Mac Pro Update - July 20th

[Sean Dempsey]

Do you think it will be on the 20th?

[rmwebs]

Nope. If it was going to happen, it would have been today. You know how Apple like to keep their releases synced.

iPad, iPhone, MacMini, Nothing.

Which means:
- Nothing this month
- iMac next month
- iPods September
- MacBooks October
- Pro November

Ok....this is a complete wild guess but wouldn't surprise me at all :D

[zedsdead]

I highly doubt it. Once Apple announces the date for their quarter report, this time July 20th, don't expect anything until AFTER that date. It could occur next wednesday, but I also wouldn't hold my breath on that either.

Based on the reports, I think we will see the iMac, Mac Pro, and new Cinema Display make an appearance in August. If not, I can see it happening in October or November at a desktop focused event based with a new iLife/iWork.

[keewe]

september seems to be most likely. several "insiders" on this forum (without any reliable source) said it would take that long and after today... i beleive them.

[strausd]

I was just lookin at Apples site today. I noticed the "New to the store" thing and of course, iPhone 4 right up there. I'm not so sure it will come out next week, mainly because they probably wana keep iPhone 4 at the top of that list for a while. As for september, we still have no idea. There was only one real "rumor" about it and that was only speculation, so I wouldn't even consider that a true rumor anyways. I just want them to update soon, it's getting ridiculous. I emailed Steve today :) nothing yet... :(

[BobHail]

January 2011 we´ll see new Mac Pros.

[xgman]

The only thing keeping me hanging on is osx. I give up on a release before this fall and even though I think that this long delay is quite pathetic, I will wait a bit longer. I'm actually starting to think that apple could very well be phasing the pro out. I don't care about the pc hardware vs the Mac, just my osx programs. I hate to go back to pc, but it is now looking like this may be inevitable. I really thought apple would have pulled this one out by now and I am quite saddened by the state of things and the way apple is handling things like the botched iPhone 4 launch and subsequent antenna debacle. I think it is time for Jobs to go. Apple needs fresh blood. They are starting to resemble Microsoft of the 90's, and that ain't good. I think the writing is on the wall and we need to start considering viable alternatives. I am not willing to continue to invest in a platform that has a bewildering 2 yr update schedule. That is like 10 years in tech years.

[DoFoT9]

highly doubted unfortunately :( the iPhone4 seems to still be causing a lot of stress for apple!

[apolloa]

Do you think it will be on the 20th?

I have NO idea and neither does ANYONE else on this forum. That is a FACT.

[strausd]

Steve Jobs might need to go, I'm starting to agree with you on that. Because of him, Apple was saved. But now because of him, its turning into a mobile company. They need a CEO that can handle ALL of Apples products, not just portable ones.

[jjahshik32]

I dont know why but I got my money on september.

[ValSalva]

The only thing keeping me hanging on is osx. I give up on a release before this fall and even though I think that this long delay is quite pathetic, I will wait a bit longer. I'm actually starting to think that apple could very well be phasing the pro out. I don't care about the pc hardware vs the Mac, just my osx programs. I hate to go back to pc, but it is now looking like this may be inevitable. I really thought apple would have pulled this one out by now and I am quite saddened by the state of things and the way apple is handling things like the botched iPhone 4 launch and subsequent antenna debacle. I think it is time for Jobs to go. Apple needs fresh blood. They are starting to resemble Microsoft of the 90's, and that ain't good. I think the writing is on the wall and we need to start considering viable alternatives. I am not willing to continue to invest in a platform that has a bewildering 2 yr update schedule. That is like 10 years in tech years.

I'm with you on the OS X thing. And Tim Cook did a great job during SJ's absence. Macs still seemed like a priority until SJ came back this time.

[cooljoe349]

Steve Jobs might need to go, I'm starting to agree with you on that. Because of him, Apple was saved. But now because of him, its turning into a mobile company. They need a CEO that can handle ALL of Apples products, not just portable ones.

I agree

[SnowLeopard2008]

Things are moving to mobile in the consumer space so it makes sense for Apple to focus more on mobile. Apple isn't tunnel-visioned to the prosumer market like they were before. For people that do need Mac Pros, I thought it was better to have a stable platform for a long period of time, not new platform every half year or something. Also, Apple might be re-designing the Mac Pro. It's one of the only products in their entire lineup that shares a design with their PPC stuff. Everything else, iMac, Mini, MBP, MB, etc. has changed since PPC times.

[deconstruct60]

I highly doubt it. Once Apple announces the date for their quarter report, this time July 20th, don't expect anything until AFTER that date. It could occur next Wednesday, but I also wouldn't hold my breath on that either.


They could do it on the same day if don't wait till market closes to release the numbers. Lots of info will be released that day. Even more so since it would not be a "big dog and pony show release". Being quiet before the quarterly report would be more a reason to move it off of today, 13th, much more than the same day. The Mac Pros sold that day have absolutely zero material impact on the FYQ3 numbers that Apple is going to talk about (as they would now). FYQ4 has already started for a couple of weeks. That revenue won't show up until a discussion in October. The number of Mac Pros that they could sell in a couple of hours would have zero impact on their FYQ4 projections. So really makes no difference in the financial discussions.

The SEC restrictions are talking about the financial results. They are not on releasing product if it is time.

Frankly a release that morning of a Mac Pro would avoid someone perhaps bringing up "Are you dumping the Mac product lines" kinds of questions.


That said I personally think the obvious hang up is that Intel hasn't shipped 3620 and 3640 processors. Without them not going to get a Mac Pro update.
If Intel announces their availabiity on the 19th and Apple doesn't move on the 20th that is a screw up. Not sure if Intel is going to wait till August though to let those loose on the market. ( there is a big i7-960 price cut rumored to be coming in August. That should help open the door for a $600 six core processor. )



Based on the reports, I think we will see the iMac, Mac Pro, and new Cinema Display make an appearance in August. If not, I can see it happening in October or November at a desktop focused event based with a new iLife/iWork.


Folks wanting some big dog and pony show event are likely in for deep disappointment. The personal computer market is quite mature now. There is no need for nor big impact of big dog and pony show events by single vendor. The primary product category that the Mac Pro and iMac fill have been out for over a decade. It is going to be an incremental update and it isn't some fad "this christmas is pink" trend. Trying to pin Mac releases to circus events is folly.




It would be whacked to update the upped end iMac on Lynnfield stuff when Sandy Bridge options are likely going to drop in Q4. Sure the low end could leverage some Clarkdale stuff that is already out, but that is just dual core, high GHz stuff. That isn't necessarily close to multicore workload work that is Mac Pro centered. There is not much synergy there to couple the two. If Apple did roll out the revamped Lynnfield/Clarkdale stuff they'd be sticking with that for long time after the Sandy bridge stuff went mainstream. If waiting from Aug to late Oct gets you a whole new micro arch at price point can use.... why? Just because have to release in less than 12 months? Don't make much sense from a long term perspective. If the desktop, no IGP, quad core Sandy bridge are going to be too expensive I can see it happening in Aug/Sept. , but otherwise would make more sense to update iMac on 12 month schedule that matches Intel's updates.


Displays...... Eizo , NEC , Dell, HP all seem to be proceeding with higher end displays (some with 10bits and/or 3D LUT ) without Apple's participation. The LED backlight with 27" display still seems to be something Apple hasn't completely nailed down on the iMac. Extremely unlikely, that the Mac Pro crowd would put up with that. The only primary thing Apple needs are 10bit output cards certified on the Mac Pro. The "mainstream" 27"-30" monitor at this point is just commodity play with very little upside. Even more so if going to restrict to just to single display port interfaces (or worse mini display port) .

[Topper]

Do you think it will be on the 20th?

I think we should be guessing on the year, not the date.

[DoFoT9]

I think we should be guessing on the year, not the date.
lol touche!! i reckon 2010! :D

[rmwebs]

Steve Jobs might need to go, I'm starting to agree with you on that. Because of him, Apple was saved. But now because of him, its turning into a mobile company. They need a CEO that can handle ALL of Apples products, not just portable ones.

+2

The guy has probably been told that there are signs of favouritism inside apple towards the iPhone but he's too damn stubborn to accept that he is wrong.

It's like pirates of silicon valley all over again. He's put the iToys up against the Macintosh - clearly lost all interest in macs.

He was fired for very good reason remember...

[Roman23]

I really think there is good surprises in store for those who can wait for Sandy Bridge which probably would be more sophisticated and better than anything a 2010 mac pro would offer..

I vote Sandy Bridge is when we will see a new mac pro update.. Its not worth it to goto the 980x or w3600/w5600 processors.. skip that and goto the next best thing: Sandy Bridge.

[Stevamundo]

Steve Jobs might need to go, I'm starting to agree with you on that. Because of him, Apple was saved. But now because of him, its turning into a mobile company. They need a CEO that can handle ALL of Apples products, not just portable ones.

Apple is a multibillion dollar company now. So hire enough people to handle all of their products in a reasonable time frames.

[strausd]

I think we should be guessing on the year, not the date.

Well for the 2010 Mac Pro I'm gonna guess 2010. As for a 2011 Mac Pro, I think I'll go 2011 on that, but not 100% ;)

I really think there is good surprises in store for those who can wait for Sandy Bridge which probably would be more sophisticated and better than anything a 2010 mac pro would offer..

I vote Sandy Bridge is when we will see a new mac pro update.. Its not worth it to goto the 980x or w3600/w5600 processors.. skip that and goto the next best thing: Sandy Bridge.

Newer technology being better than old? Never heard of that before...

Sandy Bridge Xeon chips wont be out til late 2011, and at this rate, probably wouldn't be put in Mac Pros til 2012. Most people won't want to wait til 2012 for that. And when that comes out, you will be able to say the same thing about a 2013 Mac Pro being better than the 2012 one, and a 2014 being better than a 2013. This is just how technology works!


Apple is a multibillion dollar company now. So hire enough people to handle all of their products in a reasonable time frames.

Considering they have such a high profit margin, it seems like Apple is kind of greedy and wants to keep as much money as possible. Sure, they could hire more people for all their products and maybe get more sales which would bring in more money, but they obviously haven't done that. I think they really need to do something to keep ALL of their products up to date. We all know how outdated the MP is, but have you ever considered the MBA? I mean come on, they try and market it as an extremely portable laptop you can take anywhere, and pretty much every other vendor who does that gives it 3G, but Apple doesn't. With the iPad, I wouldn't be surprised if they cut the whole MBA line. With the money one would spend for an MBA, you could buy an iPad and a MUCH more powerful MacBook.

[Sean Dempsey]

I just confirmed a rumor with myself that July 20th is a definite date for a speculative release of a new Mac Pro.

Let's keep this thread current with information, I am pretty sure next week is it.

[slughead]

Do you think it will be on the 20th?

It was going to happen on the 20th, but since you posted this thread, they moved it back again.

"watched pot never boils"

[Zetara22]

I just confirmed a rumor with myself that July 20th is a definite date for a speculative release of a new Mac Pro.

Let's keep this thread current with information, I am pretty sure next week is it.

What could make you so sure?

[Stevamundo]

What could make you so sure?

