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VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 05:41 PM
Ok i really need to say this:

Dear Steve, you have proven to be a very bright mind, so you should be more than aware of the fact that we, the Pro consumers segment, have a different set of needs and behavior, compared to the the average "home/individual" consumers you serve. We are not (only) driven by the hype of the latest cool device in town, or the actions of trend-setters... no, we actually make budget plans and forecasts in order to buy new hardware.

We love Macs, we even depend on Macs, but we not only LIKE them, we actually NEED them, so we can get some work done.

As individual consumers, we can afford the wait. We actually love it, the whole drama and suspense around it; as individual consumers, we can do fine with our current hardware until the next big thing hits the market; we're just concerned about having to delay the showing-off of our new iPhone 4 to your friends for the next two weeks. no biggie; but pro-sumers.... man we need our stuff, and we need it ASAP.

If the main focus of the company (Apple) is now deviated from us pro users, to the trend-setting "gadgeteers", and now everything revolves 100% on gadgets such as iPads, iPhones and iPods, it would be advisable to use a different, parallel and completely divorced strategy for us Pro consumers; in other words, dear Steve:

WE NEED TO KNOW IF THE NEW MAC PRO IS COMING OUT OR NOT, AND IF SO, WHEN WILL IT BE RELEASED.
I love Macs, always have, and probably always will, but i just can't afford this enigma anymore.

Pro gear is for people with schedules, keep the suspense for the people who can afford it.



Marty Macfly
Jun 7, 2010, 05:42 PM
You're not in the target market for a Mac Pro if you're "losing" work by not having the newest one.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 05:47 PM
You're not in the target market for a Mac Pro if you're "losing" work by not having the newest one.

I'm losing work because i sold equipment and made buying plans based on the availability of new Mac Pro's by June.

Don't just jump into conclusions that easily.

Marty Macfly
Jun 7, 2010, 05:49 PM
I'm losing work because i sold equipment and made buying plans based on the availability of new Mac Pro's by June.

Don't just jump into conclusions that easily.

You jumped to the conclusion that new Mac Pros would be available when Apple gave you absolutely no indication thereof and has historically never given you any information of point updates to existing products. :rolleyes:

What evidence did you have that a new Mac Pro would be available at WWDC other than the availability of Gulftown chips? Historically, chip availability has meant nothing to the Mac Pro line.

rajbonham
Jun 7, 2010, 05:50 PM
I'm losing work because i sold equipment and made buying plans based on the availability of new Mac Pro's by June.

Don't just jump into conclusions that easily.

Why would you form plans around a product that no one knows the release date of? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense. If you sold your equipment already, you have no one to blame but yourself...

Giganova
Jun 7, 2010, 05:51 PM
You're not in the target market for a Mac Pro if you're "losing" work by not having the newest one.

?
I don't understand what that means. I am in the pro video/film business and I need VERY fast machines to edit HD footage. I've been waiting for an update of the MacPro for months now because I need more processing power to edit and render feature-length movies. On a current tricked-out MacPro, rendering my current movie takes 8 hours -- WAY too long and it can only be done over night, which means that I lose precious (and expensive) time.

So yes, professionals DO lose money by Apple delaying -- again -- the release of an updated MacPro (which hasn't been updated for more than a year).

It is a GREAT disappointment for me that Apple continues to focus on the consumer market (iPad and iPhone, both contents consumption gear) and neglects the professionals (contents creation).

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 05:52 PM
Methinks the OP needs to reconsider the reasons he classifies as a "pro." his actions suggest the goals of an enthusiast.

Marty Macfly
Jun 7, 2010, 05:53 PM
So yes, professionals DO lose money by Apple delaying -- again -- the release of an updated MacPro (which hasn't been updated for more than a year).

How is it a delay when it was never announced? The Mac Pro has always taken over a year to update, as well.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 05:58 PM
You jumped to the conclusion that new Mac Pros would be available when Apple gave you absolutely no indication thereof and has historically never given you any information of point updates to existing products. :rolleyes:

It's been 462 days since the last Mac Pro update (the Average on the last 8 years has been 236 days) so that's twice the time they "historically" update this particular product.

The point of this thread is exactly that: Pro consumers deserve to have RELIABLE time frames.

This product (Mac PRO... noticed the "PRO" in it?) is for work, is not a matter of trends or fashion; if you don't get it, then you are just posting on the wrong thread, my friend.

Rhalliwell1
Jun 7, 2010, 06:00 PM
I'm losing work because i sold equipment and made buying plans based on the availability of new Mac Pro's by June.

Don't just jump into conclusions that easily.

Intel has said there is a short term shortage of Gulftown chips. Why on earth would you sell your machines?

?
I don't understand what that means. I am in the pro video/film business and I need VERY fast machines to edit HD footage. I've been waiting for an update of the MacPro for months now because I need more processing power to edit and render feature-length movies. On a current tricked-out MacPro, rendering my current movie takes 8 hours -- WAY too long and it can only be done over night, which means that I lose precious (and expensive) time.

So yes, professionals DO lose money by Apple delaying -- again -- the release of an updated MacPro (which hasn't been updated for more than a year).

It is a GREAT disappointment for me that Apple continues to focus on the consumer market (iPad and iPhone, both contents consumption gear) and neglects the professionals (contents creation).

The cost of running your computers for 8 hours over night is all part of your job and the costs that are included in it. The new Mac Pros are not going to reduce this by too much. I bet you will still render over night.

Marty Macfly
Jun 7, 2010, 06:00 PM
It's been 462 days since the last Mac Pro update (the Average on the last 8 years has been 236 days) so that's twice the time they "historically" update this particular product.

The point of this thread is exactly that: Pro consumers deserve to have RELIABLE time frames.

The average on the Buyer's Guide is fallacious and irrelevant as the Mac Pro is not dependent on PowerPC chip launches. The first Mac Pro and the second Mac Pro were released 518 days apart, and the gap between the second and third is similar to the current gap.

Your reliable time frame is "over a year between releases". Your time frame is based on Intel's creation of chips, nothing more. If you dislike the time between updates, take it up with Intel first.

Giganova
Jun 7, 2010, 06:01 PM
Why would you form plans around a product that no one knows the release date of? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense. If you sold your equipment already, you have no one to blame but yourself...

I agree that selling equipment based on a rumor is not a wise move ;), but if you look at the release history of the MacPro product line, you will see that an update is long overdue. I have set aside money for a new MacPro months ago because I urgently need it for my business, and Apple still keeps me waiting, forces me to work on relatively slow machines and doesn't allow me to work more efficient.

I think it is clear that Apple decided a while ago to focus more & more on consumers than on professionals for which there is ample of evidence (e.g., still no BlueRay support, slower updates of their pro line of gear, slower updates of their pro software, etc).

If they keep focusing on product consumption, I might be forced to switch to a PC. I hate the idea but a feeling creeps inside me that I can longer afford to postpone. If you go to a pro film maker forum you'd be surprised how many people are pissed by Apple and how they are switching to PCs in droves!

macuserx86
Jun 7, 2010, 06:01 PM
The Mac Pro is probably at an end

Apple just needs to sell OS X as a standalone operating system. They can keep making laptops, but an OS X for system builders would be nice.

Rhalliwell1
Jun 7, 2010, 06:03 PM
The Mac Pro is probably at an end

Apple just needs to sell OS X as a standalone operating system. They can keep making laptops, but an OS X for system builders would be nice.

That will never happen.

Burnincoco
Jun 7, 2010, 06:04 PM
It doesn't matter if he made plans thinking a new MacPro would be announced today. Don't bash the guy!

The fact is that we've been waiting too long and we didn't get what a lot of us wanted today. so.. FRAK YOU Apple, Frak you in the bite on your apple.
:apple: C===B

Giganova
Jun 7, 2010, 06:10 PM
The cost of running your computers for 8 hours over night is all part of your job and the costs that are included in it. The new Mac Pros are not going to reduce this by too much. I bet you will still render over night.
No true: If a client wants to see changes in his movie (that I create for him) and it would take 5 hours instead of 8 or 10, I could send him the update the same day instead of the next day. That make a BIG difference if you run a business.

iSpoody 1243
Jun 7, 2010, 06:14 PM
wow, your silly!
without a doubt the mac pro and imac will be updated before the ipod september event.
yet the mac mini and macbook air it really looks like they will be held out till next year. Seems like apple have better things to do than put an insignificant bump on a product that will need a big overhaul soon.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 06:15 PM
Methinks the OP needs to reconsider the reasons he classifies as a "pro." his actions suggest the goals of an enthusiast.

Gosh you guys are fast on judging people! ja!

Techhie... one can be a "pro", an "enthusiast", or a little bit of both; but a masters degree and over 17 years of Marketing experience have taught me that as consumers, the purpose and application for each buy defines the particular motivations, and triggers different rational or emotional reactions regarding it.

I'm both, i Use a Mac Pro on a Recording Studio, and everything else (MacBook Pro, iPhone, iPad, iPhone) in the emotionally-driven enthusiast role you are implying i exclusively belong.

My decision was rational and based on facts; instead of getting the Nahalem i decided to wait, and been waiting for months now. and now im not happy. is that simple.

Rhalliwell1
Jun 7, 2010, 06:15 PM
No true: If a client wants to see changes in his movie (that I create for him) and it would take 5 hours instead of 8 or 10, I could send him the update the same day instead of the next day. That make a BIG difference if you run a business.

Yes, but, if the technology doesn't allow it then thats just part of the costs of running a business. I can understand that a newer Mac Pro would somewhat decrease this cost but i wouldn't say the lack of an update is costing you.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 06:16 PM
The average on the Buyer's Guide is fallacious and irrelevant as the Mac Pro is not dependent on PowerPC chip launches. The first Mac Pro and the second Mac Pro were released 518 days apart, and the gap between the second and third is similar to the current gap.

Your reliable time frame is "over a year between releases". Your time frame is based on Intel's creation of chips, nothing more. If you dislike the time between updates, take it up with Intel first.

Intel's new chip has been around for over a month. Thanks.

Giganova
Jun 7, 2010, 06:26 PM
Yes, but, if the technology doesn't allow it then thats just part of the costs of running a business. I can understand that a newer Mac Pro would somewhat decrease this cost but i wouldn't say the lack of an update is costing you.

I agree. However, Apple is going to great lengths to push technologies for consumer devices and I cannot say that I see a big effort on their part to do the same for professionals (both software and hardware).

Don't you think there's a clear trend emerging that Apple sees it future in the contents consumption market instead of the contents creation segment? It used to be the other way round. Apple products used to be the weapon of choice for people in the creative business segments (ad agencies, graphics designer, movie makers, etc) but I see more & more professionals who are forced to leave Apple because they have no other choice (especially in terms of pro software).

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 06:27 PM
I agree that selling equipment based on a rumor is not a wise move ;)

Is not like a whole factory stopped because of this particular sell... i just sold an early 2008 Mac Pro, early enough to hold most of its value, and hoping to wait no more than 2 months to get the new one, which is said to be much more energy efficient, yet more powerful, so i think that's actually a smart move ;)

i'm still good until the end of June, after that i would have to consider what to do if the update is rumored as late as October

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 06:29 PM
I agree. However, Apple is going to great lengths to push technologies for consumer devices and I cannot say that I see a big effort on their part to do the same for professionals (both software and hardware).

Don't you think there's a clear trend emerging that Apple sees it future in the contents consumption market instead of the contents creation segment? It used to be the other way round. Apple products used to be the weapon of choice for people in the creative business segments (ad agencies, graphics designer, movie makers, etc) but I see more & more professionals who are forced to leave Apple because they have no other choice (especially in terms of pro software).

100% with you on this one.

ValSalva
Jun 7, 2010, 06:37 PM
I agree. However, Apple is going to great lengths to push technologies for consumer devices and I cannot say that I see a big effort on their part to do the same for professionals (both software and hardware).

Don't you think there's a clear trend emerging that Apple sees it future in the contents consumption market instead of the contents creation segment? It used to be the other way round. Apple products used to be the weapon of choice for people in the creative business segments (ad agencies, graphics designer, movie makers, etc) but I see more & more professionals who are forced to leave Apple because they have no other choice (especially in terms of pro software).

Maybe Apple should start making Windows tools for building iApps because it appears they are conceding the high end desktop to Microsoft, sad to say.

Rhalliwell1
Jun 7, 2010, 06:39 PM
I agree. However, Apple is going to great lengths to push technologies for consumer devices and I cannot say that I see a big effort on their part to do the same for professionals (both software and hardware).

Don't you think there's a clear trend emerging that Apple sees it future in the contents consumption market instead of the contents creation segment? It used to be the other way round. Apple products used to be the weapon of choice for people in the creative business segments (ad agencies, graphics designer, movie makers, etc) but I see more & more professionals who are forced to leave Apple because they have no other choice (especially in terms of pro software).

Oh yes. Of course. They're a business, they're following the money. Steve Jobs said at the All Things Digital Conference that he see's computing now entering into the 'post PC era' with things like iPad and iPhone. I know you can debate on weather a Mac Pro is a PC as it isn't intended for personal use. But if you think of PC as a form factor, you generally think of a tower, at least i do.

I completely disagree with people who say the Mac Pro is dead. It isn't. In fact i think the Mac Pro will be the last to go in this transition to 'post PC.' It's going to be a long time until something of an upcoming form factor can replace the power of those beasts.

The reason, i believe, the Mac Pros are late on the refresh this time round is due to the chip shortage that intel has spoken of. I also think it is bizarre to expect a Mac Pro to be announced at a developer conference. Some developers use Mac Pros, but its not their intentional use.

It's for these reasons i don't understand how the OP could be so convinced that he would sell his current machines. I just don't get that.

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 06:40 PM
My decision was rational and based on facts; instead of getting the Nahalem i decided to wait, and been waiting for months now. and now im not happy. is that simple.

No, it's not that simple. Professionals do not sell their workstations for the chance of a slightly faster machine, nor can they go without a machine for as long as you have. When you sell your primary method of income based on a probability, you do not classify as a pro, or at least not a sensible one.

"Pro" is a very general term, but most here would classify you as an enthusiast because you obviously do not rely on the machine for sustenance.

deconstruct60
Jun 7, 2010, 06:40 PM
?
On a current tricked-out MacPro, rendering my current movie takes 8 hours -- WAY too long and it can only be done over night, which means that I lose precious (and expensive) time.


And you have been constantly loosing money over the last 2-3 years because MacPro were just toooooo slow.? There is a difference between you can make more money (and perhaps increase profits) and not making any money at all. If the current machines are "horrible" then nobody was making money with them last year. There doesn't seem to be much evidence to back that up.


Similarly if you need a render farm if decreased render times bring a disproportionate amount of increased profits. It may be necessary to have more than one computer. For example if competitive bid times required a substantive decrease in hours in turn-around-time. If just have a farm of 2-3 nodes you can tick-tock them so that one gets updated at a time. In some cases, it is better to have 3 more modestly priced boxes that give 12 cores than one very expensive box with 12. 3 may add up to a higher cost but if time if that extremely valuable it is worth it.

There is big difference between "it would be nice to render faster" and "there is huge economic difference if render faster".



It is a GREAT disappointment for me that Apple continues to focus on the consumer market (iPad and iPhone, both contents consumption gear) and neglects the professionals (contents creation).

There isn't even that dichotomy. The new MacBook was introduced with no press relase. Not only not a big show, but not even a peep on the press release. The mac mini sat in doldrums for a long extended period.

It looks like Safari 5 is dropping today. Again nary a peep in the main big dog and pony show today. At some point Apple has enough stuff to talk about over a broad range that can't put it all into major production dog and pony shows.

So there is a difference between what Apple's focus is on and what the content of the hype sessions are.

The Mac Pro is late but only by a couple of months if measure with a 365 day window. Apple is a bit distracted, but not particularly any more than over the last decade or so. It is a tad more noticeable now because bigger and have wider product range to dolt over.

Icaras
Jun 7, 2010, 06:41 PM
People, let's not get back into this whole "Pro" argument again. Whatever business the OP may having wanting to purchase a Mac Pro is really, strictly his/her own. He has every right to complain just as the next "pro" does because in the end, the dollar goes to the very same company, so I really don't see why we should sit here and bicker about his/her particular demographic and why it should concern Apple or us.

cs4160
Jun 7, 2010, 06:47 PM
If we are on honest about it, we really have all the MAC evangelists and fanboys (most of us on this forum) to blame. Apple goes where the money is. Clearly we have not bought enough over priced MP's, nor sold the benefits to our PC friends, to make a difference.

In fact, to go one further, i blame the health craze (and my wife). If we put less emphasize on exercise, i wouldnt need to buy mobile devices, i could just sit my fat ass at home and look at my 30 inch ACD with the MP that should have been released 8 months ago...damn it...:mad:

Consultant
Jun 7, 2010, 06:50 PM
I'm losing work because i sold equipment and made buying plans based on the availability of new Mac Pro's by June.

Don't just jump into conclusions that easily.

Bull. Professionals don't sell equipment based on rumors and speculations.

Buy another one, unless of course your work isn't worth all that much?

Rhalliwell1
Jun 7, 2010, 06:52 PM
If we are on honest about it, we really have all the MAC evangelists and fanboys (most of us on this forum) to blame. Apple goes where the money is. Clearly we have not bought enough over priced MP's, nor sold the benefits to our PC friends, to make a difference.

In fact, to go one further, i blame the health craze (and my wife). If we put less emphasize on exercise, i wouldnt need to buy mobile devices, i could just sit my fat ass at home and look at my 30 inch ACD with the MP that should have been released 8 months ago...damn it...:mad:

I like your Theory. :)

-SD-
Jun 7, 2010, 07:03 PM
I'm rather flabbergasted you'd sell your main workstation hoping that an updated machine would be released this week. Madness.

:apple:

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 07:04 PM
People, let's not get back into this whole "Pro" argument again. Whatever business the OP may having wanting to purchase a Mac Pro is really, strictly his/her own. He has every right to complain just as the next "pro" does because in the end...

...

Bull. Professionals don't sell equipment based on rumors and speculations.

Buy another one, unless of course your work isn't worth all that much?

Bingo.

Icaras
Jun 7, 2010, 07:06 PM
...

Convenient that you you stopped my quote right there. I'm pretty sure sentences don't end with "because..."

deconstruct60
Jun 7, 2010, 07:06 PM
Is not like a whole factory stopped because of this particular sell... i just sold an early 2008 Mac Pro, early enough to hold most of its value,


A machine that is being used on a business basis is deprecated over time. In other words, the machine pays for itself over time (if running a profitable business). If have been using the machine to make money then its cost is down close to zero when chuck it. If it has not dropped, then it is peculiar how you can afford to go on "work vacation" for a couple of months.

Selling off early to get a slightly higher price of on old version is highly indicative that the machine wasn't making money. For this to be a rational move the early sell off "profit" would have to be substantively higher than the profit of using the machine to do work. If work jobs would bring in more money than the very small delta selling early would bring, then this is a extremely dubious move.

