wrong, they simply come from a different perspective. Just as the negative comments about the iPad come from a different perspective, but I would hardly call you misinformed if you didn't think the fictional comments I made above about the Air were true,

All of the things I used my Air for I can do on the iPad. So the iPad, for me did replace a "real" computer. That decision came down to what I used the Air for. With a Mac Pro, which I am on most of the time. The MBA didn't make sense.

Now, if a person is doing any serious audio, video, photo, etc etc etc. I think they already know an iPad can't replace a computer that would be used for those purposes. But if they have a powerful desktop, or a desktop, the MBA can be replaced by an iPad.

In response to the person you responded to, the MBA and iPad can indeed target the same audience. The audience of individuals that want a light weight device to do their "computing." Which they choose will be dependent upon what needs they have.
As noted, I have an iPad and long ago concluded that it is not a real computer. The problems go far deeper than those I addressed in my earlier post. for example, no Web browser that is available for the iPad remembers information previously entered in dialog boxes on Web pages you have used before. That's a fundamental feature of every OS X and Windows browser that I have used.

Bookmarks are also a hassle. If you want conventional bookmarks, you have to use Safari, which doesn't support tabs that display on the page you are currently viewing. If you want tabs, you have to use Atomic browser, which requires you to click a bookmark icon on the open page and then burrow through several layers before finally reaching the book mark you want.

The browser problem, of course, is on top of the difficulties caused when entering data by the iPad's virtual keyboard, which while better that the iPhone's tiny version, is only a pale imitation of the real thing.

Don't get me wrong, I love my little iPad and appreciate what it can do. Nevertheless, I recognize that it is a small device designed to do small jobs. The things it won't let me do, even when engaged in something as basic as Web browsing, simply can't be gainsaid. The MBA's weaknesses, which we agree exist, are not such as to disqualify it from being a real computer. Were it that I could say the same thing about the iPad

calderone
May 31, 2010, 02:27 PM
MBA and iPad target the same audience? ahahaha ahahahahha Please stop joking... and try to get informed about the MBA traditional user profile... it has nothing about with iPad users....

Instead of writing a response with below grade school level abilities, why don't you explain how they DO NOT target the same audience.

ditosou
May 31, 2010, 04:50 PM
Instead of writing a response with below grade school level abilities, why don't you explain how they DO NOT target the same audience.

There are a lot of MBA users that want a lightweight "full" capable machine... to develop applications, run advanced applications, to compile programs, to write scientif papers, to run virtual machines, to run web programming tools, to use/test 2 or 3 different browsers whenever they want, to also run microsoft based programs if they want (excell, powerpoint, word), to explore/reconfigure unix based applications and associated scripts, to write long documents not using a touch interface, to run some compatible drawing tools, to run simulations from different research areas, use advanced document preparation tools as Latex, etc. etc. etc. basically they want a computer not a toy.

A very simple example, most of the university teachers that I know use a MBA. Ask them or other MBA users if they can do the same in an iPad... no way.

Scottsdale
May 31, 2010, 05:29 PM
There are a lot of MBA users that want a lightweight "full" capable machine... to develop applications, run advanced applications, to compile programs, to write scientif papers, to run virtual machines, to run web programming tools, to use/test 2 or 3 different browsers whenever they want, to also run microsoft based programs if they want (excell, powerpoint, word), to explore/reconfigure unix based applications and associated scripts, to write long documents not using a touch interface, to run some compatible drawing tools, to run simulations from different research areas, use advanced document preparation tools as Latex, etc. etc. etc. basically they want a computer not a toy.

A very simple example, most of the university teachers that I know use a MBA. Ask them or other MBA users if they can do the same in an iPad... no way.

Very accurate and nice post!

pharmx
May 31, 2010, 05:51 PM
Instead of writing a response with below grade school level abilities, why don't you explain how they DO NOT target the same audience.

If the main purpose of your MBA is to do stuff like look at FaceBook and play games like Peggle, then yes, I guess you can say they target the same audience. But then you have to wonder if you really NEEDED an MBA to begin with. You can do those same things with a 13" MBP or even MB. So in that situation, why would you pick the Air over the other available alternatives...and that's not even considering the cheaper PC and/or netbook options.

The MBA is a perfect balance of form and function for niche population. Most of the people who don't like the Air usually fall into one of two categories: 1) People who want (though not necessarily needs) more functionality and 2) People who can't justify the cost

People who like the MBA also tend to fall into two categories: 1) People who find it perfect for their needs (although needing an upgrade) and 2) People who bought it for its aesthetics or as a status symbol....it is this segment of the population that could have an iPad serve as an almost perfect replacement, since they never needed the complete feature set that is unique to the Air.

In my opinion, the MBA's biggest flaw is that the market that ended up owning most of the units, is not the market that it was primarily designed for:

- The portability it offers is not for students looking to throw it in their bag and carry it with them to all their classes -- rather, it's for the person who travels frequently and needs to get work done on the go, whether it's on a meal tray during an airline flight, or at a small table or booth during a coffee break.

- The power that it offers is not for people looking to replace their desktop gaming rigs, work stations, or all-in-one computing solutions -- rather, it's for people who need the functionality of a full OS when away from their primary computer, so that there is no loss in productivity.


I think it's a testament to how flexible the MBA really is, that there are so many owners outside its intended market. There are several people that would be better served with a MacBook, 13 inch MacBook Pro, or even Sony Vaio....yet they chose the MacBook Air for one reason or another.

Whether it's the college student typing notes for class, the teenager living on facebook and twitter, the sales rep preparing a slide show presentation, the game developer coding the next iPad app, the soccer mom searching YouTube to see what her daughter just posted, or the web developer running a local server to test out a site for a client....the MBA delivers. Would the iPad be a perfect substitute or alternative for many of the people and situations just mention? Yes, most definitely....but again, those people were never the intended target population, and never needed the Air to begin with.

The biggest threat to the Air is not the iPad, and it never will be, as long as the iPad is running iPhone OS. In the unlikely situation that the MBA switches to iPhone OS or the iPad switches to Mac OSX, then I could see this being more of a concern. I believe that Apple introducing a thinner/lighter 13" MBP with a BTO option to remove the optical drive and have a smaller battery is something to be more worried about. However, I don't really see them doing this either, as intriguing as that sounds.