Wishful thinking.

[ValSalva]

Wishful thinking.

Along with the placebo effect wishful thinking can get you quite far :D

[PeterQVenkman]

+2

The guy has probably been told that there are signs of favouritism inside apple towards the iPhone but he's too damn stubborn to accept that he is wrong.

It's like pirates of silicon valley all over again. He's put the iToys up against the Macintosh - clearly lost all interest in macs.

He was fired for very good reason remember...

I can also see the similarities. Steve Jobs = Icarus in a time loop! ;)

[DeepCobalt]

I will say this: with all the bad news coming out, releasing a new product--like the refreshed Mac Pro or even a new ACD--would be welcome positive PR for Apple...

[xgman]

I will say this: with all the bad news coming out, releasing a new product--like the refreshed Mac Pro or even a new ACD--would be welcome positive PR for Apple...

They have to take off their blinders first.

[Topper]

I will say this: with all the bad news coming out, releasing a new product--like the refreshed Mac Pro or even a new ACD--would be welcome positive PR for Apple...

They don't care about our little market. They just want to get their iPhone fixed.

[Cavepainter]

Not sure if Intel is going to wait till August though to let those loose on the market. ( there is a big i7-960 price cut rumored to be coming in August. That should help open the door for a $600 six core processor. )
.


Unfortunately, Apple has absolutely no interest in passing even a penny of that savings onto their customers.

The price of hardware doesn't really matter as we won't see any real world adjustments. Apple doesn't seem to run their Mac Pro line like that. Just look at the prices of what they're offering for the Pro today.

[Sean Dempsey]

What could make you so sure?

really?

[Roman23]

Is going to happen this month at all.. given the popularity of the iphone and other itoys.. July 13th has come and gone.. and still no update.. When, however it does come out I'd like to get my hands on the firmware so that I can develop a flash bios/efi to use to flash the microcode to enable B1 based processors(gulftown,westmere) to work on a 2009.. According to Nano, the chip fits in the same socket and all is great, but it won't work unless the microcode is flashed..

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I was going to develop something similar to AWDFLASH.EXE, except it would be a .app program or something more low level possibly using windows to do it.


really?

[reel2reel]

I just confirmed a rumor with myself that July 20th is a definite date for a speculative release of a new Mac Pro.

That's enough for me at this point!

[parakiet]

i don't care anymore

need some power soon, so i'm looking for a hackintosh.

i'm willing to invest 2000 euros and sparetime :eek:

[Sean Dempsey]

They just announced that part of the press conference today will be about Mac Pro updates, and possibly a Mac Pro Nano.

[ValSalva]

They just announced that part of the press conference today will be about Mac Pro updates, and possibly a Mac Pro Nano.

This must be the same press conference that Apple will apologize for the iPhone 4 and announce a full recall :D

[Roman23]

SHOW US PROOF.. DON'T SPIT IT OUT.. SHOW IT TO US.. LINK??? URL??? STOP SPREADING CRAP THAT MAY NOT BE EVEN IN EXISTANCE.

geez..


They just announced that part of the press conference today will be about Mac Pro updates, and possibly a Mac Pro Nano.

[Icaras]

SHOW US PROOF.. DON'T SPIT IT OUT.. SHOW IT TO US.. LINK??? URL??? STOP SPREADING CRAP THAT MAY NOT BE EVEN IN EXISTANCE.

geez..


Violent rage.....it has begun....:mad::mad::mad:

[FoxyKaye]

Gave up waiting. Going to buy a refurbished 2009 model for our video workstation at work (we really need an Intel tower for some of our Final Cut workflows and After Effects) and add a better GFX card to it with the money saved. At least a refurbished model will cost what I'm actually willing to pay for a 14 month old desktop - and even then, it's probably still too much.

[deconstruct60]

Unfortunately, Apple has absolutely no interest in passing even a penny of that savings onto their customers.


What pennies?

The drop in the 960 is likely to open up space in the price range for a new Intel product. If they move in 6 cores i7's into the $500 price range there is a good chance it will be the non-ecc equivalent of the Xeon. That would mean it very good chance there will be a $500 price range for a 3640. The 3540 costs $500 now.

All of the 56xx updates got a small price bump when introduced by Intel. The 55xx didn't drop in price. Even more so the 54xx didn't drop in price. The 2-3 year old Xeons have the same list pricing over at Intel as when they were introduced. They don't crater in price over time. It seems folks keep trying to transfer what happens in mid range mini-tower PC market over to the higher end workstation market. The long term pricing changes are different.







The price of hardware doesn't really matter as we won't see any real world adjustments. Apple doesn't seem to run their Mac Pro line like that. Just look at the prices of what they're offering for the Pro today.

HP and Dell haven't put the 55xx configurations of their tower workstations (z800 and 7550 series respectively ) on some Crazy Ed firesale prices either. Sure they have some 56xx configurations but those generally come in higher than the old levels. Neither have they put there 35xx workstations on firesale price status either relative to their pricing a year ago.

[Sean Dempsey]

SHOW US PROOF.. DON'T SPIT IT OUT.. SHOW IT TO US.. LINK??? URL??? STOP SPREADING CRAP THAT MAY NOT BE EVEN IN EXISTANCE.

geez..

They scheduled a keynote for next week apparantly. I can't give you proof, all I can say is that I have a friend who works at the Genius Bar, and he said it "was a lock" on the Mac Pro updates.

[strausd]

They scheduled a keynote for next week apparantly. I can't give you proof, all I can say is that I have a friend who works at the Genius Bar, and he said it "was a lock" on the Mac Pro updates.

:D

Just hope its true. However, I don't see Apple doing a keynote for the Mac Pro. I see the 2010 Mac Pro as a silent update... Just like new MBP, MB, and Mini. They seem to only do keynotes for their iGadgets now.

[Block]

I'm betting end of August :3

[apolloa]

They scheduled a keynote for next week apparantly. I can't give you proof, all I can say is that I have a friend who works at the Genius Bar, and he said it "was a lock" on the Mac Pro updates.

If they were going to hold a keynote next week then they would have sent press invitations out by now to engadget etc but they haven't, so it would be a keynote with no press.
So I don't believe it. Sorry.

[ValSalva]

They just announced that part of the press conference today will be about Mac Pro updates, and possibly a Mac Pro Nano.

Mac Pro Nano. Very imaginative.

They scheduled a keynote for next week apparantly. I can't give you proof, all I can say is that I have a friend who works at the Genius Bar, and he said it "was a lock" on the Mac Pro updates.

Friend who works at the Genius bar. Very imaginative.

Like your first post above, your second will prove to be just as false.

[Cindori]

http://www.hardmac.com/news/2010/07/16/rumour-some-little-tidbits-on-the-macpro-and-the-imac

[Roman23]

I played the press conference yesterday on apple's website.. no mention of anything mac related, as it was all about Jobs sucking up to the customers saying how deeply sorry that the iphone 04 problems have caused.. So, right there that rumor on the french site is INVALID and never existed at all.. so I am barking at you since you are spreading FALSE LIES.. lies that are nothing but rumors..

You have no foot to stand on as the press conference quicktime movie on apple's website had nothing, ABSOLUTELY nothing mentioned about the mac pro or any other mac.. it was all about the problems associated with the iphone. Right now, Apple need to address that and I don't think Jobs at this moment is interested in mentioning the mac pro at this point given the severity of the iphone issue..

So, I stand correct, while you are wrong.. and macrumors.com should take down that bit of news because its nothing but a FANTASY as Jobs never mentioned a damn word about anything mac pro related..

My God, I am going to pass a rumor about time travel being perfected.. I saw it and I can prove it works... yep, if you believe one person you believe them all.


Violent rage.....it has begun....:mad::mad::mad:

[Roman23]

I might be your guinea pig.. I will get a 3640 or 6-core processor with B1 stepping and try it in my mac pro.. my bootrom firmware is very different from all of you.. as its B08 which I think maybe the magic firmware to support the B1 stepping of the westmere/gulftown processors. I will have to get the single one though as my mac pro is single-quad core and not dual core.


Gave up waiting. Going to buy a refurbished 2009 model for our video workstation at work (we really need an Intel tower for some of our Final Cut workflows and After Effects) and add a better GFX card to it with the money saved. At least a refurbished model will cost what I'm actually willing to pay for a 14 month old desktop - and even then, it's probably still too much.

[Roman23]

Unless he showed you proof by something actually said, I don't believe it.. ask him again and post it here so that we may all see it with our own eyes.. besides, I might have the microcode already in my system given the bootrom is quite different than all of your mac pros out there.. B08 may be an indication that I can support the B1 stepping of the gulftown/westmere processors.

I might try it..


They scheduled a keynote for next week apparantly. I can't give you proof, all I can say is that I have a friend who works at the Genius Bar, and he said it "was a lock" on the Mac Pro updates.

[Roman23]

Its going to be a silent update.. and thats it. There is really nothing signifcant about this at all to warrant a whole keynote about it.. its going to be all silent just like the addition of the w3580 for the single-quad cores in the BTO section, but frankly anyone who pays 1200.00 from a 2.66 to a 3.33 is crazy at best, as I got the w3580 for less than 600 dollars!

I might even have the capability already to run a B1 stepping processor in my mac pro as the B08 ending in my bootrom might be an indicator of this.
no proof, until I try.

And really, given this would be a silent update all one would have to do is get the microcode and flash it to the 2009 - voila! You will then be able to use westmere/gulftown.

Sandy Bridge however, is a MAJOR upgrade.. I don't see the gulftown being a really huge significant upgrade.. thats like the woodcrest getting clovertown.. but, from woodcrest and clovertown to HARPERTOWN? That was a SIGNIFICANT upgrade of the mac pro, as neither the clovertown mac pro nor the woodcrest can support Harpertown.



:D

Just hope its true. However, I don't see Apple doing a keynote for the Mac Pro. I see the 2010 Mac Pro as a silent update... Just like new MBP, MB, and Mini. They seem to only do keynotes for their iGadgets now.

[Roman23]

this is starting to sound monotonous at best.. Who knows? I might have the microcode in my firmware already and don't even know it because its different from everyone elses.


I'm betting end of August :3

[Deepshade]

With no sign of any MP CPU updates, a fantasy post on Hardmac and only hints of GPU changes which could easily be attributed to Apple wanting to keep the Steam/Valve issues at bay, I see nothing at all to say the MacPro will be upgraded or even continued.

The only thing pushing this story along is previous update cycles.

[Roman23]

Again, I know you are desparate for a new mac pro... but I wouldn't waste my time or breathe on tales that are being passed in the air without any valid proof or backup to that proof..

As I said earlier and in many posts.. and correct me if you think I am wrong.. I really think these processors are great drop in replacements for our current machines and don't warrant a totally new logic board, new box, new anything.. Suppose if one did have the microcode and passed on... this endless rumors discussion would come to a serious halt, as there is really no need for a significant overhaul of the mac pro..

I see these chips as adding a few more cores at best and maybe speeds - thats all.. nothing more, nothing less.. I just smell here not a new mac pro, but microcode needed for our machine so we can use these processors.. wouldn't you agree?


