BAR win Button Battle

[iGav]

ooooooooooooh.... this could be interesting, Button has already said he won't drive for BAR Honda next season regardless of what happens, and as such he may be stripped of his Superlicence by the FIA forcing him out of F1!!

Williams has already said he won't contest the outcome, and he's known to be tight when it comes to his drivers... so it's unlikely he'll buy out BAR to gain his services!!

So then... the way I see it, it leaves a few possibles, Button refuses to drive (BAR can't make him) and takes voluntary 'Gardening' leave for a season until he can join Williams for 2006!! The FIA strip him of his Superlicense and force him to sit out 2005 and possibly longer!! :eek: or he just swallows his pride and drives a BAR Honda next year!!

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=31405

Thoughts?

[edesignuk]

Thoughts?I'm really surprised, and Button is in the **** :eek:

[andym172]

I think there are quite a few more twists and turns yet to come on this one.

Dave Richards is an extremely shrewd operator. He may be annoyingly smarmy, but I like the guy and reckon he'll get what he wants. Whether he wants Button to drive for BAR next year, or has somebody else up his sleeve and wants compensation off Williams I do not know.

What is for sure is that Ecclestone would not want Button to take any time out of the sport. Lets say Coulthard doesn't find a seat (he'll be smiling at todays decision :)), Button is our only real hope of any success in F1. Given that there MAY not be a British GP in 2005, I can't see Ecclestone wanting to again frustrate one of his/F1's largest markets any more. Therefore I reckon he'll move hell and earth to make sure Jenson is in F1 next year.

My prediction is that there will be a British GP and that Jenson will still be at BAR. Stranger things have happened...

[iGav]

I'm really surprised, and Button is in the **** :eek:

I'm surprised that Button decided to leave in the first place, BAR Honda have been clearly the 2nd best team all season, and have shown genuine pace at pretty much all of the races.

I know he said that he believes that Williams offers him the best chance of winning the title, but I don't think that will happen next season when I still expect the BAR Honda to have the legs of the Williams.

Also with Honda expecting to break the 1000bhp barrier next year... and we all know that when Honda does come to play in F1 they don't f**k about, they win multiple championships (think 1986-1991) and in Dave Richards they have a team Principal who knows how to win (think Prodrive and the Works Subaru WRC Team) that staying at BAR Honda for 2005 offers him a better chance for challenging for race wins.

It's amusing to think though that all the teams and drivers seem to totally ignore the one thing that makes Ferrari and Schumacher so dominant... loyalty and stability.

[evoluzione]

It's amusing to think though that all the teams and drivers seem to totally ignore the one thing that makes Ferrari and Schumacher so dominant... loyalty and stability.


um, isn't that two things mate? ;) :p

[Counterfit]

um, isn't that two things mate? ;) :p Indeed it is :p

Anyways, this bodes well for DC.

[JFreak]

the real question is: what will mika do :)

[AmigoMac]

the real question is: what will mika do :)

Stay at home and watch TV ;) Terve!

[iGav]

um, isn't that two things mate? ;) :p

whoopsie daisey... hahahahahahaha... :p

looks like Button is going to drive for BAR Honda next year.

[virividox]

hes being a baby!!!

[iGav]

the real question is: what will mika do :)

He'll likely go to DTM, he tested a Merc DTM car last week. He also recently said (after the DTM test last week) that he will never drive at F1 level again.

After the spate of high speed accidents (Schumacher Jr, and big testing accidents) this season has just reinforced his opinion that the risks involved are too great.

He's got nothing to prove... only everything to lose by coming back to F1, if he races in DTM though that'd be cool... I'm really getting into DTM... quality racing series! :)

[JFreak]

never say never - remember, prost was not supposed to come back either, but the possibility of beating senna once more forced him to come back ;)

[iGav]

never say never - remember, prost was not supposed to come back either, but the possibility of beating senna once more forced him to come back ;)

Never say never indeed... :)

But Prost came back in a car that was atleast 2 seconds a lap quicker than any other car, had won the Championship in record time the year before and even then he admitted he struggled and lacked motivation. Mika won't have the option to come back into the best car.