Unless Apple really is going to EOL the Air, I see them as continuing to use the MBA as a testing ground. With the recent leak (http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/30/leaked-intel-roadmap-reveals-six-new-notebook-cpus-for-2010-bet/) of the new Intel road map, maybe we'll see some things tested out on a redesigned and/or updated MBA before it makes its way to the MBP lineup. The iPad on the other hand, could never serve this type of purpose...although I could definitely see it being the testing ground for a whole slew of new products from Apple. I can't wait to hear what's announced at WWDC! :D

pharmx
May 31, 2010, 06:04 PM
There are a lot of MBA users that want a lightweight "full" capable machine... to develop applications, run advanced applications, to compile programs, to write scientif papers, to run virtual machines, to run web programming tools, to use/test 2 or 3 different browsers whenever they want, to also run microsoft based programs if they want (excell, powerpoint, word), to explore/reconfigure unix based applications and associated scripts, to write long documents not using a touch interface, to run some compatible drawing tools, to run simulations from different research areas, use advanced document preparation tools as Latex, etc. etc. etc. basically they want a computer not a toy.

A very simple example, most of the university teachers that I know use a MBA. Ask them or other MBA users if they can do the same in an iPad... no way.

damn, I think you just summarized my essay of a post, lol. However, I definitely would not put the iPad in the "toy" category. In the same way that the MBA has a unique feature set with respect to form and function, so does the iPad. Developers have barely scratched the surface of what the iPad can truly do. The true innovations will come once people get past traditional mindsets, and start exploring UI interactions and efficient work flow designed around gestures and multi-touch. It may take some time, but I think we are in for some really cool stuff from the iPad. I think Apple realizes this potential as well, which is why so much focus has shifted in that direction.

gwsat
Jun 1, 2010, 11:04 AM
damn, I think you just summarized my essay of a post, lol. However, I definitely would not put the iPad in the "toy" category. In the same way that the MBA has a unique feature set with respect to form and function, so does the iPad. Developers have barely scratched the surface of what the iPad can truly do. The true innovations will come once people get past traditional mindsets, and start exploring UI interactions and efficient work flow designed around gestures and multi-touch. It may take some time, but I think we are in for some really cool stuff from the iPad. I think Apple realizes this potential as well, which is why so much focus has shifted in that direction.
As I tried to make clear in earlier posts, the iPad lacks the functionality of the MBA, or any other real computer. You make a good point, though. The iPad is certainly not a toy and will gain far more capability as more and more developers release more and more apps for it. For the moment, though, the iPad is no more than an adjunct to a real computer, which is the reason why I am so anxious to see what WWDC may hold for the MBA.

calderone
Jun 1, 2010, 01:06 PM
There are a lot of MBA users that want a lightweight "full" capable machine... to develop applications, run advanced applications, to compile programs, to write scientif papers, to run virtual machines, to run web programming tools, to use/test 2 or 3 different browsers whenever they want, to also run microsoft based programs if they want (excell, powerpoint, word), to explore/reconfigure unix based applications and associated scripts, to write long documents not using a touch interface, to run some compatible drawing tools, to run simulations from different research areas, use advanced document preparation tools as Latex, etc. etc. etc. basically they want a computer not a toy.

A very simple example, most of the university teachers that I know use a MBA. Ask them or other MBA users if they can do the same in an iPad... no way.

Yet again. I never said the iPad can replace an Air for those kinds of tasks.

I merely stated that they can target the same audience, however, the decision comes down to what they use it for.

Even in your examples, the MBA is worthless for most of those tasks. It is woefully underpowered and lacks expandability. And for many, the MBA would be considered a toy and not a computer. You admit this yourself when you put quotes around the word full. The MBA would be my last choice for tasks such as the ones you listed.

Apple has no intended market in mind with any of its products. They just want to sell them. This is evident in their advertising which doesn't really target anyone. The MBA, iPad, MBP, MB, etc are in the category of portable devices and the consumer determines which portable device is best for them.

That said, my iPad does quite a bit of work for me and was successful at replacing my MBA.

As I tried to make clear in earlier posts, the iPad lacks the functionality of the MBA, or any other real computer. You make a good point, though. The iPad is certainly not a toy and will gain far more capability as more and more developers release more and more apps for it. For the moment, though, the iPad is no more than an adjunct to a real computer, which is the reason why I am so anxious to see what WWDC may hold for the MBA.

And the MBA lacks functionality as well. There will always be something better. The MBA is the computer that fills everyone's needs. It all comes down to what you use the device for. For myself, the iPad was able to replace my MBA. That doesn't mean I don't do anything with my computers.

gwsat
Jun 1, 2010, 01:29 PM
And the MBA lacks functionality as well. There will always be something better. The MBA is the computer that fills everyone's needs. It all comes down to what you use the device for. For myself, the iPad was able to replace my MBA. That doesn't mean I don't do anything with my computers.
The current MBA does, indeed, have some critical shortcomings. Most notable among them are its non-expandable 2Gb of RAM and its tendency to overheat and stutter under heavy graphics loads. That said, though, it supports all OS X Web browsers, including my current browser of choice, Google Chrome. It also has network printer support and will accept any of the myriad and excellent email clients that Snow Leopard supports. The iPad can do none of that.

I agree with you that how satisfactory one's experience with an iPad turns out to be is dependent upon what he expects from it. Clearly you are not bothered by the limitations of the browsers it supports or by its email client. Also, although the weaknesses of its browser choices and email client do bother me, I still like my iPad a lot because its limitations, significant though they are, are largely overcome by its small size, light weight, and impressive display. Our only difference is really whether the iPad can be a reasonable replacement for the MBA or any other OS X or Windows computer. We agree, though, that the iPad is pretty sweet.:) In fact, I have an iPad coming that I bought from the Apple Store as a high school graduation gift for my grandson. It is scheduled to arrive on Thursday morning.

Scottsdale
Jun 1, 2010, 01:49 PM
Yet again. I never said the iPad can replace an Air for those kinds of tasks.

I merely stated that they can target the same audience, however, the decision comes down to what they use it for.

Even in your examples, the MBA is worthless for most of those tasks. It is woefully underpowered and lacks expandability. And for many, the MBA would be considered a toy and not a computer. You admit this yourself when you put quotes around the word full. The MBA would be my last choice for tasks such as the ones you listed.

Apple has no intended market in mind with any of its products. They just want to sell them. This is evident in their advertising which doesn't really target anyone. The MBA, iPad, MBP, MB, etc are in the category of portable devices and the consumer determines which portable device is best for them.

That said, my iPad does quite a bit of work for me and was successful at replacing my MBA.



And the MBA lacks functionality as well. There will always be something better. The MBA is the computer that fills everyone's needs. It all comes down to what you use the device for. For myself, the iPad was able to replace my MBA. That doesn't mean I don't do anything with my computers.

Sorry but, IN MY OPINION, your argument is invalid. The original market for the MBA is very different from the iPad. Those who were willing to buy $999 to $1299 dumped original MBAs were the same market as the iPad. However, that isn't the intended market of the MBA, and that market isn't the brand new MBAs Apple sells.

