PDA

View Full Version : No New Air at WWDC




sekoitus
Jun 7, 2010, 01:57 PM
Maybe sometime in the future...



jcoop
Jun 7, 2010, 02:00 PM
Wait a week. Two possibly. They clearly decided to focus this event on the iPhone and iOS. I don't think the word "Mac" was uttered, was it? And yet there clearly are Mac hardware updates coming.

entatlrg
Jun 7, 2010, 02:00 PM
Any chance it could be announced sometime this week?

Barbie
Jun 7, 2010, 02:01 PM
:confused: apple is primarily a 'notebook' computer company, but apple has left the macbook air for over a year now with no sign of updates soon due to releases of iOS4 and iPhone 4

insanely crap

dudulang
Jun 7, 2010, 02:02 PM
The new products are only presented at keynote today? No more new updates in the next days of WWDC ?

gri
Jun 7, 2010, 02:03 PM
Wait a week. Two possibly. They clearly decided to focus this event on the iPhone and iOS. I don't think the word "Mac" was uttered, was it? And yet there clearly are Mac hardware updates coming.

"Clearly"? Where do you have that information from? MP overdue, no indication. MBA overdue, no indication. Cinema display? Mini?

AAPL stock down 4% after keynote. But the new phone IS nice...

asoksevil
Jun 7, 2010, 02:04 PM
Maybe Steve didn't mention that update on this keynote, but we can expect a discrete update next weeks.

tsubikiddo
Jun 7, 2010, 02:06 PM
Not surprised, the iPhone 4 has the spotlight
and looking at the hardware refresh on the 13" MBP entry model,
it doesn't surprise me that the MBA went unmentioned

icymountain
Jun 7, 2010, 02:06 PM
:confused: apple is primarily a 'notebook' computer company,

If you consider the computer part of the compagny, yes.
Now, if you consider the compagny as a whole, we should not really care about what it is, rather we should think in terms of what it wants to become.
- a mobile phone/tablet manufacturing compagny ?
- a media/software/music/book distribution compagny ?
- an advertisement compagny ?
All in all, I am not so convinced the MBA matters much for Apple now.

wildjohn999
Jun 7, 2010, 02:07 PM
I guess I'm buying a new 27" iMac i7 to accompany this year old MBA. :rolleyes:

entatlrg
Jun 7, 2010, 02:09 PM
If you consider the computer part of the compagny, yes.
Now, if you consider the compagny as a whole, we should not really care about what it is, rather we should think in terms of what it wants to become.
- a mobile phone/tablet manufacturing compagny ?
- a media/software/music/book distribution compagny ?
- an advertisement compagny ?
All in all, I am not so convinced the MBA matters much for Apple now.

Agreed, it's time to move on from the 'MBA days' for me as well. Been wishing and waiting long enough....

I'll happily get by with my 13" MBP and my iPad for my mobile tools - could be worse :)

ibinco
Jun 7, 2010, 02:23 PM
Bummed out.. Now what...Stevie you let me down brother!

jcoop
Jun 7, 2010, 02:26 PM
"Clearly"? Where do you have that information from? MP overdue, no indication. MBA overdue, no indication. Cinema display? Mini?


I think the fact that the word "Mac" never escaped Jobs's lips (at least from the reports I've seen) pretty clearly suggests a conscious decision (as opposed to "oops, we forgot") to focus the keynote exclusively on the iPhone and iOS. Doesn't mean that other stuff isn't coming, and indeed it could be coming soon. Back in the MWSF and MWNY days, there were plenty of examples of products not being mentioned in the keynote but being released within a Tuesday or three of the keynote. No reason to think it won't happen again.

Hellhammer
Jun 7, 2010, 02:26 PM
If you consider the computer part of the compagny, yes.
Now, if you consider the compagny as a whole, we should not really care about what it is, rather we should think in terms of what it wants to become.
- a mobile phone/tablet manufacturing compagny ?
- a media/software/music/book distribution compagny ?
- an advertisement compagny ?
All in all, I am not so convinced the MBA matters much for Apple now.

I agree. MBA has been the worst selling Mac (just a guess) and it's market ain't that big, especially now due iPad.

Mac Pro is even more in need of an update and it received zero spotlight. We will see some updates pretty soon, so many products are needing one

hitekalex
Jun 7, 2010, 02:26 PM
Calm everyone.. They didn't want to announce any computer updates at WWDC, in order to keep all the focus on iPhone 4.

Mac updates will be out during the next 1-2 weeks. Same as MBP's were updated 1 week after iPad conference.

ajohnson1234
Jun 7, 2010, 02:28 PM
I'm torn between just getting the 13" mbp or waiting out another 1 or 2 weeks. Don't want to wait another week and just feel disappointed if it's a no-show.

SaleenS351
Jun 7, 2010, 02:51 PM
I'm just disappointed we didn't learn anything we didn't already know. ZERO surprises.....I'm looking forward to getting my Sony Vaio Z in the mail tomorrow. I would've returned for a generous MBA refresh. It doesn't look like we're going to see a redesign anytime soon.

zedsdead
Jun 7, 2010, 02:58 PM
I'm torn between just getting the 13" mbp or waiting out another 1 or 2 weeks. Don't want to wait another week and just feel disappointed if it's a no-show.

I would give it until next Tuesday. The 13" Macbook Pro is much more appealing than the Air currently.

halledise
Jun 7, 2010, 03:27 PM
patience, boys and girls, patience.

can't expect all your presents at once :D

ps. Scottsdale must be at WWDC cos he's very quiet at the moment

thinkdesign
Jun 7, 2010, 03:33 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

I don't need a phone that does 300 things, and can even make a phone call if I'm lucky. I DO need a mobile laptop that fits the most basic 4 criteria of "mobility" -- lightweight, durable, good battery life, and 3G. (What I don't need in an 'Air' is -- every geektastic thing inside it. I'm not editing 3-D Smell-O-Vision movies, while sitting next to the last working outlet at Starbucks.) :o)

bluescity
Jun 7, 2010, 03:35 PM
ps. Scottsdale must be at WWDC cos he's very quiet at the moment


Or crying...or composing the most lambasting post ever. Recall that his vow of optimism was technically over today.

slipper
Jun 7, 2010, 03:39 PM
No love for the Macbook Air... i guess it'll probably be just a minor and discrete update

entatlrg
Jun 7, 2010, 03:42 PM
I'm just disappointed we didn't learn anything we didn't already know. ZERO surprises.....I'm looking forward to getting my Sony Vaio Z in the mail tomorrow. I would've returned for a generous MBA refresh. It doesn't look like we're going to see a redesign anytime soon.

Please post a review of your Z after you've had it for a few days.

jamesryanbell
Jun 7, 2010, 03:43 PM
They may just disretely update it like the di the MacBook pros. Given the focus of iOS, I don't see it being a spotlight issue right now. Just food for thought.

Manatee
Jun 7, 2010, 03:43 PM
Today wasn't the day for discussing other hardware. They don't want to dilute the focus and media coverage. People have to absorb one thing at a time. We knew this was the day for the iPhone 4.

Updates for the aging "old school" products will come. Mac Pro, Mini, maybe MacBook Air. I suspect Apple is trying to get many Air users to adopt the iPad. I have the iPad, and I enjoy it for browsing, but the main thing I've learned from my month with the iPad is that I really want an updated Air. (4GB RAM, less overheating... at least)

I recently gifted my original Air to a nephew, and I'm hoping for an update to the existing version... soon.

niuniu
Jun 7, 2010, 03:45 PM
ps. Scottsdale must be at WWDC cos he's very quiet at the moment

He's temp banned I think..

Cheffy Dave
Jun 7, 2010, 03:49 PM
Maybe sometime in the future...

According to MacBreak weekly,on TWIT Apple has the Moscony center rented for June 27th , maybe then:eek:

entatlrg
Jun 7, 2010, 04:05 PM
He's temp banned I think..

Really, why? Too many "I believe" repetitive posts or insulting other members?

niuniu
Jun 7, 2010, 04:14 PM
Really, why? Too many "I believe" repetitive posts or insulting other members?

Really no idea - just spotted the 'In Time Out' earlier and his avatar removed..

Hellhammer
Jun 7, 2010, 04:17 PM
Really, why? Too many "I believe" repetitive posts or insulting other members?

http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=229056

Yeh, he is. I'd guess because of insulting as some of his post were not that nice though they were informative. Attitude is the key to the victory

entatlrg
Jun 7, 2010, 04:45 PM
Attitude is the key to the victory

Well said.

bluescity
Jun 7, 2010, 05:15 PM
250.94 -5.02‎ (-1.96%‎) Jun 7 4:00pm ET
251.30‎ +0.36‎ (0.14%‎) After Hours

thinkdesign
Jun 7, 2010, 05:17 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

"Moscone Center rented for June 27th"... OMG. First I should wait 'till WWDC. Then 1 week after. No, 2. Now wait another 3 weeks. #*%@^/+! ---- Would Apple rent a convention center, just to announce spec-bumping a few things... the Air, Mini, smaller iMac, the Pro, and the prehistoric monitor? Nah, not for small stuff like that. But if the new Apple TeeVee were to debut... oh, wait. Then that "we must Focus attention on one thing at a time" principal governs. Seems I can't win, here. Unless I wait until 2 weeks after June 27th... for a new 'Air'.

codehead
Jun 7, 2010, 05:35 PM
Fudge.

jns2001
Jun 7, 2010, 05:37 PM
The MBA was a nice laptop, Ive bought two of them and although it had its irks, it was above average, I will still use mine for a while, but then new things arrive and we need to move on. I am getting an Ipad, the new Iphone, and I will use the MBP 13 issued by my company. I will sell it before it is declared EOL.

Mhkobe
Jun 7, 2010, 06:20 PM
He's temp banned I think..