Lauda did it too in 1984 to win the WDC... again though it was in clearly the best car.

But never say never indeed... stranger things have happened. ;)

[evoluzione]

i'd like to see mika in a rally car, them fins on ice.... :D

[JFreak]

i'd like to see mika in a rally car, them fins on ice.... :D

you haven't noticed mika drives the lapland rally every year, has driven it forever...

[whooleytoo]

So then... the way I see it, it leaves a few possibles, Button refuses to drive (BAR can't make him) and takes voluntary 'Gardening' leave for a season until he can join Williams for 2006!! The FIA strip him of his Superlicense and force him to sit out 2005 and possibly longer!! :eek: or he just swallows his pride and drives a BAR Honda next year!!
Thoughts?

Probably just means more money for BAR - I doubt they can/should/will try and force Button to drive for them. But if they let him go now, they can squeeze Williams (or whoever) for more money.

[evoluzione]

you haven't noticed mika drives the lapland rally every year, has driven it forever...




oh yeah? haha, i've missed watching rallies on tv since i moved to the US. i've yet to find it on tv, except for about an hour a week when the wrc is on, but even that's on at weird times.

[iGav]

Probably just means more money for BAR - I doubt they can/should/will try and force Button to drive for them. But if they let him go now, they can squeeze Williams (or whoever) for more money.

Button has already confirmed he'll drive for BAR next season... I don't think he could afford to sit a year out on gardening leave, when we've got talents such as Liuzzi and Rossi (possibly) entering in 2006 making seats even more competitive.

I reckon he'll do alright next season at BAR, certainly better than Williams... Honda just seem to be moving into that sweet spot with their engines now, exactly like they did in the mid-late '80's and that's worrying for all the other teams!! Ferrari included!!

i'd like to see mika in a rally car, them fins on ice....

He did drive the McLaren F1 (the proper F1 not the roadcar) in the snow once... crazy finns :p

I still think DTM is the most likely candidate, with WRC on the decline with the possibilty that Ford will pull out next season, and PSA deciding whether it's worth having both Citroen and Peugeot competing against one another... rallying might not be a viable option at all.

I still think F1 is out of the question though... the Williams seat will either go to Pizza Boy or DC, out of those I'd choose the jaw... he's not bad at developing a car, and that's what Williams really needs, they've suffered this year and missed Schu Jr.'s input big time (Montoya is crap at set up and dev) and Pizza Boy isn't a driver who you can rely upon to bring the car home in the points.

We'll have to wait and see though... after silly season this year anything is possible! :p

[whooleytoo]

I reckon he'll do alright next season at BAR, certainly better than Williams... Honda just seem to be moving into that sweet spot with their engines now, exactly like they did in the mid-late '80's and that's worrying for all the other teams!! Ferrari included!!

I didn't know he'd confirmed that he'll drive.

BAR certainly are the better option at the moment - you just have to look at the sudden improvement of Button and Sato to see that - but there is the question of whether BAR can maintain it. Certainly Williams can (and, indeed, Honda too) but I'm not sure about BAR as a team.

After all, look at my (beloved) Jordan in '99, and look at them now!

[iGav]

I didn't know he'd confirmed that he'll drive.

BAR certainly are the better option at the moment - you just have to look at the sudden improvement of Button and Sato to see that - but there is the question of whether BAR can maintain it. Certainly Williams can (and, indeed, Honda too) but I'm not sure about BAR as a team.

After all, look at my (beloved) Jordan in '99, and look at them now!

Yep.. he and Dave Richards have been talking about their relationship and how it's improved etc etc and how they need to focus on next season now.

I think BAR Honda will do well... there are rumours that Honda might be wanting to take over the team from BAT when the tobacco ban comes in, they did consider the option of their own team in 1998 and went so far as to have a car designed and built but in the end decided against it. Now that Toyota has it's own team though, I think a bit of national pride is at stake!

