Do I sense a major price drop on the Cinema 20"?

[madoka]

Given that the new Dell 20" widescreen is about to come out at $800, do you guys think that Apple is either going to drop the price several hundred to stay competitive or just get slaughtered in the marketplace? I would love to have a matching Apple display, but a $500 surcharge for their logo seems too much!

Here is the link:

http://www.chait.net/index.php?p=504

And the relevant info:

The new UltraSharp 2005FPW is a departure from previous Dell widescreen LCDs, which were generally integrated TV models, and going directly after the competition like Apple’s 20″ Cinema Display panel. Of course, at a pricepoint of $799, the Dell 2005FPW could take a chunk out of Apple’s market –since the newest version of the Apple 20″ display prices out at $1299. The difference between the displays is small, and likely has more to do with panel technologies and pricing drops than anything else. We’ve previously reviewed the older Apple 20″ Cinema Display, and we love it, but we’re open to seeing some real price-competition.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Given that the new Dell 20" widescreen is about to come out at $800, do you guys think that Apple is either going to drop the price several hundred to stay competitive or just get slaughtered in the marketplace? I would love to have a matching Apple display, but a $500 surcharge for their logo seems too much!

Here is the link:

http://www.chait.net/index.php?p=504

And the relevant info:

The new UltraSharp 2005FPW is a departure from previous Dell widescreen LCDs, which were generally integrated TV models, and going directly after the competition like Apple’s 20? Cinema Display panel. Of course, at a pricepoint of $799, the Dell 2005FPW could take a chunk out of Apple’s market –since the newest version of the Apple 20? display prices out at $1299. The difference between the displays is small, and likely has more to do with panel technologies and pricing drops than anything else. We’ve previously reviewed the older Apple 20? Cinema Display, and we love it, but we’re open to seeing some real price-competition.

Interesting that it pivots too. Seems very appealing.

[risc]

That's one horrible looking monitor! I have a 20" Apple AL ACD and I'd rather pay the extra money and have something that looks as good as my Power Mac G5. Thanks but no thanks. I'll stick to Apple.

[Jaz]

I doubt it, Apple don't compete on price for any item that could be a Pro one.

LCD prices have fallen but have you ever seen Apple react to price cut by Dell? I haven't and I've been buying Apple for a long time.

Maybe if Lacie or Formac cut prices deeply on there Pro LCD's then Apple would respond.

[zelmo]

That Dell is one ugly monitor, but for $500 I could remember that I spend most of my time looking at the image being displayed, not the casing itself.

I could see this pushing Apple's price to $999, though. Just wishful thinking?

[Jigglelicious]

As "horrible" as the Dell screen looks (note that the speakers are removable), I don't think most people are willing to spend the extra $500 for a screen with the same specs and slightly better aesthetics. Apple really needs to get the 20" model under the $1k mark.

[combatcolin]

Apple will have to drop their prices, the new Cinema Displays were design from the go to COMPETE in the pc market.

A few hundred £££ off each model would be very nice.

[Mr. Anderson]

I'd love to see the Apple LCDs come down in price a bit. And for $800 a piece you could get 2 for almost the price of a 23" Apple LCD.....That's really nice :D

D

[combatcolin]

Agree on the looks, not nice.

And no FW!!

[Jigglelicious]

Also, don't forget that the $800 price is before Dell's usual crazy coupons. I'm betting before long you will be able to pick up one of these for ~$600. Now THAT would be a steal, and something Apple would find hard to compete with. Hell, you'd be able to buy 2 of them for the price of one 20" Cinema display! Ugly or not, such logic is hard to argue against.

[SilentPanda]

Hmmmm... I'm very much looking into getting a 20" screen. Right now I have an iBook G4 and a Windows PC. I was going to get a 20" cinema display but can't hook my iBook up to it (cheaply anyway) due to lack of DVI on the iBook and lack of VGA on the Cinema Display. Although I would feel a little dirty having a Dell logo on my desk. But that's what sticky notes are for... I'll have to keep this in the back of my mind...

[electric]

I have been looking for a less expensive flat panel, I was going to go with a sony 20" but now that this wide screen has come out I will need to re decide. It's the 3 year warranty that sells me on it. I have had a string of bad apples lately and if I bought an Apple display I would need to get Apple care and that would increase the price.
I like the Apple display but feel that it needs to have a better warranty for the grip of money they want.

[madoka]

Dell's current 20" monitor, the 2001 FP, is currently selling for $600 shipped. People are estimating it will hit $500 before the year is done. I have one hooked up to my QS G4 (as well as a PC, a Gamecube and a DVD player) and I must say that it rocks. 16x12, DVI, VGA, S-video, and composite inputs with 16ms response time. No way is the 20" Cinema worth more than 2 of them! Personally I do think Apple has to drop the price at least another $300-$400 to be even in the same ballpark. I mean the Apple logo and nice looks can only go so far.

[Abulia]

That's one horrible looking monitor! Thanks but no thanks. I'll stick to Apple.I presume people are objecting to the speaker bar on the underside when they call the unit "ugly." If you read the press release, said bar is removable. (You read the release, right?) Slim design and not ugly in my opinion.

Unit also rotates for portrait viewing, something the Apple doesn't do. Dell has a better contrast ratio, same response time, and four USB ports to Apple's two. (Apple has two Firewire but I'd rather have USB.) The Dell also has S-video inputs and a picture-in-picture mode to display the various inputs. Apple...not so much.

So the Apple has fewer features (3) and costs nearly twice as much.

But it does have that aluminum finish. :rolleyes:

Yea, I think I know what monitor will be on my XMas list! (I also get 10% off Dell products from my company, not to mention the crazy deals Dell is always offering.)

Easy. Call.

[SilentPanda]

A lot more info on the monitor here:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2005FPW/English/index.htm

[gekko513]

It's not pretty ... but the Apple Display is not worth 63% more, especially since the specs on the Dell matches or are better than the Apple display.

Apple
Contrast 400:1
Brightness 250cd/m2
Response 16ms
Viewing angle 170 degrees

Dell
Contrast 600:1
Brightness 300cd/m2
Response 16ms (12ms)
Viewing angle +/-90 degrees ??

I'm not sure what the +/-90 degrees means. There are also the issues of color balance and even illumination which are difficult to get just be the specs, but they can't be so much worse on the Dell screen that it's worth the price difference, can they?

Anyway, the LCD panel manufacturers have reduced their prices lately according to news sites, so it would be strange if Apple isn't able to reduce prices as well.

[Muskie]

It's not pretty ... but the Apple Display is not worth 63% more, especially since the specs on the Dell matches or are better than the Apple display.

Apple
Contrast 400:1
Brightness 250cd/m2
Response 16ms
Viewing angle 170 degrees

Dell
Contrast 600:1
Brightness 300cd/m2
Response 16ms (12ms)
Viewing angle +/-90 degrees ??

I'm not sure what the +/-90 degrees means. There are also the issues of color balance and even illumination which are difficult to get just be the specs, but they can't be so much worse on the Dell screen that it's worth the price difference, can they?

Anyway, the LCD panel manufacturers have reduced their prices lately according to news sites, so it would be strange if Apple isn't able to reduce prices as well.

I would assume the +/- 90º means its only got a 90º viewing angle to either direction, but I could be totally off.

[Rower_CPU]

We recently got 17" Dell flat panel and it's a decent quality display.

I'd definitely consider getting one of these.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Since the Dell allows for pivoting, is that supported natively in PB's and PM's?

[edesignuk]

This new Dell has DVI, VGA, Analogue, and S-Video inputs, is a lot cheaper, and IMO hardly looks ugly (what's ugly about a slim, black bezel?).

The fact that Apple displays only have 1 DVI port and nothing else is a huge turn off for me, let alone the price! :eek:

[SilentPanda]

Well I have a notion I'm going to be buying one of these next week... unless somebody can recommend something better. With this 20 incher I can hook up both my iBook G4 (via VGA) and my Windows PC (via DVI) and once I get my PowerMac G5 I can ditch my PC and hook the G5 up to it instead. In my opinion it's not any worse than the Apple Cinema display and actually has more features. Some electrical tape over the Dell logo and it's perfect! (My friends would never let it down that I had a Dell monitor!)

Can somebody think of a better bang fer yer buck to convince me otherwise?

So if I order it I'll post pics and such once I do. But I'm pretty close to positive I'll be doing as such. Merry Christmas to me right? :)

[JFreak]

i've been waiting for PC manufacturers to introduce widescreen monitors for a long time. so far apple has not even had competition so the prices have been very high. now that they do and probably will have more in the (hopefully near) future, they will have to adjust their price points.

apple displays are THE most stylish ever, but i'd still buy a brandX 20" widescreen were it available for 500€ in comparison to apple's which costs twice as much.

[Little Endian]

Apple's 20 inch Cinema Display has been overpriced for awhile and strangely so considering it is the lowest offering from Apple. In Contrast the 23 inch display is priced more attractively than most of the competition and the 30 inch simply has none. However at the 20 inch market almost all Manufacturers are selling 1600x1200LCD displays with equal or better specs than Apple for well under $1000 some even Under $800!! Sure they may not be Widescreen but really it's not the shape of the LCD that determines price but the Resolution/brightness and Size of the Panel. Apple will find it hard now to justify a $500 premium with this new WIDESCREEN Dell that matches and surpasses Apple's Cinema Display in specs. This Dell is probably only the first of Widescreen Displays that will be coming out from varying manufactures at varying resolutions and sizes.

Sure I'm willing to pay a premium for Apple and I justly believe they should charge more but spending an extra $500 is insane. Apple Needs to drop the price to $999 for the 20inch Cinema Display that would be great!! If not that then at least a $100-$200 price drop within a couple of months. If Apple does not Drop Prices of the 20 inch LCD I could imagine as much as 1/3 of new PowerMac buyers who are looking for a Display will look elsewhere.

