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daneoni

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2006
11,575
1,131
That's what snow leopard was for. Even still lion and mountain lion didn't really get any compelling features. Just social crap and dumbing down of a lot of stuff to make it more like ios (Quicktime being a prime example - they remove most of its preferences for no reason at all)

Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.
 

BigJohno

macrumors 65816
Jan 1, 2007
1,453
519
San Francisco
Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.

Well said.
 

foidulus

macrumors 6502a
Jan 15, 2007
904
1
Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.

Well the problem is that they had a pretty bad "false start" on modernizing Quicktime with the QTKit API...that API sort of went nowhere and it looked like Apple was having problems extending the API to do anything useful, which is why the re-wrote the entire A/V library from scratch starting in Lion.... That API has a lot more promise than QTKit, but obviously adoption is going to take time.
 

Eithanius

macrumors 68000
Nov 19, 2005
1,541
411
They wrote "GRAPHIC DRIVEEEEERRRRRS" as well...

SO.....? :mad:

There's a reason why people are screaming GRAPHICS DRIVEEEEERRRRRS...!!!!

Graphics have been sucky ever since LION....! Read again LION....! Read again LION....!

Even on MOUNTAIN LION (Read again MOUNTAIN LION.....!), it still leak memory like there's no tomorrow....

What makes you (or any other people who says it's stated there GRAPHICS DRIVEEEEERRRRRS) think they have solved the issue with a minor (2 digit build) update...? :mad::mad:
 

el-John-o

macrumors 68000
Nov 29, 2010
1,588
766
Missouri
You can thank Criag Federighi for this as he took over as Senior Vice President of Software Engineering after Bertrand Serlet left in 2011. Serlet moved to Apple with Jobs from NeXT and was Senior VP in S.E., and was mainly responsible for Tiger, Leopard and Snow Leopard. Criag Federighi is a hack, responsible for allowing Forstall to incorporate iOS **** into OS X while dropping the ball on improved graphics drivers and OpenGL Core support, a revised HFS+ Finder system, lack of full multiple display support, "Mission Control", horrible memory management, and pushing for an annual release cycle. The odds are, it won't change.

Just a question, what is the issue with dual monitors? I am quite pleased with how well Mountain Lion works with multiple monitors. What features are lacking that are present in other OS'es or in previous versions of OS X?

Just curious. Evidently there's something I don't know about!
 

Peace

Cancelled
Apr 1, 2005
19,546
4,556
Space The Only Frontier
Well the problem is that they had a pretty bad "false start" on modernizing Quicktime with the QTKit API...that API sort of went nowhere and it looked like Apple was having problems extending the API to do anything useful, which is why the re-wrote the entire A/V library from scratch starting in Lion.... That API has a lot more promise than QTKit, but obviously adoption is going to take time.

Apple still uses the Carbon QTKit framework.
 

mentaluproar

macrumors 68000
May 25, 2010
1,759
209
Ohio, USA
That's what snow leopard was for. Even still lion and mountain lion didn't really get any compelling features. Just social crap and dumbing down of a lot of stuff to make it more like ios (Quicktime being a prime example - they remove most of its preferences for no reason at all)

I like quicktime X more than VLC. Too bad next to nothing plays properly in it.

I agree that the next OS needs to snow leopard-like polish. Stop rethinking execution, you have that right already, Apple. Instead, rethink the core of the OS. I understand Mountain Lion is much heavier than Tiger, but when my 700 mhz G4 iMac running Tiger boots up & logs on in mere seconds and Mountain Lion takes...well, longer, you have problems.

It pretty much confirms what I was worried about with the switch to Intel. Apple developers are getting lazy and making the system work harder, not smarter.
 
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el-John-o

macrumors 68000
Nov 29, 2010
1,588
766
Missouri
I like quicktime X more than VLC. Too bad next to nothing plays properly in it.

I agree that the next OS needs to snow leopard-like polish. Stop rethinking execution, you have that right already, Apple. Instead, rethink the core of the OS. I understand Mountain Lion is much heavier than Tiger, but when my 700 mhz G4 iMac running Tiger machine boots up & logs on in mere seconds and Mountain Lion takes...well, longer, you have problems.

It pretty much confirms what I was worried about with the switch to Intel. Apple developers are getting lazy and making the system work harder, not smarter.

While I agree with what you are saying, I don't think boot times are the only benchmark. My old IBM MS-Dos machine was instant on. Just a nature of the OS and the machine it was on. I'd rather take a full featured OS that takes a minute to boot over a very old instant on command line OS!

Extreme examples, yes, but the point is I'm willing to sacrifice some boot up performance for once-booted-up performance, and for features.

Unfortunately, I don't know if ML does that...
 

mentaluproar

macrumors 68000
May 25, 2010
1,759
209
Ohio, USA
Agreed, it's a poor benchmark, but it was also the most radical one I can come up with.