As for BAR, it's easy to forget that it's being run by one of the most successful guys in world motorsport with Prodrive and Subaru WRC, Dave Richards is bang up their with Ron Dennis and Frank Williams, and I think we've seen exactly what he can do in 2 seasons he's run the team since replacing Pollock, I certainly wouldn't rule him out.

As for Jordan... they have suffered, which is a shame because the team has a pedigree going back 2 decades, F1 has just moved to another level and unfortunately Jordan just haven't moved forward with it.

It's puzzling because you've just got to see what Sauber are doing to prove that you don't need to be manufacturer backed to be competitive.

[whooleytoo]

Yep.. he and Dave Richards have been talking about their relationship and how it's improved etc etc and how they need to focus on next season now.


Still, I can't help wondering how team morale is going to work out. Would you bust a gut to help a guy who was doing his best to leave the team?


I think BAR Honda will do well... there are rumours that Honda might be wanting to take over the team from BAT when the tobacco ban comes in, they did consider the option of their own team in 1998 and went so far as to have a car designed and built but in the end decided against it. Now that Toyota has it's own team though, I think a bit of national pride is at stake!


Certainly Honda have the credentials, but if they take over, it's not really BAR any more is it? I'm sure if Button was confident of them taking over, he'd be stuck to that seat like.... I dunno, something sticky?


As for BAR, it's easy to forget that it's being run by one of the most successful guys in world motorsport with Prodrive and Subaru WRC, Dave Richards is bang up their with Ron Dennis and Frank Williams, and I think we've seen exactly what he can do in 2 seasons he's run the team since replacing Pollock, I certainly wouldn't rule him out.


True. Though he has the advantage over some other teams in having a huge budget and one of the best engine manufacturers on board.


As for Jordan... they have suffered, which is a shame because the team has a pedigree going back 2 decades, F1 has just moved to another level and unfortunately Jordan just haven't moved forward with it.

It's puzzling because you've just got to see what Sauber are doing to prove that you don't need to be manufacturer backed to be competitive.

I wonder if Eddie's personality is a part of this. Jordan have had some of the top backroom talent (Gascoigne, Michaels etc.) but lost them all. It's astonishing how quickly they went back from the good years '97 to '99.

[MOFS]

Yep.. he and Dave Richards have been talking about their relationship and how it's improved etc etc and how they need to focus on next season now.

I think BAR Honda will do well... there are rumours that Honda might be wanting to take over the team from BAT when the tobacco ban comes in, they did consider the option of their own team in 1998 and went so far as to have a car designed and built but in the end decided against it. Now that Toyota has it's own team though, I think a bit of national pride is at stake!

As for BAR, it's easy to forget that it's being run by one of the most successful guys in world motorsport with Prodrive and Subaru WRC, Dave Richards is bang up their with Ron Dennis and Frank Williams, and I think we've seen exactly what he can do in 2 seasons he's run the team since replacing Pollock, I certainly wouldn't rule him out.

As for Jordan... they have suffered, which is a shame because the team has a pedigree going back 2 decades, F1 has just moved to another level and unfortunately Jordan just haven't moved forward with it.

It's puzzling because you've just got to see what Sauber are doing to prove that you don't need to be manufacturer backed to be competitive.

I dunno about BAR doing well next year. As much as I loved this year to watch Button come so close to winnging this year (Nurburgring and Monaco anyone), Ralf Schumacher seemed to comfortably outpace him at Suzuka, and we all know Ralf is a bit of a dunderhead compared to his bro'! Plus Buttona and Suzuka really like Suzuka. Ah well, guess we'll see on Sunday...

Btw - who dya think's gonna get the Williams drive for next year? Seems a one year only deal, what with Button seemingly confirmed for 2006. Pizzonia? Coulthard says he should get it. Personally, if I was FW, I'd be wary of a guy that can crash a car on the formation lap!

