iMac or Mac Pro for gaming

[f1restarter]

I have been a PC user for most of my life until about 7 years ago I bought a powerbook. I now use the pc mostly for gaming but I want to switch over to the world of Apple completely. IMO OSX is still better than Windows 7, so before this latest refresh I was all set on buying the 27" iMac because the Mac Pro didn't offer much as far as a gaming GPU was concerned.

Now I think the Mac Pro is a much better option for those that want to play the latest games at high resolution. I was kinda hoping the new iMac would have a much faster GPU but sadly it's not the case as people in the iMac chat think it's a mobility 5850 gpu. I doubt it will play crysis 2 smoothly at high resolution, unless I'm wrong.

So do you guys think I'm going the right way by choosing the Mac Pro over the iMac from a gaming and upgradability point of view? thanks

[CaptainChunk]

If you must have a Mac for gaming, the Mac Pro is really your only option if you want upgradable graphics. The 2010 models that ship in August are getting very good GPUs (the 5770 and 5870).

Just understand that Mac Pros DO NOT support SLI in Windows for NVIDIA cards. And while ATI CrossFire has been known to work in Windows, you'll likely have trouble powering more than one 5870 in a Mac Pro because the logic board only has two PCI-E power connections.

I say these things because Crysis and Crysis 2 have historically been some of the most GPU hungry games available and really do need high-end graphics hardware to play acceptably at higher resolutions.

[f1restarter]

Those are good points CaptainChunk. According to Apple I can install 2 5770s so maybe that could work for demanding games like Crysis 2. Don't know if that would work in bootcamp.

[maflynn]

If you're thinking of using SLI/Crossfire with the MacPro, then think again. Apple does not support this.

If you want gaming, then get a PC or a game console. Games on OSX are far and few, and they're more expensive, then their windows counterpart. Since apple does not have the latest and greatest components, you're paying more for less performance if you plan on running windows also.

[Cindori]

Just understand that Mac Pros DO NOT support SLI in Windows for NVIDIA cards.

wrong. proved this with a recent thread.

If you're thinking of using SLI/Crossfire with the MacPro, then think again. Apple does not support this.

both are supported under windows, which you game in anyway.



Why the attitude, "Osx dont game well so get a console"

Seriously, it takes shorter time to reboot Windows then to boot up an Xbox 360.

[Hellhammer]

Get PC and Mini/MacBook or Hack the PC. Mac Pro is way too expensive for gaming in terms of what you get. You can build a similar machine for less than 1500$. If gaming ain't that important, then iMac is just fine

[maflynn]

both are supported under windows, which you game in anyway.

Yes but the cost of a mac pro vs. the cost of a gaming machine.


Why the attitude, "Osx dont game well so get a console"

Because console games > OSX games. Simple as that.

[Topper]

Yes but the cost of a mac pro vs. the cost of a gaming machine.

I've got a GTX 285 in my 2008 Mac Pro
I use WinXP under Boot Camp for gaming.
I have no need for another computer, the GTX 285 is great for gaming under Boot Camp.

The new Mac Pros will have the HD 5870.
That puppy is going to be wonderful to play games with under Boot Camp.

[Cindori]

Because console games > OSX games. Simple as that.

what I meant was who the fck gives a sht about OSX games, if you game you game in Windows, and windows games >>>> console.

[Hellhammer]

what I meant was who the fck gives a sht about OSX games, if you game you game in Windows, and windows games >>>> console.

What's the point of buying Mac for +1000$ more and then run Windows on it? It's understandable if it's used for work as well but OP said nothing about that. If the main purpose of that machine is gaming, then PC is a lot better choice.

[Cocoia]

Seriously, it takes shorter time to reboot Windows then to boot up an Xbox 360.


So true. Not to mention you get to play it on your nice Cinema Display :).

The "get a console" detractor smells a bit like troll.


What's the point of buying Mac for +1000$ more and then run Windows on it? It's understandable if it's used for work as well but OP said nothing about that. If the main purpose of that machine is gaming, then PC is a lot better choice.


This is a Mac forum, no? It could be that he loves to run OS X, and would like to play games (SC2 + Steam games) on OS X, but being able to boot into Windows for more 'serious' gaming is great. In that case, getting a Mac for gaming isn't a bad idea.

[maflynn]

what I meant was who the fck gives a sht about OSX games, if you game you game in Windows, and windows games >>>> console.