Wow, somebody at MR has a sense of humour, I can't even imagine him right now.

tigres
Jun 7, 2010, 06:21 PM
Boy I really hope they do update this soon, I could really use the 4GB that's coming to us ;).

I Was looking for that 2 page dissertation on why no release, I guess it's not here yet.:cool:

voicegy
Jun 7, 2010, 07:46 PM
I'm with most posters here - give it a week or two at most. Safari got a major upgrade (or will) and it wasn't mentioned. This was iPhone 4's moment and iOS's moment. Quiet MBA upgrade coming soon....;)

SaleenS351
Jun 7, 2010, 07:56 PM
Please post a review of your Z after you've had it for a few days.

Will do...

ditosou
Jun 7, 2010, 08:08 PM
I'm with most posters here - give it a week or two at most. Safari got a major upgrade (or will) and it wasn't mentioned. This was iPhone 4's moment and iOS's moment. Quiet MBA upgrade coming soon....;)

well this kind of post from a 2002 macrumors guy gave me some hope :) ... I hope that you are not joking... I pray for a 4GB / 256 SSD MBA......

PsyD4Me
Jun 7, 2010, 08:08 PM
250.94 -5.02‎ (-1.96%‎) Jun 7 4:00pm ET
251.30‎ +0.36‎ (0.14%‎) After Hours

And what do you contribute to MR sir/mam? He was the voice of reason here

bluescity
Jun 7, 2010, 08:54 PM
And what do you contribute to MR sir/mam? He was the voice of reason here

If you are implying that I was slighting Scottsdale, I guess your "Demi-God" status, whatever that means, doesn't entail the usual attributes we associate with the deity.

Obviously my "him" was a reference to Jobs, not Scottsdale. Hence the reference to the Apple stock. Look back at my own posts. Limited as they may be, you'll see I'm quite the fan of Scottsdale. And next time, a modicum of reflection will serve you well, I think.

entatlrg
Jun 7, 2010, 09:14 PM
According to MacBreak weekly,on TWIT Apple has the Moscony center rented for June 27th , maybe then:eek:

Is that for sure?

halledise
Jun 7, 2010, 09:50 PM
I'm with most posters here - give it a week or two at most. Safari got a major upgrade (or will) and it wasn't mentioned. This was iPhone 4's moment and iOS's moment. Quiet MBA upgrade coming soon....;)

+1 :D

halledise
Jun 7, 2010, 09:52 PM
If you are implying that I was slighting Scottsdale, I guess your "Demi-God" status, whatever that means, doesn't entail the usual attributes we associate with the deity.

Obviously my "him" was a reference to Jobs, not Scottsdale. Hence the reference to the Apple stock. Look back at my own posts. Limited as they may be, you'll see I'm quite the fan of Scottsdale. And next time, a modicum of reflection will serve you well, I think.

ooooh aaaaaaah! a flame - actually a flare.
tsk tsk :rolleyes:

jfyrfytr25
Jun 7, 2010, 10:01 PM
I am not sure what to think anymore. I have been waiting for a refresh for about 8 months so i can buy. currently I have a MBP 15" but i owned an air first gen and despite a few video issues I loved it.

Many of you keep saying give it a week and there will be a silent upgrade.
My issue with that is this:

a. I feel that it is well overdue for a design change. if it does not get one I think the MBA will have a hard time staying competitive and relevent.

b. if it does get a redesign, there is no way they will upgrade it silently. it would be something they talk about like today.

c. If it does not get a redesign, for me, it will be as disappointing as nothing at all.

they have neglected this machine for too long.

halledise
Jun 8, 2010, 01:30 AM
http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=229056

Yeh, he is. I'd guess because of insulting as some of his post were not that nice though they were informative. Attitude is the key to the victory

maybe he suggested someone to go get rooted?
not necessarily a bad idea sometimes, but is has to be said in the nice way and accompanied by a smiley at least :)
who dares, wins

soph
Jun 8, 2010, 01:31 AM
Mac updates will be out during the next 1-2 weeks. Same as MBP's were updated 1 week after iPad conference.

If we stick to Scottsdale's mantra ("once they got the production lines ready after the MacBook update...." or somesuch) it'll be another 2 weeks: There were 35 days aka 5 weeks between the MacBook Pro update and the MacBook update, and it's been 21 days days aka 3 weeks since. Buyer's guide is quite convenient ;)

heavenlyhero
Jun 8, 2010, 02:14 AM
I can't wait any longer. I always wanted to see how beefy they made the MBA before I decided between that and the MBP 13 anyway.

Ordered the MBP 13" today and maxed it to 8GB and 256 SSD.

Apart from the extra weight, which I'm still a bit frustrated at, this will fit my needs and then some.

If the MBA comes out in the next few weeks with 4GB and 256 SSD, I'll be pretty pi**ed. But that's just the game you play with Apple. Sometimes I almost think it would be better to be oblivious to release schedules, updates etc...

halledise
Jun 8, 2010, 02:49 AM
I can't wait any longer. I always wanted to see how beefy they made the MBA before I decided between that and the MBP 13 anyway.

Ordered the MBP 13" today and maxed it to 8GB and 256 SSD.

Apart from the extra weight, which I'm still a bit frustrated at, this will fit my needs and then some.

If the MBA comes out in the next few weeks with 4GB and 256 SSD, I'll be pretty pi**ed. But that's just the game you play with Apple. Sometimes I almost think it would be better to be oblivious to release schedules, updates etc...

geez you must be loaded - US$2650 for those specs (that's Aus$3500 here down under) :eek:
you would've been better off with a 15" core i5/i7 for those sort of bikkies.
or better still wait for the new Air.

(loan me a grand willya?) :D

askduds
Jun 8, 2010, 04:15 AM
Personally I just want 4gb RAM. Give that to me for the current price and I'll buy my first Mac.

Barbie
Jun 8, 2010, 04:31 AM
perhaps because today is tuesday we might get something ...
:mad:

ValSalva
Jun 8, 2010, 04:44 AM
perhaps because today is tuesday we might get something ...
:mad:

I'm hoping too. But I'm not holding my breath. We were warned that WWDC was going to be all about iPhone. Apple didn't lie or mislead there. I think Mac is very far from their focus. Did you see how at the end of WWDC all the teams were publicly thanked. It must suck at Apple to be on a team working on a Mac product now :(

entatlrg
Jun 8, 2010, 06:41 AM
I can't wait any longer. I always wanted to see how beefy they made the MBA before I decided between that and the MBP 13 anyway.

Ordered the MBP 13" today and maxed it to 8GB and 256 SSD.

Apart from the extra weight, which I'm still a bit frustrated at, this will fit my needs and then some.

If the MBA comes out in the next few weeks with 4GB and 256 SSD, I'll be pretty pi**ed. But that's just the game you play with Apple. Sometimes I almost think it would be better to be oblivious to release schedules, updates etc...

Nice !!

you would've been better off with a 15" core i5/i7

Not really, if he's looking for a lighter computer with a 13" screen.

BTW great choice, the extra 1.5lbs won't bother you but you'll like the size, footprint and the power. The 13" MBP beside the Air doesn't look a whole lot different, just a little thicker.

Huubster
Jun 8, 2010, 07:37 AM
I believe...
Ehm no. I'm not going there. ;)

In any case. No Mac updates at WWDC means nothing imho.
I stick to my end of June deadline before I decide to what else I could turn.

Cheffy Dave
Jun 8, 2010, 09:46 AM
Calm everyone.. They didn't want to announce any computer updates at WWDC, in order to keep all the focus on iPhone 4.

Mac updates will be out during the next 1-2 weeks. Same as MBP's were updated 1 week after iPad conference.

According to MacBreak weekly, on TWIT with my man Leo LaPorte, Apple has booked the Moscony Center for June 27th, Hope springs eternal:rolleyes:

Cheffy Dave
Jun 8, 2010, 09:52 AM
Is that for sure?

Only know what I hear with my ears and see with my eyes:cool:

250.94 -5.02‎ (-1.96%‎) Jun 7 4:00pm ET
251.30‎ +0.36‎ (0.14%‎) After Hours

NO IT Doesn't:mad:

colourfastt
Jun 8, 2010, 02:03 PM
Personally I just want 4gb RAM. Give that to me for the current price and I'll buy my first Mac.

I don't know why people are fixated on having 4GB of RAM in the MBA; I have a 15" MBP with 4GB and my MBA with its soldered 2GB and honestly the MBA is FASTER.

flynz4
Jun 8, 2010, 02:39 PM
I don't know why people are fixated on having 4GB of RAM in the MBA; I have a 15" MBP with 4GB and my MBA with its soldered 2GB and honestly the MBA is FASTER.

I find my MBA faster as well... but I am not running Parallels or Fusion. I think that is where the memory really makes a difference.

/Jim

codehead
Jun 8, 2010, 03:13 PM
According to MacBreak weekly, on TWIT with my man Leo LaPorte, Apple has booked the Moscony Center for June 27th, Hope springs eternal:rolleyes:

But that's a Sunday. Does Apple do product announcement events on a Sunday? I figure a company party or inside event unfortunately.

ermir4444
Jun 8, 2010, 03:45 PM
But that's a Sunday. Does Apple do product announcement events on a Sunday? I figure a company party or inside event unfortunately.

That is quite weird. Apple will have another event in September for the iPod/Apple TV event as they usually do. Having 3 events in a spam of 4 months is a lot considering that this is Apple.

If this is true then they might have the event strictly for MAC and the next revision of OSX or it might just be the iPod event coming a little earlier.
Another slim possibility is that it might be to announce the 2nd quarter earnings but highly unlikely.

I'm hoping for this to be true because we all know Apple doesn't hold conferences for minor speed bumps and I'm certainly hoping it is a MAC event and aweee us all because to be honest there hasn't been a stand alone MAC or OSX event in a long time. Damn you iOS...

iMacThere4Iam
Jun 8, 2010, 04:05 PM
Wait a week. Two possibly. They clearly decided to focus this event on the iPhone and iOS. I don't think the word "Mac" was uttered, was it? And yet there clearly are Mac hardware updates coming.

