Small business network help, accessing multiple routers

RafaelT · Aug 10, 2010

Hi, if this has been answered before I apologize, I did do some searching.

I have a restaurant where I have a small network set up. It contains a DSL modem, linksys router (used only for DDNS) and a Time Capsule.

Below is my setup.

INTERNET---> DSL MODEM --> LINKSYS ROUTER --> TIME CAPSULE

All three have DHCP left on for ease of set up, I realize that would be something I will have to change.

If I get everything set up correctly should I be able to access the Linksys or DSL modem while connected to the time capsule? That is my goal.

Thanks

maflynn · Aug 10, 2010

You only need one DHCP server active and with so many on your system, they'll not be able to talk to each other as you had hoped.

Why so many routers?

RafaelT · Aug 10, 2010

maflynn said:
You only need one DHCP server active and with so many on your system, they'll not be able to talk to each other as you had hoped.

Why so many routers?

I have to have the DSL modem, the linksys can't replace that right? I need the linksys because apparently apple has never heard of Dynamic DNS and feels no need to add it to there networking gear, and it has to be in front of the time capsule to work properly (unless someone knows a trick to get it to work behind the time capsule). And I use the time capsule to run our secure and guest wireless networks.

I can change everything to static and just have the Time Capsule handle the DHCP, as long as the subnet and the range of IP's match on the secure wireless network and the dsl modem and linksys I should be able to access them right?

Alrescha · Aug 10, 2010

RTigay said:
I need the linksys because apparently apple has never heard of Dynamic DNS and feels no need to add it to there networking gear

Any of your computers behind the router(s) should be able to run a DDNS client for you. There's no need to run it in the router (yes, it's convenient - but not a requirement).

A.

RafaelT · Aug 10, 2010

Alrescha said:
Any of your computers behind the router(s) should be able to run a DDNS client for you. There's no need to run it in the router (yes, it's convenient - but not a requirement).

A.

The only computer is my laptop which moves around with me. Everything else is printers, and a credit card machine.

belvdr · Aug 10, 2010

Activate only one DHCP server; I'd recommend using the Linksys. For the TC, do not use the WAN/Internet port (the one closest to the power with a different icon). You can setup your TC as a bridge and it will deactivate the DHCP server.

Then, when wireless, you'll be able to see anything/everything. I do the same with my AEBS; I use them only as APs and have a Cisco ASA as my firewall.

talmy · Aug 10, 2010

I've got an Airport Extreme Base Station which should be the same as a Time Capsule wrt networking capability. It can run a DHCP server as well as a router, so your Linksys router is redundant.

If you really want to use the Linksys you need to set the Time Capsule to bridge mode. This is what I do because my Fios installation comes with a router that I basically must use. In my case my Mac mini server is acting as DHCP server.

RafaelT · Aug 10, 2010

belvdr said:
Activate only one DHCP server; I'd recommend using the Linksys. For the TC, do not use the WAN/Internet port (the one closest to the power with a different icon). You can setup your TC as a bridge and it will deactivate the DHCP server.

Then, when wireless, you'll be able to see anything/everything. I do the same with my AEBS; I use them only as APs and have a Cisco ASA as my firewall.

I will look into that, thanks.

talmy said:
I've got an Airport Extreme Base Station which should be the same as a Time Capsule wrt networking capability. It can run a DHCP server as well as a router, so your Linksys router is redundant.

If you really want to use the Linksys you need to set the Time Capsule to bridge mode. This is what I do because my Fios installation comes with a router that I basically must use. In my case my Mac mini server is acting as DHCP server.

We are not on the same page here. I'm currently using the linksys for the Dynamic DNS capability, not DHCP. Apple does not feel the need to support DDNS.

RafaelT · Aug 10, 2010

belvdr said:
Activate only one DHCP server; I'd recommend using the Linksys. For the TC, do not use the WAN/Internet port (the one closest to the power with a different icon). You can setup your TC as a bridge and it will deactivate the DHCP server.

Then, when wireless, you'll be able to see anything/everything. I do the same with my AEBS; I use them only as APs and have a Cisco ASA as my firewall.