PS: Don't you think that Ferraris main weapons are loyalty, stability...and nice red cars?! :D

[iGav]

Ralf Schumacher seemed to comfortably outpace him at Suzuka, and we all know Ralf is a bit of a dunderhead compared to his bro'! Plus Buttona and Suzuka really like Suzuka. Ah well, guess we'll see on Sunday...

Suzuka is abit of a Ralf Schumacher track though... they've got history ;)


Btw - who dya think's gonna get the Williams drive for next year? Seems a one year only deal, what with Button seemingly confirmed for 2006. Pizzonia? Coulthard says he should get it. Personally, if I was FW, I'd be wary of a guy that can crash a car on the formation lap!

I'd go with DC... Pizza Boy has a habit of not finishing races.

Thing with DC is he's rumoured to be an excellent development driver, even when Mika was in the team. And that is exactly what Williams needs, 2 drivers that can get points but can also develop the car. Schu Jr. can do this... Montoya can't develop or set the car up, hence why we saw Williams drop right off the pace whilst Schu Jr. was out, and when he gets back in the car it's back near the front of the action again as opposed to being mid-pack like with Montoya/Gene/Pizza Boy.

[iGav]

Still, I can't help wondering how team morale is going to work out. Would you bust a gut to help a guy who was doing his best to leave the team?.

Well they're professionals... it's in both of their interests to do well. If Williams have yet another poor year, and BAR Honda are pushing Ferrari for the title in '05... would Button still want to go with Williams?? I'm not so sure.

If Button has a poor year... will that affect his stock to the teams??


Certainly Honda have the credentials, but if they take over, it's not really BAR any more is it? I'm sure if Button was confident of them taking over, he'd be stuck to that seat like.... I dunno, something sticky?

Well team would essentially still be BAR by everything other than name... just bankrolled by another company, much like how BAR are really Tyrrell!! heheheh

Button said he wanted to go to Williams because he see's that as his best bet for winning the championship, I can understand why... Williams are multiple title winners, but... they've been no where near since they last won it in '97, and if anything seem to be slipping back into the '99-'00 form not a championship challenging one. Not to mention if he would beat Webber?? I'm not so sure that he would.


True. Though he has the advantage over some other teams in having a huge budget and one of the best engine manufacturers on board.

You still have to peform though... Pollock did an amazingly poor job at BAR to the point where he almost bought it crashing down.

But then look at McLaren, Williams and Toyota this season... all have bigger budgets and top manufacturer backing and all have failed miserably to get anywhere near BAR. I think that says alot for Richards abilities as a team principal.


I wonder if Eddie's personality is a part of this. Jordan have had some of the top backroom talent (Gascoigne, Michaels etc.) but lost them all. It's astonishing how quickly they went back from the good years '97 to '99.

It's hard to imagine that at the end of the '90's they came close to winning the championship and now they're fighting Minardi's. Something has gone very wrong somewhere.

Pay-to-Drive drivers is probably a contributing factor as well, picking someone because they bring handy $$$ as opposed to actually being able to drive is hardly the greatest of moves, even though they need the cash... they don't get the feedback and development from an experienced driver to improve their performance and attract more sponsers. Vicious circle.

[russed]

i think it is good that button has to drive at BAR next year. as he has done so well this year i will help BAR to develop futher and possibly create another team that could atleast challange tems next year as they will attract more funding etc so giving better research and such.

also jenson will be able to become a better driver as the team will revolve around him and even though he may get an ego that is bigger than it is already he will be able to get people concentrating on him hopefully creating the next british world champion!

also going to williams would be a bit evil for bar as they have helped him more than williams (apart from giving him his first drive in f1 - which is obv quite important!) they have stuck with him while willams and renault got rid of him when he wasnt doing so great.

also bar appear to be a better team than williams at the moment!

well that is my opinion!

[iGav]

the real question is: what will mika do :)

seems he's now signed up with Mercedes DTM team for 2 million Euro a year...

http://teletekst.nos.nl/gif/609-01.html

[JFreak]

seems he's now signed up with Mercedes DTM team for 2 million Euro a year...

deal isn't closed yet - and, frank williams is said to be still considering hiring mika, as webber doesn't have lots of merits and other alternatives are weak too. of course, mika would also be a risky investment, because he has been off for three seasons...

