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flatfoot
Jun 14, 2010, 02:51 PM
Hi there,

sorry for the cryptic thread title, didn't know how to describe this in a few words:

Some time ago I read somewhere here that RocketRAID cards alter drives attached to them in a way that makes the drives not recogniseable to other SATA chipsets/ports. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find that thread again.
Is that (still) true?

I'm asking because I'm planning on some drive juggling in the near future and don't want to be negatively surprised.



nanofrog
Jun 14, 2010, 03:37 PM
Hi there,

sorry for the cryptic thread title, didn't know how to describe this in a few words:

Some time ago I read somewhere here that RocketRAID cards alter drives attached to them in a way that makes the drives not recogniseable to other SATA chipsets/ports. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find that thread again.
Is that (still) true?

I'm asking because I'm planning on some drive juggling in the near future and don't want to be negatively surprised.
The data certainly won't make it in a simple swap, as the RR2314 is a separate controller.

As per the drives not being unusable when moved back to the logic board's ICH, I'm not sure what you're referring to, as the drives themselves should still function.

What is different, is how the RR2314 deals with data (the MBR exists, but Apple's file system runs of of it's own GUID, and the offsets are different than that used in Windows). So it'd need to be reformatted to re-create the GUID system that's implemented with HSF/+.

flatfoot
Jun 15, 2010, 12:26 AM
The data certainly won't make it in a simple swap, as the RR2314 is a separate controller.

As per the drives not being unusable when moved back to the logic board's ICH, I'm not sure what you're referring to, as the drives themselves should still function.

What is different, is how the RR2314 deals with data (the MBR exists, but Apple's file system runs of of it's own GUID, and the offsets are different than that used in Windows). So it'd need to be reformatted to re-create the GUID system that's implemented with HSF/+.

Thanks for the reply!
Yeah, I was going to reformat anyway. Hm, I'm not sure what I'm referring to either ;). It was just somewhere in the back of my mind that RocketRAID cards somehow alter the firmware of the drives or something like that.
But if that's not the case, it's just the better. :)

nanofrog
Jun 15, 2010, 12:31 AM
Thanks for the reply!
Yeah, I was going to reformat anyway. Hm, I'm not sure what I'm referring to either ;). It was just somewhere in the back of my mind that RocketRAID cards somehow alter the firmware of the drives or something like that.
But if that's not the case, it's just the better. :)
There's no need for a card to change the drive's firmware at all. If that is the case, the RR2314 is a bigger peice of junk than I thought (I don't like FakeRAID controllers that much).

flatfoot
Jun 15, 2010, 12:42 AM
There's no need for a card to change the drive's firmware at all. If that is the case, the RR2314 is a bigger peice of junk than I thought (I don't like FakeRAID controllers that much).

I know you don't. :)
And I don't feel too good about using its own "RAID functionality" either. I use Disk Utility to set up my external RAID(s).

nanofrog
Jun 15, 2010, 12:50 AM
I know you don't. :)
And I don't feel too good about using its own "RAID functionality" either. I use Disk Utility to set up my external RAID(s).
They're fine for 0/1/10, single disk, or even JBOD, but not parity based arrays. Even then, there's usually more hassles/problems associated vs. a hardware controller. So for critical data, using a FakeRAID controller is just begging for trouble IMO.

Get your disks back on the logic board's ICH, and use Disk Utility to create the JBOD, and run with it.

Good luck, and let me know how it goes. :)

flatfoot
Jun 15, 2010, 02:18 AM
Well, actually this is all about a Hackintosh home server...

This is my current setup:

Mac Pro:
1x Raptor 74GB (ODD port, system)
2x 1TB (data)
2x 2TB (data)

External via RR2314 (TimeMachine):
4x 750GB
1x 500GB
2x 300GB

spare (not in use):
1x 300GB


Setup-to-be:

Hackintosh (i5-750, 8 HD ports and bays):
1x Raptor 74GB (system)
2x 2TB (data)
2x 1TB + 3x 750GB (TimeMachine)

Mac Pro:
3x 300GB RAID0 (system & data)
750GB + 500GB (TimeMachine)

Outsourcing the data (mostly DVB-T recorded, h.264 encoded movies) to the home server (which will be directly connected to our TV) makes me more flexible in the choice of my next desktop system. Might switch back to an iMac since I don't need the raw power my Mac Pro offers and its power consumption isn't really justifiable in my case.

nanofrog
Jun 15, 2010, 03:21 AM
Well, actually this is all about a Hackintosh home server...