There is only a relatively small amount to be made by selling before a new product release. Especially on Mac Pros (and other higher end equipment). The prices don't completely crater overnight. Additionally, with Apple occasionally nuking features folks like, the price might even slightly jump up ( e.g., killing off firewire ports prematurely). The refurb prices don't tank right after an announcement either and those come with more warranty protection than anything you sell off.


Nevermind that a professional cut-over would involve bringing up the new machine along side the old one to make sure that new set up works properly because decommissioning the old box. If there is any software glitch because of the new device you are even more royally screwed because don't have a fallback system. It is like throwing away first tape of a multiple tape backup set before have completely finished the restore.

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 07:10 PM
Convenient that you you stopped my quote right there. I'm pretty sure sentences don't end with "because..."

point is: there are obviously many types of professionals, but he doesn't have the same right to complain if his work means so little to him that he has the ability to arbitrarily sell his primary workstation.

Giganova
Jun 7, 2010, 07:12 PM
And you have been constantly loosing money over the last 2-3 years because MacPro were just toooooo slow.? There is a difference between you can make more money (and perhaps increase profits) and not making any money at all. If the current machines are "horrible" then nobody was making money with them last year. There doesn't seem to be much evidence to back that up.

My argument is: if Apple would put more effort into supporting professional products (both hard and software), professionals could make more money because they could run their business more effectively. If I had a faster MacPro -- which Apple could without doubt have release months ago if they had decided to throw more resources into this direction -- I could run my business better. Instead, they develop and support their consumer segment with much more resources, neglecting the pro segment. Hence my disappointment today -- again.

The original post had one good argument that got completely ignored here: While it it might be "fun" and "excitement" for most consumers to have rumors and then sudden and unannounced product releases, professionals would like to be able to plan ahead and budget for their next investment. Businesses would benefit if Apple would at least give an estimate when new products are being launched. I know a ton of people who have been waiting for months now for a new MacPro ... is it June? Is it October? That's not healthy for businesses if they cannot plan ahead and budget their investments accordingly. Businesses shouldn't have to rely on rumors and sudden, unanticipated product releases that they need to get their job done.

A lot of people are in a real dilemma for months now: should they wait for an updated MacPro, running the risk that they will invest in hardware that will be outdated a days of weeks later (I once bought a MacBook Pro and within the two days I took to ship it to me a new and faster model was released!), or hold back their investment hoping that a new product will be releases soon? Professionals need a schedule to plan and budget.

deconstruct60
Jun 7, 2010, 07:24 PM
Convenient that you you stopped my quote right there. I'm pretty sure sentences don't end with "because..."

No it is telling that he stopped it there. It is followed by a quote that the main point here is not him (or anyone else ) transferring money to Apple, but about doing work on the machine transferring money to him.

if machine machine doesn't make him money, it actually makes less difference to Apple when they deliver the machine. One, two, three, months late... what is the difference to someone if going to pull the money out of an income stream that does not depend upon the machine being present or not and is locked into MacOS X. As you were trying to assert, that demographic of person is going to hand over the money anyway. Growth in that demographic gives Apple all the more reason not to be in a hurry to drop something.

Between the growth in that and the very conservative that keep Pros/Displays till they hit the legacy category before upgrading.... there isn't much push for Apple to rush something out the door. Nevermind, the series of hiccups they had with the 2009 version getting corrected this past year. Going faster doesn't sound like it is going to increase quality.

reel2reel
Jun 7, 2010, 07:31 PM
The original post had one good argument that got completely ignored here: While it it might be "fun" and "excitement" for most consumers to have rumors and then sudden and unannounced product releases, professionals would like to be able to plan ahead and budget for their next investment. Businesses would benefit if Apple would at least give an estimate when new products are being launched. I know a ton of people who have been waiting for months now for a new MacPro ... is it June? Is it October? That's not healthy for businesses if they cannot plan ahead and budget their investments accordingly. Businesses shouldn't have to rely on rumors and sudden, unanticipated product releases that they need to get their job done.

A lot of people are in a real dilemma for months now: should they wait for an updated MacPro, running the risk that they will invest in hardware that will be outdated a days of weeks later (I once bought a MacBook Pro and within the two days I took to ship it to me a new and faster model was released!), or hold back their investment hoping that a new product will be releases soon? Professionals need a schedule to plan and budget.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this way of thinking. Do you think a new Mac Pro is going to save your life? Your career depends on hardware that doesn't exist yet? What on earth are you doing? How do you think people are working right now and making money with such "old" machines? What is a new Mac Pro going to do that you can't do now???

Seriously.

reel2reel
Jun 7, 2010, 07:33 PM
?
I don't understand what that means. I am in the pro video/film business and I need VERY fast machines to edit HD footage. I've been waiting for an update of the MacPro for months now because I need more processing power to edit and render feature-length movies. On a current tricked-out MacPro, rendering my current movie takes 8 hours -- WAY too long and it can only be done over night, which means that I lose precious (and expensive) time.

So yes, professionals DO lose money by Apple delaying -- again -- the release of an updated MacPro (which hasn't been updated for more than a year).

It is a GREAT disappointment for me that Apple continues to focus on the consumer market (iPad and iPhone, both contents consumption gear) and neglects the professionals (contents creation).

You need to re-evaluate your workflow then. Somehow, I don't think any computer will ever be fast enough for you.

reel2reel
Jun 7, 2010, 07:36 PM
Gosh you guys are fast on judging people! ja!

Techhie... one can be a "pro", an "enthusiast", or a little bit of both; but a masters degree and over 17 years of Marketing experience have taught me that as consumers, the purpose and application for each buy defines the particular motivations, and triggers different rational or emotional reactions regarding it.

I'm both, i Use a Mac Pro on a Recording Studio, and everything else (MacBook Pro, iPhone, iPad, iPhone) in the emotionally-driven enthusiast role you are implying i exclusively belong.

My decision was rational and based on facts; instead of getting the Nahalem i decided to wait, and been waiting for months now. and now im not happy. is that simple.

Your decision tells me only that you're not very busy. If rendering speed is your only selling point, maybe you should learn some new skills.

macuserx86
Jun 7, 2010, 07:44 PM
That will never happen.

I can dream can't I? :rolleyes:

GiantDolphin
Jun 7, 2010, 07:48 PM
point is: there are obviously many types of professionals, but he doesn't have the same right to complain

Same right to complain? Who are you to arbitrate who has the right to complain? Give me a break. Get back to work and quit wasting professional time making posts which have no hope of monetary gain.

deconstruct60
Jun 7, 2010, 07:57 PM
professionals would like to be able to plan ahead and budget for their next investment. Businesses would benefit if Apple would at least give an estimate when new products are being launched.

This ignores two realities.

First "osborne effect". Tell folks too early and everyone stops buying. Unless it is part of some bundled, integrated system stack buy, then need more lead time to line all the ducks up (but that is only to the folks building the stack not necessarily to the end customers). However, no big corporation is going to give a locked in date that is more than a quarter out. It has to do with protecting what they they promise (but cannot necessarily deliver on due to external factors) and trying to unduly manipulate forward looking guidance.

Second, it is not like it is a secret. Once a year you can get a new Mac Pro. Been true for almost a decade now. What more info do you need? Unless the money is in some kind of "use it or loose it" status two-three months later just means incur the bill two-three month later. Having the bill come due earlier would be more of a problem than later.
That is exactly why the Mac Pros should move to the roughly every 12 months schedule the XServe has been drifting to. That way it is a widely shared secret, but Apple doesn't have to explicitly promise. If it just happens then it is predictable without trumpets blaring.

Likewise, the price has been held relatively constant. The new ones cost as much as the old ones did. If you budgeted that way what problem would you have run into over the last 2-4 iterations ? Very little.

What is more critically missing is when things are going to be retired. There is no reason to keep that secret. They can also extend that date without pissing off anyone or unduly tweaking financial guidance. What is missing in the "upgrade" planing is knowing 1-2 years in advance when Apple is going to officially nuke your box. Furthermore, that is far more under Apple's control (as oppose to launches when perhaps using a "new" part and its available has some unexpected bubble). On top of that Apple knows in advance when the date is because they pick it. If you know retirement dates and have a "buy and use for years" strategy you can plan when going to move up. You move up when the windows says and don't worry about trying to "game" upgrades cycle to absolutely maximum delta on upgrade. If wait a couple of years you are typically defacto guaranteed to get a big bump.

Explicit retirement dates and consistent behavior on pricing and frequency of announcements (across a year like timeframe) would make things easy to plan.

It is only the "spec" chasers who have to know the exact date every single year.

deconstruct60
Jun 7, 2010, 08:03 PM
Same right to complain? Who are you to arbitrate who has the right to complain?

Same right to complain == is in same demographic. Folks in different demographics can have different complaints. However, can't claim rights to complain from someone else's demographic than your own.

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 08:05 PM
Same right to complain? Who are you to arbitrate who has the right to complain? Give me a break. Get back to work and quit wasting professional time making posts in a forum that have no hope of monetary gain.

Don't give me the self-assured "who are you to..." lecture, his (lack of) complaint legitimacy should be obvious from his previous posts. I do not dictate who gets to assume the "pro" status, as it's subjective, but selling a primary workstation at the mere suggestion of an update makes you an enthusiast, not a pro. Professionals depend on their workstations for income, and if he was able to get rid of it so easily, there was not much value in the machine. You are right, I'm not an arbitrator, but I know that the people who earn paychecks from these "outdated" boxes wouldn't risk an undetermined amount of time without them for a speedbump. The update is overdue, but professionals are not suffering any more with minutely slower render times than they would in months without a machine.

By the way, I'm not and never claimed to be a professional, I'm a 17-year-old high school student.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 08:23 PM
No, it's not that simple. Professionals do not sell their workstations for the chance of a slightly faster machine, nor can they go without a machine for as long as you have. When you sell your primary method of income based on a probability, you do not classify as a pro, or at least not a sensible one.

"Pro" is a very general term, but most here would classify you as an enthusiast because you obviously do not rely on the machine for sustenance.

Gosh you are persistent... to be more specific, i meant "Pro" in terms of the type of use; pro in this case, means not primarily for PERSONAL use (this machine is used in a recording studio, and is not the only machine around), so, the fact that i do not rely on this only machine to get things running (which you just assumed i did) proves that you are just making assumptions since the beginning; you've been insisting on labeling me as a "enthusiast" while the real purpose of this thread was to express that this type of machines are not intended primarily for PERSONAL use, so the update's time frames should behave differently; you just don't know (nor is your business) how many other Machines do i own, and you are just assuming i stopped working because i sold that early 2008 mac pro... you insist on calling me an "enthusiast" because i actually sold that computer partly considering some info given on this very own community "buyer's guide", you are focusing on the personal, non-relevant aspects of my thread, and seriously, i haven't seen you making any actual contribution to the subject i'm bringing up; if you don't get the point by this far, you just don't relate, and that's fine, but many others have, so thanks, maybe there's a bunch of other posts here were you could be actually helpful.

adamwc
Jun 7, 2010, 08:30 PM
I have an early 2008 Mac Pro. I use it exclusively for video editing, which is my sole source of income. I'm able to edit multiple streams of ProRes HD footage (FCP) and finish (Color) and output (Compressor, DVDSP) without hiccups. However, I would like to be able to do this faster. Motion hiccups with 16gb of RAM and fast RAIDS. One hungry app!

I usually skip Mac Pro generations, so I'm waiting for what Apple comes up with next. I hope that the next MacPro has whiz-bang equivalent in my content-creation world to what Apple is putting out with the iPod/iPad. Mostly, I want bigger pipes, more bandwidth and more data processing power so that renders don't take as long and workflow is more responsive.

That said, I'm incredibly happy with the performance of my machine. The fact that this machine is paying for itself over and over again is, in a word, fanf-ckingtastic.

I do fear that Apple cares less about the Pro market, but I'm not surprised either. Apple wasn't the best performing stock of the last decade because of sales of FCP and Mac Pros. I'm so accustomed to the elegance of Apple's interface, I can't imagine ever leaving. So far, I have no compelling reason to. But my eyes are open. If superior options emerge on other platforms, I'll migrate. Won't stop me from continuing to use the iPad/iPhone and a Macbook Pro, too.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 08:34 PM
People, let's not get back into this whole "Pro" argument again. Whatever business the OP may having wanting to purchase a Mac Pro is really, strictly his/her own. He has every right to complain just as the next "pro" does because in the end, the dollar goes to the very same company, so I really don't see why we should sit here and bicker about his/her particular demographic and why it should concern Apple or us.

1- Should concern Apple since i'm a customer for practically ALL Apple products. All of them. High end Desktops, High end Laptops, phones, iPods, iPads, Software. All of it. So if they don't care about me, would they care about you Icaras?

2- This is an Apple Community, and i posted this on a Apple Mac Pro section of the Forum, a place that exist because people like me care about this type of things; if you are not particularly interested, you just said it: i have the right to complain, or as i prefer to put it, EXPRESS MY OPINION.

If you don't care, feel free to waste your time some place else, thanks.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 08:41 PM
Bull. Professionals don't sell equipment based on rumors and speculations.

Buy another one, unless of course your work isn't worth all that much?

Obviously you are not bright enough to think about the possibility that i do not rely on that single machine to get the job done. Now you are insulting my work. insinuating it might be worthless? what place is this?

"Buy another one"? please don't tell me what to do. You go and buy an 18 month old, decaying MP... that's a brilliant advice, hope you are not a tech consultant.

cohen777
Jun 7, 2010, 08:43 PM
I was expecting a new Mac Pro with a six core chip. Apple can focus all they want on the consumer/toy market, but they can't forget about about the high end "pro" user either. WWDC and the other big Mac conferences (MacWorld) are about making a splash with new hardware. Hopefully, we'll here an announcement tomorrow. Also, missing from the big keynote are the expected improvements on the high end apps like Final Cut Studio.

Octobot
Jun 7, 2010, 08:49 PM
It's coming sooner or later.. and everyone here will chill out.
-

2contagious
Jun 7, 2010, 08:57 PM
Is there no way Apple might update the Mac Pro over the next few days at WWDC? What's the next possible update time? :(

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 08:57 PM
Gosh you are persistent... to be more specific, i meant "Pro" in terms of the type of use; pro in this case, means not primarily for PERSONAL use (this machine is used in a recording studio, and is not the only machine around), so, the fact that i do not rely on this only machine to get things running (which you just assumed i did) proves that you are just making assumptions since the beginning;

If the Mac Pro is not powerful enough for your tasks, one wouldn't think that any of your others could act as a viable replacement.

We need to get some work done, keep the suspense for the people who can afford it.

Apparently you can, considering you sold your workstation.

We are not (only) driven by the hype of the latest cool device in town, or the actions of trend-setters... no, we actually make budget plans and forecasts in order to buy new hardware.

Making a budget plan does not consist of selling the current machine used for income at the suggestion of an update.

but pro-sumers.... man we need our stuff, and we need it ASAP.

No, you only need a new machine now because you sold your last one. Your well-being isn't dependent upon a rendering speed increase of few seconds. Prosumers are exactly that, consumers who buy professional-grade equipment for a purpose OTHER than making a living off of them. Why else would there be a distinction between prosumer and pro?

If the main focus of the company (Apple) is now deviated from us pro users, to the trend-setting "gadgeteers", and now everything revolves 100% on gadgets such as iPads, iPhones and iPods, it would be advisable to use a different, parallel and completely divorced strategy for us Pro consumer

The main focus of Apple was NEVER pro users, they have always been a niche market. True that the recent focus has shifted even more to the "i" market, but It seems like you are not being devastated by the effects of this partial neglect.

I don't mean to get personal, but making complaints as if you depend on the machine is annoying to people who realistically make their paycheck from the machines (again, not me). If you can afford to sell the machine, then you can afford to wait.

lemonade-maker
Jun 7, 2010, 08:57 PM
I wanted a bike for Xmas but all I got was a hotwheel set. Not fair.

telequest
Jun 7, 2010, 09:00 PM
I for one sympathize with anyone frustrated with waiting for the next Mac Pro update. Being kept in the dark by the company on which you depend for core technology for your business is not a positive situation. Apple's commitment to the pro market remains an open question. I'm hoping the next release will be soon and will reaffirm that commitment.

If the 2009s had been as good a deal as the 2008s, there'd probably be fewer complaints about waiting for the 2010s. Obviously they're powerful machines and I'll buy one (either 2008 or 2009, refurb or used most likely) if my next job requires one before the 2010s are available.

But c'mon, no need to rag on the thread starter for being tired of waiting - even if you might question selling machines before replacements are for certain available. Fine if that's not a choice you would make, but please skip the bit about whether someone is a "pro" or not. We're all different, but all in the same boat - we'd all benefit from more predictable releases.

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 09:02 PM
But c'mon, no need to rag on the thread starter for being tired of waiting - even if you might question selling machines before replacements are for certain available.

I think we are just tired and irritable after another disappointment ;)

Icaras
Jun 7, 2010, 09:07 PM
1- Should concern Apple since i'm a customer for practically ALL Apple products. All of them. High end Desktops, High end Laptops, phones, iPods, iPads, Software. All of it. So if they don't care about me, would they care about you Icaras?.

I never said anything about Apple not caring about you or a particular demographic, VirtuallyReal.

2- This is an Apple Community, and i posted this on a Apple Mac Pro section of the Forum, a place that exist because people like me care about this type of things; if you are not particularly interested, you just said it: i have the right to complain, or as i prefer to put it, EXPRESS MY OPINION.

If you don't care, feel free to waste your time some place else, thanks.

You mean, just like how you're wasting time on these forums too, right?

Anyway, I also never said you had less or more right to complain than the OP or the next guy. Really don't understand why your taking my post personal. I simply stated that the OP has just about every right to complain and "care" about things just as you do. Yes?

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 09:08 PM
Your decision tells me only that you're not very busy. If rendering speed is your only selling point, maybe you should learn some new skills.

before quoting, check who you are quoting. i never said i'm the the video editing industry.

Someone else's is, not me.

And again, stop questioning skills, stop trying to make this general concern become a personal matter; is not about my decision to sell my old Mac Pro and how accurate or not that decision was; is not about this other guy's need of more rendering power... this post is about our concern on the fact that is Apple applying the a similar launch strategy for PRO and consumer products. Period.

telequest
Jun 7, 2010, 09:09 PM
I think we are just tired and irritable after another disappointment ;)

I can relate to that. So let's try some solidarity in the meantime even if we feel like snarling. Let's snarl at Apple, not each other. :)

bocomo
Jun 7, 2010, 09:15 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't understand this way of thinking. Do you think a new Mac Pro is going to save your life? Your career depends on hardware that doesn't exist yet? What on earth are you doing? How do you think people are working right now and making money with such "old" machines? What is a new Mac Pro going to do that you can't do now???

Seriously.

+1

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 09:18 PM
point is: there are obviously many types of professionals, but he doesn't have the same right to complain if his work means so little to him that he has the ability to arbitrarily sell his primary workstation.

i Have the right to do whatever i want, and for the 11th time, WHO TOLD YOU THAT WAS MY PRIMARY WORKSTATION? this is getting very annoying.