This is what I'm planning to get for my New PowerMac G5

http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=solutions_displays_gallery2010_01

Reality Check for Apple:

http://shop.monitorsdirect.com/searchresults.asp?dept_id=13&seo=20%20-%20%20inch%20LCD

For Apple's 20 inch Cinema Display we pay 40-70% more than the competition!!!!

http://shop.monitorsdirect.com/searchresults.asp?dept_id=17&seo=21%20+%20inch%20LCD

The 23inch Apple Cinema Display competes well though as there are only a coulple of LCDs cheaper and only about $300 cheaper which so we only pay a roughly 10-18% premium compared to the cheapest competitor options. Apple competes best with the 30 inch Cinema Display at 2560x1600 simply because there is no Competition there for $3299

[zoetropeuk]

Show me a Dell monitor that is SWOP certified and I'll buy one, until then I'll stick with Apple Cinema Displays thanks. Just comparing the brightness and contrast is no way to judge the quality of an LCD display.

Apple pays considerably more for their displays and they need to meet a much more stringent quality control process. Dells displays would never meet the specs to gain certification. If colour accuracy is important to your workflow then Dells LCDs aren't even in the ball park.

[Little Endian]

Show me a Dell monitor that is SWOP certified and I'll buy one, until then I'll stick with Apple Cinema Displays thanks. Just comparing the brightness and contrast is no way to judge the quality of an LCD display.

Apple pays considerably more for their displays and they need to meet a much more stringent quality control process. Dells displays would never meet the specs to gain certification. If colour accuracy is important to your workflow then Dells LCDs aren't even in the ball park.

Uh.. Huh... and Apple's Pink tinge problem and Color Calibration Problems go along way to adding merit to the SWOP Certification. I hope you know that almost all Monitor makers including Apple get their LCD Panels from the same companies Primarily Samsung and LG. Sure Apple's Color Accuracy is without a doubt top notch but there are others that have SWOP certification that are priced Cheaper and if you look at Apples own support and Discussion website I think you will find many who are unhappy with the newest 20 and 23 inch Cinema Displays Due to Color Accuracy Problems not to mention others.

[zoetropeuk]

Uh.. Huh... and Apple's Pink tinge problem and Color Calibration Problems go along way to adding merit to the SWOP Certification. I hope you know that almost all Monitor makers including Apple get their LCD Panels from the same companies Primarily Samsung and LG.

They may get them from the same manufacturer but like I said, Apple pays a premium to get the best panels. It is therefore impossible for other companies to get displays that are as good as Apple from the same manufacturer.

Sure Apple's Color Accuracy is without a doubt top notch but there are others that have SWOP certification that are priced Cheaper

Like what:

Eizo Colour Edge 21.3" - $2599
Sony 23" SDM-P232W - $2499

and the only other non Apple certified monitor:

Sony Artisan CRT 21" $1799

up against Apple's 23" at $1999

So what, a few people out of the thousands have had problems with a pink tinge. I've had much worse from LaCie Electron Blue IV screens, try getting a replacement from LaCie. I'd much rather deal with Apple. The Sony LCDs that were delivered to a company I worked for were unusable. 8 of out 10 had a huge area right down the centre of the screen that was completely out of focus. They were replaced quickly but that's not the point, all manufacturers have problems from time to time.

I've had a few problems with my G5 and Apple has fixed them straight away.

[gekko513]

I don't know what SWOP is, but it's good to see that there may be some reason why Apple's displays are more expensive than Dell's after all.

[zelmo]

I don't know what SWOP is, but it's good to see that there may be some reason why Apple's displays are more expensive than Dell's after all.

http://www.swop.org/
SWOP is a color standard for monitors and output devices. It doesn't really come into relevance for the average home user, but is pretty important if you are a photographer or designer, I would think. Nothing worse than spending hours tweaking the color on a photo only to get a proof from your printer with a completely different look than what you see on your monitor. Of course, you still need to keep your monitor calibrated, and make sure your print provider is also using SWOP certified proofs.

[SilentPanda]

So I'm assuming since I"m a home user that uses Safari as my main power app and is color blind doesn't really need to worry about SWOP? ;)

[zoetropeuk]

So I'm assuming since I"m a home user that uses Safari as my main power app and is color blind doesn't really need to worry about SWOP? ;)

That's right. If I was a typical home user I wouldn't but an Apple Display, I wouldn't buy a Dell out of principal but there are plenty to choose from.

Having a SWOP certified set-up allows me to do away with expensive printed proofs. It means I can use the Cinema display as my proofer and know that what I see on-screen is what I'll get when I send it to print.

[Koodauw]

I would love to buy an Apple 20'' display. However, for the price, I can get an 17'' Widescreen, and a G5 for only $100 more! (iMac G5 if you didnt catch that) Not to mention that my PB can't even hook up to the Apple displays. VGA only on the PB's was a bad call.

I'll consider this Dell though. Stnad could be better looking, bu all in all, not bad.

[SilentPanda]

I would love to buy an Apple 20'' display. However, for the price, I can get an 17'' Widescreen, and a G5 for only $100 more! (iMac G5 if you didnt catch that) Not to mention that my PB can't even hook up to the Apple displays. VGA only on the PB's was a bad call.

I'll consider this Dell though. Stnad could be better looking, bu all in all, not bad.

What PB do you have? I thought all the recent PB's were mini-DVI which could let you output to DVI...

[SilentPanda]

Well my 2005FPW is shipping by the 22nd of this month the nice Dell lady says... I'll let you know how it turns out. If you want to order one make sure you know it's part #320-4111. The first few order takers had no idea what it was I wanted to order... and it's almost impossible to find on Dell's web site...

[Chip NoVaMac]

http://www.swop.org/
SWOP is a color standard for monitors and output devices. It doesn't really come into relevance for the average home user, but is pretty important if you are a photographer or designer, I would think. Nothing worse than spending hours tweaking the color on a photo only to get a proof from your printer with a completely different look than what you see on your monitor. Of course, you still need to keep your monitor calibrated, and make sure your print provider is also using SWOP certified proofs.

Raises a question for my use. I have a PB rev. B 12". So far for my uses in DTP and photography the 12" screen is pretty darn close to perfect. I am wondering if this new Dell screen will be close enough except for those that are very demanding.

For example - a printer that I have just begun to use, mentions a "pleasing color" standard. And so far my first 4 color insert proofs matches pretty darn well to the PB 12" screen. If I can expect this out of the Dell, it might make a nice Xmas Gift.

[zelmo]

Raises a question for my use. I have a PB rev. B 12". So far for my uses in DTP and photography the 12" screen is pretty darn close to perfect. I am wondering if this new Dell screen will be close enough except for those that are very demanding.

For example - a printer that I have just begun to use, mentions a "pleasing color" standard. And so far my first 4 color insert proofs matches pretty darn well to the PB 12" screen. If I can expect this out of the Dell, it might make a nice Xmas Gift.

Well, we can use almost any CRT in our prepress area and use calibration tools to match our contract color proof, which meets SWOP standards. I really don't know if there are effective calibration tools for LCD displays, but I'd imagine they are out there. If so, the only question is how often you'd have to calibrate. We do a bi-monthly check on ours, and hardly ever have to make adjustments. Of course, you still need a neutral environment, the proper lighting, and a good eye, too.
I think "pleasing color" means different things to different printers. In our shop, when we describe pleasing color, we mean that we cannot guarantee that every image and every process build color on the proof will be matched on press EXACTLY. Fact is, there isn't a proofing system out there that can account for the effects of ghosting, dot gain for specific paper brands, or the fact that you put a 2" square skyline photo in the middle of a big honking build of 485 and don't expect the sky to go a little magenta on you. Pleasing color means we'll match the images, but not promise the same for the process builds.
If pleasing color is all you need, and you are already happy with the results on your PB, you should be good to go with the Dell.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Well, we can use almost any CRT in our prepress area and use calibration tools to match our contract color proof, which meets SWOP standards. I really don't know if there are effective calibration tools for LCD displays, but I'd imagine they are out there. If so, the only question is how often you'd have to calibrate. We do a bi-monthly check on ours, and hardly ever have to make adjustments. Of course, you still need a neutral environment, the proper lighting, and a good eye, too.
I think "pleasing color" means different things to different printers. In our shop, when we describe pleasing color, we mean that we cannot guarantee that every image and every process build color on the proof will be matched on press EXACTLY. Fact is, there isn't a proofing system out there that can account for the effects of ghosting, dot gain for specific paper brands, or the fact that you put a 2" square skyline photo in the middle of a big honking build of 485 and don't expect the sky to go a little magenta on you. Pleasing color means we'll match the images, but not promise the same for the process builds.
If pleasing color is all you need, and you are already happy with the results on your PB, you should be good to go with the Dell.

Thanks, a very good explanation. I know that with the web system my printer is using that we were able to look at the CMYK values and see how just how well they matched. I took away from my meeting with the printer that if I had a value of 35C 20M 10Y 50K, I could be with a couple points or two in the final output. Pretty darn close IMO.

[Abulia]

This bad boy on the Dell online store yet? I can't find it. Have to send a link to my wife for the XMas present! :)

[homerjward]

i think the vga is the best thing about this. dual 20"ers with an imac. 3360x1050:eek:

[madoka]

From TB:

Dell Home has the new Dell UltraSharp 2005FPW 20.1-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor with Height Adjustable Stand, 1680x1050, 600:1 contrast, 12ms response, DVI, VGA, SVideo, Composite Video input on sale for $679.15 shipped free.

Man, Apple better drop that price soon. Double the price of the Dell just won't cut it.

[homerjward]

here's the linkety btw (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=320-4111&c=us&l=en&cs=19&category_id=2999&page=external) if people couldn't find it. 12ms response time:eek: and i think +/-88 means 176 degrees. because i guess like 88 in either direction? either way, costs more than my laptop so i cant even afford that...

[Little Endian]

From TB:

Dell Home has the new Dell UltraSharp 2005FPW 20.1-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor with Height Adjustable Stand, 1680x1050, 600:1 contrast, 12ms response, DVI, VGA, SVideo, Composite Video input on sale for $679.15 shipped free.

Man, Apple better drop that price soon. Double the price of the Dell just won't cut it.

