Apple Shuns The New York Times in OS X Mountain Lion Coverage Over Foxconn Reporting

Kaibelf · Feb 17, 2012

Well....

robeddie said:
Just another little addition to the growing number of reasons why I'm really starting to dislike Apple these days.

I loved them more as the underdog, the alternative, the rebels. Now, as the biggest company in the world, they're starting to exhibits some of the bad traits of monster corporations.

I still love my macs, all with Snow Leopard - which looks like it will end up being the last 'adult' OS Apple ever released, now that they're dumbing down (and perhaps soon locking down) osX to be a clone of the 'kiddie' ios.

lifeinhd said:
If Apple really had nothing to hide and truly "care[d] about every worker in its supply chain," then they wouldn't need to do crap like this. They could let the facts speak for themselves.

Now that it's clear that this was all bull, do either of you feel silly? After all, you jumped at false information like animals, and made grandstanding high-horse statement about how much greater you are than those awful Apple people. Maybe if you dislike them so much, use something else and frequent another forum. Enjoy.

Noodlefarmer · Feb 17, 2012

Really?

iSee said:
I would expect (or at least hope) that the NY Times is utterly unphased by this.

Covering tech products like Apple's is ultimately fluff. It's fun to cover and reader enjoys it, but ultimately you're just one of thousands of publications helping to sell gadgets to people who like gadgets.

Covering working conditions in the developing world, on the other hand, is important stuff. If the big guys like the NY Times don't cover it, hardly anyone will know about it. (And in a democratic socierty, it's only when hidden under the veil of ignorance that inhumane practices can continue.)

The NYT has always had an agenda. And not always that pure. They were an apologist for Stalin in the past and covered up the Ukrainian genocide. I do not trust them. And anyone who does trust them because they were considered "the paper of record" is is being foolish. In the past, they could get away with it. In today's world, they can't.

8281 · Feb 17, 2012

Lesser Evets said:
Someone still reads the NYT?

No worry. It won't be around much longer by the graph of sales and readership.

Yeah, because all those news aggregate sites will have great coverage without legacy media outlets like the Times. And, yes, people do still read the NYT, and apparently the Times still has enough influence to upset Apple.

swingerofbirch · Feb 17, 2012

There are too many press releases warmed over and turned into news articles, anyhow.

Is Mountain Lion info really a "get" in the world of journalism? Personal computing is one aspect of society to report on, but the differences between Mountain Lion and other operating systems should barely be on the radar of people interested in the world at large.

8281 · Feb 17, 2012

Noodlefarmer said:
The NYT has always had an agenda. And not always that pure. They were an apologist for Stalin in the past and covered up the Ukrainian genocide. I do not trust them. And anyone who does trust them because they were considered "the paper of record" is is being foolish. In the past, they could get away with it. In today's world, they can't.

History aside, I always find it funny when people blame another organization for having an agenda. Everyone has an agenda...Apple has one, Google has one, and the Times has one. It just so happens that the Times' agenda includes reporting on things people don't want to hear, and so it upsets Apple's, or maybe it will upset another company's agenda. And I think it's pretty obvious that corporate agendas, like Apple's, are treated fairly well in this country and elsewhere.

We can't dismiss the whistleblower just because we don't like what they say...

MarkMS · Feb 17, 2012

barkomatic said:
I'm saddened by the opinion of many posters here that seem to believe that any negative story about Apple should be censored.

I don't think most posters on here want negative Apple news censored. Apple makes mistakes all the time that MacRumors and other sites talk about. Just look at the latest iMessage bug, did anyone ask to stop/censor that article? No. The problem with the NYT article is that they blamed Apple, and only Apple, for using Foxconn. They didn't blame ASRock, Amazon, HP, Dell, Sony, Sharp, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips, Asus, Acer, etc. Just like Gizmodo, the NYT doesn't deserve early access to Apple products for review. Of course, this is all moot since D. Pogue just tweeted he's had access to Mountain Lion for a week.

McMacuser · Feb 17, 2012

Spectrum auction

Off topic I know (sorry!) but with the move to iCloud, harmonization between iOS and OS X (per Mountain Lion), and the ongoing speculation about trying to disrupt the television industry...where does Apple come out on the recently announced FFC Spectrum Auctions? Will we see them using some of their enormous cash pile to bid on spectrum? Will they look for a strategic partner to do that through? Or is the risk of upsetting their relationships with the telcos too great?

wovel · Feb 17, 2012

lifeinhd said:
If Apple really had nothing to hide and truly "care[d] about every worker in its supply chain," then they wouldn't need to do crap like this. They could let the facts speak for themselves.

The NYT article was almost completely devoid of facts. It was loaded with anecdotes and overflowing with lies of omission.

TallGuy1970 · Feb 17, 2012

lifeinhd said:
If Apple really had nothing to hide and truly "care[d] about every worker in its supply chain," then they wouldn't need to do crap like this. They could let the facts speak for themselves.