Point is: if you think you are so much more "professional" than the rest of us, if you think i have "lesser right" to express my opinion, and if you are so happy with Apple's current launching periods for the PRO segment, then what are you doing here? go and create an "i'm so happy because i have to wait until October to get my new Mac Pro" Thread

... or maybe you just work @ Apple? if so, you should be thankful for us giving you this kind of input, as your paycheck might come out of MY pocket.

notabadname
Jun 7, 2010, 09:20 PM
Wow, I can't believe how people are so eager to judge and make determinations of the OP's statement and profession. I think it is pretty arrogant to determine what makes another person a "professional".

engaged in a profession or engaging in as a profession or means of livelihood

it need not be your sole source of income and you may only "dabble" in it, yet you can still be a professional. I, like the OP, am frustrated by what many would say is a lengthy delay in the update process for the Mac Pro. I consider myself a "professional" user of the Mac Pro but am obviously an enthusiast or I wouldn't be posting on this site. I too work in videography and am eager for an update and am frustrated as well. I only take projects when it suits my schedule around my other, primary income. But, by virtue of being paid for my work, it is legitimate to say I am a professional. Apple's reluctance to update its "Pro" line adequately (which I consider to include Final Cut as well as the Mac Pro) to support blu-ray is disappointing and impacts my business. I have a desire to provide an HD deliverable product on blu-ray, authored natively on a Mac with Mac software. Yes there are other options, but they cost more, because switching to Adobe products would break my upgrade path and associated savings. It is reasonable for a poster to be frustrated with Apple, and feel that Apple's reluctance, or slowness, to upgrade its professional product line may be costing them money. Unless you have access to my finances (Google or Facebook employee anyone?), who would any poster be to judge another's determination of what is costing their own business money. Apple was at one time considered (at least IMO) the de-facto platform for creative "professionals" (there's that word again) in the graphics, imaging, film and videography industry. Now we have Apple, a "blu-ray" supporter, still currently listed here: http://us.blu-raydisc.com/ , that still doesn't actually support blu-ray. The last time they updated the large-format 30" ACD was over 3 years ago. Zero options to get a blu-ray in my Mac from Apple, yet I can get it from Acer? are you kidding me? Is that the creative industry leader many of us became so enamored with?

So yes, Apple's upgrade pace can impact my income, as well as my own business decisions in anticipation of those upgrades. I truly find it hard to believe any poster here hasn't "held off" a purchase or upgrade decision in anticipation of a hardware or software update. And the best way to get a better price on hardware is to sell it before its replacement obsoletes or devalues it. Let's face it, they update a telephone like clockwork every year, reliably and predictably. Yet they make no priority or fanfare really about the Mac Pro that is used to create what was once the core of their business / pro user. I too am annoyed.

bocomo
Jun 7, 2010, 09:27 PM
Wow, I can't believe how people are so eager to judge and make determinations of the OP's statement and profession. I think it is pretty arrogant to determine what makes another person a "professional".



i think it is due to the whiny nature of the original post, coupled with the "sold it based on rumors/guesses" routine

Grimace
Jun 7, 2010, 09:33 PM
It's a developer's conference, not a conference for new products. While you may be concentrating on the keynote, there is a whole week of development workshops.

atomwork
Jun 7, 2010, 09:34 PM
I feel your pain. Apple is way to slow in updating their product "Pro" line. It would be nice to pass along updated chips and graphic cards on a quarterly base or as they come available. Good would be a build-to-order system that really offers more in depth upgrades. Even the graphic card options are pathetic.

Their last MBP update was a disappointment. Using a code duo i5 and i7 chips was a smack in the face. Mobile power? Where? It's 3x slower then an "outdated" MacPro... Based on other available configurations in the industry.

But I understand apple. by selling the same old technology over and over they make the most cash. If they would upgrade the machines they lose out on money.

But who cares!!! Apple is now a "mobile" company. Jam packed stores. No more need for the pros ;) Let's face it. 90% cash doesn't come from pro gear. Otherwise Apple could have bought Adobe to sell more Pro gear.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 09:46 PM
If the Mac Pro is not powerful enough for your tasks, one wouldn't think that any of your others could act as a viable replacement.



Apparently you can, considering you sold your workstation.

AGAIN, I NEVER SAID I RELY ENTIRELY ON THAT ONE AND ONLY COMPUTER.

Making a budget plan does not consist of selling the current machine used for income at the suggestion of an update.

WHO SAID THIS IS EVEN THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF INCOME I HAVE?


No, you only need a new machine now because you sold your last one. I DON'T NEED A NEW MACHINE AND NO, I WON'T DIE IF STEVE DECIDES TO LAUNCH THE NEXT MAC PRO IN 2012, THAT DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN, BECAUSE I DO.

Your well-being isn't dependent upon a rendering speed increase of few seconds. Prosumers are exactly that, consumers who buy professional-grade equipment for a purpose OTHER than making a living off of them. Why else would there be a distinction between prosumer and pro?
AT LAST, ONE THING WE AGREE, ALTOUGH IS IRRELEVANT FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD


The main focus of Apple was NEVER pro users, they have always been a niche market. True that the recent focus has shifted even more to the "i" market, but It seems like you are not being devastated by the effects of this partial neglect.TRUE. PISSED OF, BUT NEVER DEVASTATED :)

I don't mean to get personal, but making complaints as if you depend on the machine is annoying to people who realistically make their paycheck from the machines (again, not me). WRONG HERE. THEY ACTUALLY APPRECIATE THAT I JOIN THEIR CONCERN ON THIS MATTER!

If you can afford to sell the machine, then you can afford to wait.I CAN AFFORD WHATEVER I DECIDE TO, THAT'S NOT THE SUBJECT HERE, WHAT CAN I OR CANNOT AFFORD, THE SUBJECT HERE IS: WHY THE WAIT? THE ANSWER REMAINS ON THE "i" SEGMENT: iPAD JUST CAME OUT, NOW THE iPHONE 4... MAYBE THEY'RE JUST "SPACING" BETWEEN LAUNCHES

Thanks Techhie to clear things out; at some point it did started to look personal :)

TMRaven
Jun 7, 2010, 09:46 PM
It is hard to not totally blow off a guy's rant and self-proclaimed "professionalism" when he sells his own top-dollar machine based on only rumors of a possible refresh. No guy in his right mind who depended on his machine to make a living would take such a risk, and I personally highly doubt the people he works for would care so much for slightly increased render times-- seeing that mac pro is already super fast in terms of video encoding, and a good majority of pro markets still rely on ppc macs in their studios.

I'm not going to attack the guy's professionalism, because I have no reason not to believe him, but it's not below me to say it was a rather dumb move to sell his "income" based on only speculation. To me the whole notion screams more like an enthusiast move rather than a sensible move which someone's job depended on.

Oh well, live and learn.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 09:51 PM
I never said anything about Apple not caring about you or a particular demographic, VirtuallyReal.



You mean, just like how you're wasting time on these forums too, right?

Anyway, I also never said you had less or more right to complain than the OP or the next guy. Really don't understand why your taking my post personal. I simply stated that the OP has just about every right to complain and "care" about things just as you do. Yes?

Icaras, just so you know, i'm the OP.
And im not wasting time here; i started this thread to express my opinions and see if others relate, thanks.

notabadname
Jun 7, 2010, 09:57 PM
i think it is due to the whiny nature of the original post, coupled with the "sold it based on rumors/guesses" routine

I just read the post again. I just don't see "whiny". Frustrated, yes. Annoyed that we can't get an update on a product as high-end as the Mac Pro, but we all knew there would be a new iPhone announced this month last August?

What I certainly don't see are any comments by the OP that anyone else should "learn some new skills", "you do not classify as a pro, or at least not a sensible one", "the OP needs to reconsider the reasons he classifies as a "pro.", "Bull. Professionals don't sell equipment based on rumors and speculations. or stating that someone "doesn't have the same right to complain".

So much for the Apple community being supportive and open minded. I am starting to see the "arrogant" part that PC users claim to be true Apple users.

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 09:58 PM
Thanks Techhie to clear things out; at some point it did started to look personal :)

I don't want to be the guy shouting "troll!," but some of your replies seem laughable.

We could go on all day, but obviously you are going to "express yourself" regardless of the venue or the thoughts of the forums you claim to regard.

Far be it from me to dictate where/when you make a fool of yourself.

Icaras
Jun 7, 2010, 09:59 PM
Icaras, just so you know, i'm the OP.
And im not wasting time here; i started this thread to express my opinions and see if others relate, thanks.

Ah, sorry, I was not paying attention really. Anyway, why the negativity? I was originally trying to defend your original post? Whether you are pro or not, your dollar means just as much to Apple as a professional's.

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 10:02 PM
So much for the Apple community being supportive and open minded. I am starting to see the "arrogant" part that PC users claim to be true Apple users.

I think people are overshooting the distinction between users and pros. This is not a "what does it mean to be human?" question of abstraction. There is a pretty solid line dividing them. I'm not saying where that line is, as others have pointed out, its not my place to say, however it must be noted that there is a line and most people fall on either side of it.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 10:03 PM
i think it is due to the whiny nature of the original post, coupled with the "sold it based on rumors/guesses" routine

i have the right to say it, if you think i was "whining" well that's your interpretation. i stated the FACT that pro gear is falling behind, update-wise.

And the whole "sold it based on rumors/guesses routine" of that particular machine doesn't mean it is my ONLY resource for income. the only ones making a "guessing routine" here are the ones implying that i'm dumb enough to sell the only source of all my income... that's not even my primary source of income.

notabadname
Jun 7, 2010, 10:03 PM
Ultimately, the Apple Store says it all about the priority of the Mac Pro. The ones I have been in, all seem to have just a single Mac Pro, in the back corner of the store. I usually never have to wait to demo it either. It simply is not a focus anymore.

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 10:15 PM
And the whole "sold it based on rumors/guesses routine" of that particular machine doesn't mean it is my ONLY resource for income. the only ones making a "guessing routine" here are the ones implying that i'm dumb enough to sell the only source of all my income... that's not even my primary source of income.

Then why do you continually suggest a NEED for the update, and how you can't afford the wait? We wouldn't have assumed the urgency unless it was suggested. I'm just confused here, because you keep jumping between "needing" the Mac Pro and being non-relaint on it.


We love Macs, we even depend on Macs, but we not only LIKE them, we actually NEED them, so we can get some work done.

but pro-sumers.... man we need our stuff, and we need it ASAP.


WE NEED TO KNOW IF THE NEW MAC PRO IS COMING OUT OR NOT, AND IF SO, WHEN WILL IT BE RELEASED, because business people just can't just sit and wait.

I love Macs, always have, and probably always will, but i just can't afford this enigma anymore.

We need to get some work done, keep the suspense for the people who can afford it.

notabadname
Jun 7, 2010, 10:22 PM
I think people are overshooting the distinction between users and pros. This is not a "what does it mean to be human?" question of abstraction. There is a pretty solid line dividing them. I'm not saying where that line is, as others have pointed out, its not my place to say, however it must be noted that there is a line and most people fall on either side of it.

But we and the OP are usually the best judges of our own use. If you make money, even if not your principle income, as in my case, you are using the computer professionally. I could sell my Mac tomorrow and go without for a few months while waiting for the upgrade. During that time, I would not do any professional work, but that does not mean my prior Mac or my future Mac were not used professionally, or that I am not a "real" professional. I would still consider myself a professional photographer and a professional videographer, it simply is not my only profession, or my principal profession. The OP has stated so many times that he did not sell all of his revenue generating capability, and that it was not his only income source (just the opposite actually). So, while the line you speak of may be real, I view it more like a bar to jump over. And that bar to be a legitimate professional in any trade can be pretty low to get over. And I only mean in the sense, you either get paid or you don't. It is incorrect to assign a quantity to the bar. Paid or not. Simple. Some do their profession as a singular profession and get paid a little or a lot. Some do it on the side and get paid a little or even a lot, but still don't consider it their primary income. Some posters here however seem to feel they have ownership to the definition of what makes someone's work or business "Professional". If someone doesn't do it as much as they do, or make as much as they do, then they are not a "real" professional. That is the arrogance, and the tone, of many of the replies to the OP's first comments, which were directed only at Apple.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 10:25 PM
I don't want to be the guy shouting "troll!," but some of your replies seem laughable.

We could go on all day, but obviously you are going to "express yourself" regardless of the venue or the thoughts of the forums you claim to regard.

Far be it from me to dictate where/when you make a fool of yourself.

This post was never intended to be controversial; i just said what i needed to say. you started the whole "who's Pro and who's not" approach; sorry but if that makes someone look like a fool, is not me.

You were a baby when i got my first Mac, yet you were so eager to dictate weather i'm a "Pro" or not, and you made assumptions on weather that machine is my "only source of income" or not, which i never said it was...

Again, i don't care how much it takes, i will not fall in debt or starve to death if the new Mac Pro hit the stores in 2012... apparently you don't even have a Mac Pro, yet you are on the first row, judging us who know what we're talking about, based on experience, not only opinions.

Laughable replies? please read your own.

I appreciate your "interest" on this thread, but if you stop posting now, that would be much more appreciated.

I've been polite enough to reply to you posts. i think it's been enough. Thanks.

Vylen
Jun 7, 2010, 10:35 PM
No.. please... keep arguing... I'm sure you two can keep it up till the new Mac Pro is released :P

VirtuallyReal
Jun 7, 2010, 10:54 PM
No.. please... keep arguing... I'm sure you two can keep it up till the new Mac Pro is released :P

LOL!!

Seriously, i never meant this to become an argument... sorry guys, all i needed to say has been said, i'm apparently not the only one feeling frustrated about Apple's Pro hardware update schedule.

Thank's everyone for your various opinions (even you, young Josh ;) )

johnnymg
Jun 7, 2010, 11:04 PM
I'm losing work because i sold equipment and made buying plans based on the availability of new Mac Pro's by June.

Don't just jump into conclusions that easily.

I'm calling you out as a troll here and now. Go away ~~~~~~ :mad:

nanofrog
Jun 7, 2010, 11:06 PM
Intel has said there is a short term shortage of Gulftown chips. Why on earth would you sell your machines?
That article has been misunderstood (was about the distrubutor market, not the direct market, where large vendors buy directly from Intel).

If you look at other vendors, they're able to build CTO systems with hex core parts (Gulftown SP and DP systems), and ship in a week.

Apple has been a direct buyer from Intel since the introduction of Intel based Macs, so there's no supply problems.

Apple just needs to sell OS X as a standalone operating system. They can keep making laptops, but an OS X for system builders would be nice.
They'd have to exit the computer side all together (MP, XServe, iMac, Mini and laptop systems combined) before they'd even think about it. And that's not likely in the near future (if ever, as they'd then have to deal with a lot more hardware in the validation phases of the development process, and if the market share was large enough, security would become a much harder aspect to deal with as well, just as it currently is for Microsoft when it comes to Windows).

Don't you think there's a clear trend emerging that Apple sees it future in the contents consumption market instead of the contents creation segment? It used to be the other way round. Apple products used to be the weapon of choice for people in the creative business segments (ad agencies, graphics designer, movie makers, etc) but I see more & more professionals who are forced to leave Apple because they have no other choice (especially in terms of pro software).
Content delivery and the devices to consume the content is the market where the money currently is though, compared to the computer side.

Being kept in the dark by the company on which you depend for core technology for your business is not a positive situation. Apple's commitment to the pro market remains an open question.
This is highly unusual for the enterprise market (workstations and servers). No other vendor does this, and especially not Intel. But Intel's information isn't adequate for MP and XServe users to base their upgrade strategies on (planning phases).

It's a developer's conference, not a conference for new products. While you may be concentrating on the keynote, there is a whole week of development workshops.
I see the content distribution and content consumption devices as what WWDC is being focused on, as it's where the money is. They want to attract software developers to create content for their devices, and then sell it through their store.

Win-win for Apple, and the market is definitely there. As the computer systems aren't the primary means of content consuption (comparitively speaking for Apple's products = largest chunk of profits), they've been left out.

UltraNEO*
Jun 7, 2010, 11:16 PM
LOL @ OP!
I'm calling you out as a troll here and now. Go away ~~~~~~ :mad:

+1

gri
Jun 7, 2010, 11:27 PM
That will never happen.

Hell already froze over once and pigs DID fly (Intel switch):rolleyes:

Techhie
Jun 7, 2010, 11:41 PM
Thank's everyone for your various opinions (even you, young Josh ;)

I guess this is what I get for revealing my age on forums. :rolleyes: From now on, I am as ageless as time....or the ever enigmatic nanofrog :p


Apple has been a direct buyer from Intel since the introduction of Intel based Macs, so there's no supply problems.

This needs to be stickied :rolleyes:


Win-win for Apple, and the market is definitely there. As the computer systems aren't the primary means of content consuption (comparitively speaking for Apple's products = largest chunk of profits), they've been left out.

It's a kind of forced-nostalgia to 2006, when Steve excitedly claimed screamed "zomg 3.0 GHZ guyz!" ;):D:p

foidulus
Jun 8, 2010, 12:43 AM
you are ignoring pretty much one of the fundamental laws of computing(and economics for that matter), demand ALWAYS scales with capacity.

By your arguments you could say that we should all be content with 1984-era Macs, because, after all, there has been no reduction in the amount of work they could do.

While that argument is admittedly a bit of a straw man you see my point. HD video and near real-time editing is now becoming the baseline instead of the exception and more and more powerful computers are needed to meet the increased demand.

Not to mention that with the economy professionals now need to be more adaptable than ever. If your 2009 mac pro renders a complex edit in 8 hours while your competitor, a windows user with a brand new Dell, can do it in 6, who do you think the customer is going to choose? Which editor will be able to take on more work, the one who can do things close to the bleeding edge or the one who says "2-year old technology is good enough!"

Hint, it's not the latter.

Apple is abandoning it's pro market, and there may come a day when Apple needs that market again but it simply won't be around anymore because Apple decided consumer devices were infinitely more important. However consumer electronics customers are notoriously fickle, just because Apple has a hit today doesn't mean they will still have one tomorrow.

PeterQVenkman
Jun 8, 2010, 12:58 AM
No, it's not that simple. Professionals do not sell their workstations for the chance of a slightly faster machine, nor can they go without a machine for as long as you have. When you sell your primary method of income based on a probability, you do not classify as a pro, or at least not a sensible one.

"Pro" is a very general term, but most here would classify you as an enthusiast because you obviously do not rely on the machine for sustenance.

Semantics. Was it smart? Probably not. Unless there is a list somewhere of what professionals do and do not do in the course of their lives that I've missed.

I would say making a mistake makes him human, much like the rest of us. How many of us professionals have seen our bosses do very, VERY stupid things? ;)

I'm calling you out as a troll here and now. Go away ~~~~~~ :mad:

Ummm, didn't he start the thread? If you don't like someone, don't spend time over at their house.

macuserx86
Jun 8, 2010, 01:43 AM
you are ignoring pretty much one of the fundamental laws of computing(and economics for that matter), demand ALWAYS scales with capacity.