This is my current setup:

Mac Pro:
1x Raptor 74GB (ODD port, system)
2x 1TB (data)
2x 2TB (data)

External via RR2314 (TimeMachine):
4x 750GB
1x 500GB
2x 300GB

spare (not in use):
1x 300GB


Setup-to-be:

Hackintosh (i5-750, 8 HD ports and bays):
1x Raptor 74GB (system)
2x 2TB (data)
2x 1TB + 3x 750GB (TimeMachine)

Mac Pro:
3x 300GB RAID0 (system & data)
750GB + 500GB (TimeMachine)

Outsourcing the data (mostly DVB-T recorded, h.264 encoded movies) to the home server (which will be directly connected to our TV) makes me more flexible in the choice of my next desktop system. Might switch back to an iMac since I don't need the raw power my Mac Pro offers and its power consumption isn't really justifiable in my case.
I presume you want to JBOD the multiple disks together that aren't specifically listed as a stripe set in the above configurations.

Assuming throughput above that of a single disk isn't necessary, it's a good way to get a massive amount of storage inexpensively (single disk throughput is definitely fine for h.264). But I'm not sure of anything else you're running (i.e. pro applications).

The RR2314 is suitable for JBOD, and would do fine in the Hackintosh, since there are OS X drivers for it.

flatfoot
Jun 15, 2010, 08:22 AM
I presume you want to JBOD the multiple disks together that aren't specifically listed as a stripe set in the above configurations.

Assuming throughput above that of a single disk isn't necessary, it's a good way to get a massive amount of storage inexpensively (single disk throughput is definitely fine for h.264). But I'm not sure of anything else you're running (i.e. pro applications).

The RR2314 is suitable for JBOD, and would do fine in the Hackintosh, since there are OS X drivers for it.

The 2x 2TB will be RAID0, just as the 2x 1TB and 3x 750GB (these two array concatenated). I'm a bit of a throughput junkie... :)

I definitely need the RR2314 for moving data around in the juggling process. Not sure if I'll keep it afterwards because I won't have immediate use for it. And additional money is always good for a student on a hardware project costing ~€800 in this case, which is a good price for what I get for it but is still quite a bit of money.

If the Hack does all I want it to do properly – e. g. proper auto-boot is crucial to me since I auto-record a lot with EyeTV – I might even swap the Mac Pro with it and put the TimeMachine drives back into my external case.
Selling my Mac Pro would give me between €1,000 and €1,400, according to current eBay prices.
And actually, the Hack would be too powerful and nice a machine to use it as a media server... *thinking...*

Not sure about all that yet. I've been a Mac user for all my computer life and will stick with the OS for sure, but ATM it's a question of money.

nanofrog
Jun 15, 2010, 12:25 PM
... *thinking...*
Nothing wrong with that, and best yet, it's FREE. :D :p

flatfoot
Jun 15, 2010, 12:50 PM
Nothing wrong with that, and best yet, it's FREE. :D :p

Good to know... :) I'll see how the Hack performs in about two to four weeks.

flatfoot
Jun 25, 2010, 01:54 AM
So it's only been 10 days. :)

My Hackintosh is up and running (posting from it right now).
Running stable at 3.2GHz with SpeedStep and TurboBoost enabled.

What I found out (was quite sure of it before) was that with OSX softRAID drives it doesn't matter how you attach them. I reattached the 2x2TB RAID0 from the Hack to the RR2314 in the Mac Pro and it worked perfectly (accessing the data on it).

Thanks a lot for your support, nanofrog!

DoFoT9
Jun 25, 2010, 02:03 AM
lol im sure that you could have gotten away with a C2D + 9800GT for a media server, but thats a killer machine man :D

loving your storage!!

glad its all working.

flatfoot
Jun 25, 2010, 03:30 AM
lol im sure that you could have gotten away with a C2D + 9800GT for a media server, but thats a killer machine man :D

loving your storage!!

glad its all working.

I just wanted a current platform; and if it performs well enough and does everything I want it to do I might even replace the Mac Pro with it.
But I'm rather going to sell the Mac Pro and replace it with a refurbished iMac 27" i5.

DoFoT9
Jun 25, 2010, 03:32 AM
I just wanted a current platform; and if it performs well enough and does everything I want it to do I might even replace the Mac Pro with it.
But I'm rather going to sell the Mac Pro and replace it with a refurbished iMac 27" i5.

can i ask why you didnt go with an i3 chip? they OC quite well :)

i can vouch for the i7 iMac - its pretty awsome :D screen quality and clarity is awsome! too bad there is no expansion - but you clearly dot need that.

flatfoot
Jun 25, 2010, 04:01 AM
can i ask why you didnt go with an i3 chip? they OC quite well :)

i can vouch for the i7 iMac - its pretty awsome :D screen quality and clarity is awsome! too bad there is no expansion - but you clearly dot need that.

Yup, one reason for me to set up the server was to free myself from the need of the Mac Pros internal drive bays. An eSATA box was not an option (already got a self-made one) since the iMacs don't have eSATA and I wanted to be free to choose my next Mac. I didn't want a NAS box either so I added a bit on the price for one of those and built the Hack.

I thought about the i3, too, but in addition to it being a media server I want the i5 to do encoding tasks etc.