Could not Agree more!! Apple is making a killing on those who buy the 20inch Cinema Display. It has long been overpriced and Dell as well as others are driving that point home. $1299 is way to high for anyone to justify. Come on Apple $1299!! $500 more will buy a 20" imac G5 or two of those Dell Monitors for the same money. The 20" Cinema Display had better drop to $999 by Macworld or else I will buy something other than Apple when I purchase my new G5 in Janurary

[SilentPanda]

Mine just shipped today... I should have it by the end of this week/early next week. I'm working on getting Dell to refund me from the $799 I paid for it to the $679.15 it's offered for now though... not sure if they'll do it but... I ordered it Friday and the price change was on Monday... I knew I shoulda waited...

Hmmm... I can apparently get the difference if I refuse the package and then reorder... which is really a full refund and reorder... I'm gonna bug them some more to see if I can just get a credit... it seems so much easier for both parties that way...

[the future]

As always, buy what you need. Apple LCDs are certainly high-end, best panels from the manufacturer, SWOP, Alu enclosure, USB 2 and Firewire hub etc. If you don't need such a high-end display, buy something else. But I, personally, would never buy a display before checking it out in real life (i.e. a shop) - which pretty much rules Dell out. For me, the display is quite simply the most important part of the setup, as I stare at it for several hours a day. And my 20" Cinema Display amazes me every day. Put a price tag on that.

[Chip NoVaMac]

As always, buy what you need. Apple LCDs are certainly high-end, best panels from the manufacturer, SWOP, Alu enclosure, USB 2 and Firewire hub etc. If you don't need such a high-end display, buy something else. But I, personally, would never buy a display before checking it out in real life (i.e. a shop) - which pretty much rules Dell out. For me, the display is quite simply the most important part of the setup, as I stare at it for several hours a day. And my 20" Cinema Display amazes me every day. Put a price tag on that.

That is the biggest draw back for me and the Dell.

[Little Endian]

As always, buy what you need. Apple LCDs are certainly high-end, best panels from the manufacturer, SWOP, Alu enclosure, USB 2 and Firewire hub etc. If you don't need such a high-end display, buy something else. But I, personally, would never buy a display before checking it out in real life (i.e. a shop) - which pretty much rules Dell out. For me, the display is quite simply the most important part of the setup, as I stare at it for several hours a day. And my 20" Cinema Display amazes me every day. Put a price tag on that.

Agreed, I would not buy the Dell before getting to see one in person. However one could always buy and return if it were that bad. Hopefully Silent Panda as well as other who purchase the Display can give us insight to it's quality. I DO NOT doubt Apple's 20" Cinema Display as far as visual Quality as well as fit and finish however one can put a price tag on that and it's $1299 which is about twice as much as the Dell which I find to be excessive. I don't think that Apple's 20 inch Cinema Display warrants a 100% premium unless it came with a Zero Dead Pixel Guarantee and came with a three year warranty Standard. How about Being able to do more than tilt, can apple say swivel and turn? now that would have been nice for Apple to have done at a $1299 price point.

Another option is Formac Displays
Only $899 and they have a Zero Dead Pixel Policy sure not Widescreen but one acutally gets more work space and the specs out class Apple's in most regards and I have used the Older Platinum and Oxygen Series Displays and must admit they rival Apple displays in Visual Quality and Color Accuracy.

http://www.formac.com/p_bin/?cid=solutions_displays_gallery2010_01

You allready paid $1299 for an overpriced Cinema Display so you feel obliged to make yourself feel better. Apple will probably drop the price Considerably in a few months or they will see Cinema Display sales Drop off.

Remember the Rumors before the release of the Current Aluminum Displays? The Rumors stated that they would sell for $999 however that seemed to change at last minute so they have been overpriced for awhile. I aslo wonder how many Mac Users out their actually turn to third Party Manufacturers for an LCD because not everybody is willing to spend $1299 for a Display. Apple needs to have a Sub $1000 Apple Display option as they could sell quite a few more and still charge a nice premium over the competition. Arguing that the 20" Cinema Display is not overpriced is about as bad as arguing that the recently discontinued 17" Studio Display at $699 was'nt overpriced!!

I don't think that all of Apple's Cinema Lineup is overprice as I can Argue that the 23" and especially the 30" Cinema Displays are exceptional Values. It is on the low end that Apple is weak. uh wait.....$1299 aint quite low end in price now is it... or even mid range.....

[the future]

$1299 which is about twice as much as the Dell which I find to be excessive.

The Dell display is 799, isn't it? Twice that would be 1599, not 1299.


I don't think that Apple's 20 inch Cinema Display warrants a 100% premium unless it came with a Zero Dead Pixel Guarantee and came with a three year warranty Standard.

I absolutely agree that Apple LCDs should have a three year warranty.


How about Being able to do more than tilt, can apple say swivel and turn?

I don't think that's essential. If you do, buy something else.


Another option is Formac Displays.

Formac's "support" is so horrible I would never buy one of their products (again). Fool me once...


You allready paid $1299 for an overpriced Cinema Display so you feel obliged to make yourself feel better.

Hey, analyze yourself, will ya. I'm just happy with my display, that's all. I think you feel the need to convince yourself that you can do without a Cinema Display in all it's sleek, alu-tastic glory... :D


Apple will probably drop the price Considerably in a few months or they will see Cinema Display sales Drop off.

As the new Dell display is the first non-Apple ws 20" display (that I know of), it will be indeed interesting if we will see more of those in the future and if the competition will make the ACD prices drop. But I wouldn't hold my breath.


Remember the Rumors before the release of the Current Aluminum Displays? The Rumors stated that they would sell for $999 however that seemed to change at last minute so they have been overpriced for awhile.

Rumors are almost always too optimistic. The iPod mini, for example, was supposed to cost 149-199. I don't think the ACD prices were changed "at last minute".


I aslo wonder how many Mac Users out their actually turn to third Party Manufacturers for an LCD because not everybody is willing to spend $1299 for a Display. Apple needs to have a Sub $1000 Apple Display option as they could sell quite a few more and still charge a nice premium over the competition.

Absolutely. Where is that 17" ACD??

[SilentPanda]

I don't really feel like recounting my whole experience with Dell but... this display better be nice or else I'm gonna be ticked. I will not be buying anything else from Dell. Their customer service people (the ones I talked to) had no idea what I was saying since my conversation went something like:

Me: I'm trying to get a price match on a monitor I bought on Friday.

Customer Rep: Your monitor is broken?

:rolleyes:

I wish I was making that up.

[wdlove]

I absolutely agree that Apple LCDs should have a three year warranty.

Apple wants the purchaser to get a CPU also. Then you can have the 3 year AppleCare.

[Grokgod]

Well, I have been having strange thoughts about Apple lately.

With all the recent problems with the LCD's.
( The white spot game with the Pb's, and now the pink tints etc )

Not to mention that there is a NO return policy!
You have to break legs if you think that there is something wrong with your LCD. This includes all the known issues, stuck pixels, pink hues, white spots.

Don't get me wrong, I love Apple product but their policies are NOT loveable! ( A quote from my last relationship! )

But to pay $1200.00 bucks with the ackowledged problems and knowing that IF there are problems APPLE will make it a REAL problem!

IS TOO MUCH to spend $1200.00 bucks to experience!

WHo has time for such sweaty problems.

All this only serves to weaken APPLE base and to lose sales!

Because here I am a LOYAL APPLE user actually going to DELL, <cough cough, the pain of it all> because I feel isolated as an APPLE user from the company that doesnt seem able to back their own product despite the huge prices above other companys.

I would pay the higher costs if it also meant higher service and value.

Of course my DELL experience may be ugly but there is a 100 percent satisfaction condition and I plan to be satisfied or send it back!

By the way, the salesgirl told me that the LCD panel was a SAMSUNG!
COOL..!

[davebytes]

Since I just lost my entire freaking message (it was LONG), I'll keep this shorter. :mad:

The Dell display is 799, isn't it? Twice that would be 1599, not 1299.

As I've posted (see here (http://www.chait.net/index.php?p=508)), the Dell can be had for much lower than the MSRP (unlike Apple displays). In fact, as they were selling down below 700, that's in fact close to half the price of the Apple 20. And if you buy an upper-end XPS, you can get it down under $500. Sheesh. Apple should really do bundle deals like that!

The Dell has more features, and costs less, simply put. Apple hasn't truly justified the pricing of their displays, and my personal opinion is they simply can't at this point. (Well, I'll give them a bit more credit than that -- their build quality is generally impressive...)

Yeah, the mac-only addicts among us (I was one once -- some might know me from a stint at my old company Reality Bytes) will buy Apple just because it is Apple, as will the people 'who don't know any better'. In fact, that's why I started CHAITGEAR, to try and inform average consumers of all the great stuff out there. Certainly, anyone price shopping will find things like the Dell, and purchase it without a second thought (at least if they aren't hard-core Mac-based graphics folks).

Just to reiterate, I believe that Apple's SWOP certification is specifically in combination with certain calibration hardware -- the same class of hardware you can go buy (with software) to calibrate any LCD (or CRT) on the market, within reason, Mac or PC.

Dell isn't the only competition BTW. Well, in the 20" yes this is new, but not at 23". The Sony is a nice display, and frankly the HP L2335 wins hands down on price-for-features. Same res, better contrast, Pivot, swivel and height adjust (really nice), plus not just DVI -- also VGA, Svid, composite, AND component (yes, use it as an HD set!). All that for around $1500, 3/4 the price of the Apple equivalent. Oh, did I mention 3 year parts/labor/onsite warranty?!?

So, back to the question this thread poses... Apple >should< drop their prices, at least 20-25%, to try to get more competitive in pricing. The shift to a DVI connector certainly helped grow market share inside and outside the Mac OS world -- but that's obviously no longer far enough on the feature front. (Lord knows I won't guess at what they WILL do, as I've been saying every year "This is the year Apple understands GAMES drive the industry, and gets behind game development"...)

Can Apple continue to justify their premium costs? Hmmm. No. At least not unless you just have to have an Apple Alu display to match your new G5. ;) Over the past few years Mac machine prices have been dropped to be more in line with those of Dell, HP, and other first-tier manufacturers. Now it's time for display prices to follow. (I should note I applauded the price drops that came with the Alu display introductions -- it just seems the LCD space has shifted faster than Apple has adapted...)