In reality, we all know the MBA is actually targeting people that want to use the MBA as a primary Mac, or those who need a real computing device and use the MBA as their primary NOTEBOOK, and those who want an ultraportable for traveling and will pay for extreme portability but OS X/Windows 7 capable.

joyofduck
Jun 2, 2010, 09:11 AM
My two year old MBA is the slice of my desktop that I get to take with me - And over the last two years that has become a smaller and smaller slice. Dev tools, CS, Office and virtual machines have all increased their resource requirements considerably in that time.

I actually find myself having to use remote desktop access to office machines more and more just to gain the resources I need.

Mostly I need more storage and CPU umph!
Built in 3G data and GPS would be the icing on the cake.

Otherwise it means considering the non-Mac alternatives and perhaps even a return to Wondows.

Oh please no......

calderone
Jun 2, 2010, 10:07 AM
Sorry but, IN MY OPINION, your argument is invalid. The original market for the MBA is very different from the iPad. Those who were willing to buy $999 to $1299 dumped original MBAs were the same market as the iPad. However, that isn't the intended market of the MBA, and that market isn't the brand new MBAs Apple sells.

Arguments are either valid or invalid, and they aren't rendered so based on your opinion. Saying that an argument is invalid "In your opinion" doesn't make any sense.


In reality, we all know the MBA is actually targeting people that want to use the MBA as a primary Mac, or those who need a real computing device and use the MBA as their primary NOTEBOOK, and those who want an ultraportable for traveling and will pay for extreme portability but OS X/Windows 7 capable.

Again, you haven't made a case for what the intended market for the MBA is. You are simply fabricating a target market that suits your position and stating that it is in fact the target market.

This is a conclusion, not an argument. Taking your own ideas of what the MBA is and extrapolating that to the intended market is reaching.

Based on your analysis, anyone who does not use the MBA as their primary Mac is not the intended market. I think it is obvious that this one doesn't work, as the MBA is much more a complimentary device than a MBP.

You used a disjunction after this one, so I assume the following is a separate market.

Based on your analysis, people who need a "real computing" notebook as their primary notebook will choose a Macbook Air over a more capable Macbook Pro. And this is somehow the intended market?

You used a conjunction here, but given the flow I take it that this is also intended to be a separate market.

The only bit you got right is those wanting an ultraportable, since that was Apple's intended market (keynote).

Notice anything familiar about that last one? It is very similar to the intended market I mentioned that the MBA and iPad fit into.

"Those who want an ultraportable device." Which one is chosen is based on what you do. With such a widely defined market, I cannot be wrong. However, it is clear that Apple just wants to sell products, so the intended market game is a fools game.

Why create these narrow markets based on what you think or "feel" about the MBA? Nowadays, picking a computer is about determining what can do the tasks I want for the least amount of money. And then we add constraints, otherwise no one could logically pick a Mac!

So, maybe you want it to be really portable or maybe you don't care. Maybe you want it to be something from Apple. From the items that match your criteria, you determine which one suits your needs best. Apple is creating products that fit the generic criteria people have, and that criteria can lead you to a few products.

The decision is made based on what you do and what will accomplish those tasks the best. In reality, many of your criteria may not be feasible. Demanding fast video editing and an ultraportable may not get you the best machine for the job, but if that portable criteria is the most important you have to settle.

The point is, Apple is not saying: "The MBA is for these people: *list* ."

They are saying "Here is an (ultra)portable notebook from us, running OS X."

It is up to the consumer to determine what they need.

kazmac
Jun 2, 2010, 01:02 PM
Apple was granted a patent win for the Macbook Air (http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/06/apple-wins-designs-for-ipod-nanoclassic-macbook-air-keyboard.html) recently according to Patently Apple.

The price and low RAM are the reasons why I didn't buy an MBA a month ago, but I hope Apple continues onward with the MBA.

coast1ja
Jun 2, 2010, 01:23 PM
Apple was granted a patent win for the Macbook Air (http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/06/apple-wins-designs-for-ipod-nanoclassic-macbook-air-keyboard.html) recently according to Patently Apple.

The price and low RAM are the reasons why I didn't buy an MBA a month ago, but I hope Apple continues onward with the MBA.

hmmm, that MBA drawing appears to have a button on the trackpad. I hope that's not the new MBA.

Scottsdale
Jun 2, 2010, 02:43 PM
Arguments are either valid or invalid, and they aren't rendered so based on your opinion. Saying that an argument is invalid "In your opinion" doesn't make any sense.



Again, you haven't made a case for what the intended market for the MBA is. You are simply fabricating a target market that suits your position and stating that it is in fact the target market.

This is a conclusion, not an argument. Taking your own ideas of what the MBA is and extrapolating that to the intended market is reaching.

Based on your analysis, anyone who does not use the MBA as their primary Mac is not the intended market. I think it is obvious that this one doesn't work, as the MBA is much more a complimentary device than a MBP.

You used a disjunction after this one, so I assume the following is a separate market.

Based on your analysis, people who need a "real computing" notebook as their primary notebook will choose a Macbook Air over a more capable Macbook Pro. And this is somehow the intended market?

You used a conjunction here, but given the flow I take it that this is also intended to be a separate market.

The only bit you got right is those wanting an ultraportable, since that was Apple's intended market (keynote).

Notice anything familiar about that last one? It is very similar to the intended market I mentioned that the MBA and iPad fit into.

"Those who want an ultraportable device." Which one is chosen is based on what you do. With such a widely defined market, I cannot be wrong. However, it is clear that Apple just wants to sell products, so the intended market game is a fools game.

Why create these narrow markets based on what you think or "feel" about the MBA? Nowadays, picking a computer is about determining what can do the tasks I want for the least amount of money. And then we add constraints, otherwise no one could logically pick a Mac!

So, maybe you want it to be really portable or maybe you don't care. Maybe you want it to be something from Apple. From the items that match your criteria, you determine which one suits your needs best. Apple is creating products that fit the generic criteria people have, and that criteria can lead you to a few products.

The decision is made based on what you do and what will accomplish those tasks the best. In reality, many of your criteria may not be feasible. Demanding fast video editing and an ultraportable may not get you the best machine for the job, but if that portable criteria is the most important you have to settle.

The point is, Apple is not saying: "The MBA is for these people: *list* ."

They are saying "Here is an (ultra)portable notebook from us, running OS X."

It is up to the consumer to determine what they need.

Um, I am not even going to respond. Best wishes with your beliefs.

Jayomat
Jun 2, 2010, 03:46 PM
Um, I am not even going to respond. Best wishes with your beliefs.