By your arguments you could say that we should all be content with 1984-era Macs, because, after all, there has been no reduction in the amount of work they could do.

While that argument is admittedly a bit of a straw man you see my point. HD video and near real-time editing is now becoming the baseline instead of the exception and more and more powerful computers are needed to meet the increased demand.

Not to mention that with the economy professionals now need to be more adaptable than ever. If your 2009 mac pro renders a complex edit in 8 hours while your competitor, a windows user with a brand new Dell, can do it in 6, who do you think the customer is going to choose? Which editor will be able to take on more work, the one who can do things close to the bleeding edge or the one who says "2-year old technology is good enough!"

Hint, it's not the latter.

Apple is abandoning it's pro market, and there may come a day when Apple needs that market again but it simply won't be around anymore because Apple decided consumer devices were infinitely more important. However consumer electronics customers are notoriously fickle, just because Apple has a hit today doesn't mean they will still have one tomorrow.

You're assuming that the quality of work is exactly equal and that speed is the only factor in getting work.

There's a middle ground here.

richim
Jun 8, 2010, 01:51 AM
Enough of this rubbish, I did exactly the same as the OP, I sold my machine back in December thinking an update would be coming between January-March.

At the time, it seem perfectly reasonable to assume an update by March, indeed everyone I know in the industry expected that to occur.

Yes I am a professional and needless to say I deeply regret that decision now and had no idea it would take anywhere near as long as 7 months (and still going).

foidulus
Jun 8, 2010, 02:04 AM
You're assuming that the quality of work is exactly equal and that speed is the only factor in getting work.

There's a middle ground here.

What makes you think that the choice of an operating system affects quality? The tools on Windows are as good as those on Macs for the most part.

I didn't explicitly mention quality because it was implied, if two professionals of similar quality go head to head the one who is faster and more nimble wins the work every time.

Man-Droid
Jun 8, 2010, 02:19 AM
I totally empathize with the OP. That's all I have say about that. :)

chrono1081
Jun 8, 2010, 02:22 AM
The point of this thread is exactly that: Pro consumers deserve to have RELIABLE time frames.


100% impossible in the computer field. Seriously this is impossible.

To make a computer you have to rely on technology being created by other companies. Those companies have to research, develop, and produce the technology so that the computer companies can utilize it.

If Apple can not get the processors they need due to a shortage (which is happening now) then they can't release the product. So, people in the "pro" industry need to be aware of that and adjust accordingly.

This goes for every single computer manufacturer not just apple.

THX1139
Jun 8, 2010, 02:36 AM
?... On a current tricked-out MacPro, rendering my current movie takes 8 hours -- WAY too long and it can only be done over night, which means that I lose precious (and expensive) time...[/I]).

Most pros don't rely on a single machine for their precious projects. They edit and then off load to a render farm. At the minimum, you could set up a cluster of minis and render independently of your edit machine. But of course, since you are a "pro" you already knew that. Right?

The current shipping Mac pros can handle pretty much anything you throw at them. If you're having trouble, that just means you have been trying to get by on the cheap.

vonMarion
Jun 8, 2010, 02:52 AM
Regardless of what WE need, Apple seriously needs to update the Mac Pro for it's own benefit, or give the public information on what is happening. I spoke for an extended period of time with the manager at an Apple store in one of the biggest malls in the world, and he told me that in the past month, only 3-4 mac pros were sold at that location that he was aware of.

it would seem everyone is just waiting for an update, and many people are just deciding to buy the 27" iMac, rather than wait and decrease productivity.

I'm more than willing to put forth $3,000 on a Mac Pro, but for the same price as it was 1 year ago, and with an update imminent, no way. At least if Apple said "Hey guys, we're cooking up something, but don't expect it until september or even December," I could then make the educated decision to buy the current model, rather than simply cross my fingers from week to week. I'm an adult dammit! Treat me like one Apple.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 04:09 AM
I'm more than willing to put forth $3,000 on a Mac Pro, but for the same price as it was 1 year ago, and with an update imminent, no way. At least if Apple said "Hey guys, we're cooking up something, but don't expect it until september or even December," I could then make the educated decision to buy the current model, rather than simply cross my fingers from week to week. I'm an adult dammit! Treat me like one Apple.

Exactly. I agree 100%.

Apple is the unprofessional here.

ValSalva
Jun 8, 2010, 04:33 AM
it would seem everyone is just waiting for an update, and many people are just deciding to buy the 27" iMac, rather than wait and decrease productivity.

Maybe this is Apple's intent now :(

pianojoe
Jun 8, 2010, 07:09 AM
Now, if I were in need of speed, I would just get me another MP and set up a qMaster cluster. Problem solved.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 8, 2010, 07:31 AM
I'm calling you out as a troll here and now. Go away ~~~~~~ :mad:

You are a MBP user... you are not even a MP user, i wonder what are you doing here. My point remains: it is an inconvenience to wait this long for the update; again, if you don't relate to the issue, your opinion is marginal. don't get mad, and feel free to go away anytime, starting, say, now.

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 07:35 AM
You are a MBP user... you are not even a MP user, i wonder what are you doing here. My point remains: it is an inconvenience to wait this long for the update; again, if you don't relate to the issue, your opinion is marginal. don't get mad, and feel free to go away anytime, starting, say, now.

I recommend that you buy a PC if you are so dependent on frequent updates. Apple has never... ever... updated their professional desktop line in a manner that someone would equate to the word 'quickly'.

I'm serious here, go buy a PC. You don't seem to want a Mac.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 07:39 AM
I recommend that you buy a PC if you are so dependent on frequent updates. Apple has never... ever... updated their professional desktop line in a manner that someone would equate to the word 'quickly'.

I'm serious here, go buy a PC. You don't seem to want a Mac.

Iīm sure many will go out and buy a Windows 7 PC. And actually some have already in my circles.

Apple doesnīt clearly care about the pro market anymore.

Sad sad says for Apple. In fact they should change their name to iApple or iToys or something.

lemonade-maker
Jun 8, 2010, 07:44 AM
You are a MBP user... you are not even a MP user, i wonder what are you doing here. My point remains: it is an inconvenience to wait this long for the update; again, if you don't relate to the issue, your opinion is marginal. don't get mad, and feel free to go away anytime, starting, say, now.

Seems far more inconvenient to be without a computer which you rely on for cash-flow. If I sold any of my computers/servers that are required to earn, my business would tank. I have the budget and when the next pro arrives, I will purchase it. Why get disappointed and say it isn't fair because you were unable to budget?

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 07:52 AM
In fact they should change their name to iApple or iToys or something.

January 8, 2007: Apple Computer Inc.
January 9, 2007: Apple Inc.

They already have. They stopped caring about computers three years ago.

Topper
Jun 8, 2010, 07:59 AM
January 8, 2007: Apple Computer Inc.
January 9, 2007: Apple Inc.

Yep, I think there is a clue there someplace. :(

VirtuallyReal
Jun 8, 2010, 08:03 AM
You are a MBP user... you are not even a MP user, i wonder what are you doing here. My point remains: it is an inconvenience to wait this long for the update; again, if you don't relate to the issue, your opinion is marginal. don't get mad, and feel free to go away anytime, starting, say, now.

LOL @ OP!


+1

Enough with the attempts of making this a personal matter; if you guys have something relevant and valuable to share, other that personal attacks to me, you are more than welcome.

I feel much better now, seeing that A LOT of MP users here feel the exact same way that i feel.

If you think it through, this is wrong in some many levels. Here we are, a bunch of guys with thousands of dollars in our hands, so desperate to throw them at Steve's pocket, and he seems not even interested... while others are struggling to get a tiny bit of our attention... i'm in love with Mac, they are so great, we all are in love with Macs, but that doesn't justify us being treated this way. Here we are, hoping. Begging. That's just not the way it was meant to be.

DualShock
Jun 8, 2010, 08:05 AM
Dear Steve,

WTF

Sent from my Mac Pro

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 08:08 AM
Dear Steve,

WTF

Sent from my Mac Pro

Hahahah! Good one! :D

VirtuallyReal
Jun 8, 2010, 08:13 AM
I recommend that you buy a PC if you are so dependent on frequent updates. Apple has never... ever... updated their professional desktop line in a manner that someone would equate to the word 'quickly'.

I'm serious here, go buy a PC. You don't seem to want a Mac.

2009 Mac Pro's are not as reliable as 2008 Mac Pro's, hence the need for a "quick" update; i decided to skip the 2009's, that's why i'm waiting for the 2010. If YOU like PC's, go buy one.

Don't come to a Mac forum and tell people "buy a PC". I've been using Macs for over 15 years now, i think i don't need your unsolicited advise, thanks, i know what i want, i want a new Mac Pro, a way better one than the 2009 Nahalem. And i want it ASAP. I think we all deserve it.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 08:35 AM
I think Apple has decided to take a one year break from Mac Pro and focus all itīs energy to all the iToys (iPad, iPhone4). So the next Mac Pro release will probably be not until January 2011.

Sucks big time, but what can you do. Of course weīll never know, maybe they have killed Mac Pro production all together, anything is possible. But anyway, thatīs my take on it.

belvdr
Jun 8, 2010, 08:36 AM
For the love of Mike, can't you put this in one of the many other threads?

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 08:37 AM
I'm sorry, but this is nothing but another wasteful thread spouting nonsense based on no solid information.

It's true that Apple doesn't care as much about computers as they once did, but you have no information as to the release date, so it would be prudent for you to wait, just as everyone else is.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 08:38 AM
For the love of Mike, can't you put this in one of the many other threads?

I think the facing of this hard reality needs itīs own thread. :)

Whoīs Mike?

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 08:39 AM
I think the facing of this hard reality needs itīs own thread. :)

Would you kindly show us the official information from Apple, Intel, or any of the manufacturing firms that make the Mac Pro that state your supposition as a reality?

I am still highly doubtful that this post required its own thread.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 08:41 AM
Would you kindly show us the official information from Apple, Intel, or any of the manufacturing firms that make the Mac Pro that state your supposition as a reality?

I am still highly doubtful that this post required its own thread.

When have they released Mac Pro in fall?

Umbongo
Jun 8, 2010, 08:44 AM
When have they released Mac Pro in fall?

They haven't why do you ask?

Vylen
Jun 8, 2010, 08:47 AM
Original Mac Pro was released in August. One month off from Autumn. So what's another month? Seriously.

And this thread, c'mon. Facts? What facts?

Evidence of the past doesn't define the future.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 08:48 AM
They haven't why do you ask?

īCause lately the Mac Pro release has been always in January. Just a logical way looking at it.

fury88
Jun 8, 2010, 08:48 AM
I, too, have been holding off for an update. This would be my first Mac (I jumped in on the iPhone a few years ago and subsequently am do for an upgrade. Good timing!).

I am beginning to think that we might not see something until the end of the summer. They are currently running the college promotion special which leads me to believe they won't update until the college sales are about done. They can suck the last life of it for now.

I also understand from rumors on here that they filmed one last PC/Mac commercial which includes an iPhone spoof, right? That also makes me concerned that they are "passing the buck" over to the iPhone as some people have mentioned. While I don't think they'll completely abandon the Mac Pro, I do think the updates will become less frequent. The chips are built to last awhile now and with that many cores you should be able to get some mileage out of them. I would be using mine for music production. I am currently running a Quad CPU Dell I built a couple of years ago and while it's serving it's purpose, the Mac Pro would do me much better.

Keeping fingers crossed anyway but if I don't see an update I might see how I feel in the next month or two after some more royalty checks roll in. :p

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 08:49 AM
Original Mac Pro was released in August. One month off from Autumn. So what's another month? Seriously.

And this thread, c'mon. Facts? What facts?

Evidence of the past doesn't define the future.

What does the dr.Phil always say: "Remember, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."

Vylen
Jun 8, 2010, 08:51 AM
What does the dr.Phil always say: "Remember, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."

And fortunately, Dr. Phil doesn't run or consult for multinational billion dollar companies.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 08:53 AM
And fortunately, Dr. Phil doesn't run or consult for multinational billion dollar companies.

Well maybe he should. We might have gotten Mac Pro already in January 2010! :)

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 08:53 AM
īCause lately the Mac Pro release has been always in January. Just a logical way looking at it.

First Mac Pro: August 2006.
Second Mac Pro: January 2008.
Third Mac Pro: March 2009.

Always in January, huh?

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 08:55 AM
First Mac Pro: August 2006.
Second Mac Pro: January 2008.
Third Mac Pro: March 2009.

Always in January, huh?

Then we have to wait till August right. If nothing happens, then definitely not until January 2011.

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 08:56 AM
Then we have to wait till August right. If nothing happens, then definitely not until January 2011.

Uh, no. None of these months means anything. There is nothing set in stone for any release dates of any non-iDevice made by Apple. There is no "definitely not" and no "have to wait".

Basically, Apple's computers are released when they're released. There are no timeframes other than the availability of Intel chips.

Vylen
Jun 8, 2010, 08:57 AM
Then we have to wait till August right. If nothing happens, then definitely not until January 2011.

And thus, this thread is no longer useful - assuming it was even considered to have a point.

reel2reel
Jun 8, 2010, 09:01 AM
Enough of this rubbish, I did exactly the same as the OP, I sold my machine back in December thinking an update would be coming between January-March.

At the time, it seem perfectly reasonable to assume an update by March, indeed everyone I know in the industry expected that to occur.

Yes I am a professional and needless to say I deeply regret that decision now and had no idea it would take anywhere near as long as 7 months (and still going).

Wow, you and the OP must have been separated at birth. Or you're the same person.

So, let's break this down...you're a working professional and you sell your computer because...why? Because you thought a better one would be out soon and you were willing to give up work for a couple months in hopes that you'd make all that lost money back with faster rendering times?

Craaazy.

reel2reel
Jun 8, 2010, 09:02 AM
you are ignoring pretty much one of the fundamental laws of computing(and economics for that matter)...blahblahblahblah...HD video and near real-time editing is now becoming the baseline instead of the exception and more and more powerful computers are needed to meet the increased demand.

Not to mention that with the economy professionals now need to be more adaptable than ever. If your 2009 mac pro renders a complex edit in 8 hours while your competitor, a windows user with a brand new Dell, can do it in 6, who do you think the customer is going to choose?

I think the customer is going to probably choose the guy that gets the work done. Not the one that sits around whining about his computer not being fast enough as an excuse for lack of skill.

Have you ever worked one day in actual video post production? I'm not talking youtube videos or anti-drunk-driving spots for local cable. If you had, you'd know there's a lot more to it than rendering speed.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 09:03 AM
I wonder would people be even more angry if Apple would announce that no new Mac Pros until January 2011. Or would they be less angry when they would know and plan their purchaces wisely.

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 09:05 AM
2009 Mac Pro's are not as reliable as 2008 Mac Pro's, hence the need for a "quick" update; i decided to skip the 2009's, that's why i'm waiting for the 2010.

I question your definition of the word reliable, as I have had no trouble with my Gainestown in the year-and-three that I've had it.

i think i don't need your unsolicited advise, thanks,

You came to a forum but don't want unsolicited advice? :p

I think we all deserve it.

Deserve... It's a computer. Apple doesn't owe you, us, or anyone anything.

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 09:07 AM
I wonder would people be even more angry if Apple would announce that no new Mac Pros until January 2011. Or would they be less angry when they would know and plan their purchaces wisely.

The only one to suffer from a pre-announcement would be Apple. No one would buy the current model when they know of the existence of its successor.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 09:11 AM
The only one to suffer from a pre-announcement would be Apple. No one would buy the current model when they know of the existence of its successor.

So I guess this strategy they have now is really good PR?

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 09:13 AM
So I guess this strategy they have now is really good PR?

You have to remember that the people to whom the Mac Pro is marketed don't want their machines to be outdated right after they purchase them. Updating hardware every six months is contrary to their plans and would be worse PR.

iMacmatician
Jun 8, 2010, 09:14 AM
Except for minor bumps there isn't anything on the CPU side until Q3 2011.

reel2reel
Jun 8, 2010, 09:14 AM
What does the dr.Phil always say: "Remember, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior."

He also says:

"A dog can't pee on moving car."

Make of that what you will.

aiqw9182
Jun 8, 2010, 09:15 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/05/06/widespread-availability-of-hexacore-xeon-processors-for-mac-pro-not-slated-until-late-june/

Update in late June or August.

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 09:22 AM
You have to remember that the people to whom the Mac Pro is marketed don't want their machines to be outdated right after they purchase them. Updating hardware every six months is contrary to their plans and would be worse PR.

I wouldnīt mind, it would definitely be better than this BS. But maybe twice a year is too much, unless itīs some minor spec bumps.

Once a year should be at least the goal.

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 09:23 AM
I wouldnīt mind, it would definitely be better than this BS. But maybe twice a year is too much, unless itīs some minor spec bumps.

Once a year should be at least the goal.

Well, ask Intel to make chips faster, then. :p

Gulftown is out now, so we should see a Westmere Mac Pro fairly soon. Beyond that, Sandy Bridge Xeons won't be available until Q3 2011.

wally21
Jun 8, 2010, 09:25 AM
While I (and probably many others posting here) can handle having 4 core nehalem vs 6 core westmere processors, what upsets me the most are the current graphics card options.

ATI's 5000 series cards have been out since last fall and now Nvidia's fermi cards have been out for a few months too. There is no way that Apple can justify selling an ati 4870 as its high end graphics option. The quadro 4800, which you have to order separately, is a huge leap in price and is really pretty old tech at this point.

300D
Jun 8, 2010, 09:27 AM
Its June, so there is no possible way that there will be NO updates in the next half of the year?

Halamolo
Jun 8, 2010, 09:30 AM
Well, ask Intel to make chips faster, then. :p

Gulftown is out now, so we should see a Westmere Mac Pro fairly soon. Beyond that, Sandy Bridge Xeons won't be available until Q3 2011.

So with "soon" you mean approx. in 6 months? :p

Marty Macfly
Jun 8, 2010, 09:34 AM
So with "soon" you mean approx. in 6 months? :p

At no point did I ever say that, and in no way did I ever emphasize that we have an extended waiting period ahead of us. Penryn Xeons came out in November of 2007, I believe, and we waited two months for a physical manifestation of their release. I forget when Gulftown came out, but the point of this whole matter is: you're all whining and you need to stop. ;)

The current wait for a Mac Pro pales in comparison to the time between the first and the second. The target market for this machine can bear to wait a few more weeks or a month.

Hmac
Jun 8, 2010, 09:37 AM
īCause lately the Mac Pro release has been always in January. Just a logical way looking at it.

So what made you think they might release the new version yesterday?

By your logic, they'd be just as likely to release it tomorrow, next week, or next month as this coming January.

Vylen
Jun 8, 2010, 09:41 AM
I'm sure in some parallel universe, a new Mac Pro was released yesterday.

darkplanets
Jun 8, 2010, 09:42 AM
Pure thoughtless speculation on the OP's part.

They're coming, I can be certain on that.
Why you might ask?
Because no company in their right mind is going to drop a 2 year gap in their development pipeline. There's a difference between neglecting your products and just outright abandoning them.