Hope you're right, but I don't think Apple's gonna want anything taking the focus off of the new iPhone for at least a couple of weeks after its release, even though they're two different animals.

askduds
Jun 8, 2010, 04:44 PM
I don't know why people are fixated on having 4GB of RAM in the MBA; I have a 15" MBP with 4GB and my MBA with its soldered 2GB and honestly the MBA is FASTER.

Good to know but it's faster NOW.

I want to keep the thing for a half decade if possible, 4gb's near essential.

glitch44
Jun 8, 2010, 08:13 PM
Newsweek: Does Apple's iPhone 4 Signal the Death of the Macintosh? (http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonic-shifts/2010/06/08/does-apple-s-iphone-4-signal-the-death-of-the-macintosh.html)

Stetrain
Jun 8, 2010, 08:19 PM
Apple has held Mac hardware events before both in August and October.

thinkdesign
Jun 8, 2010, 08:40 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

Re: Cheffy Dave's MacBreak Weekly scoop: Does Apple have any history of renting the Moscone Center for one Sunday in summer... for any purpose? Another history question: The last time they had 4 or 5 items all getting small upgrades at the same time: Was it all done by silent Tuesday updating of the AppleStore, or did a bunch of little stuff get it's own one-day press event? ---- If it IS a press event, the press releases would go out, what, 1 or 1-1/2 weeks in advance? So for an event the 27th, we might hear of a press release on about the 17th? Hmm. ------ Last guess: Could it be the Mac Pro and big monitors are getting a signifiicant enough upgrade, that the event could be just to announce those?

entatlrg
Jun 8, 2010, 08:55 PM
Newsweek: Does Apple's iPhone 4 Signal the Death of the Macintosh? (http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/techtonic-shifts/2010/06/08/does-apple-s-iphone-4-signal-the-death-of-the-macintosh.html)

That should be in on the front page.

Good read, I believe, makes sense after all.

The question is to stay/get further entangled in the Apple bubble with Mac's, iPhones, now iPads and onward OR jump ship in resistance of the direction Apple is going~profit ahead of function.

The way he's got people buying App's from the App store no doubt is quite "magical" to S Jobs ;)

Cheffy Dave
Jun 8, 2010, 09:23 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

Re: Cheffy Dave's MacBreak Weekly scoop: Does Apple have any history of renting the Moscone Center for one Sunday in summer... for any purpose? Another history question: The last time they had 4 or 5 items all getting small upgrades at the same time: Was it all done by silent Tuesday updating of the AppleStore, or did a bunch of little stuff get it's own one-day press event? ---- If it IS a press event, the press releases would go out, what, 1 or 1-1/2 weeks in advance? So for an event the 27th, we might hear of a press release on about the 17th? Hmm. ------ Last guess: Could it be the Mac Pro and big monitors are getting a signifiicant enough upgrade, that the event could be just to announce those?)

Probably an execs child graduation party:eek:

thinkdesign
Jun 8, 2010, 09:33 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

Cheffy Dave: Is there any way to use the chef's / catering biz grapevine to check: is there any catering planned for the 6/27th event? If so, is it the cheaper kind suitable a press event.... or better catering (full lunch?) of the level that'd be suitable for a huge Apple staff-only event?

Spacekatgal
Jun 8, 2010, 11:05 PM
Also, on topic, this is how I feel. We all love our MBAs, but I just think they won't be updated this year. They won't be EOLed, but they are going to go the way of the Mac Mini for a while.

I think a year without an update will let them really focus on it, if they decide to keep it. They could come back and kick it out of the park, but lets get real for a second. Most of Apple's revenue comes from iOS devices and iPods. That is their focus. Steve Jobs himself compared the Mac to a truck, which fewer people will use in time.

I'm keeping mine for grad school, but this machine is stuck in between the ipad and the 13 inch MBP. It's without a solid target audience.

Bri

thinkdesign
Jun 8, 2010, 11:32 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

"No market" is what execs. say when they don't feel like doing something. ------- I think the following may be analagous to the Air's story: Apple launched the Newton with too many arbitrary preconceptions about exactly how thin and light it "needed" to be (the famous "block of wood" story), and for lack of a bit of intelligent mgmt. flexibility it debuted under-batteried (4 AAA cells), etc. Then Jobs returned and EOL'd it, whereupon all the competing companies made money off their versions of PDAs, for years. Esp. Palm which was just bought by HP. This rigid notion of the 'Air' must be 3.0 pounds, has IMHO painted the design and specs both, into a corner.

Mhkobe
Jun 9, 2010, 01:00 AM
Do MBA's sell better than Apple TV? They aren't really comparable due to the massive price difference, but the Apple TV doesn't sell very well, so I was just wondering.

soph
Jun 9, 2010, 03:05 AM
I think a year without an update will let them really focus on it, if they decide to keep it.

Let's face it, the MBA has gone a full year without an update, which should have given them plenty time to focus. *And* last June's update was not a screamer technology-wise.

But then again there are the CPU/GPU issues, so actually Apple might have been forced to not update and it's not been their choice.

Whatever the reason, the current status of the MBA does not make it a good buy.

JasO
Jun 9, 2010, 03:12 AM
Let's face it, the MBA has gone a full year without an update, which should have given them plenty time to focus. *And* last June's update was not a screamer technology-wise.

Whatever the reason, the current status of the MBA does not make it a good buy.

I'm guessing a silent refresh will come soon, it's been too long without a refresh and as you say it really isn't a device to purchase at the moment.

Hopefully it will also receive a price drop with the update... whenever that may be.. :o

bluescity
Jun 9, 2010, 10:17 AM
Here is something to check out:
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/3886671/What-Does-the-Macs-Non-Presence-at-Apples-WWDC-Mean.htm

Repeats some of the NW article but is more reporting that opinion.

capn7
Jun 9, 2010, 04:11 PM
I'm calling an update in November.

jns2001
Jun 9, 2010, 08:23 PM
I find mesmerizing the fixation that some has with the topic of the new MBA, it is a great notebook all right? I bought two of them. Also, I hate the MBP 13, which I was given by the company, too heavy in my opinion, and the HD is a POS when compared to the SSD of the MBA. Nonetheless, why keep dreaming and shooting random dates on when this thing will get updated. I don't think it will, and if does, then I will look on whether it fits or not my needs and my pocket. People have issues and they don't want them let go. C'monn people, it is just a notebook for Christ sake.:rolleyes:

thinkdesign
Jun 10, 2010, 09:30 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

"I find mesmerizing the fixation that sime has with thr topic of the new MBA ... it is just a notebook..." Well, if you're mesmerised, that's flattering. The term "fixation" though, can have a judgemental edge to it. ------ My take: I don't know what MR's founder had in mind for this thread, but I do see elsewhere a disciinct area for "buying advice". Suggesting that the 'Air' forum, (the only one defined so specifically that I've seen on web) might be intended for a scope of discussion broader than "buying advice". Also of course, threads can take on a life of their own, and conversation can wander across topics, for which other threads do exist. ^^^^^ Different readers have different interests. Some want troubleshooting, some buying timing advice, some worry about Apple's long term committment to the costly computers they or their firm are investing in, and some readers have tech needs at the lightweight end of the laptop spectrum which is where all mfr's offerings are skimpy but slowly improving. Some of us follow chip trends, some of us are interested in overall design, some of us are interested in the market/demographics/sociology/tech trends aspects (who needs / wants the Air's lightness?), and some of us (not moi) may even have stock buying/selling in the backs of our minds. And Apple does LEAD enough, that it becomes the FOCUS of expectations and intellectual interest, in a way that all mfr's don't. ----- We don't have sub-sub-sub-threads for each of those things. So these "Air" dept. talks are an interesting MIX. But of course, one doesn't have to read every article in a newspaper. Same here :o)

Spacekatgal
Jun 10, 2010, 11:24 AM
I find mesmerizing the fixation that some has with the topic of the new MBA, it is a great notebook all right? I bought two of them. Also, I hate the MBP 13, which I was given by the company, too heavy in my opinion, and the HD is a POS when compared to the SSD of the MBA. Nonetheless, why keep dreaming and shooting random dates on when this thing will get updated. I don't think it will, and if does, then I will look on whether it fits or not my needs and my pocket. People have issues and they don't want them let go. C'monn people, it is just a notebook for Christ sake.:rolleyes:

Spelling aside, I do get your point.

If you owned one, though - you'd understand the fanatical loyalty that the MBA inspires. It's just such a fun little laptop. I feel like it's a lot less important though, now that I have my iPad.

I think in a few years Apple will reevaluate and bring out a really kick butt MBA. But it's going to wander through the desert for 40 years first.

jns2001
Jun 10, 2010, 12:34 PM
Spelling aside, I do get your point.

If you owned one, though - you'd understand the fanatical loyalty that the MBA inspires. It's just such a fun little laptop. I feel like it's a lot less important though, now that I have my iPad.

I think in a few years Apple will reevaluate and bring out a really kick butt MBA. But it's going to wander through the desert for 40 years first.

Sorry for the spelling, I had a few glasses prior to writing my rant. To the other fellow colleague, on the post above yours:

You are right, nobody needs to read it, nor come to the site as matter of fact. But if one does, he also should be entitled to his/her opinion even if it contradicts some. Oh, never mind, I was in a bad mood last night. Sorry if the "fixation" word bothered you. Although I don't see any evil on the word itself or the context it was used.

Fixation = an obsessive interest in or feeling about someone or something.