[iGav]

deal isn't closed yet - and, frank williams is said to be still considering hiring mika, as webber doesn't have lots of merits and other alternatives are weak too. of course, mika would also be a risky investment, because he has been off for three seasons...

yeah... I've just been reading... silly season continues :p

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=31477

I don't think they have to worry about Webber, he's a class act... and has proven that this year by sticking that Jag on the front row never mind getting a Minardi into 5th!!

Unless Williams makes an official announcement before the Webber test (which they're using as a benchmark) I reckon it could go down to a face off between Pizza Boy, DC, Heidfeld and Mika in December. Fastest wins. :D

[JFreak]

yeah... I've just been reading... silly season continues :p

yep, and the rumors go on and on. now the papers write that the last race williams victory pushed the mika-williams negotiations ahead. it is rumoured that frank is offering mika a one-year deal for 9M.

[iGav]

yep, and the rumors go on and on. now the papers write that the last race williams victory pushed the mika-williams negotiations ahead. it is rumoured that frank is offering mika a one-year deal for 9M.

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. I do think it'd be a little risky offering him a race deal without seeing how he copes first though. The cars are probably anywhere between 5 and 6 seconds a lap quicker to when he last drove one, with a huge increase in cornering speeds because of the tyre war, we only have to see how Villeneuve has struggled with both the G forces and his race fitness (even though he's been training flat out during his time out) after missing less then a year, never mind 3 and look at how both Montoya and Kimi couldn't keep their heads up towards the end of Brazilian GP because of the G forces!

It'd be a shame if he does make a comeback only to be a shadow of his former self ('98 and 2000 being his greatest years) only to struggle with his fitness and being beaten by Webber at every race. But if he comes back in that '98 or 2000 form, then we could be in for a ding-dong battle with Webber next season!! :D

[Counterfit]

look at how both Montoya and Kimi couldn't keep their heads up towards the end of Brazilian GP because of the G forces! I thought that was because they go around clockwise at Interlagos, rather than clockwise at almost every other circuit? :confused:

[iGav]

I thought that was because they go around clockwise at Interlagos, rather than clockwise at almost every other circuit? :confused:

To a degree it is, my point was that speeds have increased so much that even current drivers are beginning to struggle (others drivers suffered as much at Suzuka) Brazil never was an issue in the past.

Whether the reduction in downforce and increase in tyre durability will reduce cornering speeds significantly is another matter, the FIA expect the teams to lose 25% of the downforce with the new rules, Ross Brawn has already said by the time March comes, Ferrari will have reduced that to 20% and the likely hood is that could be down to 10% within the season.

Jacques has himself admitted that he's far from race fit, even though he's done nothing but work out for the last year and according to pit sources I've read, he's fitter than his WDC year, it's just that he's suffering more because the cars have increased by 3 seconds in the last year alone.

If Williams don't announce the 2nd seat till December, and that driver doesn't start until early Jan when testing kicks off again, that leaves them less than 3 months to get race fit... that is not a long time especially for a driver who has been out for 3 years. Williams cannot afford to have a driver who is off the pace because of fitness for even a few races (look what happened to Renault) after their performance in Brazil, it's just possible that Webber could be fighting for the WDC but for that they need the car to be developed continuously... look how they suffered when Ralf crashed at Indy, the car dropped off to mid pack because Montoya simply cannot develop a car, as soon as Ralf comes back, they gain a 2nd and a Win.

If Mika can come back, as motivated as he was in '98 or 2000 and is instantly on the pace then they should sign him, and pay him whatever he wants that Mika is worth it, make no mistake.

But if it's the demotivated, uncommitted (driving wise) and lackluster Mika of '01 then regardless of whether he's a 2x WDC or not... he doesn't deserve to be in the car.

[MOFS]

To a degree it is, my point was that speeds have increased so much that even current drivers are beginning to struggle (others drivers suffered as much at Suzuka) Brazil never was an issue in the past.