Another thing I loathe about Lion and Mountain Lion is the interface. I love mission control, and the lack of multiple workspaces is the number one irritant I have with windows machines. I'm referring to how Apple is whitewashing the entire OS. The buttons were round and friendly looking, with a shine and glow. The dock was old and outdated, but friendly. Really old versions of OS X had pin striping, which was subtle, but still made the OS look less stale.

Apple has been stripping out these lovely things. The interface feels cold and unfriendly. The biggest draw for windows 8 to me is the color (well, live tiles too).

I wish they would bring back the friendly aesthetics that made PC users cringe.
 

JohnDoe98

macrumors 68020
May 1, 2009
2,488
99
Quicktime 7 has a 32-bit API that is ancient. 64-bit is the future but taking Quicktime 7 to that future isn't a straightforward process and will take time. And if you owned Quicktime 7 Pro, it still runs just fine on Mountain Lion. Its not like Apple yanked it or 'dumbed it down' for fun-sies. Also social/cloud integration isn't crap, its where we are in contemporary technology.

From the article you reference:

Ars Technica said:
Yes, it's going to be a long, long time before QuickTime 7 disappears completely from Mac OS X (at least Apple was kind enough not to call it "QuickTime Classic"), but the path forward is clear. With each new release of Mac OS X, expect the capabilities of QuickTime X to expand, and the number of things that still require QuickTime 7 to decrease. In Mac OS X 10.7, for example, I imagine that QuickTime X will gain support for plug-ins. And surely by Mac OS X 10.8, QuickTime X will have complete video editing support. All this will be happening beneath the unifying facade of QTKit until, eventually, the QuickTime 7 back-end is no longer needed at all.

Now I don't see any expansion whatsoever since it was first released, which is why some of us are annoyed and even pissed off about the lack of progress on Quicktime X. Apple isn't to be excused in this regard.
 

portishead

macrumors 65816
Apr 4, 2007
1,114
2
los angeles
I'm selling my Retina MBP as soon as Haswell chips come out on a new rMBP or MBA. Too many graphics issues. I'm not sure if it's Intel's fault or Apples, or manufacturing issue, but my graphics card freezes way too much.
 

mentaluproar

macrumors 68000
May 25, 2010
1,759
209
Ohio, USA
Now I don't see any expansion whatsoever since it was first released, which is why some of us are annoyed and even pissed off about the lack of progress on Quicktime X. Apple isn't to be excused in this regard.

They added social features. Uploading video clips from Quicktime X to vimeo and facebook is MUCH easier now. It's surprising how useful that is.

Without Perian though, Quicktime X is dead. I really hate VLC too, but I guess I'll be stuck with it. :(
 

JohnDoe98

macrumors 68020
May 1, 2009
2,488
99
They added social features. Uploading video clips from Quicktime X to vimeo and facebook is MUCH easier now. It's surprising how useful that is.

Without Perian though, Quicktime X is dead. I really hate VLC too, but I guess I'll be stuck with it. :(

MPlayerX is ok.
 

el-John-o

macrumors 68000
Nov 29, 2010
1,588
766
Missouri
Agreed, it's a poor benchmark, but it was also the most radical one I can come up with.

Another thing I loathe about Lion and Mountain Lion is the interface. I love mission control, and the lack of multiple workspaces is the number one irritant I have with windows machines. I'm referring to how Apple is whitewashing the entire OS. The buttons were round and friendly looking, with a shine and glow. The dock was old and outdated, but friendly. Really old versions of OS X had pin striping, which was subtle, but still made the OS look less stale.

Apple has been stripping out these lovely things. The interface feels cold and unfriendly. The biggest draw for windows 8 to me is the color (well, live tiles too).

I wish they would bring back the friendly aesthetics that made PC users cringe.


I absolutely agree. Perhaps others would disagree with me, but, bring back the lamp-style iMac (with modern hardware of course) and the aqua interface, and I'd be in heaven.

I remember when Mac OS REALLY started to look good, with OS 9. My Windows 98 machine, at the time, was so ugly, and stale, and pixely. But my OS 9 machine had fruit colored status bars and lots of cool interface features. Subtle and not necessarily necessary for performance, but you know, it's pleasant to use a good looking machine. The unofficial Apple tag line was always 'the back of our machines look better than the front of theirs', and I think the same was true of the OS, it looked better.

Granted, I still love Mountain Lion, but I do miss the old aqua OS themes, the sort of stainless steel windows, the pin striping, etc. Oh well! Times, they are a changin'!

I do, however, really like the launchpad and the notification center, other iOS-ish goodies. I don't think Apple is trying to turn my computer into an iPad, I think they are just thinking 'Hey, you know what, it's really nice swiping between a couple pages of apps and tapping the one you want, why doesn't OS X do that?'. I really love it. And although I find the multi-touch gestures for the notification center less than reliable, I do like it.