Cheers :)

Spacekatgal
Jun 10, 2010, 12:47 PM
Sorry for the spelling, I had a few glasses prior to writing my rant. To the other fellow colleague, on the post above yours:

You are right, nobody needs to read it, nor come to the site as matter of fact. But if one does, he also should be entitled to his/her opinion even if it contradicts some. Oh, never mind, I was in a bad mood last night. Sorry if the "fixation" word bothered you. Although I don't see any evil on the word itself or the context it was used.

Fixation = an obsessive interest in or feeling about someone or something.

Cheers :)

Well, I totally agree with your point - alcohol or not. You'd think Apple had killed some people's puppies or something by not updating the MBA. It's just a box.

It's like all the Newton owners that have clung to it for a decade, and felt assaulted when Apple brought the iPad out.

I think there are some people who will have to find something else to base their identity on, other than the MBA. Let it go. It will be back in a few years, but it's not Apple's focus.

pharmx
Jun 10, 2010, 01:15 PM
Well, I totally agree with your point - alcohol or not. You'd think Apple had killed some people's puppies or something by not updating the MBA. It's just a box.

It's like all the Newton owners that have clung to it for a decade, and felt assaulted when Apple brought the iPad out.

I think there are some people who will have to find something else to base their identity on, other than the MBA. Let it go. It will be back in a few years, but it's not Apple's focus.

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess I'm just disappointed at the prospect of Apple pursuing "mobile entertainment devices" as its primary focus, instead of "mobile computing devices". Regardless of how people used their MBA, or what people felt was lacking, I think Apple was headed in the right direction. That said though, I can see that same path being reached via the iPad depending on what Apple has in store for the iOS platform. What I'm worried about is innovation coming to a halt as media consumption takes center stage.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that the current iOS devices are being used as stepping stones for future products that are not only innovative in design, but are capable and efficient at content development, to complement the existing catalog of content consumption devices.

Spacekatgal
Jun 10, 2010, 02:15 PM
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess I'm just disappointed at the prospect of Apple pursuing "mobile entertainment devices" as its primary focus, instead of "mobile computing devices". Regardless of how people used their MBA, or what people felt was lacking, I think Apple was headed in the right direction. That said though, I can see that same path being reached via the iPad depending on what Apple has in store for the iOS platform. What I'm worried about is innovation coming to a halt as media consumption takes center stage.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that the current iOS devices are being used as stepping stones for future products that are not only innovative in design, but are capable and efficient at content development, to complement the existing catalog of content consumption devices.

Well, if iOS is going to be a long-term contender - it will have to evolve. I agree that just being a consumption device is not good for the long run. But, apps like imovie for the new iPhone are very promising on that front.

thinkdesign
Jun 10, 2010, 02:29 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

"It's just a box." No. It's a wedge. :o) ------------- Which is exactly why an 'Air' is less likely to push you down the path to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, than a "box" shape. ----- Without it, for my needs I'd have to submit to crappy windows netbook hell and pay hourly for endless troubleshooting help. Windows is too much agita. Or worse -- use some exotic ubuntu / etc. o/s, in which case I'd have to marry someone who knows how to give constant free help for that. Unfortunately, I have no such prospects. :o)

gwsat
Jun 10, 2010, 04:03 PM
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess I'm just disappointed at the prospect of Apple pursuing "mobile entertainment devices" as its primary focus, instead of "mobile computing devices". Regardless of how people used their MBA, or what people felt was lacking, I think Apple was headed in the right direction. That said though, I can see that same path being reached via the iPad depending on what Apple has in store for the iOS platform. What I'm worried about is innovation coming to a halt as media consumption takes center stage.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that the current iOS devices are being used as stepping stones for future products that are not only innovative in design, but are capable and efficient at content development, to complement the existing catalog of content consumption devices.
You echo my own sentiments. I think the current iteration of iOS is a pale imitation of OS X or any other real OS. Like you, I hope for iOS's continued development in a way that will allow my iPad to become much more like a real computer and much less like an iPhone.

thinkdesign
Jun 10, 2010, 09:53 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

I can and do "focus" on several things every day. I can't see why Apple can't do that too, or why it thinks the public can't do that. Perhaps it's just an individual quirk, of the maximum leader. Does a car company stall release of a new car model or upgrade, because it might compete for attention with some other announcement? Of course not! Steve: Most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time, already!

pharmx
Jun 10, 2010, 10:22 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

I can and do "focus" on several things every day. I can't see why Apple can't do that too, or why it thinks the public can't do that. Perhaps it's just an individual quirk, of the maximum leader. Does a car company stall release of a new car model or upgrade, because it might compete for attention with some other announcement? Of course not! Steve: Most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time, already!

Well, I don't think Apple as a whole should do that simply because they're already struggling with opposing ideals and mantras. Sometimes that leads to innovation, but often times it leads to inefficient use of time and/or wasted R&D. However, Scottsdale brought up a good point in one of his posts...why not split into two groups? One could be the "mobile entertainment" division while focusing on content delivery and consumption...the other could be the "mobile computing" division that focuses on content creation and development. Obviously there would be some overlap, and of course there are several other variables to consider.

On the other hand, the infrastructure/organization could remain the way it is, but just bulked up and reinforced with more talent, so that something like the current situation where people are being reassigned from OSX to iOS doesn't happen. With the amount of money they have readily available, there is no excuse for people having to be reassigned from one product line to another....unless of course said product line is being d/c. Instead of having billions of dollars sitting around collecting dust, put it to good use! :D

thinkdesign
Jun 10, 2010, 11:40 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

pharmx: Yes. The theory that personnel were unavailable for Mac work sounds improbable to me. Or if true, it's an extreme case of misallocating resources, i.e. pretending to not have the $ they do have. I wonder if the campus construction boom I read about, will lead to higher staffing levels so Apple can really start firing on all cylinders? ------ I need 2 things: In order to switch to Mac and invest time and money in it, I need to feel confident that there will be a long-term "maintenance of effort" on all things Mac. But in the short term, like NOW, I need to get an adequate MB Air, #/%^*&@ it!

soph
Jun 11, 2010, 01:29 AM
[SIZE=1]"It's just a box." No. It's a wedge. :o) ------------- Which is exactly why an 'Air' is less likely to push you down the path to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, than a "box" shape.

Which is exactly the one reason I'm still clinging to the hope they'll soon get an upgrade and am not going to 13"MBP (even though weight plays a role, too).

skate71290
Jun 15, 2010, 04:03 PM
You echo my own sentiments. I think the current iteration of iOS is a pale imitation of OS X or any other real OS. Like you, I hope for iOS's continued development in a way that will allow my iPad to become much more like a real computer and much less like an iPhone.

i was so disappointed when the iPad didn't ship with a customised build of Mac OS X

gwsat
Jun 15, 2010, 04:16 PM
i was so disappointed when the iPad didn't ship with a customised build of Mac OS X
Yeah, right.:) I like my iPad a lot, even with its smartphone OS. My complaint isn't that the iPad doesn't do anything well because it does a lot well. Nevertheless, I resent the iPad's inability to support Flash, despite Flash being an Internet standard. It has other inadequacies, too, which cause me to use a real computer for all but the most casual Net surfing and watching Netflix streaming. The iPad is a great little tool anyway, though. There was a reason that Apple sold 2 million of them in less than 30 days after the iPad's release. It is simply, the proverbial "better mousetrap."

pharmx
Jun 15, 2010, 10:07 PM
Yeah, right.:) I like my iPad a lot, even with its smartphone OS. My complaint isn't that the iPad doesn't do anything well because it does a lot well. Nevertheless, I resent the iPad's inability to support Flash, despite Flash being an Internet standard. It has other inadequacies, too, which cause me to use a real computer for all but the most casual Net surfing and watching Netflix streaming. The iPad is a great little tool anyway, though. There was a reason that Apple sold 2 million of them in less than 30 days after the iPad's release. It is simply, the proverbial "better mousetrap."

Lol, I thought we weren't going to debate the Flash thing? ;)

Flash is NOT an internet standard by the way. Adobe tried and failed to get approval. Despite the inconvenience and difficulty short term with having to wean off of Flash dependence, the integrity of the internet and its evolution as a platform depends on it.

entatlrg
Jun 16, 2010, 12:44 AM
i was so disappointed when the iPad didn't ship with a customised build of Mac OS X

They want you dumping all your money into buying apps from the App Store....

What the iPad 'could of been' versus 'what it is' is very far apart what's in between that making money for shareholders .....

gwsat
Jun 16, 2010, 09:23 AM
Lol, I thought we weren't going to debate the Flash thing? ;)

Flash is NOT an internet standard by the way. Adobe tried and failed to get approval. Despite the inconvenience and difficulty short term with having to wean off of Flash dependence, the integrity of the internet and its evolution as a platform depends on it.
No, you and I have beat the Flash issue to death and, I thought, had long understood that we fundamentally disagree about it. Nevertheless, I reserve the right to express my opinion that the iPad's inability to support Flash cripples it.

You are technically correct that Flash is not an approved Internet standard but it is so widely used, it seems to me that it is a de facto standard, nonetheless. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Finally, you will feel better if you don't get your knickers in a twist every time I express my dismay about Flash support not being available in the iPad. I will no doubt find an opportunity to do it again. In the spirit of comity, I promise not to react whenever you say that Steve Jobs bafflegab rationalization for not enabling Flash in the iPad makes sense.:)

Scottsdale
Jun 16, 2010, 09:35 AM
No, you and I have beat the Flash issue to death and, I thought, had long understood that we fundamentally disagree about it. Nevertheless, I reserve the right to express my opinion that the iPad's inability to support Flash cripples it.

You are technically correct that Flash is not an approved Internet standard but it is so widely used, it seems to me that it is a de facto standard, nonetheless. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Finally, you will feel better if you don't get your knickers in a twist every time I express my dismay about Flash support not being available in the iPad. I will no doubt find an opportunity to do it again. In the spirit of comity, I promise not to react whenever you say that Steve Jobs bafflegab rationalization for not enabling Flash in the iPad makes sense.:)

+1million

Flash was on 97% of Internet connected computers in Early 2009. Apple is going backwards. The biggest problem I have is Apple complaining and misleading people as to why they don't want Flash. If they came out and said it competes and we are never going to support it, I would think 100X more of them. Them trash talking Adobe and the technology, relevance, and loss of their own customers' abilities to surf the web is sickening.