Although you already responded, your "answer" seems pretty childish, as he made some valid points which you decided just to ignore,... whatever the reason is...

and while I don't think the iPad and the MBA are aimed at the same market, simply because they both run completely different apps (yes, there is 'iWork',X and Y for iPad, but where is Eclipse, TexShop and Acrobat for the iPad?), at least his last the lines are very true..

Scottsdale
Jun 2, 2010, 04:27 PM
Although you already responded, your "answer" seems pretty childish, as he made some valid points which you decided just to ignore,... whatever the reason is...

and while I don't think the iPad and the MBA are aimed at the same market, simply because they both run completely different apps (yes, there is 'iWork',X and Y for iPad, but where is Eclipse, TexShop and Acrobat for the iPad?), at least his last the lines are very true..

I decided to ignore because of the intended insults and personal attacks in multiple posts and threads. It's certainly not worth my time to waste my life on people who don't respect people. From now on when people make these remarks, or call me OR OTHERS names on these forums, I will just stop responding. There has to be a better way to communicate without insulting people; I intend to make this my new policy on these forums. People can debate people without insulting them or calling them names. It has happened several times with calderone, and I am done with that poster.

I am here to have fun and debate topics. I am not here to make fun of people, nor call them names, nor try to insult them, nor generally act in a negative manner. I am all about debating without personal attacks or even minor insults that add up to something more. It is just unfortunate that some don't enjoy debate and would prefer to insult people to "win" arguments than generally debate with others.

edit:
Just to clarify... I am taking this position based not just on anything done towards me but from the users' who do attempt to insult, attack, or otherwise criticize any forum member in these threads.

In these forums, it is completely up to the forum members to determine what we find acceptable practice. I have received warnings lately for multiple posts, and "irrelevant" posts; I add more info and arguments to my post than most here, and I get called out for something that isn't even in any way an attack against another member. I find it disgusting as there are people getting away with calling people terrible names, blatantly insulting members, and otherwise making personal attacks instead of "debating positions." We should all be here to have fun and debate in good spirits without personally attacking others for their viewpoints, the way they make their arguments, or their English, grammar, word usage, and etc. It's not fun when this is the highlight of these posts.

EDIT TWO -

One last thing I failed to point out. Jayomat called me "childish" for not wanting to add to the problems here. So we're all "childish" if we wish to condone others that make personal insults and even go so far as to publicly criticize fellow members by stating they have "below grade school level abilities."

pharmx
Jun 2, 2010, 04:47 PM
Although you already responded, your "answer" seems pretty childish, as he made some valid points which you decided just to ignore,... whatever the reason is...

and while I don't think the iPad and the MBA are aimed at the same market, simply because they both run completely different apps (yes, there is 'iWork',X and Y for iPad, but where is Eclipse, TexShop and Acrobat for the iPad?), at least his last the lines are very true..


Not to put words into Scottsdale's mouth, but he probably didn't respond because calderone's post made no sense. Exactly which points do you think were valid? His last 3 lines are precisely the reason why the post/viewpoint is invalid, or at best confusing:

The point is, Apple is not saying: "The MBA is for these people: *list* ."

They are saying "Here is an (ultra)portable notebook from us, running OS X."

It is up to the consumer to determine what they need.

Regarding line 1: Of course Apple is not saying "The MBA is for these people". That would be silly, and is not what is implied when referring to a product's "intended market". Products are designed with a certain population in mind, and it is that group that is deemed the intended market. If people outside that niche population purchase the product, that can only be a good thing since it increases sales. However, some things that would need to be evaluated are: the original assessment of the target populations size (and the implications it has on ROI), the reason why people outside the target population are considering it an option (is there an unmet need that is not being catered to by the other product lines), and whether the product needs to be repositioned in the market .

Regarding line 2: That is exactly the point...there is no other ultra-portable that runs Mac OSX. The 13" MBP is not ultra-portable, and the iPad runs iPhone OS.

Regarding line 3: Well, I don't really refute this point, but I do think that often times consumers make decisions based on what they want instead of what they need. Nothing really wrong with that either, but computer tech is confusing enough for people familiar with it, never mind the average consumer.

gwsat
Jun 2, 2010, 04:55 PM
Scottsdale -- For what it's worth, I agreed with your short response for which another poster criticized you. The post to which you responded in shorthand form made clear, to me at least, that the poster was rejecting your analysis out of hand and was doing it in a way that seemed so defensive, he wasn't going to hear what you said even if you had gone on. it's just better to bow out as gracefully as you can when another poster seems to have made an issue an affair of the heart.

ermir4444
Jun 2, 2010, 05:05 PM
Ok people i think we should stop the fighting between the members and use the efforts to do some more speculation about the possibility of the MBA @ WWDC.
In my opinion there are 2 scenarios:

1 - Major update with possible case redesign. If this happens there will be one breakthrough feature that will set the MBA appart from the MBP and make it worth use that precious WWDC time.

2 - No update at all. Apple will not introduca a minor update @ WWDC and I am almost sure about this for the simple reason that they could have done that together with the MBP in April. They were upgraded together @ 2009 WWDC and they should have been upgraded together in April. This makes me think that it will either be BOOM MBA or nothing.

pharmx
Jun 2, 2010, 05:48 PM
Ok people i think we should stop the fighting between the members and use the efforts to do some more speculation about the possibility of the MBA @ WWDC.
In my opinion there are 2 scenarios:

1 - Major update with possible case redesign. If this happens there will be one breakthrough feature that will set the MBA appart from the MBP and make it worth use that precious WWDC time.

2 - No update at all. Apple will not introduca a minor update @ WWDC and I am almost sure about this for the simple reason that they could have done that together with the MBP in April. They were upgraded together @ 2009 WWDC and they should have been upgraded together in April. This makes me think that it will either be BOOM MBA or nothing.

+1 MBA forum should be for owners to discuss our likes/dislikes, hopes, and dreams for its evolution...as well as potential buyers looking for first hand experience and information on its advantages and disadvantages. People who think the iPad or MBP makes the MBA useless should express that in their respective (and appropriate) forums....bashing the MBA in an MBA forum (where people people obviously like the MBA) is childish at best. This is not aimed at anyone in particular by the way, I'm just voicing my opinion.

Back on topic (kinda), I think option 1 would be great...especially with cloud computing around the horizon. A device dubbed the "Air" fits in nice with the "cloud" theme. :D

thinkdesign
Jun 2, 2010, 10:06 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

The 'Air' reminds me of certain car designs that halfway had it together (+ in an innovative way), and halfway did not. The only examples of like that, that I know of, are cars that went extinct. The 1955-60's/+ Citroen DS, the early 50's? The Frazer/Kaiser sedan (with tailgate looking like a normal trunk lid), and the last late 60's/early 70's batch of Triumphs, Austin Healys and the 3rd one in that group, I'm blanking out on. There has to be a "maintainance of effort" to keep an innovative product moving forward to keep it alive. ----- But, Jobs DID mention the Air, in passing, at the "D" event. ----- I just wanted to buy a computer. I didn't sign up for the equivalent of Kremlinology!

queshy
Jun 2, 2010, 10:06 PM
EOL? Are you people nuts? The MBA has been extremely successful. It'll be updated soon, just be patient. Apple is always slow with updates....look at the 30" cinema display...hah.