Whether the reduction in downforce and increase in tyre durability will reduce cornering speeds significantly is another matter, the FIA expect the teams to lose 25% of the downforce with the new rules, Ross Brawn has already said by the time March comes, Ferrari will have reduced that to 20% and the likely hood is that could be down to 10% within the season.

Jacques has himself admitted that he's far from race fit, even though he's done nothing but work out for the last year and according to pit sources I've read, he's fitter than his WDC year, it's just that he's suffering more because the cars have increased by 3 seconds in the last year alone.

If Williams don't announce the 2nd seat till December, and that driver doesn't start until early Jan when testing kicks off again, that leaves them less than 3 months to get race fit... that is not a long time especially for a driver who has been out for 3 years. Williams cannot afford to have a driver who is off the pace because of fitness for even a few races (look what happened to Renault) after their performance in Brazil, it's just possible that Webber could be fighting for the WDC but for that they need the car to be developed continuously... look how they suffered when Ralf crashed at Indy, the car dropped off to mid pack because Montoya simply cannot develop a car, as soon as Ralf comes back, they gain a 2nd and a Win.

If Mika can come back, as motivated as he was in '98 or 2000 and is instantly on the pace then they should sign him, and pay him whatever he wants that Mika is worth it, make no mistake.

But if it's the demotivated, uncommitted (driving wise) and lackluster Mika of '01 then regardless of whether he's a 2x WDC or not... he doesn't deserve to be in the car.

Now that Mika's ruled himself out, the list has been "narrowed" to:

Antonio Pizzonia
David Coulthard (urrgh)
Anthony Davidson
Nick Heidfield

bLink and you'll miss it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/3993941.stm)

Pizzonia - fast, erratic, got beaten by Webber at Jaguar comprehensively
Coulthard - fast, good tester, poor qualifier, whinges a lot and will want more than one year
Davidson - fast, good tester (cf BAR) Frank Williams likes him. Only raced 2 races
Heidfield - fast, consistent, thought to be a bit boring (but highly talented - won F3 comprehensively), and, perhaps importantly, GERMAN!

Personally, if I was FW, I'd go for Anthony Davidson. He's had race experience AND has proved exceedingly impressive and important testing for BAR. I also think they could send him back to BAR if (as I have read in various newpapers) Jenson Button joins Williams in 2006.

[iGav]

Now that Mika's ruled himself out, the list has been "narrowed" to:

Antonio Pizzonia
David Coulthard (urrgh)
Anthony Davidson
Nick Heidfield

bLink and you'll miss it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/3993941.stm)

Pizzonia - fast, erratic, got beaten by Webber at Jaguar comprehensively
Coulthard - fast, good tester, poor qualifier, whinges a lot and will want more than one year
Davidson - fast, good tester (cf BAR) Frank Williams likes him. Only raced 2 races
Heidfield - fast, consistent, thought to be a bit boring (but highly talented - won F3 comprehensively), and, perhaps importantly, GERMAN!

Personally, if I was FW, I'd go for Anthony Davidson. He's had race experience AND has proved exceedingly impressive and important testing for BAR. I also think they could send him back to BAR if (as I have read in various newpapers) Jenson Button joins Williams in 2006.

I don't think Pizzonia has it at all, he didn't impress when he filled in for Schu Jr. and even with the likes of Montoya, Gene and Pizzonia Williams BMW really missed Ralf. And Webber destroyed him in half a season at Jaguar.

Coulthard, well what can you say he's been in a top seat all his career and has yet to beat his teammate comprehensively (except a demotivated Mika in '01 and a rookie Kimi in 02). Thing is he can develop a car, from what I've read he was much better at than then Mika. Williams NEEDS a driver that can provenly develop the car as they can't afford another season like '04 when they lose one driver and the development suffers.

Davidson, his 2 races were appalling. Yet in Friday testing this year he's showed true speed, the difficult part to draw from that is what was Honda fitting in the back?? (they frequently ran dev engines) what new driver aids did he have?? (he was running the torque splitter device for many practice sessions). The biggest question is can he actually race??