Agreed :D

[Hellhammer]

This is a Mac forum, no? It could be that he loves to run OS X, and would like to play games (SC2 + Steam games) on OS X, but being able to boot into Windows for more 'serious' gaming is great. In that case, getting a Mac for gaming isn't a bad idea.

We don't have to be blindfolded Apple fanboys though. You would be paying hefty extra for OS X. If the main purpose is gaming, then I don't understand why OS X is so important because games run better under Windows. Sure if OP doesn't care about money and it doesn't matter is it 1500$ or 3000$, then he can buy Mac if he thinks it's worth it. It's not my money but I wouldn't pay the Apple tax and then run Windows most of the time. I he's serious about gaming and money matters, then PC is better choice. When something new comes, he can just buy it, no need to wait for Apple to come up with it 6 months later with 200$ bigger price tag. You can always install OS X for PC as well.

It's just my opinion but you can't beat the fact that PC offers much greater performance/price ratio than any Mac does.

[REM314]

If you really want a mac for gaming I would still recommend playing your games in Windows until Apple decides to catch up to the latest openGL.

[Queso]

A Mac Pro isn't worth paying for if you just want to game on it. It's primarily a workstation designed for media content creation. If you game on a Mac it's because you have a Mac for some reason and you also want to occasionally game on it.

Seriously buy a decent PC instead.

[Spanky Deluxe]

Crossfire *does* work in Mac Pros in Windows but SLI doesn't (unless you used hacked drivers with the 7300GT). If you're feeling daring you could even run two 5870s in a Mac Pro with some 6 pin power splitters but I wouldn't advise it (although I did exactly that with two 4870s in my MP1,1 for many months).

To be honest though, buying a Mac Pro for gaming isn't really advisable. It's a workstation first and foremost and is priced as such but it can be used as a gaming machine in off hours.

Consider this:

A Mac Pro Quad 2.8GHz will be $2499.
The 5970 upgrade will likely be about $200 extra.
A 27' Apple Display will be $999.
Total system price: $3698

A 27" i7 2.93GHz iMac is $2199

The 27" iMac route would save you $1499. You could buy/build a gaming PC with a 5970 (twice as powerful as a 5870) for that and connect it to the iMac's display. If games are important to you then this setup would be *far* superior.

[sinser]

Honestly I'm facing the same dilemma. Not that I really need the full power of a Mac Pro, I just do the ordinary stuff (web browsing, some office, some iphoto,..) + some gaming (WoW, SC2,..) on my Mac, but considering that:

1) I already own one of the beautiful pre mirror ACD which would be unused with an iMac;
2) The Mac Book Pro is expensive but should also last much longer as far as upgradability is concerned
3) I like a lot the iMac, but every single time I look at those damn glossy screens I feel bad

it looks like a "reasonable" choice. Sure one could build a Windows Box, but, hmmm, I use Windows just at work, and have always used a Mac at home and don't feel like I'd like to have a Mac computer for everyday stuff + Windows box for gaming.
Yes, if Apple just could deliver a lower priced, less overpowered MacPro that would be great, but I'm not holding my breath on that...

[Spanky Deluxe]

Yes, if Apple just could deliver a lower priced, less overpowered MacPro that would be great, but I'm not holding my breath on that...

Never going to happen. The market for that's just too small and unprofitable. Apple doesn't like users upgrading their own hardware, they'd rather they just buy new machines.

The alternative route is go the hackintosh route. It takes a bit more work but it can be worth it in the end. It was my only option once Apple changed the target market of the Mac Pro.

[redscull]

I now use the pc mostly for gaming but I want to switch over to the world of Apple completely.This is really what it comes down to. If you're set on moving to Apple completely, the Mac Pro is going to be the best rig for gaming. But.. and this is a big but.. you'll be paying a whole lot of money for inferior results. Because the simple truth is that the Apple platform is not a good one for gaming. Neither the hardware nor the OS are designed for hardcore gamers.

The new Mac Pro has the best gaming hardware from Apple, but it's designed to be a workstation. You're paying for a workstation. You could build your own computer that would perform just as well for gaming for vastly less money. And if you get the Mac Pro, you're still better off running Windows on it for your gaming needs. So you're still not really completely Apple unless you want to forfeit even more performance.

The iMac isn't designed right to be a gaming machine. It has a decent (though not top-tier) video card now, and good processor and all that, but it's paired with an extremely high resolution monitor. That's fantastic for casual use, but for gaming, you'll probably want to run at the LCD's native resolution (I know it bothers me not to run LCDs native). And that means you're forced to play games at a higher resolution than anything but a top-tier video card can really handle well.

