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View Full Version : no new MBA - will you wait?




gyus
Jun 10, 2010, 12:16 PM
Im in the market for the updated MBA, as much of you people are. I'm pretty confident that the new specs are gong to be 4 GB RAM and 320M video card. Just wanted to know if your going to wait and if so, how long do you think its going to be?

End of summer ?

End of the year?



celo48
Jun 10, 2010, 12:39 PM
I will wait. In the meantime, I will be using my 4 year old Macbook :)

Cheffy Dave
Jun 10, 2010, 12:42 PM
Yep, I'm waiting, quite happy with my iPad,and BMB. I'm not buying till Scottsdale says so!!!!!:eek:
Welcome back BTW! Heard you went to Aruba while you were in T.O.:rolleyes:

Spacekatgal
Jun 10, 2010, 12:43 PM
Just put it on eBay and Craig's List. I'm jumping ship.

Bri

Dr. B
Jun 10, 2010, 02:21 PM
I am a devout Mac user, and I was frustrated with the wait. I had a 2 year old 17" Macbook Pro - great computer, just too big and heavy to carry around. I too wanted a Macbook Air, but frankly wasn't going to pay for OLD technology, the heat issue, poor battery life, etc.

I bought a 15" new Core I7 Macbook Pro with the High Res Anti-Glare Screen. I am OVER THE MOON. It's fast, sleek, and POWERFUL...and I don't even give up having a drive. It's small enough to EASILY fit on my backpack and on a tray table. Frankly, I'm GLAD I didn't go with a Macbook Air. I paid scarcely more than I would have for a Macbook Air, and I have a nice, THIN, and awesomely versatile computer.

Just a thought...:)

gyus
Jun 10, 2010, 02:25 PM
Im getting a little frustrated, but it looks like my G4 powerbook is going to have to last a little longer.....

DiamondGCoupe
Jun 10, 2010, 02:32 PM
Um just get a 13" MBP guys it's not much heavier far superior

pharmx
Jun 10, 2010, 02:36 PM
I am a devout Mac user, and I was frustrated with the wait. I had a 2 year old 17" Macbook Pro - great computer, just too big and heavy to carry around. I too wanted a Macbook Air, but frankly wasn't going to pay for OLD technology, the heat issue, poor battery life, etc.

I bought a 15" new Core I7 Macbook Pro with the High Res Anti-Glare Screen. I am OVER THE MOON. It's fast, sleek, and POWERFUL...and I don't even give up having a drive. It's small enough to EASILY fit on my backpack and on a tray table. Frankly, I'm GLAD I didn't go with a Macbook Air. I paid scarcely more than I would have for a Macbook Air, and I have a nice, THIN, and awesomely versatile computer.

Just a thought...:)

Are you seriously comparing a 5.6 pound 15" laptop, to a 3 pound 13" ultra-portable? Unless you are going forward with the mindset that you just want a laptop made by Apple....why would anyone considering an MBA buy the 15" MBP? The 13" MBP or even an iPad would be much more suitable alternatives. As awesome as the 15" MBP is, it's way too big and way too heavy for someone who was originally planning on buying an MBA.

thinkdesign
Jun 10, 2010, 02:52 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

Part of the "wait or buy" calculation, is that if one has paid a price by waiting... the longer you wait and then give in and buy (in my case buy a SSD-120 model, new/old, which is too little memory for me).... the harder you'll be kicking yourself IF it turns out that, just a LITTLE more waiting would have succeeded in - money better spent. It's gambling in the dark. ----- In my case, the decision involves juggling 5 or 6 computer factors, and 3 financial/personal ones. I have money to spend, not to waste. If it were a quantifiable problem, it'd be a big trigonometry problem in search of a formula. I'm comparing losses-by-buying-now Vs. losses-by-waiting. A lose-lose quandry. It's the most complex and difficult buying decision I've ever had to make. Sigh.

Scottsdale
Jun 10, 2010, 03:02 PM
I suspect the wait will equal < 6 weeks or > 4 months. If there are Mac mini and 21.5" iMac updates to the 320m, and still no MBA, then it's October 2010 or January 2011 before the MBA gets its update.

I still believe it's more likely that the MBA gets its update in the next six weeks. I believe it will have the 320m just as will the Mac mini and 21.5" iMacs. It is cheaper to make all MacFive products with the same component makeup then to keep making batches of old and new. However, there's the possibility that the MBA's sales are so poor that Apple made say 50,000 logicboards that could be installed in new MBAs as needed over the next four to six months. It all comes down to costs and quantities needed to fulfill demand.

However, if we think about Apple's motive to sell Macs, surely it knows what we know, an update to just 4 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD could maybe quadruple the MBA's best sales quarter ever. The average MBA user isn't concerned about faster CPUs nor even a faster GPU, they're concerned with RAM and drive space increases.

I will wait, until Apple releases a new MBA or my current MBA no longer fulfills my needs. Right now it's fulfilling my needs, but it is failing to fulfill my wants. I want more RAM and a glass trackpad more than anything else...

gyus
Jun 10, 2010, 03:23 PM
Welcome back ScotD,

Will the 320M make the MBA run cooler? If so i'll wait....

gwsat
Jun 10, 2010, 03:31 PM
The long delay in an MBA update makes me glad that my tried and true MBP still has 9 months of Applecare coverage remaining. My old Powerbook G4 withstood 5 years of everyday use so I see no reason why the MBP can't last for 3 years. Anyway I have been in the throes of dealing with a bunch of home repair expenses, for reasons that are too dreary to go into here, to worry much right now about a new MBA.

alexandero
Jun 10, 2010, 03:34 PM
What I'd want is a MBP without DVD drive, that should reduce its weight and size significantly..

Maybe the reason why there's no new MBA is that the next revision of MBPs might get rid of the DVD drive, and then the 13" will more or less have the size of today's MBA.

Scottsdale
Jun 10, 2010, 04:01 PM
What I'd want is a MBP without DVD drive, that should reduce its weight and size significantly..

Maybe the reason why there's no new MBA is that the next revision of MBPs might get rid of the DVD drive, and then the 13" will more or less have the size of today's MBA.

Actually, those that remove their optical drives from their Macs notice very little difference in weight. I believe Apple should offer discrete GPUs in 13" MBPs and get rid of the optical drive. The optical drive is just about worthless unless it's BluRay. Apple needs to start innovating with the Macs again. I can think up some great ways, but Apple seems too focused on its damn iOS and the products that run it.

Remember that the heaviest component in the MBP is the battery. It is the battery that keeps the MBP from being an MBA and not the optical drive. The optical drive probably doesn't make the MBP any thicker either as it needs that thickness to keep the battery as capable as it is.

This is why I don't expect a 10-hour battery in the MBA. They make a 10-hour MBA but it's sold as a 13" MBP. For those that are "disgusted" or "bullied" that I want a 5-hour battery in the MBA, understand why the MBP weighs more than the MBA... I for the life of me don't understand how it's condescending to not want a 10-hour battery in the MBA but it has been said, about me.

In the end, I do believe that we will ultimately get MBPs and MBs that are much thinner and lose their optical drives. It shows with Apple patent applications that they're searching for new cooling methods (liquids) and more capable batteries that weigh less and are much thinner. I suppose we're a few years away still, but I think the MBA design/concept will find its way to all Mac notebooks when the technology exists. Apple is a mobility company, so why not make Macs more mobile.

halledise
Jun 10, 2010, 04:20 PM
heeeeeyyyy Scotters! - welcome back :D

things have been pretty quiet since you been gone.
how was the holiday - gave your fingers a chance to recuperate I guess

gwsat
Jun 10, 2010, 04:39 PM
Remember that the heaviest component in the MBP is the battery. It is the battery that keeps the MBP from being an MBA and not the optical drive. The optical drive probably doesn't make the MBP any thicker either as it needs that thickness to keep the battery as capable as it is.

This is why I don't expect a 10-hour battery in the MBA. They make a 10-hour MBA but it's sold as a 13" MBP.
You are right that you can have either a 10 hour battery or a 3 pound ultra lightweight computer but not both. Every laptop design involves a series of compromises and the battery endurance versus weight dichotomy is a classic example of one of them. I don't know whether the 13 inch MBP's larger battery is totally responsible for its being 1.5 pounds heavier than the MBA but it is certainly the reason for the bulk of the difference.

Scottsdale
Jun 10, 2010, 04:57 PM
Welcome back ScotD,

Will the 320M make the MBA run cooler? If so i'll wait....

Thanks

It does have a lower TDP, but I believe Apple would de-throttle the C2D CPU and attempt at the same total TDP.

So, it depends. Maybe, maybe not.

heeeeeyyyy Scotters! - welcome back :D

things have been pretty quiet since you been gone.
how was the holiday - gave your fingers a chance to recuperate I guess

thanks... yes, according to the moderator the word "ONETWO" where ONE=Fan and TWO=Boi is an "insult" and "offensive" if a user complains. Over 4,000 other results didn't have complaints reported so was acceptable usage in those situations because moderators only ban on "reported abusers."

I did also note that many criticized me and, in my opinion, said far worse things about me than my usage of the term "ONETWO" where ONE=Fan and TWO=Boi. Some also were positive and supportive. Interestingly, the positive posts have been removed as "off topic" while many of the original negative posts remain. I suppose life isn't "fair."

Note... pharmx might just want to change his quote as it includes an "offensive" and "insulting" word.

Caem
Jun 10, 2010, 04:59 PM
For me the point of no return is when iPhone 4 is released, I want a laptop so I will buy the "new" MBA or current MBP 13" 2.4 at end of july (Sweden).

pharmx
Jun 10, 2010, 05:17 PM
Thanks

It does have a lower TDP, but I believe Apple would de-throttle the C2D CPU and attempt at the same total TDP.

So, it depends. Maybe, maybe not.



thanks... yes, according to the moderator the word "ONETWO" where ONE=Fan and TWO=Boi is an "insult" and "offensive" if a user complains. Over 4,000 other results didn't have complaints reported so was acceptable usage in those situations because moderators only ban on "reported abusers."

I did also note that many criticized me and, in my opinion, said far worse things about me than my usage of the term "ONETWO" where ONE=Fan and TWO=Boi. Some also were positive and supportive. Interestingly, the positive posts have been removed as "off topic" while many of the original negative posts remain. I suppose life isn't "fair."

Note... pharmx might just want to change his quote as it includes an "offensive" and "insulting" word.

Welcome back Scottsdale :D

Lol, I'm not going to change my quote, nor am I going to avoid using the term "fanboi". Not that I use it that much to begin with, lol. I was thinking about actually linking the terms "fanboi", "hater", and "troll" from my sig, to certain profiles who frequent the main page discussions and spew absolute nonsense....but came to the conclusion that it would probably just land me in trouble even though the shoe fits.

At any rate, I'm still waiting for Apple's decision with respect to the Air :mad:

theappleguy
Jun 10, 2010, 06:18 PM
I need a new laptop before I go overseas for six months at the end of August (my current MacBook Air's hard drive at 80GB isn't big enough, the fans destroy battery life - the battery itself is actually still very good, and I have no sound or mic anymore so not really that usable).

I will wait until then to see if a new MacBook Air comes out, otherwise I'll probably get a MacBook and sell it when I get back.

wildjohn999
Jun 10, 2010, 06:36 PM
I'm definitely waiting for at least 4GB of ram in the next series of MBA. In fact if Apple just did that I would be very happy since the 9400M is fine for my needs. Shoot if Apple had some kind of authorized program where I could send this MBA in and they would solder in the 4GB of ram I would be doubly happy.

I guess my new i7 iMac will have to tide me over until the next MBA release. :D

Scottsdale
Jun 10, 2010, 06:40 PM
I need a new laptop before I go overseas for six months at the end of August (my current MacBook Air's hard drive at 80GB isn't big enough, the fans destroy battery life - the battery itself is actually still very good, and I have no sound or mic anymore so not really that usable).

I will wait until then to see if a new MacBook Air comes out, otherwise I'll probably get a MacBook and sell it when I get back.

The white MacBook or the 27" iMac are by far the best values in any current Macs. If I had to buy a new Mac notebook, it would be a MB. If I had to buy a new Mac desktop, it would be a 27" iMac.

Hopefully Apple will give us all a new real reason to believe the MBA is again a Mac worth buying... especially at these prices. I find it disgusting that not only does Apple not update the MBA, they demand the same ridiculous prices as they have for over a year.

I hope Apple gives you the opportunity to buy a new MBA before you leave in August.

halledise
Jun 10, 2010, 06:56 PM
Welcome back Scottsdale :D

Lol, I'm not going to change my quote, nor am I going to avoid using the term "fanboi". Not that I use it that much to begin with, lol. I was thinking about actually linking the terms "fanboi", "hater", and "troll" from my sig, to certain profiles who frequent the main page discussions and spew absolute nonsense....but came to the conclusion that it would probably just land me in trouble even though the shoe fits.

At any rate, I'm still waiting for Apple's decision with respect to the Air :mad:

I'm a great FAN of Macs and BOI does it get frustrating TROLLING thru the net to see when we're gonna get an updated Air. I Hate it.

gee some people are sensitive about semantics, aren't they?

tolerance for all except when you tread on my toes. :eek:
get rooted is what i reckon.

oh and by the way when you Americans speak about 'rooting for my team' we Aussies have a quiet chuckle, since that term means something quite different down under … … …

alexandero
Jun 10, 2010, 07:09 PM
I don't know whether the 13 inch MBP's larger battery is totally responsible for its being 1.5 pounds heavier than the MBA but it is certainly the reason for the bulk of the difference.

Based on this information (http://www.powerbookmedic.com/Unibody-Macbook-Pro-Superdrive-UJ-868-95mm-SATA-UltraSlim-Slot-Loading-p-17261.html) the SuperDrive weighs 1 pound. In other words, there doesn't seem to be a big difference in battery weight between the MBA and the MBP, especially if you consider that there are a few other components the MBA misses, e.g. a couple of ports.

I therefor still think that next MBP will lose its optical drive (plus that 1 lbs) and feature a thinner, MBA-like case. And who knows, maybe they'll then call the MBP 13" the "MBA", while keeping the "pro" label to the 15" and 17" MBPs.

If I'm correct, we'll not see any MBA refresh until the next MBP refresh, which will arrive between november and january.

stonyc
Jun 10, 2010, 08:16 PM
Based on this information (http://www.powerbookmedic.com/Unibody-Macbook-Pro-Superdrive-UJ-868-95mm-SATA-UltraSlim-Slot-Loading-p-17261.html) the SuperDrive weighs 1 pound. In other words, there doesn't seem to be a big difference in battery weight between the MBA and the MBP, especially if you consider that there are a few other components the MBA misses, e.g. a couple of ports.

I therefor still think that next MBP will lose its optical drive (plus that 1 lbs) and feature a thinner, MBA-like case. And who knows, maybe they'll then call the MBP 13" the "MBA", while keeping the "pro" label to the 15" and 17" MBPs.

If I'm correct, we'll not see any MBA refresh until the next MBP refresh, which will arrive between november and january.
That weight is probably their shipping weight for the unit. I've taken a superdrive out of a PB before, and assuming they're similar design/weight/etc... it did not feel like 1 pound of weight in my hand.

phil123
Jun 10, 2010, 08:23 PM
My "theory" (or is a fools hope) is that the new MBA will offer us long suffering apple fans what we really want - a 13" high res, matte, macbook. Since we new the culv chips are coming in the fall, i just pray that we'll get a refresh with high res. And you'd think it would make sense too from their part as that aspect would certainly be a key driver of sales.

I love the 15" high res anti gloss, but the darn thing is just too big, weighs too much for my uses.

thinkdesign
Jun 10, 2010, 08:45 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

"...the fans destroy battery life..." I hadn't seen it put that way, before. So if you're sitting in a hot park. working with a battery headed for exhaustion... adjourning to an air-conditioned cafe can save the day? Even though all the cafe's outlets are taped over? Who knew?

theappleguy
Jun 10, 2010, 09:54 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

"...the fans destroy battery life..." I hadn't seen it put that way, before. So if you're sitting in a hot park. working with a battery headed for exhaustion... adjourning to an air-conditioned cafe can save the day? Even though all the cafe's outlets are taped over? Who knew?

I mean if the fans are running the whole time, the battery runs down faster. For example, I get three hours on a good day if the fans don't kick in much. If they run fast the whole time then it is significantly less. This is perhaps obvious, but given the fans run above their minimum speed so much of the time on a MacBook Air it is certainly an important thing to consider when thinking about battery life. Normally you can slow them down by restarting and putting it to sleep for a few minutes, but you don't really have that luxury when taking notes in class. :p

ludavico
Jun 10, 2010, 10:11 PM
Are you seriously comparing a 5.6 pound 15" laptop, to a 3 pound 13" ultra-portable? Unless you are going forward with the mindset that you just want a laptop made by Apple....why would anyone considering an MBA buy the 15" MBP? The 13" MBP or even an iPad would be much more suitable alternatives. As awesome as the 15" MBP is, it's way too big and way too heavy for someone who was originally planning on buying an MBA.

The new i7 15" MBA is truly fantastic ( I just got one to replace my mid-2007 17" MBP), but I have to agree with pharmx...comparing it to a MBA is chalk to cheese. Too heavy.