You haven't dealt much with the media have you? It's my job, and I can tell you that no matter how positive the story, there are some reporters and media organizations that will do all they can to turn it negative.

Luckily, not all are like that, but some are.

wovel · Feb 17, 2012

MarkMS said:
I don't think most posters on here want negative Apple news censored. Apple makes mistakes all the time that MacRumors and other sites talk about. Just look at the latest iMessage bug, did anyone ask to stop/censor that article? No. The problem with the NYT article is that they blamed Apple, and only Apple, for using Foxconn. They didn't blame ASRock, Amazon, HP, Dell, Sony, Sharp, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips, Asus, Acer, etc. Just like Gizmodo, the NYT doesn't deserve early access to Apple products for review. Of course, this is all moot since D. Pogue just tweeted he's had access to Mountain Lion for a week.

They also made general Foxconn problems appear to be Apple specific problems. Some of the problems they identified where also problems for everyone but Apple. NYT has never let the truth get in the way of selling a few papers though.

----------

8281 said:
Yeah, because all those news aggregate sites will have great coverage without legacy media outlets like the Times. And, yes, people do still read the NYT, and apparently the Times still has enough influence to upset Apple.

The world would have been better servered if the NYT had folded 100 years ago. It has been an awful long time since NYT had any integrity.

iSee · Feb 17, 2012

David Pogue did report on Twitter yesterday that he had been "running Mac OS X Mountain Lion for a week", so it is unclear exactly why his report was not ready to go when the embargo lifted and why his article did not offer any mention of a pre-briefing session as a number of the articles from other publications did.

Maybe he didn't get the official briefing... and maybe he got Mountain Lion through a source rather than officially from Apple.

Given his history with Apple, David Pogue's got to have great contacts. He's been a great friend to Apple and a lot of people at Apple have to appriciate that.

If he did get ML unofficially, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was Phil Schiller himself who gave it to him--along with the same presentation as everyone else, except on the condition of anonymity. Why? It sends a message to the NY Times editorial board without pissing off one of Apple's most influential (and historically positive) reviewers.

Moof1904 · Feb 17, 2012

The NYTimes is a rag

Their history is complete with biased sensationalistic reporting. They are nauseatingly removed from anything resembling an unbiased free press. By remaining largely silent on labor conditions overseas forever and then blaming unfair labor on Apple and the iPad in the wake of Apple taking greater steps than any electronics manufacturer in history, they are doing nothing more than padding their pockets with sensationalistic drivel.

I have little sympathy for them that Apple responds in this way.

Like the joke says:

God calls the major news media representatives together and announces that the world will end the next day.

The Wall Street Journal headline reads "World Ending Tomorrow: Dow Drops 90%"
USA Today headline "World Ending Tomorrow: 99% Disapprove"
The NYTimes headline "World Ending Tomorrow: Women and Minorities Hit the Hardest"

raven13mb · Feb 17, 2012

Anyone who takes the NYT's as anything more than a tabloid newspaper and socialist propaganda machine is only fooling themselves.

Pontavignon · Feb 17, 2012

trainwrecka said:
I don't blame them. Write an unfair article (focus only on 1 company Foxconn works with because it will get more hits), twist facts (it was an Foxconn Xbox employee - not Apple), and this is what happens.

UPDATE:

What a fail. I think the article title needs to be changed.

Now that it turns out the New York Times was not shunned by Apple, perhaps the Washington Post will publish a retraction of its baseless conspiracy journalism, and this site can do another item to set the record straight.

As to the NYT coverage of Foxconn, Apple, as the number one corporation in the world, and the one that uses the most Foxconn workers, can and probably does expect to be singled out for coverage that ignores Foxconn use by Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc.

Apple will have to continue on and expand efforts to improve the working conditions of Foxconn workers, because that's the responsibility that comes with size and prominence. Perhaps not fair, but that's reality.

MarkMS · Feb 17, 2012

TallGuy1970 said:
You haven't dealt much with the media have you? It's my job, and I can tell you that no matter how positive the story, there are some reporters and media organizations that will do all they can to turn it negative.

Luckily, not all are like that, but some are.

So true. One only needs to look at the latest news about Apple and the FLA inspections at Foxconn. FLA says everything seems fine. Some media outlets lambast the FLA for either being corrupt or not doing their job because they informed Foxconn they were coming and Foxconn put on a show.

My favorite article title from The Verge. "Apple factory inspectors put positive spin on Foxconn conditions, but watchdogs are skeptical"

Basically anything Apple does from now on isn't good enough. No matter what.

Bubba Satori · Feb 17, 2012

Lesser Evets said:
Someone still reads the NYT?

No worry. It won't be around much longer by the graph of sales and readership.

Amazing and scary at the same time.
The Manchurian Candidate has nothing on cultists.
Only positive stories, comrades. Glorious Leader would be proud.
We march together into a bright iFuture.

gnasher729 · Feb 17, 2012

wovel said:
The NYT article was almost completely devoid of facts. It was loaded with anecdotes and overflowing with lies of omission.