I love OSX myself, and prefer it for all my casual computer needs (web, email, photos, music, movies, documents, etc). But you know what? There is nothing that OSX does better than Windows that isn't featured on an iPad. And that's leading into what I think your best solution actually is. Buy a dedicated Windows gaming machine (most bang for least buck), and truly use it for only gaming. For everything else, use an iPad with the OS you love.

That's what I do at home. I have a Windows box for SC2 and other games. Performs beatifully. It's only turned on when I'm gaming. Any other time, I'm on my iPad. I have a MacBook Pro, which is a wonderful machine, but really only serves the purpose of being my iPad and iPhone syncing station.

[mlts22]

You could buy/build a gaming PC with a 5970 (twice as powerful as a 5870) for that and connect it to the iMac's display.

Call me dumb, but I was digging around on threads how to do that. Will one of the Apple sold adapters work to get a PC's DVI or even VGA input to Mini DisplayPort work? I know that Mac Pros this isn't an issue. The reason I wonder is because Mini DisplayPort is a packet based format, and I don't know if the adapters Apple sells work both ways, or only one way, converting packets into DVI or VGA signals.

I've found people who have tried random adapters with little success so far, as well as stuff like "will try this, will post results", with no followups.

[Spanky Deluxe]

Most 5xxx series PC cards come with a mini display port on them now anyway. All you'd need is an MDP cable. I know my 5970 has a mini display port on it.

[Quash]

Mac pro all the way.
I've done both gaming on an imac and on a mac pro.

That top en 5750 in the imac will seem very slow within 2 years. Especially when you need to drive that massive resolution. Get a good quad core with a 5870 and it will be a lot faster then the imac, roughly double the framerates i expect. And then in 2-3 years you run into trouble just upgrade to a better graphics card.

I also had thermal problems with the imac. Back in the day i gamed days on end and after a couple of hours i used to get graphics glitches. Only way to resolve it was to use fan control to the loudest setting and then they went away. An imac chassis is just not made for 24x7x365 load and it showed.
Maybe these issues have gone away now but it prompted me to save up for a mac pro. Never regretted buying it.

It's funny how many react get a windows box for gaming. And while that makes sense if you want to just game. If you want to work on a mac and want to game in the evenings. imac + windows gaming rig (similar in power to a mac pro) costs roughly the same as a mac pro setup.

The one box solution just seems more elegant to me.

[redscull]

It's funny how many react get a windows box for gaming. And while that makes sense if you want to just game. If you want to work on a mac and want to game in the evenings. imac + windows gaming rig (similar in power to a mac pro) costs roughly the same as a mac pro setup.Yeah, except that's the least cost-effective way to do it. You could pair the Windows machine with an iPad or a Mac Mini to yield a much lower price while still having a top-end gaming rig and Apple OS for all the stuff that it's superior at. iMacs are ok gaming machines, but if you had a real gaming rig, a Mac Mini or iPad would do all the non-gaming stuff an iMac could do, for cheaper. The Apple 27" display on the iMac, while phenominal for professional use, is a poor choice for gaming thanks to subpar refresh rates and an unncessarily high (for gaming) native resolution. You could get a far better 27" gaming monitor for just over 1/3 the price. Point is, don't pair a gaming rig with an iMac unless you have money to burn.

Get a Mac Pro if you have "work" that benefits from it. Or even an iMac. But if you only want Apple for the "casual" stuff, and have a real gaming rig running windows, your email/web/photo/etc stuff can all be easily handled by a Mini or iPad.

[Spanky Deluxe]

It's funny how many react get a windows box for gaming. And while that makes sense if you want to just game. If you want to work on a mac and want to game in the evenings. imac + windows gaming rig (similar in power to a mac pro) costs roughly the same as a mac pro setup.

The one box solution just seems more elegant to me.

Yes the one box solution is more elegant but it's inferior in many ways. An iMac and a PC gaming system with a 5970 has far more power. The iMac's more powerful than the quad Mac Pro by itself. The PC has equivalent power and has far superior gaming performance. In some ways this solution is even more elegant since you can leave the iMac to complete tasks such as rendering, encoding etc while using the screen to game. The more cost effective solution would be to build a gaming computer, install OSX on it and buy a 27" Apple Screen.