And, I should note, I'm writing this using Windows XP, but on my Apple 20" Cinema Display (original edition!). Which I love. ;) ;)

Now where's the flash-drive iPod already?!?!? :) :)

-d

[Timelessblur]

well what I have noticed is when something like this is posted is the mac zelot idoits who think they know stuff come out and say blah blah apple is right everyone else is wrong. Apple monitors have been over priced for ages.

I still get a great laugh when a friend of mine paid 200 more than I did to get is presistion apple 17 inch monitor. Me I pocket that 200 and got my self the LG monitor that apple rebaged as there own. I have the usb hub that the apple monitor did and I saved 200 bucks. Point out that is is the exact same monitor just the he paid 200 more than I did for the rebaging.

I can tell from this tread people dont know jack about how LCD are made. and how badly apple has market there up. Well it about time apple learn to drop there monitor prices.

[JFreak]

well what I have noticed is when something like this is posted is the mac zelot idoits who think they know stuff come out and say blah blah apple is right everyone else is wrong. Apple monitors have been over priced for ages.

you're totally right about the 17" square-aspect monitor, but... WAKE UP, until now there has not been competition in the widescreen display market. apple has been THE ONLY ONE that has sold such displays, so in that kind of situation it is very hard to judge what is and is not overpriced.

of course, apple displays have always been on the expensive side. they are however also always been on the best quality side, too. you get what you pay for.

now, the dell 20" widescreen display intro should force apple to lower its price - if not for the whole line, then at least the comparable model. i know they won't (ever?) begin competing with price, but i believe they should set their price point somewhat closer to the competition (now that there is such).

[Grokgod]

I am happy to see David from ChaitGear posting here.

I wonder why he hasnt address what I think is a very important issue.

Are APPLE lcd's really better?
Or is it hype? rebranding at its best?

Does APPLE have the edge in COLOR etc.
I am sure David has seen these models together and has compared them
The new Dell widescreen and Apple's cinema display.
Is APPLE's color better, what are the true qualities that stand out as superior?

I have heard that DELL is using the SAME LCD in this model, and yet still I question it, IS APPLE's hype machine THAT good?

Graphics artists care about color, contrast ratio etc.

But the question is firstly are such specs true.?
Is a 250 nit real?

I see on Cnet that specs often change when looked at objective and often are not so easily speced.

Contrast Ratio is not always evenily distributed across the panel etc.

I am interested in hearing or finding the truth in this.

[edesignuk]

Apple wants the purchaser to get a CPU also. Then you can have the 3 year AppleCare.
Which is a complete piss take!

[Grokgod]

Isnt anyone interested in my post :( and replying.

I rarely get a relpy to my posts, is it that my insights and questions are foolish or irritating?

I find them very intereseting.P)

[edesignuk]

I just wanna know when they're gonna show up on the UK website, and see how much they're asking for.

iMac 20" + 20" Dell + ability to still have my PC on the DVI input of the Dell = WIN!!!!

[zoetropeuk]

I am happy to see David from ChaitGear posting here.

I wonder why he hasnt address what I think is a very important issue.

Are APPLE lcd's really better?
Or is it hype? rebranding at its best?

Does APPLE have the edge in COLOR etc.

Apple does have the edge in quality and colour, NO OTHER MANUFACTURER has access to the LCDs that Apple uses. Watch the keynote speech where Steve Jobs introduces the 30". He clearly states that Apple pays more for the VERY BEST LCDs. Apple may at times use some dubious marketing ploys but Apple would be in deep sh_it if this claim was false.

They may come from the same factory and even the same production line as some other displays but APPLE gets the best before anybody else.

Why do you think Dells LCDs fail the SWOP certification ? I know this for a fact, if they were the same then Apple's would fail as well.

The reason for the price difference is the extra cost involved in testing and manufacturing the displays to Apple's standards. Yes I know about the pink tint issue, problems do occur. And if you don't believe this is the reason for the price difference with the Dell then why can Sony still sell a 21" CRT for $1900 ? Yes that's right, a 21" CRT for $1900. Why, because of the colour accuracy and stability. These monitors will not deviate from their calibrated profiles for months.

It's really annoying reading posts on these forums made by people that have no idea what they're talking about or by people with lower standards then others. I save thousands of pounds a year by knowing I can proof jobs on screen without resorting to expensive printed proofs. I feel extremely confident that what I see on-screen is what I'll get back from the printers. I've even gone as far as setting up a G5 on-site with a client so they can proof photos and brochures before going to print.

Before I started using Cinema displays I was forced to run an expensive Epson 5000 proofer. Inks and paper added up to over £5000 some years. I can buy a few new 20"s a years and still have some change, not that I need to.

[vashim66]

Just as a note....Dell has already been discounting their new 20" widescreen to as low as $630 SHIPPED down from the regular price of 799. Or you can get their 20 inch 4:3 flatpanel for $599.

Thats pretty much half of what apple charges. Just thought I'd point this out if anyone was about to buy one.

for more info, goto www.slickdeals.net

[edesignuk]

Just as a note....Dell has already been discounting their new 20" widescreen to as low as $630
$630 = £340 for a 20" widescreen LCD :eek: :eek: :eek: :cool: Wonder how much you could get one shipped over for? :D

[cmvsm]

Uh.. Huh... and Apple's Pink tinge problem and Color Calibration Problems go along way to adding merit to the SWOP Certification. I hope you know that almost all Monitor makers including Apple get their LCD Panels from the same companies Primarily Samsung and LG. Sure Apple's Color Accuracy is without a doubt top notch but there are others that have SWOP certification that are priced Cheaper and if you look at Apples own support and Discussion website I think you will find many who are unhappy with the newest 20 and 23 inch Cinema Displays Due to Color Accuracy Problems not to mention others.

Which LCD's are you talking about that have SWOP certification and are cheaper than the Apple 20? I'd like to take a look!

[wdlove]

Isnt anyone interested in my post :( and replying.

I rarely get a reply to my posts, is it that my insights and questions are foolish or irritating?

I find them very intereseting.P)

Hello Grokgod, I didn't want you to feel left out. I think that you have some good insights with your post above. Don't find you irritating at all.

[Grokgod]

Thanks to both zoetropeuk and wdlove for addressing me and my post.
I think that i have been having a hard time in life and appreciate any understanding.

I guess that these issues mean alot to me and my work and I really appreciate Zoetropeuk's insightful words. Its helping me get my mind around what has always been a issue for me.

I agree with you, what i am still trying to comprehend is the 600:1 contrast ratio put out by Dell for the Ultrasharp 2005fpw and wether its real or not.

Or like Nits where they count it on the bright side of the screen and ignore the dark side! :P

[the future]

iMac 20" + 20" Dell + ability to still have my PC on the DVI input of the Dell = WIN!!!!

I have read somewhere (can't remember where exactly) that it's maybe not such a good idea to use the "spanning hack" on the new iMac (although it works), as the video card may overheat in that tight enclosure.

[brap]

$630 = £340 for a 20" widescreen LCD :eek: :eek: :eek: :cool: Wonder how much you could get one shipped over for? :D
That depends whether it's shipped as "$630 Monitor", or "used auto parts"...

[edesignuk]

That depends whether it's shipped as "$630 Monitor", or "used auto parts"...
Or "Gift" ;) :D

[edesignuk]

I have read somewhere (can't remember where exactly) that it's maybe not such a good idea to use the "spanning hack" on the new iMac (although it works), as the video card may overheat in that tight enclosure.
I've been running it since I got my iMac, and other than my first iMac being a complete dud (for other reasons), I'm having no problems with the second one, and that's with using a 2nd screen all the time.

[SilentPanda]

Well I got my Dell 2005FPW today. No odd pixels as far as I can tell. I'm primarily using it for my PC and someday for my PowerMac G5 when I get one but... my iBook (using the screen spanning hack) was able to display on the 2nd monitor at 1680 x 1050 no fuss at all. Is it good to do? I dunno. But it does work. Now to order that Ergotron arm... :)

[cmvsm]

Uh.. Huh... and Apple's Pink tinge problem and Color Calibration Problems go along way to adding merit to the SWOP Certification. I hope you know that almost all Monitor makers including Apple get their LCD Panels from the same companies Primarily Samsung and LG. Sure Apple's Color Accuracy is without a doubt top notch but there are others that have SWOP certification that are priced Cheaper and if you look at Apples own support and Discussion website I think you will find many who are unhappy with the newest 20 and 23 inch Cinema Displays Due to Color Accuracy Problems not to mention others.

You can say what you will about Apple, but Formac is certainly no reliable alternative. They are based in Germany, and from what I've read, the Customer Service should a problem arise is horrific. If you read C/Net and ZD/NET reviews of this monitor, they site that the frame around the monitor is such flimsy plastic that it could lead to seperation around the area where the monitor matches the surrounding plastic. No thanks. I have the previous 20" studio display and it has been fantastic in terms of reliability, asthetics, color reproduction, and producitivity. I'd like to know what monitors specifically meet the color criteria or prepress proofing of an Apple monitor. Feel free to give examples as you are so freely to site but not willing to give specifics.

[Rod Rod]

the future: Monitor spanning "hack" concerns are complete FUD. The graphics chips are designed for spanning. If anything, the real hack is Apple disabling the feature.

Graphics cards get hot with or without spanning, no better and no worse one way or the other. The only disadvantage to spanning is you're splitting your VRAM between the screens, so instead of 64MB on one you have 32MB on each of two. That doesn't make much difference for people who want to span... and when it does, one can revert to mirroring.


Why do you think Dells LCDs fail the SWOP certification ? I know this for a fact, if they were the same then Apple's would fail as well.

zoetropeuk: Where is your proof that Dell ever even applied? Manufacturers have to pay $5000 for the certification - $2500 to apply, with $2500 due upon successful completion of certification. After that, the certification only lasts for two years. Recertification of unchanged systems costs $2000, and for changed systems the price is $3000, each of which lasts for another two years. To even be considered you must use (and most likely purchase, unless you can borrow Kodak's) calibration products from SWOP.

I'm sure SWOP as an organization is legitimate and does a lot of good for the industry. However, their certification pricing resembles extortion. Dell most likely does not play SWOP's game . . . and gets its kneecaps busted by SWOP's heavies.