Spacekatgal
Jun 16, 2010, 10:36 AM
Lol, I thought we weren't going to debate the Flash thing? ;)

Flash is NOT an internet standard by the way. Adobe tried and failed to get approval. Despite the inconvenience and difficulty short term with having to wean off of Flash dependence, the integrity of the internet and its evolution as a platform depends on it.

Well, I completely agree with you, PharmX. I have also occasionally missed Flash, but I see the sacrifice as weaning myself away from something bad for the Internet as a whole. Flash is bad for the Internet as a whole. I'm glad Apple has taken a stand. In two or three years, this battle will be won, and we'll all be better off for it.

I also want to say, I love Adobe products. I make my living with them, but they have totally lost my trust. If you want well-written, modern software, you don't want Adobe.

Bri

gwsat
Jun 16, 2010, 11:16 AM
Well, I completely agree with you, PharmX. I have also occasionally missed Flash, but I see the sacrifice as weaning myself away from something bad for the Internet as a whole. Flash is bad for the Internet as a whole. I'm glad Apple has taken a stand. In two or three years, this battle will be won, and we'll all be better off for it.

I also want to say, I love Adobe products. I make my living with them, but they have totally lost my trust. If you want well-written, modern software, you don't want Adobe.
In fairness to you and pharmx, I will say I recognize the hit on battery longevity that adding Flash to the iPad would have caused and the iPad's battery life is a major selling point. Nevertheless, I have found that the absence of Flash from the iPad, particularly its inability to playback Hulu and TV network videos makes me mad all over again every time I think about it. In short, there is a good faith disagreement about the issue. I think the biggest problem Scottsdale and I have with it, though, is that Steve Jobs' posturing about the issue, to the effect that the decision was made for technical reasons and not to prevent Adobe to having access to the iPad's internal workings, was less than convincing, to us at least.

Spacekatgal
Jun 16, 2010, 11:19 AM
In fairness to you and pharmx, I will say I recognize the hit on battery longevity that adding Flash to the iPad would have caused and the iPad's battery life is a major selling point. Nevertheless, I have found that the absence of Flash from the iPad, particularly its inability to playback Hulu and TV network videos makes me mad all over again every time I think about it. In short, there is a good faith disagreement about the issue. I think the biggest problem Scottsdale and I have with it, though, is that Steve Jobs' posturing about the issue, to the effect that the decision was made for technical reasons and not to prevent Adobe to having access to the iPad's internal workings, was less than convincing, to us at least.

I totally agree that it's a good faith disagreement. I found Jobs to be very direct and sincere on this issue. I agreed with every word of his open letter about Flash. I really think that SJ thinks Flash is a bad product, though I do concede their are political games at play as well.

I have barely missed Flash, but that is my experience. I was thrilled the other day when I discovered Lynda.com works with iPad now. It was the extent of what I needed to work.

Bri

gwsat
Jun 16, 2010, 01:06 PM
I totally agree that it's a good faith disagreement. I found Jobs to be very direct and sincere on this issue. I agreed with every word of his open letter about Flash. I really think that SJ thinks Flash is a bad product, though I do concede their are political games at play as well.

I have barely missed Flash, but that is my experience. I was thrilled the other day when I discovered Lynda.com works with iPad now. It was the extent of what I needed to work.
I believe that we will see more and more sites moving away from Flash. After all, the iPad's sales figures have been incredible so far and show no signs of abating. It has turned into an even bigger phenomenon than the original iPhone was. I don't know what would be involved in shifting from Flash to an alternate technology but if I relied on the Web for my livelihood, I would find out -- fast.

By the way, I agree that Flash is a bloated product, made worse by Apple's video drivers. It always takes two to tango, doesn't it?

pharmx
Jun 16, 2010, 01:17 PM
No, you and I have beat the Flash issue to death and, I thought, had long understood that we fundamentally disagree about it. Nevertheless, I reserve the right to express my opinion that the iPad's inability to support Flash cripples it.

Agreed and understood...you have every right to express your opinion, as do I. My post wasn't meant to imply otherwise...I just assumed that we had also agreed that since Flash (or lack thereof) on the iPad has nothing to do with the MBA, we were not going continuously go off-topic. However, if you feel that a Flash-enabled iPad is equivalent to an MBA, by all means we can continue to voice our polar opinions here. I think the quality of Flash when running OS X versus Windows is a much more relevant topic though, with respect to the Air.



You are technically correct that Flash is not an approved Internet standard but it is so widely used, it seems to me that it is a de facto standard, nonetheless. Anyway, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Standards exist for a reason, and anyone that builds a foundation on a "de facto standard" as opposed to a legitimate one could have their world turned upside down. And in fact, that's exactly what happened in this case with Apple. Flash is not an approved standard, and Apple's decision to not support it should not affect anyone other than the people that disregarded that simple fact. Don't get me wrong, the current internet standards are horrible, and being a standards-compliant designer and/or developer is not easy...but any time you decide to simply "ignore" the approved standards, you must do so with the knowledge that you are taking a risk.



Finally, you will feel better if you don't get your knickers in a twist every time I express my dismay about Flash support not being available in the iPad. I will no doubt find an opportunity to do it again. In the spirit of comity, I promise not to react whenever you say that Steve Jobs bafflegab rationalization for not enabling Flash in the iPad makes sense.:)

Flash is a tool, and just like any tool it has its uses both good and bad. I have no problems with Flash when it is used to enhance the internet. I do have a problem when Adobe tries to position Flash in a manner that makes the internet dependent on Flash.

gwsat
Jun 16, 2010, 01:33 PM
Agreed and understood...you have every right to express your opinion, as do I. My post wasn't meant to imply otherwise...I just assumed that we had also agreed that since Flash (or lack thereof) on the iPad has nothing to do with the MBA, we were not going continuously go off-topic. However, if you feel that a Flash-enabled iPad is equivalent to an MBA, by all means we can continue to voice our polar opinions here. I think the quality of Flash when running OS X versus Windows is a much more relevant topic though, with respect to the Air.
You have a point. Unfortunately, this thread drifted into iPad territory, which gave rise to the Flash debate raising its ugly head again. I agree that it isn't an issue where the MBA is concerned. As much as I have enjoyed my iPad in many, maybe most, ways, I certainly do not think that Flash support would turn it into the functional equivalent of the MBA. In fact I would wonder what anyone who made such a claim had been smoking.

abriwin
Jun 16, 2010, 02:44 PM
The MBA was thin at one end at least but did that create some of the problems we have seen with overheating?
The iPad is thin and so is the new iPhone so what if there were a new MBA which could be uniformly thin?

The original MBA was a great idea but apparently it has been beset by the following problems:
poor battery life,
overheating,
limited memory
fragile hinges
and last but not least the lack of sufficient ports (usb, firewire, ethernet).

So my thought is this, if Apple could radically redesign the iPhone why could they not do the same with the MBA thus countering all the flack that has been thrown at it? Surely a uniformly thin flat design would be able to have a larger space for a bigger battery, at least one more usb port and an sd slot then there would be lots of happy bunnies queuing up to buy one, wouldn't there? :)

flynz4
Jun 16, 2010, 02:56 PM
The MBA was thin at one end at least but did that create some of the problems we have seen with overheating?
The iPad is thin and so is the new iPhone so what if there were a new MBA which could be uniformly thin?

The original MBA was a great idea but apparently it has been beset by the following problems:
poor battery life,
overheating,
limited memory
fragile hinges
and last but not least the lack of sufficient ports (usb, firewire, ethernet).

So my thought is this, if Apple could radically redesign the iPhone why could they not do the same with the MBA thus countering all the flack that has been thrown at it? Surely a uniformly thin flat design would be able to have a larger space for a bigger battery, at least one more usb port and an sd slot then there would be lots of happy bunnies queuing up to buy one, wouldn't there? :)

It exists already. It's called a 13" MBP.

If you cannot live within the design window of the MBA, then get the appropriate product. Some of us want optimized ultra light weght computers. The last things the mba needs is a larger (i.e. heavier) battery or more ports.

/Jim

pharmx
Jun 16, 2010, 03:11 PM
The MBA was thin at one end at least but did that create some of the problems we have seen with overheating?
The iPad is thin and so is the new iPhone so what if there were a new MBA which could be uniformly thin?

The original MBA was a great idea but apparently it has been beset by the following problems:
poor battery life,
overheating,
limited memory
fragile hinges
and last but not least the lack of sufficient ports (usb, firewire, ethernet).

So my thought is this, if Apple could radically redesign the iPhone why could they not do the same with the MBA thus countering all the flack that has been thrown at it? Surely a uniformly thin flat design would be able to have a larger space for a bigger battery, at least one more usb port and an sd slot then there would be lots of happy bunnies queuing up to buy one, wouldn't there? :)

Since you said the original MBA, I would counter that the current MBA is a much different beast than what was originally introduced....and much better. That being said, limited memory is the only item on your list that I think needs to be addressed in Rev D. Some of the other items (battery, heating, ports) are due to the portability vs. performance trade-off.

In the MBA, better battery should come only when better battery technology is available. Anything that will increase size or weight should not be considered an option, especially since the 13" MBP does that trade-off. As far as ports go, I'm hoping that a couple of LightPeak (or similar tech) ports will go a long way to solving connectivity problems. Having multiple devices simultaneously connected to the MBA was really not part of its design or intended use.

gwsat
Jun 16, 2010, 03:40 PM
The MBA was thin at one end at least but did that create some of the problems we have seen with overheating?
The iPad is thin and so is the new iPhone so what if there were a new MBA which could be uniformly thin?