[f1restarter]

I want to thank all of you for your input regarding my dilemma. All great suggestions. Well the reason I didn't want to build a separate windows pc for gaming is that I don't do hardcore gaming enough to justify buying/building a windows pc, I play a few specific games like WoW, Crysis, BFBC2. Plus another thing that attracted me to the world of Apple was how Apple computers have much better resale value than Windows PC do.

About 6 years ago I made the biggest financial mistake by ordering a custom built gaming pc and within 6 months it wasn't even half it's original price. Here I see people selling their 6 year old Mac Pros for over a grand. No 6 year old Windows PC would ever go for something that high.

So after reading through many posts in the MP section as well as the iMac section I'm thinking I will save a lot by going the iMac route since I won't have to buy a monitor as I will need to with the MP. I really do need a nice monitor since I'm still using my 20" Dell 2001FP.

Regarding playing on the console, I just hate playing FPS on my PS3, I'm just too used to the KB/Mouse combo. :o

So the bottom line seems that the MP is going to be a huge investment and even though I would sorely miss the upgradability, going the iMac route will be a better investment for a casual gamer like me and yes I will use bootcamp whenever I want to game on the Mac. Still have a free vista ultimate CD laying around.

[Spanky Deluxe]

The resale value of Macs is certainly impressive and is the biggest thing that Windows users forget about when bashing Macs for being expensive. Even a liquid damaged three year old MacBook can fetch a pretty premium on eBay as a spares/repair unit.

If you don't need the newest graphics every year then buying a new iMac ever two or three is a great option. $2199 buys you an iMac that outperforms the equivalent Mac Pro with 27" screen at $3498. If you buy a new iMac in three years and resell your then old iMac, you will likely spend the same overall as a MP and 27" screen now but end up with a more powerful unit now and a much more powerful unit in three years time.

[REM314]

I want to thank all of you for your input regarding my dilemma. All great suggestions. Well the reason I didn't want to build a separate windows pc for gaming is that I don't do hardcore gaming enough to justify buying/building a windows pc, I play a few specific games like WoW, Crysis, BFBC2. Plus another thing that attracted me to the world of Apple was how Apple computers have much better resale value than Windows PC do.

About 6 years ago I made the biggest financial mistake by ordering a custom built gaming pc and within 6 months it wasn't even half it's original price. Here I see people selling their 6 year old Mac Pros for over a grand. No 6 year old Windows PC would ever go for something that high.

So after reading through many posts in the MP section as well as the iMac section I'm thinking I will save a lot by going the iMac route since I won't have to buy a monitor as I will need to with the MP. I really do need a nice monitor since I'm still using my 20" Dell 2001FP.

Regarding playing on the console, I just hate playing FPS on my PS3, I'm just too used to the KB/Mouse combo. :o

So the bottom line seems that the MP is going to be a huge investment and even though I would sorely miss the upgradability, going the iMac route will be a better investment for a casual gamer like me and yes I will use bootcamp whenever I want to game on the Mac. Still have a free vista ultimate CD laying around.

How much was that Mac Pro that went for 1k originally? Im surprised that someone would even consider buying a 6 year old computer for 1k. You could get a much better and new computer much more cost-effectively. You are technically spending $600+ of the iMacs price on the monitor which is why you get subpar components.

[Hellhammer]

The resale value of Macs is certainly impressive and is the biggest thing that Windows users forget about when bashing Macs for being expensive. Even a liquid damaged three year old MacBook can fetch a pretty premium on eBay as a spares/repair unit.

But the thing that you have to upgrade the WHOLE machine is what most people don't like. In PC, you can just grab a new GPU and throw it in, will make it sufficient for another year. Then upgrade mobo and CPU when you need and have money. That you can't do in iMac and you're always limited to Apple's offerings. The resale value makes it little easier though as you don't have to put more than few hundreds towards new one.

Both have their pros and cons. I have an iMac and haven't regretted it even though the new ones are a lot faster. I don't game though but if I did, I would just build a rig and use it

[JonR356]

My thoughts:

Mac user & casual gamer - iMac
Hardcore gamer who likes OsX - iMac + Gaming PC (or hackintosh)
Hardcore mac user who plays games sometimes = Mac Pro

[Cocoia]

My thoughts:

Mac user & casual gamer - iMac
Hardcore gamer who likes OsX - iMac + Gaming PC (or hackintosh)
Hardcore mac user who plays games sometimes = Mac Pro

This seems about right. I do heavy Photoshop work and Cinema 4D rendering, so I could use the 8 cores of my 2008 Mac Pro. But I've recently tossed in a HD5970 to also play games and it works gloriously.