With no sign of any MP CPU updates, a fantasy post on Hardmac and only hints of GPU changes which could easily be attributed to Apple wanting to keep the Steam/Valve issues at bay, I see nothing at all to say the MacPro will be upgraded or even continued.

The only thing pushing this story along is previous update cycles.

[Deepshade]

Again, I know you are desparate for a new mac pro... but I wouldn't waste my time or breathe on tales that are being passed in the air without any valid proof or backup to that proof..

As I said earlier and in many posts.. and correct me if you think I am wrong.. I really think these processors are great drop in replacements for our current machines and don't warrant a totally new logic board, new box, new anything.. Suppose if one did have the microcode and passed on... this endless rumors discussion would come to a serious halt, as there is really no need for a significant overhaul of the mac pro..

I see these chips as adding a few more cores at best and maybe speeds - thats all.. nothing more, nothing less.. I just smell here not a new mac pro, but microcode needed for our machine so we can use these processors.. wouldn't you agree?


Totally agree.

Over the years Apple have gradually made the 'Pro' box more upgradeable not out of choice but out of necessity. Unfortunately for all they never let you see the whole picture. It is going to be the same with any Apple code. They may release the OS for everyone to purchase, but they still hang on to the essential keys the city. And that means most of us are still slaves to the temple of Apple.

Apple complain about closed development (Flash) but are complete hypocrites when it comes to user involvement with products and development.

Personally I'd like to see a fast hexcore. Don't need a new box. Firewire 800 is fast enough (find me a third party box that needs faster) USB 3 is a natural progression.Speed wise - something that hits the middle ground. Fast for those apps that don't make use of 4,8 cores, and enough cores for those that do.

[Cindori]

With no sign of any MP CPU updates, a fantasy post on Hardmac and only hints of GPU changes which could easily be attributed to Apple wanting to keep the Steam/Valve issues at bay, I see nothing at all to say the MacPro will be upgraded or even continued.


oh god, stop your b*llsh*t crying. we have fully functional 5870 drivers and semi functional GTX 480 drivers leaked. Of course a new mac pro is coming.

[Deepshade]

oh god, stop your b*llsh*t crying. we have fully functional 5870 drivers and semi functional GTX 480 drivers leaked. Of course a new mac pro is coming.

Crying - who's crying?. Just stating what's obvious at the moment.

PS - No need to stoop to childish name calling. I had great respect for your posts until this one - big disappointment.

[WardC]

Steve Jobs recently said in a reply e-mail about the matter:

"No Need to update yet. The current Mac Pro is still a very good and Powerfully efficient workstation."

So it's highly doubtful, right now. My hopes for July 13th came and went, best hope now is for maybe September or something.

[oilfighter]

Steve Jobs recently said in a reply e-mail about the matter:

"No Need to update yet. The current Mac Pro is still a very good and Powerfully efficient workstation."

So it's highly doubtful, right now. My hopes for July 13th came and went, best hope now is for maybe September or something.

A few issues with that email.

1. we don't know if it's really Steve Job (or someone from Apple)
2. The Mac Pro is still very good and powerful, can't deny that. But it is also extremely over priced. It was expensive over 500 days ago, and the price hasn't changed while individual components are now out of date, and have come down in prices. This fact makes the Mac Pro ridiculously over priced.

[Roman23]

If this is true that Steve Jobs himself said those very words, then the verdict is we are not going to see a mac pro this year.. Breaking what he said it can be summed up as follows.. I will put it in my words:

"No need to update yet" - this means the following: The 2009 series of mac pros are very powerful workstations and as thus I see no reason at this immediate time to upgrade or replace them.

"The current mac pro is still a very good and powerfully efficient workstation" - The mac pro 2009 series is the most technically advanced and most powerful systems we have created and we believe that it will see everyone who owns one into the next 1-2 years. The Nehalem is all about speed and cores, and this is what you all have - enough to get through the toughest of pro audio and video jobs.

Conclusion,

If this does happen to be the very words of Steve Jobs himself then the ink is already on the paper - no mac pro, no 2010 update, or so we have all been thinking that thus far. No indication by his statement reflects anything at all with a coming of a new platform, and furthermore if this isn't genuine from Jobs himself, then someone is starting a very very vicious cycle of rumors and pretending that the following statement, was and in fact from Job's mouth. At this point, having analyzed in my own words what he was saying, its very doubtful this was really from his mouth as the person who originally posted this didn't provide any proof nor evidence into whether or not this even happened or not.. I can easily write an email and set up another email account with sjobs@apple.com, if I so pleased in doing so, but I really don't believe, given the time and schedule that Mr. Jobs has that he would take time out of his very busy and hectic(iphone problems, and complaints) schedule and reply to someone from macrumors.com.. Very highly unlikely..

At any rate I put a question mark on the validity of the statement from steve jobs, as we have no reliable source seeing and hearing him say this.. only words on email.. and this is nothing but HERESAY..

Therefore, I firmly believe this did not come from Steve Jobs or anyone else at Apple for that matter, I think its someone who is trying to keep our hopes up, but its causing more harm than good - SO PLEASE STOP!!


Steve Jobs recently said in a reply e-mail about the matter:

"No Need to update yet. The current Mac Pro is still a very good and Powerfully efficient workstation."

So it's highly doubtful, right now. My hopes for July 13th came and went, best hope now is for maybe September or something.

[Roman23]

There is no evidence of any reliable source having been near steve jobs at the time of him saying this or recording what he said.. at any rate, the following statement is probably nothing more than heresay and someone's opinion from macrumors.com who is pretending to be Steve Jobs.. This happens all the time when rumors go around and claim its from the CEO of Apple.. I highly, VERY highly doubt that the statement below came out of Jobs' mouth - given the man has a lot of issues right now with the iphone and very unhappy customers, he has a lot on his plate at present without the need to worry about responding to someone's email from macrumors.com about when a 2010 mac pro is coming out..

In light of what we know, there is no credible evidence support this message at all.. Anyone can write anything.. any email address can be duplicated and also no one really knows the format of steve's email address, and possibly he might have many others we don't know about.

I am in agreement with those who say that this could not have possibly come from Jobs himself.. I know if I was CEO of a multi-billion dollar company, I would be inindated with my share holders constantly and never have any real break in the day and if someone were to have sent me an email from say a rumors site, I probably would have erased it and thought it was junk mail.. thats just me, but I am sure Steve Paul Jobs does not have time for any of these kinds of emails as he gets emails everyday, but we don't know what his real email address is as he might have so many.

As far as it being someone from Apple - ALSO HIGHLY UNLIKELY. No Apple executive would have the time to answer an email from a site that tries to expose his products or tries to predict any new items coming up when in fact there may not be any such new products - in this case, the 2010 mac pro.

In light of this however, I am inclined to believe that this message is not authentic and does not come from the very voice and mouth of Steve Jobs.


A few issues with that email.

1. we don't know if it's really Steve Job (or someone from Apple)
2. The Mac Pro is still very good and powerful, can't deny that. But it is also extremely over priced. It was expensive over 500 days ago, and the price hasn't changed while individual components are now out of date, and have come down in prices. This fact makes the Mac Pro ridiculously over priced.

[PaulD-UK]

If this is true that Steve Jobs himself said those very words...Hi
Google those very words. No hits...
Google the beginning of the sentence: A direct hit to an SJ reply email about the iPhone 4...

Steve Jobs has never arbirtarily capitalised mid-sentence words.

∴ the email is false.

But the message of the false email is probably spot on.

For the current creation of content for the iToys the Mac Pro is fine.
For deployment in the North Carolina Cloud Centre the MP and the XServe will do fine.
Current Apple Pro Apps software development to utilise multi-core computers is very much still work-in-progress, so more cores can wait, as they don't bring much to the party.
And since the current EOL'd ATI graphics chips are running in short supply, drivers have to be readied for when only the new chips are left in the assembly line parts bin.

[Roman23]

but, i prefer to not get involved.. this is between you and Cindori.. personally, the young man hasn't said anything bad to me and thus he and I are cool. Just because of the hint of a 5870 kext does not prove really anything at all.. as no reliable word of evidence said anything about a mac pro coming up.. No recorded source or primary source has been given citing this.. all we have are nothing but fanciful tales and fantasy based rumors with no credibility whatsoever.. It goes without saying:

100 rumors x 0 = 0 if no validity is associated with them.. therefore, at this point the matter of 57xx or 58xx series radeon drivers as kexts in the mac mini don't hold water either as no one at Apple or anywhere else is saying that even those cards are coming out from Apple..

Now, we could goto the source of who makes the radeons and ask them, but I doubt the engineers at AMD/ATI will release that information since we aren't Apple engineers.


Crying - who's crying?. Just stating what's obvious at the moment.

PS - No need to stoop to childish name calling. I had great respect for your posts until this one - big disappointment.

[Roman23]

What do you think? Heresay? I sure smell it.

You are right about the pro apps..


Hi
Google those very words. No hits...
Google the beginning of the sentence: A direct hit to an SJ reply email about the iPhone 4...

Steve Jobs has never arbirtarily capitalised mid-sentence words.

∴ the email is false.

But the message of the false email is probably spot on.

For the current creation of content for the iToys the Mac Pro is fine.
For deployment in the North Carolina Cloud Centre the MP and the XServe will do fine.
Current Apple Pro Apps software development to utilise multi-core computers is very much still work-in-progress, so more cores can wait, as they don't bring much to the party.

[Roman23]

While this may be something credible to support a new mac pro coming, it is mostly some evidence that someone may or may not come.. Again, no reliable source or word of mouth genuine has mentioned that because of these kexts that a new mac pro is coming.. we simply don't know and until someone does provide FULL 100 PERCENT supporting claims and evidence that a 2010 mac pro is really coming, at best those are all rumors and 100 rumors x 0 evidence = 0.


oh god, stop your b*llsh*t crying. we have fully functional 5870 drivers and semi functional GTX 480 drivers leaked. Of course a new mac pro is coming.

[WardC]

You can read the full thread about this "Steve Jobs e-mail" here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=959433

[Roman23]

Because there is no evidence supporting it.. it is fantasy, its fake.. it never happened.


You can read the full thread about this "Steve Jobs e-mail" here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=959433

[Cindori]

Crying - who's crying?. Just stating what's obvious at the moment.

PS - No need to stoop to childish name calling. I had great respect for your posts until this one - big disappointment.

no you're not stating what is obvious, you choose to look away from straight facts
what the heck does leaked 5000 series drivers have anything to do with Steam? You don't know what you are talking about ;)

Just because of the hint of a 5870 kext does not prove really anything at all..

There is no "hint of 5870 kext", there is FULL SUPPORT for ATI Radeon 5870, people are RUNNING THAT CARD RIGHT NOW in their OSX machines. This means ATI has written a driver for a card that they are planning to launch. They don't write drivers "for the fun of it".



meanwhile, the iPhone antenna issue has had apple, and I quote, "working their ass off for the last 22 days". This definately contributed to the already late Mac Pro release.

[deconstruct60]

Current Apple Pro Apps software development to utilise multi-core computers is very much still work-in-progress, so more cores can wait, as they don't bring much to the party.