Geesus, cant bloody believe the MBA was not upgraded...

Took a hard look at the iPad again and still no dice (for me). Ditto for the Sony.

Oh well...

thinkdesign
Jun 10, 2010, 10:22 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

This "mobility" stuff sounds a lot more futuristically romantic in the abstract, than it is in the real nitty gritty. My actual "mobile" life involves keeping track of: (1.) Where can I sit down often enough, to rest my arthritic bones?, (2.) Where are the bathrooms, for my aging plumbing's frequency?, and (3.) where are the elec. outlets to charge my e-things so they can last all day? (The new food chain in NYC where everything's 500 calories or less... Energy Kitchen, does have outlets near some tables, and has bathrooms too. Add in the chairs, and it's a perfect trifecta! Busy in PM, but in AM mostly empty so you can linger and work...). ------ Item #(4.) that I juggle would be - Where are the free Wi-Fi's?, but I've given up on that. They're nearly all locked up, even if a first glance at the list seems to say some are unlocked. Try to connect, and Boom! it IS locked. (My small city was going to start muni Wi-Fi downtown, but it never happened.) I wish Rip Van Jobs would wake up to THAT reality, and offer 3G modems, already!

soph
Jun 11, 2010, 02:12 AM
I suspect the wait will equal < 6 weeks or > 4 months. If there are Mac mini and 21.5" iMac updates to the 320m, and still no MBA, then it's October 2010 or January 2011 before the MBA gets its update.


While < 6weeks would certainly fulfill my wishes (and from that aspect < 2 weeks are what I really hope for) I strongly suspect a > 4 months update would give me a better product.

How probable do you estimate the possibility of an upgrade < 6weeks and another one around January 2011 (ie final good-bye to C2D)?

abriwin
Jun 11, 2010, 04:31 AM
I would really love the MBA but price and limitations put me off. Only one usb port, no firewire, the need for a dedicated CD (although admittedly it would rarely be needed or used apart from running Diskwarrior) and the dodgy hinges.

I wonder if Apple have something up their sleeve having gone for a flat design with the new iPhone/Touch maybe they are going the same way with the Air?

Then the iPad.
At first I was totally against it for not having a USB port or an sd slot and no full OS but when iOS becomes available they will be one step closer to a full OS. Then there are all those lovely Apps that dont run on an Air or a MBP. I want/need something light to travel with.

I still have my trusty old 15" PB G4 which although slow by modern standards still does most of my work and still looks new, the sign of a good design. However it is far too heavy to travel with for three weeks. (I remember being criticised for saying it was too heavy for travel and now I see folks talking about getting a 13" MBP lighter by removing the CD drive)

So the iPad looks like it might after all fill my needs for travel. At 700 with case and sd/usb adapters, it's a lot cheaper than a MBA (which I'd still need to buy a case for) and half the weight. All I need to do now is discover whether a 3G iPad bought in Europe/UK will work in Japan?

Joe23
Jun 11, 2010, 04:46 AM
Didn't the MacBook Air pave the way for the aluminium unibody design? The same unibody design that subsequently got carried forward into the new MacBook Pros and to some extent, the white MacBook?

It wouldn't be wholly unreasonable to assume that Apple would again use the Air as a launchpad to showcase a new style of design, perhaps something more in line with the iPhone 4; dropping some of the curves to free up internal space for a larger battery, etc.

This is, of course, just a bunch of wild speculation, but that's what this site is all about isn't it?

ChemGolf
Jun 11, 2010, 04:58 AM
I need an ultraportable laptop in January next year the very latest. So, yes, I'll wait and hope for an upgrade...

dudup
Jun 11, 2010, 05:28 AM
The white MacBook or the 27" iMac are by far the best values in any current Macs. If I had to buy a new Mac notebook, it would be a MB. If I had to buy a new Mac desktop, it would be a 27" iMac.

Totally second that!

5 months ago I've received one of those new MB at work -- I was using my own MBA previously. It's a very good and reliable machine.

Right after that, I've decided to clean up some space on my home office and got rid of a lot stuff (mac mini + lcd display/tv) for a 27" iMac and it's quite phenomenal, simply the best Mac I've ever used.

Since then, I haven't been using my MBA as much, only for DJing once in a week. My current setup now requires two usb ports (shame on me), and I've been thinking about trading the MBA for a MB, specially after this last refresh.

But I can't let go its wonderful design. And even though I've been using a true desktop-class Core i5 one the iMac and everything, the MBA feels faster 99% of the time, thanks to its SSD -- even though Apple's SSD isn't that good. Those things kinda compensate the lameness of using a USB hub for a data-hungry operation like real time audio mixing.

However I must admit that now that my MBA is approaching 1 year and it's time to think about renewing its Applecare, I'm becoming more and more tempted to sell it, buy a brand new MB and still get some cash back.

dudup
Jun 11, 2010, 05:40 AM
Also I would like to give my 2 cents about the "MBA versus iPad" dilemma:

I don't think they are competing products. You can have both and be very happy with them. It's just a matter of how much you need OS X on the go. If you need it so bad and so often, the MBA on its SSD version is still a fair choice, unless you need to work with virtualization.

But if you can live without OS X on a trip, I can't lie to you: the 27" iMac will give you way more value over any Apple laptop in terms of cpu, gpu, display, storage and expandability (more ports, up to 16gb ram, etc). And the iPad is all that, even from a MBA lover perspective -- after all, we love thinness, don't we? :)

Anyway,

Currently I have a 27" iMac, a MBA and an iPad. If I have to give up one of these, I would give up the iMac, even if it's my primary machine now. But only because I still can't DJ with the iPad -- my setup is OS X based.

Weren't I a DJ, I would easily give up the MBA, since the iPad fully address my mobility needs -- I'm a product manager, I don't need nothing more than iWork, email and calendar to get my work done. iOS totally fulfills that.

gwsat
Jun 11, 2010, 08:44 AM
The white MacBook or the 27" iMac are by far the best values in any current Macs. If I had to buy a new Mac notebook, it would be a MB. If I had to buy a new Mac desktop, it would be a 27" iMac.
I agree that the white MB is a great value but I hate that white case. In fact, I hate is so much, I wouldn't buy a white MB, despite what a great value it is, because I wouldn't want to be seen with it.:)

More seriously, I agree that the 27 inch iMac is the best choice in the Mac desktop lineup, by far.

Zulu1
Jun 11, 2010, 09:18 AM
I for one will wait. I need a new Apple laptop as my G4 is full, but alass I am tired of waiting, so I've kept busy with my Window 7 tablet, and no; an ipad just doesn't cut it for my. I am not a fanboy (ONETWO), but I have always been an Apple user as I get the most out of their systems, but they need to step up with the new Air or claim it to be dead.

I need more RAM, SSD, and yes I would like two USD ports, and longer battery. Other than that keep it cool, but the CPU's should be fine, and I hope for a GPU update.

The sad fact for me is I think Apple will not do anything until the new year to make sure the CPU vendors ( you know who you are) get their "acts" and supply chain inline.
I can dream can't I....

Spacekatgal
Jun 11, 2010, 11:01 AM
The new i7 15" MBA is truly fantastic ( I just got one to replace my mid-2007 17" MBP), but I have to agree with pharmx...comparing it to a MBA is chalk to cheese. Too heavy.

Geesus, cant bloody believe the MBA was not upgraded...

Took a hard look at the iPad again and still no dice (for me). Ditto for the Sony.

Oh well...

I also have this computer, the i7 MBP with the high rez screen. It is such an amazing box. I have tried for years to get a computer that could do my workflow, and the one-two punch of this machine and the 64 bit CS5 suite finally did it. Obviously, it's not an ultraportable - but with the iPad you have a good mix of options.

The battery life is not the best, though. There are times when I can only get two hours on a charge - using both my battery-sucking Wacom and the discrete GPU for heavy PS work.

bluescity
Jun 11, 2010, 11:43 AM
I agree that the white MB is a great value but I hate that white case. In fact, I hate is so much, I wouldn't buy a white MB, despite what a great value it is, because I wouldn't want to be seen with it.:)
.

+1. Of course, I'm not not a trustworthy contributor, given my recent purchase of the 13''MBP. I have to believe whatever will protect me from buyers remorse. ;)

By the way, good to have you back Scottsdale. I was intrigued by your earlier comment about Apple's new patents and what they might mean. Perhaps in 2-3 years none of will have to be making the choices that are driving all these threads.

Spacekatgal
Jun 11, 2010, 11:58 AM
I agree that the white MB is a great value but I hate that white case. In fact, I hate is so much, I wouldn't buy a white MB, despite what a great value it is, because I wouldn't want to be seen with it.:)

More seriously, I agree that the 27 inch iMac is the best choice in the Mac desktop lineup, by far.

Gee, I think the white macbook is a good deal, but a bad idea in the long run. I have no confidence the case won't crack. The aluminum alone makes the 13 inch MBP an attractive upgrade.

gwsat
Jun 11, 2010, 12:06 PM
+1. Of course, I'm not not a trustworthy contributor, given my recent purchase of the 13''MBP. I have to believe whatever will protect me from buyers remorse. ;)
I really like the 13 inch MBP, too. My daughter gave my 17 year old grandson a 13 inch MBP as a combination high school graduation and birthday gift. My grandson is spending a couple of days with me. He went to lunch with a friend today, so I am working Mac Rumors with his new MBP while he is gone. I have been surfing the Web with it for more than an hour and the battery icon still shows 8:58 battery life remaining. That's not chopped liver. It is an impressive little machine. I still may end up buying a 13 inch MBP and upgrading it with 8Gb of RAM and a 256Gb SSD, rather than buying an upgraded MBA -- it there ever is an upgraded MBA.

Scottsdale
Jun 11, 2010, 01:24 PM
Gee, I think the white macbook is a good deal, but a bad idea in the long run. I have no confidence the case won't crack. The aluminum alone makes the 13 inch MBP an attractive upgrade.

Funny you say that. I have just the opposite opinion. I took my two kids to the Apple Store, which is now my son's favorite store (he likes being like daddy). Anyways, I took them in to get, the then new, unibody white MBs. I really felt like for two young children plastic was the way to go. I didn't want them to have aluminum which dent very easily when dropped or bumped into things. However, my daughter wanted the "cool metal" MBP as it matches her "silver and pink" backpack which she carries it in. Therefore it was two aluminum 13" MBPs for them. Couldn't use MBAs as they need DVD drives.

So it all comes down to opinions and probably the situation. I think kids are far better off with plastic MBs over aluminum MBPs. But for someone that doesn't "plan" on dropping their notebook maybe the MBP is more durable. I am actually amazed because both of their Macs are six months old and they both look like brand new, minus a few stickers. Another thing is I find optical drives to be pretty much worthless, but for kids they're a necessity to watch DVD movies.

I still feel the white MBs offer the best value for someone wanting to get into Macs and OS X. Another nice thing is the $729 price tag refurbished with plastic unibody and 9400m GPU. I don't know if the unibody design has eliminated the cracking or not? Anyone know if the newer unibody MBs crack?

Spacekatgal
Jun 11, 2010, 01:37 PM
Funny you say that. I have just the opposite opinion. I took my two kids to the Apple Store, which is now my son's favorite store (he likes being like daddy). Anyways, I took them in to get, the then new, unibody white MBs. I really felt like for two young children plastic was the way to go. I didn't want them to have aluminum which dent very easily when dropped or bumped into things. However, my daughter wanted the "cool metal" MBP as it matches her "silver and pink" backpack which she carries it in. Therefore it was two aluminum 13" MBPs for them. Couldn't use MBAs as they need DVD drives.

So it all comes down to opinions and probably the situation. I think kids are far better off with plastic MBs over aluminum MBPs. But for someone that doesn't "plan" on dropping their notebook maybe the MBP is more durable. I am actually amazed because both of their Macs are six months old and they both look like brand new, minus a few stickers. Another thing is I find optical drives to be pretty much worthless, but for kids they're a necessity to watch DVD movies.

I still feel the white MBs offer the best value for someone wanting to get into Macs and OS X. Another nice thing is the $729 price tag refurbished with plastic unibody and 9400m GPU. I don't know if the unibody design has eliminated the cracking or not? Anyone know if the newer unibody MBs crack?


No, I'd probably agree with that for a child - though being a parent and buying this stuff for kids is a totally different universe. I just can't imagine. Does a child really need the Firewire and other features of a pro laptop?

Actually, come to think of it - it's my opinion that a desktop would be great for a kid. You learn so much taking them apart and upgrading them, or at least I did.

I've had a quite different thought, and that's if I ever had an accident on my motorcycle, my MBP would probably be pretty decent back protection armor. I wear it in a MacCase Flight Jacket in backpack mode. Ah, the differing worlds of those that choose to have kids, and those that choose not to.

I haven't heard reports of the current MBs cracking, and I do think the new unibody design will protect against it somewhat. But still. The last gen Macbook cracked like crazy. The white iPhone cracks like crazy. Is there any reason to believe this also won't crack? I don't think so.

entatlrg
Jun 11, 2010, 01:51 PM
I really like the 13 inch MBP, too. My daughter gave my 17 year old grandson a 13 inch MBP as a combination high school graduation and birthday gift. My grandson is spending a couple of days with me. He went to lunch with a friend today, so I am working Mac Rumors with his new MBP while he is gone. I have been surfing the Web with it for more than an hour and the battery icon still shows 8:58 battery life remaining. That's not chopped liver. It is an impressive little machine. I still may end up buying a 13 inch MBP and upgrading it with 8Gb of RAM and a 256Gb SSD, rather than buying an upgraded MBA -- it there ever is an upgraded MBA.

For me, the 13" MBP has been a better replacement for my MacBook Air than I expected. I've definitely gotten over the difference in weight and I have to admit each day I use it I'm seeing it more and more as an adequate replacement for my MacBook Air. I do like the extra battery life, the power, extra ports, even the SD card slot has come in handy, I could do without the DVD.

So, this is a good thing, right? I should be happy my 13" MBP filled the gap my Air left behind better than I expected it would, right?

Hell, NO. :eek: It's not a good thing. Because if Steve Jobs and the staff at Apple are sharing the same feelings, that 'hey for now we'll let the Air ride or slide or fade away and the 13" MBP is fine for a more powerful option', then us MacBook Air fans are in trouble.

In that case I would expect the Air to be EOL'd under the premise that the 13" MBP will only get thinner in Q1 2011 and maybe have an option for or eliminate the built in DVD...

Who knows it's all speculation but sure is interesting to see where Apple goes with 'premium ultra portable notebooks'. The iPad cannot fill that gap and at 4.5lbs, with C2D processor in the 13" MBP it's not going to get recognized in that class. In a way, shouldn't Apple be embarrassed, the company that's known for leading and innovation is missing a market that's still big, important, and gets a lot of attention from people in the tech circles.

At it stands now Apple is happy meeting the needs of the basic consumer, getting the iPad in grandma and granpa's hands and anyone else who's a light computer user ...

It's obvious where followers of this forum fit in with those plans for now anyway :D But if former MBA owners all start getting happy with the 13" MBP as a replacement, (as I am), then it makes me think more about where the Air is going to fit into all this. Maybe there's a chance it's simple been squeezed out due to the iPad and 13" MBP.

thinkdesign
Jun 11, 2010, 02:07 PM
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On the Macbook forum, recently there were reports that the plastic still cracks, where the little soft bumpers strike the other half (leaf?). Unbeleivable.

Even Ikea has testing machines to test this sort of thing... they even have a couple of these mechanical testing machines on display in my local Ikea, one endlessly testing a chair seat, and another endlessly testing cabinet hardware, every 5 seconds or so. Ikea can afford to own hundreds of these machines; and so I wonder, how many does Apple own ? Did they ever TEST their 2 most damage-prone laptops this way?

Jobs has obsessed over the glass staircases to the extent that the architect had to let only Apple use the patent, and Jobs parlayed his little client-type whims and CEO status into getting himself listed as "co-inventor". (Nonsense. He came to the table knowing nothing about staircases.) Maybe the time spent there, explains why he has not focussed enough on the Macbook and Macbook Air's weak cases? Of course Apple has PLENTY of other employees who know even better how to do that... but I wonder if perhaps Jobs is egotistically micro-managing everyone in the design studio building so much, that he won't LET them???

That'll be $900. to fix your case because we pretend it was user's abuse in some cases.... but enjoy the glass staircase on your way out!

SJ has his strong points, but Apple like other firms is secretive enough that we may never know how much he's being over-credited for specific things in the media. Perhaps when Jobs retires, Ive will finally emerge from SJ's shadow and really bloom as a designer? And truly become the new Dieter Rams... which ignorant reporters and others sometimes say Jon Ive already is. Bosh. Did any of Rams's designs crack? Not that I've ever heard of.