For very serious gaming I'd also get a separate rig, though. Much cheaper to put together, upgrade and maintain.

[therealseebs]

FWIW, I play games on a Mac. I was playing WoW until the Real ID thing, and now I'm playing City of Heroes.

It sucks that Apple won't sell a real high-end laptop, but in the desktop line, I think their hardware is decent. And honestly, I don't see the point to boot camp. I don't want a Windows machine. If I were gonna play games on Windows, I'd get hardware that cost half as much. I want a Mac, so I don't have to worry about the endless treadmill of ultra-crucial security updates, anti-virus software, anti-malware software, and so on. So I just accept that I can only play some games.

In my situation (I have an existing display), the only real options are the Mini and the Pro, and obviously the Mini's not great for most gaming. So I'm probably in the market for a Mac Pro, although I don't have any idea when I'd be able to actually justify the expense. (The plan is to get it running Server, and have it also replace a Mini running server and an old rackmount box running BSD, so at least it'll be useful.)

[davelanger]

Since the pro can cost about $3000, would the best option be get an imac for osx for $1500 then a nice alienware gaming rig for 1500 as well.

Its the same price but the best of both worlds

[Icaras]

Mac pro all the way.
I've done both gaming on an imac and on a mac pro.

That top en 5750 in the imac will seem very slow within 2 years. Especially when you need to drive that massive resolution. Get a good quad core with a 5870 and it will be a lot faster then the imac, roughly double the framerates i expect. And then in 2-3 years you run into trouble just upgrade to a better graphics card.

I also had thermal problems with the imac. Back in the day i gamed days on end and after a couple of hours i used to get graphics glitches. Only way to resolve it was to use fan control to the loudest setting and then they went away. An imac chassis is just not made for 24x7x365 load and it showed.
Maybe these issues have gone away now but it prompted me to save up for a mac pro. Never regretted buying it.

It's funny how many react get a windows box for gaming. And while that makes sense if you want to just game. If you want to work on a mac and want to game in the evenings. imac + windows gaming rig (similar in power to a mac pro) costs roughly the same as a mac pro setup.

The one box solution just seems more elegant to me.

Agreed all the way. This is exactly the route I'm taking with my new hex-core, which will double as both my DAW for Logic and my PC gaming rig. One box is very elegant.

And although I consider myself a hardcore gamer (nearly 100 steam games), I don't normally obsess over benchmarks or FPS. And I'll probably get railed on this by some PC gamers here, but part of that elegant solution of having one Mac box is minimal cable clutter, one pair of keyboard and mouse, and even simply saving on your electricity bill; all things which I do consider.

Yes the one box solution is more elegant but it's inferior in many ways. An iMac and a PC gaming system with a 5970 has far more power. The iMac's more powerful than the quad Mac Pro by itself. The PC has equivalent power and has far superior gaming performance. In some ways this solution is even more elegant since you can leave the iMac to complete tasks such as rendering, encoding etc while using the screen to game. The more cost effective solution would be to build a gaming computer, install OSX on it and buy a 27" Apple Screen.

This solution seems quite elegant as well. I hadn't thought about using the 27" iMac as a screen for a separate PC gaming rig. I was under the impression the 27" iMac only accepted certain incoming video signals?

Anyway, great idea for the more hardcore gamer wanting the best gaming performance :cool:

[nasabaer]

Pah.. recommending an iMac over a Mac Pro for gaming ? you are kidding ? :eek:
besides the money aspect... the imac has a lot of problems.

- yellow tint on screen
- dust behind the front glas (very often i had this phenomen as i worked at an asp)
- often failing hard drives (too hot ?)
- system shutdown/freeze while playing games (maybe because of overheating ?)


in no way i would purchase an imac as a gamer.
if there is no money left for purchasing a mac pro i would prefer a mini with an 7200rpm hard drive and 4GB of ram for the daily work (use a kvm switch) and a windows pc for gaming.

[TheLOGICalone]

I jus bought the 3.33 ghz 6 core. Windows 7 will be on a ssd thru bootcamp, I will have 12 gb of trip channel 1333 ram, turbo boosted CPU of 3.6ghz, 5870 for now until we get a evga gtx 485 or ati southern islands, may take awhile but because I justify cost of mac pro for work, it's a helluva gaming rig that is just as good as any pc except for overclocking, and sli/crossfire.