Apple is going to hold up the Mac Pros just for their Pro apps? That's goofy. The current Pro Apps are not the most critical driving Mac Pro sales.
Any Mac Pro sold now with more cores only enables a future version of those apps. In fact if "multi core" is one of the primary features of new Pro apps then you dinimish that feature by not deploying more cores now. The value proposition for someone who already has the cores is going to be much higher than for someone who has to run out and buy a new box to get them.

The Pro Apps are late. The competitor apps can all go multicore now and run on Windows platform. Holding the cores back only entices even more folks to jump ship. That is a dubious strategy... it isn't going to raise Pro Apps sales nor Mac Pro sales.




And since the current EOL'd ATI graphics chips are running in short supply, drivers have to be readied for when only the new chips are left in the assembly line parts bin.

Just because something drops off the general market doesn't mean can't buy it. Components that are part of long term support contracts can have arrangements made so that can get parts even after stop being marketed to general public.

The new drivers are not 100% conclusive new cards being worked on to be added to the mix, but they are not 100% indicative that the they aren't either. The majority of the time new kernel support that "leaks" in a released OS is indicative of something that exists.

[Roman23]

And gives AMD credibility.. Unlike Apple, AMD is a lot nicer to deal with.. and yes, I know I see people using 5870's in the mac pros and pc's.. but this does not give any credibility to a mac pro at all coming or no evidence supporting it.. it just supports the proof that the 5870 is now a reality and can run in the mac pros..

I myself might consider this card.. but might need some help with getting it to run.. and I ask you if and when I do decide to get a 5870 flashed card, can you help me to get it to work in my 2009 mac pro?


no you're not stating what is obvious, you choose to look away from straight facts
what the heck does leaked 5000 series drivers have anything to do with Steam? You don't know what you are talking about ;)



There is no "hint of 5870 kext", there is FULL SUPPORT for ATI Radeon 5870, people are RUNNING THAT CARD RIGHT NOW in their OSX machines. This means ATI has written a driver for a card that they are planning to launch. They don't write drivers "for the fun of it".



meanwhile, the iPhone antenna issue has had apple, and I quote, "working their ass off for the last 22 days". This definately contributed to the already late Mac Pro release.

[Hellhammer]

And gives AMD credibility.. Unlike Apple, AMD is a lot nicer to deal with.. and yes, I know I see people using 5870's in the mac pros and pc's.. but this does not give any credibility to a mac pro at all coming or no evidence supporting it.. it just supports the proof that the 5870 is now a reality and can run in the mac pros..

I myself might consider this card.. but might need some help with getting it to run.. and I ask you if and when I do decide to get a 5870 flashed card, can you help me to get it to work in my 2009 mac pro?

Like Cindori said, drivers are not written just for fun. Apple doesn't include them in OS X so people can buy 3rd party cards and use them. They include them so they can release a product that uses them. AMD wrote them because Apple asked for 5870.

There doesn't have to be rumors for an update to be true. Mini had zero piece of news or evidence but it still came. Mac Pro will come, no matter are there rumors saying it is coming or not.

[Cindori]

you can't flash without EFIROM


Like Cindori said, drivers are not written just for fun. Apple doesn't include them in OS X so people can buy 3rd party cards and use them. They include them so they can release a product that uses them. AMD wrote them because Apple asked for 5870.

There doesn't have to be rumors for an update to be true. Mini had zero piece of news or evidence but it still came. Mac Pro will come, no matter are there rumors saying it is coming or not.

finally, a sane person

[apolloa]

With no sign of any MP CPU updates, a fantasy post on Hardmac and only hints of GPU changes which could easily be attributed to Apple wanting to keep the Steam/Valve issues at bay, I see nothing at all to say the MacPro will be upgraded or even continued.

The only thing pushing this story along is previous update cycles.

New GPU's have nothing to do with the whole Steam\ Valve issue, they have already said it's down to the drivers which are basically rubbish. After the last Snow Leopard update pretty much everyone has experienced performance loss in games.

I think you will also see updates to the imac and the Mac Pro on the same day just like they did before.

[Roman23]

The MINI is a consumer based machine.. and plus holds more support than the mac pro does.. more people would buy the mini as its part of Apple's consumer line and not the pro line..

Cindori: I am very sane my friend.. remember you deal with me? You wouldn't make fun of me and I won't make fun of you... got it?

I am not stupid.. I damn well know that if there are new video kexts there that Apple or someone in engineering at Apple requested them.. but what I am saying is it doesn't answer any validity to a coming mac pro.. a coming video card, YES.... of course..

And yes, when the true 5870 Apple card comes out, I will buy it of course.. though I think it will not be as powerful as the pc flashed cards which offer 1.5-2GB of GDDR5 or higher memory.


Like Cindori said, drivers are not written just for fun. Apple doesn't include them in OS X so people can buy 3rd party cards and use them. They include them so they can release a product that uses them. AMD wrote them because Apple asked for 5870.

There doesn't have to be rumors for an update to be true. Mini had zero piece of news or evidence but it still came. Mac Pro will come, no matter are there rumors saying it is coming or not.

[Deepshade]

New GPU's have nothing to do with the whole Steam\ Valve issue, they have already said it's down to the drivers which are basically rubbish. After the last Snow Leopard update pretty much everyone has experienced performance loss in games.

I think you will also see updates to the imac and the Mac Pro on the same day just like they did before.

Happy to take on board any info. Shame it can't be imparted by all in an adult manner.

[deconstruct60]

If this is true that Steve Jobs himself said those very words, then the verdict is we are not going to see a mac pro this year.. Breaking what he said it can be summed up as follows.. I will put it in my words:

"No need to update yet" - this means the following: The 2009 series of mac pros are very powerful workstations and as thus I see no reason at this immediate time to upgrade or replace them.


How do you leap from that liberal rewriting to "no Mac Pro this year". The text clearly puts a stamp on the need on immediate ("right now" ) timeframe when written. It says jack squat about the future and says only something about that particular point in time.

I have doubts whether that email is legit also, but it is says nothing about the rest of this year. If it was sent in November might have some weight but about half of the calendar is still left.


Additionally, even if it is Jobs he is not going to throw Intel under the bus or reveal any of Intel's secret information. Nor is he going to put even hint of a target date on an update. So if Apple is waiting on some part before updating the whole Mac Pro line up then they are not in desperate need of updating. Which is true.


If you go to the HP , Dell , etc websites you'll see that 55xx and 35xx workstations are still being sold. They haven't been yanked from the market as "old tech not worth buying anymore". Neither have they had their prices dropped significant from what there were this time last year. (minus whatever checkout coupon Dell want to throw on top. )




Conclusion,


There is no conclusion here. You are basically presupposing the conclusion. It is written in premise-> conclusion format but just spinning smoke to give appearance of having substance.

[Hellhammer]

The MINI is a consumer based machine.. and plus holds more support than the mac pro does.. more people would buy the mini as its part of Apple's consumer line and not the pro line..

Cindori: I am very sane my friend.. remember you deal with me? You wouldn't make fun of me and I won't make fun of you... got it?

I am not stupid.. I damn well know that if there are new video kexts there that Apple or someone in engineering at Apple requested them.. but what I am saying is it doesn't answer any validity to a coming mac pro.. a coming video card, YES.... of course..

And yes, when the true 5870 Apple card comes out, I will buy it of course.. though I think it will not be as powerful as the pc flashed cards which offer 1.5-2GB of GDDR5 or higher memory.

Mini was nearly two years without an update but now it has gotten more love from Apple than any other Mac. I meant there doesn't have to be reliable rumors so it can become true.

When was the last time Apple released new GPUs but not new Mac Pro? Apple doesn't do such updates. If they did, we would see new GPUs when they are released, not when they are at the end of their cycle like 5xxx is now (Southern Islands is due in early 2011).

[Roman23]

Although, the Mac Mini has also been neglected for some time, it just recently got an update, silent though and only posted on the apple website and store. The reason it got an update and the mac pro didn't is because Apple sells a lot more of the consumer based macs which are as follows:

Macbook, Macbook Pro, Mac Mini, and Imac..

There isn't a real huge demand for the pro-market based machines, those being the mac pro and the xserve.. However, if what we are seeing is silence in terms of the mac pro then there has to be a reason.. and we don't know for sure what that reason could be. ANd no fake rumors are going to validate any truth to it either.. Only Apple knows and no one at Apple is at liberty to say openly whether or not a new mac pro is coming... the email from steve jobs, IF IT IS REAL, says it all - it isn't coming, not now.. not later, but maybe sometime down the road.. given November or December possibly - Again, I am speculating here.. And the arrival of some new video kexts is also no proof of the upcoming mac pro either..

I applaud Apple for getting the 5870 kexts however I am sure the 5870 when it comes out in Apple OEM format is going to be much more expensive and less powerful than its PC brothers.. we who are gamers know far too well that the pc cards offer more power and efficient framrates than anything Apple has come out with..

So, its no wonder then that the Mini did get an update as its one of the consumer based macs apart of Apple being the "itoys" company which is promoting itself far more for the consumer than the pro-user or business. This is a trend that is only going to get larger and larger.. yes, I am sure that a mac pro update will come, but given the fact that the westmere/gulftown really look like enhanced Nehalems(or nehalem-ex) to offer us a bit more processing power, they are at best - UPGRADES for our machine, and don't constitute or warrant any new mac pro box or new logic board at all..

I have said this many times.. and I hold my truth to all of this. Yes, it would be nice if the B1 stepping processors by themselves would work in our 2009 mac pros.. to a PC enthusiast, this is very easy as all one has to do is download the appropriate bios update(if the board doesn't already support it) and flash - drop in the new processor and its done..

But for us, we have to spend 1000's of dollars more on a whole new apparatus which really shouldn't be. At best these excellent processors are nothing more than upgrades and socket for socket they fit nicely!

If anything the 2009 mac pro would then just be called a 2009 Mac Pro deluxe with the capability of using the w36xx/x56xx processors.

But going back to the mini... now, had the mini been a pro-market based system, then the probability of it being updated would have been near nil as it seems Apple is more into the end consumer these days than the pro user..

Sad but true.. Apple, Inc is not the same Apple we all knew and loved during the PowerPC era, it is a new child with the aim of satisfying far more its consumer clients and leaving behind or pushing by the waist-side its business clients and pro-users.

[strausd]

Roman, you do know you can go back and edit a post after you already submitted it right? You don't have to do 5 posts right after each other...

We still have no idea when the MP will be updated, but I am leaning towards September. Some people will shoot down the rumor that just came out because theres no real "proof" but there is hardly ever any real proof with anything Apple. And there was nothing about the mini before it was updated.

I think it is definitely coming in a month or two not only from the recent rumor, but also the new GPU driver findings. Like someone on here already said, why would Apple release new GPUs for a computer that hasn't been updated in over 500 days?

[Roman23]

I was just stating that given the fact that there is no credible evidence to the letter, I firmly believe that it did NOT come from Steve Jobs or anyone else at Apple..

