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Old Feb 16, 2012, 10:52 AM   #26
swordfish5736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grayskies View Post
-also

Data limits?

I may be a cynical hater but...
is your data limit really that low? I mean i've gotten a warning and that was when i was somewhere near 200gb in a month
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 10:58 AM   #27
jazzbo
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Just curious, but what do most people with work Macs do? Do you maintain a separate Apple ID for your work machine and then use a purchasing card to buy updates of OS X?

Or what exactly, I'm used to more the model where you buy installation media and licenses for the office and go from there, but with the tie to an Apple ID, I'm not sure what the best way to go is. More of a curious question than anything.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:00 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by CRIIM44 View Post
is your data limit really that low? I mean i've gotten a warning and that was when i was somewhere near 200gb in a month
I'm unaware of any data limit on my internet service. But, this question is about the moment. I'm concerned how things can change in the future.

I mean...I use to have unlimited AT&T data on my phone and look how that has changed.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:14 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grayskies View Post
I'm unaware of any data limit on my internet service. But, this question is about the moment. I'm concerned how things can change in the future.

I mean...I use to have unlimited AT&T data on my phone and look how that has changed.
well yea but at least for now the celiling for me was somewhere north of 200gb with cox. As more and more people are streaming data and downloading content instead of watching it thru there cable company i dont really see how a data cap could be lowered to something a normal user would hit. There would be a huge outlash, not like what is going on with ATT since the average user has no chance of hitting the data cap.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:16 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarDTO View Post
Question, should I upgrade to OSX Lion before going straight to this? I'm still using Snow Leopard and haven't really had any motivation/need to switch, but I do like the sounds of some of the features of Mountain Lion. Will skipping one cause any problems?
Well the answer to that depends on the update. You might not have a choice about going to Lion first. So I would get your ducks in a row re: apps that need Rosetta support (i.e. get them updated or replaced with Lion compat software) etc and then wait and see what happens.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:18 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by pubwvj View Post
...Apple is alienating many users this way.
No, they aren't. You're the unbelievably small minority here.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:18 AM   #32
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http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10454133-94.html

Actually there are still quite a few living in rural areas who cannot get affordable broadband. There is always sattelite, which is what I used to use when I lived in a Rural area. But it was over $1,200 to install, $75 a month for 512kbps connection, and limited to 5GB per month. Eventually 3G came available so that became our ISP. So it's still not a decent solution for downloading Lion / Mountain Lion. Though, admittedly, if I were in that situation, I'd probably go to somewhere with an access point. Nearest place was 30 minutes away but everything was 30 minutes away. No biggie. Just go get a coffee and download Lion.

I also think it's unfair to tell these people to 'move'. Don't knock it till you try it! It's awfully nice living in a place where you don't lock your doors and you can leave your keys in your ignition, where you don't have the sound of cars driving by... there's a lot of great reasons to live in a rural area. And there is more to life than internet!
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:27 AM   #33
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My family lives in a rural area with slow Internet (100kps is fast). They all have lion. How? The go to a friends house were fastr internet is available and download it or head to the apple store and use their free wifi for big updates.

Were there is a will there is a way.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by el-John-o View Post
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10454133-94.html

Actually there are still quite a few living in rural areas who cannot get affordable broadband. There is always sattelite, which is what I used to use when I lived in a Rural area. But it was over $1,200 to install, $75 a month for 512kbps connection, and limited to 5GB per month. Eventually 3G came available so that became our ISP. So it's still not a decent solution for downloading Lion / Mountain Lion. Though, admittedly, if I were in that situation, I'd probably go to somewhere with an access point. Nearest place was 30 minutes away but everything was 30 minutes away. No biggie. Just go get a coffee and download Lion.

I also think it's unfair to tell these people to 'move'. Don't knock it till you try it! It's awfully nice living in a place where you don't lock your doors and you can leave your keys in your ignition, where you don't have the sound of cars driving by... there's a lot of great reasons to live in a rural area. And there is more to life than internet!
As
Agree. I love visiting my family. Life slows and feels more 'alive'. Of course getting my sisters MBP and iphone updated to the latest software was a multiday ordeal with all the huge updates (Lion, ios5, iTunes) over a slow 3G connection.

We could have gone to someplace with faster internet but what's the rush. We just enjoyed the time together.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:40 AM   #34
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You know the DVD or USB thing isn't even an issue anymore for me.. I've got a 2011 Mac Mini and the fresh install process is so much easier.. It's because there is a Recovery HD Volume, and I believe the download is done over the internet prior to the install..

Not sure If the Recovery HD has made its way onto older Mac Systems but if it did I don't think anyone would miss the DVD and USB process..
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:42 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pubwvj View Post
Wrong. A lot of people out in rural areas do not have broadband of a speed sufficient to make downloading OSX feasible. The world is not yet interconnected at high speeds. It is attitudes like yours that creates the digital divide. Reality check, please.
A Government survey reveals that 40 percent of United States residents have no broadband access and 30 percent have no Internet access at all.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:48 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignerOnMac View Post
A Government survey reveals that 40 percent of United States residents have no broadband access and 30 percent have no Internet access at all.
And how many of those people use mac os x?