Scottsdale
Jun 2, 2010, 10:12 PM
Ok people i think we should stop the fighting between the members and use the efforts to do some more speculation about the possibility of the MBA @ WWDC.
In my opinion there are 2 scenarios:

1 - Major update with possible case redesign. If this happens there will be one breakthrough feature that will set the MBA appart from the MBP and make it worth use that precious WWDC time.

2 - No update at all. Apple will not introduca a minor update @ WWDC and I am almost sure about this for the simple reason that they could have done that together with the MBP in April. They were upgraded together @ 2009 WWDC and they should have been upgraded together in April. This makes me think that it will either be BOOM MBA or nothing.

I feel like there are far more than two possibilities at WWDC.

I still believe it's possible to get an MBA update with C2D and Nvidia 320m that is a quiet update and includes larger SSD option and 4 GB RAM.

It completely made sense for Apple to update 13" MBP first. Then, it made even more sense to update the MB as the "Back to School" promo started this week.

It would not be impossible that the MBA was just last of the Mac notebooks to get the same update as soon as the inventories of 13" MBP and MB could meet demand. Then the MBA would go to production. A C2D MBA with Nvidia 320m isn't going to warrant an update at WWDC and it still makes the most sense to me. Apple is all about this MacFive strategy. I also see the Mac mini and 21.5" iMac getting updates with the Nvidia 320m strategy. Surely Apple will get the MBA out of the way first or all of these together maybe as a quick announcement at WWDC or even a quiet update the week after WWDC.

Now there's also the possibility of Apple introducing an MBA that is exactly the same case and C2D and Nvidia 320m at WWDC but they're adding one new service offering with it. This would happen if Apple has something else to introduce added to it. I still believe the Verizon partnership has to start somewhere and a 3G/4G LTE Verizon card could find its way into the MBA first to "test" the waters so to speak. It's also possible Apple partners again with AT&T with its new $25 2 GB service without contracts on the MBAs with a simple 3G card added to the MBA.

Then there's also the possibilities that were previously mentioned by you as #1 and #2.

I feel that there's a lot of hope here. I really think it makes sense to put the Nvidia 320m, along with 4 GB RAM, and larger SSD in the MBA now. All of us MBA buyers would absolutely jump for an MBA that just had more RAM and SSD. We mostly feel the Nvidia 320m is amazing, and C2D does the job just fine.

There's also the idea you had (#1) of a major update to the MBA at WWDC. It makes a lot of sense to prove that Apple still gives a damn about the future of the Macs. The MBA is the most portable/mobile Mac that runs OS X. We all know it's a different market than the iPad anyways (whether all agree with us or not is unimportant). Apple could amaze us with a Core i7 ULV overclocked with a discrete option, or a LV Core i7 with sole use of Intel's GMA (probably more likely than discrete). A major update to the MBA's case (like carbon fiber) might make sense too, as Apple can see what the reaction is to lighter weight Mac notebooks via eliminating aluminum.

Apple could also do something really innovative that none of us can calculate. I feel like an LCD/iPhone like trackpad integrated with the Macs makes a lot of sense. They could also use the MBA to introduce a new cooling technology as their patents describe. They might even be able to fit LV and discrete chips in the MBA if they could cool them. They might have a super battery, or they could be a touchscreen display (although I completely discount that personally, but some insist). I even think there's the possibility of an OLED or 3D display in the MBA. Apple could leverage its LG partnership and introducing a 13" display is a lot cheaper when mass developed than 15" and 17" displays required in MBPs. Maybe it's just an IPS display in the MBA first.

Finally, it all comes down to the MBA being an ultraportable AND a LUXURY Mac. Apple can do just about anything and test the strategy with the MBA. None of us knows whether it would be ready by WWDC or not. There is something to all the MBA rumors, but we don't know what it is. Could be minor update day of WWDC along with Mac mini and 21.5" iMac. Apple could do that and introduce all as a quick note after introducing a new Mac Pro.

The important thing is Apple needs to be incredibly innovative with at least one Mac update at WWDC. It could be the Mac Pro. But no matter what, I have to believe something is coming. Most of us realize Apple is about mobility and it's going to leverage its OS X position along with iPhone OS products. There is no reason not to have an incredible MBA that competes along with ultraportables and luxury computers just as the v 2,1 MBA was innovative and future tech when introduced in October 2008. Apple knows how to make a killer ultraportable. And it could provide just about anything it wants because it will just raise the price of the MBA to offset the tech costs.

We have five days... actually 4.5 days remaining until WWDC. I just hope we're all celebrating and crying tears of shear joy after the announcements. As we are all enduring the long wait for an incredible new MBA... or even just a simple update with 4 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, and Nvidia 320m. Believe me, they will be tears of joy whether it's a big update with discrete GPU and two RAM slots or 4 GB RAM and an Nvidia 320m. We know we're fans here... no criticizing our wishes for WWDC.

pharmx
Jun 2, 2010, 11:35 PM
Apple was granted a patent win for the Macbook Air (http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/06/apple-wins-designs-for-ipod-nanoclassic-macbook-air-keyboard.html) recently according to Patently Apple.

The price and low RAM are the reasons why I didn't buy an MBA a month ago, but I hope Apple continues onward with the MBA.

Interesting...anyone care to speculate on the purpose of a black bottom for the MBA? It's listed in one of the earlier entries from the site linked above.

ChemGolf
Jun 3, 2010, 01:31 AM
I still believe it's possible to get an MBA update with C2D and Nvidia 320m that is a quiet update and includes larger SSD option and 4 GB RAM.

This is also my guess. Plus a 3G option.

gwsat
Jun 3, 2010, 08:30 AM
I feel like there are far more than two possibilities at WWDC.

I still believe it's possible to get an MBA update with C2D and Nvidia 320m that is a quiet update and includes larger SSD option and 4 GB RAM.

. . .