A good slice of Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occams_razor) says Dell never applied for SWOP certification.

Your contention would be valid if SWOP were the type of organization which tests everything and makes the pass/fail results known. However, the certification process (http://swop.org/certification.html) is nothing like that.


It's really annoying reading posts on these forums made by people that have no idea what they're talking about or by people with lower standards then others.

(irony)

[Rod Rod]

Well I got my Dell 2005FPW today. No odd pixels as far as I can tell. I'm primarily using it for my PC and someday for my PowerMac G5 when I get one but... my iBook (using the screen spanning hack) was able to display on the 2nd monitor at 1680 x 1050 no fuss at all. Is it good to do? I dunno. But it does work. Now to order that Ergotron arm... :)

Would you care to post a picture of your setup? Have you covered the Dell logo on the front? Thanks.

[SilentPanda]

Once I get the Ergotron Arm I'll take a few pics and post them. I'm rearranging my stuff right now and so... yeah... it's rather nasty looking... :) I haven't covered up the Dell Logo yet but I never notice it.

[Rod Rod]

Nice, thanks. I know what you mean about rearranging things. Whenever I do that, I unplug everything, clean whatever's cleanable and then put everything back together better than it was before.

[sausages]

www.dellrumors.com ? :rolleyes:

lets all use dell computers and eat kraft dinner.
YAY!!!! dell has actually sells a product that's the cheapest in its equivilant market? that's just amazing...

unfortunately i'm not interested in buying a computer that depreciates in price as such an incredible rate. Sure, apple hardware is chronically expensive compared to pcs. apple will be able to reduce their hardware prices as their sales and market share increases. apple can't lower their prices to increase their sales because its too risky and there isn't enough profit margin....its an awkard position that you can help fix! buy apple!

at the end of the day, i guess you'd got to think about what sort of organisation you're supporting. apple is an innovative company which produces the great things i'm sure we're all aware of. dell has such an efficient production chain (that doesn't have many links at all!) that makes owning a computer much lighter on the peoples pockets, but doesn't offer anything new. with dells cheapness hurting apple and its innovation (as we've seen to date), if we all bought dell, new technology development would grind to a halt.

...if only the dell principle was applied to apple hardware, and dell used its market position to push more computer users into non-microsoft software and products (as we know them to date)

dell = capitalist machine, which in the end hurts the technological advancements which you're seeking in the first place.

[JeffTL]

Dell flat panels are among their best products -- good enough that I'd suggest that Mac users look carefully at them. The price difference is enough that you can get a better computer to hook up to the slightly less attractive display -- and in the long run, you get more oomph out of RAM than out of an especially sexy monitor.

[Grokgod]

I bought a ( cough cough ) Dell monitor FPW.

So far it looks really nice and I was stunned to see it next to my PowerBook and see that the brightness blows away the laptop LCD.

Of course I am sure that a Cinema Display would also.
Strangely MOST of the controls for the monitor are Greyed out!
I find this bothersome and I can't change the contrast setting.

So i have no idea what is the default.

Now in a few days I will get my NEW G5 and am going to run a Cinema Display and the Dell. Both monitors together and I am going to know at last IF its all HYPE or truth!

All three LCD's together for final evaluation.
PB, Cinema and Dell, fight it out to the death.
The loser gets sold!

Stay Tuned for the truth brought to you in living color photos!

[Muskie]

I bought a ( cough cough ) Dell monitor FPW.

So far it looks really nice and I was stunned to see it next to my PowerBook and see that the brightness blows away the laptop LCD.

Of course I am sure that a Cinema Display would also.
Strangely MOST of the controls for the monitor are Greyed out!
I find this bothersome and I can't change the contrast setting.

So i have no idea what is the default.

Now in a few days I will get my NEW G5 and am going to run a Cinema Display and the Dell. Both monitors together and I am going to know at last IF its all HYPE or truth!

All three LCD's together for final evaluation.
PB, Cinema and Dell, fight it out to the death.
The loser gets sold!

Stay Tuned for the truth brought to you in living color photos!

Wow dude, im excited for these pictures! When do you think you'll have them? As soon as you get the G5? Have fun with that!

[Rod Rod]

sausages: Nobody here was talking about Dell computers. The discussion pertains to Dell-branded LCD monitors. Your rant reads like boilerplate but I give you credit for original thought in the second to last paragraph.

The point of this thread is speculation about pricing pressure possibly causing Apple to drop the price of the 20" ACD. Next time please have the courtesy of reading (not skimming) at least one post before sharing your wisdom. The ideas you presented regarding Apple quality, supporting Apple and so on were already posted by others.

As for your final point, here's a newsflash: Apple is also a capitalist machine.



www.dellrumors.com ? :rolleyes:

lets all use dell computers and eat kraft dinner.
YAY!!!! dell has actually sells a product that's the cheapest in its equivilant market? that's just amazing...

unfortunately i'm not interested in buying a computer that depreciates in price as such an incredible rate. Sure, apple hardware is chronically expensive compared to pcs. apple will be able to reduce their hardware prices as their sales and market share increases. apple can't lower their prices to increase their sales because its too risky and there isn't enough profit margin....its an awkard position that you can help fix! buy apple!

at the end of the day, i guess you'd got to think about what sort of organisation you're supporting. apple is an innovative company which produces the great things i'm sure we're all aware of. dell has such an efficient production chain (that doesn't have many links at all!) that makes owning a computer much lighter on the peoples pockets, but doesn't offer anything new. with dells cheapness hurting apple and its innovation (as we've seen to date), if we all bought dell, new technology development would grind to a halt.

...if only the dell principle was applied to apple hardware, and dell used its market position to push more computer users into non-microsoft software and products (as we know them to date)

dell = capitalist machine, which in the end hurts the technological advancements which you're seeking in the first place.

[Grokgod]

Its a battle of beauty and the beast.

In one corner, The Beauty and fan fav~ Apple Cinema Display.
the original one not the pink hued alu clad newcomer_ blah.

In the other corner, The Beast! Dell's ugly needlessly two tone~ FPW
the new 20" widescreen, not one of the other squares_ spit.

Only the brightest and best in color and contrast will win this event.

Not for the quesy or the young.

Be there or forever be in doubt!

" Is a Cheap Dell monitor better than this extremely expensive Hype machine? I could have saved over $600 bucks!"

Dont let these word haunt you.
This isnt a bout with words that still leaves you thinking. Its a REAL comparison, no questions left unanswered like so many other reviews.

Leave the arena in certainty that you BET on the right or wrong machine.

Be there.....

uuhh Yea, I will post the pictures right after I get the G5.
Its in Anehiem somewhere right now. :P

[edesignuk]

www.dellrumors.com ? :rolleyes:

lets all use dell computers and eat kraft dinner.
YAY!!!! dell has actually sells a product that's the cheapest in its equivilant market? that's just amazing...

unfortunately i'm not interested in buying a computer that depreciates in price as such an incredible rate. Sure, apple hardware is chronically expensive compared to pcs. apple will be able to reduce their hardware prices as their sales and market share increases. apple can't lower their prices to increase their sales because its too risky and there isn't enough profit margin....its an awkard position that you can help fix! buy apple!

at the end of the day, i guess you'd got to think about what sort of organisation you're supporting. apple is an innovative company which produces the great things i'm sure we're all aware of. dell has such an efficient production chain (that doesn't have many links at all!) that makes owning a computer much lighter on the peoples pockets, but doesn't offer anything new. with dells cheapness hurting apple and its innovation (as we've seen to date), if we all bought dell, new technology development would grind to a halt.

...if only the dell principle was applied to apple hardware, and dell used its market position to push more computer users into non-microsoft software and products (as we know them to date)

dell = capitalist machine, which in the end hurts the technological advancements which you're seeking in the first place.Might be an idea for you to actually read, and understand what this thread is about :rolleyes:

http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/readcomprehendpost.jpg

:p :D

[SilentPanda]

I bought a ( cough cough ) Dell monitor FPW.

Strangely MOST of the controls for the monitor are Greyed out!
I find this bothersome and I can't change the contrast setting.

I can't change my contrast setting either... weird. Picture in picture and picture by picture only works with either VGA/DVI and composite/s-video. You can't have the VGA and the DVI on the screen at the same time... I was sorta hoping for two computer desktops on the screen. You can swap between them though which is fine I guess.

Also MacRumors renders a little weird at 1680 x 1050 on some of the shorter stories. They aren't big enough for the graphic that's next to the story. :)

[SilentPanda]

Here are some photos of my setup with the Dell 2005FPW. That's an iBook G4 800 12" next to it, some form of Logitech Keyboard/Mouse combo, Zalman 5.1 Surround Sound headphones, and Maxtor 250 GB external HD in case anybody cares.

There's also a Windows XP computer on the floor (not pictured) which is running the Dell Monitor. The iBook can run it just as well though (which is why the VGA cable is sitting under the iBook stand (which is a Griffin iCurve).

Edit: added a picture of the iBook 12" right in front of the monitor for size comparison.

[Little Endian]

Looks better than the Pictures on the Dell Website. So How is the image quality, response time, brightness etc. Thanks for posting pics!

[SilentPanda]

Everything is fine as far as I can tell image quality wise. I haven't noticed any dead pixels yet... I've been playing Half Life 2 on it with no problems. Today my new video card comes (ATI X800 Pro with 256 MB of RAM) which should allow me to max out all the options in Half Life 2... I don't notice any ghosting.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Since this screen was said to swivel (pivot) for portrait orientation. Do some of the later PB's, eMac's, and the such support that in the video card?

[Rod Rod]

Since this screen was said to swivel (pivot) for portrait orientation. Do some of the later PB's, eMac's, and the such support that in the video card?

According to the ATI Displays 4.4.2 Update / Read Me file, "VERSAVISION" (that's how ATI writes it) a.k.a. 90º screen pivoting "is only available for the following retail cards: RADEON 9800 Pro (and Special Edition), RADEON 9000, 8500 and 9200 PCI."