IMHO Apple may already be at the point where they should give Jobs a part-time position of Senior Philosopher Prince - For Life, and let someone else run the company.

gwsat
Jun 11, 2010, 02:24 PM
IMHO Apple may already be at the point where they should give Jobs a part-time position of Senior Philosopher Prince - For Life, and let someone else run the company.
How did it work out for Apple the last time they squeezed Jobs out?:)

entatlrg
Jun 11, 2010, 02:52 PM
People sure bash Steve Jobs a lot around here. I'll never understand it. I dare to say no one on these forum knows the man well enough to cut him up, what's the point? Enjoy what he and Apple has to over ... or don't.

tim100
Jun 11, 2010, 03:44 PM
I really like the 13 inch MBP, too. My daughter gave my 17 year old grandson a 13 inch MBP as a combination high school graduation and birthday gift. My grandson is spending a couple of days with me. He went to lunch with a friend today, so I am working Mac Rumors with his new MBP while he is gone. I have been surfing the Web with it for more than an hour and the battery icon still shows 8:58 battery life remaining. That's not chopped liver. It is an impressive little machine. I still may end up buying a 13 inch MBP and upgrading it with 8Gb of RAM and a 256Gb SSD, rather than buying an upgraded MBA -- it there ever is an upgraded MBA.
do you like the 13 better than your 17???

Disavowed
Jun 11, 2010, 04:46 PM
My 15' MBP is a delight, despite the weight. My work situation will change next year, maybe it's all for the best. *cough cough*

I hope it's worth the wait and that they hit it out of the park.

thinkdesign
Jun 11, 2010, 05:21 PM
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gwsat- As the movie title says, "That was then, this is now." History shows that building a biz up to a big success, is way way harder than keeping it going. Did Edsel Ford have as much ability as old man Ford who built it? Of course not. None of the Ford family progeny these days who are still involved, do; that's well documented. And among US car makers, where's Ford now? #1 in quality & financial health; didn't need federal help.

There are tons of businesses started by a smart person, whose average if not dimwitted progeny take over, and manage to keep it rolling along. Apple is plenty huge enough that it SHOULD have a "deep bench". Unless (and again, we don't know; this is all Kremlinology) Jobs has been too egotistical to hire equally smart people, wanting instead for ego/control reasons to always be the brightest bulb by far, in the room. For example: Was Jon Ive the best designer they could get, OR was he the adequate applicant who who least riled up Jobs's control-freak ego? We may never know.

Hearst was such an egomaniac, his castle was "designed" by a young architect who he bossed around like she was a mere drafting service. New Republic's owner has always hired half-qualified too-young editors, so he can push them around easier and not get his own big-but-thin-skinned ego bruised.

Will what appears to be an Apple with total concentration of power in one person, transition well once he's gone ? ? ? You DON'T foster growth in your team of possible successors, by keeping them on a short leash all the time, until the day you retire.

Look at FDR. One dimbulb V.P. pick after another... even though he was our 3rd or 2nd best president ever, we now know he was afraid of picking a V.P. who he'd too-sensitively perceive as "competition".
So, no heir-apparent, when he died in middle of 4th term. (But he did well with enough other picks, and in mgmt, to as we all know, succceed greatly overall.)

Lincoln's best decision, was to hire an older much better lawyer who'd years ago snobbishly offended him, to be Secretary of whay was then called the War Dept. (Because the Pres. needed a sharp tough cookie in that job -- otherwise corruption and waste in that Dept. among the suppliers, would doom the civil war to failure. If Lincoln had been a thin-skinned egotistical control freak, his presidency would've failed, just over that one appointment.)

But back to companies: I don't think this sort of "afraid of competition" thing in mgmt is uncommon in business culture, at all. People don't want to hire someone who might leapfrog right over them. If the CEO is A+ qualified, and hires all A's, and they hire all B+'s, this fear of internal competition may not hurt the co. much. OTOH if the person doing hiring's a 'B' level guy himself who's afraid to hire anything but C's or lower... it can hurt a firm plenty. Which kind is Jobs? The "hero / ******** roller coaster" he's said to put others through doesn't sound good. IMHO L.K.'s book only begins to explain the company's health status. Is an orderly succession going to happen some day? Who knows?

voicegy
Jun 11, 2010, 06:22 PM
I did also note that many criticized me and, in my opinion, said far worse things about me than my usage of the term "ONETWO" where ONE=Fan and TWO=Boi. Some also were positive and supportive. Interestingly, the positive posts have been removed as "off topic" while many of the original negative posts remain. I suppose life isn't "fair."

Well, I never was a witness to all the hubbub so I can't comment on any of it, but nice to see you back as well.

And, yes, I'm still waiting for a revised MBA, it's basically the only thing I care about in the Apple world right now - and I feel it'll happen by the end of the month at the soonest, January 2011 at the latest. (I know that's a wide scope, but I'm willing to hold out hope just into next year...but beyond? I dunno....:confused: )

voicegy
Jun 11, 2010, 06:31 PM
I agree that the white MB is a great value but I hate that white case. In fact, I hate is so much, I wouldn't buy a white MB, despite what a great value it is, because I wouldn't want to be seen with it.:)

I totally agree. Maybe it has to do with being of a more mature age, but it smacks too much of "middle school" and, even though I work in IT in a school district, I don't want to crack open one of those in my meetings. The form factor and the color both turn me off.

But oddly enough, I find myself lusting after the white iPhone 4. Form factor is nice, what it is capable of is great; if I had my way I'd probably go for the white one. So, why the WHITE iPhone and NOT a white MacBook?

Simple. I'm a bit of a snob, and want it known that I have the latest iPhone. Why do you think Apple brought the white color all the way around to the front this time?;)

thinkdesign
Jun 11, 2010, 07:04 PM
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Gee, I guess different things signify sufficient status, in different places.

I've seen in creative circles in NYC, white macbooks DO seem to have sufficient status. For example, a certain rock music photographer here, very successful for decades, has one. And is seen in public with it. (No, not A.L.) And university teachers.

So having one wouldn't make you stick out, in these local mileaus. Interesting...

Scottsdale
Jun 11, 2010, 09:49 PM
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On the Macbook forum, recently there were reports that the plastic still cracks, where the little soft bumpers strike the other half (leaf?). Unbeleivable.

Even Ikea has testing machines to test this sort of thing... they even have a couple of these mechanical testing machines on display in my local Ikea, one endlessly testing a chair seat, and another endlessly testing cabinet hardware, every 5 seconds or so. Ikea can afford to own hundreds of these machines; and so I wonder, how many does Apple own ? Did they ever TEST their 2 most damage-prone laptops this way?

Jobs has obsessed over the glass staircases to the extent that the architect had to let only Apple use the patent, and Jobs parlayed his little client-type whims and CEO status into getting himself listed as "co-inventor". (Nonsense. He came to the table knowing nothing about staircases.) Maybe the time spent there, explains why he has not focussed enough on the Macbook and Macbook Air's weak cases? Of course Apple has PLENTY of other employees who know even better how to do that... but I wonder if perhaps Jobs is egotistically micro-managing everyone in the design studio building so much, that he won't LET them???

That'll be $900. to fix your case because we pretend it was user's abuse in some cases.... but enjoy the glass staircase on your way out!

SJ has his strong points, but Apple like other firms is secretive enough that we may never know how much he's being over-credited for specific things in the media. Perhaps when Jobs retires, Ive will finally emerge from SJ's shadow and really bloom as a designer? And truly become the new Dieter Rams... which ignorant reporters and others sometimes say Jon Ive already is. Bosh. Did any of Rams's designs crack? Not that I've ever heard of.

IMHO Apple may already be at the point where they should give Jobs a part-time position of Senior Philosopher Prince - For Life, and let someone else run the company.

I seriously hope the Board at Apple is running the show. I think Steve Jobs is an incredibly creative and innovative thinker. However, I wouldn't have him leading my company for anything. For many of the same reasons you cited. I have said some rough things about the man, but he constantly proves these "theories" correct. The man is obsessive about shiny and thinness in every product he makes.

I really believe at the end of the day that others are running the operations and Jobs just heads his product projects, like the iPad. Heck, he's a great speaker at keynotes and amazing at innovation. I don't think the MBPs would be an inch thick and I don't believe the MBAs would be what they are without Jobs running the show... but now since we have a reference point for all of these products, we all have these expectations of Apple's products.

We are definitely better off as Apple consumers that Jobs has done such an amazing job. In the short run, I believe others are making the day-to-day business decisions. In the long run, I believe Apple has been led down the proper path to select business leaders and product innovation designers.

We can thank him for being involved with the innovation, but he didn't create everything himself like he wants us to believe. Does he micro-manage, absolutely. But he only has time for one product at a time, and that's a big problem right now. We all see the lack of innovation on OS X and Macs, and it's because Jobs is now focused on iOS and iPads. Something has to give at some point to allow others to truly lead innovation on other products while Jobs is micro-managing a separate product.

Apple stopped OS X 10.7 to keep all people focused on iOS. Apple made WWDC all about the iOS. Apple took nearly a year to upgrade its number one selling product. Apple has several products that are completely outdated. This is a problem. The biggest problem is there are no excuses with $40b in the bank. Apple should spend the money to ensure there are always resources available for every product Apple sells. It's sad to stop focus on OS X when it WAS the reason people bought Macs instead of PCs. With Windows 7 catching up, Apple needs to move forward with OS X and innovate some more.

I think things will get better when Jobs no longer leads the show, even if it's mostly a public lead of the business operations. The people are in place, and I am sure the successor to Jobs is already selected. The good news is most people will make better business decisions than Jobs and understand that innovation across all products is where Apple can better succeed at leading AAPL to higher values. It's like someone said about my presence on MR as to read my posts one has to take the bad with the good. We have to put up with Jobs bad business practices to get the extreme innovation on the one product he can work on at any given time. Jobs isn't going to allow someone else to extremely innovate a separate product as long as he's at the helm.

Right now, it's a better business decision for Apple to dominate iOS products and software. In the long run, Apple can gain more market share and AAPL value by focusing on iOS right now. Apple learned from the personal computer business that it made huge business mistakes and that's why Mac sales continue to increase but are only at 8%. Apple isn't going to make those mistakes again, and that's why its resources are focused on iOS and the products that run it.

I seriously wish someone was working on Mac innovation right now. I just hope that once Jobs gets his iPhone 4 and iOS out, that he puts his energy and focus back on the Macs and OS X for a while...

People sure bash Steve Jobs a lot around here. I'll never understand it. I dare to say no one on these forum knows the man well enough to cut him up, what's the point? Enjoy what he and Apple has to over ... or don't.

People who are focused on Macs are certainly going to be frustrated to see OS X and Macs lag for a year at a time right now. Those that are focused on iOS and the products that run iOS are going to be happy with Jobs. At this site, most of us started here as Mac fans, so of course many will be disappointed and bash Jobs. I am disgusted with his acceptance of allowing Macs to not just trail but to become ridiculously outdated.

Jobs's decision to stop working on OS X and focus the entire WWDC on iOS and iPhone is certainly going to make the frustrated come out full force. Heck us MBA buyers are willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money and time into our pursuit of a new MBA and it's not paying off and we have a ridiculously outdated product. The MBA hasn't seen a real update since October 2008, and that's absurd. I expect you will continue to see Jobs bashers at these forums until people feel that Apple is again innovating on Macs. Hopefully there is something big in the pipeline, and Jobs will again have Mac fans willing to give him some more Mac praise.

Metlin
Jun 12, 2010, 11:43 AM
Um just get a 13" MBP guys it's not much heavier far superior

Something that's 50% more of the weight is not much heavier?

Who's your dealer? Cause I'd love to have some of what you're smoking.

stanislas
Jun 12, 2010, 03:52 PM
Something that's 50% more of the weight is not much heavier?

Who's your dealer? Cause I'd love to have some of what you're smoking.

Not to defend him or anything, since I also think the MB 13 is much heavier than the Air, but...

Your argument sucks. The difference between 1 and 1,5 grams isn't noticeable to a normal human being. Therefore, something that's 50% more of the weight isn't necessarily much heavier. It depends on 50% of what.

Spacekatgal
Jun 12, 2010, 03:59 PM
Not to defend him or anything, since I also think the MB 13 is much heavier than the Air, but...

Your argument sucks. The difference between 1 and 1,5 grams isn't noticeable to a normal human being. Therefore, something that's 50% more of the weight isn't necessarily much heavier. It depends on 50% of what.

I don't know. The weight difference between the 17 inch and the 15 inch is only 1 pound. But, having moved from a 17 to a 15 this generation, I can tell you that pound makes a HUGE difference to me. It's the difference in not getting knots in my shoulders carrying it around.

I think it's doable, but still significant.

bluescity
Jun 12, 2010, 05:12 PM
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Gee, I guess different things signify sufficient status, in different places.

I've seen in creative circles in NYC, white macbooks DO seem to have sufficient status. For example, a certain rock music photographer here, very successful for decades, has one. And is seen in public with it. (No, not A.L.) And university teachers.

So having one wouldn't make you stick out, in these local mileaus. Interesting...

That is because they don't make squat!

Metlin
Jun 12, 2010, 05:42 PM
Not to defend him or anything, since I also think the MB 13 is much heavier than the Air, but...

Your argument sucks. The difference between 1 and 1,5 grams isn't noticeable to a normal human being. Therefore, something that's 50% more of the weight isn't necessarily much heavier. It depends on 50% of what.

That's a poor analogy. You may not notice the difference between 1 and 1.5 grams, but I bet you that you'd notice the difference 3 lb and 4.5 lb.

Some of us carry enough around already -- a 1.5 lb increase (which is about 700 grams) is not small, especially when you're lugging it around on your shoulder for hours.

(I just measured my laptop bag -- it's right now at 7.5 lb; with an MBP, it would be 9 lb).

thinkdesign
Jun 12, 2010, 05:59 PM
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"That is because they don't make squat." Perhaps I misunderstood, but, what are income levels in the situation in which you said a white plastic Macbook would embarass you?

I gave 2 vague occupational field examples, university teaching and the creative industries centered in NYC, and you cherry-picked one. Each one of those 2 areas involves a very wide range of incomes and financial statusses. The photographer I mentioned has a fabulous Chelsea loft overlooking the new High Line park (built on old elevated RR tracks. Google it.) I've seen fashion designers, graphic artists, etc. with white Macbooks. If it fits your needs, why spend more?

True, university teacherss are getting financially beat up... more in nonunionised settings, than in unionised ones. Though younger teachers not allowed onto tenure track are suffering almost everywhere... they pinch pennies on 1000 instructors, to pay the small tenurati very well. But you know what? In terms of status questions and Macbooks -- that also tilts the teaching game towards young trustafarians who don't depend on teaching paychecks to live; so SOME of them with MB's still live a high-financial-status life, even an almost Sex In The City lifestyle, and go home to the fab loft, and sit down in their $5K dwr.com armchair. Next to a lamp they found for free at curbside.

I buy $70. NewBalance sneakers. (I'm largely stuck w/ NB because I have wide feet.) Should I buy their $100-140. plain light grey ones instead, so that I'll look more affluent? I don't perceive anything in my social environment - pushing me to do that.

There are people in $5 Mil. apts. on 5th Ave., with their little 8 y/o Toyota Corollas parked outside. Showing that -- what some need for status in some places... others don't need for status in other places.

gwsat
Jun 12, 2010, 06:07 PM
Right now, it's a better business decision for Apple to dominate iOS products and software. In the long run, Apple can gain more market share and AAPL value by focusing on iOS right now. Apple learned from the personal computer business that it made huge business mistakes and that's why Mac sales continue to increase but are only at 8%. Apple isn't going to make those mistakes again, and that's why its resources are focused on iOS and the products that run it.

I seriously wish someone was working on Mac innovation right now. I just hope that once Jobs gets his iPhone 4 and iOS out, that he puts his energy and focus back on the Macs and OS X for a while...

I agree that Apple's current obsession with iOS makes good business sense, despite being frustrating to those of us who want modern Mac computers instead of the current less that stellar lineup.

Your argument sucks. The difference between 1 and 1,5 grams isn't noticeable to a normal human being. Therefore, something that's 50% more of the weight isn't necessarily much heavier. It depends on 50% of what.
You would be right if the 13 inch MBP's weighed only 1.5 grams more than the MBA. Unfortunately, though, the MBP weighs 1.5 pounds more. 1.5 grams is only .0033 pounds. Although I admire the 13 inch MBP, its weight is, indeed, substantially greater than that of the MBA.

flynz4
Jun 12, 2010, 07:26 PM
That's a poor analogy. You may not notice the difference between 1 and 1.5 grams, but I bet you that you'd notice the difference 3 lb and 4.5 lb.

Some of us carry enough around already -- a 1.5 lb increase (which is about 700 grams) is not small, especially when you're lugging it around on your shoulder for hours.

(I just measured my laptop bag -- it's right now at 7.5 lb; with an MBP, it would be 9 lb).

In addition to the heavier weight of the MBP, the power brick is heavier and bulkier as well. It all adds up.

Having said that... I do not even consider the "carry weight" to be the real differentiator between the MBA and MBP for my usage. It is the "operational weight" that matters. For someone who always uses it on the desk... the operational weight may not matter much (but the carry weight still would).

My personal usage is one where "operational weight" does indeed matter. I often compute while laying in bed, sitting on the couch, sitting in an easy chair. When doing this, I perform very frequent tasks of "moving" it from my lap, to my right, across to my left, to the arm of the easy chair, back to my lap, etc. I do this by grabbing it from the front right corner with one hand. That is the manner in which I compute. For those who use computers in such a casual style... the 1.5 lb difference is enormous! Now that I am accustomed to my MBA, holding a traditional laptop (like my MBP) makes me feel like I've been thrown back into the 90s.

