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View Full Version : Not really impressed with Jaguar. Info inside.


jwtillema
Aug 18, 2002, 03:09 PM
I just got back from the Apple Store in SD. They had the NEW G4s on display running at 2X1GHz with Jaguar. It honestly doesn't feel any faster than the megahertz differnce between 1X1GHz and my 733 MHz G4. Application loading seems faster, however, window resizing in IE is still painfully slow. Scrolling through a web page by dragging the scroll bar does feel faster and smoother, but it ain't blistering by any means. Scrolling through a web page on my machine in OS 9 is lightspeed compared to Jaguar on the new hardware. The guy that worked there said it was microsoft's fault because it doesn't take advantage of Quartz, and that I should try omniweb. I honestly don't understand how I can drag the scroll bar back and forth on a DV video stream at high res and have no lag whatsoever and not be able to do the same with a web page. It makes no friggin sense.

Another thing that I though was weird was that a lot of the new options that thinksecret showed in the system prefs were not there.

I did like the new Preview app. Some of the additions were really cool. The new address book is nicer, as well. The interface is a little prettier, IMHO, however I do have a gripe. Although the shadow under the arrow is cool, and I don't have a problem with it at all, in IE for example, when you put the cursor over a link and it changes to a hand, the shading disappears. It's just inconsistent, and I think that goes against good GUI design. Also, the menus are a little more opaque. I like the older ones a little better, but that's totally subjective. I didn't use iChat, so I won't comment on that. Sherlock is definitely cool. In fact, it is the only reason I have to upgrade to Jaguar, but I can just get Watson. I got movie showtimes for the theater in the same mall faster than it would've taken me to look out the window.

Bottom line: I have been drooling over Jaguar's new features since they first leaked into the rumor sites, but I seriously see no reason to upgrade that is worth Apple's asking price. The cost to benefit ratio is just too high.

sparkleytone
Aug 18, 2002, 03:52 PM
as far as the IE thing, the man told you the problem. therefore theres no point in complaining abou tit. use omniweb, use chimera, use mozilla, use LYNX, get rid of IE.

as far as the sysprefs, we all knew that would change as there were WAY too many preferences and it made the panel too crowded. They DID change shortly before the expo, if you had been watching.

peterjhill
Aug 18, 2002, 04:02 PM
From:
http://www.apple.com/powermac/processor.html

You will see that no microsoft products are optimized to take advantage of both processors.
Apps that fly
Plenty of vendors have tuned their applications to be specifically aware of dual processors:
Absoft Pro Fortran
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Illustrator
Adobe GoLive
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Premier
Alias|Wavefront Maya
Apple DVD Studio Pro
Apple Final Cut Pro
Apple iDVD 2, iMovie 2, iTunes 2
Apple Mac OS X
Apple QuickTime
Apple WebObjects
Avid Media Composer
Connectix VirtualPC
Deneba Canvas
Digital Origins EditDV
Discreet Logic Combustion
Discreet Logic Cleaner
Emagic Logic Audio
FileMaker Pro
Heuris MPEG Power Probe
Id Software Quake
Macromedia Dreamweaver
Macromedia Freehand
Macromedia Fireworks
Macromedia Flash
Maxon Cinema 4D
Media 100 CineStream
Metrowerks CodeWarrior
MOTU Digital Performer
Netscape Navigator
NewTek LightWave 3D
Propellerhead Reason
Sorenson Video Codec
Toon Boom Studio
Wolfram Mathematica

jwtillema
Aug 18, 2002, 04:04 PM
Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining. I'm merely stating my observations. As for other browsers, I've tried them all, including ones you failed to list. They all suck as far as window resizing and scrolling.

Chaszmyr
Aug 18, 2002, 04:49 PM
All of the OSX browsers suck as far as i am concerned. Especially when it comes to support for high-end java and the like. In my opinion its the worst thing about OSX... i suppose its just a matter of time before we get an "iBrowser" "iWeb" "iSurfer" or whatever apple ends up calling it.