I'll install it on my PM G4 with OEM Radeon 9000 to see whether I can get it to work.

edit: I installed ATI Displays 4.4.2 and found that, as I expected, pivoting is not enabled. There must be a way to trick ATI Displays 4.4.2 into taking my OEM card for a retail card. Pivoting could come in handy someday when I either buy a pivoting display or tilt my head a lot.

nVidia people appear to be out of luck (as well as OEM Radeon folks).

[Chip NoVaMac]

According to the ATI Displays 4.4.2 Update / Read Me file, "VERSAVISION" (that's how ATI writes it) a.k.a. 90º screen pivoting "is only available for the following retail cards: RADEON 9800 Pro (and Special Edition), RADEON 9000, 8500 and 9200 PCI."

I'll install it on my PM G4 with OEM Radeon 9000 to see whether I can get it to work.

edit: I installed ATI Displays 4.4.2 and found that, as I expected, pivoting is not enabled. There must be a way to trick ATI Displays 4.4.2 into taking my OEM card for a retail card. Pivoting could come in handy someday when I either buy a pivoting display or tilt my head a lot.

nVidia people appear to be out of luck (as well as OEM Radeon folks).

Thanks. Will keep this in mind, if and when I can afford a new Mac.

[Lord Blackadder]

Yeah, I love Apple displays but they've always been mucho dinero, I've never been able to seriously consider one.

was up at the local Microcenter last night looking at a 19" NEC LCD that was ~$450 after rebates. You pay a lot more for the 20", and even the Dell is out of range for me (looks nice though). I just want something to replace my Viewsonic Q95 19"CRT, the tube's getting soft. :mad:

[Yotabyte]

That DELL LCD is not THAT horrible, you should see my old CRT sony trinitron *shudders* monitor - its a whole lot of ugly, and really needs to go on a diet, and stop hanging out with my unshielded speakers as its turning purple....

[Deefuzz]

Not a bad monitor...it would be nice to see the apple displays drop in price. I may have to wait to hop on the LCD wagon to see if that will happen...Though I'm not very optimistic

[wrldwzrd89]

According to the ATI Displays 4.4.2 Update / Read Me file, "VERSAVISION" (that's how ATI writes it) a.k.a. 90º screen pivoting "is only available for the following retail cards: RADEON 9800 Pro (and Special Edition), RADEON 9000, 8500 and 9200 PCI."

I'll install it on my PM G4 with OEM Radeon 9000 to see whether I can get it to work.

edit: I installed ATI Displays 4.4.2 and found that, as I expected, pivoting is not enabled. There must be a way to trick ATI Displays 4.4.2 into taking my OEM card for a retail card. Pivoting could come in handy someday when I either buy a pivoting display or tilt my head a lot.

nVidia people appear to be out of luck (as well as OEM Radeon folks).
A strange decision by ATI, to say the least. What in the book of business sense convinced ATI to do this? It's especially odd if you consider that it's limited to retail cards.

[Little Endian]

There is a very long thread at anandtech about the Dell 2005FPW.

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=1433149&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

[mojohanna]

Yes, I have been looking for an affordable, quality FP. This seems to address the needs. Although I would love to have the Apple 20" (It would look soooo sweet on my desk) I just can't justify the extra $$$s. I dont do anything professtionally with my system to need the Apple.

[edesignuk]

Edit: added a picture of the iBook 12" right in front of the monitor for size comparison.That looks really nice. iWant! ;) :D

[vashim66]

Just put my order through Dell Home for the 2005FPW

I ended up getting it $564.25 shipped. Beats the hell out of 1299 for the apple display. Used a 25% off coupon with the 35$ off accessories w/free shipping.

Will post pictures once it arrives in 3-5 days!

[edesignuk]

I ended up getting it $564.25 shipped.
That is an amazing price for a 20" wide LCD of these specs :eek:

[wrldwzrd89]

Personally, the higher price of an Apple 20 inch display doesn't bug me one bit. If I had a PowerMac, I'd gladly buy two of them. I'd be just as willing to buy a pair of 23 inch displays from Apple. Two 30 inch displays don't fit on my desk, so I wouldn't buy them (at least not right now - if my desk space situation changes I might buy).

[Grokgod]

In this corner the beast.
The 20" Dell fpw.

Out of its corner and box.
It weighs in with a small and tight enclosure with the usual two tone colors.
Black and a fake silver so popular in the PC world.

In this corner the classic beauty.
The original Apple Cinema Display.

Out of its corner and box.
It weighs in a bit on the heavy side but clad in a elegant white and see thru enclosure.

At first glance it looks to be an equally balanced fight.

The Dell starts out with an impressive 600:1 contrast ratio
Slamming down the older 300:1 on the Cinema.

But its strangely ineffective against the Cinema because it isnt compatible on a Mac.
The Dell's Contrast Ratio been GREYED out and uselessly set at 50%.

Wow
What a surprise turnaround, the Dell's best advantage has been nulled!
Its not an option in conjuntion with the Mac.

The Cinema counters with style and grace and better compatibilty.
A two button attack of Power switch and Brightness creates ease of use and functionality.

The Dell is confused, clumsy and trips over itself with poor onscreen functionality.
And what's this?... MOST of the screens variables are again USELESS against the Cinema!
They are almost all grayed out!?? Incredible!

Its one function that can be used, Brightness is almost ridiculously nonfunctional.
Even bringing it to a zero factor can barely contain its almost blinding 300 nits. In fact without being able to raise its contrast ratio, the extra brightness seems to be washing out some of its color.
What a shocker, the Dell's best and newest technological traits are being slapped down.

The Cinema's Color is brillant without being overpowering.
Yet there is a sharpness to it that seems to push down the Dell.
It must be that default 50% contrast ratio, its throwing the Dell on to the ropes!

The Dell is teetering and brings out its swivel stand and pivot view mode as a feeble attempt to fight back.
But to NO avail because it can't stand up to the classic picture frame good looks of the Cinema.

The Cinema slams the Dell to the ground just by standing still.
What a sight to see!

Is this fight about over.....??

NO! The Dell has an ace up its sleeve and pulls out its price tag!!
Bought at $679. With free shipping! What an awesome move.
Who can resist this value?

How can the Apple Cinema possible challenge this with its heavy handed $1299. price tag?
Its looking dark for the Cinema!

Wait!.... Yes!
The Apple Cinema Display was bought for a mere $700.
Due to the fact that its a discontinued model. It can be gotten at Ebay or a local Guitar Center etc for a much lower price tag than the original sticker price.

What an awesome deal for what is one of the Best Displays in the History of Computing!

The Dell is dizzy and confused, we might have to stop this fight!

The Ref moves in close and raises his arm signaling the Judges.
My GoD!@#$%^& The Dell is bleeding!

There is a PINKish hue cast on its screen.
There is a double check with the manager in the Dell's corner, to see if it isnt just part of the graphic or the extra NITS. But after double checking with the Cinema and a panel of CRT judges.

Its confirmed!
The Dell has a pinkish hue not always apparant but there!
Dell throws in the towel.

Its over! What a startling turnaround here tonight.
Ladies and Gentlemen.

It was a valiant attempt by the Dell Upstart and perhaps in another time and place with a compatible PC.
The Dell may have won.

The Apple Cinema Display was a fan favorite but odds placed it as the underdog to this newer and cheaper upstart model.

Even this reporter had his doubts about the reigning older Champ, which lead to the purchase of both Lcd's.

I thought that the Dell's claimed 600:1 contrast ratio would destroy the Cinema!

In the end, it was the nonfunctionality of many of the Dell's so called technological improvements and compatiblity, that made its 20 dollar real world price difference insignifigant!
That and the Dell's almost blaring brightness that could barely be dimmed to a comfortable level depending on a room variable lightening.
Were some of the major nags with this LCD.

But the final kicker was that in some instances there was a disturbing pink cast. Not always there but coupled with the other issues, and the fact that the prices were nearly equal. I saw NO compelling reason to buy the Dell.

"DUDE, Your sending the Dell BACK!"

The Apple Cinema Display has surprisingly held onto its Championship Belt for any year.

Whew, what a fight!

[Timelessblur]

but if you have a pc and want a 20in wide screen the old lcd from apple you have to add another 100 to the cost because apple had yet to figure out the stupidiy of there ADC contection

[Grokgod]

Pc's ? I use a Mac so connecting it to a PC is meaningless to me and borders on insulting. :)

I posted the review to set to rest the dabate of wether a cheaper monitor can match an Apple Display.

Connecting an older APPLE display to a PC is lunacy.
The newer Apple displays have DVI so there is no need for an additional adapter!

[maya]

The 20 inch ACD will come down in price if there is little demand for it and competitors are selling comparable displays. My guess since there is no sub 1000 USD display the 20 inch will drop. Apple is trying to profit as much as possible before it lowers it price for MWSF05. :)

You can count on it, with the Apple stock prices on the rise it is bound to lower the price of the 20 inch. Which is always good. Anyone remember the 1st Apple lcd screens that were bondi blue and white to match the G3 BW.

That design seems to have made an altered comeback with the AL ACD.

Only thing the bondi lcd had was height adjustment and tilt.

The ACD needs to have a built-in swivel base (left to right) built into the AL stand. That way it moves, its secure, and you don't see a visible circle. The up down tilting needs more flexibility (for some users its a requirement). If only the stand was height adjustable would be add a great benefit to many. and the last thing a pivot from landscape to portrait view. Seems Apple is not interested in portrait view, since all they PRO apps use the wide-screen format as well as movies and that is what they are interested in, if you want to work with portrait sized images why not work with 2 sided by side is Apple's thinking.

only having DVI, FW, USB ports is for simplicity. Kinda ruins it for people who want to use other connectors. However that is Apple keep it simple and clean. :)

Apple's 23 inch lcd could also see a small price drop, however they 30 inch screen is very price competitive indeed. The 30 inch is the best ACD deal offered, and add that dual screen GPU to the price. :D

[the future]

In this corner the beast. The 20" Dell fpw. (...) In this corner the classic beauty.The original Apple Cinema Display.

Great report! Lesson for the cheapskates: you do get what you pay for.

[davebytes]

Aside from the 'lack of controls' on the Dell, I didn't get enough of a feel from that rough comparison. Especially if you're looking at comparing an older model off eBay, with a ADC connector and no monitor controls at all, not to mention USB1. not 2.0... ;)

Since I >do< have a 20" ADC, but don't have a 2005FPW sitting here, I can't compare the screens. But the shots of the two looked near identical in a photograph. From the specs, the Dell should have some better range.

