Apple, Paypal Talks Over Apple Pay Soured Due to Samsung Deal

This is awesome news

PayPal lets you link to a credit or debit card, yes, but they cap you at $10,000 LIFETIME unless you hand over all your bank-routing information to them. I used to buy expensive items like musical instruments and stuff on eBay a lot and hit this limit. Screw PayPal, and screw eBay for forcing it on their customers. Long live ApplePay!

ggibson913 said:

You should probably not buy the iPhone then as Samsung is supplying some of the chips for that as well.

https://www.macrumors.com/2014/09/23/iphone-6-parts-cost-samsung-a8/

Not to mention they all copy, thing Apple copied from Google:

Notifications
Third Party Keyboards
Activate Siri with voice "Hey Siri" instead of "Ok Google"
Widgets
Video Demo of Apps in the App store

That is just off the top of my head and just iOS 8. So lets not pretend that Apple is that pure.

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You realize that one company doing something on phones before the other does not mean the other "copied". I'm sure they both pay close attention to their competitors and this effects what they decide to change in their own OS's. However, your list is just rediculous.

For example, OS X has had widgets since before Android was released. Apple didn't just come up with them either, third parties like Konfabulator (bought by Yahoo) had them way before Apple. Not to mention that iOS widgets are very different from Android widgets.

Apple may have seen that Google was allowing videos on the store and decided that that was the right way to go because of this, but it wasn't some amazing new idea. There's a reason why patents aren't supposed to be available for obvious things. Having videos is pretty obvious. So is having images, which is why no one argues that Google copied Apple by having screenshots in the Play Store. A copy, that matters, would be something like Google adding swipe functionality to their keyboard (assuming they didn't license it from the original creators).

Notifications - Uhh ever heard of Growl? iOS has also had notifications for a very long time... The common "complaint" is that Apple copied Google by having a drawer where your old notifications are stored.
3rd Party Keyboards - Seems pretty obvious to me, but maybe Google deserves some credit? I personally don't care, because I've used many of them and vastly prefer Apple's or Google's over any third party's.
Voice Activation - Definitely obvious, the issue is battery life drain. I was there for the Google Now announcement and had the same complaint as when I first heard about Siri. Unless it's activate-able by voice alone, it's useless.

UpperQuadrant said:

ApplePay is just a service that Apple's just offering to Apple customers as a secure way to make NFC payments because they obviously feel that the other methods aren't as secure and they might pass user account information to the retailer.

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ApplePay is not a service run by Apple.

It's an implementation of the latest Mastercard/Visa/Amex contactless EMV payment apps. The service is run by those companies.

HyperZboy said:

I bet ApplePay quickly puts Paypal out of business.

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Doubtful. Apple Pay is simply using a credit card. Using credit cards hasn't put PayPal out of business yet.

Tara Davis said:

PayPal lets you link to a credit or debit card, yes, but they cap you at $10,000 LIFETIME unless you hand over all your bank-routing information to them. I used to buy expensive items like musical instruments and stuff on eBay a lot and hit this limit. Screw PayPal, and screw eBay for forcing it on their customers. Long live ApplePay!

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Interesting. Never knew about such a limit, but then I pay directly from my bank account, and I've used PP to buy well over a thousand items off eBay, at up to several hundreds of dollars each.

Edit: Oh, okay, I understand now. They cap users unless they verify their identify via a bank account. I believe they have no choice because of drug / anti-terrorism laws related to money laundering. Direct your anger at your Congressional representatives.

kdarling said:

ApplePay is not a service run by Apple.

It's an implementation of the latest Mastercard/Visa/Amex contactless EMV payment apps. The service is run by those companies.



Doubtful. Apple Pay is simply using a credit card. Using credit cards hasn't put PayPal out of business yet.

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No, it's a service run by apple which allows you to pay for things on different apps, websites and brick-and-mortar locations using a one click button/cellphone wave. It shields your cards' info from the merchant and provides the convenience of PayPal checkout without having to deal with a terrible company that requires a lot more info than it actually needs to know and locks up fund from your account for no reason. Apple pay has the potential to hurt PayPal and I hope that it does.

ggibson913 said:

Come one google, work your magic and show em how it's done.