Edit: I should clarify... EARLY versions of Aqua, like Panther. I LOVED the way Panther looked!
 

el-John-o

macrumors 68000
Nov 29, 2010
1,588
766
Missouri
I loved brushed steel! It was like a windowblinds skin that actually fit!

I'd actually love to find a 'theme' for OSX Mountain Lion that made it look like Cheetah or even Panther...

Maybe it's just the nostalgia of being younger and even geekier when OS X came out, the return of Steve Jobs, Apple becoming relevant again... even though it had it's downfalls I was just mesmerized with the look of OS X back then (especially compared to the beige wonders we got in the PC side), would love to have my modern mac look like that!

Still holding out for the return of the iMac G4 in a modern variation though! I STILL think that is, hands down, the best looking computer in history.
 

freedevil

macrumors 6502a
Mar 7, 2007
816
2
If we are on a yearly OS cycle, shouldn't updates for ML be coming out faster? We have6-8 months for 10.9.
 

el-John-o

macrumors 68000
Nov 29, 2010
1,588
766
Missouri
It could be an anniversary/limited edition thing. It would sell very well with this audience.

Provided the price is right, sure. We're at just over 10 years of OSX. The Bondi Blue iMac was released in 1998, so 2013 is 15 years. Sounds like a perfect time to release the 15th anniversary edition iMac, an i5 or i7 based 20" iMac G4! Provided the price wasn't ridiculous (like apples last 'anniversary macintosh'), I would absolutely grab one up!

I'd love to mod a G4 20" iMac to use as a second display. I just love those things! Some find them tacky, but not me..
 

ikir

macrumors 68020
Sep 26, 2007
2,123
2,270
That's what snow leopard was for. Even still lion and mountain lion didn't really get any compelling features. Just social crap and dumbing down of a lot of stuff to make it more like ios (Quicktime being a prime example - they remove most of its preferences for no reason at all)

Ehm Lion is full of new features! Even invisible ones like much more faster 3D graphics! If you say from 10.7 you get only social features you are trolling! I use airdrop, iCloud, AirPlay, iMessage, everyday! Safari is faster, mail is awesome! I use Game Center too...

----------

I'm selling my Retina MBP as soon as Haswell chips come out on a new rMBP or MBA. Too many graphics issues. I'm not sure if it's Intel's fault or Apples, or manufacturing issue, but my graphics card freezes way too much.

Stop using your laptop on the bed

----------

SO.....? :mad:

There's a reason why people are screaming GRAPHICS DRIVEEEEERRRRRS...!!!!

Graphics have been sucky ever since LION....! Read again LION....! Read again LION....!

Even on MOUNTAIN LION (Read again MOUNTAIN LION.....!), it still leak memory like there's no tomorrow....

What makes you (or any other people who says it's stated there GRAPHICS DRIVEEEEERRRRRS) think they have solved the issue with a minor (2 digit build) update...? :mad::mad:

It is the opposite, 3D under 10.7 is much more faster. This is the reason most modern games require 10.7 at least.
http://ikir.ikirsector.it/newsitem.php?id=38
 

mentaluproar

macrumors 68000
May 25, 2010
1,759
209
Ohio, USA
Ehm Lion is full of new features! Even invisible ones like much more faster 3D graphics! If you say from 10.7 you get only social features you are trolling! I use airdrop, iCloud, AirPlay, iMessage, everyday! Safari is faster, mail is awesome! I use Game Center too...

----------



Stop using your laptop on the bed

----------



It is the opposite, 3D under 10.7 is much more faster. This is the reason most modern games require 10.7 at least.
http://ikir.ikirsector.it/newsitem.php?id=38

Nobody uses Game Center. It was a dumb idea on the Xbox, and it's a dumb idea here.
 

mentaluproar

macrumors 68000
May 25, 2010
1,759
209
Ohio, USA
Provided the price is right, sure. We're at just over 10 years of OSX. The Bondi Blue iMac was released in 1998, so 2013 is 15 years. Sounds like a perfect time to release the 15th anniversary edition iMac, an i5 or i7 based 20" iMac G4! Provided the price wasn't ridiculous (like apples last 'anniversary macintosh'), I would absolutely grab one up!

I'd love to mod a G4 20" iMac to use as a second display. I just love those things! Some find them tacky, but not me..

I loved the design on the G4. Take one apart and really enjoy the design. Other than ventilation, they were excellent.
 

paronga

macrumors regular
Nov 9, 2011
106
5
Australia, Melbourne
surely the fact that we now have FCX which uses the QTX backend is evidence that progress has been made?

although i do find that the app QuickTime X can't seem to play anything and i loath VLC.
 
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