From what I've read, some of the Dell controls auto-set and disable when connected via DVI. You can just as easily go into your video card control panel to adjust from the presets. Yeah, sometimes you'd like different presets -- we'll have to wait and see if Dell states why they decided to go that route. Note that certain DVI televisions also disable some control settings when connected over DVI. And frankly, that's exactly what I have to do right now with my ADC-connector 20" via DrBotts ADC2DVI adapter on a PC.

Then, add in that for that price, the Dell also offers composite & svideo inputs, VGA in addition to DVI, height, tilt, and swivel adjustments, and Pivot -- plus warranty. It just wins in the end on features for the price. Especially when you compare to a new ADC @ 1299 (or maybe 1199 if you shop) versus a new Dell at around $600 (the avg price you can get it for), and not a unit off eBay! ;)

As soon as I can get Dell to cough up a review unit, I'll put it to a visual test. But on specs and features, combined with price, any average user would be wise to think carefully before spending 2X on the Apple model.

Does Apple really get better panels? Probably. Maybe they get fewer dead pixels. Who really knows...

Is the Apple picture quality better? Likely arguable, given that no two people see color perfectly alike, not to mention few will agree on brightness settings! ;)

If you are buying a Mac to start with, and get the monitor with the system where you get the warranty coverage, that at least improves things a bit. And your monitor then matches your platinum G5, which is (sadly) important to many consumers.

Gnite all,

-d

[Toreador93]

I thought I was never going to buy another Dell product again....

...but I just couldn't pass up the price!!

I've been looking around everywhere for a monitor to rival Apple's Cinema. I was too afraid to pay $1169 (student discount), which would be nearly the same price as a computer I decide to buy. But after finding the Dell (only a few hours ago on this site), and discounts (http://www.slickdeals.net/forums/t54792.html?&page=191&pp=15), nearly halving the price to $645 shipped for similar specs sold me.

If I had thousands of dollars to spend, I'd probably get the Apple display. But seeing as how I'm a college student, you can't beat the Dell. Even my Mac-addicted friend (who is dying to get a mac, and completely hates windows/pcs) convinced me to buy the Dell Display IMMEDIATELY! If I don't like it, I can return it. But the chances are I'm not going to find anything close to this for a while.

Well, off to dream about my insane savings :D

[angelneo]

I think we need more reviews especially on the image quality, sometimes having higher specs cannot really show the quality from what I have learnt. A number of people seems to think that LCD is all about the specifications.

[Chip NoVaMac]

Well, I decided to jump on this Dell monitor with all the coupons out there. $600 complete and with 12 months interest free financing. Bummer is that tell me it won't ship till the 17th. Well maybe something for me to play with on Xmas Eve then. :)

[Rod Rod]

Nice, congratulations. Please post an update once you get it. Maybe by then 10.3.7 will be out and who knows, maybe it (10.3.7) will enable contrast controls for that monitor.

It took about a month and a half for Dell to ship my 1TB LaCie drive. By the way, I had to sell the Lexus to afford it. :)

[Grokgod]

The Dells image quality was nice, the same as the Cinema.

But the contrast setting was unusable so its true specs were worthless!

Also the Brightness control was useless!
Imagine staring into a TOO bright light constantly.
A bright bulb glaring into your eyes, that isnt good!

It was painful for me. Badly and irritating.
There are many times when I turn down the cinema's brightness for comfortable use! At differnet times of the day.
That is what brightness controls are for.

If anyone thinks that hurting your eyes to save a few dollars is ok, then they arent thinking right.

Insane saving cant help poor vision.

>>davebytes~

Again, the image quality was comparible to the Cinema, except for the pinkish hue at times and some colors seemed washed out due to excessive brightness. Dell may even be using the same LCD's as the new AluLcd's that have a pinkish problem also.

The Cinema has monitor controls through the Color management system.
The point is that you can never set the contrast ratio on the dell all the way up as you must to use the management system.

Again the image qualitys were comparible so obviously the Cinema was the better choice to compare it to, because that is the unit that can be had for the same price on eBay or various other stores!
There are TOO many problems with the newer Cinemas to even bother trying to make a comparison.

As for the other inputs, i never found them an issue because I have a 36" plasma television and use that for all my viewing needs that are not computer related. So, the dell's additional inputs are of no value to me.
I buy computer monitor for computers.
And reviewed as that.
Maybe the problems with the Dells are not apparent across the room,
but when you use it as a computer monitor then that is a problem!
Plenty of usb ports on the G5, again good enough, not enough of a issue to warrent use with the galring problems it had.

"Hey Dad, I'm blind but got to use USB off the back of my monitor instead of the computer, cool huh!" :)

I would really say that the really bad things about the Dell wiped out the additional usb etc and the pivot.

You have to get the basics to enjoy the rest.

Also dealing with Dell has been ridiculous!
I like talking to people in India they are very polite but nothing gets done and they are all very confused there!

[Chip NoVaMac]

The Dells image quality was nice, the same as the Cinema.

But the contrast setting was unusable so its true specs were worthless!

Also the Brightness control was useless!
Imagine staring into a TOO bright light constantly.
A bright bulb glaring into your eyes, that isnt good!

It was painful for me. Badly and irritating.
There are many times when I turn down the cinema's brightness for comfortable use! At differnet times of the day.
That is what brightness controls are for.

If anyone thinks that hurting your eyes to save a few dollars is ok, then they arent thinking right.

Insane saving cant help poor vision.



Can you explain the Contrast and Brightness issues that seem to bother you? I will have to wait for a couple weeks till my 205FPW comes in, so I can only judge by the online manual at this point (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2005FPW/English/index.htm) - not firsthand usage. And the Contrast and Brightness can be set from the front buttons on the panel. Are you saying that the range is not nearly enough for adjustments?

It is that with all the monitors that I have used on both PC's and Mac's; I just see where your comments are coming from.

[wrldwzrd89]

Can you explain the Contrast and Brightness issues that seem to bother you? I will have to wait for a couple weeks till my 205FPW comes in, so I can only judge by the online manual at this point (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/monitors/2005FPW/English/index.htm) - not firsthand usage. And the Contrast and Brightness can be set from the front buttons on the panel. Are you saying that the range is not nearly enough for adjustments?

It is that with all the monitors that I have used on both PC's and Mac's; I just see where your comments are coming from.
I gathered that the brightness and contrast controls on the Dell monitor were not even functional - you couldn't adjust the brightness or the contrast.

[Grokgod]

Chip NoVaMac~ let me explain further.

As I said in my review and again in my last post.

The Contrast ratio is Grayed OUT!

No use, USELESS, will not work, cannot be adjusted.
Dimmed, Greyed, not an option.

:)

Also the Brightness is Useless.
It can be adjusted BUT it doesnt actually adjust anything.
Except maybe frustration which is further finetuned to maddness by the Dell tech support in India, who are brillantly polite, kind and equally USELESS!

The brightness will allow perhaps 1 percent change. Maybe 2.
But that isnt enough, IMHO.
I mean you have to stretch the imagination to see the change its NOT obvious or extreme.

I only use Mac's , dont know about Pc's and don't care about pc's!

Plus let me add that all these things are working beautifully with the Cinema! The LCD has two buttons one power , one brightness.
Both work great, I love not having to go to the computer in the closet to turn it on. And the brightness control is a sleight of hand breeze.

Compare that to the bizarre labrynth on the Dell, sheesh.
India is great, I heard a cow mooo next to her.

[Rower_CPU]

On the Dell LCDs I've used, the contrast control is disabled when connected via DVI but available for VGA connections. Not sure why, but that's what I've seen.

[Chip NoVaMac]

On the Dell LCDs I've used, the contrast control is disabled when connected via DVI but available for VGA connections. Not sure why, but that's what I've seen.

If that is the case, on a PB 12" rev B, what would using DVI verses the VGA output do (other than maybe make the Contrast available, and maybe a greater variance in the Brightness) for me?

[Toreador93]

Can you use your video card's options for brightness and contrast?

[Abulia]

As I said in my review and again in my last post.

The Contrast ratio is Grayed OUT!

No use, USELESS, will not work, cannot be adjusted.
Dimmed, Greyed, not an option.
Uuuh that's by design. DVI sends the data through the digital interface. You don't set geometry, contrast, pixel clock, or phase adjustment; you use your video card.

In the case of a Mac, I recommend SuperCal, a shareware calibration utility. I just calibrated by 2005FPW and it looks amazing. The brightness controls are there just to tweak your settings, not change the picture from snow to dark. The Mac automatically set the correct color profile out of the box without much fiddling; there is a very slight difference between my calibrated profile and the default. (Mine is a tad darker contrast.)

Interesting that your post is what passes for "review" around here. You use "worthless" and "ridiculous" to describe the Dell. I favor "amazing value" and "fantastic picture" but maybe that's because I figured out how to calibrate mine.

Bought $550 new.

[Abulia]

If that is the case, on a PB 12" rev B, what would using DVI verses the VGA output do (other than maybe make the Contrast available, and maybe a greater variance in the Brightness) for me?
DVI gives you a pure digital picture; your video card passes along geometry settings, contrast, and other details. VGA does not, requiring you to adjust those settings. You also get better signal strength not prone to interference with DVI. Essentially DVI is "hands free" mode -- plug it in and it works. :)

[Abulia]

Nice, congratulations. Please post an update once you get it. Maybe by then 10.3.7 will be out and who knows, maybe it (10.3.7) will enable contrast controls for that monitor.
Has nothing to do with the OS version; you can set the contrast and brightness via your color calibration scheme right now. This is by design (when using DVI).

[Rod Rod]

Has nothing to do with the OS version; you can set the contrast and brightness via your color calibration scheme right now. This is by design (when using DVI).

Thank you, I gathered as much from your previous two posts in a row. If you must respond to multiple people, please do so in a single post. Using tabs and copy/paste makes the process very simple.

[Abulia]

Thank you, I gathered as much from your previous two posts in a row. If you must respond to multiple people, please do so in a single post. Using tabs and copy/paste makes the process very simple.
Actually they were different questions with different answers.