[davelanger]

I've got a GTX 285 in my 2008 Mac Pro
I use WinXP under Boot Camp for gaming.
I have no need for another computer, the GTX 285 is great for gaming under Boot Camp.

The new Mac Pros will have the HD 5870.
That puppy is going to be wonderful to play games with under Boot Camp.

How would it be playing games like wow under osx?

[studiox]

Have to give my two cents. I have been a gamer since the last 15-whatever years and Im currently running a Game-Server business where we rent out Counter-Strike, Battlefield, MoA etc. servers to pro gamers. We have exclusive deals with both EA and Activision - Yes Im a gamer.

At home i prefer one computer. That is not, i guess so uncommon to most people :)

But when it comes to decision making there are pro/cons about it all:

** Getting a PC (Dell Alienware or a custom built watercooling box) will ensure you can get the latest graphics and processors whenever you want it. It's a constant upgrade cycle -> New Graphics -> New Processor -> New Motherboard -> More memory -> Faster drives (etc)

** But you can't run OSX. You can go the hackintosh route but there are no way you can be sure your new graphics card will work in OSX and you need to hack that to...

** Buying a Mac Pro does not mean you can upgrade the graphics. I have been there with the 1.1 pro that can't upgrade to anything nowdays. The EFI route does also mean trouble if you need to keep upgrading the gfx.

** IF you want to be on the (sort of) safe side you should get a 5870 or two 5770 - The more high-end you get from the beginning the more safe you will be to get high FPS on windows games.

** All this comes at a price. If I couldn't get my mac pro on my own company i would never been able to afford it (or convince me I can afford it :D)

** $5.500 for a desktop/workstation is a lot!! EOD

** If I would go to my local PC dealer and hand over $5.000 and ask them to build a kick ass desktop I would get something really nice (watercooling, 3xSLI, 2xSSD, 16G ram, nice motherboard, etc.etc.) But I wouldn't be able to run OSX.. The OS i love..

If apple could just create an affordable "Mac Pro mini" based on Intel i-7 in the range of about $2.500 I believe ATI and Nvidia would invest some time creating EFI cards themselves (without apple) and we would be able to get an affordable kick-ass computer that everyone wants :)

[Spanky Deluxe]

If apple could just create an affordable "Mac Pro mini" based on Intel i-7 in the range of about $2.500 I believe ATI and Nvidia would invest some time creating EFI cards themselves (without apple) and we would be able to get an affordable kick-ass computer that everyone wants :)

Never going to happen. The number of people that actually 'need' such a system are severely limited and Apple does not want people upgrading their computers - they want them to buy new ones instead. This is even true in the Mac Pros - Apple doesn't want people upgrading them really, hence why they don't release firmware updates for the socket compatible 2009 Mac Pros that would allow them to upgrade to hexacore CPUs and why they say that the 5870 is only compatible with 2009/10 Mac Pros. The 'expandability' of Mac Pros means (in Apple's opinion) PCIe expansion cards for specific tasks e.g. RAID cards, audio cards etc - stuff that is needed for current work but not for future expansion.

[Ryan P]

To be honest if you compare a Mac Pro to a system like the Mach V from Falcon, the Mac Pro looks both inexpensive and a little low end. :-) http://www.falcon-nw.com/configure-falcon . But in all seriousness the price points are pretty similar for a similar spec.

I don't think the Mac Pro for gaming is a particularly bad value once you exclude the "build it yourself" camp. Been there, done that, can be worth it, can also be a huge headache if you end up with a bad part or parts that are not happy with each other. Yes if gaming is your only concern, just get a Windows box, but if you also want OS X then there isn't a real reason you can't get a Mac Pro for work/play.

[CaoCao]

If you are considering a computer that can slaughter the best Alienware and be the same price go with Maingear's
SHIFT X58
2xAres Dual 5870 8GB Total GDDR5 (one scores 28.4K at 3DMark Vantage :eek:)
i7-980X
six hard drive bays
1.5KW PSU
...

[f1restarter]

Yeah Maingear is definitely a great choice if you want to go for a boutique gaming pc. Personally I can't stand Alienwaste as it looks like something out of a toys r us store, more lights than a 70's disco!

[davelanger]

Yeah Maingear is definitely a great choice if you want to go for a boutique gaming pc. Personally I can't stand Alienwaste as it looks like something out of a toys r us store, more lights than a 70's disco!