Then there's also the possibilities that were previously mentioned by you as #1 and #2 [to wit: either there will be a major redesign or no update at all].
If Apple decides to offer an updated MBA with the C2D chip, integrated NVIDIA 320m GPU, and a 256Gb SSD I'll probably swallow my disappointment and buy one anyway. But if Apple sticks with the 128Gb SSD I certainly won't be buying an updated MBA, even if it does offer an improved CPU and GPU. Obviously, if Apple does nothing in the near future, which is certainly a viable possibility, I'll have to continue to wait anyway.

thinkdesign
Jun 3, 2010, 04:41 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

Uh oh. Last time Apple mini-bumped the 'Air', was there a reported disruption in supplies in the 5-7 days beforehand? (Because today the report of supply delays is only about one model, the Mini.)

tim100
Jun 3, 2010, 08:00 PM
http://gizmodo.com/5553902/wwdc-here-comes-the-new-iphone-but-what-else

pharmx
Jun 3, 2010, 09:36 PM
Interesting...anyone care to speculate on the purpose of a black bottom for the MBA? It's listed in one of the earlier entries from the site linked above.

This is also my guess. Plus a 3G option.

Hmm, I suppose the black bottom could be similar to the black strip on the 3G iPad (and original iPhone) to improve signal strength for a 3G or equivalent option. Purely speculation here, but it would have to be something significant to taint the elegant design of the Air. If they go all black, I certainly hope it won't have a cheap plastic look and feel.

pruhawk
Jun 3, 2010, 10:32 PM
IMHO the MBA will not receive a legitmate upgrade until next year (April) at the earliest. That would allow Apple to bring it back to cutting edge and improve the battery, memory and speed for about the same price.

This year the best that can be hoped for, if at all, is double the memory and a 13" MBP like chip set minor update.

Scottsdale
Jun 3, 2010, 11:07 PM
http://gizmodo.com/5553902/wwdc-here-comes-the-new-iphone-but-what-else

But their reasoning is PROBABLY false. Therefore, I have to assume that their numbers are way off.

With the rumors I have heard/read, I would GUESSTIMATE:

15% chance of MBA with Core CPU at WWDC (if core CPU - 85% sole use of Intel GMA HD/15% discrete GPU).
25% chance of, AT WWDC, C2D/Nvidia 320m, 4 GB RAM, 192/256 GB SSD and something new like a Verizon 3G/4G card.
50% chance of, NOT AT WWDC, a C2D/Nvidia 320m, 4 GB RAM, 192/256 GB SSD, and nothing else.
10% chance of NO UPDATE until Late 2010 or Early 2011.


I really think these numbers are probably about right based on Apple's update record in the past. Apple has updated the MBA twice before. One of the updates was incredible, so we know they're capable. Apple usually introduces something new at WWDC so it's possible it's a new incredible MBA. We also have seen many rumors of a Verizon relationship, and it probably comes with something else first, like a 3G/4G wireless card in a Mac or maybe a Verizon iPad. We also know it's probable the MBA will get the same C2D and Nvidia 320m that the other MacFive will get; since the 13" MBP and MB got the C2D and Nvidia 320m updates, this is by far most likely for the MBA. There is only a small chance that Apple will not update the MBA at all, as we can see from the past, just as with other Macs, that Apple will update very soon and will not leave the MBA for 18 months without an update.

Anyone else care to GUESSTIMATE?

jns2001
Jun 4, 2010, 07:14 AM
Here's what I think:

No disruption in inventories on MBA
No way to have 256 GB on the 1.8" SSD
If they get a new case (form factor) to the MBA, they can cram a larger disk, more memory and avoid the hassle of the first MBA's with overheating issues. However, that's not possible with aluminum, it would move the weight way, way up for an Ultraportable.

Apple needs to ditch this aluminum sheesh. I recently got a MB Pro 13" from the company that I work for, and for those that says that's only 1.5 pounds heavier, believe me, it makes a world of a difference.

Also this MBpro has a hard disk and not a SSD, and I am friggin' spoiled with my baby MBA and I hate that machine. It has a higher end processor and 4 GB of memory, and that still means Jack in terms of performance.

So, my conclusion is, the MBA will not get an upgrade/update, and when it does, it will have to have another material for the case in order to keep up with the weight. In as much as I love the MBA and would like to see an update, I just don't think it is gonna happen anytime soon.

Just my 0.02 cents.
:rolleyes:

Scottsdale
Jun 4, 2010, 07:56 AM
Here's what I think:

No disruption in inventories on MBA
No way to have 256 GB on the 1.8" SSD
If they get a new case (form factor) to the MBA, they can cram a larger disk, more memory and avoid the hassle of the first MBA's with overheating issues. However, that's not possible with aluminum, it would move the weight way, way up for an Ultraportable.

Apple needs to ditch this aluminum sheesh. I recently got a MB Pro 13" from the company that I work for, and for those that says that's only 1.5 pounds heavier, believe me, it makes a world of a difference.

Also this MBpro has a hard disk and not a SSD, and I am friggin' spoiled with my baby MBA and I hate that machine. It has a higher end processor and 4 GB of memory, and that still means Jack in terms of performance.

So, my conclusion is, the MBA will not get an upgrade/update, and when it does, it will have to have another material for the case in order to keep up with the weight. In as much as I love the MBA and would like to see an update, I just don't think it is gonna happen anytime soon.

Just my 0.02 cents.
:rolleyes:

Well, first you're wrong about the 1.8" SSD. The technology has been there. There will even be a third-party supplier for a 1.8" SSD that works in the v 2,1 MBAs in three or four months. Right now, just because no company is buying them as it's an expensive add to an ultraportable, there are several available for OEM computer manufacturers.

At the same time, I could also see Apple using a 192 GB SSD in the high-end MBA. It will be larger than the current. What I could be really happy with is the Intel 160 GB 1.8" SSD that was announced a month or so ago. The technology is there, so Apple can include up to a 256 GB SSD. The "problem" is more likely the cost, but with mass production the cost approaches the same as the 2.5" SSDs. I can see Apple using 192 GB and offering a larger BTO option. Or it could even offer 128 GB SSD standard with BTO option for larger SSD. That even makes more sense to keep the base prices as low as possible, yet keep the storage available for those who need the larger SSD. The thing is this is the second most reported "problem" or deficiency with the MBA. Therefore, it would seem Apple will do something about it.

We have had MBA updates twice before with less rumors than this time, and "disruption" of inventories seems to be more prevalent in products that are big sellers. Let's face it, Apple isn't exactly selling millions of the MBAs right now. They are terribly overpriced and outdated. The reports of an update, especially from Asia, actually seem that the MBA will truly be updated.

It is possible that Apple will go with carbon fiber in the Macs at some point. Right now it's about industrial design with the Macs. IF they change the case of the MBA, they could easily go that route. I even wonder about this material they're using in the new iPhones. It's apparently something cross between carbon fiber and ceramic material. I am interested in learning more about it, as it might be the future of more than just the iPhone. I do think a redesign of the MBA could allow Apple to do a lot more with the MBA. I feel like Apple could easily redesign the MBA and make it 1/2" thick throughout and have more space than in the current MBA. More space and less waste in a design that looks similar to the iPad from the side view.