/Jim

pharmx
Jun 12, 2010, 07:57 PM
I'm willing to bet that most of the people who say the 1.5 pound difference is negligible barely travel, if at all. The type of travel (carrying it to/from class versus on an airline), the baseline weight (someone who regularly carries a 15 pound backpack versus someone who is used to traveling with a 5 pound briefcase), usage location (mostly stationary for extended periods of time versus being taken out and put away frequently in between travel spots), etc. all play a part in whether the weight difference between the 13" MBP and the MBA is significant. And this is not even taking into account the other advantages the Air has when it comes to design aspects such as thinness, tapering, reduces glossiness of screen, etc.

Scottsdale
Jun 12, 2010, 08:04 PM
In addition to the heavier weight of the MBP, the power brick is heavier and bulkier as well. It all adds up.

Having said that... I do not even consider the "carry weight" to be the real differentiator between the MBA and MBP for my usage. It is the "operational weight" that matters. For someone who always uses it on the desk... the operational weight may not matter much (but the carry weight still would).

My personal usage is one where "operational weight" does indeed matter. I often compute while laying in bed, sitting on the couch, sitting in an easy chair. When doing this, I perform very frequent tasks of "moving" it from my lap, to my right, across to my left, to the arm of the easy chair, back to my lap, etc. I do this by grabbing it from the front right corner with one hand. That is the manner in which I compute. For those who use computers in such a casual style... the 1.5 lb difference is enormous! Now that I am accustomed to my MBA, holding a traditional laptop (like my MBP) makes me feel like I've been thrown back into the 90s.

/Jim

I agree with you. The weight difference in a laptop bag isn't as big of a difference, but the weight difference during use is substantial. The MBA's weight and feel (including thinness) is so radically different to the end user. I went from 15" MBP and tried the original MBA, but it wasn't capable of my needs so I never valued the lightweight original MBA. Then I bought the v 2,1 MBA, and the differences were so big and the best part was it was completely capable of doing everything I wanted.

Then my v 2,1 rev B MBA was stolen, and I had to go to the 13" aluminum MB until the rev "c" update. It was the worst computing experience ever in going to the 1.5 lb. heavier MB. As much as I loved the glass trackpad, it was so heavy during actual use. It was a relief when the rev "C" was announced with a $700 price drop. It made waiting for two months worth it at the time.

I am very portable, as I go on the patio in the evening, I go to client offices, I take the MBA to the couch, desk, bedroom, and etc. I have three chargers waiting for me around the house... one in bedroom, one by couch, and one at the desk with 24" LED ACD. It's moving around the house that the weight difference is big, but it's actually while holding it on my lap or propped up on my legs while in bed that it really makes a difference. At client offices, I often pass it around to look at a spreadsheet or a slide. It is everyone's favorite computer ever once they hold it too!

The user absolutely has to experience these differences in the real world for a week to understand the true nature of the 1.5 lb. savings in the MBA. The MBA is by far my favorite computer ever. While it's true I thought about cheating on her with a new Vaio Z, the curves, weight, display, and keyboard on this thing are perfection. If Apple just updated it with the 320m, more RAM, and a glass trackpad, I could be even happier with the MBA. I definitely say the 1.5 lb. difference is critical for the entire experience, but one would have to use it to respect it as many of us MBA owners do.

bluescity
Jun 12, 2010, 09:10 PM
The difference between 1 and 1,5 grams isn't noticeable to a normal human being. Therefore, something that's 50% more of the weight isn't necessarily much heavier. It depends on 50% of what.

Though I'd have avoided the "your argument sucks" bit, don't let the nay-sayers (who don't know what "heavy" means) get you down. It was a good point, if incomplete. You meant to conclude: "It depends on 50% of what and who's making the judgment."

pharmx
Jun 12, 2010, 09:19 PM
Though I'd have avoided the "your argument sucks" bit, don't let the nay-sayers (who don't know what "heavy" means) get you down. It was a good point, if incomplete. You meant to conclude: "It depends on 50% of what and who's making the judgment."

Unless I misunderstood stanislas, I think all he was doing was pointing out that the "50%" is relative. I believe he is in agreement with the majority of people who posted in that the increased weight of the 13" MBP is significant, and definitely noticeable. The "50%" just needed to be clarified with a frame of reference to baseline weight.

thinkdesign
Jun 12, 2010, 09:21 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11) Sprint PPC6850SP)

Yes, the weight difference is functionally significant. Finding this out means trying it physically, not diddling with weight stats!

When I pick up an Air in the store, I can easily put it back down again, one handed. (Without hurting it, or the table.)

But pick up any Macbook Pro and even with two hands, putting it back down, you arrive at the moment when your two index fingertips are sandwiched between the computer and the table. Since the computer's edges are square, all you can do it extract a fingertip suddenly, and then "Wham!" that side of the notebook slams down on the table. Then you extract the other fingertip, and again, "Wham!", so hard, I wonder if I've broken anything inside the product.

Of course the only workaround, is slide both gripping hands towards the front, then lower the Macbook Pro down so the rear half or 2/3 is flat on the table, -- and the frontmost 1/3 is cantelevering over the table's edge, so you've firmly gripped it and lowered it slowly until any danger of slamming was over. Then the final step -- you shove it back, so all of it's on the table. Which you may have just scratched, by so doing. Not to mention perhaps scuffing the laptop too. This is "design"?

The Air's left/right edge shapes let your fingertips have a place to fit, when you lower its smaller weight to the table.

IMHO, ease of quietly placing a laptop on a table is not, all by itself, the difference between saying the Air has good (physical) design and the MB Pros have bad design. But I don't see any design plusses in the Pros that balance out the score.

And the 17" MB Pro is so obese, I guess that explains why I've never seen a single one in the wild. I guess people put it on a desk, and leave it there?

halledise
Jun 13, 2010, 01:19 AM
the old chestnut - what's heavier, a pound of feathers or a one pound brick?

theoretically they're the same because of weight but drop em on your head and the brick hurts more.

the Air is lighter than the MBPro by a lot.
mind you, if you drop them they're both buggered.

as for carrying them around and the tactile feel of each - give me the Air any day.

I bought mine when the RevC first came out - almost a year to the day and at the original high price just before the GFC hit and the Aus$ fell thru the floor compared to the greenback.
(how did Apple pick that was coming anyway???)

loved it then, love it now and it still does everything I want it to do.
worth every $ I paid for it.

if you're after the additional 'grunt' of a MBPro then by all means buy the Pro but for everything else - there's the Air.

happy to wait until the conditions are right and the components available to make a refresh something special, yet again.
if they can do it with the iPhone you can bet your boots they can do it with the Air - and the Mac Pro too for that matter

ReallyBigFeet
Jun 13, 2010, 09:34 AM
For whatever reason, Steve appears to have a serious case of ADD when it comes to the MBA. It was heralded as revolutionary, given incredible media coverage and really introduced as the next wave. For the OSX devices in general, it appears to me that the sun is setting. They will have a place in the lineup for years to come, I'm sure, but not center stage. That position now belongs to the iPhone and, perhaps to a lesser extent, the iPad as well. They are now a consumer devices company first and foremost and bigger ticket items such as the Macbook Pro/Macbook Air just aren't going to get a lot of love.

I think this is a result of inventing and owning the iPod/iPhone market. With those devices, there are few real competitors thanks to the usability boost you get from the iTunes network. So although there are many MP3 players and other mobile phones with better feature sets, few have the power of iTunes, the music/video library and in particular the App store behind them. So Steve developed this perspective of "just enough hardware, we'll make up the gap to the competitors in software" when it comes to feature sets and saw the company's valuation soar. People bought the iPod and iPhone even if it didn't have X feature because the entire package had some wow to it. If you've studied Mr. Jobs from the 80's, as I have, you'll also see that while he is a fierce competitor, he rarely pays much attention to the feature/functionality of the competitors' products. Look at Flash as an example. He says he hates it, doesn't want it on our devices, and yet for all that hyperbole hasn't yet offered us a great alternative to it...just the promise of one in HTML5, with an assumption that eventually others will make up that gap in software.

Macbook Air's have that wow factor....they are ultraportable and a beauty to behold. But the feature set (CPU/graphics/memory) isn't important to delivering that "wow factor" and therefore the upgrade cycle is slow and underwhelming to the expert users. To everyone else, it still has a "wow" factor even if it is anemic by today's computing standards.

Apple loves the Wow factor. Their entire marketing model is built on it. The Air still has it until you start to push it beyond mundane computing tasks. But to get there, you've already paid for it and so they really don't care at that point.

I hope you Air consumers get your upgrade. But I won't be a bit surprised if its still pretty underwhelming. Or killed off entirely by something else to distract the ADD in the community.

gwsat
Jun 13, 2010, 10:16 AM
I agree with you. The weight difference in a laptop bag isn't as big of a difference, but the weight difference during use is substantial. The MBA's weight and feel (including thinness) is so radically different to the end user. I went from 15" MBP and tried the original MBA, but it wasn't capable of my needs so I never valued the lightweight original MBA. Then I bought the v 2,1 MBA, and the differences were so big and the best part was it was completely capable of doing everything I wanted.

Then my v 2,1 rev B MBA was stolen, and I had to go to the 13" aluminum MB until the rev "c" update. It was the worst computing experience ever in going to the 1.5 lb. heavier MB. As much as I loved the glass trackpad, it was so heavy during actual use. It was a relief when the rev "C" was announced with a $700 price drop. It made waiting for two months worth it at the time.

I am very portable, as I go on the patio in the evening, I go to client offices, I take the MBA to the couch, desk, bedroom, and etc. I have three chargers waiting for me around the house... one in bedroom, one by couch, and one at the desk with 24" LED ACD. It's moving around the house that the weight difference is big, but it's actually while holding it on my lap or propped up on my legs while in bed that it really makes a difference. At client offices, I often pass it around to look at a spreadsheet or a slide. It is everyone's favorite computer ever once they hold it too!

The user absolutely has to experience these differences in the real world for a week to understand the true nature of the 1.5 lb. savings in the MBA. The MBA is by far my favorite computer ever. While it's true I thought about cheating on her with a new Vaio Z, the curves, weight, display, and keyboard on this thing are perfection. If Apple just updated it with the 320m, more RAM, and a glass trackpad, I could be even happier with the MBA. I definitely say the 1.5 lb. difference is critical for the entire experience, but one would have to use it to respect it as many of us MBA owners do.
You use your computer in your house like I do in mine. I carry my computer around from room to room. That's why I have enjoyed my iPad, despite its limitations. It is also the reason why I continue to wait for an updated MBA instead of buying a 13 inch MBP, which is cheaper and both more powerful and feature rich than the MBA. The problem with that, though, is that the MBP is enough heavier and thicker than the MBA that it requires two hands in situations where, with the MBA, you would only have to use one.

Spacekatgal
Jun 13, 2010, 10:39 AM
I hope you Air consumers get your upgrade. But I won't be a bit surprised if its still pretty underwhelming. Or killed off entirely by something else to distract the ADD in the community.

Well, let's remember to put the air in proper historical perspective. The Air was the precursor to the unibody laptop. All of the advancements have made their way through the rest of the line. As Scotsdale pointed out, the only difference between the Air and the 13 inch is the battery, and the optical drive. It was revolutionary at the time, but things have moved on.

The Air debuted at a point in time where there was no iPad. I don't know how many Air's have sold, but I'd be surprised if it sold 2 million in all the years it was out. That took the iPad a few months.

I don't know why so many people in this forum are so antipathetic to iOS. For me, it doesn't upset me to see a simpler, more fun operating system to come into it's prime. It doesn't detract from what I do for real work on my Mac one bit.

I get the feeling that many people in this forum are around 40 or older. I think this discrepancy is somewhat generational. To me, it makes perfect sense to have a streamlined OS in your phone and a real OS on your computer.

flynz4
Jun 13, 2010, 11:27 AM
Well, let's remember to put the air in proper historical perspective. The Air was the precursor to the unibody laptop. All of the advancements have made their way through the rest of the line. As Scotsdale pointed out, the only difference between the Air and the 13 inch is the battery, and the optical drive. It was revolutionary at the time, but things have moved on.

The Air debuted at a point in time where there was no iPad. I don't know how many Air's have sold, but I'd be surprised if it sold 2 million in all the years it was out. That took the iPad a few months.

I don't know why so many people in this forum are so antipathetic to iOS. For me, it doesn't upset me to see a simpler, more fun operating system to come into it's prime. It doesn't detract from what I do for real work on my Mac one bit.

I get the feeling that many people in this forum are around 40 or older. I think this discrepancy is somewhat generational. To me, it makes perfect sense to have a streamlined OS in your phone and a real OS on your computer.

I love my iPad, and like you, it does not detract from my Macs either. In a couple of weeks, I will be upgrading our iPhones to iPhone 4. For both of the iOS devices, I particularly love the "instantaneous" nature of the device. It is something that we have never achieved in the computer industry. The value is significant.

My biggest single disappointment with the iOS devices is their incompatibility with flash use on the web. This surprised me. I was previously unaware of level of integration of flash in the web today. I honestly do not care how this incompatibility gets solved... either Apple supports flash... or Apple takes on the responsibility to enable/drive/fund/etc the obliteration of flash on the web. It is a problem that Apple created by undertaking a holy war against flash. As a user, I expect them to solve it. Doing so sounds hard, and expensive. In any case, this would not cause the iPad to be a replacement device for me.

I love my compliment of:

27" i7 iMac
MBA Rev C w/SSD
iPad 3G
iPhone (soon to be upgraded to iPhone 4)

I especially love the way they seamlessly interoperate.

/Jim

skate71290
Jun 13, 2010, 11:50 AM
I will wait. In the meantime, I will be using my 4 year old Macbook :)

Which probably performs better than any MacBook Air :mad:

skate71290
Jun 13, 2010, 11:56 AM
I suspect the wait will equal < 6 weeks or > 4 months. If there are Mac mini and 21.5" iMac updates to the 320m, and still no MBA, then it's October 2010 or January 2011 before the MBA gets its update.

I still believe it's more likely that the MBA gets its update in the next six weeks. I believe it will have the 320m just as will the Mac mini and 21.5" iMacs. It is cheaper to make all MacFive products with the same component makeup then to keep making batches of old and new. However, there's the possibility that the MBA's sales are so poor that Apple made say 50,000 logicboards that could be installed in new MBAs as needed over the next four to six months. It all comes down to costs and quantities needed to fulfill demand.

However, if we think about Apple's motive to sell Macs, surely it knows what we know, an update to just 4 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD could maybe quadruple the MBA's best sales quarter ever. The average MBA user isn't concerned about faster CPUs nor even a faster GPU, they're concerned with RAM and drive space increases.

I will wait, until Apple releases a new MBA or my current MBA no longer fulfills my needs. Right now it's fulfilling my needs, but it is failing to fulfill my wants. I want more RAM and a glass trackpad more than anything else...

I think 4GB RAM should be standard in all Macs by now, but i would rather see a Processor improvement over a HDD improvement, as the Air is really for my Uni studies only and not as a primary machine (although if the next update is significant it will be) plus i use a 1TB Time Capsule for File Storage and backup so space really isn't an issue, but SSD standard on both models would be nice, plus, does anyone know of an option to add SSD to my 1.6GHZ MBA?

gwsat
Jun 13, 2010, 12:34 PM
I don't know why so many people in this forum are so antipathetic to iOS. For me, it doesn't upset me to see a simpler, more fun operating system to come into it's prime. It doesn't detract from what I do for real work on my Mac one bit.

I get the feeling that many people in this forum are around 40 or older. I think this discrepancy is somewhat generational. To me, it makes perfect sense to have a streamlined OS in your phone and a real OS on your computer.
I am certainly over 40 so let me explain where I come down on the iOS issue. By smartphone standards it is impressive. The problem with iOS arises with its use in the iPad. The iPad comes tantalizingly close to being a real computer but is not, for a litany of reasons already discussed at length elsewhere. Compared to real computers running real computer OSes, such as OS X and Windows, iOS is primitive and maddeningly limited.

Don't get me wrong, I love my iPad. In situations where a high degree of portability is vital, or when you just want to grab a fast answer to something stored on it or from the Web it is wonderful. Nevertheless, even now, I find that my MBP is still my default machine because, once it is open and ready to go, it is far easier and faster to use than the iPad.

Spacekatgal
Jun 13, 2010, 12:52 PM
I am certainly over 40 so let me explain where I come down on the iOS issue. By smartphone standards it is impressive. The problem with iOS arises with its use in the iPad. The iPad comes tantalizingly close to being a real computer but is not, for a litany of reasons already discussed at length elsewhere. Compared to real computers running real computer OSes, such as OS X and Windows, iOS is primitive and maddeningly limited.

Don't get me wrong, I love my iPad. In situations where a high degree of portability is vital, or when you just want to grab a fast answer to something stored on it or from the Web it is wonderful. Nevertheless, even now, I find that my MBP is still my default machine because, once it is open and ready to go, it is far easier and faster to use than the iPad.

