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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:26 AM   #26
thejadedmonkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carboncow View Post
please you act like a new OS never has an issue or more...Lion is far from Vista status and with the exception of a couple changes I didn't like and a handful of bugs...it's just fine, Leopard 2.0. Relax...
...Vista was just as good as XP, with the exception of a couple changes I didn't like and a handful of bugs... It's just fine, too. XP 2.0. Relax...

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Originally Posted by mave1969 View Post
Isn't it pretty much accepted that the "Asteroid" Garage Band breakout audio box that brought down Think Secret was, in fact, such a fake project designed to catch leaks?
My understanding was that it was a real product, that Jobs' scraped because he wanted it to be a surprise. And when it couldn't be a surprise, he acted like a spoiled little brat.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:28 AM   #27
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I bet its really hard to get a job with Apple. I bet the clean up staff even have to go through numerous interviews. I think Apple would hate for one of the clean up staff members to pick up a picture of the new iPhone 5 and take it home.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:36 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by nfl46 View Post
I bet its really hard to get a job with Apple. I bet the clean up staff even have to go through numerous interviews. I think Apple would hate for one of the clean up staff members to pick up a picture of the new iPhone 5 and take it home.
Nah. Apple is all about simpilicity. It hires a tester to leave a real one at a bar.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:36 AM   #29
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Really! - if you were good and your job you would know you were working on a fake project - and quit. This sounds really wired that apple would use money this way - they are good at doing business.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:38 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by nfl46 View Post
I bet its really hard to get a job with Apple. I bet the clean up staff even have to go through numerous interviews. I think Apple would hate for one of the clean up staff members to pick up a picture of the new iPhone 5 and take it home.
Most companies, not just Apple, have security that periodically audits employees workstations: Is their PC locked? Are the drawers locked? Is there any potentially confidential material on their desk?
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:38 AM   #31
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Its certainly sounds like something apple would do but than again the secrecy part of the reason why apple product launches are that anticipated.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:41 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by mbhebsgaard View Post
Really! - if you were good and your job you would know you were working on a fake project - and quit. This sounds really wired that apple would use money this way - they are good at doing business.
Maybe if you were clairvoyant you'd know it wasn't a decoy project. I'm pretty sure whatever assignment Apple is giving the new hires it's a realistic one. And even if a new hire did realize it was a "test," they aren't going to high-tail it out of Apple because their feelings were hurt.

Trust building is part of the new hire experience. Different companies go about it differently. This is Apple's way. Apparently it works judging from Apple's long spate of success in the CE market and it being one of the premier places to work in the tech field.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:44 AM   #33
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Maybe you underestimate them?

It's pretty easy to come up with a fake project that still involves design challenges useful in other areas. This could be considered part of their R&D budget, essentially -- bringing in new people and letting them solve problems on a bogus product, so those solutions translate over to a real project.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mbhebsgaard View Post
Really! - if you were good and your job you would know you were working on a fake project - and quit. This sounds really wired that apple would use money this way - they are good at doing business.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:49 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by allpar View Post
I tried Lion. It's not a Leopard II. You want fundamental mistakes? Screwing around unnecessarily with the user interface counts to me. Hiding the part of the file dialogue that lets you see the list of hard drives counts.

Yeah, a few bugs always sneak through. These are not bugs, they're fundamental design errors. Macintouch has a huge discussion with both sides chiming in, and I really don't think the "get over it" side has much to go on.

Just because Microsoft makes mistakes, doesn't mean Apple doesn't. That's like claiming I should love Adobe customer service because it's slightly better than Intuit's.
OMFG, Lion is not that bad.

Spaces was better in Snow Leopard, that's about it.

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I wish "new employees" rather than "new hires" was used.
A rose by any other name...
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:58 AM   #35
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That's the norm...

Note: I no longer work for Apple, I'm now at a startup on the fringe of Apple-dom. My choice.

When I was hired at Apple, it was for the unannounced iPhone project. We were forbidden from telling people what we were hired for, or discussing anything around our project in the campus cafeteria (which can have non-Apple personnel in it if escorted). In fact, although we were creating the Applecare support group for the iPhone launch, we didn't see a real iPhone until less than 48 hours before launch, and information was tightly controlled.

I will say, though, that Apple rewards loyalty and honesty. I worked through positions where I saw things that made it impossible for me to legally buy stock, and saw things that may or may not have been real (i.e. things designed to be tempting to leak). To this day I've not spoken of specifics, partially out of respectful fear that Apple is in fact "watching" for these leaks (they are!), and primarily out of respect - I was trusted to be able to see information I needed, and I keep my agreement to not say anything.

And no, I'm not hawking for people to offer me things for information. Not happening (if it were going to happen, it would have been well before now, and I've been gone from Apple for years now). Just saying that not only is secrecy tested, keeping secrets does in fact prove trustworthiness and is rewarded with greater responsibility. It's a good business model in that when employees do get access to early information, it's because they've proven they can be trusted.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by koobcamuk View Post
I wish "new employees" rather than "new hires" was used.
Apple doesn't treat new hires like employees. It treats them as contributors... as general "partners" in its success. There's no domineering "we tell you what to do and you do it" attitude - it's more a "here's what needs to be done, contribute" mentality.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:59 AM   #36
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"A friend of mine [...] he works on -- or did work on -- fake products I'm sure for the first part of his career, and interviewed for 9 months. It's intense."