In the end, you could be correct and it could wait until January 2011 for the update. There is no "upgrade" path for the Core 2 Duo SL9600 in the Core 2 Duo chips. In order to keep Core 2 Duo CPUs in the MBA, Apple could have Intel overclock a C2D to make it an SL9700 CPU running at up to 2.26 or maybe 2.33 GHz? I would think those are possibilities. In addition, since Apple is reducing the TDP using the Nvidia 320m, it could de-throttle the SL9x00 CPUs and advertise them as 30% faster without actually changing the CPUs. It would be a difficult sell from a marketing standpoint.

I feel that a lot of would be MBA buyers are waiting for just a bump to 4 GB RAM and a larger SSD and/or HDD in the MBA. There is no reason for Apple not to provide an update to a C2D/Nvidia 320m, with 4 GB RAM and larger SSD right now with the exact same case. This would be a very low cost path to follow the MacFive and update the MBA while boosting sales. There is also the other train of thought that Apple uses the MBA to showcase ultra-mobility running its longtime advantageous OS X. Since Apple is a self-proclaimed "mobility company" why shouldn't we expect updates to its most mobile Mac that runs OS X. Apple could use WWDC to provide the update we have all been waiting for since October 2008. Apple could again blow away the competitors in the ultraportable market.

I am sticking with only a 10% chance that there is no update to the MBA until Early 2011 or Late 2010. Apple can choose a simple update path that follows the MacFive and might boost sales to levels that the MBA has never seen. Or Apple can choose to WOW everyone as it did when it introduced the MBA in October 2008. There is a lot of hope, and the rumors really make it seem like it's very likely that Apple is working on a new MBA.

gwsat
Jun 4, 2010, 10:04 AM
What I could be really happy with is the Intel 160 GB 1.8" SSD that was announced a month or so ago.
If Apple updated the MBA with the C2D chip, integrated INVIDIA 320m GPU, 4Gb of RAM, and a 160Gb SSD, I would be all over it. My now nearly two and a half year old 17 inch Santa Rosa MBP has only a 160Gb drive and it has been plenty. That's because I don't store large media files on a computer, ever. They are all stored either on network drives or a portable USB drive. That's why, even after all this time, my 160Gb drive still has a little over 66Gb free.

jns2001
Jun 4, 2010, 10:42 AM
[QUOTE=Scottsdale;10037761]Well, first you're wrong about the 1.8" SSD. The technology has been there. There will even be a third-party supplier for a 1.8" SSD that works in the v 2,1 MBAs in three or four months. Right now, just because no company is buying them as it's an expensive add to an ultraportable, there are several available for OEM computer manufacturers.

You are going to have to pardon my ignorance, but do you care to share where have you seen 1.8" SSD's with a larger capacity than 160 GB? I am particularly interested on the 256 GB, which would make a difference in capacity.

On the disruption of inventory, I am a believer that we would have heard something about it, but this is very subjective, so let's park lot that discussion.

Also, as a question, is it possible to have physical space for a 4 GB of RAM?

I think your processors combos would either overheat the temperature sensitive MBA's or it would de-throttle all the time making it even worse than it is right now.

My humble opinion is that it won't be any MBA announcement on Monday, 0% chances, not even the smallest.

soph
Jun 4, 2010, 12:42 PM
* 25% chance of, AT WWDC, C2D/Nvidia 320m, 4 GB RAM, 192/256 GB SSD and something new like a Verizon 3G/4G card.


I for one would certainly love to see that one!

wirelessmacuser
Jun 4, 2010, 01:05 PM
Windows has caught up with OS X. Apple has stopped working on OS X 10.7. What the hell is Apple thinking? I mean not updating its Macs on a timely schedule and then stopping development of the only other reason people buy Macs, OS X. I buy Macs primarily because of the design and OS X. However, OS X is becoming less and less of a real reason in the deal. If competitors can compete with Mac designs, there is no reason to move to the Mac or stay with Apple's Macs. Apple really needs to deliver a revolutionary OS X 10.7... stopping development on it for iPhone OS 4 is a terrible mistake in my opinion. This strategy could truly come back to haunt Apple.
Great points, I concur. The issue which concerns me the most is the neglect of 10.7. I ask myself, is this an indication of Apple making a silent unpublished decision to abandon the PC sooner rather than later? Was his recent interview with Walt Mossberg an indicator?

Apple has just identified itself as a "Mobility Company," and you think it's going to EOL the most MOBILE device that runs OS X? I wouldn't wage much on what Apple does with the MBA, but I would wage a pretty penny that the MBA doesn't get EOL'd. That makes zero sense.
I agree when I apply common sense, however that thinking does not always prevail. I can see the possibility of Apple further morphing itself into an "Entertainment Company, instead of a "Mobility Company".

Apple has to be either taking the Air to the next amazing level with their own chips, or maybe it is EOL for the air as we go the way of the ipad, I'm beginning to fear the later :(
This is my concern as well. The wild success of the somewhat crippled iPad has me concerned. It's a testimony to the power of Apples marketing, Jobs charisma as the Ringmaster, and the general publics love affair with all things "Shiny and Cool".

Only time will tell.

Cheers...

Jayomat
Jun 4, 2010, 01:26 PM
I decided to ignore because of the intended insults and personal attacks in multiple posts and threads. It's certainly not worth my time to waste my life on people who don't respect people. From now on when people make these remarks, or call me OR OTHERS names on these forums, I will just stop responding. There has to be a better way to communicate without insulting people; I intend to make this my new policy on these forums. People can debate people without insulting them or calling them names. It has happened several times with calderone, and I am done with that poster.

I completely understand and agree with your point/position and would do the same, but if you say:"[...] I won't respond [...]" in a response, you're not sticking to your point. Just ignore the post(s), and don't waste time on him/them.

And this is why I used the word childish:
If you want to play the "I-will-have-the-last-word-game" with persons you 'obviously' want to ignore, ok... so be it.

One last thing I failed to point out. Jayomat called me "childish" for not wanting to add to the problems here. So we're all "childish" if we wish to condone others that make personal insults and even go so far as to publicly criticize fellow members by stating they have "below grade school level abilities."[/B]

I didn't called YOU, as a person/character, childish, I called your behavior/response childish. And in fact, you didn't condone his response, as you even quoted him.

stoconnell
Jun 4, 2010, 02:01 PM
Also, as a question, is it possible to have physical space for a 4 GB of RAM?