peterjhill
Aug 18, 2002, 05:13 PM
That is interesting that you don't like Java on the Mac. There are some Java based web apps that I need to run at work, and I am amazed at how well they work and look. I am quite happy with OS X's Java support. I am sorry that you are not having a good java experience. Do you know what is really funny, try using Java on a Solaris box. It is awful! and Sun invented the stuff (or someone who works for Sun)

mnkeybsness
Aug 18, 2002, 05:23 PM
limewire is java...and it is butt-crap slow

sparkleytone
Aug 18, 2002, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by mnkeybsness
limewire is java...and it is butt-crap slow

i think you gave an extra word to that comment. limewire is java...and it is butt-crap. thats it, because limewire sucks.

tjwett
Aug 18, 2002, 05:36 PM
the version of Jaguar that is in the Apple stores is still a beat version. Granted, a late build and probably pretty close to the final but still a beta. I wouldn't expect the "real thing" to be much faster but i've been told that the System Prefs all will be there. and i thought that IE 5.2 is able to use Quartz? anyway, i'll probably end up getting Jag (edu discount) just to stay current.

job
Aug 18, 2002, 05:56 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
the version of Jaguar that is in the Apple stores is still a beat version.current.

I thought that the new towers were shipping with 10.2 final....

Megaquad
Aug 18, 2002, 05:59 PM
Maybe Pinot is The One? It's sad how we always wait ages for something like good OS or good machine..

Griffindor73
Aug 18, 2002, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Chaszmyr
All of the OSX browsers suck as far as i am concerned. Especially when it comes to support for high-end java and the like. In my opinion its the worst thing about OSX... i suppose its just a matter of time before we get an "iBrowser" "iWeb" "iSurfer" or whatever apple ends up calling it.

Well, if the do I hope they use an "I" for the icon rather than an "e"

"How do I get on the internet?"

"Well, click on that 'e' logo- 'e' stands for internet""

Doh!

nuckinfutz
Aug 18, 2002, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Megaquad
Maybe Pinot is The One? It's sad how we always wait ages for something like good OS or good machine..

I'm reading just the opposite in regards to speed. I read a report from a user with a g4 450 and he was happy with the performance.

Unfortunately we're not hearing enough about the install to make an informed decision. I've read that doing a Clean Install is a must for optimum speed.

Also sometimes I hear people say Jaguar isn't worth $129 to them but they never seem to mention what exactly they do with their computer. Jaguar is not a must have upgrade if all you do is play games or surf the web but if you

Have printing issues then CUPS might help.
Audio guys/girls need the Core Audio updates.
Networking people like the LDAP support and other things.
You aren't even seeing the potential speed of apps...once they've been recompiled with GCC 3.1 speed differences may be more visible.

yadda yadda yadda. In short I believe anyone who relies on their computer needs jaguar.

jaykk
Aug 18, 2002, 06:37 PM
I am very happy with the Java support on Mac. its really cool. Did u ever hear of Eclipse project? IBM build Websphere Application Developer Studio(WSAD) based on that.. At work I am using WSAD, and i import the project without any problem in Eclipse once i am at home ( thanks to iPod for transfering files).. The cool thing about Java is that it inherits Aqua look & feel once ur in Mac OS X, what a relief. I am tired of windows look and feel ..

Try running Sun's java Swing Demo..it looks so much better in OS X than on any other Java Look & feel ( Motif, Win etc themes).. I didnt use Solaris much.. My work involves mainly with Win & AIX..typical IBM setup ..i hardly require Win if IBM allows me to use my powerbook :)

tjwett
Aug 18, 2002, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by hitman


I thought that the new towers were shipping with 10.2 final....

ooh, you may be right. last time i was in the Apple SoHo store they were running betas but they didn't have the new PMs there yet either. Damn, hey jwtillema, did you happen to notice the Core MIDI and Audio Preferences? these are the ones i'm waiting for myself.

scem0
Aug 18, 2002, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Griffindor73


Well, if the do I hope they use an "I" for the icon rather than an "e"

"How do I get on the internet?"

"Well, click on that 'e' logo- 'e' stands for internet""

Doh!

I bet they end up calling the browser 'iSurf' or maybe, if SJ goes insane, iInternet or iNternet.

bousozoku
Aug 18, 2002, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by sparkleytone
as far as the IE thing, the man told you the problem. therefore theres no point in complaining abou tit. use omniweb, use chimera, use mozilla, use LYNX, get rid of IE.

as far as the sysprefs, we all knew that would change as there were WAY too many preferences and it made the panel too crowded. They DID change shortly before the expo, if you had been watching.