For example: Apple's report said "We found 11 case were employees were hired while underage; in 7 of those cases they were not employed anymore, or were not underage anymore, when we found out". NYT says: "Apple suppliers use child labour".

barkomatic said:
I'm saddened by the opinion of many posters here that seem to believe that any negative story about Apple should be censored.

Who said that? Now what we would expect from a newspaper is accurate reporting, showing the facts, and all the facts, in a fair way, without putting any spin on it.

GenesisST · Feb 17, 2012

rnizlek said:
Are you kidding? The NYT is one of the finest English language papers in the world. Any suggestion they won't be around for much longer is nothing short of ludicrous.

Out of curiosity, what paper (or similar source of news) would you suggest rivals the Times? While there's plenty of other solid papers in terms of reporting, I have yet to find one that matches or rivals the quality of the writing in the Times.

And while the article on Foxconn may have taken some things out of context, I found that their previous article on why Apple can't/doesn't manufacture in the US incredibly enlightening.

Here we go... Another MacRumor meme... "I hate NYT, I've always said so bla bla bla bla bla".

iSee · Feb 17, 2012

Noodlefarmer said:
The NYT has always had an agenda. And not always that pure. They were an apologist for Stalin in the past and covered up the Ukrainian genocide. I do not trust them. And anyone who does trust them because they were considered "the paper of record" is is being foolish. In the past, they could get away with it. In today's world, they can't.

I know they have an agenda. Everyone does. I don't trust them either. However, if you want to use the f word, I can say this: you'd be foolish to shut out all sources of information with an agenda because that would mean shutting out everyone. If you can understand someone's agenda you can nevertheless discern useful and accurate information, whatever they say.

I know perfectly well that the NY Times is focusing on Apple in their stories on working conditions in Chinese electronics factories even though virtually all companies employ workers under the same conditions or worse. They are doing that because of the spotlight that Apple draws.

None of that changes the fact that it is an important story and that many of the practices are widespread. Also, personally I do care more about what Apple does than other gadget companies simply because I but more gadgets from Apple than I do from other companies.

Xendren · Feb 17, 2012

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

For those that are angered about the Foxconn story, this is worth looking at to put it in proper context.

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/timworstall/files/2012/01/appleboycott.png

deftdrummer · Feb 17, 2012

Sounds like China needs a labor union. That's what we did after WWII. China, not so much. Sure their infrastructure was obliterated but great time to start fresh right?

Don't get me wrong, I am sympathetic, but when Americans were forced with these kind of working conditions (I do realize they are not identical) we simply went on strike.

Tough situation it really is. But you'd be lying to yourself if you said it wasn't every major cellphone manufacturer contributing to this problem on a global scale. Not just Apple.

HelveticaRoman · Feb 17, 2012

The fanbois will applaud Apple's petulant spite and the more rational members will condemn Apple's petulant spite. This post, for example, will get at least 5 thumbs down.

Rot'nApple · Feb 17, 2012

Lesser Evets said:
Someone still reads the NYT?

No worry. It won't be around much longer by the graph of sales and readership.

They don't care about readership or sales. They are the Gospel, er, paper of record for the politicians in Washington DC that if they needed to be bailed out, I'm sure they would be!
/
/
/

HigherEd · Feb 17, 2012

Noodlefarmer said:
The NYT has always had an agenda. And not always that pure. They were an apologist for Stalin in the past and covered up the Ukrainian genocide. I do not trust them. And anyone who does trust them because they were considered "the paper of record" is is being foolish. In the past, they could get away with it. In today's world, they can't.

They were an "apologist for Stalin"? Nonsense. Look back at the Times' historical archive for the 1930s: you will see that the Times reported on the show trials, that it reported on the roundup and execution of Ukrainians by Soviets in 1934, that it published reports of starvation in the Ukraine in 1933. Its articles consistently referred to Stalin as "Dictator" - hardly a term of approbation. The paper wasn't perfect, and its reporters did not always understand the full extent of the famine in Ukraine -- but it's silly (at best) to suggest that the Times was an apologist. It distorts the historical record.

Drunken Master · Feb 17, 2012

iSee said:
I know they have an agenda. Everyone does. I don't trust them either. However, if you want to use the f word, I can say this: you'd be foolish to shut out all sources of information with an agenda because that would mean shutting out everyone. If you can understand someone's agenda you can nevertheless discern useful and accurate information, whatever they say.

I know perfectly well that the NY Times is focusing on Apple in their stories on working conditions in Chinese electronics factories even though virtually all companies employ workers under the same conditions or worse. They are doing that because of the spotlight that Apple draws.

None of that changes the fact that it is an important story and that many of the practices are widespread. Also, personally I do care more about what Apple does than other gadget companies simply because I but more gadgets from Apple than I do from other companies.

Finally, some sense being injected into the discussion.

Apple Shuns The New York Times in OS X Mountain Lion Coverage Over Foxconn Reporting

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