The original MBA was a great idea but apparently it has been beset by the following problems:
poor battery life,
overheating,
limited memory
fragile hinges
and last but not least the lack of sufficient ports (usb, firewire, ethernet).

So my thought is this, if Apple could radically redesign the iPhone why could they not do the same with the MBA thus countering all the flack that has been thrown at it? Surely a uniformly thin flat design would be able to have a larger space for a bigger battery, at least one more usb port and an sd slot then there would be lots of happy bunnies queuing up to buy one, wouldn't there? :)
It exists already. It's called a 13" MBP.

If you cannot live within the design window of the MBA, then get the appropriate product. Some of us want optimized ultra light weght computers. The last things the mba needs is a larger (i.e. heavier) battery or more ports.
Although, I think there are things Apple could do to improve the MBA, particularly concerning its RAM limitations, overheating, and fragile hinges, it seems to me that there are some things Apple can't really do anything about and have the resulting computer still be an MBA. If Apple thickened the MBA enough to accept RAM slots, multiple ports, and a 10 hour battery, it would weigh 4.5 pounds, just like the 13 inch MBP does, and would have lost the traits that made it the MBA in the first place. The ugly little secret of laptop design is that it is a series of compromises. In the case of the MBA the compromise made to give it its sleek design and light weight also prevented there being enough room within its thin case to accommodate multiple ports and a bigger battery. In short, there is no free lunch.

jdechko
Jun 16, 2010, 04:18 PM
Probably an execs child graduation party:eek:

I think it's Steve's daughter. If I recall, I remember hearing Leo Laporte on MBW say that his daughter and Steve's daughter are the same age and both graduating this year.

Scottsdale
Jun 17, 2010, 12:36 AM
Well, I completely agree with you, PharmX. I have also occasionally missed Flash, but I see the sacrifice as weaning myself away from something bad for the Internet as a whole. Flash is bad for the Internet as a whole. I'm glad Apple has taken a stand. In two or three years, this battle will be won, and we'll all be better off for it.

I also want to say, I love Adobe products. I make my living with them, but they have totally lost my trust. If you want well-written, modern software, you don't want Adobe.

Bri

The point is we should all decide for ourselves, AS CONSUMERS, as to whether we will accept the Flash negatives with the positives. When consumers don't get to decide what to do with the products they buy, the motive of the strategy needs to be examined to see if it's anti-competitive or not. Do you really believe that Jobs was telling the truth about 90% battery loss with Flash on the iPad (how about if Adobe was "allowed" to optimize it")? Do you really think the consumer should have no rights to decide what to do with the products they pay their hard-earned money for? Do you think Jobs was 100% honest about the reasons for his dissing of Adobe and Flash?

Have you ever heard of "follow the money?" It's not just a "saying" that is sometimes true; it's an amazing way to look at business decisions in public corporations; one can easily see how the money is influencing Apple's decision to ban Adobe's Flash by just following the money with a few thoughts of how Apple makes money. Apple's charge-for-all-content model makes more money for Apple. This is a business model, and Flash is competition to the model. Flash technologies provide free content to the consumer by using advertisers to pay for the content costs. Apple doesn't make as much money if people play Flash games rather than buy apps in the App Store. Apple doesn't make as much money when people watch ad-paid content on sites like hulu.com that use Flash for streaming. Plus there's the alternative concept of getting people to buy your product to influence exactly how they spend their money once they "buy-in" to the iOS product model.

Like I have said before, if Jobs stood up and said to all Adobe is their competitor and they will not allow Adobe's Flash on their devices because they compete with Apple's own business model of paid content, I would think 100X more of him. For him to publicly trash Adobe again and again, and ignore the honesty of the "follow the money" reality of Adobe's Flash threatening Apple's business model, is sickening. I am sickened by the level of "trash" talk by an innovative leader who is the man in charge of the most innovative and incredible company in the world. A great public speaker, amazingly gifted innovator, but pathetic leader to trash talk his competitors. It's always a blow below the belt when Jobs trash mentions Adobe or Flash. In addition, lately Apple has taken more and more of the positions we used to see by the "big bad Micro$oft."

In the long run, we're all going to be doing a lot of things different on our Apple products. Apple is acting very anti-competitively, and one of these days the DOJ will decide customers are losing big here. It is going to come back to haunt Apple, because of their ignorance to consider and value their customers' experience and free will to choose what they do with devices they pay Apple obscene amounts of money for. It is the customer that is losing when SJ's blocks Adobe's Flash from iOS products.

The biggest problem with this "debate" is that nobody wants to consider the way these iOS product users are losing out by not having the ability to choose for themselves if they want to use Adobe's Flash. Everywhere there are Apple fans that repeat Jobs every word and act like Adobe's Flash is trash just because SJ's says it is. There are others, like me, who love Apple but realize what Apple is doing here is obvious... we can follow the money and quickly understand the truth about "why" Apple doesn't like Flash. It is obvious that Adobe's Flash threatens the paid content business model Apple is seeking with its iOS products. It is sad that Apple cares so little about its customers to not allow them their own decision as to what they want to do with their Apple products.

I want the Apple computer company back personally. I want Apple to focus on Macs, OS X, and their customers' experience when using their computers. I really hope Apple finds a way to split into two devisions that allows continual efforts of innovation on the Macs and iOS products at the same time. I have been disappointed with Apple's Mac efforts lately. It's obvious that Apple has had "everyone" on iOS and the products that run it. I want an incredible ultraportable Mac notebook that destroys the competition like the v 2,1 MBA did. I want OS X 10.7 to be a focus and feature not put on the backburner behind iOS. I hope Apple learns to keep innovation up on the Mac while it also develops iOS and the products that run iOS. It would be nice if Apple just spent the next year developing OS X and getting Mac computers back up to speed.

robeddie
Jun 17, 2010, 08:04 AM
I really don't think you can say Apple is being 'anti-competetive' by not allowing flash on the iPad.

It's a 'feature' they choose to not allow on their product... if we don't like the fact that it's not there, no one's forcing us to buy it.

You say you want to be 'free to choose' what you want to do with the iPad, well then, let's see:

I want to video chat on it, but the iPad doesn't have a camera, or a way of adding one, is that anti-competitive?

I want to run internet explorer on the iPad, but it can't run windows, is that anti-competitive?

I want another choice of provider for my iPad, but the iPad can only get 3g on AT&T, is that anti-competitive?

If it was that big a deal to people that the iPad or iPhone didn't have flash then they would flop in the marketplace ... but guess what, they're selling them faster (by far) than Apple can make them.

Besides, what's to stop another company from making a slate device that runs flash? Again, if flash was such the big deal, then that product would KILL the iPad when it came to market. Apple certainly isn't somehow stopping another company from doing that - now, if they somehow did that, then THAT indeed would be 'anti-competiive'.

Scottsdale
Jun 18, 2010, 12:20 AM
I really don't think you can say Apple is being 'anti-competetive' by not allowing flash on the iPad.

It's a 'feature' they choose to not allow on their product... if we don't like the fact that it's not there, no one's forcing us to buy it.

You say you want to be 'free to choose' what you want to do with the iPad, well then, let's see:

I want to video chat on it, but the iPad doesn't have a camera, or a way of adding one, is that anti-competitive?

I want to run internet explorer on the iPad, but it can't run windows, is that anti-competitive?

I want another choice of provider for my iPad, but the iPad can only get 3g on AT&T, is that anti-competitive?

If it was that big a deal to people that the iPad or iPhone didn't have flash then they would flop in the marketplace ... but guess what, they're selling them faster (by far) than Apple can make them.

Besides, what's to stop another company from making a slate device that runs flash? Again, if flash was such the big deal, then that product would KILL the iPad when it came to market. Apple certainly isn't somehow stopping another company from doing that - now, if they somehow did that, then THAT indeed would be 'anti-competiive'.

The problem with your argument is you're boldly ignoring the fact that one year before the iPad, 97% of all devices that connected to the Internet had the ability. 97% is a BIG GIGANTIC amount of devices. Basically, the iPhones and BlackBerries, were connected without Flash.

I believe Apple is combining a bunch of strategies that are anti-competitive, and I believe it will add up to repercussions against its anti-competitive behaviors... of which this is one of many that will be acted upon. Also, for Apple to advertise "full Internet in their hands" of iPad users is completely misleading. Many people I know who have bought iPads or used mine didn't realize how "important" Flash capabilities are. Meaning these people have been disappointed and felt that Apple didn't "warn" them that Flash wasn't just advertising and pretty pictures.

It's truly NOT the same as Windows nor IE, as the iPad's abilities are limited by not having the ability to have "full power of the Internet" while the other devices along with Macs have those powers but not the iPad. The problem is the iPad doesn't just exclude the "Flash" software, it excludes the ability to view Flash software.

In addition, Apple is so controlling of the entire platform and controls what people are "ALLOWED" or "PERMITTED" to install on their own iPads. NO OTHER TECH DEVICES ARE LIMITED AGAINST ALLOWING USERS TO DO AS THEY WILL WITH THEIR DEVICES THEY PAID FOR.

The nature of Apple's anti-competitive behavior is part of this "system" of Apple deciding who can and cannot install what they will, and it eliminates companies from making any software or functions they want so users can decide for themselves.

Apple is making gigantic strides in anti-competitive behavior here... I am surprised people don't see the differences. It's a vertical control of every component of the iPad's system... that's the problem! It's completely anti-competitive. Go read a few bits on anti-competitive behavior and the laws meant to prevent vertical control and see what I mean.

robeddie
Jun 18, 2010, 03:52 PM
. NO OTHER TECH DEVICES ARE LIMITED AGAINST ALLOWING USERS TO DO AS THEY WILL WITH THEIR DEVICES THEY PAID FOR.
.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on this.