I am not presupposing anything... please read clearly what I wrote and you will see I am not presupposing anything.. you know my take on the whole westmere/gulftown processors - they are at best... a NICE UPGRADE to our systems currently.. they don't warrant a whole new box and new apparatus as their enhancements are not that significant.



How do you leap from that liberal rewriting to "no Mac Pro this year". The text clearly puts a stamp on the need on immediate ("right now" ) timeframe when written. It says jack squat about the future and says only something about that particular point in time.

I have doubts whether that email is legit also, but it is says nothing about the rest of this year. If it was sent in November might have some weight but about half of the calendar is still left.


Additionally, even if it is Jobs he is not going to throw Intel under the bus or reveal any of Intel's secret information. Nor is he going to put even hint of a target date on an update. So if Apple is waiting on some part before updating the whole Mac Pro line up then they are not in desperate need of updating. Which is true.


If you go to the HP , Dell , etc websites you'll see that 55xx and 35xx workstations are still being sold. They haven't been yanked from the market as "old tech not worth buying anymore". Neither have they had their prices dropped significant from what there were this time last year. (minus whatever checkout coupon Dell want to throw on top. )





There is no conclusion here. You are basically presupposing the conclusion. It is written in premise-> conclusion format but just spinning smoke to give appearance of having substance.

[deconstruct60]

I am not stupid.. I damn well know that if there are new video kexts there that Apple or someone in engineering at Apple requested them.. but what I am saying is it doesn't answer any validity to a coming mac pro.. a coming video card, YES.... of course..

A dubious conclusion to propose. The primary market for Mac video cards is new Mac Pros. There is no large after market for Mac Pro video cards. Proof? How many vendors do you see participating? There are the exactly two cards that aren't part of some CTO option. Compare that to the Windows PC market.... what comparative ratio would that be? Pretty small.

Second, if it is a 3rd party, non CTO card why would the software be in Apple software build tree for Mac OS X 10.6.4 ? The reasons why some tidbits leak in new OS drops is that the code being worked on and tested gets entangled with the code being dropped for release. The Mac mini has no ATI graphics in any configuration. If a Mac Pro were to be released in July/Aug/Sept it would definitely be in the later testing phases at this point.
That increases the likelihood that some of the code tree for that OS update will get merged into the latest production build either by accident or because it is a bigger pain to separate it out.

[Roman23]

so far all we have is empty rumors with no valid proof or primary sources pointing to the arrival of a mac pro for 2010... nothing at all, as its all based on speculation.. Until Apple or someone at Apple leaks by accident that a new mac pro is coming and its from APPLE, INC and not from some kid or someone on here trying to incite, then I will believe it when I see it..

until then... yes, a mac pro may/may not come.. I am not going to say it will for sure because like you, I don't know myself. But given that if we could use those processors in our machines, then there wouldn't be a need for a whole new mac pro workstation.


How do you leap from that liberal rewriting to "no Mac Pro this year". The text clearly puts a stamp on the need on immediate ("right now" ) timeframe when written. It says jack squat about the future and says only something about that particular point in time.

I have doubts whether that email is legit also, but it is says nothing about the rest of this year. If it was sent in November might have some weight but about half of the calendar is still left.


Additionally, even if it is Jobs he is not going to throw Intel under the bus or reveal any of Intel's secret information. Nor is he going to put even hint of a target date on an update. So if Apple is waiting on some part before updating the whole Mac Pro line up then they are not in desperate need of updating. Which is true.


If you go to the HP , Dell , etc websites you'll see that 55xx and 35xx workstations are still being sold. They haven't been yanked from the market as "old tech not worth buying anymore". Neither have they had their prices dropped significant from what there were this time last year. (minus whatever checkout coupon Dell want to throw on top. )





There is no conclusion here. You are basically presupposing the conclusion. It is written in premise-> conclusion format but just spinning smoke to give appearance of having substance.

[Roman23]

Then let it be September.. then what? What if it still isn't out? I hear what you are saying.. the arrival of new 5870 video kexts(I don't have them on my version of snow leopard) may mean a 2010 mac pro is in the works.. but again, we don't know for sure..

I will put a wager for September that there will be a mac pro, ok?


Roman, you do know you can go back and edit a post after you already submitted it right? You don't have to do 5 posts right after each other...

We still have no idea when the MP will be updated, but I am leaning towards September. Some people will shoot down the rumor that just came out because theres no real "proof" but there is hardly ever any real proof with anything Apple. And there was nothing about the mini before it was updated.

I think it is definitely coming in a month or two not only from the recent rumor, but also the new GPU driver findings. Like someone on here already said, why would Apple release new GPUs for a computer that hasn't been updated in over 500 days?

[strausd]

Of course we don't know for sure, we never know anything for sure with Apple! Everything that comes out is a rumor, just that. That is why this site is named macRUMORS!! And whatever someone on the forums said is just speculation or a guess. Even if Steve Jobs said that it would come out on a certain day, thats not for sure either, there is still a chance something could go wrong and it get delayed.

And it seems like your obsessed with saying that nothing is credible and that there is no proof for anything. I'm pretty sure people know what the words rumor and speculation mean.

[deconstruct60]

I was just stating that given the fact that there is no credible evidence to the letter, I firmly believe that it did NOT come from Steve Jobs or anyone else at Apple..

That's even more dubious. Apple's corporate policy is to not talk about future products and future release dates. What does that quote do? It does exactly that. It does a redirect to paint the current product in a positive light and says nothing about the future.

Since Apple's policies are well know the content of that email message say nothing about whether it is valid or in valid. It doesn't mean anything. Remote proof would be an exact email routing header that looked creditable and particular word usage and phrases utilized by the Jobs email answering infrastructure.


you know my take on the whole westmere/gulftown processors - they are at best... a NICE UPGRADE to our systems currently.. they don't warrant a whole new box and new apparatus as their enhancements are not that significant.

Yet another wild leap in logic. None of that (whole new box, new apparatus) is in the attributed Jobs quote. Apple isn't going to radically change the box much .... wow... and the sky is blue. They haven't radically changed the box much in years. Only the folks on this forum playing "If I was Steve I'd design a Mac Pro this way" are proposing radical changes to the appearance of the Mac Pro. Likewise Westmere is designed to not require radical changes to the internal board. However, they have to be shipping to plug into the socket that hasn't changed year over year.

If Intel ships the full line up of Westmere and Apple doesn't ship a Mac Pro then there would be some support for "doom and gloom" about no Mac Pros the rest of the year. As long as Intel does not ship all the parts Apple needs for what they have historically presented as the full Mac Pro line up you can't drawn definate conclusions one way or other that going to be not shipping for rest of the year.

As for them being so insignificant can be skipped. Bunk! Every vendor who ships a "broad as possible" line up has thrown them into their product mix. All of these CPU upgrades are incremental. Sandy Bridge will be incremental too. CPU updates are a necessary, but not sufficient, element of Mac updates. The only way Apple would skip one is if the system design just updated (so can't do a whole line up refresh ) and there was yet another CPU update before the next freshed or that the CPU was inappropriate for the system design. If there were a full 36xx line up to match the 56xx line up of components the would be a increased value prop for the whole Mac Pro line up.

[Hellhammer]

Although, the Mac Mini has also been neglected for some time, it just recently got an update, silent though and only posted on the apple website and store. The reason it got an update and the mac pro didn't is because Apple sells a lot more of the consumer based macs which are as follows:

But Mac Pro makes a lot more profit per unit than Mini does. You don't have any sales figures backing up your statement. Who knows, maybe Mac Pro sells more than Mini because many people jump for the iMac instead and Mac Pro has some serious market among pros

There isn't a real huge demand for the pro-market based machines, those being the mac pro and the xserve.. However, if what we are seeing is silence in terms of the mac pro then there has to be a reason.. and we don't know for sure what that reason could be. ANd no fake rumors are going to validate any truth to it either.. Only Apple knows and no one at Apple is at liberty to say openly whether or not a new mac pro is coming... the email from steve jobs, IF IT IS REAL, says it all - it isn't coming, not now.. not later, but maybe sometime down the road.. given November or December possibly - Again, I am speculating here.. And the arrival of some new video kexts is also no proof of the upcoming mac pro either..

Why would Steve tell us that there is a new one coming? That would hurt the sales of the current one.

I applaud Apple for getting the 5870 kexts however I am sure the 5870 when it comes out in Apple OEM format is going to be much more expensive and less powerful than its PC brothers.. we who are gamers know far too well that the pc cards offer more power and efficient framrates than anything Apple has come out with..

The GPU is the same. The amount of VRAM might be different but there are 1GB 5870s available as well and the VRAM isn't that important anyway unless you are driving dual monitors or one with insane resolution. It's not going to be worse than PC cards with similar specs. Drivers under OS X may suck but that's normal

If anything the 2009 mac pro would then just be called a 2009 Mac Pro deluxe with the capability of using the w36xx/x56xx processors.

Most Macs used the C2Ds for almost 3 years. If 2007 iMac has C2D and 2009 iMac has C2D, what would you call the 2009 iMac? iMac 2007 SuperHyperUltimateExtremeDeluxe? :p

New CPUs and GPUs are already enough so it can be called an update. Intel's tick-tock goes like that. Die shrink doesn't need a new socket. Apple wants to sell those Westmere behemoths thus they aren't releasing a FW for 2009 Mac Pros which would allow Westmere to be used, it's business. There is no guarantee that you will be able to flash the EFI and gain the possibility of using Westmere in 2009 Mac Pro, that's just hoping.

UPGRADES for our machine, and don't constitute or warrant any new mac pro box or new logic board at all..

Did I ever mention a new box or logic board? For years, a simple CPU&GPU update has been enough to get "update" tag on it. There doesn't have to be major overhaul everytime. Westmere and ATI 5870 is what people wants. Everything else is more or less irrelevant.

[apolloa]

Happy to take on board any info. Shame it can't be imparted by all in an adult manner.

No problem. Of course better GPU's will be faster, but when you think how old HL2 is now even my MB Pro lags playing it, and with the hardware I have I fully expect to play HL2 fine. Their's a thread on the Steam forums about the last update and the effects it's had on performance.
With a bit of luck Apple will make some decent drivers like you get in Windows.

[deconstruct60]

so far all we have is empty rumors with no valid proof or primary sources pointing to the arrival of a mac pro for 2010... nothing at all, as its all based on speculation.. Until Apple or someone at Apple leaks by accident that a new mac pro is coming and its from APPLE, INC and not from some kid or someone on here trying to incite, then I will believe it when I see it..

This is hypocritical. You want to infer the negative ("Apple isn't going to ship for rest of the year" ) on no verified statement from Apple. If want the criteria hurdle to be something directly then fine. But that means you can conclude nothing until you get it. Neither the positive (there will be an update) or the negative (there will be no update).




until then... yes, a mac pro may/may not come.. I am not going to say it will


But you've repeatitively promoted the position that it isn't. If want to now convert to don't know than fine.



for sure because like you, I don't know myself. But given that if we could use those processors in our machines, then there wouldn't be a need for a whole new mac pro workstation.