I dont see why you should get mountain lion in first place if you dont have internet - i mean all new features are requiring you to have high speed internet, especially for software updates and icloud photostream. And i have never seen anyone complaining that apple dont release every single software updates via discs or usb drives for those who dont have broadband.

If you dont have broadband, you probably wont be making good use of the operating system anyway, so it is not the operating system of choice for you.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:50 AM   #37
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It always amazed me how people miss the blinding obvious here. If you don't have internet access, then how likely are you to have a mac? I think that's the point Apple is making, if you read the article, in that they found out of all the mac users hardly any opted for the USB option most likely because if you have a mac, you probably have internet.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 11:56 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pubwvj View Post
Wrong. A lot of people out in rural areas do not have broadband of a speed sufficient to make downloading OSX feasible. The world is not yet interconnected at high speeds. It is attitudes like yours that creates the digital divide. Reality check, please.
Wrong there are NOT a lot of people in your situation. My cousin who owns a dairy farm paid for Lion and I downloaded it for him, put the .dmg file on a DVD and I mailed it to him. Problem solved. You aren't exactly on a desert island.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignerOnMac View Post
A Government survey reveals that 40 percent of United States residents have no broadband access and 30 percent have no Internet access at all.
I'm willing to bet a very high percentage of these home have no computer Apple or otherwise.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:13 PM   #39
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my poor work computer :(

What about for companies/offices who use Macs that are not connected to the internet at all? (and can't be)

I use a Mac at work, but it will _never_ be connected to the internet and will never have App Store access. We haven't upgraded to Lion yet, and with this complication, I'm not sure if they will ever approve Mtn Lion.

I realize that Apple isn't as concerned with the Enterprise customers as the home users, but I would hope that there will be some method of purchasing the OS upgrades without having App Store access.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:26 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loki0wn View Post
At nearly 3 times the price, no wonder no one was interested in getting the USB stick. Sigh. I don't want to redownload an OS every time I need to format.
How about to just copy it on thumb drive or burn dmg ?
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:30 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignerOnMac View Post
A Government survey reveals that 40 percent of United States residents have no broadband access and 30 percent have no Internet access at all.
Source?

How many people surveyed?
Locations of those surveyed?
Do these 30/40% have computers?
Was the survey to individuals or households?
When was the survey conducted?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitaltara View Post
What about for companies/offices who use Macs that are not connected to the internet at all? (and can't be)

I use a Mac at work, but it will _never_ be connected to the internet and will never have App Store access. We haven't upgraded to Lion yet, and with this complication, I'm not sure if they will ever approve Mtn Lion.

I realize that Apple isn't as concerned with the Enterprise customers as the home users, but I would hope that there will be some method of purchasing the OS upgrades without having App Store access.
So you never update your software and can't use any software that requires activation? What do you even use the computer for?
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:32 PM   #42
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not only was it priced not to sell, but the very group who didn't get any install media with their shiny new mac couldn't actually use it.

40 quid and it would have worked on my 2011 MBA and mini? I'd have bought it no problem, it didnt so I worked around the issue by rolling my own ...Not thru any great desire to install an OS via the net, simply because the b*****ds left me with no other option.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:38 PM   #43
samcolson4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk11 View Post
No, they aren't. You're the unbelievably small minority here.
Hi, I'm from the UK.

Over here, our average downspeed is currently 0.5mbps. Yeah, that's the whole country.

Downloading Lion is a pain in the ass unless you live in a big city over here.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:40 PM   #44
digitaltara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
So you never update your software and can't use any software that requires activation? What do you even use the computer for?
Yes we update our software. In most cases we've generally been able to get offline updates that can either be pushed out over a network or installed individually. Otherwise, a completely new install has to be done if there's a new version where no in-place upgrade is available for download.

As for activation, most of the software that we use either uses a physical dongle, is activated via other methods (phone call, email a license file, etc.) or we have a site license for so it doesn't require additional actions.

I do computer forensics, so my work machines _never_ touch the internet. Ever.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:49 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignerOnMac View Post
A Government survey reveals that 40 percent of United States residents have no broadband access and 30 percent have no Internet access at all.
Ok, so out of that number only 15% are going to be Mac users. Add in the fact that, this being 2012, without Internet access they're very limited in what they can do so chances are they're only using their computer to type and print documents. If they're dialup users, they might send an occasional e-mail. I seriously doubt those are the consumers that are going to be interested in Mountain Lion.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:51 PM   #46
Rumple
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el-John-o View Post
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10454133-94.html

Actually there are still quite a few living in rural areas who cannot get affordable broadband. There is always sattelite, which is what I used to use when I lived in a Rural area. But it was over $1,200 to install, $75 a month for 512kbps connection, and limited to 5GB per month. Eventually 3G came available so that became our ISP. So it's still not a decent solution for downloading Lion / Mountain Lion. Though, admittedly, if I were in that situation, I'd probably go to somewhere with an access point. Nearest place was 30 minutes away but everything was 30 minutes away. No biggie. Just go get a coffee and download Lion.

