Verizon iPhone 5 Confirmed to Be Unlocked on GSM 3G Networks

This is definitely good news! Now I am more interested in upgrading to a Verizon iPhone 5. My only concern is that I can't talk and surf at the same time. I understand that with Verizon, one can't talk and surf on LTE at the same time but does Verizon allow talk on 3G and surf on LTE (or something like that) and it's just plain simple that there's no way to talk and surf on Verizon.

I saw different posts talked about the unlocked function will allow talk on AT&T and surf on Verizon but that would mean one needs to subscribe to both a Verizon and a AT&T plans. That's will cost quite a bit in order to talk and surf and the same time with Verizon service. Can anyone confirm this, just wonder if I have got this right.

Thanks very much for any help and comment. Have a great day

rjohnstone said:

Sure... it's software.
The phones are all capable of working on the same networks and frequencies.
Enabling all of those features all at once would be a severe power drain, so Apple programmed the chips to only use protocols and frequencies based on what carrier was getting the phone and what region of the world it was expected to be used in.
In short... they're all identical inside, it's the based band programming that is different.


Nothing "ignorant" about it and if you want to throw insults, at least understand what the real facts are first.
Qualcomm doesn't program the chip, Apple does.

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No, you're wrong. It is not just software.

name99 is right that there is a different firmware for different frequencies.

But you're both missing the fact that not only the software/firmware configuration has to be there, there's support hardware that's also changed in order to support the frequencies.

There's two models of iPhone 5 (A1428, A1429).
They'll have a different list of parts underneath "Step 14" on this page:
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPhone-5-Teardown/10525/2

The AT&T model is likely missing the Skyworks 77491-158 entirely and the very likely the Avago 5013 would be switched out with an Avago 5017.

They are not the same hardware.

And Sprint?

Do we know if Sprint does the same with unlocked GSM?

Someone correct me -

If you put a GSM carrier SIM (e.g. AT&T) in your Verizon phone you will loose CDMA completely. The radio will switch to GSM mode. This means no Verizon 3G data and definitely no Verizon LTE data. Your Verizon SIM establishes its LTE connection. The AT&T SIM would try to force the phone to LTE bands not supported by the radio firmware. A world GSM SIM would force LTE to just bands 1.3.5 (?)

Further, we know it takes an extra antenna to use LTE and CDMA at the same time. iPhone 5 is missing that antenna. But doesn't it also require an extra antenna to run CSM voice and LTE ant the same time? I'm pretty sure GSM iPhone 5 customers are using 3G GSM/EDGE data while using voice(?) HSPA+ (iPhone 4s ATT, iPhone 5) is not used during voice calls (?)

Further, the LTE frequencies supported on the AT&T iPhone 5 are a subset of the frequencies supported by the CDMA model. Note: Frequencies, not LTE band designations. Meaning the radio in the AT&T phone is capable of transmitting and receiving signals in the same frequencies and bands as the CDMA phone during LTE. IT JUST HAS IT LOCKED OUT IN RADIO FIRMWARE. Same hardware, different firmware. Correct me, please.

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NttDocomo said:

This is definitely good news! Now I am more interested in upgrading to a Verizon iPhone 5. My only concern is that I can't talk and surf at the same time. I understand that with Verizon, one can't talk and surf on LTE at the same time but does Verizon allow talk on 3G and surf on LTE (or something like that) and it's just plain simple that there's no way to talk and surf on Verizon.

I saw different posts talked about the unlocked function will allow talk on AT&T and surf on Verizon but that would mean one needs to subscribe to both a Verizon and a AT&T plans. That's will cost quite a bit in order to talk and surf and the same time with Verizon service. Can anyone confirm this, just wonder if I have got this right.

Thanks very much for any help and comment. Have a great day

Click to expand...

Alveezy said:

hahaha! i just got out of VZW's Live Chat and asked if the phone is unlocked and this is what they say...god damn it! always trying to squeeze some money out of you! why can't i use another carrier abroad? are you effing kidding me? an international plan? BS!

Click to expand...

This, and all the locking shenanigans employed by carriers, are anti-competitive and anti-consumer.

If only we had some partially technically minded people in office, you know people who were aware that there are countries outside the US and that some people actually need to visit them, perhaps these practices could be abolished. But that would be expecting far too much, right. Actually useful legislation.

Beyond annoying that with every new iteration of a phone you need to spend weeks just retooling your travel communications plans (or just keep old BB world phone around, the use of which is itself annoying)

djaisling said:

The true unlocked phone means that on any GSM carrier in the world if you put in a sim card, it will work anywhere in the world. Apple doesn't ever sell these phones until a few months after the release.

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Maybe in the US (and even there this certainly varied from year to year), but in Europe I bought unlocked iPhones in an Apple Store on Day 1 of its release.

When they buy the iPhone from Apple they are paying the full price ($649-849) for each phone, when they sell it to you they sell it for the 2 year contracted price of $199-399 to essentially pay half that money they paid back, then over the 2 years you pay your bill with them you're paying between $75 and $200 a month, part of that goes to Apple and them. Essentially over the 2 years you're with them, Apple gets paid back for the phone itself and AT&T keeps you as a customer.