The thing that really turned me off for alienware it seems most if not all of their cases seem to be plastic. For the price they are asking you think it will be alliminium. Not to mention it seems like they put the machine together half @$$ed since the insides always look like a mess with wires hanging every where. Plus it seems like they tend to use generic parts which again is a ripoff for the price they are asking. At least with apple you are paying for quality.

[nanofrog]

The thing that really turned me off for alienware it seems most if not all of their cases seem to be plastic. For the price they are asking you think it will be alliminium. Not to mention it seems like they put the machine together half @$$ed since the insides always look like a mess with wires hanging every where. Plus it seems like they tend to use generic parts which again is a ripoff for the price they are asking. At least with apple you are paying for quality.
They all use off-the-shelf components though. Some do a better job with things like cooling and cable management. Please note, that we're not dealing with budget boxes here (unlike when members compare typical consumer desktops to the MP, though we're not dealing with 100% parity; i.e. Core i7 + non-ECC memory v. SP Xeons & ECC memory).

In terms of cable management, Apple does do a nice job (uses custom cable assemblies and hide them behind other areas as much as possible, as well as traces on the logic board), but there's usually a sacrifice if you want to upgrade any of the internals with 3rd party components (i.e. need special adapters to use the internal HDD bays with RAID cards, power issues for a second graphics card for some units, such as running 2x HD5870's, ...). Cooling is adequate, but not actually anything unique or special IMO.

[Topper]

How would it be playing games like wow under osx?

I assume you are talking about the HD 5870.
Considering that ATI has better drivers for OS X than they do for Windows and that the HD 5870 is a very powerful card, I'd say the HD 5870 will be an excellent choice for playing WOW under OS X.

Barefeats will probably have some benchmarks shortly.

[davelanger]

I assume you are talking about the HD 5870.
Considering that ATI has better drivers for OS X than they do for Windows and that the HD 5870 is a very powerful card, I'd say the HD 5870 will be an excellent choice for playing WOW under OS X.

Barefeats will probably have some benchmarks shortly.


Yes the 5870. I am looking to buy the quadcore and upgrade the card to the 5780 and upgrade the ram to 6GB.

[nutritious]

If you wanna buy a computer for gaming, don't buy a mac.

[davelanger]

If you wanna buy a computer for gaming, don't buy a mac.

I game mostly on console but do like to play wow, and would get diablo. But I don't play games like COD or Crysis.

I want a mac because I like OSX, and I have looked at a lot of gaming PCs, and unless I really build one myself (which I have no clue) it seems like a lot of sites like ibuypower or alienware a ripoff.

I really want to stay with osx and play wow and diablo.
sure I could get a gaming rigg and imac but that is too much clutter.
I just want one machine

[nanofrog]

If you wanna buy a computer for gaming, don't buy a mac.
If the system is used purely for gaming, I'd agree.

But most asking about this tend to want to be able to use a single system for both work under OS X, and games under Windows from what I've gathered when these posts come up. ;) In such instances, one MP or iMac is cheaper than two separate systems (true computers, not computer + gaming console/s type of situation). :)

[davelanger]

If the system is used purely for gaming, I'd agree.

But most asking about this tend to want to be able to use a single system for both work under OS X, and games under Windows from what I've gathered when these posts come up. ;) In such instances, one MP or iMac is cheaper than two separate systems (true computers, not computer + gaming console/s type of situation). :)

Does WOW still have problems under osx for the quad core?

[nanofrog]

Does WOW still have problems under osx for the quad core?
I don't game, but last I saw, Yes. But I'm not sure if the recent Graphics Update has addressed this or not (improved Steam's performance IIRC).

[sinser]

Does WOW still have problems under osx for the quad core?

What problems ? Problems that are specific to the quad core ???

[davelanger]

What problems ? Problems that are specific to the quad core ???

It was across all intel macs, the FPS were terrible.

[sinser]

It was across all intel macs, the FPS were terrible.

Hmmm...apart from Dalaran and all that trash at the entrance of ICC 25 I have no serious fps complaints on my MBP...but I play on low settings...

[Topper]

Does WOW still have problems under osx for the quad core?

Barefeats (http://www.barefeats.com/nehal18.html) benchmarks show very significant gaming improvements with the new "Snow Leopard Graphics Update."
Unfortunately Wow had the smallest improvement of only 9.8% But 67 FPS sounds doable to me.

[davelanger]

Hmmm...apart from Dalaran and all that trash at the entrance of ICC 25 I have no serious fps complaints on my MBP...but I play on low settings...

Shouldnt you be able to play wow on high settings on a pro?