So some guy is "sure" that his "friend" works on "fake" projects.

Isn't it more likely that his "friend's" project just got cancelled at a high level, or rolled into another project that didn't include whatever feature this friend was working on?

That happens all the time in the business world. I'd expect it's even more common at Apple, where things that don't pass muster with Steve (or Tim, I guess, these days) get shut down.

And that has little to do with the practice of posting dummy positions. All big companies post job listings that don't really exist, just so people will send in a bunch of resumes. This is also a common practice in business, as anyone who's ever tried to apply for a job is well aware.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 09:59 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by jadot View Post
You should cut down, and then slowly try to re-integrate into the real world.
This story satisfied your 'need' for something (anything) Apple related?
Wow.
First of all what is this real world you speak of?? Just kidding, it's your world and I'm just floating in it, buddy.

Secondly, some of us work and those that do some have to work on the weekends (me). So it's nice to have something new to read on my break when I'm working the weekends. For example the verge and engadget are very good at posting new articles on the weekend. So I guess it's not so much to satisfy my 'need' for something apple related as much as it is 'tech' related to kill my break time.

I wish you the best though, sitting up there on your cloud of judgement passing down life lessons to all us sinners below.

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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:00 AM   #38
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Freaky but understandable.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:02 AM   #39
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Apple will have robots working for them in 10 years. iRobot, perhaps?
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:03 AM   #40
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Thats amazing, although a good way of evaluating their work without making mistakes on a 'live' project.

Yep. And that could be what it was really about, with the secrecy issue being icing on the cake

Quote:
Originally Posted by allpar View Post
And yet, we have Lion and countless other examples of people making mistakes on "live" projects.
Some folks might disagree with whatever you contend are 'mistakes' on many cases as simply being that you don't like Apple's way of doing whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
a former Apple engineer confirmed that piece of information during the Q&A portion of Lashinsky's recent talk at LinkedIn
I love that little bit. It's actually a supposed former employee talking about a friend who was an engineer and this friend is totally 'sure' that his engineer coworker was on fake projects. But no actual details about anything or anyone are given. Making it read like the whole book does -- as total hearsay and likely 99% false. Heck even many of the source articles read more like gossip rag stuff than fact
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:12 AM   #41
Andronicus
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Originally Posted by GenesisST View Post
Some people have lives, you know!
Are you insinuating all the other major blogs that post on the weekend don't have lives?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)



What news is going to come out on the weekend? Most of their sources will be 9-5. Ever thought about that?
Just FYI a good website that makes apple posts 24/7 is iPhone download blog.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:12 AM   #42
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When a company like this talks about "transparency" they mean it in relative terms.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:13 AM   #43
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:19 AM   #44
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To each his own for sure, but that does not sound like a very fun place to work. I get that there is a reason for it all, but I could never work at a place where there is a inherent and built-in lack of trust for all new team members.

Just sounds like a miserable place to be on a daily basis.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:20 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by koobcamuk View Post
I wish "new employees" rather than "new hires" was used.
Without fail, I read "hires" as high resolution. >_<
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:25 AM   #46
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Finally! A new post. I swear MacRumors just shuts down on the weekends. It's like a 9-5 job! Please post on the weekends, macrumors!
A 9-5 job? You mean a website that isn't owned by a larger media company doesn't operate 24-7? How dare these guys manage their website within a budget and actually take a few moments to themselves when they could be posting stuff on a Saturday for your amusement! The nerve of these guys!
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:33 AM   #47
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Isn't it pretty much accepted that the "Asteroid" Garage Band breakout audio box that brought down Think Secret was, in fact, such a fake project designed to catch leaks?
Yes.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:35 AM   #48
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A 9-5 job? You mean a website that isn't owned by a larger media company doesn't operate 24-7? How dare these guys manage their website within a budget and actually take a few moments to themselves when they could be posting stuff on a Saturday for your amusement! The nerve of these guys!
Hey! I'm no stranger to sarcasm!

You should check out a (much) smaller blog called iPhone Download blog. They somehow manage to have lives AND post 24/7. I'm not saying arn should be chained to his desk 24/7, there are others that could post on the weekends. And I'd be very surprised if they (macrumors) didn't have bloggers worldwide because you know just because it's my weekend doesn't mean it's the rest of the worlds weekend.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:35 AM   #49
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Objective C

I wonder how much of that is the fact that I imagine most new hires to Apple have to spend some time becoming familiar with Objective C. I mean, unless you've already written software for iOS or MacOS X, I'd say the chances are relatively slim you're going to be adept at it, even though you may be familiar with most of the feature set by using other object oriented languages.

I still say Objective C looks like the line noise you used to get just before your 2400 baud modem disconnected and printed NO CARRIER. Those of you old enough to remember modems without error correction (or even POTS line modems at all), and know anything about Objective C, raise your hands.
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Old Jan 30, 2012, 10:35 AM   #50
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"Thats amazing, although a good way of evaluating their work without making mistakes on a 'live' project."

And yet, we have Lion and countless other examples of people making mistakes on "live" projects.
Not sure what you mean. If you're referring to bugs, all products have bugs. If you're talking about design decisions, those were deliberate.

These sample projects probably test the engineers' attention to detail and ability to perform the necessary analysis to shown design compliance without error. Bugs still make it through those checks, but catastrophic failures do not.
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