Click to expand...

Nope, Apple gets paid in full from the carrier when they deliver the phones to the carrier. The monthly payments go in full into the carrier's coffers for it to recoup the investment it made by paying the difference between the retail price and Apple's price.

Me bad. At the low frequencies you do need different power amplifiers for LTE. Avago makes a range:

http://www.avagotech.com/pages/en/rf_microwave/amplifiers/linear_power/lte_pa/

You would need different parts for bands 13 Vs. 17. A1428 and A1429 are disparate hardware versions. Not just modem firmware.

kemal said:

Someone correct me -

If you put a GSM carrier SIM (e.g. AT&T) in your Verizon phone you will loose CDMA completely. The radio will switch to GSM mode. This means no Verizon 3G data and definitely no Verizon LTE data. Your Verizon SIM establishes its LTE connection. The AT&T SIM would try to force the phone to LTE bands not supported by the radio firmware. A world GSM SIM would force LTE to just bands 1.3.5 (?)

Further, we know it takes an extra antenna to use LTE and CDMA at the same time. iPhone 5 is missing that antenna. But doesn't it also require an extra antenna to run CSM voice and LTE ant the same time? I'm pretty sure GSM iPhone 5 customers are using 3G GSM/EDGE data while using voice(?) HSPA+ (iPhone 4s ATT, iPhone 5) is not used during voice calls (?)

Further, the LTE frequencies supported on the AT&T iPhone 5 are a subset of the frequencies supported by the CDMA model. Note: Frequencies, not LTE band designations. Meaning the radio in the AT&T phone is capable of transmitting and receiving signals in the same frequencies and bands as the CDMA phone during LTE. IT JUST HAS IT LOCKED OUT IN RADIO FIRMWARE. Same hardware, different firmware. Correct me, please.

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Confirmed?

Has anyone independently confirmed this claim?

The video has a lot of "cuts" in it - he could have two iPhones (one on AT&T and one on Verizon).

Also: I think the 4S, even after unlock, wouldn't accept an AT&T sim (Verizon 4S would only GSM roam on foreign sim). Do we ever see the AT&T logo on the sim? Maybe it's a foreign sim (which would roam on AT&T in the US)

Great news if it's true (I went with Verizon because I know they'll unlock after 90 days - better if it's already unlocked). I'm just suspicious of videos with cuts/no real proof.

daytonaviolet said:

i still dont understand why ATT wants to luck the iphones. let's say i have a 2yr commitment and i want to leave because my phone is unlocked. if i do leave, they will bill me $250 anyways for early termination. i just want an unlocked iphone while on contract so can use when i travel

Click to expand...

AT&T also wants you to pay for an international plan with them when you travel abroad. If they allowed you to freely pop in a SIM card from an ex-US carrier, it would cut out their potential to make money on international charges and fees.

I get the model A1429 from Singapore, can I plug in Verizon's nano sim card to use LTE in the U.S.?




.

Hawaii Opihi said:

Is this true? So all of their other phones, including the popular Androids (S3 and Nexus) are also unlocked to GSM internationally/domestic (assuming the handset has a supporting radio)?

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Yes this is true. As long as the device operates at the 700C band of LTE spectrum, the phone must be fully unlocked. The problem is finding a phone that supports the other GSM networks, like the iPhone 5 does. I have a feeling that this will give a higher resale value to iPhone 5 sold on Verizon because not only do they work on Verizon, but basically any GSM carrier as well.

If anyone wants to read the FCC terms, they can go here http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=2d14e80617f3d3742a55ca1477b48b44&rgn=div8&view=text&node=47:2.0.1.1.5.2.49.7&idno=47

KPOM said:

If this sticks, this would be a great move by Verizon. Granted, it doesn't work on AT&T's LTE network, but even the option to use AT&T or T-Mobile is nice, on top of the ability to use international nano-SIMs.

Click to expand...

Sorry if this is denseness talking, but does this mean that one would be paying for two mobile services ($$$) in order to use either card/network? I can understand the benefit of accessing a temp overseas card/network for travel, but I don't understand the glee for having both att and verizon (and paying for two services). What am I not getting here?

BTW, I'm out of contract with att now and am planning to switch to Verizon (mostly for reception outside of cities...parks, wildlands, etc...[much better w/verizon])

pmbooks said:

Sorry if this is denseness talking, but does this mean that one would be paying for two mobile services ($$$) in order to use either card/network? I can understand the benefit of accessing a temp overseas card/network for travel, but I don't understand the glee for having both att and verizon (and paying for two services). What am I not getting here?

BTW, I'm out of contract with att now and am planning to switch to Verizon (mostly for reception outside of cities...parks, wildlands, etc...[much better w/verizon])

Click to expand...

Yes, if you wanted to use it on both, you'd need to buy both cards and swap back and forth. However, the key is that it is unlocked at all. Lots of people have different devices for home and office. It might be nice swapping SIMs in a pinch. Also, if you later cancel Verizon, you aren't left with a door stop. The phone will work elsewhere.