Everything I've read says that all of the major browsers still have display speed problems, even in 10.2. It could be that they've tried Mac OS 9.x optimizations which tend to be degradations on Mac OS X.

nuckinfutz
Aug 18, 2002, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by bousozoku


Everything I've read says that all of the major browsers still have display speed problems, even in 10.2. It could be that they've tried Mac OS 9.x optimizations which tend to be degradations on Mac OS X.

I've also heard from a reputable source that OS X Browsers tend to refresh their contents much faster than the typical Browser on windows. This leads to sluggish performance. I believe the Browser Devs can slow this down. Wish I knew more.


TJWETT have you checked out the CoreAudio mailing list here?

http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/coreaudio-api

Most of this stuff is over my head but from what i've gathered just reading the Web Archives is that CoreAudio, Midi and Audio Units are mature of 10.2. Plus the I/O Kit should be ready so we should now start seeing Audio Apps for OS X come at a steady rate. Keep your eyes on AudioUnits as well. They look like the might become the "preferred" plugin for OSX only apps. They seem to contain most of what VST does and maybe a little more.

jwtillema
Aug 18, 2002, 10:02 PM
tjwett,

Yes, they were there. Two thumbs up for you, I guess.

tjwett
Aug 18, 2002, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by jwtillema
tjwett,

Yes, they were there. Two thumbs up for you, I guess.

thanks. i'm officially psyched!

tjwett
Aug 18, 2002, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by nuckinfutz


I've also heard from a reputable source that OS X Browsers tend to refresh their contents much faster than the typical Browser on windows. This leads to sluggish performance. I believe the Browser Devs can slow this down. Wish I knew more.


TJWETT have you checked out the CoreAudio mailing list here?

http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/coreaudio-api

Most of this stuff is over my head but from what i've gathered just reading the Web Archives is that CoreAudio, Midi and Audio Units are mature of 10.2. Plus the I/O Kit should be ready so we should now start seeing Audio Apps for OS X come at a steady rate. Keep your eyes on AudioUnits as well. They look like the might become the "preferred" plugin for OSX only apps. They seem to contain most of what VST does and maybe a little more.

thanks for the link. yeah, this whole Audio Units thing is still a kind of mystery. First of all, couldn't they have come up with a better name? aside from the name i'm excited to see how they will work. Logic for OSX should be here any day now. as will everything else. Apple made them all wait until 10.2.. as long as Logic has Audio Units support(man i hate saying it! it's AU from now on)i'll be happy since that's my main work area. Logic, Reason, Ableton Live, those should keep me busy in OS X until Native Instruments gets in gear with some OsX apps.

iH8Quark
Aug 18, 2002, 11:02 PM
Anybody tried Nutscrape 6.2 for OS X? The DHTML and Java Script support is wonderful, but it takes SOOOOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOOONG to load, it's just a miserable, terrible experience. In all honesty, it takes about 20 seconds to load on my TiBook. There's simply no excuse for that.

...somebody should send them hate mail...if they felt so inclined. ;)

Choppaface
Aug 19, 2002, 06:06 AM
Originally posted by peterjhill
That is interesting that you don't like Java on the Mac. There are some Java based web apps that I need to run at work, and I am amazed at how well they work and look. I am quite happy with OS X's Java support. I am sorry that you are not having a good java experience. Do you know what is really funny, try using Java on a Solaris box. It is awful! and Sun invented the stuff (or someone who works for Sun)

how do get get those apps to work? i took a programming class where our editor was java based...could never get it to work on my mac. worked on their solaris boxes, even worked (great!) on my PC, but never worked on my mac....dunno

peterjhill
Aug 19, 2002, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Choppaface


how do get get those apps to work? i took a programming class where our editor was java based...could never get it to work on my mac. worked on their solaris boxes, even worked (great!) on my PC, but never worked on my mac....dunno

I run all the apps throught IE5/Mac. Let's see, I use
Stelltor/Oracle Corporate Time
NetEnforcer
Remedy
and Packeteer.

The 2nd and 3rd are hardware with java based config tools. The first is an Enterprise Calendar/scheduling software, and the third is a trouble ticket database. Have you tried using the Project Builder App in the Mac OS X developer tools? It can be used as and IDE for pure java programs. Java stands next to Cocoa on Mac OS X, in that it takes full advantage of the OS.