It's hard to remember now, but what was OSX like when it first launched? It was a promising mess, right? iOS is still in its infancy. I have a strong belief that in time it will overcome the limitations that have been so commonly discussed.

I think the main mistake people have in discussing the iPad is wondering if it's a laptop replacement. These are very bifurcated devices. SJ talked as D8 about the post-PC world and the fear it struck in people. Respectfully, I think there are some people in this forum like that. I will always need a professional, high-power computer - but most people do not. I welcome iOS and the advent of the post-PC age.

Metlin
Jun 13, 2010, 01:55 PM
It's hard to remember now, but what was OSX like when it first launched? It was a promising mess, right? iOS is still in its infancy. I have a strong belief that in time it will overcome the limitations that have been so commonly discussed.

I think the main mistake people have in discussing the iPad is wondering if it's a laptop replacement. These are very bifurcated devices. SJ talked as D8 about the post-PC world and the fear it struck in people. Respectfully, I think there are some people in this forum like that. I will always need a professional, high-power computer - but most people do not. I welcome iOS and the advent of the post-PC age.

Indeed - well said.

As I've grown older, I've changed from someone who took great pains (and pleasure) in installing the latest flavor of Linux to someone who rarely uses his computer for anything more than Powerpoint or Excel.

At this stage, I just want my computer to work without much hassle because my time is valuable and usability and simplicity are key. As I've become, shall we say, increasingly post-technical, I've come to admire Apple as a platform more than ever before.

And I think there is a good chunk of the populace that can relate to that.

Scottsdale
Jun 13, 2010, 02:30 PM
I love my iPad, and like you, it does not detract from my Macs either. In a couple of weeks, I will be upgrading our iPhones to iPhone 4. For both of the iOS devices, I particularly love the "instantaneous" nature of the device. It is something that we have never achieved in the computer industry. The value is significant.

My biggest single disappointment with the iOS devices is their incompatibility with flash use on the web. This surprised me. I was previously unaware of level of integration of flash in the web today. I honestly do not care how this incompatibility gets solved... either Apple supports flash... or Apple takes on the responsibility to enable/drive/fund/etc the obliteration of flash on the web. It is a problem that Apple created by undertaking a holy war against flash. As a user, I expect them to solve it. Doing so sounds hard, and expensive. In any case, this would not cause the iPad to be a replacement device for me.

I love my compliment of:

27" i7 iMac
MBA Rev C w/SSD
iPad 3G
iPhone (soon to be upgraded to iPhone 4)

I especially love the way they seamlessly interoperate.

/Jim

My number one problem with iOS on the iPad is the lack of Flash. People don't realize just what Flash does until they work on an Apple product that doesn't have it. The web is absolutely loaded with Flash-based websites. Some want to say Flash is only advertisements and garbage, but it's just not true. I absolutely am disgusted with my iPad anytime I try to surf the web on it. For that reason alone, I pretty much have given up on the iPad. I will use it on a flight here or there to watch a movie.

The problem with the iPad not having Flash, is the whole point of the iPad is that it's supposed to be an entertainment device. However, there's little entertainment available on the web without Flash. The biggest error in Apple's ways is to not consider the terrible loss of its customers who are buying a $499 to $829 device that doesn't have the full power of the Internet that it describes in the commercials. I feel like most buying the iPad have no idea just how bad the Internet experience is without Flash. I let various family members play with my iPad, and most of them found the Internet experience to be disgusting. Most of them said they would never buy an iPad because it cannot even surf the web. These are family members that can easily afford a $499 entertainment device, but they're turned off because it doesn't do what Apple says it does.

What is really troubling for me is the amount of control Apple wants over everything on the iPad. These developers are having to play an incredibly disgusting game with Apple pulling or denying their app's acceptance into the app store. The problem is Apple has too much control, and what's okay today may not be tomorrow. Whatever Apple does it needs to stick with one set of rules and not keep changing the rules. Jobs brags about 200,000 apps, but the quality apps are few and far between. And the biggest problem is once I have slapped down the $500 to buy my iPad, I cannot even decide myself if I want to install Adobe's Flash on it. I don't care if I lose 90% of my battery power, if I want to install Flash it should be MY DECISION. Apple often takes stances on policies that so negatively affect its customers, and it doesn't seem to rationalize the effects felt by the customers after they have given Apple their money.

I do love the iOS on my iPhone. I too will be buying the iPhone 4 the day it's released. I can live without Flash on the iPhone because it fits in my pocket and serves primarily as a communication tool rather than an entertainment tool. So it depends on the device running iOS more than the lack of capabilities of iOS itself. I would say the nature of the iOS really comes down to the hardware and portability of the hardware that is running the software. It's not as simple as iOS vs. OS X. It comes down to usability and function given the fact that when iOS can fit in my pocket it's great, but when it cannot fit in my pocket it fails so miserably to OS X that it basically makes iOS worthless when the device running iOS cannot fit in my pocket.

I think 4GB RAM should be standard in all Macs by now, but i would rather see a Processor improvement over a HDD improvement, as the Air is really for my Uni studies only and not as a primary machine (although if the next update is significant it will be) plus i use a 1TB Time Capsule for File Storage and backup so space really isn't an issue, but SSD standard on both models would be nice, plus, does anyone know of an option to add SSD to my 1.6GHZ MBA?

I personally don't get the need for a processor improvement. I feel the 2.13 GHz CPU is plenty capable. However, what would you expect Apple go with for the next MBA? Do you believe they will go with another C2D and Nvidia 320m or do you think it will be an Arrandale CPU with Intel's GMA as the sole graphics solution? Are you willing to give up your graphics performance to get a faster CPU?

The problem with adding an SSD to both models is the cost. It costs a ton of money for SSDs versus HDDs right now. I just feel the user must buy an SSD model. The MBA experience goes from brilliant with an SSD to poor with an HDD for the end user. I feel nobody should buy an HDD model, but I don't expect Apple to give people an SSD for free. Quite honestly, the price including an SSD in the MBA was amazing when introduced in June 2009. People are already getting the SSD for free, because before the pricing update the low-end was $1799.

I believe Apple should refocus its efforts with the MBA and raise the prices back up. That way it could allow an SSD in the low-end MBA. I want a higher quality experience, and since the iPad is available for those who want less computer functions and more portable entertainment capabilities, Apple can definitely refocus the MBA again as a luxury item. Why not make a 2.13 GHz C2D, with Nvidia 320m, 4 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD for $1799 low end. Then make a high-end MBA for $2499 with overclocked SL9x00 C2D at maybe 2.4 GHz with the same 320m, use a 192/256 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, along with an IPS display. In addition, allow the low-end MBA buyers the BTO options to add the features desired from the high-end MBA. In addition, add some more high-end BTO options available for either MBA model. They could offer 3G/4G service from Verizon for $99.

What I see Apple doing at some point is adding an LCD trackpad that functions like iOS running within a shell in OS X. This would allow touch access of the icons on the display, but the user would touch them on the trackpad instead of putting their greasy mitts on the display. I also see Apple using a hybrid drive method soldering maybe 32GB NAND Flash to the logicboard which will run the OS and apps. Then the user can select either HDD or SSD, but their Mac would be as fast as SSD for the OS and applications where it is primarily needed. Apple could also use some of their cool patents allowing motion sensing interactivity with the OS. Or they could finally implement a liquid cooling solution to run a faster CPU in the MBA. They could even offer colors or even just black aluminum in Mac models. I see the MBA as the idea launching platform for Mac notebooks. Apple can test future possible features on the MBA's as a luxury feature allowing Apple to refine the experience before going mainstream into MBs and MBPs.

At the end of the day, I am willing to pay ridiculously for the products I buy from Apple. However, I want Apple to give me the options to buy new/current technology even at ridiculously high prices in an MBA that isn't from October 2008. I don't care how insane the prices are, we should have the opportunity to spend ridiculous amounts of money on current technology ensuring Apple gets paid handsomely for the sales of the MBAs. I also want my iPad to run the software I tell it to run not what Apple permits me to run on it. As consumers, we need to demand more from Apple. I want Apple to WANT to take my money. It is bad that Apple refuses to update several products as it's forgetting about its long-term relationships with Mac users.

gwsat
Jun 13, 2010, 02:40 PM
It's hard to remember now, but what was OSX like when it first launched? It was a promising mess, right? iOS is still in its infancy. I have a strong belief that in time it will overcome the limitations that have been so commonly discussed.

I think the main mistake people have in discussing the iPad is wondering if it's a laptop replacement. These are very bifurcated devices. SJ talked as D8 about the post-PC world and the fear it struck in people. Respectfully, I think there are some people in this forum like that. I will always need a professional, high-power computer - but most people do not. I welcome iOS and the advent of the post-PC age.
I first used version 10.2 of OS X, Jagar, when I got a Powerbook G4 in the spring of 2003. By that time is was the OS X most of us have come to know and love. There have been improvements over time, of course, but those have, with a few exceptions, been incremental.

gwsat
Jun 13, 2010, 02:58 PM
do you like the 13 better than your 17???
That's a good question. I like the 13 inch MBP's form factor and (relatively) light weight far better than those of my 17 inch. Further, the resolution of its display, while inferior to that of my 17 inch MBP, is outstanding in most applications. The most impressive thing about the 13 inch MBP is that when I have used it for Web surfing and email, it has turned out to be the functional equivalent of my 17 inch MBP. When Applecare ends on my 17 inch next spring, I will likely replace it with a 13 inch model unless the version of the MBA current then is a whole lot more capable than the MBA that is current now. Even if I upgraded it with 8Gb of RAM and a 256Gb SSD, the 13 inch MBP would still be cheaper than a 17 inch MBP with only 4Gb of RAM and a conventional hard drive. There is a lot to be said for cost effectiveness.

entatlrg
Jun 13, 2010, 03:13 PM
That's a good question. I like the 13 inch MBP's form factor and (relatively) light weight far better than those of my 17 inch. Further, the resolution of its display, while inferior to that of my 17 inch MBP, is outstanding in most applications. The most impressive thing about the 13 inch MBP is that when I have used it for Web surfing and email, it has turned out to be the functional equivalent of my 17 inch MBP. When Applecare ends on my 17 inch next fspringall, I will likely replace it with a 13 inch model unless the version of the MBA current then is a whole lot more capable than the MBA that is current now. Even if I upgraded it with 8Gb of RAM and a 256Gb SSD, the 13 inch MBP would still be cheaper than a 17 inch MBP with only 4Gb of RAM and a conventional hard drive. There is a lot to be said for cost effectiveness.

You made good points about the 13" MBP.

It's kind of the 'sleeper' notebook ... some laugh at it's spec's, complain that it's thicker and heavier that the MacBook Air ... While all that may be true once you get the 13" MBP on your lap and get using it you realize it's a GREAT notebook.

The screen is low resolution yes, but it's INCREDIBLY crisp, clear and a true pleasure to view for long hours, I can't find a 13" notebook anywhere with a better screen regardless of the resolution.

Then you'll notice it's not so bad on your lap, very small footprint on a table or desk, in a bag it really does not feel that much heavier than my MBA, add the 10 hour battery, super keyboard, enough ports ... heck it's an excellent notebook, throw in a 24" ACD and you have a capable desktop replacement.

The 13" MBP has really won me over, the new Air will have to have some killer spec's to draw me away from it ... and regardless I doubt we'll see it with the spec's and ports of the 13" MBP.

Perhaps during this lull of updates to the MacBook Air others like me are seeing the 13" work well as an ultraportable ... hence the increasing possibility that Apple won't do anything with the Air. The next major update (early 2011?), could see the 13" MBP get thinner lighter and the MBA disappear ... if no update to the Air by the end of June then I'd bet this is the route Apple will take.

Spacekatgal
Jun 13, 2010, 03:27 PM
You made good points about the 13" MBP.

It's kind of the 'sleeper' notebook ... some laugh at it's spec's, complain that it's thicker and heavier that the MacBook Air ... While all that may be true once you get the 13" MBP on your lap and get using it you realize it's a GREAT notebook.

The screen is low resolution yes, but it's INCREDIBLY crisp, clear and a true pleasure to view for long hours, I can't find a 13" notebook anywhere with a better screen regardless of the resolution.

Then you'll notice it's not so bad on your lap, very small footprint on a table or desk, in a bag it really does not feel that much heavier than my MBA, add the 10 hour battery, super keyboard, enough ports ... heck it's an excellent notebook, throw in a 24" ACD and you have a capable desktop replacement.

The 13" MBP has really won me over, the new Air will have to have some killer spec's to draw me away from it ... and regardless I doubt we'll see it with the spec's and ports of the 13" MBP.

Perhaps during this lull of updates to the MacBook Air others like me are seeing the 13" work well as an ultraportable ... hence the increasing possibility that Apple won't do anything with the Air. The next major update (early 2011?), could see the 13" MBP get thinner lighter and the MBA disappear ... if no update to the Air by the end of June then I'd bet this is the route Apple will take.

I agree with every word of this, except for one small fact. Core 2 Duo is essentially dead. For me, personally i would not spend a dime in any new computer that didn't at least come with an i5. I understand Jobs logic in wanting a battery life, and I understand the space issues involved. But for me, personally, I wish it was a BTO option.

Bri

gwsat
Jun 13, 2010, 03:42 PM
Perhaps during this lull of updates to the MacBook Air others like me are seeing the 13" work well as an ultraportable ... hence the increasing possibility that Apple won't do anything with the Air. The next major update (early 2011?), could see the 13" MBP get thinner lighter and the MBA disappear ... if no update to the Air by the end of June then I'd bet this is the route Apple will take.
Yesterday, I learned something, which seemed to me to be highly relevant to the issue of whether the MBA might be discontinued. My son in law bought a black MB a couple of years ago. Yesterday, he told me that he got it only because Apple had not introduced a 13 inch MBP at the time. A few minutes ago I did a little research and saw that the first 13 inch MBP was the unibody model, which was not introduced until mid 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro). Thus, at the time of the MBA's introduction in early 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Air), it was the only 13 inch laptop in Apple's high end lineup and remained so for nearly a year and a half. It was last updated contemporaneously with the introduction of the 13 inch MBP but has not been updated since. These fun facts have gone a long way toward convincing me that there is a very real chance Apple will drop the MBA from its lineup.

pharmx
Jun 13, 2010, 06:44 PM
I love my iPad, and like you, it does not detract from my Macs either. In a couple of weeks, I will be upgrading our iPhones to iPhone 4. For both of the iOS devices, I particularly love the "instantaneous" nature of the device. It is something that we have never achieved in the computer industry. The value is significant.

My biggest single disappointment with the iOS devices is their incompatibility with flash use on the web. This surprised me. I was previously unaware of level of integration of flash in the web today. I honestly do not care how this incompatibility gets solved... either Apple supports flash... or Apple takes on the responsibility to enable/drive/fund/etc the obliteration of flash on the web. It is a problem that Apple created by undertaking a holy war against flash. As a user, I expect them to solve it. Doing so sounds hard, and expensive. In any case, this would not cause the iPad to be a replacement device for me.

I love my compliment of:

27" i7 iMac
MBA Rev C w/SSD
iPad 3G
iPhone (soon to be upgraded to iPhone 4)

I especially love the way they seamlessly interoperate.

/Jim

As usual Jim, I find myself agreeing with everything you said, particularly with respect to your assessment of the Flash situation, and the role Apple plays in this ordeal, especially given how it affects the end user. I think Apple made the right move, or at least moved in the right direction, but should have prepared their customers a little better. And although I don't agree with Scottsdale about the overall importance of Flash, I completely agree that Steve Jobs was foolish to imply that the web could be experienced fully without Flash.

There are many legitimate uses for Flash, and there is definitely a place for Flash on the web...the problem is that it was no longer serving "just" as a browser plugin, and was in fact defining the internet experience as a whole. I think Apple is the only company that is willing to risk its entire user base for something it believes in, especially given the long term consequences of what would happen if Adobe was left unchecked. Many people see actions like this as foolish, since it disrupts the user experience for almost all their customers in the short run, but Apple has a history of taking big risks.

As usual, the Flash debate has gotten me sidetracked on a long rant, lol. I love my MBA, but I also love my iOS devices. I see huge potential for all devices running iOS as the system matures and grows. However, regardless of how advanced it gets with respect to capabilities, it will always be destined for consumption or entertainment as long as it is based on the iTunes/AppStore model, and the resulting restrictions to file system, etc. If that changes though, all bets are off, and who knows what the future has in store.

Scottsdale
Jun 13, 2010, 09:42 PM
I agree with every word of this, except for one small fact. Core 2 Duo is essentially dead. For me, personally i would not spend a dime in any new computer that didn't at least come with an i5. I understand Jobs logic in wanting a battery life, and I understand the space issues involved. But for me, personally, I wish it was a BTO option.

Bri

C2D is dead to you and outdated? I think you have been influenced by Intel's marketing if that's the case. Seriously, computers don't need faster or newer CPUs. Apple could make its Macs so much better by focusing on any one of other components providing a better experience to the users. It is the user that influences the switch of CPUs, and it's based on Intel's marketing logic. Intel's marketing does the job for certain.