Ok, I looked at that option, it would appear that if I do that then my secure and guest network will not be segregated the same way since the TC will not be handing out the addresses. I would imagine guests could potential access everything on the network.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

belvdr · Aug 10, 2010

You are correct. If you want a guest network, then you need the TC to be the router and connect to the DSL. You can always place the Linksys behind the TC and have it be a DDNS client if you want.

RafaelT · Aug 10, 2010

belvdr said:
You are correct. If you want a guest network, then you need the TC to be the router and connect to the DSL. You can always place the Linksys behind the TC and have it be a DDNS client if you want.

I tried that originally and it reported it's local IP. If you have any idea how to get it to report the WAN IP I would be happy to hear them.

Thanks

belvdr · Aug 10, 2010

It's usually done by telling the client to use a web site to report it's IP. In this case, I'd forego the Linksys router and use a DDNS client on another machine or get a static IP (best option).

deconstruct60 · Aug 19, 2010

belvdr said:
It's usually done by telling the client to use a web site to report it's IP. In this case, I'd forego the Linksys router and use a DDNS client on another machine or get a static IP (best option).

It is not going to be very dynamic DNS if the address is not updated dynamically. The router immediately behind the modem will be the one which "sees" that the IP address have been changed. At that point it can automatically send out the update to the ddyns service. If depend upon a person or some downstream computer to do it they'd have to notice the change and then do it. For example power outage is obvious might want to do an update. However, can loose lease and get a new address from ISP also. More rare but can happen.

TimeCapsule doesn't use the web method.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1409367

so there is a different set up.

If want to use the Linksys and TC then what need to do is set up two different subnets. May not want this because multiple boxes and/or traversing multiple firewall issues that could pop up.

For example. the DHCP server on the Linksys can hand out addressses in range of

192.168.0.0 - 192.168.0.255

and you tell the TC DHCP server to had out in the in range of

192.168.10.0 - 192.168.10.255
(or 10.10.0.0 - 10.10.0.255 if can easily change to that reserved block area )

and then plug the WAN port of the TC into the Linksys.

Pretty sure nothing in TC range can talk to anything in Linksys range except for the router. You are creating two different private networks. That's OK in this case.

You just don't want them both to be handing out overlapping subnets addresses.

Most home routers automatically set up to use 192.168.0.0 - 192.168.0.255 so if you have two both be DHCP servers they will both start handing out the exact same addresses and things are likely to get internally confused.

belvdr · Aug 19, 2010

deconstruct60 said:
It is not going to be very dynamic DNS if the address is not updated dynamically. The router immediately behind the modem will be the one which "sees" that the IP address have been changed. At that point it can automatically send out the update to the ddyns service. If depend upon a person or some downstream computer to do it they'd have to notice the change and then do it. For example power outage is obvious might want to do an update. However, can loose lease and get a new address from ISP also. More rare but can happen.

You're misunderstanding what I said. I was referring to having the DDNS client use a web site to find the public IP, not a client as in workstation or person. I do this from one of my machines at home using the DynDNS client. Since the client checks a web site frequently, it can tell when the IP changes. In this case, though, I'd recommend getting a static IP and dropping the DDNS client, unless the OP is willing to run it on a workstation 24/7.

deconstruct60 said:
Pretty sure nothing in TC range can talk to anything in Linksys range except for the router. You are creating two different private networks. That's OK in this case. You just don't want them both to be handing out overlapping subnets addresses.

You don't want two or more DHCP servers handing out addresses in one physical LAN, unless those DHCP servers are configured correctly.

With home routers, this is usually impossible as the router uses its internal LAN IP for the router option. One difference is if you are using a Linux-based router, where you can configure all aspects of the DHCP scopes, namely the router option. In some DHCP servers, though, they will ping an IP before offering it to a client. Home routers don't tend to do this though.

You coudl also forego the TC as the router, and plug one of its LAN ports into the switch of the Linksys. Then you have one router and the TC connected, although the TC won't be accessible from the Internet.

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