Reasons for the apparent delay?
Everyone else has already talked about this, but its clearly Intel. They need the hexacore x in good supply; first they didn't have the x, now they probably just need to ramp up production. If anything, this proves that Apple does care; they could have just released a minor update revision with slightly faster versions of the current procs, add more RAM and a new GPU, and call it a day.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 8, 2010, 09:42 AM
I question your definition of the word reliable, as I have had no trouble with my Gainestown in the year-and-three that I've had it.

LUCKY YOU


You came to a forum but don't want unsolicited advice? :p

I MEANT YOUR ANNOYING "BUY A PC" ADVISE; I'M NOT HERE ASKING WHAT TO DO, I'M HERE SAYING THAT THIS LONG WAIT FOR THE NEXT MAC PRO SUCKS.

Deserve... It's a computer. Apple doesn't owe you, us, or anyone anything.

COMPANIES ARE DEVOTED TO THEIR SHAREHOLDER'S INTERESTS, RIGHT BUT THEY ALWAYS MAKE SURE TO KEEP THEIR CUSTOMERS HAPPY; THEY EXIST BECAUSE WE BUY THEIR STUFF; WE, IN RETURN, DESERVE THEM TO FULFILL OUR NEEDS SO THE CASH KEEPS FLOWING. WE EXCHANGE OUR MONEY FOR THINGS WE NEED, WHEN WE NEED THEM, AND AT AN AVERAGE PRICE OF $4,000 , IS EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULD GET ON THIS SEGMENT.

I think you might work @ :apple:.

surferfromuk
Jun 8, 2010, 09:46 AM
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4350/revenuej.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3325/petulancej.jpg

VirtuallyReal
Jun 8, 2010, 09:48 AM
While I (and probably many others posting here) can handle having 4 core nehalem vs 6 core westmere processors, what upsets me the most are the current graphics card options.

ATI's 5000 series cards have been out since last fall and now Nvidia's fermi cards have been out for a few months too. There is no way that Apple can justify selling an ati 4870 as its high end graphics option. The quadro 4800, which you have to order separately, is a huge leap in price and is really pretty old tech at this point.

+1

xgman
Jun 8, 2010, 10:09 AM
Apple could quiet us down real quick if they would just give some basic info on what the plan here is. It getting quite maddening.
And as for all you people complaining about us complaining, the old saying . . . the squeaky wheel gets the grease hopefully still applies. Although with Apple, the wheel needs to squeak loudly and continuously to be heard. ;)

xgman
Jun 8, 2010, 10:15 AM
I'm sorry, but this is nothing but another wasteful thread spouting nonsense based on no solid information.

It's true that Apple doesn't care as much about computers as they once did, but you have no information as to the release date, so it would be prudent for you to wait, just as everyone else is.


What do you and others who post similar sentiments care? Who appointed you the thread police? Let people vent. What's it to you (collectively)? I don't get it. :rolleyes:

danjames99
Jun 8, 2010, 10:21 AM
The main focus of Apple was NEVER pro users, they have always been a niche market. True that the recent focus has shifted even more to the "i" market, but It seems like you are not being devastated by the effects of this partial neglect.

Sorry, but I have to include my two cents. I couldn't help but note that this poster arguing with the thread originator already admitted he is 17 and "far from a professional" himself.

You are quite wrong. I've been working in environments with Macs in print/multimedia since you've been alive. Mac was the DEFAULT choice of pro users in the creative world in the 90s and until fairly recently, and they knew it, and everyone knew it.

Since Jobs made his "truck" analogy last week, I think it's reasonable to assume that Apple isn't making "mac" the priority that "i" will be. On that we all agree.

I am similarly disappointed in what has happened to the MP line. We were all hoping we'd get more robust Macs with the Intel move. At my company, we purchased a MP for video rendering purposes last year. It cost twice as much as an equivalent PC would have, but we did it because we're on the Mac platform already and have invested in Final Cut. Results have not really been mind-blowing, either.

If someone were telling me that they are thinking of starting up a business -- or were even just enthusiasts/educators/dreamers -- involving video production, my professional advice would not be to throw in your lot with the Macintosh platform at this time. It used to always be "have faith, Apple will make better products and you'll come out ahead in the long run," but now I don't think so.

As a personal, stand-alone anecdote, I built a W7 computer with a core i7 with an SSD boot, and it cost more than a $1,000 less than an equivalent MP (not that a single Xeon is equivalent to a single i7-860, anyway) and I see no reasons why I would make any of the extra investment back if I had purchased a MP.

Come on into the Windows7 rendering pool. The water's fine.

lemonade-maker
Jun 8, 2010, 10:23 AM
Apple could quiet us down real quick if they would just give some basic info on what the plan here is. It getting quite maddening.
And as for all you people complaining about us complaining, the old saying . . . the squeaky wheel gets the grease hopefully still applies. Although with Apple, the wheel needs to squeak loudly and continuously to be heard. ;)

Squeaky wheels may get the grease but the complaints here are just a rattling door panel and get ignored. The "No fair" complaint is truly irrational and will not spark any sympathy from anyone (except other irrational thinkers). The new machine will come out, just be patient. If you can't wait, get a computer. Life is so short, why waste calories on something so trivial?

Digital Skunk
Jun 8, 2010, 10:26 AM
I don't understand why Professionals are SELLING their bread makers because of rumors.

Then spend MONTHS of time with no workhorse machine waiting for a machine that's going to be slightly faster to purchase.

Seriously, if that is how you stay current or update your assets you need to go back to the basics of running a business and freelance operation.

Vylen
Jun 8, 2010, 10:27 AM
Squeaky wheels may get the grease but the complaints here are just a rattling door panel and get ignored. The "No fair" complaint is truly irrational and will not spark any sympathy from anyone (except other irrational thinkers). The new machine will come out, just be patient. If you can't wait, get a computer. Life is so short, why waste calories on something so trivial?

People who use computers for a living might not get as much exercise as they should. If this is one way to burn calories, why not? :P

quantum003
Jun 8, 2010, 10:34 AM
Oh brother. Seriously, just build a Hackintosh. You could build yourself a nice machine with twice the specs of the non-existent Mac Pro you are coveting for half of the price.

bocomo
Jun 8, 2010, 10:43 AM
it would seem everyone is just waiting for an update, and many people are just deciding to buy the 27" iMac, rather than wait and decrease productivity.



you seriously get faster render times from an imac?

Vylen
Jun 8, 2010, 10:47 AM
you seriously get faster render times from an imac?

Something like that.

There's been a few number of reviews and benchmark tests that show the latest 27" Core i7 iMacs beating the Quad and Octad Mac Pros.

bocomo
Jun 8, 2010, 10:50 AM
Apple could quiet us down real quick if they would just give some basic info on what the plan here is. It getting quite maddening.
And as for all you people complaining about us complaining, the old saying . . . the squeaky wheel gets the grease hopefully still applies. Although with Apple, the wheel needs to squeak loudly and continuously to be heard. ;)

by whining on a message board?

have you all made your complaints directly to apple?

bocomo
Jun 8, 2010, 10:51 AM
2009 Mac Pro's are not as reliable as 2008 Mac Pro's, hence the need for a "quick" update; i decided to skip the 2009's, that's why i'm waiting for the 2010. If YOU like PC's, go buy one.

Don't come to a Mac forum and tell people "buy a PC". I've been using Macs for over 15 years now, i think i don't need your unsolicited advise, thanks, i know what i want, i want a new Mac Pro, a way better one than the 2009 Nahalem. And i want it ASAP. I think we all deserve it.

i'm curious...what is the difference in reliability? (i really don't know)

bocomo
Jun 8, 2010, 10:52 AM
I also understand from rumors on here that they filmed one last PC/Mac commercial which includes an iPhone spoof, right? That also makes me concerned that they are "passing the buck" over to the iPhone as some people have mentioned. While I don't think they'll completely abandon the Mac Pro, I do think the updates will become less frequent. The chips are built to last awhile now and with that many cores you should be able to get some mileage out of them. I would be using mine for music production. I am currently running a Quad CPU Dell I built a couple of years ago and while it's serving it's purpose, the Mac Pro would do me much better.
:p

what does that have to do with anything? correct me if i'm wrong but i don't remember any mac pros in those commercials

vonMarion
Jun 8, 2010, 11:00 AM
you seriously get faster render times from an imac?

Perhaps I didn't word my thoughts right.

If someone is looking to upgrade, right now the quad-core iMac is looking like a pretty good deal, and it is stealing a lot of potential Mac Pro buyers.

What I meant by "decrease productivity" is that, rather than waiting around hoping for a new Mac Pro that is worth the price it's at, people are giving in and buying alternatives so that they can get some work done.

fearoftigers
Jun 8, 2010, 11:07 AM
Perhaps I didn't word my thoughts right.

If someone is looking to upgrade, right now the quad-core iMac is looking like a pretty good deal, and it is stealing a lot of potential Mac Pro buyers.

I had an iMac 27" which was great for music. Logic ran like a dream with a ton of Omnispheres etc loaded in.

Sadly it died after just 2 weeks. I was just within the 15 days so returned.

Didn't get a replacement as I just do not trust those machines. I don't want to have to be taking it in for repair 6 months down the line.

If it was a Ģ500 machine I would understand but Ģ3000 is a lot of money!

This is why I am waiting for a suitibly powerful Mac Pro.

quantum003
Jun 8, 2010, 11:08 AM
WE NEED TO KNOW IF THE NEW MAC PRO IS COMING OUT OR NOT, AND IF SO, WHEN WILL IT BE RELEASED, because business people just can't just sit and wait.

This quote reminds me of Romy and Michelle's high school reunion, the part where they get all dressed up and go to the diner and demand the "Businesswoman Special" because they are important business women. Waitress: Uhh, what kind of business are you in? No answer.

vonMarion
Jun 8, 2010, 11:15 AM
Oh, I agree with you 100% fearoftigers.

I am in desperate need of a new computer, but there's no way I'm getting a 27" iMac, for a multitude of reasons that I've already weighed, your argument included.

Still, the quad iMac is enough for what some consumers are looking for, and at a cheaper price, it's stealing away from Mac Pro business. The apple store manager, after having told him that I'm adamant in buying a Mac Pro, admitted to me that people have been coming in to get Mac Pros, but leaving with quad-core iMacs simply because they cannot afford to wait any longer for a mac pro that's worth the money they're charging.

cs4160
Jun 8, 2010, 11:29 AM
someone remarked that the average refresh metric used on mac rumors was distorted...unsure which post, i think we have half a dozen mp / apple sucks threads going around...any way, if we look at the last 5 years, we get

6/8/2010 -464 (and counting)
Mar-09 -425
Jan-08 -275
Apr-07 -243
Aug-06 -304
Oct-05 -183
Apr-05 -304

Thats an average of 314 days if it gets refreshed today or an average of 289 days for the 6 refreshes that actualy have occured (or 314 for the last 3).

By any measure, this seems to be longer than normal. I can sympathesize with individuals or small businesses that are trying to have some predicability in managing their life cylce. If apple had material mid life cycle changes (lowering of componenet prices, new hardware) during these few hundred days between new products, it would be much more bearable...

but those issues have been beaten to death. No one on this forum should be surprised, this is how apple does business, it works for them, and yes they will probably lose some clients...but MP's are simply not their priority now...they go where the money is....

the editor
Jun 8, 2010, 11:41 AM
You have to remember that the people to whom the Mac Pro is marketed don't want their machines to be outdated right after they purchase them. Updating hardware every six months is contrary to their plans and would be worse PR.


my opinion is that by Apple not giving any official statement on the MP release they are losing allot credibility...how serious do you want us to take Apple when they are still charging over 3000$ for a machine that should be priced atleast 1000$ less...how serious should we take a company that claims to give us "PRO" machines targeted at the PRO users when the hardware in these machines is nowhere near what a Pro desktop should be...i mean seriously, there's a 60$ graphic card in there :confused:.

how serious should we take a company that doesn't give any feedback what-so-ever on the update of a machine that is targeted at professionals..people who invest loads of money on software...etc

lets face it, Apple is great for toys...when it comes to serious computing run from it.

johnnymg
Jun 8, 2010, 11:44 AM
I don't understand why Professionals are SELLING their bread makers because of rumors.

Then spend MONTHS of time with no workhorse machine waiting for a machine that's going to be slightly faster to purchase.

Seriously, if that is how you stay current or update your assets you need to go back to the basics of running a business and freelance operation.

These are NOT Pros who are posting about selling their HW. Mostly posers and trolls. All we're doing is feeding their little egos.

dipm06
Jun 8, 2010, 11:46 AM
bad move on the OPs part. i do feel bad if it really did affect your business, but the bottom line is you really shouldn't have sold it because nothing is a sure thing when it comes to apple. its not apples fault that you're losing money. they may never release new mac pros. thats just their plan. it may be a bad plan and may mean that people will lose money and, like you, get angry or whatever but they're not doing anything wrong. i dont get the point of you pointing a finger at apple because they did not give any indication that they would release a new mac pro.

and just so you know, i'm not a fanboy. i use both a macbook air, and a pc. not biased at all. i get what fits my needs.

Livegeek
Jun 8, 2010, 11:47 AM
Since why did apple say that there is no apple mac pro coming up? they might just don't want to say everything. And there are still 3 days left on WWDC

xgman
Jun 8, 2010, 11:49 AM
by whining on a message board?

have you all made your complaints directly to apple?

Yes I have made my comments to Apple and even emailed Steve Jobs. I find that if you take bugs and problems as an issue, it seems to be only when enough people complain and the news sites take notice of the problem and the story spreads around a bit, that Apple takes notice and does something about it. Maybe that would work here as well, but I really don't expect it to. Apple has other priorities and that is a business decision. I just wish they would be more forthcoming. In any case I don't see the problem with people venting on this forum. Those that find it to be "whining" need not open the thread, right?

There seems to be a large number of people who post in threads just to argue. I'll never understand why some posters feel the need to insult others in threads where they really have nothing useful to contribute. Personally, I find it somewhat therapeutic to post here.

gglockner
Jun 8, 2010, 12:00 PM
Patience, Grasshopper.

We know that store.apple.com will be updated on June 15 to allow pre-orders of the iPhone 4. It would also be an opportune time for a silent upgrade to the Mac Pro.

xgman
Jun 8, 2010, 12:04 PM
These are NOT Pros who are posting about selling their HW. Mostly posers and trolls. All we're doing is feeding their little egos.

By the way, why does anyone care who the people are who buys a Mac Pro? Are only professionals allowed to buy mac pro's? Quite frankly I personally don't care who or why anyone would buy one, how much money they spend, and don't really want to know. I am not bothered by anyone's individual reason to want the newer model, just because, or "whine" about it here or whatever. Again, why should anyone care? Let people be. yes, there are some trolls who do nothing more than continuously argue, but there are also apparently a good deal of posters that somehow are threatened by certain reasons people want to buy Mac Pros it would seem. It's like TV or radio, if you don't like whats on, simply change the channel, or thread in this case. Very odd.

ValSalva
Jun 8, 2010, 12:22 PM
Well, life isn't fair. But the value of a Mac Pro right now isn't 'fair.'

If Apple are not going to update the Mac Pro and they won't decrease the price, then what about a compromise? Apple can charge the same $2499 for the base Mac Pro but make the base processor the 2.93 GHz, up the base RAM to 8 GB, and make the base HDD 1 TB.

That would be more fair and even makes some sense. I would say there is a 0.1% chance this will happen though.

dipm06
Jun 8, 2010, 12:31 PM
By the way, why does anyone care who the people are who buys a Mac Pro? Are only professionals allowed to buy mac pro's? Quite frankly I personally don't care who or why anyone would buy one, how much money they spend, and don't really want to know. I am not bothered by anyone's individual reason to want the newer model, just because, or "whine" about it here or whatever. Again, why should anyone care? Let people be. yes, there are some trolls who do nothing more than continuously argue, but there are also apparently a good deal of posters that somehow are threatened by certain reasons people want to buy Mac Pros it would seem. It's like TV or radio, if you don't like whats on, simply change the channel, or thread in this case. Very odd.

i think his point was that some of the people who aren't pros shouldn't be complaining. the current mac pro is the best in the apple line up and because there are no indications for an update, why complain? especially when you are not a pro who doesn't need the power.

i guess real pros can complain that there are not new mac pros, but why blame apple? if they dont release a new mac pro then they dont. it shouldn't be a problem for most people because there are other alternatives if needed. if apple doesn't have what you want, go elsewhere. why wait for something that may never be released?

calderone
Jun 8, 2010, 12:33 PM
Well, life isn't fair. But the value of a Mac Pro right now isn't 'fair.'

If Apple are not going to update the Mac Pro and they won't decrease the price, then what about a compromise? Apple can charge the same $2499 for the base Mac Pro but make the base processor the 2.93 GHz, up the base RAM to 8 GB, and make the base HDD 1 TB.

That would be more fair and even makes some sense. I would say there is a 0.1% chance this will happen though.

Make that 0.0%

nanofrog
Jun 8, 2010, 12:53 PM
I guess this is what I get for revealing my age on forums. :rolleyes: From now on, I am as ageless as time....or the ever enigmatic nanofrog :p
:p

It's a kind of forced-nostalgia to 2006, when Steve excitedly claimed screamed "zomg 3.0 GHZ guyz!" ;):D:p
The MP's (content creation) was their business model at the time. Then the devices started, and Apple shifted their model (i.e. follow the money).

To make a computer you have to rely on technology being created by other companies. Those companies have to research, develop, and produce the technology so that the computer companies can utilize it.
In the case of the MP and XServes, it's on Intel's schedule. The issue at this point though, is the parts are available (nor does it require a complete re-design to make them work either; very little work comparitively speaking in terms of validation).

If Apple can not get the processors they need due to a shortage (which is happening now) then they can't release the product. So, people in the "pro" industry need to be aware of that and adjust accordingly.
It depends on how they buy them. There's no shortage for Direct Sales. The article/s on Gulftown shortages was for the Distributor Channels (companies that're buying too few parts to buy directly from Intel). Apple buys directly, so it wasn't applicable.

2009 Mac Pro's are not as reliable as 2008 Mac Pro's, hence the need for a "quick" update; i decided to skip the 2009's, that's why i'm waiting for the 2010. If YOU like PC's, go buy one.
Keep in mind however, the 2010 systems won't be that different (same boards with new CPU's). Intel designs thier cycles that way as a means of reducing development costs.

So the problems that exist in the '09's will follow in the 2010 systems, unless Apple addresses them directly (i.e. fix any QC issues or bugs that may yet exist). New ones *could* actually occur as well.

Except for minor bumps there isn't anything on the CPU side until Q3 2011.
Exactly. The Gulftowns are meant as a drop-in replacement in terms of hardware (though the firmware will need adaptation to allow them to work).

But it's not a new PCB design, socket, accompanying chipset, ... as it was going from Harpertown to Nehalem.

I forget when Gulftown came out...
March 16, 2010.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4350/revenuej.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3325/petulancej.jpg
Where did you find these?
And where is the Mini?