Yeah, the i7 iMac is pretty awesome but even refurbished a few hundred bucks over my budget. If the Mac Pro sells well, I'll have to add ~€200 to get the i5 iMac refurb, which is already a tad more than I can actually afford.

EDIT: Just got a kernel panic on the Hack for no apparent reason; back at stock 2.67GHz and 1333 RAM now, though the RAM is actually 1600 graded but I can't seem to set the RAM multiplier higher than 10x. :(

DoFoT9
Jun 25, 2010, 04:11 AM
I thought about the i3, too, but in addition to it being a media server I want the i5 to do encoding tasks etc.

Yeah, the i7 iMac is pretty awesome but even refurbished a few hundred bucks over my budget. If the Mac Pro sells well, I'll have to add ~200 to get the i5 iMac refurb, which is already a tad more than I can actually afford.
ahh encoding, fair call. how are the temps under load @3.2GHz?

the iMac is stunning if its the machine for you - personally its great for me, as i have a hack for storage as well. and i certainly do not need all of the computing power (yet). i plan on grabbing a C2D 27" for an extended screen in a year or so if apple doesnt bring out a 27" Cinema Display haha.

EDIT: Just got a kernel panic on the Hack for no apparent reason; back at stock 2.67GHz and 1333 RAM now, though the RAM is actually 1600 graded but I can't seem to set the RAM multiplier higher than 10x. :(

odd. did you check the logs?

flatfoot
Jun 25, 2010, 04:39 AM
I didn't check it but had a look now. (Haven't ever done that... :o)

The line
25.06.10 08:55:46 com.apple.launchd[1] *** launchd[1] has started up. ***
indicates boot, right?

If so, that's the boot after the kernel panic and before that there's only a host of logs by GraphicConverter, which I used to convert the screenshot I posted above to JPEG. There are no error messages.
Maybe GraphicConverter didn't like the fact that I launched it from my data drive instead of the boot drive. Is that possible? Don't want to try it ATM since the TimeMachine Backup (3+ TB) is only half-way done.

DoFoT9
Jun 25, 2010, 04:46 AM
I didn't check it but had a look now. (Haven't ever done that... :o)

The line
25.06.10 08:55:46 com.apple.launchd[1] *** launchd[1] has started up. ***
indicates boot, right?
thats not enough information to tell me what it is unfortunately :(

If so, that's the boot after the kernel panic and before that there's only a host of logs by GraphicConverter, which I used to convert the screenshot I posted above to JPEG. There are no error messages.
Maybe GraphicConverter didn't like the fact that I launched it from my data drive instead of the boot drive. Is that possible? Don't want to try it ATM since the TimeMachine Backup (3+ TB) is only half-way done.
there should be ZERO problems running from a networked drive - unless your vanilla (i assume) install isnt completely optimised for everything. on my macs i have never had problems running programs over the network.

flatfoot
Jun 25, 2010, 05:21 AM
thats not enough information to tell me what it is unfortunately :(

OK, but looking at the time stamps, this must be the boot after the kernel panic.

there should be ZERO problems running from a networked drive - unless your vanilla (i assume) install isnt completely optimized for everything. on my macs i have never had problems running programs over the network.

It's not even a network drive; in the Hack, I have a 74GB Raptor for boot plus a 2x2TB RAID0 for data, on which there is the backup data of my Mac Pro.
GraphicConverter started from that drive and, according to the logs, copied a host of Automator actions into my user library folder. Then the machine crashed.
That can't be the reason, your're right; but I can't find anything else.

Anyway, I'll have it run at stock speed, install everything properly and if I feel like it I'll overclock it again later. I just feel safer for now at stock.

DoFoT9
Jun 25, 2010, 05:29 AM
OK, but looking at the time stamps, this must be the boot after the kernel panic.

It's not even a network drive; in the Hack, I have a 74GB Raptor for boot plus a 2x2TB RAID0 for data, on which there is the backup data of my Mac Pro.
GraphicConverter started from that drive and, according to the logs, copied a host of Automator actions into my user library folder. Then the machine crashed.
That can't be the reason, your're right; but I can't find anything else.

Anyway, I'll have it run at stock speed, install everything properly and if I feel like it I'll overclock it again later. I just feel safer for now at stock.

oh not a network drive - mybad! but yea it should be fine!! what if you try copying the program onto your main drive - worth a shot, when your backup finishes of course ;) maybe it was a coincidence? i have no idea :(

stock speed does make you feel safer :) i know the feeling!

flatfoot
Jun 25, 2010, 05:55 AM
Thanks a lot for your ideas!

I'll look into the issue again when I'm done setting up everything.

DoFoT9
Jun 25, 2010, 05:56 AM
Thanks a lot for your ideas!

I'll look into the issue again when I'm done setting up everything.

no problems! i hope it doesnt come back at all! that is one of my pet peeves about hackintoshs - you always have the risk of something not working completely :(


goodluck!