Apple did the right thing by sticking with C2D, and the reason is it gave its users a much better overall computing experience than it could have with Core i-series CPUs and Intel's worthless GMA graphics. Another factor is the fact that Apple's OS is far inferior when it comes to graphics drivers, OpenGL, and etc.

I would love to see Apple focus on faster drives and drive controllers. Then focus on better GPUs. Then focus on more RAM. And then focus on better software to take advantage of the hardware available... all of this should be done before it needs to upgrade the CPUs. All of these other constraints should be focused on. The reason the MBA "feels" faster than much more powerful Macs (in terms of CPU, RAM, and etc) is that they use an SSD which reduces the bottleneck in the drive and drive controller system.

I believe people need to learn more about what the constraints are in current Macs and demand a better system rather than focusing on a better CPU. We really don't need faster CPUs.

Spacekatgal
Jun 13, 2010, 10:23 PM
C2D is dead to you and outdated? I think you have been influenced by Intel's marketing if that's the case. Seriously, computers don't need faster or newer CPUs. Apple could make its Macs so much better by focusing on any one of other components providing a better experience to the users. It is the user that influences the switch of CPUs, and it's based on Intel's marketing logic. Intel's marketing does the job for certain.

Apple did the right thing by sticking with C2D, and the reason is it gave its users a much better overall computing experience than it could have with Core i-series CPUs and Intel's worthless GMA graphics. Another factor is the fact that Apple's OS is far inferior when it comes to graphics drivers, OpenGL, and etc.

I would love to see Apple focus on faster drives and drive controllers. Then focus on better GPUs. Then focus on more RAM. And then focus on better software to take advantage of the hardware available... all of this should be done before it needs to upgrade the CPUs. All of these other constraints should be focused on. The reason the MBA "feels" faster than much more powerful Macs (in terms of CPU, RAM, and etc) is that they use an SSD which reduces the bottleneck in the drive and drive controller system.

I believe people need to learn more about what the constraints are in current Macs and demand a better system rather than focusing on a better CPU. We really don't need faster CPUs.

I feel like that's a blanket statement, dude. It's not true for everyone.

I often use Illustrator for 8 hours a day, and when I'm not doing that I'm using Photoshop 8 hours a day. I also do a ton of Maya work, though that's less dependent on CPU and more on GPU. It's not marketing, I find the i5 and i7 to be a much faster processor for my workflow. The difference in performance is staggering to me between this generation's top of the line MBP and the last gen.

Revolving a 100,000 polygon object took about 20 seconds with my last machine. It takes half as long with this one. When you do that hundreds and hundreds of times to composite a scene, it really adds up.

C2D is not future proof. You're investing in something that's at the end of its life. The resale is also going to suck on those in a year or two.

For many people, C2D will probably be fine, but it's not something I would invest money in, personally.

Bri

halledise
Jun 13, 2010, 11:39 PM
Perhaps during this lull of updates to the MacBook Air others like me are seeing the 13" work well as an ultraportable ... hence the increasing possibility that Apple won't do anything with the Air. The next major update (early 2011?), could see the 13" MBP get thinner lighter and the MBA disappear ... if no update to the Air by the end of June then I'd bet this is the route Apple will take.

if that's indeed the case then current owners of the Air can take solace in the fact that their value should increase as a result of EOL-ing.
and as mentioned before, it's battery not optical drive that dteremines the thinness of a notebook

I tend to think that they will indeed continue with the product but only when the relevant combination of components become available.
puzzling they didn't bering a minor refresh of nVidia 320M coupled with the current C2Duo processors when thy did the recent 13" MBP bump.

suggests to me a more significant refresh when they work out the Intel/nVidia conundrum.

but hey what do I know, I'm from Australia and we can't even score 1 goal against Germany's 4. dunno why I got up in the wee small hours to watch a slaughter and still don't understand why we've got a Dutchman for our National coach :confused:

Scottsdale
Jun 14, 2010, 12:50 AM
if that's indeed the case then current owners of the Air can take solace in the fact that their value should increase as a result of EOL-ing.
and as mentioned before, it's battery not optical drive that dteremines the thinness of a notebook

I tend to think that they will indeed continue with the product but only when the relevant combination of components become available.
puzzling they didn't bering a minor refresh of nVidia 320M coupled with the current C2Duo processors when thy did the recent 13" MBP bump.

suggests to me a more significant refresh when they work out the Intel/nVidia conundrum.

but hey what do I know, I'm from Australia and we can't even score 1 goal against Germany's 4. dunno why I got up in the wee small hours to watch a slaughter and still don't understand why we've got a Dutchman for our National coach :confused:

The least Germany could have done is to have scored one for you guys... sorta like when Green scored one for the US by "pushing" it into his own net to tie up the game, LOL. Australia really looked like they were a bunch of chickens running around with their heads chopped off. Seriously now, what happened?

I don't for a minute think the MBA will be EOL'd. It just doesn't make sense. However, it could be left unchanged until Apple has a solution to the Intel GMA "problem." Apple is definitely a mobility company. Apple knows why the MBA sales are lacking, and Apple still makes half of its income selling Macs. There is no reason not to make an ultraportable Mac. With 4 GB RAM and larger drive options, the MBA would sell greatly. Apple should also make the MBA a high-end luxury Mac just as the Mac Pro. There is a market for ultraportables and every manufacturer is selling them. The MBA's branding might go EOL, but the ultraportable 3 lb. Mac OS X notebook is here to stay.

skate71290
Jun 14, 2010, 01:01 AM
I feel like that's a blanket statement, dude. It's not true for everyone.

I often use Illustrator for 8 hours a day, and when I'm not doing that I'm using Photoshop 8 hours a day. I also do a ton of Maya work, though that's less dependent on CPU and more on GPU. It's not marketing, I find the i5 and i7 to be a much faster processor for my workflow. The difference in performance is staggering to me between this generation's top of the line MBP and the last gen.

Revolving a 100,000 polygon object took about 20 seconds with my last machine. It takes half as long with this one. When you do that hundreds and hundreds of times to composite a scene, it really adds up.

C2D is not future proof. You're investing in something that's at the end of its life. The resale is also going to suck on those in a year or two.

For many people, C2D will probably be fine, but it's not something I would invest money in, personally.

Bri

For most computer illiterate people, such as my parents, they see Core i3/5/7 as something new, faster and a must have in computers even though many normal users will probably never ever require such power, and would benefit more from SSD and better RAM - Gulftown Processor in next MacBook Air ;)

skate71290
Jun 14, 2010, 01:07 AM
I personally don't get the need for a processor improvement. I feel the 2.13 GHz CPU is plenty capable. However, what would you expect Apple go with for the next MBA? Do you believe they will go with another C2D and Nvidia 320m or do you think it will be an Arrandale CPU with Intel's GMA as the sole graphics solution? Are you willing to give up your graphics performance to get a faster CPU?

The problem with adding an SSD to both models is the cost. It costs a ton of money for SSDs versus HDDs right now. I just feel the user must buy an SSD model. The MBA experience goes from brilliant with an SSD to poor with an HDD for the end user. I feel nobody should buy an HDD model, but I don't expect Apple to give people an SSD for free. Quite honestly, the price including an SSD in the MBA was amazing when introduced in June 2009. People are already getting the SSD for free, because before the pricing update the low-end was $1799.

I guess it all depends on benchmarks of various setups, but, because the MacBook Air is not really targeted for Gaming or heavy Photo/Video/Audio work, would having, for example the nVidia 330m with C2D seem, well, a little pointless? Would the MBA, for day to day use benefit more from an Arrandale i3 with Integrated Intel HD Graphics? Top end model:
-i3 Arrandale
-4GB RAM
-128 SSD
-Glass Trackpad

halledise
Jun 14, 2010, 01:41 AM
The least Germany could have done is to have scored one for you guys... sorta like when Green scored one for the US by "pushing" it into his own net to tie up the game, LOL. Australia really looked like they were a bunch of chickens running around with their heads chopped off. Seriously now, what happened?

a 'Cloggie' for a Coach :eek: who left 3 or our best players on the bench for the entire game :confused:, plus Mark Viduka (our hard man) retired recently :o

Jayomat
Jun 14, 2010, 04:42 AM
You are right that you can have either a 10 hour battery or a 3 pound ultra lightweight computer but not both.

ever heared of Thinkpad X200/X200s/X300 ?

JackLeBoul
Jun 14, 2010, 04:48 AM
Having 3 computers, I monitored my usage (in hours) last week to determine what and how much I used my stuff.

20'' iMac - 2.4Ghz 4GB Ram
MBA - 2.16 Ghz 128 GB SSD
WiFi iPad

MBA - 70% of my computing time
iMac - 25%
iPad 5%

Since I got my iPad I realize how much more I love the MBA.
The productivity compared to my other computer is significantly better on the MBA. One document I created using Pages which took me 2 hours on iPad and 25 min on MBA.

Jack

askduds
Jun 14, 2010, 05:49 AM
Having 3 computers, I monitored my usage (in hours) last week to determine what and how much I used my stuff.

20'' iMac - 2.4Ghz 4GB Ram
MBA - 2.16 Ghz 128 GB SSD
WiFi iPad

MBA - 70% of my computing time
iMac - 25%
iPad 5%

Since I got my iPad I realize how much more I love the MBA.
The productivity compared to my other computer is significantly better on the MBA. One document I created using Pages which took me 2 hours on iPad and 25 min on MBA.

Jack

How restricting do you find the 2GB RAM on the Air? That's my one worry with buying one of the current models. In 3 years I can happily imagine the C2D 2.16ghz being fine. I can certainly imagine not having a problem with the 128GB SSD.

But 2GB?

Spacekatgal
Jun 14, 2010, 09:03 AM
For most computer illiterate people, such as my parents, they see Core i3/5/7 as something new, faster and a must have in computers even though many normal users will probably never ever require such power, and would benefit more from SSD and better RAM - Gulftown Processor in next MacBook Air ;)

I totally agree with that. Still - perception is reality when it comes to resale. I typically keep my Macs for a year or two then sell them. I believe that any C2D chip will depreciate rapidly.

pharmx
Jun 14, 2010, 09:50 AM
I feel like that's a blanket statement, dude. It's not true for everyone.

I often use Illustrator for 8 hours a day, and when I'm not doing that I'm using Photoshop 8 hours a day. I also do a ton of Maya work, though that's less dependent on CPU and more on GPU. It's not marketing, I find the i5 and i7 to be a much faster processor for my workflow. The difference in performance is staggering to me between this generation's top of the line MBP and the last gen.

Revolving a 100,000 polygon object took about 20 seconds with my last machine. It takes half as long with this one. When you do that hundreds and hundreds of times to composite a scene, it really adds up.

C2D is not future proof. You're investing in something that's at the end of its life. The resale is also going to suck on those in a year or two.

For many people, C2D will probably be fine, but it's not something I would invest money in, personally.

Bri


All things in perspective though...if we're talking about the Air, most people would not be using it for Maya or extended Photoshop sessions. So with respect to the MBA, upgrades to other components would have a more noticeable impact on day to day use than a CPU bump. Improved SSD and increased RAM would have a much greater effect on performance than moving from C2D to i-Series, especially given the current GPU conundrum.

That being said though, the 13 inch "Pro" model sticking with a C2D is a tough sell. Anything with a "Pro" designation should have the latest tech, even if it comes with a cost to battery life. The whole point of being a professional product line is having bleeding edge tech. With mobile products this becomes tricky, since a balance must be reached to satisfy opposing ends of that pendulum. We'll never know all the details, negotiations, and complications that went on behind the scenes, resulting in the current 13" MBP...but I'm pretty sure Apple would never have refreshed it with the C2D unless it was forced to. Steve Jobs, being the lemonade out of lemons type of guy that he is, was able to market the decision as a good thing due to the improved battery performance.

In my opinion, the MBA and the 13" MBP (and to a lesser extent, the high end MB) need to be re-evaluated with regards to the demographic that are making the purchase, and the role these laptops play in Apple's lineup. I think the success of the 13" MBP has to due with the fact that it hits the sweetspot of price/functionality, causing purchases from people who otherwise would have bought an MB (students), MBA (business), or MBP (professional).

Metlin
Jun 14, 2010, 10:15 AM
How restricting do you find the 2GB RAM on the Air? That's my one worry with buying one of the current models. In 3 years I can happily imagine the C2D 2.16ghz being fine. I can certainly imagine not having a problem with the 128GB SSD.

But 2GB?

That would depend on your needs. For the work that I do (which, arguably is only run office applications with music/video and web), it works quite well with no problems.

Gaelic2
Jun 14, 2010, 10:38 AM
I have no desire to replace my MBA. I only use it as an adjunct to my iMac 24" when I travel. I use it to load up and edit photos and some movies, check e-mail, the net etc. It does all this well enough for short periods when I'm away. Had the iPad been available at the time, I would have opted for it and just did my editing at home, since the cost differential is considerable. I will not replace the MBA with another, updated one when it comes out.

gwsat
Jun 14, 2010, 10:48 AM
There are many legitimate uses for Flash, and there is definitely a place for Flash on the web...the problem is that it was no longer serving "just" as a browser plugin, and was in fact defining the internet experience as a whole. I think Apple is the only company that is willing to risk its entire user base for something it believes in, especially given the long term consequences of what would happen if Adobe was left unchecked. Many people see actions like this as foolish, since it disrupts the user experience for almost all their customers in the short run, but Apple has a history of taking big risks.
You are right. Apple's decision not to provide Flash support for iOS for the iPad was simply insupportable, the rationalizations of Steve Jobs and the Apple apologists here not withstanding. Because of the absence of Flash support, the Web browsing experience with the iPad is inadequate. Period, paragraph, end of report.

On another topic, I suggest that it would be the rare 13 inch Mac buyer, indeed, whose computing needs were so demanding, an i5 or i7 CPU would provide dramatically faster throughput than they could get with the C2D. For most everyday uses, improved graphics, additional RAM, and an SSD would provide far more improvement than a faster CPU.

AlanShutko
Jun 14, 2010, 10:50 AM
I have a Rev A MBA, and I often find myself in 1-2GB of swap. If a MBA is released with more RAM, I'm ordering it.

My main uses are DEVONthink, with some limited photo sorting in Aperture. (Editing is usually on a desktop.)

pharmx
Jun 14, 2010, 11:23 AM
...

On another topic, I suggest that it would be the rare 13 inch Mac buyer, indeed, whose computing needs were so demanding, an i5 or i7 CPU would provide dramatically faster throughput than they could get with the C2D. For most everyday uses, improved graphics, additional RAM, and an SSD would provide far more improvement than a faster CPU.

Alright, so which one would you choose:

Option A
- Current 13" MBP but without without optical drive and smaller battery
- Extra space used to bring the cpu/gpu combo on par with the 15/17 inch models
- Weight/size remain approximately the same

Option B
- Current MBA with improved CPU/GPU (utilizing the i-Series + ATI/custom nvidida solution we've talked about in this/other threads)
- 4GB soldered RAM, 256GB SSD

Option C
- Some sort of MBA/iPad hybrid. Either an iPad with a clamshell design or an MBA with touchscreen and detachable keyboard.
- It could run MacOSX when "assembled" or attached to the special keyboard dock, or iOS when separate.

bluescity
Jun 14, 2010, 12:11 PM
Perhaps a better thread question than the current one is - suppose Apple announces the end of the MBA. Then what do you do?

On that note - my MBP just arrived. My first impression out of the box is, ironically, "wow, it's light."

This recalls the relativity of weight point. As I'm switching from a 2006 MacBook, which I think already weighed over 5, the 13 MBP feels - to me - already much lighter. So I've got the advantages of feeling like I have a lighter machine, the power, and the immediacy (i.e. no more waiting :D)

gwsat
Jun 14, 2010, 12:22 PM
Alright, so which one would you choose:

Option A
- Current 13" MBP but without without optical drive and smaller battery
- Extra space used to bring the cpu/gpu combo on par with the 15/17 inch models
- Weight/size remain approximately the same

Option B
- Current MBA with improved CPU/GPU (utilizing the i-Series + ATI/custom nvidida solution we've talked about in this/other threads)
- 4GB soldered RAM, 256GB SSD

Option C
- Some sort of MBA/iPad hybrid. Either an iPad with a clamshell design or an MBA with touchscreen and detachable keyboard.
- It could run MacOSX when "assembled" or attached to the special keyboard dock, or iOS when separate.
Option A doesn't appeal to me. I think that the 13 inch MBP's long battery life is one of its most appealing features.

Option B, is intriguing. An MBA with 4Gb of RAM and somewhat better CPU and graphics makes sense to me. I might buy one of those.

I can't quite get my head around Option C. Some sort of hybrid between the iPad and MBA might work but I would have to see it before deciding whether it might work for me.

Perhaps a better thread question than the current one is - suppose Apple announces the end of the MBA. Then what do you do?

On that note - my MBP just arrived. My first impression out of the box is, ironically, "wow, it's light."