Or did you make them as an illustrative means?

I ask, as I've never been able to find a detailed product breakdown for the desktop systems.

you seriously get faster render times from an imac?
Assuming that there's no issues with bottlenecks (RAM or disk throughput), it's possible, as the iMac is the same core architecture* @ 2.8GHz, vs. 2.66GHz in a base '09 Quad (*meaning the exclusion of interconnects and the differences in channel count in the memory controller).

It's not a drastic increase in the clock, but it would be faster.

Well, life isn't fair. But the value of a Mac Pro right now isn't 'fair.'
I wouldn't use the word "fair" at all, but for most, the sentiment that the value has vanished would ring home. But it's dependent on your POV.

If there's a contract in hand for example, the current system would allow a user to complete it on time, and earn a profit. So buying in such a case makes financial sense.

For independents, enthusiasts, students,... that are on limited budgets, can't upgrade on fixed MTBR cycles,..., however, it's a far less attractive proposition right now.

POV due to the specific situation, truly does make all the difference. ;)

Major Reeves
Jun 8, 2010, 12:54 PM
Buy a mac pro if you need, if you need not, look elsewhere.
Plus professional hardware "usually" gets replaced in 3 years life cycles, using the gainstown xeon x5570 mac pro, 12 gb ram, hd4870, bought right on release. So hello sandy bridge based mac pro.
Although I think theres no need to urge in using westmere at this point, apple should have updated prices and released a graphics card upgrade.

If you still want to rant more about the subject, mail steve.
I did about the graphics card.

PS: According to hardmac, the macmini is currently unavailable on the retail market and the xcode 4 rumor also happened to be true. So who knows? Mac pro revision tomorrow, maybe next week, or next year.

666sheep
Jun 8, 2010, 01:06 PM
Something like that.

There's been a few number of reviews and benchmark tests that show the latest 27" Core i7 iMacs beating the Quad and Octad Mac Pros.

Could you please post link to rendering benchmark where i7 iMac is beating 2009 Octad or even 2008 Octad?

I can't see it here for example: http://www.cbscores.com/

mattbatt
Jun 8, 2010, 01:14 PM
I am appalled by the level of ignorance toward the OP and those of us who are in a terrible frustrating situation currently.

I am a pro graphic / web designer who is getting into cinema and pro photography on my own with the 5dmkII.

I have a full time job as an employee but also do many freelance and non-profit jobs at home with my own business.

I am not one of those people who has to buy the latest and greatest toy, however, in my current situation, I do not want to buy a 400+ day old computer for top dollar (that was top dollar 400+ days ago).

What people forget is that in the past, Apple did quiet updates (ram, processor, HD) so even though the price remained the same, you got a little more for your money.

Not so today. Plus, Nahelam saw a huge increase in price from Intel and was the first time that the 8core MacPro saw less performance gain per dollar gain. The 2008 models where extremely high performance per dollar.

Here is my predicament:
My 2003 G5 has died once again (this is it's second motherboard failure, so it would be going on its third motherboard). Apple recently stopped all repairs for G5's. What people don't realize is that there should of been a recall, almost 40% of original G5 motherboards went bad.

Apple wouldn't even give me $100 off a new purchase (since I work in education). They repeadedly told me I should of upgraded years ago (ok, maybe I like using my hardware for all I can get. I could play back HD video realtime and used CS4 fine).

I have been without a machine for months because I am waiting for either a price drop or the new machines.

Luckily, yes, I make enough from my full time employer, but I am in a jam.

For the first time I have seriously been thinking of jumping ship. I use windows 7 at work, it is ok. The point is, the i7 980x is out and is being overclocked like mad by users. It is stable at 4 Ghz.

Also, why can't Apple make an intermediate Pro model (single chip set), using the i7's instead of the Xeon's and save us money? Most of us do not need dual 6 cores, nor will the performance gain be good with photoshop and Adobe products (other than AE and Premiere).

Again, pro graphic designers aren't able to max cores on Indesign, Dreamweaver, illustrator and Photoshop.

That is my other point: the performance an every-day-Joe-nerd in his mom's basement can get out of an Alienware 6 core naturally overclocked would be the performance of Sandy Bridge or in other words, a mac model released around 2012.

Why? For everyday pro users, the higher Ghz is going to scream way more than numerous cores. Powering through CS stuff @ 4Ghz is fast!

You know what we are going to see, if we do see anything? A 6 core 3.33 Ghz way overpriced (when the i7 @ 3.33 runs 1k and you can build a very nice system for 2k, Apple will have it at 3299, mark my words.)

And for me, looking at the benchmarks for everday pro use (not video or 3d rendering), anything under 3.33 Ghz for the 980x isn't much more speedy than the current Nahalem.

Image being able to overclock your MacPro's? The new Nehalem's were designed to overclock themselves during some processes anyway, just boosting that a little gives extreme performance

mattbatt
Jun 8, 2010, 01:26 PM
Could you please post link to rendering benchmark where i7 iMac is beating 2009 Octad or even 2008 Octad?

I can't see it here for example: http://www.cbscores.com/

ok Devil sheep,
I know of one - http://barefeats.com/fcp7.html

and what you need to do is compare the i7 running FCP 6 (the motion test), against the 4 core and 8 core running the newest motion (from FCP 7).

What you find is that Apple's latest newest suite is so bloated, that it takes your 8 core machine and bogs it down slower than the new iMac. Also, motion is pushing more of the GPU and the newest iMac has a pretty buff one.

This is real world stuff and shows what software bloat does.

dipm06
Jun 8, 2010, 01:32 PM
I am appalled by the level of ignorance toward the OP and those of us who are in a terrible frustrating situation currently.

I am a pro graphic / web designer who is getting into cinema and pro photography on my own with the 5dmkII.

I have a full time job as an employee but also do many freelance and non-profit jobs at home with my own business.

I am not one of those people who has to buy the latest and greatest toy, however, in my current situation, I do not want to buy a 400+ day old computer for top dollar (that was top dollar 400+ days ago).

What people forget is that in the past, Apple did quiet updates (ram, processor, HD) so even though the price remained the same, you got a little more for your money.

Not so today. Plus, Nahelam saw a huge increase in price from Intel and was the first time that the 8core MacPro saw less performance gain per dollar gain. The 2008 models where extremely high performance per dollar.

Here is my predicament:
My 2003 G5 has died once again (this is it's second motherboard failure, so it would be going on its third motherboard). Apple recently stopped all repairs for G5's. What people don't realize is that there should of been a recall, almost 40% of original G5 motherboards went bad.

Apple wouldn't even give me $100 off a new purchase (since I work in education). They repeadedly told me I should of upgraded years ago (ok, maybe I like using my hardware for all I can get. I could play back HD video realtime and used CS4 fine).

I have been without a machine for months because I am waiting for either a price drop or the new machines.

Luckily, yes, I make enough from my full time employer, but I am in a jam.

For the first time I have seriously been thinking of jumping ship. I use windows 7 at work, it is ok. The point is, the i7 980x is out and is being overclocked like mad by users. It is stable at 4 Ghz.

Also, why can't Apple make an intermediate Pro model (single chip set), using the i7's instead of the Xeon's and save us money? Most of us do not need dual 6 cores, nor will the performance gain be good with photoshop and Adobe products (other than AE and Premiere).

Again, pro graphic designers aren't able to max cores on Indesign, Dreamweaver, illustrator and Photoshop.

That is my other point: the performance an every-day-Joe-nerd in his mom's basement can get out of an Alienware 6 core naturally overclocked would be the performance of Sandy Bridge or in other words, a mac model released around 2012.

Why? For everyday pro users, the higher Ghz is going to scream way more than numerous cores. Powering through CS stuff @ 4Ghz is fast!

You know what we are going to see, if we do see anything? A 6 core 3.33 Ghz way overpriced (when the i7 @ 3.33 runs 1k and you can build a very nice system for 2k, Apple will have it at 3299, mark my words.)

And for me, looking at the benchmarks for everday pro use (not video or 3d rendering), anything under 3.33 Ghz for the 980x isn't much more speedy than the current Nahalem.

Image being able to overclock your MacPro's? The new Nehalem's were designed to overclock themselves during some processes anyway, just boosting that a little gives extreme performance

apple always charges premium for their produces. its not all about the hardware.

i also dont see a tower that uses the regular i7 chips, although id really like to. however, there is a possibility now that steam has come to the mac, which i assume will eventually lead to a lot of game developers making games for the mac platform.

if you need a new machine now, i say buy the new ones. for your needs, i think it will be more than enough. if its going to be making you some money, you'll be able to pay it off anyway. if you dont need a new machine just yet, just wait. i, like you, like having the latest and greatest, but i know that that is not a possibility for me. i just get what i need. knowing that i have enough power for what i need to do is enough to keep me from wanting to upgrade.

Deepshade
Jun 8, 2010, 01:37 PM
Patience, Grasshopper.

We know that store.apple.com will be updated on June 15 to allow pre-orders of the iPhone 4. It would also be an opportune time for a silent upgrade to the Mac Pro.

And the G5 is officially obsolete on the 16th.

So the 15th is my last hope for a replacement before current workstations officially go on the liability list.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 8, 2010, 02:05 PM
These are NOT Pros who are posting about selling their HW. Mostly posers and trolls. All we're doing is feeding their little egos.

Johnnymg, ONCE AGAIN, i sold that Mac Pro because i can afford it, if YOU rely on a single machine to make a living, don't judge ME based on YOUR condition.

Again, based on your signature, you are a MBP user, so, go post on MBP Threads and give us a break (us MP users) maybe you just wish you could have a MP and just can't, and that's why you insist on picking on me, who not only can afford it, but also can afford to sell it without any negative consecuences for my income. Maybe you need to pick on me in order to feel better about your "can't do better than a MBP" status.

This is the only personal remark you'll get from me. Again, this is not about me, is about Apple's MP update strategy.

Stop calling me a Troll or a poser. Your personal remarks are the only thing here causing controversy.

Do us a big favor: go play with your camera and your funny hats.

Voltaic
Jun 8, 2010, 02:05 PM
I am appalled by the level of ignorance toward the OP and those of us who are in a terrible frustrating situation currently.

I am a pro graphic / web designer who is getting into cinema and pro photography on my own with the 5dmkII.

I have a full time job as an employee but also do many freelance and non-profit jobs at home with my own business.

I am not one of those people who has to buy the latest and greatest toy, however, in my current situation, I do not want to buy a 400+ day old computer for top dollar (that was top dollar 400+ days ago).

What people forget is that in the past, Apple did quiet updates (ram, processor, HD) so even though the price remained the same, you got a little more for your money.

Not so today. Plus, Nahelam saw a huge increase in price from Intel and was the first time that the 8core MacPro saw less performance gain per dollar gain. The 2008 models where extremely high performance per dollar.

Here is my predicament:
My 2003 G5 has died once again (this is it's second motherboard failure, so it would be going on its third motherboard). Apple recently stopped all repairs for G5's. What people don't realize is that there should of been a recall, almost 40% of original G5 motherboards went bad.

Apple wouldn't even give me $100 off a new purchase (since I work in education). They repeadedly told me I should of upgraded years ago (ok, maybe I like using my hardware for all I can get. I could play back HD video realtime and used CS4 fine).

I have been without a machine for months because I am waiting for either a price drop or the new machines.

Luckily, yes, I make enough from my full time employer, but I am in a jam.

For the first time I have seriously been thinking of jumping ship. I use windows 7 at work, it is ok. The point is, the i7 980x is out and is being overclocked like mad by users. It is stable at 4 Ghz.

Also, why can't Apple make an intermediate Pro model (single chip set), using the i7's instead of the Xeon's and save us money? Most of us do not need dual 6 cores, nor will the performance gain be good with photoshop and Adobe products (other than AE and Premiere).

Again, pro graphic designers aren't able to max cores on Indesign, Dreamweaver, illustrator and Photoshop.

That is my other point: the performance an every-day-Joe-nerd in his mom's basement can get out of an Alienware 6 core naturally overclocked would be the performance of Sandy Bridge or in other words, a mac model released around 2012.

Why? For everyday pro users, the higher Ghz is going to scream way more than numerous cores. Powering through CS stuff @ 4Ghz is fast!

You know what we are going to see, if we do see anything? A 6 core 3.33 Ghz way overpriced (when the i7 @ 3.33 runs 1k and you can build a very nice system for 2k, Apple will have it at 3299, mark my words.)

And for me, looking at the benchmarks for everday pro use (not video or 3d rendering), anything under 3.33 Ghz for the 980x isn't much more speedy than the current Nahalem.

Image being able to overclock your MacPro's? The new Nehalem's were designed to overclock themselves during some processes anyway, just boosting that a little gives extreme performance

I had the same situation 2 months ago, my G5 died. Since the Mac Pro is so dated and OVER priced, I decided to take a chance and build a Hackintosh. Honestly, my Quad core PC with Snow installed is the BEST Mac I have ever had. 8 gig of RAM, 1TB drive, fast iNvidia VC with HTMI, 7.1 surround out, etc., etc., for the grand price of $1,000. I could have saved $, but decided the local Microcenter would be best since I could return everything if it did not work.

There are builds out there for the i7 chips which would cost a little more, but worth it. I strongly recommend it.

I got tired of Apple's limited, dated and way over priced Mac line. If they do an about face I will go back to Macs, but honestly I see no reason to.

666sheep
Jun 8, 2010, 02:20 PM
ok Devil sheep,
I know of one - http://barefeats.com/fcp7.html

and what you need to do is compare the i7 running FCP 6 (the motion test), against the 4 core and 8 core running the newest motion (from FCP 7).

What you find is that Apple's latest newest suite is so bloated, that it takes your 8 core machine and bogs it down slower than the new iMac. Also, motion is pushing more of the GPU and the newest iMac has a pretty buff one.

This is real world stuff and shows what software bloat does.

As you said, it's software, not hardware related issue. Compare machines, not software versions. It's more believable that way. Besides, it seems that Motion scores are more GPU than CPU dependent.

ValSalva
Jun 8, 2010, 02:24 PM
And the G5 is officially obsolete on the 16th.

So the 15th is my last hope for a replacement before current workstations officially go on the liability list.

This is all getting very discouraging. There have been many false hopes including WWDC (though it is still going on) with regards to new Mac Pro releases. So the next milestones are next Tuesday the 15th, and then someone said that Apple has the Moscone Center booked for the 27th of this month. The 27th is a Sunday. That doesn't seem promising. One thing is for sure: I'm not making any more Mac Pro predictions. Too disappointing.

xgman
Jun 8, 2010, 02:49 PM
if apple doesn't have what you want, go elsewhere. why wait for something that may never be released?

because most of us have invested heavily in mac based software and would have to duplicate a good deal of that elsewhere.

Winni
Jun 8, 2010, 03:03 PM
That will never happen.

Things that once also were supposed to never happen:

1. Macs running with Intel processors.

2. Macs running Windows as a native operating system.

3. Steve Jobs returning as the CEO of Apple.

4. Apple settling its lawsuit with Microsoft.

5. Macs using Microsoft Internet Explorer as the default web browser.

The list can be easily extended, but I think you get the idea.

al2o3cr
Jun 8, 2010, 03:13 PM
I am appalled by the level of ignorance toward the OP and those of us who are in a terrible frustrating situation currently.

I am a pro graphic / web designer who is getting into cinema and pro photography on my own with the 5dmkII.

I have a full time job as an employee but also do many freelance and non-profit jobs at home with my own business.

I am not one of those people who has to buy the latest and greatest toy, however, in my current situation, I do not want to buy a 400+ day old computer for top dollar (that was top dollar 400+ days ago).

What people forget is that in the past, Apple did quiet updates (ram, processor, HD) so even though the price remained the same, you got a little more for your money.

Not so today. Plus, Nahelam saw a huge increase in price from Intel and was the first time that the 8core MacPro saw less performance gain per dollar gain. The 2008 models where extremely high performance per dollar.

Here is my predicament:
My 2003 G5 has died once again (this is it's second motherboard failure, so it would be going on its third motherboard). Apple recently stopped all repairs for G5's. What people don't realize is that there should of been a recall, almost 40% of original G5 motherboards went bad.

Apple wouldn't even give me $100 off a new purchase (since I work in education). They repeadedly told me I should of upgraded years ago (ok, maybe I like using my hardware for all I can get. I could play back HD video realtime and used CS4 fine).

I have been without a machine for months because I am waiting for either a price drop or the new machines.

Luckily, yes, I make enough from my full time employer, but I am in a jam.

For the first time I have seriously been thinking of jumping ship. I use windows 7 at work, it is ok. The point is, the i7 980x is out and is being overclocked like mad by users. It is stable at 4 Ghz.

Also, why can't Apple make an intermediate Pro model (single chip set), using the i7's instead of the Xeon's and save us money? Most of us do not need dual 6 cores, nor will the performance gain be good with photoshop and Adobe products (other than AE and Premiere).

Again, pro graphic designers aren't able to max cores on Indesign, Dreamweaver, illustrator and Photoshop.

That is my other point: the performance an every-day-Joe-nerd in his mom's basement can get out of an Alienware 6 core naturally overclocked would be the performance of Sandy Bridge or in other words, a mac model released around 2012.

Why? For everyday pro users, the higher Ghz is going to scream way more than numerous cores. Powering through CS stuff @ 4Ghz is fast!

You know what we are going to see, if we do see anything? A 6 core 3.33 Ghz way overpriced (when the i7 @ 3.33 runs 1k and you can build a very nice system for 2k, Apple will have it at 3299, mark my words.)

And for me, looking at the benchmarks for everday pro use (not video or 3d rendering), anything under 3.33 Ghz for the 980x isn't much more speedy than the current Nahalem.

Image being able to overclock your MacPro's? The new Nehalem's were designed to overclock themselves during some processes anyway, just boosting that a little gives extreme performance

Let me get this straight: you *just* finally gave up on your 7-year-old G5 and are getting stressed out because the shiny you can buy today might be incrementally slower than the shiny you can buy in a few weeks? They'll *both* run circles around the machine you claim to have been happy with until just now, so why worry?

As for overclocking: look up "electromigration" to get a clue why users who need their machine to work don't do it. It's fine for l33t d00dz who only have to endure potentially missing a WoW raid if the machine fails, but not so much for most Mac Pro users...

xgman
Jun 8, 2010, 03:23 PM
As for overclocking: look up "electromigration" to get a clue why users who need their machine to work don't do it. It's fine for l33t d00dz who only have to endure potentially missing a WoW raid if the machine fails, but not so much for most Mac Pro users...

That is not a very bright blanket statement to make. It's all relative.

Deepshade
Jun 8, 2010, 03:26 PM
Let me get this straight: you *just* finally gave up on your 7-year-old G5 and are getting stressed out because the shiny you can buy today might be incrementally slower than the shiny you can buy in a few weeks? They'll *both* run circles around the machine you claim to have been happy with until just now, so why worry?

To be fair there are quite a few things coming together here.