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NttDocomo said:

I saw different posts talked about the unlocked function will allow talk on AT&T and surf on Verizon but that would mean one needs to subscribe to both a Verizon and a AT&T plans. That's will cost quite a bit in order to talk and surf and the same time with Verizon service. Can anyone confirm this, just wonder if I have got this right.

Thanks very much for any help and comment. Have a great day

Click to expand...

You can talk and surf on GSM, but not CDMA. Verizon's voice network uses CDMA.

However, if you buy a Verizon iPhone and put an AT&T SIM in it, it will operate only on AT&T's network. To get it working on Verizon, you'll need to remove the AT&T SIM and put the Verizon SIM back in. There is no way to operate the phone on both networks simultaneously.

KPOM said:

Yes, if you wanted to use it on both, you'd need to buy both cards and swap back and forth. However, the key is that it is unlocked at all. Lots of people have different devices for home and office. It might be nice swapping SIMs in a pinch. Also, if you later cancel Verizon, you aren't left with a door stop. The phone will work elsewhere.

Click to expand...

Okay, thanks for the edification.

BTW, in order to get one of these unlocked phones do I need to order through Verizon or can I get the Verizon phone through Apple (or another source)?

My friend went this morning and got the Verizon version.. Left the store and went to t-mobile to get a chip and see If its unlock and it would work. Guess what... It didn't work.. It turned out to be locked. Went back to Verizon and took a refund.

Essa86 said:

My friend went this morning and got the Verizon version.. Left the store and went to t-mobile to get a chip and see If its unlock and it would work. Guess what... It didn't work.. It turned out to be locked. Went back to Verizon and took a refund.

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Only thing wrong with your story is that Tmobile has not released iPhone 5 nano sims yet. Did he buy a 4s??

Essa86 said:

My friend went this morning and got the Verizon version.. Left the store and went to t-mobile to get a chip and see If its unlock and it would work. Guess what... It didn't work.. It turned out to be locked. Went back to Verizon and took a refund.

Click to expand...

The lack of T-Mobile nano sims and the Code of Federal Regulations disagree with you.

I from Russia. Excuse me for my English. I have a question. Whether I can buy Iphone 5 with the contract Verizon and use it with a sim card of the Russian cellular operator? What will be for non-compliance with the contract Verizon? Whether I can to make so generally or I misunderstood something from a start post.

dimitry said:

I from Russia. Excuse me for my English. I have a question. Whether I can buy Iphone 5 with the contract Verizon and use it with a sim card of the Russian cellular operator? What will be for non-compliance with the contract Verizon? Whether I can to make so generally or I misunderstood something from a start post.

Click to expand...

This would be possible. The frequencies at which the Russian carrier operates would determine if the phone would use 3g or edge. Which Russian carrier are you talking about?

As for terminating a contract with Verizon, I believe it is a $350 penalty.

NttDocomo said:

This is definitely good news! Now I am more interested in upgrading to a Verizon iPhone 5. My only concern is that I can't talk and surf at the same time. I understand that with Verizon, one can't talk and surf on LTE at the same time but does Verizon allow talk on 3G and surf on LTE (or something like that) and it's just plain simple that there's no way to talk and surf on Verizon.

Click to expand...

There's no way to talk and surf simultaneously on Verizon unless the iPhone 5 is on a Wi-Fi network while on a call.

LTE is used for data only when the phone is not on a call. When the phone is on a call, the phone falls back to CDMA for data and remains on CDMA for voice. Verizon's CDMA network only allows for either voice or data one at a time over CDMA, so therefore when you're on a call on Verizon's network, there is no way to simultaneously use data over the cell network.

The AT&T iPhone 5 works similarly to the Verizon iPhone 5 in that it only uses LTE data when the phone is not on a call. When the phone is on a call, data falls back to their HSPA+ network for both data and voice, and HSPA+ does allow simultaneous voice and data. That's why AT&T's iPhone 5 can use data and voice over cellular simultaneously and Verizon's iPhone 5 cannot.

I tell about such operators as MTS, Beeline, Megafon. Whether will work?

dimitry said:

I tell about such operators as MTS, Beeline, Megafon. Whether will work?

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All 3 seem like they should run 3G on the iPhone 5 as it appears that the carriers all operate 3G on the 2100 band.

So do I understand this correctly... I can buy at full price an iPhone 5 from Verizon, put my iPhone 4 SIM in it (after cutting it down to the micro-sim size), then the iPhone 5 will suddenly work on my AT&T plan for voice & data but only on 3G? Or will it also do HSPA? HSPA+? But no AT&T LTE?

MacVault said:

So do I understand this correctly... I can buy at full price an iPhone 5 from Verizon, put my iPhone 4 SIM in it (after cutting it down to the micro-sim size), then the iPhone 5 will suddenly work on my AT&T plan for voice & data but only on 3G? Or will it also do HSPA? HSPA+? But no AT&T LTE?

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Yes, that is the point of the SIM card model, that your contract with a provider is encapsulated in the SIM card only.

And HSPA(+) is part of 3G so that will work fine as the 3G (and 2G and 1G) GSM part is identical in all iPhones.