While Apple may not officially commit to dates nor "proactively leak" about Macs into the web ( like they do with the iPhone ), that doesn't mean their behaviour is beyond being predictable. There will be probabiliites associated with it, but the general timeframe when it would not be surprising to get an update is generally known. This Sept/Oct there will be iPod updates. Next June/July there will be iPhone update. Most likely next Feb/March/April there will an iPad update.

If Intel falls into a 12 month update cycle on the processors used in the Mac products Apple will probably align their cycles to that more predicatble regularity also. The current Xeon update full schedule is a bit jacked up now so the Mac Pro (and XServe ) are jacked up. Not particularly suprising other than fact Intel let it drift so far like this. However, does make sense if Intel is trying to move the update time to a different part of the year.

Many of these product development cycles are longer than 12 months so it really didn't help improve quality or control costs to run multiyear updates anyway. Dropping frantic updates multiple times a year doesn't really add customer value over the long term.

[deconstruct60]

Although, the Mac Mini has also been neglected for some time, it just recently got an update, silent though and only posted on the apple website and store. The reason it got an update and the mac pro didn't is because Apple sells a lot more of the consumer based macs which are as follows:


The timing of the Mac mini update was due in part because the 320m didn't come up till this spring. Same factor contributing to why the MBP and Macbook didn't drop until after the 320m hit the market even though the CPU updates were somewhat available in quantity.

The whole Apple cares more about products largely in reverse order of unit numbers is largely speculative hype.

The White iPhone 4 isn't shipping right now either. Is that because Apple cares more about the Black iPhones than the White ones ? Or there is some problem with the components that go into the White phone? Or they just don't get book enough capacity ?



Sad but true.. Apple, Inc is not the same Apple we all knew and loved during the PowerPC era, it is a new child with the aim of satisfying far more its consumer clients and leaving behind or pushing by the waist-side its business clients and pro-users.

This is one of those "facts" that folks keep marketing here in these forums but repeating it over and over again with the hopes that if folks read it enough times it will stick. While Apple is doing more things that doesn't mean things have completely dropped off the list. Additionally, folks seem to want to turn this into sibling rivalry complex ( Steve got on stage with the iPhone, but not with the Mac Pro .... booo hoooo )


Obviously, Mac are a more mature market. Generally PCs have been around for 3 decades and Mac for a large fraction of that. The number of folks for which a personal computer is a new and magical device is growing smaller worldwide and is already at very small fractions in the most developed countries.

Apple is in a much more stable state because they don't "have to" grab share away from Windows PC systems as the primary mechanism to achieve growth. As long as Apple's growth rate approximately matches the overall PC market growth they are healthy.

So for the Mac Pro market to be healthy the real question is not if Apple is giving "dog and pony" circus shows around each product introduction. That's superfluous bull manure in the context of selling into a mature market. The question is whether the user base is growing. That is the key critical element of growth.

I'm not extremely sure which way the Mac Pro market is going. A huge fraction of the noise and complaints in this forum are about products Apple doesn't make, but dumped here because this is the closest match. Complete folly to make any judgments on much of what is presented here. There is certainly some migration of users onto the next lower class offering. That's is normal. Some users workload won't increase as computer power gets pushed into lower level offerings.

The growth will only come from folks who have ever bigger problems that need to be solved. New folks with those problems and current users who have problem growth. If Apple doesn't see those then that will put the Mac Pro on thin ice.

Note these are not the "I wanted a mini-tower but I'll buy a Mac Pro anyway" , "I only want to buy a computer every 6-9 years so I'm going to buy max future proof", or "I have always bought this form factor so will buy it again because upright rectangular, headless boxes are best". If that's a 30-40+% of the Mac Pro market then it is doomed. All of those represent value prop mismatches between what the Mac Pro primarily offers and what the users want.

[deconstruct60]

:D
Just hope its true. However, I don't see Apple doing a keynote for the Mac Pro. I see the 2010 Mac Pro as a silent update... Just like new MBP, MB, and Mini. They seem to only do keynotes for their iGadgets now.

Silent and keynotes are two radically different things.

The MPB and Mini got a press release. That is not silent.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/06/15macmini.html

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/04/13mbp.html

Right now the "hot news" pages has some links to very good reviews that the Mac mini got. I'm sure they will fade from that page over time. To propose that Apple isn't devoted coverage resources to the Mac line is farcically incorrect.



The Macbook got released with no press release. That is a silent release.

Mac Pro users sulking because there was no associated media hype event is ridiculous and completely non productive.

[Icaras]

Silent and keynotes are two radically different things.

The MPB and Mini got a press release. That is not silent.

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/06/15macmini.html

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/04/13mbp.html

Right now the "hot news" pages has some links to very good reviews that the Mac mini got. I'm sure they will fade from that page over time. To propose that Apple isn't devoted coverage resources to the Mac line is farcically incorrect.



The Macbook got released with no press release. That is a silent release.

Mac Pro users sulking because there was no associated media hype event is ridiculous and completely non productive.

Agreed with all points. Only the Macbook got the real silent treatment. The store didn't even go down for it. They simply fidgeted the spec numbers and added the "new" icon. But you're right, no "News" updated on Apple's site.

[Sean Dempsey]

imo:

[DoFoT9]

But Mac Pro makes a lot more profit per unit than Mini does. You don't have any sales figures backing up your statement. Who knows, maybe Mac Pro sells more than Mini because many people jump for the iMac instead and Mac Pro has some serious market among pros
given the new Mac Mini - i think its safe to assume that even though the MP makes more profit per machine, then MM would sell more. probably to the extent that it makes more profit for apple then the MP does - based on pure amount of units sold.

imo:

*pencils in* get some details from him ;)

[johnnymg]

Do you think it will be on the 20th?

Not a chance in Hell ................................ but perhaps the following Tuesday, or the one following that, or the .................... :p

Apple's earnings call (for just ended third quarter) is on July 20 so "No MP for you!": http://www.apple.com/investor/

Not to beat a dead horse too much more but the itoy haters need to wake up and smell the refried beans: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/06/24/what-the-iphone-means-to-apple/

cheers to the longs
JohnG

[deconstruct60]

Not to beat a dead horse too much more but the itoy haters need to wake up and smell the refried beans: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/06/24/what-the-iphone-means-to-apple/


Who cares if the blogger analyst regularly beats wall street's estimate numbers. Are they accurate is what matters. Sheesh.

That chart is whacked or mislabeled. I suspect they are putting iPod Touch sales into the iPhone revenue bracket. Touches may or may not outsell iPhones but it isn't that many fewer if they are suppose to be in the iPod bracket. If thrown into the iPhone bracket it is misleading it isn't iPhone sales that is driving that. Also over time the iPod Touch should replace the earlier versions of the iPod .... it is an iPod. Eventually the iPod Classic will disappear.

That the iPhone is growing faster than the Mac ... well duh. It is a product that has been around about 2 less decades. The Mac market has growth also, just not as high.

Apple is also on the hook for probably around 4-6 million bumpers cases too. Revenues isn't the final story, it is profits.

[mrsir2009]

When was the last Mac Pro update? 2006?

[Block]

When was the last Mac Pro update? 2006?

March 2009 IIRC

[Hellhammer]

March 2009 IIRC

Yeah, March 3, 2009. Apple also added 3.33GHz quad and 2TB HDs as BTO options in December 4, 2009.

[Icaras]

Yeah, March 3, 2009. Apple also added 3.33GHz quad and 2TB HDs as BTO options in December 4, 2009.

Interesting. So 9 months since a small update. Another 9 months from December would be August. :D

[Ravich]

Interesting. So 9 months since a small update. Another 9 months from December would be August. :D
Yes, however December is the 12th month and March is the 3rd month so if you multiply 3 by 12, you get 36, and then if you divide that by the difference in months between those two, you get 4, so the Mac Pro is due for an update in the fourth quarter of 2010.

[telequest]

For the first time since I've been checking on a regular basis (early this year), there are currently no refurb Mac Pros available in Apple's U.S. online store.

I have no idea if this indicates anything about the likelihood of an update soon. It may just be that buyers are snapping them up faster than usual as the full-price new boxes get longer in the tooth.

If I had to buy a Mac Pro today, I'd more than likely go for a refurb, and I suspect there are plenty others who would do the same.

Still, I've not seen zero refurbs there in the last 6 months.

[Hellhammer]

For the first time since I've been checking on a regular basis (early this year), there are currently no refurb Mac Pros available in Apple's U.S. online store.

I have no idea if this indicates anything about the likelihood of an update soon. It may just be that buyers are snapping them up faster than usual as the full-price new boxes get longer in the tooth.

If I had to buy a Mac Pro today, I'd more than likely go for a refurb, and I suspect there are plenty others who would do the same.

Still, I've not seen zero refurbs there in the last 6 months.

Refurb.Me (http://www.refurb.me/index.php) says there were Mac Pros available 3 days ago but looks like they go pretty fast

[telequest]

Refurb.Me (http://www.refurb.me/index.php) says there were Mac Pros available 3 days ago but looks like they go pretty fast

Wow, excellent site for tracking refurbs. Thanks for the heads up.

It verifies my impression ... the number of Mac Pro refurb models available over the past week or so has been dwindling down to nothing. Again, possibly signifying nothing, and come tomorrow, there might be plenty.

[dgookin]

You guys sound like date-setters for the rapture.

Granted, I've put off my next Mac Pro purchase because of this site. It's always good to keep abreast of Apple product releases because the timing is traditionally that you (meaning everyone) buys a new Apple product and then two weeks later they come out with a bigger, better, cheaper version. No one wants to be behind that curve. So we wait.

Like the date-setters, there is a certain excitement about saying, "Next Tuesday." But seriously, it happens when it happens if it ever happens. For no one knows the date or time of the Mac Pro's return, not the developers or the engineers, but only St. Jobs in Heaven.

[strausd]

It's always good to keep abreast of Apple product releases because the timing is traditionally that you (meaning everyone) buys a new Apple product and then two weeks later they come out with a bigger, better, cheaper version.

Bigger and better maybe, but generally not cheaper ;)

[telequest]

You guys sound like date-setters for the rapture.

Granted, I've put off my next Mac Pro purchase because of this site. It's always good to keep abreast of Apple product releases because the timing is traditionally that you (meaning everyone) buys a new Apple product and then two weeks later they come out with a bigger, better, cheaper version. No one wants to be behind that curve. So we wait.

Like the date-setters, there is a certain excitement about saying, "Next Tuesday." But seriously, it happens when it happens if it ever happens. For no one knows the date or time of the Mac Pro's return, not the developers or the engineers, but only St. Jobs in Heaven.

Lacking any other evidence, finding mere straws, we grasp at them.

I've stopped being excited by any upcoming Tuesday, or any rumor. Just killin' time on threads like this one. Current lack of refurbs is as substantial (i.e. as meaningless) evidence as anything else. After this coming Tuesday, will not be able to resist following the next thread offering speculation on why it'll for sure arrive on July 27th. And then August 3rd. Ad infinitum ad nauseum.

Misery loves company, which is why I enjoy hanging out here. :D

[mism]

I'm so tired of it all I've decided that refresh or not I'm ordering a Mac Pro on Tuesday. I'm not happy about it but I'm sick of playing the waiting game.