This recalls the relativity of weight point. As I'm switching from a 2006 MacBook, which I think already weighed over 5, the 13 MBP feels - to me - already much lighter. So I've got the advantages of feeling like I have a lighter machine, the power, and the immediacy (i.e. no more waiting :D)
If Apple did EOL the MBA I would probably buy a 13 inch MBP instead. It is significantly heavier than the MBA but, as you noted, is quite small and light by most standards. Better yet, it is far more powerful and feature rich than the MBA. As I noted in an earlier post, I am coming around to the notion that Apple just might EOL the MBA.

Scottsdale
Jun 14, 2010, 12:24 PM
All things in perspective though...if we're talking about the Air, most people would not be using it for Maya or extended Photoshop sessions. So with respect to the MBA, upgrades to other components would have a more noticeable impact on day to day use than a CPU bump. Improved SSD and increased RAM would have a much greater effect on performance than moving from C2D to i-Series, especially given the current GPU conundrum.

That being said though, the 13 inch "Pro" model sticking with a C2D is a tough sell. Anything with a "Pro" designation should have the latest tech, even if it comes with a cost to battery life. The whole point of being a professional product line is having bleeding edge tech. With mobile products this becomes tricky, since a balance must be reached to satisfy opposing ends of that pendulum. We'll never know all the details, negotiations, and complications that went on behind the scenes, resulting in the current 13" MBP...but I'm pretty sure Apple would never have refreshed it with the C2D unless it was forced to. Steve Jobs, being the lemonade out of lemons type of guy that he is, was able to market the decision as a good thing due to the improved battery performance.

In my opinion, the MBA and the 13" MBP (and to a lesser extent, the high end MB) need to be re-evaluated with regards to the demographic that are making the purchase, and the role these laptops play in Apple's lineup. I think the success of the 13" MBP has to due with the fact that it hits the sweetspot of price/functionality, causing purchases from people who otherwise would have bought an MB (students), MBA (business), or MBP (professional).


EXACTLY! The MBA is NOT marketed for someone doing advanced graphics design and 3D modeling programs. The MBA is PERFECTION for its target market. Those are biz pros, doctors, professors, grad students, and the tech enthusiast... some for primary computers others for primary NOTEBOOKS. Many would have a Mac Pro for heavy lifting and just want a REAL computer for remote stuff but don't need it for heavy remote stuff. I have a client with an engineer who switched to MBA for a lot of stuff, but his other computer is a Mac Pro. I know a lot of professors, consultants, and executives who use MBAs as their sole and primary computer. So it's targeted for those two roles, at luxury pricing. It's not meant to be a MacBook Pro, it's meant as a MacBook-type experience in a case light as Air.

I don't get it when pros say the MBP is right and the MBA is a joke, or worthless or whatever. If they think that, with the "more power" attitude, the MBA was never marketed for them anyways... The MBA is a hell of an ultraportable, but it is an ultraportable not a full powered MBP. For someone "playing" with Adobe CS products like Photoshop it's fine, but it's not for those who make a living off those apps. If you read someone say, the MBP is more powerful and half the price, then they were NOT the target market. The target market doesn't mind the price, and they know they don't need a MacBook PRO. There is a difference, and I believe Apple will make it clear whenever it does update the MBA. We are likely to eventually see Intel's GMA in the MBA whether we like it or not, and it's because we're not Pros and we don't need anything more than HD video playback. People shouldn't buy an MBA for games nor for advanced "Pro" workloads. Apple is steadily improving OS X which will make the GMA function much better for HD video playback. The thing is the Intel GMA is perfect for the average user in Windows 7. However, it lacks in OS X because the graphics software needs to be better. It's just like using the MBA now with Windows 7, as it makes it more like a more advanced computer with the 9400m. Windows is far superior in graphics as there are better drivers taking advantage of the right APIs, utilizing OpenGL and h.264 to make an incredible entertainment type experience. Even then, it's not marketed as such, as it's not marketed with Windows 7. But it is capable, that's for sure. Anyone can install Windows 7 and see the amazing results versus OS X on the same hardware.

Spacekatgal
Jun 14, 2010, 12:51 PM
All things in perspective though...if we're talking about the Air, most people would not be using it for Maya or extended Photoshop sessions. So with respect to the MBA, upgrades to other components would have a more noticeable impact on day to day use than a CPU bump. Improved SSD and increased RAM would have a much greater effect on performance than moving from C2D to i-Series, especially given the current GPU conundrum.

That being said though, the 13 inch "Pro" model sticking with a C2D is a tough sell. Anything with a "Pro" designation should have the latest tech, even if it comes with a cost to battery life. The whole point of being a professional product line is having bleeding edge tech. With mobile products this becomes tricky, since a balance must be reached to satisfy opposing ends of that pendulum. We'll never know all the details, negotiations, and complications that went on behind the scenes, resulting in the current 13" MBP...but I'm pretty sure Apple would never have refreshed it with the C2D unless it was forced to. Steve Jobs, being the lemonade out of lemons type of guy that he is, was able to market the decision as a good thing due to the improved battery performance.

In my opinion, the MBA and the 13" MBP (and to a lesser extent, the high end MB) need to be re-evaluated with regards to the demographic that are making the purchase, and the role these laptops play in Apple's lineup. I think the success of the 13" MBP has to due with the fact that it hits the sweetspot of price/functionality, causing purchases from people who otherwise would have bought an MB (students), MBA (business), or MBP (professional).

I want to be clear here, because I think there is some confusion. I'm talking about the i5/i7 chip with the 13 inch MBP. That is all, not the MBA, Scotsdale. I am in agreement with you that there are many things I'm willing to compromise for the ultraportable experience.

It's why I'm quite happy to make those compromises in the iPad.

But yes, PharmX, I am in total agreement. If this is a "pro" level computer, than the newest processor must be at least a BTO option. But, I agree with you that there are so many other things that would improve the user experience - and they have nothing to do with the CPU.

The moment I decided to sell my MBA rev C was a week ago. I'd been using my iPad for a month. I opened the clamshell and waited a while for the system to catch up and let me use it. After that I launched mail, watched the spinning beachball for several seconds, and waited for it to labor to check my mail. After that I launched Safari, and waited for the system to catch up. It was drastically apparent to me that the MBA was an inferior experience to the iPad in the areas I cared about - speed, portability, and battery life.

I would totally be willing to do C2D in a new MBA, if it addressed those three areas. I am not willing to sacrifice that in a member of the Macbook Pro line. If it's a pro laptop, it needs to be able to run pro applications. I am, of course, willing to pay more than $1,200 to get that.

pharmx
Jun 14, 2010, 12:59 PM
EXACTLY! The MBA is NOT marketed for someone doing advanced graphics design and 3D modeling programs. The MBA is PERFECTION for its target market. Those are biz pros, doctors, professors, grad students, and the tech enthusiast... some for primary computers others for primary NOTEBOOKS. Many would have a Mac Pro for heavy lifting and just want a REAL computer for remote stuff but don't need it for heavy remote stuff. I have a client with an engineer who switched to MBA for a lot of stuff, but his other computer is a Mac Pro. I know a lot of professors, consultants, and executives who use MBAs as their sole and primary computer. So it's targeted for those two roles, at luxury pricing. It's not meant to be a MacBook Pro, it's meant as a MacBook-type experience in a case light as Air.

I don't get it when pros say the MBP is right and the MBA is a joke, or worthless or whatever. If they think that, with the "more power" attitude, the MBA was never marketed for them anyways... The MBA is a hell of an ultraportable, but it is an ultraportable not a full powered MBP. For someone "playing" with Adobe CS products like Photoshop it's fine, but it's not for those who make a living off those apps. If you read someone say, the MBP is more powerful and half the price, then they were NOT the target market. The target market doesn't mind the price, and they know they don't need a MacBook PRO. There is a difference, and I believe Apple will make it clear whenever it does update the MBA. We are likely to eventually see Intel's GMA in the MBA whether we like it or not, and it's because we're not Pros and we don't need anything more than HD video playback. People shouldn't buy an MBA for games nor for advanced "Pro" workloads. Apple is steadily improving OS X which will make the GMA function much better for HD video playback. The thing is the Intel GMA is perfect for the average user in Windows 7. However, it lacks in OS X because the graphics software needs to be better. It's just like using the MBA now with Windows 7, as it makes it more like a more advanced computer with the 9400m. Windows is far superior in graphics as there are better drivers taking advantage of the right APIs, utilizing OpenGL and h.264 to make an incredible entertainment type experience. Even then, it's not marketed as such, as it's not marketed with Windows 7. But it is capable, that's for sure. Anyone can install Windows 7 and see the amazing results versus OS X on the same hardware.

I think we will start seeing a shift as Apple slowly weans itself off of Intel, nVidia, and other "middlemen". As iOS devices proliferate and generate revenue, more models will be introduced that help mature iOS, advance its capabilities, and take it to the next level. This will coincide with a greater percentage of Apple's product line running on their own A(x) series SoC.

I think right now, while iOS is still in its infancy, Apple is playing more of an observational role, waiting to see how far developers can push the envelope with what is currently available. The iPhone is already doing much more than what people originally thought it could do, and it continues to be used in ways limited only by the imagination of the developers designing for it. The iPad will push those "limits" even further. And all of this in spite of the many restrictions and obstacles.

Once Apple is ready, I think we will see a flurry of events that will shed light on some of the "strange" decisions that Steve Jobs & Co. has made with respect to acquisitions, how they've aligned their products within the market, and direction/focus of mobility. With the amount of capital they have at their disposal, construction of a data center, and concentration on iOS...I think we are in for some really interesting things in the near future.

Spacekatgal
Jun 14, 2010, 01:00 PM
Also, I just wanted to say I've owned an Octocore MP. I've maxed it out with SSDs in a RAID, and top of the line GPUs. And I've also come to the conclusion that it's totally underpowered for the money. I sold it and got the i7 27 inch iMac - which is a much better deal for the money.

For GAs like myself, a portable workstation is a highly desirable thing. We tend to work weird hours, and like to sneak off to coffee shops and restaurants to stay energetic creatively.

Bri

pharmx
Jun 14, 2010, 01:28 PM
I want to be clear here, because I think there is some confusion. I'm talking about the i5/i7 chip with the 13 inch MBP. That is all, not the MBA, Scotsdale. I am in agreement with you that there are many things I'm willing to compromise for the ultraportable experience.

It's why I'm quite happy to make those compromises in the iPad.

But yes, PharmX, I am in total agreement. If this is a "pro" level computer, than the newest processor must be at least a BTO option. But, I agree with you that there are so many other things that would improve the user experience - and they have nothing to do with the CPU.

The moment I decided to sell my MBA rev C was a week ago. I'd been using my iPad for a month. I opened the clamshell and waited a while for the system to catch up and let me use it. After that I launched mail, watched the spinning beachball for several seconds, and waited for it to labor to check my mail. After that I launched Safari, and waited for the system to catch up. It was drastically apparent to me that the MBA was an inferior experience to the iPad in the areas I cared about - speed, portability, and battery life.

I would totally be willing to do C2D in a new MBA, if it addressed those three areas. I am not willing to sacrifice that in a member of the Macbook Pro line. If it's a pro laptop, it needs to be able to run pro applications. I am, of course, willing to pay more than $1,200 to get that.

I'm starting to get the impression that my MBA is the exception and not the norm. As an owner of both an iPad and an MBA, I can agree that the "instant-on" feeling of the iPad is very nice and has a snappy feel to it. There are of course several reasons for this, but limited functionality and scope play a big part. However, my Air is no slouch for the tasks you just mentioned either. Opening the clamshell and waiting for the OS is practically instant. Even if the Air is completely shut down, booting up takes very little time, and is significantly faster than any desktop or laptop I've owned or even seen. I attribute most of this speed to the SSD. I definitely don't see a beachball when checking mail or running Safari, FireFox, or any of the other browsers I have installed. However, I'm very minimalistic and methodical with how I use my MBA. I almost never have multiple applications running simultaneously, and always exit an application when I'm done using it instead of minimizing it or having it open in the background.

Ironically the slowest application on my MBA (and the only one that consistently beachballs for a few seconds) is iTunes, and that is probably due to the ginormous library of apps I have downloaded. Of course, I also don't use my MBA for anything that is CPU/GPU intensive. I think if I was able to increase the RAM and SSD size of my current MBA, and get Apple to release optimized drivers...I would not even be worried about when/if there was going to be an MBA refresh, or if it was going to be EOL'd.

JackLeBoul
Jun 14, 2010, 04:45 PM
That would depend on your needs. For the work that I do (which, arguably is only run office applications with music/video and web), it works quite well with no problems.


Not often.
I run all iLife and iWork suites as well as Aperture without any problems.
More ram is always useful, especially if you are heavy Photoshop and alike.
Mostly because these programs tend to be bloated more than anything else.

If you can, wait for next version, which will have 4 GB ram, but if fancy a used on ebay then I would think that for most uses it will suffice. However, buy then the current version. I have owned all three rev. of MBA and found the previous specs a bit underpowered.

JackLeBoul
Jun 14, 2010, 04:47 PM
How restricting do you find the 2GB RAM on the Air? That's my one worry with buying one of the current models. In 3 years I can happily imagine the C2D 2.16ghz being fine. I can certainly imagine not having a problem with the 128GB SSD.

But 2GB?

Not often.
I run all iLife and iWork suites as well as Aperture without any problems.
More ram is always useful, especially if you are heavy Photoshop and alike.
Mostly because these programs tend to be bloated more than anything else.

If you can, wait for next version, which will have 4 GB ram, but if fancy a used on ebay then I would think that for most uses it will suffice. However, buy then the current version. I have owned all three rev. of MBA and found the previous specs a bit underpowered.

Mhkobe
Jun 14, 2010, 05:01 PM
EXACTLY! The MBA is NOT marketed for someone doing advanced graphics design and 3D modeling programs.

My MBA works fine for C4D, and therefore I agree with you (I think this is your opinion, though I am not sure) and many others that a core ix cpu is unnecessary.

With this new (for me, maybe somebody else has thought this before me) thought, I think all that I can possibly want from apple now is a larger SSD, and 4Gb RAM.

Scottsdale
Jun 14, 2010, 10:53 PM
I want to be clear here, because I think there is some confusion. I'm talking about the i5/i7 chip with the 13 inch MBP. That is all, not the MBA, Scotsdale. I am in agreement with you that there are many things I'm willing to compromise for the ultraportable experience.

It's why I'm quite happy to make those compromises in the iPad.

But yes, PharmX, I am in total agreement. If this is a "pro" level computer, than the newest processor must be at least a BTO option. But, I agree with you that there are so many other things that would improve the user experience - and they have nothing to do with the CPU.

The moment I decided to sell my MBA rev C was a week ago. I'd been using my iPad for a month. I opened the clamshell and waited a while for the system to catch up and let me use it. After that I launched mail, watched the spinning beachball for several seconds, and waited for it to labor to check my mail. After that I launched Safari, and waited for the system to catch up. It was drastically apparent to me that the MBA was an inferior experience to the iPad in the areas I cared about - speed, portability, and battery life.

I would totally be willing to do C2D in a new MBA, if it addressed those three areas. I am not willing to sacrifice that in a member of the Macbook Pro line. If it's a pro laptop, it needs to be able to run pro applications. I am, of course, willing to pay more than $1,200 to get that.

In your case too. MOST users are better off with a better system for MOST tasks than a faster CPU. Jobs and co made absolutely the correct decision IF it honestly couldn't fit a discrete GPU in the 13" MBP with a Core i-series CPU. That Intel GMA might to okay in Windows, but with the trash drivers and graphics system in OS X, it's pathetic at best. If Apple could fit the discrete GPU in the 13" MBP and they were trying to save an extra $15, then it's pathetic that they didn't bite the bullet and put an Arrandale CPU and discrete GPU in there. Part of the problem is they want people to buy the "upsell" 15" MBPs for MORE MONEY. If the 13" MBP has the same graphics, people will stop buying 15" MBPs, because they all plug them into 24" LED ACDs and etc displays at home. So there are many factors playing here.

I hope for the sake of the MBA, that Apple has some discrete GPU up its sleeve... but I doubt it. I think it will ultimately either move to AMD/ATI or drop its strategy and go with Intel's worthless GMA. There just aren't many options once Intel had to play dirty.

In the end, it's going to be an SoC design as Pharmx stated. None of us will be fighting over "GHz" as it will come down to A7 vs. A8 and we won't know what either is... well we will but they will not market it that way. Thanks to iFixIt.com, I think they will figure out what's what. But Apple has been sneaky good in providing an amazing SoC A4 design that people thought had to be a Cortex A9 when it really was just an A8. Apple can be really good when it puts some effort into it. In the future, I pray Intel is out of the picture. However, I am a luxury prosumer buyer not a pro. Pros may dislike where Apple goes, as they're going to compare Apple's SoC vs. PCs with Intel 7 GHz fazzle-madazzles (Madeup word signifying what's down the road). The pro users will definitely fall out of love with a "consumer electronics" Apple, Inc.

askduds
Jun 15, 2010, 01:58 AM
Perhaps a better thread question than the current one is - suppose Apple announces the end of the MBA. Then what do you do?


Shrug and buy that MBP I suspect.

tokyotribe
Jun 15, 2010, 03:35 AM
If Scottsdale says to wait 6 weeks, I'll wait 6 weeks. :)

I agree that the white MB is a great value though, especially now that the specs are almost identical to the entry-level MBP. Even after bumping up the RAM to 4GB, its still cheaper. I had an old iBook that lasted 9 years, so I don't doubt the durability of plastic.