1) Obsolete G5s
2) Recent versions of OSX not running on PPC G5s
3) New Adobe Software not running on PPC G5s
4) A lot of widgets and utilities no longer being released for PPC
5) Current MacPro system on the market for over a year (thats over a year of its technological life passed before you purchase it)
6) No price drop in current Mac Pro system to reflect its age on the market
7) Wasteful investment in product that is (by previous track records) near the end of its life cycle

really doesn't leave any clear path...
....Dump the cash on a current machine and don't worry about longevity, value for money, or advances in technology that have taken place over the last year and a bit....
....Hang on an hope!...
Buy something second hand or refurbished and ignore this development cycle....it may be the last, before Apples fastest bit of kit turns out to be a slightly more expandable iMac (with a touch screen)!

Major Reeves
Jun 8, 2010, 04:12 PM
To be fair there are quite a few things coming together here.

1) Obsolete G5s
2) Recent versions of OSX not running on PPC G5s
3) New Adobe Software not running on PPC G5s
4) A lot of widgets and utilities no longer being released for PPC
5) Current MacPro system on the market for over a year (thats over a year of its technological life passed before you purchase it)
6) No price drop in current Mac Pro system to reflect its age on the market
7) Wasteful investment in product that is (by previous track records) near the end of its life cycle

really doesn't leave any clear path...
....Dump the cash on a current machine and don't worry about longevity, value for money, or advances in technology that have taken place over the last year and a bit....
....Hang on an hope!...
Buy something second hand or refurbished and ignore this development cycle....it may be the last, before Apples fastest bit of kit turns out to be a slightly more expandable iMac (with a touch screen)!

I never though getting a computer, or in this case a workstation could be considered an investment. Silly me !
And it's no where near the end of it's life cycle, intel just added 6 cores cpu's to their offerings, they didn't replaced the 4 core versions with them.

And what are you going to do with a 6/12 core, 12/24 threads machine? Play WoW or portal?

I understand a price drop and a video card upgrade, other than that it's nonsense.

mattbatt
Jun 8, 2010, 05:51 PM
Let me get this straight: you *just* finally gave up on your 7-year-old G5 and are getting stressed out because the shiny you can buy today might be incrementally slower than the shiny you can buy in a few weeks? They'll *both* run circles around the machine you claim to have been happy with until just now, so why worry?

As for overclocking: look up "electromigration" to get a clue why users who need their machine to work don't do it. It's fine for l33t d00dz who only have to endure potentially missing a WoW raid if the machine fails, but not so much for most Mac Pro users...

Well wait, if it is released in a few weeks, I'll wait for sure! But what if it is by the end of summer like some rumors?

And yes, these machines will be faster and greater and more shiny, but that is not my point. Buying something old for top dollar is my point.

In technology, we know old = millenium status, so why should I take my own hard earned money and spend it on something that is technically out of date in comparison to i7's?

Look at the iMac: it is close to the MacPro quad and beats it in the bench mark I mentioned (it is software related but that is real world).

Also, i7's run cooler and use less energy. I had all my G5 problems because you could cook eggs on that beast. It served as my house heater though so that was ok . . .

mattbatt
Jun 8, 2010, 05:54 PM
I had the same situation 2 months ago, my G5 died. Since the Mac Pro is so dated and OVER priced, I decided to take a chance and build a Hackintosh. Honestly, my Quad core PC with Snow installed is the BEST Mac I have ever had. 8 gig of RAM, 1TB drive, fast iNvidia VC with HTMI, 7.1 surround out, etc., etc., for the grand price of $1,000. I could have saved $, but decided the local Microcenter would be best since I could return everything if it did not work.

There are builds out there for the i7 chips which would cost a little more, but worth it. I strongly recommend it.

I got tired of Apple's limited, dated and way over priced Mac line. If they do an about face I will go back to Macs, but honestly I see no reason to.

Is there a place you recommend to learn about making a hackintosh? That would be my solution.

Heck, I bought a hackintosh back in the day (remember PowerComputing, Daystar, and the other clones? lol)

Techhie
Jun 8, 2010, 06:03 PM
And what are you going to do with a 6/12 core, 12/24 threads machine? Play WoW or portal?


And what, you are going to tell him he doesn't "need" it? Computers are tools. For those that don't need but can afford the luxury of power tools, let them have their fun.

Are you going to dictate that he doesn't "need" that house, car, or large TV next? Even most professionals here could go with less power, but having it lets them earn more money, just like having that extra oomph might help a bro "pwn some n00bz." (provided Apple releases some decent cards :rolleyes:)

"Need" is a very general term.

lemonade-maker
Jun 8, 2010, 06:51 PM
"Need" is a very general term.

The word "need" is not a general term. It means requisite or necessary.

Boo hooing that it's "not fair" is silly. It begs for the responses that the op received. You really expect people empathize?

hugodrax
Jun 8, 2010, 08:09 PM
I am still using my 06 box (2.66x4,16GB ram,4870)

Thing is super rocksolid.

I think I have 5 more good years out of this box, which would mean 9 years of use :)

THX1139
Jun 9, 2010, 01:13 AM
I am still using my 06 box (2.66x4,16GB ram,4870)

Thing is super rocksolid.

I think I have 5 more good years out of this box, which would mean 9 years of use :)

I have the same computer only with 8GB of ram. Rarely max it out unless it's rendering footage. Funny thing is, my Macbook Pro renders footage in FCS faster than my 06 Macpro.

Techhie
Jun 9, 2010, 02:00 AM
The word "need" is not a general term. It means requisite or necessary.


"Need" is a general term when referring to things like this, because the argument could be made that computing itself is luxury. I'm sure we've all heard someone say "all you need is air to breathe" etc. The actual definition may me concrete, but its interpretation varies depending on who you talk to.

Fast Shadow
Jun 9, 2010, 02:09 AM
I find it curious how these pros who do high end, time sensitive work are apparently relying on single Mac Pros for compressing, rendering, etc... That doesn't make sense.

Deepshade
Jun 9, 2010, 02:17 AM
I never though getting a computer, or in this case a workstation could be considered an investment. Silly me !
And it's no where near the end of it's life cycle, intel just added 6 cores cpu's to their offerings, they didn't replaced the 4 core versions with them.

And what are you going to do with a 6/12 core, 12/24 threads machine? Play WoW or portal?

I understand a price drop and a video card upgrade, other than that it's nonsense.

You are obviously a prat that has to have a childish dig rather than contributing anything positive. Investment - favourable return in the future - ie maximising the return, finding the best time to buy tech etc etc. Buy now replace in 3-4 years, buy (possibly) next week - replace in 5-6 years. And I can find plenty of use for any number of cores in 3D rendering.

Now go and do something positive rather than having a go at other peoples posts and make the world a better place.

Halamolo
Jun 9, 2010, 03:24 AM
I donīt need the 2009 18 month old Mac Pro.

But I NEED a NEW Mac Pro!

Make sense? ;)

Mactrunk
Jun 9, 2010, 04:01 AM
I can see both sides of this issue.

I'm a music "pro" and am happily generating income with my 2008 eight core.
It is a fine machine and is doing everything I ask it to do.

Would I like more power?
Sure, I would like to have more headroom to be ready for the next generation of software.

Do I need more power?
Not at the moment.
In a day to day working environment, this machine is doing a great job.
I very seldom come up against any sessions where I can't get the results I want.

That being said, Apple is very secretive and non responsive about the next Mac Pro.

This is frustrating for the folks who are waiting to upgrade.
For the ultra high end high performance users, this is beyond frustrating.

The fact that the Mac Pro commands such a high price makes it even more vexing.
The OP has a great point.

The other side is that you can't blame a skunk for stinking.
Apple has demonstrated that this is the way they do this process... over and over again.

I'm willing to go with their particular scent because they have always provided me with capable, well integrated platforms.
OSX is excellent and for me, everything works really well.

I'll probably wait until this all shakes out and then buy the 2nd generation 36 core. ;-)

Octobot
Jun 9, 2010, 08:48 AM
And what are you going to do with a 12/24 threads machine?


Render like a mad scientist.

Major Reeves
Jun 9, 2010, 09:10 AM
You are obviously a prat that has to have a childish dig rather than contributing anything positive. Investment - favourable return in the future - ie maximising the return, finding the best time to buy tech etc etc. Buy now replace in 3-4 years, buy (possibly) next week - replace in 5-6 years. And I can find plenty of use for any number of cores in 3D rendering.

Now go and do something positive rather than having a go at other peoples posts and make the world a better place.

If you're going to replace it after 5-6 years them I guess you're not in the market for a pro. Plus the so called "professionals" don't rely on single machines for "3D rendering".
Dabbler, enthusiast you may be. Professional? Judging by your comments, no.

Grimace
Jun 9, 2010, 09:23 AM
1. This [long] interval is standard for the Mac Pro. Do your research and this shouldn't be a surprise.

2. Apple needs to ensure that its server-grade processors (the i7 iMac CPU is not in that category) are priced low enough to keep profit margins constant. In the CPU world, you can always have it on day 1. But, if it is 10% cheaper on day 31 and 25% cheaper on day 61, many companies will wait -- rather than shifting down the price accordingly week by week.

3. Apple isn't a components company, with pricing shifting based on the market. The price is almost always constant for the life of the computer version. We would have 45 threads a minute on "Do you think the new Xcomputer will be cheaper next week?" That is a business decision for profitability and consistency.

4. Just because you want it sooner doesn't mean that whining will help.

cs4160
Jun 9, 2010, 10:33 AM
Grimace, not sure i agree with you regarding interval being normal....

as previously posted, for the last five years...the lifecycles have been

6/9/2010 465 and counting
Mar-09 425
Jan-08 275
Apr-07 243
Aug-06 304
Oct-05 183

So, the last 5 cycles have averaged 286, the last 3, 314. Currently, if we refreshed TODAY, it would be 63% longer than we have averaged over the last 5 years or 48% longer than the last 3...thats material...

People have a right to be dissapointed, but they shouldnt be surprised. Apple marches to their own beat on tech refreshes, and clearly, i think they have had their focus on other product lines over the last few years...

i am waiting to get a new MP due to value. The current speed is more than adequate for my uses (simple enthusiast, dont use it for work), but i have a hard time paying close to the same price for something that came out 15 months ago...(my issue, not apple's)

xgman
Jun 9, 2010, 10:51 AM
the writing is on the wall. :( Apple will eventually move away from Mac and what we are seeing is the very beginning of this. further and further apart and one day . . none. Quite frankly I don't blame them from a business point of view.

HurryKayne
Jun 9, 2010, 10:54 AM
yes you're right...
even ,Apple can't say much about new machines in order to avoid killing sales...
but...now it's too much...
i'm worried about Apple's will to stay in the Pro market still..
what makes me think is
if they're devolopin a new 10.7..
they would need machines to work with it..
i don't think Apple will ever cut the link between Mac hardware and Osx software...
don't think they will sell Osx without Macs beside....
so....
perhaps i'm wrong
maybe the new 10.7 will be the new I-Os 5....
i hope not...

nxent
Jun 9, 2010, 11:02 AM
they'll probably release the new mp's within the coming month or so. aside from truly revolutionary mp/pm changes (e.g, G4 to G5, G5 to intel), isn't it rare for apple to announce mac pro or macbook pro revisions at wwdc?

cs4160
Jun 9, 2010, 11:03 AM
Just noticed something funny, my join date was July 2009. Thats when i first startinig thinking about a new MP! And, by being a procrastinating dumbass i fell into the classic trap of always waiting for the next big thing, and as a consequence did nothing!


In July, even though the refresh was only a few months old, i wanted to wait for snow leopard
then i wanted to wait for them to incorporate the better v cards in bto
then it was close to the average refresh wait so i though i would wait for a new one early in 2010
now i am waiting still waiting!


Wait a lame ass i am...but after 465 days, i am going to wait you out apple, do you hear me! :)

fury88
Jun 9, 2010, 11:09 AM
Just noticed something funny, my join date was July 2009. Thats when i first startinig thinking about a new MP! And, by being a procrastinating dumbass i fell into the classic trap of always waiting for the next big thing, and as a consequence did nothing!


In July, even though the refresh was only a few months old, i wanted to wait for snow leopard
then i wanted to wait for them to incorporate the better v cards in bto
then it was close to the average refresh wait so i though i would wait for a new one early in 2010
now i am waiting still waiting!


Wait a lame ass i am...but after 465 days, i am going to wait you out apple, do you hear me! :)

+1 ;)

I am doing the same thing and this is my first Mac but I probably won't wait much longer than the end of summer.

VirtuallyReal
Jun 9, 2010, 11:15 AM
2. Apple needs to ensure that its server-grade processors (the i7 iMac CPU is not in that category) are priced low enough to keep profit margins constant. In the CPU world, you can always have it on day 1. But, if it is 10% cheaper on day 31 and 25% cheaper on day 61, many companies will wait -- rather than shifting down the price accordingly week by week.



Good Point, but based on this approach, we would just have to settle on forever receive outdated (and overpriced) hardware, just to be able to run our beloved OS X (and OS X based software) just so Apple can get some extra bucks in their pockets. I know this has been going on for ages, but it doesn't mean it have ever made sense for us. The only reason we put up to this, is OS X and the sleek aesthetic designs they come up with. So far, not having the latest hardware has been made "bearable" by having the best OS and some cool looking, functional design.

We all know that Apple is (in terms of hardware) mainly focused on design (which is great that someone does), ease of use and reliability, but in some aspects (GPU/CPU), we've been left way behind compared to our PC neighbours.

Since Apple seems not to be interested on keeping up with the latest computer hardware, the next logical step (from the customer's point of view) would be to "release" OS X from the constraints of Mac-specific hardware, once and for all.

If Apple wants to keep making some HW for the "pure breed, 100% Apple hardware and software" fanboys? go ahead Steve, but please, allow me the choice to get that latest video card, that latest processor, allow us the expandability that PC users have enjoyed for ages, combine that with you unmatched OS, and that way you'll finally take over the world of computing.

I Would love to live to the day where i have the freedom to Buy a Mac PRO-like, Apple Case (best case design ever), fill it with the latest and the best hardware available (and have the choice of upgrade it as much and as frequent as i want), and then run the best software available in it (OS X) without the need of Hackingtosh-it.

I don't care if they raise the price to make it proffitable. I don't

Vylen
Jun 9, 2010, 11:21 AM
Just noticed something funny, my join date was July 2009. Thats when i first startinig thinking about a new MP! And, by being a procrastinating dumbass i fell into the classic trap of always waiting for the next big thing, and as a consequence did nothing!


In July, even though the refresh was only a few months old, i wanted to wait for snow leopard
then i wanted to wait for them to incorporate the better v cards in bto
then it was close to the average refresh wait so i though i would wait for a new one early in 2010
now i am waiting still waiting!


Wait a lame ass i am...but after 465 days, i am going to wait you out apple, do you hear me! :)

I've been waiting ever since the Intel transition ;)

I'm currently chugging along on an Early '06 iMac. Core Duo! 32bit!

I desperately want to upgrade to a Mac Pro but if they release a new MP soon, I'll beat myself silly (I got this iMac shortly before they released the Late '06 iMac, so I know that annoying feeling).

So, what's another few months on top of 4 years, lol.

Digital Skunk
Jun 9, 2010, 12:09 PM
These are NOT Pros who are posting about selling their HW. Mostly posers and trolls. All we're doing is feeding their little egos.

I would agree, but no one could have that much time to waste trying to sell their bread winner and then have nothing in the hopes of getting some shiny new toy that's only marginally faster.

I sold my PowerMac G5 back in the day because it was still PPC, and my 17" Penryn dusted it on a day to day basis.

I am not going to sell my 17" in the hopes of waiting for a new machine and just let my work stack up.

But hey, to each their own. I just hope they don't start blaming Apple's release cycle for their lost business.

Topper
Jun 9, 2010, 12:10 PM
Grimace, not sure i agree with you regarding interval being normal....
as previously posted, for the last five years...the life cycles have been

6/9/2010 465 and counting
Mar-09 425
Jan-08 275
Apr-07 243
Aug-06 304
Oct-05 183

So, the last 5 cycles have averaged 286, the last 3, 314. Currently, if we refreshed TODAY, it would be 63% longer than we have averaged over the last 5 years or 48% longer than the last 3...thats material...

I wouldn't even count the April 2007 Mac Pro as being a Mac Pro release. It was just a minor update.
As seen below, even Apple's support page (specifications) does not include the April 2007 Mac Pro. But the support page does offer the manual for download.

G5 to 2006 Mac Pro - 304 days.
2006 to 2008 Mac Pro - 518 days
2008 to 2009 Mac Pro - 425 days
2009 to 2010 Mac Pro - 463 days and counting

But there's no reason for people to be angry, frustrated, disappointed.

http://homepage.mac.com/ctopper/.Pictures/Mac Pro.jpg

Digital Skunk
Jun 9, 2010, 12:14 PM
If you're going to replace it after 5-6 years them I guess you're not in the market for a pro. Plus the so called "professionals" don't rely on single machines for "3D rendering".
Dabbler, enthusiast you may be. Professional? Judging by your comments, no.

I agree with the single machine in the PRO render house conundrum. I have never seen, even in the smallest, tiniest production house, one machine being used to render, and the editor or colorist sitting there waiting for hours.

If you are cutting a feature film, even indie, and: 1) you are rendering the entire 1 hour + at one time, 2) start a render then look for a cheese sandwich while you wait the 2 hours+ and/or 3) use QAdministrator to cluster your Mac Pro, Mac Mini, and white Macbook to speed a render, then you might want to consider buying another Mac Pro at the very least.

nanofrog
Jun 9, 2010, 01:09 PM
2. Apple needs to ensure that its server-grade processors (the i7 iMac CPU is not in that category) are priced low enough to keep profit margins constant. In the CPU world, you can always have it on day 1. But, if it is 10% cheaper on day 31 and 25% cheaper on day 61, many companies will wait -- rather than shifting down the price accordingly week by week.
They buy directly from Intel via contract. That means the pricing is stable, unlike the Distributor Channels, where pricing is volatile. The quantity purchased is what allows them to do this, and as it happens, usually allows for better pricing (depends on actual quantity ordered), even for the initial release.

hugodrax
Jun 9, 2010, 01:17 PM
I'm losing work because i sold equipment and made buying plans based on the availability of new Mac Pro's by June.

Don't just jump into conclusions that easily.

That makes no sense, That would be like me selling my functional money making trading workstation and waiting for a new one and now sitting on my hands not earning money.

Makes no sense that you did that. So how do you earn money now?

666sheep
Jun 9, 2010, 01:25 PM
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3054/41142809.jpg

SCNR :o :p :D

BobHail
Jun 9, 2010, 01:33 PM
Oh, Steve Jobs & Apple is disappointing even little babies. Outrageous! :D

VirtuallyReal
Jun 9, 2010, 01:54 PM
That makes no sense, That would be like me selling my functional money making trading workstation and waiting for a new one and now sitting on my hands not earning money.

Makes no sense that you did that. So how do you earn money now?

For the 132,387th time:

I
DO NOT
RELY
ON THIS
WORKSTATION
TO MAKE
A LIVING.