[sinser]

Shouldnt you be able to play wow on high settings on a pro?

I have tried playing on high settings and it's playable (but tbh haven't tried that in a 25 man raid). You know what stresses me about gaming on a MBP ? Overheating. I use SMC Fan Control and a stand, but it worries me to play at high temperatures and/or max fan usage. That's why I prefer playing on low settings + capped framerate. For the same reason if and when I'll buy an other Apple computer I'll look into a Mac Pro since I don't think that cooling would be the best on an iMac.

[iWolf00]

I have quad core MP (early 2009 model) with ATI 4870 and it can handle all recently released games at high setting. Sometimes I have to lower setting from Ultra to high, but still I can play under resolution of 1920 * 1080. I am using my MP for gaming most of the time and I am really impressed with its performance. I don't really care about gaming Pcs; maybe they have better GPU and better expandable options, but MP run smooth, efficient, issue free and build to last. And if I am going to buy second computer for gaming, I will go for MP.

I don't recommend using a MBP for gaming; I had many issues with my MBP like overheating and logicboard failure.

[davelanger]

Thanks guys, that makes sense.

[f1restarter]

Well after a lot of thinking about which would be a better option for me i.e the iMac or Mac Pro, I decided to finally go with the Mac Pro. I have been lurking in the iMac section and I just had a feeling that in the long run the Mac Pro would serve me better mainly due to it's upgrade options. The iMac also seems like a hit or miss when it comes to the LED screen issues and I don't want to deal with headaches right out of the box.

So with that in mind I placed an order online with Bestbuy last friday for a 2.4 Quad Mac Pro, I couldn't choose 3.3 with 5870 since BB doesn't do custom orders but I think the 5770 should be fine for now as I don't play any hardcore graphics intensive games and I can always upgrade the GPU later, another thing I couldn't do with the iMac. Hopefully I can upgrade to the 3.3GHz westmere if it's possible, if not then at least the 3.2GHz one should the need arise.

[BornAgainMac]

Get the iMac. I had a Powermac G5 (Mac Pro grandfather) when those first came out because of "upgradable graphics" and pretty much whatever was available at the time was good. 2 years later I don't think I had any options as graphic cards retired. I loved gaming on my Powermac G5 though.

(I bought a i7 Dell Desktop for gaming myself and happy with the default graphics card. Forgot what stock card they used but it does everything fine).

[Pressure]

I assume you are talking about the HD 5870.
Considering that ATI has better drivers for OS X than they do for Windows and that the HD 5870 is a very powerful card, I'd say the HD 5870 will be an excellent choice for playing WOW under OS X.

Barefeats will probably have some benchmarks shortly.

I'm quote entertained by this.

The driver effort on the Windows side is much bigger compared to the Mac OS X side.

What you are seeing is the difference between OpenGL <-> DirectX and operating system most likely.

[Manzanito]

If you plan exclusively on gaming, you'll be throwing your money away.

I think you'll be better buying a PC instead, you'll have regularly updated drivers and the ability to upgrade GPU at a sensible rate and at a market price, not whenever Apple feels like it and paying double the cost.

Furthermore, if your gaming is going to be done under windows, then there's really no point in paying the premium.

Maybe apple will take gaming more seriously in the next few years. After all, they've been really committed to making toys this last years, but for the time being I think it's not worth it.

However, if it's still what you want to do, I think the base Mac Pro has a better GPU than the iMac (you'll want to order the 5870), and you can upgrade it in the future.

[designissimple]

I keep finding that not many people know this and being freelance Graphic Designer this is one feature I could not live without and correct me if im wrong but PC's can't do it.

I have been dumping my mac pro "brain" onto external firewire/usb drive and carrying it in my pocket wherever i go.

What I mean is that you can make a copy of your whole drive (my is intel and i use superduper to make the duplicate) os all programs all files all preferences and dump it onto an external firewire/usb drive that you can plug into any other intel mac and select as your startup drive. Meaning i can literally carry my mac pro in my pocket and use it wherever there is another intel mac (pro, imac, macbook etc).

With some clever options in backup software i have also made sync preferences so when i plug my drive back into my mothership macpro all data is synced between the drives.

+ i dont use time machine
+ if my comp die - i can continue working on any other mac in no time at all with all my software and settings and files (can't do that with timemachine)

Hope this can help someone

[Gomff]

If I were in the OP's shoes I would buy an iMac and an Xbox. Buying a Mac Pro for gaming is pointless IMHO.