[Sean Dempsey]

Tomorrow is the day!!!!

[ValSalva]

Tomorrow is the day!!!!

I sure hope so but then there's always July 27th, August 3rd, August 10th...

[strausd]

Tomorrow is the day!!!!

Personally, I don't think so. They are gonna announce their Q3 financial results tomorrow. I don't think they would release a new Mac Pro the same day :(

[dimensional]

May 2011.

[Topper]

May 2011.

That's close. Approximately when Sandy Bridge will be released.
.

[Roman23]

No primary sources to back up anything.. I would just wait and take with a grain of salt, and don't listen to insiders. as most of them FABRICATE crap.


september seems to be most likely. several "insiders" on this forum (without any reliable source) said it would take that long and after today... i beleive them.

[WardC]

For the first time since I've been checking on a regular basis (early this year), there are currently no refurb Mac Pros available in Apple's U.S. online store.

I have no idea if this indicates anything about the likelihood of an update soon. It may just be that buyers are snapping them up faster than usual as the full-price new boxes get longer in the tooth.

If I had to buy a Mac Pro today, I'd more than likely go for a refurb, and I suspect there are plenty others who would do the same.

Still, I've not seen zero refurbs there in the last 6 months.

5 refurbs went up this morning on the Apple Store Online site. The $4999 8-core 2.93GHz one went first...then I purchased the 2.93GHz QuadCore base config. There are two left right now, the other 3 are gone. There is a 2.66GHz one (base config) and a 2.93GHz with 6GB RAM, Radeon 4870, 1TB HD, and 2 SuperDrives. Check the site here:

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/mac_pro

[Topper]

Don't believe anyone!

Aw, now my feelings are hurt. I'm reliable. I don't know anything but I am reliable.

[Roman23]

I prefer to go by reliable resources and not open air.


Aw, now my feelings are hurt. I'm reliable. I don't know anything but I am reliable.

[dgookin]

Don't believe anyone

I don't believe you!

[Roman23]

I haven't called my friend who works at the Towson Apple Store as a Genius and store manager.. He has information which he will provide for me and I will get it here as soon as I have a chance.. Ouch!! my aching sunburn! :) SOmeone give me some aloe?


I don't believe you!

[WardC]

Ouch!! my aching sunburn! :) SOmeone give me some aloe?

Are you sure that's not radiation coming from your W3580 :eek:

[Roman23]

Swimming in the Ocean without sun screen.. Although I wore a pair of jeans and a black t-shirt(common to mis conception, there is nothing wrong with swimming in clothes - see www.swimmingfullyclothed.com).. at least my legs didn't get burned, but my neck, face, eyes, head... back - all got sun burned!


Are you sure that's not radiation coming from your W3580 :eek:

[Alexs45]

People, look at the history of releases...there is no chance they are going to release anything before the "Back to School" promotion ends. They always use the promotion to clear stock and then release a new model...I saw late September or October.

[mism]

common to mis conception, there is nothing wrong with swimming in clothes - see www.swimmingfullyclothed.com)

I am: confused / amused / very scared…

[Roman23]

nothing wrong with it.. in fact with the sun getting ever closer to the Earth and the UV rays getting much stronger, many people are turning to this type of attire for going swimming..

In Europe, eastern Europe, esp Germany, they do this a lot.. in fact most of the youtube movies on that website come out of Germany and Europe.. Only America its considered strange and exotic..

Try it sometime.. goto a pool party in jeans, sandles and a t-shirt.. horseplay around the pool with your friends - plop! Its fun. This is how I got started with it. I remember that day back in High school..

I was 18 at the time.. summer of 1990.. went to a friend's house to help him with his computer.. dressed in a red shirt and jeans.. he then shows me his outdoor pool.. and from behind he pushes my butt in :)

Believe me.. we all need a break from the mac pro and to talk about something else to get our minds off of it..

Anyway, New Mac Pro coming in September ok?


I am: confused / amused / very scared…

[you39]

In Europe, eastern Europe, esp Germany, they do this a lot.. in fact most of the youtube movies on that website come out of Germany and Europe.. Only America its considered strange and exotic..

Ahem... a) Germany is not in Eastern Europe... and b) swimming fully clothed is just as unusual in Germany as it is anyplace else. Except in Iran... perhaps... or in the 19th century... ;)

[deconstruct60]

... before the "Back to School" promotion ends. They always use the promotion to clear stock and then release a new model..

For the last couple of years the stock they are clearing is iPods !! Not Macs. In part, that's because it is fairly widely known that new iPods will arrive in Sept/Oct time frame ahead of the Christmas season.

That's the downside of locking in a very narrow fixed time to do updates every year. What tends to happen is that it gets used as leverage to reduce prices.

The bundled free iPod is also being used to offset the generally higher than average Windows PC selling price in the lower half of the pricing spectrum for education folks whose budgets probably don't have much give. If dropping $2000+ on a school computer the delta of an iPod isn't going to a big difference. iPod's are to get folks to stretch over $1000, not $2000, for a box.

Sadly no Xeon 3600 updates from Intel today. A new ECC-less, i7 970 introduced, but it dropped at $899, so perhaps in some movement later in the single quad core package offering. Intel retired a pretty big chunk of the Xeon 5400 line up. Not sure if that frees up more resources to finish flushing out the 3600 series or not. There is still nothing but older 3500s to roll out a full line up for the lower half of the Mac Pro product matrix. Apple still isn't likely to pull the trigger. If Apple is skipping waiting a couple of months for new Sandy Bridge updates for the iMac, looks more likely an update for it would drop tomorrow then Mac Pro. Or Apple a wait for better updates for both for a while longer.

[Roman23]

I made a mistake.. I am human u know... or am I?

I still hold Ukrainian citizenship though I also have US Citizenship, so I am a dualie :)


Ahem... a) Germany is not in Eastern Europe... and b) swimming fully clothed is just as unusual in Germany as it is anyplace else. Except in Iran... perhaps... or in the 19th century... ;)

[Roman23]

How can an i7-970 or w3570 be a gulftown or westmere?? I thought those started at i7-980x?


For the last couple of years the stock they are clearing is iPods !! Not Macs. In part, that's because it is fairly widely known that new iPods will arrive in Sept/Oct time frame ahead of the Christmas season.

That's the downside of locking in a very narrow fixed time to do updates every year. What tends to happen is that it gets used as leverage to reduce prices.

The bundled free iPod is also being used to offset the generally higher than average Windows PC selling price in the lower half of the pricing spectrum for education folks whose budgets probably don't have much give. If dropping $2000+ on a school computer the delta of an iPod isn't going to a big difference. iPod's are to get folks to stretch over $1000, not $2000, for a box.

Sadly no Xeon 3600 updates from Intel today. A new ECC-less, i7 970 introduced, but it dropped at $899, so perhaps in some movement later in the single quad core package offering. Intel retired a pretty big chunk of the Xeon 5400 line up. Not sure if that frees up more resources to finish flushing out the 3600 series or not. There is still nothing but older 3500s to roll out a full line up for the lower half of the Mac Pro product matrix. Apple still isn't likely to pull the trigger. If Apple is skipping waiting a couple of months for new Sandy Bridge updates for the iMac, looks more likely an update for it would drop tomorrow then Mac Pro. Or Apple a wait for better updates for both for a while longer.

[deconstruct60]

How can an i7-970 or w3570 be a gulftown or westmere?? I thought those started at i7-980x?

http://infoworld.com/d/hardware/intel-cuts-prices-it-ships-new-six-core-core-i7-chip-853

The company announced the Core i7-970 processor, which will run at 3.2GHz and have 12MB of L3 cache. This is the second six-core desktop chip launched by Intel after the Core i7-980X Extreme Edition, which was launched in March.


How can it not be Westmere/Gulftown tech? 6 cores. 12MB L3 Cache. What does it sound like?

The root problem with Gulftown/Westmere i7/3600 series is that it has not been a series. It has consistent of exactly one offering. It has been incomplete. Going from one to two isn't saying a whole lot. Not sure the i7 970 is going to get tagged "extreme" so there would be one in the i7 desktop bucket, one in the i7 extreme bucket, and one in the Xeon 3600 bucket. All basically the same chip running at approximately same speed for approximately the same price. There is no series there.

AMD must of gotten their 6 core samples out awfully late and missed a ton of design window closures for Intel to be dribbling the 6 core offerings out so slowly. It will ease up soon if only because AMD wasn't that slow. As long as only above $900+ works, Intel will pocket the money.

Over time there probably be some $500 price range 6 core offerings from Intel. One of them will probably be a 3640. At that point probably will also get a 3620 and ..... ta da ... a Mac Pro update. The price cut on the i7-870 out of the $500 price range is a good prelude indication to that perhaps happening in next month or so.

[Roman23]

at first it didn't seem right as I have the w3580 or i7-975 extreme equivalent. Ok.

What do you think? Say the 2010 mac pro was out and firmware restoration cd 1.9 was out.. is it then possible to launch that on the 2009 and "TRICK" the computer into installing the firmware on top of the original 2009 firmware? ACCORDING to Nano, he says that the board is exactly the same.. nothing new would be added and if this is true, then once the 1.9 restoration cd comes out then I think we can use this to flash it back to the 2009 - immediately allowing the use of the Westmere and Gulftown on our 09 systems.. Sounds too easy, though I am sure there has to be a way to bypass the processor check to enable the overwrite of the existing 2009 firmware.


http://infoworld.com/d/hardware/intel-cuts-prices-it-ships-new-six-core-core-i7-chip-853


How can it not be Westmere/Gulftown tech? 6 cores. 12MB L3 Cache. What does it sound like?

The root problem with Gulftown/Westmere i7/3600 series is that it has not been a series. It has consistent of exactly one offering. It has been incomplete. Going from one to two isn't saying a whole lot. Not sure the i7 970 is going to get tagged "extreme" so there would be one in the i7 desktop bucket, one in the i7 extreme bucket, and one in the Xeon 3600 bucket. All basically the same chip running at approximately same speed for approximately the same price. There is no series there.

AMD must of gotten their 6 core samples out awfully late and missed a ton of design window closures for Intel to be dribbling the 6 core offerings out so slowly. It will ease up soon if only because AMD wasn't that slow. As long as only above $900+ works, Intel will pocket the money.

Over time there probably be some $500 price range 6 core offerings from Intel. One of them will probably be a 3640. At that point probably will also get a 3620 and ..... ta da ... a Mac Pro update. The price cut on the i7-870 out of the $500 price range is a good prelude indication to that perhaps happening in next month or so.

[deconstruct60]

at first it didn't seem right as I have the w3580 or i7-975 extreme equivalent. Ok.


You can't really look solely at the numbers. Earlier today Intel hadn't updated the ark site but it has an entry now.

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=47933&processor=i7-970&spec-codes=SLBVF

It is in the "i7 Desktop" bucket. They have locked the multiplier and set it lower hence the $100 price differential, but essentially same chip which comes in at slightly higher yields with the restrictions.



What do you think?


If Intel dribbles this line up flushing out till September and next years Xeon update won't come out to July/Aug/Sept of 2011 then I would put a board update on the table.