Heidfeld, he's abit of a dark horse isn't he... back in his pre F1 days, he had a rep for being awesomely fast and when he and Kimi were together at Sauber he oudrove Kimi pretty much all season... so that says something. Seems to have fallen into the Fisi trap of being totally ignored by team managers.

For me there's only 2 in it. DC and Heidfeld. DC is a guaranteed points finisher and one of the best developers, Heidfeld could really push Webber and maybe exceed him, but his development capabilities are abit of an unknown.

Personally I think DC will get it... but I'd like to see Heidfeld get it, he's got something to prove. The other 2, one has failed on numorous occasions and the other has almost zero race experience.

[JFreak]

Coulthard, well Thing is he can develop a car, from what I've read he was much better at than then Mika.

not true, but this is of course my biased opinion as a finn.

when mika and dc were both doing tests, they always gave the opposite feedback. that's because dc likes an understeering car that lets him play it safe, and mika (as all great drivers such as kimi, senna, lauda and schumi just to mention few) likes a bit oversteering one that you can "drive".

when dc was having more testing responsibility (mika was recovering from the 1995 accident), mika was struggling with the car balance and dc was beating him consistently. when mika took over in 1997, he got what he wanted and there you go, you know the story ;) then, after 2000 season, mika took it little too easy and dc got to develop the car to his liking, resulting an understeering car that mika & kimi were not able to push it to the limit in 2001/2002.

you know i'm right ;) kimi proved it, as the car now oversteers and dc is a second slower per lap.

[iGav]

when mika and dc were both doing tests, they always gave the opposite feedback. that's because dc likes an understeering car that lets him play it safe, and mika (as all great drivers such as kimi, senna, lauda and schumi just to mention few) likes a bit oversteering one that you can "drive".

when dc was having more testing responsibility (mika was recovering from the 1995 accident), mika was struggling with the car balance and dc was beating him consistently. when mika took over in 1997, he got what he wanted and there you go, you know the story then, after 2000 season, mika took it little too easy and dc got to develop the car to his liking, resulting an understeering car that mika & kimi were not able to push it to the limit in 2001/2002.


DC goes for a more neutral set up, as opposed to understeer, no F1 driver likes understeer it's just that certain drivers are more capable of driving through an edgy and oversteer prone car and can better deal with those characteristics, Gilles, Schu, Senna, Montoya, Kimi and to a degree Mika... DC isn't one of them, he prefers a more balanced car and there's nothing wrong with that... look at Prost ;)

It's interesting that McLaren were way off the pace (post Senna that is) before DC joined isn't it... ;) yet within 1 season they're competitive and winning races, yet the prior 3 years with Mika they were no where.... doesn't say much for Mika's development skills does it.

Funny you bring up 1997 (after all Mika did develop the car the way "he wanted it" in your words). Interestingly in '97 DC would've won 3x as many races as Mika, had he not been ordered by Ron Dennis to let Mika win one. ;) And who knows what would've happened to DC's motivation (look what 2 wins in a row did for Mika) had he been allowed to win the 1st race of '98 rather than hand Mika yet another win, would he have been on the same high as Mika was? rather than being understandably demotivated by having to give away 2 wins in 2 races?? it's all gravy though isn't it... could've, should've.. etc etc.

2001 had nothing to do with the car though, it was competitive with the Ferrari... Mika had just lost his bottle. In '02 DC outdrove Kimi (you can't blame it on the car handling, a 'Great' driver will always be able to drive to the limit whatever you give him, think Senna, Schu and Gilles ;)).

Anyway... we all know that Mika on his day was a better race driver than DC, and anyone would be crazy to choose DC of any year over Mika of 2000, but from what I remember of that era and what I read, DC was, is and remains a better development driver and that is what Williams BMW really needs right now.

The only other viable choice is Heidfeld, who was better than Kimi when they raced together at Sauber... ;)