I also think it's unfair to tell these people to 'move'. Don't knock it till you try it! It's awfully nice living in a place where you don't lock your doors and you can leave your keys in your ignition, where you don't have the sound of cars driving by... there's a lot of great reasons to live in a rural area. And there is more to life than internet!
You got that right there are a lot of people who have slow internet. Everyone who says just move is a child who doesn't have a mortgage or any bills. Or a snooty jerk.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 01:06 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
That's not an Apple issue. That's an ISP issue. Either because yours doesn't offer broadband or because the 'local' companies don't see the need to go out into the rural areas. Perhaps a kick in the pants to your local or state government will get a kick for the ISPs to rethink that notion
Here in North Carolina -- the 10th most populous state in the U.S. and home to the largest collection of tech firms outside of Silicon Valley, wireline broadband is available to approximately 57% of households.

When the state attempted to pressure telecom providers into ensuring that 90% of households would have access to wireline broadband by 2020, the telecom providers, instead, poured tons of money into changing the state's measuring criteria, so that it was no longer by household, but by ZIP code, meaning that if one home within a ZIP code could have wireline broadband, the entire ZIP code was considered to have broadband access.

When a number of municipalities began work to build citywide fiber networks after the major telecom players (TimeWarner, AT&T and Embarq -- Verizon pulled up stakes in 2010) refused to even bid for build-outs, the telecom companies spent 5 years and millions in lobbying to have the state pass a law that effectively bans municipal broadband, if it will provide the service at a lower rate/cost than for-profit industry. (Wilson, NC, for example, offers 100MBps symmetrical fiber to the home through its greenfire service.) As a result, North Carolina boasts 7 of the 10 highest broadband service fees in the nation. source


Quote:
Originally Posted by jdguggs10 View Post
Apple doesn't give a **** about the .1% of people like you who don't have real internet. And they shouldn't. Move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesith View Post
Source?

How many people surveyed?
Locations of those surveyed?
Do these 30/40% have computers?
Was the survey to individuals or households?
When was the survey conducted?[COLOR="#808080"]
According to the OECD, in 2011, 27.3% of American adults have broadband internet, placing the U.S. at number 15 out of the list of 34 developed nations surveyed for broadband access.

The FCC paints a rosier picture, claiming that, in 2010, 65% of U.S. households had broadband access, but when those statistics were collected, the FCC considered speeds in excess of 200KBps as broadband.

A July 2011 survey of broadband download speeds found the fastest state, Rhode Island, averaged 894KBps downloads, while the slowest state, Idaho, averaged 318KBps. All states were significantly slower than the FCC's target of a 4MBps average connection by 2025. source
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 01:13 PM   #48
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I don't mind it being a download, my big complaint is that they don't include a simple option "create bootable install drive" that can put it on a thumb drive, DVD, or other drive.

Sure you can do it yourself but Apple should make it dead simple for anyone to do. It's one thing to have to download four gigs to install an OS, but another to have to do that same download all over again if your mac crashes (or if you just want to install it on multiple macs!).
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 01:27 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzbo View Post
Just curious, but what do most people with work Macs do? Do you maintain a separate Apple ID for your work machine and then use a purchasing card to buy updates of OS X?

Or what exactly, I'm used to more the model where you buy installation media and licenses for the office and go from there, but with the tie to an Apple ID, I'm not sure what the best way to go is. More of a curious question than anything.
That's a good question.

I have a work Macbook Pro, and I just use my regular old Apple ID on it.
I bought Lion on my home computer, and then just installed it via the App Store on my work computer as well. I bet I probably could have taken it to IT and had them update the software, but I was purchasing it for my home computers anyway, so it was easy for me to just run the update on my work computer as well.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 02:03 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by samcolson4 View Post
Hi, I'm from the UK.

Over here, our average downspeed is currently 0.5mbps. Yeah, that's the whole country.

Downloading Lion is a pain in the ass unless you live in a big city over here.
+1

I think many here are forgetting Apple is an International company and needs to think about solutions for different markets around the world.

We don't have 'local' Apple stores in England.
All public hotspots have a capped speed limit of around 1mbps
I don't have friends that live in cities with fast internet, they are all in the same situation.

I have a reasonable connection speed, it took about a day to download lion, so it is do-able, but not practical. Apple TV is a waste of time here, I can't stream anything. So I have a boxee with my own content on it.

But what made me post was the ignorance of some people here.

It isn't a minority of people with poor broadband. A lot of people have poor broadband in England. And it's nothing to do with ISP's, its to do with the technology we have.

And moving is really stupid comment made by some people. My family are here, my life is here. If I move I'll have to get a new job, but I've been working 10 years locally to get into the job I wanted, I can't afford to give all this up just so I can have a small increase in broadband speed. I'm sure many people are in the same situation.

By all means comment about how the changes affect you, but think before making ignorant comments like 'move' to others as the solution.
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