Mac Mini just got updated today, so maybe there's hope for the MBA!

askduds
Jun 15, 2010, 03:49 AM
My 30th birthday is at the end of July so any macbook I buy is basically a present to me anyway. I can certainly give them that long to update and this silent macmini update is good news in that respect.

Wyvers
Jun 15, 2010, 04:18 AM
If the Air follows suit are we going to see a possible update 5 weeks from now with 2.4GHz and 2.66GHz flavors? This is based off the fact that the MBP was updated then roughly one month later it was the MB and now the Mac Mini. I'm still crossing my fingers that it'll be updated tomorrow :)

soph
Jun 15, 2010, 04:49 AM
If the Air follows suit are we going to see a possible update 5 weeks from now with 2.4GHz and 2.66GHz flavors? This is based off the fact that the MBP was updated then roughly one month later it was the MB and now the Mac Mini. I'm still crossing my fingers that it'll be updated tomorrow :)
I've no hopes for tomorrow.

It's been 5 weeks between the Macbook Pro and the Macbook update, and now it's been 4 weeks between Macbook and Mac Mini.
3-4 weeks until either MBA or iMac 21 to the same specs, anyone?

tim100
Jun 15, 2010, 04:56 AM
new mini. no air update today. for the mini to get updated before the mba, I bet alot of people on here will be very upset. just give up get a macbook pro. air is dead.

halledise
Jun 15, 2010, 06:11 AM
new mini. no air update today. for the mini to get updated before the mba, I bet alot of people on here will be very upset. just give up get a macbook pro. air is dead.

no it's not - just be patient.
the Mini peeps have waited a looooooooooooooooong time.

the big brothers with Mac Pro's aren't freaking out, thus neither do us Air fans.

have faith, Steve will deliver :D

tim100
Jun 15, 2010, 06:21 AM
no it's not - just be patient.
the Mini peeps have waited a looooooooooooooooong time.

the big brothers with Mac Pro's aren't freaking out, thus neither do us Air fans.

have faith, Steve will deliver :D

yea just like the iphone 4 pre orders. been trying to pre order for 2 hours.

Spacekatgal
Jun 15, 2010, 07:06 AM
I love the new design.

I have to say, Apple snuck up on us with this one! Maybe we'll get a new Air after all!

askduds
Jun 15, 2010, 11:29 AM
It's hard to remember now, but what was OSX like when it first launched? It was a promising mess, right? iOS is still in its infancy. I have a strong belief that in time it will overcome the limitations that have been so commonly discussed.

It won't while Apple's control over what you can do is so great but that's not the issue, the issue is that it's NOT "in its infancy", it's at the 4th major release. It's "Tiger".

Scottsdale
Jun 15, 2010, 01:43 PM
If Scottsdale says to wait 6 weeks, I'll wait 6 weeks. :)

I agree that the white MB is a great value though, especially now that the specs are almost identical to the entry-level MBP. Even after bumping up the RAM to 4GB, its still cheaper. I had an old iBook that lasted 9 years, so I don't doubt the durability of plastic.

Mac Mini just got updated today, so maybe there's hope for the MBA!

I think there's actually no more hope for the MBA this update cycle. I would have expected the MBA update when the Mac mini was updated. The only positive thought I have is a Mac media event. Apple could still introduce new Mac Pros and MacBook Airs, along with LED ACDs, iMac, AppleTV, the 22" iMac touchscreen and etc.

I would say it's a long shot now though. Much more realistic is an October or January update. Probably either Intel Arrandale with GMA or AMD/ATI solution.

I believe Apple must have decided there isn't a C2D to "update" to so they just left the MBA untouched. There's the other possibilities that something happens sooner with Arrandale or AMD/ATI. But it seems far less probable now.

I am going to buy a new Mac mini Server to play around with for a few months. I will have it do my Windows work, and I will remove Windows from my MBA. With OS X running, and better and better graphics drivers coming out for my MBA, it will still be the most amazing ultraportable available. It just will not match my wants. It will match my needs with 2 GB RAM, but it will not match my wants of being able to run Windows 7 in a VM.

I would tell anyone to stop waiting for the MBA update if they NEED something now. I don't believe, as many others do, that the MBA will be EOL'd. I just believe Apple decided not to update it this cycle because there was no "update" in the SL9x00 C2D CPU series available.

October or January seem most realistic. Maybe October for AMD/ATI. Probably January if only Intel Arrandale with GMA.

Apple has really left us MBA fans out of the loop for way too long. It's terribly disappointing.

gwsat
Jun 15, 2010, 02:05 PM
I like the idea of using a Mac mini Server as a Windows machine, too. In that connection, does anyone have any experience with using Apple Remote Desktop on an internal wireless network and remotely? If it's possible do do that and reasonably fast, the combination of the Mac Mini Server running Windows and ARD to control it from another computer seems like a natural.

skate71290
Jun 15, 2010, 03:35 PM
@ Scottsdale, early as next January, that seems optimistic :rolleyes: i reckon Q1 2015 with Ivy Bridge Processors will be our next update ;)

gwsat
Jun 15, 2010, 03:40 PM
@ Scottsdale, early as next January, that seems optimistic :rolleyes: i reckon Q1 2015 with Ivy Bridge Processors will be our next update ;)
I am pretty sure you were joking but your post presents a good platform for a serious comment anyway. It seems to me that sometime around the first of the year is going to be now or never time for the MBA. If it hasn't been updated by then, I strongly suspect that it never will be.

skate71290
Jun 15, 2010, 03:42 PM
I am pretty sure you were joking but your post presents a good platform for a serious comment anyway. It seems to me that sometime around the first of the year is going to be now or never time for the MBA. If it hasn't been updated by then, I strongly suspect that it never will be.

Yes i was joking, it's so hard to show sarcasm with text lol, Ivy Bridge is coming Q4 2012, and it would be a killer in the MBA, and i'm agreeing with both you and Scottsdale, if we don't see a new MBA by January 2011 (3 year anniversary?) then we never will :(

Spacekatgal
Jun 15, 2010, 04:12 PM
Wouldn't they EOL it if they had no intention of revisiting it at some point? The fast that they updated the page today is small comfort at least.

voicegy
Jun 15, 2010, 10:05 PM
Tuesday June 29th for new MBA. <draws line in sand>:D

gyus
Jun 23, 2010, 11:32 PM
I pulled out my old Pismo and used it for a week. At first, it was kinda painful: had to run adblock with flash block to surf the web, but for email and word processing and light surfing it was fine (consider that its 10 year old G3!). Then switched back the to my g4 running leopard - man it felt like a smoking fast feather weight next to my Pismo!

Note : in retrospect I got more work done with my g3 ! I never realized ho much time I wasted on youtube, and other sites, once thats gone...

OGDaniel
Jul 10, 2010, 04:10 PM
It's really a shame they didn't update the MacBook Air at WWDC this year. I was thinking yesterday though about the Mac Mini and the MBA, and they made the MIni smaller and sleeker this year, and that maybe the Mac Mini had about the same volume as the MBA. After going and getting the measurements and finding the volume of each machine, the Mac Mini has 83 cubed inches, and the MBA has 86.5 cubed inches.

Also, the current Mac Mini can have much more hard drive space, 320 or 500 GB and the Mac Mini only 120 GB. And the Mac Mini has faster processors available as well, 2.4 or 2.66 GHz, compared to the MBA's 1.86 or 2.13 GHz. And they fit a disc drive in the Mini. Either a big MBA update is coming soon, or they're discontinuing it, and I think it's the latter.

ChemGolf
Jul 10, 2010, 04:13 PM
Don't forget the battery in the MBA. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the component having the largest volume itself.

Schtumple
Jul 10, 2010, 04:17 PM
You're forgetting the MBA has a rather large battery inside of it...

And the MBA is pointlessly thin towards the edges, the Mac Mini is the perfection of form and function, the MBA is form over function, by a long way.

raccoontail
Jul 10, 2010, 10:31 PM
And the MBA is pointlessly thin towards the edges, the Mac Mini is the perfection of form and function,

I wouldn't call the mini design perfect: Putting the SD slot up front would make a lot more sense than the back, and the internal power supply is a huge step backwards for those using the mini as a server. Power supplies fail often, and internal ones take MUCH longer to replace.

Schtumple
Jul 11, 2010, 08:10 AM
I wouldn't call the mini design perfect: Putting the SD slot up front would make a lot more sense than the back, and the internal power supply is a huge step backwards for those using the mini as a server. Power supplies fail often, and internal ones take MUCH longer to replace.

I dunno it's not a big hardship to reach to the back and plug it in, plus at the front it would wreck the nice design, as for the internal power supply I think it's brilliant for the consumer version, but I can understand it for the server edition.

thinkdesign
Jul 11, 2010, 08:30 AM
Scottsdale... What do you think -- in terms of possible synchronicity to an
Air update -- of the new rumor about... 60 days until an announcement of an iMac with an iOS layer on top of the O/S, so that it can have a touch screen?


Another opportunity to bundle an Air announcement with some other announcement?

That rumor is said to have a weak source... some blog I never heard of. The one thing that could conceivably ring true about it would be -- it would be big enough to partly fulfill the official Apple remarks about this year having a strong amount of new items, and "taking it to the next level". Really... the new phone CAN'T be ALL of "the next level"... (a better screen plus videocalling on wi-fi only... the latter being a feature of interest to less than half of phone users).

If Apple has AMD make a new chip for the Air... or at least Apple gets it first... could the FIRST we hear of it be -- Apple's Air announcement?

kyochin
Jul 11, 2010, 12:56 PM
My mac is PBG4 12inch 1.5ghz so another few months whatsoever will not make any differences...

celo48
Jul 11, 2010, 10:16 PM
Today, I was at an Apple store. I asked one of the employees if MBA would be discontinued. He said yes, it will be. I am not sure if he really knew something or just said it but that's what he said (unfortunately!).

BornAgainMac
Jul 12, 2010, 09:03 AM
Today, I was at an Apple store. I asked one of the employees if MBA would be discontinued. He said yes, it will be. I am not sure if he really knew something or just said it but that's what he said (unfortunately!).

That is terrible news.

gwsat
Jul 12, 2010, 09:54 AM
Today, I was at an Apple store. I asked one of the employees if MBA would be discontinued. He said yes, it will be. I am not sure if he really knew something or just said it but that's what he said (unfortunately!).
I can't imagine that an Apple Store employee has reliable information about the future of the MBA. Those guys are characteristically kept as much in the dark as we are.

AtmChm
Jul 12, 2010, 10:06 AM
Today, I was at an Apple store. I asked one of the employees if MBA would be discontinued. He said yes, it will be. I am not sure if he really knew something or just said it but that's what he said (unfortunately!).

Thank God I put my order in Friday!

thinkdesign
Jul 12, 2010, 10:07 AM
... that was just a salesperson saying whatever seemed like it might reel in the customer.

A sales associate in a store is someone way too low on Apple's food chain, to have any insider info.

IMHO better forecasting is to be found on a blog like this... from an Airophile like Scottsdale...
... Probably it gets revised very early next year. And it's easy to guess that since they passed up the chance to bump the Air's specs a bit, a la the Macbook and Mac Mini recently) they're probably saving up several changes for that early 2011 revision.

gwsat
Jul 12, 2010, 10:48 AM
... that was just a salesperson saying whatever seemed like it might reel in the customer.

A sales associate in a store is someone way too low on Apple's food chain, to have any insider info.

IMHO better forecasting is to be found on a blog like this... from an Airophile like Scottsdale...
... Probably it gets revised very early next year. And it's easy to guess that since they passed up the chance to bump the Air's specs a bit, a la the Macbook and Mac Mini recently) they're probably saving up several changes for that early 2011 revision.
Although I am not prepared to dismiss the possibility that Apple might discontinue the MBA, I continue to think the chances it will be updated are greater than the chances that it be discontinued.

Spacekatgal
Jul 12, 2010, 11:01 AM
Although I am not prepared to dismiss the possibility that Apple might discontinue the MBA, I continue to think the chances it will be updated are greater than the chances that it be discontinued.

I also feel this way. I also think a salesperson at the Apple Store has no more information than a regular reader of the rumor sites has. It's just conjecture.

C-Rad
Jul 12, 2010, 09:21 PM
Hey guys,

I signed up purely to give thanks to you all for such a massive insight to the MBA cycle... particular thanks to Scottsdale, his words to forget about the update if you need something now have really sold me.

I have *never* owned a laptop and in fact never owned a mac but I just signed a 3 month contract for work over in Singapore (i'm Australia based) and I will be heading to LA next week to present at SIGGRAPH and then after the Singapore job i'm off to Rio for more work!

My dad has traveled for work for YEARS and i've seen him struggle with weight so I know that I need something as light as possible and the MBA was definitely my favourite until I heard about the potential update...

I think I will grab the MBA and if an update comes then i'll get that and surprise my girlfriend with a new laptop :P


Cheers guys!

celo48
Jul 12, 2010, 09:44 PM
I am also almost always skeptical when I hear rumors from sales people. So, I am there with you guys but I just wanted to share what he said. I just hope it is not true and an update is coming soon, too soon!

gwsat
Jul 13, 2010, 09:21 AM
I am also almost always skeptical when I hear rumors from sales people. So, I am there with you guys but I just wanted to share what he said. I just hope it is not true and an update is coming soon, too soon!
Although I didn't think what the Apple Store employee told you was credible I thought you were right to pass what he said on to us. After all, a rumor doesn't necessarily have to be true and without rumors there would be no Mac Rumors.:)

still in school
Jul 13, 2010, 05:18 PM
I've been waiting for the past few months and I guess we won't see an update anytime soon. I'll stick to my Rev C. Anyone else have a problem with the track button scratching the top screen bezel? If so, what did you do?

Monolythix
Jul 13, 2010, 05:43 PM
Today, I was at an Apple store. I asked one of the employees if MBA would be discontinued. He said yes, it will be. I am not sure if he really knew something or just said it but that's what he said (unfortunately!).

Don't worry, Apple store employees don't know anything more than the rest of us. I've been working at an Apple store for one year and I was hoping to receive some inside info every now and then, but alas. Store employees generally tend to pretend that they know more than us, it's just the consequence of being blessed with the honor to sell products of a brand that everybody loves and people want to know about :)
Employees who don't recommend he Air even when it's obvious that you want one should be fired. They didn't learn anything from Apple's marvelous professionals trainings.

Scottsdale
Jul 13, 2010, 10:43 PM
Today was the first Tuesday I have completely forgotten about checking Apple.com as soon as I woke up for an MBA update. I have truly GIVEN UP on an MBA update anytime soon. Finally, it's off my mind. Thank GOD. I am in it for the long haul. I would love to see an MBA update soon, but I think October is probably best case scenario beyond C2D... and January is probably a lot more realistic.

What will Apple do? Wait for next generation Intel CPUs with double GMA performance? Move to AMD and ATI for a better all around solution for the 13" Mac notebook users? Actually use C2D again? EOL the MBA? Or even wait another year or more before introducing its own chip in a Mac?

I don't even know anymore. I have officially not put Windows 7 on my new MBA. I am leaving it off, as I have no "need" to run Windows 7 on it for work purposes. I am using my new Mac mini Server for Windows 7. The new MBA is really serving all my needs great, but I will buy a new one the day Apple updates the MBA. Oh, and I am trying to sell my original 2.13 GHz MBA with 128 GB SSD. It's in the marketplace if anyone is interested.

C-Rad
Jul 13, 2010, 11:25 PM
Oh, and I am trying to sell my original 2.13 GHz MBA with 128 GB SSD. It's in the marketplace if anyone is interested.

I'm interested!

Even after what I wrote yesterday about choosing the MBA I had people say not to buy it because it's a crippled CPU and you're wasting your money etcetcetc... I'm still unsure what to get and I've now been looking at the 15" MBP which would be okay... although very heavy for my liking I would be able to deal with it.

How much are you looking to sell it for? I'm based in Brisbane but i'll be in LA next friday if you happen to live in LA!

soph
Jul 14, 2010, 02:52 AM
Today was the first Tuesday I have completely forgotten about checking Apple.com as soon as I woke up for an MBA update. I have truly GIVEN UP on an MBA update anytime soon.

Sounds familiar :) . Yesterday I finally ordered my MBA.
I'm hypnotising myself to not get terribly furious should an update happen next week, but somehow I feel it won't be necessary.

Radarflem
Jul 14, 2010, 08:28 AM
You can all relax now. I have personally assured an MBA update in the next two weeks by ordering a refurbished 2.13 GHz, 128 GB SSD Rev. C edition. :)

celo48
Jul 28, 2010, 12:21 PM
I will wait. In the meantime, I will be using my 4 year old Macbook :)

OK. I lied. I was hoping a sooner MacAir update but what made me buy the MBP 13.3" was the Bing CB ending on July 30th. I could not resist not buying the MBP for $975. I will probably buy the MacAir when the new one is out but I need to convince my wife to use my used MBP :) My mom loves my 4 year old Macbook :)