Memory consists of 16x1Gb (0.125 GB) chips soldered on the motherboard (8 per side). It would just be a matter of moving to 2Gb (0.25 GB) chips which are most likely the same size.

coast1ja
Jun 4, 2010, 02:53 PM
You are going to have to pardon my ignorance, but do you care to share where have you seen 1.8" SSD's with a larger capacity than 160 GB? I am particularly interested on the 256 GB, which would make a difference in capacity.

http://ssd.toshiba.com/SSD-product-guide.html


Toshiba, a long-time Apple drive supplier currently makes a 1.8" 256gb SSD that would be perfect for the next MBA. I think even the smaller companies like Kingspec have announced similar offerings. SandForce has even announced a 512gb 1.8" microSATA SSD to be released in Q4 of this year.

Yes, the technology is available.

Scottsdale
Jun 4, 2010, 03:58 PM
http://ssd.toshiba.com/SSD-product-guide.html


Toshiba, a long-time Apple drive supplier currently makes a 1.8" 256gb SSD that would be perfect for the next MBA. I think even the smaller companies like Kingspec have announced similar offerings. SandForce has even announced a 512gb 1.8" microSATA SSD to be released in Q4 of this year.

Yes, the technology is available.

To add to Coast1ja's post...

The 1.8" 256 GB SSDs have been available for OEM purchase since 4Q 2009. Just because Apple and other PC builders aren't using them doesn't mean the tech isn't available. It is costly to add these to a computer, so it's going to be a luxury brand computer that uses them. What does Dell use in its Adamo line? Those 256 GB SSDs might be 1.8"? Most ultrathin laptops are lower priced and they wouldn't include 256 GB SSDs.

I also am aware that there will be third-party 256 GB SSDs available for the v 2,1 MBAs in maybe as few as three or four months. I would believe that Runcore might also be pursuing something too? That is a guess though, as I have no knowledge of Runcore's intentions. Someone could contact Matt at Runcore and see if they're working on one? Anyways, MBA owners will probably have multiple choices in a few months if they want 256 GB SSDs.

Everyone also needs to understand that a 256 GB SSD will cost as much as the 128 GB SSD cost Apple when it introduced it in October 2008. That means that for Apple to use a 256 GB SSD, Apple is going to have to jack the price up for the MBA. I don't think a 256 GB SSD will be found in an MBA for less than $2k. Apple reduced the price of the SSD MBA in June 2009 by $700, and I think people need to be ready to pay more again if they want a luxury MBA. Apple certainly will want to change strategy back to a higher price point luxury Mac with the next MBA. It just doesn't make sense to go lower cost and compete with the MB and iPad. The price will define the market, and Apple will definitely raise the price if they do anything to the MBA. Since Apple has the iPad for low cost secondary/netbook like entertainment web browsing, Apple will reposition the MBA as a luxury Mac.

jns2001
Jun 4, 2010, 05:15 PM
To add to Coast1ja's post...

The 1.8" 256 GB SSDs have been available for OEM purchase since 4Q 2009. Just because Apple and other PC builders aren't using them doesn't mean the tech isn't available. It is costly to add these to a computer, so it's going to be a luxury brand computer that uses them. What does Dell use in its Adamo line? Those 256 GB SSDs might be 1.8"? Most ultrathin laptops are lower priced and they wouldn't include 256 GB SSDs.

I also am aware that there will be third-party 256 GB SSDs available for the v 2,1 MBAs in maybe as few as three or four months. I would believe that Runcore might also be pursuing something too? That is a guess though, as I have no knowledge of Runcore's intentions. Someone could contact Matt at Runcore and see if they're working on one? Anyways, MBA owners will probably have multiple choices in a few months if they want 256 GB SSDs.

Everyone also needs to understand that a 256 GB SSD will cost as much as the 128 GB SSD cost Apple when it introduced it in October 2008. That means that for Apple to use a 256 GB SSD, Apple is going to have to jack the price up for the MBA. I don't think a 256 GB SSD will be found in an MBA for less than $2k. Apple reduced the price of the SSD MBA in June 2009 by $700, and I think people need to be ready to pay more again if they want a luxury MBA. Apple certainly will want to change strategy back to a higher price point luxury Mac with the next MBA. It just doesn't make sense to go lower cost and compete with the MB and iPad. The price will define the market, and Apple will definitely raise the price if they do anything to the MBA. Since Apple has the iPad for low cost secondary/netbook like entertainment web browsing, Apple will reposition the MBA as a luxury Mac.

IF they do upgrade to 256 GB and they have 4 GB of RAM, processor speed with a hair of more performance, I think that I would purchase the SSD and continue with mine.

I have made the extra effort to move to Quicken Essentials (better than nothing), and the only thing that I am not able to run is the MS HD camera, which makes the MBA camera feel like a POS, and the home security system that have MS Windows only software. The Polar heart monitor is already readying itself to OSX.

If I would know that I can copy bit by bit my company's HD to a new SSD (MB Pro), I would buy a 256 2.5" and use it, I think the user experience would be very different. I am really annoyed by its performance.

jns2001
Jun 7, 2010, 03:00 PM
To complement things my MBA does not want to play sounds anymore. Here we go for two weeks without it. And now when does the new MBA arrives?

soph
Jun 8, 2010, 01:41 AM
With the rumors I have heard/read, I would GUESSTIMATE:

15% chance of MBA with Core CPU at WWDC (if core CPU - 85% sole use of Intel GMA HD/15% discrete GPU).
25% chance of, AT WWDC, C2D/Nvidia 320m, 4 GB RAM, 192/256 GB SSD and something new like a Verizon 3G/4G card.
50% chance of, NOT AT WWDC, a C2D/Nvidia 320m, 4 GB RAM, 192/256 GB SSD, and nothing else.
10% chance of NO UPDATE until Late 2010 or Early 2011.



We can't say we hadn't been warned. :(
So, here's to Scottsdale's 50% guesstimate, and that one within two weeks, if you please :)

tim100
Jun 9, 2010, 05:16 AM
looks like scottdale predictions were wrong. no updated air yet. i think the ipad will replace the air

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20007139-248.html?tag=TOCmoreStories.0

see #11

gwsat
Jun 9, 2010, 08:50 AM
looks like scottdale predictions were wrong. no updated air yet. i think the ipad will replace the air

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-20007139-248.html?tag=TOCmoreStories.0

see #11
Although I think there is a good chance that the MBA won't be updated this year, I continue to be skeptical about the proposition that Apple will discontinue it. Recall, the same kind of rumors were going around about the Mac mini, until Apple updated it. Then the rumors died. Anyway, this is all crystal ball territory, so no one really knows.

soph
Jun 9, 2010, 09:15 AM
looks like scottdale predictions were wrong. no updated air yet.

My math tells me Scottsdale offered a 60% chance MBA would not be updated at WWDC. That's not really "wrong".