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Just had to comment on this...

Google has had Wallet for years and look where it is now? lol

mrjayviper said:

Just had to comment on this...

Google has had Wallet for years and look where it is now? lol

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A fine example of where Apple has the advantage and upper hand over Google. Google can create a great (I assume) wallet app, but they can't do anything to ensure that its integrated right with all the different hardware that's out there. Meanwhile, Apple can flip the switch with the iPhone 6 today and within 3 years the overwhelming majority of iPhones will supports this feature. Just think that numbers wise, in 3 years the iPhone 6 will be what the iphone 4S is today.

Here, I'll explain how much I use or care about PayPal...

Ok, I'm done.


I didn't even know PayPal was still used. I just quit supporting them after I had literally over 50% of my payments from my customers have issues for absolutely zero issue while getting literally zero support from PayPal. Have had very little issues since.

Oh and PayPal I'd really appreciate it if you would quit emailing me after I've repeatedly asked you to quit.

numlock said:

what are your views on applepay outside of the n-america?

will all existing payment terminals work with apple pay?

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Here's an interesting article that might help. Technical issues for Apple Pay in Europe. To summarize:

- Contactless terminals. It notes that there are already 1.5 million of them in Europe, and that should rise now that there is a deadline (2017?) to get more.

- Tokens. Of course, your CC bank has to support the latest tokenization schemes from MC / Visa / et al.

- Interchange fees. Apple also apparently won't let iPhone owners use a credit card unless the issuing bank pays them a percentage of purchases, which is far too high for EU banks:

"Interchange fees in Europe are soon to be capped at 0.3% on credit card transactions and 0.2% on debit card transactions. As of May 2014 Visa’s interchange fee for a contactless consumer credit card transaction (under €20) is 0.23% of the transaction amount + €0.02.

(...)

Apple now wants a slice of a European interchange fee pie that has already been handed out. After the launch of Apple Pay in the US it was revealed that Apple had negotiated a deal with five major US banks (Bank of America, Capital One, Citi, Wells Fargo, and Chase) to give it between 0.15 to 0.25 of a percentage point of the interchange fees in return for being allowed onto Apple Pay.

It will be nigh impossible for Apple to cut a similar deal in Europe: different regulatory models will bring different problems."

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- Offline mode. Due to poor comms, many POS terminals in EU operate in an offline mode, especially for contactless payments. This is unlike the US, where EVERY purchase authorization has been done online for years.

Fancy waiting for a modem connection while paying with your swish new iPhone 6? Thought not.

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In theory, this could be supported by Apple Pay, but we'll have to wait and see.

Alon1 said:

No, it's a service run by apple which allows you to pay for things on different apps, websites and brick-and-mortar locations using a one click button/cellphone wave.

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The contactless wallet part of Apple Pay is not a service, because Apple's servers are not involved with payments. All the service part is done by the banks.

As for in-app payments, that's again not a service. It's an onboard API to obtain the CC token info in a form ready to be used. And that API has to be used in conjunction with a merchant acquirer service and its own API to actually process the payment.

It shields your cards' info from the merchant and provides the convenience of PayPal checkout without having to deal with a terrible company that requires a lot more info than it actually needs to know and locks up fund from your account for no reason. Apple pay has the potential to hurt PayPal and I hope that it does.

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As noted elsewhere, PayPal has to obey Federal money laundering laws. That's why they need a bank account for verification.

As for their general behavior towards merchants, I have no personal experience, though it's easy to see the general unhappiness that many merchants have.

As a consumer, I've only had a problem once way back when they first started. I failed to get back $400 from a purchase that was never sent. But frankly, that was more my fault for thinking I was getting a deal that was too good to be true. Which of course it was. I would've been scammed no matter what the payment method was.