Apple makes the device, and the software to run it. And yes, they control to an extent what can run on it. YOU KNOW THIS GOING IN ... so when you 'pay for it', you're saying you're ok with that. You know the iPad doesn't run flash, and probably never will. Based on that, buy it don't buy it!

And again, no one is stopping HP from coming out with their 'slate' that runs flash (oh, wait, that's right, they cancelled that project cause the performance sucked).

ANY company could compete with Apple by coming up with their own tablet computer ... so how is Apple being anti-competiive? I just don't get you're logic here.

P.S. by the way, I have a Tivo, and I'm pretty sure that I can't install a different kind of DVR recording software on it... so indeed that's an example of another tech device that limits what I can do with it.

Scottsdale
Jun 18, 2010, 05:37 PM
I guess we'll just have to disagree on this.

Apple makes the device, and the software to run it. And yes, they control to an extent what can run on it. YOU KNOW THIS GOING IN ... so when you 'pay for it', you're saying you're ok with that. You know the iPad doesn't run flash, and probably never will. Based on that, buy it don't buy it!

And again, no one is stopping HP from coming out with their 'slate' that runs flash (oh, wait, that's right, they cancelled that project cause the performance sucked).

ANY company could compete with Apple by coming up with their own tablet computer ... so how is Apple being anti-competiive? I just don't get you're logic here.

P.S. by the way, I have a Tivo, and I'm pretty sure that I can't install a different kind of DVR recording software on it... so indeed that's an example of another tech device that limits what I can do with it.

Sorry, but your Tivo has nothing to do with anti-competitive analogies with Apple, and nothing touches the vertical control by Apple with its iOS software and products. You're still off on HP's Slate too... just because a competitor offers a device with a different OS which might have Flash doesn't mean Apple doesn't act anti-competitively with its iOS software and products.

In addition, Apple's problems are adding up in terms of anti-competitive behavior. It's a problem that will be addressed on multiple fronts sooner or later. It's the way Micro$oft acted before it got itself in trouble, only far worse. The intent here is obvious, and it's not in the best interest of consumers. The choice to do what they want with the products they buy is important. Here we have a vertical problem with Apple.

gwsat
Jun 18, 2010, 06:24 PM
Guys, nothing that I know anything about is more complex than antitrust law. That's why a lot of lawyers specializing in antitrust cases make a lot of money representing clients who claim they were damaged by anticompetitive conduct and a bunch of others make a lot of money by defending the targets of such claims. In short, from this remove, anyone who predicts whether conduct is or is not legally anticompetitive behavior is telling a "tale, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." (Apologies to William Shakespeare.:))

robeddie
Jun 19, 2010, 07:51 AM
I think the frustration comes from what we 'want' the iPad to be and what Apple says it is.

We 'want' it to be full computer, a REAL computer. Apple is basically saying 'no, it's a DEVICE, with limited functionality.'

Apple offers another 'device', the Apple TV, which also is not a 'full' computer.

As far as Apple is concerned, if you want a real computer, with flash and the ability to install what you want on it, you have plenty of choices, including the macbook Air. If you want their 'device' with it's limited, but easy to use functionality, get the iPad.

Now, I do agree that it's annoying ... it would be cool to have an iPad-like item that was a full computer, but that's not what Apple is offering right now. Annoying - yes. Anti-competetive - no (given the fact that they offer plenty of REAL computers).

pharmx
Jun 19, 2010, 05:49 PM
The point is we should all decide for ourselves, AS CONSUMERS, as to whether we will accept the Flash negatives with the positives. When consumers don't get to decide what to do with the products they buy, the motive of the strategy needs to be examined to see if it's anti-competitive or not. Do you really believe that Jobs was telling the truth about 90% battery loss with Flash on the iPad (how about if Adobe was "allowed" to optimize it")? Do you really think the consumer should have no rights to decide what to do with the products they pay their hard-earned money for? Do you think Jobs was 100% honest about the reasons for his dissing of Adobe and Flash?


I am not following your logic at all. How are consumers being prevented from deciding what to do with the products they buy? If you want to use media consumption devices like the iPad as a picture frame to hang up on the wall....you're more than welcome to do that. If instead you want to stream NetFlix videos, listen to music, or surf the internet, the iOS devices let you do all that too. With their hard earned money, consumers can use the devices the way they were designed to be used, or as a beer coaster for all Apple cares. The decision to not support Flash in iOS devices is not the same thing as "telling people what to do" with their devices....in fact, demanding Flash support is exactly like telling Apple how to design their products. Nobody is forced into buying Apple products...consumers have a choice how they want to spend their money, and if Flash support is a requirement, then they are free to purchase a product that meets their needs. If we were talking about something cross platform like Apple's Safari browser...then I could see your point on how it could be considered anti-competitive. But excluding anything from an iOS device (which only runs on Apple hardware) is at Apple's discretion, and the market will decide whether it hurts or helps Apple in the long run, based on what people end up purchasing.


Have you ever heard of "follow the money?" It's not just a "saying" that is sometimes true; it's an amazing way to look at business decisions in public corporations; one can easily see how the money is influencing Apple's decision to ban Adobe's Flash by just following the money with a few thoughts of how Apple makes money. Apple's charge-for-all-content model makes more money for Apple. This is a business model, and Flash is competition to the model. Flash technologies provide free content to the consumer by using advertisers to pay for the content costs. Apple doesn't make as much money if people play Flash games rather than buy apps in the App Store. Apple doesn't make as much money when people watch ad-paid content on sites like hulu.com that use Flash for streaming. Plus there's the alternative concept of getting people to buy your product to influence exactly how they spend their money once they "buy-in" to the iOS product model.

Your "follow the money" analogy actually proves my point instead of yours. The exclusion of Flash has not doomed iOS devices to an early demise, and in fact, their sales seem to be increasing with every new device that gets released. As evidenced by iPad sales, and now iPhone 4, the perception that life without Flash is not an option is slowly fading from people's minds. Seems like plenty of people are willing to give up Flash to own an iOS device...and for those that aren't...they are free to buy alternatives that do promise Flash support, like Android devices.

And I'm not sure where you got the notion that Apple's stance against Flash has to do with competition in the App Store. While web apps have come a long way, they are still nowhere near as capable as native applications. And while there are several popular Flash games out there, the App Store developers creating quality content have nothing to worry about, especially since they can make an identical native app, or even web based one if they prefer, without using Flash. The App Store is successful because it does for mobile applications what iTunes does for music. To see proof of this, compare the Android market to the AppStore. Not only are developers "unrestricted" and "free" to develop in any way they choose on that platform...Flash and Flash-based apps are more then welcome over there. Yet, in spite of all the moaning and groaning over "walled gardens"....App Store developers continue to be more successful than Android developers, not to mention Windows Mobile, Symbian, and other alternatives. So, instead of Apple and the AppStore being threatened by Flash...the exact opposite is happening. Applications that were traditionally Flash-based only are having AppStore versions...the recent announcement of Farmville is a high profile example of this. And I don't even have to go into how big game studios are now starting to take interest, not to mention Nintendo seeing Apple as a threat....any "threat" that Flash apps could have posed are small potatoes under the circumstances.


Like I have said before, if Jobs stood up and said to all Adobe is their competitor and they will not allow Adobe's Flash on their devices because they compete with Apple's own business model of paid content, I would think 100X more of him. For him to publicly trash Adobe again and again, and ignore the honesty of the "follow the money" reality of Adobe's Flash threatening Apple's business model, is sickening. I am sickened by the level of "trash" talk by an innovative leader who is the man in charge of the most innovative and incredible company in the world. A great public speaker, amazingly gifted innovator, but pathetic leader to trash talk his competitors. It's always a blow below the belt when Jobs trash mentions Adobe or Flash. In addition, lately Apple has taken more and more of the positions we used to see by the "big bad Micro$oft."

Jobs is not "trash talking" about Flash, he is stating facts. Flash in its current form sucks for mobile devices...period. Adobe has created some outstanding products, and while some are still great today (like Photoshop), others (like DreamWeaver) are bloated crapware that no longer serve as the best tool for the job, the way they did when they first came out. Flash obviously falls into the latter camp. The way Flash was distributed, and the way Adobe sat on an innovative product once it gained dominant market share, is much more analogous to "big bad Micro$oft" of old. Adobe, and now Google, are the ones using the business tactics of a young MS.


In the long run, we're all going to be doing a lot of things different on our Apple products. Apple is acting very anti-competitively, and one of these days the DOJ will decide customers are losing big here. It is going to come back to haunt Apple, because of their ignorance to consider and value their customers' experience and free will to choose what they do with devices they pay Apple obscene amounts of money for. It is the customer that is losing when SJ's blocks Adobe's Flash from iOS products.


Why wouldn't a company be able to decide how to design their own products? If the DOJ steps in and says Apple "must" support Flash, where will it end? The whole "Mac experience" would vanish as more and more products by any and all companies have to be supported. The whole premise of the Mac experience is that an Apple developed OS is running on Apple designed hardware.


The biggest problem with this "debate" is that nobody wants to consider the way these iOS product users are losing out by not having the ability to choose for themselves if they want to use Adobe's Flash. Everywhere there are Apple fans that repeat Jobs every word and act like Adobe's Flash is trash just because SJ's says it is. There are others, like me, who love Apple but realize what Apple is doing here is obvious... we can follow the money and quickly understand the truth about "why" Apple doesn't like Flash. It is obvious that Adobe's Flash threatens the paid content business model Apple is seeking with its iOS products. It is sad that Apple cares so little about its customers to not allow them their own decision as to what they want to do with their Apple products.


I think your desire for Flash on iOS devices is clouding your logic. Flash was considered problematic before Steve Jobs ever even said a word. There was nothing that could be done about it though since it was already installed on the majority of computers. The only thing Jobs did was be proactive about preventing the same problem from happening in the mobile internet space. And how can you bash him when his decision only affects his own products...Google, Microsoft, Nokia, Motorola, HTC, etc. are all more than welcome to do whatever they wish with their own products.