I'm sorry that the format of my answers didn't meet with your approval. So much for being helpful. <shrug>

[edesignuk]

I gave in, just ordered up a 2005FP, little christmas present to myself :D

hmmmm....3360x1050 desktop space (iMac 20+2005FP)...sweetness...

[Rod Rod]

Actually they were different questions with different answers.

I'm sorry that the format of my answers didn't meet with your approval. So much for being helpful. <shrug>

The only thing different about the questions was the askers. Your explanation of the nature of DVI answered my post sufficiently. Anyhow, I appreciate your helpfulness, but three posts in a row is excessive.


I gave in, just ordered up a 2005FP, little christmas present to myself :D

hmmmm....3360x1050 desktop space (iMac 20+2005FP)...sweetness...

Congratulations ... does Dell have crazy coupons for UK customers as well?

[edesignuk]

Congratulations ... does Dell have crazy coupons for UK customers as well?
No :(

[Chip NoVaMac]

I gave in, just ordered up a 2005FP, little christmas present to myself :D

hmmmm....3360x1050 desktop space (iMac 20+2005FP)...sweetness...

Congrats! I am trying to patiently wait for mine. :)

[edesignuk]

Congrats! I am trying to patiently wait for mine. :)
Mine's due to arrive Wednesday :cool:

[Chip NoVaMac]

Mine's due to arrive Wednesday :cool:

You are trying to taunt me, aren't you? :D

Ordered mine on the evening of Dec 3, and it sys it won't ship till Dec 17. :(

[edesignuk]

You are trying to taunt me, aren't you? :D

Ordered mine on the evening of Dec 3, and it sys it won't ship till Dec 17. :(
What can I say, except...:p

:D

I'll post pics for you :p

[ewinemiller]

I just got one of the Dell fp2005s. It's great, no dead or stuck pixels, colors look good, bright, blacks look good, etc. I like the thin black bezel.

I don't have an old or new 20" cinema display to compare it to, but I don't remember the ones I've seen in compusa being any better. Perhaps I could tell the difference if they were side by side, however for that comparison, I'd have to stack about $700 (paid only $654 total for the Dell) on top of the Dell to even things up and I find that makes it look even better!

For the difference in price, I was able to pay for about 60% of the refurb dual 3ghz Precision 470 I picked up at the Dell outlet.

Regards

[edesignuk]

I'm actually incredibly impressed :eek: with Dell.

I placed my order this morning, then they rang me this evening to arrange delivery. It will be here on Tuesday of next week between 17:00-21:00.

I've never had an online store ask me when I'd like something delivered before, you're normally just left to guess.

Very impressed so far, hope I'm equally impressed by the screen itself.

[Windowlicker]

As "horrible" as the Dell screen looks (note that the speakers are removable), I don't think most people are willing to spend the extra $500 for a screen with the same specs and slightly better aesthetics. Apple really needs to get the 20" model under the $1k mark.

You're absolutely right . . . I would rather stay on a 17" Apple ;)

[ravenvii]

OMG, with the crazy coupons, it seems I can get this for $554... So damn tempting!!! Can anyone help me resist it?! I already have a rather nice 17" Samsung, but nooo I just gotta have this Dull widescreen!

AAHHHH

Just wondering, how easily foldable and transportable is this screen? I bring my screen back and forth from college 2 times a year (Christmas and summer), and this 17" literally folds flat, which is nice. Can you make this screen as compact?

[ewinemiller]

Just wondering, how easily foldable and transportable is this screen? I bring my screen back and forth from college 2 times a year (Christmas and summer), and this 17" literally folds flat, which is nice. Can you make this screen as compact?

It detaches from it's stand pretty easy, so you've got the screen itself and the pedestal. Not as compact as your 17", but certainly doesn't seem to me that it would be a real pain to transport.

[Toreador93]

DO IT! I got mine for $645 (received a few days ago) and I feel it's a steal.

Worrying about how compact it is really shouldn't be a concern if you move it twice a year, unless you have a really small car, or travel by another means. I take my guitar and amp to and from college. Sure it takes a little more effort to pack the stuff in my car, but it's well worth it.

If you can afford it, and have an extra cubed foot or so in your car, do it. :D

[ravenvii]

I take the train home and back during the holidays. So I do "travel by other means".

[ewinemiller]

I take the train home and back during the holidays. So I do "travel by other means".

If you've got space in a nice set of rolling luggage go for it, if you're toting a backpack, skip it.

[edesignuk]

Never thought I'd be pleased or excited to see a Dell box!!!

http://img14.exs.cx/img14/2455/img03977hf.th.jpg (http://img14.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img14&image=img03977hf.jpg)

w00t! :D

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/6039/img03985gy.th.jpg (http://img45.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img45&image=img03985gy.jpg)

[Rower_CPU]

Very nice - what res can the iMac run that bad boy at?

[edesignuk]

Very nice - what res can the iMac run that bad boy at?
The full 1680x1050 :D

[XIII]

I gave in, just ordered up a 2005FP, little christmas present to myself :D

hmmmm....3360x1050 desktop space (iMac 20+2005FP)...sweetness...
How much in the olde uk pounds...?

[edesignuk]

How much in the olde uk pounds...?
£609, rip-off compared to US prices, but what what can you do :rolleyes:

[Rod Rod]

w00t! :D

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/6039/img03985gy.th.jpg (http://img45.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img45&image=img03985gy.jpg)

I like the setup, and the desktop image! :)

[Chip NoVaMac]

Never thought I'd be pleased or excited to see a Dell box!!!

http://img14.exs.cx/img14/2455/img03977hf.th.jpg (http://img14.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img14&image=img03977hf.jpg)

w00t! :D

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/6039/img03985gy.th.jpg (http://img45.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img45&image=img03985gy.jpg)

Congrats!

I just got notice yesterday that mine shipped on Sunday.

Though my issues on this and another order with Dell makes me wonder about buying anything from Dell.

On this order for the 2005FPW, it took the sales agent almost 30 minutes to process the order over the phone.

On another order, I have spent over 1 1/2 on the phone with. I ordered an item that did appear to be priced wrong. I did get a acknowledgment of my order online. Never got a confirmation. Spent 1/2 hour on the sales line before I was given to Customer Service (a separate call). After an hour I got assurances that a manger would call me in an hour. After 1 1/2 hours I emailed the rep at Customer Service. He told me then that I would not get a call, but gave me a cryptic message to call two different numbers. He has ignored two other emails I sent yesterday.

I am beginning to think that the $600 for the 2005FPW is not worth the hassles of poor customer service (hang-ups, phone tree hell). The frustration with Dell is worth at least $200 IMO so far.

I was planning on doing some Xmas shopping, and buying a Win XP machine next year with Dell. But the way Dell treats their customers, I am thinking of voting with my dollars. So far (knock on wood) I have been very happy with Apple.

Though to be honest the under $600 for this monitor is hard to pass up.

[Chip NoVaMac]

I like the setup, and the desktop image! :)

Agreed. Really like what I see. It may make it harder to decline the shipment of my 2005FPW. :eek:

[XIII]

£609, rip-off compared to US prices, but what what can you do :rolleyes:

Yeah. Bit hard to smuggle past her majesty too... :)

[Calvinatir]

I oredered mine on Dec 10, with the $45 stackable coupon and teh 25% off Dell monitor coupon at the time. It came to $554!! After the Los Angeles county tax of 8.25% the total was $599.97! Under $600 shipped for this beauty. It was also supposed to take 5-7 days to process before shipment but it shipped the same day. I got it today (14th) at noon! Score!

[Chip NoVaMac]

I oredered mine on Dec 10, with the $45 stackable coupon and teh 25% off Dell monitor coupon at the time. It came to $554!! After the Los Angeles county tax of 8.25% the total was $599.97! Under $600 shipped for this beauty. It was also supposed to take 5-7 days to process before shipment but it shipped the same day. I got it today (14th) at noon! Score!

Based on my voice mail hell and the lack of a reply to to one of of their customer service reps, I would think twice about Dell.

I am ready to refuse delivery...

[XIII]

I oredered mine on Dec 10, with the $45 stackable coupon and teh 25% off Dell monitor coupon at the time. It came to $554!! After the Los Angeles county tax of 8.25% the total was $599.97! Under $600 shipped for this beauty. It was also supposed to take 5-7 days to process before shipment but it shipped the same day. I got it today (14th) at noon! Score!

Sob. Thats, like, £300... :p Why are we so overcharged...
:(

[awesomebase]

Well, I just couldn't justify the price of the Apple monitor. At $1299 + tax + shipping, it was just too much. I ordered the Dell monitor and it works fantastic. It isn't as ugly as people make it sound. The black bezel is actually very clean looking and the colors really pop. Also, there is no pink haze or dead pixels to report. And unlike the Apple display, the response time on this is 12ms instead of 16ms (previous Cinema Display was 25ms). So, watching any kind of video looks incredible. I was really amazed at how well my digital photos on my .mac website looked! They were so sharp with crisp colors. Add on the fact that I received my monitor for $569 out the door! I would have easily paid another $800 for the Apple monitor.
So, as much as I love to use my G5 and my PB, I can't help but recommend this monitor to anyone that wants a good display. It is HIGHLY recommended. And, one other great property is that it slides up and down, a noteworthy feature that is necessary for me since my wife is a foot shorter than I am. If Apple came down in price to about $799, I might have considered it, but, even at $1000, it is sorely overpriced in the market. Their 23" monitor is still relatively competitive at that price point, but, probably not for much longer...
One other thing to mention, keep in mind that this is just a monitor and it is likely that the manufacturer of the components uses many of the same supplies used for the Apple monitor. In any case, I'm very happy with the purchase. Dell also shipped the monitor earlier than expected with just standard shipping selected.

[SilentPanda]

Very nice - what res can the iMac run that bad boy at?

My iBook G4 pulls of 1680 x 1050 too... :)

[Rower_CPU]

My iBook G4 pulls of 1680 x 1050 too... :)

Very nice, both of you.

If I was in the market for a new LCD (read: if I had the money right now) I'd definitely get one of these.