Two reasons. From March to September is a 6 month delay. That is half of the "extra year" was conceptually going to run with this "two year" design. If stay completely frozen will actually go 2.5 years on exactly the same board. That seems a tad long.

Second, the Mac Pro board comes in two pieces. Just a minor tweak to the mainboard PCB should require zero changes on the CPU's board.
The rationale that the CPU socket didn't change so can't do anything rings extremely hallow when the CPU socket isn't even on the PCB board being talked about.


Not guaranteed that they are making an update, but if Intel give them a 18 month heads up on this sloth update cycle while they adjust to a new part of the calendar year, then this is a window of opportunity to either do catch up with competitors SATA III or get a headstart USB 3.0. Yeah it is work but may be a way to still run the mainboard for 2 years but roll out a new a daughter board update out next year.

If the heads up wasn't long enough or Apple can't decouple the main/daughter board updates.... or is just want to suck as much money as possible.... then no update on board design.

[chedda]

Could it be the Intel road map is not what it was thought to be ? The longer this continues the more speculation abounds. Personally i'm for a 24 core AMD version POWER/PRICE Efficiency.

[ValSalva]

It's about 5:30 AM EST and the Apple online store is still up. So it looks like July 20th isn't going to be that Tuesday :(

[Hellhammer]

Could it be the Intel road map is not what it was thought to be ? The longer this continues the more speculation abounds. Personally i'm for a 24 core AMD version POWER/PRICE Efficiency.

Apple knows exactly when Intel is releasing and what. Apple gets engineering samples etc but they have to wait for the chips to be released.

I'm guessing that Apple is waiting for cheaper W36xx CPUs to arrive but there isn't much news about them. Several CPUs were released this week but there was no cheaper W36xx included :(

Offering AMD as well would be great as AMD offers CPUs with reasonable price tag, even CPUs that support quad CPU configs are reasonable. Imagine quad 12-core in Mac Pro, 48 real cores... *drool*

[DoFoT9]

Offering AMD as well would be great as AMD offers CPUs with reasonable price tag, even CPUs that support quad CPU configs are reasonable. Imagine quad 12-core in Mac Pro, 48 real cores... *drool*

no thankyou! as performance would be crap :P

all the software support over the years would dissapear too.

[xgman]

no thankyou! as performance would be crap :P

all the software support over the years would dissapear too.

+1. Amd=stinkaroozer!

[you39]

I made a mistake.. I am human u know... or am I?

I still hold Ukrainian citizenship though I also have US Citizenship, so I am a dualie :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/MermaidsAtBrighton.jpg

;)

[Hellhammer]

no thankyou! as performance would be crap :P

all the software support over the years would dissapear too.

How would it be crap? Yes, Intel does have better core for core, clock for clock performance but AMD offers CPUs that have reasonable price tag. Fusion looks very promising, I wouldn't mind having an option for AMD. If many cores are needed, AMD offers better solution for that, although the clock speeds are rather low. AMD sells you 8-core for less than 300 bucks and 750$ gets you 12-core. People who need the cores for rendering would be glad if Apple offered AMD as well. You could get 4x8-core for fairly cheap price (~1200$ for CPUs), less than current 2.66GHz octo is.

And how would software support disappear?

[maril1111]

And how would software support disappear?

I guess that he meant that Developers would slowly stop developing for Intel and Switch to AMD as well as the requirements would raise so the core 2 duo might not be supported anymore only quads and above?

[Hellhammer]

I guess that he meant that Developers would slowly stop developing for Intel and Switch to AMD as well as the requirements would raise so the core 2 duo might not be supported anymore only quads and above?

I think there isn't much difference, look at PC software, it's all for Intel and AMD so I doubt there has to be much magic done in order to get software work on AMD as well. There are AMD hacks that work fine. I'm not an expert in software so maybe someone with more knowledge can tell us what's the situation

[xgman]

If you want to build a performance pc, you go intel, period. Amd is for budget systems. Mac pro is said to be a performance system, not a budget system, so I don't see apple skimping down to amd anytime soon.

[Hellhammer]

I don't see apple skimping down to amd anytime soon.

Me neither but I would still like to see it in Macs. It wouldn't hurt anything, not at all. If AMD was used in Mac Pro, you could get 8-core for the price of current quad. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like Apple would use AMD in the future but it's okay, Intel is still the king but their price tags are just horrible :(

[PeterQVenkman]

Mac pro is said to be a performance system, not a budget system, so I don't see apple skimping down to amd anytime soon.

I can definitely see Apple switching to AMD for the lower end MacPro while still pocketing ridiculous profit on the machines. Instead of a mini tower, Apple could make an AMD 6-core tower and keep Intel for the dual high end (8-12 cores).

Still starting at $2499 for what is essentially an $1100 system, or course. ;)

[dgookin]

I haven't called my friend who works at the Towson Apple Store as a Genius and store manager...

I was just at that store last month! Very busy place. I picked up an iPad and laughed at it.

[nanofrog]

I can definitely see Apple switching to AMD for the lower end MacPro while still pocketing ridiculous profit on the machines. Instead of a mini tower, Apple could make an AMD 6-core tower and keep Intel for the dual high end (8-12 cores).

Still starting at $2499 for what is essentially an $1100 system, or course. ;)
I don't see them doing this (both AMD and Intel processors simultaneously), as it makes more work in OS development (i.e. chipset drivers and optimization for both architectures), and support training is more complicated (i.e. expensive).

[TennisandMusic]

I don't see them doing this (both AMD and Intel processors simultaneously), as it makes more work in OS development (i.e. chipset drivers and optimization for both architectures), and support training is more complicated (i.e. expensive).

The chips use X86 architecture. They could do it easily if they wanted, and support shouldn't be more expensive really. Apple has the resources to do way more in their OS than they already do.

Aren't there a bunch of hackintoshes using AMD already? :rolleyes:

[manhattanboy]

Another Tuesday, another letdown. :(

[nanofrog]

The chips use X86 architecture. They could do it easily if they wanted, and support shouldn't be more expensive really. Apple has the resources to do way more in their OS than they already do.

Aren't there a bunch of hackintoshes using AMD already? :rolleyes:
Yes, they both run on the same instruction set (Intel actually licensed the 64 bit instruction set from AMD), but that's not the same as optimized operation (i.e. works, but it's not as efficient as possible when running code designed for another architecture). This can be true even within the same part maker.

Keep in mind, I'm only reffering to a split in the MP line. If Apple's really considering going to AMD for any of their other products, then it makes more sense (more systems to divide the costs over).

[Vylen]

there are some differences between amd64 and intel64... While compilers (under windows and linux for example) generally create binaries compatible with both implementations of the x86_64 specification, theres nothing to indicate that current OSX software has gone under similar treatment.

I would like to hope that apple would use essentially the standard gcc so the binaries are expected to be compatible but we would need to hear that from them and that isnt particularly likely...

[Sean Dempsey]

I can't believe it wasn't annouced today.

They probably needed just 1 more week to get it ready. Next tuesday is a lock, I heard his story - it checks out.

[Roman23]

Lets bet next tuesday... $50.00 that the mac pro 2010 doesn't come out.. if I win, I will paypal someone the prize.. if not, then they will have to pay me.

Who is on? Who wants to bet?


Another Tuesday, another letdown. :(

[Roman23]

when nothing is showing any proof of it? Thats why I am putting a wager of 50.00 for next tuesday.


I can't believe it wasn't annouced today.

They probably needed just 1 more week to get it ready. Next tuesday is a lock, I heard his story - it checks out.

[Topper]

They probably needed just 1 more week to get it ready. Next tuesday is a lock, I heard his story - it checks out.

You are right, you are absolutely right. There is just no question in my mind but you are correct. The 27th it is.
This is such a sure thing, I am going to mortgage my home on it.
As a matter of fact, I think you should start a new thread called "Mac Pro Update - July 27th."

[reel2reel]

You are right, you are absolutely right. There is just no question in my mind but you are correct. The 27th it is.
This is such a sure thing, I am going to mortgage my home on it.
As a matter of fact, I think you should start a new thread called "Mac Pro Update - July 27th."

:D:D

[Vylen]

I didn't think they were going to announce any refreshes since the 20th was when they were going to announce their financial report.

On the bright side, they did say that there will be "amazing" products later this year.

[Ravich]

Oh good. I was worried that Apple was going to announce sub-par products for the remainder of 2010.

[johnnymg]

I can't believe it wasn't annouced today.

They probably needed just 1 more week to get it ready. Next tuesday is a lock, I heard his story - it checks out.

You can't believe it? What's so hard to understand about Earnings Call? Nothing takes priority over that! :apple:===> $$$$$$$

No new MP for you! ....................... at least not for a while.
cheers
JohnG

[Icaras]

You are right, you are absolutely right. There is just no question in my mind but you are correct. The 27th it is.
This is such a sure thing, I am going to mortgage my home on it.
As a matter of fact, I think you should start a new thread called "Mac Pro Update - July 27th."

Looks like you're late to the party. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=972781)

[Topper]

Looks like you're late to the party. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=972781)

You are right, I am losing it!

[Vylen]

Oh good. I was worried that Apple was going to announce sub-par products for the remainder of 2010.

I'm pretty sure sub-par products would've been great for some, cause I'd imagine there are people out there who may be thinking Apple isn't even going to release anything

[Ravich]

I'm pretty sure sub-par products would've been great for some, cause I'd imagine there are people out there who may be thinking Apple isn't even going to release anything
Why... on earth would they think that?

[johnnymg]

Who cares if the blogger analyst regularly beats wall street's estimate numbers. Are they accurate is what matters. Sheesh.

snip............

"I love the smell of refried beans in the morning": :p

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/07/21/earnings-smackdown-the-best-and-worst-apple-analysts/

sheesh.................... :rolleyes:

[Sean Dempsey]

Hmmmmmm, look who was right:

You heard it here first. Can I get this thread unlocked and a huge apology?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=972781&highlight=

[jjahshik32]

Hmmmmmm, look who was right:

You heard it here first. Can I get this thread unlocked and a huge apology?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=972781&highlight=

Wait you were wrong the first time though claiming that it will be updated on the 20th.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=966899

Basically you just claimed it would be updated every Tuesday, like every other person here on MacRumors. Except that every other person didnt make a thread out of it. :rolleyes:

[Sean Dempsey]

Except that every other person didnt make a thread out of it. :rolleyes:


Which is why I am the "winnar".

[psychometry]

Which is why I am the "winnar".
No, it's why you're annoying.

[Sean Dempsey]

yes.

[Ravich]

Your update sucks.

[jjahshik32]

No, it's why you're annoying.

HAHA.

[strausd]

Which is why I am the "winnar".

I'm gonna start a new thread every week from now on, "2011 Mac Pro Update." I'll make a new one each week, I have to get it right eventually ;)

[Sean Dempsey]

I'm gonna start a new thread every week from now on, "2011 Mac Pro Update." I'll make a new one each week, I have to get it right eventually ;)

You're gonna have to predict the hour and minute then.

Oh, and I honestly did have an insider tip.

[keewe]

dont feed the troll, guys;)

let the thread just die...