I want the Apple computer company back personally. I want Apple to focus on Macs, OS X, and their customers' experience when using their computers. I really hope Apple finds a way to split into two devisions that allows continual efforts of innovation on the Macs and iOS products at the same time. I have been disappointed with Apple's Mac efforts lately. It's obvious that Apple has had "everyone" on iOS and the products that run it. I want an incredible ultraportable Mac notebook that destroys the competition like the v 2,1 MBA did. I want OS X 10.7 to be a focus and feature not put on the backburner behind iOS. I hope Apple learns to keep innovation up on the Mac while it also develops iOS and the products that run iOS. It would be nice if Apple just spent the next year developing OS X and getting Mac computers back up to speed.


Well this I can agree with.

I think what you're looking for is an Apple sanctioned, fully BTO product. You want the sleek design of Apple hardware, the intuitive design of Mac OSX, but with no restrictions or limitations. Sadly, that will never happen unless Apple splits into two companies. One would be iOS/OSX focused and cross platform (similar to Android or Windows), while the other would be a hardware manufacturer or maybe even along the lines of, or similar to, Dell/HP, etc. Either way the full Mac experience would never be the same, and Apple would have no advantage over its competitors.

tim100
Jun 21, 2010, 05:10 AM
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/20/sony-vaio-z-gets-core-i7-processor-1920-x-1080-display/

Gruber
Jun 22, 2010, 10:02 AM
It exists already. It's called a 13" MBP.

If you cannot live within the design window of the MBA, then get the appropriate product. Some of us want optimized ultra light weght computers. The last things the mba needs is a larger (i.e. heavier) battery or more ports.

/Jim

Textbook case of Apple Denial Syndrome, huh?
Sony (and a bunch of others by now) have demonstrated that it is indeed possible to build a 13in device with better specs and less weight. The Air still has a lot of air inside (all these edges that add visual thinness are pretty much empty). Also, how much do you think a couple USB and an SD card port would add to the weight?
The 13in MBP is too heavy for a lot of people, and it features an obsolete optical drive which I never use.

Gruber
Jun 22, 2010, 10:14 AM
I think the frustration comes from what we 'want' the iPad to be and what Apple says it is.
(...) Annoying - yes. Anti-competetive - no (given the fact that they offer plenty of REAL computers).

For me, the iPad is replacing the breakfast laptop for morning browsing. To me it feels that Scottsdale is right: The only reason for Apple to exclude Flash (among many other things) is not technical, but to keep competition away from Apple's software cashcows. This is different from other dedicated devices - the iPad is, after all, not a TV or a game console, but an internet consumption device.

The argument to buy a Windows tablet does not really cut it for me, for the same reason as it did not in the Microsoft antitrust cases (customers could have bought Linux, no?). The majority of applications and the best user experience is available not on Windows or Android, but on the iPad/iPhone/iPod. Users want to have Flash in there, and Adobe and many Flash artists want to make it possible. If Apple just believed that Flash was technically inferior, they should let the market decide for the superior offering, instead of their SDK rules.

That said: whether the courts find enough reason to act, and whether such an enactment would be sufficient and helpful to solve the problem is an entirely different matter.

gwsat
Jun 22, 2010, 10:34 AM
Textbook case of Apple Denial Syndrome, huh?
Sony (and a bunch of others by now) have demonstrated that it is indeed possible to build a 13in device with better specs and less weight. The Air still has a lot of air inside (all these edges that add visual thinness are pretty much empty). Also, how much do you think a couple USB and an SD card port would add to the weight?
The 13in MBP is too heavy for a lot of people, and it features an obsolete optical drive which I never use.
The weaknesses you have pointed out about the MBA and the weight of the 13 inch MBP are there. I agree with you that the 13 inch MBP is not a viable substitute for the MBA because it weighs 50 percent more than the MBA. What would you suggest, though, for those of us who want a small computer that runs both Windows and OS X without being hacked? That was a rhetorical question of course. The answer is that no computer other than a Mac can do that.

Scottsdale
Jun 22, 2010, 09:42 PM
For me, the iPad is replacing the breakfast laptop for morning browsing. To me it feels that Scottsdale is right: The only reason for Apple to exclude Flash (among many other things) is not technical, but to keep competition away from Apple's software cashcows. This is different from other dedicated devices - the iPad is, after all, not a TV or a game console, but an internet consumption device.

The argument to buy a Windows tablet does not really cut it for me, for the same reason as it did not in the Microsoft antitrust cases (customers could have bought Linux, no?). The majority of applications and the best user experience is available not on Windows or Android, but on the iPad/iPhone/iPod. Users want to have Flash in there, and Adobe and many Flash artists want to make it possible. If Apple just believed that Flash was technically inferior, they should let the market decide for the superior offering, instead of their SDK rules.

That said: whether the courts find enough reason to act, and whether such an enactment would be sufficient and helpful to solve the problem is an entirely different matter.

For me, I believe it's a compilation of anti-competitive practices that WILL add up to a real problem within two or three years. Apple is acting so badly for consumers right now it's ridiculous. Anyone that has studied antitrust cases can easily see Apple is getting itself into serious problems here. The problem is the line is so fine between going too far. However, this is a no brainer, in three or four different segments of products/software it sells it is going beyond acceptable... it will definitely be taken down. And whether Apple fans like it or not, it's only fair. Apple is acting worse than Microsoft ever did. But in reality, Apple should be trying to leverage its competitive advantages.

Have you ever seen the interview with Bill Gates after M$ lost? He had no clue in the world, because to him it was "fair" competition. M$ did what Apple is doing on a much smaller scale in terms of percentage of costs to its users. Meaning, what M$ was doing was low cost to its users and hurt its competitors terribly. What Apple is doing is high cost to its users and is destroying the established competition and what users want. Apple is truly making its customers pay dearly and unfairly for its competitive advantage. I expect Jobs to say the same types of things Gates said after he lost. It's a game on a tight-walk, but Apple is way past acceptable.

We will have years to talk about this, so there's no point in me continuing to argue this case now against people who say but HP is coming out with a version with Flash so that means Apple isn't doing anything wrong. Common misconception about consumer belief of a non-monopoly. Sorry that's difficult to comprehend but not an easy way to say it. Basically, people think when there's a competitor it's not a monopoly or when there's not a competitor there's a monopoly. Neither is normally true in reality. People use the phone company and say since there's only one phone company in their area that company has a monopoly. Finally, this has NOTHING to do with a monopoly. This is all about Apple being anti-competitive. Consumers and competitors are losing out BIG TIME because Apple is going far beyond the line of acceptable. As always, it takes years to get worked out. There's no point stressing it now, because it will be the number one "debate" on these forums for years to come. We haven't seen anything yet.

pharmx
Jun 24, 2010, 03:38 PM
For me, I believe it's a compilation of anti-competitive practices that WILL add up to a real problem within two or three years. Apple is acting so badly for consumers right now it's ridiculous. Anyone that has studied antitrust cases can easily see Apple is getting itself into serious problems here. The problem is the line is so fine between going too far. However, this is a no brainer, in three or four different segments of products/software it sells it is going beyond acceptable... it will definitely be taken down. And whether Apple fans like it or not, it's only fair. Apple is acting worse than Microsoft ever did. But in reality, Apple should be trying to leverage its competitive advantages.

Have you ever seen the interview with Bill Gates after M$ lost? He had no clue in the world, because to him it was "fair" competition. M$ did what Apple is doing on a much smaller scale in terms of percentage of costs to its users. Meaning, what M$ was doing was low cost to its users and hurt its competitors terribly. What Apple is doing is high cost to its users and is destroying the established competition and what users want. Apple is truly making its customers pay dearly and unfairly for its competitive advantage. I expect Jobs to say the same types of things Gates said after he lost. It's a game on a tight-walk, but Apple is way past acceptable.

We will have years to talk about this, so there's no point in me continuing to argue this case now against people who say but HP is coming out with a version with Flash so that means Apple isn't doing anything wrong. Common misconception about consumer belief of a non-monopoly. Sorry that's difficult to comprehend but not an easy way to say it. Basically, people think when there's a competitor it's not a monopoly or when there's not a competitor there's a monopoly. Neither is normally true in reality. People use the phone company and say since there's only one phone company in their area that company has a monopoly. Finally, this has NOTHING to do with a monopoly. This is all about Apple being anti-competitive. Consumers and competitors are losing out BIG TIME because Apple is going far beyond the line of acceptable. As always, it takes years to get worked out. There's no point stressing it now, because it will be the number one "debate" on these forums for years to come. We haven't seen anything yet.

Maybe you should clarify your definition of anti-competitive then, since we clearly don't understand it the same way.

If you want to talk about how Apple positions the App Store...I could see your point if you wanted to call them "anti-competitive" since it would affect other similar entities by Android, Windows, and other mobile application marketplaces.

If you want to talk about how Apple leverages iTunes to gain an advantage with online music distribution...then I could see your point about them being "anti-competitive" since it would affect other online music distribution channels.

And now with iBooks, if you want to talk about Apple being "anti-competitive" with how they influence publishers, etc. I could see your point since it affects companies like Amazon.

But the inclusion/exclusion of Flash, and how it affects Adobe, is not the same thing as how Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. are being affected by the situations above. And whether or not Apple's stance on Flash affects consumers is not by itself "anti-competitive". Lumping everything together is confusing to say the least, and misleading. Steve Jobs should not have made claims like "the whole internet in your hands" when Flash is a big part of the internet, I will agree with you 100% on that point. But he is just doing what he does best...making people believe that they need products that they never even wanted before...as well as make people realize that they don't need products that they thought they couldn't live without before.

Does Apple engage in anti-competitive practices? I dunno, but can definitely see how their content distribution channels could be used to do so.