Doing so, and selling it, would be stupid. I know that. I have my share of common sense.

HurryKayne
Jun 9, 2010, 02:00 PM
2006 to 2008 Mac Pro - 518 days ?
thanks i didn't remember this...
so maybe
is it impossible to have a 2009 to 2011 ?
Sandy Bridge seems good...
maybe this explain all...
in the meanwhile i think i can continue to use my octo 2008...:cool:

nanofrog
Jun 9, 2010, 02:04 PM
2006 to 2008 Mac Pro - 518 days ?
Sort of.

They did a small update, where Quad core processors were offered (first Octad systems). Otherwise, it was the same board.

MacsRgr8
Jun 9, 2010, 02:08 PM
Obviously you are not bright enough to think about the possibility that i do not rely on that single machine to get the job done. Now you are insulting my work. insinuating it might be worthless? what place is this?

"Buy another one"? please don't tell me what to do. You go and buy an 18 month old, decaying MP... that's a brilliant advice, hope you are not a tech consultant.

Please, start to live in the real world.

I understand the *want* for a new Mac Pro. It's gr8 that your wonderful work will be done about 15% faster on a new Mac....
But actually selling your stuff based on a hunch...??!! :eek:

A new Mac Pro will be faster, sure. But not mind-blowingly faster. Most businesses refresh their machines every 3 or 4 years. Sometimes timing is perfect... remember the intro of the G5: If the exact time of refresh is with the intro of a major upgrade, that's cool.

But usually you're caught between waiting a bit for a new model, or being happy with what Apple has to offer now.
But most pro's who want to wait (which I understand fully ATM) keep their work-horse which probably still works fine.

No one knows why Apple hasn't done the Mac Pro upgrade to the newest available Xeons. But for one reason or another, Apple have decided to wait.

I'm sure that once a new Mac Pro does arrive, we all will find the wait worth it.

BobHail
Jun 9, 2010, 02:11 PM
So, it will be another 6 months until new Mac Pro. Effing great!!!

dimensional
Jun 9, 2010, 02:26 PM
This situation gets more ridiculous with each passing day.

Switching back to Linux seems more and more compelling.

nanofrog
Jun 9, 2010, 02:39 PM
This situation gets more ridiculous with each passing day.

Switching back to Linux seems more and more compelling.
Potentially cheaper than switching back to Windows for some anyway. :p

Octobot
Jun 9, 2010, 02:56 PM
1. This [long] interval is standard for the Mac Pro. Do your research and this shouldn't be a surprise.

2. Apple needs to ensure that its server-grade processors (the i7 iMac CPU is not in that category) are priced low enough to keep profit margins constant. In the CPU world, you can always have it on day 1. But, if it is 10% cheaper on day 31 and 25% cheaper on day 61, many companies will wait -- rather than shifting down the price accordingly week by week.

3. Apple isn't a components company, with pricing shifting based on the market. The price is almost always constant for the life of the computer version. We would have 45 threads a minute on "Do you think the new Xcomputer will be cheaper next week?" That is a business decision for profitability and consistency.

4. Just because you want it sooner doesn't mean that whining will help.

Hear, hear.

fury88
Jun 9, 2010, 03:21 PM
1. This [long] interval is standard for the Mac Pro. Do your research and this shouldn't be a surprise.

2. Apple needs to ensure that its server-grade processors (the i7 iMac CPU is not in that category) are priced low enough to keep profit margins constant. In the CPU world, you can always have it on day 1. But, if it is 10% cheaper on day 31 and 25% cheaper on day 61, many companies will wait -- rather than shifting down the price accordingly week by week.

3. Apple isn't a components company, with pricing shifting based on the market. The price is almost always constant for the life of the computer version. We would have 45 threads a minute on "Do you think the new Xcomputer will be cheaper next week?" That is a business decision for profitability and consistency.

4. Just because you want it sooner doesn't mean that whining will help.

+1 LOL

fearoftigers
Jun 9, 2010, 03:31 PM
I can see both sides of this issue.

I'm a music "pro" and am happily generating income with my 2008 eight core.
It is a fine machine and is doing everything I ask it to do.

Would I like more power?
Sure, I would like to have more headroom to be ready for the next generation of software.

Do I need more power?
Not at the moment.
In a day to day working environment, this machine is doing a great job.
I very seldom come up against any sessions where I can't get the results I want.

That being said, Apple is very secretive and non responsive about the next Mac Pro.

This is frustrating for the folks who are waiting to upgrade.
For the ultra high end high performance users, this is beyond frustrating.

The fact that the Mac Pro commands such a high price makes it even more vexing.
The OP has a great point.

The other side is that you can't blame a skunk for stinking.
Apple has demonstrated that this is the way they do this process... over and over again.

I'm willing to go with their particular scent because they have always provided me with capable, well integrated platforms.
OSX is excellent and for me, everything works really well.

I'll probably wait until this all shakes out and then buy the 2nd generation 36 core. ;-)

Couldn't agree more.

Anyone who's used Omnisphere will know how big some of the patches are (1gb +) so speed and ram really important.

Now 64 bit Logic is here it can use the processors and the ram and most of the plugins (at least the intensive ones) are going that way too.

More power please!

peakchua
Jun 10, 2010, 07:00 AM
i would think apple didnt want to do iphone sh%$ at wwdc but since jizzmodo ruined everything... i wouldnt eeven call wwdc 2010 wwcc i would call it IOSDC (ios developers confernecE) the point is, your products are outdated, they were PRO when it was released but guess what, ITS BEEN A YEAR AND A QUARTER. its disspointing how apple is t caught up with foxconn, ipad and iphone supplies, software updates. THE THING APPLE REALLY NEEDS TO GET CAUGHT UP ON IN ORDER IS THE MAC which in my prioprity is.

MAC PRO (SERIOUSLY, GT 120?)
MBA (9400M -_-)
SOFTWARE (COME ON, ILIFE 2009, IWORK 09, (PROS software)
APPLE TV (NOT ADVANCED)
IMAC (STILL USING 9400M)
MAC MINI (9400M T_T)
IPODS
OPERATING SYSTEM (STOP IPHONEYING) :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

peakchua
Jun 10, 2010, 07:04 AM
i completely want mac pro specs to be this

1 xeon x5680 or 1 i7 980x
2 tb standard (this thing needs to be reasonably priced if without display)
6 or 8 gb of standard ram
ATI RADEON HD 5850

2 xeon x5680 or 2 i7 980x
3 tb standard
8GB ram
ati radeon hd 5870

IF ITS THIS.. MAC PRO IS EXTREMELY POWERFUL

xgman
Jun 10, 2010, 08:51 AM
The majority of us aren't likely to switch to Windows or Linux, but will wait impatiently for whenever Apple finally decides to deal with this. The worst part of it is their utter silence and disregard for the entire subject of the Mac Pro. It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I am very disappointed in the way Apple handles the Mac product line, and this feeling isn't likely to go away magically after they finally do release a new MP because I know that it will happen again and again in the future.

telequest
Jun 10, 2010, 10:23 AM
The majority of us aren't likely to switch to Windows or Linux, but will wait impatiently for whenever Apple finally decides to deal with this. The worst part of it is their utter silence and disregard for the entire subject of the Mac Pro. It leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I am very disappointed in the way Apple handles the Mac product line, and this feeling isn't likely to go away magically after they finally do release a new MP because I know that it will happen again and again in the future.

+1

We have thrown in our lot with a monopolist supplier – as long as we stick with machines legally running OS X. In the many years that Apple made us a priority, dealing with a monopolist able to integrate hardware and software beautifully was a good tradeoff.

For our video-multimedia creative business, switching over to Windows sometime in the future would be a pain. We run the whole business on Mac – creative apps (FCS, Adobe CS), but also accounting, office apps, etc. But ever since Apple switched over to Intel, that has laid the groundwork for a wholesale switchover: The hardware would all still be just fine, unlike back in the PPC era when switching to a different OS would have made our existing computers obsolete.

And with the exception of FCS, all our main apps have exact or close Windows equivalents (some better-featured on Windows than OS X): Adobe CS, MS Office of course, Quickbooks.

I'd hate to give up Final Cut Pro. But Avid, Adobe, Sony etc. provide good alternatives on Windows. The learning curve would be the main hassle but a temporary one.

So for us, Final Cut Studio is the narrow tether tying us to Apple – and even that is fraying a bit.

In sum, Apple's business priorities may be making customers like us an afterthought at best, and if they forget us entirely, well business is business. But it remains to be seen if we beat them to the punch. It won't be personal, Apple. Business is business.

Topper
Jun 10, 2010, 10:50 AM
I am very disappointed in the way Apple handles the Mac product line, and this feeling isn't likely to go away magically after they finally do release a new MP because I know that it will happen again and again in the future.

It's Apple's modus operandi.
Maybe Apple's hands are tied waiting for Intel.
Maybe the developers are making applications for Apple's gadgets inside of the computers.
Maybe all of Apple's resources are tied up with their gadgets.

I've got a pc friend who has been waiting for a Mac Pro since March.
Thank god he has the patience of Job.
.

Digital Skunk
Jun 10, 2010, 11:30 AM
I'd hate to give up Final Cut Pro. But Avid, Adobe, Sony etc. provide good alternatives on Windows. The learning curve would be the main hassle but a temporary one.

So for us, Final Cut Studio is the narrow tether tying us to Apple – and even that is fraying a bit.

There not much of a learning curve with dealing with the other NLEs. Even finding out the nomenclature of the tools and features is a minor curve. Anyone considering the switch from FCP to any other NLE will find that they're going to pick it up and hit the floor running.

Premier is looking like a wonderful option for many multimedia professionals. Apple may know that fact and may be trying hard to keep that one piece of software on hand that a user just can't give up. For you it's FCP, for me it's Aperture and iWork Suite.

PeterQVenkman
Jun 10, 2010, 12:37 PM
i completely want mac pro specs to be this

1 xeon x5680 or 1 i7 980x
2 tb standard (this thing needs to be reasonably priced if without display)
6 or 8 gb of standard ram
ATI RADEON HD 5850

2 xeon x5680 or 2 i7 980x
3 tb standard
8GB ram
ati radeon hd 5870

IF ITS THIS.. MAC PRO IS EXTREMELY POWERFUL

Sounds great, but I don't think the i7 980x works in dual processor configs. :(

I'll take that single, though. Or I'll just get a 30% overclocked i7 980x machine from any number of PC vendors for less.

I'm stuck on an underpowered laptop 2.53 Ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro at home running C4d and Maya. Not fun for rendering. I sure could use some real power, but while I wait, I'm saving up my money. :)

Digital Skunk
Jun 10, 2010, 12:50 PM
i completely want mac pro specs to be this

1 xeon x5680 or 1 i7 980x
2 tb standard (this thing needs to be reasonably priced if without display)
6 or 8 gb of standard ram
ATI RADEON HD 5850

2 xeon x5680 or 2 i7 980x
3 tb standard
8GB ram
ati radeon hd 5870

IF ITS THIS.. MAC PRO IS EXTREMELY POWERFUL

Sounds great for those that just want to go to the store and pick it up then open the box, turn it on.

I'd rather Apple put the lowest common denominator tech into the box to bring the price down as low as possible, then give a custom option to get just the box, mobo, processors, and an OS disc, and let me stuff it with the hardware that I know I can find cheaper somewhere else.

It pains me to have to purchase so much useless tech in the Mac Pro only to have to pull it out and replace it with what it needs. I have stock drives from many a machine just sitting in my house collecting dust, or waiting for a drive to crash to be used.

Main point is, the 640GB in the Mac Pro is useless, and I'd rather Apple not charge me for it, especially when I have retired 1TBs just lying around that would make a better choice for a system drive.

ValSalva
Jun 10, 2010, 01:19 PM
Sounds great for those that just want to go to the store and pick it up then open the box, turn it on.

I'd rather Apple put the lowest common denominator tech into the box to bring the price down as low as possible, then give a custom option to get just the box, mobo, processors, and an OS disc, and let me stuff it with the hardware that I know I can find cheaper somewhere else.

It pains me to have to purchase so much useless tech in the Mac Pro only to have to pull it out and replace it with what it needs. I have stock drives from many a machine just sitting in my house collecting dust, or waiting for a drive to crash to be used.

Main point is, the 640GB in the Mac Pro is useless, and I'd rather Apple not charge me for it, especially when I have retired 1TBs just lying around that would make a better choice for a system drive.

That's a good point. The first thing that would go from a Mac Pro if I couldn't wait and had to buy the current model would be the 640GB HDD and the RAM. No way I'm paying Apple $1350 for 12GB of RAM when it can be had at OWC for about $450.

xgman
Jun 10, 2010, 02:26 PM
So does this make anyone feel better? I'm not convinced.

ClassicII
Jun 10, 2010, 03:28 PM
So does this make anyone feel better? I'm not convinced.

wait for what?

Techhie
Jun 10, 2010, 03:48 PM
So does this make anyone feel better? I'm not convinced.

Mr. Jobs should know that "saying" and "doing" are completely different things.

xgman
Jun 10, 2010, 03:50 PM
wait for what?


maybe WWDC 2011 or 2012 :rolleyes:

GreatDanton
Jun 10, 2010, 05:18 PM
Gosh you guys are fast on judging people! ja!

Techhie... one can be a "pro", an "enthusiast", or a little bit of both; but a masters degree and over 17 years of Marketing experience have taught me that as consumers, the purpose and application for each buy defines the particular motivations, and triggers different rational or emotional reactions regarding it.

Its just a shame your 17 years marketing experience and that generic piece of paper qualification that 200,000 students waltz out of university with every year hasn't taught you not to sell your **** before you can replace it.

Topper
Jun 10, 2010, 06:15 PM
maybe WWDC 2011 or 2012 :rolleyes:

I was thinking the same thing.
That's where we are going wrong, we are trying to guess when the 2010 Mac Pro will be released.
We really should be trying to predict when the 2011 Mac Pro will be launched.
.

Techhie
Jun 10, 2010, 06:57 PM
We really should be trying to predict when the 2011 Mac Pro will be launched.
.

Psh, how else would they get to use the "Mac Pro X" moniker? :rolleyes:

Unless it's on MacPro10,1 :p

Digital Skunk
Jun 10, 2010, 07:37 PM
That's a good point. The first thing that would go from a Mac Pro if I couldn't wait and had to buy the current model would be the 640GB HDD and the RAM. No way I'm paying Apple $1350 for 12GB of RAM when it can be had at OWC for about $450.

Right! Most computer companies I know that sell workstations don't put much into the system, leaving you to lobotomize your old rig or buy new parts to outfit it.

Or you can buy the parts for the 2nd party reseller if you'd like. Apple is the only one I know that sells a workstation with mediocre parts, and only gives you a choice to pay $300+ for a 2TB HDD while one can be had for much less.

zeigerpuppy
Jun 10, 2010, 08:28 PM
I was really looking forward to getting a Mac Pro in March this year but decided the price was too high and the wait too long, so built my own.
The vanilla installs of Snow Leopard with EFI are so good now that you can build a very fast machine and have future compatibility.
It's not illegal as some would claim, as long as you are happy not to ask Apple for support and buy a legit copy of Snow Leopard.

So the setup I used was Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7 motherboard with i7 920 and EVGA GTX 285. Cost less than $2000 AUD with 6GB RAM, 3 hard drives and Blu-ray burner. Can't beat that with a Mac Pro and it's Gulftown, USB 3.0 and eSATA ready. Don't get me wrong, I like apple hardware (still have a dual G5 PowerMac) but with the Mac Pro essentially being a PC anyway, it just doesn't make sense to pay the premium any more, especially when Apple continue to cripple their chipset bios to not allow processor upgrades and continue to have bottlenecks in the harddisk controllers.

Software updates work, all power management is perfect and it's actually faster than the equivalent 4 core Mac Pro (easily overclockable too). When there was an argument between PowerPC/Intel there was a good argument to get a Mac Pro, but waiting for Apple to release a product that they know is no longer competitive and having to deal with the bugs that come with small hardware runs are good arguments for building your own.
Please feel free to PM me for details.

codymac
Jun 10, 2010, 08:37 PM
So the setup I used was Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7 motherboard with i7 920 and EVGA GTX 285. Cost less than $2000 AUD with 6GB RAM, 3 hard drives and Blu-ray burner.

After waiting for the no show, I threw together a GA-X58A-UD3R with an i7 930 and 12gb this afternoon (reusing my 9600GT - I don't do graphics work).

I'm still waiting to see what becomes of the Mac Pro, but this will get be nicely in the interim.
;)

peakchua
Jun 11, 2010, 04:57 AM
Sounds great, but I don't think the i7 980x works in dual processor configs. :(

I'll take that single, though. Or I'll just get a 30% overclocked i7 980x machine from any number of PC vendors for less.

I'm stuck on an underpowered laptop 2.53 Ghz Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro at home running C4d and Maya. Not fun for rendering. I sure could use some real power, but while I wait, I'm saving up my money. :)



im hoping most likely xeon x5680 as i7 i thought could but had problems... good luck saving! :D

aliensporebomb
Jun 11, 2010, 03:40 PM
Say, all of you. Can you do me a favor?

Can all of you with Mac Pros go to http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/ and run the benchmarker?

I'm still running a G5 2.5 dual. 8 gigs of ram. nVidia 7800GS. I bench about 2312. It really does respectably but you could hardly call it "mega fast".

My wife's 3.06 core2 iMac benches nearly 5000.
An 8-core Mac Pro I tried at the local shop benched 11000.

Just curious to see what you all are benching out there. I find this a nicer testing environment versus cinebench.

Ah, the G5. How far we've come....

Yes it's served as my "room heater", yes it's leaked once. I know it's time is nearly up because we had a power transformer blow up on a pole nearby and the machine took a hit unfortunately even though it was on a very spendy isobar surge suppressor.

It's still working but for how long is unknown. So I'm biding my time - I don't need a replacement immediately but if it dies I need to jump pretty quick.

I'm in the middle of finishing a music project I've been working on for five years and if it dies before completion = OUCH. Yes, everything is backed up in quadruple now so no worries about data loss but...the loss of momentum having to get all my apps and data migrated - yeesh.

I'm pretty sure one of the Corei7 iMacs would be fast enough for my uses at the moment BUT like the music producer who blew it up inside 10 days running multiple Omnispheres leads me to believe I'd need Applecare on it (a good idea with any expensive Apple product) or I'd be doomed. And I run my machine 24/7 for years on end so the long term longevity doesn't look very well.

My concern is: I really like the tower cases where I can put multiple satas in there and lots of ram. I go thru hard drive space like a fiend. I write 250 music projects in a year, my little project studio has people who come in for various projects they can't do in their own studios and those folks help keep me in $ so I can afford to replace this.

The iMacs can have 16 gig ram but what if I want more? So a Mac Pro would make more sense for me and it's what I'm used to. I like the idea of multiple drives in the tower.

Thinking: I can wait, but no later than this fall I'm thinking. I'm already running on an obsolete platform (PPC) but it's so overbuilt I rarely hit the wall with it. So I carry on.

I can wait. For now.