Macboy Pro said:

Are you thinking that Apple will somehow have the "cheaper" fees? Apple WILL charge just like any other payment system. If you run a retail location and decide to take Apple Pay, you will pay a hefty premium.

Have you been in an Apple Store? Have you compared prices with Apple products and similar category products? Apple is very expensive. For the record, IMO their products are worth it.

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Yes, I'm aware Apple Pay will cost.

I like the idea of having a choice, I'm hoping it creates lower rates for consumers and business. I can't tell you how many times a day I get sales calls from C.C processors telling me how much $ they'll save me.

Apple Pay looks like it's going to be much more secure!

I'll be using Apple Pay in my business once it's available.
Apple Pay should speed transactions considerably. NFC in general could possibly speed up wait times in line.

I like how people are talking smack about pay pal because apple couldn't get a deal with them. Pay pal is easier than using a credit card. It is not just some little paying service. A lot websites only accept pay pal now.

mrjayviper said:

Just had to comment on this...

Google has had Wallet for years and look where it is now? lol

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What people fail to realize is that the reason apple jumped in to nfc at this particular time is because of the shift that is going to happen in Oct.2015... Its a great move for them, but nfc was about to happen in a bigger way regardless. Apple will help push it even quicker, but the new standard was imminent.

Speaking as a on online store owner, I would love to offer applePay to my customers. Have them fill their cart from an iPad, then check out and pay with a press of their thumb. No near field anything involved!

roadbloc said:

I guess we'll see what comes out of this. But I don't understand for the life in me why Apple is trying to 'reinvent' something that has been about for a good few years now. NFC payments aren't new and the rest of the industry already has their way of doing it.

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It may be helpful (if shocking) to know that NFC is non existent in the US. Options at check out include cash, debt (type in your pin) and credit (had over your card and sign the screen or paper). Hell, we still use paper checks for all kinds of mail in payments!

If the US is about to rollout NFC for the first time and apple is in on the ground floor and gets their tech in popular use first, they could take over.

ElectronGuru said:

Speaking as a on online store owner, I would love to offer applePay to my customers. Have them fill their cart from an iPad, then check out and pay with a press of their thumb. No near field anything involved!




It may be helpful (if shocking) to know that NFC is non existent in the US. Options at check out include cash, debt (type in your pin) and credit (had over your card and sign the screen or paper). Hell, we still use paper checks for all kinds of mail in payments!

If the US is about to rollout NFC for the first time and apple is in on the ground floor and gets their tech in popular use first, they could take over.

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No.. Nfc is in the US. And has been for quite awhile. And Apple isn't offering a new technology that will take over. Its the same as existing nfc and works with all the nfc pos terminal that are in place around the country already.

Fenez said:

What people fail to realize is that the reason apple jumped in to nfc at this particular time is because of the shift that is going to happen in Oct.2015... Its a great move for them, but nfc was about to happen in a bigger way regardless. Apple will help push it even quicker, but the new standard was imminent.

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but what has Google done with wallet since it was introduced? it feels like it's one of those Google apps that's in permanent beta and have a likely chance of getting canned

have google actually partnered with any banks/shops with wallet?

mrjayviper said:

but what has Google done with wallet since it was introduced? it feels like it's one of those Google apps that's in permanent beta and have a likely chance of getting canned

have google actually partnered with any banks/shops with wallet?

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Has Apple partner with any new shops? Nope. All the places Apple pay listed are already taking nfc payments. Most retailers don't offer nfc payments because of cost of equipment and monthly cost of running it. Best buy has taken nfc payments before but shut off devices due to cost. Most retailers are barely making profit or in the negative. Small local shops don't want to add extra cost either. Google and Apple isn't going to help retailers in putting devices in stores. Most of the big retailers like Walmart, target, best buy, and many others are under MCX and won't be doing NFC. Without NFC terminals Apple pay is just as useless as Google wallet.

Apple is a hardware company. They should offer an all in one point of sale solution for tabletop, kiosk, machine and portable. Dominate the fee capture that way.

Rocketman